Personal Protection Ruger SR 22

[Unified Serenity]

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr22Pistol/images/3600.jpg



Self protection is a very personal decision. Sadly, for some of you that has been made for you by your governments. I happen to live in the gun toting US of A and the sale of personal firearm protection has gone through the roof! The people sense tough times are coming. There are too many stories of people being attacked by rogue mobs, thus the choice of many is to obtain a firearm.


I was blessed with a father who encouraged his two girls to learn how to properly use a firearm. I would go to the gun range on weekends and dad would teach us all the tips and tricks of shooting. Of course, he taught us safety first and the fact that guns are very dangerous. One of the first lessons I learned was that you never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them, and there is no such thing as an unloaded weapon! My father was one of the best marksmen in the Unites States Navy, and therefore he taught us well. I have recently been thinking about various theories on pistol caliber and ammunition that would offer the most protection.


It has been my thinking for a very long time that the .44 caliber is the best take down weapon based on police statistics of one shot take down results. After that, the second best in my book was a .45, and the 1911 Colt .45 has always been one of my most favorite weapons. With that said though, those are high power pistols and no weapon will help you if you are not comfortable shooting it and learn how to control it. No weapon will help you if you don't want to carry it either. I have tended to not like the 9 mm because it tends to just go through the target and it takes more rounds to take them down while a good .380 round can do incredible damage and stop the bad guys. With all that being said, let me repeat that no weapon will be of any use to you if you are not comfortable shooting it or carrying it.


I have had a change of heart recently regarding carrying a weapon and what caliber to carry. I would have laughed in your face not long ago if you had suggested that I look into getting a .22 pistol. I mean, come on, a .22? Then, I watched Molotov's video and he was right. If you shoot someone they will bleed and hurt and 999 people out of a 1000 are going to stop attacking you at that point. If you shoot them and they do not stop, you have to be able to reacquire your target and shoot them some more. Now, granted if you spend a lot of time on the firing range then that is easier to do, but a .22 kickback is a whole lot less than a .45, .44, or 357. Oh, those rounds will put a football sized hole in someone, but first you have to shoot them, and second if you miss you gotta try again, while the .22 has almost zero kickback and you can put in a tight group easily and if necessary you can do a head shot if absolutely necessary because of how easy it is to control.


One of the reasons people do not shoot their weapon is the cost of the ammunition. It keeps going up, and therefore people go out once or twice a year if lucky and shoot their pistol. That does not make for a very experienced shooter and therefore reaction times are slower should you need to draw your weapon. Some people will get a .22 just to practice with, but if you are in trouble and need to shoot that weapon, then it's imperative that you are comfortable with the kickback and getting back on target!


With all that in mind, I think there are some huge benefits to buying a good quality .22 semi-automatic handgun. The ammo is very cheap, you will have fun shooting it, and will also encourage your children to learn firearm safety and get comfortable with a quality weapon. I think my favorite right now is the Ruger SR .22 and I will post some videos below to let you get an idea of how great this weapon is. I was torn between the Walther P22 and the Ruger SR.22 won out for several reasons.


1. It's 2 ounces heavier than the Walther P22 which decreases kickback
2. It's barrel is a fixed barrel and it's very thick, it will last
3. De-cocking mechanism which the Walther P22 does not have and is a hazard when de-cocking the pistol.
4. 3 dot reversible sights.
5. 2 clips
6. extra grip for those with large hands
7. few parts to breakdown and clean the weapon
8. The Ruger SR .22 appears to eat almost any ammo with zero problems
I think there is little reason to go out in public unarmed anymore. If you are going to get a CCW, then learn the tools needed to do so safely and effectively. The second video is an excellent one to understand how to do CCW and not be uncomfortable. Remember, if you are uncomfortable you won't carry, and if you won't carry then you are not protecting yourself or your family. I respect the police and worked with them for years. I did not know a single rogue cop. Every officer I knew would give their life to protect the citizens, but the sad fact is that most police show up after the crime to gather evidence and write reports. They cannot be there for you most of the time, and you are responsible for your life and the life of your family. Learn how to do it safely, skillfully, and effectively!



Ruger SR 22


Great video showing the capability of the .22
ps_AIciGnng


Go to WND to see Molotov Mitchell explain why use a .22 or .380 (Great video)


http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/for-self-defense-22-beats-45/


Concealed Carry in the Waistband
7gjUknHqvGY

[wynderer]

gun sales jumped when BushII stole his first term

i gave it a lot of thought myself & decided No -- but then i don't have children to protect in my home



http://www.ruger.com/products/sr22Pistol/images/3600.jpg



Self protection is a very personal decision. Sadly, for some of you that has been made for you by your governments. I happen to live in the gun toting US of A and the sale of personal firearm protection has gone through the roof! The people sense tough times are coming. There are too many stories of people being attacked by rogue mobs, thus the choice of many is to obtain a firearm.


I was blessed with a father who encouraged his two girls to learn how to properly use a firearm. I would go to the gun range on weekends and dad would teach us all the tips and tricks of shooting. Of course, he taught us safety first and the fact that guns are very dangerous. One of the first lessons I learned was that you never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them, and there is no such thing as an unloaded weapon! My father was one of the best marksmen in the Unites States Navy, and therefore he taught us well. I have recently been thinking about various theories on pistol caliber and ammunition that would offer the most protection.


It has been my thinking for a very long time that the .44 caliber is the best take down weapon based on police statistics of one shot take down results. After that, the second best in my book was a .45, and the 1911 Colt .45 has always been one of my most favorite weapons. With that said though, those are high power pistols and no weapon will help you if you are not comfortable shooting it and learn how to control it. No weapon will help you if you don't want to carry it either. I have tended to not like the 9 mm because it tends to just go through the target and it takes more rounds to take them down while a good .380 round can do incredible damage and stop the bad guys. With all that being said, let me repeat that no weapon will be of any use to you if you are not comfortable shooting it or carrying it.


