The unraveling of a great Secret

[Sebastion]

It's all a grand energy game....

Just as the mirage of a city is not the city it reflects, the essence of you is not your body nor any of the ideas you have about it. The real mystery begins to unravel when you understand that it is you as conscious awareness and energy that gives "life" to all of your ideas energetically. The great mystery arises when you identify solely with an idea(s) and not the energy that gives "life" to an idea.

That is the great secret hidden within a million flowery words. You are the source and energy which gives life to all ideas and ideas in form. It is as simple and powerful as that! I dare say that when this is understood within you, you are well on your way to all enlightenment. Put on your energetic glasses and see for yourself. You will see that all things exist as "ideas" and "ideas in form".

The deeper you explore this understanding the more you will see that it is one of the founding principles upon which and gives rise to, "life" to all creation, levels and dimensionality.

Again, you are the energy which allows/gives/animates "ideas". You are not the idea itself. The initial error begins when your identity becomes wrapped up in an idea or group of ideas and not the source from which the idea was given birth!

This is the "energetic treasure chest" upon which you sit. You may open it up and see what's inside at your own discretion.

[9eagle9]

Yes! Throw away all the bs books on manifestation and do that! too simple and so free.

[Sebastion]

I believe that if you are serious about really "waking up" this concept is one major way of doing just that!

[Belle]

Great post, Sebastion.

This truth opened up for me years ago as I read "Three Magic Words" by Uell S. Anderson. When I read that I am not my body, nor my role(s) in life, nor my job...when all of that is set aside, what is left is 'I am', my life changed. I am. Simple. Powerful.

[Sebastion]

It is interesting to note here that we are "corded in" to the physical body by the astral body by what is called the "silver cord". Personally I know this to be true as I have seen it myself on rare occasion. Carrying this idea further, it would seem more than reasonable to conclude that "cording in" energetically, may very well be a normal and natural ability of our energetic make up.

To further illustrate the point, cording in is the same as "resonating with", "buying into" "in alignment or one with", etc. It's all the same idea. Taking this even a step farther, it could be noted that if you are reading this post, you are actually cording in energetically to see if there is anything of interest!

That is how subtle yet powerful cording in can be. It all depends on how aware you are of what you are actually doing and why you are doing it, from an energy perspective.

[ljwheat]

Dose sound create form, or is vibration the corner stone of 3D, yes to both. the secret-- life -- source -- DNA-- is the code activated by light?

Light from Our Sun is the broad castor radiating all the code’s of color in light--beyond visual range-- beyond any possible knowing how this works in our 3D solar system, in turn gets its life codes from the milky way core sun holding it all together.

Trillions of core suns with out number combine to co create this awareness including the spec of awareness we call 3D life.

Focus - expanding the full spectrum of light combined that we all hold with in-- is a doing, Not a knowing-- just as our Sun radiates its light to us unconditionally, it’s a allowing of our light to radiate out from us unconditionally with out thought or thinking.

Just cast your bread on the water’s. or in this case - cast your full color spectrum from that light source from with in that we are.

No think-- Do." SHINE."

With out thought as the Sun dose, mimi sun that you are.

Learn to shine not speak.

Speaking stops the presses of shining as source.

It’s a BEING the" light " not a doing.

You don’t have to do anything if you know you are the light. "Simply shine," shine, shine, shine, just like our father Sun shine's on all things in your awareness and radiance. No thought, no thinking, no speaking.

With out explanation shine on all things we come in contact with.

Thoughts and thinking is the VEIL. " Shine " is Source behind the thinking (VEIL.)

"Be brilliant" :cool:(Shine)----- not intelligent:crazy: (VEIL)
shine, shine, shine.:cool: this little light of mine. stop hidding it under a bushel -(VEIL)

[gooty64]

That is the great secret hidden within a million flowery words. You are the source and energy which gives life to all ideas and ideas in form. It is as simple and powerful as that!

BIG extra thanks Sebastion!


shine, shine, shine. this little light of mine. stop hidding it under a bushel

jw, I love this too!

[leavesoftrees]

Great post, Sebastion.

This truth opened up for me years ago as I read "Three Magic Words" by Uell S. Anderson. When I read that I am not my body, nor my role(s) in life, nor my job...when all of that is set aside, what is left is 'I am', my life changed. I am. Simple. Powerful.

And when you say I AM, it is the same I AM, when ever anyone else says it. There is only one I AM

[Sebastion]

I wish to thank you all thus far for your responses and input! It is my wish to impart some of the knowledge that has been gathered through years of direct experience learning. There is absolutely zero doubt within me that all of us are sitting on a treasure chest and always have been. Most are unaware or only dimly suspect this is true. The first major clue is in the original post. My intent here is to show you how to access it yourself by doing it your way. You already are the power and the source. This thread will hopefully reveal how and why this is true. You never ever needed anything outside of yourself energetically.

I had a major "wake up" call about a week and a half ago and have been able to understand, connect many dots as a result. Just love it when the light bulb comes on! lol I wish to thank 9eagle9 because she helped trigger it in one of her posts. She mentioned the term "cording in" which was a term I understood from way back, but forgot about.

[bluestflame]

yes many still identify with the physical form as who they are , yet not as the extension of it

[9eagle9]

In the Balance we find the universe which is composed of density and light, cording determines how we shape our fate, our timelines even. I have found there is balance in the world, what may be percieved as an authentic Justice that moves through us when we allow it, bringing back the way they should be. As long as we are on this physical earth we will have density. The balance comes from not allowing the dense to weight what is lighter. Not light in the new agey sense but the less density.

There is a reason for the term apron strings. Its refers a maternal bond. They can be healthy and nuturing or a parent can be parasitical. Internal cording in is when we identify with a belief that may not be true about us. And that sort of cord in will determine if we are accessing a true source, our true power or are we simply buying into a thoughtform, a feeble imitation of our authentic point of power. Our spark of animation.

If I cord in to a person in a natural way I move my source energy to them. Who I really AM. If were a more deviant mind I could upload some unhealthy programs or system of beliefs into them that would align with conscious beliefs, controlling one's psyche.

If someone corded into me in a healthy natural way that cord would buoy me that energy would just disperse and go where it needed, and be reciprocated back to you. By managing my thoughts very carefully one can effect nearly miraculous changes for themselves. If it were grasping and full of dense emotional attachments an energy fall off would be apparent. Physical pain even. You're fed on.

Cording in because its natural allows us a certain insight into someone's psyche, what some folks call psychic before the New age turned that into something its not. Quite deliberately there are forces in the world that are terrified we will know our true authenticity our true power. They cannot access their own. One is not going to notice naturally occuring cords, perhaps just the symptoms of them. No more notice them until we become conscioulsy aware of them the same way we suddenly just became aware of our heartbeat and breath. One notices immediately the presence of corrupted cords, they too have symptoms. They are not easy to overlook, and we are not as private as we like to think we are.

[Orph]

Although I've heard the term "cords" talked about on a few occasions, I'm still a little vague on the concept of what they are. :help:

[Delight]

[QUOTE=Sebastion;452463]It's all a grand energy game....
...... You are the source and energy which gives life to all ideas and ideas in form. It is as simple and powerful as that! I dare say that when this is understood within you, you are well on your way to all enlightenment. Put on your energetic glasses and see for yourself. You will see that all things exist as "ideas" and "ideas in form". [QUOTE]

We cannot manifest our intentions easily when we are starving energetically. The novel the Celestine Prophecy did a pretty good job of showing how we take energy from each other if not connected to Source. But I am pretty sure we agree about where our energy goes (even if unconsciously). So to become energy masters and experience life in a way that is abundant, we must take conscious responsibility for the way we agree to transact energy exchange.

An example is being "helpful" which comes not with flow through from Source but an agenda of needing to be needed and giving oneself away in return for validation of worth. I have seen this in my former work as a nurse. Nurses burn out from helpfulness and in the US anyway often over eat from starvation. It is not universal of course for nurses but the whole set up of that "profession" attracts people struggling with self esteem and Source/self empowerment. That is just my opinion. I guess I should say that is my opinion about myself in that role. Once I started developing some self esteem and sense of Source/self empowerment, I was not able to be in the role.

My understanding of "cording" comes initially from Carolyn Myss who talks about "energy investments". My introduction to her was way back in 1993 when I attended a workshop. I was blown away by seeing that energy that is wisely invested brings a return of energy with interest. Energy that is misplaced creates energy debt and may lead to illness.

Here is a link to a video that also has other videos explaining her sense at that time of energy anatomy: The Energetics of Healing offers a bold new vision of the human body and the unseen obstacles to healing". Carolyn Myss has said the question for her was not why people become ill, but why people fail to heal. I know that spiritual masters have chosen illness. I know that it is said they take on others' karma but honestly, I do not understand the use of manifesting an illness when one can draw on Source? It has made me wonder if spiritual mastery is less about responsibility to others than has been claimed. Maybe "spiritual" mastery is more about cutting all cords and demonstrating oneself what may be accomplished in body? Just my question. Sorry if that sounds heretical.

UaVIuy-ZMiY

[Sebastion]

Hello Orph:

Simple concept really as I see it. Imagine a small hose extending from you as an energetic source to plug in to "something" energetically. Or plug in your lamp cord to a wall outlet to get electricity to the light bulb. Same concept. The only difference energetically is that you can give energy or take energy, depending on your intent.





Although I've heard the term "cords" talked about on a few occasions, I'm still a little vague on the concept of what they are. :help:

[Sebastion]

I wish to thank you Delight and 9eagle9 for your important input to this thread. As ALL of you are showing, this is an incredibly powerful subject which concerns all of us. There is nothing quite as delicious as knowledge that directly helps you to understand yourself and others in the process!





[QUOTE=Sebastion;452463]It's all a grand energy game....
...... You are the source and energy which gives life to all ideas and ideas in form. It is as simple and powerful as that! I dare say that when this is understood within you, you are well on your way to all enlightenment. Put on your energetic glasses and see for yourself. You will see that all things exist as "ideas" and "ideas in form". [QUOTE]

We cannot manifest our intentions easily when we are starving energetically. The novel the Celestine Prophecy did a pretty good job of showing how we take energy from each other if not connected to Source. But I am pretty sure we agree about where our energy goes (even if unconsciously). So to become energy masters and experience life in a way that is abundant, we must take conscious responsibility for the way we agree to transact energy exchange.

An example is being "helpful" which comes not with flow through from Source but an agenda of needing to be needed and giving oneself away in return for validation of worth. I have seen this in my former work as a nurse. Nurses burn out from helpfulness and in the US anyway often over eat from starvation. It is not universal of course for nurses but the whole set up of that "profession" attracts people struggling with self esteem and Source/self empowerment. That is just my opinion. I guess I should say that is my opinion about myself in that role. Once I started developing some self esteem and sense of Source/self empowerment, I was not able to be in the role.

My understanding of "cording" comes initially from Carolyn Myss who talks about "energy investments". My introduction to her was way back in 1993 when I attended a workshop. I was blown away by seeing that energy that is wisely invested brings a return of energy with interest. Energy that is misplaced creates energy debt and may lead to illness.

Here is a link to a video that also has other videos explaining her sense at that time of energy anatomy: The Energetics of Healing offers a bold new vision of the human body and the unseen obstacles to healing". Carolyn Myss has said the question for her was not why people become ill, but why people fail to heal. I know that spiritual masters have chosen illness. I know that it is said they take on others' karma but honestly, I do not understand the use of manifesting an illness when one can draw on Source? It has made me wonder if spiritual mastery is less about responsibility to others than has been claimed. Maybe "spiritual" mastery is more about cutting all cords and demonstrating oneself what may be accomplished in body? Just my question. Sorry if that sounds heretical.

UaVIuy-ZMiY

[9eagle9]

It has made me wonder if spiritual mastery is less about responsibility to others than has been claimed. Maybe "spiritual" mastery is more about cutting all cords and demonstrating oneself what may be accomplished in body? Just my question. Sorry if that sounds heretical.


It is. Not heretical at all just the way we operate when we are authentically ourselves. that does not mean we are nice all the time or holy or special. We just allow who we are to be who we are. Most people who progress spiritually cut all cords, withdraw into solitude for a while, and suspend all beliefs (and their attachments or cords) before emerging out a the other end of things. Not to say we take a permanent vacation from everyone but everything but the discernment with whom we interact with, why and why others want to interact with us, becomes more apparent. There is no need there, but just something that occurs naturally. Giving to people is no longer a hardship or really any investment required whatsoever, it just occurs. So there is no sense of depletion , theres not even an awareness of you are doing something that you can assign or a value (or devalue). You may even become unaware of how much you giving because there's not attachment (cord) on the idea until someone mentions it to you.

You find some very startling things about yourself, talents you didn't know you had are revealed.

We are taught that it is more important to give unto others, but what would we have to give if we are depleted? usually just density and attachment, instead of a clear flow. We are not taught to give in a correct fashion but in a way that drains us. I entirely understand about why we go into healing and then weary of it. Mine was because it was flogged into my head and I had to because I had a 'gift'. It was then a dreary obligation that had no satisfaction from. Any relationship that exhausts me is re-examined. I realized the very subtle ways that people attempt to control you and obligate you. You are literally freed from other's density and are free to enjoy 'less dense' people in a way where no one is obligated. its just mutual sort of sharing.

People who are very deeply attached in and corded in in negative ways percieve me as being aloof, arrogant otherwise involved in some sort of superiority complex. those who are not don't.
Physical life becomes a sort of tragedy/ comedy that you watch as the observer and comment on as one is then able to be aware of the cords promoting these sorts of things. Drama because dense cording in usually promotes that , its not real. Like a tv show. Comedic for the same reasons. You will find though that is where so many people are attached in or corded at-- What isn't real.

Everything that is real has this mysterious quality to it. You know something is going to happen its just the way it manifests is always startling.

[Sebastion]

I have to agree as well Delight! I believe as a result of my experiences in this life, that learning how to cut all the cords and stand authentically in your own energy as a true source being, THAT is, in my view, true spiritual mastery and your ultimate inherent destiny. How could it possibly be anything else? That is part and parcel the very reason why this thread was started! Needless to say, I ain't there yet but I am damn sure working on it! Learning how to cord in to your own source energy directly and cutting all negative energy ideas away is the only way I can see to go, from an energetic standpoint. This entire concept will empower you while helping others to help themselves along the way! It doesn't get any better than that.





It has made me wonder if spiritual mastery is less about responsibility to others than has been claimed. Maybe "spiritual" mastery is more about cutting all cords and demonstrating oneself what may be accomplished in body? Just my question. Sorry if that sounds heretical.


It is. Not heretical at all just the way we operate when we are authentically ourselves. that does not mean we are nice all the time or holy or special. We just allow who we are to be who we are. Most people who progress spiritually cut all cords, withdraw into solitude for a while, and suspend all beliefs (and their attachments or cords) before emerging out a the other end of things. Not to say we take a permanent vacation from everyone but everything but the discernment with whom we interact with, why and why others want to interact with us, becomes more apparent. There is no need there, but just something that occurs naturally. Giving to people is no longer a hardship or really any investment required whatsoever, it just occurs. So there is no sense of depletion , theres not even an awareness of you are doing something that you can assign or a value (or devalue). You may even become unaware of how much you giving because there's not attachment (cord) on the idea until someone mentions it to you.

You find some very startling things about yourself, talents you didn't know you had are revealed.

We are taught that it is more important to give unto others, but what would we have to give if we are depleted? usually just density and attachment, instead of a clear flow. We are not taught to give in a correct fashion but in a way that drains us. I entirely understand about why we go into healing and then weary of it. Mine was because it was flogged into my head and I had to because I had a 'gift'. It was then a dreary obligation that had no satisfaction from. Any relationship that exhausts me is re-examined. I realized the very subtle ways that people attempt to control you and obligate you. You are literally freed from other's density and are free to enjoy 'less dense' people in a way where no one is obligated. its just mutual sort of sharing.

People who are very deeply attached in and corded in in negative ways percieve me as being aloof, arrogant otherwise involved in some sort of superiority complex. those who are not don't.
Physical life becomes a sort of tragedy/ comedy that you watch as the observer and comment on as one is then able to be aware of the cords promoting these sorts of things. Drama because dense cording in usually promotes that , its not real. Like a tv show. Comedic for the same reasons. You will find though that is where so many people are attached in or corded at-- What isn't real.

Everything that is real has this mysterious quality to it. You know something is going to happen its just the way it manifests is always startling.

[write4change]

If I look at some of the minds I admire most right now even those I do not totally agree with --- they have all cut themselves loosed from what anyone thinks of them. They empower themselves thru the message of their own experience.

Shirley McClaine wrote Out on a Limb in 1977 and took an enormous amount of flake for it. For about five years, it looked like it might have taken her career. In the mid 80s she made a mini series herself about the book and experience. She talks about the process of coming into contact and vision with her own cord and learning to trust it. The first time scared her so bad, she went right back. In the miniseries there is a scene with her at the ocean trying to say I AM God and how difficult that is and how it is against everything society teaches and conditions.

Graham Hancock talks about the visions he has refused and he has taken enough "trips" to know he always has the power to refuse to see. He talks about one where he saw space ships and funneled lights and he was overcome with a fear of being taken away and refused the vision that he now regrets. It seems once refused you never get to go back there. He also talks about what a beautiful experience it was to have his body totally enclosed with an enormous snake who rested her head on his shoulder and gazed into his eyes. Now I would have gotten in the space ships instantly but allowing a big snake to totally enclose me with its head on my shoulder - girl snake or not - gives me the absolute willies. I doubt I could have gone there. It is why we have different stories revealing different parts of the whole no one I know has totally sussed. Terrence McKenna also talks about the ability to flow into the enormity of what he calls the Logos and Gregg Braeden calls it the Divine Matrix.

What is most important to me in all this research is being allowed to hear and listen to all these stories. What is most killing us as a people right now is our tremendous conditioning to judge. Just like quantrum physics is realizing something may not be there until it is observed, Braeden says nothing is good or bad until we lay our judgment on it. Western medicine does less healing because it lays judgment on everything. He has films of Chinese monks engaging the tumor and speaking mantras to it. They don't go this should not be here, this is bad, this is terminal. The patient, the monks, and tumor share the experience, meditate the why of it, and then let go. Only if all feel the rightness of the tumor leaving and total acceptance of that rightness does it go.

I have felt often that computers link minds and I have had some strange experiences with mine over it. I miss the one I have used for ten years and I have kept her and I am not dumping her. The last 24 hours this site has felt the best it ever has to me. And I am deeply encouraged about it.

[Delight]

I appreciate this thread....

9eagle9 spoke so articulately about how it feels to live "uncorded". I love this statement from the strength there:

Everything that is real has this mysterious quality to it. You know something is going to happen its just the way it manifests is always startling.

write4change

If I look at some of the minds I admire most right now even those I do not totally agree with --- they have all cut themselves loosed from what anyone thinks of them. They empower themselves thru the message of their own experience.


Sebastion said

I believe as a result of my experiences in this life, that learning how to cut all the cords and stand authentically in your own energy as a true source being, THAT is, in my view, true spiritual mastery and your ultimate inherent destiny. How could it possibly be anything else? That is part and parcel the very reason why this thread was started!

yes,yes,yes

One of the "Ah Has" I had from this tonight is about a kind of resistance to doing the graound work of basics. My "lower" chakra investments and the leaks there where I avoid rather than clean up the energy is needing attention. It can feel really good to float around with heart felt love and great ideas wafted in on the wings of angels. In reviewing Carolyn Myss' material, I benefited from her reminder that as great as ideas may be in our heads and hearts, they manifest when one is strong in base energies where the ideas are "grounded".

[Sebastion]

Borrowing a cute little story that AnotherBob told on a different thread as an analogy: AB was asked by a child to imagine being surrounded by 1000 hungry tigers, so he imagined that. The child then asked "what do you do?" AB thought about it and said I don't know, what do you do? The child replied: "STOP IMAGINING"! Incredibly important analogy when looked at from an energetic perspective as it was pure gold offered purely and simply from a child.

Take a look at this story from an energetic perspective: The tigers were just "ideas" that were potentially poised to cause you great harm. You have to energetically (imagine=cording in") to the idea of hungry tigers. How do you get out of that situation-stop imagining=stop energetically cording in to the idea. What happens energetically? The idea "dies" because you are not feeding it your energy and that is the way of all things, in a nutshell... The opposite is also true. As long as you are energetically corded in to any idea, the idea will continue to have "life". What if the idea or belief is negative in nature. You are feeding energy into something that has no positive return. It is simply a useless energy bleed.

[Belle]

Thank you so much for clarifying the term 'corded in'. I had never heard that term before...wasn't exactly sure what it meant/included/excluded...and have spent a while letting the concept 'simmer'.

In an 'aha' moment, I was reminded of when I first began ho'oponopono...tho' the information I was given can no longer be found online. It was explained to me that as we go through life, attachments are made between us and the people we come in contact with that can be energizing or toxic. Unless they are examined and cut, they will remain with us throughout our lives without our being aware of their affect on our being. Ho'oponopono was a way of examining these attachments and through the full process...and not the shortened version we hear so much about today...cut the negative attachments that no longer serve us and free ourselves from their effects. When I finished the initial work, (tho' it's never really finished, and must be maintained) I felt so much lighter and free.

Change the word 'attachments' to 'cords' and I get it...I think. I hadn't considered including all experiences and ideas as corded attachments before, but it makes sense. When all is complete, we finally stand fully in our own power. Yes?

Am I getting it or am I still off base?

[Sebastion]

Hi Belle:

You are absolutely spot on! There is no need for a lengthy process to be adhered to energetically unless you choose to believe it is required. Simply "unplug". You may lovingly thank it as a learning and learned experience and just let it go. It can be just that simple if you allow it to be so! The "idea" that it was, simply dies and you move on to the next learning experience!




Thank you so much for clarifying the term 'corded in'. I had never heard that term before...wasn't exactly sure what it meant/included/excluded...and have spent a while letting the concept 'simmer'.

In an 'aha' moment, I was reminded of when I first began ho'oponopono...tho' the information I was given can no longer be found online. It was explained to me that as we go through life, attachments are made between us and the people we come in contact with that can be energizing or toxic. Unless they are examined and cut, they will remain with us throughout our lives without our being aware of their affect on our being. Ho'oponopono was a way of examining these attachments and through the full process...and not the shortened version we hear so much about today...cut the negative attachments that no longer serve us and free ourselves from their effects.

Change the word 'attachments' to 'cords' and I get it...I think. I hadn't considered including all experiences and ideas as corded attachments before, but it makes sense. When all is complete, we finally stand fully in our own power. Yes?

Am I getting it or am I still off base?

[Belle]

Thanks, Sebastion. It may sound like a lengthy process, but it is quick and simple...I accept the responsibility for my part of the attachment and the good/harm I may have done wittingly or unwittingly, either give thanks or forgiveness for the effects of their attachment to me, and cut the attachment setting us both free. I actually visualize the 'cord' being cut. Something in me needs to 'make things right' before detaching.

And now, with the understanding of the cords of experiences and ideas, I have much work to do. I'm sure I carry a lot of unnecessary baggage accumulated throughout my years on earth that have never been considered or examined. This body and all of its accessories (ego, etc) is relatively high maintainence to the I am within, but necessary.

[Sebastion]

Thank you Belle. I see at the end of your post you have mentioned the "magic" word...EGO. To be as openly honest and candid as I can be, I never knew that the ego was as monumental a "problem" as has been displayed on this forum! I never knew about all the things I could not spiritually accomplish because my ego was blocking me, oh thank god for my own ignorance! Because of my own ignorance of it to begin with, I just never had the opportunity to cord in to that particular "idea". Now because I have never done that, there is no reason to cord in, buy in or whatever to that belief system of ideas rolled up into one major "idea called ego". Therefore, the idea can never hold any control or power over that which I AM...





Thanks, Sebastion. It may sound like a lengthy process, but it is quick and simple...I accept the responsibility for my part of the attachment and the good/harm I may have done wittingly or unwittingly, either give thanks or forgiveness for the effects of their attachment to me, and cut the attachment setting us both free. I actually visualize the 'cord' being cut. Something in me needs to 'make things right' before detaching.

And now, with the understanding of the cords of experiences and ideas, I have much work to do. I'm sure I carry a lot of unnecessary baggage accumulated throughout my years on earth that have never been considered or examined. This body and all of its accessories (ego, etc) is relatively high maintainence to the I am within, but necessary.

[Sebastion]

Looking through your own eyes from an energetic perspective, one may note that the most important "tool" at your command is your own attention. Your attention is under your control. The little trick here is to be aware of where your attention is being focused and remaining in that awareness of where your attention is focused can sometimes be easier said then done!

Your attention is your point of power. That's why everything outside of you is screaming for your attention. Never underestimate how powerful your attention can be-take a look, become aware of it and become the master of your own point of power.

Remember, wherever your head goes, your butt is bound to follow! Meditation/contemplation periods go along way towards allowing/assisting you to begin to deliberately focus and gather your own energy in a powerful, peaceful and loving way.

[Sebastion]

Following the energetic reasoning contained in the original post, it certainly seems more then reasonable to conclude that your incarnation upon this planet was initially made possible because you corded in, bought in, tapped in to the "idea" of having a life here to start with. The reasons why you came where all supporting ideas adding more life to the primary IDEA.

Everything occurs initially as a thought. You don't do anything without having the initial thought first occur within you. How do you live life other then energizing ideas by cording in and then seeing the idea through?

As has been revealed everything follows the exact same theme energetically. When you see and understand the theme, does that not tell you how powerful you really are/can be and exactly how it's done?

[Sebastion]

There is more in the unraveling to know about and understand but there appears to be no energetic exchange and no interest as a result. I will not post to myself.

[9eagle9]

It's not a concept that interests but a few people because of the simplicity of it actually makes it 'seem' difficult. It implies a certain amount of self governance that people are simply not willing to demonstrate in this point in time. We cord into false paradigms unitl we cord into authenticity and its making that shift that people find difficult because they are attached, corded, into certain beliefs that replace authentic energy movement.

[Sebastion]

I personally have a fascination with the idea of what it means to live the idea of "authenticity"-the actual beingness of it. I have never cared much for talking the talk but the actuality of what it really is to walk the walk. From my perspective, the walk ends where divine love begins. It truly is the real walk of a lifetime. I have seen it, I know what it's like as I have experienced it. Guess who is on the final walk home? Guess who isn't looking back any longer? lol





It's not a concept that interests but a few people because of the simplicity of it actually makes it 'seem' difficult. It implies a certain amount of self governance that people are simply not willing to demonstrate in this point in time. We cord into false paradigms unitl we cord into authenticity and its making that shift that people find difficult because they are attached, corded, into certain beliefs that replace authentic energy movement.

[9eagle9]

I've learned about divine love in the fact its not sticky and obligated. Divinety never says you have to love me. Humility is not so much modestly but allowing divinity to work through you without judging or questioning it.

We may not comprehend God because we cannot comprehend ourselves. If we are in fact a conduit of Source which is authenticity, and we're not comprehending our own selves (or even listening or being aware of our self0 then how would we comprehend divinity or divine love unless we allow it.

Self acceptance is hugely important.

[Sebastion]

Guess what 9eagle9....as you may full well know....if one grasps what has been stated on this thread...you can put it to work by cording to the idea of divine love. If you give it enough energy with supporting ideas of why you can, while cutting all the attachments to why you can't do it...the inevitable result will happen. You will experience fully what divine love is...and then you will know.




I've learned about divine love in the fact its not sticky and obligated. Divinety never says you have to love me. Humility is not so much modestly but allowing divinity to work through you without judging or questioning it.

We may not comprehend God because we cannot comprehend ourselves. If we are in fact a conduit of Source which is authenticity, and we're not comprehending our own selves (or even listening or being aware of our self0 then how would we comprehend divinity or divine love unless we allow it.

Self acceptance is hugely important.

[Delight]

There is more in the unraveling to know about and understand but there appears to be no energetic exchange and no interest as a result. I will not post to myself.

I am so very interested in this thread. I resonate to the posts and the mood here.

I want to share something today about the seamless way that energy is experienced in my self in various guises. I have been working with what headaches "are" for me. They seem to be not just in my head but they move around my body and there is nausea and an INCREDIBLE shut down of "wll" and a "malaise" (to the point that I have to go to bed and the house could fall and I'd not be able to move).

I have just really really wanted to turn this around. The last couple of episodes, embracing more than ever that this is for a positive purpose of building a new wiring, I was feeling into the sensations in a new way. I can't explain the exact change in relationship but I accentuated a kind of encouraging of this energy to reach into all the corners of my field. This last episode did respond fairly quickly. On the other end, I feel it was like the reversal of "cording". It was a physical manifesation of bringing back energy...like pins and needles of the field waking?

This shift is working with what felt like a threat is very gratifying at this time.... Means anything is amenable!

It would be super to have more discussion here. You are not alone in being happy to "suss" what is taking responsibility and expressing conscious manifestation in form. This is sort of my takes at the moment....We apparently are seeing some bifurcation in willingness. One branch is very curious/ challenged/ slogging through/ doing the action of "what is this about energetically? How to reclaim our power"? Another branch is frozen in place by (fear of?) Power as if it is not coming from one but always to one externally.

[9eagle9]

Even if you leave the concept of authenticity and divinity its really just empowering not to get attached to certain ideas to the point you limit yourself or not see what is really occuring around you. Just even in daily life, and i do that. I think we all do.

I had recieved a request earlier in the week to meet with the Farrier at 5 yesterday. So pull the horse out he's supposed to see, and notice there's nothing wrong with her feet. My first clue, but who am I to question. Then I recieve a text insisting i had to go get iodine for the farrier.

' I have a huge bottle of iodine in the barn' I text back.

No its been spilled you have to go buy iodine.

But the farrier will be here in a minute. He doesn't need iodine to do their feet.

Go buy iodine!!!!

Okay okay geez get your panties in a wad. Plus I'm not used to people ordering me around but I go buy iodine but I'm so fixated on not being late for the farrier I just toddle along on my merry way. .

I come back to the barn and ther's a car parked in the indoor riding arena. That's weird. Its in the way and it has to be moved before I start working any horses but no one knows who the car belongs to or is even interested in why the car is there. Then there's a friend of mine who showed up to speak to the farrier because her horses foot was bad.

Her foot isn't bad, I object. .

Yes it is.

She was fine this morning.

It happened later like an hour ago.

How would you know you just got here?

Then I wander off to check out the horses foot, and to pull her out for the farrier who is way late by this time. Which is is just as well because he's got two horses waiting for him that have nothing wrong with their feet and i need time to sort this out only to be herded back to house my daughter and my friend.

No no no, go in the house and give Sam the iodine.

But its for the farrier.

JUST GO IN!!! Why do you have to abe so difficult?!

I'm not being difficult I'm being totatlly rational here, you are the people who insist on iodine that the farrier doesn't need, that I have a gallon of it and you want me to stand two horses that have perfectly fine feet but I'm the crazy person here?

So I go into the door, pause to knock, and my normally mild mannered friend practically shoves me in through the door--GO GO GO You're so slow and pokey---_ everyone is being brusque and mean with me. I walk into a completely dark house, no one answers my calls, so I flick the light on and the barn owner is crouched hiding behind the couch the dark , so I said, God if you didn't want company you just had to say so you don't have to hide in a dark house.....

By this time I am entirely sick of people behaving so weirdly and behaving like its my fault.

So then everyone jumps out from their hiding places yelling Suprise and I'm standing there wondering what the hell they are doing. One minute everyone's climbing up my ass and the next they start throwing confetti and snapping pictures of me and the only thing I could say was , Where is the farrier?

[Sebastion]

Hi Delight:

One thing for certain that I have seen and undoubtedly will continue is that this understanding will change the way you perceive yourself and the entire world! It continues to settle deep within me and I welcome it. I am seeing that my life is as it is because I attached myself to lesser energetic ideas for many and varied reasons. Now, I know better. One has to smile in that knowledge because there is no place left to turn but up. Perhaps you are now beginning to see how it works in it's initial stages within you as well! Cool huh?
I will post additional material to look at tomorrow!







There is more in the unraveling to know about and understand but there appears to be no energetic exchange and no interest as a result. I will not post to myself.

I am so very interested in this thread. I resonate to the posts and the mood here.

I want to share something today about the seamless way that energy is experienced in my self in various guises. I have been working with what headaches "are" for me. They seem to be not just in my head but they move around my body and there is nausea and an INCREDIBLE shut down of "wll" and a "malaise" (to the point that I have to go to bed and the house could fall and I'd not be able to move).

I have just really really wanted to turn this around. The last couple of episodes, embracing more than ever that this is for a positive purpose of building a new wiring, I was feeling into the sensations in a new way. I can't explain the exact change in relationship but I accentuated a kind of encouraging of this energy to reach into all the corners of my field. This last episode did respond fairly quickly. On the other end, I feel it was like the reversal of "cording". It was a physical manifesation of bringing back energy...like pins and needles of the field waking?

This shift is working with what felt like a threat is very gratifying at this time.... Means anything is amenable!

It would be super to have more discussion here. You are not alone in being happy to "suss" what is taking responsibility and expressing conscious manifestation in form. This is sort of my takes at the moment....We apparently are seeing some bifurcation in willingness. One branch is very curious/ challenged/ slogging through/ doing the action of "what is this about energetically? How to reclaim our power"? Another branch is frozen in place by (fear of?) Power as if it is not coming from one but always to one externally.

[Sebastion]

I sincerely hope you had one whale of a good time at your surprise party! Thanks for the story it was fun to read...




Even if you leave the concept of authenticity and divinity its really just empowering not to get attached to certain ideas to the point you limit yourself or not see what is really occuring around you. Just even in daily life, and i do that. I think we all do.

I had recieved a request earlier in the week to meet with the Farrier at 5 yesterday. So pull the horse out he's supposed to see, and notice there's nothing wrong with her feet. My first clue, but who am I to question. Then I recieve a text insisting i had to go get iodine for the farrier.

' I have a huge bottle of iodine in the barn' I text back.

No its been spilled you have to go buy iodine.

But the farrier will be here in a minute. He doesn't need iodine to do their feet.

Go buy iodine!!!!

Okay okay geez get your panties in a wad. Plus I'm not used to people ordering me around but I go buy iodine but I'm so fixated on not being late for the farrier I just toddle along on my merry way. .

I come back to the barn and ther's a car parked in the indoor riding arena. That's weird. Its in the way and it has to be moved before I start working any horses but no one knows who the car belongs to or is even interested in why the car is there. Then there's a friend of mine who showed up to speak to the farrier because her horses foot was bad.

Her foot isn't bad, I object. .

Yes it is.

She was fine this morning.

It happened later like an hour ago.

How would you know you just got here?

Then I wander off to check out the horses foot, and to pull her out for the farrier who is way late by this time. Which is is just as well because he's got two horses waiting for him that have nothing wrong with their feet and i need time to sort this out only to be herded back to house my daughter and my friend.

No no no, go in the house and give Sam the iodine.

But its for the farrier.

JUST GO IN!!! Why do you have to abe so difficult?!

I'm not being difficult I'm being totatlly rational here, you are the people who insist on iodine that the farrier doesn't need, that I have a gallon of it and you want me to stand two horses that have perfectly fine feet but I'm the crazy person here?

So I go into the door, pause to knock, and my normally mild mannered friend practically shoves me in through the door--GO GO GO You're so slow and pokey---_ everyone is being brusque and mean with me. I walk into a completely dark house, no one answers my calls, so I flick the light on and the barn owner is crouched hiding behind the couch the dark , so I said, God if you didn't want company you just had to say so you don't have to hide in a dark house.....

By this time I am entirely sick of people behaving so weirdly and behaving like its my fault.

So then everyone jumps out from their hiding places yelling Suprise and I'm standing there wondering what the hell they are doing. One minute everyone's climbing up my ass and the next they start throwing confetti and snapping pictures of me and the only thing I could say was , Where is the farrier?

[Cilka]

One way to know for sure that you deep down understand this concept is when you stop taking this physical life too seriously. When you get hit by a two by four (something extremely stressful in a physical/emotional sense) and you are able to still stand on your feet firmly while looking at the situation with intense understanding, then you are definitely on the right pathway. However, in order to know for sure if you are on the right pathway, you need to be hit by a two by four and be tested for how you will approach your lesson.

[Sebastion]

Hi Cilka:

I would agree that life itself will test you every step of the way. Sometimes it seems like a two by four, sometimes it's a swift kick in the pants! You will know within yourself, usually after the fact. Knowing within yourself is all that's necessary and that is enough for me.





One way to know for sure that you deep down understand this concept is when you stop taking this physical life too seriously. When you get hit by a two by four (something extremely stressful in a physical/emotional sense) and you are able to still stand on your feet firmly while looking at the situation with intense understanding, then you are definitely on the right pathway. However, in order to know for sure if you are on the right pathway, you need to be hit by a two by four and be tested for how you will approach your lesson.

[bennycog]

It's all a grand energy game....

Just as the mirage of a city is not the city it reflects, the essence of you is not your body nor any of the ideas you have about it. The real mystery begins to unravel when you understand that it is you as conscious awareness and energy that gives "life" to all of your ideas energetically. The great mystery arises when you identify solely with an idea(s) and not the energy that gives "life" to an idea.

That is the great secret hidden within a million flowery words. You are the source and energy which gives life to all ideas and ideas in form. It is as simple and powerful as that! I dare say that when this is understood within you, you are well on your way to all enlightenment. Put on your energetic glasses and see for yourself. You will see that all things exist as "ideas" and "ideas in form".

The deeper you explore this understanding the more you will see that it is one of the founding principles upon which and gives rise to, "life" to all creation, levels and dimensionality.

Again, you are the energy which allows/gives/animates "ideas". You are not the idea itself. The initial error begins when your identity becomes wrapped up in an idea or group of ideas and not the source from which the idea was given birth!

This is the "energetic treasure chest" upon which you sit. You may open it up and see what's inside at your own discretion.

your right ! i guess the reason why i have not woken myself fully up, is that i want to learn more here, i want to see the change in humanity, i want to experience the movement of our race becoming the aware, i want to taste the freedoms of our beliefs and push aside the petty dramas that unfold before us.. i want to see our planet live as prosperious as it should. i want not only to have the secret truth revealed but to mainly have the punishing to us, in many forms, and in many continents of this planet to end..

[Belle]

Have noticed many subtle 'changes' since paying attention to energetic attachments and consciously choosing what ideas to cord in to and what ideas to cut.

There is a lot of pressure and stress in the workplace right now...I can feel it swirling around me, but it cannot touch me as I choose otherwise, for example.

Getting more and more comfortable 'in my own skin', with my own ideas and beliefs... which has been a struggle for me. My 'ego' carried the idea that I was never good enough, smart enough...that I was always 'less than'. Not true. I no longer accept that idea.

It's like I've made a tiny shift that is making a large difference.

Thank you, Sebastion.

[createnjoy]

Perhaps our destiny is freedom from density!

[Kelly]

I have to say, i love this thread, it moves me deeply, and sits right with me.
I have had similar thoughts, but not as profound as this, but i will continue to ponder upon it, and see what comes out of my never ending stream of conciousness!

[Nenuphar]

I am really enjoying this thread - thank you all! :high5:

[Ernie Nemeth]

In the Love Guru movie, starring Mike Myers, he shows some of his farcical books.
One was titled, "Does it hurt when you do that? Then stop doing it."
That one stuck with me...

