Ultimate reality

[Beren]

What is Ultimate reality?
I wasn`t thinking much about it through my current life but here and there a thought would arise about it.
Oddly without any emotion attached. It was like self evident truth or thing that you don`t need to comment.

Now I`m interested in this because we as humans cannot change ultimate reality for that would mean an effort to change the Universe-Dimension fields-quantum physics-Creator-God....

My opinion is that God is.
God is everything and there is nothing that isn`t God.
Above religions and spirituality as it exist on Earth or elsewhere.

Here I`m thinking outside of the box completely and not talking about spiritual approach of us humans.
I`m inclined to think that this big change in Universe on all levels will happen because humans try to change Ultimate reality by force.
By various means of ET tech or tapping into unlimited energy through various hidden knowledge sciences.

My final questions here is : could this be true?
Are we trying to attack God with this effort?
Are we (some of us) trying to make war on First Source AKA God AKA Creator?

[DeDukshyn]

We (and all beings in this and the next higher plane) are currently collectively primarily driven by Ego (aka Satan - which steps down into our individual minds)). Ego's intent is to destroy God (cause the separation of God). Whoever, and however, and what they believe their motivation is is irrelevant. However this is not possible, but it sure is an exciting play!

Disclaimer: I speak in metaphors. I see Satan as the personified force of separation - not a religious aspect.

[Beren]

We (and all beings in this and the next higher plane) are currently collectively primarily driven by Ego (aka Satan - which steps down into our individual minds)). Ego's intent is to destroy God (cause the separation of God). Whoever, and however, and what they believe their motivation is is irrelevant. However this is not possible, but it sure is an exciting play!

Disclaimer: I speak in metaphors. I see Satan as the personified force of separation - not a religious aspect.

I agree fully.
But it`s interesting to see or perceive that this big change or rebirth of existence is quickening .
Low conscience among humans equipped with certain ET tech and sciences and various negative influences are making all this a heck of a spectacle to watch.

[DeDukshyn]

We (and all beings in this and the next higher plane) are currently collectively primarily driven by Ego (aka Satan - which steps down into our individual minds)). Ego's intent is to destroy God (cause the separation of God). Whoever, and however, and what they believe their motivation is is irrelevant. However this is not possible, but it sure is an exciting play!

Disclaimer: I speak in metaphors. I see Satan as the personified force of separation - not a religious aspect.

I agree fully.
But it`s interesting to see or perceive that this big change or rebirth of existence is quickening .
Low conscience among humans equipped with certain ET tech and sciences and various negative influences are making all this a heck of a spectacle to watch.

It sure is a spectacle to view it from all levels, how do you think the Creator stays entertained? ;) ;) ;)

[Sebastion]

I have been pondering this exact idea for some time now, Beren. To me this is dead serious business! I have been wondering to myself what, if anything, the "ONE", "God" "CREATOR" is going to do about it on a larger scale. There is little doubt that IT knows. What may happen as a result? Haven't got the first clue but I reckon we will all find out!





What is Ultimate reality?
I wasn`t thinking much about it through my current life but here and there a thought would arise about it.
Oddly without any emotion attached. It was like self evident truth or thing that you don`t need to comment.

Now I`m interested in this because we as humans cannot change ultimate reality for that would mean an effort to change the Universe-Dimension fields-quantum physics-Creator-God....

My opinion is that God is.
God is everything and there is nothing that isn`t God.
Above religions and spirituality as it exist on Earth or elsewhere.

Here I`m thinking outside of the box completely and not talking about spiritual approach of us humans.
I`m inclined to think that this big change in Universe on all levels will happen because humans try to change Ultimate reality by force.
By various means of ET tech or tapping into unlimited energy through various hidden knowledge sciences.

My final questions here is : could this be true?
Are we trying to attack God with this effort?
Are we (some of us) trying to make war on First Source AKA God AKA Creator?

