You are in God.

[markpierre]

Hello friends.

I need to address something in myself that keeps me a little frustrated, and I think it's an unworthy need to be invisible as much as I can.
I haven't offered a lot, other than an occasional smartass remark or something useful if I know that I know what I'm saying. And a little confrontation maybe because I get some verifying little thrill from it.

But I need to offer you this, because you're my companions. The people in this little virtual world are a big part of my association with the outer world, and this experience in time for me.

When I'm looking at all the ideas that are offered about this year, and the 'possibilities' that people like to entertain, I feel a little numb. At first I was a little stirred and then a little frightened, angry, then stirred, and mostly confused. It is numbing. No one can discern the truth from any of it because there is no truth in it.

I can get in my car and drive to town, and I can tell someone later that 'I drove to town', and that seems like 'a truth'.
'Why' I drove to town is more to the truth of it.
Why is this all occurring? I don't care what it is that's occurring.

This is what I know, because this is what's happening to me.
More and more, I'm willing to engage the truth about me. What I know most certainly and what I'm most afraid of, is what I am, because it's totally different than my experience as a mind remote-controling a body around in space/time. Now I'm experiencing the incredible tension of a mind in a body stretching into the infinite.

The mind doesn't agree that it's okay to do that. It has a warehouse of fear that it throws up to distract that from occurring.

It's occurring anyway.

It's not fun. It's painful, even devestating a lot of the time.
Fear is the only obstacle. And it's not real in any sense.
But it's there, sometimes hidden. Don't misinterpret this; It's there in you too.

I squirm and complain, but I am in God. There is no other place. The world is not an entity separate from us, and we're not a virus that needs to be mutated so we don't kill her.
That's crazy. Insane. It's a movie screen.
The world, like everything on it and around it and that supports it is here for our benefit. The universe is an effect of your own consciousness. That's how big you are.
Ya...that is scary.

So I need to give you this because it's so evident to me, and not quite so to everyone.
Evidence of it doesn't change it. You are in God.

If you're worried, if you're excited, if you're confused or tired. You are in God. No matter what it seems is happening, no matter what you feel, what you know or think you know, what you fear the most, you are in God.
What you do, what you don't do.
Don't give me nonsense about what you think God is. I don't care, don't tell me.

There is only one root to every fear; that you're not safe. That you are not in God.
You can't be anything other than totally perfectly safe.
If it's your time, it's your time. If it isn't, there is a time. It doesn't matter.

Here is a warning; that when there's a bullet coming at you, it isn't the 'higher' mind that compels you to duck. Yet you'll choose 'don't get hit by the bullet' before you question why, or who is deciding.
You'll reason, 'well it's because I'm a body', or 'I have a body'.
It's entirely possible to mistake a portal for a bullet. You need to train your mind to allow, rather than interpret.
'Trust' is another term you can use. Work on it.
Don't do anything dumb like try to breath water, but try not adjusting from discomfort. That's easy and harmless.

So the scientists should like that, the Christians (maybe), ET guys, conspiracy guys, freedom guys, the seekers, etc. I love you all. You keep me going. We're all in God. You don't have to figure anything out.
Just love as much as you possibly can and especially allow yourself to be loved
and be safe. That's the core of the problem.

That's my effort for today. Thanks.

[Beren]

Thank you for this post.
It says about the thing that many across the history are trying to portrait to the 3D system of filters of understanding.
When we shut down the filters ,we see and are .
Never before.

[Eram]

Thanks markpierre,

I feel inspired and moved bye this post! :wave:

[PurpleLama]

Just relax, dude. Things will take care of themselves, they always have. When it's spring, you don't have to tell the flower to bloom.

[markpierre]

Relax? I think that's what I said. Things don't take care of themselves, they're taken care of as you take care of yourself. Even if it looks like Armageddon. Read dude. Don't interpret.

[Rogerc]

Hell Mark, just what did you see through that periscope?

You are in God - thats interesting because I have had some really weird experiences in life.

I've been shot down,ambushed and had engine failures as a helicopter pilot - I've survived.

However I thought it was just because I was a great pilot - how freaking egotistical is that?

What I experienced was a slow motion in these events and I have realised that the part of our brain that we don't know is there kicks into action and I believe that it's the part of God that we are which influences outcomes.

It's really hard to put into a post.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that in all of us there is a part of God or conversely God is in all of us - so ultimately don't worry.

I may have stuffed this up but thanks for you're understanding and advice in other posts.

Peace rogerc

[jorr lundstrom]

LOL I trust in this. God is taking care of God. Everything included.


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[markpierre]

Hell Mark, just what did you see through that pericope?

You are in God - thats interesting because I have had some really weird experiences in life.

I've been shot down,ambushed and had engine failures as a helicopter pilot - I've survived.

However I thought it was just because i was a great pilot - how freaking egotistical is that?

What I experienced was a slow motion in these events and I have realised that the part of our brain that we don't know is there kicks into action and I believe that it's the part of God that we are which influences outcomes.

It's really hard to put into a post.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that in all of us there is a part of God or conversely God is in all of us - so ultimately don't worry.

