Secrets of the Titanic ~ On the 100 Year Anniversary

[giovonni]

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/us/news/editorial/b/4e/b4e5ad9f00b5dfeeec2226d53e173569.jpeg

Titanic discoverer says ship’s wreckage site being destroyed by tourists; how he plans to save it...

The man who first discovered the Titanic wreckage says tourists visiting the site are destroying the remains of the ship's hull.

"They are loving the Titanic to death," oceanographer Robert Ballard said during an interview with Stephen Colbert.

Ballard is using the 100th anniversary of the ship's sinking to bring attention to what he says is the unnecessary destruction of the historic site...

Read more with short interview video - http://news.yahoo.com/titanic-discoverer-says-ship%E2%80%99s-wreckage-site-being-destroyed-by-tourists--how-he-plans-to-save-it.html

___________________________________

'Secrets of the Titanic'

The National Geographic Original Special:

Join Dr. Robert Ballard on the 20th century's most celebrated underwater discovery - the RMS Titanic

Please note ~ there is a special epilogue interview with Robert Ballard at the end.

running time 108:16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gjk1DnexKQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gjk1DnexKQ
.

[crosby]

thank you giovanni. as the final resting place for so many souls, i think it should be left to rest in total peace. i hope more efforts are afforded to preserve this sanctuary.
warmest, corson

[giovonni]

From BBC

14 April 2012

Titanic tragedy remembered in special events

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59662000/jpg/_59662180_titanicclock.jpg

The 100th anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic is being remembered at events across the world,
including in the ship's birthplace Belfast...
Read more - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17715345

[gripreaper]

you mean the RMS Olympic, right?

[giovonni]

you mean the RMS Olympic, right?

That's what some say...?

And note - this post thread was really only conceived to commemorate the one hundredth anniversary of this much herald and romanticized human story... Though whatever really happen back then and for whatever the reasons... It was not my intent to speculate upon and interpret here with my own personal opinion...

But perhaps if it allows other here - the opportunity to reexamine the (so called) facts of the official story into why this very tragic and strange maritime event occurred...?

Then so be it ! :rolleyes:

Why They Sank The Titanic


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McGfcdI8Qv0

[Operator]

you mean the RMS Olympic, right?

That's what some say...?

And note - this post thread was really only conceived to commemorate the one hundredth anniversary of this much herald and romanticized human story... Though whatever really happen back then and for whatever the reasons... It was not my intent to speculate upon and interpret here with my own personal opinion...

But perhaps if it allows other here - the opportunity to reexamine the (so called) facts of the official story into why this very tragic and strange maritime event occurred...?

Then so be it ! :rolleyes:

Well it would fit here ... the title of the thread promises "Secrets of the Titanic" ...

II-JVcaW0O0

This looks like a serious documentary to me ... mentioned facts should be checked.
But they sound plausible and not ridiculous at all given the world we live in.

[Cidersomerset]

Ship Lost Place .................... Year ................. Fatalities

Canadian ................MidAtlantic .......... 1863 ...... 45
Immigrant ship ..........Off Cape Race ..... 1864 . .. 158
Vicksburg .................Off Cape Race .... 1869 ..... . 65
Warrior ....................Grand Banks ...... 1878 ...... . 29
North Star ...............Cabot Straits ...... 1881 ....... 67
Medway ..................Off Newfondland . 1887 ....... 29
Valliant ...................Grand Banks ....... 1897 ....... 70
Snowbird ................Cape Race ......... 1898 ......... 6
Endymion ................Grand Banks ....... 1900 ........ 8
Islander ..................Off Alaska .......... 1901 ....... 67
Albatross ................Mid Atlantic .. . ... 1903 ....... 24


Titanic ..............Mid Atlantic.............. 1912 .... 1234 Wiki says( 1514)

The figure in the website seems low....


http://www.webtitanic.net/frameice.html

There have been loads of theories connected with Bankers & Ship owners
for the sinking of the Titanic , I was wondering how common it was for
ships to be sunk by Ice bergs in the period and the answer considering
all the shipping was very few....and only two in mid Atlanic before her...

One theory is that the Captain was so confident of not sinking he and
the crew were neglegent and were going to fast to try and break the
record for a Atlantic crossing....

Its like 9/11 and all the other scams in history something just does
not feel right ....

Rest in piece all the victims of the incompatence/arragance or criminality
of not having sufficiant life craft or survival stratagy if disaster struck..

[Cidersomerset]

Interresting post Operator, It would not surprise me and these scams have always gone
on and still do witness 9/11 .....

Bloody 'Ell I wish I did not start watching this.....Its well constructed and plausible and explains
a lot of the percieved incompetence of the captain and crew .....If they expected to be saved by
The California then it makes more sence !!!

EmVPS3l7llI

iDxcjVXGhcM

B0ybLmJURYU

Had enough for tonight time for bed ...........Insurance scam just like part of 9/11

==============================================================

PaxTr1e4lqk


These Frauds are deffinatly possible , Its common knowledge Buisnessmen are ruthless
in the cut throat world they manipulate.....Some might do anything ????

[KiwiElf]

History repeats itself...

The History Channel on SKY in NZ is currently running several different documentaries on the TITANIC. Interesting stuff. Particularly the theory of cold air mirages over the sea at the time, a real but rare weather event.

Like driving your car on a "strangely foggy", dark night and no street lights, only your parking lights on and mirages distorting your field of view (or driving very drunk/stoned etc) and using only your handbrake to stop. Your (distorted) perceptions of what is in front of you is still very "real". Even a speed of 15 mph is too fast. Your eyes and your senses are deceiving you. Likewise, the TITANIC was clearly exceeding it's safe ability to stop or veer away from an obstacle given the conditions.

