Silly string

[Fredkc]

Ok then...

Now that we have Schrodinger's Cat (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4050-Schroedinger-s-Cat-and-how-reality-really-works&highlight=schrodinger) put to bed,
would anyone like to try explaining String Theory in words of 4 syllables or smaller?

Oh and if you would... a few pointers on where and how it'd be handy to have.

Fred

[CuppaJoe]

would anyone like to try explaining String Theory in words of 4 syllables or smaller?

Oh and if you would... a few pointers on where and how it'd be handy to have.

Fred


What's here is not.


For when it all gets too hot to handle.

[Moemers]

I know a little bit:

The building blocks of matter are atoms, which are made up of protons, electrons and neutrons, which in turn are made of quarks and gluons, gluons being the force that binds the quarks.

Those quarks then are made of one-dimensional vibrating lines or strings.

The problem is, and why it's tough to get String Theory, is that the term String Theory now incorporates every different superstring theory, which is just a way to explain everything with one theory.

Try this and go from there.

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[Agape]

Extend the ruler to infinite on each side. Extend all the rulers to infinte and extend all things that way ( watching the curtains ).

Bind some of those infinite rulers with power of their own attractivity. Create universe of likenesses attracting each other.

All of 1s on all the rulers will create one plane. All 2s will do and 3rds too.

Evenly or unevenly they will create flowing curtains of flower like patterns floating in space.

And so on...


References : my curtains :lol:

[Luke]

Ok. First problem is, there is no 1 string theory. There are many. (five last time I was interested in them)
All stems from one fundamental problem for "material world" physicists.
They think world is made of particles. But what particles are made of? They spend bilions of dollars to answer this question, building machines to smash things up. They smashed atoms and saw smaller particles, smashed those particles and saw even smaller ones. Kind of job that seems to be never accomplished but is very good at generating grants. After all result of first smashes were A-Bombs, so govts are paying, attention and $$$ for more smashes.
So right now we have great many particles that make bigger particles that make atom, and they have all quite stupid names, but they are all material, which is how scientist like their subjects to be. And they have four fundamental forces that describe interactions between them.
But there is one thing that those guys are very unhappy for. It's quantum physics, and it can be called anything but material, with it's dead-cats-that-are-not-so-dead-after-all. Kind of thing that makes sponsors think they are doing some black magic, or other philosophy, and you know, grants for philosophers are not that impressive. Not in comparison to Giant Hadron Smasher. But again, this crazy thing made some predictions, that were happen to work. Like that you cannot see an electron. It register as a cloud that change shapes, not that tiny lil sphere orbiting center in planetary moder seen in schools. And that make scientists not happy.
click here for hydrogen atom plots. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hydrogen_Density_Plots.png)
So, scientist are looking for an excuse to take this puppy to the backyard, and shoot it. And that damn cat too. They want nice, tidy, all encompassing Theory of Everything.
String theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory) is such an excuse. Or attempt to it. Because it's not yet a theory really. Just a developing one.
Story goes, that there is a 1 dimensional string, which vibrates, but not all strings vibrate in same way, thus there are different particles. And string is not string at all, but a slice of vibrating membrane that spans 11 dimensions (again, what string is and in how many dimension changes from one scientist to another, and from time to time). And way this membrane is twisted and turned determines physical forces we measure in our slice. So all you need to have TOE is model that membrane.
So when scientists are not busy smashing things, they build math models that describe such a multi-D material ... thing. Which is perfect excuse to contract large amounts of computing power.
And there is a problem of those multiple dimensions. Problem is we can measure only 4 of them (x,y,z and time). Those expensive math models say you need more. And they need to be physical, other way they not count. Enter Planck.
We use to think that you can zoom on things to infinity. But that is not the case.
There is a size that seems to be a limit of measuring of physical things. It's called the the Planck length and is about 1.616252(81)×10^−35 m long. Bloody small that is.
And all those other dimensions are just curled beyond this limit. Out of reach. Yet. Because with quadrillion dollars you can build a Hyper Zomgon Smasher which will pull energy from 3 suns and then you might just check how those dimensions look like. That is, if the theory is right. A developing theory, mind you, nothing serious. But you want to spent all this money, because we might be right, you know?

Disclaimer: I'm not a scientist. Probably any competent one would shoot all above statements full of holes. But it was fun to write it :P


"Today´s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality" Nicola Tesla

[Agape]

SaiCo :lol: you are right there. But what you need to understand is that most maths theories start from abstracts , then only attempt to incorporate physical phenomena ( energies or particles or whatever you may have ) into them, not vice versa.
If all can fit in, it will be 'leading' and succesful theory, if not, the theory fails or rather and most usually it is transformed to another theory .

