It's not the truth.

[ROMANWKT]

The one truth is a very good question with a broad range of understandings and conclusions.

So here goes, there is no such thing as truth, it cannot be, ones belief is not a truth, ones faith is not a truth, even thoughts are not truth, what one sees is not a truth, what one feels is not a truth.

The only thing that could be called the truth is the unchanging, something that never changes ever, that would be a truth of a true state, now think about the unchanging, what is there that never changes, in physical matter everything keep changing its state, therefore it cannot be a truth.

The only truth is ZERO state, a nothing, all else is added, a belief becomes a truth for somebody, its a belief, its not a truth. You can change your beliefs on a day to day basis and prove to yourself that what was true yesterday is not the truth today. Mind is not a truth, its a creator, therefore there cannot be a right or a wrong, good or bad, as its just a belief, and belief is not a truth. God is not a truth, one may be psychologically more stable in an emergency for instance by believing in a support by a God, but it not a truth, its a belief, and a belief in a God has made us all to be manipulated, and its not a truth.

What you believed as a child has changed to what you know now and in what you believe now, its not a truth, it a belief.

Mind creates what you believe, what you have created with mind is not a truth, its a belief. You cannot change the Matrix, you can only manipulate it, within it, you can add nothing, you manipulate of what is, but its not a truth.

The hidden gift of humanity is belief, for whatever you believe in, you will create, but its not a truth, it a belief, a forever changing function of creation by mind, by your beliefs, but its not the truth its a belief.

All the opinions and all the knowledge are nothing more than here-say that is believed in, and mind creates it into reality, but its not a truth, its an accepted belief.

The system is designed to unify all of humanity’s beliefs for the system manipulation.

The system proposes that they are the holders of the truth, they are in fact holders of your beliefs, which is not a truth, but we believe them, therefore we are bound to them by a belief, which is not the truth.

Decide what it is that you wish to believe in, and it shall be the truth for you, but its a belief only, its not a, or the truth.

Re-examine your truths and your beliefs, figure out what has been placed inside of you, and what you have placed inside of you, what limits have you placed on yourself, and what limits has the system placed into you. Change your belief, change your life, changes the world we live in.

we need to understand and re-evaluate everything as the media manipulation is getting stronger with dis-info, which will bring all of our consensus together as a belief, which will make changes here in this realm, which is not a truth, but our unified belief, not a truth.

roman.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15834-Its-all-nonsense-part-1

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32896-MANIFESTING-IN-THE-MATRIX-its-all-nonsense-part-2

[<8>]

Hi Romanwkt and thanks for your thoughts.

My view..


The only truth is ZERO state, a nothing, all else is added

The only thing that never changes is your awareness and that is who you are.

You are the silent awareness, the nothingness the formless being or as some say the consciousness.

The rest is form as in objects as are your mind and the thoughts who made up this life story.

You are the awareness that watches your thought as it arise, when the thought is there and after the thought.
realize this and you know who you already are.


..8..

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Romanwkt and thanks for your thoughts.

My view..


The only truth is ZERO state, a nothing, all else is added

The only thing that never changes is your awareness and that is who you are.

You are the silent awareness, the nothingness the formless being or as some say the consciousness.

The rest is form as in objects as are your mind and the thoughts who made up this life story.

You are the awareness that watches your thought as it arise, when the thought is there and after the thought.
realize this and you know who you already are.


..8..

Hi 8

Very nicely put, and yes, as consciousnesses and of consciousness.

There is a lot of information here in the forum, all stating what the truth is, which it is not, these are things that we choose to believe in and as a group we will manifest it, or individually for ourselves. We must all realize the danger of believing what we read and listen to, re-access yourselves to what is the truth, which nothing is, its just a belief.

Lots of thing are being put out everywhere, which is the doing of mans mind, be it negative or positive, through our beliefs as being so or the truth, will bring this belief into manifestation by the uninformed humanity.

We are at a dangerous times, and the review of what is and what is not, is very important, as the system is now placing all the dis-info that they had pushed out for years are to be put into action now, by them.

regards

roman

[Cidersomerset]

Very interresting Romanwyt and most of what you quote seems to come from the laberynth of the mind but is not as you say truth, hence 'Never Mind'.....

Each individuel creates thru the spoken word , though it starts with a thought.

3—Imagine what you want
2—Let non-physical bring it into existence
1—Add details

Something Dr Carolyn Dean said the othernight , that the whole universe is captured within each cell of the body , meaning I think that within our
holographic existance the vastness of space can also be captured in the tiniest of places....

I am well into the Ion material and have a current thread up of last weeks show and he is opened my 'mind' to a world much different
than the 3 D controlled world we think we are in....

As you say all the statements you said in the first post have validity to some degree and make sence....imo


Is the Ion material Truth ? or another belief for the individual to ponder ? I don't think we will no the answer to that in this matrix...

The essence of the material is we are all 'wonderfull individual Human creators' who for contrast cast off our 'Godship' to experiance
the physical,we left clues all over the place so we could find our way back.Now thru the digital meme and cold fusion we are able to
reconnect with our non-physical andcome back into our power......There a lot more to it than that,but in the context of this thread.
Is this just another belief or the truth ?.....

There is no answer to this question as you said a belieth is not a truth and a truth is not nessaccery a belieth....

I don't know if this came over right , I saw an answer in my mind when I read your post, but I'm not sure if what I wrote is the same..LOL..'Never mind'..

Still a good brain teaser for sunday....Steve

[ROMANWKT]

If we are going to spend our life's believing that Gods, Angels, Aliens, are going to save us, from whatever, think again. its not a truth, its a belief.

We have a name for every health condition that there is, believe in it, then its yours, you shall own it, but its not the truth, its a belief.

We all believe in a system run by money and governments, we have given our power away to them, now we don't know what to do to change it, without a great amount of damage. We believe we cant step out of this. its a belief, its not the truth.

When 90% of the population believe all that they are told via governments, religious authorities, and medias so called news, then we see the problems that we are facing, that in its reality don't exist, as shortages world wide, which will bring on starvation and ruin to the masses, all created by people who control our beliefs, but its not a truth.

Yes they have plans for the Masses, but we need to awake as many as possible, it has to be now or never, their overhaul beliefs as a mass will affect all of us on this plane, no matter how awake we think we are. We can take individual action, but you cant escape the masses, or the direction many of us will be forced to take.

This is belief in action, but its not a truth.

regards
roman

[Cidersomerset]

We have a name for every health condition that there is, believe in it, then its yours, you shall own it, but its not the truth, its a belief.

Thats something Ion says ..there was no disease untill we named it ......I fully understand the 3 D world and all the lies and intrigues going on...

I post them everyday !! and I am an athiest as far as religion goes..... The Ion material is not about religion it about who we really are but

some will have a differrent view on that , I fully except billions of us are manipulated thru religion ,governments, media and crooks every day

so its nice to be able to communicate with like minded people on forums like this....Normally down the pub such views are hard to express and

develop....

[Alie]

Isn't it just hard enough to know ourselves? How in the heck do we as individuals fit into the universe? We are seeking to know this truth - I am.

When we say awakening, we are using that to express many levels/dimensions/selves of awakening, I presume ... awakened to the truth.

I think awakening is like a chakra awakening. Root to crown. Steve, perhaps that info from Caroline about the universe being in each cell is the awakening of the crown chakra (or the chakras beyond).

So, if I don't grasp truth, then I really can't grasp anything about myself except that which is primal. And so I seek to know.

My conclusion (which may or may not be your point to the thread, RomanKWT) is that I must seek truth in order to know myself. And I get to enjoy the process of discovery --- which can be as detailed or simple as I want to make it. My truth should not affect your truth unless you are on the same "wavelength".

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Cidersomerset

The technicalities of what you are saying is not a truth but a belief about the subject, I also could not give a dam what Dr Carolyn Dean thinks, that her belief. what I am interested is the person that answered this post, and what he/she thinks, I see you had something that came to you when you read it, that's what I wanted, its what you think about belief and what is truth.

Thank you Cidersomerset

regards
roman

[ROMANWKT]

Isn't it just hard enough to know ourselves? How in the heck do we as individuals fit into the universe? We are seeking to know this truth - I am.

When we say awakening, we are using that to express many levels/dimensions/selves of awakening, I presume ... awakened to the truth.

I think awakening is like a chakra awakening. Root to crown. Steve, perhaps that info from Caroline about the universe being in each cell is the awakening of the crown chakra (or the chakras beyond).

So, if I don't grasp truth, then I really can't grasp anything about myself except that which is primal. And so I seek to know.

My conclusion (which may or may not be your point to the thread, RomanKWT) is that I must seek truth in order to know myself. And I get to enjoy the process of discovery --- which can be as detailed or simple as I want to make it. My truth should not affect your truth unless you are on the same "wavelength".

Hi Alie

Firstly we all are on the same wave length, its called our consciousness, if we could but clear the belief garbage within us, we would all be talking to each other with our minds. I say seek all you want of what you call the truth, but the understanding is that it will become your belief eventually, so seek find, dump, if it does not suit your purpose.

Thank you Alie

regards
roman

[Sebastion]

Hi Roman:

It's good to see you posting again!

Seems to me that everything is just a "program" that's running and perpetuated by the belief systems of the masses. I reckon when enough "Neos" start realizing that and awaken to that fact, the system will be overcome. Until then, we do what we can.

[Cidersomerset]

Mind creates what you believe, what you have created with mind is not a truth, its a belief. You cannot change the Matrix, you can only manipulate it, within it, you can add nothing, you manipulate of what is, but its not a truth.

This is the quote that made me think of Dr Dean ,I think it might be that each individual persons universe is already programmed into your cell like a holographic tenplate.
There is no such thing as time , just one vast now and the past and the future are going on similtainiously, so ineffect you cannot change the matrix only manuipulate it
as you said...

Ali..

I think awakening is like a chakra awakening. Root to crown. Steve, perhaps that info from Caroline about the universe being in each cell is the awakening of the crown chakra (or the chakras beyond).

That makes sence....But its mindblowing to me....Steve

[ROMANWKT]

The Universe being in each of ones cells is part of our DNA codes that uphold our physical reality here in the Matrix.

regards
roman


After pressing link below, please press blue download arrow and save file.

Here is book 1 http://university.ucadia.info/download.php?view.417


After pressing link below, please press blue download arrow and save file.

Here is book 2 http://university.ucadia.info/download.php?view.397


There are billions of cells/neurons in the human, that even consciousness is in question, as all these cells and neurons create a spacial (space) effect to us as a feeling of universal consciousness.

[ROMANWKT]

It is said that without belief you will not survive in the Matrix, you will not find the food that you need, you will not find the water that you seek, you will not create the rain for your crops.

You will not make it proper in the system that we support, you will believe in their limitation for you.

You as a community will starve from all that is, if the belief of the community needs is not there.

You will not move forwards and grow if the belief towards a goal is not there.

You're existence will be static when you don't choose your road by belief.

All that you will attain while here, will be because of your belief.

HUMAN POTENTIAL IS THROUGH BELIEF. Have you chosen, or was your life and servitude chosen for you??

regards
roman

[<8>]

The only real truth is who you already are.

Know thyself and the rest will unfold, is perhaps the most important statement ever made, (as a thought that is)
This goes against what most of us are conditioned to think, because "The TRUTH IS OUT THERE" ...RIGHT??
So our mind keeps us running the hamster wheel gathering more information (left brain)
But it's not all for nothing, it's to wear us out and if you're lucky you stop and start to go within yourself, where the only truth was all along.
And you might get these last years of your life in harmony and peace..


..8..

[ROMANWKT]

You have to clear yourself from limiting beliefs if you are going to expand you potential, you have to create a clear vessel to impose new potential through your visualization and eventual belief.

Use this http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...onsense-part-1 to create a belief in clearing, then when mastered, dump it.

You are and can be and do and have it all, as long as you believe, but its not a truth, its your creation using your mind, which will create the belief, which will become manifest for you here, but that's a belief in truth and truth is a belief.

regards
roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤


The only real truth is who you already are.

Know thyself and the rest will unfold, is perhaps the most important statement ever made, (as a thought that is)
This goes against what most of us are conditioned to think, because "The TRUTH IS OUT THERE" ...RIGHT??
So our mind keeps us running the hamster wheel gathering more information (left brain)
But it's not all for nothing, it's to wear us out and if you're lucky you stop and start to go within yourself, where the only truth was all along.
And you might get these last years of your life in harmony and peace..


..8..

Well said 8, that exactly it.

[Mozart]

The only truth is ZERO state, a nothing, all else is added, a belief becomes a truth for somebody, its a belief, its not a truth.

<snip>

God is not a truth, one may be psychologically more stable in an emergency for instance by believing in a support by a God, but it not a truth, its a belief, and a belief in a God has made us all to be manipulated, and its not a truth.




Nice post, Roman. I don't have time to fully respond to your fun brain teaser of a post, but I'll comment on a couple of things.


It's a common misconception that what reality is and who/what we are emerges from a "ZERO state, a nothing" when nothing could be further from the truth ... and such a truth exists independently from anyone's perception of that truth.


The apparent "zero state, a nothing" is really the field of Unity, the Source Field from which we all emerge into the worlds of maya in which we get to learn all sorts of lessons through experiences that are shaped by the beliefs that we hold dear in our minds.


So you are right, Roman -- beliefs create your reality, just like how Seth in the Seth Material says repeatedly: "Your beliefs create your reality".


But we DON'T emerge from nothing -- we emerge from a Unity Field, a Source Field that is called all sorts of names ... God, All That Is, Intelligent Infinity, etc.


That is a truth that exists outside of our perceptions.




The system is designed to unify all of humanity’s beliefs for the system manipulation.



Yes, humanity has been very vulnerable to manipulation because of the strong orange-ray body (animal, which is 2nd density consciousness) overlay that is predominant in the bulk of society as we know it.


Animals, the 2nd density creatures, tend to follow leaders when they congregate together, so this trait has strongly influenced the human, 3rd density experiences in which we are supposed to individuate and grow strongly in our minds in our paths to discern truth from distortions.


Then when a human mind/body/spirit complex starts to peel away the layers of belief that shapes one's reality, one is reduced to the essential component of who we are -- which is that we are consciousness/spirit taking on temporal physical form on paths of learning/discerning truths in our efforts to peel off the layers of old, worn-out beliefs that once shaped our realities to reach the point of being able to graduate from the 3rd density experiences into our next level -- 4th density of experiences.


Again, 3rd density, 4th density, etc, exist outside of our belief systems -- in other words, they are true, whether you believe that, or not.


~Mozart

[<8>]

A good clip, my friend..

P-wX7KWOYGs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-wX7KWOYGs&feature=related


..8..