[Sebastion]

Hi Bennycog:

I would love to see the same ideals. But life has taught me that if I seek to understand myself, then I can begin to understand the world. It could be stated as Ghandi said, to be the change that you wish to see in the world. I cannot change the world but I have the power and the ability to change myself as does everyone else. It's up to each person to recognize it within themselves. Blessings my friend.







It's all a grand energy game....

Just as the mirage of a city is not the city it reflects, the essence of you is not your body nor any of the ideas you have about it. The real mystery begins to unravel when you understand that it is you as conscious awareness and energy that gives "life" to all of your ideas energetically. The great mystery arises when you identify solely with an idea(s) and not the energy that gives "life" to an idea.

That is the great secret hidden within a million flowery words. You are the source and energy which gives life to all ideas and ideas in form. It is as simple and powerful as that! I dare say that when this is understood within you, you are well on your way to all enlightenment. Put on your energetic glasses and see for yourself. You will see that all things exist as "ideas" and "ideas in form".

The deeper you explore this understanding the more you will see that it is one of the founding principles upon which and gives rise to, "life" to all creation, levels and dimensionality.

Again, you are the energy which allows/gives/animates "ideas". You are not the idea itself. The initial error begins when your identity becomes wrapped up in an idea or group of ideas and not the source from which the idea was given birth!

This is the "energetic treasure chest" upon which you sit. You may open it up and see what's inside at your own discretion.

your right ! i guess the reason why i have not woken myself fully up, is that i want to learn more here, i want to see the change in humanity, i want to experience the movement of our race becoming the aware, i want to taste the freedoms of our beliefs and push aside the petty dramas that unfold before us.. i want to see our planet live as prosperious as it should. i want not only to have the secret truth revealed but to mainly have the punishing to us, in many forms, and in many continents of this planet to end..

[Sebastion]

Hi Belle:

Your thinking about not being good enough, smart enough, etc is very nearly the story of my life and I relate completely. It was part of my programing as the second born son. Your comment reminded me of my own personal mine field that I never knew existed and discovered it accidentally. I was watching a nature story on t.v. one day and the theme was how wild animal babies could only survive according to how well they had "imprinted" survival skills from their parent(s). The thought occurred to me that human children do the same thing.

Then I applied the same principle to myself....found myself gasping as I said "oh my god.."

The key word is "imprinting". And that's all I'm gonna say about that!





Have noticed many subtle 'changes' since paying attention to energetic attachments and consciously choosing what ideas to cord in to and what ideas to cut.

There is a lot of pressure and stress in the workplace right now...I can feel it swirling around me, but it cannot touch me as I choose otherwise, for example.

Getting more and more comfortable 'in my own skin', with my own ideas and beliefs... which has been a struggle for me. My 'ego' carried the idea that I was never good enough, smart enough...that I was always 'less than'. Not true. I no longer accept that idea.

It's like I've made a tiny shift that is making a large difference.

Thank you, Sebastion.

[Sebastion]

Hi Creatinjoy:

By golly I think you've got it! The keys to all understanding have ever been on your side of the door...blessings indeed!




Perhaps our destiny is freedom from density!

[Sebastion]

I am not afraid to say that perhaps one of the most powerful abilities that we humans have, which ironically may be the least appreciated and uncultivated and ignored is the ability to IMAGINE. Imagination is the most powerful energy generator we possess. It is the one thing which fuels all ideas. It is the fuel derived from the imagination that empowers all sexual "ideas", is it not? lol It is your imagination that gets you all excited about any "idea" as you energetically attach to that idea, whatever it may be!

It's funny how one can easily accomplish fulfilling or bringing an idea to life, when all of your attention is focused on why you CAN DO it and it never occurs to you even one time, that you can't......

Remember what ol' Henry Ford said: If you think you can or you think you can't, your right........

[VaughnB]

When i read Cyndi Dales book on the Subtle Body (http://energeticanatomy.blogspot.com/), I recall there are many more than just 7 chakras, + an array of energy bodies that surround us.

Granted everything is energy, and how we work with & manifest these energies; results in our balance or out-of-balance dis-ease. Thinking most certainly can get in the way, yet most of us throughout the day or in our sleep do think, ponder, dream, vision, we are making choices, discerning our life's experiences, our reality from all the myriad arrays of inputs whether genetic or environmental that influence us. The trick is the awareness of these forces, words, impressions, and how they affect our story, our metaphor of existence...that's the heroes journey according to Joseph Campbell.

Once we realize the divine in everything that surrounds us, within us, we realize we are the Buddha, the Jesus in us, surrounds us, in work, to doing the dishes...walking that narrow path we discern our own truth. As we form our attitudes we make choices some which I've tried to focus on are as follows:


Sincerity of Intention
Compassion
Vulnerability and Openness
Patience
Equanimity
Responsiveness
Passion
Relaxation
Contentment
Sense of Humor
Wonder, the Magic
Humility

Another pitfall is the spiritual bypass, thinking we've reached our goal, when in fact our cup is never full and our journey never ends, the cycle of archetypes repeats and we face new dragons, new doorways of dark and light convinced of a duality when in fact its all a part of the same divine scheme, heaven and hell is right here.

[Sebastion]

Hi Vaughn:

I couldn't agree more and am aware of all you have said and have been for some time (years). It is yet another reason why I have posted this thread! There is something that happens, a deep understanding takes place within you when you begin to view everything energetically as ideas and ideas in form. The illusion starts to become very apparent and a deeper awakening within starts to take place....it's an expansion of consciousness which begins within you.
Great post Vaughn!





When i read Cyndi Dales book on the Subtle Body (http://energeticanatomy.blogspot.com/), I recall there are many more than just 7 chakras, + an array of energy bodies that surround us.

Granted everything is energy, and how we work with & manifest these energies; results in our balance or out-of-balance dis-ease. Thinking most certainly can get in the way, yet most of us throughout the day or in our sleep do think, ponder, dream, vision, we are making choices, discerning our life's experiences, our reality from all the myriad arrays of inputs whether genetic or environmental that influence us. The trick is the awareness of these forces, words, impressions, and how they affect our story, our metaphor of existence...that's the heroes journey according to Joseph Campbell.

Once we realize the divine in everything that surrounds us, within us, we realize we are the Buddha, the Jesus in us, surrounds us, in work, to doing the dishes...walking that narrow path we discern our own truth. As we form our attitudes we make choices some which I've tried to focus on are as follows:


Sincerity of Intention
Compassion
Vulnerability and Openness
Patience
Equanimity
Responsiveness
Passion
Relaxation
Contentment
Sense of Humor
Wonder, the Magic
Humility

Another pitfall is the spiritual bypass, thinking we've reached our goal, when in fact our cup is never full and our journey never ends, the cycle of archetypes repeats and we face new dragons, new doorways of dark and light convinced of a duality when in fact its all a part of the same divine scheme, heaven and hell is right here.

[Sebastion]

I would like to inject into this thread some understanding as to what its purpose is. As has been noted on other threads, the mind cannot be used to seek something from mind, for the mind cannot grasp itself. This is truth indeed. But I have noted that no one has stated nor told anyone else, that there is a greater truth, and that being: Spirit can be used to seek Spirit. What is "spirit"? I have no concrete definition for what spirit is nor do I need one. I do not need to know the particular make and model of a car in order to drive it. But I do need the "keys" for the ignition before starting it up, do I not?

This thread additionally is not here to prove anything to you nor will there be any intent to do so. If there is any proof that is required, then prove it to yourself as there are already "keys" laying around. No one can do for you, what only you can do for yourself.

[VaughnB]

Ah yes Sebastian, and therein lies our trial in finding those keys. {By the way I've a link Tao of the Traveler that speaks to The Seven Keys of Enlightenment in my salutation}

Many of the great sages, mystics and saints have had their challenges, Mother Teresa in her letters expressed how she felt abandoned, "Please pray specially for me that I may not spoil His work and that Our Lord may show Himself -- for there is such terrible darkness within me, as if everything was dead," she wrote in 1953.



E. Tolle speaks of a good method to keep in the moment by just looking at your hand.
Louis Schwartzberg speaks to the smile, gesture or pat on the back in his film Gratitude. I've quoted him when he's describing our expression when we say "Oh My God." and what that means.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXDMoiEkyuQ


Oh My God -When we see ourselves in Nature and we witness how truly connected we all are--
The "Oh" makes you present, makes you mindful.
The "My" means it connects to something deep inside your Soul, it creates a Gateway inside yourself to rise up and be heard.
And "God" is that personal journey we all want to be on, to be connected to a Universe that celebrates Life,

[Sebastion]

Thank you Vaughn. The first "trial", if you want to call it that, is one of recognition. What is "spirit within you"? Energetically one could recognize that it is "aware energy" which energizes the body and gives it life. After all, when your aware energy unplugs from the body, is not the body said to be dead? Is it not your energetic awareness that which gives life to all ideas and ideas in form, as has already been shown?




Ah yes Sebastian, and therein lies our trial in finding those keys. {By the way I've a link Tao of the Traveler that speaks to The Seven Keys of Enlightenment in my salutation}

Many of the great sages, mystics and saints have had their challenges, Mother Teresa in her letters expressed how she felt abandoned, "Please pray specially for me that I may not spoil His work and that Our Lord may show Himself -- for there is such terrible darkness within me, as if everything was dead," she wrote in 1953.



E. Tolle speaks of a good method to keep in the moment by just looking at your hand.
Louis Schwartzberg speaks to the smile, gesture or pat on the back in his film Gratitude. I've quoted him when he's describing our expression when we say "Oh My God." and what that means.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXDMoiEkyuQ


Oh My God -When we see ourselves in Nature and we witness how truly connected we all are--
The "Oh" makes you present, makes you mindful.
The "My" means it connects to something deep inside your Soul, it creates a Gateway inside yourself to rise up and be heard.
And "God" is that personal journey we all want to be on, to be connected to a Universe that celebrates Life,

[Sebastion]

To further illustrate what has been said in the previous post, I borrowed part of Sandy"s post on Digs new thread "look what the cat drug in". Her post illustrates exactly one of the primary themes that this thread is built upon-energy! Thank you, Sandy!!!



Thoughts and feelings are not only chemical-based but they are (electrical) energy or frequency based as well.

http://www.heartmath.org/research/sc...eractions.html

Thus, the last two studies summarized in this section explore interactions that take place between one person’s heart and anothers brain when two people touch or are in proximity. This research elucidates the intriguing finding that the electromagnetic signals generated by the heart have the capacity to affect others around us. Our data indicate that one person’s heart signal can affect anothers brainwaves, and that heart-brain synchronization can occur between two people when they interact. Finally, it appears that as individuals increase psychophysiological coherence, they become more sensitive to the subtle electromagnetic signals communicated by those around them. Taken together, these results suggest that cardioelectromagnetic communication may be a little-known source of information exchange between people, and that this exchange is influenced by our emotions.

The highlighted section of energetic communication is the most fascinating and intriguing aspect of this research. This explores (energy) information being transferred between electric fields. We experience these types of interactions when we walk into a room and are able to “sense” something is wrong. We can’t quite put our finger on it. We feel bad vibes but we don’t know why and more often than not we will dismiss the vibes even though we know we were probably the topic of conversation moments before or that a heated exchange has just taken place between two people who are now sitting with fake smiles on flustered faces. It’s easier to tow the line of ignorance and dismiss the phenomenon despite the obvious static or electrical fluctuations lingering in the air.

The concept of intelligent energy gets even fuzzier because energy is defined through the conservation of energy.

“Energy can neither be created nor destroyed it can only be transformed from one state to another”

Think about the above for a moment. If thoughts, memories and emotions which can be measured via ‘brain-waves’ and electric fields, then these electric projections can only exist as part of something that cannot be created or destroyed.

Does the fact that the Heart field is massively more powerful than the brain field confirm which organ has the influence on the body. Does the presence of electric fields confirm the presence of at least two electric currents “pinched” at points we can call nodes. The nodes being the brain and heart. Let’s not forget the human body is designed as a near-perfect conductor of electricity because it is very much water-based… it is the perfect medium (entity) for facilitating this mysterious force.

When the heart stops beating or the brain ceases to function the Human body becomes inanimate or dead. What has happened… the body is no longer being animated and electricity (and consciousness) are no longer present in the flesh. Matter becomes lifeless, there is no magnetic field, the body cannot function when the electrical forces have departed. Where does this life-giving force or Fohat go if it cannot be created or destroyed. Some suggest the events (memories) that constitute to your life becomes part of the Akashic records or the eternal library.

Thoughts manifest within an ethereal part of our-self that we call the Mind. Memories, like thoughts, are energy-based and are “seen” in the Mind and not before our eyes. They are intangible. Where does this “information” disappear too, the brain is flesh and blood, it is tissue that consists of molecules, which are atoms fused together… they are indivisible particles… pieces of matter.

There are no flesh and blood filing cabinets hidden away in that drab grey organ

It is no longer viable to argue the brain is the driving seat of consciousness or that communication between the heart and brain is a one-way process… the belief that the brain speaks and the heart does as its told has been thrown out the window.

http://www.heartmath.org/research/sc...eractions.html






































‎

[Delight]

What is "spirit"? I have no concrete definition for what spirit is nor do I need one. I do not need to know the particular make and model of a car in order to drive it. But I do need the "keys" for the ignition before starting it up, do I not?
[/B]

Thanks again for the discussion.
In my life, what I intend is to find out where I put those pesky keys.
I want to give a concrete example of where I have been looking lately.

1. I believe that I am (how big with what components? Not sure but I feel energy beyond the body and many intellectual theories).
2. I think that I am a spiritual being in this density in order to learn manifestation in form. This seems to have a technology with keys to drive it.
3. Big question...is there free will or not? I think: Must be a paradox here? Is surrender to a larger self really the key here? It feels like a relief when I can relax there.
4. I have some specific issues that seem really important. They stress me quite bit because they seem to be the fulcrum for me. They revolve around letting go of old models of my life and how will I survive? Sems like I have to surrender THEN see the change?

Last night I felt again the great relief of surrender paradoxically to myself. Then today, I am trying to keep that feeling. I have no clue if this is the "point", a dead end or something towards the truth??
However, I feel strong intention to find the keys and drive into the sunset. Maggie

[Sebastion]

The process as explained may seem difficult but it really is simple, yet powerful when you understand it and therein lies the beauty of it. It is something everybody does all the time, everyday of their life automatically, at least and until, you become consciously aware of it! When you become consciously aware of it, you become more discriminating as to what ideas you are giving life to and what ideas you can cut the cords to-remove your belief from!
To answer your first question: 1. You will ever be what you feel you are, according to your ideas and beliefs here in 3d.

2. You are absolutely correct.

3. Seems to me you have absolute free will with your own energy! Surrender into your own energy is
awesome and peaceful, yes. Lots of benefits there!

4. "old" energetic modalities passing away always precedes the entrance for new energy coming in!





What is "spirit"? I have no concrete definition for what spirit is nor do I need one. I do not need to know the particular make and model of a car in order to drive it. But I do need the "keys" for the ignition before starting it up, do I not?
[/B]

Thanks again for the discussion.
In my life, what I intend is to find out where I put those pesky keys.
I want to give a concrete example of where I have been looking lately.

1. I believe that I am (how big with what components? Not sure but I feel energy beyond the body and many intellectual theories).
2. I think that I am a spiritual being in this density in order to learn manifestation in form. This seems to have a technology with keys to drive it.
3. Big question...is there free will or not? I think: Must be a paradox here? Is surrender to a larger self really the key here? It feels like a relief when I can relax there.
4. I have some specific issues that seem really important. They stress me quite bit because they seem to be the fulcrum for me. They revolve around letting go of old models of my life and how will I survive? Sems like I have to surrender THEN see the change?

Last night I felt again the great relief of surrender paradoxically to myself. Then today, I am trying to keep that feeling. I have no clue if this is the "point", a dead end or something towards the truth??
However, I feel strong intention to find the keys and drive into the sunset. Maggie

[9eagle9]

I worked with a woman yesterday who was holding great resentment towards her soon to be daughter in law. That too is about cording. The DIL is pregant and the woman is petrfied of the notion of her having a baby and has panic attacks whenever its mentioned. After sorting through the cording we arrive at the very honest statement that she doesn't like kids at all. She can't make this statement because--"oh my god, its not spiritual. She's a very potent shamaness so of course she can't be running around making statements like she doesn't like kids."

So we sort through the cords and find where all this 'hating' kids started. She was once a nun who had a child. As result of that she bore a tremendous amount of shame, no one to help her, social stigma, social shame, her 'father' , a priest that impregnated her wanted nothing to do with her.

Flip to the next life now she's a nun in an orphanage with the overwhelming responsibility of caring for unwanted children. She carries that unwanted child energy or cording because she came from an orphanage herself. The very place she put her unwanted child in the other lifetime as a nun when she had the social stigma of an unwanted child. Overwhelming responsiblity and shame.

This lifetime when she was 19 she got pregnant, her hubsand didn't want to be seen in public with her because she was fat and ugnly, her mother was ashamed of her, her father said she was used goods. All this trauma because of children and its followed her through lifetime.s Any wonder why she doesn't like kids? Any wonder she's freaking out because her DIL is nothing but a child, irresponsible and the woman somehow knows she's going to end up responsible for this child. Is this karma? No its cording. Same crap keeps happening over and over because we end tethered to one event from the past. Each lifetime is an opporutnity to clear out this cording. That sort of cording too keeps us coming back here.

She feels this darkness coming in on her , whenever she tries to clear this situation, suffocating her. Whats in the darkness. That child that is soon to be born. The more she tries to push her resentment away the more it closes in.

So what do you? Get back to that original nun with the baby, and go beyond that when that maternal energy was clear and plug in there. Cut that cord, release the shame because that cord holds you in the past and creates a scenario of creating the same conditons over and over until you clear it out. You are held in the past constantly until you do .

Once a person clears out that sort of cording time starts becoming irrelevant, its easy to stay in the present, its done without conscious intent because there's nothing dragging you into the past.

Get everyone to cut what is connecting them to the past and time will cease to exist because there's only the cording we should have. Source cords. Always in the present.

[Sebastion]

Thank you 9eagle9 for this story. As I see it, it is the epitome of the truth! Unless one truly begins working on themselves in this way (cording in and cutting energetic cords) you will never discover how powerful this is nor how very powerful you are. No one can teach a system that is more powerful then this. Who is the teacher? You are. Who is the student? You are. There are tools, keys, laying about all over this thread. Guess who has to utilize them before they can work.....





I worked with a woman yesterday who was holding great resentment towards her soon to be daughter in law. That too is about cording. The DIL is pregant and the woman is petrfied of the notion of her having a baby and has panic attacks whenever its mentioned. After sorting through the cording we arrive at the very honest statement that she doesn't like kids at all. She can't make this statement because--"oh my god, its not spiritual. She's a very potent shamaness so of course she can't be running around making statements like she doesn't like kids."

So we sort through the cords and find where all this 'hating' kids started. She was once a nun who had a child. As result of that she bore a tremendous amount of shame, no one to help her, social stigma, social shame, her 'father' , a priest that impregnated her wanted nothing to do with her.

Flip to the next life now she's a nun in an orphanage with the overwhelming responsibility of caring for unwanted children. She carries that unwanted child energy or cording because she came from an orphanage herself. The very place she put her unwanted child in the other lifetime as a nun when she had the social stigma of an unwanted child. Overwhelming responsiblity and shame.

This lifetime when she was 19 she got pregnant, her hubsand didn't want to be seen in public with her because she was fat and ugnly, her mother was ashamed of her, her father said she was used goods. All this trauma because of children and its followed her through lifetime.s Any wonder why she doesn't like kids? Any wonder she's freaking out because her DIL is nothing but a child, irresponsible and the woman somehow knows she's going to end up responsible for this child. Is this karma? No its cording. Same crap keeps happening over and over because we end tethered to one event from the past. Each lifetime is an opporutnity to clear out this cording. That sort of cording too keeps us coming back here.

She feels this darkness coming in on her , whenever she tries to clear this situation, suffocating her. Whats in the darkness. That child that is soon to be born. The more she tries to push her resentment away the more it closes in.

So what do you? Get back to that original nun with the baby, and go beyond that when that maternal energy was clear and plug in there. Cut that cord, release the shame because that cord holds you in the past and creates a scenario of creating the same conditons over and over until you clear it out. You are held in the past constantly until you do .

Once a person clears out that sort of cording time starts becoming irrelevant, its easy to stay in the present, its done without conscious intent because there's nothing dragging you into the past.

Get everyone to cut what is connecting them to the past and time will cease to exist because there's only the cording we should have. Source cords. Always in the present.

[Sebastion]

I feel/know that Divine Love is the highest energy one can experience. Why might that be? Because that is where you as an individualized source being originated from. Please note that ones gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. Please note also that this is heart "love" energy having it's roots in the Great Heart of the One.

The heart of all that you are energetically can be used to seek and find the greater heart of All That Is. That is what is meant by the statement that "spirit can be used to seek spirit".

[9eagle9]

When people began to have divinity expressed through them without attempting to corral it with the mind and assign it values of 'God, (any god) omnipotent, consciousness, good, bad, judging, rewarding etc--the true definition of non conditional--and cease arranging divine source, the creation matrix, into a thought form, they will have an easier time of it when they just allow its expression without judgement. We get too firmly fixed or corded into thought forms where Source is concerned we cord into the thoughtform and not Source itself.

Humility is not modesty its simply allowing divinity to work through one without judging it or assigning values to it.

[Sebastion]

Exactly 9eagle9. By cording in or giving energy to the idea of what divine love really is within you, you are directly tapping right back in to you as the source. If you really, really want to know, what better place is there to go but to yourself as the source. It's just a matter of how badly you need to know for yourself.





When people began to have divinity expressed through them without attempting to corral it with the mind and assign it values of 'God, (any god) omnipotent, consciousness, good, bad, judging, rewarding etc--the true definition of non conditional--and cease arranging divine source, the creation matrix, into a thought form, they will have an easier time of it when they just allow its expression without judgement. We get too firmly fixed or corded into thought forms where Source is concerned we cord into the thoughtform and not Source itself.

Humility is not modesty its simply allowing divinity to work through one without judging it or assigning values to it.

[Shadowman]

Hi Sebastion,

Your OP was excellent, thankyou for that. I especially liked;

The initial error begins when your identity becomes wrapped up in an idea or group of ideas and not the source from which the idea was given birth!

So true, and here is an example of one of those ideas;

Needless to say, I ain't there yet but I am damn sure working on it!

This I, “that ain’t there yet”, the same I that is “damn sure working on it”, is the same I, that is necessary for, and precedes, all ideas and imaginations and illusions. And it’s greatest illusion is it’s own apparent existence.

You have an excellent understanding, all that is required is the final step.

To share the “final step” may be viewed, from the reader’s perspective, as me going out on a limb, for there are few who will understand, fewer who take the leap, and of the rare ones that do, fewer still who “appear” to continue to function as a separate entity, and act as lighthouses for those attempting to cross the ocean of illusion. So I open myself to misunderstandings and judgement (at least from from the readers viewpoint, lol ;)). Take or leave what follows as you like. If it resonates with you, great, if not, great also. All paths eventually converge at the summit anyway.

Many advanced seekers have no difficulty recognizing that the universe of shifting energies surrounding them (aka Anicca) is maya/samsara/illusion. Especially upon having direct experience of that eternal awareness which is the detached observer of “the show”, and which is accompanied by a profound sense of oneness and heightened energy in the body. This is often experienced in meditation, or even just being at one with a beautiful sunset or in any beautiful natural setting.

What often isn't recognized though, is that the subjective "I" within the waking and dream states is also an illusion.

The last step, and this will be difficult for many, is the complete dissolution of any separate relative point of observation ie the relative thinking self, be it through the 5 senses of the body or any conceptual construct of the mind. This includes any and all sense of a separate you, as a body, as an ego, as an energy form (with or without connecting cords), and yes, even as a soul.

You are not “an extension” of, or a “creation of”, or a “part of” God/Supreme Being/All That Is, within which, in Reality, there is no division or separation. You are the Supreme Being, full stop. In actuality, even to say you have always been that , and always will be, is a corruption. You do not exist in time and space, time and space (and mind) “appear” to exist within you.

So in essence and in truth you are already free, or enlightened. The enlightenment which occurs in the mind/self/ego, happens when the mind is perfectly still, when the reflection of the Self as I AM in the mind is perfectly clear and undisturbed, like a full moon reflecting on a calm lake. Then the awakening occurs.

The last step is not a step your ego “takes”. It happens mystically and magically and spontaneously. The perfect reflection in the mind ie the pure unattached I AM witness awareness, simply dissolves like a mirage disappearing/merging into the Self/All That Is/Totality. This is Anatta (no relative self), the undifferentiated Self, Nirvana, The Kingdom of Heaven, Sat Chit Ananda. This is the absolute freedom spoken of by realized teachers, who have “seen” the whole of the moon...

Namaste,
tim


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7AR0-FRro

[Bo Atkinson]

For me what might have been getting my cording lesson for better life was not scheduled or expected, but in spite of it all. Very hard neighborhood, my first apartment alone, in NYC at age 18, 1967, seeking my fortune. I seemed to have reached out in dreaming, for knowledge or destiny or something, which was appearing as a door, almost within reach, then... Bang, i awoke, to what sounded like gunshots down the hall, but there was no telling for sure or grapevine at all. Just perspiration, excitations and amazement for having looked at that image or dream or fate. Around the same time, a much more elevating experience, without explanations, without human teachers, arrived... All to the effect of opening awarenesses for evolvement in many ways.

Thanks all for sharing in an upbeat thread and thanks Sebastion for making it start and thrive. My thought is to add another variety of experience, as we might all be where we are, supposed to be.

[Sebastion]

Hi Tim:

I thank you deeply for your post and it was "heartfelt". You are obviously a very deep and gentle Soul. It really and truly is unfortunate at best, that we are reduced to "language" and "semantics".

I understand completely what you have said and agree deeply. But I have refrained until now, for my own reasons, to mention that I merged with the Heart of the One, 24 years ago. It was the culmination of full Cosmic Consciousness and the final step. The impact that it has had upon my life has been indescribably profound. I have been unable and unwilling to speak about it publicly until just recently.

This thread is about giving back to the One some semblance of what was given me in the only way I can, here and now. This thread was never intended to be about me, but it was intended to show you a way to find out for yourself. I know that it works because it was the way I found out through direct experience myself many years ago. My Blessings unto you my friend!





Hi Sebastion,

Your OP was excellent, thankyou for that. I especially liked;

The initial error begins when your identity becomes wrapped up in an idea or group of ideas and not the source from which the idea was given birth!

So true, and here is an example of one of those ideas;

Needless to say, I ain't there yet but I am damn sure working on it!

This I, “that ain’t there yet”, the same I that is “damn sure working on it”, is the same I, that is necessary for, and precedes, all ideas and imaginations and illusions. And it’s greatest illusion is it’s own apparent existence.

You have an excellent understanding, all that is required is the final step.

To share the “final step” may be viewed, from the reader’s perspective, as me going out on a limb, for there are few who will understand, fewer who take the leap, and of the rare ones that do, fewer still who “appear” to continue to function as a separate entity, and act as lighthouses for those attempting to cross the ocean of illusion. So I open myself to misunderstandings and judgement, from the readers viewpoint, lol ;). Take or leave what follows as you like. If it resonates with you, great, if not, great also. All paths eventually converge at the summit anyway.

Many advanced seekers have no difficulty recognizing that the universe of shifting energies surrounding them is maya/samsara/illusion. Especially upon having direct experience of that eternal awareness which is the detached observer of “the show”, and which is accompanied by a profound sense of oneness and heightened energy in the body. This is often experienced in meditation, or even just being at one with a beautiful sunset or in any beautiful natural setting.

The last step, and this will be difficult for many, is the complete dissolution of any separate relative point of observation ie the self, be it through the 5 senses of the body or any conceptual construct of the mind. This includes any and all sense of a separate you, as a body, as an ego, as an energy form (with or without connecting cords), and yes, even as a soul.

You are not “an extension” of, or a “creation of”, or a “part of” God/Supreme Being/All That Is, within which, in Reality, there is no division or separation. In actuality, even to say you have always been that , and always will be, is a corruption. You do not exist in time and space, time and space (and mind) “appear” to exist within you.

So in essence and in truth you are already free, or enlightened. The enlightenment which occurs in the mind/self/ego, happens when the mind is perfectly still, when the reflection of the I AM in the mind is perfectly clear and undisturbed, like a full moon reflecting on a calm lake. Then the awakening occurs.

The last step is not a step your ego “takes”. It happens mystically and magically and spontaneously. The perfect reflection in the mind ie the pure unattached witness awareness, simply dissolves like a mirage disappearing into the totality. This is the absolute freedom spoken of by realized teachers, who have “seen” the whole of the moon...

Namaste,
tim


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7AR0-FRro

[Shadowman]

That's wonderful Sebastion,

Glad to hear it. It is quite a challenge expressing the inexpressible isn't it.
Realizing the Self is one "thing", putting it into words is like trying to fit the universe
into a thimble,

Much Love,
tim

[Sebastion]

Hi Wavydome and thanks for your post! You also have my deepest respects for having survived alone in NYC and being 18 to boot. My hat is off to you! lol

I have found that your statement about being where you are supposed to be has caused me much frustration in years gone by. It obviously is the truth. You are where you are because that's where you are supposed to be. Never have found a way around it but it hasn't stopped me from trying anyway, lol!







For me what might have been getting my cording lesson for better life was not scheduled or expected, but in spite of it all. Very hard neighborhood, my first apartment alone, in NYC at age 18, 1967, seeking my fortune. I seemed to have reached out in dreaming, for knowledge or destiny or something, which was appearing as a door, almost within reach, then... Bang, i awoke, to what sounded like gunshots down the hall, but there was no telling for sure or grapevine at all. Just perspiration, excitations and amazement for having looked at that image or dream or fate. Around the same time, a much more elevating experience, without explanations, without human teachers, arrived... All to the effect of opening awarenesses for evolvement in many ways.

Thanks all for sharing in an upbeat thread and thanks Sebastion for making it start and thrive. My thought is to add another variety of experience, as we might all be where we are, supposed to be.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Hunh. Great post, and very coincidental for me:

I've been investigating the Rosicrucian belief system recently, and just last night discovered that one of the iterations of their presence was the Knights Templar, who adopted the motto "I Am". I'd provide a link but there are just far too many sites providing info on this fellowship. Just google some combination of [ cathars templars rosicrucians Rosenkreutz ]

The quest continues!

[Sebastion]

Hi Fellow Aspirant:

The truth really is that you need look no farther than in your own bathroom mirror with the understanding presented in the OP....The quest can be awesome if you enjoy learning. Enjoy and pause every now and then to smell the roses!





Hunh. Great post, and very coincidental for me:

I've been investigating the Rosicrucian belief system recently, and just last night discovered that one of the iterations of their presence was the Knights Templar, who adopted the motto "I Am". I'd provide a link but there are just far too many sites providing info on this fellowship. Just google some combination of [ cathars templars rosicrucians Rosenkreutz ]

The quest continues!

[Sebastion]

To understand and implement what has been stated on this thread in your life can and will begin to create change within your life and personal well being. To pull your belief in old ideas completely and instead give birth and life to ideas which are empowering to you is the only way to go. Remember, you are the one who gives life and energy to ideas; you are the source, you get to be the "cause" to experience your own effect! And it all takes place within the privacy of your own space; you need never tell another what you are doing!

There are times when silence really is golden, but that is for you to decide. Using the process will teach you by direct experience how you have probably attached yourself to far lesser ideas about yourself simply because you didn't know any better. Now you have the wherewithall to make those changes effectively. There is no place left to go but into higher frequency ideas and elevated awareness as a result. But that too is your decision. Make it as much fun as possible during the journey here!

[Sebastion]

The concept as presented in the OP is a "cut to the chase" presentation and contains little to zero fluff. I had to sort through a huge pile of books, seminars, time and money in my day. Sorting through and passed the charlatans and BS was nearly a full time hobby for a time. It was ever the all wise unknowingness leading the all wise unknowingness. The only difference was the leaders were getting the big bucks while the followers were/are getting fleeced. Hence my tendency to give it to you straight. My apologies to you for the missing flowery words as I realize that there are some who prefer it served in that way.

It is of interest to note here that Anthony Robbins always said that it takes 21 days for anything to become a habit. I heard a neurosurgeon say once that it takes 21 days for a neuron to come online.
Go figure..lol

Point being that just the reading and understanding of the information on this thread without any actual practice of it won't do you much good. Remember that no one can do for you, what only you can do for yourself.

[Sebastion]

Tim has stated, on the Budhism in a nutshell thread, the following: "Awareness can exist without thoughts, yet thoughts cannot exist without awareness. Awareness without personification or identification with temporary forms is your true self." That is truth itself. Thank you Tim!

To me, that is also essentially the essence of the great, impersonal masculine/feminine Mind of the All In All, the One/Source Mind. What lies "beyond" Mind? I am here to tell you that the Great Central Heart of the All In All/One/Source lies at the center of All That Is. It is the great central hub, the Alpha and Omega. IT is Love Incarnate, so exquisitely whole and complete and completely whole, so radically deep and profound, that it cannot be grasped by the human imagination, simply not possible. Words are utterly useless here, but now you have an insight.

It is from that Great Central Heart all of us came. It is interesting to note here that in the sublime regions around the Heart of One, that all Souls, Beings exist (as I perceived it) in those regions were sustained by the Great Love permeating, radiating from the Great Heart, not too different from us living on oxygen here. That is what I found beyond Mind.

[another bob]

“Life moves, undulates, breathes in and out, contracting and expanding. This is its nature, the nature of what is. Whatever is, is on the move. Nothing remains the same for very long. The mind wants everything to stop so that it can get its foothold, find its position, so it can figure out how to control life. Through the pursuit of material things, knowledge, ideas, beliefs, opinions, emotional states, spiritual states, and relationships, the mind seeks to find a secure position from which to operate.

The mind seeks to nail life down and get it to stop moving and changing. When this doesn’t work, the mind begins to seek the changeless, the eternal, something that doesn’t move. But the mind of thought is itself an expression of life’s movement and so must always be in movement itself. When there is thought, that thought is always moving and changing.

There is really no such thing as thought. There is only thinking, so thought which is always moving (as thinking) cannot apprehend the changeless. When thought enters into the changeless it goes silent. When thought goes silent, the thinker, the psychological “me”, the image-produced self, disappears. Suddenly, it is gone. You, as an idea, are gone. Awareness remains alone.

There is no one who is aware. Awareness itself is itself. You are now no longer the thought, nor the thinker, nor someone who is aware. Only Awareness remains, as itself. Then, within awareness, thought moves. Within the changeless, change happens. Now Awareness expresses itself. Awareness is always expressing itself: as life, as change, as thought, feeling, bodies, humans, plants, trees, cars, etc. The changeless is changing. The eternal is living and dying. The formless is form. The form is formless. This is nothing the mind could ever have imagined.”

~ Adyashanti

[Sebastion]

Thank you AnotherBob for your post. I cannot say that I disagree in content with anything Adyashanti has said and there is no conflict period. I do know that there is one thing we all can be in complete agreement with-Adyshanti, you and I are all human beings. We each get to take a look/experience what we choose and decide accordingly.



“Life moves, undulates, breathes in and out, contracting and expanding. This is its nature, the nature of what is. Whatever is, is on the move. Nothing remains the same for very long. The mind wants everything to stop so that it can get its foothold, find its position, so it can figure out how to control life. Through the pursuit of material things, knowledge, ideas, beliefs, opinions, emotional states, spiritual states, and relationships, the mind seeks to find a secure position from which to operate.

The mind seeks to nail life down and get it to stop moving and changing. When this doesn’t work, the mind begins to seek the changeless, the eternal, something that doesn’t move. But the mind of thought is itself an expression of life’s movement and so must always be in movement itself. When there is thought, that thought is always moving and changing.

There is really no such thing as thought. There is only thinking, so thought which is always moving (as thinking) cannot apprehend the changeless. When thought enters into the changeless it goes silent. When thought goes silent, the thinker, the psychological “me”, the image-produced self, disappears. Suddenly, it is gone. You, as an idea, are gone. Awareness remains alone.

There is no one who is aware. Awareness itself is itself. You are now no longer the thought, nor the thinker, nor someone who is aware. Only Awareness remains, as itself. Then, within awareness, thought moves. Within the changeless, change happens. Now Awareness expresses itself. Awareness is always expressing itself: as life, as change, as thought, feeling, bodies, humans, plants, trees, cars, etc. The changeless is changing. The eternal is living and dying. The formless is form. The form is formless. This is nothing the mind could ever have imagined.”

~ Adyashanti

[Sebastion]

In addition to my last post regarding the Great Heart of the One, I would like to add, that prior to the "merging", I was exposed, saw, experienced great Light, seemingly brighter than perhaps a million of our suns, so vast as to be incomprehensible in it's volume. I then was exposed to what appeared to be/could have been/was a Universe containing raw energy, seemingly enough to build universes without end. Keep in mind, all that was seen/experienced had to be translated into terms to fit my own human understanding. It was all a complete surprise to me, at this level. It surprised me to no end because the existence of Heart had never once occurred in my thinking!

I would offer this understanding for one reason and one reason only. You are not some wandering peasant living on a grain of sand in some far flung and forgotten region of nowhere. It would seem that all and sundry would keep the knowledge of your own birthright from you at any cost. It truly is your birthright. We have no business on our knees. Get up! Stand in your own Light and begin to claim what is rightfully and has always been, yours!

[Davy]

Thanks Sebastion, very true as i have realized in turn first you have to think something, then from that comes your reality as we are all truly creators of our own lives and realities, an Idea then can blossom into reality from our very own minds. First think it then create it. I think people have been conditioned to give their power away. Working in my green house has taught me this, If I did not plant the seeds and Imagine my garden then it would not be, because of my hard work and imagination i make my garden a reality, it is really quite an empowering Idea to know everything we experience starts in the mind!

[Sebastion]

Indeed Davy.....it is the entrance through which one must pass to begin claiming and standing up for all that you have always been. A wondrous adventure it is too!





Thanks Sebastion, very true as i have realized in turn first you have to think something, then from that comes your reality as we are all truly creators of our own lives and realities, an Idea then can blossom into reality from our very own minds. First think it then create it. I think people have been conditioned to give their power away. Working in my green house has taught me this, If I did not plant the seeds and Imagine my garden then it would not be, because of my hard work and imagination i make my garden a reality, it is really quite an empowering Idea to know everything we experience starts in the mind!

[Sebastion]

Another way in which this thread can be looked upon is that it is all about reclaiming your power as a truly sovereign being. In that context, I want to pass on a little "tool" which if you decide to use, will help you immensely. It's called "defying the deity". It's an interesting term and I took a liking to it long ago.

Defying the deity is the act of willfully getting off your knees to take back what belongs to you. It begins within you. Any thoughts, ideas that you carry which limit you in some way is the "deity" to be defied. When you decide you are ready to move beyond your perceived limits, that is defying the deity. It's a decision to willfully move forward even when someone tells you or one of your "ideas" tells you I can't.

If you really are serious about moving forward, defying the deity-defying all that would limit you-is a master tool to use, keep it sharp because you will need it. Keep it handy as you would a sword for battle. It cuts and severs "cords" quite handily.

There is a number of people who use this tool on the forum, knowingly or not, I cannot say. But there are at least two members who are masters at it and there is no doubt whatsoever, that they both know it!

[9eagle9]

Interesting comparisons Sebastion. When I made the decision to reclaim my self authority on all levels of my existence, I strangely enough, began receiving as swords and large knives as gifts. To the point that one could not dimiss recieving three swords or fancy ninja knives (the illegal ones) in as many days as a coincedence . I find it funny when I look back on it because the people who gifted them to me were people I really needed to discord from or otherwise represented people I needed to dis-cord from.

