Why is Lucifer "LIGHT-Bringer" & "MORNING Star"? Is He Christ or Anti-Christ?

[seigiarchon]

You know, I have always distrusted the Bible and the Vatican, not to mention most of the mainstream Christian/Catholic churches and the other variations of Christianity/Catholicism eg Protestant.

There are only a few True Esoteric Christan Temples whom I truly trust but this is for another thread.

My point is, it was man who wrote the Bible, man who wrote that Lucifer is the "LIGHT-Bringer" and "MORNING Star" and he will tempt you away from God. It had always been the Vatican and other mainstream Churches who keep blasting at Lucifer as the main enemy of God.

My questions to all would be..

1) If Lucifer is indeed the lord of darkness as the man-written bible claimed him to be, then why is he given such holy sounding names like "LIGHT-Bringer" and "MORNING Star"?

Why not called the Devil "Darkness-Bringer" and "Black Hole"? Those would be more appropriate darker names for a lord of darkness, isn't it?

2) We all know that TPTB had used disinformation techniques to discredit spiritual, political and ufo activists in the past.

Osho for eg had mud slung at his name. Martin Luther King had mud slung at his name. Various UFO witnesses and activists were called "mad". A famous Remote Viewer name David Morehouse was discredited heavily for trying to expose the CIA's RV program. The Aids Fraud activists were called down for having no proper medical qualifications to criticize the work of the Aids scientists. Basically anyone threatened the system and status quo were discredited.

So who's to say the Vatican didn't use similar techniques to target specific mythological figures or gods whose main role is to tear down the Prison which we live in? Now I am not saying Lucifer is really the next Savior instead of being the Devil. All I am saying is..

Based on TPTB's record of tearing down figures who threaten the status quo, Lucifer aka "LIGHT-Bringer" aka "MORNING Star" could well be the next Christ, Buddha, Savior, Messiah or he could be the Anti-Christ Devil whom we all know.

Lucifer might even be both. The Saviour and the Devil all-in-one.

3) I know for a fact there the Gods in the higher dimensions are warring right now and we petty humans are their foot-soldiers.

There are a lot of Gods and Archons who want to keep humans in prison forever because this would mean sources of energies for the Gods and Archons to feed on. There are also Gods and Archons who want to free humans from this prison which they are in.

Which side is Lucifer on? I don't know.

But I know the Vatican and their unholy child-sex priests have withheld many spiritual secrets from humanity. They locked their spiitual secrets away in their basement, spiritual secrets which could free humanity.

The Vatican would be on the side of the Gods and Archons who want to keep humanity in prison despite their so-called "allegiance" to the Universal Creator.

But Lucifer? You do know there is this saying, don't you? The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend.

Now I am not asking anyone to worship Lucifer. He might be a Devil or He might be a Messiah. Maybe both. But what I want is for this issue to be explored critically without any blind references to scriptures.

Because Blind Obedience is what lead humanity into this prison which they are in today.

[seigiarchon]

I know for a fact that there are higher dimensional entities out there who are using Humans as batteries of energies. This was part of my official confirmation. And I am sure most of you know about such parasitic Archons as well.

Lucifer was cast out of Heaven but what was he cast out for?

Was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he wanted Humans to be in Prison forever? Because he wanted Humans to be soul food for the higher dimensional energy sucking Archons? If so, then why didn't the Creator and his Archangels and other Gods and Buddhas free Humanity from all these energy-sucking higher dimensional entities a long, long time ago? Because the Celestial Heaven took away Lucifer's power, didn't they?

Or was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he opposed this plan of using Humanity as Batteries of Energies for Higher Gods and Archons? If so then it makes sense for the Vatican, who are aligned with this idea of using Humans as food for higher entities, to cast Lucifer as the Devil as this would mean he wouldn't be able to raise an army of human revolutionaries who would throw off their chains and shackles.

You do the Math.

P.S. Now if the second scenario is true, this would mean that the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas agree to this plan of using Humanity as soul food for higher- dimensional parasites.

As part of my official confirmation, I was told that this would be a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship.

The Archons was suppose to help Humanity evolve as the Archons themselves evolve.

If the second scenario is true, I am not saying that this Plan approved by the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas and other Gods is evil.

I am just saying that it is time this Plan gets thrown out of the window.

[seigiarchon]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44433-There-s-going-to-be-a-mass-star-wars-tonight.&p=477484#post477484

Hello. I know I don't post here often but I feel as though I should let you all know that there's going to be a rather large star wars tonight or in the early, early morning. Not here on Earth but elsewhere in the cosmos. I don't know what groups are going to fight it out. I know this because I can feel a strong super-charged sensation in the air and throughout my body. That's the best way I can describe it. Something interesting may happen tomorrow as a result of this war.

I told you guys that the Higher Dimensions are having a war and we are the Prize.

Some want to keep feeding on us while others want us free.

Better get used to it.

[seigiarchon]

It was the Romans who crucified Jesus Christ.

It was the Roman Catholic Church aka the Vatican who brainwashed the masses into worshiping an image where the Son of God was tortured and crucified.

The Cross was meant to be an holy symbol but it was the Roman Catholic Church aka the Vatican who defiled the Cross by crucifying Jesus Christ on it. And the Vatican is still defiling the Cross by forcing the brainwashed masses to worship the defiled image of Jesus Christ being crucified upon the Cross.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church destroyed the Cathars and the Knight Templars in their Great Inquisition? Why did the Church launch the crusades against the Holy City Jerusalem?

Why did the Romans destroyed the Essenes, a mystical order which Jesus Christ was a part of? Why did the Roman Vatican destroyed Jesus Christ?

What do the Cathars, the Knight Templars, Jerusalem, the Essenes and Jesus Christ had in common?

Do your Math. Link the causes together.

Who is the real Devil in this world?

[RedeZra]

Who is the real Devil in this world?


i guess devil is what evil does

and if we can't discriminate between good and evil

then we might be devils in the making

[seigiarchon]

Who is the real Devil in this world?


i guess devil is what evil does

and if we can't discriminate between good and evil

then we might be devils in the making

who define what is good or evil?

you?