[dan i el]

It sure is a spectacle to view it from all levels, how do you think the Creator stays entertained? ;) ;) ;)

Sounds like Zeus

[DeDukshyn]

Give ya a hint ... The Creator has already put us in place. The question is ... Are we ready?? ;););)

Disclaimer: Said from the perspective of fulfilling the sense of adventure. ;)


I have been pondering this exact idea for some time now, Beren. To me this is dead serious business! I have been wondering to myself what, if anything, the "ONE", "God" "CREATOR" is going to do about it on a larger scale. There is little doubt that IT knows. What may happen as a result? Haven't got the first clue but I reckon we will all find out!




What is Ultimate reality?
I wasn`t thinking much about it through my current life but here and there a thought would arise about it.
Oddly without any emotion attached. It was like self evident truth or thing that you don`t need to comment.

Now I`m interested in this because we as humans cannot change ultimate reality for that would mean an effort to change the Universe-Dimension fields-quantum physics-Creator-God....

My opinion is that God is.
God is everything and there is nothing that isn`t God.
Above religions and spirituality as it exist on Earth or elsewhere.

Here I`m thinking outside of the box completely and not talking about spiritual approach of us humans.
I`m inclined to think that this big change in Universe on all levels will happen because humans try to change Ultimate reality by force.
By various means of ET tech or tapping into unlimited energy through various hidden knowledge sciences.

My final questions here is : could this be true?
Are we trying to attack God with this effort?
Are we (some of us) trying to make war on First Source AKA God AKA Creator?

[Cilka]

Beren, if we are attacking God then we must be attacking ourselves, as we are the God. I dont really think that we are attacking this existence, the God, by trying to make it fit into that form which suits us, and not the creation. Now, I am sounding like am attacking my words with the same idea. It's kind of silly to talk about God as a separate entity, because God is ALL there is and ever will be....

I look at this way. Everything is the way it supposes to be, no matter how bloody ugly/stupid/imbecilic it all may seem. Even though our current reality on this 3D planet may seem truly sometimes incredibly unbearable, this existence will constantly aim for the balance on which it is based on. There cannot be more good or more of the bad, more positive or more negative than positive in the universe, there always has to be balance. For whatever reason we are slightly off balance and that is why this reality seems chaotic right now. Once we attain the balance our existence should get less chaotic. Hopefully, that will be the case.

[Beren]

Beren, if we are attacking God then we must be attacking ourselves, as we are the God. I dont really think that we are attacking this existence, the God, by trying to make it fit into that form which suits us, and not the creation. Now, I am sounding like am attacking my words with the same idea. It's kind of silly to talk about God as a separate entity, because God is ALL there is and ever will be....

I look at this way. Everything is the way it supposes to be, no matter how bloody ugly/stupid/imbecilic it all may seem. Even though our current reality on this 3D planet may seem truly sometimes incredibly unbearable, this existence will constantly aim for the balance on which it is based on. There cannot be more good or more of the bad, more positive or more negative than positive in the universe, there always has to be balance. For whatever reason we are slightly off balance and that is why this reality seems chaotic right now. Once we attain the balance our existence should get less chaotic. Hopefully, that will be the case.

This is what I was thinking about-when we look from higher perspective.
But those that aren`t are effectively trying to make a living hell for all on the planet and since all has its own ripples throughout time and space ,all across the universe feel it.

It`s like an humongous ocean wave is trying to destroy the ocean itself.
When you look it from a shore it looks as it will succeed but in reality when the wave is at the pinnacle of power it will be dragged down into the very ocean it tried to destroy...

And then when the storm calm down ,all you see is this perfect ocean...no trace of the threatening wave...

It takes higher perspective to understand this, meanwhile ones who tend to think that they rule this world keep playing their silly games of power and imagining that they are the crushing wave.

