Report that USA rejoined International Criminal Court

[Pete]

just found this. I think it's very important. what do you think?

Obama Rejoins ICC, US No Longer “Rogue” State
Posted on May 3, 2012
Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 | Posted by Gordon Duff
Veterans Today

I think this is HUGE. It means that the criminals in our country, all of them, are subject to arrest and trial at The International Court in the Hague! They now have no place to hide. This also gives me hope that Obama may be wearing two hats. I hope so, but we must still wait to see; however, I can’t imagine him easily signing his own death warrant, can you?



JUSTICE, AMERICA? DOES OBAMA REALLY MEAN IT?

American War Criminals Now Subject To Laws US Enforces on Others

By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

In a surprise move, President Obama signed an executive order rejoining the International Criminal Court, an organization established originally by the United State to enforce international law and punish war criminals.

The US left the court under Bush in order to protect those responsible for kidnapping, drug running and torture. They may now be arrested, even if American office holders or members of the military or CIA, which, oddly enough, many of those responsible for such heinous crimes are.

Almost all facing prosecution are, curiously enough, members of the Republican Party and are trying to spin a return to freedom and justice as America giving up rights. The only right sacrificed are the rights some of the 1% and key officials had to murder, rape, steal and run drugs.

They may now be arrested under the same laws that applied to Gaddafi, Saddam and other “war criminals” that America has seen fit to bring to justice.

A careful read of one of the trickiest documents I have ever seen limits arrests of US elected officials as long as they are in office. Language protecting the military is less clear if not clear at all.

In doing so, Obama even puts himself at risk but the risk is far higher to Ashcroft, Gonzales, McCain, Lieberman, Bush (all), Cheney and a list of war criminals who may number in the thousands.

As to how far the ICC is willing to go is questionable. The organization tends to arrest only those of dark skin or targets of American foreign policy.

Perhaps that will change with the Arab Spring and elections in Europe which has gotten rid of some and may eventually remove nearly all the old leaders, most of whom are potential suspects in war crimes.

When we see Interpol put the cuffs on McCain and Lieberman and “perp walk” them out of the Senate, we will know we may get America back.

Related articles

What’s fair for the war-criminal goose (economist.com)
War Criminal Obama again threatens unlawful war with Iran: who will arrest him? (washingtonsblog.com)
United Nations Compiles Syrian War Criminal List It Can’t Enforce (theatlanticwire.com)
What is the International Criminal Court (ICC)? Ask Doc Bonn (docbonn.wordpress.com)

===

[Mod-edits:





The following thread is the result of merging three separate threads on this topic.

See also a fourth thread that I did not merge: ICC for Dummies (Int'l Criminal Court) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44988-ICC-for-Dummies--Int-l-Criminal-Court-), describing the International Court of Justice at The Hague (ICC).

See in particular Post #31 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44689-Report-that-USA-rejoined-International-Criminal-Court&p=487031&viewfull=1#post487031), below, which casts doubt on whether any such Executive Order to rejoin the ICC was actually signed by Obama.
- Paul. ]

[Lost Soul]

Yes, the US is still controlled by TPTW.

[modwiz]

just found this. I think it's very important. what do you think?

Obama Rejoins ICC, US No Longer “Rogue” State
Posted on May 3, 2012
Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 | Posted by Gordon Duff
Veterans Today

I think this is HUGE. It means that the criminals in our country, all of them, are subject to arrest and trial at The International Court in the Hague! They now have no place to hide. This also gives me hope that Obama may be wearing two hats. I hope so, but we must still wait to see; however, I can’t imagine him easily signing his own death warrant, can you?



JUSTICE, AMERICA? DOES OBAMA REALLY MEAN IT?

American War Criminals Now Subject To Laws US Enforces on Others

By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

In a surprise move, President Obama signed an executive order rejoining the International Criminal Court, an organization established originally by the United State to enforce international law and punish war criminals.

The US left the court under Bush in order to protect those responsible for kidnapping, drug running and torture. They may now be arrested, even if American office holders or members of the military or CIA, which, oddly enough, many of those responsible for such heinous crimes are.

Almost all facing prosecution are, curiously enough, members of the Republican Party and are trying to spin a return to freedom and justice as America giving up rights. The only right sacrificed are the rights some of the 1% and key officials had to murder, rape, steal and run drugs.

