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View Full Version : On human's ultimate goal dilemma: what about the non-spiritual GOOD people?



niki
19th April 2012, 04:15
Each day that I've browse and read through these forums (and also many other websites) seem to increase my interest and knowledge about these whole 'ultimate Truth-seeking' , 'Bigger Realities / dimensions' thing.

But being raised as more balanced, critical, and as well as having skeptical side nurtured by many people around me in real life, there always seems to be new & curious questions for these kind of things.

One of the most curious question from me, for example:
We are all here seems to assume that the human's "Ultimate Goal" is : to gain knowledge to know Who We really Are, and ascend, transcend into a Higher Dimension.
but in everyday's reality, I've seen that there are truly good people yet they're the NON-spiritual type (eg: atheists, agnostics GOOD people, or people that simply don't care much about religions, science spiritual stuff, they just do GOOD everyday and living a very simple kind of warm, caring, emphatic life).

So, how can you explain about these kind of 'non-spiritual GOOD' people? (they DO exist!)
what is their 'destiny' then?...
what does "God", "The Source", or "higher Realities" have in store for these kind of people?...
are they 'ignorant'?...not necessarily, right?
so, can we 'judge' them, for NOT knowing about these 'deeper Truth' stuff?

another bob
19th April 2012, 04:36
Each day that I've browse and read through these forums (and also many other websites) seem to increase my interest and knowledge about these whole 'ultimate Truth-seeking' , 'Bigger Realities / dimensions' thing.

But being raised as more balanced, critical, and as well as having skeptical side nurtured by many people around me in real life, there always seems to be new & curious questions for these kind of things.

One of the most curious question from me, for example:
We are all here seems to assume that the human's "Ultimate Goal" is : to gain knowledge to know Who We really Are, and ascend, transcend into a Higher Dimension.
but in everyday's reality, I've seen that there are truly good people yet they're the NON-spiritual type (eg: atheists, agnostics GOOD people, or people that simply don't care much about religions, science spiritual stuff, they just do GOOD everyday and living a very simple kind of warm, caring, emphatic life).

So, how can you explain about these kind of 'non-spiritual GOOD' people? (they DO exist!)
what is their 'destiny' then?...
what does "God", "The Source", or "higher Realities" have in store for these kind of people?...
are they 'ignorant'?...not necessarily, right?
so, can we 'judge' them, for NOT knowing about these 'deeper Truth' stuff?



Hiya Niki!

When I was a young child in Catholic school, I was told that only Catholics got into heaven, and even if you were a good and kind Protestant,for example, it was just too bad -- the best you could do was Limbo.

It took a rather dramatic spiritual experience at the age of 8 to realize that was a bunch of BS, and that in fact we have never been separated from Source in the first place.

Next I was told by "spiritual" people that only the so-called enlightened were able to achieve true happiness. Again, it took an nde to realize that was also a bunch of BS, and that some sort of personal "enlightenment" is actually not what we're here for.

What I came to realize was that this human life is like a series of virtual reality tests we have agreed to participate in, in order to see what we're really made of, and that the only way to pass these tests is to live with impeccable integrity, discarding all greed, envy, and hatred.

Whether or not we fancy some idea about "ultimate truths" or " greater realities or dimensions" has nothing to do with anything, except to maybe clog up our free functionality with useless concepts.

:yo:

Ernie Nemeth
19th April 2012, 04:44
That's a good point niki.
I know a few of these type myself. We are each on different paths, for one thing. Not everyone is here to ascend or become enlightened.
They may or may not ascend - as the fancy might take them when their time arrives. As all of us will do...
There is no difference between them and those searching for enlightenment. Besides, who says the goal is to ascend? And how come those are the authorities in this matter. Searching for enlightenment does not make one superior or even farther along the road. Some say we are all enlightened beings who purposefully forgot their identity so they could pretend to be something that they are not. Behind that focused forgetfulness we are already enlightened, they say.
So I'd say that it is not what one is doing that counts but how one is doing what they are doing. And what they're intentions are.
Thanks

ozlemer
19th April 2012, 06:15
Hi Niki,

Maybe those people are here to help us ascend?

Snowbird
19th April 2012, 08:11
One of the most curious question from me, for example:
We are all here seems to assume that the human's "Ultimate Goal" is : to gain knowledge to know Who We really Are, and ascend, transcend into a Higher Dimension.
but in everyday's reality, I've seen that there are truly good people yet they're the NON-spiritual type (eg: atheists, agnostics GOOD people, or people that simply don't care much about religions, science spiritual stuff, they just do GOOD everyday and living a very simple kind of warm, caring, emphatic life).

