You don't belong here

[peace]

I’ve tried and tried to be a rational voice.

Several times I’ve been slammed here in a pseudo poetic, wrapped in light and love, but still out right mean ways; and I’ve just accept it.

Really, I’ve had some mean crap said to me, while just voicing opinion, or criticism of David Wilcock, Alex Collier etc. or a thread topic and the responses I’ve received have been backed with anger, ill-intent and in a spirit of hostility, with a kind of “you don’t belong here,” vibe backing the statements.

I’ve been called part of the 1% because of my job, and compared to the horrible people that abuse power.

I’ve been banned for a short period because I BELIEVE, you are being scammed by those listed above and those like them, either financially or in a mental capacity (which I think is WAY worse) and I will continue to. I'm not just saying these two.

I think some of these bold claims, require bold evidence and when I said so, and when I was critical of someone I think is doing no good, I was banned for three days and branded childish.

And still the thought is, if you don’t think like the rest of us; hit the bricks. The team here didn’t write that, it’s my belief that the community doesn’t like a person like me.

The best way I can put this is: These guys, like Collier, Wilcock, etc. are just like the PTB, and are using FEAR to trick you into their particular brand of research – they want your butts in seats at conferences and your money to support their ‘research.’ They lie to you and don’t trust each other, openly admitting they record each other in secret. They aren’t trying to help anyone but themselves. They are tricking you and they can’t be trusted. So don’t.

“Be afraid,” Wilcock says, then writes, “hey, don’t worry about it, the aliens I can’t prove exist are going to make it all o.k., sorry I wasted all your time and energy on this thing I used to SCARE YOU. Wait, no I’m not, I’ll do this again soon!”

Really try to make that comparison between the methods these guys use and the PTB.

Call me a 1%, Call me a person spreading disinfo and watch as, people that haven’t read this entire post, go on to say that is my goal.

I care about this community. But the fact is, it seems, that a majority of folks would rather believe in sci-fi fantasy then what is outside there window. Not all, but a majority.

And they want nothing to do with someone who is trying to help them see that.

[PixieDust]

The thing is sweets, humans try to understand the unknown in anyway that makes sense to them. If believing someone else's words makes them feel safe (even if its fear based) thats their safety net and right.

You can't help everyone. I learned this at a young age. Unfortunately it blocked most my "gifts" cause it was too painful to sit by and watch and feel and know but not do anything.

If other people want to follow their work and words thats their right of free will. Just like its your right of free will to think otherwise.

Im sorry you feel like an outcast but youre not. Others just may not as vocal. Not to mention the nonmembers.

Choose your battles sweets you can't save/change everyone.

[Eagle]

Understand, my friend that regardless how ever meny times to try and help someone, it is up to them to accept that help for what it is. if they are not ready to receive it or dont believe it is still thier choice. The messenger is not at all well received until the flood waters are at the door :)

[red_rose]

Everything and everyone, at their own pace.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. I'm sure lots of people feel the same way you do.

with love

red_rose

[RMorgan]

Dear peace,

You do belong here. In fact, sane and coherent persons like you are needed anywhere these days.

Do you know, when in politics, they create two or more parties, to give people the illusion of choice and democracy, but in reality, all parties are just different faces of the same monster?

The same thing happens with the media.

Both alternative media and mainstream media brainwash people.

The first, brainwashes people to think everything is paranormal, every light is a UFO, everything is love and light, everything is a conspiracy, and to go against anyone that contradicts such ideals.

The second brainwashes people to think there is no paranormal, there a are no UFOs, there are no conspiracies, and to go against anyone that contradicts such ideals as well.

This divide and conquer strategy is very very old, but it´s also very effective. The government use it all the time, in several fields.

So, both alternative media and mainstream media, can be considered two faces of the same coin.

We´re living a war, a different kind of war, a war for control, an information war; and most of us are right in the middle of an information crossfire.

As I´ve told on another thread, like in any kind of war, get out of the crossfire, move to higher ground, get to cover. Only when you do that, you´re in condition to analyze things by a clear, balanced and unbiased point of view.

Like in everything else in life, balance is the key. Don´t be too suspicious, but don´t be too naive either (but I guess you already know that).

So, my advice here, is to let it be. You´re in the right path. Don´t be bothered when people get impolite with you. We both know that radical persons get pretty mad when cornered, specially when they get in contact with an idea that contradicts their beliefs but actually makes much more sense.

Jut keep being yourself, mate.

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

I like you. If you are using your ORIGIN-al thought process I still like even if you disagree with me. If you are reacting to your emotional state instead of ORIGIN-al thought process you would be just another face in the crowd. Using your ORIGIN-al thought process though will put you in the 1 percent of ....something....though. No risk of winning popularity contests anyway, lol.

You aren't obligated to make others feel safe.

When they obligate you to make them feel safe, they are just asking you to manage them and that is how the world was one by the 1 percent you are referring to. Says more about them than it does you.

[dddanieljjjamesss]

These are just words on a screen.

How can you be sure of the emotion / intention behind each and every one?

To two people, the same word can mean different things.


Even though some will be hostile, have compassion for them as they have not yet learned the truth.

[jackovesk]

I here what you are saying peace...

