Curious Case of Criminal Last Names

[marlowe]

In 1978 I was looking through a book called New Dictionary of American Family Names by Elsdon C. Smith :{ it is availabe in most public libraries} I happened to glance at an open newspaper at a story about serial killers.I began looking up the last name meanings of murderers.I discovered that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of four types of location last names.
{1} Dweller or near in a swamp,moor,wasteland,marsh or muddy place.
{2} Dweller in a forest ,grove of trees,or clearing in a wood.
{3} Dweller in a deep valley or hollow.
{4} Dweller on barren or uncultivated land.
Examples:
Richard Speck>Speck:On who came from Speke {brushwood} in Lancashire.
Kissinger {German} One who came from Kissing{swamp} in Germany.
Cheney {French} One who came from Chaney{oak grove} in France.
Bush :Dweller on barren ground {brushy/land where bushes/weeds grow}

George Bush,Henrey Kissenger & Dick Cheney are considered "criminals guilty of war crimes".

[crosby]

wow marlowe, this deserves a ton more attention. you have hit on something not discussed before........ you are awesome.....
warmest regards, corson

ps: welcome to avalon!

[crosby]

:bump::bump:

[marlowe]

A popular loan-name among Roman men was Silvanus,which developed from the "Roman god of uncultivated land beyond the boundaries of tillage,",,,,A man with the name of Silvanus was depicted as "uncanny & dangerous"

Silvan {English} A descendant of Silvan or Silvanus {the woods}
Silva{Spainish/Portugese} One who came from Silva {thicket of briers:woods}

[crosby]

how bout the name 'strong'?
regards, corson

[marlowe]

how bout the name 'strong'?
regards, corson

Strong,Strongs {English} One with great physical powers,a strong man.

[marlowe]

In the best selling nonfiction book The Devil in the White City the writer tells the true tale of one of America's first serial killers ,Herman Mudget,who built a "hotel" near the 1893 Chicago Worlds Fair.This "hotel" had a gas chamber,disecting table,and crematorium..where the women Mudget lured to his establishment met their deaths.

Mudget:{English} Dweller in or near a swamp....

Curmudgeon: a bad tempered ,cantankerous,difficult man....this word is related to Mudget IMO.

Lake:{English} Dweller at a dried up water course in the moors,
Leonard Lake video taped his murders in California .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Lake

[crosby]

please check link. not working properly.
regards, corson

sorry, now it is working fine. my bad.

[marlowe]

Palin:{Swedish}dweller near a swamp or marsh......{the term Beyond the Pale is related to Palin in meaning IMO.
Sarah's maiden name is Heath>>Heath {English} One who came from Heath,wasteland with low shrubs.
{these people tend to marry each other IMO....birds of a feather flock together.....

Romney:{English} One who came from Romney {island in a marsh}..

Terence McKenna said that the more he looked into history on the fine grained level it seemed to him as if it was like a well written novel....with coincedences,building tension,release language,plot twists,etc...

Charles Dickens & other writers often chose the names of their characters carefuly to give a hint as to what their character is like....

[marlowe]

Boys Don't Cry,the movie that Hilary Swank won her first Oscar for, was based on a true story...
The murderer's real name was Lotter,which means "a ne're do well or One good for nothing.

Lottman:one who came from Lotte {muddy water} in Germany.

[marlowe]

People who were involved in trying to or succeding in killing a President of the USA....
Guisseppi Zangora attempted to kill President Franklin Roosevelt on Sept 22,1933 in Florida.
He missed but shot 5 other people ,killing one...Zangora {Italian} dweller in a mire or swampy place.
**********************************************************
John Hinckley<<<shooter of Ronald Reagen //Hinck means bear cub:Ley means clearing in a wood>>Same as Lee..
*************************************************************
Sara Jane Moore shot at Gerald Ford on Sept 22,1975.missing his head by inches,
Moore:Dweller in or near a marsh or wasteland.{strangly,Moore was a neighbor of Charles Manson as a child.}
********************************************************
E.Howard Hunt & Clay Shaw were involved in the JFK hit...
Hunt means One who hunted wild game,a huntsman,
Shaw means dweller in a thicket or copse of trees.
Oswald was the patsy but he was involved...imo.
Oswald means dweller in the eastern forest.
Lee means dweller in a clearing in a wood.
Harvey means Descendant of Harvey :bitter,carnage-worthy.
***********************************************************
Arthur Bremer...One who came from Bremer in northern Germany....this whole area of Northern Germany is low lying with lots of swamps,marshes,etc.
Bremer shot at George Wallace...but there were 8 shots fired & Bremer's gun only held 6 rounds...he was a Manchurian candidate IMO.

[marlowe]

wow marlowe, this deserves a ton more attention. you have hit on something not discussed before........
warmest regards, corson

ps: welcome to avalon!

Thanks corson,it's great to be here.
*****************************************************************************
"I think the sounds & names carry vibrations within them & that linage & ancestral heritage carries a karma of sorts that repeats itself through future generations ....{but that doesn't mean someone cannot rise above or sink below their ancestral karma."....by Chryoprase on another forum
*********************************************************************************
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jukes_family
The Jukes is a study of a criminal family that spans generations in New York state.The name "Jukes" is a pseudonym.
Make of it what you will.

