The gut of most disease... NOT what you think! [Archive]

Dawn

10th April 2012, 03:40

Note: After using the methods espoused in this thread for 2 years I ended up finding out that it is not healthy in the long run. That is not to say that some healthy people might benefit from the info here.... but if you stay on this diet you will never be as healthy as you could/should be. If you are new here please look at my new thread here for up-to-date information: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67192-Moldy-Modern-diet-and-Biohacking-your-body

I am on a fairly recent journey that involves re-remembering something about health that I had forgotten along the way. This has changed my health in dramatic and unexpected ways over a short period... and there will be more changes for me to come as I progress through this deep healing path.

It turns out that most illnesses we see today such as...
~schizophrenia
~depression
~ADHD
~ADD
~Dyspraxia
~Dyslexia
~cancer
~autism
~autoimmune diseases of every type
~arthritus
~over weight as well as under weight
....All have a common root. Our gut flora and fauna has become sickened and pathological due to a combination of antibiotics, chlorinated water, GMOs, food processing, food additives, and a sugar filled diet. When these ‘wee little life forms’ which live within our gut are healthy they make all our vitamins for us, digest our foods while passing along nutrients we need for robust health, and defend us against pathogens. Without them... well, look around you, we all look ill.

My personal learning curve on this began with the Rosedale diet, which eliminates all foods which digest as sugars. This was a good beginning, but without the rest of the information available through the work of D. Natasha Campbell-McBride, MD, it was not enough to change my life in the radical way I desired. A link to the first in her 6 part interview follows. ‘Gut and Psychology Sydrome (GAPS) by her is a must read if you or anyone in your family is facing health challenges http://www.gutandpsychologysyndrome.com/

A link to the part I of her 6 part interview with Dr Mercola follows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjJhh47Emao&feature=relmfu

link to part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0B-P_bMhn4&feature=relmfu

link to part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjORwUdJY20&feature=relmfu

link to part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVLXIdQIaD8&feature=relmfu

Link to part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej7fUOl70j0&feature=relmfu

Link to part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHe9mQ9WpEI&feature=relmfu

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Here is another link with a wealth of information presented in a very understandable way. This will give you an eduction about this subject in an easy to understand way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKKT6v0sFVU

Dawn

10th April 2012, 04:40

OK.. so you’ve taken the time to listen to this... what’s next. Well I’ve jumped into this with both feet. There is such a big YES in my body and a knowing that this is right for me. Just this week I’ve started my own sauerkraut after watching the following video with Daniel Vitalis. He explains not only how to make it, but also why it is so important for your immune system and digestion.

Part I:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDdZJNsIC3E

Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjfvP4pAUuY&feature=relmfu

After watching his video I looked in my local Craigslist and found someone selling a used sauerkraut crock and have my first batch already fermenting away. Here are some useful links to where you can obtain really great sauerkraut crocks for every budget: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sauerkraut+crock

My crock is a ‘Harsch Gairtopf Fermenting Crock’ and I am very happy with the design. However I’ve also had success with an old fashioned open lid crock 40 years ago when I used to make sauerkraut as a young woman. Then I used cheese cloth over the fermenting kraut, followed by a heavy upside down plate about the size as the opening of my kraut crock. On top of this I placed 2 bricks which kept the fermenting cabbage below the brine down during the fermenting process. While this is a less expensive method, you must watch for, and clean off, any mold which forms (something which I won’t have to do with my new Harsh Crock)

angel in disguise

10th April 2012, 04:51

I found an amazing book called 'Nourishing Traditions' by Sally Fallon. It goes into fermenting and such, and SO much more. It is 'The cookbook that challenges politically correct nutrition and the diet dictocrats'. It's really a fascinating book and I highly recommend it <3

Carmen

10th April 2012, 06:53

It's a great book. I have it also. Love the little anecdotal stories in the margins!

PathWalker

10th April 2012, 07:04

I am totally with you Dawn. Go for it, take responsibility and empower your body.

I just want to remind you of the next step.
Once your body is strong enough to stand up, the next step is to cleanse the emotional traumas and debilitating behavior patterns . These trauma are the underlying cause to most of our physical ailments.
If you look into ancient medicine practice, you will find always emotional clearing.
So we want to clear the base reason for our ailments with forgiveness and acceptance to ourselves first. That requires courage and strength to face through our trauma and fears.

Good luck, and power in your healing path.
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Connecting with Sauce

10th April 2012, 07:26

Investigate getting some Kefir grains too. This is fermented milk.

My wife being Russian ferments cabbage regularly and Daniel and Natasha have both been guests on oneradionetwork (http://www.oneradionetwork.com/). Daniel had a 3 hour show recently (http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health/daniel-vitalis-rewild-your-body-rewild-your-mind-march-29-2012/) which was pretty amazing... I listened to part of it in my FIR sauna (http://www.oneradionetwork.com/newsflash/infrared-saunas-safely-detoxify-the-body-and-help-heal-injuries-article/) (great for heavy metal and fluoride removal (http://www.oneradionetwork.com/healing-modalities/detox-womens-health-frequency-healing-with-nenah-sylver/)).

...and to get good gut health you need to have good bile flow from the liver for this you need to remove the blockages within it by liver flushing (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?6528-Liver-detox--from-av1-) my thread I originally started on PA1 would be good. Andreas Moritz in his second hour of this show (http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health/andreas-moritz-holistic-healing-june-16-2011/) says cancer (and most other diseases) are caused by the liver being blocked. I can't recommend doing liver flushes enough... I've now done about 13 :)

If you combine all this with your own best medicine (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1793-Taking-the-piss-Your-own-best-medicine...) then you're on to a winner...

I'm off to a talk in London today about health and healing modalities so will hopefully learn a few things more today.

The most difficult thing is finding the time to do these things in the 'mad old paradigm world' we live in which if you have a meaningless job for 40 hrs a weeks takes up a lot of your time.

conk

10th April 2012, 16:07

Wonderful information. Remember the scientists and doctors from the 1930s to 1950s who touted good intestinal health as the answer? That most problems began in the colon? The Rockefeller funded and growing pharmaceutical ideas managed to squash that truth. Ridiculed and ruined by lies.

Intestinal health is complex and understood by few, and maligned by most all. Great thread that needs to be fully embraced by all on the forum.

pugwash84

10th April 2012, 19:12

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/can-you-ever-cure-autism-379991

A mother claims she helped with her children's autism

Dawn

10th April 2012, 19:29

I moved away from relying on commercial probiotics about 10 days ago. I've been making kefer since then using a starter culture from commercial organic goat kefer. I saved some of it and simply added it to a quart of raw milk. I like making kefer better than yogurt because there is no need to warm it or have a special warm place for it to ferment (like with yogurt). After 2-4 days on my kitchen counter it is done and ready to enjoy. However, there are no grains in the commercial kefer I am using so I have also ordered some kefer grains by mail which will arrive in the next 2-3 days. Using these is the traditional method.

As I perused the internet about all of this. I read a lot about people who ferment their own 'ginger bug' and 'rejuvilac'. Today I am starting my personal ginger bug. I have my 1/2 gal mason jar squeaky clean and I'm going to add a few tablespoons of fresh grated ginger and then a couple of teaspoons of sugar. This is supposed to be about capturing a 'wild yeast' from the surrounding air and growing it in the sweetened ginger water. Each day I will add a little more fresh grated ginger and a bit more sugar to feed the 'ginger bug' ... within 5 or so days I should have a bubbly fermented tart tasting drink that will enrich my inner garden.

I also am sprouting rye grains in a sprouting jar, after soaking them overnight. In 2-3 days I will have sprouted rye which I can chop coarsely and soak in water to make my own fermented Rejuvilac.

Here's the thing I am focusing on... Diseases such as Autism, Depression and even Schizophrenia have been CURED totally this way. Who even knows what aspects of 'aging' in my body are actually a result of unhealthy flora and fauna. Now don't misunderstand, I have been eating organic for all my life. I have grown my own gardens for a large portion of my life. I have even taken commercial probiotics off and on for over 30 years. And I have done body cleanses of all types every year. I also was not eating sugar or most grains prior to beginning this process... Never-the-less, during the first 2 months of the Rosedale diet I suffered massive die off symptoms without understanding what they were. This way of eating along with natural probiotics is the most thorough cleanse I have ever experienced, with the exception of the time I spent as a breatharian.

I am writing of my personal experience to let all of you know that this is not a 'surface' or 'light' cleanse and change I am speaking of here. Please don't lightly dismiss this information and believe you are free of the need for it. Or that you could not benefit from really looking carefully at it. If you are child bearing age (for men too), this information is critical. And if you have young children, this body of information is very important to them.

In order to turn your health around there is approximately a 2 year protocol where your diet is very restricted. You are not hungry, but you are very limited as to what kind of food you put into your digestive system.

When I was in my 50s skin tags discolorations appeared on my skin... these are starting to vanish.. about 75% of them are gone now. Also, my ankles more or less disappeared about 2 years ago at age 59 despite walking daily, bicycle riding and a healthy diet (so I thought). I put it up to the destruction of aging. However, my ankles have reappeared, and my feet are 'skinny' without any puffiness. My hair has increased in thickness and curliness so that I have a full head of naturally brown hair. (All the friends I have that are my age have sliver or even white hair already). I've lost a small amount of weight on this diet, just 10 pounds, and I wish it were more. My partner, who is a 59 year old man, has lost 25 pounds so far with this way of eating along with probiotics. But... the most important thing is that I am happy 99% of the time and all mood swings have stopped. So, as promised this diet evens out the emotions and hormonal system. And... I have only just begun. I still have 1.75 years to go on the recommended protocol to see full benefits.

pugwash84

10th April 2012, 19:37

clay baths are supposed to be good for drawing out toxins
http://www.eytonsearth.org/mercury-toxicity-bentonite-clay.php
http://www.eytonsearth.org/clay-baths.php

My son has had Autism since birth, they say that is called classic autism and that is different to the other autism from toxins. The weird thing is though, because I have always known him as who he is with autism, I can't imagine him any other way.

sleepy

10th April 2012, 19:37

xxxxx xxcxxx

Eram

10th April 2012, 19:41

Thanks Dawn,

Some months ago we read about this too and were excited about it, but I was heaving troubles with the sugar part.
Just a week ago a started oil pulling thanks to a thread in this section and one of the things that happened is that I lost a tooth. My sweet tooth that is ;), so now may be a perfect time to start using this diet.
We were about to start with making kefir also.

Never-the-less, during the first 2 months of the Rosedale diet I suffered massive die off symptoms without understanding what they were.

Im sorry. Could you please explain what this means?

jorr lundstrom

10th April 2012, 20:02

Whne I heard a speech by Natasha a couple of weeks ago I looked
at my intake of sugar. 8 big cups of coffee/ day 3 teaspoons of sugar
in each= 24 teaspoons of sugar/ day. I stopped putting sugar in the
coffee. After a couple of days I realized I didnt like coffee, it was all
about the sugar. So I stopped drinking coffee. Now I drink tea without
sugar. One step at a time. LOL

All is well

Jorr 2.0

Dawn

10th April 2012, 22:07

Wakytweaky: Some months ago we read about this too and were excited about it, but I was having troubles with the sugar part.
Just a week ago I started oil pulling, thanks to a thread in this section, and one of the things that happened is that I lost a tooth. My sweet tooth that is , so now may be a perfect time to start using this diet.
We were about to start with making kefir also.

Quote Posted by Dawn (here) Never-the-less, during the first 2 months of the Rosedale diet I suffered massive die off symptoms without understanding what they were.

Wakytweaky: Im sorry. Could you please explain what this means?

Well, this is the unpleasant part of a cleansing process. As you build up a culture of life enhancing bacteria and stop eating food which feeds the pathogenic bacteria the 'bad guys' begin to die off. As they do this they have tactics which are designed to cause you to feed them their favorite foods, so you develop cravings. That is their first line of defense. When this does not work they manufacture poisons designed to kill off competing bacteria around them and you feel it as a poison. In my case I had all the symptoms of dysentary for 2 months and could not be away from the house or the plumbing facilities for more than 5 minutes at a time. This is a pretty strong die off reaction, most people will be unlikely to have something this severe. However common reactions are usually similar to flu like symptoms.

Here's what Wiki says about this:
"The Herxheimer reaction (or Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction) resembles bacterial sepsis".

Taking the time to educate yourself in this protocol is recommended before you just dive into it. It is usually best to go slowly, especially if you have not done a cleanse for a while.

In my case, I had cancer a few years ago. I healed myself but have been dealing with some pretty aggressive pathogens ever since. I've just never felt 'right' since then. Going to live in Mexico twice and picking up local pathogens there did not help. I did every cleanse I had ever heard about or could find last year... with the result that I knew something really nasty was still in residence within my body. This diet along with home made probiotics is finally getting at the root of it.

Jorr: Whne I heard a speech by Natasha a couple of weeks ago I looked
at my intake of sugar. 8 big cups of coffee/ day 3 teaspoons of sugar
in each= 24 teaspoons of sugar/ day. I stopped putting sugar in the
coffee. After a couple of days I realized I didnt like coffee, it was all
about the sugar. So I stopped drinking coffee. Now I drink tea without
sugar. One step at a time. LOL

Hi Jorr, here's a trick I've been using that is really helpful. I learned that cinnamon totally gets rid of sugar cravings. It is even sold in capsule form for this use. I make a few cups of herbal teas which cinnamon in them (these are commercially available). These teas taste sweet and pleasant, and when I am done with a cup all my sugar desire is gone. Perhaps that will help you.

Note: I am updating this post nearly 2 years later because I've learned more about cinnamon since then. Please search out 'ceylon cinnamon' rather than the traditional type sold in most USA stores (cassia cinnamon). It can be identified by its very thin papery skin (if in stick form) or by a label that says the ingredients are 'ceylon cinnamon'. This is very IMPORTANT! Ceylon cinnamon is good for you... Cassia cinnamon is poisonous and is the most common type found at markets. Here is a link to learn more: http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/choosing_the_right_cinnamon.aspx

However this diet is not just about sugar... it is about everything that digests as sugar. When you take the time to learn about this, you might be surprised that almost your entire diet is actually sugar. Even though I was not eating any actual sugar or corn syrup sweetened food, I now realize that my whole diet was digesting as sugar. My metabolism was based on sugar. Now my metabolism is based on burning good fats.

Dawn

10th April 2012, 22:25

Pugwash84: My son has had Autism since birth, they say that is called classic autism and that is different to the other autism from toxins. The weird thing is though, because I have always known him as who he is with autism, I can't imagine him any other way.

I hope you are open to exploring this information. I don't believe your doctor is educated in the situation. The crux of the matter is that this is a doctor caused illness due to multi-generational use of antibiotics. That means it is due to your grandmother, your mother, and you having prescription antibiotics, (chlorinated water and factory-fresh food don't help either). Dads contribute too as they share their pelvic flora and fauna with their mates during intercourse. What do you have to loose by learning about this and trying it for your family?

The book is a very good read, and you will be amazed at the information supplied in just the first 20 pages.

As I look back at my life I realize that many of my current health problems stem directly from things doctors have prescribed or done to me and things dentists have done to my mouth. Actually, the entire medical field is based on the idea that we need to kill, sterilize, and obliterate pathogens. After 80 years of antibiotics and vaccinations just look at how sick almost everyone is. And autism has gone from 1 child in 1,100 to 1 child in 55. Something is seriously wrong. It appears Dr Campbell-McBride has nailed the problem and has a very thorough understanding of it. Her protocol has cured many autistic children, not just her son.

Eram

10th April 2012, 22:49

Thanks so much for the explanation Dawn,

I'm really excited about it and I think I will make the shift slowly haha. I'm not a big fan of making sprints to the toilet :nono:

DeDukshyn

10th April 2012, 23:52

While I fully agree that our western processed, poisoned (fluoride and chlorine -- both apparently negatively affect the endocrine system) foods are compromising our health in a myriad of ways, I always look from the highest step - down, which would mean our consciousness defines our health (choosing healthy foods from love rather than fear is a result of consciousness).

The metaphysical aside, I have to say there is chlorine in almost ALL our foods. I have an extreme sensitivity to chlorine (a recent development), where I can taste it in almost every food I eat. I taste it in fresh vegetables (cleaned in bleachwater to rid "germs"), I taste it in potato chips (Pure chlorine is used to very quickly clean equipment between batches for most food manufacturers), I taste it in my beer (same - used for fast cleaning equipment between batches - plus since Fluoride has been coming out of cities water, it is now added to alcoholic beverages, and the latest from the controlled celebrities song lyrics = "Drink you face off and party!"-paraphrased but it is everywhere, in 50% of the current pop songs), And of course I taste it in my city water (if you pour water into a container, stir or shake vigorously for 5 minutes to evaporate most of the chlorine - the refrigerate), etc.

Don't even get me started on MSG ... I've noticed that since governments are putting a bit of pressure on food producers to reduce salt, that the salt comes out but MSG goes in to replace it -- it offers more fake flavour enhancement for the sodium buck (which needs to be labelled), so now there's more of it than ever.

All comes down to eating local fresh foods, and growing what you can yourself ... keep it local, keep it organic. If everyone loses their "drugs" (pharma, not recreational), their dependance on "Grid" electricity, and eats local, natural and organic, then congratulations, at this point you have basically stopped giving the elite your hard earned cash which they use only to try to control you and the world with. This is King Anthony's answer to the elite, no matter how hard he denies it -- it is the ONLY way, plus those participating get proper freedom again, which is basically no dependence on "Them" ;-)

I skimmed over a few posts where autism was being discussed. There is a natural amino peptide called L-Carnosine that has shown some promise in helping people with autism cope more normally. It may be worth looking into. ;)

Most people do not realize that the human body has more bacteria than human cells in it - not because we are diseased, but because our body harvests them for all sorts of purposes -- messing up the balance or allowing a less desirable to take control is certainly not good for your overall health.

antelucem

11th April 2012, 00:02

I know of people who have used this to treat thier child of autism and while it took a few months they swear by the GAPS method. Thanks for bringing this to my attention again Dawn.

Connecting with Sauce

11th April 2012, 00:18

I've just been in London today listening to this talk...

http://amazinghealthtalks.com/

Quite informative and there were a couple of things which I think looked worth investing in (one was £6k though :-/ ) ... bought some propper dried sea salt and some bee pollen too rather easier to budget for... :)

Dennis Leahy

11th April 2012, 02:40

PathWalker

11th April 2012, 07:59

As I look back at my life I realize that many of my current health problems stem directly from things doctors have prescribed or done to me and things dentists have done to my mouth. Actually, the entire medical field is based on the idea that we need to kill, sterilize, and obliterate pathogens.

Hey Dawn I am with you about the western scientific medical paradigm.
Yet one has a spiritual path to take, that includes many drama types. Especially health issues.
The first step is take responsibility for your condition. And you are on it big time.

So I stopped blaming the medical profession, I understand and respect their role. Most of them have faith in their service.
We are programmed to relinquish our health responsibility to them. And the tide is reversing big time.
The medical and pharma establishment are in panic. The business stopped growing, and in some places stated to shrink.
It is not that bad after all.

applepie

11th April 2012, 08:00

Hi Dawn,

Good to hear from you again.

I recently switched over 100% to the raw food diet. My diet had become quite monotonous and the thought came to me that I should ask my body what it would like to eat. I saw nothing but green, green leaves. Within days I saw a local course advertised on how to prepare raw food for beginners. I enrolled and was surprised how delicious the food was. This motivated me to research the raw food diet more closely. Read a lot of books from the library and watched lots of dvds. This made me decide to do the switch over cold turkey. Started to lose weight immediately although I never felt hungry and the food was literally delicious. It became impossible for me to overeat. My body felt some tingling particularly in my arms and I felt really well physically. Have been on this diet now for 9 weeks and lost 16 pounds without any trouble. Intend to stay on this long term.

Dawn

11th April 2012, 08:05

Dawn, I'm all ears.

A new book (new to me) Victoria Boutenko's Green for Life has been my latest attempt to gain a new level of health. Somewhere along the line, I developed a war in my intestines that has lasted for about 18 years. It is possible that t started from a round of very powerful antibiotics that I took, to kill a (presumed) mycoplasma pneumonia-like infection that kicked my ass for over 6 weeks. I have had antibiotics only twice in the last 2 decades. Once was as mentioned, and a decade later, after a lot of research, I allowed myself to take a round of antibiotics (Rifaximin) that were supposed to kill-off the intestinal flora overgrowth, and allow me to start fresh with new intestinal flora. It didn't work. (I still have "IBS-D" symptoms.)

More later. Gotta run (pun intended.) Dennis

Yes, Dennis... same type of thing in my life. I was put on daily antibiotics for a 20 (!!!) year kidney infection. I finally left medical treatment for good when I was informed that I was to be put on a transplant list for new kidneys. Without the poison of antibiotics I became free of this infection within 10 days of taking a combination of herbs at last. However permanent damage had been done to my system which I have fought all of my adult life.

Dr. Campbell-McBride points out that after a round of antibiotics there is a 2 week window when our beneficial bacteria are mostly wiped out. This is when pathogenic bacteria and viruses can breach the barriers that are normally in place, entering the body directly or taking up permanent residence in our digestive tract. Once this happens, they flood our system with continuous toxins, and exchange their genetic material with our cells. That is when our immune system begins to attack our own cells, because of the pathogenic components and DNA they now contain.

On top of all of this we begin to starve slowly. This is because the beneficial flora and fauna normally manufacture all our vitamins for us as well as break down our food in other ways that allows our bodies to use it. So our bodies weaken from starvation, at the same time they are being flooded with toxins, and the pathogens are changing our cellular DNA.

It appears the main reason to eat is to feed these beneficial bacteria. Without them we sicken and die.

What a concept... we are dying and sickening because we have used the energy of kill and sterilize in our approach to health. Our energy would have been so much better spent focusing on life, and enhancing the health of our internal gardens.

Well Dennis, all I can say to you is that I have normal digestion for the first time in many years. However I am still experiencing die off symptoms on a daily basis. These are not severe now, as they were for the first 2 months. Instead I am now experiencing fuzzy eyesight and bouts of sudden sleepiness which come and go, as the pathogenic organisms flood my system with opiate like poisons while they are dying off. It is clear to me that this cleanse is going deeper than any I have done and is actually working. I have tried 20 or 30 cleanses previously... but they did not get at the root of my health issues like this one is doing.

Thanks to some of the comments about liver cleansing that have been mentioned on this thread. I have done sooo many liver cleanses and flushes in the past. My body has released a lot of stones but any health changes have been none or very temporary. I probably should consider another one soon, however after 2 solid months of having severe diarrhea at the beginning of this cleanse, I just can't face a deliberate creation of this symptom to cleanse my liver at this moment. LOL.

PathWalker

11th April 2012, 08:07

BTW I am not fermenting my food, yet I am juicing my vegetables and greens in order to gain the minerals and enzymes.
With the juicer I am able to drink equivalent to 1 Kg vegetables and greens a day. I could not intake it by eating.
Using a juicer I can put in some healthy greens and herbs I dislike and mask the taste with more dominant tastes.

I am also eating starch, fat and protein.
I am trying to be moderate on all modalities.

Dawn

11th April 2012, 08:22

Pathwalker: BTW I am not fermenting my food, yet I am juicing my vegetables and greens in order to gain the minerals and enzymes.
With the juicer I am able to drink equivalent to 1 Kg vegetables and greens a day. I could not intake it by eating.
Using a juicer I can put in some healthy greens and herbs I dislike and mask the taste with more dominant tastes.

I am also eating starch, fat and protein.
I am trying to be moderate on all modalities.

Well, I was doing the same thing you are with very poor results. And I kept getting sicker each year. So... you might need to do more at some point. For me I came to the absolute end of the road as to any health benefits juicing could provide me. Without beneficial bacteria and with so many pathogenic organisms eating the sugar in the healthy fresh organic juices and organic foods I was eating...my body was simply unable to remain healthy. That is why I created this thread.... for those of us who are no longer helped by the diet you mention.

If you have healthy flora and fauna, your diet should be an excellent one. But if your inner and outer garden of bacteria has been compromised then no matter how healthy your diet is ... you will not experience health. Unfortunately most of the Western world does not have the healthy bacteria needed to remain disease free.

So, this thread provides a recipe for health for people like me and my offspring.

Oh, I forgot to mention something very important. Although I still experience almost daily die-off symptoms... I am now pain free from head to toe. That is wonderful at my age. Over the years the symptoms I've had from imbalanced gut flora have led to diagnoses from various doctors of Lupus, arthritus, Parkinsons, MS, fibromyalgia, and massive organ failure. I have refused treatment for all of these... and now I don't have any of the symptoms. What a relief!

PathWalker

11th April 2012, 09:40

Just found out this great article here (http://www.naturalnews.com/035530_immune_system_herbs_spices.html)

Helping the body's defense system
The body's defense system is only as dependable as the support it gets. Some people are just blessed with a good set of genes that ensure a strong immune system. For others who are not as lucky, they must work for immunity by observing proper nutrition, sufficient rest, a healthy active lifestyle, plenty of sun and reduced stress. Recent studies have shown that getting enough of these while cutting down on unhealthy habits and avoiding processed foods restores the immune system to peak performance.

Observing proper sanitation also plays a vital role in keeping the immune system working. It is recognized as the best preventive medicine and its actual practice can reduce outbreaks and diseases, translating to significant economic, environmental as well as social benefits.

Antibiotics and vaccination as remedies to assist the body's defenses against disease have now been debunked by recent findings. Of late, antibiotics have been shown to attack beneficial bacteria in the stomach and suppress immune functions.

Foods that naturally boost the immune system
Foods that boost the body's immune system can offer a lot of healthy options for those who wish to be more conscious in what they take in. To be sustained, the immune system heavily depends on the stomach for support. Malnourished individuals are more susceptible to disease as opposed to those who observe a healthy nutritious diet. Below are some of these examples:

1. Echinacea - Echinacea is a popular herb that has been identified to boost immunity. Combined with goldenseal, another herb, or enjoyed alone as tea, this member of the daisy family has been found to prevent and treat upper respiratory tract infections as well as the common cold.

2. Ginseng - This herb has many varieties. The most commonly studied variety is Panax ginseng, also known as Korean ginseng. Its main active component, ginsenosides, has been proven to have anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer properties. Clinical research studies have demonstrated that it may improve immune and psychological functions as well as conditions related to diabetes.

3. Garlic - This spice has had a long history of medicinal value. In a recent study conducted by Dr. Ellen Tattelman, an assistant professor at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University, New York, it was reconfirmed that garlic indeed has cardiovascular, anti-microbial and antineoplastic properties. It's also a perfect spice to use when doing sauteed dishes.

4. Bell peppers- This pepper variety does not contain capsaicin, unlike its other feisty cousins. On the contrary, it is sweet and crunchy and contains the carotenoid lycopene which lowers the risk of cancer; beta-carotene which is converted to vitamin A; and Zeaxanthin, known to prevent macular degeneration and cataracts.

5. Ginger - This herb has been shown to reduce inflammation, cardiovascular conditions, blood clots and cholesterol. In a study, researchers found that animal subjects given ginger extracts had a significant reduction in cholesterol and blood clotting qualities. Moreover, it has been observed to inhibit the behavior of genes connected with inflammation.

6. Turmeric- This spice contains curcumin, which has notable antioxidant properties. It also has antibacterial, anti-inflammatory and stomach soothing benefits. It reduces inflammation by stimulating the adrenal glands to increase the hormone that lessens inflammation. Animal studies on this herb have revealed that turmeric protects the liver from the adverse effects of alcohol and certain toxins. Turmeric also helps in digestive problems by stimulating bile flow.

7. Gingko Biloba- Gingko biloba's leaves contain antioxidant compounds called bilobalides and ginkgolides that protect the body from damage caused by free radicals. Moreover, it has also been found to protect against radiation. In a study using animal subjects, ginkgo was demonstrated to have protected the test subjects against radiation poisoning. The latest research also suggests that extracts of this herb can neutralize oxidizing agents and free radicals caused in the cells due to radiation, thus preventing cell death. In fact, NaturalNews recently reported that ginkgo extracts reduce brain damage by up to 50 percent.

8. Ganoderma- This is a bitter mushroom also known as reishi. It has long been a popular herb in Chinese medicine attributed to assisting in longevity and health. Further studies on this oriental herb reveal that it strengthens immunity and combats cancer. Moreover, it has antioxidant properties and provides relief from urinary tract infections.

9. Astralagus - Also from China, this herb stimulates the immune system and aids in digestion and adrenal gland functions. It is also a diuretic. The effectiveness of this herb is due to polysaccharides, saponins and flavonoids. It has also been taken to combat the common cold and flu. Its digestive health benefits demonstrate the lowering of stomach acidity, resulting to an increase in the body's metabolic rates and the promotion of waste elimination.

10. Cat's claw - This herb from Peru is commonly used for stomach problems. Recently, however, it is becoming known as an exceptional immune response stimulator that helps the body to fight off infections and degenerative diseases. It contains oxindole alkaloids enhancing the immune system's capacity to engulf and destroy pathogens.

From a practical perspective, taking in food which boosts the immune system while enjoying it at the same time can be a cost effective way to maintain health. Coupled with a healthy lifestyle, sufficient rest and a positive outlook in life, staying healthy does not have to cost an arm and a leg.

Sources for this article:

http://www.immunesystemremedies.com/food-for-the-immune-system.html
http://www.sanitation-is-dignity.org/why_sanitation
http://immunedisorders.homestead.com/antibiotics.html
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/echinacea-000239.htm
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/1015/p1539.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/027469_ginkgo_biloba_radiation_damage.html
http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/ganoderma.htm
http://www.naturalnews.com/027223_ASTRAGALUS_immune_system.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/032917_cats_claw_herb.html

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035530_immune_system_herbs_spices.html#ixzz1rit8upq4

Dawn

11th April 2012, 18:01

Pathwalker, I'm glad you put up the above post. It illustrates how we have been using herbs and natural remedies. We have been using them with nearly the same mental attitude as allopathic medicine has. That is, we use them to address symptoms of illness, and to kill off pathogens. And THAT is actually the problem because it does not address the underlying issue, and in fact can make it infinitely worse.

I have spent the past 25 years learning about the immune system and taking every healthy food and health giving herb known to man. I have read extensively on the subject of cleansing, herbal treatments, and healthy diets of all types. I have gone to many healers, and done many protocols based on herbs, diet, foods, and exercise. I have been a practicing healer myself for 20 years as well. NONE of these things has addressed this issue.

This thread is about toxic gut flora and fauna being the silent killer throughout our society... and how to correct it... it is NOT about the modalities you are bringing up.

PLEASE READ the topic and EDUCATE yourself FIRST before posting on this thread about your wonderful knowledge. All of the things you are pointing to DO NOT address and cure autism, or the other diseases mentioned at the beginning of the thread. They might help the symptoms, but only if you keep taking them or doing them.

If we can implant healthy internal flora and fauna and eliminate pathogens by not feeding them the food they are living on within us... then permanent healing takes place. Not only that, but the 'good bacteria and viruses' nurture our bodies and fight off invaders so that we become truly healthy.

You probably did not intend this... but some of you are acting as trolls and derailing this thread by continuously bringing in old info about cleansing. This thread is NOT about this topic... it is about a new attitude completely. One that nurtures life and one that creates a permanent solution.

PS: I have taken rounds of every single herb mentioned in the above post. They caused die off, however they did not address the underlying issues. In fact many of them made the problem worse because they acted as natural antibiotics and further killed off gut organisms, both bad and good. In this way my problem became worse over my lifetime.

