Cashless currency takes off ....

[heyokah]

A determination to 'move beyond anger to creativity' is driving a strong barter economy in some places in Greece.

In recent weeks, Theodoros Mavridis has bought fresh eggs, tsipourou (the local brandy: beware), fruit, olives, olive oil, jam, and soap. He has also had some legal advice, and enjoyed the services of an accountant to help fill in his tax return.

None of it has cost him a euro, because he had previously done a spot of electrical work – repairing a TV, sorting out a dodgy light – for some of the 800-odd members of a fast-growing exchange network in the port town of Volos, midway between Athens and Thessaloniki.

In return for his expert labour, Mavridis received a number of Local Alternative Units (known as tems in Greek) in his online network account. In return for the eggs, olive oil, tax advice and the rest, he transferred tems into other people's accounts.

"It's an easier, more direct way of exchanging goods and services," said Bernhardt Koppold, a German-born homeopathist and acupuncturist in Volos who is an active member of the network. "It's also a way of showing practical solidarity – of building relationships."

"You are not poor when you have no money. You are poor when you have nothing to offer – except for the elderly and the sick, to whom we should all be offering."

Read more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/16/greece-on-breadline-cashless-currency

[Operator]

"You are not poor when you have no money. You are poor when you have nothing to offer – except for the elderly and the sick, to whom we should all be offering."


Well said ... I'll second that ! :peace:

[Cidersomerset]

Unfortunately barter is totally unstainable for large populations, sure locally its fine and could help a few, and
bartering has never gone away a lot of people do favours for each other either for future help or for payment
in kind etc..In these current times in some countries short term, some sort of barter is fine....

But what happens when you are ill do you barter with a Doctor how do you pay a nurse....
Do you give me a egg to deliver your mail so i collect door to door ...Who collects the trash
how do you buy a car a house...Fine if you already have one. What about all the other material
things fine if everyone is prepared to be equal, all the land is reditributed so all the people in
the city highrise flats can have a plot of land , but how do they get there.....

We are along way from a free society. If cold fusion is rolled out over the next decade
that would be a big step toward getting rid of the financial shackles...
The Plajoren societies Billy Meier talks about are spiritualy advanced, where the collective
society is mature enough to have equality in work and leisure and vocational persuits...

It is nice to see people getting to know each other again as in some places many do not
even know or are to scared to speak to their neighbours. Getting local economies going
cannot be a bad thing, and it would be nice to see all these beaurocrats out in the fields
digging potatoes...But did not Pol Pot try that and socielist and capitilists systems have
failed the world ....We need a new existence and rich and poor should be abolished
but how we do this is going to the biggest challenge for our future !!!

[Bryn ap Gwilym]

The old Guardian playing the zeitgeist stealth card again.

All sounds good on paper, but most in the western world do not yet have the skills to barter.
And when it boils down to the basics, there are only 3 trades that truly matter & they in theory should hold all the cards. In order of priority.
1. Farmer.
2. Builder.
3. Medic. (but 1 & 2 could also be trained in basic medicine making 3 redundant).

So now all others are surplus to requirement, what will they have to offer the new masters 1,2 & maybe 3?

Over the years I have heard countless folk scream at me as they try to justify how important either their job or qualifications are, but the truth of the matter is, if they are not in the top 3 then they are surplus to requirement.

Again, it all sounds good on paper & this may very well tickle middle class + fancy, but they over look the fact there are some right hard-uns out there who will just take what they want period. Welcome to the streets!!


Again this won't work. there are far too many people who judge others & won't believe or wouldn't care less if a person was sick or not.


"You are not poor when you have no money. You are poor when you have nothing to offer – except for the elderly and the sick, to whom we should all be offering."

[heyokah]

Barter is Coming Back

By Al Thomas

Trade what you have for what you want without money.

This is nothing new. It was what we did long before there was money.

An auto mechanic may trade his service to fix a doctor’s car for the doctor’s medical services. You might trade a canoe for a kayak. These are like or similar items. The restaurateur may trade his meals for computer repair. These are dissimilar items.

You might remember during the 1980’s many barter companies came into being. Some were very legitimate and others were trouble for those who participated with them. These type of companies spring up during times of monetary crisis. As cost of merchandise (gasoline and food) inflate or deflate people lose faith in their fiat currency and begin to trade directly with one another with whatever they have of value.

Of course, the IRS will claim there is a transaction here and want to impose a tax. There are a huge string of regulations outlining types of transactions with forms to be filled out as well as end of the year statements. It is up to the individual to remain within the law.

A hundred year ago barter was an accepted and common method of payment. Today it is payment as money in its form of paper dollars, checks and electronic transfers have taken its place.