However there's no need to...:frusty:

We've all been there at some stage of our journey here at Avalon, some more than others...:)

Me 'Old Mate' Frank has got some good advice for us all (Don't Forget to Listen to the Lyrics)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avU2aarQUiU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avU2aarQUiU&feature=relmfu

PS - My advice is to continue communicating the 'Truth As You Know It' and if no-one listens or vehemently disagrees, its not your problem...:nono:

In this world, if you can't speak your own 'Truth', the only person your harming is yourself...:yes4:

[Peace of Mind]

You can only inform people of what you feel/think and leave them to their own choices. We are all wired differently so it may take time for some to acknowledge what’s before them. Some people are just too bent on this stuff, they whole heartily want to believe it…and to be honest…I don’t blame them either. As for me, I don’t want to be in that situation where I’m left looking foolish. I can handle looking foolish by sharing insight and alternative perceptions to these claims because it’s all out of good intentions…but I dare not make attempts of such claims without anything of substance to compliment my claims.

At least we know the world is stressed, so some might want to leave it or have something better. Tbh, I view this whole thing as if I’m watching a child make a mess than cries about it instead of cleaning it up.

We want a better reality but I think many of us don’t grasp the fact that we are the only ones making this reality. The future can only form from what we do today. What you see is what you get…nothing more nothing less. One problem is our lack of commitment in supporting our fellow brothers and sisters. When we support, we will have no issues with trust, economies, resources, etc….

We created this monster and we feed it every single day. How is it that some of us expect to move on to bigger and better without cleaning up the mess we all created. I don’t know any parents that will reward their kids after they created waste and a harmful environment… and I’m sure the universe isn’t going to allow it either…especially if we know how energy is exchange and circulated.

Peace

[christian]

In my personal experience, I never gave money to David Wilcock or Alex Collier, I never felt fear because of anything I heard or read from them and I appreciated quite a lot of their insights and information. I don't agree with everything they say and it's hard to validate it all anyways. I'm comfortable with leaving claims and statements in limbo, believing and disbelieving are not the only two choices.

I find this whole infighting is a side-issue, a soap opera in the alternative field. It's a given, that all the people here, who care for humanity, the earth and all the rest of it, do not agree on everything. Who can always be right on everything? I'd rather see us supporting each other where we agree and letting the other things settle by itself, like mud settling in the water if left undisturbed. Sure, it's possible to spend lifetimes on discussing all the little facets of who does what and why and how and then comparing all the different people... I just find it not worth it to spend my energy on that. I rather help the awakening in my way, reminding people of how powerful they are, that they can make a difference in this world, what's at stake and that discernment comes from within, through everyone's innate connection to the divine, to the all-that-is. If I can effectively use a piece of someone else's work to help someone opening his mind, I won't hesitate to do it, but I always give a disclaimer saying "think for yourself".

By my reckoning, David Wilcock woke up more people than he "seduced into a trance of pseudo-feel-good do-nothing" and provided lots of useful information - even for free. And eventually he is not responsible for people going down any road anyways, it's their own choice. I won't trample around on him for being fallible and making mistakes, we all do.

[tonton]

we do have many things in common , and others that we do not.Personally i do give a bit of trust to everyone but at the same time trust no one.I know who i am and where im going(within brackets).There is always some thing to take home but that doesnt mean i have to take it all.The words of one are never the words for all............Be patient.We all belong,even maybe one with miss info,because maybe even one day he will probably have to change sides with what he learns here!

[percival tyro]

Nice one peace. A lot of contributors have already left us. They got free tickets for a trip to another planet, Others went and got ascended last October. Stay amongst us for bit of balance.

[Debra]

Hi there Peace,

Different opinions are healthy because they shake fixed thinking, and until something is irrefutably proven, then we must stay open.

You ask interesting questions, and sometimes you might be the one person who asks the question that nobody has thought about, and that is worth its weight in gold. So never stop questioning what you read here. You are doing fine.

I just invite you to answer back. And I have, as matter of fact. On a thread that I started recently - Sean Stone infiltrates the illuminati - you asked some questions and I wanted you to explain yourself further. I welcome your thoughts. You made the comment that:´we all´ know that beliefs in God or Satan are just predicated on superstitious beliefs. From that you questioned: should we be taking seriously groups of people who engage in satanic rituals? Obviously, I am holding some belief from my own reading that people are indeed being harmed and disempowered as a result of these activities.

I will say it again, I think your statement and question deserve to be better understood and please you are welcome to challenge my thinking further because one of the fundamental reasons that I am on this forum is to learn more and deepen my understanding.

Hope that you feel more empowered Peace.

>zebra

[Maria Stade]

Yes there will be those that will not see what you are saying even if you point straight at it.
Be at peace with your self you cant make anyone that not wish to see ... see what is clear to others.
And yes some do attack in rude and imature ways, the one that is desturbing their idea of how and what is.
Keep you calm and see that they just are not ready to hear what you are saying.
And forgive them for not being able to handle it better than that.

Peace be with you !

And you do belong here :hug:

[jorr lundstrom]

I could tear the food out of the mouth of a starving child. This was said
by Psychiatrist Elisabeth Kubler- Ross in one of her later speech. She was
a woman, who had looked deep into the mirror and seen the through
the mask of evil.
A lot of people refuse to look into their mirrors, instead
they idenfy with everything good and project their shadows on others,
their neighbors, other nationalities and so on. They also have a great
need to have someone to look up to. They are gonna find this upsurge
of energy we are experiencing impossible to handle. We are gonna see
a pandemic mental breakdown. It has already started and is just gonna
increase every day until this bumpy ride flattens out.