They may now be arrested under the same laws that applied to Gaddafi, Saddam and other “war criminals” that America has seen fit to bring to justice.

A careful read of one of the trickiest documents I have ever seen limits arrests of US elected officials as long as they are in office. Language protecting the military is less clear if not clear at all.

In doing so, Obama even puts himself at risk but the risk is far higher to Ashcroft, Gonzales, McCain, Lieberman, Bush (all), Cheney and a list of war criminals who may number in the thousands.

As to how far the ICC is willing to go is questionable. The organization tends to arrest only those of dark skin or targets of American foreign policy.

Perhaps that will change with the Arab Spring and elections in Europe which has gotten rid of some and may eventually remove nearly all the old leaders, most of whom are potential suspects in war crimes.

When we see Interpol put the cuffs on McCain and Lieberman and “perp walk” them out of the Senate, we will know we may get America back.

Related articles

What’s fair for the war-criminal goose (economist.com)
War Criminal Obama again threatens unlawful war with Iran: who will arrest him? (washingtonsblog.com)
United Nations Compiles Syrian War Criminal List It Can’t Enforce (theatlanticwire.com)
What is the International Criminal Court (ICC)? Ask Doc Bonn (docbonn.wordpress.com)

I will watch and see what transpires from this. It is certainly a nice change form the usual clenching of the fist legislation an incontinent government has been passing of late to try and calm their nightmares. In fact, this little EO might create some discomfort for the things that like to hide under rocks while getting woody's over the latest rendition or drone attack.

Got wood? This EO might, (emphasis on might), have all the charm of a ravenous woodpecker for some.

[sdv]

For non-Americans this is good news indeed because at least there is some real way to seek justice for all the harm done. But, getting a case investigated or prosecuted is not easy.

Here's a good overview of what the Court does:

http://www.icc-cpi.int/NetApp/App/MCMSTemplates/Index.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID={D788E44D-E292-46A1-89CC-D03637A52766}&NRORIGINALURL=/Menus/ICC/About+the+Court/Frequently+asked+Questions/&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#id_9

Example: the killing of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan was blatantly against international law, BUT it did not cause the deaths and suffering of a large number of people so there is no way Obama is going to be prosecuted for this.

Interesting times!

PS It might be a good idea for Bush, et al to stay at home! ;)

[Maia Gabrial]

It's close to election time, folks. Now the butt-kissing and lies begin (until after the elections, of course). Then it's business as usual....

[sdv]

It's close to election time, folks. Now the butt-kissing begins (until after the elections, of course). Then it's business as usual....

The cynical part of me thought this as well - Obama knows he is safe from prosecution but it would certainly help him in the election if there is a lot of attention (does not even need an investigation or prosecution) on the crimes of past Republican leaders, et al.

I like Obama very much but I can't help but see how this could be very useful for him politically at this time!

[DreamsInDigital]

This is definitely important in that it's a step towards those "Arrest" that have been promised for so long becoming even more probable. From one of the most reliable mainstream sources on the net, Gordon Duff and Veterans Today.

Obama Rejoins ICC, US No Longer a "Rogue" State.

American War Criminals Now Subject To Laws US Enforces on Others

… by Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

In a surprise move, President Obama signed an executive order rejoining the International Criminal Court, an organization established originally by the United State to enforce international law and punish war criminals.

The US left the court under Bush in order to protect those responsible for kidnapping, drug running and torture.

They may now be arrested, even if American office holders or members of the military or CIA, which, oddly enough, many of those responsible for such heinous crimes are.

Almost all facing prosecution are, curiously enough, members of the Republican Party and are trying to spin a return to freedom and justice as America giving up rights. The only right sacrificed are the rights some of the 1% and key officials had to murder, rape, steal and run drugs.

They may now be arrested under the same laws that applied to Gaddafi, Saddam and other “war criminals” that America has seen fit to bring to justice.

A careful read of one of the trickiest documents I have ever seen limits arrests of US elected officials as long as they are in office. Language protecting the military is less clear if not clear at all.

In doing so, Obama even puts himself at risk but the risk is far higher to Ashcroft, Gonzales, McCain, Lieberman, Bush (all), Cheney and a list of war criminals who may number in the thousands.