[ROMANWKT]

The only truth is ZERO state, a nothing, all else is added, a belief becomes a truth for somebody, its a belief, its not a truth.

<snip>

God is not a truth, one may be psychologically more stable in an emergency for instance by believing in a support by a God, but it not a truth, its a belief, and a belief in a God has made us all to be manipulated, and its not a truth.




Nice post, Roman. I don't have time to fully respond to your fun brain teaser of a post, but I'll comment on a couple of things.


It's a common misconception that what reality is and who/what we are emerges from a "ZERO state, a nothing" when nothing could be further from the truth ... and such a truth exists independently from anyone's perception of that truth.


The apparent "zero state, a nothing" is really the field of Unity, the Source Field from which we all emerge into the worlds of maya in which we get to learn all sorts of lessons through experiences that are shaped by the beliefs that we hold dear in our minds.


So you are right, Roman -- beliefs create your reality, just like how Seth in the Seth Material says repeatedly: "Your beliefs create your reality".


But we DON'T emerge from nothing -- we emerge from a Unity Field, a Source Field that is called all sorts of names ... God, All That Is, Intelligent Infinity, etc.


That is a truth that exists outside of our perceptions.




The system is designed to unify all of humanity’s beliefs for the system manipulation.



Yes, humanity has been very vulnerable to manipulation because of the strong orange-ray body (animal, which is 2nd density consciousness) overlay that is predominant in the bulk of society as we know it.


Animals, the 2nd density creatures, tend to follow leaders when they congregate together, so this trait has strongly influenced the human, 3rd density experiences in which we are supposed to individuate and grow strongly in our minds in our paths to discern truth from distortions.


Then when a human mind/body/spirit complex starts to peel away the layers of belief that shapes one's reality, one is reduced to the essential component of who we are -- which is that we are consciousness/spirit taking on temporal physical form on paths of learning/discerning truths in our efforts to peel off the layers of old, worn-out beliefs that once shaped our realities to reach the point of being able to graduate from the 3rd density experiences into our next level -- 4th density of experiences.


Again, 3rd density, 4th density, etc, exist outside of our belief systems -- in other words, they are true, whether you believe that, or not.


~Mozart

Hi Mozart

I see you're quoting other people about something you supposedly know yourself, we are into mechanic again, and just because somebody has said so should mean more to me here than you own conclusion, I want to hear you, and by your example of what somebody had said, I believe that's what they believe, which is fine by me, its their choice.

When you turn off the mind and you are in a state of nothing, that's the zero state, all else outside of that state is your projection of your beliefs.

You create your reality by your projection of your beliefs in the matrix, and I did not know that Its a mind teaser when all is creation, created by mind, through your belief, then how could it be the truth?? when its just a creation?? and if the truth lies beyond the conscious state, so be it, what difference, its still all a mind/consciousness/////belief/truth, all nonexistent. lot of mechanics to a simple understanding.

regards to you Mozart

roman

[ROMANWKT]

A good clip, my friend..

P-wX7KWOYGs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-wX7KWOYGs&feature=related


..8..

Thank you 8 she makes the point of zero state, and all else is outside of this is nonsense, belief/creation/truth/ NOT.

REGARDS TO YOU 8
roman

I hate bloody videos, means nothing to me, every one has an opinion, based on their belief, which is what?????

[Mozart]

I see you're quoting other people about something you supposedly know yourself, we are into mechanic again,




Regards to you, Roman, as well. I like your politeness.


No, I'm not quoting other people. I'm stating things that are truths that exist outside of our perceptions ... and of my own perception as well, but what I'm saying is that my POV (others call it a "belief system") is that the evidence of the truths that exist outside of my field of perception is vast, so I have the choice of accepting those truths (per the Ra Material, for example) as facts of life as we know it in our universe, or not.


The Ra Social Memory Complex once trod their own paths of life in 3-D (both 3rd density and 3rd dimension, the former being a level of vibration and the latter being a location of vibration) and now they are up at 6-D with millions of years of conscious mental/emotional/spiritual growth.


So when they come in here and share with us information that's really amazing, paradigm-expanding and fitting tightly with facts of the Source Field as we now know it, we can either accept those truths of reality outside of our POV, or not. It does not matter either way that one chooses, as all choices are valid.


The key thing is that any belief system that if it is constructed of flawed perceptions, such a belief system will eventually crash and burn upon the hard rocks of reality.


Any belief system -- an expanded POV, for example, that takes in the best information available out there, no matter the source -- would endure the test of time if it's built upon good, reliable information from multiple sources, including one's own experiential-based information.


My POV is based on a number of sources and it's all based on the best information available out there -- and within myself, as well. I will discard in a heartbeat any portion of my POV if such a portion is proven to be not accurate or true.




When you turn off the mind and you are in a state of nothing, that's the zero state, all else outside of that state is your projection of your beliefs.

and I did not know that Its a mind teaser when all is creation, created by mind, through your belief, then how could it be the truth??



I meant "mind teaser" in a positive sense, in the sense of thinking of what you said. Nothing negative.


And when you "turn off the mind" -- such a thing is not possible. The mind, by nature, is always churning, turning; always on the move. So the trick is is simply to step out of the river of thoughts that the mind is and to go into that "zero" field that you mention ... but it's really not "zero" at all ... it's yet another field of energy that emerges from the Source Field, from which we all emerge.


And there's proof of that. The famous Faraday Cage experiment, in which the scientists shut down everything that could possibly vibrate in 3-D as we know it, yet when everything got shut down, the recording gauges went off the charts, big-time.


So the "zero" point field is really teeming with energy.


~Mozart

[tonius]

Truth may be just the most ''reasonable'' option out of many possible from a certain point of view. Thats why our truths change everyday, what we held as truth yeasterday becomes old news today, that point of view changes. Now, it is in that ''reasonable'' word above that our knowledge helps,and its personal, but also there is another ingredient beside pure knowledge, its the filtering process, and the structure of this filter depends on our beliefs. This filter is particular for everyone, and the interesting thing is that we always see the filtered portion of the ''raw'' material (truth), even if we would like or convince ourselves it is still the truth.

Even when one is quite ''advanced'' in his/her Self-enquiry process, there is always some kind of belief residue somwhere between him and the truth, even thinking you are without beliefs is a belief in itself. Depending on the kind of filter one have the result will be different, even just in a small percentage. Even the size, shape of the filter's holow spaces would make a big diference, in deciding what ''pieces'' of the raw material, in what size and shape , come through. If one has a rigid filter structure, a thick net of beliefs and their connections, the end result of this ''truth creation'' would be ''thinner'' than the original source,poor in content, predictable, and as we can see only the end result we wouldn't even know what this raw material relly ''looked'' like before filtered.

So when we ''fight'' for our truths in fact we are just comparing filters, as no one , i repeat no one really knows the true nature of the raw material, some maybe have a less rigid fiter structure, so maybe they get a ''better picture'' of what was there before filtering, but stll remains a ''filtered version'', and sometimes even if you mised a single''grain'' from the original material you never know how its ''missed'' presence affects the version of truth you hold.

The sad ''truth''....:)... is all this illusion we are immersed in for the sake of learning is already built upon ''filtered'' material, we just filter it more , densities ,3D, 4D, 5D and so on .. are just tags for filter degree, the higher the ''D'' number you are in the more truth is allowd to be percived by you, the rest is just theories upon theories based on what remains , what reaches us, and if to the already so much filtered material that reaches us we add a ''rigid'' mind than what we are left is ''a joke'', upon wich entire life stories, dramas, joys,and sorrows are built. Whatever you think is the truth remember its just an interpretation based on what you are left with to consider, ''truth'' is just ''the best you can do'' at a certain moment after all variabels like knowledge, personality, convenince ...etc are added to the equation, and not everyone is equally able to solve equations, some dont even bother, they just copy and accept results of others ( not thinking on their own ),

Well, i dont know at all what the ultimate truth is , and i know whatever i may come up with is just what i ''wish'' it was at that moment, so all i can do is enjoy the ''solving'' process, being ready for whatever result comes out, glad at least that this is allowed to us , as we are being ''filtered'' from every direction, every one from this and other dimensions want to sell us their own ''filters'' , the Salesman's Federation of Light, or ...lies, whatever.

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Mozart

Again, what can I say, you are still quoting peoples finds that you choose to believe in, sound like Wilcocks new book, Source Field. The Ra Material I have read all long time ago, yes and?? we are dealing with the working of a creative mind, all is possible, still doesn't mean its a truth.

We are all free to choose what we believe in, or other will do it for you. If you choose to believe in ascension, that's your choice, if you choose to believe that there are other powers involved outside yourself, that again is your choice.

The zero state that I am trying to describe is a state were there is no push and pull, no swinging to the left or right, a state of balance, when that is achieved, you are then at your most powerful stance, having cleared yourself of negative beliefs prior to this stance, you are now in the position in this state to use your mind for manifesting changes to you reality.

That creation is based on your belief which will become a truth in your life as your reality, but its not a truth, its a creation, as all else is, all down to belief.

You can work with mechanic, or you can do this for yourself and prove to yourself.

Thank you for you kind comment Mozart

regards
roman

[xbusymom]

Isn't it just hard enough to know ourselves? How in the heck do we as individuals fit into the universe? We are seeking to know this truth - I am.

When we say awakening, we are using that to express many levels/dimensions/selves of awakening, I presume ... awakened to the truth.

I think awakening is like a chakra awakening. Root to crown. Steve, perhaps that info from Caroline about the universe being in each cell is the awakening of the crown chakra (or the chakras beyond).

So, if I don't grasp truth, then I really can't grasp anything about myself except that which is primal. And so I seek to know.

My conclusion (which may or may not be your point to the thread, RomanKWT) is that I must seek truth in order to know myself. And I get to enjoy the process of discovery --- which can be as detailed or simple as I want to make it. My truth should not affect your truth unless you are on the same "wavelength".

exactly!!
I think truth is not from the field of ZERO, but from the field of infinite 'all that is' – since each person has THEIR truth. They must have a way to filter (choose) down to a specific set of parameters for experiencing any one truth at any one time.

Since 'all that is' cannot exist in the same time and at the same space (the - 2 things can't be in the same place at the same time- kind of thing), we have to fracture time and space to be able to experience ALL things at the NOW time... hence we end up with a 3d dimensional spacial-oriented world and use a linear past-present-future fracture-reality time sequence.

EDIT: and when you look at your reality from a vibrational perspective (the chalkras); each vibrational experience is view as a separate reality (timeline/experience). So if you want to change your reality (truth) just change your vibration which will change your filters/parameters into a different experience level.

[ROMANWKT]

Very nicely put and written tonius, I can only agree with your view.

thank you
regards
roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Isn't it just hard enough to know ourselves? How in the heck do we as individuals fit into the universe? We are seeking to know this truth - I am.

When we say awakening, we are using that to express many levels/dimensions/selves of awakening, I presume ... awakened to the truth.

I think awakening is like a chakra awakening. Root to crown. Steve, perhaps that info from Caroline about the universe being in each cell is the awakening of the crown chakra (or the chakras beyond).

So, if I don't grasp truth, then I really can't grasp anything about myself except that which is primal. And so I seek to know.

My conclusion (which may or may not be your point to the thread, RomanKWT) is that I must seek truth in order to know myself. And I get to enjoy the process of discovery --- which can be as detailed or simple as I want to make it. My truth should not affect your truth unless you are on the same "wavelength".

exactly!!
I think truth is not from the field of ZERO, but from the field of infinite 'all that is' – since each person has THEIR truth. They must have a way to filter (choose) down to a specific set of parameters for experiencing any one truth at any one time.

Since 'all that is' cannot exist in the same time and at the same space (the - 2 things can't be in the same place at the same time- kind of thing), we have to fracture time and space to be able to experience ALL things at the NOW time... hence we end up with a 3d dimensional spacial-oriented world and use a linear past-present-future fracture-reality time sequence.

EDIT: and when you look at your reality from a vibrational perspective (the chalkras); each vibrational experience is view as a separate reality (timeline/experience). So if you want to change your reality (truth) just change your vibration which will change your filters/parameters into a different experience level.

Hi xbusymom

You were born zero, all else has been applied.

regards
roman

[xbusymom]

Very nicely put and written tonius, I can only agree with your view.

thank you
regards
roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Isn't it just hard enough to know ourselves? How in the heck do we as individuals fit into the universe? We are seeking to know this truth - I am.

When we say awakening, we are using that to express many levels/dimensions/selves of awakening, I presume ... awakened to the truth.

I think awakening is like a chakra awakening. Root to crown. Steve, perhaps that info from Caroline about the universe being in each cell is the awakening of the crown chakra (or the chakras beyond).

So, if I don't grasp truth, then I really can't grasp anything about myself except that which is primal. And so I seek to know.

My conclusion (which may or may not be your point to the thread, RomanKWT) is that I must seek truth in order to know myself. And I get to enjoy the process of discovery --- which can be as detailed or simple as I want to make it. My truth should not affect your truth unless you are on the same "wavelength".

exactly!!
I think truth is not from the field of ZERO, but from the field of infinite 'all that is' – since each person has THEIR truth. They must have a way to filter (choose) down to a specific set of parameters for experiencing any one truth at any one time.

Since 'all that is' cannot exist in the same time and at the same space (the - 2 things can't be in the same place at the same time- kind of thing), we have to fracture time and space to be able to experience ALL things at the NOW time... hence we end up with a 3d dimensional spacial-oriented world and use a linear past-present-future fracture-reality time sequence.

EDIT: and when you look at your reality from a vibrational perspective (the chalkras); each vibrational experience is view as a separate reality (timeline/experience). So if you want to change your reality (truth) just change your vibration which will change your filters/parameters into a different experience level.

Hi xbusymom

You were born zero, all else has been applied.

regards
roman

exactly! I was born ME (chosen for/by me was ... gender, race, nationality, economic class, timeline, etc... ) which is nothing but a chosen set of filters/ parameters to experience a specific fracture of a certain 'reality' or truth-piece of the infinate 'all that is'.

[ROMANWKT]

xbusymom you are free to believe all the nonsense you want, I am easy.

regards to you
roman

[xbusymom]

Romanwkt:
Very nicely put and written tonius, I can only agree with your view.

thank you
regards
roman


my 'nonsense' is just a condensed version of what tonious said... so why is there 'all praise' for him and I get a patronizing 'whatever you say dear' pat on the head...??

[ROMANWKT]

Romanwkt:
Very nicely put and written tonius, I can only agree with your view.

thank you
regards
roman


my 'nonsense' is just a condensed version of what tonious said... so why is there 'all praise' for him and I get a patronizing 'whatever you say dear' pat on the head...??