Of course neurotic people need heroes to cling to, and if you threaten
their image of their hero, you will be attacked. Peace, its not about you.
Support those who are willing to uncover their selfimposed lies they have
tried to live. Leave the others alone.
I see people on this forum who a
couple of months ago preached that everything is an illusion and today
demands that everyone take action. I suppose everyone have the right
to hit the ditch on both side of the road before they can balance on
the road.


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/merlincat.jpg


All is well


Jorr

[Kelly]

Wonderful words, and very true :) xxx

[Eram]

Hi Peace,

I had to read some posts of you to get to understand what you mean with this post. So I did.

If you feel you are not wanted here because you get a lot of heat from people who have other opinions and believes... Think again. There are thousands of people here on this forum and all have a different perspective of the truth.

Maybe the most important thing is: If you'd like to get less heat from other people here, just change the tone of voice you give us. You're very outspoken on your opinions and what you say is filled with emotions, so it's only natural that there will be people who get triggered and respond. 'Law of attraction'
Respect the believes and opinions of other people, remember that we are all seeking and apply that in the way you post here on the forum.

[Cilka]

Those words YOU DONT BELONG HERE have echoed in my brain for a very long time, that's why I was pulled to this threat, I just needed to see for myself who was sending me the same message I have been hearing in my head.

PEACE, trust me, you do belong HERE. If you dont belong anywhere else, then consider yourself lucky as this place is the nieche you have been waiting for. This forum attracts all kinds of universal freaks, including myself, and the whole beauty about this is that we are all comfortable being here because we can finally be ourselves as freaks.

It's all cool. The reason we were born was not to save everyone else out there, that is the illusion we have been fed all this milenia. The real and true reason why we were born at this time is for us to finally be ourselves no matter how badly we act as freaks. If you can become comfortable in your own skin, then you sure have definitely passed the most difficult lessons in this 3D freakest feaky planet/world we call earth.

[Black Panther]

In my personal experience, I never gave money to David Wilcock or Alex Collier, I never felt fear because of anything I heard or read from them and I appreciated quite a lot of their insights and information. I don't agree with everything they say and it's hard to validate it all anyways. I'm comfortable with leaving claims and statements in limbo, believing and disbelieving are not the only two choices.

I find this whole infighting is a side-issue, a soap opera in the alternative field. It's a given, that all the people here, who care for humanity, the earth and all the rest of it, do not agree on everything. Who can always be right on everything? I'd rather see us supporting each other where we agree and dletting the other things settle by itself, like mud settling in the water if left undisturbed. Sure, it's possible to spend lifetimes on discussing all the little facets of who does what and why and how and then comparing all the different people... I just find it not worth it to spend my energy on that. I rather help the awakening in my way, reminding people of how powerful they are, that they can make a difference in this world, what's at stake and that discernment comes from within, through everyone's innate connection to the divine, to the all-that-is. If I can effectively use a piece of someone else's work to help someone opening his mind, I won't hesitate to do it, but I always give a disclaimer saying "think for yourself".

By my reckoning, David Wilcock woke up more people than he "seduced into a trance of pseudo-feel-good do-nothing" and provided lots of useful information - even for free. And eventually he is not responsible for people going down any road anyways, it's their own choice. I won't trample around on him for being fallible and making mistakes, we all do.

"Who can always be right on everything?" - Christian
"Letting things settle by itself, like mud settling in the water if left undisturbed" - Christian
"I always give a disclaimer saying think for yourself" - Christian
"No one is responsible for people going down any road anyways, it's their own choice" - Christian

[DeDukshyn]

"I think some of these bold claims, require bold evidence "

How many of Wilcock's books have you read? How much of his presented evidence have you scoured through and found to be able to dismiss? If you have done this, why can you dismiss his evidence? Is it due to refuting science? Or maybe it is because it relates to more advanced concepts than you give consideration to or are educated in? -- this also needs to be considered.

If you have this data assembled so as to back up any of your "There is NO evidence" claims, I'd love to see it, perhaps I can explain some things in a ways that would make more sense if you were able to have more of a one on one with?

Are you a truth seeker or a complainer / judger? ;) Talk is cheap, back it up with something real -- at least David Wilckock has done a **** ton of research and put it into writing in the form of books. You don't have to agree with him but if you want to be taken seriously as an opponent of his, read his books for a start, then begin by refuting his specific pieces of evidence, otherwise its just a guy complaining about something he doesn't know about -- that's not useful for anyone.

Good luck!! If you decide to adventure on this, please make a thread of your findings here on Avalon. If you do this I'll give you my full attention. ;)

[Eagle Eye]

Be skeptic about everyone and everything thats what I think. Do you think someone can operate so openly talking about "secrets" everywhere without any harm done to him?

[DeDukshyn]

... believing and disbelieving are not the only two choices.
.....

BINGO!! There are those who believe this, and the many who are still learning to come to grips with this, and a few who would still outright deny it. Process is goal. When there is a final conclusion, this Universe will have concluded, and if we're not careful we'll all miss the grand experience while searching for one , "right" answer" that does not exist, nor ever will. ;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Be skeptic about everyone and everything thats what I think. Do you think someone can operate so openly talking about "secrets" everywhere without any harm done to him?