I may have stuffed this up but thanks for you're understanding and advice in other posts.

Peace rogerc

Thanks Roger. That was a cool post, but ya, it's a little misunderstood. It's the love and sharing that makes this group necessary, and it's the difficulty in expressing difficult things, that makes it difficult to contribute fully.
This isn't a worry thread. This is real. Transformation feels the way it feels. Mostly it's grueling, and the verification for it is nominal. The world can't acknowledge it, and the system is undone by it. The system at the moment is
crucial to functioning as we function now. We all know that we have no real contingency, we're just trusting that it will all sort out. Well it will. Not without some teeth gnashing. Not someone else's teeth gnashing.
And it's also mentioned here and there, that some people will get it and some people won't.

Every tradition alludes to a razors edge. We all individually have to stop looking outside of ourselves for solution and salvation.
It's very possible for each mind to meet that moment , and instinctively recoil.

Are you free and certain enough to jump off of the cliff? Or determined enough? You don't have to be perfectly certain or perfectly free, but you make a decision and it has to be understood beforehand that it's up to you.
And we can say that it's you who also designed the course according to the goal, but the human ego which is what keeps self identity identified with physicality, is not in on the plan. It's pure resistance.
Transformation to the ego is death. All of human history, and the acceleration of it in this time period, is human ego in diffidence to fact. We are IN God.
Yes God is experiential. but f you really knew it or believed it, you couldn't have a problem. If you want to know what it is that you really believe look around. What you see is what you believe.
The world is an effect, not a cause. Effect of what? A defective God?
No. An effect of the mind that you're using right now.
How's it going? Are you in God?
If that's so, there can't be a problem.

You couldn't worry, you couldn't entertain fear as a real influence. The bulk of the threads in the forum and replies are fear, expressed as subtly as 'these issues are real, and we're autonomous beings contending with them'.
We agree, and place our faith in an agreement. We 'agree' we're not separate? Who's there to agree with?

That's not it. That's not how it's going to happen. It doesn't happen anywhere except in you. It doesn't happen according to agreements with things that seem to be someone else..
We are in God. If you don't experience that, or trust that more than you trust your senses, you have a confrontation to meet. That's all the fear of all of human experience, tucked in amongst and directing your cells as that body that you identify as yourself.
You survived as a body to meet this moment. You were never in danger because this was the plan. But you couldn't have known that at the time. You met and overcame a lot of fear.
That was to assist you now. There's more fear to meet, but as you've discovered in retrospect, it isn't real.
That was the real You Roger, showing yourself your own human thinking. You can think you can die, but you can't.

A shift in paradigm is sudden, and a change from everything you know. Look at how much you depend on everything as it seems now.
Lot was instructed not to look back. That's just an allegory, but the allegories are many. What sorts of attachments would cause you to look back? It needs to be considered before the fact.
Some amongst us have spent hundreds of consecutive lifetimes doing nothing but that.

We're getting a lot of instructions and advice tossed at us. The the most effective way to not follow instructions is to agree with them, and pretend to follow them.

[another bob]

The Chain of Pretending


First we pretend that we exist as separate and enduring persons.

Then we pretend there are others who are going about and performing the same trick.

Then we pretend that we suffer some sort of separation between our pretend self and those imaginary others.

Then we pretend that we can find a way to relieve ourselves of our pretentious suffering.

If we happen to be very imaginative, we pretend that we have found such a path, a method, and then we go about enthusiastically proclaiming our religion to all of our fictional playmates.

We may even pretend that we are just the one to help alleviate their imaginary disease, pretending to be some philosopher, preacher, sage or priest.

It's fun to pretend.

Many take this seriously, or at least pretend to –
after all, it's fun to pretend!

That's why He pretends – Mister Satchitananda Himself.

Mr. Supreme Reality.

We say “He”, but that’s just pretending too.

He pretends to be us.

He pretends to forget He is just pretending.

Then He searches for Himself to find and remind Himself that He’s just been pretending.

He is so funny, and He just loves this game!

When He finally gets tired and takes a long nap, everything disappears.

Then there is nothing, the same state in which we now exist, but without the humorless baggage of our personal pretense.

No wonder it’s called “The Divine Comedy”!



:yo:

[Avocadess]

I'm not so certain that trying to breathe water is totally dumb. Someone very close to me did that for several breaths and did not even have to spit out water. I was there. However, it was a very special day. Another-dimensional kind of mystical day...and not something I would recommend. If it is the right time and thing for you to do, you will KNOW it...!!!

[markpierre]

The Chain of Pretending


First we pretend that we exist as separate and enduring persons.

Then we pretend there are others who are going about and performing the same trick.

Then we pretend that we suffer some sort of separation between our pretend self and those imaginary others.

Then we pretend that we can find a way to relieve ourselves of our pretentious suffering.

If we happen to be very imaginative, we pretend that we have found such a path, a method, and then we go about enthusiastically proclaiming our religion to all of our fictional playmates.

We may even pretend that we are just the one to help alleviate their imaginary disease, pretending to be some philosopher, preacher, sage or priest.

It's fun to pretend.

