Pie'n'eal (Tony) a message to us all

[ROMANWKT]

When somebody Like Tony who had spent most of his life, over 40 years in a discipline, and then turns around to voice a warning and a danger of subtle manipulation of spiritual teachings, I will stand up and listen, he has my attention.



Dear Roman

Here is a copy of a letter I have just sent to Bill Ryan. It could of course all be wrong... but I don't feel so.

You have my permission to forward it to a third person if you see fit...but be aware that there is a name mentioned ( which I romanwkt removed, and Tony is only confirming my request to do so if I wished, which I do and did) which you may wish to delete before you send it on. 

Best wishes
Tony

PS it was good to chat last night.
--------------------------------------------------------------

To Bill Ryan and Avalon forum ( this line added by romanwkt)

I left Avalon to get space, and to understand what was going on, on the forum. I've now got it!
I apologise if you know this already, but I'm just trying to make it absolutely clear.

The forum has been infiltrated by either foolishness or evil. If one merely looks at the person(s) then they are foolish. If one looks at the effect, then it is evil.

We know that the object of TPTB is to misdirect consciousness, in every walk of life. In the spiritual 'they' have to be extremely subtle on this topic, so that people will not notice.

What I'm about to explain Sri Aurobino wrote about in 1935. If you look at the 'Neo-Advaita and MahaAti' thread I started that will give you a flavour of what is going on. A disciple of Ramana Maharshi called 'Poonji' concocted the idea of no path, no practice and no teacher in the mid 1900s.

This is how it works:

The Great Confidence Trick.

Ground, Path, Fruition.
The Ground is our essential nature.
The Path is our current confused state that does not recognise our essential nature.
The Fruition is the realisation that we are already the Ground.

So Fruition is the Enlightened state, where there is no Path, needed, no Practice needed, and no Teacher needed any more!

Being told that there is no Path, no Practice and no Teacher is a confidence trick.
This is because clearly, we are ignorant of our true nature, ie we're not enlightened yet.
It is still just an idea, which one can fixate upon and thus never achieve enlightenment.
It is a quick 'fix' confidence trick, with nowhere to go, as there is no where to go!

Let's take a closer look at Ground, Path, Fruition.
The ground is our essential nature.
The path is our confused present state that does not realise the essential nature of the ground.
The fruition is realising the we were the ground all the time.

The point is realising this!
Being told you are 'there' will not do.
'You' have to...r e a l i s e it!
The achievement of realisation comes from the precise 'practice' in our 'confused' state with the help of a 'teacher'. Then you know!

Now, that is the Great Confidence Trick!

You may not agree with me, and that is fine. That is your choice.
It's a great pity we didn't get to talk more when we met, about the subject of 'Oneness'.
I believe the PTB want a unified world - 'oneness'.
Oneness will never work...but unity in diversity will.
We are all unique, but we can work in harmony, appreciating others unique joy.
As oneness can never be achieved, it keeps people longing, and therefore they can be misdirected and controlled, by controllers.

The perpetrator of this 'non-system' on PA is ( I romanwkt removed the name), plus a few wannabes. I spoke to you about (name removed by romanwkt) when we met.
The mods can do nothing as they do not understand the subject: it is very subtle.
There are many NEW AGE gurus who also advocate this approach: I smell the Tavistock or another agency behind it...

Too many people are believing that they are one with the Universe (which is ultimately true), but the manifestation of that is not present yet.

I do not believe the coming 21st December 2012 will change anything, but we can spend our lives in harmony. Then it's a win win situation.

Kind regards,
Tony

PS. I feel like I'm the Consciousness police! We always have to remember that the PTB use naturally occurring events – and they also use events in the mind, through manipulating aspects such as our contrived nature of self-cherishing

[ulli]

All I can say I'm happy for Tony that he has realized that.
Now he can start his own Here and Now Village,
and defeat the evil by using the consciousness of himself and his good friends.
P.S.
I think the "evil" he sees is on the way out...
the important part is to walk your path looking up and ahead with one eye and keep the other eye on the ground in case of possible dog poop.

P.P.S. He'll be more effective if he joins the plain-clothed Consciousness Police Force.

[Tarka the Duck]

To clarify - this was not written as a message to the forum. It was sent in response to a phone call last night from Roman to Tony: Tony wrote down his conclusions and sent them in an email to Bill and Roman. The title of this thread was chosen by Roman...the title of Tony's email was The Great Confidence Trick.

Reaction to this will tell you everything you need to know about where a person is coming from... :p

It's more important to consider the message than the messenger.

Kathie

[dan i el]

Never a dull moment

[christian]

I think the "evil" he sees is on the way out...

I agree. It's pretty much a certainty, that TPTW are aware of Avalon and try to disrupt the peace here, but it ain't working that good and I don't see how it would work better for them in the future. I pity all those NWO puppets, who act slavishly to support a restrictive tyrannical system instead of figuring out and expressing their own infinite potential in a harmonious way with all their brothers and sisters.

[Seikou-Kishi]

"Unity in diversity"

I knew I liked Tony :D

[Anchor]

For ease of reference, the thread that pie'n'eal referred to in this letter is here

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?41887-Neo-Advaita-and-Maha-Ati

[crosby]

thank you romanwkt.
warmest regards, corson

[Daft Ada]

Hmmmm, but surely being aware of it means you need to be here to stand up to it like the rest of us, not run away. Although I follow no teachings and No religion I thought of Tony as a friend, his leaving makes me feel an emptiness. :sad:

[ulli]

Reaction to this will tell you everything you need to know about where a person is coming from... :p
Kathie

Kathie
ok, then, here is where I'm coming from.
Just in case there is a misunderstanding.

To be honest, I'm not sure if this was a swipe at my post.
Only you would know that.
Even if it was, I still have the choice to give your intent the benefit of the doubt.

Please be assured that I was quite sincere in what I said, and had not evil intent at all.
I can be irreverent at times. But so can most of us here at Avalon.

I admit that there may well be a group of people who have evil intent...
I suspected this long ago, as I myself received psychic attacks...
The closer my statements came to absolute truth ( as I understood absolute truth)
the stronger the attacks.
This happened especially during the Atticus days when the forum was being divided
by outside forces. Or inside forces?
What was it.
Those were the days when I used to think I was the consciousness police, believe it or not.