I have had a change of heart recently regarding carrying a weapon and what caliber to carry. I would have laughed in your face not long ago if you had suggested that I look into getting a .22 pistol. I mean, come on, a .22? Then, I watched Molotov's video and he was right. If you shoot someone they will bleed and hurt and 999 people out of a 1000 are going to stop attacking you at that point. If you shoot them and they do not stop, you have to be able to reacquire your target and shoot them some more. Now, granted if you spend a lot of time on the firing range then that is easier to do, but a .22 kickback is a whole lot less than a .45, .44, or 357. Oh, those rounds will put a football sized hole in someone, but first you have to shoot them, and second if you miss you gotta try again, while the .22 has almost zero kickback and you can put in a tight group easily and if necessary you can do a head shot if absolutely necessary because of how easy it is to control.


One of the reasons people do not shoot their weapon is the cost of the ammunition. It keeps going up, and therefore people go out once or twice a year if lucky and shoot their pistol. That does not make for a very experienced shooter and therefore reaction times are slower should you need to draw your weapon. Some people will get a .22 just to practice with, but if you are in trouble and need to shoot that weapon, then it's imperative that you are comfortable with the kickback and getting back on target!


With all that in mind, I think there are some huge benefits to buying a good quality .22 semi-automatic handgun. The ammo is very cheap, you will have fun shooting it, and will also encourage your children to learn firearm safety and get comfortable with a quality weapon. I think my favorite right now is the Ruger SR .22 and I will post some videos below to let you get an idea of how great this weapon is. I was torn between the Walther P22 and the Ruger SR.22 won out for several reasons.


1. It's 2 ounces heavier than the Walther P22 which decreases kickback
2. It's barrel is a fixed barrel and it's very thick, it will last
3. De-cocking mechanism which the Walther P22 does not have and is a hazard when de-cocking the pistol.
4. 3 dot reversible sights.
5. 2 clips
6. extra grip for those with large hands
7. few parts to breakdown and clean the weapon
8. The Ruger SR .22 appears to eat almost any ammo with zero problems
I think there is little reason to go out in public unarmed anymore. If you are going to get a CCW, then learn the tools needed to do so safely and effectively. The second video is an excellent one to understand how to do CCW and not be uncomfortable. Remember, if you are uncomfortable you won't carry, and if you won't carry then you are not protecting yourself or your family. I respect the police and worked with them for years. I did not know a single rogue cop. Every officer I knew would give their life to protect the citizens, but the sad fact is that most police show up after the crime to gather evidence and write reports. They cannot be there for you most of the time, and you are responsible for your life and the life of your family. Learn how to do it safely, skillfully, and effectively!



Ruger SR 22


Great video showing the capability of the .22
ps_AIciGnng


Go to WND to see Molotov Mitchell explain why use a .22 or .380 (Great video)


http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/for-self-defense-22-beats-45/


Concealed Carry in the Waistband
7gjUknHqvGY

[GoodETxSG]

I have one... Great pistol!

[13th Warrior]

Hornady has just introduced .22 mag. critical defense rounds.

http://http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Weapons/News/2011/02/09/Hornady-Brings-Critical-Defense-Ammo-in-22-WMR.aspx

I like a 22 long rifle hand gun for training/practice but, i'd further recommend a Taurus Judge pistol in .410/45 Colt for the novice handgun handler for self protection.

5kIuI3heYMQ

qRlry5KH6I0

[Unified Serenity]

I saw this pistol on Top shot, it looked very impressive and the rounds have high penetration. I've never fired one, but they commented that it's recoil was not bad.


http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0004mb.png


Police departments are not too happy with them due to the ability to penetrate vests. It's a very popular pistol with many military around the world. I imagine ammo is not cheap!


The FN Five-seveN® single-action autoloading pistol fires the low-recoil 5.7x28mm cartridge making it ideal for personal protection, target shooting or NRA Tactical Police Competition. It features a textured, ergonomic polymer frame with checkered panels for enhanced grip. The polymer slide cover helps reduce weight and the operating controls allow for easy access with a reversible magazine release and ambidextrous manual safety levers. The barrel is hammer-forged and chrome-lined for enhanced accuracy and extended service life. Models are available with matte black, olive drab green or Flat Dark Earth frames with a choice of adjustable target sights or fixed three-dot combat sights.

[13th Warrior]

I saw this pistol on Top shot, it looked very impressive and the rounds have high penetration. I've never fired one, but they commented that it's recoil was not bad.


http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0004mb.png


Police departments are not too happy with them due to the ability to penetrate vests. It's a very popular pistol with many military around the world. I imagine ammo is not cheap!


The FN Five-seveN® single-action autoloading pistol fires the low-recoil 5.7x28mm cartridge making it ideal for personal protection, target shooting or NRA Tactical Police Competition. It features a textured, ergonomic polymer frame with checkered panels for enhanced grip. The polymer slide cover helps reduce weight and the operating controls allow for easy access with a reversible magazine release and ambidextrous manual safety levers. The barrel is hammer-forged and chrome-lined for enhanced accuracy and extended service life. Models are available with matte black, olive drab green or Flat Dark Earth frames with a choice of adjustable target sights or fixed three-dot combat sights.



The Five Seven as i understand it; was designed as an light armor piercing round. The armor piercing tipped cartridges are not supposed to be on the market for non agency use.

The HN Five Seven is a great hand gun but, it also comes with a great price tag (1000+ US dollars).

You can also get the P90 weapons system chambered in the 5.7.

[13th Warrior]

I like this guys videos; good solid info and no guff.

Perhaps the most effective way to hold the Taurus Judge to control muzzle jump:

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Self defense effective range at 15 yards with PDX rounds:

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Bird shot effective range; close range only:

GPGkf-7j8XA

[GoodETxSG]

I have one of the Judge 410/45 pistols too, I like to keep that one close by where my wife can use it. It is nice in an emergency for her w/a 410 shell in it, but not one she would fire for fun. It jups around a lot!

[Unified Serenity]

Great vids, thanks

[13th Warrior]

How to defend an unexpected attack:

nqQAgtNMwDY


At close range, focus on the front sight:

bp-UDkhZulw

[GoodETxSG]

Check out Heizer Defense's new Double Tap. It is like a Derringer on steroids! Great backup weapon or C&C for a male or female... I do not have one yet but my friend with the FFL License is ordering me one.