Many take this seriously, or at least pretend to –
after all, it's fun to pretend!

That's why He pretends – Mister Satchitananda Himself.

Mr. Supreme Reality.

We say “He”, but that’s just pretending too.

He pretends to be us.

He pretends to forget He is just pretending.

Then He searches for Himself to find and remind Himself that He’s just been pretending.

He is so funny, and He just loves this game!

When He finally gets tired and takes a long nap, everything disappears.

Then there is nothing, the same state in which we now exist, but without the humorless baggage of our personal pretense.

No wonder it’s called “The Divine Comedy”!

:yo:

Hey Bob, I love that transcendence stuff. I only wonder how to make it understandable. It never is.
It's great if you can hang out with the 20 or 30 guys on the planet right now who actually know what it means. Everyone else has to keep coming back and working with the thing they're trying to transcend.

[another bob]

Hey Bob, I love that transcendence stuff. I only wonder how to make it understandable. It never is.
It's great if you can hang out with the 20 or 30 guys on the planet right now who actually know what it means. Everyone else has to keep coming back and working with the thing they're trying to transcend.

Heya Mark!

You may be underestimating folks' ability to recognize the fact that they are not necessarily who they're pretending to be, if pointed out without judgment, condecension, or conceit. From there, it's not that difficult to mutually inquire a bit further. I've worked much of my life with the so-called salt of the earth, and you'd be surprised at the innate capacity of most people to intuit the way of things, perhaps with a little pointer here and there.

:yo:

[jorr lundstrom]

The one who took me here will have to take me home again.

Rumi

If here is anything left to take anywhere.( where that now is) LOL

Jorr


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrimphand.jpg


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[PurpleLama]

Sometimes the surest way to hit something is to stop trying to hit it.

[markpierre]

Hey Bob, I love that transcendence stuff. I only wonder how to make it understandable. It never is.
It's great if you can hang out with the 20 or 30 guys on the planet right now who actually know what it means. Everyone else has to keep coming back and working with the thing they're trying to transcend.

Heya Mark!

You may be underestimating folks' ability to recognize the fact that they are not necessarily who they're pretending to be, if pointed out without judgment, condecension, or conceit. From there, it's not that difficult to mutually inquire a bit further. I've worked much of my life with the so-called salt of the earth, and you'd be surprised at the innate capacity of most people to intuit the way of things, perhaps with a little pointer here and there.

:yo:

Ya maybe. I should get out more eh?

[jorr lundstrom]

Having crossed the river,
where will you go, O friend ?

There's no road to tread,
No traveler ahead,
Neither a beginning, nor an end.

There's no water, no boat, no boatman, no cord;
No earth is there, no sky, no time, no bank, no ford.

You have forgotten the Self within,
Your search in the void will be in vain;
In a moment the life will ebb
And in this body you won't remain.

Be ever conscious of this, O friend,
You've to immerse within your Self;
Kabir says, salvation you won't then need,
For what you are, you would be indeed.

Kabir


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/tomten-and-the-fox-2-detail.jpg


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[another bob]

I should get out more eh?

ya never know what you may find . . .


http://i39.tinypic.com/xw26b.gif

[Mystique]

This is interesting as I was just writing to myself about this very thing. Took a break, went online, and found this thread. Synchronistic.

To untangle the knottiness (naughtiness) of the way the labyrinth of my mind has trapped me into thinking, and then believing, that I am disconnected from the Source of Myself, I came up with this way to logically lay it out:

Q: Is there a Source of All that Is?
A: Yes. All that Is cannot create Itself, from "nothing."
So, there must be a Source that All that Is is being created from.
The Source of All that Is cannot create All that Is from "nothing."
If a thing can be referred to, it exists.
If it does not exist, it cannot be referenced.
Therefore, there is no such thing as "nothing."

If this is hard to get your mind to wrap around, try to imagine what "no thing" looks like.

If there is nothing outside of Source for It to create from,
then it creates from It, using It to create from.
Therefore, whatever It is, is It and as well Its' creations.

If all of the above is true, then as Its' creations, we are made of It, as the stuff It is made of - with no separation.
It also implies that if that is true for our Source, it is also true for Us and our creations.

[markpierre]

This is interesting as I was just writing to myself about this very thing. Took a break, went online, and found this thread. Synchronistic.

To untangle the knottiness (naughtiness) of the way the labyrinth of my mind has trapped me into thinking, and then believing, that I am disconnected from the Source of Myself, I came up with this way to logically lay it out:

Q: Is there a Source of All that Is?
A: Yes. All that Is cannot create Itself, from "nothing."
So, there must be a Source that All that Is is being created from.
The Source of All that Is cannot create All that Is from "nothing."
If a thing can be referred to, it exists.
If it does not exist, it cannot be referenced.
Therefore, there is no such thing as "nothing."

If this is hard to get your mind to wrap around, try to imagine what "no thing" looks like.

If there is nothing outside of Source for It to create from,
then it creates from It, using It to create from.
Therefore, whatever It is, is It and as well Its' creations.

If all of the above is true, then as Its' creations, we are made of It, as the stuff It is made of - with no separation.
It also implies that if that is true for our Source, it is also true for Us and our creations.