Maybe it was just a tragic "accident" with flawed human egos being the cause or maybe there was more to it?

IF... we also consider the recent theory that TITANIC was deliberately sunk to get rid of over 600 Financiers and bankers aboard who were opposed to the Fed banking system, then a collision was guaranteed (without having to deliberately ram an iceburg). The strange weather conditions only adding to the risk. The financiers were of course, all men. Their demise was also then virtually guaranteed due to the lack of lifeboats. But Ismay, the ship's owner, got off with the women and children in what appeared to be a complete act of despicable cowardice. An unwitting pawn?

Hypothetically, all was needed was some "gentle persuasion" from Ismay to Captain Smith to "break a record" to complete the disaster, regardless of the intent. After all, she was unsinkable! Doesn't take much to change future events in a massive way, does it?

The events surrounding the recent sinking of the Concordia are similar (and synchronistic considering the timing) if one considers both Captains were just being "reckless". The outcomes however, were (thank god) quite different. We can choose to see this 100-year event as "lessons unlearned", Murphy's Law etc - whatever the reasons or circumstances. The "lessons" have been improved upon, but still not fully learned - a human flaw and/or deliberate intent?

Like other current events, many pieces and layers to this jigsaw puzzle.

(Psssst Giovonni - please fix spelling of "TITANIC" in your header hehe ;) Great post btw!

[Operator]

Summary of the documentary that I posted:

- the Olympic was an exact copy (twin ship) of the Titanic (only a few minor differences in some details)
- the Olympic was in use before the Titanic
- the Olympic got seriously damaged which economically 'crippled' her for life
- the Olympic could not be insured because of her condition
- a plan was designed to sink her under the name of Titanic (which could still be insured)
- Olympic and Titanic were swapped in a weekend while they were both in dock
- a ship like Olympic/Titanic could have easily avoid a collision within the warning time
- there was a mix up with ships in the area and the rescue backup failed to assist, the disaster
was bigger than planned ...

According the documentary the headline was to get the money back through insurance. Taking some particular
bankers down with it could be a convenient circumstance but was not the main reason.

The documentary backs up many claims they make ... they must be double checked but a solid lead to further
investigation I should say.

Just recently there was some interesting developments regarding the Titanic:



Titanic wreckage to be protected under UNESCO convention
5 April 2012 –
The wreckage of the passenger liner Titanic will now be protected by a United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO)
convention that seeks to safeguard wrecks, sites, decorated caves and other cultural relics underwater.

Article here ... un.org (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=41718&Cr=cultural+heritage&Cr1=)


So is seems they don't want too many nosy people down there. Suspicious ?

[ThePythonicCow]

(Psssst Giovonni - please fix spelling of "TITANIC" in your header hehe ;) Great post btw!
(psssst - fixed - only mods can edit thread titles - thanks for noticing.)

[KiwiElf]

(Psssst Giovonni - please fix spelling of "TITANIC" in your header hehe ;) Great post btw!
(psssst - fixed - only mods can edit thread titles - thanks for noticing.)

*psssst - thanks Paul! (My baddd - Sorry, I didn't know). Headlines are important or I wouldn't have worried ;)*

[Cidersomerset]

East Cowes
R.M.S. Olympic
Wednesday 20th September 1911

A collision occurred off Cowes between R.M.S. Olympic and the Royal Navy first class cruiser H.M.S. Hawke.

The Olympic left Southampton at 11.25 with 1313 passengers onboard and slowly made her way down Southampton Water it was only on the liners fifth crossing to New York since her maiden voyage on the 14th June.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwdO44y-akZH4zTW4V2cloc7Eo9U5m06bTv9LYNyOxBAj_rgic

Picture of RMS Olympic
http://www.titanicinquiry.org/images/ships/olympic.jpg

People were lining the front at Cowes to watch the great liner, which was capable of carrying some 3,000 passengers, and crew slowly come down Southampton Water then rounding Bramble Buoy [12.43 pm] to head eastwards down the Solent and the speed was increased to 16 knots. At the same time coming up the Solent from the Needles at speed, but some distance behind, was the cruiser HMS Hawke; the cruiser had been on sea trials and was returning to Portsmouth.
The event

The weather was squally and rain was falling as the Hawke quickly drew level on the starboard side of the Olympic near the Prince Consort Shoal Buoy, the two ships then sailed together for a short while; the time was almost 1.00 pm. The Hawke appeared to slow to allow the Olympic to move ahead then veered to the port in order to pass under the liners stern, the move resulted in the cruiser hitting the liner some 50 feet from her stern. The liner was holed and flooding occurred in two compartments, the cruiser suffered major damaged to its bow. From the shore people could see the two ships locked together with the Hawke’s bow embedded in the stern of the Olympic. For what seemed an eternity the two ships were locked together, bulkheads in both ships were closed and there was no threat of sinking, then the Hawke went astern and the extent of damage to both ships could be seen. There was a 15 ft gash tapering below the water at the stern of the Olympic, and the bow of Hawke was severally damaged.

The two Cowes tugs Irishman and Malta sailed out to render any assistance to the liner they could as she appeared to drift towards Osborne Bay, however the ship was able to turn and steam back into Cowes Roads under her own steam and anchor. The liner remained at anchor that night and was a spectacle with all her lights ablaze, the liners stern was down by several feet and the ships pumps were kept working to kept the water from rising.

News of the collision had been reported to the navel authorities at Portsmouth and the support vessels Volcano and Grappler both fitted with powerful pumps were dispatched to render assistant. The Hawke was surrounded with collision mats and must have taken on a lot of water in the forward compartments, but the bulkhead held. The cruiser was able to make slow progress up the Solent to Portsmouth Dockyard with both tugs in attendance.
After the event

Whilst the Olympic was anchored in Cowes Roads the captain issued orders that, no one was to leave or board the ship except officials of the White Star Line. However one enterprising American in a hurry to get back to America, lower a rope through one of the portholes and hailed a passing boatman, climbing down the rope he was taken ashore, and caught the steamer back to Southampton.

