Sweden moving to cashless society

[truth will win out]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57399610/sweden-moving-towards-cashless-economy/

[YoungSoul]

I live here in Stockholm and i rarely use any cash, i never have any on me mainly because its a hassle to count and scour through your pockets everytime you need to buy something. Backside is that every transaction is traceable, which gives you 0 private life.

[mosquito]

Thank God I live in China !!!!

Cash is still king here, people can pay large sums of money into the bank, and withdraw large sums without being treated like criminals.

[aranuk]

Cash means freedom for gods sake. When cash disappears so does freedom. If money becomes totally digital we are slaves. TPTW want digital money and all humans chipped. They will be able to know where you are, know what your bank balance is, know who you paid, know who paid you, know your medical records, know your criminal record, your parking fines etc etc. Get a grip. Don't give up cash, don't give up your freedom. Maripose I agree with you. Digital money is the thin edge of the wedge to keep the human race under their COMPLETE control.
Get wise kids. It's our only saviour.

Stan

[Debra]

This is not for the customers´security, first and foremost, that is for sure. More control by both the banks and the government over every aspect of our lives. Sure, it is useful and costs nothing to use the card to draw down your own money to make a purchase, at least that is less of a hassle than carrying money. But as you say YoungSoul: O private life.

Also, what if you lose your card? Or it gets stolen? You have to wait for a couple of weeks until you get a new one to resume living?

[InCiDeR]

Some whistleblower (can't remember who!) said one year ago:

"Sweden is the biggest and greatest social experiment on earth"

I believe him...

[aranuk]

Zebra it's much worse than that. There is absolutely no end to it. When that happens and God forbid, it is finished. They will be able to chip you, if you refuse they will not give you a card or something. WE are slaves then. Once we are chipped we are finished. Chipped means they will know how many times you have an orgasm, go to the toilet. Our freedom has gone. Forget about waiting for a couple of weeks to get your card back once it is lost, you will be chipped again with another kind of chip that tells them what you are thinking.

Stan

[M6*]

My thoughts exactly! M6*

[D-Day]

To me, not having a monetary system OF ANY KIND would be the first step towards enabling humanity to once-and-for-all experience what it TRULY means to be free.
Having a resource-based system where fairness, equality and respect (for humainty and the environment) are the key factors in determining allocation and distribution of resources would be the ideal way forward (at the very least it would be a good place to start).
We have the ability NOW to create such a world, a world of abundance where nobody wants for anything, where ALL people have access to the basic necessitites of life like food, water, shelter, energy, education, health care, transportation etc.
The reason this is not part of our current reality is because of the greedy, self-righteous basards sitting at the top of existing power structure who horde and monopolize all the worlds resources for their own monetary gain, while deceiveiving the rest of us into believing we live in a world of scarcity.
A world where the majority of us are forced to work ourselves into the ground just to earn enough MONEY to survive (as slaves essentially) in the society THEY designed and created for us.
Yes that's right, we're alredy slaves!
We don't need chips to achieve that social status because we're allready there... don't even try to fool yourself into thinking we're not.
The only difference between us and the slaves of the past is that the slaves of the past didn't have to pay for their own living expenses.
Modern day slaves (us) not only have to work like slaves but we also have to pay for all our own living expenses as well.
Then on top of that we pay interest for the things that we need (want) but can't afford to buy outright.
And who does that interest/MONEY go to?
Yeah, that's right... it goes to the rich, greedy fat cats sitting at the top of the control structure.
What a friggin' joke we've allowed ourselves to become!
Anyways, instead of worrying about the impending doom of nano-chips etc, we'd do much better to concern ourselves with figuring out a way to depose the greedy leeches who are dominating, exploiting, manipulating, deceiving and distrespecting (the rest of) humanity and this planet.
We have the power and numbers to take back our freedom now, and we could do it tomorrow if we REALLY wanted to.
If only we believed in ourselves enough to actually start standing up for what we ALL know is right and just... instead of sitting back in apathy waiting for someone (or something) else to come along and take care of everything for us.
I really wish humanity, as a collective, would wake up, get wise, get off its knees, RISE UP, and take back control of of its own destiny!
One day, maybe... I live in constant hope (and apathy ;)).