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[Ron Mauer Sr]

Concealed carry for the ladies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8r6CY5UZyw

[meat suit]

this is where most europeans like me just go.....wtf...:noidea: are you guys actually prepared to point any of the above at anonther human being?
I suppose if you all got the same virus, you all got to have the same immune system.... we just havent got that virus over here.... tfft

[varuna]

..I agree meat suit, I read this thread and thought whaaat! A different mindset I guess. People have the right to do what's best for them and I wouldnt take that away from them. We are not in the same position as those in the USA - yet..But it wouldnt enter my head to arm myself. Maybe that's naieve? I'm sitting writing this in a pretty little village, looking out over the village green, people walk by and say hi, offers are made by neighbours to deliver milk, bread if you are poorly, my neighbour cuts the grass for a lady who has recently lost her husband . A Police officer comes by and chats over the fence about this and that...I could go on. I'm not trying to say it's perfect in the UK, there are lots of things that have gone badly wrong, but there are little 'pockets of goodness' to be found.

Anyway, have a lovely day everyone and all good wishes to our brothers and sisters in the USA.

[MargueriteBee]

I am so glad in my world I have no need for a gun!

[markpierre]

Wowe, I wasn't expecting to get that kind of training today. Brilliant practical post on a subject that's pretty touchy.

It's an interesting question; Under what circumstances would I be willing to shoot someone? And find a dispassionate answer.

But you took the charge out of the fear of the question nicely. I think that was really solid advice. Shooting someone doesn't mean intending to kill them.

Of all the possible scenarios, a common and likely one would be that you never even have to pull the trigger. Pointing a gun implies that you're not going to be an easy victim.

Though you do have to be willing to shoot.

No, it's still not simple for me, but you helped me out a lot.

[Blueskywalking]

Remember to point away from face!



are you guys actually prepared to point any of the above at another human being?

Only if an "Matrix stooge" is pointing one at ME (or wife or child or dog or mate or neighbor or...) :)

[GoodETxSG]

It’s better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it. We Americans love our guns, that’s true. But how many times have we been invaded by a foreign countries Army? They would crap their pants if they were told they had to come here and take over. I think when we get to the point of the final E.U. collapse we will see lots of people over there changing their tune and wishing they had a musket handy.

We will have to wait just a little longer until it does finally collapse sadly to prove my point.

[Rogerc]

Hope that the SR is easier to strip than my old Ruger. If I took it completely down it was usually a trip to the gunsmith.

[sdv]

Very scary thread! You people actually like and carry guns? I echo the comment - WTF :eek: (I know that you can get a license and buy a gun where I live, but I have never ever seen a shop that sells guns, or even ammunition - never, anywhere!)
Interesting fact though is that the nation with the most guns per person is Switzerland. It also has one of the lowest murder rates, per person, in the world.
The nation with the highest murder rate per person is USA (although I suspect that South Africa is giving the USA a lot of competition for first place on the list).

My irrelevant conclusion: I would much rather have a Swiss point a gun at me than an American!

[Mad Hatter]

Hmm... I'm from one of the aforementioned countries where the guberment made the decision for us and unfortunately needed our very own false flag effort to make it so thus arranged to kill a lot of people in a place known as Port Arthur.

Pity really as now only the criminals have guns, uniformed or otherwise. Despite propaganda to the contrary the murder rate has since gone up with the preferred methodology being blade based.

[Unified Serenity]

Hope that the SR is easier to strip than my old Ruger. If I took it completely down it was usually a trip to the gunsmith.

It's extremely easy to break down. It has a fixed barrel. So there is only a small clip to release the remove the slide and take out the spring and pin in it. Have you ever tried doing a cold 1911? sheesh

[Unified Serenity]

Back when Florida instituted the concealed carry permit the anti-gun lobby all talked about how there would be mass shoot outs happening because of all these people carrying guns on themselves. The facts are that those who do get a ccw permit do not commit violent crimes. I don't know the latest stats, but the last time I looked there had never been a felony committed by a person carrying a concealed weapon who was licensed to do so. Criminals do not care what laws are passed, they will carry and shoot people. All of the Universities until recently had a ban on any ccw on campus. Did that stop the student at Virginia Tech from killing 30 plus people and wounding some 25 others? No it didn't, but had there been someone on campus legally carrying a weapon they could have stopped him much sooner. There are lots of military veterans on campuses who are highly trained in shooting. I think it's ridiculous that more people are not armed.

We do not hear all the stories, but there are enough of them where mobs of people are attacking innocent people and the police don't even want to show up much less write a report. A handgun is a great equalizer for a 100 pound woman being attacked by a 250 pound man. I took martial arts. Those who say size doesn't matter are full of crap. Arm length, height, weight are great contributing factors in fending off an attack. Sure, if you are lucky like me and have a father who was in special forces and taught you how to disable an attacker ten different ways within 2 seconds then maybe you have a leg up, but most women are not so fortunate. Even with my knowledge, I would much rather not get into a physical altercation. I don't go looking for trouble, but I am not ignorant that society is disintegrating, we are about to enter a time of crisis and there will be violence in some areas. I will not be crying my eyes out because someone I love got killed because I was unwilling to arm myself given the writing on the wall. I am also planning on starting instruction classes soon so other women can protect themselves inside and outside of their homes.

[GlassSteagallfan]

Here is an interview with a DHS informant explaining what they think is about to happen....


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44716-DHS-Informant---We-Are-Preparing-For-Massive-Civil-War--&p=482070#post482070

[Rogerc]

Hope that the SR is easier to strip than my old Ruger. If I took it completely down it was usually a trip to the gunsmith.

It's extremely easy to break down. It has a fixed barrel. So there is only a small clip to release the remove the slide and take out the spring and pin in it. Have you ever tried doing a cold 1911? sheesh

Nice to know they've fixed it - mine was a bloody nightmare of a trigger mech.

[Rogerc]

Hmm... I'm from one of the aforementioned countries where the guberment made the decision for us and unfortunately needed our very own false flag effort to make it so thus arranged to kill a lot of people in a place known as Port Arthur.

Pity really as now only the criminals have guns, uniformed or otherwise. Despite propaganda to the contrary the murder rate has since gone up with the preferred methodology being blade based.

False Flag indeed - only two people in our history , (Australia), have been killed by licensed gun owners.

The upside is that I was able to sell my hated Ruger for twice what I paid for it in the 'gun buy back'. One guy sold an AK47 that had the barrel welded up.