In the evening the Southampton and IW. passenger steamer Duchess of York came alongside and took off around 100 passengers off who were in a hurry to get to London. When the passengers finally returned to Southampton they all spoke highly of the events and organisation that occurred after the collision.

A passenger on the liner described how he was on deck and saw the collision unfold, the cruiser was running parallel to the liner on the starboard side, a little too close he thought, and appeared to be trying to pass astern of the Olympic but was to close to make the manoeuvre, and the bow of the cruiser plunged into the stern of the liner.
Return to Southampton

At 8.30 am the following morning Olympic weighed anchor and was towed back to Southampton by five tugs. Getting the liner back to Southampton took upwards of 3 hours as the ship was carrying almost 40 ft of water in her damaged compartments At the time of the collision there were 365 first class, 360 second class and 614 third class passengers onboard and the crew number approximately 870. The liner was due to call at Cherbourg and Queenstown and collect more passengers her final complement would have been almost 3000 people.

When Olympic docked in Southampton the full impact of the collision could be seen, there was a jagged triangular hole some 15ft by 10 ft just forward of the rudder, and the plating had been forced inward some 5 to 6 ft. It was reported that the more serious damage was below the waterline but no detail are quoted. Arrangements were made for passengers who wanted to continue their journey by transferring other liners and for other; a special train was laid on to take them to London.

Olympic was towed back to Harland and Wolfe in Belfast for repairs and in order to get the ship back into service e a quick as possible the twisted propeller shaft was replace by one from Titanic which was being built in the same yard.
HMS Hawke
Picture of HMS Hawke
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/HMS_Hawke.jpg/300px-HMS_Hawke.jpg

When HMS Hawke was examined in the dockyard the full extent of the damage could be seen; the bow completed smashed and forced round to starboard, a complete new front section would be needed before the ship could sail again. When reporters interviewed Hawke crewmembers they could give no reason why the ship suddenly changed course, and the said they were taken by surprise when the two ships collided, all they heard was the ship telegraph signal to the engine room to stop engines, followed “reverse engines”. They stated that the cause of the collision would have to be established by a court of inquiry at a future date.
The Inquiry
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QrxfXYWoGug/TV9Vr8xhqlI/AAAAAAAAAWE/vUXkdESK9A8/s1600/HMS%2BHawke.jpg
The inquiry later found that the Olympic was going too fast [16 Knots] for the conditions and her wash sucked the smaller ship in, causing the collision.
Picture of collision damage
Collision Damage

http://woottonbridgeiow.org.uk/eastcowes/collision.jpg

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/5/0/9/1/4/7/tit1-69185793985.jpeg

RMS. Olympics Statistics
Owner:- White Star Line’
Builder:- Harland and Wolff, Belfast
Class:- Olympic class ocean liners
Launched:- 20th October 1910
Completed:- 31st May 1911
Maiden voyage:- 14th June 1911
Tonnage:- 45,324 tons
Displacement:- 52,067 tons
Installed power:- 24 double-ended [6 furnace] and 5 single ended [3 furnace] Scotch boilers. Two four-cylinder triple expansion reciprocating engines, each producing 15,000 hp for two outboard wing propellers at 75 revolutions per minute. One low pressure turbine producing 16,000 hp. A total of 59,000 hp could be produced at maximum revolutions.
This new design layout was more efficient consuming only 650 tons/hr against the previous 1000 tons/hr.
Propulsion:- Two bronze triple blade wing propellers and one bronze quadruple blade centre propeller.
Speed [normal]:- 21 Knots [24 mph]. Note did achieve over 22 knots on a voyage from New York to Southampton.
Service history:- Saw service in the First World War, including ramming and sinking U-boat No. U-103.
The end:- With the merger of White Star and Cunard in 1934 there was now surplus of ships and with Olympics becoming expensive to run a decision was taken to withdraw the ship from service. In 1935 the ship was sold for £100,000 and taken to Jarrow for scraping, what remained of the ship was finally taken to Inverkeithing, Scotland in 1937, to be broken up, the end of a great ship.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRG_emmgseDNFUmKGSRDaKA-t193uYVjI8v3dCHMNhjhyDuDOMl8Q

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5EkeIDYKITYzsX59yJrmtlzacZtzj-TbxMCfzXoLuPgUkdNSqRg

HMS. Hawke Statistics
Built:- Chatham Dockyards 1891
Type:- First-class, tw in-screw protected cruiser
Weight:- 7,350 tons
Size:- Length 360 ft, Width 60 ft, Draught 24 ft.
Speed:- 20 Knots.
Range:- 10,000 miles.
Crew:- 544.
Cost:- £400,702.
Sunk:- 15th October 1914. By a German submarine.

Editors note:- It is reported that the clock from the grand staircase in the Olympic is in the Southampton Maritime Museum.

Titanic and Olympic side by side Befast Docks..

http://www.insuranceblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/titanic2.jpg

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The Olympic keel plate number was 400, Titanic's 401. I'm sure that the Olympic conspiracy theory was disproved some time ago when the number 401 was finally found on the keel plate of the wreck, finally putting that theory to bed. It was definitely Titanic that sank.

[Cidersomerset]

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/wx4f7d8cb8.png

Real photo or fake ???

Reported name plate on the wreck of the 'Titanic' after the rivots on the Iron lettering
had eroded leaving a M & P visible from the original..Olympic ....8 mins into pt.5 below
they explain some of the annomalies on the wreck ....