Hi xbusymom I so sorry if it came across that way, but this past life business???, and your choosing your life???? all hypothetical nonsense. tonius talks about belief filters that we all carry, and possible changes as we move on, which is also hypothetical, as all is, I tend to view this in a more psychological stance than unprovable theory, as we are all battling with.

Apologies for sounding rude xbusymom

my regards to you
roman

[ROMANWKT]

If you all believe in reincarnation prove it, if you all believe in lessons to be learn here, prove it, if you all believe you come here with a removed past, prove it, if there is a God in your life prove it, if there are aliens prove it, if you all believe in ascension prove it, I can go on and on, most haven't a leg to stand on this matter, thats why I call it nonsense, I deal with what I can to some extent prove, I don't know about the rest.

We as humanity are caught in a conspiratorial world against us, this is starring in your faces, if you wish to spend your lives in cloud cuckoo land that's your choice and your right to believe this, other wise we better deal with what we know, not what somebody told us with not an ounce of proof, and no way of getting any, we seem to be a mouth piece for others, write what you know, write what you can explain to your best ability about what the truth may be, and how we are misdirected with some unprovable spiritual and channeling nonsense that not one of us can prove, this IS nonsense.

Regards to all as ever
roman

[ROMANWKT]

All this in some aspect shows my ignorance, that many thing stated daily here are manufactured nonsense that many fall for, with nothing to back any word said. I don't think we are dumb here, we all have an inquiring mind, but we have to use discernment with all subject, there has to be at least one person here that can prove something of the countless insinuation about the spiritual and psychological aspect of our nature and our origin as a species with consciousness.

again regards to all
roman

[<8>]

Hi Romanwkt, about this.



every one has an opinion, based on their belief, which is what?????

The mind give you thoughts based on the information you have gatherd, with emotions sometimes.
It's how an human being operate in this world, everyone got their own story (based on thoughts and emotions)
People love stories and are easily sucked into the drama thanks to our conditioning as thoughts and emotions.

Thoughts and emotions are so seductive and most people are not aware of their unconscious thoughts and emotions that they have been conditioned with throughout their life.
Try to explain this and most of the people can't understand what you are talking about.

My experience is that you have gone through a shift in your consciousness, as I did a while back.
This is great news actually, because now you are able to clear up most of your conditioned thought pattern.
And by doing so, you create more space between your thoughts, this means you get peace by the silence in your mind.

I have used guides as Eckhart Tolle, Gangaji and Mooji, just to name a few who don't add more information.
But they actually help you to clear your mind and this brings peace within yourself.

This is of course just one suggestion, it's of course up to you. But It's simple, suffer or peace, the choice is yours.
As I wrote this, my mind is quiet. Most of my thoughts and emotional baggage is gone.

It's a new chapter in this experience and I am blessed, because there are not many who experience this.


..8..

[ROMANWKT]

I would like to state, that my only interest is in human potential, not human BS. All of your potential comes from the belief that you carry, even the paranormal which is normal, is instigated through your belief system, you have to remove the junk that has been passed on to you from many places including here, and then find the clear balance within you to start yourself on the road to whatever that you have a burn for, all the monks throughout the world clear themselves to attain the positive aspect of natural disbelief of possibilities, you have to do the same, there is a very fine balance of what is possible and what is not, your mind in a clear and balanced state has to subtly accept the impossible to become possible. why the hell have they made a bloody religion out of this knowledge???????? Question that one you guys, OK it a secret from us the morons, oh yes only for the brotherhood. They are all hiding this from you, in enclosures, so nobody that has not joined some stupid order, will never find the truth about the true use of ourr belief, which is not a truth, its created, it a belief.

regards
roman

[xbusymom]

Roman,
I did not think you were rude, sorry I came off that way, I was just curious as to why, with the same info discussed differently, he got one attitude and I got another attitude.

I never said anything about reincarnation, life-lessons, etc (or at least I TRIED to keep them out of the discussion). I was trying to address the filter aspect only. The human consensus across the world is that each person has a soul/spirit, and however/whereever they are born into this world - they have filters placed on their reality by their parents and community while they are growing up... and as people further develop their cognitive reasoning abilities, they create other more sophisticated filters based upon their own experiences as their 'reality'. It IS all about CHOICES BEING PERSONAL TRUTHS. … much the same way someone has a truth that a meal of liver and onions tastes good (to them).

[ROMANWKT]

Roman,
I did not think you were rude, sorry I came off that way, I was just curious as to why, with the same info discussed differently, he got one attitude and I got another attitude.

I never said anything about reincarnation, life-lessons, etc (or at least I TRIED to keep them out of the discussion). I was trying to address the filter aspect only. The human consensus across the world is that each person has a soul/spirit, and however/whereever they are born into this world - they have filters placed on their reality by their parents and community while they are growing up... and as people further develop their cognitive reasoning abilities, they create other more sophisticated filters based upon their own experiences as their 'reality'. It IS all about CHOICES BEING PERSONAL TRUTHS. … much the same way someone has a truth that a meal of liver and onions tastes good (to them).

My apologies xbusymom, in that case I agree with you on the content here, I got it somewhat different wrongly from the other post of yours. So what about your human potential how are you directing yourself towards the only thing that you can do in this realm while you still live, whats your target, and what do you think are your obstacles to that target, we seem to be looking for peace, not action in this matrix, life of peace is a state of mind, is that what we are really here for?????????

Thank again xbusymom and sorry for the misunderstanding,

regards to you
roman

[9eagle9]

To give a different perspective on past lives and reincarnation...(unable to resist as this expression rarely has a chance to make itself known and Roman as usual has brought up some highly advanced ORIGIN-al expression here.

What is a past life?

When did you experience the past live ?

A) I didn't experience the past life it was something told to me by a 2nd party.
(no self evidence of past live experience)


B) I had an experience of circumstances that were not in alignment within the framework of my perceptual reality.

---all of our past lives are coincidentally experienced in the present.

so where does that leave us.....NOW?

[Fredenit]

Hello ROMANWKT,

You do not know how right you are, you are far closer to knowing than you can appreciate, when we are born we have no beliefs, no hopes, no fears and above all no intellect. We are a clean sheet ready for corruption, we are then put through a process of so called education, a systematic corruption to control your very thoughts,. Everything that we know or have learned is based upon someone else's thoughts of the subject, many things are given as proof of the truth to what you are told, dates, (no proof)accounts from the scene,( not proof ) photographs, ( not proof .) Yet because you are told by a teacher, a religious person, a medical person, a prime minister, a president, it"s accepted as the truth. The big problem that we all have is how to sort out the truth from fiction. There must be a starting point at which we can undo all this corruption, if you think about what you know, and can say for a fact that it is truth then count them up and make a physical note of it, remember it must be truth, go way back to your earliest days of learning and look to see what you think is truth and then look at why you know it's truth.If it's something that you were told, then you do not know that it is truth. All that you have learned at school, high School, collage, university or the highest academy the world if you like, you will find you can't say for a fact that you have been given the truth. As for beliefs, they are based upon what you wish for or what is acceptable to your current mode of thought and do not have sound foundation, we spend most of our lives either wishing, hoping or believing that which is not a reality which is the same as idealism, which again is based upon something that has not yet happened and people put their belief into this form of so called truth.
The only truth that you have is the truth that you brought with you from our Ancient Home, which is the same Home you will return to. This truth is known as Divine Inner Knowledge and is obtainable through the process known as The Steps to Knowledge, this is truth in all it's essence and can be found at this link :- http://www.newmessage.orgI can assure you, you will learn the essence of all truth there.

[ROMANWKT]

To give a different perspective on past lives and reincarnation...(unable to resist as this expression rarely has a chance to make itself known and Roman as usual has brought up some highly advanced ORIGIN-al expression here.

What is a past life?

When did you experience the past live ?

A) I didn't experience the past life it was something told to me by a 2nd party.
(no self evidence of past live experience)


B) I had an experience of circumstances that were not in alignment within the framework of my perceptual reality.

---all of our past lives are coincidentally experienced in the present.

so where does that leave us.....NOW?

Hi 9eagle9

Well I hope you're not asking me to answer you with some silly notion that we are so eager to accept, that I had my memory removed so that I could experience and learn from scratch, not knowing anything of my past experiences, I the dumb one keep making the same mistake for a million years, and they send some old fogies here to remind me that I am making a mistake, who also doesn't remember that he/she was sent here to warn and help, then the crucify people trying to tell me I am making mistakes, and all the time I have learn t nothing, I am still making mistakes until they burn me or something, that a really good story for the trying to be educated.

is that what you wanted to hear??

Hallo and thanks 9eagle9

regards to you
roman

[ROMANWKT]

Hello ROMANWKT,

You do not know how right you are, you are far closer to knowing than you can appreciate, when we are born we have no beliefs, no hopes, no fears and above all no intellect. We are a clean sheet ready for corruption, we are then put through a process of so called education, a systematic corruption to control your very thoughts,. Everything that we know or have learned is based upon someone else's thoughts of the subject, many things are given as proof of the truth to what you are told, dates, (no proof)accounts from the scene,( not proof ) photographs, ( not proof .) Yet because you are told by a teacher, a religious person, a medical person, a prime minister, a president, it"s accepted as the truth. The big problem that we all have is how to sort out the truth from fiction. There must be a starting point at which we can undo all this corruption, if you think about what you know, and can say for a fact that it is truth then count them up and make a physical note of it, remember it must be truth, go way back to your earliest days of learning and look to see what you think is truth and then look at why you know it's truth.If it's something that you were told, then you do not know that it is truth. All that you have learned at school, high School, collage, university or the highest academy the world if you like, you will find you can't say for a fact that you have been given the truth. As for beliefs, they are based upon what you wish for or what is acceptable to your current mode of thought and do not have sound foundation, we spend most of our lives either wishing, hoping or believing that which is not a reality which is the same as idealism, which again is based upon something that has not yet happened and people put their belief into this form of so called truth.
The only truth that you have is the truth that you brought with you from our Ancient Home, which is the same Home you will return to. This truth is known as Divine Inner Knowledge and is obtainable through the process known as The Steps to Knowledge, this is truth in all it's essence and can be found at this link :- http://www.newmessage.orgI can assure you, you will learn the essence of all truth there.

HI Fredenit

I just looked at the front page of this website, and I see they got you too.

On the beginning of this post, would you read "its all nonsense part 2" and see if my nonsense is the same as this guys nonsense on that website.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the programing we get from birth, but beyond that and up to the website link, you lost me.

thank you and regards
roman

[9eagle9]

Lol. No...it was an honest statement and it asks an honest question. Nor was it intended to be a trick question or bring up another subset of beliefs, or to even suggest that you are in error, I assure you its none of the above but simply a question...

You can answer or choose not to answer, but it does remain. Our past lives are experienced in the present. sooooo....again...where does that live us now...or rather where does it leave past lives at in the now?

And there may not be a readily available answer to this question, which is why it for NOW (lol) remains a question (instead of an answer)



To give a different perspective on past lives and reincarnation...(unable to resist as this expression rarely has a chance to make itself known and Roman as usual has brought up some highly advanced ORIGIN-al expression here.

What is a past life?

When did you experience the past live ?

A) I didn't experience the past life it was something told to me by a 2nd party.
(no self evidence of past live experience)


B) I had an experience of circumstances that were not in alignment within the framework of my perceptual reality.

---all of our past lives are coincidentally experienced in the present.

so where does that leave us.....NOW?

Hi 9eagle9

Well I hope you're not asking me to answer you with some silly notion that we are so eager to accept, that I had my memory removed so that I could experience and learn from scratch, not knowing anything of my past experiences, I the dumb one keep making the same mistake for a million years, and they send some old fogies here to remind me that I am making a mistake, who also doesn't remember that he/she was sent here to warn and help, then the crucify people trying to tell me I am making mistakes, and all the time I have learn t nothing, I am still making mistakes until they burn me or something, that a really good story for the trying to be educated.

is that what you wanted to hear??

Hallo and thanks 9eagle9

regards to you
roman

[ROMANWKT]

Hehehe it wasn't a serious answer anyways 9eagle9, I am sure it will stay unanswered, I have many years ago followed family on documents that had children that remembered their past life, it was very interesting, and some scored very high in past knowledge which the reporters were able to verify, I always keep a open mind for all things, I am still waiting. for all the thing that I have said, I wait for somebody to slap me silly with some proof.

Thank you for that 9eagle9

regards to you
roman

[9eagle9]

In lieu of recent exchanges and expressions brought up recently its questionable if anyone is 'free' to believe anything they want.

One's thoughts or beliefs may not be their own, that is being demonstrated on this forum lately and as you just recently noted, Roman.

Believing other people's thoughts and then claiming them as their own.

Very obvious, right there for the observation even as this phenom exists and grows daily, the denial of this habit grows in relations.


Funny eh?

[Hervé]

To give a different perspective on past lives and reincarnation...(unable to resist as this expression rarely has a chance to make itself known and Roman as usual has brought up some highly advanced ORIGIN-al expression here.

What is a past life?

When did you experience the past live ?

A) I didn't experience the past life it was something told to me by a 2nd party.
(no self evidence of past live experience)


B) I had an experience of circumstances that were not in alignment within the framework of my perceptual reality.

---all of our past lives are coincidentally experienced in the present.

so where does that leave us.....NOW?

Indeed, all of it is in the now as expressed in someone's famous quote saying something like "An individual is the sum up of its past experiences."

However, regarding living all of them coincidentally in the present doesn't quite make it, since most of these memories are below consciousness for most and operate on the same level of "post-hypnotic suggestions" and therefore not triggered into action by current environment since it's lacking all the post hypnotic triggers (eg "gladiators" in an arena with lions, etc... unless going to see a movie or going to a zoo).

In that same vein, watch kids play with transformers or "Star Wars" or knights of the round table and you may get an idea of when these memories stacked in the "now" surface into actions in the "right here, right now!"

[RedeZra]

let God be truth

and let us live life

til time is up


to think that a human being can come up with truth

is a waste of time


life is too short for such nonsense

[Mozart]

... I wait for somebody to slap me silly with some proof.




ROMANWKT ~


You can consider yourself slapped silly now.


There are so many cases of clear-cut reincarnation recall amongst young kids who remember, amongst other things:

1) Their sex in a previous incarnation immediately prior to the current one; and,


2) Their names that they had; and,


3) Where the lived; and,


4) Who were their mothers, fathers and siblings, including names; and,


5) When the lived; and,


6) What they did for a living and how they died, etc.


Just google this " Children recalling " and Google will finish that for you by suggesting " past lives " to be added. It's THAT COMMON of a search term! Think about that.