[RedeZra]

Are we trying to attack God with this effort?


perhaps God is attacking us


it seems God has made our sun revolve around a twin star

and every so often planets come close and some collide


then we have the aliens with fancy hi tech

makin hybrids with humans

as they did before



God has set the stage from the beginning to the end

and we play our part

knowin nothin but imagining everythin


truth is twisted and wisdom is warped

and everyone and his horse is God


we got a reality check comin

and it is a slap in the face

[Beren]

Are we trying to attack God with this effort?


perhaps God is attacking us


it seems God has made our sun revolve around a twin star

and every so often planets come close and some collide


then we have the aliens with fancy hi tech

makin hybrids with humans

as they did before



God has set the stage from the beginning to the end

and we play our part

knowin nothin but imagining everythin


truth is twisted and wisdom is warped

and everyone and his horse is God


we got a reality check comin

and it is a slap in the face


You know funny thing is that you are right to the word.
Everyone thinks they are God and funny thing is that they really are!
But they do not act as Gods hence all the mayhem on Earth.

Even this imagining that we can make war against God, when one simple act of pulling the life energy plug on by God us would makes us dead- is silly .

[Beren]

It sure is a spectacle to view it from all levels, how do you think the Creator stays entertained? ;) ;) ;)

Sounds like Zeus

At least the Hollywood version of the same...

[Oouthere]

Are we trying to attack God with this effort?




You know funny thing is that you are right to the word.
Everyone thinks they are God and funny thing is that they really are!
But they do not act as Gods hence all the mayhem on Earth.
Even this imagining that we can make war against God, when one simple act of pulling the life energy plug on by God us would makes us dead- is silly .


Having experienced samadhi on two occassions, I may have some input. When you are in the god state you only experience and can really do nothing with the experience other than be all that is (i.e. all matter, all life, all dimensions, etc). I believe the quote in red is a contradiction of truth. God is everything....the saint, the preacher, the rapist......everything. So to say we are not acting like God is like saying the ocean waves are not being waves correctly because some roll in the depths while others crash on the shore.

Rich

[Eram]

Hi Beren,

I'm not sure, but to me it seems that you are talking about a phenomenon called: 'the luciferian rebellion'.
It's been done for ever and will and not only humans have done so. http://www.revelatorium.com/Starrgram26.htm
To my understanding you might say indeed that it is an attack on God, ore more specific: God's way.


We (and all beings in this and the next higher plane) are currently collectively primarily driven by Ego (aka Satan - which steps down into our individual minds)). Ego's intent is to destroy God (cause the separation of God). Whoever, and however, and what they believe their motivation is is irrelevant. However this is not possible, but it sure is an exciting play!

Disclaimer: I speak in metaphors. I see Satan as the personified force of separation - not a religious aspect.

I've seen some video's from BASHAR on youtube where he speaks about the ego not so much being our enemy but more so being our friend, because it gives us a vehicle to experience live as we do it. Without ego we would only experience light and love and all levels of existence would disappear instantly. Ego on our planet has grown way out of proportion yes, but in the source ego is not a bad thing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JwgJaLVaL8

[markpierre]

All war is self hatred. That's the place to look for peace.

[DeDukshyn]

Hi Beren,

I'm not sure, but to me it seems that you are talking about a phenomenon called: 'the luciferian rebellion'.
It's been done for ever and will and not only humans have done so. http://www.revelatorium.com/Starrgram26.htm
To my understanding you might say indeed that it is an attack on God, ore more specific: God's way.


We (and all beings in this and the next higher plane) are currently collectively primarily driven by Ego (aka Satan - which steps down into our individual minds)). Ego's intent is to destroy God (cause the separation of God). Whoever, and however, and what they believe their motivation is is irrelevant. However this is not possible, but it sure is an exciting play!

Disclaimer: I speak in metaphors. I see Satan as the personified force of separation - not a religious aspect.