[RedeZra]

Who is the real Devil in this world?


i guess devil is what evil does

and if we can't discriminate between good and evil

then we might be devils in the making

who define what is good or evil?

you?


the Word of God Jesus Christ

[kreagle]

I know for a fact that there are higher dimensional entities out there who are using Humans as batteries of energies. This was part of my official confirmation. And I am sure most of you know about such parasitic Archons as well.

Lucifer was cast out of Heaven but what was he cast out for?

Was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he wanted Humans to be in Prison forever? Because he wanted Humans to be soul food for the higher dimensional energy sucking Archons? If so, then why didn't the Creator and his Archangels and other Gods and Buddhas free Humanity from all these energy-sucking higher dimensional entities a long, long time ago? Because the Celestial Heaven took away Lucifer's power, didn't they?

Or was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he opposed this plan of using Humanity as Batteries of Energies for Higher Gods and Archons? If so then it makes sense for the Vatican, who are aligned with this idea of using Humans as food for higher entities, to cast Lucifer as the Devil as this would mean he wouldn't be able to raise an army of human revolutionaries who would throw off their chains and shackles.

You do the Math.

P.S. Now if the second scenario is true, this would mean that the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas agree to this plan of using Humanity as soul food for higher- dimensional parasites.

As part of my official confirmation, I was told that this would be a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship.

The Archons was suppose to help Humanity evolve as the Archons themselves evolve.

If the second scenario is true, I am not saying that this Plan approved by the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas and other Gods is evil.

I am just saying that it is time this Plan gets thrown out of the window.

seigiarchon,

I don't know where you are getting your "reading material" from, but it is obviously not from the Scriptures. Neither one of your scenarios, regarding the expulsion of Lucifer, (or Satan), from Heaven are correct.

Lucifer, quite simply, chose to self-exalt himself to the same "level as God". This, alone, was more than enough to get himself booted from the previous lofty position he formerly held.

Isaiah 14:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Love and Peace,.....kreagle

[SharonKay]

Alice Bailey's publishing company was called "Lucis" Publishing Company. Taken from the name "Lucifer". The works that were published were all dedicated to true enlightenment based on the beliefs of the Theosophical Society that Madam Blavatsky was a part of. I think they thought of Lucifer as a bringer of enlightenment, which would fit perfectly with the name meaning bringer of light.
I always had trouble, too, with the portrayal of the christian church of Lucifer and the meaning of his name. The fact that he was one of God's very best Angels with the name that means "bringer of light" and then one day he just "rebels"..? I was never clear on what he was rebelling from. And the reaction of "God" is to banish him to a lake of fire forever more, and to have an eternal battle with him over our souls... doesnt make sense on so many levels.
And for some reason when I think of this topic of Lucifer being the rebel angel, I have in the forefront of my mind He-man and She-Ra in the land of Eternia. As a kid watching that cartoon, I never understood why the good characters were called the rebels and they got their powers from the "Castle Grey Skull" and if you look at their features, they are obviously from the Aryan race. He-Man looks dead up like a German body builder. She-Ra (who was He-Man's twin sister) looks like Maria from the Vril society. There are so many references in that show to magic and sorcery and the eternal struggle between "good" and "evil". And the terms "good" and "evil" are simply a point of view. We see aliens killing humans as evil obviously because we are humans and we dont want to be killed. But how many people think its evil when you buy a kid a "Happy Meal" for dinner that has tortured and mutilated chicken or cow in it, not to mention the cancer causing ingredients in the fry grease and so on in it? Not many. Most people skip up into McDonald with big smiles on their faces and treat their kids to a "Happy Meal" because our society conditions them to think like this, or I should say, "not to think" like this. Maybe Lucifer was trying to enlighten people to see the horrors of the establishment (like McDonalds) and the governing establishment (God) didnt want the people to see things that way, so Lucifer became the Rebel. If you think about the the story of the garden of Eden, eating the apple is a metaphor for seeing the truth... and thats all the serpent wanted for Adam and eve... for them to see the truth of their situation instead of walking around in some nieve haze just doing what they are told. I never saw what was wrong with that... All these stories point towards a mean and slave driving God and a couragously brave and loving Angel "rebel" named Lucifer.
But I dont know... im just going off of stories. I dont know what really happened, or who the real players are. I just know the stories are twisted. They are meant to makes you think one way, but if you put any real logic to them, you have to consider that the ones telling the stories either need to eat an apple, or they are working for Skellitor :)
Maybe its just the dislexic in me, but when I read the world "evil" or "devil".. I first see the word "live" or "lived".
To live, we all must feed... feeding becomes evil when you are the one being eaten. (That is a deeply profound and simple statment that I would like you to consider.)
I have no conclusions.. these are just things to consider.

[modwiz]

Lucifer, very misunderstood. Pointing out the time, place or particulars is relatively impossible and wholly unimportant to the big picture. That being the creation of the current form of humanity, and perhaps some precedents.

When the beings that engineered us were presenting us to their counterparts, Lucifer saw how very flawed we were and mocked them and us. A quick look around, at the world and its' inhabitants, the masses, will prove him basically correct. At present he does stand vindicated for his astute, if cynical, observation. His observation was the flawed nature of his peers and their creation. This is a very simplified form. Kept simple because proof will be in short supply. Less detail will prove closer to the truth.

In this forum we discuss the asleep ones. This was forseen by Lucifer. We, the awake ones, argue amongst ourselves over the pettiest things and divide ourselves with these behaviors. Lucifer saw that too. He saw how very pathetic we are and how we will sell our souls for a little comfort and security, to whoever offers it, or the best deal. He offers deals that are clearly in our own worst interests that appeal to our lower nature and fears and so many of us gobble them up. His peers and competitors offer similar deals, with generally gentler slippery slopes. Lucifer purposely offers what should be obviously lower nature deals. This is on purpose. He has a point to prove, that we humans are despicable creations. He gets a lot reasons to support his case. Millions, if not billions, of them. Is he evil? Certainly no more than any of the 'gods' who are part of our creation and their Earthly lackeys.

He is a proud one, to be sure, but more fair and open than many of his peers. Deals can be, and should be, declined. Courtesy, sympathy and taste will serve you well. You will be respected and left alone by him and those who work with him. Negative energetic output, or loosh, will still attract parasites and energy vampires to you and it is for us to learn to manage our emotions better and realize forgiveness will release us from karma and the anger 'loops' that go with it.