Exactly!

BELIEVE NOTHING, CONSIDER EVERYTHING. ;)

[xbusymom]

Peace,

Don't leave just because some people throw hissy fits at you... You just have to get a tougher skin... I have felt like leaving that way many times also... When you (we) joined the ranks of the awakened, you put yourself in one of the few positions of “lead-thinker” (vs. lead follower) and most people will fight with anything even closely resembling CHANGE... they are too used to the status quo and it is too comfortable to even consider getting rid of that (what-ever THAT might be)...

but I think this forum was designed to help people think and get information... and B.Ryan lets people have their opinions about everybody and everything... something you don't get on many other forums...

I seem to flip-flop many times over, but that, too, is because I think things thru and do my own homework, and mostly I need a chance to get quiet and listen to my gut instinct... that is just a part of the journey... who are you on this board for... other peoples journey or yours... YOU KAN LEED A HOARCE TO WHATTER !!!......

[Seikou-Kishi]

I agree with your interpretation of the problems around people like David Wilcock. I don't think David Wilcock spreads fear, but I think his 'let's not worry about it; the aliens'll make it all all right' schtick is a bit counter-productive. People actually level the same criticism against David Icke (that he is a peddler of fear) when actually his message is full of infinite love and infinite consciousness.

In his three-part interview with "Drake", Wilcock actually says that anybody disagreeing with him is just ego-stroking and that seriously undermines any credibility he had in my eyes. I think you're right about much of your interpretation of Wilcock but I couldn't agree with you about his fear-spreading (of course, it doesn't really matter whether or not I agree). Often, Wilcock seems to be to be optimistic to the point of childishness which I find hard to reconcile with spreading fear.

I think you're right about the ability to express disagreement here though, but I'm not sure what could be done about it. The problem isn't that people aren't allowed to express their opinions but that in any group there will be a majority opinion which is easier to express than dissenting opinions and that majority opinion might even be resistant to change. I think that's natural even if it could be more helpful. As for your occupation... it's an ad hominem and a straw-man to denigrate your argument by bringing up your occupation; an argument is an argument independent of the person who speaks it. Unfortunately, that's also very often human nature as well, and those who make such an argument (consciously or otherwise) in response to you might be doing so from a point of view of taking a 'holistic' approach to your argument; it is not so unreasonable (or, at least, it is understandable) to ask how other parts of your 'whole person' might influence any particular argument you express.

But Jacko's right, there's no need to bang your head against the wall... chances are your head will complain before the wall does XD

[Anchor]

I’ve tried and tried to be a rational voice.

Several times I’ve been slammed here in a pseudo poetic, wrapped in light and love, but still out right mean ways; and I’ve just accept it.

Really, I’ve had some mean crap said to me, while just voicing opinion, or criticism of David Wilcock, Alex Collier etc. or a thread topic and the responses I’ve received have been backed with anger, ill-intent and in a spirit of hostility, with a kind of “you don’t belong here,” vibe backing the statements.

I’ve been called part of the 1% because of my job, and compared to the horrible people that abuse power.

I’ve been banned for a short period because I BELIEVE, you are being scammed by those listed above and those like them, either financially or in a mental capacity (which I think is WAY worse) and I will continue to. I'm not just saying these two.

I think some of these bold claims, require bold evidence and when I said so, and when I was critical of someone I think is doing no good, I was banned for three days and branded childish.

And still the thought is, if you don’t think like the rest of us; hit the bricks. The team here didn’t write that, it’s my belief that the community doesn’t like a person like me.

The best way I can put this is: These guys, like Collier, Wilcock, etc. are just like the PTB, and are using FEAR to trick you into their particular brand of research – they want your butts in seats at conferences and your money to support their ‘research.’ They lie to you and don’t trust each other, openly admitting they record each other in secret. They aren’t trying to help anyone but themselves. They are tricking you and they can’t be trusted. So don’t.

“Be afraid,” Wilcock says, then writes, “hey, don’t worry about it, the aliens I can’t prove exist are going to make it all o.k., sorry I wasted all your time and energy on this thing I used to SCARE YOU. Wait, no I’m not, I’ll do this again soon!”

Really try to make that comparison between the methods these guys use and the PTB.

Call me a 1%, Call me a person spreading disinfo and watch as, people that haven’t read this entire post, go on to say that is my goal.

I care about this community. But the fact is, it seems, that a majority of folks would rather believe in sci-fi fantasy then what is outside there window. Not all, but a majority.

And they want nothing to do with someone who is trying to help them see that.

That's the spirit

STAND YOUR GROUND!

And loose that silly idea of not belonging anywhere!!!

[peace]

In my personal experience, I never gave money to David Wilcock or Alex Collier, I never felt fear because of anything I heard or read from them and I appreciated quite a lot of their insights and information. I don't agree with everything they say and it's hard to validate it all anyways. I'm comfortable with leaving claims and statements in limbo, believing and disbelieving are not the only two choices.