B0ybLmJURYU


Five days after the sinking Lloyds paid out $12,500 000 insurance money to white star line..

So motive for a fraud like this is perfectly feasible in the minds of the filthy rich and powerfull !!

[giovonni]

It is with my utmost appreciation, that i extent my heartfelt thanks to all my fellow members who have contributed here. Who have respectively demonstrated consciously and unselfishly (in unison) as in how this forum can really vibrate and function in attempting to find all the possible variables into seeking and finding the so called secrets of the Titanic.

And i am now beginning to wonder... http://factoryjoe.s3.amazonaws.com/emoticons/emoticon-0136-giggle.gif in that perhaps we all unconsciously acted together in creating this thread...http://factoryjoe.s3.amazonaws.com/emoticons/emoticon-0112-wondering.gif

[giovonni]

Here's some more entertainment for ya :popcorn:

From The Smithsonian channel

Video Descriptive:


Published on Mar 26, 2012 by smithsonianchannel

Navigate the tricky waters of reality and fiction in the Oscar-winning blockbuster "Titanic."


note click through to youtube to see the film:
(running time 53:39)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmhGx18jvv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmhGx18jvv4

[observer]

Here's another one to add to the list of conspiracies, giovonni.

In the five part documentary, "Why They Sank the Titanic", posted by Operator in comment #6, and reposted several times throughout this thread by other members, it clearly states that J.P. Morgan was suppose to be a passenger on the voyage. It even reveals that Morgan had some valuable statues removed from the hold the day before departure.

There was an even greater reason to sink this ship beyond insurance fraud. Some of the passengers who went-down were vehemently opposed to the Federal Reserve System, a very special project for J.P. Morgan.

By killing-off Benjamin Guggenhim, Isa Strauss, and Jacob Astor, the fate of the newly proposed Federal Reserve System was sealed. This Federal Reserve Act was the pivotal point that triggered the impending current down-fall of the United States:
http://conspiracytheories.lcc.gatech.edu/index.php/Titanic_Sinking_Conspiracy


It just goes to show how all this information has taken one hundred years to surface.

I wonder what new revelations we will learn about the Kennedy affair fifty years from now?

[giovonni]

Here's another one to add to the list of conspiracies, giovonni.

In the five part documentary, "Why They Sank the Titanic", posted by Operator in comment #6, and reposted several times throughout this thread by other members, it clearly states that J.P. Morgan was suppose to be a passenger on the voyage. It even reveals that Morgan had some valuable statues removed from the hold the day before departure.

There was an even greater reason to sink this ship beyond insurance fraud. Some of the passengers who went-down were vehemently opposed to the Federal Reserve System, a very special project for J.P. Morgan.

By killing-off Benjamin Guggenhim, Isa Strauss, and Jacob Astor, the fate of the newly proposed Federal Reserve System was sealed. This Federal Reserve Act was the pivotal point that triggered the impending current down-fall of the United States:
http://conspiracytheories.lcc.gatech.edu/index.php/Titanic_Sinking_Conspiracy


It just goes to show how all this information has taken one hundred years to surface.

I wonder what new revelations we will learn about the Kennedy affair fifty years from now?

:first:

i thinketh you hit the nail right through that grisly old nose of the infamous banking pirate ! :heh:

Here's a tidbit about that nasty old fart ~ http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbsuTliDh9alAjTWKAr0ijplL1qiyRC4_g6PljbVj_fA2bOMwA


"The photograph that's become the defining image of 19th-century financial titan JP Morgan makes him look almost a caricature of a hard-hearted robber-baron. As Smithsonian magazine explains, part of the reason is simple: After the young photographer shot a photo of Morgan in his usual pose, he had the nerve to ask the busy man to shift position for another. Morgan complied, but became clearly aggravated.

“His expression had sharpened and his body posture became tense,” recalled Edward Steichen in his autobiography. “I saw that a dynamic self-assertion had taken place.” Steichen quickly took the photo, and Morgan hated the result—he tore up the proof then tried unsuccessfully to buy the print. Steichen always denied touching up the image to accentuate the negative (including an optical illusion that makes Morgan look like he's holding a dagger in his left hand). His backers say it's simply an example of what every good photographer strives to do: reveal character."
source: http://www.newser.com/story/108568/why-jp-morgan-looks-so-mean.html
as the saying goes ~ the camera never lies :lie:
http://img2-cdn.newser.com/image/787871-6-20101229203617.jpeg

[KiwiElf]

Thanks for adding these "J.P. Morgan" comments (which I should have included in my earlier Post).

Although I stated (Bruce) Ismay was the "owner," he actually represented the White Star Line.
Who owned White Star? J.P. Morgan - who purportedly INVITED the banker/financiers aboard as guests with the deliberate intent of sinking the TITANIC, as above.

[giovonni]

Thanks for adding these "J.P. Morgan" comments (which I should have included in my earlier Post).

Although I stated (Bruce) Ismay was the "owner," he actually represented the White Star Line.
Who owned White Star? J.P. Morgan - who purportedly INVITED the banker/financiers aboard as guests with the deliberate intent of sinking the TITANIC, as above.

Most noted and and thank you ~ my Kiwi Friend... :yo:

i also like this intriguing component added into the conspiracy...

:gossip: as another saying goes ~ "All roads lead back to Rome" and into the Vatican

http://www.federaljack.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/TITANIC-05.jpg

Note some of this info has already been posted

THE SINKING OF THE TITANIC
http://www.pacinst.com/terrorists/chapter5/titanic.html

note original source link: http://www.pacinst.com/terrorists/preamble.html

[giovonni]

More Titanic news...