Whatever I post comes with the awareness of having lived for twenty years between 1983 and 2001
preaching the principle of "Unity in Diversity" as a member of the Baha'i community.
It was the main basis of all that Baha'is wanted to tell the world.
Here is an announcement of just one of thousands of Unity in Diversity events, organized by Baha'is since the early 20th century.

http://www.stalbertbahai.org/diversity.html

This is a very tricky principle to operate, an it only works when the inner self is in 100% balance.
The moment we see darkness outside of the self it is just a shadow of an aspect of the self that wants growth.
I never intended to take a swipe at pie'n'eal,
but his calling himself consciousness police was asking for it.
I used to do the same amongst Baha'is before I removed myself.
Let me assure you this morning it was done tongue in cheek, but years ago I was dead serious.
Going around with a measuring tape to challenge others about their level of consciousness.
But now I know better...namely all that I perceived in others was but a reflection of my own LOC. (level of consciousness)
So, let it be known, in my case there is no evil intent.

There were many clashes amongst the Baha'is.
Just as there are many clashes amongst Buddhists if one looks close enough.

It's in the clash of opinions that the spark of truth can be released. (Baha'i quote)

Some people I perceived had the diversity factor at 51 % or higher,
and some had the unity factor at 51 % or higher.
It shifts all the time.
The BIG unity agenda that is being filtered into society, as in global unity,
is particularly nasty since it leaves the poor people behind.
But then again, who should take care of them? The governments? The churches? Local communities? Their neighbors? Their families?
I go with the last three.
I hope you know where I'm coming from.
if not, just ask me.
Regards to Pie.
I think I know what he is going through. If he finds really cool answers I'd love to hear about them.

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Ulli

Thanks for the clarification! I was very interested to hear about the Unity and Diversity in the Bah'ai faith: I was fascinated by the Bah'ai when I was a teenager but haven't looked into it for many years. I shall do now ;)

Our paths haven't crossed much on PA, but from what I have read of your writings, I must say that I have much respect for your insight, wisdom and "wordsmithness" (something I obviously lack!!).

Oh, and believe me, Tony had his tongue very firmly in his cheek when he mentioned "Consciousness Police": as you must know, we Brits are masters at self-mockery.

Kathie

[Seikou-Kishi]

Oh, and believe me, Tony had his tongue very firmly in his cheek when he mentioned "Consciousness Police": as you must know, we Brits are masters at self-mockery.

Kathie

And god how much there is to mock! :D

[ulli]

Hello Ulli

Thanks for the clarification! I was very interested to hear about the Unity and Diversity in the Bah'ai faith: I was fascinated by the Bah'ai when I was a teenager but haven't looked into it for many years. I shall do now ;)

Our paths haven't crossed much on PA, but from what I have read of your writings, I must say that I have much respect for your insight, wisdom and "wordsmithness" (something I obviously lack!!).

Oh, and believe me, Tony had his tongue very firmly in his cheek when he mentioned "Consciousness Police": as you must know, we Brits are masters at self-mockery.

Kathie

I lived in Britain for years and when I plunged into third world community life I had to give up self mockery as well as sarcasm...
both are wasted as they go way above people's heads.
But the insights I gleaned about cultural differences and how much of our identities (false identities) are shaped by cultures were very valuable.
Gurdjieff's teachings were about finding the true essence, and let go of false personality.
The indigenous people I have met are more people of essence than many Westerners who have been on a spiritual path or discipline for years.

But simply by coming into a big city their essence was immediately covered by layers and layers of mass media personality building.
I was teaching jewelry making and other skills to a Guyami Indian who had begged us to let him live with us as he wanted to get his education past his 4th grade level.
So we found him a adult education school. Needless to say, in the end the city gobbled him up.
Not sure what happened to him. While he was with us he wanted to learn all the lyrics of Enrique Iglesias songs far more than the skills I was trying to teach him, like wood working or whatever I thought he might need one day.
But then who was I to think such things? Maybe becoming a famous singer was the real purpose of his life?

[Alex Laker]

What about unity in ADversity?

[Seikou-Kishi]

What about unity in ADversity?

When people are unified in adversity, it is as though an external pressure is pushing people together. When people come together of their own accord, it is as though they are pulling themselves towards each other. The direction is the same, but it's a matter of impetus and incentive.

[ulli]

What about unity in ADversity?

When people are unified in adversity, it is as though an external pressure is pushing people together. When people come together of their own accord, it is as though they are pulling themselves towards each other. The direction is the same, but it's a matter of impetus and incentive.

Unity is Advesity is fear driven.
Unity in Diversity is boredom driven.

Sorry, let me rephrase that
unity in Diversity comes from critical mass and is LOVE pulled.

[Alex Laker]

Yes, of course. But to talk about unity in diversity, and to then ununify yourself seems fairly hypocritical. Adversity is a form of diversity. Specifically a sentiment or force opposed to the general consensus (at least in this case). If adversity exists on the forum, it exists merely as more diversity. And so we unify our proversities against adversity, and in doing so we become a single desired type of diversity. It's all nonsense really. Does Avalon seek to only promote one overall message? Why can't we know who Tony thinks is the mole? In knowing this, we could either empathise (or not) a lot more with his position...

[Seikou-Kishi]

What about unity in ADversity?

When people are unified in adversity, it is as though an external pressure is pushing people together. When people come together of their own accord, it is as though they are pulling themselves towards each other. The direction is the same, but it's a matter of impetus and incentive.

Unity is Advesity is fear driven.
Unity in Diversity is boredom driven.

Sorry, let me rephrase that
unity in Diversity comes from critical mass and is LOVE pulled.

The first bit was great. It dipped a little in the middle but the rephrasing was spot on :D

[Little Ishta]

Oneness??? Now that really made me think. Maybe everyone has their own definition of oneness like everyone has their own definition of Love. In my opinion I have always thought oneness meant unity. To share a common ground. But still be unique. And to be in harmony with one another. To have respect for one another. We are all different. No doubt about it. It would be a very dull and boring world if we were all the same.

[ulli]

What about unity in ADversity?

When people are unified in adversity, it is as though an external pressure is pushing people together. When people come together of their own accord, it is as though they are pulling themselves towards each other. The direction is the same, but it's a matter of impetus and incentive.