The Internet is fast becoming an international barter exchange. Places such as Craigslist have a barter section with postings such as ,”I will write your resume”, “Mets tickets to trade (with dates)”, “Harley 75 for car see pic” and thousands more.

There are offers and counter offers until an agreement is reached. There are sometimes multi-party trades with three or more involved. These usually take time until all parties are happy with what they are offering and receiving.

Worldwide today all countries are printing their own currency. It is losing its purchasing power. The more unstable currencies become the more bartering will occur.

In the US there are about 8 million unemployed in 2011. Many are bartering their goods and services. The market value of goods exchanged should be included in your income for the tax year. It won’t be long before the IRS starts to come after those who forget to pay their barter tax. They have a form 1099-B.

More barter exchanges will be created as an economy gets tighter. Be very careful of any that promise you will get rich doing bartering through them.

Anything that sounds like tax evasion can put an unwary or greedy person in jail.

Bartering is not just for those with financial problems. It can be used wisely by both individuals and businesses.

----

[NeverMind]

Unfortunately barter is totally unstainable for large populations, sure locally its fine and could help a few, and
bartering has never gone away a lot of people do favours for each other either for future help or for payment
in kind etc..In these current times in some countries short term, some sort of barter is fine....

But what happens when you are ill do you barter with a Doctor how do you pay a nurse....
Do you give me a egg to deliver your mail so i collect door to door ...Who collects the trash
how do you buy a car a house...Fine if you already have one. What about all the other material
things fine if everyone is prepared to be equal, all the land is reditributed so all the people in
the city highrise flats can have a plot of land , but how do they get there.....



Exactly.
Or books. How would you borrow them from a library?
Or CDs. Who would be making them, and how would they be paid?
Or perfume. Or nice clothes. Or... you name it - all those things, "luxury goods", that are not essential to survival, but makelife infinitely pleasant.
And who would want mere survival anyway?

The only way this could work would be by introducing a system of vouchers issued by "work banks" corresponding to the value of the work/service provided, so that people could buy whatever item or service they needed (and someone would have to be making those things, naturally- and be paid for it).

But we already have such a system. It's called money.

Money is not "evil". In fact, it is the best system, perhaps the only system possible, to provide for the needs of an individualistic society.
The problem is that it is wrongly and unjustly distributed.
The remedy is not abolishing money but rather a thorough reconstruction of the education system, of validation of knowledge, and of the corresponding employment system.

This is perfectly doable, it is doable NOW, and it entails no chaos or reinventing the wheel.

[Cidersomerset]

I agree there is a place for bartering but I live in a medium market town of approx 40,000 people and there is
not enough goods or professions to make it viable . How about school ,holidays who could afford to fly
this could only work if we are prepared to go back several hundred years when most of us would be dead
by now and we would be surfs or peasants again within a generation and the powerfull would band together
and the monarchy or warlords would soon fill the void,,,,

The problems with currancies is they are not backed, deliberately so that the rich elites can create and collapse economies
at a whim so they keep us under control. There are far to many people on the planet to make bartering work,,
The example about the Doctor and the Mechanic is silly , We probably have a hundred doctors in our town and similar
number of mechanics. 80% of the town do not have skills to barter, apart from their labour some sort of money
or credit or voucher system would be essential. Factory and distibution workers and other workers have nothing
to barter. Unless we all go back to the land and become surfs....It cannot happen until society completely changes
which is not likely unless there is a major paradyme change, which I cannot see ...

[NeverMind]

Cidersomerset, I think the main problem is the actual unwillingness of so many people who dream about a "moneyless society" to even discuss the technicalities. There was a thread that made this patently clear ("Let's make everything free" - the first one, not the second one), but it does seem to be a very widespread attitude among the proponents of an alternative exchange system.

Everything is possible if people put their mind to it. But simply having vague dreams isn't going to change a thing.
Human nature has to be taken into account; that's a given. And of course, education (which should be on-going, i.e. life-long) and employment models have to be radically changed, so that nobody's talents are wasted. THAT in itself is one of the worst tragedies imaginable, in my opinion, and solving it would solve a myriad other problems. But more on that some other time.

Strictly on topic, of course bartering has a place, as this case demonstrates. Well done to them!
But as a general system I don't see how it could work.
Apparently nobody else does either. :-)

[markpierre]

Cidersomerset, There was a thread that made this patently clear ("Let's make everything free" - the first one, not the second one), but it does seem to be a very widespread attitude among the proponents of an alternative exchange system.
.

Those same people want personal transformation to be all love and light as we all turn into fairies too.

We actually have a system like that here locally. It's run like a club that you get a membership to. Just a silly little token fee to run it.