***********

Titanic: Possible Human Remains Found In Shipwreck

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/569289/thumbs/r-TITANIC-HUMAN-REMAINS-large570.jpg

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTUa9eEiy-pvm6IVtNh5cn2_4y26e_gPPS1xVlYoPyda9no7oh http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRkQBm003ScvrtBwGrmzinuuC4CpJbmlgvyaODic1Tx4aCAWMkjg

NEW YORK -- Human remains may be embedded in the mud of the North Atlantic where the New York-bound Titanic came to rest when it sank 100 years ago, a federal official said Saturday. A 2004 photograph, released to the public for the first time this week in an uncropped version to coincide with the disaster's centenary, shows a coat and boots in the mud at the legendary shipwreck site...
read more - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/15/titanic-human-remains_n_1426660.html

Also from London ~ Mail Online News

Haunting pictures of boots and a coat at Titanic wreck site illustrate the human cost of the tragedy 100 years after ship sank..
Read more - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130042/Titanic-100th-anniversary-Shoes-coat-wreck-site-implies-likely-resting-place-human-remains.html#ixzz1sGl8fT2M

[observer]

[....snip]
note original source link: http://www.pacinst.com/terrorists/preamble.html

Thank you giovonni for posting this very relevant link.


Quoting from the text in chapter 5:
"Many interesting points about the Titanic are discussed in a videotape made by National Geographic in 1986. The videotape is entitled The Secrets of the Titanic. When the Titanic departed from Southern England on April 10, 1912, Francis Browne, the Jesuit master of Edward Smith, boarded the Titanic. This man was the most powerful Jesuit in all of Ireland and answered directly to the general of the Jesuit Order in Rome. The videotape declares:

A vacationing priest, Father Francis Browne, caught these poignant snapshots of his fellow passengers, most of them on a voyage to eternity. The next day Titanic made her last stop off the coast of Queenstown, Ireland. Here tenders brought out the last passengers; mostly Irish immigrants headed for new homes in America. And here, the lucky Father Browne disembarked.... Father Browne caught Captain Smith peering down from Titanic’s bridge, poised on the brink of destiny. — The Secrets of the Titanic, National Geographic, video tape, 1986.

Here is Jesuit treachery at its finest. The Provincial [Father Francis Browne] boards Titanic, photographs the victims, most assuredly briefs the Captain concerning his oath as a Jesuit, and the following morning bids him farewell. — Eric J. Phelps, Vatican Assassins, Halycon Unified Services, p. 427."

This is a point that I cannot stress enough. Ever present in the shadows of global manipulation lurks the Vatican.

The Roman Empire never died. It lives-on through the Holy Roman Empire. With every pivotal moment in Current Era history, one can find the fingerprint of the Vatican.

[giovonni]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

as the saying goes... you live and you learn ...sometimes ?


***********

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/header_title.gif

Sunday, April 15, 2012

EDITORIAL
The Titanic and the nuclear fiasco

On the night of April 15, 1912, 100 years ago today, the allegedly unsinkable luxury liner RMS Titanic sank in the North Atlantic after hitting an iceberg. Of the ship's 2,200 passengers, 1,500 lost their lives. Since then the Titanic has become an object lesson, an obsession and the subject of countless books and films.

The theories about why the largest and most expensive ship of its time failed in its promise and dropped to the ocean floor are plentiful and diverse. Investigators, researchers and conspiracy theorists have variously blamed the ship's design, the laxness of the crew, the inferior quality of the ship's rivets and hull steel, the poor design of the watertight compartments, record high tides, ocean mirages and of course, the infamous iceberg. Clearly, though, it was no one single cause, but a "perfect storm" of factors. The disaster would have been mitigated, though, by less arrogance and more precaution.

Presenting technology as completely safe, trustworthy or miraculous may seem to be a thing of the past, but the parallels between the Titanic and Japan's nuclear power industry could not be clearer. Japan's nuclear power plants were, like the Titanic, advertised as marvels of modern science that were completely safe. Certain technologies, whether they promise to float a luxury liner or provide clean energy, can never be made entirely safe.

In both cases, contingencies plans failed: the Titanic carried too few lifeboats; Tokyo Electric Power Co. failed to develop evacuation and backup plans for its Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant. The design, construction, materials and safety checks were all compromised. The main difference is that the catastrophic effects of the Fukushima fiasco are more far-reaching and long lasting. The plant's name has already become synonymous with disaster.

Not long after the Titanic sank, the company that built the ship retrofit its other two sister ships with stronger hulls. Was the company admitting a flaw or just being careful? Or were they being, at last, wise? Given what's at stake, the government, Tepco and the rest of Japan's power companies must act prudently and retrofit the nation's other nuclear power plants with stronger safeguards in the short term and, in the long term, concede that other forms of energy are demonstrably safer.

In an article not long after the Titanic sank, writer Joseph Conrad commented on the tragedy by noting the "chastening influence it should have on the self-confidence of mankind." That lesson should be applied to all "unsinkable" undertakings that might profit a few by imperiling the majority of others.

Source link: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/ed20120415a1.html

[observer]

It's so very hard to swallow the pabulum of the major media when it comes to any of these events, giovonni.

The Maine, The Titanic, Pearl Harbor, The Gulf of Tonkin, The World Trade Towers, Fukushima, just to mention a few.... all airing the stench of obscene financial gain - regardless the cost in human suffering.

When one is aware of the mechanism (global banking by many other names as well) whose fingerprints appear on each of those events mentioned, it becomes so very hard to read the watered-down major media versions.

Therefore, I'll withhold my thanks for your comment #24.

But, thanks for giving me the opportunity to make this reflection on what you posted there.