Unity is Advesity is fear driven.
Unity in Diversity is boredom driven.

Sorry, let me rephrase that
unity in Diversity comes from critical mass and is LOVE pulled.

The first bit was great. It dipped a little in the middle but the rephrasing was spot on :D


It relates directly to how us older women feel about when we dipped in the middle rather than bulged.

Barbie after fifty:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EELyusyAwpM/ToYGrkn6_II/AAAAAAAAIsI/A3-dUiemAD4/s1600/barbie-at-50.jpg

[9eagle9]

No its working very well actually. What sort of peace are we talking about. Forced, artifical peace that breaks down in an instant or the sort the peace that provides strability in spite of chaos.

The sort of peace where one pretends nothing is wrong? Ignorance is blisss peace?

Peace isn't never having negative conditons, peace isn't love everything. Peace exists inspite of negative conditions and being cosmic hookers and pushers isn't required.

At some point humans went down the wrong path and lost touch with what we really are. It seems reasonable there is a path back. or a few paths back.

To have a tidal wave of philosophy that states don''t do anything, you're perfect, someone is going to save you, stay right where you are-- does not allow people to find their way back. When this is challenged --don't find your way back--and people get angry, abusive, and so adamant about their do nothing endoctrination and they are never compelled to walk the talk--one is knows something is up.

Avalan isn't a fortress of wise people and people brainswash themselves into thinking that Avalon is some sort of threat to the powers that be. Why would it be? The majority of the members are right where they powers that be want them to be.

Tony says Foolish/Evil,

I say Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant. Ignorance is peddled as if it virtue. So is foolishness.

I've watched people slander intellegience as if it were an evil.

An attack on wisdom. You see it all over the place.









I think the "evil" he sees is on the way out...

I agree. It's pretty much a certainty, that TPTW are aware of Avalon and try to disrupt the peace here, but it ain't working that good and I don't see how it would work better for them in the future. I pity all those NWO puppets, who act slavishly to support a restrictive tyrannical system instead of figuring out and expressing their own infinite potential in a harmonious way with all their brothers and sisters.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Oneness??? Now that really made me think. Maybe everyone has their own definition of oneness like everyone has their own definition of Love. In my opinion I have always thought oneness meant unity. To share a common ground. But still be unique. And to be in harmony with one another. To have respect for one another. We are all different. No doubt about it. It would be a very dull and boring world if we were all the same.

Oh, definitely! So many people fall out because this sect has to hate that sect and this colour has to hate that colour, but we all love our children and want the best for them; we all generally want to be happy. We share the more important things, the rest is just baubles.


At some point humans went down the wrong path and lost touch with what we really are. It seems reasonable there is a path back. or a few paths back.

To have a tidal wave of philosophy that states don''t do anything, you're perfect, someone is going to save you, stay right where you are-- does not allow people to find their way back. When this is challenged --don't find your way back--and people get angry, abusive, and so adamant about their do nothing endoctrination and they never compelled towalk the talk--one is knows something is up.

Oh I definitely agree with this! If you're walking down a country road and see a car coming the other way, you get out of its path before you lie back and think "ah, no action necessary"; if we've fallen into a valley we have to climb back up the mountainside before we can admire the view again, anything else is wishful thinking.

[toothpick]

Thanks ROMANKT.
Tony, great post, agree with you, I think, been up all night so I will try for a more deserving answer after some zzz.

[ulli]

No its working very well actually. What sort of peace are we talking about. Forced, artifical peace that breaks down in an instant or the sort the peace that provides strability in spite of chaos.

The sort of peace where one pretends nothing is wrong? Ignorance is blisss peace?

Peace isn't never having negative conditons, peace isn't love everything. Peace exists inspite of negative conditions and being cosmic hookers and pushers isn't required.

At some point humans went down the wrong path and lost touch with what we really are. It seems reasonable there is a path back. or a few paths back.

To have a tidal wave of philosophy that states don''t do anything, you're perfect, someone is going to save you, stay right where you are-- does not allow people to find their way back. When this is challenged --don't find your way back--and people get angry, abusive, and so adamant about their do nothing endoctrination and they are never compelled to walk the talk--one is knows something is up.

Avalan isn't a fortress of wise people and people brainswash themselves into thinking that Avalon is some sort of threat to the powers that be. Why would it be? The majority of the members are right where they powers that be want them to be.

Tony says Foolish/Evil,

I say Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant. Ignorance is peddled as if it virtue. So is foolishness.

I've watched people slander intellegience as if it were an evil.

An attack on wisdom. You see it all over the place.



I agree. Evil is ignorance.
But ignorant people are being born every minute. Who is doing the educating?

And if the ignorant were never allowed to attack wisdom
how on earth would the marginals ever find out who's side they are on?

[dan i el]

I was really hoping to talk with Tony again, part of the reason I came back to Avalon - exactly on the day he happens to retire. ooh the irony. if you are reading this thread Tony and I think you are, i'd like to let you know that I began practising lowering the breath after I read your glowing review of it and I am finding it to be a most wonderful "thing". If at all possible please dutifully consider picking the towel up once again, wiping the brow and returning ;) cheers anyway eitherway :)

[9eagle9]

The ignorant don't enough to know what wisdom is. They attack anything that challenges their ignorance. Ignorance IS bliss. Someone's feel good gets challenged and its wisdom that's attacked.

A better question is who is doing the enabling?

The wise don't educate unless the ignorant are willing to learn.

Not desiring ignorance is foolish.

Wisdom is a gift not an obligation and someone once something about throwing pearls before swine.

[christian]

It's pretty much a certainty, that TPTW are aware of Avalon and try to disrupt the peace here, but it ain't working that good.

No its working very well actually. What sort of peace are we talking about. Forced, artifical peace that breaks down in an instant or the sort the peace that provides strability in spite of chaos.

The sort of peace where one pretends nothing is wrong? Ignorance is blisss peace?

To what degree their plan exactly works is something one could write volumes about and I have absolutely no intention to do this, so subjectively, I don't see their plan working very well on me.