And think about the odds -- statistically -- of just ONE kid getting 10, 15, 20+ specific facts correctly -- their own names; names of their parents, siblings; where they lived, etc, etc. down pat and proven as FACT, based on the historical records of the previous lives lived.


Getting just ONE NAME RIGHT is a major slim chance of a kid getting that right. Then add to that the names of their siblings in a previous lifetime that checks out in historical records; then add to that where they lived, etc, etc -- what odds do you think of just ONE kid getting all that right?


It's like millions to one odds, man. Like winning the lottery.


And add to that hundreds of recorded cases of children's past life recalls that check out historically, let alone thousands, let alone hundreds of thousands.


Dude, if you have honestly researched just a fraction of the 56,500,000 results from " children recalling past lives " and still maintain that you've not been slapped silly with no proof, then you will be clearly be in denial and refusing to give up a belief system of the idea that reincarnation is bunk.


Beware that belief systems are addictive and beware that changing one's mind is far more difficult than changing a house that's already built.


~Mozart

[9eagle9]

One.... this is information given to you from external sources. Roman has remarked on this phenom, and then I remarked on it and yet it seems to be a continuous unbreakable pattern for some.

The children short of teleporting back in time, dropping out of this life to go back in time to enjoy another before returning to this one,....these children have experienced these events in the present. Have recalled them in the present.

Recall has nothing to do with the present other than recall is made known in the present. . Obviously, and providing of it's own evidence. You have provided no evidence, simply more information coming from 2nd or 3rd party sources whom you are choosing to believe.

I'd not be so quick to slap because you are no where even close to comprehending the question let alone supplying an answer.

NOW...(he he) if you care to relate your past life experiences, that nudges us a bit further into what Roman is attempting to express.





... I wait for somebody to slap me silly with some proof.




ROMANWKT ~


You can consider yourself slapped silly now.


There are so many cases of clear-cut reincarnation recall amongst young kids who remember, amongst other things:

1) Their sex in a previous incarnation immediately prior to the current one; and,


2) Their names that they had; and,


3) Where the lived; and,


4) Who were their mothers, fathers and siblings, including names; and,


5) When the lived; and,


6) What they did for a living and how they died, etc.


Just google this " Children recalling " and Google will finish that for you by suggesting " past lives " to be added. It's THAT COMMON of a search term! Think about that.


And think about the odds -- statistically -- of just ONE kid getting 10, 15, 20+ specific facts correctly -- their own names; names of their parents, siblings; where they lived, etc, etc. down pat and proven as FACT, based on the historical records of the previous lives lived.


Getting just ONE NAME RIGHT is a major slim chance of a kid getting that right. Then add to that the names of their siblings in a previous lifetime that checks out in historical records; then add to that where they lived, etc, etc -- what odds do you think of just ONE kid getting all that right?


It's like millions to one odds, man. Like winning the lottery.


And add to that hundreds of recorded cases of children's past life recalls that check out historically, let alone thousands, let alone hundreds of thousands.


Dude, if you have honestly researched just a fraction of the 56,500,000 results from " children recalling past lives " and still maintain that you've not been slapped silly with no proof, then you will be clearly be in denial and refusing to give up a belief system of the idea that reincarnation is bunk.


Beware that belief systems are addictive and beware that changing one's mind is far more difficult than changing a house that's already built.


~Mozart

[xbusymom]

NOW...(he he) if you care to relate your past life experiences, that nudges us a bit further into what Roman is attempting to express.



ok, here is my experience... and technically it is not proof for you unless we can do a vulcan mind-meld so that you can experience the same thing I did...
but, it went beyond my knowledge of reality at that time... and there was a thread - way back then, in the original forum- about the whether the past life recall is only a way to tap into the vibrational equivelant of your state of being at the time of asking the Source-energy your question.


Although I might have been someone important or famous in a past life, I have only needed to explore 4 previous/alternate incarnations for the current life lesson. (and those 4 were just regular PEOPLE- I didn't even know what my names were)

Just before deciding on going through with the divorce, I asked my higher self to show me any relevant issues and ties to my then (- almost 20 years ago) current husband and what I was supposed to be working on at this time (whatever this life lesson, perception, issue- was).

I was shown my lifetime(s)
1)- as a much older brother to my [husband]/-younger brother and was unhappy at having to sacrifice my dream and saved 'university 'tuition so I could TAKE CARE OF him because our parents died.
2)- a catholic nun ; unhappy with the life of sacrifice and the severe restrictions of that lifestyle and of having to TAKE CARE OF the FATHER-Regent (?)
3)- a hooker and unhappy with having to TAKE CARE OF others needs
4)- a housewife in the victorain era and unhappy at being a non-person who was expected to TAKE CARE OF husbands' needs (and whoever else 's needs that hubby ordered me to)

...and compare those past lives to this lifetime

I heard those same words from current hubby- I want you to TAKE CARE OF me

the TAKE CARE OF lesson was about not having to ”be responsible for/ accept responsibility for” anyone's actions and decisions for their life experiences in their lives... to such a point as to exclude my own needs and desires
… finding the balancing point of caring ABOUT other people but not be responsible FOR them.
I needed to only be responsible for my life experiences and decisions-

and I have been bumping up against LOTS of situations (now that I am consciously aware of what I am working on) this lifetime to help me exorcise that demon / practice fine-tuning a different response

all I know is that I asked for information on why I was experiencing restriction/lack/ and unhappiness in this life... and the above info is the explanation I received.

[9eagle9]

It's evidence that you experienced SOMETHING and it was not something imposed on you consciously by a second or third party.

Now this does not mean precisely that this was a past life.

It could have been imposed on you unaware .

What you have described are archetypical events that are more related to the psyche than past life.

- a catholic nun ; unhappy with the life of sacrifice and the severe restrictions of that lifestyle and of having to TAKE CARE OF the FATHER-Regent (?)
3)- a hooker and unhappy with having to TAKE CARE OF others needs


As a counselor I have just in the last two months unwinded three such situations like this. This suggests to me this is archetypical in nature. Not that it isn't helpful in clearing out one's inner mess, it just debateable if it is life or archetypical filter related. That may be important on it's own.

The reason I bring this up is once I cleared out all my archetypical crap, I was left with the realization that I had no previous dependable incarnations--I have no idea if this is at all meaningful or not. Not that clearing out the archetypical stories weren't helpful but....what was I left with.

did they cease to exist? Does the past exist?

What creates time?

Being anchored in the events that are behind the present (if one views present as zero)

[Mozart]

I'd not be so quick to slap because you are no where even close to comprehending the question let alone supplying an answer.




9eagle9 ~


Who are you to tell me that I'm "no where close to comprehending the question"? The way that you put it was insulting and I'm not going to accept insults from anyone.


I do realize Roman's point of experiential basis of thinking/thoughts/beliefs, but I was addressing his insistence that there's "no proof" of reincarnation.


But the experiential-only approach of "owning" your own thoughts ... well, it's rather narrow, really.


Do you believe that:


1) Atoms exist?


2) Black holes exist?


Etc? Things that you've not seen and that you rely on others to tell you that they exist? Those things are "outside" sources of information.


The vast majority of information in both of your heads easily have likely started from outside sources, only to find ways into your heads, yes?


Are your thoughts really that original? Tracing where thoughts come from is probably the ultimate rabbit hole experience that one can have, I bet.


~Mozart

[9eagle9]

That isn't proof of reincarnation, its second and their hand accounts.

If you have never been made aware of this form of expression chances are its not coming from something other than myself. We are working on Origin-al expression here not recyecled thoughts and stories in case you didn't notice.

That is why I asked XBusy Mom her evidence of past life, regardless of what occurred it is something she experienced.

That is not your evidence of proof of past life, you are simple offering the accounts of others and asking us to accept them it as proof.

This seems to be a habit with people that prefer outside information rather than direct experience.

i neither believe nor disbelieve that atoms exist and blackholes exist. I don't have to believe either in order to exist.

[xbusymom]

It's evidence that you experienced SOMETHING and it was not something imposed on you consciously by a second or third party.

Now this does not mean precisely that this was a past life.

that is not to say it wasnt either... unless you have the same experience, you cannot correctly judge what I dealt with.



- a catholic nun ; unhappy with the life of sacrifice and the severe restrictions of that lifestyle and of having to TAKE CARE OF the FATHER-Regent (?)
3)- a hooker and unhappy with having to TAKE CARE OF others needs


that is only 2 out of the 4... what do you say about the others?



As a counselor I have just in the last two months unwinded three such situations like this. This suggests to me this is archetypical in nature. Not that it isn't helpful in clearing out one's inner mess, it just debateable if it is life or archetypical filter related. That may be important on it's own.

The reason I bring this up is once I cleared out all my archetypical crap, I was left with the realization that I had no previous dependable incarnations--I have no idea if this is at all meaningful or not. Not that clearing out the archetypical stories weren't helpful but....what was I left with.

only 2 months training... my dad was a PHD psychologist- and I was raised with the premise that each person has their take on what any given incident, or situation means according to what they are experiencing in their lives... and unless you have lived that persons life up to any point of advice/counseling, you have No clue whether it is considered true or beneficial for that person.

so please stop insisting that everyone see things as you do.

[9eagle9]

The other two are archetypical in nature, although I have not had a client directly confess to me anything in my last two months of counseling sessions (please re read that statement) that so closely aligns with the archetypical stories that you related.

I didn't have two months training as a counselor, read my post again and take your filters out. There is no where in my post that suggests I have two months training as a counselor. The unfiltered literate person would know that to be in the previous two months as a counselor I have seen your archetypical story revealed to me in session in a pattern that is no longer ignorable or chalked up to coincedence.

You have made an assumption based on a defensive thought and prejudiced belief .Your cognitive deficiency in no way reflects on me. I have evidence; you have ASSumption.

Because your father was a psychologist, which is what all religious filters are based in , no way establishes that you are adept at the psyche either and provides further evidence that people establish their reality by basing it on external 2nd and 3rd party tellings. Because your father had rigid indoctrination doesn't suggest to me that you are doctrine free either.

The bottom line here not to wade through everyone's defense systems concerning their beliefs is that the more you clear the issues concerning past lives, those lives disappear. They no longer exist. Apparently they only existed at the moment of recall anyway. This has quite a lot to do with zero point. Not everyone comprehends the notion because they are very much attached to 'who they were' never challenging that perhaps that is not entirely correct either. People seem very comfortable and pre conditioned to accept who they are not, so this would be a easily inserted means of distorting one's reality.

I have no fear that you will ever observe things the way I do however your inability to observe things the way in this cognitively filtered way may cause you a great deal of trouble eventually. I suspect that it already has.

I find it amusing that people would be so defensive about finding out their past lives were not.

if people are reluctant to give up their past life 'storie's I can imagine how difficult it would be to give up this one.

[sunnyrap]

I had a past life regression facilitated by a psychologist trained and licensed to do so a few years ago. She had done a great many of them previous to mine and had been trained by a recognized expert in it. It was a fascinating experience. I was not convinced in my own mind that what I had experienced in the regression was not something my unconscious mind dredged up from bits and pieces of second hand experience (books, movies, others' stories, etc.). She told me part of the training for doing this work was learning to read eye movements; that the eyes tracked differently when dreaming/imagining than when remembering. She told me my eye movements indicated I was remembering. The lifetime pulled up by the regression seemed to be as a young girl living with her father on a Civil War era farm, i'm guessing in the deep South. It was vivid and not a bit romantic. It was like looking at a live scene through a drinking straw--I had to swivel my p.o.v. around to pick up small details of body, dress and environment. She tracked me through the slice of history up to when I came to an early and unhappy end. (The point of the regression was to find links to a current health condition).

[9eagle9]

Past life recall is often second hand information pieced together from random fragments of information in the subconscious that cannot tell fact from fantasy.

Hypnosis regression puts one back in time rather than recalling information in the present.

If this is more dependable is still debatable, because we are still working with programming, language and those trip up words--re-call and re-membering. Re-membering is not always recall of past events but putting fragments back together into a comprehensive unit. Re-member. But its more dependable than conscious recall. The consciousness has a tendency to take the fragments that subconscious burps up and spin them into something that is rational and makes sense, but might not necessarily be true.

It is true though that the body in state expresses certain symptoms at different depths when one is in state.

Regression therapy on its own can be very revealing and it can help one alter circumstances in their life but getting behind the subconscious, the conscious, behind the filters and the programming including what may be brought up in regression and what one recalls then is an entirely different matter and maybe more towards what Roman is speaking about.

Blank slate realms there.

[Hervé]

All right, let's try another tack here... any of youse remember/recall/relive what youse did have for diner yesterday? Is it still in your memory or has it been wiped out blanK?

... because that, by definition, already belongs to "past life," i.e. "not now." If so, is it a construct of the conscious mind grabbing at straws from the subconscious?

So... when individuals remember/recall/relive something that occurred in their earlier years... before birth... during gestation... before conception... etc, in the same maner as they remember/recall/relive yesterday's diner... that too is "past life" material!

[mosquito]

Roman - well done for expressing it so well.

The unfolding debate is clear evidence that you are right !!!

9E9, glad to see someone gets it !!

[SKAWF]

imagine yourself as having taken two paths, at the same time.

path one, everything has been good. no dark forces causing chaos and destruction, and an upbringing which made you aware of who and what you are.

path two, one of chaos and destruction, a controlling elite that has worked for centuries to hide knowledge, and keep us in the dark as to our origins and or purpose.

i think that what those on path two would call 'the truth', those on path one would just call it 'knowledge'

i really do believe that in order to have 'the truth', you must have a lie first.
if we hadnt been put in the situation we are in, we would not need a key 'the truth' to get ourselves out of it.

both things (the lie, and the truth) are in addition to 'what just is'.
the universe and everything in it, already existed long before anyone lied to or, or told us the truth, so if you want knowledge of the universe, and our purpose, thats one thing, but the truth.... well, that may only end up being the remedy to the lie we have been told.

if you really do want to restore a connection with your higher self, dont look to the external. thats not where YOU are.

how can you understand the prison you are in, if you only ever look out of the window?

[Chester]

No, I'm not quoting other people. I'm stating things that are truths that exist outside of our perceptions ...




Hi Mozart ... I was wondering and dude, I am not all that smart (probably too much weed in my younger days) but you start out by saying this and that is "truths outside our perception."


and besides seeing flashbacks of the priests and my mother when I was a kid, if its outside our perception, then how do we know its truths? You see what I mean? Did someone tell you this? Or did you just "know" this? Or was it in that Ra stuff maybe?

Thanks
justoneconfusedman

[9eagle9]

Are you the same person you were 20 years ago? 10 years? 40?

