Posting Pet Peeves

[Mozart]

Avalonians,


Ok, I just can't take it anymore! :yield: ... :help: ... :gaah:


Sorry, people, but I have some posting pet peeves that I'd like to discuss with you guys and see if we can come up with some sort of solution(s) for these three specific problems with posts.


I do not intend for this thread to be a complaint thread. I intend it to be a constructive thread in which we can find a way to reduce, then nearly eliminate, two specific problems with posts that are easily correctable.


I want to emphasize that I have only positive intent with this thread. I'd like to create a solution that works for all of us in a spirited, cooperative and peaceful way that is a win/win/win for all of us. And that this little example of cooperative problem-solving can be an inspiration for us to take this positive spirit of problem-solving out into our lives and create bigger ripples of positive, peaceful solutions to be co-created by all of us.


Here are three posting pet peeves that really aggravate me:


1) HUGE quotes ~

Leaving in HUGE quotes, or even large quotes, followed by one-sentence replies drives me nuts. It's such a waste of byte space, annoying to scroll by and aggravating to many, including the hapless mods who have been flustered by this problem for a long time.


2) Quotes in quotes in quotes in quotes in quotes ~

It's ok if you have, say, a quote inside of another quote, but leaving in a quote inside of a quote, inside of another quote, and another ... GAAAAH. Please don't do that.


3) HUGE paragraphs ~

Typing in HUGE one-block paragraphs, like wall-to-wall carpeting of words with no breaks at all on the computer screen. They are a strain on the eyes and hard to read for anyone, no matter how good of a reader one is. I suggest a maximum of 5 lines or less per paragraph, please.


Ok, posts that have these problems ...

A) Poor grammar; sentence construction, like with run-on sentences; poor spelling and poorly-constructed sentences from which no sense can be made; and,

B) Poor taste in attitudes, cuss words and demeanor; and,

C) Other systemic problems.

... really cannot be effectively dealt with, as these problems stem from within the mind of the author(s) of such post(s), so corrections of this sort would take too much time and effort on anybody's part.


But problems #1, #2 and #3 can be dealt with, I think, effectively in this forum. Simple posting etiquette can be taught and learned with ease, I think.


What I propose with the mods of the forum is for some people to step up and volunteer to be "limited action moderators" in which they'd be reading along doing their normal thing, but if they see a post that has a huge quote, followed by a one-liner reply, for example, the 'limited-action mod' can immediately correct the problem, then send a PM to the author of such a post to let the author know about it in a nice way.


If any author receives several PMs on the same issue, I think that in the vast majority of cases, such authors would make sincere efforts to not repeat this problem in the future. People have their own personal pride of doing anything well, so they can self-correct once they hear from others who are authorized to help them them along a bit to correct the problem(s).


I'm willing to volunteer to be a 'limited-action mod' and do my part to help out to reduce and nearly eliminate these three very correctable problems that really don't need to continue.


Would this 'limited-action mod' idea work, or does somebody have a better idea?


To do nothing will only continue the problems. To impose an added duty on the moderators to clean up the problem posts is an unneeded burden upon the mods, who are busy enough as they are.


So, if we created a position of 'limited-action mods' and have several people volunteer to be deputized, if you will, in this limited role, then to correct the posts, followed by a polite PM to be sent right away to the person who'd committed the faux pas, I think that we can drastically reduce the three problematic posts by 95%, or more.


What say you?


~Mozart

[tonton]

sorry ,not the best on a keyboard!!!!!!!!!!!!, but i make the best pizzas.if you like i could supervise the pizza talk and put it straight.

[RunningDeer]

Great ideas. I've been guilty of poor sentence structure and spelling. An upgrade on the tone is a good thing. We don't have to agree, but allowing for another's view makes for a more pleasant discussion, and the willingness to share.

There have been times where I find it hard to respond to someone's post because there are several themes going on; one contradicts the other. So the manageable paragraphs will assist both the writer and reader.

Full disclosure, I've deleted material from older posts because the tone has changed in the last month. I didn't want it to be used against me. (It was.) Though, I've reposted some of it because Project Avalon is for all of us.

Thanks for this thread, Mozart.

[doodah]

Hi Mozart, Good luck!