I find this whole infighting is a side-issue, a soap opera in the alternative field. It's a given, that all the people here, who care for humanity, the earth and all the rest of it, do not agree on everything. Who can always be right on everything? I'd rather see us supporting each other where we agree and letting the other things settle by itself, like mud settling in the water if left undisturbed. Sure, it's possible to spend lifetimes on discussing all the little facets of who does what and why and how and then comparing all the different people... I just find it not worth it to spend my energy on that. I rather help the awakening in my way, reminding people of how powerful they are, that they can make a difference in this world, what's at stake and that discernment comes from within, through everyone's innate connection to the divine, to the all-that-is. If I can effectively use a piece of someone else's work to help someone opening his mind, I won't hesitate to do it, but I always give a disclaimer saying "think for yourself".

By my reckoning, David Wilcock woke up more people than he "seduced into a trance of pseudo-feel-good do-nothing" and provided lots of useful information - even for free. And eventually he is not responsible for people going down any road anyways, it's their own choice. I won't trample around on him for being fallible and making mistakes, we all do.

i don't want to trample, either. i'm #1 at making mistakes, like we all feel about ourselves. and it's pretty clear he aspires to get people aware. i think it's just false (when thinking for myself).

i should give the guy a bit of a break, for sure.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Peace,

Don't leave just because some people throw hissy fits at you... You just have to get a tougher skin... I have felt like leaving that way many times also... When you (we) joined the ranks of the awakened, you put yourself in one of the few positions of “lead-thinker” (vs. lead follower) and most people will fight with anything even closely resembling CHANGE... they are too used to the status quo and it is too comfortable to even consider getting rid of that (what-ever THAT might be)...

but I think this forum was designed to help people think and get information... and B.Ryan lets people have their opinions about everybody and everything... something you don't get on many other forums...

I seem to flip-flop many times over, but that, too, is because I think things thru and do my own homework, and mostly I need a chance to get quiet and listen to my gut instinct... that is just a part of the journey... who are you on this board for... other peoples journey or yours... YOU KAN LEED A HOARCE TO WHATTER !!!......

oh, i'm not going anywhere! i just have to relax i think (sometimes). thanks for the words.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Great point!

[WhiteFeather]

I haven't paid one penny to either entities as you spoke of and all of these entities have opened my mind and eyes wide open to say the least.
Sorry if this Troll Hijacked your thread Peace. I'm sorry, I do Disagree With Your Statement. That's My Opinion. Now its time to watch another repeat of Dolores Cannons Convoluted Universe It's Free to watch On Youtube, yup no charge. Warming up some popcorn as we speak.

[peace]

thread is good, I don't care if other thoughts come up.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And lets please keep in mind the OP. It's become a 'peace hate wilcock' - I just disagree with him and others like him.

[Mike]

In my personal experience, I never gave money to David Wilcock or Alex Collier, I never felt fear because of anything I heard or read from them and I appreciated quite a lot of their insights and information. I don't agree with everything they say and it's hard to validate it all anyways. I'm comfortable with leaving claims and statements in limbo, believing and disbelieving are not the only two choices.

I find this whole infighting is a side-issue, a soap opera in the alternative field. It's a given, that all the people here, who care for humanity, the earth and all the rest of it, do not agree on everything. Who can always be right on everything? I'd rather see us supporting each other where we agree and letting the other things settle by itself, like mud settling in the water if left undisturbed. Sure, it's possible to spend lifetimes on discussing all the little facets of who does what and why and how and then comparing all the different people... I just find it not worth it to spend my energy on that. I rather help the awakening in my way, reminding people of how powerful they are, that they can make a difference in this world, what's at stake and that discernment comes from within, through everyone's innate connection to the divine, to the all-that-is. If I can effectively use a piece of someone else's work to help someone opening his mind, I won't hesitate to do it, but I always give a disclaimer saying "think for yourself".

By my reckoning, David Wilcock woke up more people than he "seduced into a trance of pseudo-feel-good do-nothing" and provided lots of useful information - even for free. And eventually he is not responsible for people going down any road anyways, it's their own choice. I won't trample around on him for being fallible and making mistakes, we all do.



hey, great post Christian.

"believing and disbelieving are not the only 2 choices". man, i really like that quote. if we all make an effort to be aware of this at all times, much of the infighting regarding whistleblowers would cease to exist.

'regard the nuance' is something i've been harping on for a while now. i frequently notice that when a member here favors a certain alt media figure, there is always an element that will respond with knee-jerk emotionalism -- sometimes an anger, even -- in response to what they feel is the promotion of a guru by blind and sycophantic followers. sometimes i force myself to reread the entire thread, wondering how i could have possibly missed this alleged fawning, sycophantic behavior. and 9 times outta 10 i can't find! and i wonder sometimes -- are we all reading the same thread?

i find -- in many instances -- there are many here that are more overemotionally 'against' a certain alt figure than there are overemotionally 'for' , and ironically it's the 'against' faction that's accusing the 'for' faction of being too excited and blinded by emotion, while they themselves are the ones causing a ruckus. i observe that there are some here that are almost always ranting and raving 'against' something -- usually under the guise of 'discernment' or open-mindedness -- that even if there was a gun to my head i couldn't even begin to tell you what they're 'for'! there seems to be a sort of Orwellian belief that negativity is positivity, and positivity is reserved solely for the dumb n blind sheeple that find value in some of the works of a Collier or a Wilcock. notice i said "some" of the works -- regard the nuance.

it's easy to become antagonistic when you're passionate, and to not even realize that you're being antagonistic! this isn't a crime, but before we discuss alt media members or folks that endorse them on one level or another, it might be prudent to do away with this one dimensional thinking that makes illogical leaps from "so n so said something in favor of Wilcock" to "so n so is a blind, numb-minded fool in need of my higher wisdom because they are unable to discern for themselves".