What happened to that person you were when you were 15?

You brought up an interesting word that is dis-similar to the other words of re-call and re-member and that is re-live.

The beginning of this post was initiated in the past.


All right, let's try another tack here... any of youse remember/recall/relive what youse did have for diner yesterday? Is it still in your memory or has it been wiped out blanK?

... because that, by definition, already belongs to "past life," i.e. "not now." If so, is it a construct of the conscious mind grabbing at straws from the subconscious?

So... when individuals remember/recall/relive something that occurred in their earlier years... before birth... during gestation... before conception... etc, in the same maner as they remember/recall/relive yesterday's diner... that too is "past life" material!

[xbusymom]

I was asked for MY EXPERIENCE. I thought the question was presented for Roman to comment on, since he is the OP - my mistake there... And I had already put in a disclaimer that I had thought about and discussed the alterEGO possibilities.


... and there was a thread - way back then, in the original forum- about the whether the past life recall is only a way to tap into the vibrational equivelant of your state of being at the time of asking the Source-energy your question.

But you don't want to acknowledge that – you just want to nitpick peoples posts to death until they give up or give in to you, and now you are starting to call names.


... I have evidence; you have ASSumption. … your inability to observe things the way in this cognitively filtered way ...

Sorry if I hit a nerve...
The facts may well prove you out to be true, but that still does not discount WHAT I experienced and HOW I experienced it.
And NO you don't have evidence either- you did not experience a past life recall, your client did... by your own definition...


Recall has nothing to do with the present other than recall is made known in the present. . Obviously, and providing of it's own evidence. You have provided no evidence, simply more information coming from 2nd or 3rd party sources whom you are choosing to believe.


I have no fear that you will ever observe things the way I do

thats right, and the opposite is also true... you will never observe things the way I do because you and I are 2 different people having separate experiences and living different lives from different perspectives and our own filters we each grew up with...

and if you have managed to grow past your shortcomings, that is great- but that doesn't give you the right to destroy others' viewpoints and personal experiences just because they may not be as far along in their journey as you are now.

Each person gets information on how to overcome their difficulties in a different way that is meaningful to them.

[9eagle9]

I never discounted your experience, you have grown to defensive over your experience to demonstrate the dynamics that is attempted to be conveyed here--it is possible that even though that was your experience it may not belong to you at all. Or that once those issues related to what is recalled a past life are worked through cease to exist. I'm sorry you can't comprehend that but I'm not responsible for your comprehensive.

There is no meaningful way to convey an examination of the topic without people getting their knickers in a twist about it, which speaks volumes on its own.

You have twice demonstrated a reactionary defensiveness to first Roman and then myself over what is simply an exploration, and an attempt to cast a new perception on a old paradigm. Yes you make it clear this threatens your belief system, I understand that.

I may have very well overcame my shortcomings, but that I'm not going to be your excuse for remaining stuck in yours.

Stick with the Abe Hicks crap, its less threatening for you.

Unknown Territory doesn't seem to agree with you.

[xbusymom]

I never discounted your experience, you have grown to defensive over your experience to demonstrate the dynamics that is attempted to be conveyed here--it is possible that even though that was your experience it may not belong to you at all. Or that once those issues related to what is recalled a past life are worked through cease to exist. I'm sorry you can't comprehend that but I'm not responsible for your comprehensive.

There is no meaningful way to convey an examination of the topic without people getting their knickers in a twist about it, which speaks volumes on its own.

You have twice demonstrated a reactionary defensiveness to first Roman and then myself over what is simply an exploration, and an attempt to cast a new perception on a old paradigm. Yes you make it clear this threatens your belief system, I understand that.

I may have very well overcame my shortcomings, but that I'm not going to be your excuse for remaining stuck in yours.

Stick with the Abe Hicks crap, its less threatening for you.

Unknown Territory doesn't seem to agree with you.

so instead of responding to the issues you claim to have posed a question about, you are still just bashing me for my viewpoint...

Hmmm... interesting response for a professional counselor?

[9eagle9]

I didn't bash your viewpoint, I actually reframed it into YOUR experience rather than a 2nd or 3rd party account imposed on you.

I suggested there was evidence of an emerging pattern of archetypical construct which while revealing on your own, doesn't necessarily means it belonged to you.

You also have an emerging pattern demonstrated on other threads of leaping to the defense when it is clear you have no clear idea what is being conveyed.

I suggest that having a father as a psychologist didn't show you much about managing your emotions, this isn't really a paradigm to be threatened by.

[xbusymom]

You also have an emerging pattern demonstrated on other threads of leaping to the defense when it is clear you have no clear idea what is being conveyed.

I suggest that having a father as a psychologist didn't show you much about managing your emotions, this isn't really a paradigm to be threatened by.

can we PLEEAASSSEEE stick to the topic instead of continuing to show that you have a superior vocabulary when telling people they are stupid and uncivilized.


emerging pattern of archetypical construct

since when?


doesn't necessarily means it belonged to you

... MY experience had the information I requested (when I was alone in my house), posed as 'answers' to my question that was relevant to my situation I was desiring a solution to, presented to me in a way I could understand.

if it never 'belonged' to ME, then who's was it?

[Hervé]

Are you the same person you were 20 years ago? 10 years? 40?

What happened to that person you were when you were 15?

You brought up an interesting word that is dis-similar to the other words of re-call and re-member and that is re-live.

The beginning of this post was initiated in the past.


All right, let's try another tack here... any of youse remember/recall/relive what youse did have for diner yesterday? Is it still in your memory or has it been wiped out blanK?

... because that, by definition, already belongs to "past life," i.e. "not now." If so, is it a construct of the conscious mind grabbing at straws from the subconscious?

So... when individuals remember/recall/relive something that occurred in their earlier years... before birth... during gestation... before conception... etc, in the same maner as they remember/recall/relive yesterday's diner... that too is "past life" material!

Good point on re-live, it should have been re-experience.

From the OP, I do understand that, according to the definition of "truth" that is put forth, anything else is an arbitrary creation, incorporation or accretion.

I also understand that when that "zero state" is disabled or incapacitated, all the arbitraries of creation, incorporation or accretion are taking over in the now.

What I was arguing via the past lives arbitraries is that when "zero state" is being disabled (not conscious), these arbitraries (memories) get enacted in the now and substituting for new, appropriate creations. So it goes with beliefs and/or mind-control post-hypnotic suggestions/implants. Although "not-truth," that doesn't make them "not-real" as these are being played out in the now where "zero-state" should be creating anew.

An example could be taking a picture, although as soon as it is taken it becomes "not-truth" and misrepresenting the current "truth," it is nevertheless a snapshot of a moment of truth that has existed, so is a memory. It is a "not-truth," yet it is a glimpse on the reality of a moment of "truth" gone by, a past reality.

[9eagle9]

Ever since there have been archetypical stories and patterns to emerge from one's pysche.

Something that people who work within the confines of one's psyche are more apt to notice than one's who don't.

if it never 'belonged' to ME, then who's was it?

if you'd get off your defensive posture long enough, that is something this questioning and back and forth may lead some insight to. You seem determined that this line of reasoning should not proceed any further because you are threatened by it.

the topic is more about how past lives anchor one in time, not if your past lives are valid or meet some standard. That is determined by you. Creation of one's own personal reality or...story (archetypical story).

I have no idea or evidence if that it was your higher self communicating to you, one can reasonably suspect since your queries revolved around an archetypical situation, then it reasonable to suspect an archonic energy responded to the query. Given how higher self aligned folks are not so defensive your reactions tend to provide evidence in that direction anyway. Which would mean its not you at all reacting to me but whatever is attached to that archetypical story. A higher self is really not that territorial about this sort of back and forth.

If I didn't note previously this is not personal, and the fact you are making it personal tends to be more revealing than anything else.

It's not personal, you are not the only person who has experienced this--bottom line. I suggest you stop making it personal.

[9eagle9]

That is an apt description.

Should arbitrary creation be accepted as truth or at least reality? Or would that be the choice of those having the recollection. There will be those who do not accept it as reality and those who do, which as you see, creates conflict.

My observations of this phenom tend to run along the lines of past dissolution or connectivity. Not the validity or reality of past lives which can only be altered if one detaches from what brings that recall in the first place.

And of course if its a past life being recalled at all.

Again it does beg the question what re-live and re-experience actually implies. To find one suddenly shunted off to re-experience or is it really just a vivid , 'real' seeming recollection.

And to add to the welter of back and forth past life experiences being EXPRESSED in the present.

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

The more we connect 'past life' into the framework of what is occuring now or being expressed in our lives, would that not somehow keep re-anchoring the concept of time?

The difference between the person at 15 and the person at 40 would be.....you have more to recall at age 40.




Are you the same person you were 20 years ago? 10 years? 40?

What happened to that person you were when you were 15?

You brought up an interesting word that is dis-similar to the other words of re-call and re-member and that is re-live.

The beginning of this post was initiated in the past.


All right, let's try another tack here... any of youse remember/recall/relive what youse did have for diner yesterday? Is it still in your memory or has it been wiped out blanK?

... because that, by definition, already belongs to "past life," i.e. "not now." If so, is it a construct of the conscious mind grabbing at straws from the subconscious?

So... when individuals remember/recall/relive something that occurred in their earlier years... before birth... during gestation... before conception... etc, in the same maner as they remember/recall/relive yesterday's diner... that too is "past life" material!

Good point on re-live, it should have been re-experience.

From the OP, I do understand that, according to the definition of "truth" that is put forth, anything else is an arbitrary creation, incorporation or accretion.

I also understand that when that "zero state" is disabled or incapacitated, all the arbitraries of creation, incorporation or accretion are taking over in the now.

What I was arguing via the past lives arbitraries is that when "zero state" is being disabled (not conscious), these arbitraries (memories) get enacted in the now and substituting for new, appropriate creations. So it goes with beliefs and/or mind-control post-hypnotic suggestions/implants. Although "not-truth," that doesn't make them "not-real" as these are being played out in the now where "zero-state" should be creating anew.

An example could be taking a picture, although as soon as it is taken it becomes "not-truth" and misrepresenting the current "truth," it is nevertheless a snapshot of a moment of truth that has existed, so is a memory. It is a "not-truth," yet it is a glimpse on the reality of a moment of "truth" gone by, a past reality.

[Peace of Mind]

Open your eyes, the truth is right in front of your face...it always was. We were just conditioned to overlook it. The masters of obscurity have been busy lately Re-Upholstering the wooly veil. Perhaps it’s the latest fashion trend because the line of followers seems to be growing. The cloth is no longer flimsy, now it’s hardened into fashionable eyewear…or turned into permanent eye blockers (along with a dangling carrot).

Once one takes off these shades… the light shines in, everything is revealed. But, one must have courage to take off the shades and develop that inner-strength allowing others to see who they really are. The shades purpose is to let in some of the light because the full light/truth can be unbearable for some. Sometimes the light can be so strong (due to spending so much time in the darkness), it may cause some to buy new and improved shades…not only to keep out more of the light …but to provide extra comfort as they hide behind their false visions.

Peace

[xbusymom]

Ever since there have been archetypical stories and patterns to emerge from one's pysche.

Something that people who work within the confines of one's psyche are more apt to notice than one's who don't.

if it never 'belonged' to ME, then who's was it?

if you'd get off your defensive posture long enough, that is something this questioning and back and forth may lead some insight to. You seem determined that this line of reasoning should not proceed any further because you are threatened by it.

the topic is more about how past lives anchor one in time, not if your past lives are valid or meet some standard. That is determined by you. Creation of one's own personal reality or...story (archetypical story).

I have no idea or evidence if that it was your higher self communicating to you, one can reasonably suspect since your queries revolved around an archetypical situation, then it reasonable to suspect an archonic energy responded to the query. Given how higher self aligned folks are not so defensive your reactions tend to provide evidence in that direction anyway. Which would mean its not you at all reacting to me but whatever is attached to that archetypical story. A higher self is really not that territorial about this sort of back and forth.

If I didn't note previously this is not personal, and the fact you are making it personal tends to be more revealing than anything else.

It's not personal, you are not the only person who has experienced this--bottom line. I suggest you stop making it personal.

I am not making it personal (aside from the fact that you asked for a personal account of an experience), and I am not on the defensive... I am simply trying to get back to the topic...

it is YOU who are continuing to slant my information to suit your needs...

ok... so to cater to your (CHANGING) parameters... please answer the responses.

if it is not THE PERSON'S experience, then who is injecting that experience into THAT PERSON?

and when did this emerging pattern of archetypal stories develop?

[9eagle9]

Archetypical stories such as you have described have always been around.

come on lady you're the one who is some authority on the subject becaues your father has a phd in pyschology and you don't know about archetypes or archetypical stories or roles that are assumed by them?

Does JUNG ring a bell? No? Ask your father.

I already answered your question. The fact you can't understand the answer doesn't mean I didn't respond to it.

[xbusymom]

Archetypical stories such as you have described have always been around.

come on lady you're the one who is some authority on the subject becaues your father has a phd in pyschology and you don't know about archetypes or archetypical stories or roles that are assumed by them?

Does JUNG ring a bell? No? Ask your father.

I already answered your question. The fact you can't understand the answer doesn't mean I didn't respond to it.

I am going to agree to disagree... because you simply can't resist slinging mud...

I said my father (who has a PHD in psychology) taught me to respect other's viewpoints about their realities...

I never said I was an authority on this issue... quite the contrary, I was asking for information from you … and it seems you cant give it to me without continuing to be flipant and snooty about it.

and I guess that means you win , 9eagle9... I would rather bow out of the discussion than to fight with someone that has no patience with people that arent' up to their “level of intelligence” ... it could have been a good opportunity (for you ) to TEACH someone (ME) something...

Sorry to everyone else in this thread.

[NancyV]

I try not to deal with proclaiming "truth" other than for the convenience of communicating. Since I was young it was quite natural for me to reject others statements about what they told me was true, no matter what subject it was concerning. It was clear to me even in 1st grade that it was mostly about preferences, not truth. One person would tell you that it was right or correct to do something in one way, another would tell you something opposite was true. So I concluded that "truth" was belief, perspective and preference.

It was easiest to get along by finding out what a persons beliefs were, then communicating to them on that level...as though I understood their beliefs. But I had an innate contrarianism which urged me to argue about things I refused to accept as "truth". It took me many years to admit that I LIKED to debate, argue, and attempt to refute others beliefs. Since all beliefs can be refuted it was not actually difficult. Of course any beliefs I adopted temporarily were also eventually refuted since if I couldn't find someone else to show me how silly I was I would end up arguing myself out of it.