I've seen some video's from BASHAR on youtube where he speaks about the ego not so much being our enemy but more so being our friend, because it gives us a vehicle to experience live as we do it. Without ego we would only experience light and love and all levels of existence would disappear instantly. Ego on our planet has grown way out of proportion yes, but in the source ego is not a bad thing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JwgJaLVaL8

In a pure mind the individual ego (the surface mind) is a tool of physical purpose. It will help protect our bodies from danger, tell us when we are hungry, etc. There is a collective Ego, AKA Satan - which I mentioned above is the personified force of separation. Without this force, creation cannot exist. In the human mind, somewhere along the way (looong ago in a history not told) the polarity of the collective human minds shifted where the ego became the dominant decision maker and the true mind that the Creator created, became the backseat passenger. (This was accompanied by a magnetic pole shift on Earth .. hint hint, hint ;)). In this format the ego is incredibly destructive - even it's best of intentions have an extremely limited view compared to the mind the Creator created for you, as it can only interpret fear and logic - not love or faith.

So, I'm not sure what Bashar says on the topic (haven't checked the vids, but I may - Bashar resonates with me well) but currently the ego is a destructive force in the minds of men, but in its right place it is a tool of the higher mind intended for physical play and enjoyment on the physical planes. Once humanity has corrected this shift (hmmm the magnetic poles are beginning to shift again with some rapidity .. no?), then the ego will go back to being the tool (or as Bashar put it, "friend") as it was intended. Also keep in mind that the collective Ego (aka Satan) has it's forces here (illuminati) which seek to continuously feed our egos fear and prevent the shift back - this is what the illuminati was created for. However when we learn to cease the experience of fear, our individual egos and thus the collective Ego can have no influence over us. "Lucifer has left the building" -- the shift is underway!! Remain fearless! My 2 cents ;)

Note: There is a distinction between Satan and Lucifer, and the collective Ego and the force of separation, and some semantic issues in describing this but I lumped everything together for simplicity's sake - I hope it didn't cause more questions - if so ask, I'll attempt to explain from my knowledge.

[DeDukshyn]

Are we trying to attack God with this effort?




You know funny thing is that you are right to the word.
Everyone thinks they are God and funny thing is that they really are!
But they do not act as Gods hence all the mayhem on Earth.
Even this imagining that we can make war against God, when one simple act of pulling the life energy plug on by God us would makes us dead- is silly .


Having experienced samadhi on two occassions, I may have some input. When you are in the god state you only experience and can really do nothing with the experience other than be all that is (i.e. all matter, all life, all dimensions, etc). I believe the quote in red is a contradiction of truth. God is everything....the saint, the preacher, the rapist......everything. So to say we are not acting like God is like saying the ocean waves are not being waves correctly because some roll in the depths while others crash on the shore.

Rich

I believe the distinction here is "act as", we are living out an illusion, the reality is, we are an extension of the Creator.

[Oouthere]

DeDukshyn,

I'll take that one step further and say that when you are submerged within the universal consciousness (God), that you are the creator. I'll have to agree with the Hindu's on this aspect.....God created everything so it could experience itself.

Rich

[Beren]

Are we trying to attack God with this effort?




You know funny thing is that you are right to the word.
Everyone thinks they are God and funny thing is that they really are!
But they do not act as Gods hence all the mayhem on Earth.
Even this imagining that we can make war against God, when one simple act of pulling the life energy plug on by God us would makes us dead- is silly .


Having experienced samadhi on two occassions, I may have some input. When you are in the god state you only experience and can really do nothing with the experience other than be all that is (i.e. all matter, all life, all dimensions, etc). I believe the quote in red is a contradiction of truth. God is everything....the saint, the preacher, the rapist......everything. So to say we are not acting like God is like saying the ocean waves are not being waves correctly because some roll in the depths while others crash on the shore.

Rich


I agree with you ,though here I meant that when you do not act as God means that you as and individual soul act from unconscious mind or state ,not full awareness.

[Beren]

All war is self hatred. That's the place to look for peace.

True. Look into self first. Some souls obviously do not look into themselves hence imagining that they can "take out" God.
It`s beyond futile to try this but God in his Love is allowing this experience.