As to how far the ICC is willing to go is questionable. The organization tends to arrest only those of dark skin or targets of American foreign policy.

Perhaps that will change with the Arab Spring and elections in Europe which has gotten rid of some and may eventually remove nearly all the old leaders, most of whom are potential suspects in war crimes.

When we see Interpol put the cuffs on McCain and Lieberman and “perp walk” them out of the Senate, we will know we may get America back.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/05/03/obama-rejoins-icc-us-no-longer-rogue-state/

[white wizard]

A lot of energy is being put into the idea of change and from what I can see

all around me with how people have started to act differently towards

each other. I like looking at things from big perspectives comes naturally

being an Aquarius. I think people will see the energy is shifting just give it time

and be patient.

[Paladin14]

Wouldn't it be great if Wilcock was right about Obama being one of the good guys. I like to think its still a possibility, maybe he had to do the bidding of the powers that be first. Maybe this is the start of the real change.

I think the whole Ron Paul movement and the media's blackout of him is making a lot of people wake up. I see the cleansing of corruption an inevitability, a natural evolution. People don't want to be slaves, and the more ridiculous the powers that be get, the more people will naturally take notice and wake up from their brainwashing.

I posted this article yesterday in the Bill Ryan will eat his hat- guaranteed thread, but I don't think anyone read it or just ignored it, kept talking about the eating of the hat. Hopefully the white hats start cleaning house.

[truth4me]

Wouldn't it be great if Wilcock was right about Obama being one of the good guys. I like to think its still a possibility, maybe he had to do the bidding of the powers that be first. Maybe this is the start of the real change.

I think the whole Ron Paul movement and the media's blackout of him is making a lot of people wake up. I see the cleansing of corruption an inevitability, a natural evolution. People don't want to be slaves, and the more ridiculous the powers that be get, the more people will naturally take notice and wake up from their brainwashing.

I posted this article yesterday in the Bill Ryan will eat his hat- guaranteed thread, but I don't think anyone read it or just ignored it, kept talking about the eating of the hat. Hopefully the white hats start cleaning house. I just don't buy Obama being one of the good guys.

[Alie]

If we were a wizard we would see all of it; alas we are seeing little bits of big pieces which fit into even bigger puzzles --- puzzles probably not even fully visible. So, we have a dilemma. We're debating over very small pieces of things.

But I think this is a big one. And we are trying to make a timeline of big events since maybe Jan 1 when James Martinez started it off. I'm seeing a rolling forward. (ever so slowly). It's keeping us very occupied.

The biggest payoff for "THEM" is if something so "evil" can slip past all of the eyeballs that are on super alert ---- what do you think?

I wish I had the time/focus to put the last few months in outline form ---- does anyone want to do it?

Better yet --- wish we had a CSI/BAU office with all the techs available at our beck and call :) The truth is there for us all to envision --- probably just one layer away.

[Paladin14]

I just don't buy Obama being one of the good guys.

I don't either, every time he speaks I get a strong gut sense that he's full of S***. I can see it as a possibility though that he has to do what he's told or else. Could have signed this to help in the arrests of the real war criminals and be a step to what we're hoping for, maybe its just another excuse to go after terrorists, or maybe he's been tricked into signing it by good guys so that they can arrest him!

[Oouthere]

Constitutionally Obama is not even our president, he should be among the first to be prosecuted under U.S. law IF our laws were truly enforced.

Rich

[Vitalux]

In my opinion, it would be naive to believe the government of the United States would put in place laws which could convict the same criminals in charge of crimes.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjwxOPBUpic78aruFzpOMFExt6yvdzcYyrhNNVgEberkPcnbF6IA

Just like historically, USSR had a constitution giving the citizens freedom and rights, however there were no rights and freedoms.



It amuses me at how often the administration of the US government lies to the masses, and yet, no matter how many times they discover that they were lied to, they just repeat the same pattern again, over and over again.

Ironically, in the opinion of many peoples of the world, the Untied States military are the terrorist.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kyD4Eq9Cge0/TwmKbUM9TzI/AAAAAAAAFgA/FinJT8aRWhk/s1600/fighting-terrorism-since-1492.jpg

[sdv]

This is definitely important in that it's a step towards those "Arrest" that have been promised for so long becoming even more probable. From one of the most reliable mainstream sources on the net, Gordon Duff and Veterans Today.