[Seikou-Kishi]

Cash means freedom for gods sake. When cash disappears so does freedom. If money becomes totally digital we are slaves.

Stan

Cash means freedom?... hmmm, not from where I'm standing.

I think you're reading Stan's comment out of context; if you look, after he has said that 'cash means freedom', he also says that digital money means we are slaves. If I were to give my interpretation of what he means, I would say that he means while physical money exists, we have a degree of control over it but once it becomes completely computerised, our money (which would have no independent existence the way paper and metal money do) can be edited, deleted or blocked without any defence on our part.

Has this person stepped out of line? Delete his money and shut him up. If you have notes in your hands and coins in your pocket, they can't suddenly invalidate that (though they try to do it in general terms with inflation).

That would be my interpretation of what Stan said; rather than cash meaning freedom, I would say he meant that physically existent cash at least has more freedom to it than computerised, virtual cash.

[D-Day]

Cash means freedom for gods sake. When cash disappears so does freedom. If money becomes totally digital we are slaves.

Stan

Cash means freedom?... hmmm, not from where I'm standing.

I think you're reading Stan's comment out of context; if you look, after he has said that 'cash means freedom', he also says that digital money means we are slaves. If I were to give my interpretation of what he means, I would say that he means while physical money exists, we have a degree of control over it but once it becomes completely computerised, our money (which would have no independent existence the way paper and metal money do) can be edited, deleted or blocked without any defence on our part.

Has this person stepped out of line? Delete his money and shut him up. If you have notes in your hands and coins in your pocket, they can't suddenly invalidate that (though they try to do it in general terms with inflation).

That would be my interpretation of what Stan said; rather than cash meaning freedom, I would say he meant that physically existent cash at least has more freedom to it than computerised, virtual cash.

The intention of my post wasn't to have a go at Stan.
I mainly just used the opening statements if his post as a launching pad of sorts.
Looking back at my post now though I can see why it's been interpreted as you've stated.. whic wasn't what I wanted at all.
Just so Stan knows, I meant him no ill will... my apologies :)
I'll edit my previous post now to take Stan's quote out of it, as it really doesn't need to be there.

[Seikou-Kishi]

The intention of my post wasn't to have a go at Stan.
I mainly just used the opening statements if his post as a launching pad of sorts.
Looking back at my post now though I can see why it's been interpreted as you've stated.. whic wasn't what I wanted at all.
Just so Stan knows, I meant him no ill will... my apologies :)
I'll edit my previous post now to take Stan's quote out of it, as it really doesn't need to be there.

No no I'm sorry I didn't think you were having a go at him at all. I'm really sorry if I implied that I thought that, I just thought I saw a disconnect between intended meaning and interpreted meaning :-)

[D-Day]

The intention of my post wasn't to have a go at Stan.
I mainly just used the opening statements if his post as a launching pad of sorts.
Looking back at my post now though I can see why it's been interpreted as you've stated.. whic wasn't what I wanted at all.
Just so Stan knows, I meant him no ill will... my apologies :)
I'll edit my previous post now to take Stan's quote out of it, as it really doesn't need to be there.

No no I'm sorry I didn't think you were having a go at him at all. I'm really sorry if I implied that I thought that, I just thought I saw a disconnect between intended meaning and interpreted meaning :-)

Don't sweat it ;)
So long as I'm not offending anybody, I'm happy.
I think my post is better now that I removed the reference to Stan's post anyway.
I wrote it between phone calls at work and clearly didn't pay enough attention to what he had said in his post.
Either way, it's all good :)

[Mad Hatter]

Gee all of a sudden my card won't work more than 5km from my place... the oh so convenient path to total lockdown...

And the smart thinkers on this forum suggest the solution is???

[G.Deluca]

in italy now,we can't pay with cash if the price is over 1000 € ,in 10 years maybe we will have a cashless system too

[muxfolder]

Some whistleblower (can't remember who!) said one year ago:

"Sweden is the biggest and greatest social experiment on earth"

I believe him...

I've heard the same about Finland too.:) So now that Sweden is going to be cahsless it pretty much means we're going to do the same. It seems always be the case that whatever they do in USA or Sweden it's what's gonna happen here too sooner or later.