13th Warrior

11th April 2012, 18:19

Hi Dawn,

I think you are really onto something here for many people with health/diet issues.

I suspect that people who have problems eating gluten products have their intestinal environments out of whack.

David Wolf address this issue but, his focus is on "Candida" cleanse.

Have you looked into drinking "Kombucha"

Dawn

11th April 2012, 18:45

Hi 13th warrior. I am rediscovering all the old fermented beverages now. I used to drink Kombucha like a fish, however it did nothing to help me. Now that I have a radically different diet, which is slowly starving the pathogenic organisms, and am also implanting 'good organisms' daily, things are changing. Kombucha might work now. I would have to be sure that there is absolutely no sugar at all left in the brew however, because I still have pathogenic hold outs that love sugar and bloom like crazy if I eat anything with sugar in it. At this point the pathogens have breached the intestinal barrier and are all throughout my body and nervous system, so not feeding them is of utmost importance.

Thanks for the reminder. After 3 months on this diet the ONLY sweet thing I am consuming is cinnamon tea. Not sure how palatable Kombucha without any sweetener at all will be... perhaps I could get a living Kombucha mushroom and after every last sugar molecule is gone I could add cinnamon to sweeten slightly? Hmmmm.... that is something I might try in the future. Thanks again.

PathWalker

11th April 2012, 18:48

All of the things you are pointing to DID NOT help me over that past 25 years to correct the problem facing me. Until now I have not found a single thing which has deeply addressed the root of my problem, and I am not alone.

Beloved Dawn,

Please be kind to yourself and appreciate your body and the hell you went through together. You are a strong women.

Here are some point to consider:
1. You are alive and functional. Be supportive and grateful to your body, after what it went and going.
2. You have much control over your health, and vast knowledge about healing.
3. You did not heal the cause of your condition. I sense it is not at the physical. And the physical condition is a reflection. You heal one symptom and another one comes.

My suggestion is 2 phase healing.
1. Strengthen the body to level you are not in agony and can attend your emotional cleansing.
2. Go through emotional cleansing. It is scary and painful. Some people will prefer to die rather face their internal daemons and trauma.

Dolores Canon have a technique that goes directly to the sub conscious and the sub conscious does instant healing.

Love
Health and happiness
PathWalker

Dennis Leahy

11th April 2012, 19:13

Dawn, you have mentioned sugars several times. Have you tried stevia? And do you see any problems with having stevia in one's diet?

Dennis
p.s. I'm in the middle of listening to the series with Natasha Campbell-McBride. Fascinating.

onawah

11th April 2012, 19:24

Does anyone know how homeopathic remedies might address the problems at issue here?

Dennis Leahy

11th April 2012, 19:32

Does anyone know how homeopathic remedies might address the problems at issue here?
I'm far enough into the audio links at the beginning of the OP to have heard that diet, probiotics, and juicing (for cleansing) and other cleansing techniques are what are recommended. And, fermented foods. I don't have the specifics, and perhaps that will require buying her book. I'd happily pay for any book that can help me back to optimum health.

So, if my understanding of homeopathic remedies is correct, they stimulate the body to make something needed. I have a strong feeling that this is not something that can simply be stimulated to occur, but rather is from adding probiotics.

Dennis

TargeT

11th April 2012, 19:57

Thanks for the reminder. After 3 months on this diet the ONLY sweet thing I am consuming is cinnamon tea. Not sure how palatable Kombucha without any sweetener at all will be... perhaps I could get a living Kombucha mushroom and after every last sugar molecule is gone I could add cinnamon to sweeten slightly? Hmmmm.... that is something I might try in the future. Thanks again.

I'm sure Stevia (or possibly xyletol, though I vastly prefer stevia) would be fine to use (though check and see?)

I don't think this is "THE" answer to health, I think it is "A" answer, and a very important one especially when considering the saying "as above so below" (and the fractal nature of reality).

I spent a month in Mongolia last summer & at the same time was "cutting sugar" from my diet, I think I picked up a new set of internal flora/fauna while there and have noticed significant differences in my body's digestive track since (for the better), I wonder if this is an area/ topic that needs further review, can we "infect" ourselves with beneficial organisms (which it sounds you are trying to encorage the return of, not introduce new ones?) I think this topic (or the twist on it) needs further examination but I am not well equipped to persue it. (or is this basically what "probiotics" are all about? perhaps somoene could isolate the more aggressive ones? maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree....)

I think this is a good focus for everyone (though results will vary) however I also think that supplemental nutrition is key as well (balance, balance!)

You are amazed at the ability for this type of focus to cure diseases that were thought "incurable", I encourage you to look into the work of dr Joel Wallach, he has done the exact same thing from a different approach : nutritional supplements.

I started a thread ( http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?41572-Why-do-couch-potatoes-live-longer-than-athletes-Dr-Joel-Wallach ) on this recently and have read a lot about this man and his approach to preventative health (not symptom relief) and think you would enjoy it based on the contents of this thread.

Eram

11th April 2012, 20:16

These movies might be interesting. This lady used raw food for a long time and is now 70 years of age, wow!!

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ANt4RIFnJH4

Dawn

11th April 2012, 23:13

Here's a little bit more info about how we got into this state.

Growing in a sterile womb as a fetus we are in a sterile environment and have no need for protection of our digestive system or skin. As we are born through the birth canal we are coated with our mothers mucus and bacteria which live within her vagina. This gift goes with us into the world and brings us into a cooperative relationship with the flora and fauna which will make up much of our DNA and will coat us both outside our body on our skin and within our body's digestive tract. These beneficial organisms have been with us for millenia and are our friends, living in symbiosis with our bodies. They protect us from pathogenic organisms, line our gut with mucus to protect us from possible toxins and pathogens that are introduced on what we eat. They even digest our food and provide us with B vitamins and many other vitamins so that we can thrive. They also protect our skin from harmful invaders.

Over millenia we learned how to live with these colonies and even enhance them. In all cultures around the world, until very recently, this was done through the constant introduction of probiotic foods and skin treatments. Refrigeration came in about the time of antibiotics, followed by factory fresh food, and a medical profession who got rich from treating our ailments. This is a very recent thing, about 3 generations ago now.

Prior to then, ketsup was an alive probiotic, beer was alive with beneficial microorganisms, wine was alive, sauerkraut and other fermented vegetables were served with every meal. In some cultures this reliance on living foods has been preserved. For example, in Korea kimchee is still served with every meal. I used to marvel at the flawless skin of even older Korean women in the spa where I went to enjoy saunas and hot baths.

So how are we different today.
1... Babies are born in hospitals. My baby was born through a Cesarian section and never got the benefit of a trip through my birth canal. Then, even though I had requested 'rooming in' in order to nurse her, she was fed bottles of sterilized water and sugar each day without my knowledge. So she did not nurse well and got very little colostrum. How were you handled as an infant? Were you fed soy milk from a plastic bottle with a rubber nipple that was heated in a microwave? Or did you get your first nourishment from the breast of a healthy mother who gifted you with her beneficial flora and fauna so you would have a healthy immune system?

2. We wash our bodies with soaps that contain glycerine and other even more harmful chemicals. None of these are friendly to our bacteria. Even if, like me, you prefer to rinse your body in hot water without soap ... there is still chlorine in it which harms your external bacterial coating. My skin has never been so healthy as during the past year using a whole house filter... even so our town upped the dose of something in the water during the winter months and suddenly we had something getting through our filtering system. Within one day of using this water my skin became dry from head to toe and my hair lost its luster. We have since replaced our filter, but who knows if we are getting all of the chemicals out? Of course, if you are lucky enough to live in an area where you get untreated spring water for your use, you are one of the lucky few.

3. Traditional cultures worldwide sit down to meals that contain probiotics. Nothing is preserved in plastic wrap or soaked in chlorine to prolong its shelf life. And all of these cultures have ways of eating fermented foods rich in friendly bugs. Each time they eat, they add friendly bacteria to their food. These probiotic bacteria, along with the ones already residing in their gut wall, break down their food into usable vitamins and minerals for health.

How does our western world compare? When was the last time you ate living probiotics with each and every meal during a day. Have you read ingredients on store bought pickles and sauerkraut lately? These foods have been filled with poisons and then boiled to kill all life in them for the most part. Even yogurt has sugar added to it or has not been fermented long enough to use up the milk sugars present. When you eat sugary yogurt it actually feeds pathogenic bacteria and is not a healthy food, despite what the manufacturers say. On top of this there are antibiotics in most animal foods because they are fed to our farm animals by agribusiness. And don't even start on GMO foods which have pesticides designed into their genetic makeup.
Many foods, such as 'baby carrots' are actually soaked in chlorine to increase their shelf life. If you consume these sugary little toxin filled vegetable snacks you further weaken your internal garden.

In the middle of this is the medical profession. They are happy to hook us on antibiotics to 'kill' our infections which we get because our bacterial immune system has been harmed. They make a lot of money on a sick population.

One might almost think that the food industry, the medical industry, and the educational system have deliberately led us astray so we would not see what is really happening here. (LOL)

And I'd like to reply to you directly PathWalker. I agree that traumas are at the bottom of many diseases. I have done years of work on mine, and in fact am trained to work with others in releasing trauma. I do not discount that trauma is at the base of much of our imbalance (mine included). And I believe it is because I have just about completed a walk of great courage, out of my old life and into a brand new one, that I have finally allowed myself to see this problem in all its gory detail. No matter what emotional trauma I release I must still, in the end, do the actual work required to set things right. Releasing trauma allows us to see things in a clearer light... and I am sharing with all of you my latest 'Ah Ha(!)' understanding.

This thread is not about fixing me. I'm doing pretty well actually. It is about those who are suffering with this situation, but who have not found this information yet.

Feritciva

12th April 2012, 00:17

This is really great thread! Excellent health info here. Probiotics have become "hot topic" even for mainstream medicine in this last 3-4 years. Some big multinational companies just began to use the same lines Dawn wrote in her posts here!

Kefir is very important food. I always found it tragic as kefir was one of the traditional foodstuff of Ottoman Empire here in Anatolia, but new generations turned to sugar loaded drinks like coke or market-type juices. Luckily kefir is reborn here as lots of people rediscover it's benefits.

As I look back at my life I realize that many of my current health problems stem directly from things doctors have prescribed or done to me and things dentists have done to my mouth. Actually, the entire medical field is based on the idea that we need to kill, sterilize, and obliterate pathogens.

Hey Dawn I am with you about the western scientific medical paradigm.
Yet one has a spiritual path to take, that includes many drama types. Especially health issues.
The first step is take responsibility for your condition. And you are on it big time.

So I stopped blaming the medical profession, I understand and respect their role. Most of them have faith in their service.
We are programmed to relinquish our health responsibility to them. And the tide is reversing big time.
The medical and pharma establishment are in panic. The business stopped growing, and in some places stated to shrink.
It is not that bad after all.

And this is one of the best descriptions about mainstream medicine I've read lately. Being a health professional myself, I agree every word of what you wrote PathWalker.

Greetings from Istanbul,
FC

foreverfan

12th April 2012, 01:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhHe55s9rg&feature=related

Dawn

12th April 2012, 02:07

Hi ForeverFan. Thanks for the video. I ordered goji seeds from a Tibetan monastery last year and have 38 healthy plants growing in old milk cartons now. I will be happy when they begin to produce berries!

Rouleaux (blood sticking together) is very common today. There are many things which almost instantly correct this. One is Mega H, a water additive which adds hydrogen ions to your drinking water and corrects rouleaux within just a few moments. Here is a live blood analysis video about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e27viliFtms

An even simpler way to correct rouleaux is simply allowing your body to come into contact with the earth for 5 to 30 minutes. This is because our insulation from the earth causes a build up of positive ions within our body and has a negative effect on our health. When we are in contact with the earth we are supplied with negative ions, giving us a very different experience of life and removing pain and inflammation with just 30 minutes exposure. I have taken steps to remain 'earthed' for almost 24 hours daily by adding grounding straps to my shoes, a grounding pad to my bed, and another one under my desk. These have helped me be pain free, but they have not addressed the issues being discussed here.

Does this cure autism? Does it cure autoimmune diseases permanently? If it does, does the cure remain in effect if you stop taking Goji or Mega H? That is what is being presented here.. .something simple and ancient which seems to turn around serious disease on a permanent basis.

We need to think of our bodies as countries filled with people, animals, plants, fungus and an entire ecological system. How do we create an eco system that flourishes within our bodies? Perhaps Goji, Mega H, and earthing are an important part of this. Protecting and supporting our living immune system made up of beneficial flora and fauna seems to be the key to vibrant health here.

I love the idea of being able to do this without expensive factory-fresh supporting products. I like the idea that I do not need an expensive probiotic in a bottle made far away from me and shipped for many miles to my grocery store. Not only that, but it turns out that the inexpensive things I make and grow are actually much better at their job than anything created by modern business and sold at the store.

Dennis Leahy

12th April 2012, 02:09

Of course, I don't know the specifics of what Natasha Campbell-McBride recommends in terms of probiotic brands and what the availability is in the US.

I recently decided I'd try to learn to make yogurt, and for me (vegan), I would try almond milk. So, I went hunting for a "yogurt starter" that is vegan. I just ran across "ProGurt" and was astounded by the ridiculously high price. This is most certainly not something you could eat with your everyday breakfast. The culture packs cost $120 for 5 packs! (I think about $4/serving!), which I think would make 5 liters.

(They also say it could not be used to keep batches going - you'd have to buy it each time.)

I'd rather not link to their website, but I am curious if anyone knows about it. They claim one trillion CFU per liter. I think the probiotic capsules I am taking are 5 billion, so maybe you only need a teaspoon of this magical stuff. Anyone heard of it?

Dennis

Dawn

12th April 2012, 02:32

Wow Dennis, that IS expensive! OMG! You can make your own Rejuvilac and ginger bug for pennies... perhaps that is an answer for you if you wish to remain vegan. I used to be vegan, but feel much better with some cultured dairy, eggs, and seafood in my diet.

Rejuvilac just requires some grain. Although rye and wheat are most commonly used, almost any grain can be used this way. You don't need a starter culture because the correct one is already coating their seeds. I am using the sprouted recipe here currently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e27viliFtms

Ginger bug is another probiotic drink that I have 'cooking' in my pantry. This relies on capturing 'wild' flora and fauna in a ginger water to make a very healthy probiotic without a commercial starter. Here's a recipe for this: http://www.holistickid.com/how-to-make-a-ginger-bug/

Apparently the 'good guy' flora and fauna is used by almost all plants to protect themselves from pathogens. That is why cabbage makes perfect sauerkraut without a starter culture, and most veges will ferment the same way (though cabbage is the easiest). The varieties of lactobacillus acidophillus out there in the world are busy coating everything and protecting it so that it can remain healthy. I suddenly realized just a couple of days ago that overhead watering with chlorinated water takes a lot of the natural protection off my vegetaqble leaves. And watering the soil with my city water is not good for soil bacteria either. (my water is chlorinated). So we are putting together a filtration system for our vegetable garden to supplement the water structuring we do with magnets. Understanding the world, in light of protecting my healthy companions, changes a lot about how I am seeing things.

Dennis Leahy

12th April 2012, 02:45

... This relies on capturing 'wild' flora and fauna ... I have heard of that concept with breadmaking (or maybe it was sourdough?) - capturing the wild spores from the outdoor air. Gawd, I feel like such a 'city kid' at times, even though I grew up as a 'country kid.' All of the folk-lore, the home-spun wisdom that can only be gathered by hanging out with folk that are steeped in the traditions.

Dennis

Dawn

12th April 2012, 02:59

Hey Dennis, you answered me while I was researching for you. How about Almond Milk Kefer? Turns out it is better for implantation than yogurt anyway. And the taste is very similar. I did not realize that the 'right strains' would be self perpetuating and there would be no need to re-implant them. This link is excellent ... for information about kefer:

http://www.rebeccawood.com/food-as-medicine/kefir/

I didn't realize that living kefir grains are the way to go here, and nothing else is true kefir. So the kefir I've been culturing, using a 'starter colony' from store kefir as a base is not the health benefit that REAL kefir is. Apparently the FDA makes companies pasteurize everything to kill the bacteria, and only allows them to inject a few strains back in. Well, no matter, there are places to buy the 'real' original live culture grains.. which last a lifetime. I just bought some from a local person in my community offering them on Craigslist. She got hers from ebay. They smell totally different than the fake kefir I've been culturing from the store bought stuff and I am starting them tonight. She gave me a link to some amazing info about Kefir. (wow! I had no idea!)

http://www.orhaolam.com/uploads/KefirInShort.pdf

Dennis Leahy

12th April 2012, 03:23

Connecting with Sauce

13th April 2012, 00:42

One might almost think that the food industry, the medical industry, and the educational system have deliberately led us astray so we would not see what is really happening here. (LOL)

I am sure 'they' know what they are doing... All this info is known to them, they have royal dairies and organic farms etc...

Now this was the show about Kefir's worth a listen.
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/make-kefir-easily-at-home-marlyin-kefirlady-09-28-09/

We also make fermented apple cyder vinegar which if done correctly has mother within it. The first batch took ~6 weeks to create the mother naturally... then this is used to produce ACV in ~1-2 weeks using the mother and by just juicing apples.

I think jucing has a part within cleansing especially green juices as these are very low in sugars and too many juices of fruits will mean fructose without the fibre and this isn't too good for the liver (bitter truth sugar video).

This is another UK Dr worth investigating http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health/dr-sarah-myhill-empowering-you-to-recover-your-health-january-23-2012/

I think gut health is a key part of the puzzle to great health.

I'm so lucky to have a Russian wife who was fortunate enough to have this practical knowledge from their village. I keep telling her to document it and sell some of our spare kefir grains on ebay with a how to guide...

Dawn

13th April 2012, 07:31

Connecting with Sauce (I LOVE your online name, by the way), thank you for taking the time to add your above post. I spent some time listening to the 2 interviews you referenced tonight. I found it interesting, and frustrating to listen to Dr. MyHill's interview because, in light of the information presented in this thread, she has her understanding backwards in many cases.

In reading the GAPS information the key, that has been creating the deep healing of incurable diseases such as Autism and schizophrenia, is a healthy Gut flora and fauna. With this understanding as a basis, all allergies disappear along with arthritis and many other diseases, which have become prevalent since the advent of modern antibiotics, refrigeration, chlorinated water, and factory fresh foods.

Dr MyHill espouses an opposite understanding. It is her belief that food allergies CAUSE leaky gut... not that a damaged gut flora has allowed pathogens to grow and form in the lining of the gut, which then create poisons that enter the body. With Dr. MyHill's approach, everything depends on allergy testing and restricting the diet of her cliients. As she speaks, her information is complicated and difficult to follow. Her clients are dependent on her tests and so on to find out what is wrong with them and what to avoid eating. This is, in my opinion, an outdated viewpoint which has been shown to be faulty in light of the discoveries noted in the GAPS information presented on this thread.

With Dr. MyHills approach people are dependent on never eating the foods they are allergic to again. They are also dependent on vitamin B12 shots, and adding acid to their stomachs in order to digest their food. She mentions the danger of fermenting food in an upper GI tract which 'should be sterile'. She also recommends using a nebulizer, so that minerals and nutrition can be absorbed through the lungs. She has no understanding that allergies are caused by an imbalance in gut flora/fauna or that lack of nutrition is directly due to an absence of friendly micro-organisms.

With the GAPS diet the 'cure' is permanent. There is no need for food supplementation, because the restoration of the gut flora and fauna takes care of the issue by manufacturing these supplements for their host. No leaky gut occurs after the first 2-3 months on the GAPS program, because enough of the gut lining has been restored during that time to 'seal the digestive' system and protect the body from toxins and pathogenic organisms in the gut. After approximately 2 years all food allergies disappear as vitality and health are fully restored. The client can then return to a diet that is healthy and unrestricted (but not to the modern diet filled with chemicals which are poisonous like most processed foods)

The GAPS program is truly based on information which goes against many of the modern understandings of health. However, the proof that it is real is in the results obtained with it.

Frankly, I have been very surprised at the level of resistance by many people posting on this thread to this new information. Further, I am aware that many people posting here did not even bother to listen to the information in the starting post of this thread. This is sad, however all I can do is lay the information out for all to read... I cannot make anyone take the time to understand it.

In your case, Connecting to Sauce, I know you are aware of the value of the GAPS information, at least in part. You are very lucky to have a wife who is familiar with the 'old country ways' and who has brought into your home living foods. Thank your for sharing these links.

David Hughes

13th April 2012, 09:02

Hi Dawn,

Thanks for them links. I've been living in Korea for almost 4 years now so I was very interested to hear Dr. Mercola talking about the basis of all fermented veggies being cabbage. As you know, Koreans eat 'Kim Chi' every day, and its served as a side dish with every meal - breakfast, lunch and dinner. In the time i've been living here i've never once actually received a good explanation from a Korean as to why exactly kim chi is considered to be so beneficial.

Kawmapsuhmneedah for the info!

kanishk

13th April 2012, 09:58

PS: I have taken rounds of every single herb mentioned in the above post. They caused die off, however they did not address the underlying issues. In fact many of them made the problem worse because they acted as natural antibiotics and further killed off gut organisms, both bad and good. In this way my problem became worse over my lifetime.

Similarly like natural antibiotics does MMS can also kill gut flora??

Because both good and bad gut organisms are anaerobic. And according to Jim Humble MMS kill anaerobic bacteria and viruses.

As well as i want to know weather it is good to use probiotics available in pharmaceutical stores?

Connecting with Sauce

13th April 2012, 12:59

conk

13th April 2012, 14:55

From Dr. David Williams' newsletter Alternatives:

There are four important health benefits of traditional fermented foods that clearly explain why they are so crucial to optimal digestive health:

Benefit #1: Traditional fermented foods help balance the production of stomach acid. Fermented foods have the unique ability to ease digestive discomfort related to having either too much or too little stomach acid. When the production of hydrochloric acid by the stomach is low, fermented foods help increase the acidity of gastric juices. On the other hand, when the stomach produces too much acid, fermented foods help protect the stomach and intestinal lining.

As we age, our production of the digestive juices and enzymes required for proper digestion begin to decrease. Eating foods like sauerkraut, buttermilk, and pickled vegetables can help make up for this loss. The key is to eat a small portion of traditional fermented foods on a very regular basis. Once or twice daily with meals is best.

Benefit #2: Traditional fermented foods help the body produce acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is a neurotransmitter. In simple terms, it facilitates the transmission of nerve impulses. In practical terms, it helps increase the movement of the bowel, and can alleviate constipation problems. It also helps improve the release of digestive juices and enzymes from the stomach, the pancreas, and the gallbladder. So by helping your body produce acetylcholine, fermented foods act as potent digestive aids.

Benefit #3: Traditional fermented foods are beneficial for people with diabetes. In addition to improving pancreatic function, which is of great benefit to diabetics, the carbohydrates in lactic acid–fermented foods have been broken down or "pre-digested." As a result, they do not place an extra burden on the pancreas, unlike ordinary carbohydrates.

Benefit #4: Traditional fermented foods produce numerous unknown compounds that destroy and inhibit the growth of pathogenic bacteria. Many pathogenic forms of bacteria are sensitive to acidic environments. This is true of both cholera and typhoid. In the early 1950s, during an epidemic of typhoid fever in Europe, reports emerged showing that fresh sauerkraut was an effective agent for killing the bacteria. More recently, German scientists were working with a strain of lactic acid bacteria found in sourdough bread, and discovered that it seemed to be more effective than other strains at killing microbes. In early lab results, it quickly eliminated the super-bugs currently resistant to most antibiotics.

The concept of using naturally occurring "bugs" to eliminate harmful bacteria is an idea that seems to be finally catching on in the scientific community, although it's still baffling to me why conventional medicine hasn't been able to fully grasp or accept this concept. Obviously, the pharmaceutical companies stand to make a lot more money selling antibiotics and other medications than recommending a daily dose of fermented cabbage.

********************************************************

Also, from Dr. Williams:

The Rise in Allergies and
Asthma
Our society has also seen a
tremendous increase in asthma
and all types of airborne and
contact allergies. These problems
are becoming more and more
prevalent in childhood and now
continue into adulthood. A large
percentage of young adults suffer
from chronic rhinitis, postnasal
drip, sinus congestion, bronchitis,
etc. Previously these only
rarely occurred in some children,
and most outgrew them as their
immune systems adapted. That
is no longer the case since their
bacterial landscape has been
permanently altered.
Even most doctors don’t
understand that our nasal cavity
has its own specific population
of bacterial flora. The nasal and
oral cavities are the gateways to
the lungs. Until recently, it was
believed that the lower airways
were actually sterile, but that’s
not the case. British scientists
at Imperial College in London,
have just revealed that our lungs
are loaded with various forms of
bacteria. Several seem to be overabundant
in asthma patients. And,
it’s not too surprising to learn it
was these exact same species of
bacteria that have been cultured
from throat swabs taken from
asthma-prone babies. triggering additional attacks from
the immune system.
All of this can very often be
linked back to dysbacteriosis. The
bacterial flora of the colon, as I’ve
detailed in the past, is the body’s
second immune system.

Hermeticus

13th April 2012, 17:23

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/can-you-ever-cure-autism-379991

A mother claims she helped with her children's autism

I live in Utah which has the highest percentage of the occurrence of autism in the country and perhaps the world. I'm sharing this with my friend who has an autistic child.

Dawn

13th April 2012, 19:13

I am so grateful that the tone of this thread has finally turned into a discussion of the topic and questions about it. I was feeling really sad that so very few Avalon members were open to learning about this information! Thank you Conk for adding wonderful information here! Thank you Tyler Dyrdun for your comments from Korea!

I'd like to answer a couple of questions that came up and correct some mis-information:

Kanishk: Similarly like natural antibiotics does MMS can also kill gut flora??

Because both good and bad gut organisms are anaerobic. And according to Jim Humble MMS kill anaerobic bacteria and viruses.

As well as i want to know weather it is good to use probiotics available in pharmaceutical stores?

Here's my understanding of the probiotic situation. Most (if not all) commercial probiotics are, for the most part, dead when they arrive in dessicated form. These organisms do not appreciate being dried, powdered, bottled, and stored that way for a length of time before being swallowed. So, taking commercial probiotics is a very inefficient and expensive way to create a healthy gut. In fact, this is more of a prophylactic if your gut is already healthy, but wont really do anything to turn around an existing imbalance, such as most us in the modern culture have.

Did you know that scientists have experimented with injecting kefir (made from traditional grains) with e coli bacteria and could not find any e coli at all the next day in the kefir? Apparently the beneficial bacteria in kefir are so aggressive that this virulent pathogen just cannot grow in the milk when competing with them.

About MMS. I am reviewing my own attitude to MMS at this time. I have heard Jum Humble directly questioned about the effect of gut flora. He was caught off guard and stumbled and mumbled as he answered, which tells me that he had not really considered the matter carefully. His answer was, "well I always advise people to take probiotics daily". So, I am guessing that MMS kills 'em all. This might explain why I am having strong die off reactions as I go through this protochol... about 3 years ago I cured myself of breast cancer with, among other things, a 4 month course of MMS. Yet, in my ignorance, I used only commercial probiotics to rebuild my gut flora. In light of the information presented in this thread it is very likely that my actions saved my life, but compromised my bacterial immune system severely.

Each night before bed I am in the habit of brushing my teeth and rinsing my mouth with a pretty strong solution of fresh MMS. Last night both my partner and I had the same thought, and did something totally different. The bacteria in Kefir are known to kill off h-pylori, thus curing ulcers. These same bacteria are responsible for dental carries and gum disease. So last night we used whey strained from our home made kefir to dip our tooth brushes in, and as a mouth wash. We also put some on a paper towel and 'washed' our bodies in whey from head to toe with the moist towel. We plan to continue this practice, since these bacteria have been shown to out-compete many skin pathogens. This is a new way of thinking for me... to enhance my life by focusing on healthy lifeforms, instead of focusing on killing lifeforms I do not like. Life instead of death.

Connecting With Sauce: At the amazing health talk on Tuesday adding the probiotics (the best you can afford) to the fermented cabbage/veggies will grow new ones and strengthen the power of the capsules.

This is based on a misunderstanding of just how wonderful 'wild' forms of lactose-bacillius are. The reason cabbage is used as a base for most fermented vegies is that cabbage leaves are naturally coated with millions and millions of lactose-bacilli organisms naturally. These organisms are on all vegetables as a natural protective layer, but they are especially prevalent on cabbages. I don't think it is harmful to add commercial strains, however the wild ones will likely out compete them and you will end up with sauerkraut that is filled with these wonderful 'wildlings'. So, you could save yourself some money and skip the step of trying to outdo mother nature by purchasing factory designed probiotics.

This entire concept is so amazing. It is free of the need for big pharma, labratories, man-made improvements, or expensive supplements. This is a true step towards the freedom so many on Avalon long for.

Marianne

13th April 2012, 19:25

Dawn! Thank you for this thread, sorry I haven't posted; I have read posts mostly at the beginning of the thread, and look forward to catching up soon.

Conk, thanks for the great info.

I just got 'Nourishing Traditions' -- on my lunch break, and can't wait to get into it when I get home.

Found a recipe online for rejuvulac made with quinoa... I have that, and wheat berries, but not rye, so will try it with what I have.

conk

13th April 2012, 19:42

"Honey, are you coming to bed? I'm feeling amourous".
"Yes dear, right after I rub all this bacteria over my body"
"Er, ah, nevermind....zzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

Marianne, I eat quinoa daily. Could you post the recipe or a link?

Next month Dr. Williams is publishing the second part to his essay on digestive health. It will contain information on how best to replenish our gut flora. He writes, "...and then explain very specific (and some quite controversial) techniques that you can use to restore essential microflora. It's an essential step in allowing your body to use its inate ability to heal itself". I'll share it when received.

I remember a raw foodist (Vanderplantz (sp?)) who placed an infants stool (yes, poo) into the colon of an extremely ill person who could no longer swallow. That and placing raw honey and raw milk under their tongue was enough for them to regain some strength and begin eating. The sick person then ate raw meat, raw dairy, raw honey, raw butter and recovered 100%. The baby's poo was extremely rich in bacteria! A rather dramatic approach, but successful. "Hey doc, I need a 'script for some baby dookie".

Marianne

13th April 2012, 20:40

Marianne, I eat quinoa daily. Could you post the recipe or a link?

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/raw-food-diet/raw-recipes/how-to-make-rejuvelac/

leavesoftrees

13th April 2012, 21:55

This is based on a misunderstanding of just how wonderful 'wild' forms of lactose-bacillius are. The reason cabbage is used as a base for most fermented vegies is that cabbage leaves are naturally coated with millions and millions of lactose-bacilli organisms naturally. These organisms are on all vegetables as a natural protective layer, but they are especially prevalent on cabbages. I don't think it is harmful to add commercial strains, however the wild ones will likely out compete them and you will end up with sauerkraut that is filled with these wonderful 'wildlings'. So, you could save yourself some money and skip the step of trying to outdo mother nature by purchasing factory designed probiotics..

Good idea to use kefir for skin and tooth cleaning

I have come across a recipe for sauerkraut where you do add kefir to the cabbage

http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/recipes/kimchi.php

there is lots of good information on this site

Dawn

14th April 2012, 07:33

From: TRUE BOVINE COLOSTRUM for the Practitioner By: Alfred Fox, Ph. D. & Anthony Kleinsmith, Ph.D.
Medical research has shown that the inflammatory process responsible for leaky gut syndrome can be initiated in many different ways, including the following.
 Excess ingestion of alcohol and/or drinks containing caffeine.
 Continuous use of antibiotics resulting in destruction of the inherent bacterial flora in the intestine.
 Ingestion of foods contaminated by certain bacteria or parasites.
 Routine ingestion of corticosteroids, such as prednisone, and/or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs like aspirin or ibuprofen.
 Consumption of large quantities of highly refined carbohydrates, such as the sugar found in candy, cookies, cakes and soft drinks.