That so many people would rather watch TV rather than work on their energetic selves, use drugs habitually, or just be willfully ignorant, is why Lucifer still holds us, as a whole, in a disdainful manner. I fight with that same disdain myself, but find that I must bring and/or hold as much light as I can. It is a role I chose and my honor and integrity is tied up in that choice. I am after all, born of the flesh and have a special 'issue' with traitors.

The story of Gaia, is another aspect and outside the more focused nature of this discussion of Lucifer.

The bottom line is: Lucifer has a point to prove. He is supremely intelligent, and very proud. Any offers are always connected to proving his point. This includes higher knowledge, although he is certainly not the only source of it.

[Fred Steeves]

He is a proud one, to be sure, but more fair and open than many of his peers. Deals can be, and should be, declined. Courtesy, sympathy and taste will serve you well. You will be respected and left alone by him and those who work with him.


I like that.

[Curt]

It would appear that he's proven this point many times over. So why beat a dead horse? Why does he stick around?


Lucifer, very misunderstood. Pointing out the time, place or particulars is relatively impossible and wholly unimportant to the big picture. That being the creation of the current form of humanity, and perhaps some precedents.

When the beings that engineered us were presenting us to their counterparts, Lucifer saw how very flawed we were and mocked them and us. A quick look around, at the world and its' inhabitants, the masses, will prove him basically correct. At present he does stand vindicated for his astute, if cynical, observation. His observation was the flawed nature of his peers and their creation. This is a very simplified form. Kept simple because proof will be in short supply. Less detail will prove closer to the truth.

In this forum we discuss the asleep ones. This was forseen by Lucifer. We, the awake ones, argue amongst ourselves over the pettiest things and divide ourselves with these behaviors. Lucifer saw that too. He saw how very pathetic we are and how we will sell our souls for a little comfort and security, to whoever offers it, or the best deal. He offers deals that are clearly in our own worst interests that appeal to our lower nature and fears and so many of us gobble them up. His peers and competitors offer similar deals, with generally gentler slippery slopes. Lucifer purposely offers what should be obviously lower nature deals. This is on purpose. He has a point to prove, that we humans are despicable creations. He gets a lot reasons to support his case. Millions, if not billions, of them. Is he evil? Certainly no more than any of the 'gods' who are part of our creation and their Earthly lackeys.

He is a proud one, to be sure, but more fair and open than many of his peers. Deals can be, and should be, declined. Courtesy, sympathy and taste will serve you well. You will be respected and left alone by him and those who work with him. Negative energetic output, or loosh, will still attract parasites and energy vampires to you and it is for us to learn to manage our emotions better and realize forgiveness will release us from karma and the angers 'loops' that go with it.

That so many people would rather watch TV rather than work on their energetic selves, use drugs habitually, or just be willfully ignorant, is why Lucifer still holds us, as a whole, in a disdainful manner. I fight with that same disdain myself, but find that I must bring and/or hold as much light as I can. It is a role I chose and my honor and integrity is tied up in that choice. I am after all, born of the flesh and have a special 'issue' with traitors.

The story of Gaia, is another aspect and outside the more focused nature of this discussion of Lucifer.

[The Truth Is In There]

lucifer is the same as jesus or any of the other "enlightened" beings that supposedly lived on earth at one time or another. lucifer is not only the morning star, he's also the sun or a light photon or god. he's just a metaphor, not an actual being. light is energy and information, darkness is the absence of it. the metaphors of jesus or lucifer, buddha, krishna or the sun (son) of god simply symbolize a fully enlightened human being, a human in full possession of all powers of his higher self - one with god, or simply, god.

[modwiz]

It would appear that he's proven this point many times over. So why beat a dead horse? Why does he stick around?


Lucifer, very misunderstood. Pointing out the time, place or particulars is relatively impossible and wholly unimportant to the big picture. That being the creation of the current form of humanity, and perhaps some precedents.

When the beings that engineered us were presenting us to their counterparts, Lucifer saw how very flawed we were and mocked them and us. A quick look around, at the world and its' inhabitants, the masses, will prove him basically correct. At present he does stand vindicated for his astute, if cynical, observation. His observation was the flawed nature of his peers and their creation. This is a very simplified form. Kept simple because proof will be in short supply. Less detail will prove closer to the truth.

In this forum we discuss the asleep ones. This was forseen by Lucifer. We, the awake ones, argue amongst ourselves over the pettiest things and divide ourselves with these behaviors. Lucifer saw that too. He saw how very pathetic we are and how we will sell our souls for a little comfort and security, to whoever offers it, or the best deal. He offers deals that are clearly in our own worst interests that appeal to our lower nature and fears and so many of us gobble them up. His peers and competitors offer similar deals, with generally gentler slippery slopes. Lucifer purposely offers what should be obviously lower nature deals. This is on purpose. He has a point to prove, that we humans are despicable creations. He gets a lot reasons to support his case. Millions, if not billions, of them. Is he evil? Certainly no more than any of the 'gods' who are part of our creation and their Earthly lackeys.

He is a proud one, to be sure, but more fair and open than many of his peers. Deals can be, and should be, declined. Courtesy, sympathy and taste will serve you well. You will be respected and left alone by him and those who work with him. Negative energetic output, or loosh, will still attract parasites and energy vampires to you and it is for us to learn to manage our emotions better and realize forgiveness will release us from karma and the angers 'loops' that go with it.

That so many people would rather watch TV rather than work on their energetic selves, use drugs habitually, or just be willfully ignorant, is why Lucifer still holds us, as a whole, in a disdainful manner. I fight with that same disdain myself, but find that I must bring and/or hold as much light as I can. It is a role I chose and my honor and integrity is tied up in that choice. I am after all, born of the flesh and have a special 'issue' with traitors.

The story of Gaia, is another aspect and outside the more focused nature of this discussion of Lucifer.


LOL. Ask him.

The bet is still pending. Like Bill and his hat.

[Curt]

Well, no offense to the angel of light, but I hope he eats his hat.

;)

[Curt]

As to bets...the scenario sounds a bit like that of the Book of Job, i.e., God and the devil essentially making a bet about whether a man (in this case, all of mankind) can be righteous...

[modwiz]

Well, no offense to the angel of light, but I hope he eats his hat.