Like trying to herd cats.

[karelia]

I'm just popping in to say I'm 100% behind Mozart with this.


<snip>
1) HUGE quotes ~

Leaving in HUGE quotes, or even large quotes, followed by one-sentence replies drives me nuts. It's such a waste of byte space, annoying to scroll by and aggravating to many, including the hapless mods who have been flustered by this problem for a long time.

Imagine you had to scroll down Mozart's post quoted here in its entirety; you're more likely than not to tire before you reach the end. So keep the quotes short, reduce them to the relevant part(s), and you're likely to gain a larger audience.



2) Quotes in quotes in quotes in quotes in quotes ~

Same applies here. The longer the quoted text is, the fewer readers will be left.

The above two points are especially important since in the age of smart phones, many readers will read on those tiny devices instead of a computer screen. If you want your opinion to reach more than die-hard readers, be considerate.


3) HUGE paragraphs ~

Typing in HUGE one-block paragraphs, like wall-to-wall carpeting of words with no breaks at all on the computer screen. They are a strain on the eyes and hard to read for anyone, no matter how good of a reader one is. I suggest a maximum of 5 lines or less per paragraph, please.

In the age of electronic books, it really IS necessary to keep paragraphs short. If you have a printed book in front of you that has text from top to bottom, with no difference in line length, how likely are you going to keep focused on what you're reading? It's even harder to read big chunks of text on an electronic device. There are fiction archives on the internet; they have a rule with regard to paragraphs: Keep 'em short, start a new one every time a new thought is started or a thought veers away from the original thought or dialogue begins or someone else starts to speak etc etc etc. you get the drift. And guys, this isn't laziness; rather, it's kindness on the eyes.

I dare not go into grammatical pet peeves, and I am absolutely NOT addressing those whose first language isn't English. Just, you know, the spellcheck was invented for a reason.

[Mozart]

Hi Mozart, Good luck!

Like trying to herd cats.


LOL, exactly!


WhiteCrowBlackDeer ~

Thank you for your thoughts on this matter. I'm surprised that your removal of dead text was used against you in the past. My, my -- I hadn't thought about that.

~Mozart

[Peace of Mind]

Meh....it might help but I don't see the necessity. Everyone is not English or an English major. Just as long as I can make out what they're saying I'm fine. If I can't...I'll just move on to something else, I don't think its really that important. There are other concerns as far as posting go...

Peace

[Mozart]

[Deleted by Mozart; refer to next post.]

[Mozart]

I'm just popping in to say I'm 100% behind Mozart with this.



karelia ~


Thank you very much for your kind support and added commentary.


Such commentary from a mod adds much weight to the solutions of the issues.


So any thoughts about the idea of creating 'limited-action mods'?


We can preach all we want, yell from the pulpit all we want, but if we don't engage with the faux-pas creators, then the problems will continue, no matter what.


Like what Doodah says -- it's like herding cats.


It's been our experience (myself and my backup coordinator) that trying to make suggestions to people to do certain things certain ways in an impersonal, public way, like posts in forums, emails, etc, just does NOT do the job.


But if one were to personally engage with the faux-pas creator (as opposed to "offender" and I don't want to use a criminal-oriented word, ya know?) on a one-by-one basis, then the faux pas creator quickly would correct the errors and clean it up from that point on.


This kind of one-on-one contact works like magic, hence my suggestion for a two-prong approach, to wit:


1) Create positions of 'limited-action moderators' and empower them to go in and correct errant posts, such as reducing the huge quotes to much-smaller quotes, breaking up one-block paragraphs into smaller paragraphs and eliminating the quotes-inside-quotes thing when needed; then,


2) For the 'limited-action mod' to personally send a PM to the errant poster and politely let the errant poster know what had happened and to suggest an alternative way of doing things. Polite and to the point. No brow-beating, shaming, etc.


So it is my contention that if we were to do this, after a short period of time, the number of aggravating, errant posts with those three aforementioned problems would fade away fairly quickly with very few repeaters.


Certain people have developed bad habits of doing one or more of those three on the faux pas list, so if they were to correct their errant postings, well over 50% of such errant posts would be quickly eliminated.