It implies. That's not good enough.

[another bob]

It implies. That's not good enough.

Well, maybe it's a good start. After Thomas Aquinas had written the Summa Theologica, the epitome of logical theology for his time, he was in his chapel one morning when the real deal knocked him for a loop. He remarked later that, after the chapel experience, everything he had thought and written before was so now realized to be just so much rubbish.


:yo:

[Godiam]

I AM

God and I sat and talked
just the other day
I asked Her why, sometimes it seems
that He is far away
She said to me "My Son"
I AM with you day by day
Even though you may not feel it
in your body made of clay
Your body may be flesh
but that is not you my son
Your TRUE SELF is my SPIRIT
I reside in everyone

I AM the Beggar, the Lawyer,
the Criminal, the Judge
My quite voice inside of you
keeps giving you a nudge
I AM the Father, the Mother
The Daughter, and the Son
My quite voice is calling,
"come back home everyone"

I pondered on what God had said
for a day or two
This is the gist of the message
I received for Me and You!

I have given You FREE WILL
With this comes forgetting
This means I cannot interfere
without you first requesting
You are here to remember
The DIVINITY of who You are
Create your reality, by controlling your thoughts
Shine Your LIGHT like a STAR!

Just a little poem I wrote that I thought might be an appropriate addition to this thread!

HUGS...........Godiam

[Mystique]

This is interesting as I was just writing to myself about this very thing. Took a break, went online, and found this thread. Synchronistic.

To untangle the knottiness (naughtiness) of the way the labyrinth of my mind has trapped me into thinking, and then believing, that I am disconnected from the Source of Myself, I came up with this way to logically lay it out:

Q: Is there a Source of All that Is?
A: Yes. All that Is cannot create Itself, from "nothing."
So, there must be a Source that All that Is is being created from.
The Source of All that Is cannot create All that Is from "nothing."
If a thing can be referred to, it exists.
If it does not exist, it cannot be referenced.
Therefore, there is no such thing as "nothing."

If this is hard to get your mind to wrap around, try to imagine what "no thing" looks like.

If there is nothing outside of Source for It to create from,
then it creates from It, using It to create from.
Therefore, whatever It is, is It and as well Its' creations.

If all of the above is true, then as Its' creations, we are made of It, as the stuff It is made of - with no separation.
It also implies that if that is true for our Source, it is also true for Us and our creations.

It implies. That's not good enough.

Well, I used the word "implies" because I wasn't ready to expand what is true from our Source to Us. But here goes:

If nothing exists outside of the Source of All that Is,
and We Are,
then We do not exist outside of that Source.
Therefore, We Are of Source, in Source, as Source.
We Are Source.
If you choose to image that Source and call that image "God", then
We Are God.

A way to get Our minds around this can be like this:

First of all, our parents didn't create us from "nothing."
Our physical bodies were created in our mother's physical body using the egg in her and the sperm of our father.
So our physical-ness was created from their physical-ness.

Q So what created physical-ness?
The Source of Everything that is physical, the Source of All that Is.
So, back to the original statement.

To go deeper into this idea, what about the things that we create?
A painting, a table, a blog, a thread on this forum, a dish of meatballs and spaghetti, etc...

We didn't personally create the paints and canvas (back to above about physical), the wood, the internet, words, the forum, cows and pasta... but we use those physical forms to create the other forms by making shapes with paints, a particular kind of chair, stringing words in our own unique ways, and making spaghetti with our own creative blend of spices.

But what precedes the way we use the physical forms, is a creative idea about how to bring them together in our own unique way.

So, what precedes physical form is a creative idea.

Q What is the Source of creative ideas?
The Source of All that Is.

I am not sure it is possible to "prove" what, exactly, what the Source of All that Is Is.
Asking the question "What" is a degree of separation that implies we don't already know - which is another way to pretend and play hide and seek with ourselves as Source.

However, I think that "creative ideas" points towards It.

I also think that trying to use the power of our creative ideas to form an image of that Source as a reflection of our own image by giving It a face, or personality, with emotions, and naming it, may be a way of expressing our connectiveness to Source, but it also gives form to that which is formless and ends up limiting the Eternal spaciousness of our Own creativity.

By naming It and imbuing It with our own ideas, I think we also claim ownership of It,
and then we can use that sense of ownership to argue and fight with each other over ideas of form
- instead of realizing that it's the power of ideas that gives Us the creative power to create Source in our own personal image.

If We accepted the power of creative ideas,
and We accepted that that Creative Power is creating Us,
and We are Creating It in our own Image,
then maybe we could form an endless loop that keeps feeding itself with more creativity
rather than to give that power away to a force "outside" of Us that doesn't exist.

[markpierre]

Well, I used the word "implies" because I wasn't ready to expand what is true from our Source to Us. But here goes:

If We accepted the power of creative ideas,
and We accepted that that Creative Power is creating Us,
and We are Creating It in our own Image,
then maybe we could form an endless loop that keeps feeding itself with more creativity
then to give that power away to a force "outside" of Us that doesn't exist.