[toad]

I have one of the Judge 410/45 pistols too, I like to keep that one close by where my wife can use it. It is nice in an emergency for her w/a 410 shell in it, but not one she would fire for fun. It jups around a lot!


I have a single shot break action 410/45 pistol, it is incredibly loud, makes for a good pdw.

http://img1.findthebest.com/sites/default/files/495/media/images/HK_MK23_Pistol_1.jpg
For me personally I went with a mark 23 it shoots a .45acp round, it is designed for the SOF, it is designed to be incredibly durable under harsh environments and to be highly accurate and very quiet. It uses a specially designed USP mechanism that reduces recoil forces by up to 30%. It is also capable of using a .45 +P or the .45 SUPER that ups the velocity to roughly 30-40%. Its a beautiful gun, and with a silencer it is incredibly quiet, for target shooting this is ideal for myself as I've already developed some minor tinnitus and shooting only makes it worse.

9Wt9R_GtQUA


We also have a nice .50 black powder italian made revolver, that sites with a few shots preloaded with non smokeless powder for maximum shock factor heh should someone think they want to break in and cause trouble.

[mojo]

looks like you striked a chord with this thread. And thanks for making me realize how versatile this weappon is.

[Flash]

One of the country with a quite low criminal and kililng rate is Canada. And no gun ownership is allowed except for hunters (legally of course). This kind of thinking about guns is very American.

I do wonder if it does not reflect the US PTB mentality of invading other countries with "big guns"? If not, explained to me please what is the difference between wanting to kill at home and wanting to kill abroad, all in the supposedly fine mind of protecting - oneself on one hand or the country on the other hand.

I just hope very much that if anything bad come to pass, you, US citizens, will remain below, south of our common border. You seem too violent for Canadian taste. lol:rolleyes:

[toad]

Owning weapons has nothing to do with having a desire to kill, thats like saying the only reason to have spray paint is for graffiti.

[UnrealDreams]

I have never owned a gun. I have fired a gun before in a controlled setting, and I have to admit it was quite fun. But, I have no reason to own a gun. I am never going to point a gun at another human being with the intent to kill, so it would be useless to me. Even the thought of pointing a gun at another human being brings me down spiritually.

Peace and love-
Jeff

[Flash]

Owning weapons has nothing to do with having a desire to kill, thats like saying the only reason to have spray paint is for graffiti.

your comparison with spray paint is litterally cute and somewhat correct. However, you can spay paint me anytime, I won't like it, but this is all. Hopefully, you won't shot me anytime. Gun and spray paint are not the same and do not carry the same thoughtforms. To me, owning a gun comes from eiither the desire to kill /harm or from fear to be killed/harmed, which is a death thought in either way. Except for those that use gun for true sport (the mind frame is not the same then).

To tell you the truth, US is a very violent society (just look at the number of jail and assaults) and when going there, I do often feel the need for protection. The whole thinking framework goes in this direction and it is difficult to see when we are soaked into it on a daily basis. I do not discredit such decision - carrying weapons - from US citizens.

However, it would be nice to think a bit further and see the overall cultural and thinking biaises towards fighting in all kind of ways. Because, that you want it or not, that you see it or not, this is a very typical American way of seeing the world - protecting from supposedly imminent attacks.

This cultural biais has been widely used to convince the American public to go to war, even when in fact the threats were non existent. And this form of thinking starts, or end, in a personal level.

I know that most Europeans in this forum will understand right away what I am talking about (the cultural biaises) as well as Canadians, while American won't. No more than Canadian or Europeans see their own biaises for example. A foreign eye does see it though (American for Europeans and Europeans for American for example). Having a stretch of imagination may help Americans here.

By the way, I wrote the post with my own Canadian biaises, namely conciliation of differences and peace talks, this is the Canadian reputation isn't it?

[Shamz]

I believe that One's destiny is written long time ago...even before one is born. That said - if someone is destined to die on a particular day/time - no matter what protection you have...you will perish.
So the unnecessary fear of dying - being killed by someone... and the faith that you can protect yourself with any gun -- is only good...if its not your time to go.
There are so many people...who survived WARS -- survived an airplane crash - survived bullet injury to head -- because its not yet their time to go.
And yet others..who died on dining table - eating their last meal( with food going to air pipe) - died in sleep - died for the fault of others.

So if you believe that these Guns and Pistols and all the security can save you... Yeah you betcha ( Sarcasm )
And Shame on people who says...they buy guns for hunting ... well that's murder too ( in one sense or other )

I am sorry for going out of topic.... But I do relate Guns with Death and killings

Love and Light

[mosquito]

.... I think there is little reason to go out in public unarmed anymore. ....

I'm speechless, really. To think there are people on our planet who aspire to the USA ......

Takes deep breath. Despite the shock and horror at seeing this information here, and despite my revulsion for the USA now being even deeper than before, I'd like to thank US for this post, because the information here is really valuable to those who feel the need to arm themselves. Should I ever find myself again living in such a society, I will bear this in mind. (I mean it, I'm not being sarcastic) ;)

I do feel though that you left out ONE important lesson your father gave you, (I may be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't teach you this), one I learned while living in South Africa. It's the lesson which follows that of never pointing a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them. It's a lesson which will answer those on this thread who seem to be in a state of denial over gun ownership. The lesson is this :

Never shoot someone unless you intend to kill them

Hoping, but increasingly desperately, that humanity can evolve from where we are right now .......

[Unified Serenity]

I believe that One's destiny is written long time ago...even before one is born. That said - if someone is destined to die on a particular day/time - no matter what protection you have...you will perish.
So the unnecessary fear of dying - being killed by someone... and the faith that you can protect yourself with any gun -- is only good...if its not your time to go.
There are so many people...who survived WARS -- survived an airplane crash - survived bullet injury to head -- because its not yet their time to go.
And yet others..who died on dining table - eating their last meal( with food going to air pipe) - died in sleep - died for the fault of others.

So if you believe that these Guns and Pistols and all the security can save you... Yeah you betcha ( Sarcasm )
And Shame on people who says...they buy guns for hunting ... well that's murder too ( in one sense or other )

I am sorry for going out of topic.... But I do relate Guns with Death and killings

Love and Light


Now, what if the criminal attempting to do harm to me, my family or friends is destined to die by a bullet from my weapon? Should I deny him that right?