[WhiteFeather]

thread is good, I don't care if other thoughts come up.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And lets please keep in mind the OP. It's become a 'peace hate wilcock' - I just disagree with him and others like him.

Whom do you resonate with, if i might ask?

[frances]

My mind questions a lot of stories, articles, videos, that are produced on the alternative sites and media. So I like to hear people that keep it real. Real is good for me. Frances.

[DeDukshyn]

... i frequently notice that when a member here favors a certain alt media figure, there is always an element that will respond with knee-jerk emotionalism -- sometimes an anger, even -- in response to what they feel is the promotion of a guru by blind and sycophantic followers. sometimes i force myself to reread the entire thread, wondering how i could have possibly missed this alleged fawning, sycophantic behavior. and 9 times outta 10 i can't find! and i wonder sometimes -- are we all reading the same thread?
...

You are definitely right here.

Below is a thingy I whipped up a few months ago that seeks to try to explain what happens when conditioned response are at play. I'll also seek we (generally speaking) consider that this happens to anyone on any side of whatever imaginary fence. It is the "ego" defending it's "ideals" as though a loss in that "ideal" were actually threatening you in some way. It is not. This is where almost all unneeded stress comes from, and in a continuous state of stress, survival mode is engaged and your body actually reacts as though threatened and messes up your ability to think in larger blocks than swift reactions -it's a survival mode, but is set to run constantly by our egos in defense of our ideals and belief systems - whether your "with" Wilcock(or replace with whoever) or "against" - it matters not - it is the same process for all. I have been able to perceive this quite clearly in myself and others.

Take it for what it's worth .. my 2 cents ;)



WHAT IS --This is just what happens before ANY judgements or interpretation
↓
PERCEPTION --This is where what happened is interpreted via conditional response
↓
RATIONALIZATION --This is where thought comes in and compares the perception with historical or learned reasoning
↓
ALIGNMENT --This is where the thought polarizes with a particular feeling, result, outcome, or judgement based on the rationailzation
↓
JUSTIFICATION --This is where the alignment is justified to fulfill a sense of personal "rightness" about the previous thought processes
↓
ACTION --This is where an action or decision is taken based on the previous thought processes
↓
DEFENSE --This is where the alignment and justification process are used as a "defense" to defend the action - it matters not the appropriateness of the action or decision - when an ego goes through these thought processes it has already justified the action internally based solely on historical egoic actions - not likely based on integrity or honesty relating to the current situation.



You can't fix your defence because it naturally steps down (is a subset) based on action - if action is wrong than so is defense, no matter what or how hard you try to defend it.
You can't fix your action because it naturally steps down based on justification - if justification is wrong so will action be, no matter what or how hard you try.
You can't fix your justifications because it naturally steps down from your alignment - if your alignment is wrong so will justification be, no matter what or how hard you try.
You can't fix you alignment because it steps down from rationalization - if your rationale was wrong, everything below it can only be wrong - why try to fix something not fixable?
All the best rationale in the world is useless if it is based in incorrect or inappropriate perception - if rationalization is to have a chance, perception must be of the highest order it can be.

Since we cannot change "What Is" -- the only chance we have of changing the world is by correcting our perceptions. This happens before the first thought process - it is hidden from your view. One thinks that this is "themself" but this is actually merely their conditioned response, it occurs before you can even rationalize what has happened; did Pavlov's dog think before salivating after hearing the bell? No, it was programmed response; His mind was programmed to perceived food would be coming.

If we want to change our programming - no amount of defense, action, justification, alignment, or rationalization will ever achieve it. Only new conditioning or attaining the ability to rise above programmed response (with a consistent state of love and instant forgiveness) will work.

[Neptun]

I don't understand why some people are busy calling people a scam etc.

The basic way to decipher propaganda is to keep an open mind and not be emotional of the information. Listen to everyone and look for the bigger picture.

Every dot is information.
http://billedeupload.dk/images/Vu2Kx.gif

The reason some people have difficulty to see the truth clearly, is because they have to face the abyss and rather want to ignore it.

To see the truth, is to face the darkness(weakness) of our soul. Some people don't have what it takes to do that. It is the reason the most fearful of them are sheep.

On the other hand I don't see a problem with people having different opinions.

When I call someone disinformation is when I have pretty strong facts to back up the claim and I see the person uses globalist codes and symbolism and it fits the agenda of the New world Order.

Venus(Lucifer) Project.

http://www.feelingmovies.sk/wp-content/uploads/zeitgeist-addendum-eye-sun-in-triangle-hands-300x219.jpg

All seeing eye(Horus/Lucifer)

Luciferian/Illuminati/Founder of KKK/33rd degree Mason. Albert Pike:
What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pike

Zeitgeist motto and the name was changed to Albert Pine.

That is how they work. If you know your stuff, they are giving you clues that they are disinfo.

Lucifer punishes those that are willfully ignorant.