Hey, I can appreciate that. Still, if it's good enough for you I'm happy. It still isn't enough for me.

That last bit is so beautiful. Can we substitute 'certain' in place of maybe? That REALLY works for me.

Hey, all this is about is opening up a solution, where conceptually we can agree there is no problem.
But for all the individuals who could read this thread who are experiencing confusion and anxiety and dissociation and in or toying with their 'dark nights'.
That's who it's for. And physical stuff, my god. Nearly all of the people I've worked with over the years are right now in real contention with being bodies, and performing in any normal way. I know I'm not alone in that. It's all okay, it ends in joy.

It's blessed pain, but it hurts when it hurts.

Or we can bat concepts about enlightenment around for a while again. That's sort of been done. When all we do is avoid the shadows, they never get revealed for what they are.

[Carolin]

"I am not sure it is possible to "prove" what, exactly, what the Source of All that Is Is."

Reminds me of Nassim Haramein's work which has been shared before but is pertinent to this discussion. There is scientific proof "we are in God" and vice versa.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5bXdx5UrE

[markpierre]

Hey Carolin! Scientific proof is cool. How does it feel?

[meeradas]

He is such a rascal!

[Carolin]

Hey Carolin! Scientific proof is cool. How does it feel?

The feeling it gives me is contentedness. I've been very very fortunate to wake up most days and know I am exactly where I am supposed to be, doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I feel blessed, grateful and in awe of the synchronicities that unfold around me. I trust there is a higher intelligence or a greater plan than I could ever have envisoned. As I shared with you in PMs, the only time I didn't feel this is when I got sucked into the trend of trying to create my own reality. Now I try to leave it to God, remain receptive, just be and enjoy the ride.

[markpierre]

Hey Carolin! Scientific proof is cool. How does it feel?

The feeling it gives me is contentedness. I've been very very fortunate to wake up most days and know I am exactly where I am supposed to be, doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I feel blessed, grateful and in awe of the synchronicities that unfold around me. I trust there is a higher intelligence or a greater plan than I could ever have envisoned. As I shared with you in PMs, the only time I didn't feel this is when I got sucked into the trend of trying to create my own reality. Now I try to leave it to God, remain receptive, just be and enjoy the ride.

That's what I needed to hear this morning. Thanks my friend. Now I can get out there today and not plan to my hearts content.

[Neptun]

The tiny drop is one of us. The rest of the world ocean is God.

We are Gods, as tiny as the drops are of the entire God.

http://media.onsugar.com/files/ons1/517/5170429/39_2009/1382bfe8df7449e7_snake_river4_1600x1200.jpg

[Rogerc]

Line from the Moody Blues "In Search of the Lost Chord"

"I think I am, Therefore I am"

Don't know who wrote the line but there's a lot in it.

Thanks neptun = Pretty much encapsulates my philosophy - that's why I smile most of the time.

The Bhagavad Gita was what consoled me at last for the guilt I felt from killing in SVN.

"Do your duty as you see fit, have no guilt as long as you learn and once having learnt do not repeat that which you have judged to be in error, rather accept it as Kharma" (not a quote but my précis).

I seem to remember it was Lord Shiva's reply to some dude who when preparing for battle asked what he should do when faced with his relatives and friends in the opposing army

Peace and love to all

(Sorry Nora I edited after you posted a thanks, feel free to withdraw)

[Neptun]

Rogerc,

You are welcome.

It makes us big and small at the same time.

I know God is within me and I can feel it what makes me big, I know, I'm a creator of the reality and can manifest things, but it also makes me feel very humble, because I know how tiny I am compared to how huge God is.

If you ever have problems that feel very big or have ego problems. Watch this:
HEheh1BH34Q

[Rogerc]

eeeeEEEK!!

What was John Cleese's song?

[another bob]

Line from the Moody Blues "In Search of the Lost Chord"

"I think I am, Therefore I am"

Don't know who wrote the line but there's a lot in it.


The original French, from the philosopher Rene Descartes (1596-1650), is: “Je pense, donc je suis.” This was translated into Latin by a priest friend of Descartes as “Cogito ergo sum.” In English, it has been rendered as “I think, therefore I am.”

Descartes is mistaken in a number of points. First of all, the proposition itself, “I think, therefore I am” is a tautological contradiction. The contradiction lies in the fact that while the proposition seeks to show the process whereby one can know the existence of “I,” already from the start it is presupposing that existence in the words, “I think.” This contradiction seems at first to be only a matter of word usage and not something essential to the argument. However, it is really closely tied up with the essence of the problem.

“Thinking” is a reality that cannot be excluded. Up to this point it is true just as Descartes maintained. However, the next step in which Descartes knows the existence of “I” by “therefore I am” is where Descartes fell into error. Where in the world did Descartes bring in this “I”? Where in the world did Descartes find this “I”? As soon as Descartes started with “I think,” he already had fallen into this error.

There is no substantial and concrete entity that can be found beyond that reality of “thinking.” No matter where one looks, something called “I” does not exist. No matter how much intellectual knowledge one may have, insofar as one does not directly penetrate the illusion of "I", one cannot discover their own true nature. There is nothing one can point to and say “that is self” - it is not body, not thinking, not sense-impressions, and so on. It cannot be grasped in terms of either 'existing' or 'not-existing'.