[Unified Serenity]

I do feel though that you left out ONE important lesson your father gave you, (I may be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't teach you this), one I learned while living in South Africa. It's the lesson which follows that of never pointing a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them. It's a lesson which will answer those on this thread who seem to be in a state of denial over gun ownership. The lesson is this :

Never shoot someone unless you intend to kill them

Hoping, but increasingly desperately, that humanity can evolve from where we are right now .......

You are absolutely correct. I was taught that, and I was taught many other things that I did not put into my OP. I may have alluded to it though when I stated that one of the things a person has to think about first and foremost is can they in fact use a firearm to take another's life? If the answer is "NO", then they should never own a firearm because it will be used against them in the heat of battle.

I was taught there is no such thing as an unloaded weapon until you personally clear it and verify it is unloaded, and that you never point a weapon at anyone unless you feel the need to protect yourself to the point of possibly killing someone. I don't have to shoot to kill. I can choose to scare them off, to wound them and then if needed to kill them to stop the assault.

I believe gun control is hitting what you are aiming at. (Scuse the grammatical error it just doesnt sound right any other way..... ugh.. my english teachers would scalp me!

[Flash]

US, I am truly getting speechless as well. Usually your posts are more balanced imho. This seems to me full fledge paranoia which the United States has subscribed to almost entirely. We are here on an international forum and all Amreican are talking about is killing others.... this is truly going the deep end. And you, American, do not, absolutely do not see the total biais you are caught in as a nation. A powerful nation that became extremely dangerous for the rest of the planet.

You know US, it is this kind of thinking that has allowed PTB to exist. Somewhat the American psyche supports it.

It took generations to come out of killing mentality and two terrible world wars. The gains were great in terms or peace but fragile. We are now loosing the gains it seems and going backward. Do you see a little what is the mentality being carried around on this thread. Certainly not cooperation for survival or collaboration against brute force. This thread IS about brute force itself. It is all over this thread.

Don't be mistaken. I did have to protect my life and knew i would kill without hesitation for this. But, because arms and kililing are not in my mind frame, my basic cultural bias, I searched for other issues, ways that I could negotiate intelligently my protection or escape. That was my first thinking: how to outwit them. And it succeeded. No killing was necessary.

I do not understand the mentality that pushes one to think in terms of killing right from the start. Human are much more powerful than this lkind of thinking.

[Unified Serenity]

US, I am truly getting speechless as well. Usually your posts are more balanced imho. This seems to me full fledge paranoia which the United States has subscribed to almost entirely. We are here on an international forum and all Amreican are talking about is killing others.... this is truly going the deep end. And you, American, do not, absolutely do not see the total biais you are caught in as a nation. A powerful nation that became extremely dangerous for the rest of the planet.

You know US, it is this kind of thinking that has allowed PTB to exist. Somewhat the American psyche supports it.

It took generations to come out of killing mentality and two terrible world wars. The gains were great in terms or peace but fragile. We are now loosing the gains it seems and going backward. Do you see a little what is the mentality being carried around on this thread. Certainly not cooperation for survival or collaboration against brute force. This thread IS about brute force itself. It is all over this thread.

Don't be mistaken. I did have to protect my life and knew i would kill without hesitation for this. But, because arms and kililing are not in my mind frame, my basic cultural bias, I searched for other issues, ways that I could negotiate intelligently my protection or escape. That was my first thinking: how to outwit them. And it succeeded. No killing was necessary.

I do not understand the mentality that pushes one to think in terms of killing right from the start. Human are much more powerful than this lkind of thinking.


Flash, I am a complex woman who seeks balance spiritually, emotionally, and physically. I do not speak for anyone but myself and I am an American. If someone chooses to read into my words that is their problem. Many people put "tone" to my words that is completely off the mark. America is a dangerious place. A 13 year old boy was burned badly not long ago by a group of teens who were angry about the Trayvon Martin incident. They chased him, doused him with gasoline and lit him on fire on his front porsh. Flash mobs of young blacks have attacked groups of white people for no reason. They have aggressively attacked men, women, and children. One woman and a co-worker were walking back from a restaurant recently near their office and a group of 30 blacks attacked them and it was heard "This is for Trayvon". Now, how attacking two white hundreds of miles away who could not possibly have been guilty of the Martin shooting is somehow getting justice is beyond me. The racial tension in many parts of America is growing and getting thicker and thicker, and I think it is by design.

Someone wants riots to start and wants blacks and white fighting. There is open talk among some black "leaders" to kill whitey. This rhetoric is heating up more and more and it's on purpose. Before this year, I never saw posts on "standard" forums from whites who openly stated, "Come on and try it". There is a growing anger in the white community for being blamed for all the problems in the black community. It's as if all whites are profiting off of the blacks, and it's just a lie. I wont' even go into the slavery propaganda that is always touted. I personally know a lot of black people, and the ones I know are scared of what they see happening. Just like there is a small group of elites playing the world for fools, there are a small group of race baiters in various communities (black, white, hispanic) that are causing problems. I posted a couple months ago a set of videos from blacks who took part in the civil rights protests who explained how they were trained by Russians to create strife, chaos, and violence to cause change.

We are seeing the foundations laid again. I will protect my family. I will not allow my children to become victims in a crisis. I will not go looking for a fight, but should I find myself in a very difficult situation I will use enough force to stop it. I will encourage others to do the same. At the same time, I will also work within my community to help build a solid relationship with all my neighbors and hope by doing so that the chaos will not come close to us. As I do not live in the city and left the suburbs a year ago, I think our chances are pretty good. I do see chaos coming, and it's a planned event. It should be over within 2 months, and therefore not that hard to avoid trouble.

It is not wise to compare other countries to America. We have a totally different set of demographics, economics, and government set up here. You cannot compare Denmark or Holland to America. It's just not the same. It would be great for all of mankind to wake up tomorrow and not care what anyone's religion or lifestyle was, but that is not the case. In a crisis, people get swept up on the mob mentality, and mobs tend to not think.

[mosquito]

That was very well stated U.S.

I think the whole issue is extremely complex and hesitate to even begin to give an opinion on where we are heading. Like Flash, I too prefer to have an attitude of not being scared of attack, but then it's easy for me, I live in a peaceful place.