[meat suit]

Kissing doesnt mean swamp in german... not sure if its swampy down there either....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing,_Bavaria
oh look, below is a link to ****ing in Austria....

whats with the auto censoring??? MODs !!! ..... ;)

[marlowe]

Kissing doesnt mean swamp in german... not sure if its swampy down there either....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing,_Bavaria
oh look, below is a link to ****ing in Austria....

whats with the auto censoring??? MODs !!! ..... ;)

On page 276 of New Dictionary of American Family Names it says "Kissinger,Kissing {Ger}One who came from Kissing{swamp} in Germany.

Your link says nothing about what Kissing means..It only gives info about a municipality in Bavaria which in the distant past had a hill that was swept away by the flooding of the river Lech. Not exactly a high & dry place by the looks of it....Have you ever been to Bavaria?

[deridan]

who doesn't come from the swamp , valley , forest , or bush? yeah, those from the plateau, those are real people !, and those who choose surnames meaning other things, those guys are real lucky... huh

[marlowe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh

http://ancestry.com/facts/Unruh-name-meaning.ashx

Howard Unruh was America's first modern mass murderer...he killed 13 people in his neighborhood on Sept.6,1949.
Unruh : a restless or quarrelsome person.

[Avocadess]

I don't believe Oswald was one of the shooters of Kennedy. He was a patsy, just like he said, and he was shot before he could get a chance to spill what beans he had. Much new information has come out about Oswald by the way in Ed Haslam's book Dr. Mary's Monkey as well as in Judyth
Vary Baker's book Me and Lee

Oswald did not kill Kennedy -- and more than that, he did not WANT to kill Kennedy...! He was set up, and he knew he was set up, but didn't have a clue on how to extricate himself. The best he felt he could do was to NOT shoot at Kennedy, and I believe that that is exactly what he did, was he did not even shoot at him (if he shot at all).

Another interesting thing came up -- I wish I could remember who said it -- maybe someone here will remember -- Oh! I think I remember now that it was Ed Dames the remote viewer who said it -- that Kennedy was actually shot from a device that had been installed in the dashboard of the car he was in. It was set pointing right at his head and I don't think Dames said who did it, but I imagine it was either the driver or Connally (who was in the passenger right seat) who must have had some button to push or something of the like to activate it. This also explains WHY the car itself was immediately DESTROYED -- they destroyed the evidence!

Sorry for going off-topic. Just upsets me when I hear his name in a list of assassins (even though you posted that you knew he was a patsy).

[marlowe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Weidmann
The last person to be publically executed by guillitine in France.

Weidmann_{German} One who hunted game ,a huntsman.

[marlowe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec
The Aztecs/Mexicas migrated from the north & eventually settled on a small SWAMPY island in Lake Texcoco in 1325...this island was their base for over 100 years until 1428 when they became the dominant power in central Mexico.
I read a book that I can no longer locate that said the Aztecs subsisted by eating ,fish,reptiles & pond scum while living on the island.

The Aztecs instituted the idea of continual,ongoing warfare & human sacrifice on a grand scale to keep the Sun moving across the sky.

[truth4me]

In the best selling nonfiction book The Devil in the White City the writer tells the true tale of one of America's first serial killers ,Herman Mudget,who built a "hotel" near the 1893 Chicago Worlds Fair.This "hotel" had a gas chamber,disecting table,and crematorium..where the women Mudget lured to his establishment met their deaths.

Mudget:{English} Dweller in or near a swamp....

Curmudgeon: a bad tempered ,cantankerous,difficult man....this word is related to Mudget IMO.

Lake:{English} Dweller at a dried up water course in the moors,
Leonard Lake video taped his murders in California .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Lake
Just read that wikipedia article about Lake. What's the deal with men wanting their wives to appear in porno films? seriously, I knew a guy who got mad- real mad at his wife for not having oral sex with another man for $ 20.00. I ask him why he did that and his reply was "that's 20 dollars we could have had". I tell you there is a lot of messed up people that you DON'T read about in the newspapers running around. Anyone who would "pimp"out their wife is in need of some serious mental help....

[marlowe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec
The Aztecs/Mexicas migrated from the north & eventually settled on a small SWAMPY island in Lake Texcoco in 1325...this island was their base for over 100 years until 1428 when they became the dominant power in central Mexico.
I read a book that I can no longer locate that said the Aztecs subsisted by eating ,fish,reptiles & pond scum while living on the island.

The Aztecs instituted the idea of continual,ongoing warfare & human sacrifice on a grand scale to keep the Sun moving across the sky.

sorry,,,double post....:o

[marlowe]

who doesn't come from the swamp , valley , forest , or bush? yeah, those from the plateau, those are real people !, and those who choose surnames meaning other things, those guys are real lucky... huh

Most people did not choose their last names.....they were given last names by tax collectors....there are several basic types of last names.
{1} vocation >>Butcher,baker,candle maker.
{2} Location >>Dweller on ahill top,dweller in a swamp,etc.
{3} appearence..Red head,swarthy complection,crippled.
{4} descendant of a certain person.
{5} circumstances of birth..Born on a Sunday,born with a cowel,etc.

[marlowe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joran_van_der_Sloot

Joran van der Sloot is considered the most likely killer of Natalee Holaway...he is currently in prison in Peru for murdering another woman.
van der Sloot :dweller near a reedy ditch or quagmire.