No wonder both the GAPS diet and the Rosedale diet are so restrictive with anything that digests as sugar! It too can create leaky gut.

Today I tasted my 'gingerbug' for the first time. Delicious! I also got to try the Kefir I made from fresh non-commercial kefir grains. It is delicious and VERY different from commercial Kefir available off the grocery shelf in California. The strain I obtained has the piquant taste of yogurt with the effervescence of soda water mixed in. It feels as though it 'sparkles' on the tongue.

And, as often happens in life when you change your understanding... my new frequency pulled into my life an invitation to dinner where fresh home made Kimchee was served. I especially liked the sour green apples which had been fermented along with cabbage, garlic, hot peppers, bell peppers and other mystery vegetables. I'm definitely going to add some sour apples to my first attempt at Kimchee which should be happening later this week sometime.

My sister, who lived in Korea for 7 years, related to me that she came back to the US as a thin healthy person, yet within 2 years in the US had gained 40 pounds and was experiencing inflammation. She never realized this change may have been due to lack of healthy gut flora. In Korea she loved kimchee so much that she ate it at every meal, and even as a snack. In the US she was unable to find kimchee, or even living sauerkraut at the grocery stores where she shopped. Of course she did not realize how important it was until now. Things will be changing in her life now that she realizes the importance of this information.

Thanks for the humor Conk. My partner has mentioned the Vanderplanitz books over and over to me. I am glad we have alternatives to poop and rotten meat for restoration of our gut flora. However his information is very good according to my partner. Recommended Reading:

We Want to Live
The Recipe for Living Without Disease, the Primal Diet
by Aajonus Vonderpanitz.

I haven't read them, but I've been told they are 'must reads'. I also understand he has a free newsletter you can sign up for.

Thanks for the links Maryanne and Leaves of Trees.

I must go now to feed my gingerbug, mix up today's batch of rejuvilac, burp my sauerkraut, and strain my kefir. After which I'm going to brush my teeth with bacteria and do my evening ablutions with a towel soaked in whey. Suddenly my life is full of life.

Dawn

14th April 2012, 08:21

Important info about teeth brushing! I am putting this entry to add information I was unaware of about teeth brushing! I was just checking recent posts on one of my old threads which has resurrected itself. There is wonderful new information there.

I learned that what I am doing by brushing my teeth with whey may damage tooth enamel rather quickly. Sounds like a mouthwash of whey after cleaning my teeth would be great, but brushing with it will likely result in loss of enamel! Here is a wonderful post written by Seikou-Kishi for you to check out on this topic:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29298-Healthy-Teeth-Or-How-Toothpaste-Causes-Most-Dental-Problems&p=465236&viewfull=1#post465236

And if you would like a commercial product which is actually designed to add healthy bacteria to your mouth, while also stimulating re-growth of gums and teeth here is an excellent post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29298-Healthy-Teeth-Or-How-Toothpaste-Causes-Most-Dental-Problems&p=449436&viewfull=1#post449436

ThePythonicCow

14th April 2012, 08:22

The strain I obtained has the piquant taste of yogurt with the effervescence of soda water mixed in

Regarding the effervescence ... did you ferment your kefir with a closed lid, or a lid that allowed air to escape (such as a cloth or paper towel)?

I vaguely recall reading that a closed lid will cause the effervescence ... I could easily be wrong.

Dawn

14th April 2012, 08:24

Hi Paul, I read that too... and this batch did have a closed lid now that I think of it. I highly recommend this ... it is delicious!

Connecting with Sauce

15th April 2012, 02:14

Our kefir grows in a glass jar with a kitchen sheet over the top (porous) held by elastic band. Also the first 2-3 batches will be not the best as the kefir settles down and gets accustomed to the milk. Ideally use raw milk, we use Tesco finest milk which although pasterised is NOT homoganised... getting raw milk in UK is difficult ad we are not in a dairy area.

I bought some more cabbages today and we have 3 large containers fermenting and a few too many cabages left... we're running out of jars :) we dd get some extra cultures which were added to the cabages too.

Just a Question... What does Ozone do to these bacteria? I drank some ozonated water earlier today and I also think urine has some hydrogen peroxide in it... a similar molecule.

Dawn

16th April 2012, 03:29

Conneting With Sauce: Just a Question... What does Ozone do to these bacteria? I drank some ozonated water earlier today and I also think urine has some hydrogen peroxide in it... a similar molecule.

What an interesting question. I imagine it would kill them, It sterilizes almost anything it comes in contact with (the ozone, not the urine- LOL) but we'll see if anyone has this answer. I drink home made ozonated water on days that I have big die off toxcicity, when bacterial poisons bother my body. It helps a lot to mitigate symptoms, as the ozone goes into the blood stream, and combines with toxic substances there.

Thanks for the info on your kefir with a porous sheet. I guess I got over-enthusiastic. I now have 3 fresh kefir grain strains that I'm brewing. My partner bought one form ebay, I bought one from the Amazon.com, and then I just couldn't wait for them to arrive by mail and bought more from my local Craigslist connection. I've decided to culture all 3 separately to see if I can taste the difference. The amounts that came in the mail were pretty tiny and will take some time to build up to a large enough size to make any quantity of kefir. They are each sitting about 1/8 cup of milk in the cupboard. However the local grains I got are healthy and producing very tasty kefir indeed.

Today my home made rejuvilac was ready and I combined it with the ginger bug for a very tasty and refreshing soda-like drink. My stomach really liked it a lot. I also harvested my purple carrots and put them into fermenting jars. They have too much sugar in them for me right now, so I can't eat them directly, however the lactose-bacillus culture will love their sugar and return them to me as healthy fermented living. food.

Here's a simple home cost saving tip for anyone wishing to attempt home made fermented food. After looking online at all the costly ways to make fermented food that does not risk mold and so on we made our own air lock caps for a very small price.

****Here's what they look like when someone else makes them, but the price is quite high: http://www.amazon.com/Homesteaders-Supply-Pickle-Pro-vegetable-Fermenting/dp/B006JMJJP0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334546582&sr=8-1

**** Here's how I made them. I bought plastic wide mouth mason jar lids (available anywhere canning supplies are sold), drilled a hole in the top, inserted the air lock shown below, and used super glue to make a firm connection. Voila, my own air lock jar lid for about $1.25 total cost. Here's the link for the air locks if you'd like to try your hand:
http://www.amazon.com/Piece-Plastic-Airlock-Sold-sets/dp/B000E60G2W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334546863&sr=8-1

David Hughes

17th April 2012, 04:06

Hi Dawn,

Did you make the kimchi? I've been wandering around Seoul the past few days observing the glut of kimchi earthenware pots that there are. All around the city you can see 20-50L pots on balconies, apartment roof tops, and around the sides of almost every building. Yesterday I asked the lady who i buy my veg from at the market if she had any kimchi. She said she did of course, so I asked her how much did it cost to buy per kilo? She laughed at me and said that it was free. She then told me to follow her over to a huge walk-in fridge that contained 2 x 50L pots. She gave me about 5 kilos worth. Happy days.

I also notice that 2 ingredients often used when making it are garlic and ginger. I started thinking about how ingredients like raw garlic and ginger are considered to have antibiotic effects but I would say that rather than kill everything (both good and bad) like prescription antibiotics do, they specifically kill harmful flora and help prevent its future growth. As this is happening, the probiotics should be added to the diet – a small helping of kimchi or sauerkraut once or twice a day should be sufficient. It’s all about reaching the right balance and just as too much sugar or wheat etc can lead to the growth of harmful gut flora, too much fermented food is no use either. I note that a 2005 study in South Korea found that when eaten in large quantities, kimchi increases the risk of gastric cancer.

I'd also note this piece i found on Wikipedia:

"Alaska has witnessed a steady increase of cases of botulism since 1985.[11] It has more cases of botulism than any other state in the United States of America. This is caused by the traditional Eskimo practice of allowing animal products such as whole fish, fish heads, walrus, sea lion and whale flippers, beaver tails, seal oil, birds, etc., to ferment for an extended period of time before being consumed. The risk is exacerbated when a plastic container is used for this purpose instead of the old-fashioned method, a grass-lined hole, as the botulinum bacteria thrive in the anaerobic conditions created by the air-tight enclosure in plastic.[11]"

Dawn

17th April 2012, 04:45

Thank you Tyler. I had no idea about the 'grass lined hole'. According to my sister, who lived in Korea for 10 years, Americans were careful of Kimchee with fish or animal products in it. It was known that you could become really ill from these. Vegetable kimchee is considered safe however.

Fermenting vegetables in an airtight container is actually a good idea as this discourages a type of mold that is not dangerous but can create an 'off taste' in the finished product. Personally I would not use a plastic container for anything that holds food or water for any length of time. All my current personal brine fermenting efforts are either in earthen crocks or glass containers. All of them have some type of airlock which allows fermentation bubbles composed of Co2 to escape but prevents O2 from entry. This prevents the growth of mold on top of the fermenting vegetables, which can create an 'off flavor' if not cleaned off. However, many years ago I made my first batch in a large open ceramic crock with a heavy plate on top weighted down by a brick. This traditional American Pioneer method keeps everything below the brine level, and the resulting 'kraut was delicious.

Other types of fermenting products such as rejuvilac and kefir use loose lids or even fabric covers which allow air to circulate freely. These are all traditional foods with no known record of danger when cultured this way.

My sister has many stories of women gifting kimchee to everyone who would like some. In Korea, the quality of kimchee is said to reflect the quality of the woman who makes it. It is thought that the women who makes it puts something of herself into each batch. I think the story of your gift is lovely!!! Thank you for sharing. And thanks for the information of too much Kimchee. From what I can tell, red pepper also seems to play a big role in Kimchee.

I am making my first batch of kimchee as soon as my new 7.5 Liter crock arrives in the mail sometime during the next week. Right now I've used up all my available containers. Lots of enthusiasm, but not enough containers to hold it all (LOL).

David Hughes

17th April 2012, 05:15

Worth mentioning also that when using salt to make the kimchi or sauerkraut, i'd highly recommend using a good quality salt like himalayan rock salt as opposed to refined table salt.

Connecting with Sauce

17th April 2012, 14:59

On this subject. This show is worth listening to:

http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health/professor-don-huber-messing-with-mother-nature-the-perverse-effects-of-gmos-april-5-2012/

THE MORNING SHOW
with
Patrick Timpone
Professor Don Huber
Agricultural Scientist and Expert in Microbial Ecology
April 5, 2012
We’ve been waiting a long time to talk with Professor Huber, an agricultural scientist and expert in microbial ecology, but it was worth the wait. One hour turned into two so get prepared for one of the most important and spookiest shows of the year.
Professor Huber starts with explaining and describing RoundUp, a broad spectrum herbicide used to clean up weeds and is the most abused chemical in agriculture. He then moves into explaing RoundUp Ready crops which are genetically modified to withstand RoundUp. Why are they a threat to agriculture and our health? The answers go deep and Prof. Huber explains it well. On January 16, 2011, Prof. Huber wrote a letter to Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack with information about a newly discovered ‘pathogen that appears to significantly impact the health of plants, animals, and probably human beings’, which is found in higher concentrations of Round Up Ready soybeans and corn. Click here to view this informative letter. Prof. Huber spends the second hour explaining how these genetically engineered crops affect our digestion, the gut flora and our overall health. Please take the time to send this podcast to at least one person you care about. This subject needs to be talked about again and again and again as we have the power to stop the destruction of natural food by not participating in the consumption of this food and demanding the labeling of products in which this food is included.

********

It discusses how GMO food destroys the good bacteria in the stomach and also modifies the internal flora...

Rainbowbrite

19th April 2012, 17:11

Hello Dawn and everyone who's contributed to this fantastic thread! Many thanks to all for the wealth of information here.

I think i'm ready to give this a shot and would like to share my experiences with you all. I have a family member who is experiencing some serious intestinal/gut symptoms, i believe that this stems from a lack of good flora in their gut, and after reading this thread i'm considering or rather reconsidering diet too - fascinating stuff. This imbalance, we think, occured as a result of them taking very heavy doses of antibiotics several years ago as prescribed by the doctor to deal with 'Bells Palsy'... Which is thought to be a virus - so why the hefty doses of antibiotics? Well, anyway, that experience was a big part of the wake up call :)... However they've not felt totally well since then. So, our thinking is that giving this a try really makes sense! We're all very excited by it!

I have an archaic P.C. and slow connection speed, as such i do struggle to watch video, so whilst i wait for books to arrive i have a couple of questions and would greatly appreciate any input!

Ok, so, cutting out carbs and sugars is key - i do have a simple working knowledge of nutrition and as a result (i know carbs are everywhere!) i'm more than a little baffled by what is a carb and what isn't! My family eats a 'healthy' diet with plenty of fresh fruits and veggies and i'd really like to know (other than the obvious potato) what veg is ok and low/no carb - bearing in mind that i'm a total newbie to this. It's things like sweet potato that are confusing me, i've read previously that these contain 'good' carbs - is there such a thing? Also where do pulses stand in the scheme of things? Dawn mentions earlier in the thread that this diet is seriously restricted, could anyone provide a link to a text document/site that the basic foods are outlined in - sorry in advance if i've missed one! Is the food eaten on the diet similar to what is eaten on the Paleo/caveman diet? I do have some information on that. Also if anyone could share with me what a typical daily menu would look like - that would be very helpful!

I've also read up on sauerkraut and how to make it - so enthusiastic about this! I preserve a lot of food that we grow and forage for, so this fermentation method makes total sense - just need an appropriate container and i'm good to go! One thing has struck me has been the shift in thinking i've already experienced - away from killing the bad stuff, into nurturing the good stuff :) I've seen it as looking at our bodies as a garden and using complimentary planting to achieve desired results.

Thanks again!

Dawn

21st April 2012, 04:42

Rainbow Bright: Ok, so, cutting out carbs and sugars is key - i do have a simple working knowledge of nutrition and as a result (i know carbs are everywhere!) i'm more than a little baffled by what is a carb and what isn't! My family eats a 'healthy' diet with plenty of fresh fruits and veggies and i'd really like to know (other than the obvious potato) what veg is ok and low/no carb - bearing in mind that i'm a total newbie to this. It's things like sweet potato that are confusing me, i've read previously that these contain 'good' carbs - is there such a thing?

I just checked online and this site is very comprehensive: http://www.gapsdiet.com/The_Diet.html

I have just read it carefully and there are some conflicts there which I don't think the book would allow. Starchy legumes like lentils and peas are very questionable for me ...at least to start for the first 2-3 months until the gut is sealed with a lining of friendly bacteria. Also, the above link refrences the allowance of a couple of hard liquors, gin and vodka, which I know digest as pure sugar ... so those are not really on the diet either. Seems like the author of the above site thinks drinking is a necessity of life and has tried to include appropriate drinks which blend with this philosophy.... I'm sure the original author of GAPS does not include these.

I personally started with the Rosedale diet... which is very strict about carbohydrates, and then added the probiotic foods such as sauerkraut, kefir and Rejuvilac after coming in contact with the GAPS information. This is more restricted than the above site would suggest. This is, I believe, more in line with what the GAPS author had in mind: http://drrosedale.com/healthplan.htm

Update on my personal progress: My partner and I have just completed our check up with Stefan Voin, our healer of choice these days. We do this occasionally as he is a long drive away, and very expensive for our budgets. He narrows his plan of treatment by dowsing with an aura-meter, followed up by treatment with a complex set up which includes radionics, crystals, LEDs, and plasma tubes. I use him because what he does works well. Anyway, he commented in our sessions that he was totally amazed that my partner and I had ZERO pathogenic gut organisms. He was amazed because he never sees this in his work, and has never seen this with us in previous sessions. He did find pathogenic organisms INside our bodies however. This is exactly what the GAPS diet predicts. The GAPS diet says that the gut will become totally healthy within 2-3 months, and that the body's immune system will then begin to clean up interior infections, pathogens, and toxins which are a result of the previously pathogenic gut situation. That is why the GAPS program takes 2 full years.

Rainbowbrite

21st April 2012, 11:47

I just checked online and this site is very comprehensive: http://www.gapsdiet.com/The_Diet.html

I have just read it carefully and there are some conflicts there which I don't think the book would allow. Starchy legumes like lentils and peas are very questionable for me ...at least to start for the first 2-3 months until the gut is sealed with a lining of friendly bacteria. Also, the above link refrences the allowance of a couple of hard liquors, gin and vodka, which I know digest as pure sugar ... so those are not really on the diet either. Seems like the author of the above site thinks drinking is a necessity of life and has tried to include appropriate drinks which blend with this philosophy.... I'm sure the original author of GAPS does not include these.

I personally started with the Rosedale diet... which is very strict about carbohydrates, and then added the probiotic foods such as sauerkraut, kefir and Rejuvilac after coming in contact with the GAPS information. This is more restricted than the above site would suggest. This is, I believe, more in line with what the GAPS author had in mind: http://drrosedale.com/healthplan.htm

Hello Dawn - thank you so much for this information and for taking the time - it's cleared up a lot of confusion for me. We had the first day yesterday with no carbs or sugars and feeling good, no cravings as yet but it's very early days! Will post udates on here - my family member is going for tests during the first week in May which will include a colonoscopy :S So will see what happens there.

In my opinion zero alcohol is the only way to go with this and the way i see it is that if you're going to do this then you have to DO it :) At least for the first stage. I've taken on board your tip about cinnamon and it's help with dealing with sugar cravings and have stocked up. Also i'm pleased to see that the veggies grown at home are not off the cards.

Fantastic news about your partner and yourself - what great results? And it's good to get that confirmation too, thanks for sharing.

Carolin

22nd April 2012, 13:30

Dawn I could kiss you!!!!:kiss: Yesterday I was doing some work etherically, among which, working on my food intolerances/allergies and then I popped into PA and saw this thread.

Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride makes perfect sense. How did we as a society get so far off the mark. The Rosedale and Gap diets are almost identical to the paleo/caveman diet I had been on for about 8 months. I fell off the wagon with a thud, probably because of the amount of meat involved, as an ex vegetarian it was hard to swallow (literally). I felt great while on it though but wasn't doing any probiotic therapy. Well today, thanks to you, I am back at it.

I found this extended version of the interview you shared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJkS3ZBqos

I thank you again from the bottom of my gut!!:thank_you2:
Carolin

Dawn

22nd April 2012, 18:08

Thanks Carolyn for the great report... Yes, I know what you mean about the meat. Luckily the program I started on (Rodedale diet) did not ask for a lot of protien, in fact it is somewhat restricted because the body ends up digesting it to receive sugar and therefore the amount is measured.

3.5 months after starting the diet, and 3 weeks after adding kefir: Here is something really interesting. After adding the home made Kefir and a 1/4 c of sauerkraut daily we found our appetites were totally tamed. It is interesting to me to watch all of our cravings leave... and to also watch the amount of food we eat drop dramatically. We are perhaps eating 10% - 25% of the quantity we were when we started.

Friendly Bacteria are feeding me? If the symbiotic organisms are indeed making vitamins, bio-available minerals, amino acids, and a variety of polysaccharides for our bodies, as shown in research, this would explain the dramatic reduction in our food consumption. We are simply not hungry because we are being fed by our internal garden! We find that an 8oz glass of kefir consumed in the morning (when I harvest it and feed the culture) can last all day. We experience no thought of food until about 7PM when we have a small bowl of sauerkraut and fermented vegetables. So, we are now somewhat challenged to remember to eat. If we have room for dinner and decide to eat after the sauerkraut, our portions have become truly tiny. We are currently eating dinner every 2-3 days. We do have a bit of freshly made juice and some home made Rejuvilac with Gingerbug mixed in on most days. In fact, we have purchased smaller bowls and plates so the food does not look lost on/in them. By traditional standards we are starving ourselves... but that is certainly not the experience at all.

Prior to beginning to eat this way I was hungry nearly all the time. I ate healthy snacks every 2-4 hours and felt rather 'faint' if I did not (low blood sugar?). It is likely my body was starving despite my healthy diet of superfoods and supplements. From reading some of the material I came across, it is likely I was feeding the pathogenic bacteria with these foods, and they were not suited to share the food with my body and enhance my health.

I am letting go of my mental ideas of what is proper... my former understanding of nourishment simply does not apply at this time. What an interesting and surprising adventure this is.

xbusymom

24th April 2012, 01:17

now i am confused... i thought that you are too acidic when you are sick, and you needed to over-alkaline for rebalancing;

and there are others subscribing to Bob Beck's thing of electrifying the blood supply (which alkalines to destroy the bad little buggers)...

Dawn

24th April 2012, 08:59

xbusymom: now i am confused... i thought that you are too acidic when you are sick, and you needed to over-alkaline for rebalancing;

and there are others subscribing to Bob Beck's thing of electrifying the blood supply (which alkalines to destroy the bad little buggers)...

I know EXACTLY how you feel! I can't tell you which camp to land in ... But I can say that I worked to alkalize myself for many years, even to the point of getting a very expensive Kangen Water processor, eating only raw vegetables and juices, and using special salts (such as baking soda) in order to alkalize. All of this did not change my health one wit.

I am also VERY familiar with the Beck protocol. It works by electrically charging the blood, which kills parasites that use it as a highway to get from place to place within the body. My partner and I used to make and sell Beck devices (but are changing the design of our product so aren't in the moment). I know the Beck protocol works, but I personally did it daily for about 6 weeks with no visible change. I still think it works... I probably needed to have done it longer.

However, when I began to follow the G.A.P.S. protocol I had immediate and deep changes in my health. Long standing issues have changed for me since then. Things I thought were due to aging, such as swollen ankles, skin tags, and thickened calluses on the liver channel at the bottoms of my feet... have reversed totally. In addition, my dependence on food has decreased. I also had digestive issues that were long standing. I had developed IBS, which is very limiting because I had to think about where the nearest bathroom was everywhere I went. Some days I could not really leave the house. I was also overweight, and no amount of exercise, calorie change, liver cleanse, raw food diet, alkalizing or any of the many other things I knew about seemed to help. This does not mean that this is YOUR solution. It is simply my experience.

Take the time to educate yourself about this important information. It is changing many lives, and repairing serious health ailments for many people. And it is not expensive.

The Beck protocol is based on KILLING parasites. The alkalizing protocol is based on making your body an unfriendly environment for pathogens. But neither of these protocols recognize that working with natural and healthy symbiotic organisms that have been our friends for millions of years takes care of almost everything. Make friends with your internal garden, plant friendly symbiotic organisms in it, feed and water them daily. Then watch your health bloom as they grow healthy and strong and defend your body for you.

Eram

25th April 2012, 11:16

Rainbowbrite

25th April 2012, 11:55

Hi everyone,

We have started to implement the diet from last Monday.

We're taking it step by step and our first step is probably the hardest in my mind.
Cutting away all sugar products.

We've bought Stevia and will buy the ingredients for chocolate and cookies and make them ourselves from now on. We do this especially for the kids who will have a hard time at school if we don't give them something sweet for lunch break. All the other kids get chocolate etc. to school.

Cutting away sugar is getting me pretty nervous to be honest.
Some time ago I let go of drinking and it was very easy to do (strangely), but this sugar thing ... I have butterflies in my stomach ever since we made the decision. It feels like a good decision though and I'm looking forward to all the benefits of having a healthy gut flora and fauna.

Hi Wakeytweaky!

Well done you! Myself and the family member i'm doing it with are just coming to the end of our first week. I'm in reasonable health - but i feel so much better already, i am having withdrawl and cravings for sugar and carbs but am working through them. Also i've felt more sleepy, earlier - which i think is a good thing as i do tend to be a night owl... Generally i feel energised! My family member has potentially serious health issues in the gut (see earlier post) - and during the initial transition experienced some nasty stomach bug type symptoms - that cleared up within 48 hours though. Although it's very early days we both feel better for the change.

One great plus has been trying different food - never had Paneer before and it's amazing! As far as sugar craving - cinnamon definately helps. Also we're introducing the probiotics slowly, i've been using homemade live yogurt as that's what i had to hand and am 24 hours into starting my sauerkraut ferment. Am now looking into keffir too.

Good luck! And please do share your experience and tips!

Carolin

25th April 2012, 13:17

cloud9

25th April 2012, 14:08

I want to say thank you to Dawn and everybody else for the wonderful information shared here.

I've had stomach problems since at least 20 years ago, mostly acid reflux and gas after eating and it didn't matter what I ate. I've been juicing, having much more vegetables and increasing the amount of raw food, also I started drinking sodium bicarbonate and apple cider vinegar since at least 3 years ago and it has helped me a lot but I'm not cured; acid reflux is gone but I still get bloated after eating pretty much anything, even if it's just vegetables juice.

One other thing that bothers me is that even though I'm not overweight I've always had at least 10 extra pounds and I'm a very petite woman, I've always been very careful with what I eat and the portion size but I have never been able to shed the extra weight.

I already ordered kefir and I'm going to start having fermented foods as the information of the thread recommends, it makes total sense to me and I got the feeling this is what I have been looking for my whole life.

My mom used to give us milk kefir (we call it kumis) when we were little and we hated it but hey, I'm an old lady now so I'm willing to love it from now on.

Thank you again and I also will be sharing my experience here so others benefit from it.

Tigressa

26th April 2012, 06:58

Thank you for posting this (for me, timely) thread. I ordered the book and went to the doctor next day with my son. He is being diagnosed with low level autism at the moment. My brilliant Doctor was overwhelmingly positive about this book and said she was about to ask me to buy it.

Currently my son is on Sue Dengates 'Fed Up' diet and has responded with incredible success to that so far. I look forward to seeing him 'unthaw' further still.
Thank you all for contributing.

Regards, Tigressa.

Carolin

28th April 2012, 16:09

Hi everyone,

The GAPS Diet has a support group at Yahoo Groups......seems very active. Here is the link http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GAPSdiet/

P.S.
I WANT CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!:gaah:

Eram

28th April 2012, 22:17

Hi everyone,

The GAPS Diet has a support group at Yahoo Groups......seems very active. Here is the link http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GAPSdiet/

P.S.
I WANT CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!:gaah:

http://www.cureendometriosis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/lady-eating-chocolate-229x300.jpg

Marianne

2nd May 2012, 15:32

Interesting blog here. It has a recipe for Cabbage Cider (fermented).
http://jana-sovereignstate.blogspot.com/2011/12/cabbage-cider.html

Dawn

3rd May 2012, 20:56

Thanks Marianne, I just read the recipe at the link you provided... There is a wonderful quote there that really stood out and I'm posting it here.

from: http://jana-sovereignstate.blogspot.com/2011/12/cabbage-cider.html

You get a permanent bliss buzz in the gut courtesy of bacterial intelligence, the GI tract reconstructs and there is a rebooting of the enteric brain and GI nerves. There is a significant joy vibration in guts from consuming the orange juice-cabbage cider/coleslaw combo. The intestinal tract literally en-joys it, making one aware that the biochemistry of joy starts with the health and well-being of the microbes in the soil and gut. Cup half full (optimism) and the elevation of hope and potential may actually be gifted to us by the happiness of our bacteria, through the increase in energy and bacterial intelligence chemicals.

Here's an update on me and my experiences this week:

1. I did make home made Kimchee and tasted it after 3 days of fermenting as recommended. Well, all I can say about this is that it was one of the more 'Gawd-awful' experiences of my life. The experience was exactly like eating rotten vegetables (UGH!!!). Still, ever hopeful, I have bottled it and refrigerated it to see if a time in the refrigerator will create some further fermentation which might correct the taste and stench. Actually I do not have the serious belief that it will get better, but I am still doing what the recipe suggested. By the way, the recipe SAID to taste it at the 3 day mark! What was the author thinking?!?

Meanwhile, my supply of kefir grains is doubling every 2 weeks as foretold in the literature about it so I have been gifting it to others. Pretty soon I will be advertising it on Craigslist to find new homes for the increasing supply (LOL). I have a true craving for kefir ... I LOVE the stuff, but not everyone I offer it to does.

My sauerkraut will not be ready for another couple of weeks.

I am so GLAD to see others trying this and sharing their experiences!

conk

4th May 2012, 19:04

I am being bombarded with a confluence of events, 'coincidences', articles, books, etc. that seem to be screaming "listen to Dawn's advice". It seems the universe lays it all right out in front of us. We simple have to recognize the serendipitous moments and act on them. In a far corner of my heart I've know this for some time, but believed my elementary practices were covering all the bases. I take regular probiotic supplements, but now learn that commercial pills don't really provide the body what it needs.

Source has now slapped me hard, 'wake up pea-head and recognize the signs'. Thanks so much for starting this great thread Dawn, and for everyone elses contribution. My focus has been honed and sharpened.

I mentioned earlier about fecal transplants. Now, two different newsletters have mentioned this. Not just simple coincidence. Not that I'm desperate enough for a poo enema just yet, but it does speak volumes about the critical need for healthy flora in the gut. Dr. David Williams and Dr. Bruce West have both written about miracles observed after fecal transplants.

Also interesting in Dr. Williams' letter was the fact that up to 55% of fecal matter is bacteria. 17% is fiber, with the rest being made up of undigested food residue, water, mineral salts, and cells shed from intestinal walls. And of course that piece of undigested corn. ;) Inadequate amounts of bacteria make it difficult to form a normal stool. This knowledge should be given to all patients suffering from Chrones', IBS, constipation, diarrea, etc. Sadly doctors just want to shut down the stomach's proton pump and deprive the digestion of critical digestive acid. Anti-acids and PPIs are a pitiful prescription from a professional! Will they ever learn?

Thanks again!

Eram

5th May 2012, 10:41

1. I did make home made Kimchee and tasted it after 3 days of fermenting as recommended. Well, all I can say about this is that it was one of the more 'Gawd-awful' experiences of my life. The experience was exactly like eating rotten vegetables (UGH!!!). Still, ever hopeful, I have bottled it and refrigerated it to see if a time in the refrigerator will create some further fermentation which might correct the taste and stench. Actually I do not have the serious belief that it will get better, but I am still doing what the recipe suggested. By the way, the recipe SAID to taste it at the 3 day mark! What was the author thinking?!?

http://www.picturesof.net/_images_300/A_Bear_Rolling_on_the_Floor_and_Laughing_Royalty_Free_Clipart_Picture_100326-162144-792009.jpg

Maybe the author has taste and smell deficiency.
I feel sorry for you Dawn, but at the same time... it's soo funny!

Well:
We're 1,5 week without sugar now and it has been easier as expected, but still it's hard sometimes.
Funny thing is, that my liver is not so sensitive any more. It used to be and I didn't understand why. I still don't really, but now I stopped using sugar the sensitivity is gone.
Our energy levels are more steady as well. that's nice!

I just edited a word I misspelled in the quote chosen... Dawn-moderator

Connecting with Sauce

6th May 2012, 20:11

I was on green med info and looking at turmeric and discovered one article about fermented turmeric :)

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/substance/turmeric-fermented

Forwarded it to my wife... then she found this...

http://www.okinawab2b.jp/fermented%20turmeric.pdf

Maybe an interesting read... We are looking into it now... and I haven't fully read it, but thought I'd share it here...