I think it's a long way, till there is a situation, where 'nothing is wrong', there seems to be always something to sort out and to work on. But after all, Avalon does provide a relatively peaceful platform for people to find things out and grow together, and to me that aspect is the most dominant of the forum. There's a great number of people here, who seem to be very stable and who are not ignorant about what's at stake and also all the stuff between the lines.

There are others who knowingly or unknowingly promote a rather immature agenda, of course there are, that's the times we are living in, but that doesn't give me an itch. In eternity everything bends towards enlightenment eventually. - I take care of my own self-responsibility and allow others to figure out stuff the way they choose, there's no rush ever.

[ulli]

I was really hoping to talk with Tony again, part of the reason I came back to Avalon - exactly on the day he happens to retire. ooh the irony. if you are reading this thread Tony and I think you are, i'd like to let you know that I began practicising lowering the breath after I read your glowing review of it and I am finding it to be a most wonderful "thing". If at all possible please dutifully consider picking the towel up once again, wiping the brow and returning ;) cheers anyway eitherway :)

I still get the "irony of life" scenario, but less so than I used to when I was more ignorant of my self.
There is a direct link between the intensity of one's wishes and the sabotaging of those wishes.

When this link is understood one can reduce the intensity of tne desire, without giving up the wish
just hold the intent in a more consistent way will produce desired results.
Anyway, Dan i el, I have a feeling that Tony will return.
I'm glad he was instrumental in bringing you back here.
Avalon is home, after all, even though some undesirables are occupying the entrance gate.

[kcbc2010]

"Unity in diversity"

I knew I liked Tony :D

My thoughts exactly. Yesterday, I found myself discussing the fact that I value being an unique individual. While it's good to be part of a group, the fact is that we shouldn't try to silence people who don't want to drink the "group consensus" Kool-Aid.

[ROMANWKT]

I feel some of you are off track in respect that the discipline of Buddhism and its manipulation here in Avalon is in question and nothing or no other faiths or belief system, or peoples choices, or making anybody to think alike or any such thing, please re-read the letter??

regards
roman

[WhiteFeather]

Roman, It would be an awesome idea if Tony started a Blog. I would tune in. Loved his insights. But we still have his awesome Threads and Posts here on Avalon. Keep us posted.

[ROMANWKT]

Roman, It would be an awesome idea if Tony started a Blog. I would tune in. Loved his insights. But we still have his awesome Threads and Posts here on Avalon. Keep us posted.

Absolutly WhiteFeather

It his choice, and he will appear when hes ready, if that's his wish, I am afraid I have no pull in this matter, hes his own man, we wait and see.

regards to you WhiteFeather

roman

[dan i el]

I still get the "irony of life" scenario, but less so than I used to when I was more ignorant of my self.
There is a direct link between the intensity of one's wishes and the sabotaging of those wishes.

When this link is understood one can reduce the intensity of tne desire, without giving up the wish
just hold the intent in a more consistent way will produce desired results.

Hi Ulli! :) Thanks! I have been thinking so too!



Anyway, Dan i el, I have a feeling that Tony will return.
I'm glad he was instrumental in bringing you back here.
Avalon is home, after all, even though some undesirables are occupying the entrance gate.

Tony wasn't the only one, Ulli ;)

[nomadguy]

[B]
I left Avalon to get space, and to understand what was going on, on the forum. I've now got it!
[/SIZE]

This comes to me as good advice, and a pretty good idea for anyone here on Avalon. To unplug is to again hear your own voice ~loudest.
Tony has shared great wisdom. It is my view that in doing so he has very much earned the time to be free of the mass mind conversation. Anyway I welcome him back should he choose to return.

[shijo]

I feel some of you are off track in respect that the discipline of Buddhism and its manipulation here in Avalon is in question and nothing or no other faiths or belief system, or peoples choices, or making anybody to think alike or any such thing, please re-read the letter??

regards
roman This manipulation has been going on in Buddhism for centuries.For example in thirteenth century Japan there was the promulgation of an erroneous doctrine called "Original Enlightenment", which stated simply said that were already enlightened so dont bother too much about practise and study.Many great minds turned it around like,Nichiren,Honen,etc,but it took time to get things back on track.People now see this doctrine as just totally wrong and non Buddhist. Regards Shijo.

[Jeffrey]

So what exactly is the harmonious aspect of Tony leaving? How does that fulfil his quip about unity in diversity? Foolishness, ignorance, and evil (whatever definition you like) has it's place in the ultimate scheme of the universe. That's easy to say, even to realize, but when that leads to indifference and complacency in perpective with a let-it-be type attitude that is the same foolishness we would so easily brush aside because we have it all figured out. To not contribute to or perpetuate that foolishness is the goal of a seeker. Push back with the same resilience or that force which you oppose will end up pushing you out of the ring.

Anger is a tool, use it righteously. Love for all is fine and dandy but the reality is that not everybody adheres to the same all-is-one philosophical paradigm. There are many selfish agendas at play—ignorant, and foolish. If that agenda is attempting to infringe on my free will it is my duty to oppose it, not only for me but for the sake of my neighbor. Walking away from evil/foolishness/ignorance is not clever, it maybe good for those who are open to learn, but for those whose live out of negativity and thrive on fear, it only gives them more wiggle room, more space to operate.

With humility,

Jeff

[another bob]

Dear Roman and All!

I have been involved in Buddhist practice and communities well over 4 decades now, and I will share with you that Tony's claims are mostly a paranoia-tinged rehash of an ongoing, one-sided dispute originating within a certain segment of the Dzogchen sect of Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism, of which Tony claims membership. They are a minority, but a loud one, it seems.You should know something about these adherents of that particular sect, who regard their particular approach to Buddhism as the highest and most complete. They will often, in fact, take great efforts to critique all other forms of Buddhism as inferior to theirs, some even claiming that the only way to full liberation is through their methods exclusively, and that the rest of Buddhism (even other Tibetan sects) only offer a partial realization at best. In that view, they are not unlike the Catholics, who are taught that their version of Christianity is the only true one, and only they will be getting into heaven, while the rest of the Christians will end up somewhere else (maybe Limbo).

Keep in mind that I am not criticizing Dzogchen itself, which I happen to feel is a superb system for those who are so inclined. I have myself practiced a version of Ati Yoga for quite some time, under the guidance and approval of an acknowledged master.