I still regard the time that I spend that isn't spent for me, or that is my 'time for sale' to have a numerical value. It's a weird idea in itself, but it's weirder to valuate it any other way.
I don't know if I joined that club if I'd use it at all until I had to.

It works really well for the people who use it, but still they regard their 'savings' as a numerical value.
And it's funny how much time I've spent just helping out because of things I could do or because i thought I should. Man the whole way of thinking has to change.

Or else I really got ripped off.

[marique3652]

Here is a link to a very good ongoing discussion about this topic. There were a lot of good points made, just thought I would share for anyone interested.

http://www.sciencechatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=19240&start=30

[Sidney]

It may be overwhelming to think of this in terms of a large population scale. but hey, its a start. A definite step in the right direction.

[Cidersomerset]

Don't get me wrong I'd love to be around , when greed and poverty were a thing of the past and everyone found a place in society for fun & laughter
the arts ,games ,sports work rotas divided as equal as possible between everyone, those with different skills spending more time in those positions...
Some trades/vocations seem to be have more social standing than others, given equal opportunity many of what we think as elite proffessions would
be demistified and open to all and not those with money and social standing.....Still in the UK today Rich kids get places in the 'Best Private' schools
and join the old boys/girls net work and mummy/daddy makes sure the same old blood stock get to run the country....This happens all over the
world even in Russia and china and especially the US, Where virtually every president is related to the British Royals , Hows that possible by
chance !!! Its obviously not as we know !!

Anyway I digress, I cannot see in the present mindset things can change.I don't watch much tele anymore but everymorning after the alarm goes
off I put on the morning news to see what the weather will be like,while I'm getting ready for work....The mainstream is full of the usual scarem and
financial doom stories mixed with celebrity, scandel and the latest lottery winners etc.. All stories that keep us in this selfish dog eat dog world
with a glimpse of escapism that a few of them may join in the lifestyle of the jetset elites....It seems all the TV is good for is to mind
control the masses with the carrot of maybe if you are a good little citizen you may have a chance in many millions of striking gold,so you may
have a chance to live like the 1% and exploit the rest !!

Back to bartering..LOL.....Its time our brothers and sisters in the stars come down and show us possible alternatives !! we may not be ready
in the present cultures we are living in, but inside I feel all humans know how the world is run, is all wrong and its only the 1% inbreds and
warmongers that would disagree and the entities/hybrids who seem to pulling their strings.....

So come on down !! The time is right for cultural/social and enlightening interaction !!!!

[NeverMind]

Don't get me wrong I'd love to be around , when greed and poverty were a thing of the past and everyone found a place in society for fun & laughterAn interesting way of putting it. :)

Greed will be around for as long as people feel deprived.
Nobody is greedy unless they feel deprived - and it's not the lack of material things that gives that feeling of insecurity.
Which is why no amount of riches can make the feeling of deprivation go away.

Happy people are rarely, if ever, greedy.
That is why I said earlier that solving the problem of people's true talents going to waste - through inadequate educational and employment systems - would solve a myriad other problems all by itself.
The fact that it would facilitate a more equitable distribution of riches is only an extra benefit.

Shall we strive to do this? NOW?
Or are we going to waste some more time dreaming up rustic Utopias?

[Cidersomerset]

The enifaces on greed really apllies to a small percentage , the average wage in Britain is £ 25,000 pounds and many live happily on
that or less, the cultural pressure from the media and press and the commercial consumer world is everyone should strive for more
trinkets and clothes made from the corporate sweat shops around the world. The credit card society of the last 30 years was partly
set up to fuel this and make many consumer slaves its like a drug and there were programmes about it years ago about people
spending wrecklessly on clothes shoes dinning out etc...The banks did not worry as a customer who kept their account in credit
and saved for whatever goods they requiered was not a earner for the banks....

30 years ago Brigwater had shirt factories, underwear factories, shoe manufacturing, plastic film production, many engineering firm,
and other industries all gone for cheaper labour overseas. We have food distribution and plastic extruding and few other smaller firms...
This has been echoed all around the country and its been set up to fail only being proped up by the finacial sector and pharmaceuticals
and few other specialist industries....To change the mindset of the government is a massive task just look at todays budget its
all about taking money from A to pay B in a game of musical 'rip off'....

Theres no talk of cold fusion , which is significant here as Hinkley point nuclear power station which is five miles from where i'm typing
is about to have a new nuclear reactor built by the French....I would love to see a change of mindset , but how do we get past the corporate
mainstream press , as Alex Jones was saying earlier on a post and James Martinez said on his show these corporates dispose of
rivals or buy them off and bury the ideas .....James is fully aware of this and this is partly why the cold fusion information he
has been putting out has the backing of powerfull people so he says.....I just hope they are not leading them on and this is the
start of a new era .....