People serving my purpose.

People go insane when I say "you are serving my purpose' like I have some overt control over them. I admit I let them drive themselves insane with the thought because by that time they won't listen to reason because its their diety that's got issues. .

But at the same time I am serving someone elses purpose in the same fashion. I may not even be conscious of it . This emphasizes a very clear service to others paradigm that occurs effortlessly.


And that is an interesting comparison too. Our ideas become our Gods. Most of our interaction with God until we know or become aware are 'ideas' or constructs of God or Source. The ideas and beliefs rule our life. To watch people who are corded in to many different dieties (you can't serve two masters!) its interesting to sit and observe because they will unconsciously express what dieties they are serving by how their gods all contradict themselves. They don't see the contradictions because at any give time they are under the total sway of any given idea or deity. Put some very hard power behind that and you have multi-personality person. We call it possession when it becomes this rigid and by this time something external has followed along to cord in there to give it all some leverage.

The freedom to think whatever we like comes from cutting the idea from the emotion associated with it. Fear of God is an idea with an attached feeling. Get rid of the feeling and idea of Fear of God is just a meaningless thought that has no power. The wrath of God is a very powerful concept as we have spent a lot of time putting energy on the thought. Even people who have no interest in the Bible see what a powerful article of conjuration it is simply because they see the 'power invested in it'. People cord into the Bible.

When the OT and NT God became unpopular we transfered their power to a god called Karma to dispense reward and punishment. Karma is another diety we attach to and cord into. People often tell me I must not have very good karma because my life frightens THEM and I'm like "that's okay because it doesn't matter...' no more than if I had very good karma.

The Bible is all about Karma. One reaps what is sown. What is sown are diety seeds.

In the old days before the government started running martial laws, a minister would hold a Bible and marry people based on the power invested in him by the Bible, and the Bible did have power...but only because people invested their power or energy in it. Now its "The Power invested in me by the 'state'." Which has little power obviosly to keep a marriage intact if the escalating number of divorces says anything. Someone gave their power away. Transferance of power.

The only reason why the US government entertains Christianity in the first place even though the US power brokers are invested with satanic devices and dieties . The guv notices how much power is invested in the Bible. The idea of Satanism is what gives it power. When looked at with clarity that is a diety which is rather pitiful in an amusing way like watching four year olds attempting to create a creme brulee and pheasant under glass with Play-dough and finger paints. They are only there because of the power we invested in them. We unwittingly invest our power in satanic energies.


We do not serve each other's purpose in cording. When we disencord others begin to serve others in a way that is without any form of energy loss whatsoever. We may not even be conscious of it.

My daughter recently got frustrated at me about the concept of cording wanting to know what cord is responsible for allowign me to text her just as she's about to do something she's not supposed to be doing: "What R U Dooooooing?"


The same cord that allows her to know that I'm distracted, tired or otherwise preoccupied to the point that if she pushes the envelope a little I might not be so apt to text her and inquire as to what she's doing. Works both ways.

[Sebastion]

With your post here 9eagle9, it becomes abundantly obvious how each of us enslave ourselves on one hand and how entire societies become enslaved on the other. Enslaved essentially to what? An "idea" and or group of ideas. In reality, that is all that it is....How do we begin to get out of this mess? It starts with each one of us by learning how your own ideas have enslaved you. When one begins to recognize that and begins to "defy the deities" within themselves, you will then realize that you have the master keys and knowledge to begin freeing yourself from all that has limited you and kept you in your self-imposed prison cell.....





Interesting comparisons Sebastion. When I made the decision to reclaim my self authority on all levels of my existence, I strangely enough, began receiving as swords and large knives as gifts. To the point that one could not dimiss recieving three swords or fancy ninja knives (the illegal ones) in as many days as a coincedence . I find it funny when I look back on it because the people who gifted them to me were people I really needed to discord from or otherwise represented people I needed to dis-cord from.

People serving my purpose.

People go insane when I say "you are serving my purpose' like I have some overt control over them. I admit I let them drive themselves insane with the thought because by that time they won't listen to reason because its their diety that's got issues. .

But at the same time I am serving someone elses purpose in the same fashion. I may not even be conscious of it . This emphasizes a very clear service to others paradigm that occurs effortlessly.


And that is an interesting comparison too. Our ideas become our Gods. Most of our interaction with God until we know or become aware are 'ideas' or constructs of God or Source. The ideas and beliefs rule our life. To watch people who are corded in to many different dieties (you can't serve two masters!) its interesting to sit and observe because they will unconsciously express what dieties they are serving by how their gods all contradict themselves. They don't see the contradictions because at any give time they are under the total sway of any given idea or deity. Put some very hard power behind that and you have multi-personality person. We call it possession when it becomes this rigid and by this time something external has followed along to cord in there to give it all some leverage.

The freedom to think whatever we like comes from cutting the idea from the emotion associated with it. Fear of God is an idea with an attached feeling. Get rid of the feeling and idea of Fear of God is just a meaningless thought that has no power. The wrath of God is a very powerful concept as we have spent a lot of time putting energy on the thought. Even people who have no interest in the Bible see what a powerful article of conjuration it is simply because they see the 'power invested in it'. People cord into the Bible.

When the OT and NT God became unpopular we transfered their power to a god called Karma to dispense reward and punishment. Karma is another diety we attach to and cord into. People often tell me I must not have very good karma because my life frightens THEM and I'm like "that's okay because it doesn't matter...' no more than if I had very good karma.

The Bible is all about Karma. One reaps what is sown. What is sown are diety seeds.

In the old days before the government started running martial laws, a minister would hold a Bible and marry people based on the power invested in him by the Bible, and the Bible did have power...but only because people invested their power or energy in it. Now its "The Power invested in me by the 'state'." Which has little power obviosly to keep a marriage intact if the escalating number of divorces says anything. Someone gave their power away. Transferance of power.

The only reason why the US government entertains Christianity in the first place even though the US power brokers are invested with satanic devices and dieties . The guv notices how much power is invested in the Bible. The idea of Satanism is what gives it power. When looked at with clarity that is a diety which is rather pitiful in an amusing way like watching four year olds attempting to create a creme brulee and pheasant under glass with Play-dough and finger paints. They are only there because of the power we invested in them. We unwittingly invest our power in satanic energies.


We do not serve each other's purpose in cording. When we disencord others begin to serve others in a way that is without any form of energy loss whatsoever. We may not even be conscious of it.

My daughter recently got frustrated at me about the concept of cording wanting to know what cord is responsible for allowign me to text her just as she's about to do something she's not supposed to be doing: "What R U Dooooooing?"


The same cord that allows her to know that I'm distracted, tired or otherwise preoccupied to the point that if she pushes the envelope a little I might not be so apt to text her and inquire as to what she's doing. Works both ways.

[Bo Atkinson]

Ah, that is an interesting concept Sebastion: "defying the deity"... For my own part however, born to two, secularized agnostics and buffeted between all persuasions, at levels beyond me, from a very early age... I very early leaned heavily towards a sort of scientific skepticism. Well unit it fell into it's own needs for internal debates with it's various divisions of theory and varied observations as well. I sort of dropped out with the so called string-theory in the 1990s. But more recently, see that they really do connect with so many spiritual-isms and ologies. So the terms are becoming more common. If we relate to others, on forums. So back to square one concerning deities, especially with the 'disclosure' ideas of ETs and whatnots being the original references, termed dieties. If one expects to exchange ideas with humans, encountered on forums like this one. The aspects of humility won me as a productive tactic for exchanging ideas. Whenever it is remembered in due course, at least. While the indiferent speculator in me raves on 24/7. Scientology was my ego-task-force-period, back in my NYC (1967+) which never produced fruit. On this note, Buckminster Fuller of geodesic and synergetics fame, of design science fame... He really got me to appreciate and admire his quote: "Dare to be naive". (Even though rigid people may take the sentence as an insult against them. It is not an insult, if one looks outside the box, or beyond all the yarns or cords of undue-bondages, etc... )

[Sebastion]

Hi Wavydome:

It will become quite apparent that when this process is used the box you were in will get bigger and bigger until there is no more box, no more prison cell and no more limitations-you are free.....





Ah, that is an interesting concept Sebastion: "defying the deity"... For my own part however, born to two, secularized agnostics and buffeted between all persuasions, at levels beyond me, from a very early age... I very early leaned heavily towards a sort of scientific skepticism. Well unit it fell into it's own needs for internal debates with it's various divisions of theory and varied observations as well. I sort of dropped out with the so called string-theory in the 1990s. But more recently, see that they really do connect with so many spiritual-isms and ologies. So the terms are becoming more common. If we relate to others, on forums. So back to square one concerning deities, especially with the 'disclosure' ideas of ETs and whatnots being the original references, termed dieties. If one expects to exchange ideas with humans, encountered on forums like this one. The aspects of humility won me as a productive tactic for exchanging ideas. Whenever it is remembered in due course, at least. While the indiferent speculator in me raves on 24/7. Scientology was my ego-task-force-period, back in my NYC (1967+) which never produced fruit. On this note, Buckminster Fuller of geodesic and synergetics fame, of design science fame... He really got me to appreciate and admire his quote: "Dare to be naive". (Even though rigid people may take the sentence as an insult against them. It is not an insult, if one looks outside the box, or beyond all the yarns or cords of undue-bondages, etc... )

[Sebastion]

On this thread, I have tried to show as obviously and simply as I know how, that the keys to all understanding are on your side of the "door". Learning how to defy the deity-all those "things" that you see that would limit you-once transgressed, can never enslave you again. Why? Because recognition of it would be instantaneous and you will know automatically that "it" has no power over you.

You will find also, that as you free yourself up from all the BS, you will become a little more sovereign within, everyday. And you will start loving that about yourself, so much so that you will go for more of it with gusto and you will have the energy to accomplish it more quickly.

You will also become much more aware of how precious it is and guard against anything or anyone who would attempt to take it from you using words and mind-games. But that will be easy enough, for you will know that you have been there, seen that, done that-next!

[Delight]

On this thread, I have tried to show as obviously and simply as I know how, that the keys to all understanding are on your side of the "door". Learning how to defy the deity-all those "things" that you see that would limit you-once transgressed, can never enslave you again. Why? Because recognition of it would be instantaneous and you will know automatically that "it" has no power over you.

You will find also, that as you free yourself up from all the BS, you will become a little more sovereign within, everyday. And you will start loving that about yourself, so much so that you will go for more of it with gusto and you will have the energy to accomplish it more quickly.

You will also become much more aware of how precious it is and guard against anything or anyone who would attempt to take it from you using words and mind-games. But that will be easy enough, for you will know that you have been there, seen that, done that-next!

No one can give this capacity or take it away. But what "bothers" me about dealing with the rest of the world is that people can make "gods" of so many things. Yes, to state it bluntly, we do transgress and deification and the "deities" are Soooo numerous and alliegiance is soooo tenacious that one has to stand being alone in the experience, literally stand quite alone.

[Sebastion]

It fundamentally is an alone process, Delight. The more "deities" you defy and move beyond, the more alone the process becomes. It is and will be a departure from the herd mentality, a departure from all the "cow paths". You must blaze your own trail, find YOUR way that is unique to you, and you do have one, most assuredly so. Following where the herd goes will only get you more of what has always been and more of what is already known.

I departed from the herd when I was 28 years old, deciding to take the road less traveled or when necessary, make a new one. I have had more then one lucid dream where the path before me split. I could walk the valley path, which was quite clear-cut or choose to climb higher up the mountain where I could view all while traveling. I always chose the higher path. That was my way. Happy trails!

[Delight]

Happy trails!

Being alone is not necessarily lonely. It is impossible though to live without love.
May I share something that has been one of my favorites?

Pnp7J4EdOeQ

[Sebastion]

and a beautiful video and story it is! Thank you, Delight!







Happy trails!

Being alone is not necessarily lonely. It is impossible though to live without love.
May I share something that has been one of my favorites?

Pnp7J4EdOeQ

[ljwheat]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43373-The-next-Jesus-Christ-will-only-suffer-for-the-monks-and-nuns-of-this-world..&p=462767&viewfull=1#post462767

"""Codependency (or codependence, co-narcissism or inverted narcissism) is unhealthy love and a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that harm one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.[1] Codependency can occur in any type of relationship, including family, work, friendship, and also romantic, peer or community relationships.[1] Codependency may also be characterized by denial, low self-esteem, excessive compliance, or control patterns.[1] Narcissists are considered to be natural magnets for the codependent."""

Why would a King, commission a Catholic church to put together a book in a manner that would forever enslave those who fallow its words into a life of codependency. By a narcissistic God and a codependent son of God.

When I took possession of this human form, I did not consult these kings, gods or sons of gods. These beings are trapped in the forth dimension were they have been trying to hide there identity in love and light since we started arriving in mass from out side the higher dimensions they seem to be trapped in. These bed time story’s of old are still capturing and enslaving the minds of the young to codependency, then children raising children to the point of I will kill you if you do not believe my Narcissistic ways to the letter. Passed on from generation to generation.


The 4th Dimension, were these beings of light emanate, are loving, and caring and do miracles, and magic to fill our every narcissistic want’s and belief’s to the letter. Hook line and sinker. “We came from a higher place then these so called Gods and savior’s the grass is greener on the other side of 3D, I’m God believe in me, your nothing, Codependent slavery smoke and mirror’s 4D demy Gods.” Think about it-- if I am eternal:? ”no beginning, no end.” What pray tell do I need with a God, or a son of a God. I am over a God in my core being, above were these Gods say they need us to believe in. These bed time story’s have put over 90% of the world to sleep for century’s, few are awake to the title of the Ancient Ones, Sure ET may have played with DNA ,the house that Jack built, the essence that took possession of this house came from beyond even there grasp or the 4th playgrounds and 3d Chemistry sets.


The vase the flowers are displayed in, can not change the flower that’s placed in its care. It will always be a flower that I am no matter what label its given. We are the Ancient Ones, let go of the story’s --- remember how you began this possession, this ride. You brought yourself here and now, --- they didn’t --- remember? There is no beginning or end. (just story’s from the 4th dimension of love and light) and you came in from out side of all that fantasy smoke and mirror’s. Too a world of shiny glass and a hole lot of smoke.:gossip:

:tape:IMHO I may be totally wrong.:crazy:

[Sebastion]

Methinks ljwheat, you know that you are right....excellent post it is...

It reminds me of a question that I had asked of Pie N' eal in one of his earlier threads. That question consisted of whether or not he thought that his incarnation here had anything to do with any Budhist teachings he had received prior to coming here. He really never answered that question. I was at the time looking forward to some fascinating debate, conversation. Not contentious confrontation but a sincere heartfelt sharing of the minds, as it were. Gotta say I loved the guy and hated to see him leave.





http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43373-The-next-Jesus-Christ-will-only-suffer-for-the-monks-and-nuns-of-this-world..&p=462767&viewfull=1#post462767

"""Codependency (or codependence, co-narcissism or inverted narcissism) is unhealthy love and a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that harm one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.[1] Codependency can occur in any type of relationship, including family, work, friendship, and also romantic, peer or community relationships.[1] Codependency may also be characterized by denial, low self-esteem, excessive compliance, or control patterns.[1] Narcissists are considered to be natural magnets for the codependent."""

Why would a King, commission a Catholic church to put together a book in a manner that would forever enslave those who fallow its words into a life of codependency. By a narcissistic God and a codependent son of God.

When I took possession of this human form, I did not consult these kings, gods or sons of gods. These beings are trapped in the forth dimension were they have been trying to hide there identity in love and light since we started arriving in mass from out side the higher dimensions they seem to be trapped in. These bed time story’s of old are still capturing and enslaving the minds of the young to codependency, then children raising children to the point of I will kill you if you do not believe my Narcissistic ways to the letter. Passed on from generation to generation.


The 4th Dimension, were these beings of light emanate, are loving, and caring and do miracles, and magic to fill our every narcissistic want’s and belief’s to the letter. Hook line and sinker. “We came from a higher place then these so called Gods and savior’s the grass is greener on the other side of 3D, I’m God believe in me, your nothing, Codependent slavery smoke and mirror’s 4D demy Gods.” Think about it-- if I am eternal:? ”no beginning, no end.” What pray tell do I need with a God, or a son of a God. I am over a God in my core being, above were these Gods say they need us to believe in. These bed time story’s have put over 90% of the world to sleep for century’s, few are awake to the title of the Ancient Ones, Sure ET may have played with DNA ,the house that Jack built, the essence that took possession of this house came from beyond even there grasp or the 4th playgrounds and 3d Chemistry sets.


The vase the flowers are displayed in, can not change the flower that’s placed in its care. It will always be a flower that I am no matter what label its given. We are the Ancient Ones, let go of the story’s --- remember how you began this possession, this ride. You brought yourself here and now, --- they didn’t --- remember? There is no beginning or end. (just story’s from the 4th dimension of love and light) and you came in from out side of all that fantasy smoke and mirror’s. Too a world of shiny glass and a hole lot of smoke.:gossip:

:tape:IMHO I may be totally wrong.:crazy:

[Kelly]

To blindly follow another, to think that fake love and light, is real bona fide love, is to forget your own beautiful real self!
To put your faith and trust in some unseen beings, who profess to know it all and want you to follow them, is to give your own beautiful real self over to them, why would people do that?
If people really looked at themselves, then they would see themselves for who they are, and realise, that there is NO-ONE, who can tell them what to do, no fake shiny beings who are trapped in the 4th dimension no more than us, they are just manipulating people, and the sad thing is, people dont realise that!
People give away their own power far too easily to beings who profess to be love and light, when the truth is they are not, they are just using people, i wish people could see this, and stand up in their own power, for themselves!!:peace:

[Sebastion]

Indeed so Kelly and that is one of the essential reasons for this thread and why "defying the deity" aspect becomes so important in clearing the way, so that you of yourself, can begin to dissolve, cut through all the smoke and mirrors. Thank you for your post!





To blindly follow another, to think that fake love and light, is real bona fide love, is to forget your own beautiful real self!
To put your faith and trust in some unseen beings, who profess to know it all and want you to follow them, is to give your own beautiful real self over to them, why would people do that?
If people really looked at themselves, then they would see themselves for who they are, and realise, that there is NO-ONE, who can tell them what to do, no fake shiny beings who are trapped in the 4th dimension no more than us, they are just manipulating people, and the sad thing is, people dont realise that!
People give away their own power far too easily to beings who profess to be love and light, when the truth is they are not, they are just using people, i wish people could see this, and stand up in their own power, for themselves!!:peace:

[9eagle9]

Co dependency is an epidemic in the States...so you are on to something. The US is declared a Christian nation so it begins to add up when one does the math.

That is just Christianity, other Abrahamic based religions promote the same sort of schism. People speak about the suppression of women in Muslim marriages. The woman is the co-dependent and the husband serves as the Narcissist.

So now we are talking about at least half the world or more (more me thinks, hard to know without coffee) that are Muslims and Christians, more the than half the world and more like 2/3's are practicing co dependents. Epidemic.

Look that the structures of the PTB , that may be a further reflection of Narc to Co dependent relationship.

Throw this into the equation. Most of our new thought and new age religions are basically remanufactred versions of Christianity (if they aren't re-arranging the furniture on the Buddhist Titanic) that you noted above, that does indeed promote co-dependency. The core values are the same and they all revolve around co dependent behaviors. Meaning most new age or new thought philosophies are re-furbished co dependent based Christianity. Someone or something is coming to save you or ascend you.

A very large program of energy vampirism.

Narcissists are pretty easy to spot (if you are not a codependent...lol) but co-dependency can be more subtle.

If a God says you 'need' to believe in them, that is co depencency and that would be a God that is construct, or God created from thoughtform. Most philosophies that venerate a 'service to others' paradigm are peddling co-dependency. You are not worthy unless you are serving. This creates herd and slave mentality. Serving quickly turns into servitude. Any wonder we are slaves to the system. Religion is a psychology all on it's own. Create a population of co-dependents and rule the world!

Need is the driver, the generator for Co-dependency. Thats why they are called needy people. Need and scarcity are pumped into all system from religion to advertising.

The need to be needed is co-dependency.

Co-dependents enter relationships to be 'saved' or validated.

The relationships of codependents survive only because one is a martyr, scapegoat or the one crucified or sacrificed in the relationship. They are in servitude serving the narcissist who is the 'god' in the relationship.

I have that co-dependents are intially attracted to me because like the Narc I won't fulfill their emotional neediness-but for different reasons. Once I don't get into the control drama with them they get 'hurt' and wander off to someone who will actually abuse them.

The narc withholds or distributes reward and punishment to the person who is the slave in the relationship.

When Co-dependency evolves into self medication or what the uninspired call drug or alcohol abuse the most popular co-dependency centers use Christian philosophy to help them cure....their co-dependency...lol. My friend who has been a sponsor in AA says its getting difficult to find AA centers that stick to the more neutural 'higher power' philosophy in the organization and its becoming overtly Christian--co dependency treating co-dependency.

The number one physical deteration dis-ease in co dependents are MS, and Fibromyalgia. When someone claims they have MS I don't look at their body I look at their relationships and what role they are playing. FM is becoming epidemic in the US as well along with similar neurological to muscular disorders.

Even pedophilia is a form of co-dependency.

Co-dependents don't have respect for personal space . Like the narc its uncomfortable for them to not be acknowledged. Who better go out and bang on doors on the weekend to 'spread the word'. Church knockers. Notice how they never apologize for interuppting your nap, your dinner etc. You could be performing CPR on someone and they'd be waving pamphlets in your face...lol. How you can't get them off the doorstep and they are entirely without shame or remorse that perhaps they've interrupted something. Co-dependent. Pay attention to me!

For people who know me well they know my story of how two church knockers broke into my apartment to 'save' me. Forced entry saving in the name of Jesus. The authorities were between a rock and hard place on that one, because you can't punish Christians (that's Christian persecution) but breaking into one's home isn't something they can support either. I was advised to 'remember they meant well' to which I responpsed. "I mean well, can I break into their home and teach their children witchcraft?"

Oh...nooooo

Co-dependents even have their own physical gestures, they don't touch, they grasp. Watch them sometime you will see what I mean. Why is hand shaking such a big deal. Its the secret hand shake of the Army of Co-dependents (kidding...maybe...who knows I may be right...lol)

People who are on a authentic spiritual journey are really recovered or recovering from Co-Dependency when you get right down to it.



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43373-The-next-Jesus-Christ-will-only-suffer-for-the-monks-and-nuns-of-this-world..&p=462767&viewfull=1#post462767

"""Codependency (or codependence, co-narcissism or inverted narcissism) is unhealthy love and a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that harm one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.[1] Codependency can occur in any type of relationship, including family, work, friendship, and also romantic, peer or community relationships.[1] Codependency may also be characterized by denial, low self-esteem, excessive compliance, or control patterns.[1] Narcissists are considered to be natural magnets for the codependent."""

Why would a King, commission a Catholic church to put together a book in a manner that would forever enslave those who fallow its words into a life of codependency. By a narcissistic God and a codependent son of God.

When I took possession of this human form, I did not consult these kings, gods or sons of gods. These beings are trapped in the forth dimension were they have been trying to hide there identity in love and light since we started arriving in mass from out side the higher dimensions they seem to be trapped in. These bed time story’s of old are still capturing and enslaving the minds of the young to codependency, then children raising children to the point of I will kill you if you do not believe my Narcissistic ways to the letter. Passed on from generation to generation.


The 4th Dimension, were these beings of light emanate, are loving, and caring and do miracles, and magic to fill our every narcissistic want’s and belief’s to the letter. Hook line and sinker. “We came from a higher place then these so called Gods and savior’s the grass is greener on the other side of 3D, I’m God believe in me, your nothing, Codependent slavery smoke and mirror’s 4D demy Gods.” Think about it-- if I am eternal:? ”no beginning, no end.” What pray tell do I need with a God, or a son of a God. I am over a God in my core being, above were these Gods say they need us to believe in. These bed time story’s have put over 90% of the world to sleep for century’s, few are awake to the title of the Ancient Ones, Sure ET may have played with DNA ,the house that Jack built, the essence that took possession of this house came from beyond even there grasp or the 4th playgrounds and 3d Chemistry sets.


The vase the flowers are displayed in, can not change the flower that’s placed in its care. It will always be a flower that I am no matter what label its given. We are the Ancient Ones, let go of the story’s --- remember how you began this possession, this ride. You brought yourself here and now, --- they didn’t --- remember? There is no beginning or end. (just story’s from the 4th dimension of love and light) and you came in from out side of all that fantasy smoke and mirror’s. Too a world of shiny glass and a hole lot of smoke.:gossip:

:tape:IMHO I may be totally wrong.:crazy:

[ljwheat]

Here is a clip I happened to come across, that give example of the 4th Dimensional play ground who continue to whisper into man’s ear’s, trying to convince use they have power greater than ours. Ha fat chance. The game is up, we know who they are. Nice show, but its all coming to a close. All is well. :cool: John XXX


YGD6msMCLBs

no more demy Gods or fallen angles will rule. :smash: :nono:

[sygh]

There is something else about waking up we grasp at times, and that is the doing of deeds. We are responsible for the things we do here. For instance, here in the U.S., we have a problem... we have pretty much destroyed our forest and our natural resources.

We simply could not see the forest for the trees. For so many years, people acted as if there was no end to the wealth of natural resources we enjoyed. To exist here is to work, in order to survive. Though paramount, that is a very narrow view of the world. The wake-up call (alarm) was given years and years ago but as a group of people, we chose to sleep through it in favor of ease. We followed leaders who told us what we wanted to hear. We lost our presence of mind. We had freedom but we squandered it. With freedom goes responsibility.

We abused our freedom, just like those who came before us. We simply did not consider the big picture. We put nothing before us that was greater than ourselves, not even the creator because we did not understand creation. It is so important to be honest with ourselves, in as mush as we demand honesty from others. Honesty is a form of love. To know that every living thing on this planet is interconnected and to respect that knowledge and then act upon that knowledge as a moral in one's very core is being free. In essence, as a whole, we were not free at all.

If we truely want to be free we must take responsibility for our actions. Part of that means we must make hard choices and then follow through with them as a large group of like-minded people. In this way we can make a difference.

Obtain your voice -and learn how to work in harmony. The vehicle you posess has everything you need.

[9eagle9]

You absolutely cannot have freedom if you can't manage yourself.

[sygh]

You absolutely cannot have freedom if you can't manage yourself.

Absolutely! It might start out with one person, or a small group of people with a vision but in order to make a difference, we must vow to work together. We need the central ideas written down, like a contract we would hold with one another. Manifesto is not a dirty word, though the unibomber put a bad connotation to it.

[sygh]

Consider Charles/Atticus/Steven... consider Bill and Kerry. Atticus said something I didn't appreciate, he inferred all of this was just a job... just a way to make a lot of money. And that there were many here stuck in the fog. Maybe it was a challenge.

Do you think that is what all of this is about? No, it is absolutely not. But to fool ourselves and say we do not need some sort of currency for trading is also not real. To worship the dollar, the dinero, or the rupel, as if the ownership of a pile of money gives someone the absolute right to shape, and ultimately rule the world is, as we have seen, a huge pile of stench for all creatures great -and small (like me ;-). But in order to get things done, something of worth must be obtained for work, unless we get to the lowest common denominator, that being survival alone. So, money is it right now. That is what we have to work with. In order to work with it, we must understand its place.

Choices, we have choices. And as we know, choices lead to other choices, nothing is stagnant. And here's is the rub... what may be true today will not hold the mustard tomorrow. However, to wander aimlessly in the desert is to be without a map, let alone a destination. Fourty years will pass whether we do anything with them -or not. But if we aim ourselves to meet ourselves or, those with a like mind, in fourty years... aah-ha! (This reminds me of gray hairs talking about whether or not they should plant an apple tree because they won't be here to enjoy the fruits of their labor.) So...

What do we want? First and foremost, what do we want?

Clean energy
I'd say less people (we demand other species to cowtow to us but we don't contain our own, does that make sense here?)
Clean air
Clean Water
Food for all
Forests
Diversity
Education
Communication
Sustainable living quarters
Transportation

I have to leave this now and earn my keep.

I'm sorry for editing but I'd like to add one more thing to the pot... What is real wealth? If you had millions of dollars, what would you do with it? We must think and make wise choices, as if we already had it.

[Sebastion]

For myself, I long ago acknowledged that there was evil in the world yet vowed to myself in the same breath, that it had no power over me. That has been my experience and will continue to be.....







Here is a clip I happened to come across, that give example of the 4th Dimensional play ground who continue to whisper into man’s ear’s, trying to convince use they have power greater than ours. Ha fat chance. The game is up, we know who they are. Nice show, but its all coming to a close. All is Forwell. :cool: John XXX


YGD6msMCLBs

no more demy Gods or fallen angles will rule. :smash: :nono:

[Sebastion]

Hi Sygh and thanks for posting. For myself, I have had a deep love for trees and growing things. Since childhood, noting that lots of trees were being cut down, I took it upon myself to plant trees as often as I could and continue to do so. There is nothing more beautiful to me then listening to the wind gently blowing through the pines and leaves of tall trees. It has its own special magic about it. It is a simple act of loving and doing and thus, found a great and simple joy in doing so.......





Consider Charles/Atticus/Steven... consider Bill and Kerry. Atticus said something I didn't appreciate, he inferred all of this was just a job... just a way to make a lot of money. And that there were many here stuck in the fog. Maybe it was a challenge.

Do you think that is what all of this is about? No, it is absolutely not. But to fool ourselves and say we do not need some sort of currency for trading is also not real. To worship the dollar, the dinero, or the rupel, as if the ownership of a pile of money gives someone the absolute right to shape, and ultimately rule the world is, as we have seen, a huge pile of stench for all creatures great -and small (like me ;-). But in order to get things done, something of worth must be obtained for work, unless we get to the lowest common denominator, that being survival alone.

Choices, we have choices. And as we know, choices lead to other choices, nothing is stagnant. And here's is the rub... what may be true today will not hold the mustard tomorrow. However, to wander aimlessly in the desert is to be without a map, let alone a destination. Fourty years will pass whether we do anything with them -or not. But if we aim ourselves to meet ourselves or, those with a like mind, in fourty years. This reminds me of gray hairs talking about whether or not they should plant an apple tree because they won't be here to enjoy the fruits of their labor. So...

What do we want? First and foremost, what do we want?

Clean energy
I'd say less people (we demand other species to cowtow to us but we don't contain our own, does that make sense here?)
Clean air
Clean Water
Food for all
Forests
Diversity
Education
Communication
Sustainable living quarters
Transportation

I have to leave this now and earn my keep.

[sygh]

Yes. Its like when one meditates but gets side tracked by the hords of by-standers (one meeting self at the carnival) talking on the sides, never reaching the ultimate goal of the... dare I say it?... the purple flame. Actually further, the gold speck in the center of the white light.

Now is the time. Now is always the time. What are we doing now. What are we reaching for? Where will our road ultimately take us? Where do we want to be a year from now, five years from now, 50 years from now? Yes. Others have their plans ... fracking, more deforestation, more devistation to the waters of the earth. Where is our voice? Do we scream for free this and that?

Do not dismiss Steven as such a negative, he has shined a great light on a very real problem Avalon has and is still facing... are we avatars, or are we real? Are the simulations others have shown us concerning the extinction of the land and animals on the earth just another show to be gazed upon like an accomplishment in film? Will we be spectators or, will we accomplish something we set out to do? If we have faultered, the error, or lack of wisdom would be to cover it up with our egos, never learning anything by it. As you well know, it doesn't matter how many years we have known, it is what we have done with the knowledge we posess.

Where is the sane voice of reason? It is here because we will make it here.

[Sebastion]

There is a time and a season for all things...and the momentum continues to build..




Yes. Its like when one meditates but gets side tracked by the hords of by-standers (one meeting self at the carnival) talking on the sides, never reaching the ultimate goal of the... dare I say it?... the purple flame. Actually further, the gold speck in the center of the white light.

Now is the time. Now is always the time. What are we doing now. What are we reaching for? Where will our road ultimately take us? Where do we want to be a year from now, five years from now, 50 years from now? Yes. Others have their plans ... fracking, more deforestation, more devistation to the waters of the earth. Where is our voice? Do we scream for free this and that?

Do not dismiss Steven as such a negative, he has shined a great light on a very real problem Avalon has and is still facing... are we avatars, or are we real? Are the simulations others have shown us concerning the extinction of the land and animals on the earth just another show to be gazed upon like an accomplishment in film? Will we be spectators or, will we accomplish something we set out to do? If we have faultered, the error, or lack of wisdom would be to cover it up with our egos, never learning anything by it. As you well know, it doesn't matter how many years we have known, it is what we have done with the knowledge we posess.

Where is the sane voice of reason? It is here because we will make it here.

[Delight]

Throw this into the equation. Most of our new thought and new age religions are basically remanufactred versions of Christianity (if they aren't re-arranging the furniture on the Buddhist Titanic) that you noted above, that does indeed promote co-dependency. The core values are the same and they all revolve around co dependent behaviors. Meaning most new age or new thought philosophies are re-furbished co dependent based Christianity. Someone or something is coming to save you or ascend you.

A very large program of energy vampirism.



I agree with the innate schism between SELF sufficiency (the direct link in to one's energy SOURCE) and the convoluted needs set up to exchange energy. This involves co-dependency (cannot do for self), counter dependency(cannot depend on anything even self) and Faithful dependence on a "god" WHO is above in hierarchy and must be the one to save us.

However, I also believe (a thought repeated over and over that coalesced into a filter) that maybe there is an over all "purpose" for the way things have been presented to me (by me?)? In other words, it does not seem impossible that the whole design of the "hall of mirrors" is a game I set before my self (from SELF)?

I do not claim to know this but I feel into it. I have observed that there is pattern, regularity, an overall picture and other clues that seem to show there is design.

I watched a series about the mystery behind the creation of the New Atlantis (to be carried out in the USA). The questions for me from that interesting set of clues is "what was the purpose?",and if so was it for "Benefit of Humanity?" and if so "Were the purposes distorted, perverted, or were there unintended consequences?" OR is it all working itself out in NOW in an unknown trajectory we are actively shaping?

In regards to New Thought, I don't quite see that it is rehashing of the Exoteric Christian religion so much as the bringing out of what might be in the Esoteric part of Christianity. It seems to be a blossoming out of an idea that we are NOT DEPENDENT on "god" to save or do for us. It seems to be about we already HAVE a make up that creates in form based on thoughts and belief and feeling strongly for something. To me this is true and despite what others have said about the "fiction", it seems to be a practical tool for operation on the physical realm.

Actually if this is a "game", I as part of the "plan" may be participating in a design? Is it to experiment with a POV? Frankly I am enamored of POV as it seems to cut through lots of contardiction with Time/ space questions. There seems to be waxing and waning of cycles.

What if this is all about experiencing (versus ideas). I didn't make any of that up but the difference between an idea and one fully lived is HUGE.

Wouldn't it make some sense that the ability to see through the smoke and mirrors and to feel in to the source for one self might be a design that weeds out and refines and sifts for a "reason" we asked to experience? The co-dependent and the vampiric cannot be self sustaining and must die as "time" moves on.

The main threads that I see in the Perennial Philosophy (the esoteric tradition of the west) seem to be about the ability to operate independently from the mass of collective thought by creation of a capacity for discernemnet. In constantly questioning we begin to develop a real point of attention that is ours: a POV. I may be wrong but this is what I have digested.

It has been said IF there is a game, all information must be made available but it is up to the Individual being to understand what is made available. As one begins to gather a core strength of Sovereign perspective, less and less of the obfuscation is taken in and then more and more power of singularity is developed? Is this true? I cannot say that it is true but it is what I have learned for my own sifting.

The big step is self trust. It still feels shakey until one finally fully appreciates that one is not at the mercy of another. But the fruits cannot be shared. People have to develop it on one's own. It takes turning away from others and settling WITHIN.

It can be very challenging to live in the world where everything pulls at one. It is especially hard I think (as a woman) when one is bearing children and maybe that is why women get codependent to the counterpoint of the users of energy. One is given a hard challenge to separate out one SELF when in the bounds of taking care of others.

The humorous part is if we are INFINITE and never were born and never die, one can begin to laugh at the seeming constraints of a lifetime in this game. On the other hand, I think many who land at PA have been playing in these fields for a looooong time and look to move out of the main frame of this holograpghic set up.

Lone story short, it is not scary when one finally knows that the very name "god" has to do with the snares of codependency bind we will "cut away" at the end of the game. Just my way of seeing things.... Maggie

[Sebastion]

May I say that you have described your path and your way quite beautifully....








Throw this into the equation. Most of our new thought and new age religions are basically remanufactred versions of Christianity (if they aren't re-arranging the furniture on the Buddhist Titanic) that you noted above, that does indeed promote co-dependency. The core values are the same and they all revolve around co dependent behaviors. Meaning most new age or new thought philosophies are re-furbished co dependent based Christianity. Someone or something is coming to save you or ascend you.

A very large program of energy vampirism.



I agree with the innate schism between SELF sufficiency (the direct link in to one's energy SOURCE) and the convoluted needs set up to exchange energy. This involves co-dependency (cannot do for self), counter dependency(cannot depend on anything even self) and Faithful dependence on a "god" WHO is above in hierarchy and must be the one to save us.

However, I also believe (a thought repeated over and over that coalesced into a filter) that maybe there is an over all "purpose" for the way things have been presented to me (by me?)? In other words, it does not seem impossible that the whole design of the "hall of mirrors" is a game I set before my self (from SELF)?

I do not claim to know this but I feel into it. I have observed that there is pattern, regularity, an overall picture and other clues that seem to show there is design.

I watched a series about the mystery behind the creation of the New Atlantis (to be carried out in the USA). The questions for me from that interesting set of clues is "what was the purpose?",and if so was it for "Benefit of Humanity?" and if so "Were the purposes distorted, perverted, or were there unintended consequences?" OR is it all working itself out in NOW in an unknown trajectory we are actively shaping?

In regards to New Thought, I don't quite see that it is rehashing of the Exoteric Christian religion so much as the bringing out of what might be in the Esoteric part of Christianity. It seems to be a blossoming out of an idea that we are NOT DEPENDENT on "god" to save or do for us. It seems to be about we already HAVE a make up that creates in form based on thoughts and belief and feeling strongly for something. To me this is true and despite what others have said about the "fiction", it seems to be a practical tool for operation on the physical realm.

Actually if this is a "game", I as part of the "plan" may be participating in a design? Is it to experiment with a POV? Frankly I am enamored of POV as it seems to cut through lots of contardiction with Time/ space questions. There seems to be waxing and waning of cycles.

What if this is all about experiencing (versus ideas). I didn't make any of that up but the difference between an idea and one fully lived is HUGE.

Wouldn't it make some sense that the ability to see through the smoke and mirrors and to feel in to the source for one self might be a design that weeds out and refines and sifts for a "reason" we asked to experience? The co-dependent and the vampiric cannot be self sustaining and must die as "time" moves on.

The main threads that I see in the Perennial Philosophy (the esoteric tradition of the west) seem to be about the ability to operate independently from the mass of collective thought by creation of a capacity for discernemnet. In constantly questioning we begin to develop a real point of attention that is ours: a POV. I may be wrong but this is what I have digested.

It has been said IF there is a game, all information must be made available but it is up to the Individual being to understand what is made available. As one begins to gather a core strength of Sovereign perspective, less and less of the obfuscation is taken in and then more and more power of singularity is developed? Is this true? I cannot say that it is true but it is what I have learned for my own sifting.