Connecting with Sauce

6th May 2012, 20:14

Rainbowbrite

6th May 2012, 20:30

Hi everyone! It's great hearing how everyone is doing, everyone has contributed such good info here, thank you! Dawn, i really hope your kimchee works out - rotten veggies = yuk in my book :)

I'm now about 2 weeks in; totally grain, carb and sugar free... It's going really well, i feel i've overcome issues around my perception of what a plate of food should look like and i'm getting my head around the practicalities of shopping for this too. I've been making my own nut butters (amongst many other things) as they are so expensive to buy, they really are cheaper when you DIY. One advantage is being able to make whatever quantity you like, so i've been making in small quantities that fit with appetites, need and budget. I don't have an all singing and dancing food processor so have been using my hand mincer and mortar and pestle for this - great fun and my youngest loves getting involved! My kefir is 'getting there' the culture is going through it's 3rd ferment as i type and i noticed a change in taste from 1st to 2nd ferment - very excited about this next one!!

I'm still experiencing withdrawal and die off symptoms, but these are not as severe as i had anticipated most of the time and i can't sing the praises of cinnamon enough - i've honestly found it helps with sugar cravings. I've also been drinking nettle tea a fair bit too.

Today i feel headachey and bloated - not gassy, more like water retention, but to be honest i don't know if this is due to diet, air pressure changes, the full moon or PMT - perhaps all four lol! I'm experiencing more carb craving than sugar cravings now too, which is interesting.

My family member reports that things are more regular, and are less painful in the abdomen - also less gas. Overall more comfortable - though it's still very early days. We're both really heartend by these small improvements :) They are great news as it's first relief of any kind in a long time! More tests are happening this month and i'll share any findings that will be of use here. The first test (the camera) was clear, this looked at the lower bowel, left hand side to be precise. The next tests are going to look deeper :S

Other random observations: I have lost weight - 4 1/2 lb since starting. I can report that energy levels are overall better. My skin has improved, it's clearer. I also feel 'cleaner', both on an energetical and physical level - i can't really explain that in any other words... But it's a very welcome addition to my mental list of benefits!

Rainbowbrite

6th May 2012, 20:38

Additionally...

We have Water kefir... and it LOVES black Strap Molasses and Brown sugar... and grows visably overnight... so much so we will be over run by it if we do too much black strap and brown sugar...

Thanks for this - i've just been looking into water kefir today! Great timing! Do you use it in the same way?

Also i'll have a good look at the fermented turmeric link you posted, i adore turmeric and the health benefits (as we all know i'm sure) are huge. I'm very interested in how fermentation effects this wonderful spice.

Thanks for sharing!

cloud9

6th May 2012, 20:55

haha

Yeah i'm out of this place for good in 4 months so decent containers are at a premium in my apartment too! Nice to be gifted the kimchi alright. It's not the first time its happened either. From my experience, once a nice old Korean lady gets wind of the fact you like kimchi she jumps at the chance to share some with you. That's probably the thing that's moved me the most during my time here - this culture of sharing that they have. Many's the time ive seen a young student i've taught who has a bar of chocolate or candy or whatever, and without fail the kid offers a piece to their surrounding friends before even thinking of taking a bite for themselves. And even if the kid is only left with one piece for themselves like the rest have, their attidude is "well, sure isnt that enough?" I never get tired of seeing it.

Oh I forget to mention that when using salt to make the kimchi or sauerkraut, i'd highly recommend using a good quality salt like himalayan rock salt as opposed to that disgusting refined table salt. No point cutting corners.

Have fun making it :)

I'd like to try kimchi but I'm afraid of the flavor... can you please tell me if it's hot? Like in really hot... I can't stand hot foods and I have seen some videos of how to make it and I see the absurd amount of red pepper they use... what would it be the taste of it? Can you compare it with something else to get an idea?

I've been drinking water kefir and I like the taste of it and getting ready to try milk kefir. My mother used to give it to us when we were little children and at that time I didn't like much but I don't remember it as being awful, just a little too strong so it was difficult to drink a whole glass of it.
Thanks in advance.

Dawn

13th May 2012, 20:43

Cloud9: I've been drinking water kefir and I like the taste of it and getting ready to try milk kefir. My mother used to give it to us when we were little children and at that time I didn't like much but I don't remember it as being awful, just a little too strong so it was difficult to drink a whole glass of it.
Thanks in advance.

I'd like to try kimchi but I'm afraid of the flavor... can you please tell me if it's hot? Like in really hot... I can't stand hot foods and I have seen some videos of how to make it and I see the absurd amount of red pepper they use... what would it be the taste of it? Can you compare it with something else to get an idea?

Hi Cloud9, I'll try to answer you as best as I can. First, I'd like to say that my first home made kimchee attempt has been continuing to ferment in its juices in the refrigerator (per the recipe) for an additional 14 days. This is the same stuff that I tasted at the 3 day mark and commented that it was a 'Gawd awful' experience. Well, strangely 14 days later it is now DELICIOUS! What a SURPRISE! It is much better than the commercial version I bought from my local health food store (which was so very expensive.)

So... is kimchee hot? It certainly has a LOT of pepper in it and seems like it would be. However peppers are extremely alkaline, and when combined with the lactic acid created in fermentation, they're barely spicy. In fact 'heat' from peppers is not the most over riding flavor of kimchee at all. It is like eating sauerkraut with other flavors running through it. And those 'other flavors' depend on the recipe. In the one I made, garlic figures as the most noticeable second flavor, beyond the tart piquant taste of lactic acid. There is a subtle mild heat... but it is definitely NOT overwhelming... in fact it is VERY subtle. Fermentation changes many things about the vegetables used.

When you do start to use milk kefir, Dr. Campbell-McBride recommends that you begin with 1 teaspoon and see if your body has a die off reaction before you raise the amount. You might not like it at first, but if your body is like mine, you might just develop a craving for the stuff and find you can't get enough. Kefir is my FAVORITE food at this point and I try not to drink more than 3-4 cups daily so I'll have room to eat other things.

When I added kefir, sauerkraut, whey, and live fermented pickles to my diet, the flavors in my meals became exciting and alive. My food seems so delicious now! Sweet flavors are provided by cinnamon teas, nuts, and by 1/2 cup of fresh berries smothered in home made fermented cream (which the diet allows after the first month or 2). If you are still craving sweet things it may be too early to think of adding 1/2 cup of berries to your diet. I did not add these in until the end of the third month. Fermented kefir cream provides essential pre-digested fatty acids and also slows down the absorption of sugar from the berries so that there are no blood sugar spikes.

Dawn

13th May 2012, 21:05

Connection with Sauce. Thanks for the information on fermenting curcumin. It should be really easy to add turmeric root to home made sauerkraut, fermented vegetables, or kimchee. What a great idea! I've been making liposomal vitamin C ascorbate with curcumin to help the body absorb this valuable tumeric extract... but of course fermentation would allow the micro-life forms to convert it into a usable form for our bodies. I added a few turmeric roots as I made my first batches of fermented vegetables. Now I wish I'd added more... much more! I now have 15 quarts of home made fermented vegetables in various forms to eat before I can make new batches with larger amounts of turmeric roots.

Just in case someone here would like the info on the liposomal form (which you can make at home) here's a link for it: http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,59374,0.htm

ThePythonicCow

16th May 2012, 04:13

Just in case someone here would like the info on the liposomal form (which you can make at home) here's a link for it: http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,59374,0.htm
Every liposomal Vitamin C recipe I've read in the last year or two has this same paragraph:

***What follows is often the most difficult part of the process for those new to making homemade liposomals. While stirring the vitamin C/distilled water solution very slowly pour/dribble the dissolved bicarbonate of soda/water mixture into the Vitamin C/distilled water solution. (pour soda solution slowly as the resulting mixture will bubble. By pouring slowly and constantly stirring Vitamin C solution you will be able to mix the two with out bubbling over)
It amuses me :). Get a bigger jar, and you can pour them together as fast as you like.

When I added kefir, sauerkraut, whey, and live fermented pickles to my diet, ...
Awesome ... gives us reforming junk food-holics something to shoot for. You must have one happy gut.

UnrealDreams

16th May 2012, 05:14

Going beyond the modern beliefs about health..Dr. Bruce Lipton. A must see for anyone viewing this thread in my opinion.

YTvQyaFvVug

Connecting with Sauce

22nd May 2012, 21:15

This is worth a listen... Especially for those who prefer listening to their information...

Sandor Katz – The Art of Fermentation – May 21, 2012
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/sandor-katz-the-art-of-fermentation-may-21-2012/

Eram

28th May 2012, 13:52

Here is a photo of our first amount of home-made Kefir.
In the glass is the first load that is ready for consumption. 1 of 2 glasses full.
In the jar is the new load of milk and kefir grains.
With a farm at 200 yards who sells raw organic milk this is going to be heaven.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg819/scaled.php?server=819&filename=kefirb.jpg&res=landing

about the sugar...
I still have sugar cravings, but they are lessening more and more.

kanishk

9th July 2012, 15:13

taurad

10th July 2012, 01:36

i know this not straight to the topic but i consider this a must:

http://www.westonaprice.org/cancer/a-holistic-approach-to-cancer

cheers

Arrowwind

10th July 2012, 13:47

kombucha is one simple way of restoration of flora to the gut. Costs next to nothing if you make it yourself.

In the old days fermented foods was a critical aspect of survival. Many things were fermented besides sourkraut. Some fermenting processes only preserved foods for 6 weeks or so... so when the kale and chard came in you could keep it for that long. I had a great book on it a few weeks ago and have returned it to the library for renewal as it was an interlibrary loan, so hoping to get it back soon. Cant remember the title but something like How to preseve food without canning, drying or freezing... of course it came from a Brigham Young Univeristy Library...(Mormon) If there is anything to learn about food storage go to the Mormons...

Sourkraut in the old days was not necessarily considered a healthfood but a survival tactic. You can ferment most veggies.
Primal Defense is a good product for restoration of gut flora, It contains earth microbes.. a much greater selection than typical probiotic supplements. Some people when they take it go though a raucious time as the floras compete with each other and new types of colonies are established. It is one of the backbone ingredients of Jordon Rubin's protocols who cured his relentless irritable bowel disease with it and other supplements and dietary regimen.

http://www.amazon.com/Restoring-Your-Digestive-Health-Transfom/dp/0758202822/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1341927746&sr=1-3&keywords=jordan+rubin

Mercola is sorrily way behind the times on revealing to the people about fermented foods and gut flora building.... but then he has had a lot of conventional training to overcome. Look to Anne Wigmore. She's been telling the story for over 50 years.... she was all about fermented foods.... a part of her program that had mostly been ignored by health advocates and not actively promoted as it should have been.

delfine

10th July 2012, 14:11

Good thread, thanks...

leavesoftrees

10th July 2012, 22:46

In the old days fermented foods was a critical aspect of survival. Many things were fermented besides sourkraut. Some fermenting processes only preserved foods for 6 weeks or so... so when the kale and chard came in you could keep it for that long.

You have to watch this, while fermented foods are a great way to preserve, they do have a use by date. Always use your sense of smell

I had a great book on it a few weeks ago and have returned it to the library for renewal as it was an interlibrary loan, so hoping to get it back soon. Cant remember the title but something like How to preseve food without canning, drying or freezing... of course it came from a Brigham Young Univeristy Library...

Is this the book?

http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/preserving_food_without_freezing_or_canning:paperback

Eram

10th July 2012, 23:49

I got 2 teaspoon of kefir, and fermented 1 teaspoon of it with 1 cup of milk and other one with 1/2 liters of milk. After 1 day both specimens are looking like yogurt. After filtering it there was not a grainy precipitate, it is creamy, like yogurt. Does that milk got fermented because of lactic acid spores or kefir? How should I differentiate between kefir and yogurt? How does kefir taste like ? what are its other characteristics ..

Hi kanishk,

I hope this might be of help to you:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/the-difference-between-kefir-and-yogurt/

The Difference between Kefir and Yogurt

Many people who are turning over a new (and healthier) leaf include kefir, yogurt and other healthy food and drinks into their diet. Kefir and yogurt are both very popular among consumers, but while most people think these two are the same, they actually have significant differences. It is important to know about these differences to find out which of the two is the healthier option.
What Is Kefir?

Kefir is a cultured milk drink widely used in the Middle East, Russia and Eastern Europe. It is made by inoculating the milk of a cow, sheep, or goat with kefir grains, which is mix of bacteria and yeasts that slightly sours the milk and produces a yogurt-like drink. Fruits and sweeteners are added to make the drink more delicious. Being rich in probiotics, this beverage is known to have numerous positive effects including improved digestion, regulation of the immune system and lower blood pressure. It also serves as a remedy for several diseases like constipation, diarrhea, allergies and many more.
What Is Yogurt?

Yogurt is a nutritious snack that is made from the process of natural bacterial fermentation of milk. To make yogurt, you have to culture cream or milk using live and active bacterial cultures such as Streptococcus thermophilis and Lactobacillus acidophilus. Like kefir, yogurt also has countless health benefits. One of these includes prevention of certain diseases like osteoporosis, yeast infections and colon cancer. Apart from that, yogurt can also improve digestion and help with irregular bowel movements.
The Difference

The primary difference between the two is the process by which they are made. Yogurt is fermented with bacteria. Kefir, on the other hand, is made with both bacteria and yeast. Because of this, kefir has more good bacteria. It can also help improve function of the intestinal tract, which is something that yogurt is not able to do. Another difference to take note of is the higher nutritional value of kefir compared to yogurt. The former is also able to clean the colon and keep it healthy.

In terms of digestion, kefir curd size is smaller, and is thus easier to digest. This makes it a popular option for babies and elderly people. Yogurt is more common than kefir. You will find more yogurt products in the market than kefir, but with the growing recognition of kefir’s benefits, it will only take a while before you see more of this product.

Both are nutritious and beneficial to health. However, kefir has a little bit more edge over yogurt in terms of nutritional value and digestibility. Include kefir in your diet by drinking it as a smoothie or shake (add chocolate or fruits to make it tastier) or as an addition to any recipe that requires yogurt, sour cream or cream. Whatever way you choose to take in kefir and yogurt, you will be able to enjoy the health benefits that come with them.

Arrowwind

11th July 2012, 04:53

Is this the book?

http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/preserving_food_without_freezing_or_canning:paperback

Yep, thats it.

Dennis Leahy

1st August 2012, 19:14

kombucha is one simple way of restoration of flora to the gut. Costs next to nothing if you make it yourself.

I have just (finally) started making my first batch of kombucha.

I will scour this thread again for hints, but wonder if those who make kombucha generally test by sipping or by using pH test strips (especially when you were new to the process and would not know for sure when it is done brewing/fermenting.)

I have also tried the vinegar-added drinks. The commercial drinks that simply add vinegar are not very tasty (according to my taste buds), but at least one commercial kombucha (http://www.synergydrinks.com/classic/synergy_classic_gingerberry.aspx) (that adds ginger and blueberry juice) hits the effervescence and taste right on the money (for my tongue.) So, if you'll be adding a sweet juice after the first fermentation, at what pH do you stop brewing? If by taste, I assume I need to make the kombucha "a bit stronger than I want", but have no idea just exactly what that means.

I know that experience is key, and each person's taste buds are different, but I am hedging my bets to try to make the first batch successful.

Thanks in advance for any insights you are willing to share on kombucha-making. (Not just Arrowwind, but everyone.)

Dennis

Dennis Leahy

4th August 2012, 03:57

bump bumpity bump bump kombucha!

Franny

4th August 2012, 05:37

Canʻt say much about kombucha. Made it some years ago but could not stand it.

Iʻve been making kimchi the last few months using some large 54 oz glass jars ( contained coconut oil) as I like it much better than sauerkraut. I trim down the preparation technique a bit and have it ready to eat in about 10 days in the summer. Very tasty and everyone that has tried it really likes it...as long as they like kimchi to begin with. Koreans ferment many vegetables so I add 5-7 types to the Napa cabbage and lots of garlic and onions.

I use the core of the cabbage along with Napa cabbage leaves to keep the veggies under the cucumber juice which I use as liquid. Got those ideas from a Dr Mercola video. Napa is more tender than head cabbage and makes a nicer dish I think.

Give it a go, very easy to do. If anyone wants the recipe I use, let me know.

Cheers everyone...

Dawn

4th September 2012, 06:04

I haven't been on this thread for a while and I thought a personal report was in order. I've continued to make kefir daily and have developed a taste for it, if not an outright craving. I've given lots of starter grains away to every friend and any neighbor who shows interest and many are reporting benefits to me. I also have continued to add sauerkraut at least once or twice daily as a condiment on the 'side' along with my meal dishes. So.. what are the results so far after 8 months or so on the GAPS diet and these fermented foods?

Well they are, quite frankly, amazing!

1. I no longer have a gluten intolerance (Celiac Sprue disease) it seems.
.... now, I am not foolish enough to eat wheat often, however I have had a couple of small servings when in social situations with absolutely no ill effects this is amazing because I have had severe intolerance for over 20 years and prior to this a serving would have made me ill for about 3 months while my intestine recovered.

2. All colon difficulties have vanished
.... at age 61 I had symptoms of crones disease and/or a spastic colon. These are all gone now

3. I am much happier overall than I was before this diet

So, my personal take on the GAPS protocol is that it does exactly what it claims to do.

Dawn

5th September 2012, 08:05

And one more article which I don't think has made onto this thread yet.
Find the entire article here: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/09/05/microbes-manipulate-your-mind.aspx
Below is a partial excerpt

By Dr. Mercola

There are 100 trillion cells in your body, but 90% of the genetic material is not yours. It is from the bacteria, fungi, viruses and other microorganisms, i.e. your microflora. Gut microbes are big in the news lately, as researchers continue to discover the important roles these tiny organisms play in your overall health and well-being. We now know that your microflora influence your:

Genetic expression
Immune system
Weight, and
Risk of numerous chronic and acute diseases, from diabetes to cancer

Most recently, research has shown that a certain set of these microbes may actually influence the activity of genes in your brain – and the parts they play are not small parts. They may work to manipulate your behavior, and your memory as well.

Microbes Manipulate Your Mind

According to a recent article in The Guardian1, certain species of gut bacteria have been found to influence gene activity in your brain. Some of this research was published in 2011.2 Mice lacking gut bacteria were found to engage in "high-risk behavior," and this altered behavior was accompanied by neurochemical changes in the mouse brain.

According to the authors, microbiota (your gut flora) may play a role in the communication between your gut and your brain...........

Matts

5th September 2012, 09:36

My five cents to the whole theme is a recommendation of an online-book (translated from french), which may expand the horizon in thinking about nutrition:
http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggindex.html

(rather a new thread :)

Dennis Leahy

5th September 2012, 13:18

...Iʻve been making kimchi the last few months using some large 54 oz glass jars ( contained coconut oil) as I like it much better than sauerkraut. I trim down the preparation technique a bit and have it ready to eat in about 10 days in the summer. Very tasty and everyone that has tried it really likes it...as long as they like kimchi to begin with. Koreans ferment many vegetables so I add 5-7 types to the Napa cabbage and lots of garlic and onions.

I use the core of the cabbage along with Napa cabbage leaves to keep the veggies under the cucumber juice which I use as liquid. Got those ideas from a Dr Mercola video. Napa is more tender than head cabbage and makes a nicer dish I think.

Give it a go, very easy to do. If anyone wants the recipe I use, let me know.

Cheers everyone...

Hi Latte,

OK, time for the kimchi/kimchee recipe, please! Several beautiful heads of red cabbage are begging to be picked.

Dennis

Dennis Leahy

5th September 2012, 14:07

Canʻt say much about kombucha. Made it some years ago but could not stand it.

My first batch turned out very good. A few friends that like kombucha thought it was excellent; a few friends whose first sips of kombucha were from my first batch didn't like it. Maybe that acidic "bite" is an acquired taste.

I tried to guess at the recipe for my favorite commercial kombucha (Synergy: Gingerberry) and so added 2 oz blueberry juice and 1/2 teaspoon fresh ginger juice and 1/2 teaspoon of raw honey to each bottle, then let it go through a second fermenting process for 3 days. I did get effervescence, just a bit less than the best of the commercial stuff (which oddly, sometimes has no or almost no effervescence.)

Next batch (today) will use 1-1/2 oz concord grape juice, less than 1/2 teaspoon of fresh ginger juice, and 1/4 teaspoon of unrefined organic sugar.

Oh yeah, that reminds me... most information says to use plain, cheap, white sugar for the initial fermentation - that it works best, is cheaper, and besides - the bacteria and yeast consume the sugar, not you. But, I could not make myself buy cheap, processed/refined, white sugar. I don't buy that crap and wouldn't even feed it to microorganisms. :~) Besides, unless sugar is "organic" it is almost certainly (in the US, anyway) made from GMO sugar beets. Not for me, thanks.

Below, you see a photo of fancy-schmancy kombucha that cost about 65% less than the best commercial stuff (mostly due to the high cost of pure blueberry juice.) Using organic concord grape juice as the (optional) fruit juice for taste and light sweetness should get me in the range of 80% to 85% less expensive per bottle than the commercial stuff (and I am buying organic tea, organic sugar, organic juice, and organic ginger.)

Dennis

http://www.leahyguitars.com/Imagez/Two/KombuchaFirstBatch201208.jpg
Kombucha tea, with blueberry and ginger. This may be one of the reasons I reincarnated into human form. hahahhaaa

13th Warrior

5th September 2012, 14:38

Dennis,

Your Kombucha looks and sounds tasty!

I just made some Kimchi; i got the recipe from Mark Bittmans books "How to Cook Every Thing Vegetarian"

Here goes from memory:

2 lbs cabbage shredded

20 scallions coarsely chopped

1/4 cup chopped garlic

1 T. Red Pepper Flakes (more or less to taste)

1/4 cup soy sauce

1/2 cup sugar

Place peeled cabbage leaves in a colander and sprinkle with course salt between layers and let sit until wilted (two hours)...rinse then chop and combine with other ingredients.

It looks like Mark has a new book out and a slightly different recipe:

For the kimchi:
1 small head (about 12 ounces) green, Savoy, or Napa cabbage, cored and shredded
2 tablespoons salt
6 scallions, chopped
2 tablespoons minced garlic, or to taste
1 tablespoon minced ginger
1 tablespoon red chile flakes
1 tablespoon granulated sugar
2 tablespoons soy sauce

1. Make the kimchi: Put the shredded cabbage in a colander and toss it well with the salt. Let it sit over a bowl until it wilts, at least 2 hours. Rinse the cabbage and pat it dry.

2. Combine the scallions, garlic, ginger, red chile flakes, sugar, and soy sauce in a bowl or large jar. Toss the mixture with the cabbage. Let the kimchi marinate for a minimum of 2 hours in the fridge.*

Swan

5th September 2012, 15:00

Arrowwind

5th September 2012, 15:10

Dennis, I cant answer all your questions. Im not into checking ph etc. I just make it. . Its got to be fizzy or I wont drink it. I let one batch sit on the shelf for about three weeks and what I got was something that tasted just like vinegar.

somewhere on this site you should be able to sign up for emails about kombucha. they get pretty technical
http://www.kombuchakamp.com/secrets-chapter-1?awt_l=L2Fsl&awt_m=L8Ic9WR1Co5jLN (http://www.kombuchakamp.com/secrets-chapter-1?awt_l=L2Fsl&awt_m=L8Ic9WR1Co5jLN)

they do say that green or black tea is essential for making a true kombuch product. I use a combo of greentea and ginger and sometimes ginger/lemon tea bags.

I do use white cane sugar. I figure the micro-organisms will transmutate it. Its not a gmo product that I know of. Next year I plan to grow sugar beets and try making my own sugar... ever consder that possibility?

Arrowwind

5th September 2012, 15:18

1. I no longer have a gluten intolerance (Celiac Sprue disease) it seems.
.... now, I am not foolish enough to eat wheat often, however I have had a couple of small servings when in social situations with absolutely no ill effects this is amazing because I have had severe intolerance for over 20 years and prior to this a serving would have made me ill for about 3 months while my intestine recovered.

2. All colon difficulties have vanished
.... at age 61 I had symptoms of crones disease and/or a spastic colon. These are all gone now

3. I am much happier overall than I was before this diet

So, my personal take on the GAPS protocol is that it does exactly what it claims to do.

This is just great for you. You have cured an incurable disease! Truely remarkable.
These products are so much more effective that just taking acidolophus or yogurt for it actually colonizes in the gut wall.

My gut is doing much better also. Even during weeks where I dont drink Kombucha.

Dennis Leahy

5th September 2012, 16:13

Oh yeah, that reminds me... most information says to use plain, cheap, white sugar for the initial fermentation - that it works best, is cheaper, and besides - the bacteria and yeast consume the sugar, not you. But, I could not make myself buy cheap, processed/refined, white sugar. I don't buy that crap and wouldn't even feed it to microorganisms. :~) Besides, unless sugar is "organic" it is almost certainly (in the US, anyway) made from GMO sugar beets. Not for me, thanks.

Hi Dennis,

So which sugar do you use? I am about to make my first batch kombucha, and I too can just not bring myself to use white sugar. Woul prefer to use unrefined, brown sugar (organic). Would that do?I use an "unrefined" organic very-light-brown sugar. Sugar crystals I buy in bulk from the health food store - I think it is from Paraguay. "Brown" sugar has a high molasses content, and I am not sure what is done to that to get most of the molasses out and still be able to call it "unrefined." I was told that the yeast and bacteria have an easier time breaking down white sugar, but I am concerned for their teeny-tiny pancreas hahahahahaha. I am making them work harder, and (supposedly) it takes longer with more natural sugar. Since I am only a beginner kombucha brewer, I have no idea what the molasses in the brown sugar will do to the timing of the kombucha brewing process. Supposedly it will still work but will be slower. You might even get some extra minerals/nutrients (http://www.kombuchakamp.com/what-is-kombucha/kombucha-mushroom-tea-brewing-safety-tips/types-of-sugar-to-use-for-brewing-kombucha)

I followed this video pretty closely (except for his use of white sugar, and I did a second fermentation), but also read info from a number of websites and bought The Art Of Fermentation book too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQAX9HngwN8

Happy brewing!

Dennis

conk

6th September 2012, 20:21

Dennis, have you ever tried coconut flower sugar? Tasty, very low glycemic, and actually has nutrients. It's granulated. The little organisms should gobble it right up with delight.

CdnSirian

7th September 2012, 02:09

Wow. Tons of info here. I used honey for kambucha over several months. I developed a weird skin thing over my upper lip so I gave it up. Yet many friends benefited from it and it's not difficult to perpetuate. Unless you want to buy it at Whole Foods...not!

One day I'll figure out why it wasn't good for me.

Dennis Leahy

7th September 2012, 03:36

Dennis, have you ever tried coconut flower sugar? Tasty, very low glycemic, and actually has nutrients. It's granulated. The little organisms should gobble it right up with delight.
Very interesting you should mention that, Conk, because Astrid just clued me into the very same thing. :~)

I had never heard of it and have never seen it on the shelves of health food stores. I just ordered some, through a health food buying club. (I recently joined a "buying club" of a couple dozen people.)

So, I should be able to try it when I do the next batch.

Dennis

p.s. Has anyone tried using a digital ph meter? I see mixed reviews for inexpensive ph meters and hate to waste my money if they are junk. I couldn't justify one of the expensive ones ($100 to $400.)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Wow. Tons of info here. I used honey for kambucha over several months. I developed a weird skin thing over my upper lip so I gave it up. Yet many friends benefited from it and it's not difficult to perpetuate. Unless you want to buy it at Whole Foods...not!

One day I'll figure out why it wasn't good for me.Was it raw honey? From what I've read (about kombucha and about raw honey), raw honey is anti-bacterial, and the kombucha culture SCOBY (symbiotic colony of bacteria and yeast) is not too thrilled when an antibacterial agent is added.

Dennis

ThePythonicCow

7th September 2012, 04:29

p.s. Has anyone tried using a digital ph meter? I see mixed reviews for inexpensive ph meters and hate to waste my money if they are junk. I couldn't justify one of the expensive ones ($100 to $400.)
The pH meters don't look worth it to me either. The low cost ones either get poor reviews on Amazon for not lasting long, or are probably just electrical conductivity meters, and the good ones cost more :).

I use a combination of a HM Digital TDS-3 Handheld Meter ( http://amzn.com/B000VTQM70), which measures Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) by testing conductivity, and pHydrion Vivid Ph Test Strips (http://amzn.com/B0007RSD0A) for testing pH.

Here's how a real pH meter works: pH meter principles - What is pH and how is it measured? (http://www.seafriends.org.nz/dda/ph.htm) As you can see, they are a bit more complex and require a bit more maintenance to keep working right.

Dennis Leahy

7th September 2012, 06:40

Thanks, Paul.

Yeah, the real ph meters are expensive and require maintenance, calibration, and often/usually storing the tip in liquid. Makes sense for a winemaker, but for me to use so infrequently, not a good purchase.

I have some of those ph test strips that go from 4.5 to 7.5, which might be perfect for testing urine and saliva (and my artesian drinking water), but I need to test for acidity in the 2.5 to 4.0 range for kombucha. That's also the winemaking ph range, so now I'm looking at hobbyist winemaking suppliers.

I need to drink (and eat) acidic fermented foods which (paradoxically) alkalinizes the body.

Thanks for the links!

Dennis

eileenrose

8th September 2012, 05:48

I was remote viewing my brain last evening (during meditative trance time) and I saw a huge region that was damaged by mercury/Thimerosal in Vaccines*. I use to get vaccination...just like anyone else. These do cause major brain dis-function.

FYI - Luckily you can still awaken (become enlightened....the guru path) even if the mind doesn't function well (or is not as intelligent or smart or whole as it should be). In some strange way, having the mind not working properly made me less dependent on it (memory). So everything helps (on this particular path).

Note: I had a brain scan years ago (will have to look up the name of the mapping down....was done as part of neurobiofeedback** work). And it showed so many un-responsive (dead?) blank areas of the brain I qualified for full disability benefits (way more gaps and holes than the average person...is how they decide who gets disability and who doesn't).

*http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
**http://www.eeginfo.com/what-is-neurofeedback.htm

eileenrose

8th September 2012, 05:55

I posted the above in response to this post earlier on (just in case someone wondered why I wrote about this particular topic now).

Pugwash84: My son has had Autism since birth, they say that is called classic autism and that is different to the other autism from toxins. The weird thing is though, because I have always known him as who he is with autism, I can't imagine him any other way.

I hope you are open to exploring this information. I don't believe your doctor is educated in the situation. The crux of the matter is that this is a doctor caused illness due to multi-generational use of antibiotics. That means it is due to your grandmother, your mother, and you having prescription antibiotics, (chlorinated water and factory-fresh food don't help either). Dads contribute too as they share their pelvic flora and fauna with their mates during intercourse. What do you have to loose by learning about this and trying it for your family?

The book is a very good read, and you will be amazed at the information supplied in just the first 20 pages.

As I look back at my life I realize that many of my current health problems stem directly from things doctors have prescribed or done to me and things dentists have done to my mouth. Actually, the entire medical field is based on the idea that we need to kill, sterilize, and obliterate pathogens. After 80 years of antibiotics and vaccinations just look at how sick almost everyone is. And autism has gone from 1 child in 1,100 to 1 child in 55. Something is seriously wrong. It appears Dr Campbell-McBride has nailed the problem and has a very thorough understanding of it. Her protocol has cured many autistic children, not just her son.

ps: I will also say one thing about what helps the brain tissue and that is walnuts. I actually 'see' them helping (cure) my brain. In homeopathy that talk about why foods/herbs that look like certain body parts cure illnesses (Law of Similars*).