[KiwiElf]

If memory serves, this is the second attempt at building a TITANIC II

Australian billionaire to build Titanic II
AFP Updated April 30, 2012, 6:38 pm

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/13554412/australian-billionaire-to-build-titanic-ii/


One of Australia s richest men, Clive Palmer, on Monday unveiled plans to build a 21st century version of the doomed Titanic in China, with its first voyage from England to New York set for 2016.

SYDNEY (AFP) - One of Australia's richest men, Clive Palmer, on Monday unveiled plans to build a 21st century version of the doomed Titanic in China, with its first voyage from England to New York set for 2016.

Palmer, a self-made mining billionaire, said he had commissioned state-owned Chinese company CSC Jinling Shipyard to construct Titanic II with the same dimensions as its predecessor.

"It will be every bit as luxurious as the original Titanic but of course it will have state-of-the-art 21st century technology and the latest navigation and safety systems," Palmer said in a statement.

"Titanic II will sail in the northern hemisphere and her maiden voyage from England to North America is scheduled for late 2016."

He added that he had invited the Chinese navy to escort the Titanic II to New York.

The announcement comes just weeks after the 100th anniversary of the sinking of Titanic, which went down on April 15, 1912 after striking an iceberg on its first voyage, from Southampton to New York.

Palmer said the new ship would be a tribute to the spirit of the men and women who worked on the original, which sank with the loss of 1,514 passengers and crew.

"These people produced work that is still marvelled at more than 100 years later and we want that spirit to go on for another 100 years," he said.

Titanic was commissioned by White Star Line and was the largest liner in the world at the time.

Palmer said he has established his own shipping company, Blue Star Line, with the new vessel having the same specifications as its predecessor -- 270 metres long (885 feet), 53 metres high and weighing some 40,000 tonnes.

It will have 840 rooms and nine decks with design work in conjunction with an historical research team underway. No figure was given on how much it would cost.

The only changes to the original would be below the water line including welding and not riveting, a bulbous bow for greater fuel efficiency, diesel generation and enlarged rudder and bow thrusters for increased manoeuvrability.

"Titanic II will be the ultimate in comfort and luxury with on-board gymnasiums and swimming pools, libraries, high class restaurants and luxury cabins," Palmer said.

The ship would also include an exhibition room which will be located in the space of the original's coal boilers which will showcase his home state of Queensland.

Palmer is estimated to be Australia's fifth richest person, worth more than Aus$5 billion (US$5.2 billion), thanks to his vast coal and other mining assets in Queensland and Western Australia.

He has also branched out into tourism and owns the luxury Coolum resort on the Sunshine Coast, while recently saying he wants to move into the media industry, a sector dominated by Fairfax and Rupert Murdoch's News Limited.

His decision to commission a Chinese shipbuilding yard, which will also construct other luxury liners for the tycoon, reinforces his ties to the country, which is a key buyer of his coal and iron ore.

"The Chinese are renowned for building commercial cargo and container ships," he said.

"China currently produces around two to three percent of the world's luxury ships but is looking to challenge the Europeans who have around 75 percent of this market.

"The Chinese ship building industry with our assistance wants to be a major player in this market."
The original Titanic was built in Belfast.

[giovonni]

The Titanic Conspiracy - The Great Deception [John Hamer]

i felt this lecture was suitable in reviving this thread for those interested ...

for your inspection ...

Published on Dec 8, 2012

"A compelling presentation by John Hamer, author of the recently published book 'The Falsification of History', to New Horizons in St. Annes, Lancashire, England.

In October 1910, a group of seven men, all senior players in the Rothschild and Rockefeller financial dynasties, met in strict secrecy on a private island off the coast of Georgia, USA. Their brief was to create an organisation to usurp the power to create and print money, until then solely a function of the US government. This organisation was to be named 'The Federal Reserve Bank'. This plan however, had several extremely powerful, high-profile opponents who stood in the way of these banker's goals.

In the meantime, John Pierpoint (JP) Morgan, another American high-financier, involved in the Federal Reserve scheme, who also happened to own the British-based White Star shipping line, had commissioned a series of 'super-liners', the Olympic class, in an attempt to gain the lion's share of the highly lucrative Atlantic-crossing market. The speculative investment involved in this project was immense.

However, in September 1911, before the second one of the planned three 'sisters', RMS Titanic had been completed, Morgan's plans were dealt a massive financial blow when RMS Olympic, the first of the 'sister' ships off the production line was involved in a disastrous collision with a Royal Navy cruiser, HMS Hawke.

And so, the scene was set for one of the greatest deceptions ever perpetrated... in the100th anniversary year, John presents information and evidence that seriously questions the official account in the history books."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOca_wTZ5BQ

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this thread with some impressive new research:


https://zerohedge.com/technology/first-ever-digital-scan-titanic-reveals-never-seen-views

First-Ever Digital Scan Of Titanic Reveals Never Before-Seen Views

For the first time, a full-sized digital scan of the Titanic has been made public, which could reveal new secrets about the ship that lies 12,500 feet down in the Atlantic.

https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/2023-05-17_12-59-22.png?itok=WZ9UtMq9
Titanic's front section

BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-65602182) said the scan was conducted about a year ago by Magellan Ltd, a deep-sea mapping company, and Atlantic Productions, who are making a documentary about the Titanic.

https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/2023-05-17_12-57-13.png?itok=sBLxzI26
Titanic's stern

Magellan's Gerhard Seiffert, who heads the expedition, said the underwater scanning project was the largest and most complex he had ever undertaken.
"The depth of it, almost 4,000m, represents a challenge, and you have currents at the site, too - and we're not allowed to touch anything so as not to damage the wreck," he explained.
"And the other challenge is that you have to map every square centimetre - even uninteresting parts, like on the debris field you have to map mud, but you need this to fill in between all these interesting objects."
Parks Stephenson, a Titanic analyst, was "blown away" by the new scans.
"It allows you to see the wreck as you can never see it from a submersible, and you can see the wreck in its entirety, you can see it in context and perspective. And what it's showing you now is the true state of the wreck," he said.
Stephenson said the new scans might reveal new secrets behind the maritime disaster 111 years ago.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Of considerable interest (to some) is the clear image of Titanic's serial number on the prop.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=50913&d=1684412936
401

Titanic's serial number - 401
Olympic's serial number - 400

The conspiracy theory that it was the Olympic that sank not the Titanic (for insurance purposes) was eliminated when Titanic's original serial number was discovered stamped on the wreck's keel. Now here it is on the prop, too. That should now seal it.