[Kelly]

Lol, i work in Speke, its not so much brushwood now, as it is mostly bricks and concrete, but there is an estuary that runs through there, and yes, its mostly brushy there, and would have been all over years ago!
So does this mean, that people who's names coincide with these types of places, have it somehow in their make up to be nasty?
I dunno, im still out on that one, but, its something to think about ;)

[marlowe]

Lol, i work in Speke, its not so much brushwood now, as it is mostly bricks and concrete, but there is an estuary that runs through there, and yes, its mostly brushy there, and would have been all over years ago!
So does this mean, that people who's names coincide with these types of places, have it somehow in their make up to be nasty?
I dunno, im still out on that one, but, its something to think about ;)throwback :a reversion to an earlier ancestral type or character<atavism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
Take a look at the photo of Richard Speck....In my opinion he is a genetic throwback to his more primative Neanderthal ancestors....
Note:in the following post I will refer to Neanderthal/Cromagnon hybrids as Neanderthals...

Ages ago the Cromagnons drove the Neanderthals into the swamps,forests,& wastelands and took all the prime real estate for themselves....All people who wouldn't behave were exciled to the badlands as well, where they lived a dog eat dog existance..At times becoming preditors in order to survive.If you were an outlander you lived "Beyond the PALE."Towns were gated,,,locked up at night and watchman were hired to keep a lookout for thieves trying to climb the walls. ...the Neanderthals were given location names around 1000 AD .

********************Time Passes*************************
Around 1345 the Black Plague kills off 1/3 or the population of Europe.Farm labor is scarce & the Neanderthals step up in the world and become serfs.
*********************more time passes************************
When the Industrial Revolution starts up around 1790 some of the Neanderthals move to the cities where they have access to gin,beer,whiskey,prostitution,gambling & crime.Some of the Neanderthals return to their old preditory ways and become criminals,loan sharks,gamblers,and eventually bankers,lawyers,and politicians....And their last names have followed them .............................
.......................................................................:scared:

[marlowe]

Atavism:the reappearance in an individual of characteristics of some remote ancestor that has been absent in the intervening years.

When a tame dog like a pit bull suddenly goes wild and attacks a person,usually a child,biologists call this reversion...

[marlowe]

5 US soldiers will be prosecuted of killing Afgan & Iraqi civilians {for sport}
{1} andrew Holmes>dweller on an island in a stream.
{2} jeremy Morlock>dweller on a moor by a lake.
In his scifi novel The Time Machine H.G.Wells called the people who lived underground the Morlocks...the Morlocks hunted & fed on the Elee,who lived above ground.
{3} adam Winfield>meadow,pasture
{4} Wagnon means farmer.
{5} Gibbs is definatly not a "swamp" name...it means a pet form of Gilbert,{bright,pledge}
OK....>>> ,,,Holmes & Morlock are certainly "swamp" names...the others are debatable.

[marlowe]

I don't know if the following is true or not,but it was told to me by an old woman who was an astrologer....
In Germany a long time ago the big land owners kept the male & female serfs seperated until March...At this time they were allowed to mate which usually meant the children were born in December....because Sagitarians make the best soldiers....and Sagitarous is considered the most "normal" of all the signs....less mental illness..less depression...good tempered...etc.
OK..So is this the reason the Germans are so hard working ???
Generations of Sagitarians creating a national character?? I don't know,but I think it's possible.
**************************************************************
There is some evidence that the worst time to concieve is July...Airies are the most likely sign to be in drug rehab....

[meat suit]

Kissing doesnt mean swamp in german... not sure if its swampy down there either....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing,_Bavaria
oh look, below is a link to ****ing in Austria....

whats with the auto censoring??? MODs !!! ..... ;)

On page 276 of New Dictionary of American Family Names it says "Kissinger,Kissing {Ger}One who came from Kissing{swamp} in Germany.

Your link says nothing about what Kissing means..It only gives info about a municipality in Bavaria which in the distant past had a hill that was swept away by the flooding of the river Lech. Not exactly a high & dry place by the looks of it....Have you ever been to Bavaria?

Kissing is a place. there is no word 'Kissing' as such in german. I am from Germany.... the swamp rev. from your source is a mystery.....

[Alex Laker]

Oh dear... my surname bears reference to a place with water, although it doesn't go very far back in my family, so it's not in my genes so to speak :)

Not sure about this though... as you say yourself, many surnames are derived from the environments people live in, which would usually be near water for sustainance, Also there are unfortunately a significant number of murderers, so I think we're bound to see a noticeable overlap. If many people have surnames relating to their habitats, then so will an equal proportion of murderers, which will seem equally as many as in the general population when looking solely at murderers.

Lots of interesting info in here though :)

[Cilka]

Oh man! I really want to know the meaning of my last name. I know it has not served me well lately, as in 30 years, I am actually thinking of changing my last name, but it would be good to know what my chances are in becoming a criminal. I was thinking about it once, but the problem is that I am afraid of being caught, and I don't have friends in high places.

[Cilka]

Oh, I just found out what my last name means. It means 'FIDLER'. So, I am safe after all. I cannot kill you now, but I will play for you some nice music on a fiddle. :violin:

[marlowe]

Kissing doesnt mean swamp in german... not sure if its swampy down there either....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing,_Bavaria
oh look, below is a link to ****ing in Austria....

whats with the auto censoring??? MODs !!! ..... ;)

On page 276 of New Dictionary of American Family Names it says "Kissinger,Kissing {Ger}One who came from Kissing{swamp} in Germany.