;)

I understand your flipping a metaphor. I want us to win this one also. I'm not so sure Lucifer wants us to lose, but he is playing to win. Anything else would not show the truth for what is is. Do we suck or are we worthy? This is all in our hands. May they prove to be capable ones. It is why the paradigm shift before us is so important. Some very brave men and women could help strip away much of the corruption on this planet. Will it be like cleaning a kids room or will we all grow up and tend to keeping our rooms/houses in order?

It is what happens after the cleansing, (I pray it happens soon) that will ultimately matter. After the sh!t is gone will we just sh!t all over everything again?

So, as you can see, that bet is still pending. Bill could end up eating his hat and Lucifer could still win his bet.

This is all up to us.

[pugwash84]

Lucifer was a beautiful shining arch angel and he was jealous of God and wanted to have as much power as God so he started a war and was too proud to back down. This is why they say pride comes before a fall. Lucifer was cast out of heaven and all the angels who were on his side were cast out too. He is very beautiful and this is why a lot of people wanted to follow him for his charm and beauty. Also in the end times he is meant to come back pretending to be the second coming of Christ and try to fool people into following him. People wouldn't follow a ugly demonic looking creature :)

[modwiz]

As to bets...the scenario sounds a bit like that of the Book of Job, i.e., God and the devil essentially making a bet about whether a man (in this case, all of mankind) can be righteous...

The Book of Job is unique in the OT. It almost doesn't fit. I find the most useful part of it in the beginning, when the lord is having a meeting and Satan is casually walking about the place. No one is alarmed or asks, "How did he get in here?" God basically greets him as a friend he has not seen in some time, the back ans forth between them is telling also. Very casual. Furthermore, the leeway the God gives Satan, certainly show little empathy for Job. Very typical of the gods to view humans as things to be toyed with, property to discuss the merits of. Like the two guys in trading places betting a dollar over what would happen if they switched to peoples' lives around.

The Book of Job is priceless for these insights. The rest of it tends to just support a narrative.

[Humble Janitor]

Thanks OP for this topic. It has always baffled me as to why the light-bringer, the morning star, is the bad guy.

I strongly distrust both the Catholic and Christian churches. The former has promoted the suppression of meaningful societal change and pedophilia (you can't avoid it, it's there) while the latter has promoted a return to the fictional safety of the 1950s where you couldn't say or do certain things.

Both when combined with Islam, especially the radical sects, are a pox upon humanity that must be eradicated.

I'm inclined to believe that the Catholics and Christians stand on the side of evil, not the "light-bringer"!

[Curt]

As to bets...the scenario sounds a bit like that of the Book of Job, i.e., God and the devil essentially making a bet about whether a man (in this case, all of mankind) can be righteous...

The Book of Job is unique in the OT. It almost doesn't fit. I find the most useful part of it in the beginning, when the lord is having a meeting and Satan is casually walking about the place. No one is alarmed or asks, "How did he get in here?" God basically greets him as a friend he has not seen in some time, the back ans forth between them is telling also. Very casual. Furthermore, the leeway the God gives Satan, certainly show little empathy for Job. Very typical of the gods to view humans as things to be toyed with, property to discuss the merits of. Like the two guys in trading places betting a dollar over what would happen if they switched to peoples' lives around.

The Book of Job is priceless for these insights. The rest of it tends to just support a narrative.

The characters of God and Satan do seem to be pretty chummy in the Book of Job. Almost like a couple of old war buddies...

And the lack of care and respect shown by 'God' to his creation here is pretty reckless, almost psychopathic.

It is a lot like Trading Spaces-- with one major exception.

At the end of the Book of Job the two 'big guys' didn't end up broke in the gutter with mud on their faces while Job and company caught sun on a beach someplace. That would have been better.

Presumably, God and Satan were (and are) still free to keep on making more reckless bets.

[Straker]

I was talking to a 16th degree Freemason at a shopping centre the other day, as they often raise money for certain charities, and I sat down to ask this guy some questions.

He started talking about the 'Supreme Being" so I questioned him if he knew exactly what that was, in reference to Freemasonry.

The reason being, is that this guy had not read any of Albert Pike's books, not even Morals and Dogma. I have both that book and also The Magnum Opus, so I told him that in Morals and Dogma, Pike describes the Supreme Being as "Lucifer".

He goes on to say: Lucifer the Light Bearer, Lucifer the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the light.

Here's the passage from the book. I should mention that I have no intention of aligning myself with anything evil or dark, I am merely adding info to the thread to assist the discussion.

Straker

[GoodETxSG]

To the Luciferian... he was a hero that brought civilization and technology (enlightenment/knowledge) to humanity. That is why they call him the Light bringer, also the morning star was a sign that the Sun was about to peek above the horizon. This all comes from THEIR religion and is peppered throughout our political/financial jargon. They have all kinds of twisted idea’s like that.
“Morning star is the name given to the planet Venus when it appears in the east before sunrise"

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I was talking to a 16th degree Freemason at a shopping centre the other day, as they often raise money for certain charities, and I sat down to ask this guy some questions.

He started talking about the 'Supreme Being" so I questioned him if he knew exactly what that was, in reference to Freemasonry.

The reason being, is that this guy had not read any of Albert Pike's books, not even Morals and Dogma. I have both that book and also The Magnum Opus, so I told him that in Morals and Dogma, Pike describes the Supreme Being as "Lucifer".

He goes on to say: Lucifer the Light Bearer, Lucifer the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the light.

Here's the passage from the book. I should mention that I have no intention of aligning myself with anything evil or dark, I am merely adding info to the thread to assist the discussion.

Straker

I should have read your post before making my own.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I am not religious at all. I've read the bible, though. It was required reading when I was young.

No one, will ever convince me that lucifer is an entity I should ever bow to.

Of course there is no entity I would ever bow to, except out of respect or fear. (The Source is not an entity) Banter about your favorite ancient text, and extol the virtues of its pre-eminent gods if you must.

But as Modwiz says, paraphrased: the work is within. And the little gods within will grow in magnificence in proportion to that work.