I think I'm comfortable saying to anyone who wants a gun - GET EDUCATED !!!!! Learn how to use the damn thing, and understand, fully understand the consequences and responsibility of owning and using one, much as has been laid out here.

[Lost Soul]

No handgun bullet is guaranteed to incapacitate an assailant. One famous American marine once put three bullets into his target. The first two were solid hits in The chest with a 30-06, a WW I & WW II rifle bullet. It took a third shot to the brain to incapacitate the assailant. My point is that it isn't the caliber inauch as where the bullet is placed. For the latter a lot of practice under stressful conditions at moving target is required.

Kudos on excercising responsibility for self defense. May you never have a need for it though.

[WHOMADEGOD]

Sorry, but shooting someone DOES mean you are prepared to kill them.

There is no gaurrantee that if you attempt to incapacitate the enemy
thr enemy will not also suffer a fatal wound. This is something I had to
come to terms with while serving in two armed forces, Army and Air Force.

[Unified Serenity]

Sorry, but shooting someone DOES mean you are prepared to kill them.

There is no gaurrantee that if you attempt to incapacitate the enemy
thr enemy will not also suffer a fatal wound. This is something I had to
come to terms with while serving in two armed forces, Army and Air Force.

I agree, but I am not able to find where on the thread that it was stated otherwise. My point is, you can choose to shoot at a less likely area to cause death or choose to choose a high probability area to cause death. It's important to be familier and skilled with the firearm of your choice. Higher caliber bullets cause more recoil and it's a bit more difficult to control the weapon or re-obtain your target. Thus, choose the weapon you are most comfortable with using. This of course can change with time and skill gained on a shooting range.

Thanks for your thoughts. I would like to see more thoughts on safety and techniques.

One technique I think is very useful is to start out from the position of the weapon in the holster to make you draw it and acquire your target. The more you do this, the quicker you become. Another technique is to shoot with your off hand in case for some reason your dominant hand is injured. Learn to shoot with both hands and from various positions.

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Well, if some of you question about a weapon restrictive politics, just ask me and I´ll say that it doesn´t work, at least for honest people.

Here in Brazil, people can´t have guns. Well, technically we can but can´t...I´ll explain.

You can buy a gun (civilians are restricted to a maximum .40 caliper revolver or pistol) to have in your home, but it´s such a boring, very expensive and highly bureaucratic process, that most people can´t afford both the guns and the licenses and taxes.

So, generally, Brazilians, at least the honest ones, don´t have guns at home, for the above reasons. Ammo is very expensive here and really low in quality as well.

There´s a different licensing process if you want to carry a gun with you. Of course, you have to go under a few medical, psychological tests and prove that your profession offers you risks that require you to carry a gun. The whole process is very expensive an prohibitive.

However, the bad guys have guns. In fact they have BIG guns and even grenades and missile launchers are often found in favelas.

So yeah, the good guys can´t have guns, but the bad guys have easy access to all kinds of guns on the black market.

And, the police, which is supposed to protect us from the bad guys, since we don´t have guns, is completely corrupt, because their salary is so small that they have to look after other means to earn money and take care of their families.

The police is somewhat fine were I live (the 3° larger city in the country) but if you go to Rio and the police stops you, be careful. Sometimes they are worse than the official criminals.

So, to sum up, gun restrictive politics doesn´t allow honest men to have guns, but the bad guys can easily buy them, which gives them strategical advantage and leaves you completely unprotected, since most of the times you can´t even trust the police because they are the ones who supply the bad guys with the guns. Got it?

Very crazy, hum?

Cheers,

Raf.

[Unified Serenity]

There is a quote that goes something like this, "Any Government that provides everything for the people can take away anything from the people."

The socialist system is about dependency on the government for what you have. If everyone was honest and ethical it would be a great system, but as we have seen time and again, there is no such thing as an honest and ethical population or government. People do favors for some in order to get favors in return. It's all set up to create dependency and ultimate control.

The more dependent you are on the government, the less you can take care of yourself. There was a huge difference in what the population in New Orleans experienced verses those further North who suffered terrible floods. The devestation was pretty dramatic in both places, but one group pulled together, did not need or complain about the government help or lack thereof, and the media gave almost no coverage for how the community pulled together further North.

It's sort of like parenting. If you do everything for your children, they will not learn or gain independence. Sadly, that is exactly what we have a majority of today in America. Dependent children and adults who can't possibly take care of themselves, and when society finds itself in a disaster, they freak out, rob, pillage, and kill to get what they think they need because all they know is being dependent.

[GoodETxSG]

Hey folks,

Well, if some of you question about a weapon restrictive politics, just ask me and I´ll say that it doesn´t work, at least for honest people.

Here in Brazil, people can´t have guns. Well, technically we can but can´t...I´ll explain.

You can buy a gun (civilians are restricted to a maximum .40 caliper revolver or pistol) to have in your home, but it´s such a boring, very expensive and highly bureaucratic process, that most people can´t afford both the guns and the licenses and taxes.

So, generally, Brazilians, at least the honest ones, don´t have guns at home, for the above reasons. Ammo is very expensive here and really low in quality as well.

There´s a different licensing process if you want to carry a gun with you. Of course, you have to go under a few medical, psychological tests and prove that your profession offers you risks that require you to carry a gun. The whole process is very expensive an prohibitive.

However, the bad guys have guns. In fact they have BIG guns and even grenades and missile launchers are often found in favelas.

So yeah, the good guys can´t have guns, but the bad guys have easy access to all kinds of guns on the black market.

And, the police, which is supposed to protect us from the bad guys, since we don´t have guns, is completely corrupt, because their salary is so small that they have to look after other means to earn money and take care of their families.

The police is somewhat fine were I live (the 3° larger city in the country) but if you go to Rio and the police stops you, be careful. Sometimes they are worse than the official criminals.

So, to sum up, gun restrictive politics doesn´t allow honest men to have guns, but the bad guys can easily buy them, which gives them strategical advantage and leaves you completely unprotected, since most of the times you can´t even trust the police because they are the ones who supply the bad guys with the guns. Got it?

Very crazy, hum?

Cheers,

Raf.

They can have my gun if they come looking for it... no big deal... all of the storm troopers who carry guns can have one liberated from them quite easily, everyone drops their guard at some point.