For any interested in Titanic and the conspiracy surrounding the sinking, there's a deep-dive thread on it here-

The "Titanic Conspiracy" – A Complete Analysis (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100604-The-Titanic-Conspiracy----A-Complete-Analysis&highlight=titanic)

[sunwings]

700,000 photos were taken to create this 3D scan. This excellent news report shows some great footage of the Titanic.

R2XtefrMNhg

[PlasmaVortex]

is it true that Rothschilds' main rivals for the creation of debt slavery were killed on the boat?

[Satori]

Of considerable interest (to some) is the clear image of Titanic's serial number on the prop.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=50913&d=1684412936
401

Titanic's serial number - 401
Olympic's serial number - 400

The conspiracy theory that it was the Olympic that sank not the Titanic (for insurance purposes) was eliminated when Titanic's original serial number was discovered stamped on the wreck's keel. Now here it is on the prop, too. That should now seal it.

For any interested in Titanic and the conspiracy surrounding the sinking, there's a deep-dive thread on it here-

The "Titanic Conspiracy" – A Complete Analysis (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100604-The-Titanic-Conspiracy----A-Complete-Analysis&highlight=titanic)

I don’t know if these two sister ships were switched or not, but question: Wouldn’t it have been a simple enough process to take the prop or props from the Titanic and put them on the Olympic? And vice versa.

If the ships were switched, and if “they” were serious about avoiding detection, it strikes me that, some how and in some way, exchanging serial numbers would be something one would do.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I don’t know if these two sister ships were switched or not, but question: Wouldn’t it have been a simple enough process to take the prop or props from the Titanic and put them on the Olympic? And vice versa.

Definitely not. First reason being, the starboard and port propellers of Titanic lay at a different pitch to Olympic. And secondly, Titanic's central propeller had a wider bore. The prop assemblies were not interchangeable.


If the ships were switched, and if “they” were serious about avoiding detection, it strikes me that, some how and in some way, exchanging serial numbers would be something one would do.

It couldn't be done on the props as outlined. Several other parts of the wreck have been photographed with Titanic's serial number stamped onto them - and items recovered from the debris field. One was a gear shaft, from inside one of the watertight doors. We aren't talking linen here or items of crockery, but internal mechanisms. It would've been entirely impractical to remove and refit such items (no one would ever see them), much too time-consuming, and very expensive. The entire basis of the conspiracy was that White Star did it to cut corners and save money. A switch flies in the face of both.

Everything's laid in the this thread (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100604-The-Titanic-Conspiracy----A-Complete-Analysis&highlight=titanic), every detail about the Titanic conspiracy. It think I showed with this research that the swap theory was impossible, and that Titanic was deliberately sunk.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

is it true that Rothschilds' main rivals for the creation of debt slavery were killed on the boat?

No.

First reason being, the so-called rivals, namely John Jacob Astor, Isidor Straus, and Benjamin Guggenheim, weren't murdered. They died. On a sinking ship. They had every opportunity to save themselves by stepping into a lifeboat. That is well documented. In each case they gave up their seats. They could easily have saved themselves, but didn't. They chose to sacrifice themselves for the good of others.

Second is, proposals for the Federal Reserve did not coming into being until late 1913, nearly eighteen months after Astor, Strauss, Guggenheim were dead.

Third reason, for the conspiracy to be true, all three said rivals would have to have been coerced or persuaded to book passage on the fateful voyage. But none of the men were invited on board.

Astor was a late booking. He'd been travelling in Europe. His wife was pregnant at the time (depicted in Cameron's movie) and he was bringing her back home to America for medical reasons.
Guggenheim only booked passage on Titanic because the Lusitania, which he'd booked originally, was temporarily out of service and undergoing repairs. Cunard had transferred all Lusitania passengers to the smaller Carmania, but Guggenheim elected to travel on Titanic because it was faster and much more luxurious.
Strauss was simply travelling home after spending the winter in Cape Martin, France. Archibald Gracie later testified that Strauss refused a berth in a lifeboat (his right as a first class passenger). He was a gentlemen, and like Astor gave up his seat so that others could live. Ida, his wife, then got out of the lifeboat herself, to stay behind with her husband. Both went down with the ship.


Third reason. For JP Morgan to have 'arranged the sinking', he'd have to know long in advance that stray pack ice would float as far south as the Grand Banks (very very rare for April), and then intersect the shipping lanes to be at the right place at the right time, to lie directly, perfectly, in Titanic's path for it to strike.

Fourth reason. There are no records to imply that Astor, Strauss, Guggenheim opposed the Federal Reserve. None. The only prominent person to oppose its formation was Charles Lindbergh. And he was not 'got rid of' (lived safe and happy until 1924).

And there are others, like a whole host of lies, misconceptions and skewed facts that when scrutinized thoroughly dissembles this so-called conspiracy. It the end it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[PlasmaVortex]

Impressive reply, thankyou.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Miles Mathis offers up a totally different take, in his usual way, suspecting the whole thing as being another staged event, with some of the big guys staging their own deaths.
http://mileswmathis.com/titan.pdf

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Miles Mathis offers up a totally different take, in his usual way, suspecting the whole thing as being another staged event, with some of the big guys staging their own deaths.
http://mileswmathis.com/titan.pdf

Different take as in alternate reality! His claims are absurd. And I say that in the gentlest way. Conspiracies exist, and all over the place. But there's such a thing as a fake conspiracy. There are plenty of those muddying the waters. See here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?160-Known-Hoaxes-and-Other-Bad-Information).