The fortune of mathematical theories is that they're based on numbers as abstracts that are organisable as many ways as your logic and imagination allows. In dimensions and spaces and times and between.

If physicist comes and asks : and how do my particles fit to the scheme, one way or another they will as long as they can be counted and measured .

Have you heard of Bubble Theory ? I bet sure not yet but it's the next one on a way...

[Caren]

Hello Moemers,

"quarks and gluons, gluons being the force that binds the quarks"...who knew science had such a sense of humor!...:) I don't pretend to know any thing about "string theory" but there sure are some interesting sounding words here...no offense intended to anyone. Ok all you incredibly smart "string theory" science people - on with the lesson please, I have a lot to learn..and "thank you" Moemers.

[Moemers]

Hahahahaha. I thought it was funny too.

[Arpheus]

They will never get to the energy material,parts or whatever weird name they give to them that makes everything in the universe,they are alwys gonna find something else that makes something else and it will never end.science is so clueless and limited i get a kick out of it.We think we know so much so where are our spaceships that travel at lightspeeds and higher?All scientists do is create new theories out of thin air when they realize the last ones they had didnt quite work or function the way they thought.As long as science and spirit are separated from each other they will NEVER find the truth,and even after that the road maybe infinite just like the universe itself heh.:thumb:

[Moemers]

They will never get to the energy material,parts or whatever weird name they give to them that makes everything in the universe,they are alwys gonna find something else that makes something else and it will never end.science is so clueless and limited i get a kick out of it.We think we know so much so where are our spaceships that travel at lightspeeds and higher?All scientists do is create new theories out of thin air when they realize the last ones they had didnt quite work or function the way they thought.As long as science and spirit are separated from each other they will NEVER find the truth,and even after that the road maybe infinite just like the universe itself heh.:thumb:

So what?

That's what scientists are called to do.

That's like telling a child that understanding speech is pointless because it's arbitrary and eventually he dies anyway so lolomg.

I get what your point is, and I appreciate where you're coming from, but -I think- to tell someone that their studying to grasp this reality is worthless is a serious oversight.

[Arpheus]

My point was the human mind is not capable of even trying to grasp such things.The spirit mind on the other hand thats another story,i appreciate your input tho,i would also like to add another thing that i truly believe in,that as long as we use fossil fuels as the main energy source in our beloved planet,that we stand no chance at understanding the true nature of the cosmos and its mechanics,perhaps once we let go of such archaic,primitive and dangerous source of energy and start using some of the new tech that already exists,then we may have a better chance of start to grasping such mechanics and have a better understanding of it all?Also i don't remember mentioning anywhere that it was worthless?When did i say that?

[Moemers]

While never explicitly stated, your posts make it seem like it's pointless to try.

And who says the human mind isn't capable. I think the human mind is capable of extraordinary things. Beautiful things. Powerful things.

But you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So why not try? Why dismiss it as impossible, which only serves to construct a wall in your mind that you, in fact, will never get over unless you're willing to open yourself.

I agree 100% with the elimination of fossil fuels.

[conk]

All I know is if you pull the string the whole universe unravels! Then we start all over again. It took Granny 13 billion years to knit this universe. Using lessons learned she can likely rebuild in only 8 billion years. Be patient. Just meditate for 8 billion years.

[Fredkc]

"Notice how the string's vibration are affected by the geometry in the "extra" dimensons."
Ya know... I was doing fine until then.

As a theory, and it really is just that, it does look interesting; but...
once you make up conditions you can't prove to support effects you can't quite observe...

seems a bit like finding a petrified dinosaur track with a human footprint in it and proclaiming this to be proof of a particular creation theory.

[Luke]

"Notice how the string's vibration are affected by the geometry in the "extra" dimensons."
Ya know... I was doing fine until then.

As a theory, and it really is just that, it does look interesting; but...
once you make up conditions you can't prove to support effects you can't quite observe...

seems a bit like finding a petrified dinosaur track with a human footprint in it and proclaiming this to be proof of a particular creation theory.

Such are those theories. My problem with those stringies is that all they say "we do not know and amount of energy to prove basic premise is one we cannot imagine now". Meaning: You cannot engineer it in foreseeable future. Meaning: it's junk and waste of time and money.
Nature does not work like that.
We need solutions not another piece of bloody dogma.
Quantum, crazy as it is, gave us quantum computers. Completely new logic.
Way I see it, possibility that science taken wrong turn with with >>IDEA<< of particle is quite high, and because of that, last 70 years are basically wasted on futile constructs created to support status quo, not science.
Heres series of articles that to my unelightened mind make quite good argument: "The Particle - The wrong turn that led physics to a dead end (http://www.blazelabs.com/f-p-intro.asp)"