Then I have a new gun... maybe even a better on. Training in many offensive/defensive arts/tactics and survival methods give you all of the tools you need... YOUR BRAIN is the best tool you have.

[Unified Serenity]

While that is all true, it is not helping those who are killed daily by the criminals and dirty police looking to make a buck. An unarmed populace is simply easy pickings. Just look at the cities in America with the highest crime rates. They all outlawed gun ownership and concealed carry, and yhet they have the highest murder and crime rates: New York City and Washington D.C.. I know Chicago is abysmal, but I don't know the gun laws there. All of these have been controlled by anti-gun advocates for decades, and yet the people who suffer are the lawful citizens. They can't go grab a gun legally and protect themselves, so they are given the choice to be a target and easy victim or a criminal but alive and not a victim of some drug dealing or using thug.

[GoodETxSG]

While that is all true, it is not helping those who are killed daily by the criminals and dirty police looking to make a buck. An unarmed populace is simply easy pickings. Just look at the cities in America with the highest crime rates. They all outlawed gun ownership and concealed carry, and yhet they have the highest murder and crime rates: New York City and Washington D.C.. I know Chicago is abysmal, but I don't know the gun laws there. All of these have been controlled by anti-gun advocates for decades, and yet the people who suffer are the lawful citizens. They can't go grab a gun legally and protect themselves, so they are given the choice to be a target and easy victim or a criminal but alive and not a victim of some drug dealing or using thug.

Sad but true... the only disarmed people are the ones that need protection, and you are NOT going to get it from the COPS... they just come and fill out the report and draw a chalk line around your or your loved ones... then maybe months later they accidentally catch the bad guy on a traffic stop.

[Lost N Found]

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr22Pistol/images/3600.jpg



Self protection is a very personal decision. Sadly, for some of you that has been made for you by your governments. I happen to live in the gun toting US of A and the sale of personal firearm protection has gone through the roof! The people sense tough times are coming. There are too many stories of people being attacked by rogue mobs, thus the choice of many is to obtain a firearm.


I was blessed with a father who encouraged his two girls to learn how to properly use a firearm. I would go to the gun range on weekends and dad would teach us all the tips and tricks of shooting. Of course, he taught us safety first and the fact that guns are very dangerous. One of the first lessons I learned was that you never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them, and there is no such thing as an unloaded weapon! My father was one of the best marksmen in the Unites States Navy, and therefore he taught us well. I have recently been thinking about various theories on pistol caliber and ammunition that would offer the most protection.


It has been my thinking for a very long time that the .44 caliber is the best take down weapon based on police statistics of one shot take down results. After that, the second best in my book was a .45, and the 1911 Colt .45 has always been one of my most favorite weapons. With that said though, those are high power pistols and no weapon will help you if you are not comfortable shooting it and learn how to control it. No weapon will help you if you don't want to carry it either. I have tended to not like the 9 mm because it tends to just go through the target and it takes more rounds to take them down while a good .380 round can do incredible damage and stop the bad guys. With all that being said, let me repeat that no weapon will be of any use to you if you are not comfortable shooting it or carrying it.


I have had a change of heart recently regarding carrying a weapon and what caliber to carry. I would have laughed in your face not long ago if you had suggested that I look into getting a .22 pistol. I mean, come on, a .22? Then, I watched Molotov's video and he was right. If you shoot someone they will bleed and hurt and 999 people out of a 1000 are going to stop attacking you at that point. If you shoot them and they do not stop, you have to be able to reacquire your target and shoot them some more. Now, granted if you spend a lot of time on the firing range then that is easier to do, but a .22 kickback is a whole lot less than a .45, .44, or 357. Oh, those rounds will put a football sized hole in someone, but first you have to shoot them, and second if you miss you gotta try again, while the .22 has almost zero kickback and you can put in a tight group easily and if necessary you can do a head shot if absolutely necessary because of how easy it is to control.


One of the reasons people do not shoot their weapon is the cost of the ammunition. It keeps going up, and therefore people go out once or twice a year if lucky and shoot their pistol. That does not make for a very experienced shooter and therefore reaction times are slower should you need to draw your weapon. Some people will get a .22 just to practice with, but if you are in trouble and need to shoot that weapon, then it's imperative that you are comfortable with the kickback and getting back on target!


With all that in mind, I think there are some huge benefits to buying a good quality .22 semi-automatic handgun. The ammo is very cheap, you will have fun shooting it, and will also encourage your children to learn firearm safety and get comfortable with a quality weapon. I think my favorite right now is the Ruger SR .22 and I will post some videos below to let you get an idea of how great this weapon is. I was torn between the Walther P22 and the Ruger SR.22 won out for several reasons.


1. It's 2 ounces heavier than the Walther P22 which decreases kickback
2. It's barrel is a fixed barrel and it's very thick, it will last
3. De-cocking mechanism which the Walther P22 does not have and is a hazard when de-cocking the pistol.
4. 3 dot reversible sights.
5. 2 clips
6. extra grip for those with large hands
7. few parts to breakdown and clean the weapon
8. The Ruger SR .22 appears to eat almost any ammo with zero problems
I think there is little reason to go out in public unarmed anymore. If you are going to get a CCW, then learn the tools needed to do so safely and effectively. The second video is an excellent one to understand how to do CCW and not be uncomfortable. Remember, if you are uncomfortable you won't carry, and if you won't carry then you are not protecting yourself or your family. I respect the police and worked with them for years. I did not know a single rogue cop. Every officer I knew would give their life to protect the citizens, but the sad fact is that most police show up after the crime to gather evidence and write reports. They cannot be there for you most of the time, and you are responsible for your life and the life of your family. Learn how to do it safely, skillfully, and effectively!