Obama Rejoins ICC, US No Longer a "Rogue" State.

Please can we use our brains and inform ourselves. This means that American individuals can be (if the ICC will investigate and prosecute) held accountable for war crimes, genocide and wars of aggression.

Do not insult people of the world who have suffered from these crimes (often at the hands of Americans) by even mentioning this new development in the context of the Drake/DW BS. This has nothing to do with the bogus arrests (show me the mass graves in America, the graves of the hundreds of thousands of women and children who have been killed, the thousands who have had limbs blasted away by land mines, the children who have starved and been deprived of medical care, and so on).

Now, apart from being completely ignorant of what these crimes are that are investigated and prosecuted by the ICC, use your common sense - Obama has not committed crimes as defined by the ICC. His predeccessors are another story, and would it not be of great political advantage for Obama, at this time, for the focus to fall on the war crimes committed by past American presidents (especially Republicans)? This looks like a timely political move to me. (Yes, the killing of Bin Ladin in Pakistan was an international outrage but it was not a war crime as defined by the ICC in terms of the types of cases it investigates and prosecutes.)

Americans have absolutely no claims at all to prosecute or even investigate any of your past or present leaders for crimes as defined by the ICC, because no such crimes have been committed against the American people (unless you want to go back into the past and prosecute for crimes against the Native Americans, but that falls outside the time limit). HOWEVER, people in countries in the rest of the world are lining up with their petitions!!

My point is that to connect this with the arrests promised by Drake/DW is an imaginative absurdity, but is typical of how Drake/DW groupies will clutch at anything and present it as 'proof' of their agenda.

[Maia Gabrial]

Obama is only safe until after he LOSES the election. Then he'll be fair game for prosecution. He's a traitor and he'll stand trial for what he's done...

I like Obama too - until he opens his mouth...

[sdv]

Obama is only safe until after he LOSES the election. Then he'll be fair game for prosecution. He's a traitor and he'll stand trial for what he's done...

There are no grounds to prosecute Obama for anything, certainly not at the ICC.

[GoodETxSG]

Every single one of them have a NWO menbers hand up their butts elbow deep working them like the puppets they are. ALL OF THEM. Republicans, Democrats and Independents... Green Party... Tea Party... even the OWS groups have been infiltrated. Only something drastic will bring real "CHANGE". Ole Mr Soros and other people/groups like him are counting all of the votes anyway. I don't mean to sound like a broken record but non of our representatives represent us... represnt us.. represent us... skip skip cratch... flip the broken record and play it again.
Sorry about any visuals my comment about puppets caused a few sentances up :(

[Rozzy]

If Obama himself is a criminal then getting a few Republicans out of the way fits the agenda of the now socialist/fascist regime.

[GlassSteagallfan]

I think it has something to do with the 'Responsibility to Protect' Act recently passed by Obama. Not quite sure tho..

[GlassSteagallfan]

Wouldn't it be great if Wilcock was right about Obama being one of the good guys. I like to think its still a possibility, maybe he had to do the bidding of the powers that be first. Maybe this is the start of the real change.

I think the whole Ron Paul movement and the media's blackout of him is making a lot of people wake up. I see the cleansing of corruption an inevitability, a natural evolution. People don't want to be slaves, and the more ridiculous the powers that be get, the more people will naturally take notice and wake up from their brainwashing.

I posted this article yesterday in the Bill Ryan will eat his hat- guaranteed thread, but I don't think anyone read it or just ignored it, kept talking about the eating of the hat. Hopefully the white hats start cleaning house. I just don't buy Obama being one of the good guys.

Obama can be anything. It is a matter of who is controlling him

[Maia Gabrial]

There are no grounds to prosecute Obama for anything, certainly not at the ICC.

Dream on, sdv.....

[kcbc2010]

Obama is only safe until after he LOSES the election. Then he'll be fair game for prosecution. He's a traitor and he'll stand trial for what he's done...

There are no grounds to prosecute Obama for anything, certainly not at the ICC.