As I got older and read a LOT I also found that even so called historical facts differed from one writer to another. There were many translations of the bible with differing views and much material deliberately left out or changed. Even E=MC squared, a basic truth of physics given to us by Einstein has been "disproven". But in my opinion if something can be disproven that is still not "proof" of anything. Eventually I became very comfortable with not knowing anything and not believing anything. The more I read and the more I knew what others THOUGHT they knew....the less I knew.

Eventually my search for some meaning or reason for this life took me to years of meditation, leaving my body hundreds of times, traveling through all the different "densities" or dimensions and up to the Source. I suppose I could easily think that these experiences have shown me "truth", and at times I can fall into thinking that it is like this for every soul in the creation. When I become the Source I participate in the creation and see and feel and know that I am all souls, that I am living all lives that have ever been lived. Can I prove any of this? Of course not...nor would I even care to attempt to prove anything to anyone. It would be futile since nothing can actually be proved. How can you prove a creation, an illusion....and who is there to prove anything TO?

I call the Source the All and None. In my experience it is Nothing AND Everything at the same time....concurrently. What another would feel when merging with and becoming the Source or how they would interpret that in order to tell other separated parts of themselves here in this density is not something I know, nor do I care. Our interpretations here are condensed down into the slow vibratory frequency of thought and expression of those thoughts....words. Thoughts and words are a miniscule part of an experience. I would like to tell you how blissful, how loving and glorious becoming aware of being the Source is....but who truly understands what "love" is unless they have experienced it? Depending on which density we are presently aware of inhabiting...love is felt and understood differently.

There is no truth, there are only preferences, choices. It's like being in a candy store and someone telling me that mars bars are the best. But I like chocolate bars! We're in a candy store and we each get to choose our own candy...and our tastes change along the way. Our perspectives change.

Since I (we) have lived all the lives that have ever or will ever be lived in time and in timelessness, we can occasionally have strong memories of what seems to be a previous life....yes, it is a "previous" and concurrent life. It is concurrent because time is an illusion. "Previous" is only a perspective in time. This is not proof of "reincarnation", at least not in the way most of us understand or think of as reincarnation. I have had several experiences that I can call past life experiences, but I understand that it is a life that all of us could recall. I have studied the children who recall past lives in detail and found them to be quite impressive. Yes, this was a life the child lived...since we all have lived all lives that have ever been lived. We are all one.

[Hervé]

[...]

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

[...]

Whose memories, indeed?

I have attempted to address that fundamental question in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19206-The-Inelia-thread&p=207800&viewfull=1#post207800):


A few words on these different memory lines…

I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the [ball of] yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…



If I understand it correctly, that "interface" is also what Inelia describes as the "Body Intelligence" (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20335-The-Body-Intelligence&p=216413&viewfull=1#post216413)).

One source I found that recounts an abduction from two, if not three, of the component perspectives is Truman Cash in one of his e-books (don't remember whether it's "The Programming of a Planet (http://www.lunahelia.com/docs/cash.zip)" or "Eye of Ra (http://www.lunahelia.com/docs/cash2.zip)?"), that is:

One of Truman's recounts describes an abduction where there's a biological body at the wheel of a car, another body being abducted and worked on by the ETs and then someone witnessing the whole thing... all coming back together to swerve the car from running into the ditch.


My understanding is that the "zero-state" is the one witnessing the whole thing and also known as "YOU" the spirit/higher self/etc... The body being abducted, and the one being implanted with all sorts of false memories, post-hypnotic behaviours and beliefs, I take it as being the "body intelligence" or "interface" or "mind."

In that recount, hypothetically, the biological body recalls: rape, torture, biological samplings imprinted in its flesh (through "interface" actual experience impinging on body cells the same way as stigmata are generated); whereas "Mind" recalls this beautiful loving experience with beings of light and love... and "YOU"/"zero-state" goes: "... WTF?"

So... yeah... know thyself... but mainly, also know what's not "Thyself!"

[crested-duck]

Great OP and thread, good to see you back ROMANWYK ! Sincerely,Rob

[9eagle9]

Your right I don't have any patience with people. I thought everyone knew that. I can't teach anyone anything, if they are not willing to see beneath the surface bs.

I know who wants to do their work and who don't. For those who do I have all the plodding patience in the world.

For those who are willing to delve into veiled things, we'll just carry on and challenge and question everything that everyone else takes for granted.

If the belief systems challenged make others threatened maybe one day they will learn to detach from them, and not wrap their self idenity up in things that have nothing to do with them, but are what Nancy calls preferences.

I can't detach one's self identity for them so its up to them.





Archetypical stories such as you have described have always been around.

come on lady you're the one who is some authority on the subject becaues your father has a phd in pyschology and you don't know about archetypes or archetypical stories or roles that are assumed by them?

Does JUNG ring a bell? No? Ask your father.

I already answered your question. The fact you can't understand the answer doesn't mean I didn't respond to it.

I am going to agree to disagree... because you simply can't resist slinging mud...

I said my father (who has a PHD in psychology) taught me to respect other's viewpoints about their realities...

I never said I was an authority on this issue... quite the contrary, I was asking for information from you … and it seems you cant give it to me without continuing to be flipant and snooty about it.

and I guess that means you win , 9eagle9... I would rather bow out of the discussion than to fight with someone that has no patience with people that arent' up to their “level of intelligence” ... it could have been a good opportunity (for you ) to TEACH someone (ME) something...

Sorry to everyone else in this thread.

[another bob]

Using the mind to look for reality is delusion. Not using the mind to look for reality is awareness. The mind that wants to free itself from all programs is itself a program, just as that which wants to hack the virus is itself an expression of the virus.

There is no “original” thought, nor is there any such thing as an “original” deed. Every thought that any being could possibly entertain has already been thought innumerable times over, and likewise any action. Just so, there are innumerable forums just like this, with threads just like this, and imaginary beings reading, and arguing yes or no to propositions in posts just like this. This universe of phenomena is a grain of sand on an infinite beach, and this beach is but a grain of sand in the totality of manifestation, which is itself of the same nature as last night’s dream.

Furthermore, in this so-called realm of apparent phenomena, there is nothing but delusion, which itself is miraculously empty of any inherent self-nature. Upon careful inspection, some other phenomena apart from the delusion of human beings cannot be supposed nor demonstrated. Because that is so, all apparent phenomena are only delusions. There is no truth, only dreaming.

Moreover, it cannot be proven that having removed delusion there is no delusion. Because delusion is pure by nature, it is self-illuminating. Because that is so, all phenomena are actually perfect props in the dreamy projection of mind called self and world. Because that is so, phenomena appearing in various ways simply represent the synchronous opera of the phantom body and mind – the engaging delight of that which is dreaming all of this.

Likewise, even the apparent Awakened of the past, present, and future cannot transcend the complete purity of delusion, since it is nothing but a virtual reality, a non-binding, transient, and empty modification of consciousness itself, so when the fist is opened, what is there but empty air?

Except in the degree of sense of humor, a difference between ordinary deluded beings and the so-called Awakened cannot be distinguished by the nature of phenomena. Just as the causes and results of a dream appear individually, under the power of complete imputation, determined by one’s angle of vision, filters, memory associations, preferences, and so forth, the individual appearances of the intellect are only flowers planted in the air, consisting of nothing enduring or substantial. What fun!

The full appreciation of this fact grants one nothing, nor does any enlightenment that might accompany its realization. Why? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that there is nobody there in the first place? Otherwise, I don’t know. All I do know is, if one is really going to live in this kind of recognition, then they must be ready and willing to embrace everything without limitations, and yet cling to none of it. Or not -- suit yourself.




eaaYQL7DTO0

[ROMANWKT]

Well you have all been very busy. I dont know if we have moved on any, I am late from work and wont be able to participate in the brawl, but we are pointing at the right direction.

Hi Bob nice to see your still wise and active.

If we are to move on in some understanding of first this realm and our reality, let start from a possible beginning, and then move right up to belief and truth.

Epic of Atrahasis 2450 BCE


1.
When the gods instead of man

2.
Did the work, bore the loads,

3.
The gods' load was too great,

4.
The work too hard, the punishment too much,

5.
The great Anunnaki made the Igigi (“evil minded ones ”)

6.
Carry the workload sevenfold.

7.
Anu their father was king,

8.
Their counselor warrior Ellil,

9.
Their Chamberlain was Ninurta,

10.
Their canal-controller Ennugi.

11.
They took the box of lots

12.
Cast the lots; the gods made the division.

13.
Anu went up to the sky,

14.
And Ellil took the earth for his people.

15.
The bolt which bars the sea

16.
Was assigned to far-sighted Enki.

17.
When Anu had gone up to the sky,

18.
And the gods of the Apsu had gone below,

19.
The Annunaki of the sky

20.
Made the Igigi ("evil minded ones " ) bear the workload.

21.
The gods had to dig out canals,

22.
Had to clear channels, the lifelines of the land.

23.
The gods dug out the Tigris river

24.
And then dug out the Euphrates.

25.
...in the deep
26.
they set up

27.
...the Apsu
28.
...of the land
29.
...inside it
30.
...raised its top
31.
...of all the mountains
32.
They were counting the years of loads

33.
...the great marsh,
34.
They were counting the years of loads.

35.
For 3,600 years they bore the excess,

36.
Hard work, night and day.

37.
They groaned and blamed each other,
38.
Grumbled over the masses of excavated soil:

39.
Let us confront our Warden

40.
And get him to relieve us of our hard work!

41.
Come, let us carry the Lord
42.
The guard of the [prisoner] gods, the warrior from his dwelling.



1.
Then [Kingu] made his voice heard
2.
And spoke to the gods, his brothers:
3.
Come, let us carry
4.
The guard of the [prisoner] gods, the warrior, from his dwelling.

5.
Come, let us carry Ellil,
6.
The guard of the [prisoner] gods, the warrior, from his dwelling.

7.
Now, cry battle!
8.
Let us mix fight with battle!
9.
The gods listened to his speech,
10.
Set fire to their tools,
11.
Put aside their spades for fire,
12.
Their loads for the fire-god.
13.
They flared up.
14.
When they reached the gate of warrior Ellil's dwelling,
15.
It was night, the middle watch,
16.
Ekur was surrounded, Ellil had not realized.

17.
Yet Kalkal was attentive, and had it closed,

18.
He held the lock and watched the gate.

19.
Kalkal roused Nusku.

20.
They listened to the noise of the Igigi.

21.
Then Nusku roused his master,
22.
Made him get out of bed:
23.
My lord, your house is surrounded,
24.
A rabble is running around your door!
25.
Ellil, your house is surrounded,
26.
A rabble is running around your door!

27.
Ellil had weapons brought to his dwelling.

28.
Ellil made his voice heard

29.
And spoke to the vizier Nusku,
30.
Nusku, bar your door,
31.
Take up your weapons and stand in front of me.

32.
Nusku barred his door
33.
Took up his weapons and stood in front of Ellil.

34.
Nusku made his voice heard

35.
And spoke to the warrior Ellil,

36.
'O my lord, your face is sallow as Tamarisk!

37.
Why do you fear your own sons?

38.
'O Ellil, you face is sallow as Tamarisk!

39.
Why do you fear your own sons?

40.
Send for Anu to be brought down to you

41.
Have Enki fetched into your presence.



Chapter 3

1.
He sent for Anu to be brought down to him,

2.
Enki was fetched into his presence,

3.
Anu, king of the sky was present,

4.
Enki, king of the Apsu attended.

5.
The great Anunnaki were present.
6.
Ellil got up and the case was put.

7.
Ellil made his voice heard

8.
And spoke to the great gods:

9.
Is it against me that they have risen?

10.
Shall I do battle...?

11.
What did I see with my own eyes?

12.
A rabble was running around my door!

13.
Anu made his voice heard

14.
And spoke to the warrior Ellil

15.
Let Nusku go out
16.
And find out the word of the Igigi Who have surrounded your door.

17.
A command...
18.
To...
19.
Ellil made his voice heard
20.
And spoke to the vizier Nusku,
21.
Nusku, open your door,
22.
Take up your weapons and stand before me!

23.
In the assembly of all the gods,

24.
Bow, then stand and tell them,
25.
Your father Anu,
26.
Your guard, warrior Ellil,
27.
Your warden Ninurta
28.
And your canal-controller Ennugi
29.
Have sent me to say,
30.
Who is in charge of the rabble?
31.
Who is in charge of the fighting?
32.
Who declared war?
33.
Who ran to the door of Ellil?
34.
Nusku opened his door,
35.
Took up his weapons, went from Ellil

36.
In the assembly of all the gods

37.
He bowed, then stood and told the message.

38.
Your father Anu,
39.
Your guard warrior Ellil,
40.
Your warden Ninurta,
41.
And your canal controller Ennugi
42.
Have sent me to say
43.
Who is in charge of the rabble?
44.
Who is in charge of the fighting?
45.
Who declared war?
46.
Who ran to the door of Ellil?
47.
Ellil...
48.
Every single one of us declared war!
49.
We have put a stop to the digging.

50.
The load is excessive, it is killing us!

51.
Our work is too hard, the trouble too much!

52.
So every single one of us gods

53.
Has agreed to complain to Ellil

54.
Nusku took his weapons

55.
Went and returned to Ellil

56.
My lord, you sent me to...
57.
I went...
58.
I explained...
59.
Saying every single one of us gods
60.
Declared war
61.
We have put a stop to the digging.

62.
The load is excessive, it is killing us!

63.
Our work is too hard, the trouble too much,

64.
So every single one of us gods

65.
Has agreed to complain to Ellil!

66.
Ellil listened to that speech.

67.
His tears flowed.

68.
Ellil spoke guardedly,

69.
Addressed the warrior Anu,

70.
Noble one, take a decree

71.
With you to the sky, show your strength-

72.
While the Anunnaki are sitting before you

73.
Call up one god and let them cast him for destruction



1.
Anu made his voice heard
2.
And spoke to the gods his brothers,
3.
What are we complaining of?
4.
Their work was indeed too hard, their punishment was too much.