Again, I am doing this thread in the light of positive, cooperative approach to solving problems without anybody feeling like that they've been put down in any way.


~Mozart

[Alex Laker]

Concisesness. I have trouble sometimes. I like words too much.

[jjjones]

avalonian friends, if this minutiae is all one has to discuss/complain about in one's life with all the tragedy, matters of importance & high profile changes that are going on in the world then you are so very very fortunate. this topic seems like a discussion for an English grammar class. it is not how a forum topic is written or the spelling, it is the content and value that serves one for learning, awareness and enlightenment. maybe i am off the beaten path, but can anyone explain why people can't be themselves trying to express themselves without criticism of their delivery of expression by their speech/writing/typing when that is the best that person can do? yes we are all teachers and students on our journey in life and all in the same boat, but we need to accept & respect each others place without pettiness. i have been taught that wisdom is far above intelligence/the intellect. my thread reply intent is meant in a constructive and positive way. i think the forums and threads of p.a are challenging and i learn something from every topic and reply, just as i have from this posting. my thanks to all of you! namaste, love and peace universally :)

[GoodETxSG]

I agree,
I am guilty of some of this. I am having issues with some of the people that pop from thread to thread that poke people in the eye with witty banter to start an argument.

I have been using the block/ignore feature quite a bit lately. People should talk to others as though they are face to face with them.

The anonymity of the Internet gives them some weird twisted courage... if you can call it that.
Well, thats my 2 Cents

=======================
I think we ALL know the few that just like to pop in and stir the pot. We can either get in Tit for Tat battles with them...

or just hit that big ole ignore button. If enough of us do that and they start to wonder why no one is replying to their posts it may sink in and make a difference. :lock1:

Some times I cannot help but say something after a while. Then I feel like a goof

[NancyV]

I'm sure your intentions are good and yes, it would be so nice if everyone was uniformly thoughtful and precise in their posts. It would be wonderful if they didn't misspell words or use incorrect grammar so my obsession with correct spelling and grammar wouldn't kick into high gear. I wish everyone could be more like ME! Of course life might be a bit more boring because I wouldn't have as many challenges trying to quell my silly ego which tells me how perfect I am and asks me how I can possibly put up with such abysmal ignorance from others!

But somehow I seem to muddle through each thread I choose to read and so far I have survived the multitude of posters who offend my sensibilities with their multi-quotes, execrable spelling and grammar and their thoughts that don't agree with mine.

Speaking of which....while we're cleaning up the LOOK of the posts and the usage of space, could we please clean up the content to only allow comments that are not total fantasy (determined by me of course) or complete BS (determined by me again). We could have not only someone to correct spelling errors, long and redundant quotes, grammar errors and nasty language (determined by me)....but we could have someone monitor the comments to make sure they don't disagree with what I think is true! I think this is an awesome effing plan!
:peace:

[ThePythonicCow]

The long nested quote problem is a technical forum software problem, from my perspective.

The forum software does not make it easy to do ideal quotes or just single nested quotes (what you're responding to, but not what -they- quoted too.)

The unraveling of
...
... ...
... ... blocks is not something that makes sense to perhaps half of the forum membership. Just how it is. Unless the forum software does it automatically (which it doesn't), many will not reasonably do such.

===

As for the long blocks of text without paragraphs, the last couple of such cases I tracked down were members preparing their post in Microsoft Word and copying it over. The difference in the paragraph markup between Word and the forum causes them to lose the paragraphs. Apparently, this can be worked around by putting two paragraph marks (hit RETURN twice) beween the paragraphs in Word, but that workaround is not obvious until someone tells you.

[ThePythonicCow]

My recollection (not certain) is that the forum software used to quote only the text in the post you were responding to, not the quotes nested further inside. Then an addon that includes all levels of nesting was added by Richard. If this is so, then another option might be to revisit whether we want that addon.

[Hervé]

[...]

... I wish everyone could be more like ME!

[...]

... (determined by me of course) [...] (determined by me again).

[...] (determined by me)....

[...]

Hi NancyV!

Thanks for the humor. :paintgirl:

As for the nested quotes... if someone is curious enough, that someone could click on the "here" to check what it is all about...




http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png Posted by NancyV (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=480706#post480706)