Wow.....Let's see, Libya. Gitmo's still open. Signed the NDAA. We're still in Afghanistan. Obama's still carrying on a lot of the policies of GWB - so it's okay that the TSA is feeling up our elders and kiddos? A lot of the TARP bailout money went to prop up European banks. What did he mean by telling the Russian President, "just wait until after the election when I have more flexibility"? Was it just an accident that the Iranians got a hold of our latest drone technology? How about the way he bullied and pushed through Obama-Care w/o any sort of bipartisan support whatsoever?

There's a pattern of behavior and it really doesn't help his cause that he actively hangs out and allies himself with people who are hell-bent on destroying America. Fast-and-Furious? The fact that his AG is pretty damn close to being charged with contempt by the House for refusing to allow a former employee to testify about what he knew/when. The fact that reasonable people still have questions about who this guy is and where he came from really doesn't bother you? That doesn't even get into most of what Ulsterman and others have found out about the guy/his associates.....seriously...

It's one thing to be blinded by some sense of admiration/loyalty/partisanship, but it takes a lot of effort to justify not looking at the full-depth of someone's character and actions.

You really can't go around assuming that because one political party is inherently bad, the other must be inherently good. That's how the elite trap us into fighting against each other and not against them. Everyone knows my biases by now, but I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone on "my side" is looking out for my best interests or the country's interest. All you have to do is look at the CISPA vote for that validation. I was actually kind of surprised that my D Congressman actually did something right/voted no on it. But because of redistricting, next year, my new "Congresscritter" is going to be the guy who sponsored it and thinks that it is a great idea. Needless to say, I can't wait to throw that guy out in 2014 because he will win his seat in 2012. So, those of us in the know are going to be working very hard to find a primary challenger for this critter, so we can show him the exit door in a couple of years. I'm not going to support someone just because they have an R by their name.

Believe me, as someone who believed back in the day that GWB could do no wrong and that 9/11 couldn't possibly be an "inside job" and Iraq really did have "WMD's", it was scary when I started waking up to the fact that he and his actions weren't for the betterment of humanity. I can understand how that conflict just pierces your soul because you so want the old paradigm to be true, so that you won't have to adjust to a new mindset/reality. The fact that the Bush family has done so much harm to people really hurts my soul because it's not like the drugs/mind control/sex stuff is front page news - and I voted for him - and I was blind as a bat! So, I can appreciate how people can be blinded by even the idea that there could be a conflict between what you see and what you don't want to see.

However, if we want to be free, then we need to be open to the idea that our assumptions about people/ideas can be wrong.

[Rantaak]

My friend says that ICC is all bad news, morally ambiguous, and generally destitute of justice.

We shall see how it goes.

[Rantaak]

There is another thread on this over here which I have commented on:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44689-USA-back-into-the-fold

Perhaps the moderators can merge these threads or something.

[Hervé]

From good ole' Doc John Coleman in his "Committee of 300" book:



We are close to the point where the United States will send its military Forces to settle any and all disputes brought before the United Nations. Departing Secretary General Perez de Cuellar, heavily laden with bribe money, was the most compliant U.N. leader in history in granting demands of the United States without discussion. His successor will be even more inclined to go along with whatever the U.S. government places before him. This is an important step along the road to a One World Government.

The International Court of Justice at The Hague will be used in increasing measure in the next two years to settle legal arguments of all types.

It is of course the prototype for a One World Government legal system that will supplant all others. As for central banks, essential in the planning of the New World Order, this is already very much a fait-accompli with the Bank of International Settlements dominating the scene at the close of 1991. Private banks are fast disappearing in preparation for the Big Ten banks that will control banking the world over under the guidance of BIS and the IMF.

[sdv]

This is a reality check. Whether I like Obama or not is completely irrelevant to assessing if he is guilty, and of what, and can be prosecuted by the ICC or not.

1. In general, you cannot prosecute someone because you do not like what they do or are against what they do. What law have they broken? That is what prosecution is about. What laws has Obama broken? If he has broken laws then take him to court and prosecute him.
2. Educate yourselves about what the ICC is and what it does. Now tell me which countries, or which groups of people, have a case to take to the ICC against Obama? And what exactly is that case?