* law of similars (http://www.homeowatch.org/basic/similars.html)

Dawn

9th September 2012, 05:43

eileenrose: I was remote viewing my brain last evening (during meditative trance time) and I saw a huge region that was damaged by mercury/Thimerosal in Vaccines*. I use to get vaccination...just like anyone else. These do cause major brain dis-function.

Thank you Eileen, this is why I put up this thread. Dr Mc Bride has found that the brain can heal itself- if the body is put on a special diet plan which includes probiotics. Are you following her recommendations? I'd love to hear if you have results down the road.

There is very solid evidence that pathogenic gut flora lead to toxins going directly through the blood-brain barrier and killing or disabling neurological tissue in the brain and the rest of the body. This is why this information is so powerful.

eileenrose

9th September 2012, 09:34

Well I am not following any plan. Unless you count eating as much chocolate as humanily feasible (I'm not joking). Very few things left that I can get calories and pleasure from (to stay in human form....otherwise...what is the point). (long story....can pm me for details...not worth exploring here).

I am trying out the Bio-K probiotics...they might actually work (but still in 'testing' phase).

Notes:
Willing to try other brands as well (as I also recommend to other's who need it....got one person in mind right now that needs help after 5 day stay in hospital for a staph infection that was suppose to kill him......I told him straight out 'no sugar' and Bio-K (plus good vit. c, rest, plenty of clean water....and acupuncture/herbs). Any other advice I can give him is appreciated (if he calls me back for more....he didn't seem to interested in trying that hard....people really think that what they eat doesn't matter....I mean really think that way).

I still help others on occasion (heal themselves). Just don't advertise or try to do it (moved along to other topics that are more revealing than just health topics...I mean once you've done everything humanily possible....then the only thing left to do is awaken from physical form....).

eileenrose

9th September 2012, 09:53

I might add that the worse disease is fear/worry/emotions.

When those dissipate (called 'clearing'), the underlying ill-ness have a lot less power (over the physical form/body). I find that after lots of clearing, the disease usually dissipates on its own...as without the restrictions imposed by the mind, it is free to heal all on it's own. Though good food/water/air helps alleviate symptoms and cure underlying deficiencies.

conk

9th September 2012, 15:05

Dawn

9th September 2012, 16:06

Eileenrose: I am trying out the Bio-K probiotics...they might actually work (but still in 'testing' phase).

Notes:
Willing to try other brands as well (as I also recommend to other's who need it....got one person in mind right now that needs help after 5 day stay in hospital for a staph infection that was suppose to kill him......I told him straight out 'no sugar' and Bio-K (plus good vit. c, rest, plenty of clean water....and acupuncture/herbs). Any other advice I can give him is appreciated (if he calls me back for more....he didn't seem to interested in trying that hard....people really think that what they eat doesn't matter....I mean really think that way).

Eileen, this post makes me so sad. Have you read this thread? BioK is not only expensive, but it doesn't work nearly as well as the kefir you can make for pennies. I used to take BioK and it never did heal my digestive tract like kefir has done. You are in California, where I live, and I am happy to send you a kefir start for FREE.... or you can go to EBay and purchase one for less than $15.00. Then you can make something much more powerful than BioK. That is what this thread is all about... home made probiotics are really best.

Eileenrose: I might add that the worse disease is fear/worry/emotions.

Eileen... did you read the beginning of this thread and listen to Dr McBride (the YouTube interview)? If your gut flora is pathogenic then depression and emotional darkness will be your lot. Growing healthy micro-organisms in your digestive tract is the key to becoming happy and joyful. Here's the link to her information for you: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=464505&viewfull=1#post464505

Dawn

9th September 2012, 16:23

conk: A local physician has begun the practice of infant fecal matter bowel implants. He has done over a dozen of them so far and has seen a 100% success rate, curing all manner of serious ailments. This is not my local naturopath, who has used this procedure slightly under the radar of accepted science, but a mainstream M.D. who is doing it with the support of the medical authorities. He had to petition the authority for permission to use this method. So, patients with life threatening or physically debilitating 'diseases' are being made well again using something so far from advanced pharma-science and their billions. He's doing it for pennies. How much does poop cost?

Yes, this is amazing isn't it? I know of one man who is a natural healer and advises people to eat either fecal matter or high meat. Since he is not an MD he does not do implants, however he does tell his clients to ingest fecal matter... and he allows them to choose which animal it comes from. His name is Aajuns Vonderplanitz, he was an autistic child and he cured himself through diet. He written a wonderful book, 'We Want To Live'. His website: http://www.wewant2live.com/ --I've put an interview with him at the end of this post.

I read his book after being exposed to Dr McBride's book. I theorized that my body might be lacking physiological e-coli (the good guy e-coli). My reading indicates that neither kefir nor sauerkraut contain this, and so I added 'high meat' to my diet based on Vonderplanitz's work. I was hoping that it might contain the proper e-coli my that would enhance my health. I could not find any studies proving this, however I knew from my research that 'high meat' could only enhance my health. So I made my own ... and took it every week or so.

High meat, in case you didn't read my earlier post, is fermented meat. You make it by cutting meat into marble sized cubes and allowing it to ferment in a jar in the refrigerator for a minimum of 30 days. You must allow it to have fresh air and 'breath' every few days for as long as you are fermenting it. It is still good a year later, as long as you take care of it by giving it occasional fresh air. It has a strong odor, so I only open my jar of high meat to eat it, or to allow it to breath... OUTSIDE... never in the house.

Strangely, I found that I actually crave high meat.... and for some odd reason it does not smell bad to me... this is strange (even to me). The only understanding I have about this is that my body must be benefiting from eating this probiotic food.

mVP9HqV8yoY

Spiral

9th September 2012, 19:50

Dawn

9th September 2012, 20:30

Spiral: I went vegetarian a few weeks ago and I am now crippled with the most horrendous bloating, I never eat anything with sugar or that is sweet, nor do I eat much processed food.

I developed IBS years ago, something I now put down to being in a massive state of high stress (PTSD to be exact ) following a series of bizarre psychic experiences, a vaccination against Flu & being abducted on a regular basis .

Spiral.. it is VERY important that you watch the YouTube interview with Aajuns Vonderplanitz 2 posts above this one!!!!!!!!!! You might wish to re-think being a vegetarian for now, as well as adding home made fermented foods to your diet.

I'm glad you found this thread too. By the way, I was a vegetarian for a large portion of my life... and that is likely one of the reasons my health has been weak. When I added in raw animal and fish protein + kefir and sauerkraut, my health began to turn around in a good way. My body loves these and they are very easy to digest.

Arrowwind

9th September 2012, 20:35

Eating fecal matter and fermented meat after sitting in the refrigerator for 30 days is disgusting... and you have no way of knowing if the correct pathogens are in there or if there is one there that will kill you like an e-coli variant or other parasites.

and I wouldn't recommend it to my dog, although he does it anyway...and dogs survive it because they have much more stomach acid than people do.

You can get all the good bacteria and fungi you need to correct almost any gut disorder, and hence other diseases, too, by eating fermented vegetable foods, komucha tea, and homemade keifer and raw salads. No need to go to a doctor any other type of idiot.

leavesoftrees

9th September 2012, 20:47

I occasionally read a local magazine about Research & Development in our town. Many advanced concepts are realized in this town of high technology. A local physician has begun the practice of infant fecal matter bowel implants. He has done over a dozen of them so far and has seen a 100% success rate, curing all manner of serious ailments. This is not my local naturopath, who has used this procedure slightly under the radar of accepted science, but a mainstream M.D. who is doing it with the support of the medical authorities. He had to petition the authority for permission to use this method. So, patients with life threatening or physically debilitating 'diseases' are being made well again using something so far from advanced pharma-science and their billions. He's doing it for pennies. How much does poop cost?

See how comical it is? The conventional doctor tells you to take the medication that costs $1,000 a pill and will add 2 months to your miserable life or you can allow him to shove dookie up your butt and add many quality years to your life. It becomes less funny when considering that 99 out of 100 would chose the expensive route. .

Hi Conk,

see this on fecal implants,

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3269844.htm

Quite simply, HPI involves infusing a patient with someone else's faeces. It's a confronting treatment, but one which patients suffering from the tummy superbug, Clostridium difficile, are prepared to undertake in order to get their lives back to normal. Maryanne Demasi follows one patient through the treatment process which has a remarkably high success rate.

Deanne
Yeah, I want to break free of these chains. A chronic illness, you really feel like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. Well it started off with bleeding from my bowel, which is pretty scary. And that's been kind of an ongoing thing. Extreme abdominal pain, sweats, fevers. Along with that, also a lot of depression as well, and anxiety.

NARRATION
It's unclear how, but Deanne caught a tummy bug called Clostridium difficile, or C.difficile. It's a super-bug that can be virtually impossible to treat.

Professor Thomas Borody
There is a percentage of patients with C.difficile infection, who will go into the relapsing stage where you cannot get rid of the bug, because it makes spores.

NARRATION
But Professor Thomas Borody has been using a radical treatment to cure this condition. I'd been reading literature and I came across this paper from 1958, where an inflammatory condition responded to restoration of the bowel flora.

NARRATION
It's called human probiotic infusion. Put simply, Deanne will be infused with someone else's faeces.

Professor Thomas Borody
We have a bank of donors who we know and we test every few weeks. Donors have to be healthy people who have been screened for any known possible disease and their stools are tested. With some saline, homogenised in a blender, filtered through a simple, kitchen-type filter until it's able to be injected through a channel inside the colonoscope.

Dr Maryanne Demasi
It's hard to believe that this faeces could be a medical therapy.

Professor Thomas Borody
Bowel flora is made up of huge numbers of bacteria. So poo is a zoo. It contains living animals, you can call it bacteria. So it's a living organ that lives inside our colon. It has a few jobs, including destroying the waste. It itself is not waste. And so the transplantation procedure brings in bacteria which were removed, and they implant. ...

conk

9th September 2012, 21:47

Yes, thanks leavesoftrees. Several of his cases involved the cdiff bacteria. And to be very clear, the procedure is more delicate than simply inserting fecal matter. They ensure the feces is clean and HIV free. Then it is soaked in sterile water for some time, then strained. This leaves murky water, rife with beneficial bacteria. This water is inserted at the beginning of the lower colon and allowed to reside for up to 45 minutes, then expelled.

Yet another vastly superior method of helping the body heal itself. It joins the list of UV light therapy, IV therapy, oxygenation, ozone injections, hydrogen peroxide, simple sunlight, UV blood irradiation, super nutrients, energy medicine, etc. that are largely ignored and even ridiculed by allopathic medicine. Mother Nature is not happy.

Dawn

10th September 2012, 00:48

Arrowind: Eating fecal matter and fermented meat after sitting in the refrigerator for 30 days is disgusting... and you have no way of knowing if the correct pathogens are in there or if there is one there that will kill you like an e-coli variant or other parasites...... and I wouldn't recommend it to my dog, although he does it anyway...and dogs survive it because they have much more stomach acid than people do.

Arrowind, I know that your reaction is normal for anyone in our culture. Luckily there are others who are willing to break cultural belief systems and patterns to find new answers. I swear to you that if you listen to Aajuns being interviewed on YouTube here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=550968&viewfull=1#post550968 ... and then read his book 'We Want To Live'... your attitude and beliefs will change 100%

The reason I put up this thread is because of the hell I went through in trying to find answers to my digestive issues. You might think that the things I chose to treat myself are disgusting... but they worked! No longer do I have to wear diapers when I leave the house. And no longer do I have food allergies. And... no longer do I have depression which I fight all day using spiritual techniques.

The people who have used these healing methods usually do so because nothing else has worked. Many people have been totally healed of colon cancer using 'high meat' and feces. High meat has a long history of use with the Eskimos. They call it 'high meat' because it leaves them feeling emotionally high and energized for 30-45 days. Imagine that! And from personal experience I'd say they are correct. Literally hundreds of clients have been healed using either 'high meat' or feces by Aajuns Vonderplanitz, who wrote 'We Want To Live'.

According to Aajuns, if you use raw organic meat or fish that has not been frozen then the proper bacteria naturally grow in it as it ferments.

So... here's the thing I always ask myself. What beliefs and conditioned responses are preventing me from moving forward? I'm glad I was willing to do all the things discussed in this thread. Even if other people think the things I've done are disgusting... I'm still glad I found them and did them. And someday, if you develop colon cancer, or Chrones disease, or IBS, I hope you have the courage to step out of your conditioned beliefs that these methods are disgusting! After all, even your dog knows that they work and are good for the body.

BECAUSE....

They WORK....

I am the living proof.... I am WELL.....

eileenrose

10th September 2012, 03:25

re: "Eileen, this post makes me so sad. Have you read this thread? BioK is not only expensive, but it doesn't work nearly as well as the kefir you can make for pennies. "

I don't mind trying to make kefir. I tried yogurt making once (no...twice) and both attempt were failures (though for different reasons...so it can be done...but the results may not live up to the usual expectations for yogurt). I was saying what I could buy (for this other person) that seemed to work as most products I can't tell if they work (but this I did ....a little bit...which is an improvement over nothing....but I havn't tried every product....so just asking what is out there that people know works.....not what they think works).

And currently making kefir would have to go on a list (which is so long I don't try to write it down now). For when I feel it can be done successfully and is worthwhile. And since you brought it up....I will take a look again at it (though probably later).

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And thanks for this " I used to take BioK and it never did heal my digestive tract like kefir has done. " ...just keeping track of people's success stories (they are few and far between....but just my opinion.....on this particular topic).

Dawn

10th September 2012, 03:34

Eileenrose: I don't mind trying to make kefir. I tried yogurt making once (no...twice) and both attempt were failures (though for different reasons...so it can be done...but the results may not live up to the usual expectations for yogurt)

Eileen, there isn't a commercial product out there that really works to heal and re-implant the gut like kefir. (by the way, commercial kefir isn't true kefir... the FDA will not allow real kefir to be sold to the public) True kefir is a glorious scientific mystery (even today) with a romantic history. http://www.kefir.biz/history.htm

You will find kefir VERY easy to make. Unlike yogurt you do NOT have to keep it warm or at a particular temperature... as long as you ferment it in the home or office where you spend your time. If your body is happy living and working in a space, then your kefir will be happy there too. There are some wonderful links in this thread earlier about kefir but I'll put in one here for you to look at. http://www.orhaolam.com/uploads/KefirInShort.pdf

Kefir should be the FIRST thing you try. There is a LOT of both scientific and anecdotal evidence that is really effective and repairing the immune system and thus the nervous system. That is why Dr. Mc Bride's book is titled , The Gut And Psychology Syndrome.

Dennis Leahy

10th September 2012, 04:02

...Kefir should be the FIRST thing you try. There is a LOT of both scientific and anecdotal evidence that is really effective and repairing the immune system and thus the nervous system. That is why Dr. Mc Bride's book is titled , The Gut And Psychology Syndrome.Now ya tell me hahahahahahaa

OK, well, success with first batch of kombucha (which is a yeast and bacteria product) under my belt, vegan (almond "milk") kefir (the other yeast and bacteria product) just moved up to the "next" spot at the top of my list...and since the cabbage is ready at the garden, I'll simultaneously be making my first batch of kimchi (or maybe sauerkraut - will make that decision in the next few days.)

Thanks, Dawn!

Dennis

eileenrose

10th September 2012, 06:32

Thanks for the pdf file on kefir (two posts above). I liked this part (since vitamin B is a big deal....very big deal....)

From Kerfir In Short:

"Rich in the B Vitamins: Kefir is an excellent source of Vitamin B7 (biotin), which aids the body's absorption
of other B vitamins, B1 (Thiamine), B2 (riboflavin) B3 (niacin), B6 (Pyridoxal phosphate), B9 (folic acid), and B12
(cobalamin). The many advantages of maintaining adequate B vitamin intake range from regulation of the
normal function of the kidneys, liver and central nervous system to helping promote.
It is known that people who experience depression are usually low in their B vitamins."

eileenrose

10th September 2012, 06:44

Not clear about what live kefir grains are, but went ahead and tried the contact information (given in post 136) to get some made/found? locally. thanks dawn. Will try to make some (we will see if it is easy or not to make).

Swan

10th September 2012, 07:01

ThePythonicCow

10th September 2012, 10:06

A question to Dawn: My son doesn´t tolerate milk very well. Will kefir made from milk be OK? Or should I try a vegan alternative?
I'm not Dawn ... but I would expect that Kefir would be easier for most people to digest than milk.

What usually causes problems for people digesting milk is the sugar in milk, known as lactose.

Fermenting the milk with kefir grains consumes most of the lactose.

eileenrose

10th September 2012, 10:43

More wheat issues:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/

"modern wheat a perfect chronic poison doctor says" article plus video

snip

Davis said that the wheat we eat these days isn't the wheat your grandma had: "It's an 18-inch tall plant created by genetic research in the '60s and '70s," he said on "CBS This Morning." "This thing has many new features nobody told you about, such as there's a new protein in this thing called gliadin. It's not gluten. I'm not addressing people with gluten sensitivities and celiac disease. I'm talking about everybody else because everybody else is susceptible to the gliadin protein that is an opiate. This thing binds into the opiate receptors in your brain and in most people stimulates appetite, such that we consume 440 more calories per day, 365 days per year."

Spiral

10th September 2012, 12:22

On the Kefir PDF it says you can use any animals milk, raw or pasteurized, but will it work with UHT milk ?

I'm going to be using goat milk when I get some grains as I'm intolerant to cow milk, just hope I can stomach it, what I can swallow or keep down has been an ongoing problem since infancy.

(mother issues probably :-( )

ThePythonicCow

10th September 2012, 13:18

On the Kefir PDF it says you can use any animals milk, raw or pasteurized, but will it work with UHT milk ?
I suppose it would work with ultra-high-temperature (UHT) processed milk, as the Kefir likely depends on the lactose ... but who in god's green earth would want to drink that crap? Its fats and other nutrients have been seriously damaged, such that it is no longer fit for supporting life. That's why it has such a long shelf life.

Spiral

10th September 2012, 14:18

Dennis Leahy

10th September 2012, 14:56

After a quick gloogle search (actually, it was IXQuick), here are a few sources for info on making almond milk kefir:

http://lindawagner.net/blog/2012/03/how-to-make-almond-milk-kefir/

http://www.netplaces.com/raw-food-recipes/gourmet-vegetarian-yogurts-and-cheese/almond-milk-kefir.htm

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-kefir-nondairy-milk-substitutes-almond-8201285.html

By the way, (the last article mentiones hemp "milk"), I would advise anyone to try the mildest milk substitutes first (almond and rice), soy is a whole topic unto itself (I'm now avoiding soy milk), and hemp milk is an acquired taste - one that I have not yet acquired. I really want to like hemp milk, but so far, only the chocolate one covers-up the taste adequately. Almond and Rice milk probably make thinner kefir than animal milk, and if the texture is just too thin, maybe a natural thickening agent (carageenan? arrowroot powder? or something else?) could thicken it.

Dennis

Arrowwind

10th September 2012, 15:08

Yet another vastly superior method of helping the body heal itself. It joins the list of UV light therapy, IV therapy, oxygenation, ozone injections, hydrogen peroxide, simple sunlight, UV blood irradiation, super nutrients, energy medicine, etc. that are largely ignored and even ridiculed by allopathic medicine. Mother Nature is not happy.

Yes, this method is much more acceptible because there is some, at least a little control as to what is taken in... still. remember, there are hundreds, if not thousands of microbes in stool that cannot be idenitifed by labs for they have not the capacity to do so. Anyone of these microbes can mutate under the influence of diet or drug use and percularities of individual physical terrain. Its my personal belief that many cancers are results of mutations of these microbes, as reflected in Rifes research, as well as others. How a microbe will behave in one terrain could be way different within another terrain. I suspect this procedure may not be without risk. Who is tracking what happens to these implanted microbes 1 year, 2 years and 5 years down the line within each new host? Is the disease picture of the individual changing and if so in just what ways? To me, every decline that results from there in, its cause may be suspect and related to the implantation.

Inserting microbes may be the allopathic response to dealing with a situation that they have not even tried to resolve with diets of fermented foods, komucha and keifer. Id like to know if these doctors doing these procedures are actually trying this first. I would like to see that these diet modifications have been tried and ruled out and proven not effective before such a radical treatment as fecal implants are attempted.

Just my offhand impression.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

On the Kefir PDF it says you can use any animals milk, raw or pasteurized, but will it work with UHT milk ?
I suppose it would work with ultra-high-temperature (UHT) processed milk, as the Kefir likely depends on the lactose ... but who in god's green earth would want to drink that crap? Its fats and other nutrients have been seriously damaged, such that it is no longer fit for supporting life. That's why it has such a long shelf life.

Yogurt doesnt make with ultra pasturized milk, so I suspect perhaps not with keifer also. Life begets life. Ultra pasturized milk is fully dead.

ThePythonicCow

10th September 2012, 18:02

I don't use milk as a rule, here in France its nearly all UHT !
Good grief !

I might suggest the wine instead :).

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Yogurt doesnt make with ultra pasteurized milk, so I suspect perhaps not with keifer also. Life begets life. Ultra pasteurized milk is fully dead.Aha - likely so.

conk

10th September 2012, 18:09

This is somewhat topical as it relates to digestion. From The Dark Side of Wheat, by Sayer Ji.

WHEAT: AN EXCEPTIONALLY UNWHOLESOME GRAIN.
Wheat presents a special case insofar as wild and selective breeding has produced variations which include up to 6 sets of chromosomes (3x the human genome worth!) capable of generating a massive number of proteins each with a distinct potentiality for antigenicity. Common bread wheat (Triticum aestivum), for instance, has over 23,788 proteins cataloged thus far. In fact, the genome for common bread wheat is actually 6.5 times larger than that of the human genome!
With up to a 50% increase in gluten content of some varieties of wheat, it is amazing that we continue to consider “glue-eating” a normal behavior, whereas wheat-avoidance is left to the “celiac” who is still perceived by the majority of health care practitioners as mounting a “freak” reaction to the consumption of something intrinsically wholesome.
Thankfully we don’t need to rely on our intuition, or even (not so) common sense to draw conclusions about the inherently unhealthy nature of wheat. A wide range of investigation has occurred over the past decade revealing the problem with the alcohol soluble protein component of wheat known as gliadin, the glycoprotein known as lectin (Wheat Germ Agglutinin), the exorphin known as gliadomorphin, and the excitotoxic potentials of high levels of aspartic and glutamic acid found in wheat. Add to these the anti-nutrients found in grains such as phytates, enzyme inhibitors, etc. and you have a substance which we may more appropriately consider the farthest thing from wholesome.
The remainder of this article will demonstrate the following adverse effects of wheat on both celiac and non-celiac populations: 1) wheat causes damage to the intestines 2) wheat causes intestinal permeability 3) wheat has pharmacologically active properties 4) wheat causes damage that is “out of the intestine” affecting distant organs 5) wheat induces molecular mimicry 6) wheat contains high concentrations of excitoxins.
1) WHEAT GLIADIN CREATES IMMUNE MEDIATED DAMAGE TO THE INTESTINES
Gliadin is classified as a prolamin, which is a wheat storage protein high in the amino acids proline and glutamine and soluble in strong alcohol solutions. Gliadin, once deamidated by the enzyme Tissue Transglutaminase, is considered the primary epitope for T-cell activation and subsequent autoimmune destruction of intestinal villi. Yet gliadin does not need to activate an autoimmune response, e.g. Celiac disease, in order to have a deleterious effect on intestinal tissue.
In a study published in GUT in 2007 a group of researchers asked the question: “Is gliadin really safe for non-coeliac individuals?” In order to test the hypothesis that an innate immune response to gliadin is common in patients with celiac disease and without celiac disease, intestinal biopsy cultures were taken from both groups and challenged with crude gliadin, the gliadin synthetic 19-mer (19 amino acid long gliadin peptide) and 33-mer deamidated peptides. Results showed that all patients with or without Celiac disease when challenged with the various forms of gliadin produced an interleukin-15-mediated response. The researchers concluded:
“The data obtained in this pilot study supports the hypothesis that gluten elicits its harmful effect, throughout an IL15 innate immune response, on all individuals [my italics].”
The primary difference between the two groups is that the celiac disease patients experienced both an innate and an adaptive immune response to the gliadin, whereas the non-celiacs experienced only the innate response. The researchers hypothesized that the difference between the two groups may be attributable to greater genetic susceptibility at the HLA-DQ locus for triggering an adaptive immune response, higher levels of immune mediators or receptors, or perhaps greater permeability in the celiac intestine. It is possible that over and above the possibility of greater genetic susceptibility, most of the differences are from epigenetic factors that are influenced by the presence or absence of certain nutrients in the diet. Other factors such as exposure to NSAIDs like naproxen or aspirin can profoundly increase intestinal permeability in the non-celiac, rendering them susceptible to gliadin’s potential for activating secondary adaptive immune responses. This may explain why in up to 5% of all cases of classically defined celiac disease the typical HLA-DQ haplotypes are not found. However, determining the factors associated greater or lesser degrees of susceptibility to gliadin’s intrinsically toxic effect should be a secondary to the fact that it is has been demonstrated to be toxic to both non-celiacs and celiacs.
2) WHEAT GLIADIN CREATES INTESTINAL PERMEABILITY
Gliadin upregulates the production of a protein known as zonulin, which modulates intestinal permeability. Over-expression of zonulin is involved in a number of autoimmune disorders, including celiac disease and Type 1 diabetes. Researchers have studied the effect of gliadin on increased zonulin production and subsequent gut permeability in both celiac and non-celiac intestines, and have found that “gliadin activates zonulin signaling irrespective of the genetic expression of autoimmunity, leading to increased intestinal permeability to macromolecules.”10 These results indicate, once again, that a pathological response to wheat gluten is a normal or human, species specific response, and is not based entirely on genetic susceptibilities. Because intestinal permeability is associated with wide range of disease states, including cardiovascular illness, liver disease and many autoimmune disorders, I believe this research indicates that gliadin (and therefore wheat) should be avoided as a matter of principle.

3) WHEAT GLIADIN HAS PHARMACOLOGICAL PROPERTIES
Gliadin can be broken down into various amino acid lengths or peptides. Gliadorphin is a 7 amino acid long peptide: Tyr-Pro-Gln-Pro-Gln-Pro-Phe which forms when the gastrointestinal system is compromised. When digestive enzymes are insufficient to break gliadorphin down into 2-3 amino acid lengths and a compromised intestinal wall allows for the leakage of the entire 7 amino acid long fragment into the blood, glaidorphin can pass through to the brain through circumventricular organs and activate opioid receptors resulting in disrupted brain function.
There have been a number of gluten exorphins identified: gluten exorphin A4, A5, B4, B5 and C, and many of them have been hypothesized to play a role in autism, schizophrenia, ADHD and related neurological conditions. In the same way that the celiac iceberg illustrated the illusion that intolerance to wheat is rare, it is possible, even probable, that wheat exerts pharmacological influences on everyone. What distinguishes the schizophrenic or autistic individual from the functional wheat consumer is the degree to which they are affected.
Below the tip of the “Gluten Iceberg,” we might find these opiate-like peptides to be responsible for bread’s general popularity as a “comfort food”, and our use of phrases like “I love bread,” or “this bread is to die for” to be indicative of wheat’s narcotic properties. I believe a strong argument can be made that the agricultural revolution that occurred approximately 10-12,000 years ago as we shifted from the Paleolithic into the Neolithic era was precipitated as much by environmental necessities and human ingenuity, as it was by the addictive qualities of psychoactive peptides in the grains themselves.
The world-historical reorganization of society, culture and consciousness accomplished through the symbiotic relationship with cereal grasses, may have had as much to do with our ability to master agriculture, as to be mastered by it. The presence of pharmacologically active peptides would have further sweetened the deal, making it hard to distance ourselves from what became a global fascination with wheat.
An interesting example of wheat’s addictive potential pertains to the Roman army. The Roman Empire was once known as the “Wheat Empire,” with soldiers being paid in wheat rations. Rome’s entire war machine, and its vast expansion, was predicated on the availability of wheat. Forts were actually granaries, holding up to a year’s worth of grain in order to endure sieges from their enemies. Historians describe soldiers’ punishment included being deprived of wheat rations and being given barley instead. The Roman Empire went on to facilitate the global dissemination of wheat cultivation which fostered a form of imperialism with biological as well as cultural roots.
The Roman appreciation for wheat, like our own, may have had less to do with its nutritional value as “health food” than its ability to generate a unique narcotic reaction. It may fulfill our hunger while generating a repetitive, ceaseless cycle of craving more of the same, and by doing so, enabling the surreptitious control of human behavior. Other researchers have come to similar conclusions. According to the biologists Greg Wadley & Angus Martin:
“Cereals have important qualities that differentiate them from most other drugs. They are a food source as well as a drug, and can be stored and transported easily. They are ingested in frequent small doses (not occasional large ones), and do not impede work performance in most people. A desire for the drug, even cravings or withdrawal, can be confused with hunger. These features make cereals the ideal facilitator of civilisation (and may also have contributed to the long delay in recognising their pharmacological properties).”
4) WHEAT LECTIN (WGA) DAMAGES OUR TISSUE.
Wheat contains a lectin known as Wheat Germ Agglutinin which is responsible for causing direct, non-immune mediated damage to our intestines, and subsequent to entry into the bloodstream, damage to distant organs in our body.
Lectins are sugar-binding proteins which are highly selective for their sugar moieties. It is believed that wheat lectin, which binds to the monosaccharide N-acetyl glucosamine (NAG), provides defense against predation from bacteria, insects and animals. Bacteria have NAG in their cell wall, insects have an exoskeleton composed of polymers of NAG called chitin, and the epithelial tissue of mammals, e.g. gastrointestinal tract, have a “sugar coat” called the glycocalyx which is composed, in part, of NAG. The glycocalyx can be found on the outer surface (apical portion) of the microvilli within the small intestine.
There is evidence that WGA may cause increased shedding of the intestinal brush border membrane, reduction in surface area, acceleration of cell losses and shortening of villi, via binding to the surface of the villi. WGA can mimic the effects of epidermal growth factor (EGF) at the cellular level, indicating that the crypt hyperplasia seen in celiac disease may be due to a mitogenic reponse induced by WGA. WGA has been implicated in obesity and “leptin resistance” by blocking the receptor in the hypothalamus for the appetite satiating hormone leptin. WGA has also been shown to have an insulin-mimetic action, potentially contributing to weight gain and insulin resistance.15 And, as discussed earlier, wheat lectin has been shown to induce IgA mediated damage to the kidney, indicating that nephropathy and kidney cancer may be associated with wheat consumption.
5) WHEAT PEPTIDES EXHIBIT MOLECULAR MIMICRY
Gliadorphin and gluten exporphins exhibit a form of molecular mimicry that affects the nervous system, but other wheat proteins effect different organ systems. The digestion of gliadin produces a peptide that is 33 amino acids long and is known as 33-mer which has a remarkable homology to the internal sequence of pertactin, the immunodominant sequence in the Bordetella pertussis bacteria (whooping cough). Pertactin is considered a highly immunogenic virulence factor, and is used in vaccines to amplify the adaptive immune response. It is possible the immune system may confuse this 33-mer with a pathogen resulting in either or both a cell-mediated and adaptive immune response against Self.
6) WHEAT CONTAINS HIGH LEVELS OF EXCITO-TOXINS
John B. Symes, D.V.M. is responsible for drawing attention to the potential excitotoxicity of wheat, dairy, and soy, due to their exceptionally high levels of the non-essential amino acids glutamic and aspartic acid. Excitotoxicity is a pathological process where glutamic and aspartic acid cause an over-activation of the nerve cell receptors (e.g. NMDA and AMPA receptor) leading to calcium induced nerve and brain injury. Of all cereal grasses commonly consumed wheat contains the highest levels of glutamic acid and aspartic acid. Glutamic acid is largely responsible for wheat’s exceptional taste. The Japanese coined the word umami to describe the extraordinary “yummy” effect that glutamic acid exerts on the tongue and palate, and invented monosodium glutamate (MSG) to amplify this sensation. Though the Japanese first synthesized MSG from kelp, wheat can also be used due to its high glutamic acid content. It is likely that wheat’s popularity, alongside its opiate-like activity, has everything to do with the natural flavor-enhancers already contained within it. These amino acids may contribute to neurodegenerative conditions such as Multiple sclerosis, Alzhemier’s, Huntington’s disease, and other nervous disorders such as Epilepsy, Attention Deficit Disorder and Migraines.