The big step is self trust. It still feels shakey until one finally fully appreciates that one is not at the mercy of another. But the fruits cannot be shared. People have to develop it on one's own. It takes turning away from others and settling WITHIN.

It can be very challenging to live in the world where everything pulls at one. It is especially hard I think (as a woman) when one is bearing children and maybe that is why women get codependent to the counterpoint of the users of energy. One is given a hard challenge to separate out one SELF when in the bounds of taking care of others.

The humorous part is if we are INFINITE and never were born and never die, one can begin to laugh at the seeming constraints of a lifetime in this game. On the other hand, I think many who land at PA have been playing in these fields for a looooong time and look to move out of the main frame of this holograpghic set up.

Lone story short, it is not scary when one finally knows that the very name "god" has to do with the snares of codependency bind we will "cut away" at the end of the game. Just my way of seeing things.... Maggie

[9eagle9]

the mother hood co-dependent one is partially instilled by our society.Guilt complex. I was in that mechanism with a narccist. I was responsibile for EVERYTHING. Talk about a soul killler. I thought one day, 'what am I showing my daughter here'? and that smacked me upside the head.

She lived with her father for a time, and I can see that "I'm responsible for everything' mechanism coming up in her from his influence. Everything in the house was her fault. When she came to live with me, I got that checked after a few years but then goes away and comes back and i'm always ferreting it out in here and sometimes I trigger it quite unintentionally --she gets overwhelmed that I'm putting all this responsiblity on her when I'm not really and because I'm 'conditioned' to juggle demands flying in fast and thick at a hundred miles an hour, I forget she can't.

She was out riding with friends yesterday, and horse bolted and her friend popped off the horse, landed in the hard gravel road, her helmet came off before she landed , clocked her head after a 7 foot fall on what may as well be pavement,and my daugher just gunned her horse, stopped at slide, takes this tremendous leap off her horse cell phone in hand, checked on her friend, called EMT, called the girl's mother while managing a plunging rearing horse, and all this occurs in a space of one minute, then turns around driving her spinning horse into oncoming traffic to tell the idiot drivers who are nearly running the fallen girl over to **** OFF and go around. One of the drivers replied "I'm going ot let your parents know how you talk to adults" and instead of losing it like Mother would she , "My mother standing just down that hill, you just go on down there now and let her know how I talked to you!"

Not bad for a 16 year. Its episodes like that where I'm thinking , she's goign to be okay.

But then.....Gets the situation under control until help arrives and then bursts into tears "It's all my fault" .

then the infection spreads...lol.

Strangely enough I'm half a mile away giving a lesson when I hear the news and think the same thing. "My fault."

Later we have five woman standign around all of us shaking our heads "It's our fault."

Co dependency is insiduous.

[Sebastion]

I sincerely hope that the young lady came out of it without serious injury! My best to her!

Guilt trips and finding fault- all used as power tools against you to make you feel "bad" etc. There is so much that can be said about that, that I wouldn't have a clue where to begin! lol I can only say that I don't buy into either one.......





the mother hood co-dependent one is partially instilled by our society.Guilt complex. I was in that mechanism with a narccist. I was responsibile for EVERYTHING. Talk about a soul killler. I thought one day, 'what am I showing my daughter here'? and that smacked me upside the head.

She lived with her father for a time, and I can see that "I'm responsible for everything' mechanism coming up in her from his influence. Everything in the house was her fault. When she came to live with me, I got that checked after a few years but then goes away and comes back and i'm always ferreting it out in here and sometimes I trigger it quite unintentionally --she gets overwhelmed that I'm putting all this responsiblity on her when I'm not really and because I'm 'conditioned' to juggle demands flying in fast and thick at a hundred miles an hour, I forget she can't.

She was out riding with friends yesterday, and horse bolted and her friend popped off the horse, landed in the hard gravel road, her helmet came off before she landed , clocked her head after a 7 foot fall on what may as well be pavement,and my daugher just gunned her horse, stopped at slide, takes this tremendous leap off her horse cell phone in hand, checked on her friend, called EMT, called the girl's mother while managing a plunging rearing horse, and all this occurs in a space of one minute, then turns around driving her spinning horse into oncoming traffic to tell the idiot drivers who are nearly running the fallen girl over to **** OFF and go around. One of the drivers replied "I'm going ot let your parents know how you talk to adults" and instead of losing it like Mother would she , "My mother standing just down that hill, you just go on down there now and let her know how I talked to you!"

Not bad for a 16 year. Its episodes like that where I'm thinking , she's goign to be okay.

But then.....Gets the situation under control until help arrives and then bursts into tears "It's all my fault" .

then the infection spreads...lol.

Strangely enough I'm half a mile away giving a lesson when I hear the news and think the same thing. "My fault."

Later we have five woman standign around all of us shaking our heads "It's our fault."

Co dependency is insiduous.

[Delight]

Guilt trips and finding fault- all used as power tools against you to make you feel "bad" etc. There is so much that can be said about that, that I wouldn't have a clue where to begin! lol I can only say that I don't buy into either one.......



Co dependency is insiduous.

I am thinking of how insidious my "buy in" to guilt displays itself. It arises as if by its own will. I would like to avoid the cords of guilting but they are triggered anyway. So, I just have to see them after the fact and snip. So much about "relationship" can bring up "faults". One person being "themselves" hits the wall of another "being themselves". The inequities that seem to come up in "any project" of daily life in a group.

Just because you didn't "mean" to do something, you find it happens and the link of cause ...effect seems someone is to blame. It is almost easier to feel guilt towards self than blame if you are striving for "improvement". I almost need to cultivate a "I don't care" "So What" attitude to deal with myself because I often feel left footed in society. It takes a major leap of Sovereignty to stop caring what happens in the world with others. Being an idealist and wanting to stand up for ideals is a trap. One will always fail to meet an ideal and then feel "guilty"

One of the challenges to me comes out the idea of "cooperation". Am I being uncooperative? If it seems so, then Guilty.

I feel some guilt at how my mind might change from one day to the next yet the world revolves around scheduling.

There are subtle guilts like not appreciating what another is offering. Guilt for wanting to set a boundary that another sees no need to set. Guilt for seeming to contradict myself suddenly or anytime I am in proximity to expectations and want to say no for no good reason. I can see when the cord needs cutting but leap to buy in before a thoght even arises.

[Sebastion]

My ex-wife was a consummate professional at laying guilt trips on you. It was her number 1 assault weapon of choice! It took me at least 6mos. to get my head screwed back on right, after the divorce! Had to do a load of thinking on that and ultimately decided that if I was going to do something, then it was because that was what I wanted and chose to do. I don't need or desire approval of anyone other than myself, within reason of course-communication goes a long way! I've almost forgotten what guilt feels like entirely. I think I heard Ramtha say once, that you only need to feel anything one time and if you own it as wisdom, you never have to feel it again. A lot easier said then done.....lol





Guilt trips and finding fault- all used as power tools against you to make you feel "bad" etc. There is so much that can be said about that, that I wouldn't have a clue where to begin! lol I can only say that I don't buy into either one.......



Co dependency is insiduous.

I am thinking of how insidious my "buy in" to guilt displays itself. It arises as if by its own will. I would like to avoid the cords of guilting but they are triggered anyway. So, I just have to see them after the fact and snip. So much about "relationship" can bring up "faults". One person being "themselves" hits the wall of another "being themselves". The inequities that seem to come up in "any project" of daily life in a group.

Just because you didn't "mean" to do something, you find it happens and the link of cause ...effect seems someone is to blame. It is almost easier to feel guilt towards self than blame if you are striving for "improvement". I almost need to cultivate a "I don't care" "So What" attitude to deal with myself because I often feel left footed in society. It takes a major leap of Sovereignty to stop caring what happens in the world with others. Being an idealist and wanting to stand up for ideals is a trap. One will always fail to meet an ideal and then feel "guilty"

One of the challenges to me comes out the idea of "cooperation". Am I being uncooperative? If it seems so, then Guilty.

I feel some guilt at how my mind might change from one day to the next yet the world revolves around scheduling.

There are subtle guilts like not appreciating what another is offering. Guilt for wanting to set a boundary that another sees no need to set. Guilt for seeming to contradict myself suddenly or anytime I am in proximity to expectations and want to say no for no good reason. I can see when the cord needs cutting but leap to buy in before a thoght even arises.

[Sebastion]

Many years have passed since my major episodes in cosmic consciousness. I have looked for ways to communicate to others what was seen and experienced and could find nothing adequate. Many times I have tried to talk about it, only to watch eyes rolling and the subtle shaking of heads. It is okay, as I have made my peace with it. As I have said previously and Jorr has stated in another thread, it is an alone process and there is nothing wrong with being alone. We are born alone and will pass from this earth alone.

I had the realization and began to view everything as energy and energy in motion. It seemed to me that this was an excellent way to impart to others, a way to see the truth of what really is, more easily. At the very least, it would show that sometimes you make yourself suffer for no good reason. If I could get anyone to see that they suffer only from an emotional attachment to an idea and that is all it was, would not that information serve at least those who could see and understand it? It reveals how all the power trips and mind games are perpetrated upon you in subtle ways nearly everyday of your life. Good information to be aware of I would think.....

[9eagle9]

The girl is fine, a concussion and nice egg on her head and she's languishing at home now. And I and / or a friend will be wearing the tank of a horse out until she recovers enough to get back on him. Which won,t solve anything but is me taking unneccessary responsbility....lol. Co-dependency strikes again. But if I want her to keep her horse and keep riding that would be my cooperative effort. She will eventually have to take some of her own.

I would imagine 'cooperation' would need examining. Cooperation doesn't neccessarily mean agreement.

I find myself in long conversations revolving about disagree-ing (not arguing). Then a resolution is found after all the disagreement points are weeded out. That's cooperation. Both parties are correct in disagreeing. If not for the disagreement the cooperation place would not be had.

That's how cars are built. If left up to the design team we'd have mechanical failures that looked like gazelles, if left entirely to engineering we'd be driving boxes. So there is a cooperation there that creates a car that is functional and looks well too.

Some people would rather be right than cooperative. Being right is a instant gratification, cooperation tends towards long term fixtures and resolutions.

A co-dependent tends to break agreements even those they desire because a resolution puts an end to the control drama. Because they don't know who they are they don't know what they want, and drama is the only familiar compass point in their lives. Very emotionally generated.

A co dependent's only control over anything is 'being' right not neccessarily correct. (Rather be right than happy).

In order to maintain their right to being right (instead of earning it by being correct) they inflict guilt. Very old programming we've carried in our psyche for thousands of years.

Previously instilled in them is that mechanism that they are responsible for everything--other people's emotional welfare, literally everything. And then in turn this imposition onto others in the form of guilt. If they are right , others are wrong and therefore must be guilty. Then just hammer at person inflicting guilt to maintain that position.

Facts are discarded for 'what they want to hear."

" If I am incorrect about something I then have the authority of my error and can therefore change it" <<<<scary words for the co-dependent.

Life is a big downer because they tend towards craving the factually impossible because denial is a big part of the energy feed. They literally seek out those who will deny them.

I find this in equestrian sports where the trainer is a screamer, a fit thrower, and a drama queen because the student is always denying through their incorrectness the trainer's means of attaining Olympic Glory. The student is there to learn how to ride a horse well. The instructor perceives the student is there to achieve what the instructor has always craved. When the student doesn't perform well enough the instructor feels like the student is denying them their vicarious triumph when the student is entirely clueless and unnerved about this abrasion, wishing only to learn how to ride a horse. The student is then laden with the unweildy burden of being responsiblie for the instructor's emotional welfare. Stage mother syndrome.

Perversely this is why I dropped any esoteric proffesions and entered into the realms of EQ sports. Co-dependency is lethal in eq sports. A nipping it in the bud earlier may be considered my only contribution to humanity. Save for the rare few, a horse will not take care of you. Does not manage your emotional state or cater to it. I tell all my young students, "You can sit on that horse for hours and cry, and he will NOT care.. There is no response until one communicates themselves properly. A horse does not respond to head games, power plays, temper tantrums, pushing, and emotional outbursts". A horse will not cooperate until it is given a correct communication that it can respond to.

This is why the young girl fell from her horse. I had earlier suggested that his bit should be changed out . This advice was refused. The horse didn't take care of its rider nor is it required to if the rider is not taking care of the means of managing the horse. Plus the horse needs to be worked, she got on a hot horse, with no means of controlling the horse assuming the horse will take care of her and he didn't. They seldom ever do but I see this over and over. People crashing over off their horses because they think the horse will take care of them! A few will, and that is sad sorta because the horse has more brains than the rider. Even when the rare horse takes care of its rider, like refusing to gallop because the rider is unbalanced, that causes frustration because the rider wants to run and the horse knows better. The rider then perceives the horse as denying them and the horse is entirely correct.

A horse never assumes guilt or blame. Co-dependency in riding is not allowed, and even lethal. Once co-dependents realize fairly quickly my chosen area of life remains relatively free. People think I'm crazy but this is an avenue of sanity for me.

This is our first point of true awareness, knowing where we are incorrect instead of zombie walking through life. "Gee I just caused that situation. "

"but I'd rather have the situation corrected than defend my incorrectness."

That is our first extertion of our authority--to correct what is in actual error. It doesn't require cooperation. A co dependent will ultimately undermine any sort of cooperative effort because they want the upper hand (even though they are terrorfied of it).

There is no reason why guilt should be present in this sort of endeavor, you are are after taking the measures to correct an incorrect situation.

We erroneously take responsiblity for things that are not ours to take because its easier than attempting to make cooperation with a co-dependent (impossible actually).

But the co dependent doesnt' want correction. They want drama. You can't correct what is going on inside their head, the story they are living in so they bring the drama out and attempt to make you take a role in it. One that is usually of guilt. Every story needs a bad guy.

If we are imposed on that everything is our 'fault' we risk feeling guilty over everything that goes wrong. In assuming responsibility (how we respond) we take authority over a situation. Co-dependents don't have authority-everything is someone elses responsbility. When someone isn't taking responsibility they feel unsafe. Even if that responsibility is putting them in actual danger. Digging their own grave, I call it. Always ANOTHER reason why something is occuring other than themselves.

People made the church responsible for their souls, look where are now. No one knows their higher self.

We made doctors responsbile for our health, and we're all sick.

We are embroiled culturally in co-dependency.

A co dependent will listen long and hard to the advice one is giving them because they are getting attention. They will not act on this advice, because it may fix the drama. Then they come seeking attention again in the form of asking for advice. When I refuse to give 'more ' advice (which is actualy just the advice previously given) they get angry. I'm not taking responsblity for their ****.

I suppose some awkwardly call this being scared of one's own power. Its not power they're scared of, they crave it actually, but being afraid of responding or..being responsible.

Or every rational peice of advice is deflected or refused because they have no authority to use it. "I can't do that because So-n-So is standing in my way."

Always looking for something external of them to help correct what they perceive is a externally generated problem.

I often note, I don't do anything to defend myself (defending myself means guilt is present) I just wait till they play out enough rope and they hang themselves.

You just never give the co-dependent the control they crave over you. They simply don't know what to do with it and then will ultimately blame you for making them responsible. There's not equitable cooperation because that's not what they want, they want control over their lives , give up that control to others and get in this revolving door of resentment to those they 'perceive' as controlling or denying them of something.

Co-dependent men often accuse me of "playing hard to get". I'm not reallly I'm just not giving them what they want--authority over me. Co -dependent men and women often find me unsympathetic. I am, sympathy tends to emphasis that something out of their control is imposing on them and I just know that isn't true. I KNOW this I mean , done to the bone sort of way so I'm seldom engaged in guilt mechansims anymore. When the co-dependent wants 'symptathy' they want someone taking the guilt.


the most apology I will give is "I'm sorry I forgot that everyone is co-dependent and can't manage themeslves."..lol.

Perversely the co dependent mechanism where one is at fault for everything, they refuse responsiblity not realizing there is difference between the two.

Responsiblity and disagreement aren't neccessarily joined at the hip with cooperation. Sometimes its my responsiblity (the way I respond) to disagree. It doesn't mean I'm not being uncooperative it means I notice incorrectness.

When they are so emotionally driven you really have to not engage with them until that emotional energy has burnt off. That too drives them nuts and runs the risk of them creating control dramas in their head where the guilt heaping mechanism goes into over drive.

[ljwheat]

Many years have passed since my major episodes in cosmic consciousness. I have looked for ways to communicate to others what was seen and experienced and could find nothing adequate. Many times I have tried to talk about it, only to watch eyes rolling and the subtle shaking of heads. It is okay, as I have made my peace with it. As I have said previously and Jorr has stated in another thread, it is an alone process and there is nothing wrong with being alone. We are born alone and will pass from this earth alone.

I had the realization and began to view everything as energy and energy in motion. It seemed to me that this was an excellent way to impart to others, a way to see the truth of what really is, more easily. At the very least, it would show that sometimes you make yourself suffer for no good reason. If I could get anyone to see that they suffer only from an emotional attachment to an idea and that is all it was, would not that information serve at least those who could see and understand it? It reveals how all the power trips and mind games are perpetrated upon you in subtle ways nearly everyday of your life. Good information to be aware of I would think.....

For some its an awakening, others a remembering, either way, parables or analogies point fingers at the is’ness that can only be known, passing on this know ness, is so brief in an instant, when the awareness of spirit is visualized, it become an eternal moment, its full awareness stepping on the human mind like a tinny ant, were all that is, felt into by the awareness of a sight that has no words to convey its total completeness, the human mind can not grasp. Let alone put into words. When one become speech less in a blissful embrace, eye’s lock feeling into one another in silence, maybe a tier of joy roll’ down both our cheeks. A long pause then in unison both say in a soft almost un ineligible voice . ( I see you )

Its just not right that we have not the words to put forward, telepathically maybe, in a mind to mind (mind meld) live long and prosper embrace.

The prison the VEIL in our heads is this language we’ve been enslaved with since the tower of babble, I tried to do a thread on this subject. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42133-Hmmmmmm-What-IF...

Again the eye rolling, the wondering who see’s me, do I see other’s in this is’ness here and now. I’ve tried to add friends to my list when I’ve glimpsed this in other’s, as they to struggle with the VEIL the curse of the human mind and the smoke of words, the fire of the is’ness give off from time to time. I no longer am content to smoke, I want to be the constant flame I know is the is-ness , alas I feel I am still in a human prison.

U4cbzUG2V-I

8qSTHPABoHc

uIaY0l5qV0c

WAAAAAAA WHOOOOOOOOOOOO BE The FLAME..... JohnXXX

[Sebastion]

9eagle9 You have some of the most profound understandings I have ever had the pleasure of reading and I am exceedingly grateful for all that you have said thus far......thank you





The girl is fine, a concussion and nice egg on her head and she's languishing at home now. And I and / or a friend will be wearing the tank of a horse out until she recovers enough to get back on him. Which won,t solve anything but is me taking unneccessary responsbility....lol. Co-dependency strikes again. But if I want her to keep her horse and keep riding that would be my cooperative effort. She will eventually have to take some of her own.

I would imagine 'cooperation' would need examining. Cooperation doesn't neccessarily mean agreement.

I find myself in long conversations revolving about disagree-ing (not arguing). Then a resolution is found after all the disagreement points are weeded out. That's cooperation. Both parties are correct in disagreeing. If not for the disagreement the cooperation place would not be had.

That's how cars are built. If left up to the design team we'd have mechanical failures that looked like gazelles, if left entirely to engineering we'd be driving boxes. So there is a cooperation there that creates a car that is functional and looks well too.

Some people would rather be right than cooperative. Being right is a instant gratification, cooperation tends towards long term fixtures and resolutions.

A co-dependent tends to break agreements even those they desire because a resolution puts an end to the control drama. Because they don't know who they are they don't know what they want, and drama is the only familiar compass point in their lives. Very emotionally generated.

A co dependent's only control over anything is 'being' right not neccessarily correct. (Rather be right than happy).

In order to maintain their right to being right (instead of earning it by being correct) they inflict guilt. Very old programming we've carried in our psyche for thousands of years.

Previously instilled in them is that mechanism that they are responsible for everything--other people's emotional welfare, literally everything. And then in turn this imposition onto others in the form of guilt. If they are right , others are wrong and therefore must be guilty. Then just hammer at person inflicting guilt to maintain that position.

Facts are discarded for 'what they want to hear."

" If I am incorrect about something I then have the authority of my error and can therefore change it" <<<<scary words for the co-dependent.

Life is a big downer because they tend towards craving the factually impossible because denial is a big part of the energy feed. They literally seek out those who will deny them.

I find this in equestrian sports where the trainer is a screamer, a fit thrower, and a drama queen because the student is always denying through their incorrectness the trainer's means of attaining Olympic Glory. The student is there to learn how to ride a horse well. The instructor perceives the student is there to achieve what the instructor has always craved. When the student doesn't perform well enough the instructor feels like the student is denying them their vicarious triumph when the student is entirely clueless and unnerved about this abrasion, wishing only to learn how to ride a horse. The student is then laden with the unweildy burden of being responsiblie for the instructor's emotional welfare. Stage mother syndrome.

Perversely this is why I dropped any esoteric proffesions and entered into the realms of EQ sports. Co-dependency is lethal in eq sports. A nipping it in the bud earlier may be considered my only contribution to humanity. Save for the rare few, a horse will not take care of you. Does not manage your emotional state or cater to it. I tell all my young students, "You can sit on that horse for hours and cry, and he will NOT care.. There is no response until one communicates themselves properly. A horse does not respond to head games, power plays, temper tantrums, pushing, and emotional outbursts". A horse will not cooperate until it is given a correct communication that it can respond to.

This is why the young girl fell from her horse. I had earlier suggested that his bit should be changed out . This advice was refused. The horse didn't take care of its rider nor is it required to if the rider is not taking care of the means of managing the horse. Plus the horse needs to be worked, she got on a hot horse, with no means of controlling the horse assuming the horse will take care of her and he didn't. They seldom ever do but I see this over and over. People crashing over off their horses because they think the horse will take care of them! A few will, and that is sad sorta because the horse has more brains than the rider. Even when the rare horse takes care of its rider, like refusing to gallop because the rider is unbalanced, that causes frustration because the rider wants to run and the horse knows better. The rider then perceives the horse as denying them and the horse is entirely correct.

A horse never assumes guilt or blame. Co-dependency in riding is not allowed, and even lethal. Once co-dependents realize fairly quickly my chosen area of life remains relatively free. People think I'm crazy but this is an avenue of sanity for me.

This is our first point of true awareness, knowing where we are incorrect instead of zombie walking through life. "Gee I just caused that situation. "

"but I'd rather have the situation corrected than defend my incorrectness."

That is our first extertion of our authority--to correct what is in actual error. It doesn't require cooperation. A co dependent will ultimately undermine any sort of cooperative effort because they want the upper hand (even though they are terrorfied of it).

There is no reason why guilt should be present in this sort of endeavor, you are are after taking the measures to correct an incorrect situation.

We erroneously take responsiblity for things that are not ours to take because its easier than attempting to make cooperation with a co-dependent (impossible actually).

But the co dependent doesnt' want correction. They want drama. You can't correct what is going on inside their head, the story they are living in so they bring the drama out and attempt to make you take a role in it. One that is usually of guilt. Every story needs a bad guy.

If we are imposed on that everything is our 'fault' we risk feeling guilty over everything that goes wrong. In assuming responsibility (how we respond) we take authority over a situation. Co-dependents don't have authority-everything is someone elses responsbility. When someone isn't taking responsibility they feel unsafe. Even if that responsibility is putting them in actual danger. Digging their own grave, I call it. Always ANOTHER reason why something is occuring other than themselves.

People made the church responsible for their souls, look where are now. No one knows their higher self.

We made doctors responsbile for our health, and we're all sick.

We are embroiled culturally in co-dependency.

A co dependent will listen long and hard to the advice one is giving them because they are getting attention. They will not act on this advice, because it may fix the drama. Then they come seeking attention again in the form of asking for advice. When I refuse to give 'more ' advice (which is actualy just the advice previously given) they get angry. I'm not taking responsblity for their ****.

I suppose some awkwardly call this being scared of one's own power. Its not power they're scared of, they crave it actually, but being afraid of responding or..being responsible.

Or every rational peice of advice is deflected or refused because they have no authority to use it. "I can't do that because So-n-So is standing in my way."

Always looking for something external of them to help correct what they perceive is a externally generated problem.

I often note, I don't do anything to defend myself (defending myself means guilt is present) I just wait till they play out enough rope and they hang themselves.

You just never give the co-dependent the control they crave over you. They simply don't know what to do with it and then will ultimately blame you for making them responsible. There's not equitable cooperation because that's not what they want, they want control over their lives , give up that control to others and get in this revolving door of resentment to those they 'perceive' as controlling or denying them of something.

Co-dependent men often accuse me of "playing hard to get". I'm not reallly I'm just not giving them what they want--authority over me. Co -dependent men and women often find me unsympathetic. I am, sympathy tends to emphasis that something out of their control is imposing on them and I just know that isn't true. I KNOW this I mean , done to the bone sort of way so I'm seldom engaged in guilt mechansims anymore. When the co-dependent wants 'symptathy' they want someone taking the guilt.


the most apology I will give is "I'm sorry I forgot that everyone is co-dependent and can't manage themeslves."..lol.

Perversely the co dependent mechanism where one is at fault for everything, they refuse responsiblity not realizing there is difference between the two.

Responsiblity and disagreement aren't neccessarily joined at the hip with cooperation. Sometimes its my responsiblity (the way I respond) to disagree. It doesn't mean I'm not being uncooperative it means I notice incorrectness.

When they are so emotionally driven you really have to not engage with them until that emotional energy has burnt off. That too drives them nuts and runs the risk of them creating control dramas in their head where the guilt heaping mechanism goes into over drive.

[Sebastion]

ljwheat, I see you and 9eagle9 too! I had no idea about Jim and it was a joy to see. It tickles me immensely to see such things because you then know, that you're not alone! Thank you........






Many years have passed since my major episodes in cosmic consciousness. I have looked for ways to communicate to others what was seen and experienced and could find nothing adequate. Many times I have tried to talk about it, only to watch eyes rolling and the subtle shaking of heads. It is okay, as I have made my peace with it. As I have said previously and Jorr has stated in another thread, it is an alone process and there is nothing wrong with being alone. We are born alone and will pass from this earth alone.

I had the realization and began to view everything as energy and energy in motion. It seemed to me that this was an excellent way to impart to others, a way to see the truth of what really is, more easily. At the very least, it would show that sometimes you make yourself suffer for no good reason. If I could get anyone to see that they suffer only from an emotional attachment to an idea and that is all it was, would not that information serve at least those who could see and understand it? It reveals how all the power trips and mind games are perpetrated upon you in subtle ways nearly everyday of your life. Good information to be aware of I would think.....

For some its an awakening, others a remembering, either way, parables or analogies point fingers at the is’ness that can only be known, passing on this know ness, is so brief in an instant, when the awareness of spirit is visualized, it become an eternal moment, its full awareness stepping on the human mind like a tinny ant, were all that is, felt into by the awareness of a sight that has no words to convey its total completeness, the human mind can not grasp. Let alone put into words. When one become speech less in a blissful embrace, eye’s lock feeling into one another in silence, maybe a tier of joy roll’ down both our cheeks. A long pause then in unison both say in a soft almost un ineligible voice . ( I see you )

Its just not right that we have not the words to put forward, telepathically maybe, in a mind to mind (mind meld) live long and prosper embrace.

The prison the VEIL in our heads is this language we’ve been enslaved with since the tower of babble, I tried to do a thread on this subject. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42133-Hmmmmmm-What-IF...

Again the eye rolling, the wondering who see’s me, do I see other’s in this is’ness here and now. I’ve tried to add friends to my list when I’ve glimpsed this in other’s, as they to struggle with the VEIL the curse of the human mind and the smoke of words, the fire of the is’ness give off from time to time. I no longer am content to smoke, I want to be the constant flame I know is the is-ness , alas I feel I am still in a human prison.

U4cbzUG2V-I

8qSTHPABoHc

uIaY0l5qV0c

WAAAAAAA WHOOOOOOOOOOOO BE The FLAME..... JohnXXX

[Delight]

I would imagine 'cooperation' would need examining. Cooperation doesn't neccessarily mean agreement.

I find myself in long conversations revolving about disagree-ing (not arguing). Then a resolution is found after all the disagreement points are weeded out. That's cooperation. Both parties are correct in disagreeing. If not for the disagreement the cooperation place would not be had.

That's how cars are built. If left up to the design team we'd have mechanical failures that looked like gazelles, if left entirely to engineering we'd be driving boxes. So there is a cooperation there that creates a car that is functional and looks well too.

Some people would rather be right than cooperative. Being right is a instant gratification, cooperation tends towards long term fixtures and resolutions.

A co-dependent tends to break agreements even those they desire because a resolution puts an end to the control drama. Because they don't know who they are they don't know what they want, and drama is the only familiar compass point in their lives. Very emotionally generated.

A co dependent's only control over anything is 'being' right not neccessarily correct. (Rather be right than happy).

In order to maintain their right to being right (instead of earning it by being correct) they inflict guilt. Very old programming we've carried in our psyche for thousands of years.

Previously instilled in them is that mechanism that they are responsible for everything--other people's emotional welfare, literally everything. And then in turn this imposition onto others in the form of guilt. If they are right , others are wrong and therefore must be guilty. Then just hammer at person inflicting guilt to maintain that position.

Facts are discarded for 'what they want to hear."

" If I am incorrect about something I then have the authority of my error and can therefore change it" <<<<scary words for the co-dependent.

Life is a big downer because they tend towards craving the factually impossible because denial is a big part of the energy feed. They literally seek out those who will deny them.

I find this in equestrian sports where the trainer is a screamer, a fit thrower, and a drama queen because the student is always denying through their incorrectness the trainer's means of attaining Olympic Glory. The student is there to learn how to ride a horse well. The instructor perceives the student is there to achieve what the instructor has always craved. When the student doesn't perform well enough the instructor feels like the student is denying them their vicarious triumph when the student is entirely clueless and unnerved about this abrasion, wishing only to learn how to ride a horse. The student is then laden with the unweildy burden of being responsiblie for the instructor's emotional welfare. Stage mother syndrome.

Perversely this is why I dropped any esoteric proffesions and entered into the realms of EQ sports. Co-dependency is lethal in eq sports. A nipping it in the bud earlier may be considered my only contribution to humanity. Save for the rare few, a horse will not take care of you. Does not manage your emotional state or cater to it. I tell all my young students, "You can sit on that horse for hours and cry, and he will NOT care.. There is no response until one communicates themselves properly. A horse does not respond to head games, power plays, temper tantrums, pushing, and emotional outbursts". A horse will not cooperate until it is given a correct communication that it can respond to.

This is why the young girl fell from her horse. I had earlier suggested that his bit should be changed out . This advice was refused. The horse didn't take care of its rider nor is it required to if the rider is not taking care of the means of managing the horse. Plus the horse needs to be worked, she got on a hot horse, with no means of controlling the horse assuming the horse will take care of her and he didn't. They seldom ever do but I see this over and over. People crashing over off their horses because they think the horse will take care of them! A few will, and that is sad sorta because the horse has more brains than the rider. Even when the rare horse takes care of its rider, like refusing to gallop because the rider is unbalanced, that causes frustration because the rider wants to run and the horse knows better. The rider then perceives the horse as denying them and the horse is entirely correct.

A horse never assumes guilt or blame. Co-dependency in riding is not allowed, and even lethal. Once co-dependents realize fairly quickly my chosen area of life remains relatively free. People think I'm crazy but this is an avenue of sanity for me.

This is our first point of true awareness, knowing where we are incorrect instead of zombie walking through life. "Gee I just caused that situation. "

"but I'd rather have the situation corrected than defend my incorrectness."

That is our first extertion of our authority--to correct what is in actual error. It doesn't require cooperation. A co dependent will ultimately undermine any sort of cooperative effort because they want the upper hand (even though they are terrorfied of it).

There is no reason why guilt should be present in this sort of endeavor, you are are after taking the measures to correct an incorrect situation.

We erroneously take responsiblity for things that are not ours to take because its easier than attempting to make cooperation with a co-dependent (impossible actually).

But the co dependent doesnt' want correction. They want drama. You can't correct what is going on inside their head, the story they are living in so they bring the drama out and attempt to make you take a role in it. One that is usually of guilt. Every story needs a bad guy.

If we are imposed on that everything is our 'fault' we risk feeling guilty over everything that goes wrong. In assuming responsibility (how we respond) we take authority over a situation. Co-dependents don't have authority-everything is someone elses responsbility. When someone isn't taking responsibility they feel unsafe. Even if that responsibility is putting them in actual danger. Digging their own grave, I call it. Always ANOTHER reason why something is occuring other than themselves.

People made the church responsible for their souls, look where are now. No one knows their higher self.

We made doctors responsbile for our health, and we're all sick.

We are embroiled culturally in co-dependency.

A co dependent will listen long and hard to the advice one is giving them because they are getting attention. They will not act on this advice, because it may fix the drama. Then they come seeking attention again in the form of asking for advice. When I refuse to give 'more ' advice (which is actualy just the advice previously given) they get angry. I'm not taking responsblity for their ****.

I suppose some awkwardly call this being scared of one's own power. Its not power they're scared of, they crave it actually, but being afraid of responding or..being responsible.

Or every rational peice of advice is deflected or refused because they have no authority to use it. "I can't do that because So-n-So is standing in my way."

Always looking for something external of them to help correct what they perceive is a externally generated problem.

I often note, I don't do anything to defend myself (defending myself means guilt is present) I just wait till they play out enough rope and they hang themselves.

You just never give the co-dependent the control they crave over you. They simply don't know what to do with it and then will ultimately blame you for making them responsible. There's not equitable cooperation because that's not what they want, they want control over their lives , give up that control to others and get in this revolving door of resentment to those they 'perceive' as controlling or denying them of something.

Co-dependent men often accuse me of "playing hard to get". I'm not reallly I'm just not giving them what they want--authority over me. Co -dependent men and women often find me unsympathetic. I am, sympathy tends to emphasis that something out of their control is imposing on them and I just know that isn't true. I KNOW this I mean , done to the bone sort of way so I'm seldom engaged in guilt mechansims anymore. When the co-dependent wants 'symptathy' they want someone taking the guilt.


the most apology I will give is "I'm sorry I forgot that everyone is co-dependent and can't manage themeslves."..lol.

Perversely the co dependent mechanism where one is at fault for everything, they refuse responsiblity not realizing there is difference between the two.

Responsiblity and disagreement aren't neccessarily joined at the hip with cooperation. Sometimes its my responsiblity (the way I respond) to disagree. It doesn't mean I'm not being uncooperative it means I notice incorrectness.

When they are so emotionally driven you really have to not engage with them until that emotional energy has burnt off. That too drives them nuts and runs the risk of them creating control dramas in their head where the guilt heaping mechanism goes into over drive.

Really great post for me here. Thanks. What do you mean here?

A co-dependent tends to break agreements even those they desire because a resolution puts an end to the control drama.

If I do understand it, do you mean that codependency will tend to be resolved by "fleeing" the scene? That means so much to me as I examine how I have been "counter dependent". It left me without any sense of resource.

Since "god" is a projection really, it's like I projected codependency onto "god". I now feel creation and my inner connection. That gives me the first courage I ever felt.

Before I made my connection with Source scary. I felt as if my Source was "god" of vampirism, a "narcissist" (Is Jehovah a narcissist ... the "god" of codependents hehe). These lyrics state my dilemma....

"Yeah, you who must leave everything that you cannot control It begins with your family, but soon it comes 'round to your soul Well I've been where you're hanging and I think I can see how you're pinned Yeah, when you're not feeling holy, your loneliness tells that you've sinned...."

oBFQg7P5YKw

I am feeling more and more Wholey and I will cooperate!!
Love, Maggie

[sygh]

Another part of the waking process is being able to look at life from another point of view. It's a wonderful thing to be able to say... what I am doing is wrong.

Finding one's voice to express not just the feeling of what being awake is like but regaining your ideals about how the world should work and life should be, yes, intent.

[write4change]

The girl is fine, a concussion and nice egg on her head and she's languishing at home now. And I and / or a friend will be wearing the tank of a horse out until she recovers enough to get back on him. Which won,t solve anything but is me taking unneccessary responsbility....lol. Co-dependency strikes again. But if I want her to keep her horse and keep riding that would be my cooperative effort. She will eventually have to take some of her own.

I would imagine 'cooperation' would need examining. Cooperation doesn't neccessarily mean agreement.

I find myself in long conversations revolving about disagree-ing (not arguing). Then a resolution is found after all the disagreement points are weeded out. That's cooperation. Both parties are correct in disagreeing. If not for the disagreement the cooperation place would not be had.

That's how cars are built. If left up to the design team we'd have mechanical failures that looked like gazelles, if left entirely to engineering we'd be driving boxes. So there is a cooperation there that creates a car that is functional and looks well too.

Some people would rather be right than cooperative. Being right is a instant gratification, cooperation tends towards long term fixtures and resolutions.

A co-dependent tends to break agreements even those they desire because a resolution puts an end to the control drama. Because they don't know who they are they don't know what they want, and drama is the only familiar compass point in their lives. Very emotionally generated.

A co dependent's only control over anything is 'being' right not neccessarily correct. (Rather be right than happy).

In order to maintain their right to being right (instead of earning it by being correct) they inflict guilt. Very old programming we've carried in our psyche for thousands of years.

Previously instilled in them is that mechanism that they are responsible for everything--other people's emotional welfare, literally everything. And then in turn this imposition onto others in the form of guilt. If they are right , others are wrong and therefore must be guilty. Then just hammer at person inflicting guilt to maintain that position.

Facts are discarded for 'what they want to hear."

" If I am incorrect about something I then have the authority of my error and can therefore change it" <<<<scary words for the co-dependent.

Life is a big downer because they tend towards craving the factually impossible because denial is a big part of the energy feed. They literally seek out those who will deny them.

I find this in equestrian sports where the trainer is a screamer, a fit thrower, and a drama queen because the student is always denying through their incorrectness the trainer's means of attaining Olympic Glory. The student is there to learn how to ride a horse well. The instructor perceives the student is there to achieve what the instructor has always craved. When the student doesn't perform well enough the instructor feels like the student is denying them their vicarious triumph when the student is entirely clueless and unnerved about this abrasion, wishing only to learn how to ride a horse. The student is then laden with the unweildy burden of being responsiblie for the instructor's emotional welfare. Stage mother syndrome.

Perversely this is why I dropped any esoteric proffesions and entered into the realms of EQ sports. Co-dependency is lethal in eq sports. A nipping it in the bud earlier may be considered my only contribution to humanity. Save for the rare few, a horse will not take care of you. Does not manage your emotional state or cater to it. I tell all my young students, "You can sit on that horse for hours and cry, and he will NOT care.. There is no response until one communicates themselves properly. A horse does not respond to head games, power plays, temper tantrums, pushing, and emotional outbursts". A horse will not cooperate until it is given a correct communication that it can respond to.

This is why the young girl fell from her horse. I had earlier suggested that his bit should be changed out . This advice was refused. The horse didn't take care of its rider nor is it required to if the rider is not taking care of the means of managing the horse. Plus the horse needs to be worked, she got on a hot horse, with no means of controlling the horse assuming the horse will take care of her and he didn't. They seldom ever do but I see this over and over. People crashing over off their horses because they think the horse will take care of them! A few will, and that is sad sorta because the horse has more brains than the rider. Even when the rare horse takes care of its rider, like refusing to gallop because the rider is unbalanced, that causes frustration because the rider wants to run and the horse knows better. The rider then perceives the horse as denying them and the horse is entirely correct.