Your link says nothing about what Kissing means..It only gives info about a municipality in Bavaria which in the distant past had a hill that was swept away by the flooding of the river Lech. Not exactly a high & dry place by the looks of it....Have you ever been to Bavaria?

Kissing is a place. there is no word 'Kissing' as such in german. I am from Germany.... the swamp rev. from your source is a mystery.....

Kissner/Kisner [German]:On who made cushions & pillows.
Kisseloff [Russian]..One who made & sold puddings.
Kiesiel [Polish] One who prepared gruel with leaven.

@ meat suit...Some place names are lost in the mist of time...Perhaps that is the case with Kissing in Bavaria....
The ground in swamps is wet & soft......puddings are wet & soft.......Pillows are soft..........Gruel is wet.......

The best kisses from my girlfriends were always wet & soft......

What do you think?

[marlowe]

When I first started looking into this last name business I noticed that many of the gunfighters of the old west had last names that originated in the West Riding
of Yorkshire,which was the site of many battles between the King's armies & the Scots....The losers of one of these great battles were deported to the American colonies....Jesse James' middle name is Woodson,which originated in the West Riding of Yorkshire.
From the book Jesse James' Secret by Ron Pastore >pages 258-260 is a list of members of the James/Younger gang over the years that the gang lasted.I willl list those members with "swamp" names beow.

Note:in the following list are cousins & brothers with the same last name so I will put a number next to those names.

Reed 2
Ford 2
Poole 2
Wymore
Blackmore
Latch
Burns
Hulsey
Coburn
Pitts
{it is estimated that the James Gang stole $1,202,800 over the carreer of the gang.}

[marlowe]

Slaughter:[English} Dweller at ,or near,a slough,or muddy place.also a butcher,one who killed animals...

Messer{English/German} one who made & sold knives.
Messersmith: a smith who made knives.
Metz/Metzer.{German} one who came from Metz[swamp]in Lorraine
Metzger/Metzler[German]One who sold or handled meat ,a butcher.

Mess:to make a mess
Mess around:to involve oneself for reprehensible reasons [to mess around with gamblers.
Mess up:to treat roughly/to beat up.

[marlowe]

If you google Curious Case of Criminal Last Names you will get over 10 hits because I have started threads on different forums over the last 20 months....I started the original thread about 2 & 1/2 years ago on the David Icke forum & it has now gone over 33 thousand views.....
I was hoping some writer would spot it and weave it into a murder mystery and give the idea a wider audience.....but it looks like the Sun will go ballistic in December ,2012 and fry everything on the surface of the planet...That's what the evidence is adding up to in my opinion......Oh well,,at least I got the idea out to some people...I had to be dragged kicking & screaming to the internet 3 years ago....and now I really enjoy the web......Don't know why it took me so long ....:o.

[Gajanana]

anders breivik? just curious...

[TargeT]

my last name was the German title of a reeve or advocate, an overlord (mostly of nobility) exerting guardianship or military protection as well as secular justice (Blutgericht) over a certain territory....

so a vocation, vocations are safe right? (haha)

[marlowe]

anders breivik? just curious...

Breivik is not listed......
Vik {Norweigen} One who lived by a bay;one who worked,or lived on a farm so named.
Brehm{German} a restless man,a gadfly.
Breier {english} Dweller in the briar bushes....<<< but it's English.
Breit[German} dweller in a wide or broad place.

I don't understand the part that says "so named"...but he definatly is from farmers ancestry IMO...
Does it mean the farm was near a bay?...Or was the farm called Vik????....I don't know the answer ..????

[marlowe]

Names in the Newspapers/For what it's worth

David Chaney is the first secret service agent to lose his job over the Columbian prostitution scandle :spy:granted he is not a murderer...
Chaney ,{as already noted in the first post} means One who came from Chaney[oak grove} in France.

Zimmerman: {German} a woodcutter or carpenter.

[marlowe]

The Grim Reaper

Grimm,Grim,Grime>>{notice it's similarity to Crime}
Descendent of Grim{mask}
Grimself: the fierce savage person.
Grimwood:{English} dweller in a wood haunted by a ghost.
Grimsell:a hill haunted by a ghost.

Grim is also an Anglo Saxon name for Wooden:the masked or hooded one.

[marlowe]

Frequencies of various aspects & house & sign positions in the horoscopes of murderers,serial killers,& mass murdererd as compared to control groups.[part 3]
http://astrologyresearchjournal.org/article101704/index.htm

The Zodiac Signs of Serial Killers
http://astrostar.com/Astrology-Serial-Killers.htm

Case study of murderers & their astrological connections.
http://astrologyresearchjournal.org/

[marlowe]

Morton {English} One who came from Morton {homestead by a marsh}.

Sean David Morton
http://www.ufowatchdog.com/sean_david_morton.htm

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/george_noory.htm

[marlowe]

Let's look at the other side of the coin....Good Names..:wizard:

{Bill}>>Ryan {Irish} Grandson of Rian {little king}
{Alex}>>Jones (Welsh}gracious gift of Jehovah
{David}>> Icke{Eng} descendent of Iko or Yeo,or of Hick ,a pet form of Richard{hard,rule}
Clapton {Eng} One who came from Clapton {homestead on a hill} the name of places in Berkshire & Cambridgeshire.
Hughes {English,Welsh} the son of Hugh {spirit ,mind}there are several names with this meaning spirit ,mind {Houskins,Hopkins,and others}

[Cilka]

Morton {English} One who came from Morton {homestead by a marsh}.