Earth changes and life on it all caused by us.

[Beren]

Hi Beren,

I'm not sure, but to me it seems that you are talking about a phenomenon called: 'the luciferian rebellion'.
It's been done for ever and will and not only humans have done so. http://www.revelatorium.com/Starrgram26.htm
To my understanding you might say indeed that it is an attack on God, ore more specific: God's way.


We (and all beings in this and the next higher plane) are currently collectively primarily driven by Ego (aka Satan - which steps down into our individual minds)). Ego's intent is to destroy God (cause the separation of God). Whoever, and however, and what they believe their motivation is is irrelevant. However this is not possible, but it sure is an exciting play!

Disclaimer: I speak in metaphors. I see Satan as the personified force of separation - not a religious aspect.

I've seen some video's from BASHAR on youtube where he speaks about the ego not so much being our enemy but more so being our friend, because it gives us a vehicle to experience live as we do it. Without ego we would only experience light and love and all levels of existence would disappear instantly. Ego on our planet has grown way out of proportion yes, but in the source ego is not a bad thing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JwgJaLVaL8


Yes you can call this Luciferian rebellion .
Terms such as Satan or Devil or Lucifer or Dark enemy or whatever are terms than humans gave to this force that exist in universe.
Force which goes against harmony in creation and thus God itself as Creator.

Trouble is that this force is blind to the fact that in Ultimate reality it is NOT separated from God.
It imagines that it is.

But also this force is persuading other souls across the Universe by fear and intimidation that they should believe it,thus stepping into lower awareness of fear.
You cannot destroy souls but you can alter their perception so that they think they are damaged or enslaved or whatever so they act as they are.

This force is acting like that.
But God didn`t left us all without a way back home in full consciousness .

[Deega]

Thanks Beren to bring this challenge forward, I googled the Web, came up to the Web site «Many path to one goal», where an article was published on «The Ultimate Reality in World Religions». Here is the introduction and the conclusion, I wonder if it helps in the discussion..?

Introduction:
«Each world religion acknowledges an Ultimate Reality that is eternal and unchanging. There are three fundamental ways in which it is defined: as a personal being (a personal and loving God), as an impersonal being (as origin and target of all personal beings) or as an eternal truth or principle that governs the universe. If the world religions are only parts of a global and unique spirituality, these three perspectives should be consistent with each other. Could they be mere manifestations of the same Ultimate Reality?»

Conclusion:
«The world's religions hold very different views on Ultimate Reality. More than merely different, they are irreconcilable one with another. Indeed, the impersonal Brahman of the Upanishads, who balances between his manifested state and unmanifestation, or the lack of any transcendental being, as stated by Theravada Buddhism, are positions that cannot be reconciled with the personal God of the monotheistic religions. In fact, we can witness irreconcilable positions even among the many branches of Hinduism (remember the gods of the Vedas, the Brahman of Vedanta, Vishnu of the theistic movements founded by Ramanuja and Madhva, and Ishvara of the Yoga darshana). On the other hand, even the three great monotheistic religions of the world state irreconcilable positions concerning the nature of the personal God. He must be either tri-personal (the triune God of Christianity), or mono-personal (as in Judaism and Islam).»

Link: http://www.comparativereligion.com/god.html

All the best to you.

Deega

[DeDukshyn]

DeDukshyn,

I'll take that one step further and say that when you are submerged within the universal consciousness (God), that you are the creator. I'll have to agree with the Hindu's on this aspect.....God created everything so it could experience itself.