Of course, when it comes to other systems that may not even be Buddhist, such as Advaita, these aforementioned Vajrayana fundamentalists are quick to sneer and dismiss as pure delusion (even though that system has been around longer than Buddhism itself). Furthermore, if you examine the whole of Buddhist history, you will see that it has been frequently infected by dramatic doctrinal disputes that have even turned violent. Among competing Tibetan Buddhist sects, for example, you have recorded situations of monks warring and killing each other over competing interpretations of the Dharma, so it doesn't surprise me that Tony is finding devils lurking under the Avalon mattress, so to speak. That's part of his religious culture, into which he has been thoroughly indoctrinated.

Tony has a particular axe to grind against a spiritual movement that has been labelled "Neo-Advaita". Why? Well, it is largely based on the misconception that there is even such a collective school as such, and furthermore, that they all advocate "doing nothing", just pretending to be enlightened already. This of course is pure rubbish, although there are many immature folk throughout the various non-dual systems that rely on a purely intellectual approach (which also includes many Dzogchen advocates, btw). Whatever its limitations, the teachers who are recognized as Neo-Advaitin (such as Adyashanti, Tolle, Parsons, and Gangaji, to name a few) have helped countless individuals in their transition from a life of meaninglessness, stress, and futility, into one of taking the first steps towards a spirituality of wholeness and wisdom. I've never heard any of them claim that there is no effort required to walk this path, or that their version was the only one that had the final answers.

On the other hand, just for contrast, I'll quote from one of the most revered figures in Tibetan Buddhism , Longchenpa:

"Since all phenomena are timelessly free, nothing need be done to free them anew through realization. Even the thought that freedom comes about through direct introduction is deluded. One strives to free this essence from whatever binds it, but nothing need be done to free it, for unobstructed Awareness, which has never existed as anything whatsoever, does not entail any duality of something to be realized and someone to realize it. There is equalness because nothing is improved by realization or worsened by it's absence, so there is no need for any adventitious realization. And because there never has existed anything to realize- for the ultimate nature of phenomena is beyond ordinary consciousness- to speak of realization on even the relative level is nothing but deluded. What can be shown at this point is the transcendence of view and meditation, in which nothing need be done regarding realization, nothing need be directly introduced, and no state of meditation need be cultivated. So there is the expression 'it is irrelevant whether or not one has realization'."

Now, one could take this out of the context in which it was presented, and easily assume that what he is saying negates the need for some kind of preliminaries, just as one could do with the writings and statements of some so-called Neo-Advaitins, but we also know that Longchenpa spent agood deal of time and effort getting to that level of realization, just as Adyashanti, for example, spent years as a Zen practitioner before reaching his awakening.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, it comes down to pure envy on the part of these particular Dzogchen practitioners to whom I've alluded. After all, they have spent years doing all the various proscribed practices, thousands of prostrations and mantras and visualizations and so forth, and still not have attained the fruit, so of course they are going to look with suspicion and barely disguised envy at someone like Tolle, who claims to have awoken without all that fuss. In fact, I should probably coin a new term: "Awakening Envy". Furthermore, you'll never hear any vitriol against Dzogchen coming from Advaitins, which is why I called it a one-sided complaint.

I also would challenge Tony to do a little research before ignorantly putting down a seminal figure in modern spirituality like Poonjaji. One might start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._W._L._Poonja
David Godman, the noted authority on the life and teachings of Ramana Maharshi, wrote an excellent book on Poonjaji, called "Nothing Ever Happened". It's an excellent exposition on the man and his work. To even associate this fellow and his students with some connection to Tavistock et al is sheer paranoid bunk and dangerously misleading sectarian BS.

I could go on and on with this topic, but I feel I've at least added a bit of balance to the matter. I also realize that this will likely piss off some of Tony's loyal followers, but so be it -- I'm not here to win a popularity contest, but someone needs to set the record straight.

:yo:

[Ba-ba-Ra]

[B]
I left Avalon to get space, and to understand what was going on, on the forum. I've now got it!
[/SIZE]

Two thoughts come to me:
1) You got it??? Buddhism = non-attachment = not holding on.

2) In my world when things are going wrong, the first place to look is at myself. How was I presenting myself? Was I really trying to teach or was I trying to be admired for my knowledge. The Spirit looks for brothers, the ego looks for allies. Which of these two was I cultivating? Perhaps my purpose was correct but my application needs some adjustment. I believe we always need to look at what we might have done to bring something into our lives. Then, we make the necessary adjustments and MOVE ON.

Let's all hold hands in our uniqueness and move on, shall we?

[greybeard]

I was going to say nothing as I do appreciate Tony as a person however.
Tony on his own admission had not heard of Advaita till very recently then warns all of the dangers of Neo Advaita whatever that is.
Advaita takes much study to get the essence of it.
Its subtle
It existed long before Budhhism.
Its an ancient well respected tradition
The paradox is that it seems that there is nothing to do----- but and its a big BUT be your true Self.
Its not an external search its internal.
There is the suggestion that seeking denies that fact that you are already complete-- already --- I am.

I am, is one with God so in actuality there is/was no individual to seek a separate God in the first place.
That is the essence that takes time to understand.
Only God is--- thats what you are.

Jesus said--- Be still and know that I am God
The Lilly in the field etc.

To be honest another bob explains it much better than I

So even though I respect Tony I have to say that in this case he has not investigated long enough or deep enough.

Chris
By coincidence as I wrote I was listening to Gregg Braden the Science of Miracles.
He goes into great detail a to why you must pray as though you already have what you want.
If you ask for something you are affirming lack.
So thats partly why Advaita says you are already your true self there is nothing to do except remove the obstacles.
The main obstacle is the ego.

[9eagle9]

I'm not here to win a popularity contest,

For my part I didn't much fear you would.

[another bob]

So thats partly why Advaita says you are already your true self there is nothing to do except remove the obstacles.
The main obstacle is the ego.

Yes, and the main method is Atma Vichara, or inquiry, which is a 24/7 deep plunge into the question "Who Am I?".

http://luthar.com/self-inquiry-or-atma-vichara/


And on another item that Tony mis-represented, Sri Aurobindo wrote about the Intermediate Zone, with absolutely no reference whatsoever to Advaita. Rather, he was speaking about certain aspirants who were trapped in a kind of spiritual holding pattern. I have the letter in my files, if any which to see it.