Sean David Morton
http://www.ufowatchdog.com/sean_david_morton.htm

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/george_noory.htm

Sean deserves a credit for being an intellectual, he is highly knowledgable, well spoken, likeable, if you ask him a question he will have an instant answer for you (a good trait for a psychopath), very successful etc. The first time I listened to him on Veritas show, I immediately disliked him and had no idea why. It was just a feeling. He even convinced Fabregas to like him.

[wynderer]

throwback :a reversion to an earlier ancestral type or character<atavism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
Take a look at the photo of Richard Speck....In my opinion he is a genetic throwback to his more primative Neanderthal ancestors....
Note:in the following post I will refer to Neanderthal/Cromagnon hybrids as Neanderthals...

Ages ago the Cromagnons drove the Neanderthals into the swamps,forests,& wastelands and took all the prime real estate for themselves....All people who wouldn't behave were exciled to the badlands as well, where they lived a dog eat dog existance..At times becoming preditors in order to survive.If you were an outlander you lived "Beyond the PALE."Towns were gated,,,locked up at night and watchman were hired to keep a lookout for thieves trying to climb the walls. ...the Neanderthals were given location names around 1000 AD .

********************Time Passes*************************
Around 1345 the Black Plague kills off 1/3 or the population of Europe.Farm labor is scarce & the Neanderthals step up in the world and become serfs.
*********************more time passes************************
When the Industrial Revolution starts up around 1790 some of the Neanderthals move to the cities where they have access to gin,beer,whiskey,prostitution,gambling & crime.Some of the Neanderthals return to their old preditory ways and become criminals,loan sharks,gamblers,and eventually bankers,lawyers,and politicians....And their last names have followed them .............................
.......................................................................:scared:

so the Neanderthals do the blue-collar crimes & the Cro-Magnons the white collar ones?

edit -- oops - i didn't read your last bit re bankers, lawyers, & politicians -- but so far all your examples have been blue-collar crimes , or at least crimes that don't bring in lots of $$$

[marlowe]

throwback :a reversion to an earlier ancestral type or character<atavism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
Take a look at the photo of Richard Speck....In my opinion he is a genetic throwback to his more primative Neanderthal ancestors....
Note:in the following post I will refer to Neanderthal/Cromagnon hybrids as Neanderthals...

Ages ago the Cromagnons drove the Neanderthals into the swamps,forests,& wastelands and took all the prime real estate for themselves....All people who wouldn't behave were exciled to the badlands as well, where they lived a dog eat dog existance..At times becoming preditors in order to survive.If you were an outlander you lived "Beyond the PALE."Towns were gated,,,locked up at night and watchman were hired to keep a lookout for thieves trying to climb the walls. ...the Neanderthals were given location names around 1000 AD .

********************Time Passes*************************
Around 1345 the Black Plague kills off 1/3 or the population of Europe.Farm labor is scarce & the Neanderthals step up in the world and become serfs.
*********************more time passes************************
When the Industrial Revolution starts up around 1790 some of the Neanderthals move to the cities where they have access to gin,beer,whiskey,prostitution,gambling & crime.Some of the Neanderthals return to their old preditory ways and become criminals,loan sharks,gamblers,and eventually bankers,lawyers,and politicians....And their last names have followed them .............................
.......................................................................:scared:

so the Neanderthals do the blue-collar crimes & the Cro-Magnons the white collar ones?

edit -- oops - i didn't read your last bit re bankers, lawyers, & politicians -- but so far all your examples have been blue-collar crimes , or at least crimes that don't bring in lots of $$$

@ wynderer....The extremely rich people & politicians in positions of power have their murders done for them..

A president who starts a war makes a ton of money for his military industrial complex friends.......& they pay the president back by paying him a lot of money to make speeches or tell him what stock to buy & when to sell it....

I could be wrong about the Neanderthals.....maybe it is just the sociopaths who were driven into the swamps & forests
by the law abiding Cromagnons....

Here is a thread that has a lot of gold & a lot of dross in it's 30 pages....it's called
The Neanderthal's Total War on Humanity { make of it what you will}:pound:
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=198293

Pay attention to the posts by Resistance & Delores & Cathar.....;)

Warning>> some my find this thread politically incorrect:eek:

[wynderer]

throwback :a reversion to an earlier ancestral type or character<atavism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
Take a look at the photo of Richard Speck....In my opinion he is a genetic throwback to his more primative Neanderthal ancestors....
Note:in the following post I will refer to Neanderthal/Cromagnon hybrids as Neanderthals...

Ages ago the Cromagnons drove the Neanderthals into the swamps,forests,& wastelands and took all the prime real estate for themselves....All people who wouldn't behave were exciled to the badlands as well, where they lived a dog eat dog existance..At times becoming preditors in order to survive.If you were an outlander you lived "Beyond the PALE."Towns were gated,,,locked up at night and watchman were hired to keep a lookout for thieves trying to climb the walls. ...the Neanderthals were given location names around 1000 AD .