Rich

Elaboration fully endorsed! Our Gift from the Creator is focus of Attention and thus (due to the mechanics of manifestation), the ability to Create our will (when used properly and the conditions are right) The surface mind is mostly static and can't create hence this repetitive rut we've been in for ~30,000 years. However only the best leading edge adventurer was chosen for this role (stance supported by Abraham/Hicks), and that Being is the hidden spark in all of us - it is who we are between human and Creator. We'll awaken it soon as it has been slumbering in the backseat since the last shift. It knew It would be slumbering and asked many beings to come help awaken Him when the time came -- many of those (angels, benevolent aliens incarnating, whatever descriptors work best for you) are here now - more always coming. I'm likely getting a bit weird for some people now ... think of it in metaphors perhaps ;)


God created everything so it could experience itself
100% agreed - even allowing the separation was the Creators plan - all of it is His plan ;)

[Cilka]

I think that we, as Gods, have chosen to live out a boring existence in this 3D reality, with too many limitations, and probably for a good reason. I mean, there is no doubt in my mind, that we all are the creators of this reality, I just think that this reality could have been more interesting and fun. 3D reality = chaos, pain in the as s, too many limitations, boredom, repetitiveness, stupidity, unnecessary death etc. Compared to the 4D reality, this one sure is a bit boring. We could have done a better job at creating this 3D life, but I think our DNA has a lot to do with this bad job that we did.

Oh well, sooner or later, we all will go to a different Dimension.

[Eram]

Thanks for your explanation DeDukshyn. Now it all makes sense.
One thing I'd like to clarify: Bashar says that we have to negotiate with the ego and let it know that it's appreciated for what it's designed to do, rather then try to push the ego away and condemn it (which we learned for so long through baghwan and Buddhism etc).



Hi Beren,

I'm not sure, but to me it seems that you are talking about a phenomenon called: 'the luciferian rebellion'.
It's been done for ever and will and not only humans have done so. http://www.revelatorium.com/Starrgram26.htm
To my understanding you might say indeed that it is an attack on God, ore more specific: God's way.


We (and all beings in this and the next higher plane) are currently collectively primarily driven by Ego (aka Satan - which steps down into our individual minds)). Ego's intent is to destroy God (cause the separation of God). Whoever, and however, and what they believe their motivation is is irrelevant. However this is not possible, but it sure is an exciting play!

Disclaimer: I speak in metaphors. I see Satan as the personified force of separation - not a religious aspect.

I've seen some video's from BASHAR on youtube where he speaks about the ego not so much being our enemy but more so being our friend, because it gives us a vehicle to experience live as we do it. Without ego we would only experience light and love and all levels of existence would disappear instantly. Ego on our planet has grown way out of proportion yes, but in the source ego is not a bad thing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhndXL1t4A)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JwgJaLVaL8


Yes you can call this Luciferian rebellion .
Terms such as Satan or Devil or Lucifer or Dark enemy or whatever are terms than humans gave to this force that exist in universe.
Force which goes against harmony in creation and thus God itself as Creator.

Trouble is that this force is blind to the fact that in Ultimate reality it is NOT separated from God.
It imagines that it is.

But also this force is persuading other souls across the Universe by fear and intimidation that they should believe it,thus stepping into lower awareness of fear.
You cannot destroy souls but you can alter their perception so that they think they are damaged or enslaved or whatever so they act as they are.

This force is acting like that.
But God didn`t left us all without a way back home in full consciousness .

So maybe this Luciferian rebellion is some kind of super auto immune disease ? ;)

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

These are all thoughtful observations and I respect that members on Avalon strive to express truth in all its form. To even have the luxury of this conversation is, to me, evidence of a higher reality manifesting.... For myself, I am incredibly grateful for this lifetime. Having had spontaneous past life recall since I was 12, I experience my current reality as nearly paradise. I have more than adequate food, warm, secure shelter, and most of all, I am free from the threat of physical violence and I go about my day to day activities. This has not always been the case. I have recalled past lives lived in fear, pain, degradation, and want. There is little energy left to ponder philosophical questions when living in those conditions. People on this forum often post about how awful our current reality is, but for those of us with money for a computer and the leisure to use it, I must disagree. These are amazing times and I am using the opportunity to delve into some of the deeper spiritual questions.
"Once you truly understand karma, the world is .....perfect!" !! Dharma Mittra

Thank you all :)