:yo:

[ROMANWKT]

Both of you Dear Tony and Dear Bob, I firstly want to tell you that I am so lucky that I am not a Buddhist, and that I follow no one, but have the greatest respect for both of you, that you both will never truly know, I want to tell you both that I love you, and also love all the work that you are both doing here, I have to admire both of you for the sacrifices you both made in this oldest discipline called Buddhism. You both are an envy to many people here including myself for a tremendous achievement that you now both posses. The descriptive words that you both use in your discipline are beyond me to fully understand the relevance to the knowledge you both impact here, we 3 are at an age of seriousness, that we have had a glimpse of what is and what is not, and I know we are trying to impart this glimpse, each in our own way, but both of you have excelled yourselves through your particular disciplines, which is refined beyond my understanding if I may, but we move on, and as we all know, nothing stands still.

So before I get in my car, and move myself out of this thread permanently, I would like to leave both of you wonderful guys with a simple view to my philosophy. Life to me has always been in a shape of a big v I had never tried to aspire to go up the left leg of the v, and also had never aspired to up the right leg of the v, I was always at home and a happy bunny right in the middle, the crutch hehehe.

So after that all you envious parties go to my thread and get the knowledgeable and get laid with education hehe.

I see no problems you guys, I am happy just being dumb.

Love and my most profound respect for you both

roman

[another bob]

Yes, Dear Roman, I have always found it a bit preposterous, but mostly just really sad, that in a world of such turmoil, there should continue such petty and worthless bickering about silly doctrinal positions among those who claim to have some stake in raising the level of global consciousness. After all, if we as some sort of representation of an alternative community cannot get our own act in order, what chance is there to make any positive impact on the greater macrocosm? The unfortunate sniping we see here only gladdens the hearts of those who are committed to seeing us fail.

There is talking the talk, and then there's walking the walk -- what a pity the two so rarely coincide!

May all of us awaken to our essential unity!

:yo:

[Heartsong]

Ulli,
Thanks for bringing up the Bahai teachings. I was thinking along the same lines. In many ways I miss the Baha's.

[Lettherebelight]

This is a little long, but it is such a wonderful viewpoint from Tecumseh, a great hero...I quote it often, so forgive me for the repetition, as I share it once again...

"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life.

Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people.
Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend,
even a stranger, when in a lonely place.
Show respect to all people and grovel to none.

When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself.

Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools
and robs the spirit of its vision.

When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled
with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep
and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way.
Sing your death song and die like a hero going home."

Chief Tecumseh (Crouching Tiger), Shawnee Nation 1768-1813

I am sure there are many here at Avalon who appreciate Pineal (Tony) sharing his Truth with us.

[greybeard]

I was going to say nothing as I do appreciate Tony as a person however.
Tony on his own admission had not heard of Advaita till very recently then warns all of the dangers of Neo Advaita whatever that is.
Advaita takes much study to get the essence of it.
Its subtle
It existed long before Budhhism.
Its an ancient well respected tradition
The paradox is that it seems that there is nothing to do----- but and its a big BUT be your true Self.
Its not an external search its internal.
There is the suggestion that seeking denies that fact that you are already complete-- already --- I am.

I am, is one with God so in actuality there is/was no individual to seek a separate God in the first place.
That is the essence that takes time to understand.
Only God is--- thats what you are.

Jesus said--- Be still and know that I am God
The Lilly in the field etc.

To be honest another bob explains it much better than I

So even though I respect Tony I have to say that in this case he has not investigated long enough or deep enough.

Chris
By coincidence as I wrote I was listening to Gregg Braden the Science of Miracles.
He goes into great detail a to why you must pray as though you already have what you want.
If you ask for something you are affirming lack.
So thats partly why Advaita says you are already your true self there is nothing to do except remove the obstacles.
The main obstacle is the ego.

Kathie has asked me to confirm that Tony is familiar with Advaita. (Traditional)
Happy to do so
For my part I did not know that Neo Advaita is an accepted name which I had never heard before.
Hope that clarifies things.
Chris

[Snowbird]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)

[another bob]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)

Hiya Snow!

You know, the irony of this is -- all religions, all so-called spiritual paths and methods, are mere human creations. Once on the other side, up a few notches in terms of awareness, you find that all religions and philosophy systems are nothing but children's toys, and the squabling over which is "better" is instantly recognized as the faux-drama of kiddies in a sandbox.

:yo:

[araucaria]

Unity in Diversity was chosen as a motto for Europe after a competition among schools in the late 1990s. The protocol involved a preliminary study of existing mottoes, and clearly the US motto ‘E pluribus unum’ was uppermost in everyone’s mind. You then had to find a motto translatable into 27(?) languages including Latin. The French runner-up was Tous unis, tous uniques! which was more interesting but involved an untranslatable play on words.


This paradox whereby our difference is what unites us is completely denied by the notion of oneness, whereby what unites us is our sameness, i.e. zombie-like interchangeability.

[Rantaak]

There are people here who post material which distracts us from our true nature.

I feel like a large part of the new age movement was about making people forget that we humans are embryonic gods, waiting to be birthed from microcosm to macrocosm. Project Avalon is kind of like Alcoholics Anonymous for spiritual people. We become afraid of our own abilities and so we look to a stream of communal consciousness. It is very easy to become hypnotized into the ascension phenomena, which basically serves to enforce the limitation of belief in that we are not already there.

I will miss Tony's posting (assuming he stops posting through his followers) but I'm sure he's spending his newly gained time out in the aether, fighting evil.

[ulli]

Unity in Diversity was chosen as a motto for Europe after a competition among schools in the late 1990s. The protocol involved a preliminary study of existing mottoes, and clearly the US motto ‘E pluribus unum’ was uppermost in everyone’s mind. You then had to find a motto translatable into 27(?) languages including Latin. The French runner-up was Tous unis, tous uniques! which was more interesting but involved an untranslatable play on words.


This paradox whereby our difference is what unites us is completely denied by the notion of oneness, whereby what unites us is our sameness, i.e. zombie-like interchangeability.

Tous unis, tous unique....ah, don't we just love the French paradox?
You have a point there, about our zombie-like interchangeability.
My inner zombie relates well to your inner zombie.