********************Time Passes*************************
Around 1345 the Black Plague kills off 1/3 or the population of Europe.Farm labor is scarce & the Neanderthals step up in the world and become serfs.
*********************more time passes************************
When the Industrial Revolution starts up around 1790 some of the Neanderthals move to the cities where they have access to gin,beer,whiskey,prostitution,gambling & crime.Some of the Neanderthals return to their old preditory ways and become criminals,loan sharks,gamblers,and eventually bankers,lawyers,and politicians....And their last names have followed them .............................
.......................................................................:scared:

so the Neanderthals do the blue-collar crimes & the Cro-Magnons the white collar ones?

edit -- oops - i didn't read your last bit re bankers, lawyers, & politicians -- but so far all your examples have been blue-collar crimes , or at least crimes that don't bring in lots of $$$

@ wynderer....The extremely rich people & politicians in positions of power have their murders done for them..

A president who starts a war makes a ton of money for his military industrial complex friends.......& they pay the president back by paying him a lot of money to make speeches or tell him what stock to buy & when to sell it....

I could be wrong about the Neanderthals.....maybe it is just the sociopaths who were driven into the swamps & forests
by the law abiding Cromagnons....

Here is a thread that has a lot of gold & a lot of dross in it's 30 pages....it's called
The Neanderthal's Total War on Humanity { make of it what you will}:pound:
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=198293

Pay attention to the posts by Resistance & Delores & Cathar.....;)

Warning>> some my find this thread politically incorrect:eek:

i did check out the link, Marlowe -- very interesting theory -- you are certainly an original thinker

but to assess the accuracy of your theory -- suppose you took serial killers as the example/test case, & looked at pictures of all of them that you could find -- i'd be interested to see the proportion of the 2 different skull types

i think we are about to enter a time when Humans are going to become very different to what they are now, one way or the other -- the research you are doing could be a good historical/info source in the future

[David Trd1]

Palin:{Swedish}dweller near a swamp or marsh......{the term Beyond the Pale is related to Palin in meaning IMO.
.

Maybe a mute point but i was of the understanding that the saying referred to the Border surrounding a major viking settlement which is now Dublin,''Dyflin'' to the vikings or ''Duiblinn'' to the irish which literally means ''black pool'' in the native tongue hence the swamp/marsh link .
The border itself was called the Pale and to go beyond it was dangerous for the settlers and the many merchants and traders stopped at the port which was quite a significant one in that era.
While The root word is Swedish the application of it in the saying comes from its use in description of said area.

i apologize for the slightly off topic addition.

Peace

[marlowe]

Shills & Trolls...:eyebrows:

Schill,Shiller {German} dweller in a muddy place.

Trollope {English}..Dweller in,or near,the elf hollow.//:madgrin:,:the untidy,or slovenly person.

[marlowe]

Sinner,Sinn {German} One who came from Sinn {swamp} in Germany.

Page 472;;; New Dictionary of American Family Names

[marlowe]

James Holmes The Batman movie shooter in Colorado last night.

Holmes {english} dweller on a river island.....dweller on a piece of dry land ina fen.....dweller near a hollow tree.

[marlowe]

Mudgett {English} dweller in ,or near,the little swamp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_H_Holmes

[marlowe]

Wade Michael Page : the Wisconsin temple shooter.
Wade : dweller near a shallow river crossing or ford.....{ i suspect the name Wade is a family name passed down through the generations}

Richard Wade Farley
Farley: one who lived in a fern covered clearing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Farley

Richard Wade Cooey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cooey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wade

[marlowe]

Birnie{Scot}...Dweller on moist,oozy ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_Catherine_Birnie





BTW..The original thread is > http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=94579

it has almost gone over 40,000 views

[marlowe]

Coombes {English} One who came from Coombes {valleys} in Sussex.,; Dweller in a narrow valley.

FWIW...I very much want Mitchel Coombes NOT to be a hoaxer....I have no opinion either way....


This name relates to the word COMB...as in comb your hair..>>l.l.l.l.l.l.l.l.l.l.l:rolleyes:

[marlowe]

Thomas Alton Caffall was the Texas A&M shooter...

the meaning of Caffall is unknown,,,
Alton means :One who came from the old village at the source of the river...the name of several places in England.

**************************************************************

2 police officers were killed in Louisanna 2 days ago & 5 men were arrested but I am unable to find any new information ....it seems like the story has disappeared...
because i can't find the names of those arrested....at least for now.....

[marlowe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders

Ian Brady & Myra Hindley were the murderers.

Brady : dweller on a broad island.

Hindley: One who came from Hindley {woods frequented by hinds,female deer} in Lancashire.

[marlowe]

In 1978 I was looking through a book called New Dictionary of American Family Names by Elsdon C. Smith :{ it is availabe in most public libraries} I happened to glance at an open newspaper at a story about serial killers.I began looking up the last name meanings of murderers.I discovered that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of four types of location last names.
{1} Dweller or near in a swamp,moor,wasteland,marsh or muddy place.
{2} Dweller in a forest ,grove of trees,or clearing in a wood.
{3} Dweller in a deep valley or hollow.<<<NO LONGER VALID
{4} Dweller on barren or uncultivated land.
Examples:
Richard Speck>Speck:On who came from Speke {brushwood} in Lancashire.
Kissinger {German} One who came from Kissing{swamp} in Germany.
Cheney {French} One who came from Chaney{oak grove} in France.
Bush :Dweller on barren ground {brushy/land where bushes/weeds grow}

George Bush,Henrey Kissenger & Dick Cheney are considered "criminals guilty of war crimes".