Notice how the Venus (Lucifer) Project fits perfectly with the New World Order agenda explained in this youtube:
lDbgDRNmhYs

[Turcurulin]

And still the thought is, if you don’t think like the rest of us; hit the bricks. The team here didn’t write that, it’s my belief that the community doesn’t like a person like me.

We love you, peace! :grouphug: Your perspective belongs in the forum because it is your own.

[jjjones]

peace, it doesn't matter who likes you as long as YOU LIKE YOU. you have to live with yourself. it is ironic that people worry about who likes them and who accepts them and their views. if someone doesn't have the same point of view or perception as you, so what, don't fret. we all chose this journey here in the school of hard knocks and are in the same boat riding the stormy seas of life. we all are here as both teachers & students, learning and teaching is what it is all about to attain awareness and inner growth. balance and discernment are essential tools when we entities are interacting. relax and enjoy the forum as it is and you are more than welcome to join in sharing your opinions & information. don't be so sensitive, it is not worth getting all emotional, just wasting your good energy. remember, use discernment, unconditionality & be non-judgemental. i hope that some little tidbit that i said will help. remember to each his own. enjoy avalon. namaste, love and peace universally :)

[Applecart]

When you get kicked out of a place, take it as a message from the universe or your higher self that it's time to do something else. then if you get to return, return as a better force than you were before. This is the same as getting forced into a cell. The universe always puts you where you need to be - sometimes the most difficult part of the process is accepting that truth.
:smow:
I don't know you prior to this thread but I already like you a lot and am glad you're here. I just arrived myself (:
And thanks for this thread, there's a whole lot of good in it.

[mosquito]

Thanks Peace. I, like Cilka, have been feeling this way too recently, so your thread just grabbed my attention.

Still not sure whether I belong here, or anywhere else for that matter, but I know I have to develop a thicker skin and also learn to express myself differently, which I admit I fnd difficult. I've always been an outsider, always had different views, always attempt to take a different perspective on things, with the result that I often go round in circles. So I for one would like to see more dissent here, more people truly questioning and not making any assumptions about what constitutes "truth".

Thanks everyone.

[Neptun]

When you get kicked out of a place, take it as a message from the universe or your higher self that it's time to do something else. then if you get to return, return as a better force than you were before. This is the same as getting forced into a cell. The universe always puts you where you need to be - sometimes the most difficult part of the process is accepting that truth.
:smow:
I don't know you prior to this thread but I already like you a lot and am glad you're here. I just arrived myself (:
And thanks for this thread, there's a whole lot of good in it.

I do understand the law of attraction and that is also my new path. But when there can't be room for disagreements(if it is not paid trolls), it can become a bit Chinese style "freedom of speech".

I don't agree with Peace regarding David Wilcock and Alex Collier and yet I think he should voice his opinion as he pleases.

[Tane Mahuta]

Peace!!...brother "re:you dont belong here". You are a spiritual being having a physical experience.

Of course you belong here!

Do not give negative comments more energy by worrying or getting upset/angry,
stay out of the game...

Accept what infomation gels/connects...discard what doesn't.

TM

[Wind]

I like David Wilcock. I never follow anyone blindly and that includes him. The only time I have paid to him is when I bought his book The Sourcefield Investigations. And I have to say, that book is rather good (it cost me less than 20 dollars which is nothing).

I think it is wonderful that we are people of many cultures and beliefs. That's what makes us rich.

[Neptun]

Thanks Peace. I, like Cilka, have been feeling this way too recently, so your thread just grabbed my attention.

Still not sure whether I belong here, or anywhere else for that matter, but I know I have to develop a thicker skin and also learn to express myself differently, which I admit I fnd difficult. I've always been an outsider, always had different views, always attempt to take a different perspective on things, with the result that I often go round in circles. So I for one would like to see more dissent here, more people truly questioning and not making any assumptions about what constitutes "truth".

Thanks everyone.
All the Chinese I have communicated with seemed like they are individual thinking and very passionate people. Westerners can't often think individually, strangely enough. Maybe it is because they think they are free, when they are not.

I think, if the Chinese had access to conspiracy research, then they would wake up instantly.

[Applecart]

When you get kicked out of a place, take it as a message from the universe or your higher self that it's time to do something else. then if you get to return, return as a better force than you were before...

I do understand the law of attraction and that is also my new path. But when there can't be room for disagreements(if it is not paid trolls), it can become a bit Chinese style "freedom of speech".

I don't agree with Peace regarding David Wilcock and Alex Collier and yet I think he should voice his opinion as he pleases.
I'll try to make my thought more clear. I'm referring to account suspension and things of that nature. Sometimes it's good to keep fighting. Sometimes it's the universe saying "I know you'd like to stay, but it's time for us to go do something else for a while.".

[Seikou-Kishi]

Peace!!...brother "re:you dont belong here". You are a spiritual being having a physical experience.

Of course you belong here!

Do not give negative comments more energy by worrying or getting upset/angry,
stay out of the game...

Accept what infomation gels/connects...discard what doesn't.

TM


Tane! I loved your post, but it struck me that the opposite is also true: "You are a spiritual being having a physical experience. Of course you don't belong here!" Perhaps none of us belongs here, and so none of us belongs here less XD

[Tarka the Duck]

We really have to look at what sort of world we want to live in.
We have to look at what we value - and allow others the same courtesy.