A horse never assumes guilt or blame. Co-dependency in riding is not allowed, and even lethal. Once co-dependents realize fairly quickly my chosen area of life remains relatively free. People think I'm crazy but this is an avenue of sanity for me.

This is our first point of true awareness, knowing where we are incorrect instead of zombie walking through life. "Gee I just caused that situation. "

"but I'd rather have the situation corrected than defend my incorrectness."

That is our first extertion of our authority--to correct what is in actual error. It doesn't require cooperation. A co dependent will ultimately undermine any sort of cooperative effort because they want the upper hand (even though they are terrorfied of it).

There is no reason why guilt should be present in this sort of endeavor, you are are after taking the measures to correct an incorrect situation.

We erroneously take responsiblity for things that are not ours to take because its easier than attempting to make cooperation with a co-dependent (impossible actually).

But the co dependent doesnt' want correction. They want drama. You can't correct what is going on inside their head, the story they are living in so they bring the drama out and attempt to make you take a role in it. One that is usually of guilt. Every story needs a bad guy.

If we are imposed on that everything is our 'fault' we risk feeling guilty over everything that goes wrong. In assuming responsibility (how we respond) we take authority over a situation. Co-dependents don't have authority-everything is someone elses responsbility. When someone isn't taking responsibility they feel unsafe. Even if that responsibility is putting them in actual danger. Digging their own grave, I call it. Always ANOTHER reason why something is occuring other than themselves.

People made the church responsible for their souls, look where are now. No one knows their higher self.

We made doctors responsbile for our health, and we're all sick.

We are embroiled culturally in co-dependency.

A co dependent will listen long and hard to the advice one is giving them because they are getting attention. They will not act on this advice, because it may fix the drama. Then they come seeking attention again in the form of asking for advice. When I refuse to give 'more ' advice (which is actualy just the advice previously given) they get angry. I'm not taking responsblity for their ****.

I suppose some awkwardly call this being scared of one's own power. Its not power they're scared of, they crave it actually, but being afraid of responding or..being responsible.

Or every rational peice of advice is deflected or refused because they have no authority to use it. "I can't do that because So-n-So is standing in my way."

Always looking for something external of them to help correct what they perceive is a externally generated problem.

I often note, I don't do anything to defend myself (defending myself means guilt is present) I just wait till they play out enough rope and they hang themselves.

You just never give the co-dependent the control they crave over you. They simply don't know what to do with it and then will ultimately blame you for making them responsible. There's not equitable cooperation because that's not what they want, they want control over their lives , give up that control to others and get in this revolving door of resentment to those they 'perceive' as controlling or denying them of something.

Co-dependent men often accuse me of "playing hard to get". I'm not reallly I'm just not giving them what they want--authority over me. Co -dependent men and women often find me unsympathetic. I am, sympathy tends to emphasis that something out of their control is imposing on them and I just know that isn't true. I KNOW this I mean , done to the bone sort of way so I'm seldom engaged in guilt mechansims anymore. When the co-dependent wants 'symptathy' they want someone taking the guilt.


the most apology I will give is "I'm sorry I forgot that everyone is co-dependent and can't manage themeslves."..lol.

Perversely the co dependent mechanism where one is at fault for everything, they refuse responsiblity not realizing there is difference between the two.

Responsiblity and disagreement aren't neccessarily joined at the hip with cooperation. Sometimes its my responsiblity (the way I respond) to disagree. It doesn't mean I'm not being uncooperative it means I notice incorrectness.

When they are so emotionally driven you really have to not engage with them until that emotional energy has burnt off. That too drives them nuts and runs the risk of them creating control dramas in their head where the guilt heaping mechanism goes into over drive.

Eagle, everything you say is true. I now follow your posts to try to understand you as a whole instead of just coming in at the moment. I almost always agree with what you say when you explain it. Your courage to lay it on the line often holds me in awe. But there are things that I could not quite put my finger on til now.

My first husband was a dick, when I still believed that god said I had to obey dicks. When we got a divorce he wanted to sell our daughter in a private adoption, so I know what anger exss can generate regarding our children. The first two years I was stuffed with anger for him. The next two years I turned it on myself for being so stupid to allow it. I am glad I got to work all that out young. And I worked with the Viet Nam vets before I worked with horses. LOL But reading you, I am now aware of how this synthezied for me. Part of what I am trying to do is see if I can explain how I worked my way to being a soveriegn adult.

I know you saw the movie Seabiscuit. It matters I think I that I have always had the stories of role models---not telling me how they did it but showing me it could be done. They made a Seabiscuit movie with Shirley Temple with actual footage of him beating War Admiral. Now anyone who knows anything about horses---a 15.2 hand horse beating a 18 hand horse at a mile and a quarter is almost impossible. So I have seen that most of my life. It still brings tears to my eyes. Those little legs just churning down the stretch and act of sheer will power. The recent movie Seabiscuit shows how the owner, the rider, and the trainer had a synergy going of understanding that is rarely achieved. And this one hell of a smart horse knew them.

Great Horses and Great People

When my daughter died and all I had left were the horses she loved---and they were at the time expensive horses for what they could do--everyone thought I would sell them--and my husband was dying and I needed the money. I turned down 100,000 for My T Maxx who was 17.2 hands. My therapy for my grief was riding everyday instead of seeing a shrink. The universe sent me an Olympic woman rider who didn't get to go in her time because she could not afford the horse. So I started to learn to ride English.

I had riden Western all my life and I had stopped riding a big chair on a horse by getting a suede and lambs wool saddle without a tree and found it much more comfortable and on long solitary walks I found I could feel the horse heart beating under my leg. Even so, getting off the security of Western for the postage stamp of an English saddle was scary. At 52, I took some really bad falls and they hurt a lot. I have never fallen off of Maxx's horses though, I think because I knew them and they knew me. We did things from the beginning in partnership.

I rented other horses in the beginning and my friend alternate riding mine and we rode everyday at noon. I wound up buying for a 1000 dollars a horse I named Riker--he was number two. He was a failed polo horse. I had no idea about that until one day I was out riding and some guy told me about him. He was supposed to be unridable. What he was --- was sick and tired of being hit with a polo stick. We learned to be civilized together. I sold him to another woman for 5000 after a year. LOL

Great Horses and Great People of which I have many many stories are always in partnership and glory in the synergy of it. This is possible. Many relationships are co dependent but there are those that achieve partnership, friendship, and mindmeld. They are also the cross specie understandings. The baby racoon I raised, took baths with, let her sleep in my bed holding my foot. Letting her go back to the woods in her own way through the cat door and come back the same. Finally, she lived in the woods but would come when I called her and I learned how to call her just like I can call the quenie hens.

I read you, I hear you, and I like you---all the raging authenticity. But eagle not every one wants to put a hood and leg clasp on you. Now may not be the time to believe it. You are backing people off with projection. Since I feel I know you, discernment will prevail.

[9eagle9]

We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.

[Sebastion]

Not wanting to miss what you are saying 9eagle9, could you expand on this a wee bit?





We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.

[Bo Atkinson]

Thanks all for sharing your personal and valued, lessons-experienced. Countless personal stories taught me most in this life. With related experience, my heart-mind opens easier and sets pertinent priorities straight.

I never got past bare back riding, though. And that was just by rare chance. I love animals and nature, a welcome dependency there. Perhaps it is the general non-emotional exchanges with animals which is indeed great. I have tended to manage my emotional states, having needed this early in life, to deal with this trait. I've tolerated a little co-degenerency, but ultimately abolish those tendencies. However, sometimes this happens, just a little bit too late.

Speaking of religion is another matter for me. I much prefer not to bash people and must wheel and deal with all walks of life. I've studied histories long enough, to see the many bluffs. But not to disparage the ones who are nearly dejected. Instead i think it fair to look for the things deeper in their eyes, too. So it seems to me, at more personal levels, mutual awarenesses can arise. Not to agree, nor to despise, but rather for just a moment, -to realize-. What is this to them and back at me from them? The histories, who's stories, the veil and where it was that human evolvement went... What will we ever learn? What will we learn?

An old man, long ago, set me up with colloquial eloquence. By demonstrating his self-depricating humor, to deal with the self-guiltiness. He gave me a great explanation, for creatives to say, in case they are "guilt-ed" or put on the spot. As if we were on trial by a society of denials. We'd get demanding questions like "so what are you up to?" To which he would simply reply: "oh, just dubbing around a little". I just love that. Trouble is, i can't always remember it and instead-- Fumble around, outside that box, pulling nails they just don't understand.

[Sebastion]

That's kinda funny wavydome. When people would ask me what I was up to my reply would be "about 245 pounds!". lol..




Thanks all for sharing your personal and valued, lessons-experienced. Countless personal stories taught me most in this life. With related experience, my heart-mind opens easier and sets pertinent priorities straight.

I never got past bare back riding, though. And that was just by rare chance. I love animals and nature, a welcome dependency there. Perhaps it is the general non-emotional exchanges with animals which is indeed great. I have tended to manage my emotional states, having needed this early in life, to deal with this trait. I've tolerated a little co-degenerency, but ultimately abolish those tendencies. However, sometimes this happens, just a little bit too late.

Speaking of religion is another matter for me. I much prefer not to bash people and must wheel and deal with all walks of life. I've studied histories long enough, to see the many bluffs. But not to disparage the ones who are nearly dejected. Instead i think it fair to look for the things deeper in their eyes, too. So it seems to me, at more personal levels, mutual awarenesses can arise. Not to agree, nor to despise, but rather for just a moment, -to realize-. What is this to them and back at me from them? The histories, who's stories, the veil and where it was that human evolvement went... What will we ever learn? What will we learn?

An old man, long ago, set me up with colloquial eloquence. By demonstrating his self-depricating humor, to deal with the self-guiltiness. He gave me a great explanation, for creatives to say, in case they are "guilt-ed" or put on the spot. As if we were on trial by a society of denials. We'd get demanding questions like "so what are you up to?" To which he would simply reply: "oh, just dubbing around a little". I just love that. Trouble is, i can't always remember it and instead-- Fumble around, outside that box, pulling nails they just don't understand.

[Sebastion]

It has been said spiritually speaking, that one has to be willing to give it all up only to get it all back in the end. I never really understood that for what it was until it was all "over". I did discover at one point, much to my surprise, that I had to give up any attachments to the soul body. That notion originally struck me as odd at first because it had never occurred to me that that was possible. If you refer back to the original post on this thread, you will see that you as a source being had to cord in, buy in, to the "idea" of creating and being a soul "light body" to start with, hence the original attachment was born. Severing attachments to anything is the "willing to give it all up", walking the walk, aspect of spiritual evolution, in my experience.

[write4change]

That was Gandhi's power. He was willing to die for his principles and he walked that talk all his life. They have a way of ranking the power of any entity. They also make the difference that force is not power. During his time Gandhi's power was 740 and the British Empire's power was 180.

[9eagle9]

We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. I have a friend so co-dependent that she takes responsiblity for everything so when it is time to help herself, self responsiblity, she is so drained she can't do it, can't help herself and resents having yet another responsiblity imposed on her. When someone else isn't sucking her own energy she's corded into herself walking in circles.

She frets because she has to play peacemaker between her husband and her mother.

So I said, Don't do it. That's their problem if they choose to lock horns.

"Well I want things peaceful"

For who? You or them?

Obviously they don't care about peace if they are creating a constant conflict between them so you see you're efforts are wasted. Do it for yourself.

I got brow beat into that "you have to help people because you can' and its caused me in the past to not know or see things about myself or otherwise limit myself. Why bother acknowledging, accepting or exploring certain aspects of myself when its not going to fit in the box? Its never going to be accepted.

Well no, it won't be unless I accept it. Then once I accept it, well that's all that is required. One stops accepting the unacceptable and reframes into what was perfectly accessable and acceptable the entire time. If I have something its mine why was there always this compulsion to give it away?. One that last 'deities' I cleared out is "if you have something you have to give it away or use it for the advancement of others".

I think a lot of us are conditioned with this in early childhood simply by always having to share with siblings, etc. Sharing of course is a great thing but when it becomes a guilt generated obligation it entirely puts a monkey wrench on energetic reciprocation.

When I stopped doing that, that turned into "Something always taking what belongs to me"

I suspect my whole custody/support order battle right now is a challenge I'm presented with to show how well I've learned this. "Your not taking whats mine, one because what you are attempting to take is not mine to begin with..."Lol. The more I entrench myself in this the more the limitations fall away.

When I said No to that things really started spinning forward for me.

I live in an area where there's a lot of power outages, so I am prepared always for a power outage. So one day the juice goes out and I go to start my generator. Not there. So I call the young man who rents my workshop and he has my generator. Why?

Because his family is out of power and so he.....took my generator. Do the math, lady!! Don't you get it? We don't have a generator so we helped ourselves to yours! Duh!


The generator is a physical symbol of what is occuring here. Someone literally stealing my energy. WHY? Scarcity, need, neediness, co-dependency!

SO...I'm thinking "you are single woman on what MIGHT appear to be a fixed income, and you have to give away your generator to a family who lives in half million dollar house, with five incomes present in it, who don't bother to prepare for such events even though they are as well aware of our power outages as I am. Yes they are all helpless idiots who shouldn't be living in the country but why is THAT my problem. I didn't create their circumstances. What is WRONG with this picture?

No, bring my generator back.

But we are out of power.

I know. Bring my generator back. And get it out of your head that you are more entitled to my generator that I am. You're not.

My words for these sorts of people are becoming fewer as the emotional outrage ceases because the emotional triggers are being cleared out. Two nights ago I'm awoken at 230 in the morning with voices screaming and laughing beneath my bedroom.Same young man and his friends.

And I'm thinking , Why? Why why why? Because I'm laying in bed allowing it. So I get up , go downstairs to the shop and say very loudly, GOOD NIGHT.

"oh, we're just looking at this pop dispenser"

(????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Uh-huh. Do it at three in the afternoon.

So you see why I can't agree with Write4's implication that I project things. People provide their own evidence. How I respond to their programing is what will chain me if I make agreement with it. . I don't perceive people attempting to chain me , because they can't. Their programmed, they have no power to do so. However, I am aware of how I could just go into agreement with that programming. That's what co dependency is, attempting to shackle others but we hold the key, that which would limit us and that is agreement or acceptance of something unacceptable.

Once one becomes aware one sees it all over in big ways and small. I am often accused of projection but social programming is so predictibale you just predict whats going to occur because it happens over and over like the sun rising. Providing their own evidence in action and speech. Then one makes the choice to go into a agreement with it which we often do unconsciously. There's tacit agreement. My ex husband is always screaming that he won't give up custody of his daughter. Durhhh, dumbass you gave up custody of her years ago, how else has she been living in my home for all this time???!! Tacit agreement.

And thats it. Because they are sheep, they are programmed to bow to authority I just have to flex my self authority. Of course they feel like I'm imposing on them. Previously conditioned for some unknown reason I just had to put up this sort of crap in a perverted 'saving others' way. Saving them from what? Their own assholery!!?? Which allows it to continue, to where I will one be called upon to save them from it again....lol. Goodbye energy. Who is more entitled to my energy then me? No one!

Who is creating these conditions though. Not me. I am responding to them. Now there's no reason to get angry or outraged (more energy loss) because .....my own authority over myself takes care of it once I knew it was mine to flex.

But you have to accept, KNOW you have it. When you do the universe really kicks in, Recently the township made a law that we couldn't own roosters because they are too loud. That is the result of herds of city people coming to live in the country not realizing its loud in a different way out here--one them being livestock. So what has to change? The livestock of course!

Not long after this law was made one of my hens began crowing like a rooster. The law can't make me give her up because.....she's a hen, not a rooster. The universe has a perverse sense of humor. I'm sure the people without their own self authority don't find it amusing.


I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.

In 20 years of estoeric practice the only people I've managed to 'serve' are those who are willing to manage themselve and means accepting all aspects of one's self as it really is. We have people who prefer to believe they are really just otherworldly unicorns stuffed into and suffering in a human body, instead of just saying I'm a human with unlimited potential. The unicorn person is limited by their humanity but a human who doesn't limit their humanity is an unlimited human...lol.


And then I watch people who can't find joy in their uniqueness and want to be beocme 'just another witch' ride with the herd all the time instead of finding out who they are, and exploring how their many lives have shaped them, their experiences from this life. They want to be something or someone rather than who they are assigning who they are as meaningless and then attempting to abate that meaninglessness by joining a group of mundaneness. They spend all their time attempting to make their very mediocrity they've chosen into something speical , instead of just allowing their unique expression.

Everything every experience we've ever had has shaped us in different ways and brought us all to this very point in time.

Our own comfort levels limit us. One of my friends always complains during her riding lessons that she's not comfortable. Rigging one's self in hot heavy leather and hurtlign around on a unpredictable animal is not my idea of comfort either. So let's dismount go sit on the couch and have a beer.

She got it.

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves.

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.








Not wanting to miss what you are saying 9eagle9, could you expand on this a wee bit?





We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.

[Sebastion]

This thread has in many ways defied a lot deities (ideas) across this forum as evidenced by the lack of any wide spread interest in posting to it. I knew that it was blasphemous for me, not only to say that the Heart of One "IS", but that I had merged with that great Love as well. After all the great Guru Iknowitall-ananda never mentioned it, so it cannot be.

Therefore there is no such thing as the great Heart, sorry pal, you are really out to lunch! Be that as it may as I don't ask anyone to believe what has been said but yet, to consider it.

Reasoning it out, I don't think that the "ONE" could/would create anything that is outside of ITS nature. IT also has no need to prove ITSELF. All the clues can be found in nature in simple understandings. For example: What is the first organ that is formed in an embryo? The heart. Apart from pumping blood, what properties are assigned to the heart? Love.

Do you not see something symbolic here? Is that not symbolic enough?

It is interesting to note as well that it's the hearts pumping of blood that gives/allows the brain and body life. If that is true with physical bodies, please tell me how it could not be true for the greater "body" of the ONE, ITSELF?

I would tell you that it is the great Heart of the One, Love Absolute, that gives rise to the Mind of the One and thus all created things as ideas and ideas in form.

Please forgive me now as I see that I have blasphemed yet again....

[conk]

Looking through your own eyes from an energetic perspective, one may note that the most important "tool" at your command is your own attention. Your attention is under your control. The little trick here is to be aware of where your attention is being focused and remaining in that awareness of where your attention is focused can sometimes be easier said then done!

Your attention is your point of power. That's why everything outside of you is screaming for your attention. Never underestimate how powerful your attention can be-take a look, become aware of it and become the master of your own point of power.

Remember, wherever your head goes, your butt is bound to follow! Meditation/contemplation periods go along way towards allowing/assisting you to begin to deliberately focus and gather your own energy in a powerful, peaceful and loving way. In Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, he states, "The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to what we are being".

Re: The heart and it's forming first in the developmental stages. It forms before the brain and it has neurons. The heart is the brain of the soul?

[9eagle9]

That is a good point Conk and its seldom surface conscious things that make our being but more aptly expressed as one's vibrational point.

Core Essence.

That is what allows me to ponder what some might view as negative thoughts without effecting my vibration.

[Delight]

We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.



We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.


Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

[9eagle9]

After you yak up most of your gurk those rituals don't do the same thing or have the same effect. People who have worked on cleaning up their inner landscape and then attended that sort of ritual described much of what you did and the same reaction. At the most it was a somewhat lowkey event but not the fraught purging parties that have been described.

There is a time when one would think now that you've purged all the lies and dieties you've laid claim to now its a time to explore what is in alighnment with one's self, which also reminds me of what you have described.

The Healing Trap is a viscious paradigm where the healer is not a healer unless something is wrong with someone. If nothing is wrong what would the Healer do. A healer has to find something wrong in order to heal you.

I've never not once ever had an estoeric healer ever express to me anything about my own alignment. The ones I ultimately ended up benefiting from were the ones who said "its what you think is wrong with you, not what is actually wrong with you."

Conversely what we think is right about ourselves can be as daunting.

On the other end of the stick the highest levels a healer can achieve is "do nothing".

[jorr lundstrom]

Many yers ago living with a schaman from time to time, when I
described my problems to him, he used to look at me and say:
Are you stupid or something, why do you cling to ideas of
problems you actually dont have? LOL Well having programmed
myself with a lot of BS probaly made me feel being somebody.
Any BS seemed better than nothing, before experiencing that
nothing is more that enough. LOL


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/verlevare-1.jpg


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Sebastion]

Hi Conk:

The heart is the brain of the soul? An interesting question, indeed. Kinda tough to answer it in that vein. It's much closer to the truth to say that Love Absolute is the heart of the soul. It is the "smaller" Love which can be used to seek the "greater" Love of the One Heart. In that case, the greater Love will lead you every step of the way! IT will lead you and the "way" will be made known to you, step by step and I would bet that it would be in your own unique way. I will add more to this in an additional post, so bear with me!






Looking through your own eyes from an energetic perspective, one may note that the most important "tool" at your command is your own attention. Your attention is under your control. The little trick here is to be aware of where your attention is being focused and remaining in that awareness of where your attention is focused can sometimes be easier said then done!

Your attention is your point of power. That's why everything outside of you is screaming for your attention. Never underestimate how powerful your attention can be-take a look, become aware of it and become the master of your own point of power.

Remember, wherever your head goes, your butt is bound to follow! Meditation/contemplation periods go along way towards allowing/assisting you to begin to deliberately focus and gather your own energy in a powerful, peaceful and loving way. In Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, he states, "The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to what we are being".

Re: The heart and it's forming first in the developmental stages. It forms before the brain and it has neurons. The heart is the brain of the soul?

[Sebastion]

Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!






We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.



We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.


Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

[9eagle9]

Oh the good old eagle feathers.

I was sitting in my car at a stop light and there was a field of horses on the other side of the road. There's this medicine man with me , so I nudge him and said look at the red horse. He looks and moment the horse raises its head looks right at the car and trots over the fence and stares right into the car.

So then the medicine dude gives me four eagle feathers and says , since you have these , you can call eagles.

So...I tried to call the eagles and I couldn't.

So I was told you're doing it for the wrong reasons. So this goes on for a year , where I am told "You CAN call eagles! Just call the eagles!!! What's are doing? JUST. CALL. THE . EAGLES!!

I can't.

YOU CAN. Call them the same way you do horses.

So I'm like Okay...uhm....eagles come here! Where are the eagles?

No eagles. But suddenly shortly after I had contact with certain people they were seeing eagles zooming all over their heads. Eagles everywhere. Eagles were coming to roost in their neighborhood. What? Some cosmic joke?

I'm sitting in a resturant one day and I call eagles. A hawk zooms down the street and strikes the window next to my table.

Oops.

I can't do this.


YES YOU CAN! JUST CALL THE EAGLES DAMMIT!

So one day long after I gave up I'm driving in my car on this long road trip. And I think to myself , you know I want to see an eagle.

So a bare minute later I come around this corner in the Xway and there's huge oil tank off the side of the road with three story high eagle emblazoned on it.

Oh ha ha very funny.

So I said NO. I want to see a real eagle!!! And not long after that I looked up through my sun roof and there was two of them flying over the car.

So I called the medicine man who gave me the feathers and he told me . Fine tune that.

So know now its I AM going to see eagles.

And then they come.

But I have to want them, I can't 'think' that I want them, I have to want to see them.

I had to give them the same consideration I give horses.



Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!






We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.



We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.


Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

[Sebastion]

Very cool story 9eagle9...thank you




Oh the good old eagle feathers.

I was sitting in my car at a stop light and there was a field of horses on the other side of the road. There's this medicine man with me , so I nudge him and said look at the red horse. He looks and moment the horse raises its head looks right at the car and trots over the fence and stares right into the car.

So then the medicine dude gives me four eagle feathers and says , since you have these , you can call eagles.

So...I tried to call the eagles and I couldn't.

So I was told you're doing it for the wrong reasons. So this goes on for a year , where I am told "You CAN call eagles! Just call the eagles!!! What's are doing? JUST. CALL. THE . EAGLES!!

I can't.

YOU CAN. Call them the same way you do horses.

So I'm like Okay...uhm....eagles come here! Where are the eagles?

No eagles. But suddenly shortly after I had contact with certain people they were seeing eagles zooming all over their heads. Eagles everywhere. Eagles were coming to roost in their neighborhood. What? Some cosmic joke?

I'm sitting in a resturant one day and I call eagles. A hawk zooms down the street and strikes the window next to my table.

Oops.

I can't do this.


YES YOU CAN! JUST CALL THE EAGLES DAMMIT!

So one day long after I gave up I'm driving in my car on this long road trip. And I think to myself , you know I want to see an eagle.

So a bare minute later I come around this corner in the Xway and there's huge oil tank off the side of the road with three story high eagle emblazoned on it.

Oh ha ha very funny.

So I said NO. I want to see a real eagle!!! And not long after that I looked up through my sun roof and there was two of them flying over the car.

So I called the medicine man who gave me the feathers and he told me . Fine tune that.

So know now its I AM going to see eagles.

And then they come.

But I have to want them, I can't 'think' that I want them, I have to want to see them.

I had to give them the same consideration I give horses.



Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!






We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.



We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.


Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hi Jorr:

It does take a big load off and feels great doesn't it! lol





Many yers ago living with a schaman from time to time, when I
described my problems to him, he used to look at me and say:
Are you stupid or something, why do you cling to ideas of
problems you actually dont have? LOL Well having programmed
myself with a lot of BS probaly made me feel being somebody.
Any BS seemed better than nothing, before experiencing that
nothing is more that enough. LOL


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/verlevare-1.jpg


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Delight]

Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!


That's a swell story as well as 9eale9 and her wanting into versus thinking into the eagles.
I am not knocking shaman or medicine. My "group" experience was entirely orchestrated by gringos with the rules which I will knock off my list. I live with the medicine plants here in my house. They are wonderful friends. They helped me alot in ceremony.... But the structure of how to be with them ....not so much.....Making friends is what I like now....egalitarian face to face, everything about being as truthful and spontaneous as possible. Humble is knowing that I am certainly not the wiser of any being, not the plants, not the animals...I am sure we are all equally valuable and can learn from one another when we "want" to be in contact. I just want to be allowed to be as appropriate as the next being. Group space does not seem to be about that as I have refereneced with the struggle in "social" situations (including the codependency dance yadda yadda..... I do not plan to fight the system, just stop needing the system.

[9eagle9]

Mine was too, I had to get away from the whole group thing years ago. I could explain why but it basically amounts to just such a drain constantly jostling for position that just mean you got stuck between people's elbows all the times. The energy drain trying to hold space was so bad. Like being filled with concrete and kept thinking 'what is wrong with me that I'm so exhausted by all this'.

Shouldn't it be uplifting?. No because the group got stuck.

Just energy drain. And you don't like to think that of people and its not like they were doing intentionally , and few were, but soooo draining.

[Sebastion]

I must say that I was never really aware of plants being able to produce shamanic type trips. Marajuana was about the only one I knew about only after I had entered the military. Got my drinking days over in the military as well. I found that there was nothing in it for me. I also developed a great aversion to consuming anything whatever that might interfere with mental clarity, even to refusing to take aspirins or pills of any kind. Had a few doctors kick me out of their office as I refused taking their prescriptions even for back pain! lol






Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!


That's a swell story as well as 9eale9 and her wanting into versus thinking into the eagles.
I am not knocking shaman or medicine. My "group" experience was entirely orchestrated by gringos with the rules which I will knock off my list. I live with the medicine plants here in my house. They are wonderful friends. They helped me alot in ceremony.... But the structure of how to be with them ....not so much.....Making friends is what I like now....egalitarian face to face, everything about being as truthful and spontaneous as possible. Humble is knowing that I am certainly not the wiser of any being, not the plants, not the animals...I am sure we are all equally valuable and can learn from one another when we "want" to be in contact. I just want to be allowed to be as appropriate as the next being. Group space does not seem to be about that as I have refereneced with the struggle in "social" situations (including the codependency dance yadda yadda..... I do not plan to fight the system, just stop needing the system.

[Sebastion]

In what will be an extremely inadequate attempt to finish Conk's question, that being: Is the heart the brain of the soul?, I find that it does bring up a need to more fully explain that which can't be explained. lol Keep in mind that any words used are but dim shadows, if even that. Love Absolute, in my-oh so-human translation is the rhythmic, balanced interchange of Masculine/Feminine Love energy, merging and blending in a continuous dance that is so deep, profound, Holy, exquisite and so very far beyond those words that meaning is lost. It is impossible to fathom. IT is wholly complete needing nothing outside, as there is no outside as it is already ALL. Anything else is inconceivable. There is only Love, Itself.

Knowing that, I tried several times to contemplate how anything beyond the Heart could possibly have come into existence. Trying to contemplate that is literally to contemplate insanity. I have a theory, an educated guess but that is all and nature itself supports it. Thinking in the Heart would consist only of finding greater depths to express/experience Love ever more deeply between the Masculine/Feminine energies. I would apologize for words are useless.

[Delight]

In what will be an extremely inadequate attempt to finish Conk's question, that being: Is the heart the brain of the soul?, I find that it does bring up a need to more fully explain that which can't be explained. lol Keep in mind that any words used are but dim shadows, if even that. Love Absolute, in my-oh so-human translation is the rhythmic, balanced interchange of Masculine/Feminine Love energy, merging and blending in a continuous dance that is so deep, profound, Holy, exquisite and so very far beyond those words that meaning is lost. It is impossible to fathom. IT is wholly complete needing nothing outside, as there is no outside as it is already ALL. Anything else is inconceivable. There is only Love, Itself.

Knowing that, I tried several times to contemplate how anything beyond the Heart could possibly have come into existence. Trying to contemplate that is literally to contemplate insanity. I have a theory, an educated guess but that is all and nature itself supports it. Thinking in the Heart would consist only of finding greater depths to express/experience Love ever more deeply between the Masculine/Feminine energies. I would apologize for words are useless.

I really like your thread Sebastian. The energy here has an accepting sense of nonjudgement that takes everything in and breathes it out lovelier. Must be your energy??

Something that I have been pondering today has to do with polarities of inside/out, animal body/soul, masculine/feminine. I read something that struck me. When unconscious people fall in love, they project their soul onto the beloved literally sending off their soul. A man's soul is feminine and a woman's masculine. Then one longs for the other but it is just longing for having sent the soul off. Then the person wants the soul back and brings it back.....again unconscious ...... and sees the "beloved" and asks "What made me feel this person was xyz (whatever his/her soul "looks like"). It would be fun to get into what relationships between clear feeling nonprojective feel like. I have not yet.

I am still romancing my inner male. And fractally, is he balancing a feminine polarity? Fractals within fractals of balance? He is what wants to write and think of ideas and philosophize...silly guy that he is? At any rate, I responded to your post with "Someone in me don't wanna give up the thinking." Good observation on the way to a wedding.

I have often felt very masculine inside which apparenetly is getting more in touch with my masculine polarity soul.

On a similar note, I remember Inelia Benz said that the work for a typically human woman is to activate power and for a man to activate unconditional love. That makes sense. Then I was meditating on what about men I really appreciate and it was when a man can become able to talk of love like Rumi speaks.

If I merge with my soul as a masculine polarity becoming neither male nor female, can I feel everything even more or does it become silent?. When I am feeling fully integrated, I am No Gender at all...... then even better when I am deeply accessing, I am nothing at all. Even there power/love exist but not in ideations, it just IS.

[Sebastion]

I am now even more appreciative of what ljwheat has said about language and the tower of Babel. After thinking more about what I have written in the description of the Heart of One, I can see now from a certain perspective and point of view, that putting words together in any way regarding the Heart, is tantamount to and borders on a defilement. I will refrain from anymore descriptions in that regard.

I can now see more clearly than ever how language has severely hampered, impaired and enslaved the human mind. It is not a pleasant realization by any means.

[9eagle9]

Nearly all plants are plant spirit helpers. The ones that get the most credit would be those what help with transcending events. Transcending events typically are those that help one over come or transcend themselves. Ceremonies where plant helpers or euthogens are used.

Plants that help to transcend on a less sensational level would be willow--willow bark--to transcend physical pain. The 'guru' plants stole the show but they are all plant helpers. Indigenous people know this more , they have common plants they venerate like cedar and sage for their plant helper spirit properties. Plants speak. The basic way a plant communicates to us is by the mouth. What it tastes like.

The druids, understanding they'd be cut off from their plant helpers, trancended that and employed energetic means of with plants and trees. No physical plant in any form needed to be present, the spirit of the plant helper was invited in covertly. This is rather reduced these days to people who acknowledge that druids spoke to trees. That was communing with the trees. An act of Communion which now means something far different. A druid would place a leaf of tree on the tongue to commune with it. Now....people stick foam wafers in their mouth and...........probably don't get the same effect...lol.

Our whole life here in this incarnation seems to revolve around what replacing what is real with something artifical or a futile substitute.

Plants were once named so one could know what they helped with. Like Loveage. A plant that helped with matters of the heart emotional and spiritually.

Plants have companion plants and companion components that help them.

Interestingly enough we began to be forced apart from our plant guides by modern medicine that isolated the component they thought was responsible for achieving a curative effect. Those medicines became less effective because the component got cut off from certain sources that helped it to achieve the wholeness effect.

Made less whole. Reflective of what happened to us , cut off from Source.

Witches used to grow Rowan trees outside their kitchens to be companion plants. Like a tree familar.

In the hysteria of the chemtrail and EM assaults we experience, people fail to see what trees are doing to abate the chemtrail effect, so even though many have forgotten plant spirit helpers they are in fact still helping.

Citrus trees don't grow well in the north and the reason is they 'can't help here'. Citrus cools the body down and us northerners have to have foods that warm the body. We have more warming type plant helper foods, conversely don't grow well in warmer climes.

Plant spirits, condensed plant spirits like essential oils and alcohol. Called that for a reason, it does have a spiritual effect on the body. Beers used to be brewed with herbs. That got corrupted as well. Once we ingested 'spirit's we didn't know what to do after that.

Speaking in terms of energy medicine the liver is where toxic emotions are stored. The liver itself is a detoxifier. Spirits break down those toxic emotions which is why you see people weep or fly into rages often times when they drink. But they were not taught what to do during this time to free themselves from the toxicity of the emotion so it would just imbed again.

What modern medicine referse to as alchoholism is a symptom of self medication. It's an act of intuition one is not aware of why they are during it, a clumsy attempt at self medication.

Isn't it interesting that the powers that be and their artifical medicines on one hand proclaim the dis-effectiveness of herbs, plants and botanicals and on the other hand stringently keep pushing to have them codexed and made unavailable. If they don't help, why bother?

Because they do.


I must say that I was never really aware of plants being able to produce shamanic type trips. Marajuana was about the only one I knew about only after I had entered the military. Got my drinking days over in the military as well. I found that there was nothing in it for me. I also developed a great aversion to consuming anything whatever that might interfere with mental clarity, even to refusing to take aspirins or pills of any kind. Had a few doctors kick me out of their office as I refused taking their prescriptions even for back pain! lol






Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!


That's a swell story as well as 9eale9 and her wanting into versus thinking into the eagles.
I am not knocking shaman or medicine. My "group" experience was entirely orchestrated by gringos with the rules which I will knock off my list. I live with the medicine plants here in my house. They are wonderful friends. They helped me alot in ceremony.... But the structure of how to be with them ....not so much.....Making friends is what I like now....egalitarian face to face, everything about being as truthful and spontaneous as possible. Humble is knowing that I am certainly not the wiser of any being, not the plants, not the animals...I am sure we are all equally valuable and can learn from one another when we "want" to be in contact. I just want to be allowed to be as appropriate as the next being. Group space does not seem to be about that as I have refereneced with the struggle in "social" situations (including the codependency dance yadda yadda..... I do not plan to fight the system, just stop needing the system.

[9eagle9]

It does seem like that system of substituting language for the actual expression of the heart has further disconnected us from it. Jorr mentioned in another thread that even unconditional love has become a condition.

Lol, every time we open our mouths we create another condition. Spell casting!




I am now even more appreciative of what ljwheat has said about language and the tower of Babel. After thinking more about what I have written in the description of the Heart of One, I can see now from a certain perspective and point of view, that putting words together in any way regarding the Heart, is tantamount to and borders on a defilement. I will refrain from anymore descriptions in that regard.

I can now see more clearly than ever how language has severely hampered, impaired and enslaved the human mind. It is not a pleasant realization by any means.

[Sebastion]

You are touching in on a subject that goes about as deep into your core being as it gets. And it gets really, really deep! It is a subject relatively few are aware of and even fewer still would delve into that, because it opens up a serious can of worms, potentially. And beside that on the surface, it would appear to be a frivolity. For me personally, I can assure you that it was anything but frivolous.

When you begin addressing the masculine and feminine within you, you begin addressing the core essence of you as a source being. I was at one time, hard core masculine. For me to think that there was any aspect within me that was feminine was patently obsurd-those are fighting words!

I would have a tendency to think that any language that would be necessary to use regarding the masculine/feminine would be foreign to most and not readily understood. In my headlong pursuit of the unvarnished truth of what is, there were many exposures to the light/dark side of the masculine and the light/dark side of the feminine. It was some extremely heavy duty learning. The most scary and hideous thing I have ever encountered was the dark side of the feminine.

It has been said that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, boy is that an understatement!






In what will be an extremely inadequate attempt to finish Conk's question, that being: Is the heart the brain of the soul?, I find that it does bring up a need to more fully explain that which can't be explained. lol Keep in mind that any words used are but dim shadows, if even that. Love Absolute, in my-oh so-human translation is the rhythmic, balanced interchange of Masculine/Feminine Love energy, merging and blending in a continuous dance that is so deep, profound, Holy, exquisite and so very far beyond those words that meaning is lost. It is impossible to fathom. IT is wholly complete needing nothing outside, as there is no outside as it is already ALL. Anything else is inconceivable. There is only Love, Itself.

Knowing that, I tried several times to contemplate how anything beyond the Heart could possibly have come into existence. Trying to contemplate that is literally to contemplate insanity. I have a theory, an educated guess but that is all and nature itself supports it. Thinking in the Heart would consist only of finding greater depths to express/experience Love ever more deeply between the Masculine/Feminine energies. I would apologize for words are useless.

I really like your thread Sebastian. The energy here has an accepting sense of nonjudgement that takes everything in and breathes it out lovelier. Must be your energy??

Something that I have been pondering today has to do with polarities of inside/out, animal body/soul, masculine/feminine. I read something that struck me. When unconscious people fall in love, they project their soul onto the beloved literally sending off their soul. A man's soul is feminine and a woman's masculine. Then one longs for the other but it is just longing for having sent the soul off. Then the person wants the soul back and brings it back.....again unconscious ...... and sees the "beloved" and asks "What made me feel this person was xyz (whatever his/her soul "looks like"). It would be fun to get into what relationships between clear feeling nonprojective feel like. I have not yet.

I am still romancing my inner male. And fractally, is he balancing a feminine polarity? Fractals within fractals of balance? He is what wants to write and think of ideas and philosophize...silly guy that he is? At any rate, I responded to your post with "Someone in me don't wanna give up the thinking." Good observation on the way to a wedding.

I have often felt very masculine inside which apparenetly is getting more in touch with my masculine polarity soul.

On a similar note, I remember Inelia Benz said that the work for a typically human woman is to activate power and for a man to activate unconditional love. That makes sense. Then I was meditating on what about men I really appreciate and it was when a man can become able to talk of love like Rumi speaks.