Eram

10th September 2012, 18:26

[/COLOR]

On the Kefir PDF it says you can use any animals milk, raw or pasteurized, but will it work with UHT milk ?
I suppose it would work with ultra-high-temperature (UHT) processed milk, as the Kefir likely depends on the lactose ... but who in god's green earth would want to drink that crap? Its fats and other nutrients have been seriously damaged, such that it is no longer fit for supporting life. That's why it has such a long shelf life.

Yogurt doesnt make with ultra pasturized milk, so I suspect perhaps not with keifer also. Life begets life. Ultra pasturized milk is fully dead.

I live in Belgium where some !@%$#wit made the decision to only allow UHT milk in the supermarket too, just like in France.
It IS possible to make kefir with that, because in the end.. all the kefir grains require is the lactose (milk-sugar) to ferment it into the goodies that we want and need so badly. I did it many times when we ran out of fresh milk (not raw because yukkie taste) that I buy from the organic farm a few hundred meters away.

ThePythonicCow

10th September 2012, 18:33

... I live in Belgium where ... when we ran out of fresh milk (not raw because yukkie taste)
Strange cows you have there in Belgium. Raw milk from Texas cows is yummy. :)

:) :cow: :)

Eram

10th September 2012, 18:56

No Paul... raw milk from Les 'Blanc bleu belge' is yummie too.

http://users.telenet.be/dewaterkant.be/fotos/100_8298%20(Small).jpg

It is the kefir that is produced from it that tastes like vomit from a narcoleptic Boar.

edit to add:

So I buy raw milk, which we drink at home and then for the kefir, I bring it to 70 C fahrenheit before cooling and adding it to the kefir grains :)

Eram

10th September 2012, 19:20

Thank you for this http://www.orhaolam.com/uploads/KefirInShort.pdf

My kefir grains are on their way :)

A question to Dawn: My son doesn´t tolerate milk very well. Will kefir made from milk be OK? Or should I try a vegan alternative?

Hi Swan,

Depending on what your son does not tolerate about milk, will determine if he can stand the kefir.
If it is the lactose that he is allergic too, then kefir is no problem for him. The lactose is eaten bye the kefir grians.
My girlfriend is lactose intolerant also and she drinks kefir... no problem.

There is always the possibility to make water kefir if this turns out bad for him.

Good luck with your first batch... exciting :)

oeps.... just saw that Paul posted the same answer... sorry!

meat suit

10th September 2012, 21:43

I make my kefir with goats milk. very nice...
by the way my kids prefer goats milk to cows milk.... its easier on the guts and it also lasts much longer..
also, I heard that goats milk was used by humans for thousands of years before cows milk, therefore there is much bettere tolerance...

Arrowwind

11th September 2012, 04:28

.... its easier on the guts and it also lasts much longer..
also, I heard that goats milk was used by humans for thousands of years before cows milk, therefore there is much bettere tolerance...

I have goats milk too but after the third day it goes to the cats.. over three days the milk tastes the way a goat smells... before then its just fine.

ThePythonicCow

11th September 2012, 06:52

I have goats milk too but after the third day it goes to the cats.. over three days the milk tastes the way a goat smells... before then its just fine.
It works the other way around in my household. The cat prefers milk (raw cows milk in this case) less than three days old, but I am happy with it up to a week or ten days old :).

Eram

11th September 2012, 07:20

I don't know what the Texan cows are being fed Paul, but the raw milk from our cows here, turns sour after 2 days, 3 days if with luck :confused:

or do you like your milk sour?

ThePythonicCow

11th September 2012, 08:07

I don't know what the Texan are being fed Paul, but the raw milk from our cows here, turns sour after 2 days, 3 days if with luck :confused:

or do you like your milk sour?
I don't like sour ... but I do keep my refrigerator very cold, nearly freezing where the milk is.

The key to keeping fresh milk fresh is keeping the temperature within a few degrees of freezing.

I use an infrared thermometer (Fluke 62) to measure the temperature ... a useful gadget around the kitchen:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W9yZ9Fn9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Arrowwind

11th September 2012, 11:51

[, but I am happy with it up to a week or ten days old :).

:bad:

on the other hand raw cows milk seems to keep up to 6 days here.
your cats are kinda prissy. Mine will drink it after sitting around for a couple of days.
I know a guy who puts his raw milk on the counter for days then drinks it... double yuck.

Maybe I need a colder frige.

Dennis Leahy

11th September 2012, 16:57

My second batch of kombucha went too far toward vinegar. I "knew" it when I tasted the batch prior to the second fermentation, but (inexperienced) I thought that the added juice and sugar at the beginning of the second fermentation would "save" the batch. It did not.

I'm told it makes good hair rinse and foot soak.

Damn!

ph test strips have now been ordered. (Winemakers need test strips with the same ph range.)

Dennis

Arrowwind

11th September 2012, 17:58

leavesoftrees

11th September 2012, 22:13

I don't know what the Texan are being fed Paul, but the raw milk from our cows here, turns sour after 2 days, 3 days if with luck :confused:

or do you like your milk sour?

that's the reason why I stopped drinking raw milk. It tastes great when you first open it, but 2 days later it's soured. At almost $5.00 a litre, it gets a bit wasteful to chuck it out. And I wonder how good it is to use soured milk for kefir
I don't like sour ... but I do keep my refrigerator very cold, nearly freezing where the milk is.

The key to keeping fresh milk fresh is keeping the temperature within a few degrees of freezing.

I use an infrared thermometer (Fluke 62) to measure the temperature ... a useful gadget around the kitchen:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W9yZ9Fn9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

How do you manage to keep the milk section near freezing? do you put your milk in the freezer or do you have a super dooper fridge that has different temperature controls? Maybe I need to upgrade my 30 year old fridge

ThePythonicCow

11th September 2012, 23:27

How do you manage to keep the milk section near freezing? do you put your milk in the freezer or do you have a super dooper fridge that has different temperature controls? Maybe I need to upgrade my 30 year old fridge
I've got a basic model cheapo ordinary refrigerator that came with my Texas trailer a few years ago. It has one temperature control, which affects in various odd ways the temperature throughout both the refrigerator and freezer compartments. I set it so that where the milk usually resides is the temperature I want for the milk. The rest of refrigerator takes on whatever temperatures result from doing so.

Ol' Roy

12th September 2012, 00:22

Dawn, my dear. I think you have really made a hit! This thread is so valuable! It is a wakeup call for many of us, who have suffered throughout the years.

I have seen Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride's presentation before. Maybe through you, in April or someone else on this great forum. It clicked then, but I guess I was focusing on autism. Which in itself is a remarkable cure.

There are sooo many commericials on TV for probiotics, Activia(yogurt) and other high cultered(live) bacteria. I get a ton of these through the mail!

You know Dawn you have become sort of a Guru on this subject. THIS WAS NOT YOUR INTENT! You have so nicely given the information to people. Everybody do your own research.

Anyhow, I am going to buy the book. Gut and Psychology Syndrome.

Dawn, I would like to PM you about your experience in Peru. Fell free to share on Avalon. It's about my brother's health.

Hope you have a chance to go outside between your moding, being a significant other, and saving the world, one person at a time!

Love ya!

Arrowwind

12th September 2012, 01:57

There are sooo many commericials on TV for probiotics, Activia(yogurt) and other high cultered(live) bacteria. I get a ton of these through the mail!

!

Just some general thoughts regard ing Acitiva, a bacteria called regularis,, I suspect that it was culturally engineered and I would stay away from it.

MiguelQ

12th September 2012, 02:38

all them are genetic modified, im almost sure. im geneticist, and i read about it. otherwise would not make sense to patent it right?? the actimel is made by them too. But, im not sure if there is really anything bad.. i understand why genetic modifying comes into play.. But in the end we'll never know.

And besides , i read a scientific paper, that tested the concentration of the bacteria, on the yogurt, to see if significant chnages occur. And conclusion is.. No siginificant, improvement, on the body immune functions. At delivered dosis!!
Sorry not having the link, but maybe, PUBMED CAN HELP.. lactus immunitas

Czarek

12th September 2012, 03:10

I've been using this book for my kefir production with great success for some time now.
18181

Dawn

12th September 2012, 05:21

I check out my thread often with the intention of educating myself and also of keeping them on topic. Yesterday when I opened this thread I was amazed to find all the wealth of posts. I'd like to add a couple of things to the general discussion.

Quote Posted by Swan (here)
A question to Dawn: My son doesn´t tolerate milk very well. Will kefir made from milk be OK? Or should I try a vegan alternative?

1. There is so much information out there about raw milk vs pasteurized milk. I was going to write a short note about it... however the topic is so rich that I don't know how to shorten it. Here's the truth in a nutshell:
****Raw milk is one of the best and most easily digested foods on the planet.
****Once milk is heated (pasteurized) in any way it is a toxic food which is very hard to digest
If you Google 'raw milk benefits' you will find so much information to back up the above statements that you may be amazed.
Here's just ONE link: http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_milk_health_benefits.html

2. 99% of people allergic to milk are NOT allergic to RAW milk... and almost everyone who shows allergic symptoms is NOT ALLERGIC TO KEFIR. So, do not let fear of milk allergy stop you from using this healing food. However, if you are in the .001% of people who still is sensitive then you can get most of the same benefits with living sauerkraut and living pickles. (PS: the reason that kefir is not an allergen is that all milk sugar is absent in home made kefir)

Whakytweaky: I buy raw milk, which we drink at home and then for the kefir, I bring it to 70 C Fahrenheit before cooling and adding it to the kefir grains

Whakytweaky- I read all your posts about kefir and raw milk. You might be motivated to retrain your taste buds if you read the information about raw milk in the link above. Almost every vitamin, mineral, protein, and enzyme it contains is made unavailable by heating it. How could kefir help but be a better food if made with raw milk? Most people can't even get raw milk any more, you are very lucky to have a source.

3. Kefir lasts a LOOOOOONG time in the refigerator after it is made and... if you leave it at room temp it will just continue to ferment until it becomes cheese and whey. I use the whey as a salad dressing base instead of vinegar and I blend the cheese with garden herbs. So kefir is an excellent way to store fresh raw milk.

4. You can make pretty good kefir from reconstituted powdered milk according to online articles about it... so kefir cultures are pretty tough and not too picky. But milk kefir will not live in almond milk, coconut milk, or hemp milk. For these you need water kefir.

5. I have been giving away kefir starter to almost anyone who is willing to try to begin healing their digestion. At least one person let her's die because she said it smelled like 'vomit' when it was fermenting on her kitchen counter. (same reaction you had WhackyTweaky) However, she came to me for a 2nd starter because she got online and read about the benefits. Now she cultures the kefir as I do, with a tight lid on to capture the effervescence, and doesn't have any reaction to the smell or taste of the kefir any longer. So, if the smell of kefir is an issue to you this simple solution might help? (be sure the lid is plastic, or at least coated with plastic so the lactic acid in the kefir won't react with it!)

ThePythonicCow

12th September 2012, 06:45

I am on a fairly recent journey that involves re-remembering something about health that I had forgotten along the way. This has changed my health in dramatic and unexpected ways over a short period... and there will be more changes for me to come as I progress through this deep healing path.
This thread continues to be perhaps the most valuable thread in the "Alternative Medicine & Sciences" sub-forum ... so I just made it "Sticky" so it would be easier for others to find it.

conk

12th September 2012, 16:26

Likely stating the obvious, but for the beginners in this endeavor know the following: Most commercial probiotics are near worthless. You must spend a little extra to obtain quality. Even the best probiotics contain 'only' around 30 to 50 billions measures of bacteria, whereas one serving of good fermented food can contain trillions.

As for most store bought yogurt? Nothing more than soft candy. Especially the fat free kind. Almost no measureable bacteria. Too much sugar. And one of the most nutritous aspects, the fat, is removed. Dairy fat contains Conjugated Linoic Acid (CLA), a very healthful fat. It even aids in reducing belly fat.

Dawn

12th September 2012, 19:55

I'm going to 'tell on myself' in this post. I have been a known celiac for about 20 years. During this time I learned to associate pastries, bread, pizza and so on with feeling distinctly unwell and I eventually lost all desire for it. Afterall, when you look at something you know will make you sick, your desire for it falls away. However... in the dusty recesses of my memory lurkes the recollection of baking home made bread and the aroma that filled the house on bread baking day (not to mention the taste of pasteries).

Well, somewhere in something I've read about this process of healing the digestive system, I read that wheat intolerance would be 'overcome' as the intestines healed. So, I tried a wonderful piece of sourdough bread with real butter about 2 weeks ago... YUM! I didn't get ill, so I tried it again a week later, and then again yesterday. I knew better, but this powerful addictive substance had a sirens call and I succumbed. Today I am paying for my transgressions with a very sore abdomen and nausea, along with general feeling of being unwell. I knew better, but apparently I had to prove it to myself again.

http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/italianbread.jpg
If you haven't yet looked at CONK's wonderful post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=551495&viewfull=1#post551495
You owe it to yourself to read this very carefully. In order to remain healthy NO ONE should be eating any wheat products.

Did you read the part about wheat causing
......kidney cancer and nephritus?
......Heart Disease?
......autism?
......schizophrenia?
......leaky gut?

It appears that if we use cultured food to heal our digestive systems, we will still not be able to heal if we are eating bread and cereals. Beware.... Be Aware....

And... there is evidence that potatoes and rice act in much the same way and are also addictive and toxic.

conk

12th September 2012, 20:18

Dawn, the gluten in wheat paralyzes the tiny villi in the colon, making them lie flat. Without being able to raise their little heads they can't scoop up the nutrients we need. Also, it does not take long for the extremely thin mucus lining to erode, allowing unwanted particles to cross over and make their way into the blood stream. The last thing you want in your blood are undigested proteins.

Potatoes and possibly other nightshade type veggies contain tiny 'razor blades' that are used as defense mechanisms by the plant. There are some that believe these little shard like items harm the gut.

I'm with you on the bread. Nothing makes me smile like hot bread, butter, and jam or raw honey. Well, maybe scantily clad women holding buttered bread.....that would net a bigger smile. But, I abstain (from bread, not women). Sometimes I'll make something from ground quinoa and smother it in raw butter and mama's homemade jam. Hmmmmmmm!

Dennis Leahy

12th September 2012, 20:55

Im not all that uncertain that a vinegar taste is bad. Vinegar historically is very good for you. If you subscribe to that kombucha news letter I posted the link to they explain all this stuff over time
Hi Arrowwind,

It went far beyond the range of palatability. I was pretty sure it was way too acidic after the first ferment, but in my inexperience, I was hoping that 1-1/2ozs grape juice and 1/2tsp sugar at the beginning of the second ferment was enough to "bring it back". Alas, over the edge is over the edge. Batch 3 started, and ph strips will be here in days.

I did follow-up on the link (now that you mentioned it again), but haven't gotten a newsletter yet.

:~)

Dennis

Dennis Leahy

12th September 2012, 21:05

I was thinking like conk (not about the scantily clad women...well, not right now), but was thinking of all the other myriad flours on the market now. I know from having eaten some gluten-free muffins and such that it just ain't the same as wheat. Gluten makes chewy. I wonder if the other flours were kneaded, if they would stretch and get a more chewy texture, or just turn to mush.

Sorry to hear about your tough lesson, Dawn, and thanks for your candor. It sounds very much like something I would do.

Dennis

ThePythonicCow

12th September 2012, 21:32

Gluten makes chewy. I wonder if the other flours were kneaded, if they would stretch and get a more chewy texture, or just turn to mush.
From http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/copingwiththediet/a/What-Is-Gluten.htm:

The gluten in wheat, barley and rye actually consists of two proteins: gliadin and glutenin. When the two combine during the baking process, they form a thick, stretchy, glue-like substance that provides bread and other baked goods with elasticity and appealing texture.
From http://www.iamm.com/gluten.htm

The GLUTEN present in wheat, rye, barley is water-insoluble.
Water insoluble Gluten, is detrimental to everyone’s good health and wellbeing.

Not all gluten is water insoluble.

Water soluble gluten in corn and rice etc. can be broken down in water.
From http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-gluten-attacks-the-intestine-in-celiacs.html

When someone with celiac disease eats the gluten found in wheat, rye, or barley, everything goes along just fine until the gluten reaches the small intestine.

The first thing that goes wrong is that the grain causes the body — in all humans, not just celiacs — to produce too much of the protein zonulin. This excess causes the junctions between cells in the small intestine to open too much. All sorts of things — like toxins and gluten fragments — can get into the bloodstream, a condition known as leaky gut syndrome.

In people with celiac disease, the body sees gluten fragments as invaders — toxins that shouldn’t be there. So it launches an all-out attack against these invaders, but the body also attacks itself, which is why celiac disease is classified as an autoimmune disease.

Specifically, the body attacks the villi on the lining of the small intestine. As the villi get chopped down — blunted is the technical term — they can no longer be as effective in absorbing nutrients. That’s why you see malabsorption (poor nutrient absorption) and nutritional deficiencies in people with celiac disease who still eat gluten.

Because the food is just passing through without being absorbed the way it’s supposed to be, celiacs sometimes suffer from diarrhea. The small intestine is nearly 22 feet long, and damage from celiac disease starts at the upper part — so there’s lots of small intestine to compensate for the damaged part that’s not able to do its job. That means by the time you develop diarrhea, you’re usually a very sick puppy.

Arrowwind

12th September 2012, 21:42

I know from having eaten some gluten-free muffins and such that it just ain't the same as wheat. Gluten makes chewy. I wonder if the other flours were kneaded, if they would stretch and get a more chewy texture, or just turn to mush.

Maybe adding lots of seeds to the bread may help with the chewy factor, like sunflower seeds, lots of 'em, and flax.
With all the bad rap on wheat flour Im going to be experimenting with making bread half and half.. half wheat and half something else.
Half an evil isn't as evil as a whole evil right? I dont think I'll be able to get my DH to give up wheat bread... I could do it easily, but not him so comprimise will have to be the answer.

Dawn

13th September 2012, 04:12

ME in an earlier post: If you haven't yet looked at CONK's wonderful post here: WHEAT: AN EXCEPTIONALLY UNWHOLESOME GRAIN. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=551495&viewfull=1#post551495)
You owe it to yourself to read this very carefully. In order to remain healthy NO ONE should be eating any wheat products.

Here's the shocking truth... scientists have discovered that 100% (!!!!!) of humans are damaged by eating wheat. Celaic's have allergic reactions, but EVERYONE is still poisoned and their intestines, heart, nervous systems, and kidneys are damaged... even if they have no outward allergic signs.

That means that YOU are being poisoned by wheat if you are eating it.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHRfZK6me9TCUu4-VTCWz0UTS20DnYE3puyG3BH7UuwsmTRonI

Arrowwind

17th September 2012, 14:12

As they say, we all pick our poisons.

I would like to read that research first hand. Anyone know where it is?

I thought it pertained only to the newer hybridized wheat, not the wheat our grandparents ate.

Dawn, that link doesn't work.

onawah

17th September 2012, 14:52

updated: I had to come back and edit this post and apologize, because I later realized it wasn't GMO wheat I meant to ask about, but organic wheat as opposed to commercial wheat--grown in commercial fertilizer, sprayed with insecticides, etc.

I was wondering if research has been done comparing commercial and organic wheat to determine if allergic people have different reactions, because I doubt that there was this huge number of people with celiac disease before commercial farming practices became the norm.

I believe some studies were done using sprouted wheat, which showed that for some people who could not otherwise tolerate wheat, sprouted wheat was acceptable.

There may be several different factors at work here which have not yet been sufficiently separated out in the research, such as organic vs commercially grown, sprouted vs raw, etc.

conk

17th September 2012, 15:20

Here's an interesting bit of information I learned from Dr. Bruce Lipton, by way of the gentleman doing the Body Talk seminar (good thread, by the way http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47234-Body-Talk-System ). There are at least 10 bacteria in or on every cell in the human body. That would be 30 trillion x 10. Then there are multiply trillions of bacteria outside/surrounding the cells, hundreds of trillions in fact. So, there are vastly more bacteria in the body than there are cells! We are walking, talking germ sacks. Bag of bugs, we are! This fact is yet more concrete evidence of the near immesurable benefit bacteria hold for us.

Ignore the ranting and raving of The Medical Mafia as they pretend pathogens are the cause of all disease. There is no disease! There are nutritional deficiencies, ingesting of toxins, emotional trauma that lingers as an energy block, inherited negative frequencies, faulty assumptions held in the sub-mind, or an unwanted entity using the body as a host. Did I miss any other cause?

Dennis Leahy

17th September 2012, 15:57

ThePythonicCow

17th September 2012, 16:20

... ingesting of toxins ... Did I miss any other cause?
breathing in toxins, inserting toxins via dental (mercury fillings, root canals) and cancer (radiation, chemo, ...) treatments, ... :)

ThePythonicCow

17th September 2012, 16:27

Dawn, that link doesn't work.

Here's that link: Conk's post # 149: (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=551495&viewfull=1#post551495)WHEAT: AN EXCEPTIONALLY UNWHOLESOME GRAIN. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=551495&viewfull=1#post551495)

I fixed the link quoted in Dawn's post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=552597&viewfull=1#post552597).

Dawn

20th September 2012, 08:47

I love this thread. It is so rich with shared information. It is thought that the mitochondria within each and every cell in our body is a bacteria. They have their own DNA, they like light (read the links at www.theledman.com), and they make all the energy for the cells to keep them alive (in the form of ATP). The most active cells (in the heart, liver, eyes etc) have over 1000 mitochondria within them which allows them to have the energy to do their jobs. As people age, the number of mitochondria within their cells diminishes and this is thought to be one of the causes of the slow down which occurs in aging.

I have begun craving kefir in a way which would be scary if I didn't know how good it is for me. I am now drinking about 2 quarts of it daily... and I have developed a taste for it in a really sour, or advanced state of fermentation. As I have increased my kefir intake, I have found that my body is showing new signs of detoxing. According to articles on kefir it is a very effective liver cleanse. I even have emotional releases on some days, followed by foul smelling stool a few hours later which will continue for as much as 24 hours.

I feel physically more healthy and strong when I eat raw foods, so almost everything I eat is raw. At this point in my process I stick to liquids until about 2:30-3:00PM, after which I eat solid food. This allows my liver and other organs to detox all morning and into the early afternoon. My morning food consists of kefir and freshly made green juice. At first I found green juice, without any sweet additions like apple or carrot, to taste unpleasant. However, as the months have rolled by, my taste buds have changed. Now plain greens that are juiced taste sweet to me, just as they are. I vary my daily juice recipe depending on what is ready to harvest from my garden, and what is in season at the organic farmers stand. This summer I learned that zucchini squash has just about more juice than anything else in the garden. They make a wonderful dark green juice, when I use the variety with dark green skin.

My solid food, which I begin eating in the afternoon usually consists of some raw meat and/or fish as well as sauerkraut and fresh vege leaves. For desert I love berries and raw cream mixed with cultured sour cream. Yum... Occasionally I have home made buttered popcorn for a treat, but it is definitely harder for my body to digest than the other raw foods I eat.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8VaC-P4LZg73hprquM3QXi9un24ZJQgb-jSZVtLeZ6gQD59L3rw

I'd love to hear from others... how are you doing on your program with kefir, sauerkraut, and other fermented foods? Have you noticed any changes?

Swan

20th September 2012, 09:23

I have been giving kefir to my children for about 10 days now. My son doesn´t tolerate milk protein very well, but I decided to let him try kefir anyway.
He loves it!
He has had tummy problems for most of his life and Iam hoping that the kefir and fermented vegetables we have been eating for 6 months now, will help him heal. He loves fermented cabage and carrots too! ( Funny -my daughter, who does not have any tummy issues, is a lot less keen on fermented foods )

Dawn, how do you make your kefir? I leave mine for 24 hrs with the grains, and then another 24 hrs with a lid a room temperature.

Dawn

20th September 2012, 10:26

Swan: My son doesn´t tolerate milk protein very well, but I decided to let him try kefir anyway.
He loves it! ....Dawn, how do you make your kefir? I leave mine for 24 hrs with the grains, and then another 24 hrs with a lid a room temperature.

Great report Swan. I have all of my friends started on it and give extra grains away every few weeks. One thing I've learned is that it is best to start SMALL. Dr McBride (see post at thread beginning) recommends that people start with a spoonful, and increase the amount slowly, to avoid severe herxheimer detoxing reactions. If your son has any difficulties, you might need to reduce the amount he is taking, and build up slowly.

It is difficult to quantify how to make kefir. Daily temperatures in most homes vary with the weather, and warmer weather affects how rapidly kefir will ferment milk.... Then there is the quantity of grains you put into the jar to begin with. The key is to watch for the milk in your kefir culture to begin to separate into curds. When you look through the sides of your culture jar, you will begin to notice slightly yellowish clear whey forming. This is a sign that your kefir is done. Leaving it out longer makes it more tangy, and increases the lactic acid content, as well as reducing any remaining milk sugar. When you decide it is finished depends on your personal taste buds.

Some of the things I do personally to make the sour tangy taste I like most include these:

1. I do not wash out the culture jar, which builds up a layer of healthy kefir organisms on the glass. I put the grains back in the coated jar and add slightly warmed milk to within 1inch of the top. Lots of living kefir organisms assure me that I will get maximum fermentation. The 1 inch headroom allows the kefir to expand as it fills with bubbles.

2. I screw the cap tightly onto my jar because I like the fermentation bubbles which form within the beverage that I drink. They bubbles make it slightly effervescent, which I love. However many people just cover it with a cheesecloth and let the gasses made by the kefir organisms escape into the air.

3. I like to leave mine out an extra 6 hours or so at room temperature, after I've strained it, if I'm in the mood for a REALLY sour kefir. Otherwise it goes into the refrigerator as soon as I strain it. When I leave it out, it becomes very lumpy as new curds form within it- my partner doesn't like the lumpy texture of well formed curds. Often I put it through the colander a second time if I've left it out on the counter, just to smooth out the curds and break them up again.

4. I've taken to opening the culture jar and stirring my kefir after about 6 hours. This makes the process go more quickly as it puts milk sugar in contact with the grains which tend to rise to the top of the container as they create fermentation gas. My kefir is ready almost 6 hours faster if I stir it midway in the process. However, you can make great kefir if you skip this step.

5. I use raw milk. I can still get it in California, thanks to some very active grass roots people, who have fought the good fight to keep it available. My friends, who use pasteurized milk, do not seem to have as much success as I do. Their grains do not multiply and double every 3 weeks as mine do, and some have come to me for new starter cultures, because theirs died or acquired an 'off' flavor. Likely they did not take the care I do in feeding theirs frequently... however the raw milk I use could be an advantage.

6. And... be SURE you are NOT using any metal when working with your kefir. It is very acidic and will dissolve the metal. This makes the kefir somewhat toxic and will eventually kill your culture. I use a wooden spoon, a glass culture jar with a plastic lid, and a plastic colander.

Swan

20th September 2012, 10:47

Thank you for the info Dawn. I did use a metal strainer ( stainless steel ) the first couple of times, but now I just fish the grains out with a plastic spoon.

I read the Kefir links mentioned above and find it fascinating that that real kefir grains cannot be manufactured. And that noone really knows where they came from originally.

Magic :)

Eram

20th September 2012, 11:29

5. I use raw milk. I can still get it in California, thanks to some very active grass roots people, who have fought the good fight to keep it available. My friends, who use pasteurized milk, do not seem to have as much success as I do. Their grains do not multiply and double every 3 weeks as mine do, and some have come to me for new starter cultures, because theirs died or acquired an 'off' flavor. Likely they did not take the care I do in feeding theirs frequently... however the raw milk I use could be an advantage.

I don't know about that Dawn,

My sister lives in Gomera (one of the Canary islands) and is only able to get UHT milk, not raw or pasteurised milk.
Her Kefir grains multiply every few weeks also, as do ours as a matter of fact, but we use heated raw milk up to 70/75 celcius.
I think it has to do with treating the grains how they like it and never abuse them :) (metal, contact with chlorided water, different sorts of milk etc etc).

congratulations with your son loving the kefir Swan.
I'll bet it will make a big difference for him.

Our son doesn't love it, but sweetened with stevia, he will drink a glass a day (under protest :P).
He begins to understand though, that his gut likes it and and that his digestion is doing much better now.

Our youngest (2 years) doesn't like it eather, but now that she sees her brother drink it every day, she tries it out now and then.
Also, we play games with the kefir, makes funny faces when drinking and saying... a bit weird........ but....... yummie for the tummie , and she like playing it and so... in the end she will get used to it too.

Flash

20th September 2012, 11:43

... that link doesn't work.
Here's that link: Conk's post # 149: (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=551495&viewfull=1#post551495)WHEAT: AN EXCEPTIONALLY UNWHOLESOME GRAIN. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=551495&viewfull=1#post551495)

Dennis

Now we will have to check on rice as well - of course, the FDA does not agree with the report. But it was in Canadian News yesterday and it seems that our Canadian agency agrees a lot with it.

In English:

CTV news: very good explanations from scientist

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/consumer-groups-urge-standards-for-arsenic-in-rice-1.962179

Consumer report

http://fr-ca.actualites.yahoo.com/vid%C3%A9o/desmoineskcci-18191122/consumer-groups-warns-of-arsenic-in-rice-30643252.html#crsl=%252Fvid%25C3%25A9o%252Fdesmoin eskcci-18191122%252Fconsumer-groups-warns-of-arsenic-in-rice-30643252.html

conk

20th September 2012, 18:13

Dawn, good to read about you eating raw meat. I'm going to start as soon as I get my zero freezer, then buy a side of grass-fed (and NOT grain finished) beef. If eating it raw sounds like a bad idea, do some homework friends. Quality raw meat is quite nutritious. Eating it as chevichi (sp?) may make it more palatable, especially the fish.

I read earlier in the thread that you eat high meat. How long and how do you age it? How does it taste?

Dawn

20th September 2012, 20:32

Flash: Now we will have to check on rice as well - of course, the FDA does not agree with the report. But it was in Canadian News yesterday and it seems that our Canadian agency agrees a lot with it.

Wow... I've totally missed this info until now. I did not realize that arsenic has been fed to farm animals to fatten them... then the manure is filled with it so that when it enriches the soil it also taints it. Jeezzz..... Just when I think I've an idea of just how far the poisoning of humanity has spread I am always amazed that I'm only looking at the tip of the iceberg. Since I've been on the GAPS diet I'm really eating almost no grains or seeds. I do cheat with popcorn from time to time, but not regularly. No wonder so many people are having a hard time awakening. Arsenic can't be good for the brain and nervous system in long term exposure... and then there is the cancer stimulating effect. Oh well. I guess I'll continue avoiding grains in my diet.