There is much on here that is trivial, and some who write are antagonistic.
There is not enough in-depth looking and questioning.
I do not know if this is by design, or it is the nature of a site with little quality control.
Bill Ryan and the mods do not seem to be interested in the quality of the site, but just in numbers. Easy come, easy go.

Too many people are making claims about themselves, with no view of support or thought for others who may hold different views.

It's either dog eat dog, or dog lick dog!

Just remember how this site was, and how it is now.
Some of the egos that are here just keep digging away, using the forum for their own aggrandisement...it's staggering how many people claim to be 'enlightened' here! If that's enlightenment, its not for me :rolleyes:

We need to wake up to what is going on.

Forums do not have to just reflect ordinary life: they can make a change!
But we have to change first...

[Ammit]

I joined PA 7/12/2008. Back then I was known as Donny, ( if anyone remembers ). I too took a lot of flack for some of my views and comments which back then were rather argumentative and I felt I needed to respond to almost every thread.

I left due to some of the pm`s I got, which showed me that some viewers took many topics very seriously and wished to let me know via pm`s, some others just used the pm feature to bully and slag you off if they did not agree with a comment.

I left for a while, grew up a little and returned as Ammit. I still regret leaving back then because I feel that I showed a weakness that with support from others would maybe have enlightened me and given me more understanding then I obviously had.

Maybe today I would have been a very long time ( as I am ) member instead of only a few years as denoted on my membership join date, which is not the case due to an invite back and returning as Ammit.

I learned that, we all have a point of view, that we all read things differently and we all post how we feel is right about a topic at a time of reading and posting. I found that as a group we should have beeen able to help those who for whatever reasons have a different understanding of a post and listen a little more deeply to individual points of view.

But believe me, things here are a lot calmer then they used to be and pa members are far more willing to advise and help. Take a break from here but dont cancel your membership, look at doing some of your own research into a topic that holds firm for you and when you are ready to return, you can blast us all with this new found wisdom and knowledge.

I have not a clue if this makes any sense at all.......


Ammit

[mosquito]

All the Chinese I have communicated with seemed like they are individual thinking and very passionate people. Westerners can't often think individually, strangely enough. Maybe it is because they think they are free, when they are not.

I think, if the Chinese had access to conspiracy research, then they would wake up instantly.


Errrrrrm, I'm NOT Chinese !!!

[Tane Mahuta]

Peace!!...brother "re:you dont belong here". You are a spiritual being having a physical experience.

Of course you belong here!

Do not give negative comments more energy by worrying or getting upset/angry,
stay out of the game...

Accept what infomation gels/connects...discard what doesn't.

TM


Tane! I loved your post, but it struck me that the opposite is also true: "You are a spiritual being having a physical experience. Of course you don't belong here!" Perhaps none of us belongs here, and so none of us belongs here less XD

Hey SK...intriguing...what I forgot to include, is that we all volunteered to come here!!
So...if we don't belong here!...then where do we belong?...hmmm

TM

[peace]

Just to be clear. I'm not leaving!! This thread has really opened up my eyes to the "right or wrong" type thinking i've been stuck in.

All the responses on here have been great and when I get some time soon I'll try to respond better

THANKS TO ALL and keep the ideas going!

[Ammit]

I am so glad to see you not leave.

I hope what you have read brings all the pleasure and needed support you need to stay with us.

Blessings

Ammit

[peace]

thanks everyone for the replies, i really should have noted this was not an "i'm leaving" thread.
this discussion and comments are helping my thinking. especially with the info disussed here. most of the time i follow this info thinking, 'this is a bit crazy, but there could be something here,' and as soon as something doesn't add up:

judge.
jury.
executioner.

which doesn't help anyone.

my critical eye WILL stay and i WILL still disagree. but, i will be working on my presentation of the disagreement.

[Providence]

It is a difficult task, to be human, and a much more difficult task to remain true to yourself and to others.

As human beings, and we may not like to admit it, we are very vulnerable to the trappings of our emotional state. Pride is something that I have seen take down many good intentioned, gifted, and knowledgeable teachers, and it takes a very wise and balanced soul to stay the course and not allow the 'self' to become mingled with the truth in the message.

Separate the chaff from the grain when it is offered to you, gather together the grains of truth, and be thankful for the sower and the harvest.

Peace

[ProperLogic]

"I think some of these bold claims, require bold evidence "

How many of Wilcock's books have you read? How much of his presented evidence have you scoured through and found to be able to dismiss? If you have done this, why can you dismiss his evidence? Is it due to refuting science? Or maybe it is because it relates to more advanced concepts than you give consideration to or are educated in? -- this also needs to be considered.

If you have this data assembled so as to back up any of your "There is NO evidence" claims, I'd love to see it, perhaps I can explain some things in a ways that would make more sense if you were able to have more of a one on one with?

Are you a truth seeker or a complainer / judger? ;) Talk is cheap, back it up with something real -- at least David Wilckock has done a **** ton of research and put it into writing in the form of books. You don't have to agree with him but if you want to be taken seriously as an opponent of his, read his books for a start, then begin by refuting his specific pieces of evidence, otherwise its just a guy complaining about something he doesn't know about -- that's not useful for anyone.

Good luck!! If you decide to adventure on this, please make a thread of your findings here on Avalon. If you do this I'll give you my full attention. ;)

Well said.