If I merge with my soul as a masculine polarity becoming neither male nor female, can I feel everything even more or does it become silent?. When I am feeling fully integrated, I am No Gender at all...... then even better when I am deeply accessing, I am nothing at all. Even there power/love exist but not in ideations, it just IS.

[9eagle9]

I just noticed this in Sebastions quoted post.

On a similar note, I remember Inelia Benz said that the work for a typically human woman is to activate power and for a man to activate unconditional love. That makes sense. Then I was meditating on what about men I really appreciate and it was when a man can become able to talk of love like Rumi speaks.


I probably will never know just how hard it is for men to activate unconditional love but I do know how hard it is for women to activate power. Or perhaps not so much as activation but expression.
Even in spiritual circles it is still unacceptable for women to have power and to express it.A lot of people still feel much safer as 'power as a thought' instead of an expression. I've watched in this forum where a man says something and its okay, yeah, great 'thanks all over'. But if a woman says it.....ooooo...Not okay....lol. The woman is wrong in some fashion even though the very same thing has been expressed. "Not nice'. Power is seldom nice. Get struck by lightening and we'll see how nice it is. A storm isn't nice, its very convoluted on what power should be.

Percieved as a woman stealing a man's power. If a woman has power why should she have to steal it?

"Female power SHOULD still have conditions on it and power doesn't."

The lightening doesn't care that you're sitting in an easy chair , it strikes anyway. You can't negotiate it or condition it by saying,' I'm in my house with rubber shoes on, you can't strike me! '

Powerful women don't care (if they did it would be further conditioning). Women's power chastisement is really just another way of putting a condition on their power so others feel safe. So in this age of the 'emergence of the divine female principal' you see more molding of what women's power should be....rather than what it is. More often by men making this modeling. Posting up videos that remind one of feminine hygiene commercials. "Look how powerful I am, I can dance on a beach with white shorts on!" How much power that does that take? None really. I notice that none of these videos show a woman dancing naked in the sleet in the middle of a blizzard....lol. How easy is it to dance on a beach? Pretty darn easy here for a woman who trudges knee high in manure everyday and convinces herself that its 'just mud'.

It does take quite a lot of energy expenditure to fly to a beach, buy the white shorts and dance all over the place and what has been demonstrated exactly?

Because much of this is promoted by men not in touch with the unconditional side of things we end up with soft patriachal. Women can have power--on their terms. They can have it as long as they don't express it. But if you have it, its going to be expressed. If you have blonde hair its going to be expressed somehow. If have anything it will be expressed unless one has put conditions on it.

So we still have the opposing core values at play here. Women should be powerful but the moment they are its wrong because power in general is misunderstood.

I see these men get caught in the female divine power trap, which are conditions. You are shown a man weeping in a corner over the beauty of butterflies and he's expressing his female side.

i know many powerful women, I don't know of any of them that do that or give that over as their favored means of power expression.....lol...In fact I don't know any women who do that.

We also make the mistake of thinking that getting into our shakti, our women's power is expressing the male side. Women have their own sort of power. When a mother bear rips someone a new one because they've threatened her cubs that's not a mother bear accessing the male bear's power--that's hers. She owns and shes not afraid to express it.

If that was male power we were expressing males wouldn't be threatened by it. I do have a well developed masculine side, but it doesn't express in ways like that. When its expressed men are not threatened by it but are accepting of it.

Power is power and maybe putting assigning it those sorts of value is still conditioning although it does better help us manage or evolve through these paradigms. We risk creating further duality with it.

Energy tends to have variances only because of the density it moves through. Love is power. Unconditional love is power. I'm thinking we have the same power and its just expressed differently because of the density of conditions imposed on it. The physical body or aspects seems to be an entirely different species but the power appears to remain the same.

while I won't know how hard it is for a man to express the unconditional I do see very much how they express that love via conditioned channels. They begin to state such and such conditions must be expressed before love can be completed. Already setting up conditions of lack if one of those conditions are not met. (of course women do this too) Painting a picture of what the future of love should be. You have to be this and this and this mother, maiden, crone, best friend, lover, wife, cook, maid, whore in bed, virginal and chaste out of the bed. Love just collapses under the weight of all those conditions such obligation put on it that it dries up before it can grow. Instead of just allowing it to express and evolve the relationships between people. Drying up perhaps isn't a good term, its just not allowed in. How unbalanced relationships occur until the loss of energy on one side becomes so great its either leave the relationship or have one's own self wither.

Mohammad wouldn't go to the mountain so the mountain went to Mohammad? Can you imagine.

[Sebastion]

And that is why the use of language really, really sucks. It has perverted so much that it is almost incomprehensible to imagine!



It does seem like that system of substituting language for the actual expression of the heart has further disconnected us from it. Jorr mentioned in another thread that even unconditional love has become a condition.

Lol, every time we open our mouths we create another condition. Spell casting!




I am now even more appreciative of what ljwheat has said about language and the tower of Babel. After thinking more about what I have written in the description of the Heart of One, I can see now from a certain perspective and point of view, that putting words together in any way regarding the Heart, is tantamount to and borders on a defilement. I will refrain from anymore descriptions in that regard.

I can now see more clearly than ever how language has severely hampered, impaired and enslaved the human mind. It is not a pleasant realization by any means.

[ljwheat]

It does seem like that system of substituting language for the actual expression of the heart has further disconnected us from it. Jorr mentioned in another thread that even unconditional love has become a condition.

Lol, every time we open our mouths we create another condition. Spell casting!




I am now even more appreciative of what ljwheat has said about language and the tower of Babel. After thinking more about what I have written in the description of the Heart of One, I can see now from a certain perspective and point of view, that putting words together in any way regarding the Heart, is tantamount to and borders on a defilement. I will refrain from anymore descriptions in that regard.

I can now see more clearly than ever how language has severely hampered, impaired and enslaved the human mind. It is not a pleasant realization by any means.

Plants: a study using a very sanative electromagnetic tiny pick up sensors attached to a spider sitting on a plant and a separate device attached to the plant. Found that the plant knew a split second before the spider was going to move, moved.

Another test showing how the plant knew a human in another room, was about to stand up and head in its direction the moment the humans thoughts pondered the idea of getting up and going into the room were the plant was.

A pet dog, asleep on the couch, wakes up and dances around the house when its human owner heads for the door to come home from work across town.

The leaf the shaman places on the tongue 9eagle9 spoke of was it the leaf or the idea of the leafs owner source of the tree the shaman was connecting with?

A tangerine the thought opens the memory engrained on the energy stored on the minds ability to communicate energy, pure energy un corrupted or defiled by language the is-ness that connects all things with out labels (words) getting in the way. To know its completeness (no words needed) as energy connects with its self.

Inject the impurity of words or words that have been tampered with or injected like a vaccine with a micro chip energy blocker. Wa Laa you have the fall of men and babble I don’t under stand a word your saying. Bla bla bla.

The essence of nature is as everything in this universe is vibration and energy. Free flowing, the smell of honey is a vibration to the brain pure and uninterrupted, the sight of a beautiful sun set is pure undefiled energy throw energy to the brain with the eye’s no distortion. The taste of clean air is a vibration of pure love vibration to the brain deeply in hailed, when we meditate, stopping the words pushing them aside so the nature that we are.

The true energy of the (is) flows totally connected to itself. Words are the disconnected (VEIL) we have trouble getting passed. Move the words out of the way and suddenly the connection is made, threw intention energy at the sending hits the reciever the intention--- (is) focused to. A tree, a dog, a person, a spider. Nature uncorrupted by words. all the senses are one, connected to the brain,--words are in the brain and not one of the 6 senses. words are in the brain, why? who put them there. sences connect us to others senses -- not words. I see you is a sense connection not a verbal one. as Namaste is a vibrational connection not a verbal one.

"If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."

Replace the (speaking) in the above phrase with “communicating” and the word (language) with “vibration” undefiled energy transfer, connecting with each other as nature dose. A hole different ball game emerges. deep deep deep lets inject words to stop this deepness. so no one can ever be on the same page ever again.:tape2:

A tangerine suddenly has the same taste, look, and feel, to all nature, everything séances, feels, see’s, tastes the flavors. All who make contact with the energy of the tangerine, suddenly connects with “ I SEE YOU” pure communication. MMMMMmmmm tangerine. (is) on the same page with all that (is),-- energy no deceptions, how can a tangerine taste like a orange? It cant but put a lot of words and distort the crap out of it. For what purpose?

You have free will, but first let us babble up your language for you first. Now go ahead and play the game of life, while the rest of nature functions in perfect harmony, We can not even see ourselves in the mirror placed before us. And this person who did this to us is called GOD? Which makes me a codependent slave.

My turn to blaspheme the religion of “ in the beginning was the word, and the word was with GOD.” that idiot has a BIG EGO, don’t you think? :jaw: ooops :tape2:

[9eagle9]

Whores of Babble-On.

[Sebastion]

ljwheat, 9eagle9 and Jorr-I find that your words are re-awakening within me a deeper reverence for "life" itself. I am beginning now to see why I have ever had the desire to become an old fashioned mountain man, free from language and free from all arrogance. A complete communion with all that is, in deep appreciation, a reverence, for all that is.......thank you.....





It does seem like that system of substituting language for the actual expression of the heart has further disconnected us from it. Jorr mentioned in another thread that even unconditional love has become a condition.

Lol, every time we open our mouths we create another condition. Spell casting!




I am now even more appreciative of what ljwheat has said about language and the tower of Babel. After thinking more about what I have written in the description of the Heart of One, I can see now from a certain perspective and point of view, that putting words together in any way regarding the Heart, is tantamount to and borders on a defilement. I will refrain from anymore descriptions in that regard.

I can now see more clearly than ever how language has severely hampered, impaired and enslaved the human mind. It is not a pleasant realization by any means.

Plants: a study using a very sanative electromagnetic tiny pick up sensors attached to a spider sitting on a plant and a separate device attached to the plant. Found that the plant knew a split second before the spider was going to move, moved.

Another test showing how the plant knew a human in another room, was about to stand up and head in its direction the moment the humans thoughts pondered the idea of getting up and going into the room were the plant was.

A pet dog, asleep on the couch, wakes up and dances around the house when its human owner heads for the door to come home from work across town.

The leaf the shaman places on the tongue 9eagle9 spoke of was it the leaf or the idea of the leafs owner source of the tree the shaman was connecting with?

A tangerine the thought opens the memory engrained on the energy stored on the minds ability to communicate energy, pure energy un corrupted or defiled by language the is-ness that connects all things with out labels (words) getting in the way. To know its completeness (no words needed) as energy connects with its self.

Inject the impurity of words or words that have been tampered with or injected like a vaccine with a micro chip energy blocker. Wa Laa you have the fall of men and babble I don’t under stand a word your saying. Bla bla bla.

The essence of nature is as everything in this universe is vibration and energy. Free flowing, the smell of honey is a vibration to the brain pure and uninterrupted, the sight of a beautiful sun set is pure undefiled energy throw energy to the brain with the eye’s no distortion. The taste of clean air is a vibration of pure love vibration to the brain deeply in hailed, when we meditate, stopping the words pushing them aside so the nature that we are.

The true energy of the (is) flows totally connected to itself. Words are the disconnected (VEIL) we have trouble getting passed. Move the words out of the way and suddenly the connection is made, threw intention energy at the sending hits the reciever the intention--- (is) focused to. A tree, a dog, a person, a spider. Nature uncorrupted by words. all the senses are one, connected to the brain,--words are in the brain and not one of the 6 senses. words are in the brain, why? who put them there. sences connect us to others senses -- not words. I see you is a sense connection not a verbal one. as Namaste is a vibrational connection not a verbal one.

"If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."

Replace the (speaking) in the above phrase with “communicating” and the word (language) with “vibration” undefiled energy transfer, connecting with each other as nature dose. A hole different ball game emerges. deep deep deep lets inject words to stop this deepness. so no one can ever be on the same page ever again.:tape2:

A tangerine suddenly has the same taste, look, and feel, to all nature, everything séances, feels, see’s, tastes the flavors. All who make contact with the energy of the tangerine, suddenly connects with “ I SEE YOU” pure communication. MMMMMmmmm tangerine. (is) on the same page with all that (is),-- energy no deceptions, how can a tangerine taste like a orange? It cant but put a lot of words and distort the crap out of it. For what purpose?

You have free will, but first let us babble up your language for you first. Now go ahead and play the game of life, while the rest of nature functions in perfect harmony, We can not even see ourselves in the mirror placed before us. And this person who did this to us is called GOD? Which makes me a codependent slave.

My turn to blaspheme the religion of “ in the beginning was the word, and the word was with GOD.” that idiot has a BIG EGO, don’t you think? :jaw: ooops :tape2:

[PathWalker]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yAfaxdIRxqw/TWi5wiWFuFI/AAAAAAAASTw/PJwk4un2APc/s1600/god%2Binfo%2Bcartoon%2BPiraro%2BBizarroComicBlogspot.jpg

We are here for a reason.
This very dark and dense reality, its a game with a set of rules.
Play it well and you graduate.
Break the rules and you repeat.

[Sebastion]

and more then half your life is composed of trying to figure out what the rules are......lol



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yAfaxdIRxqw/TWi5wiWFuFI/AAAAAAAASTw/PJwk4un2APc/s1600/god%2Binfo%2Bcartoon%2BPiraro%2BBizarroComicBlogspot.jpg

We are here for a reason.
This very dark and dense reality, its a game with a set of rules.
Play it well and you graduate.
Break the rules and you repeat.

[ljwheat]

:popcorn:In the Movie Avatar, (“learn our ways, Jake Suely and maybe we can cure your insanity”) latter --- He earns a place among the people, standing before the chief, chief places hand on Jakes shoulder and as all present laying of hands,--- no words all connect as one, creating if you connect the dots, ---the pattern is the flower of life, sacred geometry 6 senses connecting to other 6 senses in that moment synoptic energy as one all was known. All brains merged as one. Energy flowed freely connected. No words can covey or stand in front of or in place of the (IS) :popcorn: MMMMMmmmm pop corn can you smell it? LOL :cool: John XXX


ps: there are those that can't :painkiller: We must hold the space for them, there are meny Jake Suely's still not able to feel the (IS) energy of life.

[Sebastion]

I saw and recognized that too, lj, made me want to get up and dive into becoming a part of that...lol.....if only...you could





:popcorn:In the Movie Avatar, (“learn our ways, Jake Suely and maybe we can cure your insanity”) latter --- He earns a place among the people, standing before the chief, chief places hand on Jakes shoulder and as all present laying of hands,--- no words all connect as one, creating if you connect the dots, ---the pattern is the flower of life, sacred geometry 6 senses connecting to other 6 senses in that moment synoptic energy as one all was known. All brains merged as one. Energy flowed freely connected. No words can covey or stand in front of or in place of the (IS) :popcorn: MMMMMmmmm pop corn can you smell it? LOL :cool: John XXX


ps: there are those that can't :painkiller: We must hold the space for them, there are meny Jake Suely's still not able to feel the (IS) energy of life.

[9eagle9]

The axial traditions of the east once taught denial of the physical or material world, when it was the very denial that kept us attached to it. Resistance. Began to know much of it (not all of it) was just greater part of the whole. Some conditions were created to 'explain' a mystery and that is where our programming began. That which doesn't belong in the world.

Wanting to go 'be' where everything is expressed without artificial contrivances is a symptom of getting yourself out of the game. You aren't resisting it but neither are you entrenching but going to a place where when a creature with wings flying you can know its a bird. No words needed.

Fetching oneself from a place where a persons language defines who they are rather than the expression showing what they are.

We are supposed to be evolving past what Christ could show and or teach, or the Buddha or whatever else ascended master could show. That proves our evolvement and that is what they expected.

The student becomes the master of the game. In all these thousands of years one expects some advancement from what was previously taught. Otherwise there no evolution. Look at how many religions are stuck in the past--or in time. The Jews are waiting for the first arrival of the messiah, the Christians the second, and when neither showed up more conditions were created to make a 'savior'. Aliens are coming to get us. That's spiritual not spiritual progression or evolvement but transference. Then there's those who knew salvation and then exceeded what was previously made known by the masters. What did we need saving from. The game.

Can you imagine expressing that in public, "I now know more than Christ did (or at least as much). Or at least the ability to express that knowingness to demonstrate the reality of it.

You will have a millions screaming in outrage.

And a few shrugging and saying, Well God I'd fooking hope so after all this time!

Why has Christ not returned. Well ....because of the evolution of those who really understood what was meant by transcending the world.

[ljwheat]

Brilliant and deeply felt. Thanks 9eagle9

:cool:

"PLUS" he said you shall do greater things than I.

[Sebastion]

and that is why the term "defying the deities" is/can be so offensive.....to some.....maybe a lot? lol




The axial traditions of the east once taught denial of the physical or material world, when it was the very denial that kept us attached to it. Resistance. Began to know much of it (not all of it) was just greater part of the whole. Some conditions were created to 'explain' a mystery and that is where our programming began. That which doesn't belong in the world.

Wanting to go 'be' where everything is expressed without artificial contrivances is a symptom of getting yourself out of the game. You aren't resisting it but neither are you entrenching but going to a place where when a creature with wings flying you can know its a bird. No words needed.

Fetching oneself from a place where a persons language defines who they are rather than the expression showing what they are.

We are supposed to be evolving past what Christ could show and or teach, or the Buddha or whatever else ascended master could show. That proves our evolvement and that is what they expected.

The student becomes the master of the game. In all these thousands of years one expects some advancement from what was previously taught. Otherwise there no evolution. Look at how many religions are stuck in the past--or in time. The Jews are waiting for the first arrival of the messiah, the Christians the second, and when neither showed up more conditions were created to make a 'savior'. Aliens are coming to get us. That's spiritual not spiritual progression or evolvement but transference. Then there's those who knew salvation and then exceeded what was previously made known by the masters. What did we need saving from. The game.

Can you imagine expressing that in public, "I now know more than Christ did (or at least as much). Or at least the ability to express that knowingness to demonstrate the reality of it.

You will have a millions screaming in outrage.

And a few shrugging and saying, Well God I'd fooking hope so after all this time!

Why has Christ not returned. Well ....because of the evolution of those who really understood what was meant by transcending the world.

[9eagle9]

Dimensions are viewed at a 360 degree angle , one angle is expressed thus...

Thousands of years ago we inhabited the second dimension. Everything was duality. God and Devil. Black and white. Good and Bad. Body and spirit. Art work was weirdly two dimensional. Not that people were aware that it was spirit, it was something they were told. Remember the stories of how 'spirit' came here to play and got caught? One dimensional. One dimensional means to people as unlimited. No dimension is limited unless one gets stuck there. Obviously the world of spirit still exists and didn't go anywhere. Nothing went anywhere so there's not place to go to...lol. When people talk about shifting or moving into another dimension I'm thinking "you're already there, but not conscious or aware of it". We can take the 3d world which is composed of three dimensions and keep expanding on it forever. We can build more cars, more houses, more people more sky scrapers--more three dimensional forms. Hell people are even saying the earth is expanding! Its not limited . Height breadth and length. Those can go on forever. Start drawing a straight line now and take it to the edge of the universe. Oops no edge, that line will go on forever. Its when we close these dimensions and create what may be considered geometric forms with them we risk limiting. Being in the box takes on a whole new definition now.

Then we entered the third dimension (and theres still those caught in the 2nd). Body, Mind and Spirit.Then people started expressing through artwork--Threes. Triskeles, pyramids. We got some depth to ourselves.

Then came consciousness, or perhaps ego, ego overgrowth when we realized we had consciousness and the implications of that we either trapped ourselves or began to liberate ourselves. A 4th dimension is added. There are still those stuck in the 3rd dimension waiting to move into the ....5th dimension: Unconsciousness. Not conscious but aware. Out of the dimension of consciousness. No limits after that , you are everything , everywhere and everybody once you break that consciousness barrier. But you can move back into your 3 and 4 dimensional self, but we became aware we are multi faceted. Multi dimensional. How many times have seen people who instead of multi faceted become fixed on one idea of themselves.

I look at people who claim psychic ability and witness them either accessing the 1st dimension or the 4th and having no idea what they are intuiting at all. Or able to tell the difference between the two.

Mind these aspects were not uploaded us in us as time moved on , they were dimensions existing that we were not aware of .

So here we are mind, body, spirit, consciousness--dimensions, different levels of density-- Some of us have moved to that place too, 5th dimension broke that ceiling of consciousness. And some beyond finding different dimensions of themselves.

Of course this too is expressed in language and labeling---one two three four five. Language limits the expression. It should be shown and not told. But because one who isn't aware of these dimensions and people resist being shown, . People know are stuck in consciousness not able to access spirit. They confused the two. Most spirituality these days is doing patching of the small self. Spirit is becoming better able to circumvent the barrier of language.

Transcending and ascending got distorted this way too. I may be not be able to see what is going on in my kitchen till I get a step ladder out and rise above it all. I haven't left the kitchen or denied it or evolved from it, I can see it from another perspective. I can actually see what is going on in my kitchen by rising above it all but still remaining in the kitchen.

That was too much for my mind so I'm off to feed the horses.

Do we have conflict. Sure be a 5th dimensional person attempting to express themelves to those stuck in the 3rd and 4th dimensions.

And some are still waiting to find those dimensions of themselves. They know they exist, but its because they were told not because they are experiencing them. The psyche is doing all sort of unimaginable things and people have no idea they are doing them.

[jorr lundstrom]

I appreciate this thread. We are writing out from our own experiences
very much. LOL I like that because then it can be real communication.
Language is a tricky business, words means so different from human
to human. Many people today seem to live their whole life in their
language. I can be sitting for hours staring at a post, writing nothing
just processing a lot of stuff, some pouring out from the Belzebubian
marshes. LOL Sometimes its really hard to find words, even in my own
language, and sometimes I dont give a damn about it. Sometimes I wish
I could find words, but alas, they have receded to the shadows. LOL
Im sitting here trying to find out wot I want to say right now, if anything.
Right now I actually have nothing more to say. Thanks.


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[ljwheat]

On the lighter side this could happen to you -- being politically correct or should I say verbally correct. (complete) ! LOL


eh8Hp_CChdo

:spy: ooopppsss (comply) or die. He He :peep: COMPLETE, COMPLETE,

CCOOMMPPLLEETTEE! :fencing:

[ljwheat]

I appreciate this thread. We are writing out from our own experiences
very much. LOL I like that because then it can be real communication.
Language is a tricky business, words means so different from human
to human. Many people today seem to live their whole life in their
language. I can be sitting for hours staring at a post, writing nothing
just processing a lot of stuff, some pouring out from the Belzebubian
marshes. LOL Sometimes its really hard to find words, even in my own
language, and sometimes I dont give a damn about it. Sometimes I wish
I could find words, but alas, they have receded to the shadows. LOL
Im sitting here trying to find out wot I want to say right now, if anything.
Right now I actually have nothing more to say. Thanks.


All is well


Jorr 2.0

WOW Look at the time stamp your's at 14:00 and Mine at 14:09 posted at the same time what a match. I mean were we on the same vib thread with this or what cool. something made me think about this video, and when i post it i read your post seconds before mine came up...energy link?

[Sebastion]

My god Jorr! You have just said it all! lol





I appreciate this thread. We are writing out from our own experiences
very much. LOL I like that because then it can be real communication.
Language is a tricky business, words means so different from human
to human. Many people today seem to live their whole life in their
language. I can be sitting for hours staring at a post, writing nothing
just processing a lot of stuff, some pouring out from the Belzebubian
marshes. LOL Sometimes its really hard to find words, even in my own
language, and sometimes I dont give a damn about it. Sometimes I wish
I could find words, but alas, they have receded to the shadows. LOL
Im sitting here trying to find out wot I want to say right now, if anything.
Right now I actually have nothing more to say. Thanks.


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Sebastion]

9eagle9-that was too much for my mind as well, but I don't have any horses to feed. What am I gonna do now? lol





Dimensions are viewed at a 360 degree angle , one angle is expressed thus...

Thousands of years ago we inhabited the second dimension. Everything was duality. God and Devil. Black and white. Good and Bad. Body and spirit. Art work was weirdly two dimensional. Not that people were aware that it was spirit, it was something they were told. Remember the stories of how 'spirit' came here to play and got caught? One dimensional. One dimensional means to people as unlimited. No dimension is limited unless one gets stuck there. Obviously the world of spirit still exists and didn't go anywhere. Nothing went anywhere so there's not place to go to...lol. When people talk about shifting or moving into another dimension I'm thinking "you're already there, but not conscious or aware of it". We can take the 3d world which is composed of three dimensions and keep expanding on it forever. We can build more cars, more houses, more people more sky scrapers--more three dimensional forms. Hell people are even saying the earth is expanding! Its not limited . Height breadth and length. Those can go on forever. Start drawing a straight line now and take it to the edge of the universe. Oops no edge, that line will go on forever. Its when we close these dimensions and create what may be considered geometric forms with them we risk limiting. Being in the box takes on a whole new definition now.

Then we entered the third dimension (and theres still those caught in the 2nd). Body, Mind and Spirit.Then people started expressing through artwork--Threes. Triskeles, pyramids. We got some depth to ourselves.

Then came consciousness, or perhaps ego, ego overgrowth when we realized we had consciousness and the implications of that we either trapped ourselves or began to liberate ourselves. A 4th dimension is added. There are still those stuck in the 3rd dimension waiting to move into the ....5th dimension: Unconsciousness. Not conscious but aware. Out of the dimension of consciousness. No limits after that , you are everything , everywhere and everybody once you break that consciousness barrier. But you can move back into your 3 and 4 dimensional self, but we became aware we are multi faceted. Multi dimensional. How many times have seen people who instead of multi faceted become fixed on one idea of themselves.

I look at people who claim psychic ability and witness them either accessing the 1st dimension or the 4th and having no idea what they are intuiting at all. Or able to tell the difference between the two.

Mind these aspects were not uploaded us in us as time moved on , they were dimensions existing that we were not aware of .

So here we are mind, body, spirit, consciousness--dimensions, different levels of density-- Some of us have moved to that place too, 5th dimension broke that ceiling of consciousness. And some beyond finding different dimensions of themselves.

Of course this too is expressed in language and labeling---one two three four five. Language limits the expression. It should be shown and not told. But because one who isn't aware of these dimensions and people resist being shown, . People know are stuck in consciousness not able to access spirit. They confused the two. Most spirituality these days is doing patching of the small self. Spirit is becoming better able to circumvent the barrier of language.

Transcending and ascending got distorted this way too. I may be not be able to see what is going on in my kitchen till I get a step ladder out and rise above it all. I haven't left the kitchen or denied it or evolved from it, I can see it from another perspective. I can actually see what is going on in my kitchen by rising above it all but still remaining in the kitchen.

That was too much for my mind so I'm off to feed the horses.

Do we have conflict. Sure be a 5th dimensional person attempting to express themelves to those stuck in the 3rd and 4th dimensions.

And some are still waiting to find those dimensions of themselves. They know they exist, but its because they were told not because they are experiencing them. The psyche is doing all sort of unimaginable things and people have no idea they are doing them.

[Delight]

My god Jorr! You have just said it all! lol





I appreciate this thread. We are writing out from our own experiences
very much. LOL I like that because then it can be real communication.
Language is a tricky business, words means so different from human
to human. Many people today seem to live their whole life in their
language. I can be sitting for hours staring at a post, writing nothing
just processing a lot of stuff, some pouring out from the Belzebubian
marshes. LOL Sometimes its really hard to find words, even in my own
language, and sometimes I dont give a damn about it. Sometimes I wish
I could find words, but alas, they have receded to the shadows. LOL
Im sitting here trying to find out wot I want to say right now, if anything.
Right now I actually have nothing more to say. Thanks.


All is well


Jorr 2.0

COMPLETE,COMPLETE,COMPLETE......
Great now what?

Funny!! I missed Sebastion asking "What will Sebastion do now?" Must be the question of the day....

[Sebastion]

I am trying to figure out how to communicate on a forum without using language! rofl!






My god Jorr! You have just said it all! lol





I appreciate this thread. We are writing out from our own experiences
very much. LOL I like that because then it can be real communication.
Language is a tricky business, words means so different from human
to human. Many people today seem to live their whole life in their
language. I can be sitting for hours staring at a post, writing nothing
just processing a lot of stuff, some pouring out from the Belzebubian
marshes. LOL Sometimes its really hard to find words, even in my own
language, and sometimes I dont give a damn about it. Sometimes I wish
I could find words, but alas, they have receded to the shadows. LOL
Im sitting here trying to find out wot I want to say right now, if anything.
Right now I actually have nothing more to say. Thanks.


All is well


Jorr 2.0

COMPLETE,COMPLETE,COMPLETE......
Great now what?

Funny!! I missed Sebastion asking "What will Sebastion do now?" Must be the question of the day....

[jorr lundstrom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q&ob=av2e

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q&ob=av2e


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Sebastion]

That was really good Jorr, much appreciated it was............thank you!





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q&ob=av2e

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q&ob=av2e


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Delight]

You have everything you need right here...still you want more...this is how we are fading....time, time

AP36oIfnsyk

[Sebastion]

This really is a funny and somewhat mysterious thing we call life here on planet earth. There was a phrase stated earlier in this thread which said we are where we are because that's where we are supposed to be. For me, that has always been the real "joker" in life. I have noticed in the past that you can see the truth printed right in front of you and if you're not ready, you will never see it.

When I have noticed that happen to me on many an occasion, I have ever wondered why I could not have recognized it earlier. On some occasions, it is such a simple understanding, that when it does dawn on you, you almost feel stupid for not seeing it earlier.

I have been told in the past, that you are not going to know until it's time for you to know-yet another joker. Unfortunately it would seem to be true, at least to some degree. Makes me wonder sometimes if this life isn't somehow scripted!

Long ago, I decided after learning about Christ and the Buddha, I spent long hours working on a Ford assy. line thinking about what they knew and how they came into their knowledge. I eventually realized that no matter what they said, their words couldn't convey the core essence of what they were trying to say. So you were ever left trying to read between the lines.

The only way you could know that essence is to experience it. As Jorr would say-you have to actually drink the tea... As far as I am concerned, you can never know that core essence until you are fully willing to experience that essence first hand. It will be okay as the worst thing you will ever face will be of your own creation!

[another bob]

I once lived near the Presidio, in San Francisco, and there was a charming little city park with a lovely water feature a few blocks down from my house, called Mountain Lake Park.

I would walk my dogs there, and behind the lake, near an abandoned army base, there was a place where one could view all the traffic flowing to and from a tunnel leading up to and away from the Golden Gate Bridge.

One day I found a good place overlooking the road to rest and watch the cars coming and going, and that gave me an opportunity to investigate this mind. Given my somewhat eccentric neural wiring, this respite was to provide the first initiation into the esoteric significance of watching traffic: everything is in motion, and yet the witness remains unmoved.

The second initiation was like a time-release capsule, because it took some time for the dawning realization that each car was my own thought form, and this recognition in turn led to the third initiation, which is not a word, a thought, a sensation, a memory, or even a perception.

All of these initiations happened, but nothing was different as a result. The traffic flows both ways even now, I reckon. It is not good or bad traffic, except to the interpretive mind. Cars go into the tunnel and disappear. Cars emerge from the tunnel and speed by. It is all changing, and no two vehicles are exactly the same.

There is a beginning-less stretch of traffic, and it never seems to end. This whole stretch of traffic is one piece of light, and includes the whole functioning totality of manifestation, both visible and invisible. It is neither seeking nor non-seeking; it flows, because that is what and how it is -- liquid light, flowing beingness.

If I were to say it is Love, this would be true, but not in the way mind understands. I am the traffic, but none of it is me. Realizing this, it is not so difficult to let go of mind, and all of its distracting multi-colored traffic. This would not be the end of the matter, however.

In fact, this very mind which comes and goes, which seeks and strives, which wheels along on a Sunday Drive, is also Love -- the groundless, rootless open essence of all thoughts, appearances, and traffic.

I love this mind, this mind of Love, and so I release it back to itself, stand up, and walk on home.

[Sebastion]

I see you anotherbob.........very well put with much appreciation for your post!




I once lived near the Presidio, in San Francisco, and there was a charming little city park with a lovely water feature a few blocks down from my house, called Mountain Lake Park.

I would walk my dogs there, and behind the lake, near an abandoned army base, there was a place where one could view all the traffic flowing to and from a tunnel leading up to and away from the Golden Gate Bridge.

One day I found a good place overlooking the road to rest and watch the cars coming and going, and that gave me an opportunity to investigate this mind. Given my somewhat eccentric neural wiring, this respite was to provide the first initiation into the esoteric significance of watching traffic: everything is in motion, and yet the witness remains unmoved.

The second initiation was like a time-release capsule, because it took some time for the dawning realization that each car was my own thought form, and this recognition in turn led to the third initiation, which is not a word, a thought, a sensation, a memory, or even a perception.

All of these initiations happened, but nothing was different as a result. The traffic flows both ways even now, I reckon. It is not good or bad traffic, except to the interpretive mind. Cars go into the tunnel and disappear. Cars emerge from the tunnel and speed by. It is all changing, and no two vehicles are exactly the same.

There is a beginning-less stretch of traffic, and it never seems to end. This whole stretch of traffic is one piece of light, and includes the whole functioning totality of manifestation, both visible and invisible. It is neither seeking nor non-seeking; it flows, because that is what and how it is -- liquid light, flowing beingness.

If I were to say it is Love, this would be true, but not in the way mind understands. I am the traffic, but none of it is me. Realizing this, it is not so difficult to let go of mind, and all of its distracting multi-colored traffic. This would not be the end of the matter, however.

In fact, this very mind which comes and goes, which seeks and strives, which wheels along on a Sunday Drive, is also Love -- the groundless, rootless open essence of all thoughts, appearances, and traffic.

I love this mind, this mind of Love, and so I release it back to itself, stand up, and walk on home.

[another bob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q&ob=av2e

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q&ob=av2e


All is well


Jorr 2.0

I've been liking this version lately


WIF4_Sm-rgQ

:yo:

[Bo Atkinson]

This really is a funny and somewhat mysterious thing we call life here on planet earth. There was a phrase stated earlier in this thread which said we are where we are because that's where we are supposed to be. For me, that has always been the real "joker" in life. I have noticed in the past that you can see the truth printed right in front of you and if you're not ready, you will never see it.

When I have noticed that happen to me on many an occasion, I have ever wondered why I could not have recognized it earlier. On some occasions, it is such a simple understanding, that when it does dawn on you, you almost feel stupid for not seeing it earlier.

I have been told in the past, that you are not going to know until it's time for you to know-yet another joker. Unfortunately it would seem to be true, at least to some degree. Makes me wonder sometimes if this life isn't somehow scripted!

Long ago, I decided after learning about Christ and the Buddha, I spent long hours working on a Ford assy. line thinking about what they knew and how they came into their knowledge. I eventually realized that no matter what they said, their words couldn't convey the core essence of what they were trying to say. So you were ever left trying to read between the lines.

The only way you could know that essence is to experience it. As Jorr would say-you have to actually drink the tea... As far as I am concerned, you can never know that core essence until you are fully willing to experience that essence first hand. It will be okay as the worst thing you will ever face will be of your own creation!



My dad always insisted on checking the dictionary for meaning, which usually happened at Sunday dinner. When the stomach thought it reigned. No, instead it's time for the meanings. In fond memory of those moments of protest, let us see Sebastion:


suppose |səˈpōz|
verb
1 [ with clause ] assume that something is the case on the basis of evidence or probability but without proof or certain knowledge: I suppose I got there about half past eleven.
• used to make a reluctant or hesitant admission: I'm quite a good actress, I suppose.
• used to introduce a hypothesis and trace or ask about what follows from it: suppose he had been murdered—what then?
• [ in imperative ] used to introduce a suggestion: suppose we leave this to the police.
• (of a theory or argument) assume or require that something is the case as a precondition: the procedure supposes that a will has already been proved | [ with obj. ] : the theory supposes a predisposition to interpret utterances.
• [ with obj. ] believe to exist or to possess a specified characteristic: he supposed the girl to be about twelve.
2 (be supposed to do something) be required to do something because of the position one is in or an agreement one has made: I'm supposed to be meeting someone at the airport.
• [ with negative ] be forbidden to do something: I shouldn't have been in the kitchen—I'm not supposed to go in there.
PHRASES
I suppose so used to express hesitant or reluctant agreement.
DERIVATIVES
supposable adjective
ORIGIN Middle English: from Old French supposer, from Latin supponere (fromsub- ‘from below’ + ponere ‘to place’), but influenced by Latin suppositus ‘set under’ and Old French poser ‘to place.’


Now then, we can clearly find the scripting! Ha, Latin is the culprit again. The association of "setting under" eh? Yeah, script us under that spell of a control. Yet, do meanings struggle onwards, through modern usages? First definition infers: 'assume' & 'evidence' & 'probability' (science based, great). But the last definition is that old trap again: 'shouldn't' & 'forbidden' & 'not'.

So the application of meaning-one, to that saying, is not so bad. Really, it is rational to 'suppose' we are where we are. So long as we make it our own. So long as we are not deeded as 'tenant'. So long as there is a little fun.

Dad at least encouraged freedom of choice, where we could establish meanings coherently. Ah, back to my morning smoothie now.

[Sebastion]

Fortunately I have never spent an abundance of time pondering those things other then musing over them as little "wonderments" every now and then!






This really is a funny and somewhat mysterious thing we call life here on planet earth. There was a phrase stated earlier in this thread which said we are where we are because that's where we are supposed to be. For me, that has always been the real "joker" in life. I have noticed in the past that you can see the truth printed right in front of you and if you're not ready, you will never see it.

When I have noticed that happen to me on many an occasion, I have ever wondered why I could not have recognized it earlier. On some occasions, it is such a simple understanding, that when it does dawn on you, you almost feel stupid for not seeing it earlier.

I have been told in the past, that you are not going to know until it's time for you to know-yet another joker. Unfortunately it would seem to be true, at least to some degree. Makes me wonder sometimes if this life isn't somehow scripted!

Long ago, I decided after learning about Christ and the Buddha, I spent long hours working on a Ford assy. line thinking about what they knew and how they came into their knowledge. I eventually realized that no matter what they said, their words couldn't convey the core essence of what they were trying to say. So you were ever left trying to read between the lines.

The only way you could know that essence is to experience it. As Jorr would say-you have to actually drink the tea... As far as I am concerned, you can never know that core essence until you are fully willing to experience that essence first hand. It will be okay as the worst thing you will ever face will be of your own creation!



My dad always insisted on checking the dictionary for meaning, which usually happened at Sunday dinner. When the stomach thought it reigned. No, instead it's time for the meanings. In fond memory of those moments of protest, let us see Sebastion:


suppose |səˈpōz|
verb
1 [ with clause ] assume that something is the case on the basis of evidence or probability but without proof or certain knowledge: I suppose I got there about half past eleven.
• used to make a reluctant or hesitant admission: I'm quite a good actress, I suppose.
• used to introduce a hypothesis and trace or ask about what follows from it: suppose he had been murdered—what then?
• [ in imperative ] used to introduce a suggestion: suppose we leave this to the police.
• (of a theory or argument) assume or require that something is the case as a precondition: the procedure supposes that a will has already been proved | [ with obj. ] : the theory supposes a predisposition to interpret utterances.
• [ with obj. ] believe to exist or to possess a specified characteristic: he supposed the girl to be about twelve.
2 (be supposed to do something) be required to do something because of the position one is in or an agreement one has made: I'm supposed to be meeting someone at the airport.
• [ with negative ] be forbidden to do something: I shouldn't have been in the kitchen—I'm not supposed to go in there.
PHRASES
I suppose so used to express hesitant or reluctant agreement.
DERIVATIVES
supposable adjective
ORIGIN Middle English: from Old French supposer, from Latin supponere (fromsub- ‘from below’ + ponere ‘to place’), but influenced by Latin suppositus ‘set under’ and Old French poser ‘to place.’