His data is bad. Very bad. Just for starters he says


For instance, we are told that Lloyd's of London insured the Titanic, and had to pay out around 10million dollars just for the lost ship. That is according to the Denver Post, 1912. But that same article states Lloyd's only had $15 million on deposit, so they just lost 2/3rd of their value. They should have been devastated, but apparently weren't, so something doesn't add up here

Of course it doesn't add up, because it's wrong.

The article he cites, from the Denver Post, was published just one day after the disaster. Complex stories take a long time to unravel, in the case of Titanic it took months of investigation, legal wranglings, and two inquests (one in the US, one in the UK) to sort everything out. The financial reality was that Titanic's worth was placed at a total of $8million (the ship, aggregated property loss, and cargo) but it was only insured for $5million. This was a huge financial loss -- for White Star! (and he says it was sunk deliberately!). No, White Star lost out big time. It's why they went under. It ruined them!

He also claims Astor survived and went into hiding. But they recovered his body! It was positively identified, photographed, autopsied, and returned to New York by train for burial. His personal effects, including initialed gold watch was delivered to his son, and he wore it for the rest of his life.

His narrative here is carried by pure invention, while omitting documented facts that inconveniently contradict him. This is a researcher? Maybe he wants it to be true because it upholds his pet theory that the evil cabal were responsible. They weren't. The Titanic disaster was, broadly speaking, a tragic but avoidable accident. Some people are unable to accept that accidents can actually happen without any skulduggery involved.

The Titanic conspiracy is provably fake. Which makes it unique. It serves as a barometer of someone's credentials. If you find a conspiracy researcher endorsing it, then you know that this is their standard of research (awful) - or worse, it tells you they are MORE interested in clicks than they are in TRUTH.

[Bill Ryan]

A very interesting new article. I'll just copy the two photos below, but there's much else to read. The accelerating decay is caused by the seemingly dripping 'rusticles' which can be seen everywhere.


https://explorersweb.com/new-photos-show-major-decay-on-titanic-wreck

New Photos Show Major Decay on Titanic Wreck

The ship’s bow railing, intact until recently, top, has now largely fallen away.

https://explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/titanic2.jpg

https://explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/titanic1.jpg

[mountain_jim]

Miles Mathis offers up a totally different take, in his usual way, suspecting the whole thing as being another staged event, with some of the big guys staging their own deaths.
http://mileswmathis.com/titan.pdf

Different take as in alternate reality! His claims are absurd. And I say that in the gentlest way. Conspiracies exist, and all over the place. But there's such a thing as a fake conspiracy. There are plenty of those muddying the waters. See here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?160-Known-Hoaxes-and-Other-Bad-Information).

His data is bad. Very bad. Just for starters he says


For instance, we are told that Lloyd's of London insured the Titanic, and had to pay out around 10million dollars just for the lost ship. That is according to the Denver Post, 1912. But that same article states Lloyd's only had $15 million on deposit, so they just lost 2/3rd of their value. They should have been devastated, but apparently weren't, so something doesn't add up here

Of course it doesn't add up, because it's wrong.

The article he cites, from the Denver Post, was published just one day after the disaster. Complex stories take a long time to unravel, in the case of Titanic it took months of investigation, legal wranglings, and two inquests (one in the US, one in the UK) to sort everything out. The financial reality was that Titanic's worth was placed at a total of $8million (the ship, aggregated property loss, and cargo) but it was only insured for $5million. This was a huge financial loss -- for White Star! (and he says it was sunk deliberately!). No, White Star lost out big time. It's why they went under. It ruined them!

He also claims Astor survived and went into hiding. But they recovered his body! It was positively identified, photographed, autopsied, and returned to New York by train for burial. His personal effects, including initialed gold watch was delivered to his son, and he wore it for the rest of his life.

His narrative here is carried by pure invention, while omitting documented facts that inconveniently contradict him. This is a researcher? Maybe he wants it to be true because it upholds his pet theory that the evil cabal were responsible. They weren't. The Titanic disaster was, broadly speaking, a tragic but avoidable accident. Some people are unable to accept that accidents can actually happen without any skulduggery involved.

The Titanic conspiracy is provably fake. Which makes it unique. It serves as a barometer of someone's credentials. If you find a conspiracy researcher endorsing it, then you know that this is their standard of research (awful) - or worse, it tells you they are MORE interested in clicks than they are in TRUTH.

My spouse reads a lot of Miles Mathis, tells me about some of what he writes, and my response (this from a conspiracy researcher for decades), is often very similar to


Different take as in alternate reality! His claims are absurd.

His alternative takes on History do seem to often describe an alternate reality

[ThePythonicCow]

His alternative takes on History do seem to often describe an alternate reality
Don't get me and your spouse in the same room ... we'll share Miles Mathis theories for hours :chuckle:. Or, on the other hand, you could wander off unnoticed and get lots done on some other project you'd like to focus on.

Yes - Mathis lives in a different reality. The thing is, the main stream "realities", of both science and public affairs, are about as insane as Mathis' reality, however they are also far more boring and deliberately deceptive. Puzzling over multiple broken or improperly read maps of reality provides a sometimes interesting and fruitful way to fit pieces from here and there together, to form yet another intriguing and alternative view that yields new insights. Mathis can be a creatively inventive genius, bordering on insane. I read more or less all his stuff.