I am not defending Obama; just stating facts, which are:

Americans cannot take a case against anyone in their own country to the ICC unless they have exahusted all legal avenues in their own country.

The ICC is there to investigate and prosecute major crimes against humanity, such as genocide, not that the international community does not care about other crimes, but there are other courts that deal with those. (Americans, show me the mass graves, thousands of people with limbs blown off by land mines, hundreds of thousands obliterated by nuclear bombs, and so on - in America.)

Please do not insult those who have been murdered, maimed, raped, made homeless by acts of war and genocide by continuing to whine about the suffering of the American people. This makes you look like petulant children and thus reduces the chances of support for any kind of changes you want to make in America. Perhaps you don't think you need any kind of outside support and have faith that with your military power you can crush anyone to dust so you don't actually care because might is right.

Apologies for being so rude. I do not mean it personally at all. I am just angry that after all the misery and suffering that America has inflicted on others (including to the soldiers that have to carry out these acts), Americans dare to simply see the ICC as a place to play out domestic grievances.

And if you do care about the suffering inflicted on others then start with these two issues: go and remove all the landmines you have planted all over the world that still kill and maim people, and then pay compensation to every person who has been maimed or has lost a family member to your landmines. At home, make sure that every American soldier is given the help of the community to have counselling (whatever they need for however long they need it) and live a full and happy life as part of the community. Start with that.

:sad:

[sdv]

More information here on the ICC.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/international-justice.html

The GPF is left of liberal so many on this forum may see them as a bunch of commies and a threat, but ironically they echo much of what is said on this forum and the GPF does have legitimacy.

Here's what the GPF is and what it does ...

http://www.globalpolicy.org/about-gpf-mm.html

[the_vast_mystery]

Obama is only safe until after he LOSES the election. Then he'll be fair game for prosecution. He's a traitor and he'll stand trial for what he's done...

There are no grounds to prosecute Obama for anything, certainly not at the ICC.


Wow.....Let's see, Libya. Gitmo's still open. Signed the NDAA. We're still in Afghanistan. Obama's still carrying on a lot of the policies of GWB - so it's okay that the TSA is feeling up our elders and kiddos? A lot of the TARP bailout money went to prop up European banks. What did he mean by telling the Russian President, "just wait until after the election when I have more flexibility"? Was it just an accident that the Iranians got a hold of our latest drone technology? How about the way he bullied and pushed through Obama-Care w/o any sort of bipartisan support whatsoever?

There's a pattern of behavior and it really doesn't help his cause that he actively hangs out and allies himself with people who are hell-bent on destroying America. Fast-and-Furious? The fact that his AG is pretty damn close to being charged with contempt by the House for refusing to allow a former employee to testify about what he knew/when. The fact that reasonable people still have questions about who this guy is and where he came from really doesn't bother you? That doesn't even get into most of what Ulsterman and others have found out about the guy/his associates.....seriously...

It's one thing to be blinded by some sense of admiration/loyalty/partisanship, but it takes a lot of effort to justify not looking at the full-depth of someone's character and actions.

You really can't go around assuming that because one political party is inherently bad, the other must be inherently good. That's how the elite trap us into fighting against each other and not against them. Everyone knows my biases by now, but I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone on "my side" is looking out for my best interests or the country's interest. All you have to do is look at the CISPA vote for that validation. I was actually kind of surprised that my D Congressman actually did something right/voted no on it. But because of redistricting, next year, my new "Congresscritter" is going to be the guy who sponsored it and thinks that it is a great idea. Needless to say, I can't wait to throw that guy out in 2014 because he will win his seat in 2012. So, those of us in the know are going to be working very hard to find a primary challenger for this critter, so we can show him the exit door in a couple of years. I'm not going to support someone just because they have an R by their name.

Believe me, as someone who believed back in the day that GWB could do no wrong and that 9/11 couldn't possibly be an "inside job" and Iraq really did have "WMD's", it was scary when I started waking up to the fact that he and his actions weren't for the betterment of humanity. I can understand how that conflict just pierces your soul because you so want the old paradigm to be true, so that you won't have to adjust to a new mindset/reality. The fact that the Bush family has done so much harm to people really hurts my soul because it's not like the drugs/mind control/sex stuff is front page news - and I voted for him - and I was blind as a bat! So, I can appreciate how people can be blinded by even the idea that there could be a conflict between what you see and what you don't want to see.