I've come to the conclusion that #3> "Dweller in a deep valley "is no longer a part of this theory.....
It simply is not showing up in the data....

[marlowe]

Lanza.Lanzo {Italian} a mercenary German soldier,One who fought with a lance.

I think this is the Sandy Hook shooters's name....or close to it...a version..

[marlowe]

Eddie Routh killed American Sniper author Chris Kyle :

Routh {English} Dweller on rough,shaly ground.

[araucaria]

Fascinating thread, but please remember that Cain and Abel would have had the same surname if surnames had been invented...

[Dennis Leahy]

Marlowe,

I couldn't find "New Dictionary of American Family Names" online, so I'll ask you to look me up. And you damn better say I came from up on a hill! hahahahahahahah

Dennis

[araucaria]

Marlowe,

I couldn't find "New Dictionary of American Family Names" online, so I'll ask you to look me up. And you damn better say I came from up on a hill! hahahahahahahah

Dennis

Dennis, ever since Noah got stuck on a mountaintop, it's been downhill all the way :)

[Dennis Leahy]

Marlowe,

I couldn't find "New Dictionary of American Family Names" online, so I'll ask you to look me up. And you damn better say I came from up on a hill! hahahahahahahah

Dennis

Dennis, ever since Noah got stuck on a mountaintop, it's been downhill all the way :)And all my favorite places for landscape photography are down at the bottom: creeks, rivers, gorges, ravines, swamps, fens, bogs, lakes...and forests. :~)

Dennis

[araucaria]

Marlowe,

I couldn't find "New Dictionary of American Family Names" online, so I'll ask you to look me up. And you damn better say I came from up on a hill! hahahahahahahah

Dennis

Dennis, ever since Noah got stuck on a mountaintop, it's been downhill all the way :)And all my favorite places for landscape photography are down at the bottom: creeks, rivers, gorges, ravines, swamps, fens, bogs, lakes...and forests. :~)

Dennis

My advice: don't listen to these guys - maybe that's because I've got a' criminal last name' :)

[marlowe]

Marlowe,

I couldn't find "New Dictionary of American Family Names" online, so I'll ask you to look me up. And you damn better say I came from up on a hill! hahahahahahahah

Dennis

@ Dennis : you have a good name....see link..
http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/O'Leahy

it means the heroic one......the ancient names are usually some of the best...but sometimes their meanigs are lost in the mists of time....

[marlowe]

Fascinating thread, but please remember that Cain and Abel would have had the same surname if surnames had been invented...

@araucaria.....I have never claimed that everyone with a criminal last name is dodgy.......
but there is definetly something going on here.......
my best guess is that people with "swamp" last names are more easily open to possession by evil spirits.......
I've been looking into this idea for over 30 years......and I am no longer suprised when
the idea proves to be correct......
The best case is convicted murderers with the middle name "Wayne".....

[marlowe]

Israel Keyes :confessed serial killer

Keyes {Scot} dweller near a wharf or boat landing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Keyes

[marlowe]

Coleman Brackney,conficted killer,becomes police chief of Sulpher Springs Arkansas.

http://opnateye.com/?p=649

Brackney{german} dweller on fallow or uncultivated land.

http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=brackney



Please note >>Brackney has the same meaning as BUSH..as in POTUS #41 & #43:shocked:
for more information go to http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94570
**************************************************************
The original thread on the David Icke forum has gone over 50 thousand views ...& if you google Curoius Case of Criminal Last Names you will get 16 or more hits...If anyone reading this knows any writers..possibly mystery writers,please consider making them aware of this idea...I think it needs a wider audience...:ear:

[marlowe]

A popular loan-name among Roman men was Silvanus,which developed from the "Roman god of uncultivated land beyond the boundaries of tillage,",,,,A man with the name of Silvanus was depicted as "uncanny & dangerous"

Silvan {English} A descendant of Silvan or Silvanus {the woods}
Silva{Spainish/Portugese} One who came from Silva {thicket of briers:woods}

Bush,Brackney,Speck,etc....Are you getting the idea ?

Atavism:the reappearence in an individual of characteristics of some remote ancester that has been absent in the intervening years.

[marlowe]

Dylan Quick stabs 17 people at a college in Texas

Quick has several meanings..One being "one who lives in a wood."

http://www.surnamedb.com/surname/quick

[marlowe]

Moore {English} dweller in a bog,heath,moor or wasteland.

Carnell Moore was the shooter at Houston's Bush Internaional Airport.

[marlowe]

Brian Blackwell murdered his parents & was the first person to use his narcissistic personality disorder as an insanity defence in the UK.

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Blackwell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Blackwell

[marlowe]

Snowden : One who came from Snowden : a place in West Yorkshire named from Old English snaw 'snow'+dun "hill" i.e. a hill where snow lies long...

Technically Snowden is a "good" name..I have not made up my mind about Edward Snowden...

[marlowe]

Jesse Pomeroy lived from 1860 til 1932. As a 17 year old he murdered 2 younger children.He spent the rest of his life in prison.

The name Pomeroy has an interesting meaning. Read links if you are interested in more detail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomeroy_(surname))<<<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Pomeroy

By the way: Many murderers seem to be "throwbacks" to a distant ancester....

Many Old West gunfighter's last names originated in the West Riding in Yorkshire

where several battles for Scotish independence were fought.....
Many defeated Scotsman & their families were deported to America.