[RedeZra]

I'm inclined to believe that the Catholics and Christians stand on the side of evil, not the "light-bringer"!


you make a good commy comrade


communism is coming to the US and Europe

and is already here

as seen by the policies of our leadership


the commies are coming by invitation from Capitol


and there are no Christians in a commy world

we will have to fight convert or die

[wynderer]

i love your avatar, RedeZra -- reminds me of the singer of 'The Eve of Destruction' back in the day -- Barry McGuire -- years later i heard him sing a song about Jesus as the Cosmic Cowboy

wyn




I'm inclined to believe that the Catholics and Christians stand on the side of evil, not the "light-bringer"!


you make a good commy comrade

[conk]

http://www.rense.com/general71/defmo.htm

Quoting: What else has been kept hidden from us by those in control of church and state? Were we told the truth about the identity of Jesus - or was his identity reinvented? If his identity was reinvented, then it appears that humanity's spiritual identity was reinvented as well.

The primary shock and awe caused by the Gospel of Judas has been in the Gospel's suggestion that Jesus asked Judas to betray him. It appears, however, that this Gospel contains hints of something else far more profound - so profound, in fact, that the implications are staggering, but they seem to have escaped notice thus far. It hints of something extraordinary that has been hidden for thousands of years, although in existence since the beginning.

[Peace of Mind]

I was always under the Impression that Lucifer’s job was to test the souls of humanity through temptation/greed/self righteousness/etc...But proving to the all mighty that we are a flawed species....hmmm, this deserves some consideration. I can easily see how our flaws cause so much pain and misfortunes. I just wish the people will prove Lucifer wrong and make God proud.

To add, I’m sure God knows what it’s doing…it’s the all knowing. In time we will prevail…I’m just anxious and want to experience that beauty in this lifetime.

Peace

[PurpleLama]

I'm mildly surprised that no one has pointed out to the OP that Lucifer is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It was some famous clergyman (Luther, maybe?) who had a particular distaste for some associate of his by the name of Lucifer, so he started making comparisons and here we are, hundreds of years later, thinking the "devil" is named Lucifer. It's not entirely clear, the passage in Isaiah, that the "Morning Star" is the "devil", either. Satan was a generic hebrew/aramaic word meaning "the accuser" until the Church needed a boogey man, hundreds of years after Christ walked the earth. So much speculation repeated through the generations becomes truth to the unwary.

[seigiarchon]

I know for a fact that there are higher dimensional entities out there who are using Humans as batteries of energies. This was part of my official confirmation. And I am sure most of you know about such parasitic Archons as well.

Lucifer was cast out of Heaven but what was he cast out for?

Was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he wanted Humans to be in Prison forever? Because he wanted Humans to be soul food for the higher dimensional energy sucking Archons? If so, then why didn't the Creator and his Archangels and other Gods and Buddhas free Humanity from all these energy-sucking higher dimensional entities a long, long time ago? Because the Celestial Heaven took away Lucifer's power, didn't they?

Or was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he opposed this plan of using Humanity as Batteries of Energies for Higher Gods and Archons? If so then it makes sense for the Vatican, who are aligned with this idea of using Humans as food for higher entities, to cast Lucifer as the Devil as this would mean he wouldn't be able to raise an army of human revolutionaries who would throw off their chains and shackles.

You do the Math.

P.S. Now if the second scenario is true, this would mean that the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas agree to this plan of using Humanity as soul food for higher- dimensional parasites.

As part of my official confirmation, I was told that this would be a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship.

The Archons was suppose to help Humanity evolve as the Archons themselves evolve.

If the second scenario is true, I am not saying that this Plan approved by the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas and other Gods is evil.

I am just saying that it is time this Plan gets thrown out of the window.

seigiarchon,

I don't know where you are getting your "reading material" from, but it is obviously not from the Scriptures. Neither one of your scenarios, regarding the expulsion of Lucifer, (or Satan), from Heaven are correct.

Lucifer, quite simply, chose to self-exalt himself to the same "level as God". This, alone, was more than enough to get himself booted from the previous lofty position he formerly held.

Isaiah 14:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Love and Peace,.....kreagle

Yes you are right. I did not read from the scriptures nor do I intend to.

As I said before, blind obedience to the word of man.. not the word of God.. is what lead humanity to its present imprisonment today.

[seigiarchon]

Alice Bailey's publishing company was called "Lucis" Publishing Company. Taken from the name "Lucifer". The works that were published were all dedicated to true enlightenment based on the beliefs of the Theosophical Society that Madam Blavatsky was a part of. I think they thought of Lucifer as a bringer of enlightenment, which would fit perfectly with the name meaning bringer of light.
I always had trouble, too, with the portrayal of the christian church of Lucifer and the meaning of his name. The fact that he was one of God's very best Angels with the name that means "bringer of light" and then one day he just "rebels"..? I was never clear on what he was rebelling from. And the reaction of "God" is to banish him to a lake of fire forever more, and to have an eternal battle with him over our souls... doesnt make sense on so many levels.
And for some reason when I think of this topic of Lucifer being the rebel angel, I have in the forefront of my mind He-man and She-Ra in the land of Eternia. As a kid watching that cartoon, I never understood why the good characters were called the rebels and they got their powers from the "Castle Grey Skull" and if you look at their features, they are obviously from the Aryan race. He-Man looks dead up like a German body builder. She-Ra (who was He-Man's twin sister) looks like Maria from the Vril society. There are so many references in that show to magic and sorcery and the eternal struggle between "good" and "evil". And the terms "good" and "evil" are simply a point of view. We see aliens killing humans as evil obviously because we are humans and we dont want to be killed. But how many people think its evil when you buy a kid a "Happy Meal" for dinner that has tortured and mutilated chicken or cow in it, not to mention the cancer causing ingredients in the fry grease and so on in it? Not many. Most people skip up into McDonald with big smiles on their faces and treat their kids to a "Happy Meal" because our society conditions them to think like this, or I should say, "not to think" like this. Maybe Lucifer was trying to enlighten people to see the horrors of the establishment (like McDonalds) and the governing establishment (God) didnt want the people to see things that way, so Lucifer became the Rebel. If you think about the the story of the garden of Eden, eating the apple is a metaphor for seeing the truth... and thats all the serpent wanted for Adam and eve... for them to see the truth of their situation instead of walking around in some nieve haze just doing what they are told. I never saw what was wrong with that... All these stories point towards a mean and slave driving God and a couragously brave and loving Angel "rebel" named Lucifer.
But I dont know... im just going off of stories. I dont know what really happened, or who the real players are. I just know the stories are twisted. They are meant to makes you think one way, but if you put any real logic to them, you have to consider that the ones telling the stories either need to eat an apple, or they are working for Skellitor :)
Maybe its just the dislexic in me, but when I read the world "evil" or "devil".. I first see the word "live" or "lived".
To live, we all must feed... feeding becomes evil when you are the one being eaten. (That is a deeply profound and simple statment that I would like you to consider.)
I have no conclusions.. these are just things to consider.