So, how can you explain about these kind of 'non-spiritual GOOD' people? (they DO exist!)
what is their 'destiny' then?...
what does "God", "The Source", or "higher Realities" have in store for these kind of people?...
are they 'ignorant'?...not necessarily, right?
so, can we 'judge' them, for NOT knowing about these 'deeper Truth' stuff?

Niki, you have asked one of thee most profound questions that I can think of. I have an inner need to protect many of these, even though there are times when I would like to shake them awake. I have to always remember with these that I was once spiritually, where they are now. That helps. They are simply on their own chosen path and will progress in their own chosen time frame.

We all wish that would be sooner than later. :sad:

xbusymom
19th April 2012, 10:17
I have come to believe that all are spiritual (we all have a spirit of the life force of GOD; whatever each deems as GOD "their higher self/laws of nature, etc/") but not everyone is religious... and We are each here to run thru our own life-lessons.

christian
19th April 2012, 10:45
So, how can you explain about these kind of 'non-spiritual GOOD' people? (they DO exist!)

Hey niki, nice post, I know those people and I totally agree with you. I find they are spiritual, they just don't call it that ;)

"By their fruit you will recognize them." It's about what people do and what is in their hearts, that determines their destinies, not what label they put on themselves. There are people, who call themselves spiritual and behave rather abusive, did you notice that? Guess what their destiny is. Getting another chance to learn some lessons? You bet.

There's a difference between knowing some profound truths and living up to them.

Timreh
19th April 2012, 12:30
Great question Niki..
I don’t think everyones “Ultimate Goal” or “Purpose in Life” needs to be “to be awakened”, to knowingly raise their vibration or lead a “spiritual path”.
Look at those people who some consider to be “old souls” or to have understanding beyond their years who inspire and teach others yet they may not lead a “spiritual life”..

Has anyone heard of Nick Vujicic?
This guy always brings tears of joy to my eyes
AW579icDRSA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW579icDRSA&feature=related)

People such as Einstein, Thomas Edison, the Wright Brothers and Nikola Tesla achieved so much and benefitted mankind without (I am guessing!) leading spiritual lives.
We all like people who have a positive attitude and outlook, a good energy about them, they inspire us, lift us and are fun to be around people like that can play a part in changing the world just by being themselves, by their presence alone!
Another point is Soul Journeys and that maybe some people enter their lives for different reasons such as learning certain lessons, meeting or helping certain people, mastering certain emotions (i.e. forgiveness), maybe there is a karmic debt to be paid?
Maybe thinking that unless people discover their “Ultimate Goal” or discover their “Purpose in Life” they will miss out or be at a loss is just like saying that you cannot get to God unless you go through Jesus Christ?


Each person to their own..
(I had lots of fun replying to this thread)

Tarka the Duck
19th April 2012, 12:51
Hi Niki,

Maybe those people are here to help us ascend?

Not sure what you mean here - please could you elaborate?
Thanks
Kathie

Ernie Nemeth
19th April 2012, 14:00
SoulAppreciation, your vid brought tears to my eyes.
Thank you

percival tyro
19th April 2012, 21:49
Hi Soul.....Old souls don't seem to have much to say but they are easy to be with.

Flash
19th April 2012, 21:52
At the soul level, I am pretty sure that a bunch of ordinary looking but extremely good or extremely giving (in science, arts, education, etc) people are in fact advanced souls. They just do not know it and may not have the need to know it in order to perform their earthly mission decided by the soul.

Good people are on the right path anyhow, why wonder?

Cilka
19th April 2012, 22:13
I believe that people who will ascend/evolve do not have to be spiritual at all. Anyone can ascend/evolve (I dont necessarily mean to 4D or 5D, I personally don't believe that ascending involves moving to 4D or 5D), even the bad people, depeding what their higher self decides to do. In a way I am not really in control of deciding if I will ascend/evolve, it is my subconsciousness that will decide that for me. In my 3D mind I may think that I will ascend or I might not, but on a higher level of this reality the higher self has already made that choice, if it wants to ascend or not.

WhiteFeather
19th April 2012, 22:18
IMO We are here to progress our soul journey if you will. There are many paths to take to expand our soul collective. As we journey here on earth we learn how to expand and progress the soul lessons.
Many souls come back again to this plane because they havent passed the proverbial kindergarten stages and have to start over again. But some may learn it easier than others. Eventually they will graduate and move on to 1st grade on this 3rd density planet. Some say when we die we judge ourselves on what lessons we have accumulated or havent accumulated to our soul and if we feel we need to come back again we do till we finally get it right. I myself learned many lessons in these past two years since my awakening/enlightenment stages. Who knows, i may just want to come back as well after i go before myself. But i think im ready to move on. And I give Kudos to The Project Avalon forum, it has helped me tremendously move forward with regards to my spiritual evolution.