Now then, we can clearly find the scripting! Ha, Latin is the culprit again. The association of "setting under" eh? Yeah, script us under that spell of a control. Yet, do meanings struggle onwards, through modern usages? First definition infers: 'assume' & 'evidence' & 'probability' (science based, great). But the last definition is that old trap again: 'shouldn't' & 'forbidden' & 'not'.

So the application of meaning-one, to that saying, is not so bad. Really, it is rational to 'suppose' we are where we are. So long as we make it our own. So long as we are not deeded as 'tenant'. So long as there is a little fun.

Dad at least encouraged freedom of choice, where we could establish meanings coherently. Ah, back to my morning smoothie now.

[Sebastion]

I am going to offer now, what most have probably figured out already from what has been said earlier. I have stated that the heart is the first organ to be formed in an embryo-symbolic for the existence of the Great Heart-symbolic that the Heart preceded the Mind.

I have stated that the essence of the Great Heart consists of Masculine/Feminine Love Energy. Please keep in mind that the use of the word "energy" in this statement is probably a corruption and a perversion-language again!

One of the most obvious observations as to the nature of the One is the obvious existence of male and female in most all things-even with the ETs, or so I've heard! lol Obviously each gender performs a biological function for the continued perpetuation of the species but so does the heart. Symbolically speaking it should be rather obvious here. You have two seemingly separate energies, masc./fem seeking each the other, to come together in hopes of creating initially, a merging of Love. That is the ideal.

Lots of symbols in natural things.........

[Sebastion]

I am going to take this a little deeper here and show you the entrance into really deep waters. I have mentioned earlier some aspects of the masculine/feminine energies. I am referring to both the "light" and "dark" sides of each.

The light side of the masculine for example-Christ, Buddha-pick a male saint of choice.

The dark side of the masculine-think Arnold in the first terminator movie!

The light side of the feminine-think Mother Mary-any sainted feminine figure.

The dark side of the feminine-ask any woman-women know these things- as I have never found a good example for the feminine dark side. Perhaps a close example would be a female "terminator" who relishes killing everything while on the way to the primary target

In an effort to clarify the difference in the two dark sides-the male side is cold, indifferent, emotionless. The female dark side is rampant emotional, revenge filled, unlimited rage.

The task now is to see it as energies apart from physical bodies. It gets deeper...

[Sebastion]

I felt it necessary to break out the differences in those energies in an attempt to show the broad contrast and depth of the energies available within the self. Someone told me once along the way that in order to experience the "highness" of a thing, you have to be willing to experience the "lowness" of a thing, spiritually speaking. Can't say if that's true or not but that is the way the experiences were presented to me.

At any rate, you have available to you, tremendous energy potential. You have imagination-which is used to "qualify" your own energy in any way you choose which can be backed up by strong will and some serious intent. Wonder what you could accomplish if you decided that you were going to become an irresistable force towards accomplishing a particular goal?

[9eagle9]

Someone told me once along the way that in order to experience the "highness" of a thing, you have to be willing to experience the "lowness" of a thing, spiritually speaking.


At the risk of revealing my low fetish for screaming metal music,...in the immortal words of SiXX : Nothing like a trail of blood to find your way back home.

Followed by other homey bits of advice like "You can't breathe until you choke"

"I've done things that you won't."

"nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive."

If one ignores the screamingly eye aching gothic death metal imagery incongruously written in blood the message is ' Life is Beautiful'.

MJDDxHIaaVk

Nikki Sixx was a member of Motley Crue and he released an album describing in music his descent into heroin hell. The song rather reflects his 'wake' up call. I note that nothing on the surface about him has changed but we know those sorts of things don't matter anyway.

On more , ahem, normalized fronts of spirituality (he, he) Lame Deer was a renown Lakota Medicine Man. He was often asked HOW did he become a medicine man? In his biography he relates many of the experiences that shaped him to be a medicine man.

Lame Deer unrepentantly and CHEERFULLY, relates that a few failed marriages, drunkeness, delinquency, adultery, drug use, car theft, several show downs with the law, general laziness, lots of forbidden sex, stealing other mens wives, being on the run, a few rodeos, a few interstate car chases, moving moonshine, making moonshine, and taking peyote shaped him to be the medicine man he became. Among just few ....

One of my favorite posthumous mentors.

[Bo Atkinson]

9e9, You remind me of Tina Turner's rendition of a song which included the line in it which goes something like:

" ... (the) eagle stirs her nest, so that her young may never rest..."

Perhaps it is even biblical, though i've not managed to key-word locate anything on this as yet. Go girl.

[9eagle9]

Lots of symbols in natural things.........

So much of what horses have taught me. You don't sit on a horse, you ride it. To ride a horse is to move with the horse, and go with its flow. No matter what its doing you move with it. You don't and you fall off, the horse gets out from under you if don't move with it. If you watch this it appears the rider is motionless but they have actually blended themselves in with the motion of the horse and are always in motion.

And language too, you don't use verbal languages much with horses, your self , your entire being is speaking to the horse and the horse speaks back--its refusal, its cooperation, its fear, its willingness, everything. Correcting your language creates cooperation. A horse can't respond to stop and go given at the same time. A good horse refuses, and one that has a mind on its own (the rider isn't there with it) will take off to get away from the confusion. A riding instructor stands in the middle of the arena and watches this language and corrects it when there's a breakdown in communication.

Z is a performance horse she knows only to run and jump. I use her in lessons with unstable riders because she won't take advantage of their instability and she won't respond to their requests if she feels they are unbalanced. There's something very odd about her, she's very assertive and opinionated (she bites me when I don't perform well...lol) but weirdly patient in an impatient way. She doesn't like to trot and makes all these horrible facial gestures when asked to do so but she'll do it understanding the rider can't ride any faster. If asked to run (which is what she really wants) she won't because she knows her rider can't do it.

And then once they can, she will. What is interesting is the rider will think they can't run, and she KNOWS when they are ready to. I watched her jump over baby jumps with a beginning jumper yesterday at a trot, (something she hates doing) and finally takes it in her head to not trot to the gate run to it. Her rider didn't think he was ready but she knew he was. So she did. Even after took the jump in perfect form, he still didn't think he could do it. Even after he did. His unconscious language spoke to her and she ran with it.

Lesson students she'll trot for, for me she won't because my language isn't uncertain, she goes right back into eventing mode. You change out a rider and you get a different horse. When I started her on giving lessons, she was so careful with her movements (in spite of those horrid facial expressions) that I thought she was going lame, or her back hurt. So I'd ride her and she was fine all fast and fluid, and then put someone else on her and she went right back to that careful way of going. I finally figured it out. I didn't expect it of her because of that overtly assertive and opinionated way she has.

[9eagle9]

my daughter heartily agrees with you...lol.


9e9, You remind me of Tina Turner's rendition of a song which included the line in it which goes something like:

" ... (the) eagle stirs her nest, so that her young may never rest..."

Perhaps it is even biblical, though i've not managed to key-word locate anything on this as yet. Go girl.

[write4change]

Lots of symbols in natural things.........

So much of what horses have taught me. You don't sit on a horse, you ride it. To ride a horse is to move with the horse, and go with its flow. No matter what its doing you move with it. You don't and you fall off, the horse gets out from under you if don't move with it. If you watch this it appears the rider is motionless but they have actually blended themselves in with the motion of the horse and are always in motion.

And language too, you don't use verbal languages much with horses, your self , your entire being is speaking to the horse and the horse speaks back--its refusal, its cooperation, its fear, its willingness, everything. Correcting your language creates cooperation. A horse can't respond to stop and go given at the same time. A good horse refuses, and one that has a mind on its own (the rider isn't there with it) will take off to get away from the confusion. A riding instructor stands in the middle of the arena and watches this language and corrects it when there's a breakdown in communication.

Z is a performance horse she knows only to run and jump. I use her in lessons with unstable riders because she won't take advantage of their instability and she won't respond to their requests if she feels they are unbalanced. There's something very odd about her, she's very assertive and opinionated (she bites me when I don't perform well...lol) but weirdly patient in an impatient way. She doesn't like to trot and makes all these horrible facial gestures when asked to do so but she'll do it understanding the rider can't ride any faster. If asked to run (which is what she really wants) she won't because she knows her rider can't do it.

And then once they can, she will. What is interesting is the rider will think they can't run, and she KNOWS when they are ready to. I watched her jump over baby jumps with a beginning jumper yesterday at a trot, (something she hates doing) and finally takes it in her head to not trot to the gate run to it. Her rider didn't think he was ready but she knew he was. So she did. Even after took the jump in perfect form, he still didn't think he could do it. Even after he did. His unconscious language spoke to her and she ran with it.

Lesson students she'll trot for, for me she won't because my language isn't uncertain, she goes right back into eventing mode. You change out a rider and you get a different horse. When I started her on giving lessons, she was so careful with her movements (in spite of those horrid facial expressions) that I thought she was going lame, or her back hurt. So I'd ride her and she was fine all fast and fluid, and then put someone else on her and she went right back to that careful way of going. I finally figured it out. I didn't expect it of her because of that overtly assertive and opinionated way she has.

Beautiful picture. Is that you eagle? Unusual way for a horse to sit and on slopping ground? Reason?

All smart people are different around different types of people--they judge it in their best interest to be so. Why would a smart horse be less street wise that a person? The big trick is to recognize a smart horse. Stupid horses hurt themselves and others. When we first brought My T Maxx home from being stabled all his life and put him in a six acre pasture to roam and play---he put his foot up on top of a metal four foot fence post and got it caught. Luckly we were in the barn and saw him do it. We could not believe it! We start running across the pasture fearing he is going to break his leg being a thoughbred etc. We are calling to him as we are running stand stand stand. And he does quietyly waiting until we get there. I think I am going to have a heart attack. At 4 years he is many ways an inexperienced baby and yet he has been racing since he was two with no real ideas about being a real horse instead of a racing machine. But he is smart which I understood from the get go.

I had watched him racing. He was either first or dead last. He was so frustrating to his owners. But he would go in the parade ring size up his competitiors and decide how much effort was worth it. It seemed if he knew he could win, he would win big and all out. But if it looked like a nose or a crap shoot to his mind, he came in dead last. That is how we got a horse sired by a horse of the year--can't remember names right now but six generations back he had man of war and war admiral----for five thousand dollars at a claiming race. Then he fell in love with Maxx and then he fell in love with being a show horse. After Maxx died he was different with each of his different riders. He never really liked men and liked young girls much more than old women. LOL

We had an older minature horse stallion that we called Houdini because he could get in and out of every where. We finally gilded him because he would get the mares of my nieghbors to squat for him. LOL We put him in with My T Maxx which every one said was a bad idea. I wish I had the sense to being a camera that first time. It would have won me ten thousand dollars to see that big horse get down and play with the little one. They were so funny, spontaneously jumping over one another. From then on they went out together because Houdini knew everything about the pasture and dangers and My T Maxx--Teddy-- Maxx's Teddy bear---did whatever Houdini wanted. Ironically, Houdini stayed with Teddy and did not leave him alone to get into things. Teddy also had a barn cat that loved him and sat on him at night. Had five horses and dozen barn cats and they were the only ones with a relationship.

I learned a lot from my little herd. The biggest horse was not the leader. The leader was the small arabian pinto Exotic Lilly. She rounded everyone up and basically made them poop around the old abandoned chicken coop. She was picky about everything and fanatically clean. Hated walking in mud etc. She was prissy and high strung and every boday catered to her or else. She had a mean bite if you pissed her off. She broke my daughter's arm by rearing and Maxx would have nothing to do with her after that. Two prissy beautiful teenagers used to being the center of attention. She remained my horse because I knew her loved her and was willing to put up with her shanigans. I bought her for Picasso the warmblood paint and Maxx's first horse. She would have nothing to do with him. Teddy adored her and she was gracious to his attentions. Picasso turned out to be gay. He loved eventing best. He would work out in the round pen by himself if you played his dressage music. LOL

They were like people and tribes in many ways. The one thing they had in common was being exceptionally smart horses. I learned to trust my gut which made many a trainer mad and bought the horse whose mind I could feel. I bought the horse with the mind first, knowing that like Seabiscuit; it was the mind that made the horse. Then I set about to learn each of my horse's minds and I let them know mine. I let them see that above all I was committed to calm and I was centered consciousness and after that I was curioous and open to expression and exploration. And so we all had partnered relationships.

I also learned not to talk about how I functioned with other trainers etc. They were in the "horse" business. I was not; I was a horse person. But it would really piss them off. I was no competition for them in the business but both Picasso and My T Maxx were California Pacific Coast Horse Association year end champions for amateur jumping. I did that 4 years in a row 97, 98, 99, 2000. It will be a long time before someone breaks that record. In California, you have at least 15,000 horses competing for that title. My name is there because I owned the horse but in jumping the honors goes to the horse not the rider. So the record book carries the horses name and the owner not the rider. Too old to compete that way riding, I selected the riders for my horses and that pissed even more people off. Not following my direction about how my horse lived and worked--got you thirty day notice. Learned a lot about people that way too.

Even here I often have the reaction the more I know about people the more I love my horse. LOL

[ljwheat]

This is intersting:
ULGoL4ZU6A8

[Sebastion]

I wish to thank each and every one who has posted to this thread from the bottom of my heart truly, for each and every one of them has allowed me insight to a deeper, more subtle and powerful understanding. I am going to attempt to impart that as best I can....if I can use the right words, you will see it subtly in most every post.

9eagle9 and write4 change both hint very strongly to the subtle "power" of it. They have "naturally" aligned their energies with horse energy to produce a natural energetic communion of understanding with horse energy. The secret here is that there is no attachment whatsoever to it, but it is a simple merging yet powerful because it's NATURAL, a natural flow of energies in synchronistic alignment. Powerful stuff.

Even Anotherbob would imply the same thing subtly in his words. He is not attached to anything but is naturally aligned with the energy of just being, just simply loving, no requirements, no attachments, free...

I think I see a horsewhisperer or two among us...and an eagle whisperer as well...does that not speak to a natural alignment of natural energies in a mutual, synchronistic flow. It doesn't get more exquisite and elegant then that.....

[another bob]

My favorite miracle – just appearing here, awake and aware, with nothing before or after! Whatever happens otherwise is not unlike the made-up stuff mind fashions while we dream.

If so, why interfere? Dreamers are dear when they’re dreaming. They have many humorous facial expressions which hardly anyone notices, because everyone else is dreaming too!

Still, how is it that we seem to meet each other in these dreams, yet not even recognize our own face?

I have no idea who or what I am -- even when I thought I knew, I realize now, I didn't know. Nor has it ever really been about what "I" know.

When what moves me, what breathes me, does so without my interference, without my "knowing" being added, then the free Heart functions unimpeded, unrestricted by prior programs, clever strategies, artificial flavors, imitation emotional colorings, or suave identity preservatives.

We can call it “the Heart”, yet this free Heart cannot be defined in opposition to bondage. It is as free in bondage as it is in liberation.

It is open-ended, spontaneous, and dangerous -- dangerous to beliefs, concepts, projections, willfulness, pride, arrogance -- dangerous to all that still clings to the known for that slippery sense of certainty.

Nevertheless, at the Heart, whatever is needed is always granted, graciously, and then the only question is, the only test is: love or fear.

Love is not knowing, and so is indiscriminate -- it loves saints and sinners equally. Even in the grip of fear, it doesn't fall in or out.

A deep and simple recognition, Love meets itself in all -- in and through each pair of eyes, each touch, each word of humble kindness.

Why is fear of Love the only fear greater than fear of death? Perhaps because we are most vulnerable when we drop off our masks and stand naked in Love.

Without being anchored in Love, truth itself becomes a mental abstraction. Even so, Love can make friends with the mind. Why fuel more struggle? In such a friendship, mind itself is finally recognized as Love.

All positions are positions in mind – Love has no position, no opposite. Why make more mind about Love? Love ushers the mind into silence.

Call Love a fire – even what says so, will also be consumed by it. Fire goes where there's fuel, and truth is the tip of the flame – never fixed or static, ultimately ungraspable and thus unknowable.

The caterpillar cannot understand the butterfly, nor kindling the flame.

We claim we want the truth, but resist submitting to Love’s burning away of all that’s not true. We tend to prefer the coolness of dreaming, the security of knowing, even though none of it is actually true.

After all, it’s easy enough to close our eyes, but waking up is hard to do!

[Delight]

Call Love a fire – even what says so, will also be consumed by it. Fire goes where there's fuel, and truth is the tip of the flame – never fixed or static, ultimately ungraspable and thus unknowable.

The caterpillar cannot understand the butterfly, nor kindling the flame.

We claim we want the truth, but resist submitting to Love’s burning away of all that’s not true. We tend to prefer the coolness of dreaming, the security of knowing, even though none of it is actually true.

After all, it’s easy enough to close our eyes, but waking up is hard to do!

I like that post Bob. I am dreaming all these states....

All is either moving or still.
Animals and plants and humans and rocks and all of the beautiful we know and love.


A cat woman calls into visceral memory cats present and past and feels them furry and purring.
Last night my loved dead husband and I touched with etheric hands....
All is ether alive or not in every dream it IS.
The world spins a new day

Fire consumes earth, water consumes fire, earth covers water, air blows the earth away.
And so it goes in the elemental world.
That is in the waking dream.

Who cares except for that one who loves the caring?
Then she cares to move on.
And so it goes into the wild yonder


I love myself best in all my dreams because I am with me all the time.
Yet, I will never really see my face.
So I look for her in eyes.

Everything there is, IS
just star glasses on a lover. Maggie

[another bob]

Call Love a fire – even what says so, will also be consumed by it. Fire goes where there's fuel, and truth is the tip of the flame – never fixed or static, ultimately ungraspable and thus unknowable.

The caterpillar cannot understand the butterfly, nor kindling the flame.

We claim we want the truth, but resist submitting to Love’s burning away of all that’s not true. We tend to prefer the coolness of dreaming, the security of knowing, even though none of it is actually true.

After all, it’s easy enough to close our eyes, but waking up is hard to do!

I like that post Bob. I am dreaming all these states....

All is either moving or still.
Animals and plants and humans and rocks and all of the beautiful we know and love.


A cat woman calls into visceral memory cats present and past and feels them furry and purring.
Last night my loved dead husband and I touched with etheric hands....
All is ether alive or not in every dream it IS.
The world spins a new day

Fire consumes earth, water consumes fire, earth covers water, air blows the earth away.
And so it goes in the elemental world.
That is in the waking dream.

Who cares except for that one who loves the caring?
Then she cares to move on.
And so it goes into the wild yonder


I love myself best in all my dreams because I am with me all the time.
Yet, I will never really see my face.
So I look for her in eyes.

Everything there is, IS
just star glasses on a lover. Maggie


_JoCvv8b0AY

[Sebastion]

Beautiful posts.......indeed. I cannot add to any of it....as any attempt to do so would detract from the eloquence presented....Thank you....







Call Love a fire – even what says so, will also be consumed by it. Fire goes where there's fuel, and truth is the tip of the flame – never fixed or static, ultimately ungraspable and thus unknowable.

The caterpillar cannot understand the butterfly, nor kindling the flame.

We claim we want the truth, but resist submitting to Love’s burning away of all that’s not true. We tend to prefer the coolness of dreaming, the security of knowing, even though none of it is actually true.

After all, it’s easy enough to close our eyes, but waking up is hard to do!

I like that post Bob. I am dreaming all these states....

All is either moving or still.
Animals and plants and humans and rocks and all of the beautiful we know and love.


A cat woman calls into visceral memory cats present and past and feels them furry and purring.
Last night my loved dead husband and I touched with etheric hands....
All is ether alive or not in every dream it IS.
The world spins a new day

Fire consumes earth, water consumes fire, earth covers water, air blows the earth away.
And so it goes in the elemental world.
That is in the waking dream.

Who cares except for that one who loves the caring?
Then she cares to move on.
And so it goes into the wild yonder


I love myself best in all my dreams because I am with me all the time.
Yet, I will never really see my face.
So I look for her in eyes.

Everything there is, IS
just star glasses on a lover. Maggie


_JoCvv8b0AY

[Sebastion]

No wonder now why I get the feeling occasionally that life is somehow scripted...george mentions that the future has already happened......lol!




This is intersting:
ULGoL4ZU6A8

[another bob]

No wonder now why I get the feeling occasionally that life is somehow scripted...george mentions that the future has already happened......lol!

Yes, except it's not the future, it's now (but one needs to get beyond this 3-D angle of vision to appreciate that fact).



http://i41.tinypic.com/2dc8gb9.jpg

[Sebastion]

A good and succinct point Anotherbob....but I allow myself to be lazy every now and then just because...lol!




No wonder now why I get the feeling occasionally that life is somehow scripted...george mentions that the future has already happened......lol!

Yes, except it's not the future, it's now (but one needs to get beyond this 3-D angle of vision to appreciate that fact).



http://i41.tinypic.com/2dc8gb9.jpg

[Sebastion]

Wishing to continue on with a point I was trying to make in a previous post concerning "whispering" or tapping in/merging with other natural energies is, I believe a significant one. It is natural for humans on this planet to do and there is a special beauty in doing so. It would seem that everything in "civilization" is designed to take you as far away from that as possible.

The greater point here is that you, of yourself are as "natural" as anything could be and as long as you are kept from seeing that and understanding that, the more "lost" you will remain. Technology most certainly has its place however it is quite "unnatural" to sacrifice knowledge about yourself in the pursuit of technological advancement.

According to some of the stories I have read on this forum, it has been the pursuit and advancement of technology which has destroyed and annihilated entire civilizations. It would obviously appear then, that the ultimate cost of technology is the total sacrifice of all that we are as "natural" beings. What an unnatural thing to do..........

[ljwheat]

Wishing to continue on with a point I was trying to make in a previous post concerning "whispering" or tapping in/merging with other natural energies is, I believe a significant one. It is natural for humans on this planet to do and there is a special beauty in doing so. It would seem that everything in "civilization" is designed to take you as far away from that as possible.

The greater point here is that you, of yourself are as "natural" as anything could be and as long as you are kept from seeing that and understanding that, the more "lost" you will remain. Technology most certainly has its place however it is quite "unnatural" to sacrifice knowledge about yourself in the pursuit of technological advancement.

According to some of the stories I have read on this forum, it has been the pursuit and advancement of technology which has destroyed and annihilated entire civilizations. It would obviously appear then, that the ultimate cost of technology is the total sacrifice of all that we are as "natural" beings. What an unnatural thing to do..........

This is in the limits of a blog only a attempt to look at a structure with the mind and a few key’s on the computer screen.

To really dive into this, you must drop your conformity to the comfort zone your living in at present, like going camping in a tent on a hill side at a state park, only a pocket knife and a canteen, sleeping bag, walk in not drive, be isolated into the environment you wish to feel into. Do it for a week, you wont die, but as the hours pass the things that have trapped you in this slave, manufactured society will be reviled to you as how institutionalize you actually are, and the things you can break away from.

Being home less for one week is cheep and inconsiderate of those that found themselves in this with out a choice. But to sit here in the comfort zone with a laptop and a bag of chips, intellectualizing a topic with out first hand knowledge is pretty cheep on our part.

A couch potato comes to mind, is this new era of laptop potato’s taking the place of the TV, just a trade off, the amount of time spent tapping these key’s in a trance of intellectual thought ping pong.

You want to look at the deeper aspect of the (IS) then analyze the is your doing as a blog potato? What is it that we are doing here at Avalon forum? How is it consuming our time? Who’s it benefiting? And what is it doing to our awareness or yet just another bubble of reality. I would say if totally grounded in this you’ll understand how so many people have left forums all together to start living it instead of just speaking into a barrel.

I know this sound little off topic but, at this depth one must look at this couch, blog, potato, what’s really going on and why am I doing it at this time on this planet and where I am in it? CME a big ONE the kill shot, that’s coming. No power, no computers no running water, back to hunting and gathering? All this creator comforts gone, all the intellectual marvel of our much speaking, will not keep us alive. You cant drink it or eat it, and after a while it will only give you a better understanding of how to beg with it, when all the stuff technological advancement is wiped out.

"This can't happen to me crap" of thinking will not help but to give us more time to speak it, instead of learning how to live with out a pillow. that’s how the Roman empire fell, (soft.) this time the world the survivor’s the meek , Pigmies in a rain forest that live with mother nature, laptops and much speaking will kill us.:drum:

[ljwheat]

Just to clarify the direction IMO this is going.

5D and above critical pondering, (assuming we know what 5D is) we must step away from the 3D duality pondering in to 5D, with 3D definitions.

Dropping the human shell, left with the life force we are,( Ebonics’ would be we (IS).) Has no beginning’s has no ending’s Is reincarnating at will into anything we like with out end, human shell being one of the lowest in a lower detention than were we are extended from and are still there as ie. Our higher self.

And this is a dement ional amusement park ride, with out the knowledge of the above core source, and actually not of this ride.

Then its safe to say, there is nothing to save, (life, constitution, human race, or concepts, but only the chance to explore the boringness of this fish bubble.

What else would you do with existence with out end being anything in any existence with out end. Survival is not in the 5D elms or higher, only here in this slowed down molasses of an existence. So we are more like “Q” in star trek than we know, popping in and out of existence in any form or forum we choose to play in.

If we do anything at all would be to help those trapped in the primordial goo of this planet is to help self empowerment out of 3D thinking. We are the avatar driver’s not the avatar itself or could we be, oil and water dosent mix nor can mind-body mix with spirit the driver. Lets beging to turn around in the avatar as you would in a swival chair in this human ship and catch a glimpse of that life force we are. And quit modifying the avatar to fit the driver. Just like in Avatar when you shed this human shell you wake or are aware again were you never left. and your there now, but like Jake Suely you've become consumed with the Avatar.:ballchain: when you let go of 3D thinking and the avatar your not :rapture:

[Sebastion]

Lj I understand very well all that you have said and have given it much consideration in the past. Having experienced a NDE a number of years ago, I made the choice to return to the body and this life to complete some unfinished business. It was after going through that I must agree with what the outlaw Josey Wales said to 10 bears: "Dying is easy, it's living that's hard....". Being near death again a year and a half ago, again I chose to hang around a while longer-call me crazy-lol!

Dying is easy...as it comes as if on a gossamer breeze. I have no fear of it for it is as easy as changing clothes, just not as much effort involved! If there is a kill shot coming, there is nothing I, nor anyone else can do about it. What comes will come. I have done what I can do at this moment in time, for me and mine. One of those being a choice and a refusal to live in fear. I choose instead to see and experience the simple and profound beauty of nature and the planet, things that I never saw and therefore never fully appreciated, while I am still here.

I would choose also, for the time being, to pass on to others, some of the things I have learned. Whether or not it's appreciated is anyone's guess. I reckon when people stop posting to this thread, that will tell me all I need to know and I pick up on some things very quickly, lol!

[ljwheat]

Lj I understand very well all that you have said and have given it much consideration in the past. Having experienced a NDE a number of years ago, I made the choice to return to the body and this life to complete some unfinished business. It was after going through that I must agree with what the outlaw Josey Wales said to 10 bears: "Dying is easy, it's living that's hard....". Being near death again a year and a half ago, again I chose to hang around a while longer-call me crazy-lol!

Dying is easy...as it comes as if on a gossamer breeze. I have no fear of it for it is as easy as changing clothes, just not as much effort involved! If there is a kill shot coming, there is nothing I, nor anyone else can do about it. What comes will come. I have done what I can do at this moment in time, for me and mine. One of those being a choice and a refusal to live in fear. I choose instead to see and experience the simple and profound beauty of nature and the planet, things that I never saw and therefore never fully appreciated, while I am still here.

I would choose also, for the time being, to pass on to others, some of the things I have learned. Whether or not it's appreciated is anyone's guess. I reckon when people stop posting to this thread, that will tell me all I need to know and I pick up on some things very quickly, lol!

Yes very good post as I love a chance to stretch as this old avatar needs to stay in tutch with the driver more and more now that we are nearing the end of this party we’ve been invited to. And am glad you chose to stick around for the final Curtin so to speak and help with the party favors and those who've started to look in this part of the shed.

Thanks for letting me kick this hockey puck around with you as I know for years I read and listen before I finally was confident enough to open up. As I’m sure other’s are doing this moment and being there for us. Thanks Sebastion nice ride.! John XXX :cool:

[9eagle9]

It's always questionable if someone is in natural alignment or unhealthily attaching. And that's why we question to see. Attachments are very predictable as there's a program running there, a script, a cord. Natural alignments you never know what's going to happen. You many know something is going to happen but just how it happens is that magickal mystery of life.

[Sebastion]

and I am grateful to you John for all that you have contributed thus far......thank you!





Lj I understand very well all that you have said and have given it much consideration in the past. Having experienced a NDE a number of years ago, I made the choice to return to the body and this life to complete some unfinished business. It was after going through that I must agree with what the outlaw Josey Wales said to 10 bears: "Dying is easy, it's living that's hard....". Being near death again a year and a half ago, again I chose to hang around a while longer-call me crazy-lol!

Dying is easy...as it comes as if on a gossamer breeze. I have no fear of it for it is as easy as changing clothes, just not as much effort involved! If there is a kill shot coming, there is nothing I, nor anyone else can do about it. What comes will come. I have done what I can do at this moment in time, for me and mine. One of those being a choice and a refusal to live in fear. I choose instead to see and experience the simple and profound beauty of nature and the planet, things that I never saw and therefore never fully appreciated, while I am still here.

I would choose also, for the time being, to pass on to others, some of the things I have learned. Whether or not it's appreciated is anyone's guess. I reckon when people stop posting to this thread, that will tell me all I need to know and I pick up on some things very quickly, lol!

Yes very good post as I love a chance to stretch as this old avatar needs to stay in tutch with the driver more and more now that we are nearing the end of this party we’ve been invited to. And am glad you chose to stick around for the final Curtin so to speak and help with the party favors and those who've started to look in this part of the shed.

Thanks for letting me kick this hockey puck around with you as I know for years I read and listen before I finally was confident enough to open up. As I’m sure other’s are doing this moment and being there for us. Thanks Sebastion nice ride.! John XXX :cool:

[Sebastion]

Well said 9eagle9 for I too have a serious love for that particular "magic". Nothing, spiritually speaking ever once happened anywhere near in the way I thought it would. That forever boggled my mind and slapped a smile upon my face because it was always something I could never have imagined-it was "better". It never made any difference what direction I was looking in and ever came when I least expected it.

Methinks there is a deeper magic, something really awesome in the realm referred to as whispering with animals-all of life. You have entered in to an aspect of it yourself-between horses and eagles and medicine plants. And you know exactly what I speak of...nothing has more beauty on this planet, but I need not tell you what you already know....lol





It's always questionable if someone is in natural alignment or unhealthily attaching. And that's why we question to see. Attachments are very predictable as there's a program running there, a script, a cord. Natural alignments you never know what's going to happen. You many know something is going to happen but just how it happens is that magickal mystery of life.

[NancyV]

I think I understood this poem when I wrote it, but now??? hmmmm.. LOL..
I don't really have a need to understand much of anything anymore which is good since it coincides with not much of anything making much sense.

love is like a letter that did not get written
cause someone got busy
love is like an elephant who is smitten
by a yorky...with frizzy
hair... love is like you who has bitten
the apple... getting dizzy
wonderin bout the wicked witch, spitten
out the poison.. in a tizzy

love is like me who just wants to be free
the plight of eons and ages
which blithers and slithers paradoxically
in and out of self-made cages
love is all and love is none.. a magically
roasted pheasant... which mages
eat...scrunching bones...fat fantastically
dripping down on unwritten, unread pages

pages of books... books that reveal
the meanings of love... so who will read
these books? no one!... and if you feel
sad and lonely, think of the deadly deed
of the creator...splitting itself from the real
allness that it was... finally freed
to be another IZ... and if that IZ wanted to steal
the real IZ... to be part of He... She... fleed

and did the He IZ ever catch the She IZ???
That is the second part of the History.... Herstory!

(at least it rhymes!)

Nancy :)

[Sebastion]

Hi Nancy:

I gotta say that is an awesome poem and the last line....is some food for deep thought! I love it when that happens...lol

I know that you have some quite valuable things you may wish to add...feel free..!





I think I understood this poem when I wrote it, but now??? hmmmm.. LOL..
I don't really have a need to understand much of anything anymore which is good since it coincides with not much of anything making much sense.

love is like a letter that did not get written
cause someone got busy
love is like an elephant who is smitten
by a yorky...with frizzy
hair... love is like you who has bitten
the apple... getting dizzy
wonderin bout the wicked witch, spitten
out the poison.. in a tizzy

love is like me who just wants to be free
the plight of eons and ages
which blithers and slithers paradoxically
in and out of self-made cages
love is all and love is none.. a magically
roasted pheasant... which mages
eat...scrunching bones...fat fantastically
dripping down on unwritten, unread pages

pages of books... books that reveal
the meanings of love... so who will read
these books? no one!... and if you feel
sad and lonely, think of the deadly deed
of the creator...splitting itself from the real
allness that it was... finally freed
to be another IZ... and if that IZ wanted to steal
the real IZ... to be part of He... She... fleed

and did the He IZ ever catch the She IZ???
That is the second part of the History.... Herstory!

(at least it rhymes!)

Nancy :)

[another bob]

I don't really have a need to understand much of anything anymore which is good since it coincides with not much of anything making much sense.



http://i41.tinypic.com/r037u1.jpg

[Sebastion]

Which reminds me of an incident at Ford one day on the assy. line......an hourly employee called the superintendent over to his job and showed him how it didn't make any sense to put a particular part on ahead of his part because....... The superintendent looked at it, stood up and said "son, we ain't here to make sense, we are here to make cars and walked away. And so the world turns...lol






I don't really have a need to understand much of anything anymore which is good since it coincides with not much of anything making much sense.



http://i41.tinypic.com/r037u1.jpg

[Bo Atkinson]

I got a little head start by venturing to the big city, first thing, after leaving home. Sort of a blind plunge there, but, it much more abruptly, built up the "necessity level". The perceptions sharpen and discernment lessons came 24/7. I was technically supposed to go to Viet nam, but instead, eventually, went to the hills. I knew too much, long life story there, (wannabe whistleblower dad, saw too much in WWII. It could never make sense to me;)
http://harmoniouspalette.com/wavydomeworkshop.jpg
A gentrifying, rural, culture, then taught me how to live at the pristine edge of suburbia. Which means very low cost and philosophically very-comfortable. So as to gain independence and stay out of the box. Freedom was very key. So as to define life personally. Make life flow but insist it is fun. Make animate the inanimate. Size up civilization's design parameters. Invoke fun charactertures which then remains with you for the long, long run.

[NancyV]

What an awesome art studio....I mean workshop...or office....creative space.... whatever!! LOL

[9eagle9]

My gawd, I thought I had a man cave. Mine trembles in the wake of yours.




I got a little head start by venturing to the big city, first thing, after leaving home. Sort of a blind plunge there, but, it much more abruptly, built up the "necessity level". The perceptions sharpen and discernment lessons came 24/7. I was technically supposed to go to Viet nam, but instead, eventually, went to the hills. I knew too much, long life story there, (wannabe whistleblower dad, saw too much in WWII. It could never make sense to me;)
http://harmoniouspalette.com/wavydomeworkshop.jpg
A gentrifying, rural, culture, then taught me how to live at the pristine edge of suburbia. Which means very low cost and philosophically very-comfortable. So as to gain independence and stay out of the box. Freedom was very key. So as to define life personally. Make life flow but insist it is fun. Make animate the inanimate. Size up civilization's design parameters. Invoke fun charactertures which then remains with you for the long, long run.

[Sebastion]

Looks like the office of a very creative individual, wouldn't be afraid to imagine some really cool stuff was engineered there!




I got a little head start by venturing to the big city, first thing, after leaving home. Sort of a blind plunge there, but, it much more abruptly, built up the "necessity level". The perceptions sharpen and discernment lessons came 24/7. I was technically supposed to go to Viet nam, but instead, eventually, went to the hills. I knew too much, long life story there, (wannabe whistleblower dad, saw too much in WWII. It could never make sense to me;)
http://harmoniouspalette.com/wavydomeworkshop.jpg
A gentrifying, rural, culture, then taught me how to live at the pristine edge of suburbia. Which means very low cost and philosophically very-comfortable. So as to gain independence and stay out of the box. Freedom was very key. So as to define life personally. Make life flow but insist it is fun. Make animate the inanimate. Size up civilization's design parameters. Invoke fun charactertures which then remains with you for the long, long run.

[Sebastion]

9eagle9-do you have any information on the significance of totem animal energies? I have had some major lucid dreams occur to me many years ago concerning several different animals, but bear energy has been with me all my life.

For instance, the dark side of the feminine was represented to me in an all too lucid dream as a very large, black, very enraged black bear sow with flaming red eyes. I was to have 2 run ins with her as it turned out. The first incident, I was able to escape her wrath yet she telepathically told me that we would meet again, as I ran from her laughing hysterically in my terror. The second time, I had to face that wrath physically and it nearly ended my life as a result. I am not at liberty to reveal the details.

[9eagle9]

Do you have the rest of your life? (he he)

The more I know about animal totems, daily I'm shown more.

To start is an understanding of totems and energy. They are not two separate events. We are not separate from totems. We may not share aspects with certain totems but it is about sharing aspects.

Plant spirit helpers are totems too and roughly this occurs in the same way.

Totems are aspects of ourselves that represent what we have gotten away from. Animals not having the same sort of consciousness and a different sort of ego than humans are actually more trustworthy. Particularly in the wild , where they have not been conditioned. An animals ego is more physical oriented, and survival mode than a since of self gratification or greed.

So they carry the energy of aspects of ourselves that have lost, set aside, were tampered away from, ignored or however we've gotten away from them.

People tend to be enamored by non physical guides of any sort. Forgetting the spirit is expressed through the physical. We are in a physical world , our spirit is expressed here if we allow it or remove the conditons or program that disallow its full free expression. So are other spirits, expressed through a physical body. Spirit speaks through other people.

Animal totems express different dimensions of themselves and we learn to respect all dimensions. The spiritual and the physical. In some respects animals who have the physical ego going on strong, an animal may not come to you in physical form but will come in spiritual form. Or they will come to you in a fashion that honors you but keeps them safe. Most of animal calling is done unconsciously at first. The first animal I called as an adult was a skunk..lol. it came right to my hand. When the skunk and I both realized how we were interacting we both went into fear mode. I fled.

Skunk brings out that aspect that teaches one to stand their ground. The skunk has no reason to back down, Skunk has a simple but powerful means of coaxing you to back down that has no language, not a weapon but is a naturally occuring aspect of the animal.