[marlowe]

The Birdman of Alcatraz Robert Stroud is considered one of the most notorious criminals in American history.

Stroud means "marshy land overgrown with brushwood". See link below

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Stroud

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdman_of_Alcatraz

[marlowe]

Gecht {German} The sudden, fierce, blustering ,violent person.

page 176 of New Dictionary of American Family Names

Robin Gecht was the leader of a murdering satanic cult in Chicago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripper_Crew

His son David Gecht was also a murderer.

[marlowe]

Robert Berdella ..>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Berdella

Berdell , Berdelle, Berdel One who came from Berdel {swampy low ground} in Germany.

[marlowe]

Lee : dweller in a clearing in a wood..../ Most names ending in LEY have this meaning.
example : Whatley : dweller in a clearing in a wood where wheat is grown in Somerset.
John Doyle Lee /// murdered about 120 people ...most controversial figure in Mormon history..

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.L/l/lee-john-doyle.htm

[marlowe]

Carr : Dweller at or near a marsh./ Grandson of Carra [spear].
The Wichita Horror : the Carr brother's murder spree.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/carr_brothers/9.html

[marlowe]

Newlywed couple Elyette and Miranda Barbour just wanted to experience what it was like to murder someone...
Barbour {English} Someone who practiced surgery ; ie >> a blood-letter.
also: a hairdresser.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread986881/pg1

[marlowe]

Carr : Dweller at or near a marsh./ Grandson of Carra [spear].
The Wichita Horror : the Carr brother's murder spree.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/carr_brothers/9.html

Carlyle {English} One who came from Carlisle [wall of the god Lugus] in Cumberland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Group

[marlowe]

Rep Michael Grimm threatens to break reporter in half and throw him off balcony.

Grimm {English} the fierce , savage person.// also a descendent of Grim [mask]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/28/michael-grimm-threat_n_4684695.html

[marlowe]

Hellwig [ German] Descendant of Halluig[ man,fight]
Dweller at,or near , a military road.
Descendant of Hiltiwic [fight,fight]
Descendant of Hailwich [holy,fight]

Jim Hellwig ,the Ultimate Warrior , dies at 54.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Warrior

http://www.wwe.com/inside/ultimate-warrior-passes-away-26223975

[marlowe]

Reid [ English ] One who came from Reed [ reedy or rough growth ] in Hertfordshire.....Page 420 of New Dictionary of American Family Names .

Corrupt Senator Harry Reid had a grim childhood from what I can gather from his Wikipedia biography . He is 83 years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Reid

****************************************************************

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94579

FWIW >> My original criminal last names thread has gone over 71 thousand views
since I started it in November of 2009....But for an unknown reason it is getting about 80 views per day instead of the usual 25....this started about a month ago.:ranger:

[ThePythonicCow]

FWIW >> My original criminal last names thread has gone over 71 thousand views
since I started it in November of 2009....But for an unknown reason it is getting about 80 views per day instead of the usual 25....this started about a month ago.:ranger:
Most of those extra hits are coming from a single guest IP at a budget webhosting service.

:spy:

[marlowe]

Elias Acevedo pleads guilty to 300 counts of rape ,kidnapping ,murder ,etc.

Acevedo : dweller in a place overgrown with holly bushes.

http://surnames.meaning-of-names.com/acevedo/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2531446/Former-neighbor--Ariel-Castro-pleads-guilty-300-counts-including-murder-kidnapping-raping-children.html

Castro>> http://surnames.meaning-of-names.com/castro/

[marlowe]

Soto : [ Spanish] One who came from Soto [ Wooded place on the bank of a river]
the name of many places in Spain...

Erno Soto >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chop-off

[marlowe]

http://zodiacsigns.com/serial-killer-zodiac-signs/

Cancer is the most likely sign to be a serial killer.

Scorpios & Aries are most likely to be hired hit men..

Gemini & Sagittarius are the most harmless ..they tend to be burglars...

Capricorns are the least likely to be caught .

Virgos and Aquarius tend to be computer hackers...

[Ahnung-quay]

I wonder if the typical feminine signs associated with these behaviors have to do with being born male in one of the feminine signs; pent up male energy with no where to go? Not saying that some of these people aren't female but, the majority are probably male. Also, Cancer, the serial killers may start out with early mother issues?

[marlowe]

I wonder if the typical feminine signs associated with these behaviors have to do with being born male in one of the feminine signs; pent up male energy with no where to go? Not saying that some of these people aren't female but, the majority are probably male. Also, Cancer, the serial killers may start out with early mother issues?
There isn't a lot of data on the web but what there is indicates that Cancer is the most likely sign to be gay or bi-sexual.....It's a mystery for sure...

[marlowe]

The Parker-Hulme Murder Case>>> Made into a movie by Peter Jackson called

Heavenly Creatures....Both of the 15 year old girl murderers had "swamp" last names...:madgrin:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1062114071&postcount=385

[marlowe]

Spurned woman [ Elizabeth Highley ] attacks man with knife .

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/denied-sex-woman-attacks-687543

Highley : One who came from Highley [ Hugga's grove ] in Shropshire.

[marlowe]

The Scream...............................
There is nothing more riveting than a scream of terror. It has the power to reach into out reptilian brain , trigger an adrenaline rush and a feeling of unshakable unease......

read more >> http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1062222030&postcount=440

PS: I'm taking a slight detour and going into sounds ..