Have you ever thought that it was neither God nor Lucifer who were evil but it was men who distorted the image of God and Lucifer as well as set up the illusion that there is conflict between God and Lucifer?

If Lucifer was indeed God's First Angel.. doesn't it suggest that God and Lucifer are working together hand in hand to evolve mankind to the best of their ability instead of them working against each other?

It is just like the politics of kings and emperors in the past. The King is wise and good and the First Prince is wise and good and the only way their enemies can tear them apart is to .. convince others that The King and The First Prince are at war with each other.

I would think that there are some demons and demon worshippers in the world who are afraid of God but less afraid of Lucifer. Which is why they would dare to cast mud on Lucifer's name but not God's.

My 2 cents.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Lucifer, very misunderstood. Pointing out the time, place or particulars is relatively impossible and wholly unimportant to the big picture. That being the creation of the current form of humanity, and perhaps some precedents.

When the beings that engineered us were presenting us to their counterparts, Lucifer saw how very flawed we were and mocked them and us. A quick look around, at the world and its' inhabitants, the masses, will prove him basically correct. At present he does stand vindicated for his astute, if cynical, observation. His observation was the flawed nature of his peers and their creation. This is a very simplified form. Kept simple because proof will be in short supply. Less detail will prove closer to the truth.

In this forum we discuss the asleep ones. This was forseen by Lucifer. We, the awake ones, argue amongst ourselves over the pettiest things and divide ourselves with these behaviors. Lucifer saw that too. He saw how very pathetic we are and how we will sell our souls for a little comfort and security, to whoever offers it, or the best deal. He offers deals that are clearly in our own worst interests that appeal to our lower nature and fears and so many of us gobble them up. His peers and competitors offer similar deals, with generally gentler slippery slopes. Lucifer purposely offers what should be obviously lower nature deals. This is on purpose. He has a point to prove, that we humans are despicable creations. He gets a lot reasons to support his case. Millions, if not billions, of them. Is he evil? Certainly no more than any of the 'gods' who are part of our creation and their Earthly lackeys.

He is a proud one, to be sure, but more fair and open than many of his peers. Deals can be, and should be, declined. Courtesy, sympathy and taste will serve you well. You will be respected and left alone by him and those who work with him. Negative energetic output, or loosh, will still attract parasites and energy vampires to you and it is for us to learn to manage our emotions better and realize forgiveness will release us from karma and the anger 'loops' that go with it.

That so many people would rather watch TV rather than work on their energetic selves, use drugs habitually, or just be willfully ignorant, is why Lucifer still holds us, as a whole, in a disdainful manner. I fight with that same disdain myself, but find that I must bring and/or hold as much light as I can. It is a role I chose and my honor and integrity is tied up in that choice. I am after all, born of the flesh and have a special 'issue' with traitors.

The story of Gaia, is another aspect and outside the more focused nature of this discussion of Lucifer.

The bottom line is: Lucifer has a point to prove. He is supremely intelligent, and very proud. Any offers are always connected to proving his point. This includes higher knowledge, although he is certainly not the only source of it.

If a being can offer lower nature deals, he can offer higher nature deals as well.

Are you so enlightened that you can see the entire history of existence of the First Angel's?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


It would appear that he's proven this point many times over. So why beat a dead horse? Why does he stick around?


Lucifer, very misunderstood. Pointing out the time, place or particulars is relatively impossible and wholly unimportant to the big picture. That being the creation of the current form of humanity, and perhaps some precedents.

When the beings that engineered us were presenting us to their counterparts, Lucifer saw how very flawed we were and mocked them and us. A quick look around, at the world and its' inhabitants, the masses, will prove him basically correct. At present he does stand vindicated for his astute, if cynical, observation. His observation was the flawed nature of his peers and their creation. This is a very simplified form. Kept simple because proof will be in short supply. Less detail will prove closer to the truth.

In this forum we discuss the asleep ones. This was forseen by Lucifer. We, the awake ones, argue amongst ourselves over the pettiest things and divide ourselves with these behaviors. Lucifer saw that too. He saw how very pathetic we are and how we will sell our souls for a little comfort and security, to whoever offers it, or the best deal. He offers deals that are clearly in our own worst interests that appeal to our lower nature and fears and so many of us gobble them up. His peers and competitors offer similar deals, with generally gentler slippery slopes. Lucifer purposely offers what should be obviously lower nature deals. This is on purpose. He has a point to prove, that we humans are despicable creations. He gets a lot reasons to support his case. Millions, if not billions, of them. Is he evil? Certainly no more than any of the 'gods' who are part of our creation and their Earthly lackeys.

He is a proud one, to be sure, but more fair and open than many of his peers. Deals can be, and should be, declined. Courtesy, sympathy and taste will serve you well. You will be respected and left alone by him and those who work with him. Negative energetic output, or loosh, will still attract parasites and energy vampires to you and it is for us to learn to manage our emotions better and realize forgiveness will release us from karma and the angers 'loops' that go with it.

That so many people would rather watch TV rather than work on their energetic selves, use drugs habitually, or just be willfully ignorant, is why Lucifer still holds us, as a whole, in a disdainful manner. I fight with that same disdain myself, but find that I must bring and/or hold as much light as I can. It is a role I chose and my honor and integrity is tied up in that choice. I am after all, born of the flesh and have a special 'issue' with traitors.

The story of Gaia, is another aspect and outside the more focused nature of this discussion of Lucifer.

What makes you so sure he is sticking around? or he wants to stick around?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


As to bets...the scenario sounds a bit like that of the Book of Job, i.e., God and the devil essentially making a bet about whether a man (in this case, all of mankind) can be righteous...

I think the events of the past 3 years have proved the validity of this bet.

[seigiarchon]

Well, no offense to the angel of light, but I hope he eats his hat.