Ruger SR 22


Great video showing the capability of the .22
ps_AIciGnng


Go to WND to see Molotov Mitchell explain why use a .22 or .380 (Great video)


http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/for-self-defense-22-beats-45/


Concealed Carry in the Waistband
7gjUknHqvGY


Well this is good, However, I do prefer my 9 mil Glock 17 and found that this weapon is superior to most other pistols. It does not stove pipe, it keeps on shooting no matter what and if using the hollow points it will stop anyone coming at you. I do agree with you on the fact that if you are not comfortable shooting anything it isn't going to do any good. I used to carry a 1911 45 auto and found it to be way to cumbersom and expensive. It is not the size of the bullet but rather how accurate you or one is with whatever they are shooting. I have seen the vids about using a 22 and that is right on. If you have to shoot and you hit someone with one of these it is going to stop them from moving forward if you hit them in the head or heart. Now as for the Nine, I happen to know alot of deputies and policeman that will carry these as backups or regular and they can be deadly with them. Yes you are right about that bullet going completely through but that has been a blessing and not so. Now the hollow point is nasty.

I remember, and still have the bullet in my leg, getting shot with a 22. It was absolutely no fun at all. I suspect if it had been anywhere else in my body, I might not be here today.

Interesting subject, I have taught both of my daughters how to handle a weapon and they both have CCW's so that is one worry I do not have with them.

Thanks for the Thread. Peace be with you

[TargeT]

The Five Seven as i understand it; was designed as an light armor piercing round. The armor piercing tipped cartridges are not supposed to be on the market for non agency use.

The HN Five Seven is a great hand gun but, it also comes with a great price tag (1000+ US dollars).

You can also get the P90 weapons system chambered in the 5.7.

I carry a 5.7 everywhere & own a Ps90, but as you said, it is a very expensive weapon system (both)

the 5.7 has been shown to do more damage than a .45 on balistic gel targets and (with the right ammo) is level 2 body armor piercing, very attractive all around with an extremely managable recoil.


one problem with fire arms is the lethality of them, as I've been in combat zones a few times I've had to face this situation and its not an easy one to reconcile with.

I like that you are thinking of PDW's but perhaps a less than lethal option would be ideal, I have recently purchased two of these:
http://www.knuckleblaster.com/images/knuckleblasterlogolg.jpg
http://www.knuckleblaster.com/
950,000 volts is quite useful for putting someone on the ground.

aside from that I'll say one thing on personal defense:

you can go to the range all you want, you can be the best aim there and think you are prepared but once it comes time for a "panic shot" you'll find out how prepared you are.. I highly suggest a shot gun, a Remmington 870 pump shotgun is inexpensive and highly effective, plus the sound of racking a shell will be almost more effective than the shot itself.

I also am one that think's 9m is useless, the Alaska State Troopers quit carrying 9mil when they found it wouldn't even penitrate layered carharts (comonly worn here in the winter) & has almost no stopping power.

[JohnBlues]

There's a company called MagPul Dynamics that hold tactical/defensive shooting courses for handgun, carbine, shotgun. They have a DVD series, i've watched all of them, and there's lots of valuable info in there

Art of Dynamic Handgun
===
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Art of Dynamic Carbine
===
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Art of Dynamic Shotgun
===
1XCv0X6SqUg

Personally, i live in Oz with restrictive gun laws, but i own a 7.62 rifle, 5.56 rifle and a 12g shotgun for sport and hunting, and even though it's not legal to use firearms for self defense here, in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI (The End of the world as we know it) scenario I don't think that would really matter anymore.. I know thats the same for friends who also own firearms for "sport and hunting" purposes only.

Just got my pistol license, so i'm looking at buying a pistol too, was thinking something with Strikerfire system and not single action/double action as they are not as simple and idiot-proof to use in a stress situation, my mate has an SW M&P 9mm (which is what Chris Costa uses in the Magpul courses above) and I'm looking at that, also a fan of the 1911's.

if7cwqHcaTY

I'll be doing IPSC too, likely standard division, in Oz pistols are officially only meant for sport, can't be used in hunting.. again in a collapse of society, i think a lot of pistol owners wouldnt take that into much consideration

[Unified Serenity]

The information speaks for itself, and though some of you hate AJ, the facts of the story seem pretty clear. Just because you have not suffered extreme totalitarian boot on the neck government in the UK does not mean it is not headed your way, and what are you going to do to protect yourselves? You used to depend on American to keep the peace in Europe, but as you all hate us now, and we are being overrun by communist traitors just as you were, we shall all soon know what a government that has zero fear of the poeple can really do. This is why we American's are not going to give up our guns:

UK Bans Self-Defense Expert From Entering Country (http://www.prisonplanet.com/uk-bans-self-defense-expert-from-entering-country.html)

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, May 9, 2012


The UK government has banned self-defense expert and former US Navy Seal Tim Larkin from entering the country after Larkin planned to hold seminars instructing people how to protect themselves against rioters and criminals.

“Tim Larkin tried to board a plane from his home in Las Vegas on Tuesday, but was given a UK Border Agency letter saying “his presence here was not conducive to the public good,” reports BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18002220).

The banning order reflects how the coalition government is continuing the previous Labour Party’s policy of discouraging British citizens from using any kind of self-defense whatsoever given the fact that private ownership of firearms is all but completely outlawed.

Larkin was scheduled to be the keynote speaker at The Martial Arts Show conference in Birmingham and to hold a seminar in Tottenham, two areas hit by violence during last year’s riots. Unlike many methods of so-called “self-defense,” Larkin’s program actually teaches (shock, horror), methods on how to incapacitate an attacker.

Larkin told BBC Radio 4 that the banning order was a “gross over-reaction” and said the real reason behind it was because he had publicly criticized the country’s laws on self-defense, which are ambiguous at best and leave victims completely vulnerable to criminals.

The notion that Larkin may have been banned from entering Britain primarily because he has been critical of the country’s laws on self-defense is plausible given the fact that others like radio talk show host Michael Savage (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/06/world/fg-britain-list6) have also been banned for holding controversial political opinions.
People in the UK who have used force to protect their property against home invasions by criminals have themselves been on the receiving end of legal retribution, despite the fact that both common law and the Criminal Law Act 1967 both allow citizens to act in ways which would otherwise be illegal to prevent injury to oneself or others.

A landmark case occurred in 1999 when farmer Tony Martin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29) shot at two burglars who had broken into his remote farmhouse, killing one and injuring the other. Despite the fact that Martin had been the victim of burglaries numerous times before with little help from the police, in addition to the lengthy criminal record of the burglars, Martin was convicted for murder because a jury found that he had gone beyond using “reasonable force”. The conviction was later reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/uk-bans-self-defense-expert-from-entering-country.html