Seriously though, what really unites us is our mortality,
and the best use of religious practice is ultimately how any group agrees on how to dispose of their dead.

Ethics? Can be taught in school.
Enlightenment? Happens when you least expect it.
Creating myths? Leave that to us grandmothers.

[greybeard]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)

Hiya Snow!

You know, the irony of this is -- all religions, all so-called spiritual paths and methods, are mere human creations. Once on the other side, up a few notches in terms of awareness, you find that all religions and philosophy systems are nothing but children's toys, and the squabling over which is "better" is instantly recognized as the faux-drama of kiddies in a sandbox.

:yo:

Ramesh Balsekar whom I enjoyed reading said "Be clear on this--- Every teaching is a concept the moment it is spoken of."

Chris

[Snowbird]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)

Hiya Snow!

You know, the irony of this is -- all religions, all so-called spiritual paths and methods, are mere human creations. Once on the other side, up a few notches in terms of awareness, you find that all religions and philosophy systems are nothing but children's toys, and the squabling over which is "better" is instantly recognized as the faux-drama of kiddies in a sandbox.

:yo:

I cannot and will not argue with you, another bob. I personally have deep beliefs, not in religions however. That being said, it is perfectly human to believe in and feel deeply about something within ones life. In fact, I think that this is healthy. But that belief, IMO, must also be allowed reign to exist in and flow with the state-of-being in which we live. We live in duality...big time. This is a give and take environment, whether or not we like it. :thumb:

[Sidney]

Here is my take on all of this........Putting aside all spiritual believe systems, religions and the likes, what it boils down to is that....

1. We are all here because we have been lied to in the mainstream, and we are craving truth and answers.
2. We have all been mistreated and injured by society and its thoughtless co-habitants.
3. We have come here to "unite" with like minded souls, because of the universal law of attraction. Like attracts Like.

Ok, so now that we are here, some evil energy sneaks up on us, pretending to be our friend, and makes our soul feel bad, for whatever reason. And it is painful. More so for some than for maybe someone else, put it is painful just the same. As the pattern repeats itself, the pain accumulates. And we in turn, are broken. (temporarily anyway).

What I have observed in this thread, is that we have established a problem here at avalon, and are acknowledging this fact, but even in this thread, is this undertone of self righteousness. (my theory(information) is more right than yours) etc. . Can we not just continue sharing information, without nit-picking what someone else has shared. Its not the message here, its the Delivery.

If you send someone a chocolate cake, in a box with cat poop smeared on it, it ruins the cake.

So, now that I have spoken my two cents, Tony, please come back, so all the good people of Avalon can have our friend back?????

BTW- after I have written most of this I have noticed that I am sort of repeating others observations, sorry about that I kind of put the cart before the horse here.

TONY TONY TONY TONY TONY TONY- (tony, thats the crowd of your hundreds of fans, chanting for you to come back):grouphug:

[another bob]

I personally have deep beliefs, not in religions however. That being said, it is perfectly human to believe in and feel deeply about something within ones life. In fact, I think that this is healthy. But that belief, IMO, must also be allowed reign to exist in and flow with the state-of-being in which we live. We live in duality...big time. This is a give and take environment, whether or not we like it.[/COLOR][/B] :thumb:

If I didn't feel similarly, I wouldn't have spent most of my life refining my practice in the furnace of daily life tests. At the same time, I have come to see the drawbacks of belief, especially when not based on direct experience.



http://i39.tinypic.com/w9cp5h.jpg


:yo:

[another bob]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)

Hiya Snow!

You know, the irony of this is -- all religions, all so-called spiritual paths and methods, are mere human creations. Once on the other side, up a few notches in terms of awareness, you find that all religions and philosophy systems are nothing but children's toys, and the squabling over which is "better" is instantly recognized as the faux-drama of kiddies in a sandbox.

:yo:

Ramesh Balsekar whom I enjoyed reading said "Be clear on this--- Every teaching is a concept the moment it is spoken of."

Chris


So with the teachings in all the sutras: They are intended for the consideration and guidance of the discriminating minds of all people, but they are not the Truth itself, which can only be self-realized within one's deepest consciousness. Mahamati, you and all the Bodhisattvas must seek for this inner self-realization of Noble Wisdom, and not be captivated by word-teaching.

~Lankavatara Sutra


:yo:

[Snowbird]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)

Hiya Snow!

You know, the irony of this is -- all religions, all so-called spiritual paths and methods, are mere human creations. Once on the other side, up a few notches in terms of awareness, you find that all religions and philosophy systems are nothing but children's toys, and the squabling over which is "better" is instantly recognized as the faux-drama of kiddies in a sandbox.

:yo:

Ramesh Balsekar whom I enjoyed reading said "Be clear on this--- Every teaching is a concept the moment it is spoken of."

Chris

Does this then indicate that Every teaching becomes an abstract notion the moment it is spoken of.? As most notable concepts are taught by rote repetition either from the pulpit or in the classroom.

[greybeard]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)

Hiya Snow!

You know, the irony of this is -- all religions, all so-called spiritual paths and methods, are mere human creations. Once on the other side, up a few notches in terms of awareness, you find that all religions and philosophy systems are nothing but children's toys, and the squabling over which is "better" is instantly recognized as the faux-drama of kiddies in a sandbox.

:yo:

Ramesh Balsekar whom I enjoyed reading said "Be clear on this--- Every teaching is a concept the moment it is spoken of."

Chris

Does this then indicate that Every teaching becomes an abstract notion the moment it is spoken of.? As most notable concepts are taught by rote repetition either from the pulpit or in the classroom.

Its like describing the taste of an orange to some one who has never even seen one.
That does not invalidate it as long as its seen as a personal perception.
Obviously 2+2 =4 but much description is personal.
We can agree that grass is green but the word green grass is not the same as the actual green grass.
We can just do as best we can.

Chris

[Gone002]

:confused:I don't understand why people turn away from Christian/ religion and say that it is a form of control, but then turn around and start to practice another form of religion/control that is not inherently western/mainstream just because is sounds easier.

[astrid]

i thought this fitted in well here...

Does my realization help others?