Conk: Dawn, good to read about you eating raw meat. I'm going to start as soon as I get my zero freezer, then buy a side of grass-fed (and NOT grain finished) beef. If eating it raw sounds like a bad idea, do some homework friends. Quality raw meat is quite nutritious. Eating it as chevichi (sp?) may make it more palatable, especially the fish.

I read earlier in the thread that you eat high meat. How long and how do you age it? How does it taste?

Conk, I've mentioned this a couple of times in this thread, and the response varied from skipping my post as though it had not happened, to answering posts saying that this was 'disgusting'. It is very refreshing to have someone with an open mind step into curiosity about it.

Fresh Raw Meat and Fish: The 'authority' I've read and learned from on this matter is Aajonus Vonderplanitz's, his website has lots of great information http://www.wewant2live.com/. His personal story is very dramatic and very convincing. He has led hundreds of people into health with his methods. He advocated raw meat and fish that has NOT been frozen because freezing changes the food so that is 'dead'. A freezer sounds so wonderful, but according to him this is not the answer.

High Meat. This was so named by the Eskimos because it made them 'happy' and 'strong' .. or 'high'

I followed Aajonus in making mine and his directions are very specific, and very easy. I made 'high' fish, chicken, and beef in the beginning. You must wait 30 days before you eat it, because it undergoes a specific process with different types of bacteria and breakdown substances present at different stages of fermentation. Aajonus spent quite a bit of time living with native tribes and he learned about this through them. The Eskimos bury their 'high' meat in grass lined pits in the ground and cover with soil. For the rest of us... the refrigerator works something like the grass pit, provided you let your sealed jar breathe every 3 days or so and leave lots of room in the jar for air to feed the fermentation process.

I eventually gave away the high fish and chicken I'd made to someone who is also working on his health. I kept the beef based high meat for me. Strangely they all seemed to taste the same, but I like the darker color of the beef. At this point my high meat is about 5 months old. The taste of it is bland and the texture is a little more chewy than raw meat. I find eating it a pleasant experience. The odor can be an issue however, because the bacteria in it create a strong smell. Aajonus actually suggested in his book that you plug your nose when consuming this.

My body recognizes this as food however. I was surprised in the beginning that, while my mind thinks the odor is icky, my body actually salivates when it desires some. In the beginning I ate 1-3 marble sized pieces every 2-3 days (I really had to use restraint because I wanted to devour the whole jar at once!) My body had not problem digesting it and in fact a sense of warmth and life spread throughout my body almost immediately after eating it.

Now I only eat 'high meat' every 2-3 weeks, when there is a desire for it. I am letting my body lead me here. I agree with Aajonus about the emotional effect of this meat. I really do find that I am consistently happy for weeks after I eat high meat. Aajonus says the effect last for 6 weeks. I don't know if that is true because I haven't been able to last beyond 3 weeks before I start craving it.

After reading about the effect on brain chemistry of bacteria in the gut, I'm making an educated guess that a bacteria is present in this product which can live in the colon, and which makes brain food for its host.

Here's the recipe again for interested readers:
1. Use ONLY raw UNFROZEN fresh organic meat from chicken, turkey, fish, beef, or other animal
2. Cut it into marble sized pieces
3. Place in a jar 1/2 or less full so there is a lot of air above the meat and close the lid TIGHTLY
4. Every 3 days take the jar OUTSIDE and open the lid. Wave the jar around for a minute or so to provide fresh air to the organisms inside
5. Wait a minimum of 30 days before consuming (do NOT eat it the first 4 weeks)
6. It is good indefinitely... even 1 year old high meat is good and good for you

Here's a little YouTube showing someone with their first exposure to high meat in the form of salmon:
2XZpCjuzvTA

leavesoftrees

20th September 2012, 21:08

Here's the recipe again for interested readers:
1. Use ONLY raw UNFROZEN fresh organic meat from chicken, turkey, fish, beef, or other animal
2. Cut it into marble sized pieces
3. Place in a jar 1/2 or less full so there is a lot of air above the meat and close the lid TIGHTLY
4. Every 3 days take the jar OUTSIDE and open the lid. Wave the jar around for a minute or so to provide fresh air to the organisms inside
5. Wait a minimum of 30 days before consuming (do NOT eat it the first 4 weeks)
6. It is good indefinitely... even 1 year old high meat is good and good for you

Hi Dawn

Unfortunately there is no longer such a thing as organic fish. Given the amount of plastics in the oceans, plastic has now entered the foodchain. Plastic that ends up in the sea tends to attract other chemicals and heavy metals such as mercury which attach to its surface. After a time plastic breaks down into smaller and smaller particles which are eaten by birds and fish and so enter the foodchain.

see Plastic oceans

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3583576.htm

I might give high meat a try. Interesting reaction you have to it, the nose says no, but the gut says yes. Happy for 6 weeks after consumption sounds good!

Ol' Roy

21st September 2012, 00:13

Hi Dawn,

Lol on the guy eating the high meat! I like my steak rare, as in cooked a little.( Take the moo out).
Just a couple of questions. You say the kefir starter multiplies every 3 or 4 weeks> How do you restart it? Strain it out?

I also have many allergies. Especially all condiments that have vinegar in them. Also store bought saurkraut. Would homemade be any different possibly on my digestive system? I do love my buttermilk! Kefir might be a nice addition as well as homemade yogurt.

Thanks for all you have done on this thread as well as all you do moderating.

Hervé

21st September 2012, 03:58

Dawn, thank you for this thread truly full of wonders!

I don't really know how you came to the realization quoted below but, in my view, it is the key to about everything wether it be one's approach to handling internal parasites or external ones such as the so-called archons or vampirizing entities: make friends with your friends instead of empowering the "enemy" by fighting it which is the basis of a Steve Richards' (http://www.holographickinetics.net/default.html) successes in ridding one's self of these other parasitical entities.

[...]

... But neither of these protocols recognize that working with natural and healthy symbiotic organisms that have been our friends for millions of years takes care of almost everything. Make friends with your internal garden, plant friendly symbiotic organisms in it, feed and water them daily. Then watch your health bloom as they grow healthy and strong and defend your body for you.

To add to one's personal pharmacopeia of one's gardening cabinet, the above quote reminded me of the protocol of seeds planting as delineated somewhere in the book "Anastasia," that is, holding the seeds in one's mouth before planting them so that whatever is planted will grow to give off whatever is needed to help whichever condition is imprinted to the seed via one's saliva... worth considering for nature's tailor-made recipe to a particular individual.

Dawn

21st September 2012, 04:43

Ol’Roy: You say the kefir starter multiplies every 3 or 4 weeks> How do you restart it? Strain it out?

I also have many allergies. Especially all condiments that have vinegar in them. Also store bought sauerkraut. Would homemade be any different possibly on my digestive system? I do love my buttermilk! Kefir might be a nice addition as well as homemade yogurt.

Hi Ol’Roy, nice to see you here. Great questions. For starters, your allergies are a classic sign that you do not have enough healthy bacteria in your digestive system. That is what started this whole thread... the more I learned, the more I realized that this is an epidemic in the modern world. The best way to get rid of allergies is to begin to incorporate the information in this thread into your life. So... welcome... it is likely you will find great answers here for your health!

Kefir: While kefir tastes almost exactly like buttermilk, the similarity ends there. A serving of Kefir contains trillions of bacteria which have the ability to colonize your digestive system. These organisms actually make food for your cells and strengthen your body’s immune system. Kefir is not available commercially in stores, perhaps because it will continue to ferment and force its way out almost any container you put it in, if given long enough. One small ‘starter’ of ‘kefir grains’ should last your entire lifetime if you take care of it. Doing this is easy... all you need is a jar and a wooden or plastic spoon (a colander helps but isn’t an absolute necessity). Kefir ferments at room temperature. Just feed it fresh milk, and strain the grains out of the finished product each day. The kefir grains go back into the fermenting jar, and the fermented kefir goes into your tummy. Simple!

Sauerkraut: Unfortunately commercial sauerkraut is pasteurized so that it has a shelf life. It is dead food. Sometimes you can find living ‘kraut’ in the refrigerated section of the grocery store, but even then, you need to read the labels! Sneaky manufactures are putting pasteurized (dead) sauerkraut in the refrigerated deli section of markets, hoping to fool people into thinking their product is the real thing. There is a manufacturer here in California which still makes living sauerkraut and pickles .... Bubbies. Otherwise, you need to make your own, which isn’t too hard and is pretty mistake proof.

Yogurt: This requires a special warm area to ferment whereas kefir does not. It does not colonize the digestive system as kefir does, and does not produce the health benefits of kefir. When I wish to have a kefir product that is more like thick yogurt, I add cream to the recipe. The kefir breaks it down into delicious essential fatty acids. I have also experimented with making kefir cheese by hanging it in a cheesecloth bag to let the whey drain out. The kefir cheese becomes thicker and dryer the longer it is drained. I know that there are lots of ads which state that yogurt is the answer to digestive health, but this really is not true... it is a profit gimmick.

Spend some time going back through this thread. It will change your life. There are links to articles and recipes, along with stories from people who are changing their health. Let me know if you want more info ... Dawn

Limor Wolf

21st September 2012, 04:52

Dawn

21st September 2012, 05:00

Amzer Zo: To add to one's personal pharmacopeia of one's gardening cabinet, the above quote reminded me of the protocol of seeds planting as delineated somewhere in the book "Anastasia," that is, holding the seeds in one's mouth before planting them so that whatever is planted will grow to give off whatever is needed to help whichever condition is imprinted to the seed via one's saliva... worth considering for nature's tailor-made recipe to a particular individual.

I love your post. Thank you for your words and thoughts. YES! This thread is all about affirming life! And since you brought up gardening, which is one of my favorite subjects, I'd like to add a little about this. Having a food and/or herb garden is about the most life affirming thing you can do for yourself. There is a special bond that forms between you and your growing food which is really a binding tie of love. I have a web site where my little garden is displayed: www.ourtinygarden.com . Because I walked away from my old life, I am starting over again. My new life began in a very tiny old trailer in a small trailer park. Yet, even here, I have created a garden which supplies about 1/2 of our food. Every available inch of my trailer space is filled with plants and herbs that are beautiful and tasty. I even have tiny livestock, red worms, which I sell and enrich my soil with.

Next week I am traveling to find a small home on acreage. There are many possibilities, and it is time to leave the little trailer which has held me in such love while I healed and faced the legal battles I needed to overcome. Today I had fun looking at miniature jersey milk cows. These tiny cows were first imported into the US for families who only needed a small amount of milk daily. They stand under 44 inches tall and are making a 'comeback' in the US where the 'back to the land' movement has caught on. Their milk is special too, because it contains more healthy fats and oils + certain cancer-fighting proteins. Now, wouldn't that make great kefir! Just for fun here's the site I've been looking on about these delightful family cows: http://www.minimilkcows.com/howtobuyaminicow.htm#the_difference

Eram

21st September 2012, 05:16

Hi Dawn, thank you for this beautiful and informative thread, my question: Do you have any advice for vegans that do not consume meat or dairy products and suffer from all sorts of allergies and abdominal pain (yes, yes, me:) on how to assist the digestive system and the gut flora with some good bacterias?

Hi Limor,

I know of one thing that you can do and that is using water kefir (http://pinterest.com/alexca/water-kefir/) instead of milk kefir.
If you do some research on it, you will find that it has the same benefits for the gut as regular (milk) kefir.

Dawn

21st September 2012, 07:51

Limor: Hi Dawn, thank you for this beautiful and informative thread, my question: Do you have any advice for vegans that do not consume meat or dairy products and suffer from all sorts of allergies and abdominal pain (yes, yes, me:) on how to assist the digestive system and the gut flora with some good bacterias?

Limor, my heart goes out to you. Before I answer you, I need to give you some of my history so you will understand the journey I've been on. My own journey gifted me with the wisdom I'm sharing.

Birth- age 28- I was a lacto-vegetarian (eggs and milk + vegetables).

Age 28-34: I married a 'meat and potatoes' man. I began to eat some occasional cooked meat protein. I really didn't like the taste of animal or fish protein. I also had a really challenging time digesting it, so I ate only to 'blend in' with those around me from time to time.

Age34-37: I believed that vegetarians were 'spiritually superior' I became a vegan in my mid 30s. By this time I was allergic to many foods, including milk, so my new diet included eggs... but no other animal protein.

Age 37-50: I went through a major kundalini awakening, followed by a short period as a breatharian. When I added eating back into my regime, all food was hard to digest. By my early 50s I had become allergic to almost all food, and my health was no longer robust.

Age 59-60: I walked out of my life and my marriage. With this added stress my health plummeted and I began to think I might not recover and continue to live on the planet.

2012: This thread was started about 3 months into finding a way to eat that worked for me and just after I had added fermented foods to my life.

Since then my health has turned a corner in a big way. I am filled with vitality and digestion is no longer a problem. (not to mention that going to the toilet is now comfortable and normal!) I have continued to educate myself and do my own research about how to recover and what the root cause of my ill health has been. Here is what I learned which directly applies to you.

1) Food allergies are caused by dis-bi-osis in the gut. (pathogenic and unfriendly micro-organisms living within your digestive tract). When this is present, your body is directly exposed to toxins that transfer directly into the blood from your digestive wastes. In addition, these pathogens combine genetically and physically with your own cells. So... your allergies are a pretty sure sign that you need the fermented foods to rebuild a healthy inner garden.

2) Most people who are vegans eventually become ill because they just are not getting the nutrition they need. There are many stories about this on the 'net. The interview with Aajonus Vonderplanitz's I put on this thread is very revealing in this regard. He is someone like me, and like you, who became ill while living as a vegan. I recommend you consider allowing your body to have some animal protein to help it heal. I strongly recommend you listen to the Aajonus interview.

3) And ... there is water kefir which will help your inner garden grow ... however somewhere you need to get the proper nutrition for your body to heal and that is very tough as a vegan once you become ill like this.

I know this viewpoint is not popular on Avalon. Perhaps I am wrong. However, that is how I got well. I dropped my mental beliefs and did what worked. I was willing to listen to new ideas. I still think that being a breatharian may be the road to true health, because there is no need to deal with food at all, however I'm not there energetically and I am doing what works now.

Limor Wolf

21st September 2012, 11:47

Dawn, this is the most helpful and informative answer I could hope for. I had peeped into this thread and I read some of your other posts where you shared some of your life occurences so far, the evolution of it feels quite remarkable. Thank you sincerely for sharing and for being a 'service to others' for all of us.

For the last 9 years, up until two month ago I worked long hours on night shift from 1900 till 0600, two three times a week. I loved the job, but my body has reacted negatively to it (understandably so) , I have gained 20 kilos in a relatively short time, I suffered from severe insomnia and my digestive problems started to occur. at the same time my 'wake up call' has consciously began and I started having some experience that were partly connected to Kundalini, and partly more to the 'supernatural' phenomena mostly happening at night . I remember being awake and in a state of over alertness for 14 days in a row where I can recall every minute of this time. I did not get any one second of sleep for the duration of two weeks. I believe that the many years of lack of sleep has effected my glands (especially the thyroid) and left my digestive system (as well as other systems) not operating properly. I also must add that being a 'sensetive' my whole life combined with environment factors expressed by excessive stress and anxiety has also left its mark on me. the stomach area is known to be the center of emotions and I did everything I could to keep my feelings inside, That is a whole another aspect of things, not so much the practical, maybe, but not less important.

Like yourself, I became lacto-vegetarian at the age of 10 and I am a vegan as from november last year. A couple of things happened to me since becoming a vegan (which I didn't plan, happened overnight), My eight years of being deprived of sleep has come to an end , I even started dreaming after many many years of not being able to even have the blessing of the unconscios state of sleep. I started to became more energetic and overall I feel more balanced. my digestive issues is something I can not get rid of, hence the question.

Thanks to you and to Wakytweaky I intend to search more about the water kefir (and of course read this thread from top to bottom!), I take what you say very seriously and with an open mind, I agree that veganism is not for everyone, However, for me, there is no way back, the benefits multiple greatly on the disadvantages, I know other very healthy vegans (from birth!) with not one shread of any health problem, and I know others that it is not suited for them. Video's of personal stories on youtube can be found from both sides of this same coin, one need to consider carfully what will do good to their body and conscience , saying that, I intened to watch Aajonus Vonderplanitz's video, and thank you for your strong recommendation. yes, I believe that vegetarianism over the years has made my sromach very low acidity, which is not allowing food to be properly digested. however,animals protein will probably not cross my mouth unless there are circumstances that are beyond my control, but I think it is most important to do what you yourself suggest and examine all aspect of this issue. One more thing, there is always a place for expressing an opinion, whether it is 'popular' or not, it will always have the potential to benefit someone, as the water kefir advice did to me and by the many above comments, also to many others.

P.s-

Aajonus Vonderplanitz seems to have a lot of video's, maybe you can provide me with the specific link?

Dawn

22nd September 2012, 00:38

Limor: Aajonus Vonderplanitz seems to have a lot of video's, maybe you can provide me with the specific link? Limor... what a refreshing post from you. So filled with personal wisdom. Thank you for showing up! The video I found helpful with Aajonus Vonderplanitz is the one I posted in this thread. Here's the link to that post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=550968&viewfull=1#post550968

The Truth Is In There

22nd September 2012, 11:53

dawn, have you tried adding raw butter to the raw milk when you make kefir? i wonder if it works to get a very high fat kefir or if the butter stays more or less as it is. i aim for about 70% calories from fat in my diet and no more than 5-10% carbs (mostly from green or cruciferous veggies and raw milk) so including a really high fat kefir seems to be a good idea, especially during the period from morning till early evening when only little solid food is consumed. if it works, that is.

other than that my current diet consists of mostly fermented foods, too, but i also eat "regular" hot meals a few evenings per week with cooked meat or fish and steamed kale, broccoli or cauliflower + some raw sauerkraut and feta cheese. i've become a bit careful with fermented fish after one experiment went somewhat wrong, haha. apparently the fish wasn't ready yet and basically kept fermenting in my guts which led to 5 days of gut pain and diarrhea. the price you pay if you are your own guinea pig...

i'm going to try making high meat next. thanks for the tip, sounds awesome! have you ever tried it with meat that was frozen at some point, perhaps for just a short while? i believe the bacteria survive "short periods" at freezing temperatures, as in hours, days or a perhaps week. i have to buy my grass-fed beef and wild game online so it always comes frozen.

come to think of it, do you think it's possible to "revive" frozen meat in sauerkraut juice or whey, and then ferment it dry in a jar as you described? living bacteria would be there again, the question is, the right ones for this kind of aerobic fermentation?

Swanette

23rd September 2012, 03:34

Thank you Dawn,
Thank you so much for sharing this and providing us with the most ,IMO, the most important info we humans need to live and be healthy both mentally and physically on this planet. Your info about the GAPs diet totally changed my way of thinking about our diet. I share it with everyone. I have even made some delicous saurkraut that my family loves. I'm in the process of making several different recipe batches using some veggies from my garden in my homemade glass fermenting jars (3 litre size olive jars) that work great! I put a small hole in the lid and plug in the airlock on top. Love it! I'm going to try making kefir now..;) and maybe some high meat, too.
hugs

Swannie

Dawn

23rd September 2012, 04:17

The Truth Is In There: i'm going to try making high meat next. thanks for the tip, sounds awesome! have you ever tried it with meat that was frozen at some point, perhaps for just a short while? i believe the bacteria survive "short periods" at freezing temperatures, as in hours, days or a perhaps week. i have to buy my grass-fed beef and wild game online so it always comes frozen.

come to think of it, do you think it's possible to "revive" frozen meat in sauerkraut juice or whey, and then ferment it dry in a jar as you described? living bacteria would be there again, the question is, the right ones for this kind of aerobic fermentation?

I really don't know how to advise you on this. My teacher was Aajonus Vonderplanitz and he INSISTS that the meat NOT be previously frozen. You can make high meat with other types of animal flesh, such as poultry and fish. Is there any way you can get some of this type of meat to begin with? I really don't know what would happen if you ferment previously frozen meat. I would not feel comfortable myself with stepping out of the suggestions Aajonus made. If you try it and survive, please let us all know.

As far as putting something in living sauerkraut or whey... these types of vegetable products are filled with lactobacillus acidophillus which coats all plants naturally and protects them from disease and insect damage while they are growing. I'm pretty sure this is not the bacteria that ferments meat. The reason I say this is that the odor of fermented meat is very different from lactobacillus cultures. Soaking meat in these types of cultures would be unlikely to add anything to the fermenting culture of the meat, because lactobacillus thrives on sugars (in milk or vegetables for example). I doubt lactobacillus would find an ideal environment to thrive on in meat. But if you try it- and you like the results please let us all know.

Swanette: .... the GAPs diet totally changed my way of thinking about our diet. I share it with everyone. I have even made some delicous saurkraut that my family loves. I'm in the process of making several different recipe batches using some veggies from my garden in my homemade glass fermenting jars (3 litre size olive jars) that work great! I put a small hole in the lid and plug in the airlock on top. Love it! I'm going to try making kefir now.. and maybe some high meat, too.

Swanette, your report is so heartwarming. I am the same way. After realizing how pandemic the issue of gut dis-bio-sis is within our culture I have realized that almost everyone I meet is sick because of this. This situation is almost totally unknown within our culture. I speak to everyone who might be open to hearing about this. It is very sad to live in a population of sick and depressed people who would almost totally turn their lives around if they just ate a few fermented foods and eliminated wheat from their diets.

I'm glad your life has changed and you are having fun with all of this as I am. Warm hugs back at you!

The Truth Is In There

23rd September 2012, 10:03

I really don't know how to advise you on this. My teacher was Aajonus Vonderplanitz and he INSISTS that the meat NOT be previously frozen. You can make high meat with other types of animal flesh, such as poultry and fish. Is there any way you can get some of this type of meat to begin with? I really don't know what would happen if you ferment previously frozen meat. I would not feel comfortable myself with stepping out of the suggestions Aajonus made. If you try it and survive, please let us all know.

i can probably get at least the grass-fed beef unfrozen but probably not the wild game since hunters are only allowed to shoot deer or the like during hunting season. i don't eat factory farmed animals so i'm somewhat limited in my choices and can't buy meat at the grocery store. i'm not sure if the inuit who live in cold regions always take care that their meat doesn't freeze before it's left to rot. actually, i don't think so. i guess i'll have to try and then let you know if it worked (if i still can, haha). however, after watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxvszzgYRjU&feature=related

i have my doubts if i'll be able to consume rotten meat. it's probably nothing i'll enjoy eating. on the other hand, staying healthy until old age and saving a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted by cooking or other food preparation makes it at least worth a try. not to mention having a nonperishable food source in case the power grid goes down and you can no longer use the freezer. what is it called in english if you don't want to say it tastes disgusting, an "aquired" taste? ;)

As far as putting something in living sauerkraut or whey... these types of vegetable products are filled with lactobacillus acidophillus which coats all plants naturally and protects them from disease and insect damage while they are growing. I'm pretty sure this is not the bacteria that ferments meat. The reason I say this is that the odor of fermented meat is very different from lactobacillus cultures. Soaking meat in these types of cultures would be unlikely to add anything to the fermenting culture of the meat, because lactobacillus thrives on sugars (in milk or vegetables for example). I doubt lactobacillus would find an ideal environment to thrive on in meat. But if you try it- and you like the results please let us all know.

yes, you're right, it's definitely not the bacteria that ferment meat. i've been keeping the raw meat i eat in raw milk because it prevents the meat from spoiling (or becoming "high") but i agree, most of the cultures in raw milk or whey (there are several afaik, at least early on) go after the sugar. nevertheless i believe that if no sugar/starch is available anymore these bacteria will simply die and the ones that digest protein will thrive.

in a book on enzymes i've read recently there was a chapter about a doctor who created bacteria through natural selection that were 85% protein. he started with a protein solution and added certain bacteria strains. of course most bacteria died but a few of them could use the protein for food. he took those, started the next culture with them and so on. eventually he got to the point where the bacteria depended on protein and produced enzymes that created their own complete protein for food from cellulose and other plant material even if no protein was available in the first place. so the secret to everything is enzymes and the bacteria who produce them. he got a patent on it some time in the mid-20th century because he intended it to be used for industrially manufacturing a complete protein (w/ all essential amino acids) for human consumtion to reduce hunger in the world. of course the us-government never intended to make use of his findings since it went against their eugenics and depopulation agenda.

anyway, what i wanted to say is that those bacteria will prevail who can digest the food that is available, be it sugar or protein, the question is whether or not the byproducts they produce are healthy for us. i'm going to find that out for frozen meat. if it doesn't kill me it will hopefully make me stronger :p

DoubleHelix

23rd September 2012, 16:36

Hey Dawn, This is a fantastic thread, one of the best on the board for sure! Many thanks.

I'm about 40% through the thread (no linear order), and a few questions have come to mind. Once a person attains a healthy gut flora and gut lining, does this make them insusceptible to illnesses such as the common cold? Do people reach a state where sickness becomes a thing of the past and any health threats are managed accordingly by their army of 'good guys' ?

Really looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of the GAPS book.

-Jack.

Dawn

23rd September 2012, 20:17

Double Helix: Once a person attains a healthy gut flora and gut lining, does this make them insusceptible to illnesses such as the common cold? Do people reach a state where sickness becomes a thing of the past and any health threats are managed accordingly by their army of 'good guys' ?

Really looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of the GAPS book.

Double Helix, I don't know that this is the answer to everything, after all... in the 'olden days' people still did get sick. The difference was that they were ill seldom, chronic illness and depression were not a factor, and people did not often need doctors. In the 'olden days' doctors used natural methods of curing illness. Here are some fun facts about 'olden day' medical treatments.
......Did you know that Kefir was considered a 'miracle cure' at one time in Europe?
......I have a friend who was diagnosed with skin cancer as a 10 year old boy.
The doctor's recommended treatment: be outside every day to allow the sun to cure his skin! (It worked in 1 season)
......Milk Hospitals used raw milk to cure almost every illness with great success

Right now in the USA over 80% of the adult population is on antidepressant pills! That is truly shocking. It is likely that this entire epidemic is due to gut dis-bio-sis. So sad! But what a profit maker for the drug companies.

Colds and flues are considered by many healers to be a sign of excellent health, as the body uses these to cleanse itself. I was told by one trained Chinese Medical Doctor (a licensed LAC) that only healthy people got colds. In this philosophy, if a person experienced too many years without a cold this indicated that they no longer had the strength and vitality for deep cleansing. I hope that isn't true, because I haven't had a cold for some years now.

Well, the question I'm sure you're wondering about is how this will effect you? I guess the answer depends on your current state of health. If your mom never took antibiotics and took care of her inner garden before she gave birth to you ... and if you've been taking care of yours your entire life by eating fermented foods and organic produce, then you won't have much effect. However, if this does not describe your life then you will be truly amazed at how well you feel once you've been doing this for a few months. You will feel strong physically, and you will feel cheerful and happy all the time... NO KIDDING!

meat suit

23rd September 2012, 20:19

oh dear, just watched the video.... I dont think I will be able to try 'high meat'......:tape2:

Dawn

23rd September 2012, 20:31

meatsuit: oh dear, just watched the video.... I dont think I will be able to try 'high meat'......
That's not a problem. This thread started out discussing fermented kefir, sauerkraut, and vegetables. Those are probably enough for good health if you aren't really ill. The discussion about the fermented meat began because I added it to my diet. I was extremely ill and was not certain I would recover so I added 'high meat' because of its reputation for healing severe illness. In my case I was in severe chronic pain, my skull bones no longer showed on X-rays, I had IBS symptoms, my eyes were barely able to see anything, and I had acquired several chronic onco-virus's and bacteria which are linked to cancer. By the way, the high meat worked. I no longer have any of those conditions.

ThePythonicCow

23rd September 2012, 20:34

Right now in the USA over 80% of the adult population is on antidepressant pills!
I doubt that number :).

I'd guess (from here (http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html) and here (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-08-03-antidepressants_N.htm)) that it's somewhere between 10% and 20%, not 80%.

Dawn

23rd September 2012, 23:47

Quote Posted by Dawn (here)
Right now in the USA over 80% of the adult population is on antidepressant pills!
I doubt that number .

I'd guess (from here and here) that it's somewhere between 10% and 20%, not 80%.

You are correct Paul. I'm not sure why I thought I'd read a higher figure. Still, if Dr Campbell McBride is correct nearly all of these 10-12% of the population could be 'cured' if they had a healthy digestive system with a flourishing inner garden of beneficial microbes. The numbers of people this could help is truly staggering.

Mu2143

24th September 2012, 09:16

I would like to give a huge thanks to Dawn for this thread, and to everyone else who has contributed ;)

I went vegetarian a few weeks ago and I am now crippled with the most horrendous bloating, I never eat anything with sugar or that is sweet, nor do I eat much processed food.

I developed IBS years ago, something I now put down to being in a massive state of high stress (PTSD to be exact ) following a series of bizarre psychic experiences, a vaccination against Flu & being abducted on a regular basis .

I have read & downloaded PDFs & will watch the videos & read more later, there are some things I've never even heard of before, like kefir, I have a lot of allergies too so its a lot to take in & adjust to.

Its my shopping day tomorrow, so that will be the start, back to dead animals & au revoir veggie burgers !!!

You can detox to quickly

You will get sick on Raw Foods, episode #669
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nylf-4tXOnY&list=A5A1658A77EC903B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nylf-4tXOnY&list=A5A1658A77EC903B
Liver detox
http://www.drclark.net/images/stories/file/PDF/Liver_Cleanse_thesis.pdf

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?6528-Liver-detox--from-av1-

The Truth Is In There

24th September 2012, 10:39

here's an interesting article that compares cows fed raw milk and cows fed pasteurized milk. keep in mind that pretty much the same happens in your body.

http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/the-tale-of-two-calves-one-calf-got-raw-milk-the-other-pasteurized/

as an appetizer, since this thread deals with guts...

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo79/john_dxx/stomachs.jpg

i think you can guess which of the stomachs comes from the raw milk fed cow. there are more telltale photos of their livers and, for the lovers of genitalia, their testes. enjoy ;)

Flash

24th September 2012, 11:15

It seems it may be 2 different races of cows. I would like to know if it is before judging.

ThePythonicCow

24th September 2012, 13:20

It seems it may be 2 different races of cows. I would like to know if it is before judging.

Reading the comments below the article, it seems from Michael Schmidt's reply that the two calves are the same breed.

conk

24th September 2012, 19:00

Dawn

24th September 2012, 19:59

MU2143: You can detox to quickly

Detoxing Slowly is Best:
I agree... you can detox so quickly that you REALLY get SICK! This is why people starting to incorporate fermented foods full of probiotics are cautioned to start SMALL. Kefir is suggested as a starting food and for people who've been eating the standard modern diet the suggested dose begins with 1 Tablespoon (less if there is a strong reaction). Slowly the amount of kefir can be increased until a person can drink as much as they like with no reactions. Sauerkraut is suggested only after a person has been on kefir for a while and is no longer having reactions... again, starting small is recommended. I have friends and neighbors who ignored this advice and spent days with stomach cramps and diarrhea.

Hydro-colon therapy can damage micro-flora:
However, I disagree with Mat Monarch in the Video about hydro-colon therapy. I've had that therapy myself because so many authors and health experts recommend it. I did NOT have good results, and ended up with severe gut dis-bio-sis from a series of 8 treatments which caused great difficulty in the ability to digest food, bloating, and IBS. At that time I did not know about kefir. I tried to resolve the situation with commercial probiotics. My attempts to re-balance my micro-flora were very expensive, and took about a year to normalize. Dr Campbell-McBride speaks against this treatment because it can further damage colon microflora populations. IMO people should be very careful doing hydro-colon therapy.