;)

I understand your flipping a metaphor. I want us to win this one also. I'm not so sure Lucifer wants us to lose, but he is playing to win. Anything else would not show the truth for what is is. Do we suck or are we worthy? This is all in our hands. May they prove to be capable ones. It is why the paradigm shift before us is so important. Some very brave men and women could help strip away much of the corruption on this planet. Will it be like cleaning a kids room or will we all grow up and tend to keeping our rooms/houses in order?

It is what happens after the cleansing, (I pray it happens soon) that will ultimately matter. After the sh!t is gone will we just sh!t all over everything again?

So, as you can see, that bet is still pending. Bill could end up eating his hat and Lucifer could still win his bet.

This is all up to us.

Some very brave men and women?

The responsibility for saving this planet falls to every man, woman and child and not just on some people.

To save this planet, to evolve this planet, man has to be ready to lose every member of his family, every cent of his wealth and even his own life if needs be but man is too selfish, too greedy and too fearful to do that.

Why do you think the mass arrests have not started yet?

Because everyone is afraid of starting a war where they will lose everything.

Because Man forgot that Evolution is a prize much higher than Material Happiness itself.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Lucifer was a beautiful shining arch angel and he was jealous of God and wanted to have as much power as God so he started a war and was too proud to back down. This is why they say pride comes before a fall. Lucifer was cast out of heaven and all the angels who were on his side were cast out too. He is very beautiful and this is why a lot of people wanted to follow him for his charm and beauty. Also in the end times he is meant to come back pretending to be the second coming of Christ and try to fool people into following him. People wouldn't follow a ugly demonic looking creature :)

SO where do you get your conjectures from?

Blind fealty to the scriptures again?

¤=[Post Update]=¤



As to bets...the scenario sounds a bit like that of the Book of Job, i.e., God and the devil essentially making a bet about whether a man (in this case, all of mankind) can be righteous...

The Book of Job is unique in the OT. It almost doesn't fit. I find the most useful part of it in the beginning, when the lord is having a meeting and Satan is casually walking about the place. No one is alarmed or asks, "How did he get in here?" God basically greets him as a friend he has not seen in some time, the back ans forth between them is telling also. Very casual. Furthermore, the leeway the God gives Satan, certainly show little empathy for Job. Very typical of the gods to view humans as things to be toyed with, property to discuss the merits of. Like the two guys in trading places betting a dollar over what would happen if they switched to peoples' lives around.

The Book of Job is priceless for these insights. The rest of it tends to just support a narrative.

Maybe the Gods view humans as things to be toyed with because the humans look at themselves as things to be toyed with by the Gods.

If humans start thinking they are Gods instead of the petty humans which they are, maybe the Gods will show humans more respect.

[seigiarchon]

Thanks OP for this topic. It has always baffled me as to why the light-bringer, the morning star, is the bad guy.

I strongly distrust both the Catholic and Christian churches. The former has promoted the suppression of meaningful societal change and pedophilia (you can't avoid it, it's there) while the latter has promoted a return to the fictional safety of the 1950s where you couldn't say or do certain things.

Both when combined with Islam, especially the radical sects, are a pox upon humanity that must be eradicated.

I'm inclined to believe that the Catholics and Christians stand on the side of evil, not the "light-bringer"!

There are some Esoteric Christian churches who still teach the true teachings of Jesus in the real world. There are also some Esoteric Muslim sects who teach the true teachings of Enlightenment.

So it would be unwise to say that all churches and all Muslims are evil brainwashed fanatics.

But after the destruction of the cathars, essenes, templars over the last 2 thousand years, the teachers of enlightenment are now hiding underground?

Why is that?

Because Humans would rather live like a slave than die to defend evolution.

[Little Ishta]

This thread got me thinking. Maybe Jesus is Lucifer and Lucifer is Jesus... like yin and yang, light and dark. Isn't it about balance? Really makes you wonder.

[seigiarchon]

I was talking to a 16th degree Freemason at a shopping centre the other day, as they often raise money for certain charities, and I sat down to ask this guy some questions.

He started talking about the 'Supreme Being" so I questioned him if he knew exactly what that was, in reference to Freemasonry.

The reason being, is that this guy had not read any of Albert Pike's books, not even Morals and Dogma. I have both that book and also The Magnum Opus, so I told him that in Morals and Dogma, Pike describes the Supreme Being as "Lucifer".

He goes on to say: Lucifer the Light Bearer, Lucifer the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the light.

Here's the passage from the book. I should mention that I have no intention of aligning myself with anything evil or dark, I am merely adding info to the thread to assist the discussion.

Straker

There are many Creator Gods who bear the Light, not just the Supreme Creator or Lucifer.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I'm mildly surprised that no one has pointed out to the OP that Lucifer is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It was some famous clergyman (Luther, maybe?) who had a particular distaste for some associate of his by the name of Lucifer, so he started making comparisons and here we are, hundreds of years later, thinking the "devil" is named Lucifer. It's not entirely clear, the passage in Isaiah, that the "Morning Star" is the "devil", either. Satan was a generic hebrew/aramaic word meaning "the accuser" until the Church needed a boogey man, hundreds of years after Christ walked the earth. So much speculation repeated through the generations becomes truth to the unwary.

Bravo! :cool:

[Straker]

I'm mildly surprised that no one has pointed out to the OP that Lucifer is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It was some famous clergyman (Luther, maybe?) who had a particular distaste for some associate of his by the name of Lucifer, so he started making comparisons and here we are, hundreds of years later, thinking the "devil" is named Lucifer. It's not entirely clear, the passage in Isaiah, that the "Morning Star" is the "devil", either. Satan was a generic hebrew/aramaic word meaning "the accuser" until the Church needed a boogey man, hundreds of years after Christ walked the earth. So much speculation repeated through the generations becomes truth to the unwary.

Doesn't Pike pre-date Luthur?

Straker

[kreagle]

I know for a fact that there are higher dimensional entities out there who are using Humans as batteries of energies. This was part of my official confirmation. And I am sure most of you know about such parasitic Archons as well.

Lucifer was cast out of Heaven but what was he cast out for?