“I think, therefore I am” must be re-phrased as “Thinking, but there is no I.”




The Bhagavad Gita was what consoled me at last for the guilt I felt from killing in SVN.

"Do your duty as you see fit, have no guilt as long as you learn and once having learnt do not repeat that which you have judged to be in error, rather accept it as Kharma" (not a quote but my précis).

I seem to remember it was Lord Shiva's reply to some dude who when preparing for battle asked what he should do when faced with his relatives and friends in the opposing army

It was Krishna, and the dude was Arjuna.


War Movie In Reverse


Holes close to smooth skin
when the shrapnel flashes out.
The shores of burns recede,
and flames leap with their hot metal
back into the bomb that rises,
whole and air-borne again,
with its gathered blast.
Leading the plane perfectly,
the bomb arcs back slowly
through the open gates
and disappears into the waiting belly.
The bombardier lifts
his peering eye from the sight.
Swallowing its wake,
the plane returns to base
with its countermand mission.
The pilot, irresolute now, faces
his commandant, who marches,
brisk and backward
to the general's lair.
The general takes back the orders.
But into what deep and good and hidden
recess of the will
go his thoughts of not bombing?"

~ Mark Johnston


:yo:

[Rogerc]

another bob,

What can "I" say . Poor Descartes - poor "Me". "We" don't exist.

That's probably why I withdrew from philosophy many years ago.

Thats a magnificent treatise of yours , extremely erudite - is it original thought?

Is there in fact any such thing as original thought.

As intelligence progressed I wonder whether the first person who had time after hunting, gathering and survival having time to sit, look at the heavens and wonder about his place in the scheme of things ask the very same questions that we still struggle with.

Thanks for Krishna and Arjuna I really should have remembered that. Isn't Shiva the hit man?

The Moody Blues song (even if based on an incorrect precept) is really good music.

Thanks again and remind me not to engage in philosophical debates with you !!!.

I'm off to the pub..... shag Descartes, he dropped me in the ****!

[another bob]

another bob,

What can "I" say . Poor Descartes - poor "Me". "We" don't exist.

"No reason to get excited, the thief he kindly spoke, for there are many here among us, who think that life is but a joke. But you and I we've been through that, and this is not our fate, so let us stop talking falsely now -- the hour's geting late." (followed by wailing guitar riff . . .)


4AuxJH2Mj30





Imperturbable


Real understanding is only true of one when anchored in imperturbability, and so in this dreamy realm we call “the world” it appears to be very rare.

Nobody can claim it, for to do so is itself a perturbation. Every claim, every concept, falls short of understanding.

Every concept is a perturbation.

Love beyond conception itself can seem a perturbation when misunderstood. It can be resisted, but it will do what it came here to do, regardless of our comprehension.

Love is life, life is love. When it seems the two are somehow separate – divided -- there is perturbation. When they are realized to be “not two”, the knot at the heart relaxes.

When mind appears, there is perturbation. When mind disappears, there is rest. At rest in the midst of perturbation is true understanding, true equanimity.

Sometimes, often for most, it seems there is only perturbation: one endless stretch of falling dominoes, movement always in reaction, whittled down to the fine mind bones of a core contraction -- this trick we call “myself” -- so that we never come to rest.

There seems to be a matrix of enduring identity, of unbroken continuity, that feels just like “me”, the sense that I have that I am who I seem, despite the play of circumstance that changes like the shifting schemes of shallow sleep we twist in while we dream.

Looking further into this, we can see that it’s not so. No such a character can be found. It’s like a story we’ve been telling ourselves, so we won’t feel perturbed by the emptiness of how things seem.

Still, the one who seems perturbed is not the end of the story. It actually is the story, though nothing to be perturbed about -- it’s only just pretend.


:yo:

[Rogerc]

Hi another bob,

I can assure you that I'm probably the last person in the world to get excited or upset.

In this life I have been a soldier, a lover, a father and a grandfather

In the early seventies I (We) lived on a commune in the rainforest of FNQ.

I have meditated and flown with my inner self, I have been a vegetarian and a carnivore.

I have listened to countless souls who professed to know the truth, from the church which I find shallow and to esoterics who can be equally so.

Throughout my life I have been subject to many trauma and have been fortunate to have had and listened to a guiding spirit.

I have formulated from a cornucopia of wisdom and ignorance my own way. But it is my way alone. I would not dream of foisting my beliefs on others who are in the process. I stumble, I fall but I pick myself up and start again.

But for us less intelligent and without your obvious insights please keep it simple - it is distracting to consult a thesaurus when stepping carefully through some posts.

"Sometimes, often for most, it seems there is only perturbation: one endless stretch of falling dominoes, movement always in reaction, whittled down to the fine mind bones of a core contraction -- this trick we call “myself” -- so that we never come to rest." (another bob)

Keep it simple please bob, maybe you could précis some of that stuff.