Here's a good when you get a chance. Its free and on PDF Format. Enjoy! : )

DESTINY OF SOULS
by
Michael Duff Newton
http://arbid.co.uk/views/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DestinyofSouls.pdf

jorr lundstrom
19th April 2012, 23:19
Are wot you call "spiritual people" something else than people who has
got ideas about themselves as being "spiritual"? Is there any differences
between "spiritual people"" and non-spiritual people"? I really cant see
any other differences than that so called "spiritual people" have put a label
on themselves.
I just experience that this body is lived by something or rather some-not-thing
I really dont know wot it is, but I like to call it divinity.
Isnt all living beings lived by this divinity?
Isnt all living beings in the condition and place it can be this moment?


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/baboons.jpg


All is well


Jorr 2.0

Mozart
20th April 2012, 03:29
So, how can you explain about these kind of 'non-spiritual GOOD' people? (they DO exist!)




Great thread idea, Niki!


I used to have really fun knock-down, drag-out debates with atheists years ago. It's my favorite kind of debate, but we had no bridge to cross upon in which we could share our perceptions of reality as we know it here in the physical.


I used to bring up the fact that in several books -- I can't recall their titles -- there were accounts of atheists having NDEs (Near Death Experiences) with which they realized that they were very much alive beyond their 3-D space/time bodies, so they then had experiences that just blew them away.


So when they came back to their bodies and woke up, NONE of them continued as atheists. NONE.


Here's a good site about atheists and NDEs:


http://www.near-death.com/atheists.html





what is their 'destiny' then?...




Same as the rest of us ... to return to the very same Source, All That Is, Intelligent Infinity, Big Jackass Upstairs from which we all emerged. It matters not what we call the Big Mama upstairs -- even silly terms like I've used just now, as She loves humor, ya know -- as She loves us all, no matter what, including those who may disavow Her existence for short periods of times in their incarnation(s) as atheists.


The destiny of all of us is to simply return to our Source ... albeit via different paths. The Source is like the hub of a wheel with many spokes -- paths -- extending outward, but all returning back to the same hub, the same Source from which we all sprang eons ago, whether any of us believe it, or not.





what does "God", "The Source", or "higher Realities" have in store for these kind of people?...




The same stuff as the rest of us -- enlightenment, joy, bliss, happiness, love, light, radiance, forgiveness, etc, etc.





are they 'ignorant'?...not necessarily, right?




I find that many atheists are very intelligent people, so I would not call them "ignorant", as I would say that they are choosing their paths as atheists and that's tough to do in a world that's dominated by those who believe in Higher Powers.





so, can we 'judge' them, for NOT knowing about these 'deeper Truth' stuff?




No, never judge them, nor others ... easier said than done! It'll be the hardest thing in the world for me to bring myself to forgive our tyrannical oppressors -- the dark bastard cabal -- but I know that I will have to eventually.


But here's the awesome thing about the bridge that I finally found that I can share with atheists in discussing "spiritual" matters -- torsion fields.


Torsion fields are the subtle energy fields that surround all matter/energy and they've been proven to exist and to have effects in our 3-D space/time reality -- proven by brilliant Russian scientists who, in the aftermath of the collapse of the old Soviet Union, had nothing to do and no money coming in, so they got busy and explored things that intrigued them, as they had already started into this field of studying torsion fields prior to the collapse of the old Soviet Union.


So now they've proven the existence/reality of torsion fields in experiential, scientific means ... which are the very same means of reality foundation that the atheists base their belief systems upon!


So if you study torsion fields, like with this eBook by David Wilcock ...

http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/books-free-online/20-the-divine-cosmos/96-the-divine-cosmos-chapter-02-light-on-quantum-physics

... and familiarize yourselves with the science and spirituality of torsion fields, you will have a ball of a time communicating/debating with atheists. Have fun!


~Mozart

niki
20th April 2012, 16:00
thank you for all the responses, I'm learning a lot,
especially @Mozart : I like your post, it doesn't only explain in a quite logical, and scientific as well, but you've also shown some PROOF about the atheists that have converted, knowing "there's something MORE out there" than what they've first led to believe!
interesting~

crested-duck
20th April 2012, 16:34
thank you for all the responses, I'm learning a lot,
especially @Mozart : I like your post, it doesn't only explain in a quite logical, and scientific as well, but you've also shown some PROOF about the atheists that have converted, knowing "there's something MORE out there" than what they've first led to believe!
interesting~ niki, I at this point in time, think that this life is a personal quest each has come to learn personal lessons about duality , and love, and the act of learning to overcome personal tragedies and forgiveing another soul, also learning "acceptance". Whenever I hear or see the word ascension, I automatically think "evolution" always. Just like everytime I ever heard Fox news say"fair and balanced" my inner voice screamed out "full of crap" always everytime.

kcbc2010
20th April 2012, 16:49
I find your post interesting because I've been thinking about this lately in reference to a couple of people I know; however, my version of the question wasn't nearly as thought out as yours!