However, if we want to be free, then we need to be open to the idea that our assumptions about people/ideas can be wrong.

Majority of what you said is positively spot on, NDAA, gitomo, illegal rendition and bush era war policies are the same under Obama. That said I have to correct something with regards to the Healthcare reform act, while yes it was a huge giveaway to insurance companies please don't say it was "forced through without bipartisan support." Republicans have, as a party, made quite explicit their strategy was to undermine every single thing that could positively attributed to Obama. They want to make him a one-termer and because of that they will reflexively oppose anything he puts forward. You can see this with how lately he's been copy/pasting past Republican proposals together to sort of catch their bluff. (the original Jobs act for instance) The Healthcare act only passed because of some voting mechanics that temporarily allowed them to get around the filibuster and then budget reconciliation had to be used to finish the bill.

While it's still just slapping a bandaid on the horrible US healthcare system, don't expect anything resembling bipartisan support during this congress. The problem we're facing right now is that electoral politics has gotten so nasty/polarized so fast that the two factions can't even work together to effectively feign gridlock and make the kabuki work anymore. Neither side wants to give an inch because they know if they do the other will take them for a mile and that may be a blessing in disguise. We may quickly see who, if anyone, still in congress actually cares about issues that affect people versus padding their coffers with special interest dollars.

[christian]

A guest viewer of the forum sent an eMail with a very good point, saying that Gordon Duff through Veteran's Today is the only source for the alleged executive order signed by Obama that is supposed to facilitate the US re-joining the ICC. Virtually all other articles on the net referring to this executive order can in some way be traced back to info from the VT article.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/05/03/obama-rejoins-icc-us-no-longer-rogue-state/

There is no mention of this order in the National Archives:
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2012.html

---

Btw: I mailed Gordon Duff before, when he published an article in which he claimed, that Stalin killed more Jews during the Holocaust than Hitler, saying most of the concentration camps in Eastern Europe were operated by the Soviets. I asked him, what his sources were, as there were no sources mentioned in the article, I never received a reply to that request.

[Hervé]

Sorry that this does not answer your question to G. Duff, however, it gives an indication as to what is still extant in that part of the world:



Anatoly Sharansky’s Final Statement in the Soviet Court
presented before being sentenced on trumped-up charges for treason and espionage, July 14, 1978

(Sharansky addressed his first remarks to those who were not in the courtroom, his wife Avital who emigrated to Israel and the Jewish people):

“During my interrogation the chief investigators threatened me that I might be executed by a firing squad, or imprisoned for at least fifteen years. But if I agreed to cooperate with the investigation for the purpose of destroying the Jewish emigration movement, they promised me freedom and a quick reunion with my wife.

“Five years ago, I submitted my application for exit to Israel. Now I am further than ever from my dream. It would seem to be cause for regret. But it is absolutely the other way around. I am happy. I am happy that I lived honorably, at peace with my conscience. I never compromised my soul, even under the threat of death.

“I am happy that I helped people. I am proud that I knew and worked with such honorable, brave and courageous people as Sakharov, Orlov, Ginzburg, who are carrying on the traditions of the Russian intelligentsia in defending human rights in the Soviet Union. I am fortunate to have been witness to the process of the liberation of Jews of the USSR.

“I hope that the absurd accusation against me and the entire Jewish emigration movement will not hinder the liberation of my people. My near ones and friends know how I wanted to exchange activity in the emigration movement for a life with my wife Avital, in Israel.

“For more than two thousand years the Jewish people, my people, have been dispersed. But wherever they are, wherever Jews are found, every year they have repeated: ‘Next year in Jerusalem.‘ Now, when I am further than ever from my people, from Avital, facing many arduous years of imprisonment, I say, turning to my people, my Avital, ’Next year in Jerusalem.’

“Now I turn to you, the court, who were required to confirm a predetermined sentence: To you I have nothing to say.”


However, since the same guy who funded the Bolchevick Revolution also funded Hitler and that paper trails indicate that the SS in charge of Auschwitz were on his payroll; I woudn't dismiss the allegations (see: this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260553&viewfull=1#post260553)).