Ramana Maharshi : Yes, and it is the best help that you can possibly render to others. But really there are no others to be helped.
For the realized being sees only the Self, just as the goldsmith sees only the gold while valuing it in various jewels made of gold.
When you identify yourself with the body, name and form are there. But when you transcend the body-consciousness, the others also disappear.
The realized one does not see the world as different from himself.

[dan i el]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhAMgVFKokk Slavov Zizek from 17:00 on has something interesting to say which I trust you would find directly pertinent to the discussion

[Debra]

I've read the letter and the posts and the other posts and still cannot fathom why someone, anyone, would make a decision to leave a forum or life for that matter, based upon something as fundamental as duality. We are here, in a state of duality and in a state of massive galactic upheaval. Of course people who want to disrupt will come on to this forum, any forum or in life itself...solely to disrupt. We live in this daily. We eat it, breath it and sleep it. It is everywhere.

So, what is the real problem here? :)


Feelings .. and why? Because feelings are connected to ideas.

[Solstyse]

Good lord, Dear Tony, if you are going to leave the forum, then leave the forum. Otherwise come back and post your own post like a man! This posting through other people is in and of itself suspicious. These actions are silly and unbecoming. Like a wise man once said "either **** or get off the pot"
This is ridiculous already.

[service2others]

Strip everything away. Your Education, your spirituality, your family background, beliefs and experiences. What is your sum total? I would go with your heart's INTENT. What is your intent? My gut feeling is that Tony's intentions by all accounts are honourable. If I come across a frequency that doesn't resonate with me I move on. Move on and do no harm. Each entity will travel it's own path. I know what i know, and I learn at my own pace. That's enough for me. But most of us here already know that right? I've not been here long, and maybe I will move on too. Compassion, Love, Wisdom. My intent is to try and get better at these things. I'm here to learn stuff. I think that is why we are ALL here. Life down here isn't perfect, if it were, we wouldn’t learn a dam thing. We are still in kindergarten. Let's not throw sand in each others' face. It will always end in tears.
Peace.

[Solstyse]

Strip everything away. Your Education, your spirituality, your family background, beliefs and experiences. What is your sum total? I would go with your heart's INTENT. What is your intent? My gut feeling is that Tony's intentions by all accounts are honourable. If I come across a frequency that doesn't resonate with me I move on. Move on and do no harm. Each entity will travel it's own path. I know what i know, and I learn at my own pace. That's enough for me. But most of us here already know that right? I've not been here long, and maybe I will move on too. Compassion, Love, Wisdom. My intent is to try and get better at these things. I'm here to learn stuff. I think that is why we are ALL here. Life down here isn't perfect, if it were, we wouldn’t learn a dam thing. We are still in kindergarten. Let's not throw sand in each others' face. It will always end in tears.
Peace.

I think the key part to your statement is move on. He obviously hasn't.

[Ultima Thule]

Good lord, Dear Tony, if you are going to leave the forum, then leave the forum. Otherwise come back and post your own post like a man! This posting through other people is in and of itself suspicious. These actions are silly and unbecoming. Like a wise man once said "either **** or get off the pot"
This is ridiculous already.

Either you so extremely advanced to say such a thing about Tony and his actions that I myself cannot possibly fathom or you are as you say "behind you" i.e. behind him and you don´t fathom that, as he is not visible in your horizon at all. I haven´t seen anything ridiculous in this scenario until your post right here. I wonder if there could be an anti-thanks button.

I consider Tony a Wizard - he is never late nor early, he arrives(and leaves) precisely when he means to. In chess I would know the pieces by name and how they move, whereas Tony knows the game. Please consider a bit more humble attitude. Scratch the word bit.

UT

[Solstyse]

You don't see anything ridiculous with anyone posting how they are leaving the forums, then keep having people make posts for him?
Don't worry about the un-thanks, the lack of thanks I get is enough proof for me that I am hitting some nerves.
At first i supported Tony, I thought he was one of the few people who would actually leave a forum after saying they were. And I was going to miss him. I enjoyed his posts more than most and me and him have had some good conversations.
But 10 pages of a goodbye thread, and then this. Sorry common sense says STOP.
And, did I actually say anything about Tony himself, or just his actions?

I like you analogy though. If that is the case, i am behind everyone.

[Ultima Thule]

And, did I actually say anything about Tony himself, or just his actions?


I don´t know, did you? "Be a man" might be considered a candidate ;-)
I know that doesn´t bother Tony a bit though.
UT

[Solstyse]

And, did I actually say anything about Tony himself, or just his actions?


I don´t know, did you? "Be a man" might be considered a candidate ;-)
I know that doesn´t bother Tony a bit though.
UT

Well lets not take little snits out of my quote and run with it.

Otherwise come back and post your own post like a man!

So I never actually said "be a man" that is just what you read. Reading comprehension is apparently not mandatory on this forum :)

I was not trying to say that Tony wasn't a man. Just that the actions of having someone else speak for him is childish. If he wants to post then post!

And I hope my comments shouldn't bother him, he left the forum right? He isn't supposed to be reading my post anyways.

I do like how you avoided all my other points though.

You can respond but I can't justify posting on this thread anymore, otherwise i am being hypocritical. You can PM me if you wish to, but I don't think you do.

[music]

I'm not here to win a popularity contest,

For my part I didn't much fear you would.

Bob's pearls are wasted on you

[spiritwind]

Well, other than Solstyse getting his/her knickers in a twist I think this has been a very interesting thread that has stimulated some valuable discussion. You can learn alot by seeing how people react to things. I see the same problems here and on the Camelot forum (the only 2 I have ever belonged to) as I do in the larger world. It's a community of questioning people with somewhat similar interests but widely divergent personalities, belief systems, backgrounds etc. I've also noted that high intellect does not necessarily equate to common sense and good communication skills, let alone guarantee a non-confrontational approach from those who participate here (I'm no expert on Buddhism but know enough to know that it's at least partly about practicing non-violence). No matter how you slice it up I still think one of the main problems in this world is people don't know how to get along, compromise, resolve conflicts in a manner suitable of a supposedly evolved species.

[Cilka]

For ease of reference, the thread that pie'n'eal referred to in this letter is here

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?41887-Neo-Advaita-and-Maha-Ati

All this fuss is in regards to the above thread? Are you serious? I have no comment.