The Truth Is In There: here's an interesting article that compares cows fed raw milk and cows fed pasteurized milk. keep in mind that pretty much the same happens in your body.

What a find that article is! Paul, thanks for pointing out that there are direct links to more detailed info about the study at the bottom of the link (here for example: http://thebovine.wordpress.com/raw-vs-pasteurized/) This is so graphic. here is evidence of what is inside most humans on the modern diet - Shocking! The wonderful thing is that we can actually make a choice not to do this to ourselves.

For some reason the main population is making poor choices. I guess this is what Avalon is about.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6VD4l0xErsZqZ0Cz_Et5gEiKbgrEtHlMXeUQZsYFnldPNcLDtJg

Mu2143

24th September 2012, 21:44

What I always do is to look for the most simple and normal thing you can do and that is to change your food life style.(Veggies fruits,herbs) , so I will never do does thing like a hydro-colon therapy and if you have a liver problem this is a No No

Find out what helps your detox process and one of the things is a liver detox.

From experience and knowing that this takes time!!!

Swan

25th September 2012, 07:28

I do not wash out the culture jar, which builds up a layer of healthy kefir organisms on the glass. I put the grains back in the coated jar and add slightly warmed milk to within 1inch of the top. Lots of living kefir organisms assure me that I will get maximum fermentation. The 1 inch headroom allows the kefir to expand as it fills with bubbles.

.

I was a bit worried about my kefir. Although the milk turned sour and tangy, I couldn´t see any whey, even after 48 hrs.

So, I tried the above, and low and behold - whey!

But it still takes 36 hrs.... have ordered more kefir grains. Maybe I somehow damaged the first lot?

The Truth Is In There

25th September 2012, 12:53

re colon-hydro therapy, imo it's a useful treatment for people who are extremely constipated or have diverticulosis/diverticulitis, in order to remove all the toxic crap from the colon that's been stored in these pouches for months or years and keeps releasing poisons into the body.

however, i agree with dawn that it can create gut dysbiosis and further problems that follow this condition (which most people don't even associate with unhealthy gut flora like psychological issues and whatnot) if it's not followed by re-colonization with healthy microbes. so it's extremely important that easily digestible probiotics (such as kefir or raw milk) and perhaps pills with certain probiotic strains are consumed immediately after each c-h treatment. ideally the c-h therapy should be followed by a micro enema with probiotics that is kept inside.

bifido bacteria for example make up approx. 80% of the gut flora, the other 20% are certain lactobacilli and other less known strains. it's important to get many of them because they colonize different parts of the gut according to their preferences (food, acid-level, etc.). also, some of them are merely passing through so the probiotics need to be consumed regularly, not just once or twice.

if that is done, c-h therapy is extremely useful for detoxification because most of the unhealthy gut flora has been removed and the gut can begin to heal. it's like a garbage dump that needs to be cleaned up before a garden can be grown on the site. it may work without the cleaning but it will take much much longer.

conk

25th September 2012, 15:13

Not sure if this has been stated earlier in this great thread, but allow me to reiterate if so. Bacteria do not reside only in the gut. There are micro-flora in our mouth, our esophagus, almost everywhere. The infant child's earliest exposure to beneficial bacteria is when it passes through the birth canal.

There are perhaps 100s of different strains of bacteria. Researchers really do not know how many. Our modern habits makes it very difficult for all the strains to survive and thrive. We could be missing essential flora because our granny or great granny had hers all killed off and could not pass them along. GMOs are killing or mutating bacteria, even changing their DNA.

I believe that when Rockefeller supported Pasteur over Beauchamp and birthed the pharmaceutical monster, that they knew they were starting a war on good bacteria.

CdnSirian

25th September 2012, 18:29

I've been reading parts of this thread - great stuff! And found this informative site on making water kefir...

http://www.yemoos.com/faqwagrains101.html

CdnSirian

25th September 2012, 23:47

I've managed to read through most of this thread through page 9 - will get to the rest later. Dawn and everyone thank you so much for all the information!:grouphug:

The Truth Is In There

26th September 2012, 11:46

I've been reading parts of this thread - great stuff! And found this informative site on making water kefir...

http://www.yemoos.com/faqwagrains101.html

interesting site, thanks! i found this particularly noteworthy:

Water is one of the crucial ingredients for water kefir. What water you use will make a difference. Since most of us don't have the equipment to test what is in our water, let alone on a day-to-day basis, this usually requires some experimenting. Water kefir generally prefers a nutritious highly mineralized water (also called hard water, or mineral water / spring water if its from a bottle). Soft water, filtered water, carbon-activated, ionized or otherwise altered water does not seem to encourage the same amount of growth or vitality in our observations. Reverse osmosis water has in most of our observations led to eventual kefir grain death even. It just doesn't contain enough of the various and vital minerals found in normal tap, spring or mineral water.

i remember the discussion about drinking distilled water. here's what distilled water or reverse osmosis water does to your gut flora - it kills it. beneficial bacteria need minerals, just like us.

CdnSirian

26th September 2012, 12:23

I use a 2 filter system - the second one puts minerals back into the water. I'll have to see if this works.

btw - here's a recipe for ingesting minerals topically. It was recommended to me recently by a nutritionist, as I was taking a lot of supplements but not getting a handle on a condition.

1 litre of good water; 1 tblsp of sea salt; 2 gms vit C with bioflavonoids; few drops of Lugol's (to keep it clean). Shake it up. It doesn't quite dissolve so you need to shake it every time you use it. You use it by bathing the torso, throat face and scalp, a few times a day, or once a day when you're feeling well. I use my hands. I pour it into a plate, and I also put more Lugol's in every day and apply lots over my neck. Not necessary for everyone, though iodine leaves the body if not needed.

My energy has increased five fold in the past month. When I am pressed for time, I put some into a tub for a shallow foot bath, just a little so I absorb it all. Then I can study or read and soak 'em up.

The nutritionist said this will also clean up the Pineal and inspire creativity. This is true - I didn't notice right away but I built a small marketing website, and wrote/edited a dozen articles in the past week with little effort. I had really been kicking my butt to get this done before, then presto it was done and I enjoyed it.

I also have quit swallowing all the capsules of supplements. I take a pleasant tasting green drink, so I empty all my caps into it, I add an ounce of Noni juice and water, sometimes some coconut oil, and blend for a few seconds. It tastes fine and when I look at the pile of caps I wonder how I digested them before. If I did...

The rest of the fall will be learning how to make kefir water, ginger bugs etc. Will also try the turmeric bug too. Great day all!

leavesoftrees

26th September 2012, 21:36

Swan: My son doesn´t tolerate milk protein very well, but I decided to let him try kefir anyway.
He loves it! ....Dawn, how do you make your kefir? I leave mine for 24 hrs with the grains, and then another 24 hrs with a lid a room temperature.

Last week the kefir developed a mouldy taste which has never happened before. So I rinsed the kefir in water. It tastes OK now. does anyone else do this?

Czarek

27th September 2012, 03:02

If I don't like the taste of my kefir batch, I dump it. I always check it by simply smelling it. You'll remember what it should smell like and with time, you'll be able to tell the degree of fermentation that took place in each batch.

meat suit

27th September 2012, 08:24

I rinse my kfir grains daily between baches... never had a problem...

Swan

27th September 2012, 09:26

Will also try the turmeric bug too. Great day all!

Recipe please :)

CdnSirian

27th September 2012, 23:57

http://www.holistickid.com/practically-perfect-cultured-ketchup/ cultured ketchup

http://www.holistickid.com/how-to-make-a-ginger-bug/ you can add turermic or replace ginger with turmeric - in the same way. Don't know how it tastes - haven't tried yet. Or looked for it locally, organic.

Dawn

30th September 2012, 20:58

KEFIR CONTAINS BETA GLUCANS
I received an advertisement for an immune enhancing supplement made from beta glucans extracted from brewers yeast cells. It was expensive, and there was a lot of research proving how important this was to the immune system. So.... I decided to see how Kefir compares to this, since it is known to support the immune system.

It is no surprise that kefir contains beta glucans, just like medicinal mushrooms & expensive supplements do. The advantage with kefir is that the beta glucans are fresh, and inexpensive. Here are some great links to read more for yourself:
http://www.abundantlifeessentials.com/news/baccrohns.htm

Here's a quote from that site:

Store Bought Kefir vs Real Kefir: The kefir sold in stores is not real kefir, made from kefir grains. It is just yogurt starter with more probiotic strains. It cannot be duplicated more than 7 times whereas real kefir grains will work for life. Real kefir must be stored in glass bottles as plastic would burst. Real kefir when sealed will release air like soda when opened.
Pro's: Real Kefir made from grains is about the best prebiotic and probiotic you can get. Real Kefir also contains beneficial yeasts, and beta glucans like those found in mushrooms. The financial value is unbeatable since it lasts for life and can be shared. Real Kefir can also make champagne, cheese, bread, other diary, you are only limited by your imagination. And kefir grains can hibernate if you need to take a brake for a vacation. You can also flavor and sweeten it any way you want. Kefir will start colonizing within 3 days. Real kefir grains are the best probiotics. Store bought kefir is just yogurt and will not do anymore for you but costs 200% more.

KEFIR IS ANTI-INFLAMMATORY

Now a French team has highlighted the bug, Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, which they show secretes biochemicals that reduce inflammation.
The study appears in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The treatment recommended by this article for patients with IBS (Inflammatory bowel syndrome) is kefir and fish oil.

http://www.abundantlifeessentials.com/news/baccro2.jpg

And finally, I thought I'd offer a link to a delicious recipe for Kefir Smoothie, for those who just don't like the taste of it. It was produced by the company I buy my raw milk from.
qu0Fi81RQGc

Dawn

30th September 2012, 21:18

meat suit: I rinse my kfir grains daily between baches... never had a problem...

I know another member here on Avalon who also rinses his grains daily. Personally this seems odd to me as we are trying to GROW bacteria here... not rinse them away. I don't rinse my grains, and in fact my culture jars build up a layer of fermented kefir on their insides. I leave this layer in place, to add to the living cultures which produce kefir for me. My kefir never tastes 'off' and it ferments rapidly this way.

I do use raw milk, which I'm able to purchase in California still. This might be one of the keys to how well my kefir does.

In the beginning, I did not really like kefir that had begun to separate into 'curds and whey'. I used to hang the over-ripe kefir in a cheese cloth to drain. A soft 'kefir cream cheese' ends up in the cheese cloth bag, and I saved the yellowish clear whey in a bowl. (The whey makes some of the BEST salad dressing base you've ever tasted- instead of vinegar). However, over the months I've gotten used to the wonderful tangy taste of really ripe kefir, and I strain it to break up the curds if I want a smoother texture.

Remember.. the whole idea with kefir is to GROW bacteria, yeast, molds and other probiotic organisms. Also remember that healthy kefir is such a strong culture that it usually kills off other organisms which try to invade it.

STILL: The nose knows, and if I ever smell mold in my kefir (like you did leavesoftrees) I will do something different.

My recipe for probiotic kefir whey salad dressing:
1 cup kefir whey
1/2 cup avocado or olive oil
1/2 tsp fish oil (optional)
1 cup fresh herbs from the garden
(put in what you're growing such as oregano, tyme, rosemary, basil, summer savory, etc, )
a fresh hot pepper (or a little cayenne)
1/2 onion
sea salt to taste
(note: for creamy dressing include some kefir curds or whole kefir)

meat suit

1st October 2012, 11:56

you are right of course, Dawn,

I just followed the instructions that came with my starter grains... I suppose it must be a good sign that the grains survived their daily tabwater shower....

thanks for this thread!

wegge

1st October 2012, 19:32

Hi all!
I´m now on my 7th day of a low carb/high fat diet. I feel rather good. I started to make my own kefir but not with the real grains but with the starter (not yoghurt!?) you can use up to 6 times. I think I should get some real Kefir grains to see the difference. Nonetheless I enjoy drinking/eating my own brew. I started slowly with a few spoons and I´m still not drinking more than half a cup on my 4th day.
Since I started the diet I feel less bloated and not that uncomfortably even when I don´t have bowel movements, as I used to feel before. Sometimes I think I felt what could be described as die off symptoms. Also had some new feelings/sensations/movements in the stomach are.

Today I tried for the first time raw meat (fillet of beef) which I spiced with curcuma and black pepper and added coconut oil, and I really liked the taste of it. Raw eggs mixed with some kind of fat(coconut oil) are also delicious.
I began to brew my own mead and I´m excited how it will work out and what the taste and effects will be like.

@dawn and the others: have you heard about aajonus vonderplanitz suggestion to get some extra weight (fat) that will help you detoxifying without symptoms, or even tried it?

kind regards

Dawn

1st October 2012, 19:52

Wegge: I started to make my own kefir but not with the real grains but with the starter (not yoghurt!?) you can use up to 6 times. I think I should get some real Kefir grains to see the difference. Nonetheless I enjoy drinking/eating my own brew.
Great Start.... but you NEED .... REAL... kefir. Any starter which only lasts up to 6 times is not real kefir and does not have the same health benefits. Real kefir has over 40 organisms which are symbiotic with eachother. It lives eternally, as long as it is fed milk regularly. Kefir makes it through the mail pretty well for up to about 7-10 days. (I can't say whether it lasts longer because I haven't tried it). Therefore it is easy to order it online and have it mailed to you. Try to find someone in your own country so the Kefir won't have to travel for too long. I have sent some of my kefir grains to other countries, but always in the suitcases of friends who took less than 48 hours to arrive at their new destinations where they could feed it with milk. My starters cost $15.00 ... and I ordered them from 3 places to make sure I got a strong starter. They were all strong... even the one mailed to me from Greece.

Wegge: @dawn and the others: have you heard about aajonus vonderplanitz suggestion to get some extra weight (fat) that will help you detoxifying without symptoms, or even tried it?

I have heard just a whisper about this and I think I need to read up on it. I think his understanding is that you need to eat a high fat diet and gain weight... then you need to go back to a lower fat diet and loose weight and do this over several times. The idea is for the body to use up the old rancid toxic fat and to replace its fat stores with fresh new clean fat. If you've read exactly how he suggests we do this I'd like to know.... can you post a little more about it?

The Truth Is In There

2nd October 2012, 12:24

Wegge: @dawn and the others: have you heard about aajonus vonderplanitz suggestion to get some extra weight (fat) that will help you detoxifying without symptoms, or even tried it?

I have heard just a whisper about this and I think I need to read up on it. I think his understanding is that you need to eat a high fat diet and gain weight... then you need to go back to a lower fat diet and loose weight and do this over several times. The idea is for the body to use up the old rancid toxic fat and to replace its fat stores with fresh new clean fat. If you've read exactly how he suggests we do this I'd like to know.... can you post a little more about it?

i can't see how adding extra fat to the body (not the diet) can help with detoxification because most toxins are stored in body fat. that would give the body more room to store toxins instead of removing them. to detoxify it's important to get rid of excess body fat, and that is best done through a low carb/high fat diet.

in order to use body fat for energy insulin must be low, so it's impossible to burn fat on an average or high carb diet, even with so-called "negative energy balance" because that merely reduces the metabolism and increases hunger to the point where it can't be ignored anymore. so in order to detoxify effectively one needs to adopt a low carb/high fat diet (no more than 50-60g carbs per day, approx. 1g protein per kg lean body weight, the rest fat).

with this kind of diet, and only with a high fat diet, can you create a negative energy balance without getting hungry because insulin will be low and so all energy from food is burned, not stored as fat, and if not enough energy comes from food the body will take it from the fat cells. this way excess body fat is burned and toxins stored in these cells are released and subsequently excreted (provided the liver isn't clogged).

btw, it's nearly impossible to gain excess weight (read: fat) on a high fat diet without carbs because with low insulin levels the fat stores simply can't be increased. energy from food will always be burned and if food intake is increased that will simply increase metabolic rate. the body will generate more heat and you'll literally be forced by your body to move (sports, whatever) in order to burn the excess energy.

insulin is the fat storage hormone, without it, no fat gain can be accomplished. weight gain, yes, because of increased growth hormone, testosterone and thus muscle and bone growth, but no accumulation of excess body fat. and without excess body fat there's no room to store toxins so they'll be removed on a regular basis (which is further supported by a diet high in raw and fermented foods because of the enzymes)

wegge

2nd October 2012, 14:08

Dawn

2nd October 2012, 18:56

Thank you The Truth Is In There for such a well stated post. And thanks Wegge for your input as well. There it is, grains and sugars must be eliminated from the diet in order to have good health.

Today I had a call from a friend who just started on kefir from a culture I mailed to her. Her question was what else could she take to improve gut flora since she seemed to be allergic to milk. Her evidence was that she had lots of gas and some constipation when taking her first doses of kefir.

This call reminded me that some people might be discouraged by a reaction like this. Yet this reaction is letting her know that she has dis-biosis (or pathogenic organisms) in her gut. It is a NORMAL reaction as the micro-organisms in the kefir begin to implant themselves and flourish within our digestive tract. What we need to do if this reaction happens is reduce the amount of kefir we are ingesting to just a teaspoon or a tablespoon a day until we can tolerate a bit more. It takes TWO YEARS to fully implant the organisms in our body and have a completely healthy gut according to Dr. McBride.

In earlier posts I pointed out that pathogenic organisms actually swap DNA with our body cells, as well as producing toxins and damaging the walls of the colon so that those pathogens go directly into the blood stream. The 2 year timeline allows the symbiotic friendly organisms to clean all of this up for us. And... yes... there might be gas and a few other symptoms while this is occurring.

I've been eating kefir for around 9 months now, and my digestion is pretty darn healthy. I feel good most of the time too. But I still plan to continue with daily doses for a minimum of 2 total years.

If you don't have your kefir yet here's a link on EBay where many vendors are offering it: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=kefir+grains&_sacat=0&_odkw=water+keipher&_osacat=0&_from=R40

onawah

3rd October 2012, 02:47

This quote is from the merged thread: Is This Why Europeans Don't Get Sick Like Americans Do? / Genetic Roulette The Documented...etc

Posted by norman (here)
for many years wheat growers have been finishing off wheat crops, just 2 weeks prior to the combine harvesters going in, with 'Roundup', the well known weed killer. It actually kills the wheat, which has the effect of making all the wheat arrive at the same "ripe ?" state at exactly the same time
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49816-Genetic-Roulette-The-Documented-Health-Risks-of-Genetically-Engineered-Foods

I'll betcha this has something to do with the epidemic of Celiac Disease.

Mu2143

3rd October 2012, 03:53

I just got the idea to use kefir grains with soil for plant growth like your tomatoes or any other fruits and veggies?? maybe for some one to test this out.

Mu2143

3rd October 2012, 04:18

Found this site about kefir
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Mu2143

3rd October 2012, 06:20

this study, the effect of initial kefir grain concentration and various minerals (MgO, MgSO4.7H2O, ZnSO4.7H2O, CaSO4.1/2H2O and Fe2O3) on the propagation of kefir grains and the pH evolution of kefir were investigated. The activated kefir grains were inoculated into very low fat (.1%) cows’ milk under constant temperature (25°C) and impeller speed (1 rpm) for a propagation time of 24 h. Several mathematical models proposed to predict the pH value and kefir grain biomass increase vs propagation time were evaluated by the experimental results for all mineral additions; the Richards equation was found to be the most appropriate one. After evaluation of the experimental data, the most influential mineral addition providing 46.3% increase in kefir grain biomass was found to be MgO with a concentration of .3 g Mg2+/L. At this optimal condition, a model was derived for the kefir grain biomass concentration representing pH dependence.

http://sciencealerts.com/stories/1548567/A_modelling_study_on_kefir_grain_biomass_growth_Influence_of_various_minerals.html

The Truth Is In There

3rd October 2012, 10:26

sorry for the confusion!

He says that "low body fat levels only allow for basal metabolism and no deep cleansing." You need the extra fat to store the toxins in it (15-30pounds for men and 12-15 pounds for women, above "normal weight"?). So you shouldn´t have detoxification symptoms. He recommends not only a high fat diet but also a lot of vegetable juices, basically you should eat every 60min. You should be able to get the excess weight in 2 months, some need only 10 days. It´s important to hold that extra weight for another 2 months! After that you should lose the excess weight with a program he recommends. Time for weight loss is also individual.

I read about this in his book The Recipe for Living Without Disease

well, the following is just my take on the matter, i can't provide actual proof so take it with a grain of salt.

where toxins are stored in the body depends on the toxins and each person's genetic make up, so it's not possible to generalize where toxins are stored.

also, once the toxins are stored, they stay there unless something happens which causes them to be removed from their current storage. merely adding body fat will do nothing to remove toxins from one kind of tissue and store them in fat. only fat soluble toxins that are in the bloodstream can be stored in fat cells (if they can't be excreted right away). while they're in the blood they will most likely create detox symptoms, even with a lot of body fat. the difference is that if the body has the means to store them away in fat cells it will probably excrete less and store more which means you'll have detox symptoms again once you lose the fat.

veggie juices are something that does help with detoxification, to a certain degree, mainly due to the high enzyme content. however, it may not help very much with toxins that are stored in bones, or halides like fluoride or bromide which can form toxic compounds and be stored nearly everywhere because they're so reactive, but are mainly stored in glands because they have the most receptors. to detox these requires high dose iodine ingestion, which incidentally also helps to detox mercury and other heavy metals. essentially, you need molecules that can bind to the stored toxins in order to remove them from the storage tissue so they can be excreted.

lastly, a meal every 60 minutes will force the body to digest continually and won't give it time to detox. detoxification usually happens during fasts when digestion rests. that's why intermittent fasting with just one large meal in the late afternoon or evening is very beneficial. during the morning and noon hours nothing or just a little easily digestible food high in enzymes is consumed (such as kefir, veggie juice, or i'm guessing high meat is also excellent for this purpose)

of course you can try to gain 20 or 30 pounds of fat and two months later try to remove it again but this can be pretty hard (i know it wouldn't work for me on a high fat diet, i struggle to gain any weight at all) and probably a waste of time. it's better to force the removal of toxins from their storage sites through whatever means will do the trick, accept the detox symptoms as necessary, and remove them while they're in solution. that can be done through coffee enemas, castor oil, liver/gallbladder cleanses and so on.

wegge

3rd October 2012, 11:00

[QUOTE=The Truth Is In There;563588]
lastly, a meal every 60 minutes will force the body to digest continually and won't give it time to detox. detoxification usually happens during fasts when digestion rests. that's why intermittent fasting with just one large meal in the late afternoon or evening is very beneficial. during the morning and noon hours nothing or just a little easily digestible food high in enzymes is consumed (such as kefir, veggie juice, or i'm guessing high meat is also excellent for this purpose)

As I get it you start detoxing after the two months or during it. When you try to lose the weight your intake is reduced to very little and only when you´re very hungry so i think that´s the time when detoxification happens.

I think you could be right about the storage of different toxins. He did only spoke of "deep tissue" detox so I don´t know what is included in there.
I also think one could be able to handle the detox symptoms to a certain degree.

Mu2143

4th October 2012, 16:25

If been thinking about the kefir grains and could it be that the healing comes from the crystal it creates?
Like people uses crystals to heal. A crystal can act as a amplifier to create healing.
This makes more sence why you need the grains and with out it it loses its healing effect.

This video below has been posted before

Crystal Grid - Created by Seven Year Old
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV3xiHruZsA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV3xiHruZsA

Mu2143

4th October 2012, 16:28

I just got the idea to use kefir grains with soil for plant growth like your tomatoes or any other fruits and veggies?? maybe for some one to test this out.

A post (Kefir & Yogurt for Early Blight of July 2, 09) digressed into using Kefir on the soil.
Erythritol, a storage compound, is found in plants. To make erythritol as series of steps occur which eventually rely on the enzyme erythrose reductase (E.R.). This can occur in an optimal pH of around 7, but a range of 6 - 8 pH works (such as in most gardener's soil).
Torula is an extensive yeast family, the Torula Kefir strain included. There are torula yeast with the E.R. enzyme & possibly the kefir strain has it too. Yeasts like temperatures of 25*C./77*F. - 35*C./95*F. for activity ( but can take 20*C. - 40*C.)
If there is a benefit from incorporating kefir curds into the root zone of a plant it is most likely in bulking up the root erythritol & making a robust root capacity for better functioning.
The other kefir yeast, Saccharomyces Kefir, also has enzymes. These type of enzymes allow re-organization of amino acid (protein building blocks) in compounds. A substitution of an amino acid can change the behavior of an enzyme & set in motion a different process. (No speculation on any specific benefit is being made.)
(As for the kefir's symbiotic bacteria: it is likely to degrade in the garden from the summer heat. So, not subject of this post.)
Copper definitely inhibits yeast (it is fungicidal), so kefir curds would need to be used at a different time for any beneficial affect.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0714385531837.html

lightwalker

5th October 2012, 11:12

Great thread.. Has anyone here read "Wheat Belly" ? It has been on the NYT list for a year now. I have eliminated wheat from my home and in 4 days time I have lost weight around my middle......can you believe it. Anyway, the funny part for me was it took a "doctor/authority" to tell me that wheat is poison, for me to get excited about taking action. DUH! Who would have thunk.

I surmised the years I had fibromyalgia was because of wheat.....I had changed my diet but had not really eliminated all wheat. If you read the reviews to get an idea of how people are changing their lives from this simple book, that alone can (from my perspective) give someone the powerful incentive to stop eating wheat. I have had no cravings (sugar or wheat) in the 5 days I have been doing this. I'm pretty amazed. I do get hungry but not for sugar stuff.

I have used probiotics for years...some work most don't. I have been using a green drink daily for over 10 years, take vit C, Essential fatty acids, and filter my water using a Berkey filter.

The past 9 months have been a challenge from being out of work.....comfort foods came in.....and I must say in less than 1 week on changing my diet I have felt different.

If you read the review/comments on Amazon it might give you the incentive to just read the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Wheat-Belly-Lose-Weight-Health/product-reviews/1609611543/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Isn't it amazing the stuff we do to feel good (pasta, pizza, pie, Ben & Jerry's, martinis) only to feel lousey. And then the stuff we do to feel good ie vitamins, lot's and lot's of exercise, kefir, energy work, tapping, praying, 100 glasses of water, no sugar, no whatever's, lot's of sex, no sex, detox, etc etc etc......makes me want to believe in ascension.

Who would have thought that in the year 2012 we'd be on a forum talking about fermented food.

But beyond all of that, my desire and intention to be well and feel good has never wavered....my courage to be able to do that has. But I still get up, give gratitude for my day, put on some make-up....some things I just can't change.....love my self, eat well and live my life.

I'm rambling on cuz I just turned 65 this month and there is soooo much more I want to do and create in my life and maybe only about 30 more years to accomplish stuff.

Well....my advice to myself: do whatever it takes with honesty and integrity to feel good.

lightwalker

Conchis

5th October 2012, 11:40

Thanks to this thread, I've started fermenting just about everything in sight. I have a batch of sourdough going and have made some GREAT stuff with it. I have both milk and water kefir going and a half gallon jar of sauerkraut brewing (oh and I nearly forgot the 3 gallon carboy of mead). Everything about this process makes so much sense to me. Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention and posting about it!

wegge

8th October 2012, 10:03

I think i need some troubleshooting.

I got my kefir grains 2 days ago. They are enough for turning 500ml milk into kefir. I used one liter milk instead, but waited around 1,5 days. When i opened the glass today, half of it was water and the other half a kefir like mass, but it also didn´t form the kefir "mother". Has anyone an idea what happenend and what should I do?

Hervé

10th October 2012, 22:05

Wheat: 200 Clinically Confirmed Reasons Not To Eat It (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-clinically-confirmed-reasons-not-eat-wheat)

Posted on: Sunday, October 7th 2012 at 5:00 am
Written by: Sayer Ji, Founder (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/gmi-blogs/sayerji)

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/sites/default/files/ckeditor/sayerji/images/dangers_of_wheat.jpg
With sales of foods labeled gluten free now reaching over 6 billion dollars a year, something truly profound is happening to the way in which Americans are perceiving the role of wheat in their diets. Once celebrated as the very poster-child of the health food movement, folks are increasingly rejecting this "king of grains," and are now identifying it as being at the very root of their health problems.

Detractors claim that the movement is just a fad, or worse, that those who have embarked upon it without an official diagnosis are a bit crazy. After all, simply "feeling better" following gluten elimination is not considered to be proof of anything within the conventional medical system. Biopsies, antibody, and genetic tests later, if nothing is found, and you still think gluten – this 'sacred,' omnipresent grain – is a problem, you might just get referred to a psychiatrist.

But anecdotes and "subjective experience" aside, the type of clinical research that constitutes "Truth," with a capital T, from the perspective of the dominant medical establishment, can be found on the National Library of Medicine's biomedical database known as MEDLINE (http://www.pubmed.gov/). This vast bibliographic archive contains over 21 million citation entries, which as of time of this writing, contains 9,776 references to gluten (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=gluten).

There has been a sharp increase in interest and research on the topic of "gluten intolerance" – although we prefer to label the subject "gluten toxicity," in order to shift the focus away from the "victim" back to the "aggressor," the gluten itself. In 1971, there were 71 studies listed on MEDLINE which referenced gluten. Last year in 2011, there were 514.

One of our many interests here at GreenMedInfo.com is to identify "Problem Substances (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/greenmed/display/toxic-ingredient)," which is why we have created an index by that name with 698 subjects listed from A-Z. If you navigate to WHEAT (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/toxic-ingredient/wheat) under the "W's" you will find a list under "Advanced Topics" with 205 health conditions and/or adverse health effects associated with wheat consumption, all of which were determined solely through research in peer-reviewed and published medical journals indexed on MEDLINE.

You will also find, below the listed diseases, a "pharmacological actions" field set which lists 20 distinct ways in which wheat harms the body, e.g. nerve-damaging (neurotoxic), immune-damaging (immunoreactive), inflammatory, etc.

At present, the conventional medical establishment only identifies a handful of disorders likely to be caused by wheat consumption, such as:

Wheat Allergy
Celiac Disease
Dermatitis Herpetiformis
Exercise-Induced Wheat Anaphylaxis
These conditions, however, are but the tip of a massive "celiac" iceberg. In a previous essay, The Dark Side of Wheat (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/dark-side-wheat-new-perspectives-celiac-disease-wheat-intolerance-sayer-ji), we discussed the problem from a more philosophical perspective. There is now, however, a huge dataset firmly establishing the likelihood that wheat intolerance, or better yet, wheat toxicity, is a universal, human species-specific problem, occurring only in differing degrees, and mostly sub-clinically, at least through the optic of conventional screenings and technologies.

One must also account for the "invisible thorn," which is wheat lectin – known more technically as Wheat Germ Agglutinin (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/toxic-ingredient/wheat-germ-agglutinin-wga)(WGA) -- and which can cause a broad range of adverse health effects, even while being undetected through conventional screenings. Learn more about this topic in our essay Opening Pandora's Bread Box: The Critical Role of Wheat Lectin in Human Disease (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/opening-pandoras-bread-box-critical-role-wheat-lectin-human-disease).

In order to fully appreciate the extent of damage wheat and/or gluten consumption can have on the body, included "sprouted wheat" (since WGA is still present), view the screenshot from our Wheat page below:

[...]

Full article: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200...-not-eat-wheat (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-clinically-confirmed-reasons-not-eat-wheat)