5.
Every day the Earth resounded.

6.
The warning signal was loud enough, we kept hearing the noise.

7.
...do
8.
...tasks
9.
While the Anunnaki are sitting before you

10.
And while Belet-Ili the womb goddess is present,

11.
Call up one and cast him for destruction!

12.
Anu made his voice heard and spoke to Nusku

13.
Nusku, open your door, take up your weapons,

14.
Bow in the assembly of the great gods, then stand

15.
And tell them...

16.
Your father Anu, your guard warrior Ellil,

17.
Your warden Ninurta and your canal controller Ennugi

18.
Have sent me to say

19.
Who is in charge of the rabble? Who will be in charge of battle?

20.
Which god started the war?

21.
A rabble was running around my door!

22.
When Nusku heard this,
23.
He took up his weapons,
24.
Bowed in the assembly of the great gods, then stood

25.
And told them

26.
Your father Anu, your guard warrior Ellil,

27.
Your warden Ninurta and your canal controller Ennugi

28.
Have sent me to say,

29.
Who is in charge of the rabble? Who is in charge of the fighting?

30.
Which god started the war?

31.
A rabble was running around Ellil's door!

32.
Ea made his voice heard
33.
And spoke to the gods his brothers,

34.
Why are we blaming them?

35.
Their work was too hard, their pubishment was too much.

36.
Every day the earth resounded.

37.
The warning signal was loud enough, we kept hearing the noise.

38.
There is...

39.
Belet-ili the womb goddess is present-

40.
Let her create a mortal man

41.
So that he may bear the yoke...

42.
So that he may bear the yoke, the work of Ellil,

43.
Let man bear the load of the gods!

44.
...
45.
Belet-ili the womb goddess is present,

46.
Let the womb goddess create offspring,

47.
And let them bear the load of the gods!


1.
They called up the goddess, asked
2.
The midwife of the gods, wise Mami,

3.
You are the womb-goddess, to be the creator of Mankind!

4.
Create a mortal, that he may bear the yoke!

5.
Let him bear the yoke, the work of Ellil

6.
Let him bear the load of the [prisoner] gods!

7.
Nintu made her voice heard
8.
And spoke to the great gods,
9.
On the first, seventh, and fifteenth of the month

10.
I shall make a purification by washing.

11.
Then one god should be slaughtered.

12.
And the gods can be purified by immersion.

13.
Nintu shall mix the clay

14.
With his flesh and blood.

15.
Then a god and a man

16.
Will be mixed together in clay.

17.
Let us hear the drumbeat forever after,

18.
Let a ghost come into existence from the god's flesh,

19.
Let her proclaim it as her living sign,

20.
And let the ghost exist so as not to forget the slain god.

21.
They answered yes in the assembly,

22.
The great Anunnaki who assign the fates

23.
On the first, seventh, and fifteenth of the month

24.
He made a purification by washing.

25.
Geshtu-E, a god who had intelligence,

26.
They slaughtered in their assembly.

27.
Nintu mixed clay
28.
with his flesh and blood.
29.
They heard the drumbeat forever after.

30.
A ghost came into existence from the god's flesh,

31.
and she proclaimed it as his living sign.

32.
The ghost existed so as not to forget the slain god.

33.
After she had mixed that clay,

34.
She called up the Anunnaki, the great gods.

35.
The Igigi, the great [prisoner] gods,

36.
Spat spittle upon the clay

37.
Mami made her voice heard

38.
And spoke to the great gods,
39.
I have carried out perfectly

40.
The work that you ordered of me.

41.
You have slaughtered a god together with his intelligence.

42.
I have relieved you of your hard work,

43.
I have imposed your load on man.

44.
You have bestowed noise on man,

45.
You have bestowed noise on mankind.

46.
I have undone the chains of imprisonment and granted freedom.

47.
They listened to the speech of hers,

48.
And were freed from anxiety, and kissed her feet:

49.
We used to call you Mami,

50.
But now your name shall be Mistress of All Gods.



1.
Far sighted Enki and wise Mami

2.
Went into the room of fate.

3.
The womb-goddesses were assembled.

4.
He trod the clay in her presence;

5.
She kept reciting an incantation,

6.
For Enki, staying in her presence, made her recite it

7.
When she had finished her incantation,

8.
She pinched off fourteen pieces of clay,

9.
And set seven pieces on the right,

10.
Seven on the left.

11.
Between them she put down a mud brick.

12.
She made use of a reed, opened it to cut the umbilical cord,

13.
Called up the wise and knowledgeable

14.
Womb goddesses, seven and seven.

15.
Seven created males,

16.
Seven created females,

17.
For the womb goddess is creator of fate.

18.
He...them two by two,

19.
...them two by two in her presence.

20.
Mami made these rules for people:

21.
In the house of a woman who is giving birth

22.
The mud brick shall be put down for seven days.

23.
Belet-ili, wise Mami shall be honored.

24.
The midwife shall rejoice in the house of the woman who gives birth

25.
And when the woman gives birth to the baby,

26.
The mother of the baby shall sever herself.

27.
A man to a girl...

28.
...her bosom

29.
A beard can be seen

30.
On a young man's cheek.

31.
In gardens and waysides

32.
A wife and her husband choose each other.

33.
The womb goddesses were assembled

34.
And Nintu was present. They counted the months,

35.
Called up the Tenth month as the term of fates.

36.
When the Tenth month came,

37.
She slipped in a staff and opened the womb.

38.
Her face was glad and joyful.

39.
She covered her head,

40.
Performed the midwifery,

41.
Put on her belt, said a blessing.

42.
She made a drawing in flour and put down a mud brick:

43.
I myself created it, my hands made it.

44.
The midwife shall rejoice in the house of the qadistu-priestess.

45.
Whenever a woman gives birth

46.
And the baby's mother severs herself,

47.
The mud brick shall be put down for nine days.

48.
Nintu the womb goddess shall be honored.

49.
She shall call their ...Mami

50.
She shall ... the womb goddess,

51.
Lay down the linen cloth.

52.
When the bed is laid out in their house,

53.
A wife and her husband shall choose each other.

54.
Inanna shall rejoice in the wife-husband relationship

55.
In the father-in-law's house.

56.
Celebration shall last for nine days,

57.
And they shall call Inanna Ishhara.

58.
On the fifteenth day, the fixed time of fate

59.
She shall call...



1.
A man...
2.
A man...
3.
The son to his father...
4.
They sat and...
5.
He was carrying...
6.
He saw...
7.
Ellil...

8.
They took hold of...
9.
Made new picks and spades,
10.
Made big canals,
11.
To feed people and sustain the gods.
12.
600 years, less than 600, passed,
13.
And the country was as noisy as a bellowing bull.

14.
The god grew restless at their racket,

15.
Ellil had to listen to their noise.

16.
He addressed the great gods,

17.
The noise of mankind has become too much,

18.
I am losing sleep over their racket.

19.
Give the order that suruppu-disease shall break out,

20.
Now there was one Atrahasis
21.
Whose ear was open to his god Enki.

22.
He would speak with his god

23.
And his god would speak with him.

24.
Atrahasis made his voice heard

25.
And spoke to his lord,

26.
How long will the gods make us suffer?

27.
Will they make us suffer illness forever?

28.
Enki made his voice heard

29.
And spoke to his servant:

30.
Call the elders, the senior men!

31.
Start an uprising in your own house,

32.
Let the heralds proclaim...

33.
Let them make a loud noise in the land:

34.
Do not revere your gods,

35.
Do not pray to your goddesses,

36.
But search out the door of Namtara.

37.
Bring as baked loaf into his presence.

38.
May the flour offerings reach him.

39.
May he be shamed by the presents

40.
And wipe away his hand.

41.
Atrahasis took the order,

42.
Gathered the elders to his door.

43.
Atrahasis made his voice heard

44.
And spoke to the elders:

45.
I have called the elders, the senior men!

46.
Start an uprising in your own house,

47.
Let the heralds proclaim...

48.
Let them make a loud noise in the land:

49.
Do not revere your gods,

50.
Do not pray to your goddesses,

51.
But search out the door of Namtara.

52.
Bring as baked loaf into his presence.

53.
May the flour offerings reach him.

54.
May he be shamed by the presents

55.
And wipe away his hand.

56.
The elders listened to his speech;

57.
They built a temple for Namtara in the city.

58.
Heralds proclaimed...

59.
They made a loud noise in the land.

60.
They did not revere their god,

61.
they did not pray to their goddess,

62.
But searched out the door of Namtara,

63.
Brought a baked loaf into his presence

64.
The flour offerings reached him.

65.
And he was shamed by the presents.

66.
And wiped away his hand.

67.
The suruppu-disease left them.

68.
The gods went back to their regular offerings.




Ancient Texts

courtesy of evil-one.org

Thank you for all your contributions,

regards
roman

I may not be free to participate until next weekend.

[ROMANWKT]

I see that I have baffled everybody to a full stop, goooood, there is a reason, and its the oldest text that I could find that I know off, we will see where I intend to go with this soon, I am very busy at work.

regards to all as always, I put Bill instead of BOB which I have corrected.

roman

[crested-duck]

If the old text raised a curious sensation in your mind, more great stuff hidden away can be found here :-http://one-evil.org/texts_ancient/magisterium/magisterium_01/magisterium_01_0010.htm

[9eagle9]

One still has the sorting out process between cellular memory and what one is picking up from the collective consciousness.

There are a number of things I would not wish removed from my cellular memory which is my balance. Actually I don't care if that belongs to something else or not...lol. I'm owning it now , he he.

Then again there are a number of things I have removed from cellular memory that actually did belong to me, which promoted actual physical changes.



[...]

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

[...]

Whose memories, indeed?

I have attempted to address that fundamental question in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19206-The-Inelia-thread&p=207800&viewfull=1#post207800):


A few words on these different memory lines…

I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the [ball of] yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…



If I understand it correctly, that "interface" is also what Inelia describes as the "Body Intelligence" (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20335-The-Body-Intelligence&p=216413&viewfull=1#post216413)).

One source I found that recounts an abduction from two, if not three, of the component perspectives is Truman Cash in one of his e-books (don't remember whether it's "The Programming of a Planet (http://www.lunahelia.com/docs/cash.zip)" or "Eye of Ra (http://www.lunahelia.com/docs/cash2.zip)?"), that is:

One of Truman's recounts describes an abduction where there's a biological body at the wheel of a car, another body being abducted and worked on by the ETs and then someone witnessing the whole thing... all coming back together to swerve the car from running into the ditch.


My understanding is that the "zero-state" is the one witnessing the whole thing and also known as "YOU" the spirit/higher self/etc... The body being abducted, and the one being implanted with all sorts of false memories, post-hypnotic behaviours and beliefs, I take it as being the "body intelligence" or "interface" or "mind."

In that recount, hypothetically, the biological body recalls: rape, torture, biological samplings imprinted in its flesh (through "interface" actual experience impinging on body cells the same way as stigmata are generated); whereas "Mind" recalls this beautiful loving experience with beings of light and love... and "YOU"/"zero-state" goes: "... WTF?"

So... yeah... know thyself... but mainly, also know what's not "Thyself!"

[Chester]

[...]

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

[...]

Whose memories, indeed?

I have attempted to address that fundamental question in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19206-The-Inelia-thread&p=207800&viewfull=1#post207800):


A few words on these different memory lines…

I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the [ball of] yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…



If I understand it correctly, that "interface" is also what Inelia describes as the "Body Intelligence" (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20335-The-Body-Intelligence&p=216413&viewfull=1#post216413)).

One source I found that recounts an abduction from two, if not three, of the component perspectives is Truman Cash in one of his e-books (don't remember whether it's "The Programming of a Planet (http://www.lunahelia.com/docs/cash.zip)" or "Eye of Ra (http://www.lunahelia.com/docs/cash2.zip)?"), that is:

One of Truman's recounts describes an abduction where there's a biological body at the wheel of a car, another body being abducted and worked on by the ETs and then someone witnessing the whole thing... all coming back together to swerve the car from running into the ditch.


My understanding is that the "zero-state" is the one witnessing the whole thing and also known as "YOU" the spirit/higher self/etc... The body being abducted, and the one being implanted with all sorts of false memories, post-hypnotic behaviours and beliefs, I take it as being the "body intelligence" or "interface" or "mind."

In that recount, hypothetically, the biological body recalls: rape, torture, biological samplings imprinted in its flesh (through "interface" actual experience impinging on body cells the same way as stigmata are generated); whereas "Mind" recalls this beautiful loving experience with beings of light and love... and "YOU"/"zero-state" goes: "... WTF?"

So... yeah... know thyself... but mainly, also know what's not "Thyself!"

You nailed it - (at least this seems "true" to me). My only true state is the one that is aware (as DI says - Infinite Awareness) - anytime I drop down into the past (including "past lives") I may be giving myself over to some other entity's attempt at influencing my own sovereign mind.

All I really am is the me that I am in the now moment - anything else I think I am is either my own mental masturbation and/or thoughts I am allowing to enter me from an outside entity which may or may not have my best interests in mind... If I do allow the thought forms from outside entities, I better be extremely discerning... this is how I handle this stuff now because I am finally aware as to how much I have allowed myself to be influenced by archontic forces from their various levels of being.

[ROMANWKT]

OK, If these text were written 2450 before Christ, then that should make them 4,450 years old.

There are others a little bit later, and they all basically say the same thing, that were made as a beast of burden, we were made to work for the creators Gods of humans.

I who is the paedophile of my own child and of others, I who has raped and pillaged for a hundred thousand years, I who will kill and steal from you, I who will kill for sex and gold, I who will kill for food and for blood sport, I who will dismember my own species and worse to others, I who will destroy and kill anything in my way, for pride, for revenge, for prestige, for a high, I who will tear you and every living thing that I feel hate and anger towards, I who wants to posses all that is possessble, and will gladly kill for it, I who will kill and destroy for position and wealth, I who will
stab you in the back for jealousy, I who have slaughtered humanity and all life for a God, for an Idea. You can go on and on in human history, its endless, even up to today.

It seem that what these idiots Gods did was to cross us with some beast on this plane, that’s themselves and and whatever walked or crawled on this planet, and ended up with very cleaver dangerous animal called human.

The funny thing that sticks out for me is that they the creators called us the beast, so what’s funny here is that they do not seem to imply that this beastly part came from them. So if it did not come from them the Gods, the creators, the Anunaki, the aliens, that we blame all on, what did they cross us with???

When you count the atomic structure of man’s DNA it totals 666, therefore you are the beast, I am the beast, we all here are the beast, it is us that all the historical warning are all about, its us.

The only thing that historically has been put on man to suppress is his EGO, the beast.

We are the most intelligent and dangerous species here, we may even be cleverer than the idiots that created us.

All that you have learnt and achieved in your life was taught to you, who taught you to kill, to be aggressive, to be hateful, jealousy, lusting, NOBODY you did not have to learn that, its inherent, its inside you, you are a very clever and dangerous animal.

Left without direction in the wild you go completely feral. No Gods, no Angels, no Haven, no Hell, no Soul, just an arsesoul.

To be continued.

roman

[9eagle9]

SCREAMS!!

Arsesoul.

Priceless.

Beats Ass-trals hands down.

[NancyV]

My name is Nancy and I am an ARSESOUL! :p

[another bob]

OK, If these text were written 2450 before Christ, then that should make them 4,450 years old. There are others a little bit later, and they all basically say the same thing, that were made as a beast of burden, we were made to work for the creators Gods of humans.