Was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he wanted Humans to be in Prison forever? Because he wanted Humans to be soul food for the higher dimensional energy sucking Archons? If so, then why didn't the Creator and his Archangels and other Gods and Buddhas free Humanity from all these energy-sucking higher dimensional entities a long, long time ago? Because the Celestial Heaven took away Lucifer's power, didn't they?

Or was Lucifer cast out of Heaven because he opposed this plan of using Humanity as Batteries of Energies for Higher Gods and Archons? If so then it makes sense for the Vatican, who are aligned with this idea of using Humans as food for higher entities, to cast Lucifer as the Devil as this would mean he wouldn't be able to raise an army of human revolutionaries who would throw off their chains and shackles.

You do the Math.

P.S. Now if the second scenario is true, this would mean that the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas agree to this plan of using Humanity as soul food for higher- dimensional parasites.

As part of my official confirmation, I was told that this would be a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship.

The Archons was suppose to help Humanity evolve as the Archons themselves evolve.

If the second scenario is true, I am not saying that this Plan approved by the Universal Creator and the Archangels and the Buddhas and other Gods is evil.

I am just saying that it is time this Plan gets thrown out of the window.

seigiarchon,

I don't know where you are getting your "reading material" from, but it is obviously not from the Scriptures. Neither one of your scenarios, regarding the expulsion of Lucifer, (or Satan), from Heaven are correct.

Lucifer, quite simply, chose to self-exalt himself to the same "level as God". This, alone, was more than enough to get himself booted from the previous lofty position he formerly held.

Isaiah 14:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Love and Peace,.....kreagle

Yes you are right. I did not read from the scriptures nor do I intend to.

As I said before, blind obedience to the word of man.. not the word of God.. is what lead humanity to its present imprisonment today.

siegiarchon,

The problem with your view on the Scriptures indicates that you heavily attribute the contents of It as the "word of man",.....and very little of It as the "Word of God".

Surely you must agree, and recognize, that "any" such "Word of God" would inevitably have to be "penned" by a "human" hand somewhere along the line,.....wouldn't it?

The obvious answer to this question would undeniably be......yes......, but just not any ordinary "human hand"!!

2 Peter 1:20-21
King James Version (KJV)

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

(note)

Let me say here that I can relate to your feelings of disdain/mistrust of the Vatican/Catholic Church and the horrific damage that's been inflicted by Her founders and various leaders.

With Her running track record of the "events of the Council of Nicaea, 325 AD", the undermining and rewriting of "original Church Doctrine", changing water baptism from "in the name of Jesus Christ", (practised and implemented "exclusively" by the "original" Church), to the version so commonly "misunderstood and misused" by Catholics, and others today, in "His titles" of "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost". Along with "this" came the concept, or doctrine of the Trinity. Any Orthodox Jew, today, worth his salt, would tell you up front that there is but "One God", and that the concept of "three persons,....or deity's" is completely scandalous!

I could go on and on about several other "discretion's" directly connected to the Vatican/Catholic church,.....but I think you should get the picture.

(point to ponder)

Don't be guilty of "throwing the baby out with the bath water"!!!!

God's Word has been drug through some pretty nasty "bath water",....but God has seen to it that His Word remains "clean and pure" to those with a "hungry and honest" heart.

Love and Peace,......kreagle

[The Truth Is In There]

This thread got me thinking. Maybe Jesus is Lucifer and Lucifer is Jesus... like yin and yang, light and dark. Isn't it about balance? Really makes you wonder.

not exactly, but you're right about balance. it's not that one is yin and the other is yang but both are yin and yang at the same time.

i noticed that most of the others who posted here seem to believe that lucifer is a certain being, either physical or non-physical, whatever. that's much too limiting.

i suggest taking a look into astrotheology. there it will become clear that the bible and ALL other creation stories are allegories for one and the same thing. the fall of lucifer and the fall of man are nothing more and nothing less than the entrance of the spirit into the physical human body with all its limitations, and jesus as well as all other enlightened beings as well as lucifer (before the fall, if you will) symbolize a human being with the full powers of the spirit while still in the physical body. this is the goal of enlightenment and the goal of ALL mystical teachings.

that's the meaning of jesus or the son (sun) in the bible and lucifer in the masonic tradition. the negative connotation lucifer was given by the catholic church was simply to keep the population in ignorance and fear. is is that simple.

[kreagle]

I'm mildly surprised that no one has pointed out to the OP that Lucifer is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It was some famous clergyman (Luther, maybe?) who had a particular distaste for some associate of his by the name of Lucifer, so he started making comparisons and here we are, hundreds of years later, thinking the "devil" is named Lucifer. It's not entirely clear, the passage in Isaiah, that the "Morning Star" is the "devil", either. Satan was a generic hebrew/aramaic word meaning "the accuser" until the Church needed a boogey man, hundreds of years after Christ walked the earth. So much speculation repeated through the generations becomes truth to the unwary.

Isaiah 14:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

I think you might like to take a closer look at the Scriptures. There's a lot more in there that "escapes the attention" of too many people.

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[PurpleLama]

I'm mildly surprised that no one has pointed out to the OP that Lucifer is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It was some famous clergyman (Luther, maybe?) who had a particular distaste for some associate of his by the name of Lucifer, so he started making comparisons and here we are, hundreds of years later, thinking the "devil" is named Lucifer. It's not entirely clear, the passage in Isaiah, that the "Morning Star" is the "devil", either. Satan was a generic hebrew/aramaic word meaning "the accuser" until the Church needed a boogey man, hundreds of years after Christ walked the earth. So much speculation repeated through the generations becomes truth to the unwary.

Isaiah 14:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

I think you might like to take a closer look at the Scriptures. There's a lot more in there that "escapes the attention" of too many people.

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

Sorry, none of the translations I use regularly contain that appellation. The KJV is a beautiful, if inaccurate, rendering of the text. A little look, and the original term of your Lucifer there appears to be Heilel Ben Shachar translating as Bright One of the Dawn.

[Rantaak]

I'm inclined to believe that the Catholics and Christians stand on the side of evil, not the "light-bringer"!


you make a good commy comrade


communism is coming to the US and Europe

and is already here

as seen by the policies of our leadership


the commies are coming by invitation from Capitol


and there are no Christians in a commy world

we will have to fight convert or die

:pound:

For the love of a world without theocracy or moral imposition, all hail Lucifer, our brother divine.