[Mulder]

As David Icke said (I'm paraphrasing here): if your card is declined, you can still buy food, etc. with cash in your pocket. With no cash, you're in deep trouble if they turn off your card.
Now this is from me: in a cashless society YOU WILL BE CONTROLLED - you will be rationed. You will only get starvation rations - if you feel like a steak dinner now, you can buy it. But in a cashless society you will eventually have no choices, all you can buy will be dictated. This is so you can't feed people whose chip has been switched off! This is the real nightmare that will be slowly brought in & most people won't see it coming.

[xbusymom]

Also, what if you lose your card? Or it gets stolen? You have to wait for a couple of weeks until you get a new one to resume living?

Good point!

[jorr lundstrom]

I use cash only. I have no card. About Sweden being maybe the
greatest social experiment on earth, Im afraid I have to agree.
Of course the experiment will ultimately fail. And when the s##t
hit the fan here we will see the old visions repressed by christianity
for 1000 years surface again. There are mighty powers starting
to move in the abyss. LOL

All is well


Jorr

[xbusymom]

To me, not having a monetary system OF ANY KIND would be the first step towards enabling humanity to once-and-for-all experience what it TRULY means to be free.
Having a resource-based system where fairness, equality and respect (for humainty and the environment) are the key factors in determining allocation and distribution of resources would be the ideal way forward (at the very least it would be a good place to start).
We have the ability NOW to create such a world, a world of abundance where nobody wants for anything, where ALL people have access to the basic necessitites of life like food, water, shelter, energy, education, health care, transportation etc.
The reason this is not part of our current reality is because of the greedy, self-righteous basards sitting at the top of existing power structure who horde and monopolize all the worlds resources for their own monetary gain, while deceiveiving the rest of us into believing we live in a world of scarcity.
A world where the majority of us are forced to work ourselves into the ground just to earn enough MONEY to survive (as slaves essentially) in the society THEY designed and created for us.
Yes that's right, we're alredy slaves!
We don't need chips to achieve that social status because we're allready there... don't even try to fool yourself into thinking we're not.
The only difference between us and the slaves of the past is that the slaves of the past didn't have to pay for their own living expenses.
Modern day slaves (us) not only have to work like slaves but we also have to pay for all our own living expenses as well.
Then on top of that we pay interest for the things that we need (want) but can't afford to buy outright.
And who does that interest/MONEY go to?
Yeah, that's right... it goes to the rich, greedy fat cats sitting at the top of the control structure.
What a friggin' joke we've allowed ourselves to become!
Anyways, instead of worrying about the impending doom of nano-chips etc, we'd do much better to concern ourselves with figuring out a way to depose the greedy leeches who are dominating, exploiting, manipulating, deceiving and distrespecting (the rest of) humanity and this planet.
We have the power and numbers to take back our freedom now, and we could do it tomorrow if we REALLY wanted to.
If only we believed in ourselves enough to actually start standing up for what we ALL know is right and just... instead of sitting back in apathy waiting for someone (or something) else to come along and take care of everything for us.
I really wish humanity, as a collective, would wake up, get wise, get off its knees, RISE UP, and take back control of of its own destiny!
One day, maybe... I live in constant hope (and apathy ;)).

another good point!! we CAN turn their plans for a cashless (and controlled) society on its -@Rs$% and quietly work on becoming a moneyless society (and we don't even have to RISE UP in protest). I may sound like a broken record, but I am going to say it again in case someone hasn't heard of the reason behind the timebanks and charity movement...

timebanks and volunteer charity organizations are not subject to taxation or the DOLLAR valuation... the key is in the intent and motive of anything donated to another person... it is NOT a legal contract of payment (trade/barter/etc.) for services/items purchased....

[Carmody]

The problem is that you will always need to have a method of carrying around more than a given amount of 'value' in order to exchange 'value'.

As soon as you have more than a few people, and have hunger, food, protection, housing, etc...as soon as you have those things in an environment of many people as individuals, you will need this method of value variability... and transaction.

This is inescapable.

Money is an issue yes.

However, WHO and WHAT controls money has always been the core issue at hand.