I tend to think it's all about the individual and where they are in relationship to the Creator. I know someone who is a perfect example of this. He walks this fine line between being unhinged/zealot when it comes to his "Atheist Pride" stuff. However, he posted the most magnificent video about the Earth and he described how it "awed" him in great detail. You could tell that he was truly amazed by the Earth's beauty, but he wasn't willing to go as far as saying there was an "invisible hand/Creator" at work. It opened my eyes to his perspective a bit more than had he not posted the video. And I realized that we do have more common ground than I sometimes think we do. He's very scientifically minded and while I can understand some of the ideas/theories, I'm more into faith and knowing by intuition. I just don't need physical proof for some of the things that I believe whereas he needs "to prove" it w/physical or scientific evidence/facts. It makes us different in our approach to issues, but I'm not sure if that makes us different when it comes to spirituality. People are inherently different.

EC1000
20th April 2012, 16:51
Each day that I've browse and read through these forums (and also many other websites) seem to increase my interest and knowledge about these whole 'ultimate Truth-seeking' , 'Bigger Realities / dimensions' thing.

But being raised as more balanced, critical, and as well as having skeptical side nurtured by many people around me in real life, there always seems to be new & curious questions for these kind of things.

One of the most curious question from me, for example:
We are all here seems to assume that the human's "Ultimate Goal" is : to gain knowledge to know Who We really Are, and ascend, transcend into a Higher Dimension.
but in everyday's reality, I've seen that there are truly good people yet they're the NON-spiritual type (eg: atheists, agnostics GOOD people, or people that simply don't care much about religions, science spiritual stuff, they just do GOOD everyday and living a very simple kind of warm, caring, emphatic life).

So, how can you explain about these kind of 'non-spiritual GOOD' people? (they DO exist!)
what is their 'destiny' then?...
what does "God", "The Source", or "higher Realities" have in store for these kind of people?...
are they 'ignorant'?...not necessarily, right?
so, can we 'judge' them, for NOT knowing about these 'deeper Truth' stuff?

Good questions. I used to have similar ones myself but over the years I believe more and more that it's much more simple than what we try to make it out to be:
- there is some sort of "god" overseeing everything
- this "god" does not make the separations that we do "spiritual vs. non spiritual"
- um, no one here (on Earth) really knows anything about the "true" nature of this type of stuff
- there's very likely only a small number of humans who truly walk the talk when it comes to being a purely spiritual being, or conversely we are all spiritual beings
- everything is as it should be (like it or not)
-time will tell
-there is no time :)
-hope this helps

ozlemer
20th April 2012, 17:18
Hi Niki,

Maybe those people are here to help us ascend?

Not sure what you mean here - please could you elaborate?
Thanks
Kathie

Hi Kathie,

What I meant to say was that not all people are into religion and/or any belief systems. All these good people are also here for a reason and maybe they don't know it (or remember) and since they are good people I'm sure that they are influencing goodness and love around them. I believe that on the spiritual level everything is about love and the likes. So they could be helping the ones around them.

Hope I explained what I meant :)

Thanks.

xbusymom
20th April 2012, 20:26
so what would you call a person who has recovered from 'religion'? ... not an athiest, because I do believe in a higher GOD-like power/ universal energy/ life-source/ ???

??

Mozart
20th April 2012, 21:24
so what would you call a person who has recovered from 'religion'? ... not an athiest, because I do believe in a higher GOD-like power/ universal energy/ life-source/ ???

??


I'd say this: "awakened and dis-disillusioned" from the illusion of religion.


The purpose of the illusion of religion is to eventually become dis-disillusioned and to awaken to true spirituality of following one's own Higher Self.


~Mozart

Ernie Nemeth
21st April 2012, 11:47
I had a buddy who I was working with on this stuff. He was an atheist.
Then he had a brain embolism and almost died, the doctors did not think he'd make it but he did. I would go and sit by his bed in ICU and talk to him. He was unconscious the first few times. Then, when he finally regained consciousness he could not remember me. He was very confused. Anyway, he recovered, memory mostly intact.

The point being, he changed completely. He became loving, gentle and caring (none of those were his strong suits before the illness). And he developed a belief in God. That mushy, first blush of knowing, if you know what I mean. He was over the top with it. And when the novelty began wearing thin he became very needy, controlling and demanding. He started trying to schedule my time for me, telling me when to come and when to go. And homey don't play that game.

After a few blow outs and many disagreements I finally realized my work with him was done.

Wonder how he's doing these days.