We learn to respect. To learn to call an animal in physical form , is not a place for people who have something to prove or that the animal will validate in some fashion. That's another co-dependency, an unhealthy attachment. This is why people tend to 'pick' powerful animal totems, the glamorous fancy ones, they think the totem will validate them. Rather like kissing and telling or 'taking trophy animals'. They are in no way in alignment with that animal .No different than people who hunt for trophy animals. If one is patient the animal gives you their own trophy. They willingly give a token of themselves to remind you of shared aspects.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s174/celticknot_2007/Shopphotos063.jpg

some totems come into to share something and you don't really align with them, its something one needs to know that my ultimately end up in alignment with another totem. Crow may lead to wolf. They will give a token too of that medicine. There's not need to trophy hunt spiritually one only needs to accept what one may percieve as undesirable aspects of one's self. Who assigned the value of undesirable? Not the totem, it didn't. We did. Then we wonder why the totem doesn't express or make itself evident. If you have a wolf totem you will have a wolfish aspect to yourself. You can't force it because....you don't have it or you are unmindfully suspressing it. An animal will express itself according to it's nature. You let cow in your home and it will still need to be milked and jet liquid manure all over the place. It doesn't care about your white carpet and sterile environment.Why should it. For that matter why did you invite it in if you were going to make its aspects unwelcome.

I don't care if its meergoogoo living on Mars a totem will find a way to gift you.

Acceptance is the better portion of alignment. You may ask an totem to share with you an aspect you may feel you don't have, but it that is a naturally occurring aspect of yourSELF it will impose enough of its own energy to bring that forward in you.

Are we willing to accept that a totems' expression can be in death? I have had totems commit suicide on me. An owl striking me in the heart center when I accepted my heart knowing and my intelligence. When I accepted that fully the owl that came to roost outside my kitchen window stopped screaming at me all night when I resisted my heart's wisdom.

People confuse admiration of a totem with alignment. I admire tigers, I am not in alignment with their natural ebb and flow. I respect that and the tiger respects me back. If you want or desire an aspect of animal without finding it in yourself, its just an attachment, and unhealthy one sided love affair. Attempting to use or thieve it's energy.

The totem really doesn't choose you, its not a popularity contest, its about sharing and alignment and no contest is present in those realms. There's similar aspects at work which one shares. Energy is attractive. You accept certain aspects of yourself and the totem(s) will make themselves known to you.

When I accepted (not in this life time) that side of myself that says 'Ha ha if you can catch me you ride me,' I fell into alignment with the horse. That's what a horse does. When I accepted my right to freedom, my air, my power, that I am strong and vulnerable at the same time, i go further into alignment with horse. I am fire horse woman, (Chinese Astrology) they are hugely unpopular and undesirable, they were put to death in Eastern culture because they made unsuitable wives.

I accept that. Ha ha, if you can catch me you can kill me.

'IF'

Fire horse and water horse.


Other obvious totem animals are chickens. I accepted that one can live in a community and make it a working community and still have pecking and scratching, and outrage and it still a working community. Chickens are by no means cowards but one seldom sees one admitting to having a 'weak' totem. Chickens aren't weak.

so someone who thinks they are in alignment with a predator animal and decides my chicken aspect makes me weak and sets abuses that totem in way meant to attack my aspect will have a wake up call. There are several aspects, someone attacks the chicken and the horse will kick.

No contest. The totem instead attempts to bring out an aspect that you share with that animal.

The aspects of my totems are self evidential and they are translated into human values that are less than flattering....lol. You get a mind conditioned human zombie addressing a totemic aspect there's an artificial language being spoken and a natural one. Ultimately nature wins. Why do I poke my nose where it doesn't belong? Why does the horse do it?

And eagle. Once i accepted that I NOTICE everything, then here comes the eagle. They notice everything too. Vision. They see things coming from a long way away.

Once I accepted that I'm not being run over anymore, that I can clean up death, here comes crow. You seldom ever see a crow as road kill, its hard to run a crow over. Raven Grimmassi has tremendous stories about crows that he spent an afternoon relating to me. He is all crow. You see the crow in him and the crow sees itself in him.

Some animals no longer have non physical form like dragons. Is that self evidential. Sure I don't anyone wants to see it but again, spirit is expressed through the physical. Now the dragon no longer has physical form who will it express through if the aspects of one's dragon is accepted?

When my dragon first came to me, I was accused of over-reacting and being angry. But it was far beyond that. There was no angry present, or even a reaction it was simply expressing that aspect with the entity breathing fire into it. You don't fly the dragon it flies you. That dragons lends that energy to that aspect and it completely took me over for a time to accomplish something needed to be accomplished. . Of course I succumb to the guilt of behaving inappropriately, but a physical turtle came along and shared its wisdom to let me know I had behaved in appropriately in spiritual since that i had choice origin over conditions about public behavior. The entire incident was about child protection and when the guilt was inflicted on me about protecting my own child, the turlte came and left her eggs with me to show me that she trusted me to look after her children. I should trust myself to look after mine.

Some old shaman or medicine man or someone had related to me a story about man kind's fall, and that we began casting off (or having them stolen) our precious aspects and abilities, and in doing so created animals as a means to preserve certain aspects of ourselves that were being lost so they could hold them for us until we were brave enough to find ourselves again. Pieces of ourselves. Self integration.

I've always loved that story.

[Sebastion]

I think now that after your article I have a little better understanding. There is much to know and learn about regarding natural energies-animals, birds, etc. Methinks a lot of it is perhaps, subtle and has a natural language of it's own. I would believe that it is human arrogance itself which would block access to that natural language.

Thank you 9eagle9!





Do you have the rest of your life? (he he)

The more I know about animal totems, daily I'm shown more.

To start is an understanding of totems and energy. They are not two separate events. We are not separate from totems. We may not share aspects with certain totems but it is about sharing aspects.

Plant spirit helpers are totems too and roughly this occurs in the same way.

Totems are aspects of ourselves that represent what we have gotten away from. Animals not having the same sort of consciousness and a different sort of ego than humans are actually more trustworthy. Particularly in the wild , where they have not been conditioned. An animals ego is more physical oriented, and survival mode than a since of self gratification or greed.

So they carry the energy of aspects of ourselves that have lost, set aside, were tampered away from, ignored or however we've gotten away from them.

People tend to be enamored by non physical guides of any sort. Forgetting the spirit is expressed through the physical. We are in a physical world , our spirit is expressed here if we allow it or remove the conditons or program that disallow its full free expression. So are other spirits, expressed through a physical body. Spirit speaks through other people.

Animal totems express different dimensions of themselves and we learn to respect all dimensions. The spiritual and the physical. In some respects animals who have the physical ego going on strong, an animal may not come to you in physical form but will come in spiritual form. Or they will come to you in a fashion that honors you but keeps them safe. Most of animal calling is done unconsciously at first. The first animal I called as an adult was a skunk..lol. it came right to my hand. When the skunk and I both realized how we were interacting we both went into fear mode. I fled.

Skunk brings out that aspect that teaches one to stand their ground. The skunk has no reason to back down, Skunk has a simple but powerful means of coaxing you to back down that has no language, not a weapon but is a naturally occuring aspect of the animal.

We learn to respect. To learn to call an animal in physical form , is not a place for people who have something to prove or that the animal will validate in some fashion. That's another co-dependency, an unhealthy attachment. This is why people tend to 'pick' powerful animal totems, the glamorous fancy ones, they think the totem will validate them. Rather like kissing and telling or 'taking trophy animals'. They are in no way in alignment with that animal .No different than people who hunt for trophy animals. If one is patient the animal gives you their own trophy. They willingly give a token of themselves to remind you of shared aspects.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s174/celticknot_2007/Shopphotos063.jpg

some totems come into to share something and you don't really align with them, its something one needs to know that my ultimately end up in alignment with another totem. Crow may lead to wolf. They will give a token too of that medicine. There's not need to trophy hunt spiritually one only needs to accept what one may percieve as undesirable aspects of one's self. Who assigned the value of undesirable? Not the totem, it didn't. We did. Then we wonder why the totem doesn't express or make itself evident. If you have a wolf totem you will have a wolfish aspect to yourself. You can't force it because....you don't have it or you are unmindfully suspressing it. An animal will express itself according to it's nature. You let cow in your home and it will still need to be milked and jet liquid manure all over the place. It doesn't care about your white carpet and sterile environment.Why should it. For that matter why did you invite it in if you were going to make its aspects unwelcome.

I don't care if its meergoogoo living on Mars a totem will find a way to gift you.

Acceptance is the better portion of alignment. You may ask an totem to share with you an aspect you may feel you don't have, but it that is a naturally occurring aspect of yourSELF it will impose enough of its own energy to bring that forward in you.

Are we willing to accept that a totems' expression can be in death? I have had totems commit suicide on me. An owl striking me in the heart center when I accepted my heart knowing and my intelligence. When I accepted that fully the owl that came to roost outside my kitchen window stopped screaming at me all night when I resisted my heart's wisdom.

People confuse admiration of a totem with alignment. I admire tigers, I am not in alignment with their natural ebb and flow. I respect that and the tiger respects me back. If you want or desire an aspect of animal without finding it in yourself, its just an attachment, and unhealthy one sided love affair. Attempting to use or thieve it's energy.

The totem really doesn't choose you, its not a popularity contest, its about sharing and alignment and no contest is present in those realms. There's similar aspects at work which one shares. Energy is attractive. You accept certain aspects of yourself and the totem(s) will make themselves known to you.

When I accepted (not in this life time) that side of myself that says 'Ha ha if you can catch me you ride me,' I fell into alignment with the horse. That's what a horse does. When I accepted my right to freedom, my air, my power, that I am strong and vulnerable at the same time, i go further into alignment with horse. I am fire horse woman, (Chinese Astrology) they are hugely unpopular and undesirable, they were put to death in Eastern culture because they made unsuitable wives.

I accept that. Ha ha, if you can catch me you can kill me.

'IF'

Fire horse and water horse.


Other obvious totem animals are chickens. I accepted that one can live in a community and make it a working community and still have pecking and scratching, and outrage and it still a working community. Chickens are by no means cowards but one seldom sees one admitting to having a 'weak' totem. Chickens aren't weak.

so someone who thinks they are in alignment with a predator animal and decides my chicken aspect makes me weak and sets abuses that totem in way meant to attack my aspect will have a wake up call. There are several aspects, someone attacks the chicken and the horse will kick.

No contest. The totem instead attempts to bring out an aspect that you share with that animal.

The aspects of my totems are self evidential and they are translated into human values that are less than flattering....lol. You get a mind conditioned human zombie addressing a totemic aspect there's an artificial language being spoken and a natural one. Ultimately nature wins. Why do I poke my nose where it doesn't belong? Why does the horse do it?

And eagle. Once i accepted that I NOTICE everything, then here comes the eagle. They notice everything too. Vision. They see things coming from a long way away.

Once I accepted that I'm not being run over anymore, that I can clean up death, here comes crow. You seldom ever see a crow as road kill, its hard to run a crow over. Raven Grimmassi has tremendous stories about crows that he spent an afternoon relating to me. He is all crow. You see the crow in him and the crow sees itself in him.

Some animals no longer have non physical form like dragons. Is that self evidential. Sure I don't anyone wants to see it but again, spirit is expressed through the physical. Now the dragon no longer has physical form who will it express through if the aspects of one's dragon is accepted?

When my dragon first came to me, I was accused of over-reacting and being angry. But it was far beyond that. There was no angry present, or even a reaction it was simply expressing that aspect with the entity breathing fire into it. You don't fly the dragon it flies you. That dragons lends that energy to that aspect and it completely took me over for a time to accomplish something needed to be accomplished. . Of course I succumb to the guilt of behaving inappropriately, but a physical turtle came along and shared its wisdom to let me know I had behaved in appropriately in spiritual since that i had choice origin over conditions about public behavior. The entire incident was about child protection and when the guilt was inflicted on me about protecting my own child, the turlte came and left her eggs with me to show me that she trusted me to look after her children. I should trust myself to look after mine.

Some old shaman or medicine man or someone had related to me a story about man kind's fall, and that we began casting off (or having them stolen) our precious aspects and abilities, and in doing so created animals as a means to preserve certain aspects of ourselves that were being lost so they could hold them for us until we were brave enough to find ourselves again. Pieces of ourselves. Self integration.

I've always loved that story.

[9eagle9]

And after thinking about this overnight the specifics of what you say you have of course certain aspects of bear energy. She said it herself, she'd be back when back when (when you are ready to accept certain aspects of yourself.) When we do not accept certain aspects of ourselves we are confronted with them. This can happen spiritually or even in actual physical reality. Refusing to accept one's self often ends in the death of self. In conflict with our own aspects.

Mother bears represent independence, protection, flexibility, amiability, going with the flow,nurturing, maternal and divine female energies, guardianship, and solitude, renewal, progressive death and rebirth throughout one's life.


Going 'Bear in the Cave' reflects one's desire to retreat from the mainstream and hermetize themselves in solitude. A bear in confrontation very nearly almost ends with the bear 'nearly' killing the recipient. She's forced you to confront the aspects that you share. Show your teeth. The Bear and the skunk share the attributes of 'standing' one's ground. The bear literally stands . Takes its stand.

Bears are interesting as the bear (ha ha ) a certain reflection on the current human condition. Male and Female Separation. Instead of aligning our natural energies we have created a separation with them in the roles that males and females have had imposed on them. It also reflects the loss of sacred sexuality.

I have noticed both sexes having difficulty accepting bear energies or aspects. My friend when exploring subject vehemently refused to accept bear, and argued every point possible to deny her 'bear-ing'. As she argued with me (I didn't say anything because she can't argue with a bear and it wasn't my argument to engage in, it was the bears..lol) she pulled a coffee cup from my cabinet and poured herself some coffee, the entire time dressing down the subject of her bear aspects. When she shut up long enough to sip her coffee . I said you've accepted it regardless if you know it or not.

She denied this, so I told her to look at her cup. It had a bear on it. She was wise enough to give up by that time and went to a place of acceptance.


Druids viewed the bear as a seeker of wisdom, because they are often found flipping salmon (wisdom) from rivers. King Arthur was known as the Bear king.
Druids also viewed bears as a rarity (extinct now in the British Isles) and perceived people as being a rare sort of person, one that is in acceptance of the physical world by being in alignment with the natural and spiritual world.

King Arthur's story reflects his alignment with the physical and natural world and his attempts to reconcile others into that alignment. And his fall from grace from allowing an imbalance between the physical and spiritual. He refused his bear. He refused his dragon (the druids perceived the dragon as coming into the bear body when the dragon-physical no longer was to be found.)

The dragon having no physical aspect to express itself through most often expressed through the mother bear so there may be some dragon aspects that are to be explored.

Arthur denied his self authority , a sword represents our self authority energy and integration, he ultimately gave that sword up at the end because he gave up his self authority. You do that and you die in some means. Maybe sooner, maybe later. perhaps not physically but one dies on the vine. The more he pushed aware the natural occuring energies the more they receded and shrouded themselves from those who would not accept.




9eagle9-do you have any information on the significance of totem animal energies? I have had some major lucid dreams occur to me many years ago concerning several different animals, but bear energy has been with me all my life.

For instance, the dark side of the feminine was represented to me in an all too lucid dream as a very large, black, very enraged black bear sow with flaming red eyes. I was to have 2 run ins with her as it turned out. The first incident, I was able to escape her wrath yet she telepathically told me that we would meet again, as I ran from her laughing hysterically in my terror. The second time, I had to face that wrath physically and it nearly ended my life as a result. I am not at liberty to reveal the details.

[Sebastion]

I wish to relate a little story of my own concerning human arrogance. Call me crazy but it happened none-the -less and I learned a lot from it as a result...

I was mowing the grass on a saturday morning which is about as mundane as it gets. I had several acres to mow and wanted to get through it as quickly as I could. As I was about to finish up a particular section and not thinking about anything at all, I suddenly was overwhelmed by a strong feeling of "terror". Knowing instantly, the terror was not "mine", I quickly looked around at the neighbors homes to see what was going on. It was only mid-morning and the neighbors were all still inside. There was no one to be seen....

Still feeling the "terror", I kept looking around-nothing to see. Looking around for the "source" of the terror, my attention was drawn to my left leg. It was there that I saw a little green grasshopper clinging to my leg. I "knew" instantly that those feelings of terror were coming from him. Much to my astonishment, I knew instantly that my little riding mower was destroying everything that grasshopper had ever known, knew instantly that that grasshopper had every bit as much right to be here as I did, no more and certainly no less. I knew instantly the full truth of that statement.

I shut the blades down, assisted the grasshopper safely away from the mower and pulled away. I saw in a flash how arrogant towards natural things I had always been, especially towards much smaller things. I felt completely embarrassed in my own ignorant arrogance. I parked the mower, stood up and announced to the insect world that I would be back in a bit to finish, asking them to clear out. Most all of them had gone when I returned. Made it a habit from that day on to give ample warning to the little ones before firing up the lawn mower!

Methinks that we too feel the same way when a big tornado comes through town and destroys everything we know as well....

[Sebastion]

Your post is allowing me to connect dots going all the way back to childhood. It is information I have searched for, for many years....now I understand and it brings much peace to me! I extend my profound gratitude to you...thank you most sincerely!





And after thinking about this overnight the specifics of what you say you have of course certain aspects of bear energy. She said it herself, she'd be back when back when (when you are ready to accept certain aspects of yourself.) When we do not accept certain aspects of ourselves we are confronted with them. This can happen spiritually or even in actual physical reality. Refusing to accept one's self often ends in the death of self. In conflict with our own aspects.

Mother bears represent independence, protection, flexibility, amiability, going with the flow,nurturing, maternal and divine female energies, guardianship, and solitude, renewal, progressive death and rebirth throughout one's life.


Going 'Bear in the Cave' reflects one's desire to retreat from the mainstream and hermetize themselves in solitude. A bear in confrontation very nearly almost ends with the bear 'nearly' killing the recipient. She's forced you to confront the aspects that you share. Show your teeth. The Bear and the skunk share the attributes of 'standing' one's ground. The bear literally stands . Takes its stand.

Bears are interesting as the bear (ha ha ) a certain reflection on the current human condition. Male and Female Separation. Instead of aligning our natural energies we have created a separation with them in the roles that males and females have had imposed on them. It also reflects the loss of sacred sexuality.

I have noticed both sexes having difficulty accepting bear energies or aspects. My friend when exploring subject vehemently refused to accept bear, and argued every point possible to deny her 'bear-ing'. As she argued with me (I didn't say anything because she can't argue with a bear and it wasn't my argument to engage in, it was the bears..lol) she pulled a coffee cup from my cabinet and poured herself some coffee, the entire time dressing down the subject of her bear aspects. When she shut up long enough to sip her coffee . I said you've accepted it regardless if you know it or not.

She denied this, so I told her to look at her cup. It had a bear on it. She was wise enough to give up by that time and went to a place of acceptance.


Druids viewed the bear as a seeker of wisdom, because they are often found flipping salmon (wisdom) from rivers. King Arthur was known as the Bear king.
Druids also viewed bears as a rarity (extinct now in the British Isles) and perceived people as being a rare sort of person, one that is in acceptance of the physical world by being in alignment with the natural and spiritual world.

King Arthur's story reflects his alignment with the physical and natural world and his attempts to reconcile others into that alignment. And his fall from grace from allowing an imbalance between the physical and spiritual. He refused his bear. He refused his dragon (the druids perceived the dragon as coming into the bear body when the dragon-physical no longer was to be found.)

The dragon having no physical aspect to express itself through most often expressed through the mother bear so there may be some dragon aspects that are to be explored.

Arthur denied his self authority , a sword represents our self authority energy and integration, he ultimately gave that sword up at the end because he gave up his self authority. You do that and you die in some means. Maybe sooner, maybe later. perhaps not physically but one dies on the vine. The more he pushed aware the natural occuring energies the more they receded and shrouded themselves from those who would not accept.




9eagle9-do you have any information on the significance of totem animal energies? I have had some major lucid dreams occur to me many years ago concerning several different animals, but bear energy has been with me all my life.

For instance, the dark side of the feminine was represented to me in an all too lucid dream as a very large, black, very enraged black bear sow with flaming red eyes. I was to have 2 run ins with her as it turned out. The first incident, I was able to escape her wrath yet she telepathically told me that we would meet again, as I ran from her laughing hysterically in my terror. The second time, I had to face that wrath physically and it nearly ended my life as a result. I am not at liberty to reveal the details.

[write4change]

Wow eagle what a great totem. I feel the power. Maybe unlike cow and buffalo skulls, I rarely see a horse. Looking at it, I feel the essence of its wisdom. I feel I know why I think a horse is so wise and therefore so powerful.

Sebastion, that was really a great story about mowing. I will always remember it and when I get back to the land I will always honor it by doing it.

[Sebastion]

Thank you write4change. I remember being split down the middle in my thinking during that episode. Before telling the insects I would be back, I made sure nobody was in earshot of me. Part of me felt patently ridiculous while knowing the full truth of it in the other half! I gave in to the truth. Had to face my own arrogance for what it was. That little grasshopper taught me a major life lesson and I will ever honor and respect it........





Wow eagle what a great totem. I feel the power. Maybe unlike cow and buffalo skulls, I rarely see a horse. Looking at it, I feel the essence of its wisdom. I feel I know why I think a horse is so wise and therefore so powerful.

Sebastion, that was really a great story about mowing. I will always remember it and when I get back to the land I will always honor it by doing it.

[NancyV]

Thank you write4change. I remember being split down the middle in my thinking during that episode. Before telling the insects I would be back, I made sure nobody was in earshot of me. Part of me felt patently ridiculous while knowing the full truth of it in the other half! I gave in to the truth. Had to face my own arrogance for what it was. That little grasshopper taught me a major life lesson and I will ever honor and respect it........
That reminds me of an interaction I had with a dragonfly a few months ago. As I was coming out of our apartment I saw something laying upside down on the concrete so went over to look closely. It was a dragonfly upside down and unable to turn over. I could tell that it was injured, probably from the leaf blowers that had recently completed their work. So I picked up the dragonfly and set it upright on a bush outside our door. Over the next few days I put some water near it on leaves, since it hadn't left and was apparently unable to fly. I checked on it several times a day and I could tell that it was going to die. It lived for at least a week-10 days and a couple of times it had fallen into the bush but was still alive so I set it upright and it would grasp onto a small branch again. I talked to the dragonfly every time I checked on it and sent energy to it. Maybe that's why it lived so long. Even after it died I left it in the bush and it didn't disappear for a couple of months. Of course my husband laughed at me for talking to the dragonfly. I even talked to it after it was dead! LOL...

My first attempt to communicate with an "animal" was with a fly. I was probably about 10 years old and had just finished reading one of my grandparents books regarding communicating with animals. I saw a fly flying around so decided to call it to me. I put out my hand and talked both aloud and mentally. Sure enough the fly came over and landed right on my hand! My grandparents were both metaphysically inclined and had a huge library of esoteric books. When I told them about what happened they thought it was quite normal to call a fly to land on my hand. They believed that we humans are basically unlimited in our abilities.

The only other strange animal totem I had was when a large golden dragon showed up in my living room and was there every day for a couple of months. I've mentioned it before on the forum. The dragon was quite happy just to be there watching me....until my husband came into my life. Then all the beings that had been around me left. I have seen over the 16 years we've been married that both positive and negative spirits stay very far away from him. If they accidentally encounter him, they quickly leave. Nobody wants anything to do with him ....except for me!!! I've always felt that we got together not just because we are twin flames and soul mates, but so I could protect others from HIM! LOL... He's a very scary and powerful being who has had many experiences with what you might call demons and angels...and sometimes it's hard to tell them apart. One of his sayings is "God don't want me and the devil is scared of me". Despite all that he is one of the most advanced spiritually aware beings I've ever met...and he never talks about it to anyone besides me. He truly doesn't care about much of anything other than being in love with me.

Many of us who are somewhat spiritually aware think that detachment is a rather evolved state, but we are still attached! It's those ever present cords that 9eagle9 has explained so well. My husband is the only person I've ever met who has almost no cords at all, and he could easily cut those if he chose to. Obviously you must have enough attachment to keep on breathing and getting up every day, but many of us still care about the state of the world, our children, the future, the government, helping others, yadda yadda yadda.... He doesn't care about any of it. Even wanting to pass on any knowledge you've gained is an attachment. Maybe we really don't want to be totally detached, I sure don't. I love my attachments and cords, even though I don't have very many. Might as well enjoy being human while we're here in 3D.

:)

[Sebastion]

Nancy, I am in agreement with all that you have said. I have found that in the last year when I have read your posts, I have been in about 98% agreement, therefore saw that any post of mine would have been a repeat of yours! lol

There is one thing though that I noticed in my early teens. I knew a lot of people who had lived through both world wars and were extremely wise folks. Many had knowledge that was lost to the world the day they died, some of it was old home grown medicine remedies. Some of it was just pure and well seasoned wisdom about a lot of things. I always found that the world lost a lot more then just really fine people when they went home. There is a lot of good stuff on this thread and it doesn't disappear necessarily when we do.......






Thank you write4change. I remember being split down the middle in my thinking during that episode. Before telling the insects I would be back, I made sure nobody was in earshot of me. Part of me felt patently ridiculous while knowing the full truth of it in the other half! I gave in to the truth. Had to face my own arrogance for what it was. That little grasshopper taught me a major life lesson and I will ever honor and respect it........
That reminds me of an interaction I had with a dragonfly a few months ago. As I was coming out of our apartment I saw something laying upside down on the concrete so went over to look closely. It was a dragonfly upside down and unable to turn over. I could tell that it was injured, probably from the leaf blowers that had recently completed their work. So I picked up the dragonfly and set it upright on a bush outside our door. Over the next few days I put some water near it on leaves, since it hadn't left and was apparently unable to fly. I checked on it several times a day and I could tell that it was going to die. It lived for at least a week-10 days and a couple of times it had fallen into the bush but was still alive so I set it upright and it would grasp onto a small branch again. I talked to the dragonfly every time I checked on it and sent energy to it. Maybe that's why it lived so long. Even after it died I left it in the bush and it didn't disappear for a couple of months. Of course my husband laughed at me for talking to the dragonfly. I even talked to it after it was dead! LOL...

My first attempt to communicate with an "animal" was with a fly. I was probably about 10 years old and had just finished reading one of my grandparents books regarding communicating with animals. I saw a fly flying around so decided to call it to me. I put out my hand and talked both aloud and mentally. Sure enough the fly came over and landed right on my hand! My grandparents were both metaphysically inclined and had a huge library of esoteric books. When I told them about what happened they thought it was quite normal to call a fly to land on my hand. They believed that we humans are basically unlimited in our abilities.

The only other strange animal totem I had was when a large golden dragon showed up in my living room and was there every day for a couple of months. I've mentioned it before on the forum. The dragon was quite happy just to be there watching me....until my husband came into my life. Then all the beings that had been around me left. I have seen over the 16 years we've been married that both positive and negative spirits stay very far away from him. If they accidentally encounter him, they quickly leave. Nobody wants anything to do with him ....except for me!!! I've always felt that we got together not just because we are twin flames and soul mates, but so I could protect others from HIM! LOL... He's a very scary and powerful being who has had many experiences with what you might call demons and angels...and sometimes it's hard to tell them apart. One of his sayings is "God don't want me and the devil is scared of me". Despite all that he is one of the most advanced spiritually aware beings I've ever met...and he never talks about it to anyone besides me. He truly doesn't care about much of anything other than being in love with me.

Many of us who are somewhat spiritually aware think that detachment is a rather evolved state, but we are still attached! It's those ever present cords that 9eagle9 has explained so well. My husband is the only person I've ever met who has almost no cords at all, and he could easily cut those if he chose to. Obviously you must have enough attachment to keep on breathing and getting up every day, but many of us still care about the state of the world, our children, the future, the government, helping others, yadda yadda yadda.... He doesn't care about any of it. Even wanting to pass on any knowledge you've gained is an attachment. Maybe we really don't want to be totally detached, I sure don't. I love my attachments and cords, even though I don't have very many. Might as well enjoy being human while we're here in 3D.

:)

[Tenzin]

This is one of those threads that makes Avalon so special. :)

* Corded in. *

[Bo Atkinson]

Some hornets moved in while i was building my ferrocement, wavy dome. (As of 2005 i was still on the lower levels of cells, when they moved in- It took me years of stabs at building this, one 'cell' per given day-session, now and then.)
http://harmoniouspalette.com/wavydomeHornetNest.jpg
We got along just fine. Maybe they liked my beehive studies and modeling, heh. Hornets commute very fast: start-zoom-gone or zoom-stop-back. They never once banged into me nor me into them. In 2007 , they wanted to start nests right where i was adding cement, near to the top, (they hibernate under ground, i'm told). Sorry guys, i had to remove them as i worked along. They seemed to accept the problem of construction. Thanks. The wasps also love this place and ultimately, they seemed to prosper right inside the greenhouse partition, inside today. We have observed them crawling all over some plants, lapping up aphids! My wife loves that, as she spends much time tending her floral plants. We hope they are also eating scale (pesty organisms), which deplete greenhouses. (Most people spray insecticides and use 'systemic' chemicals. We sacrifice high yields to instead work at and study harmonious solutions. My wife is one of the dedicated people, working hard at IPM (integrated pest management).

I almost wanted to preserve this nest but then decided to let nature dismantle it, as seen above. Gravity takes over, in the end.

[Sebastion]

Thank you Tenzin as your comment is much appreciated. It is the quality of the posts of some really fine people here that makes it that way....




This is one of those threads that makes Avalon so special. :)

* Corded in. *

[Sebastion]

It looks like your doing some really cool stuff and harmonizing with nature and doing the natural thing. I just wish that I could get along with wasps better then I do...maybe some day! lol





Some hornets moved in while i was building my ferrocement, wavy dome. (As of 2005 i was still on the lower levels of cells, when they moved in- It took me years of stabs at building this, one 'cell' per given day-session, now and then.)
http://harmoniouspalette.com/wavydomeHornetNest.jpg
We got along just fine. Maybe they liked my beehive studies and modeling, heh. Hornets commute very fast: start-zoom-gone or zoom-stop-back. They never once banged into me nor me into them. In 2007 , they wanted to start nests right where i was adding cement, near to the top, (they hibernate under ground, i'm told). Sorry guys, i had to remove them as i worked along. They seemed to accept the problem of construction. Thanks. The wasps also love this place and ultimately, they seemed to prosper right inside the greenhouse partition, inside today. We have observed them crawling all over some plants, lapping up aphids! My wife loves that, as she spends much time tending her floral plants. We hope they are also eating scale (pesty organisms), which deplete greenhouses. (Most people spray insecticides and use 'systemic' chemicals. We sacrifice high yields to instead work at and study harmonious solutions. My wife is one of the dedicated people, working hard at IPM (integrated pest management).

I almost wanted to preserve this nest but then decided to let nature dismantle it, as seen above. Gravity takes over, in the end.

[another bob]

I just wish that I could get along with wasps better then I do...maybe some day! lol



http://i42.tinypic.com/1zlgdc5.gif

[Sebastion]

Lol AB, I have almost the same problem with hornets too, but their sting isn't quite as bad!





I just wish that I could get along with wasps better then I do...maybe some day! lol



http://i42.tinypic.com/1zlgdc5.gif

[Sebastion]

There has been a situation playing out right out in front of my nose between 2 friends of mine that has allowed me to see something in a new light concerning "judgement". It has allowed me to observe what negative judgement really does. It begins to create an energetic separation. It also has a tendency to breed even more negative judgements which further divides and separates until the chasm created becomes so wide that no bridge can span it. Thus, what was a perfectly good friendship ends.

I bring this up for a reason. In much higher states of consciousness, that 800 pound gorilla called judgement does not exist.

I realize that bringing up any discussion concerning judgement on a conspiracy forum is probably not one of the wisest things to do, yet keep in mind that I am not talking necessarily about the world at large, but rather to how judgements you have rendered against yourself separates you personally from yourself. I can personally see how it kept me crippled under the weight of it for many, many years.

[9eagle9]

Judgement is a naughty word

However there is thing called assessment, and from that discernment can be used. The emotional content of judgement has been taken away.



There has been a situation playing out right out in front of my nose between 2 friends of mine that has allowed me to see something in a new light concerning "judgement". It has allowed me to observe what negative judgement really does. It begins to create an energetic separation. It also has a tendency to breed even more negative judgements which further divides and separates until the chasm created becomes so wide that no bridge can span it. Thus, what was a perfectly good friendship ends.

I bring this up for a reason. In much higher states of consciousness, that 800 pound gorilla called judgement does not exist.

I realize that bringing up any discussion concerning judgement on a conspiracy forum is probably not one of the wisest things to do, yet keep in mind that I am not talking necessarily about the world at large, but rather to how judgements you have rendered against yourself separates you personally from yourself. I can personally see how it kept me crippled under the weight of it for many, many years.

[Sebastion]

Agreed fully! Giving up the need to judge does not mean giving up any form of discernment and there is a major difference between the two!

Judgement then is an "idea" which if plugged into causes energetic separation in a vast array of ways. It is the great gorilla which sits on the back of mankind which wreaks separation upon the world. Kind of an ugly beast it is......




Judgement is a naughty word

However there is thing called assessment, and from that discernment can be used. The emotional content of judgement has been taken away.



There has been a situation playing out right out in front of my nose between 2 friends of mine that has allowed me to see something in a new light concerning "judgement". It has allowed me to observe what negative judgement really does. It begins to create an energetic separation. It also has a tendency to breed even more negative judgements which further divides and separates until the chasm created becomes so wide that no bridge can span it. Thus, what was a perfectly good friendship ends.

I bring this up for a reason. In much higher states of consciousness, that 800 pound gorilla called judgement does not exist.

I realize that bringing up any discussion concerning judgement on a conspiracy forum is probably not one of the wisest things to do, yet keep in mind that I am not talking necessarily about the world at large, but rather to how judgements you have rendered against yourself separates you personally from yourself. I can personally see how it kept me crippled under the weight of it for many, many years.

[write4change]

Agreed fully! Giving up the need to judge does not mean giving up any form of discernment and there is a major difference between the two!

Judgement then is an "idea" which if plugged into causes energetic separation in a vast array of ways. It is the great gorilla which sits on the back of mankind which wreaks separation upon the world. Kind of an ugly beast it is......




Judgement is a naughty word

However there is thing called assessment, and from that discernment can be used. The emotional content of judgement has been taken away.



There has been a situation playing out right out in front of my nose between 2 friends of mine that has allowed me to see something in a new light concerning "judgement". It has allowed me to observe what negative judgement really does. It begins to create an energetic separation. It also has a tendency to breed even more negative judgements which further divides and separates until the chasm created becomes so wide that no bridge can span it. Thus, what was a perfectly good friendship ends.

I bring this up for a reason. In much higher states of consciousness, that 800 pound gorilla called judgement does not exist.

I realize that bringing up any discussion concerning judgement on a conspiracy forum is probably not one of the wisest things to do, yet keep in mind that I am not talking necessarily about the world at large, but rather to how judgements you have rendered against yourself separates you personally from yourself. I can personally see how it kept me crippled under the weight of it for many, many years.

I live and teach with stories. The tale of god learning discernment for himself is one of my favoriet from the Midrash. The Midrash is considered sacred folk tales; less than Talmud rabbinical teachings. But known for its powers of capturing the imagination.

How god created the world acording to the Midrash:

In the chaos that was the beginning of the universe, god reached down with his mercy and grabbed a handful of mud to shape the earth. But it was too soft and would hold no form. So he began again with different thought. This time he reached down with judgement and grabbed handfuls of slate and stone to form the world. But it was too brittle and collapsed out of balance. Having felt both total mercy and total judgement in his hands, he reached down again and grabbed a handful of mud and a handful of stone and the earth held and was formed. And god discerned that it was good.

I was told this very young and when I teach it to the very young you can see many faces light up with the aha.

[Sebastion]

I need to add to this thread as it is very appropriate to the OP. There are some and perhaps more who believe that we are "trapped" in 3d.

Please understand that the notion of being trapped is, in fact, an "idea" and that's all it is. If you believe yourself to be trapped, then you have plugged into that idea and it thus becomes your "reality". Step back and look at it for what it is and free yourself from the concept. You can see and understand the concept without having any need to plug into it for yourself. That is the key....

[Bo Atkinson]

Hi again friends!

I'm glad to see this thread continuing, but am perplexed why it was not visible on my screen, again, until just now-- This very day.
:confused: ???


I saw another bob's cartoon days ago and wondered if my post needed more clarity. I figured folks don't really care what my particular wasps look like. Couldn't see this discussion-thread continuing. Thought it might have been completed. Try it again:

Here is the sort of wasp which eats pests in my greenhouses:
http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/Images/CfumipenniswithEAB.JPG

The small yellow jacket type of wasp is also around here but does not come inside. This blacker wasp is common, has a powerful sting, but is actually conversant and can act friendly.... They can lift up their heads and wave antenna when i send my thoughts to them, with finger extended to them. They never sting, even when close up-- Except if the nest is jostled, (accidentally). They build these under tools sometimes.... Even then, patience and a few paces of distance, allows them to calm down. To move a mis-placed nest with care: Do it at night-- no problem. Scrape off a newly started nest without eggs-- no problem.

I try to be friendly, if opportunity is plain to see. Yet at the moment, opportunity seems fulfilled. I think it best to be reserved too, not click too many thanks. Just a few now and then, if words escape me. The worded discussions seem worthy as thank-yous.

With such thanks,

waydome

[Sebastion]

Wavydome, the easy and gentle way in which you live with all in your greenhouse is the very way methinks we were all supposed to live with all of life on the entire planet!

I salute you sir!





Hi again friends!

I'm glad to see this thread continuing, but am perplexed why it was not visible on my screen, again, until just now-- This very day.
:confused: ???


I saw another bob's cartoon days ago and wondered if my post needed more clarity. I figured folks don't really care what my particular wasps look like. Couldn't see this discussion-thread continuing. Thought it might have been completed. Try it again:

Here is the sort of wasp which eats pests in my greenhouses:
http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/Images/CfumipenniswithEAB.JPG

The small yellow jacket type of wasp is also around here but does not come inside. This blacker wasp is common, has a powerful sting, but is actually conversant and can act friendly.... They can lift up their heads and wave antenna when i send my thoughts to them, with finger extended to them. They never sting, even when close up-- Except if the nest is jostled, (accidentally). They build these under tools sometimes.... Even then, patience and a few paces of distance, allows them to calm down. To move a mis-placed nest with care: Do it at night-- no problem. Scrape off a newly started nest without eggs-- no problem.

I try to be friendly, if opportunity is plain to see. Yet at the moment, opportunity seems fulfilled. I think it best to be reserved too, not click too many thanks. Just a few now and then, if words escape me. The worded discussions seem worthy as thank-yous.

With such thanks,

waydome

[Sebastion]

I have taken a post from the Bashar thread to post here as it is further evidence to the fact that all things exist as an energetic idea.

Bashar uses the term "idea" sixteen different times! It's all ideas....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQPYY00Bvhc

[Sebastion]

It has come to my attention that there is a great healing which needs to take place within the self and that is the healing of hurt, etc. between the masculine and feminine energies.

My entire life has been showing me that time and time again and I could not see it. To be honest, I thought that had occurred within me during my episodes in cosmic consciousness. It was not shown to me until yesterday, again, that that has to occur within me at the physical level as well. Sometimes I can be really thick!

The evidence of that necessity is rampant across the forum. I can now see that when the healing between those energies has occurred, you have and will be tapped in directly to your true, authentic self and total empowerment. At-one-ment within you will be achieved.

[9eagle9]

Healing of the conflict between the inner masculine and feminine is necessary. There is lot of conflict there because we've had so many roles associated with both energies, in order to corrupt their authentic expression. Those roles keep evolving instead of being removed.

[Sebastion]

As you have noted in a previous post, it is a mystifying experience. I just love it when I keep learning things! It makes life interesting for sure! The healing continues....