Some great authors and philosophers finest works are in their shortest tomes - Herman Hess, Siddartha - Khalil Gibran, The Prophet and many more. Their aim is to enlighten not confuse.

cheers and love to all rogerc

[another bob]

Keep it simple please bob, maybe you could précis some of that stuff.



Hiya Roger!

Sometimes a lot of nuance and richness can be missed by putting it all in cliff note talk. The journey to the "bottom line" doesn't need to be a straight line. Life isn't. I'm not from the texting/acronymn generation, and come from a place that appreciates a more elegant turn of phrase on occasion. Please don't take my word play personally -- I'm speaking to everything and everyone, to the whole universe in fact, and in my own sui generis style, to borrow a phrase from a mutual friend, but if it confuses you, please ignore it.

:yo:

(Speaking of confusion, by the way, what's FNQ?)

[Debra]

Never thought I would be in love with a poem about war .. what an astounding piece !

Thank you AB ;)

aNL6nmsxvxc



War Movie In Reverse


Holes close to smooth skin
when the shrapnel flashes out.
The shores of burns recede,
and flames leap with their hot metal
back into the bomb that rises,
whole and air-borne again,
with its gathered blast.
Leading the plane perfectly,
the bomb arcs back slowly
through the open gates
and disappears into the waiting belly.
The bombardier lifts
his peering eye from the sight.
Swallowing its wake,
the plane returns to base
with its countermand mission.
The pilot, irresolute now, faces
his commandant, who marches,
brisk and backward
to the general's lair.
The general takes back the orders.
But into what deep and good and hidden
recess of the will
go his thoughts of not bombing?"

~ Mark Johnston
:yo:

[another bob]

The War Is Over

"Except for deserted wilderness what is there to protect?"

~Joshu

The war is over -- nobody survived. No time to mourn the dead, sunrise over the settling dust was too captivating for any lament.

Crimson trails of mind's lingering exhaust scar-streaked dawn's early sky, as if the dream of night itself exploded, as if from now on there would be flooding daylight only, though even that wild wonder will fall in time from the eyes, till what remains is not of time, not of mind, yet even in its flash of vanishing -- true balm for wounded hearts.

We wake and rise and fall breathless into this luminosity, this sky meadow vibrant with vernal signs, hues, and vivid budding wonders -- the ordinary evidence of everything changing, even as we ourselves are changed beyond all expectation.

Something unspeakable, unimaginable, falls deeper into the serene still presence of itself, no longer fixed in desperate conflict with itself, just drifting aimlessly over a killing floor where nobody survives, nobody lingers to tell brave tales of some imagined victory.

Yes, fight on Arjuna! Do your best!

We'll be down in Krishna's Kitchen, cooking everybody lunch.

Today's ala carte menu will be hand-lettered in a spicy calligraphy of love's rocket-red glare, with combustible garnish: heads flaming in air.

Each crispy ash-head will eventually reincarnate as a kind of moon, orbiting its own promised world, drifting in a space we all once hoped would be the case when peace ruled every planet, and love outshone the stars.


:yo:

[Rogerc]

Keep it simple please bob, maybe you could précis some of that stuff.



Hiya Roger!

Sometimes a lot of nuance and richness can be missed by putting it all in cliff note talk. The journey to the "bottom line" doesn't need to be a straight line. Life isn't. I'm not from the texting/acronymn generation, and come from a place that appreciates a more elegant turn of phrase on occasion. Please don't take my word play personally -- I'm speaking to everything and everyone, to the whole universe in fact, and in my own sui generis style, to borrow a phrase from a mutual friend, but if it confuses you, please ignore it.

:yo:

(Speaking of confusion, by the way, what's FNQ?)

Hey there bob, Far North Queensland. We choose to be a bit different up in the tropics than our temperate , (climate wise that is),friends down south.

Ok Ok i'll console myself with referencing Roget's

I'm not a texter either but do believe in 'say what you mean, and mean what you say'

To quote Kahlil Gibran- (The Prophet and the art of peace) :

"And then a scholar said, Speak of Talking.
And he answered saying:
You talk when you cease to be at peace with for thoughts;
And when you can no longer dwell in the solitude of your heart you live in your lips, and sound is a diversion and a pastime.

And in much of your talking, thinking is half murdered.
For thought is a bird of space, that in a cage of words may indeed unfold it's wings but cannot fly.

There are those among you who seek the talkative through of fear of being alone.

The silence of aloneness reveals to their eyes their naked selves and they would escape.

And there are those who talk, and without knowledge or forethought reveal a truth which they themselves do not understand.

And there are those who have the truth within them, but they tell it not in words.

In the bosom of such as these the spirit dwells in rhythmic silence."

Simple, understandable and very meaningful.

I want to unwind the oft misunderstood complexities of language so that a simple 'grunt' conveys all.;)

[Rogerc]

Sometimes the surest way to hit something is to stop trying to hit it.

Thanks PL - succinct, to the point and even I can understand it

[Rogerc]

Silly you it's because of the proven difference between 10^93gm/cm^3 and 10^55gm/Cm^3 - geezus markpierre :roll eyes:
[
QUOTE=markpierre;467493]Hey Carolin! Scientific proof is cool. How does it feel?[/QUOTE]

[markpierre]

"And there are those who talk, and without knowledge or forethought reveal a truth which they themselves do not understand.