Basically, human social and cultural structure, freedom, -and-... 'cashless societies'..are not compatible. At all.

the only two things I know of that are cashless, are prison, and slavery.

[Heather2017]

...the only two things I know of that are cashless, are prison, and slavery.

Just a different form of currency in each case, Carmody. :)

[Carmody]

...the only two things I know of that are cashless, are prison, and slavery.

Just a different form of currency in each case, Carmody. :)

It's not a different form of currency, it's a different form of existing. Highly contracted, and limited. All doorways, all pathways locked. No reason for existing. A tool. A thing, to be, in totality, for someone or something else.


A cashless society with what is in charge now, still being in charge, is in actuality, slavery. A box with walls that are slightly further away than real slavery and real prison. But not by much.

My last life was one of slavery, in the specific. I remember it all too well.

[Solstyse]

A true cashless society would be the barter system.
I.E. I will fix your plumbing for 3 chickens.
Let me help you build your house for 3 bundles of home grown potatoes.

Making paper or coin money into plastic, isn't really a cashless society, its just a different form of the same thing.

[Paranormal]

To me, not having a monetary system OF ANY KIND would be the first step towards enabling humanity to once-and-for-all experience what it TRULY means to be free.
.

another good point!! we CAN turn their plans for a cashless (and controlled) society on its -@Rs$% and quietly work on becoming a moneyless society (and we don't even have to RISE UP in protest). I may sound like a broken record, but I am going to say it again in case someone hasn't heard of the reason behind the timebanks and charity movement...

timebanks and volunteer charity organizations are not subject to taxation or the DOLLAR valuation... the key is in the intent and motive of anything donated to another person... it is NOT a legal contract of payment (trade/barter/etc.) for services/items purchased....

I'm not sure if it would be possible to turn their cashless society around. Even if you are living self-sufficiently on your land - how will you pay your taxes? How will you pay for emergency dental or healthcare? I guarantee we won't find all trades-people to live with us like dentists, builders, etc. and even if we could they'd have to buy materials, tools, etc. We have to work on preventing a cashless society by opting out and not complying - I doubt enough people would join in as they are like prisoners on the train to Auschwitz - not knowing what's ahead.

[NeverMind]

And the smart thinkers on this forum suggest the solution is???

I don't know if it's a solution, but it is an inevitable and obvious step towards preventing it: use cash, relentlessly and multitudinously.

[risveglio]

And the smart thinkers on this forum suggest the solution is???

I don't know if it's a solution, but it is an inevitable and obvious step towards preventing it: use cash, relentlessly and multitudinously.

Not much of a smart thinker but hard money?

[NeverMind]

And the smart thinkers on this forum suggest the solution is???

I don't know if it's a solution, but it is an inevitable and obvious step towards preventing it: use cash, relentlessly and multitudinously.

Not much of a smart thinker but hard money?

Obviously, that's what I meant.

[risveglio]

And the smart thinkers on this forum suggest the solution is???

I don't know if it's a solution, but it is an inevitable and obvious step towards preventing it: use cash, relentlessly and multitudinously.

Not much of a smart thinker but hard money?

Obviously, that's what I meant.

Sorry, head is not on straight today.

[aranuk]