And there are those who have the truth within them, but they tell it not in words.

In the bosom of such as these the spirit dwells in rhythmic silence."



That was really good. I liked it.
I spend about 95% of my time alone. But even if it's at a cafe or shopping, it's alone.
And you know what? It's really nice and quiet. I'd never had that before I drew a circle around myself.
And I had to almost die again to be forced to do it.

I'm so slow.

[Rogerc]

"And there are those who talk, and without knowledge or forethought reveal a truth which they themselves do not understand.

And there are those who have the truth within them, but they tell it not in words.

In the bosom of such as these the spirit dwells in rhythmic silence."



That was really good. I liked it.
I spend about 95% of my time alone. But even if it's at a cafe or shopping, it's alone.
And you know what? It's really nice and quiet. I'd never had that before I drew a circle around myself.
And I had to almost die again to be forced to do it.

I'm so slow.

On ya markpierre,

This is probably more on topic: ( again my dearest Khalil )

"And an old priest said, Speak to us of Religion.

And he said: Have I spoken this day of aught else?

Is not religion all deeds and all reflection?

And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?

Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations?

Who can spread his hours before him, saying, "This is for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?

All your hours are wings that beat through space from self to self.

He who wears his morality but as his garment were better naked.

The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.

And he who defines his conduct by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage.

The freest song comes not through barbs and wires.

And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.

Your daily life is your temple and your religion.

Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.

Take the plow and the forge and the mallet and the lute;

The things you have fashioned for necessity or delight.

For in reverie you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than you failures.

And take with you all men:

For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair.

And if you know God, be not therefore a solver of riddles.

Rather look about you and you will see Him playing with your children.

And look into space; you shall see him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in the rain.

You shall see him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in the trees."

[markpierre]

Your daily life is your temple and your religion.


That's cool, but he's kind of busy for my mind. I really like the line I plucked out, that's where everything is happening. It can get weird though, we have to allow that.

[Rogerc]

Your daily life is your temple and your religion.


That's cool, but he's kind of busy for my mind. I really like the line I plucked out, that's where everything is happening. It can get weird though, we have to allow that.
Yeh, I get a bit that way with another bob's postings - I'm sure he's got it together but I'm just too attention deficient to get my head around it.

[Carolin]

I just saw this on facebook.........thought I would share :-)

The song of the bird, the beauty of the rose, the buzz of the bee, the activities of those things that give forth in themselves the expressions of the joy of just using--for the time being--a portion of God in their activity. Would that all men everywhere could gain but that consciousness in life and life's experience... ~ from Edgar Cayce reading 410-2

[another bob]

To quote Kahlil Gibran- (The Prophet and the art of peace) :

Well, different strokes, eh. To my reading, Gibran is mostly pretentious twadle and wannabe guruism, wrapped up in biblical blather.



I want to unwind the oft misunderstood complexities of language so that a simple 'grunt' conveys all.;)

http://i41.tinypic.com/11wg514.gif

[Rogerc]

:tea:Bob , that was beautifully put, I laughed my ass off and just splattered coffee over my keyboard.

I walked straight into that one

And so damned simple.

That was your equivalent of a grunt, it's in you my boy :cheer2:

[Maia Gabrial]

I wanted to add my 2 cents to all of this philosophical stuff. That it doesn't matter if you're in 3D or whatever dimension, whatever parallel world, past, present or future, whatever body, shape or density you're in, you will always be part of the Great Cosmic Body of the Creator..... (There! I said it....!)

[Mystique]

It has occurred to me that our concept of God is that God is Eternal.

We are of that which is Eternal.

That means that we never began, and never will end. We have always been.

God did not invent time, humans did, as Gods.

Time did not exist before the printing press, according to Marshal McLuhan.

We created something that didn't exist, and have become trapped within a false construct - to the point where we think we have to die and leave our bodies in order to get out of it.

That would mean that all these creation stories told to us by "Gods" are a way to enslave the creativity of our Minds by imagining ourselves to have beginnings from those who want us to believe they are greater than Us.

[Rogerc]

"The Alpha IS the Omega"


It has occurred to me that our concept of God is that God is Eternal.

We are of that which is Eternal.

That means that we never began, and never will end. We have always been.

God did not invent time, humans did, as Gods.

Time did not exist before the printing press, according to Marshal McLuhan.

We created something that didn't exist, and have become trapped within a false construct - to the point where we think we have to die and leave our bodies in order to get out of it.

That would mean that all these creation stories told to us by "Gods" are a way to enslave the creativity of our Minds by imagining ourselves to have beginnings from those who want us to believe they are greater than Us.

[Rogerc]

" If that's 2 cents Maia I'm eagerly waiting for the dollar"


I wanted to add my 2 cents to all of this philosophical stuff. That it doesn't matter if you're in 3D or whatever dimension, whatever parallel world, past, present or future, whatever body, shape or density you're in, you will always be part of the Great Cosmic Body of the Creator..... (There! I said it....!)