To me, not having a monetary system OF ANY KIND would be the first step towards enabling humanity to once-and-for-all experience what it TRULY means to be free.
Having a resource-based system where fairness, equality and respect (for humainty and the environment) are the key factors in determining allocation and distribution of resources would be the ideal way forward (at the very least it would be a good place to start).
We have the ability NOW to create such a world, a world of abundance where nobody wants for anything, where ALL people have access to the basic necessitites of life like food, water, shelter, energy, education, health care, transportation etc.
The reason this is not part of our current reality is because of the greedy, self-righteous basards sitting at the top of existing power structure who horde and monopolize all the worlds resources for their own monetary gain, while deceiveiving the rest of us into believing we live in a world of scarcity.
A world where the majority of us are forced to work ourselves into the ground just to earn enough MONEY to survive (as slaves essentially) in the society THEY designed and created for us.
Yes that's right, we're alredy slaves!
We don't need chips to achieve that social status because we're allready there... don't even try to fool yourself into thinking we're not.
The only difference between us and the slaves of the past is that the slaves of the past didn't have to pay for their own living expenses.
Modern day slaves (us) not only have to work like slaves but we also have to pay for all our own living expenses as well.
Then on top of that we pay interest for the things that we need (want) but can't afford to buy outright.
And who does that interest/MONEY go to?
Yeah, that's right... it goes to the rich, greedy fat cats sitting at the top of the control structure.
What a friggin' joke we've allowed ourselves to become!
Anyways, instead of worrying about the impending doom of nano-chips etc, we'd do much better to concern ourselves with figuring out a way to depose the greedy leeches who are dominating, exploiting, manipulating, deceiving and distrespecting (the rest of) humanity and this planet.
We have the power and numbers to take back our freedom now, and we could do it tomorrow if we REALLY wanted to.
If only we believed in ourselves enough to actually start standing up for what we ALL know is right and just... instead of sitting back in apathy waiting for someone (or something) else to come along and take care of everything for us.
I really wish humanity, as a collective, would wake up, get wise, get off its knees, RISE UP, and take back control of of its own destiny!
One day, maybe... I live in constant hope (and apathy ;)).

Hi D-Day I agree with absolutely everything you said in your post EXCEPT your first sentence. That's fair is it not? There is no way I could prove me correct or you false. Just a feeling that's all.
We more or less agree.

Stan

[aranuk]

Cash means freedom for gods sake. When cash disappears so does freedom. If money becomes totally digital we are slaves.

Stan

Cash means freedom?... hmmm, not from where I'm standing.

I think you're reading Stan's comment out of context; if you look, after he has said that 'cash means freedom', he also says that digital money means we are slaves. If I were to give my interpretation of what he means, I would say that he means while physical money exists, we have a degree of control over it but once it becomes completely computerised, our money (which would have no independent existence the way paper and metal money do) can be edited, deleted or blocked without any defence on our part.

Has this person stepped out of line? Delete his money and shut him up. If you have notes in your hands and coins in your pocket, they can't suddenly invalidate that (though they try to do it in general terms with inflation).

That would be my interpretation of what Stan said; rather than cash meaning freedom, I would say he meant that physically existent cash at least has more freedom to it than computerised, virtual cash.

Hi Olly you understood what I meant. I couldn't have expanded better than you did. I wasn't making a pitch to glorify money, I was inferring that digital monetery system will shackle us once and for all.

Stan

[jorr lundstrom]

Well, Ill borrow a picture. If we imagine that we put all commodities,
food, water, shelter, clothes and other things humans
want in the right pan on a scale like those below, and in
the left pan we are used to put money or sth corresponding to balance
the scale.
I sugggest that wot shoud be put in the left pan is human needs, true
needs. If there is a need, there are some who has surplus of wot an
other human needs. No need for money or anything that can be
hijacked.
Of course this is a vision and can be put into practise right now among
those in our near surroundings.


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/balansvg.jpg

All is well


Jorr

[Ernie Nemeth]

Just as an anecdote:
I was in a hurry a few weeks ago.
I needed a $100 dollar bill broken into smaller units.
I went to my bank where they all know me.
I hurried up to the teller and said I needed this 100 broken up. She said please put your card in the reader and we'll deposit the 100 then you can withdraw twenties or whatever. I said, but I'm in a hurry, just break the hundred, thanks. She refused. I said that they cannot refuse as this is legal tender in Canada. She said how could they know it was not counterfeit and who to blame for it otherwise. I said that is not my problem and that if they found the matter of counterfeit money so debilitating maybe they should try another line of work. She was unfazed.
I gave up and used my card...

[xbusymom]

I gave up and used my card...

you caved in too soon... I would have let go of the schedule and asked to see a supervisor... taken it to the final round... politely insisted on good service from my bank.

anyway thats what I would have done.

[YoungSoul]

Seems like im the only one doing it wrong.

[xbusymom]

Seems like im the only one doing it wrong.

Not necessarily... only you can decide if you need to be bolder or if you are doing exactly what you are meant to be doing and are ready for.!!

[Maia Gabrial]

This is just one step away from making EVERYTHING free! I know TPTW won't like the idea because all their power and control would be gone.
Hey, I like it!