Greetings my Dear Friend!

Please understand -- history's a lie. The more reality you grant fictional stories, the more confused you'll be.



I who is the paedophile of my own child and of others, I who has raped and pillaged for a hundred thousand years, I who will kill and steal from you, I who will kill for sex and gold, I who will kill for food and for blood sport, I who will dismember my own species and worse to others, I who will destroy and kill anything in my way, for pride, for revenge, for prestige, for a high, I who will tear you and every living thing that I feel hate and anger towards, I who wants to posses all that is possessble, and will gladly kill for it, I who will kill and destroy for position and wealth, I who will stab you in the back for jealousy, I who have slaughtered humanity and all life for a God, for an Idea. You can go on and on in human history, its endless, even up to today.


More stories . . . you are not any of that, never have been, any more than you're the character you might be identified with in a TV drama.




All that you have learnt and achieved in your life was taught to you, who taught you to kill, to be aggressive, to be hateful, jealousy, lusting, NOBODY you did not have to learn that, its inherent, its inside you, you are a very clever and dangerous animal.

Humans are dangerous animals. You are not the human, but are still responsible for the human you are occupying, which is why the play would go more smoothly if we all took responsibility for our animals.




Left without direction in the wild ....

We are never without direction, it's just that we tend by habit to ignore the direction we're being offered.

:yo:

¤=[Post Update]=¤


My name is Nancy and I am an ARSESOUL! :p


http://i48.tinypic.com/8wmkj6.gif

[Lettherebelight]

May God deliver arsesouls...

[Lettherebelight]

Using the mind to look for reality is delusion. Not using the mind to look for reality is awareness. The mind that wants to free itself from all programs is itself a program, just as that which wants to hack the virus is itself an expression of the virus.

There is no “original” thought, nor is there any such thing as an “original” deed. Every thought that any being could possibly entertain has already been thought innumerable times over, and likewise any action. Just so, there are innumerable forums just like this, with threads just like this, and imaginary beings reading, and arguing yes or no to propositions in posts just like this. This universe of phenomena is a grain of sand on an infinite beach, and this beach is but a grain of sand in the totality of manifestation, which is itself of the same nature as last night’s dream.

Furthermore, in this so-called realm of apparent phenomena, there is nothing but delusion, which itself is miraculously empty of any inherent self-nature. Upon careful inspection, some other phenomena apart from the delusion of human beings cannot be supposed nor demonstrated. Because that is so, all apparent phenomena are only delusions. There is no truth, only dreaming.

Moreover, it cannot be proven that having removed delusion there is no delusion. Because delusion is pure by nature, it is self-illuminating. Because that is so, all phenomena are actually perfect props in the dreamy projection of mind called self and world. Because that is so, phenomena appearing in various ways simply represent the synchronous opera of the phantom body and mind – the engaging delight of that which is dreaming all of this.

Likewise, even the apparent Awakened of the past, present, and future cannot transcend the complete purity of delusion, since it is nothing but a virtual reality, a non-binding, transient, and empty modification of consciousness itself, so when the fist is opened, what is there but empty air?

Except in the degree of sense of humor, a difference between ordinary deluded beings and the so-called Awakened cannot be distinguished by the nature of phenomena. Just as the causes and results of a dream appear individually, under the power of complete imputation, determined by one’s angle of vision, filters, memory associations, preferences, and so forth, the individual appearances of the intellect are only flowers planted in the air, consisting of nothing enduring or substantial. What fun!

The full appreciation of this fact grants one nothing, nor does any enlightenment that might accompany its realization. Why? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that there is nobody there in the first place? Otherwise, I don’t know. All I do know is, if one is really going to live in this kind of recognition, then they must be ready and willing to embrace everything without limitations, and yet cling to none of it. Or not -- suit yourself


eaaYQL7DTO0

Thanks to Bob for this post, it says it all for me!

Re the OP 'It's not truth', even Sunyavada (nihilism) is just another philosophy some guys came up with many years ago.

Take your pick, Nietzsche-style (God is dead) with the rest of the 'voidists', or some other concoction based on someone else's experience (or worse, mental speculation).

Good luck finding the Truth...a very slippery eel indeed! Won't be caught unless it wants to be...

Now let's see some real dancing'...

ynh0voEyT-0

[another bob]

Re the OP 'It's not truth', even Sunyavada (nihilism) is just another philosophy some guys came up with many years ago.

Nihilists always get a big surprise at death.

Well, I suppose that's true for just about everyone.


:yo:

[Lettherebelight]

Nihilists always get a big surprise at death.

Well, I suppose that's true for just about everyone.


:yo:

Lol, ain't it 'the truth'!


http://toapapper.blogg.se/images/2009/surprised_45727415.gif


Sorry, couldn't resist..hee, hee...you're right about the sense of humour theory

[crested-duck]

OK, If these text were written 2450 before Christ, then that should make them 4,450 years old.

There are others a little bit later, and they all basically say the same thing, that were made as a beast of burden, we were made to work for the creators Gods of humans.

I who is the paedophile of my own child and of others, I who has raped and pillaged for a hundred thousand years, I who will kill and steal from you, I who will kill for sex and gold, I who will kill for food and for blood sport, I who will dismember my own species and worse to others, I who will destroy and kill anything in my way, for pride, for revenge, for prestige, for a high, I who will tear you and every living thing that I feel hate and anger towards, I who wants to posses all that is possessble, and will gladly kill for it, I who will kill and destroy for position and wealth, I who will
stab you in the back for jealousy, I who have slaughtered humanity and all life for a God, for an Idea. You can go on and on in human history, its endless, even up to today.

It seem that what these idiots Gods did was to cross us with some beast on this plane, that’s themselves and and whatever walked or crawled on this planet, and ended up with very cleaver dangerous animal called human.

The funny thing that sticks out for me is that they the creators called us the beast, so what’s funny here is that they do not seem to imply that this beastly part came from them. So if it did not come from them the Gods, the creators, the Anunaki, the aliens, that we blame all on, what did they cross us with???

When you count the atomic structure of man’s DNA it totals 666, therefore you are the beast, I am the beast, we all here are the beast, it is us that all the historical warning are all about, its us.

The only thing that historically has been put on man to suppress is his EGO, the beast.

We are the most intelligent and dangerous species here, we may even be cleverer than the idiots that created us.

All that you have learnt and achieved in your life was taught to you, who taught you to kill, to be aggressive, to be hateful, jealousy, lusting, NOBODY you did not have to learn that, its inherent, its inside you, you are a very clever and dangerous animal.

Left without direction in the wild you go completely feral. No Gods, no Angels, no Haven, no Hell, no Soul, just an arsesoul.

To be continued.

roman Yes Roman, I too am a very damned dangerous and extremely clever animal called "human" as well as yourself/others. But I have also spent my entire lifetime fighting my inbred instincts that do not work/agree in conjunction with my personal nature.That paragraph about "I", is not "my" personal preferance/nature. Although I have commited a few through life so far, I have since early childhood stood against most all and yelled foul when others do/commit them.I walk my own paths,and make new ones where none presently exist. I sing my own songs and beat my own drum, and take great pleasure and delight in the music and silence of sights/creatures in nature. I also find it easier to communicate and interact with animals versus most people. This thread has innumerable possibilities for self introspection and avenues of thought to explore deeply/answer personal questions that will be different for each of us. I sincerely thank you for returning and putting forth the effort to enlighten others. It's a great reassurance to know others think and ask the same questions that people in general thought I was "crazy" for asking/thinking about.-Rob My Divided Brain-dFs9WO2B8uI

[ROMANWKT]

Hi all and thank you for your response, Hi Rob nice to see you back, and yes ditto its the same here, we are capable of all but choose not to.

Exactly so Bob, we are the controllers and responsible for the beast or animal within. I am staying on this level for the moment as there are unanswered issues prior to the mind game.

So who is the host and who is the parasite??

We can see on very old carving men and women with animal demons as they call it on their shoulders, is the human here indicated as as host and the demons/animal as the parasite.

If we have to control the animal within, we must be then the parasite using its body for our experience in this realm, if we have the dual characteristic via the crossing of two species creating a human form made in the likeness of our creators, then both reside at the same time.

A dog will show great love and affection, great maternal, and paternal characteristics, but when aggravated, a welling from within rides up and it will bite your hand off. Same with a monkey, same with almost all animal, what’s the difference, a human is all these wonderful thing as well, but when aggravated, a welling comes up and he will either rip your head off verbally or physically, what the difference, a few billion more neurons between us????

I will mention one person that a lot of people had read, it his opinion or was he telling us something , in the writing of Don Juan from Casteneda he mentions that we were given their brain and they are inside us, yes the demon brain, that would then be the parasite, or is it.

When all these people who went on this aiawaska trips, I had watched and seen many of your famous people taking the stuff f in the Amazon and other places, and many of the drawing that these people had drawn, and its all ways jungle, snakes, reptiles, voices lecturing, colourful and very animalistic, nothing that we as a normal human would relate too, therefore the question is which part of the brain did DMT stimulate????

So if the brain triggered by DMT shows these types of visionary experiences, then we must be the parasite to that mind and possibly the body.

The problem here is where do we then reside in the bodies scheme of things, is it then the highly magnetised field of the heart brain, or what?????

I know that most will tell me its all in the mind and an illusion, so where did the DMT results come from???

to be continued

roman

The control of the beast and our potential.

[Hervé]

[...]

Casteneda he mentions that we were given their brain...

[...]


Although it's been a while I've read books by Castaneda, from what I recall, he mentions something more like "They've given us their mind...."

That would be the "interface" I mentioned somewhere above, not a biological thing. Another word for that "interface" I take as being the "unsconscious." That's the part hypnotists and ET abductors, and others of the kind, work on for running their unsuspected programs on unsuspecting individuals...

As for drugs' effects and influences, see Carmody's posts here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=489648&viewfull=1#post489648).

[another bob]

Exactly so Bob, we are the controllers and responsible for the beast or animal within. I am staying on this level for the moment as there are unanswered issues prior to the mind game.

So who is the host and who is the parasite??


When drinking water, how do we know if it is hot or cold? Do we need to be told by someone else? Just so, how do we know who and what we are? From the moment of birth we have been subjected to conditioning programs, which are mostly big con jobs, perpetrated by equally clueless folk in order to insure some consensus agreement as to which temporary myth, fantasy, or dream should be taken as real.

We've been told all sorts of fables which nevertheless we've come to believe, thus burying just about any chance of discovering our true nature and condition under heaps of borrowed notions and dreamy assumptions which, short of some existential crisis, we rarely are inspired to question. As long as we grant some reality to such second-hand descriptions, we are their slave.

By imagining that we were born as Tom, Dick, or Mary, we become a slave to the Tom, Dick, or Mary show. The essence of slavery is to imagine oneself to be a process, to have past and future, to have history. In fact, we have no history, we are not a process, we do not arrive, sustain, and then depart.

We can see all as a story, a fictional narrative, a dream, or if so inclined, a performance stage, and in such light, self-liberate. The alternative to that direct recognition is to suffer the fate of some imaginary character, resisting awakening to what's behind the fabricated facade we take ourselves to be. What will you do?


:yo:

[eileenrose]

Interesting thread.

re: "When all these people who went on this aiawaska trips, I had watched and seen many of your famous people taking the stuff f in the Amazon and other places, and many of the drawing that these people had drawn, and its all ways jungle, snakes, reptiles, voices lecturing, colourful and very animalistic, nothing that we as a normal human would relate too, therefore the question is which part of the brain did DMT stimulate????" from Romanwkt.

I recall watching a short video (might have been on this forum...don't know when...maybe someone recalls it) about a shaman who was raised on the aiawaska and used his experiences for healing/whatever. Anyway, he now paints art pictures of what he saw....and it was all these things you described (and more).

And I recall, again, don't remember from what comment or reader, that each of these different types of 'traveling' or 'journey making' type herbs/mushrooms/frog drugs etc., ie trips, each gave the person a different experience (hope someone remembers where this information comes from...I don't).

So something born from the jungle gave jungle type dreams/visions. ....something from the mountains gave different type experiences. Etc.

Where the herb or drug came from defined what types of experiences people had/saw. Am I making sense here?

Very interesting. ...all of it.

[eileenrose]

So what I am saying is only part of the this 'journeying within' was produced by the person's brain/whatever because, perhaps, part of the journey was about the plant/drug itself that was used.

[<8>]

Hi..

Shedding your false identity, by ONLY observing your minds thoughts and emotions.
Any effort and you fall back into the mind game, you can't try to quiet your mind, than you are just using the mind to concentrate.

Challenge your mind, by observing its thoughts and emotions, become the hunter, don't be the prey that suffers, face and taste everything the mind throws at you.
The mind will eventually bring up it's big guns, you will experience death itself, this is the greatest illusion we can experience.

Is you taste for real freedom strong enough within yourself OR do you want stay trapt and suffer?
Every choice is of course okay, nothing is wrong, you aren't really suffering, it's just your mind who makes you think you do.
Everyone is always at peace, the quest is to stop and shred this illusion away and feel the peace that is always within yourself.
By being who you already are.


..8..

[Krullenjongen]

The only thing that could be called the truth is the unchanging, something that never changes ever, that would be a truth of a true state, now think about the unchanging, what is there that never changes, in physical matter everything keep changing its state, therefore it cannot be a truth.

I am coming a bit late to this thread but i read this statement and it made me think.
Is it really true...........that you can't make a true statement about matter?

My "definition of truth would be something like this.
A true statement (about anything) would mean it must be true for everyone, in any place, at all times.
(so i agree with the unchanging factor but added a couple of things)

So back to true statements about matter.
If i am holding an ice cube in my hands and would say "this is an ice cube"
Would that statement be true (even if it is about matter that could change form)???

If someone was holding it a thousand years ago or a thousand years from now, if someone was holding it anywhere on earth or on any other planet, if an alien was holding it or any human being the statement would still hold, so it looks like a true statement or not?

But if i were to hold a cup of water of zero degrees and would say "this water is cold".
Would it still be a true statement???
i would say no because one of the conditions is not met.
If i would say it in a very warm place it would still be true but if i said it in a place where it is much colder than the water the water would warm.

Just something to think about.

[ROMANWKT]

If you are new, please read “its all nonsense part 1 and 2” then hopefully you will understand where we are at and that this is about the phenomena of truth, belief, life and origin.

I see not one of you has really answered anything for this level, we seem to be stuck with just accepting that all is a illusion, but nobody is trying to at least deal with the phenomena that all are plagued with, the phenomena of life should be known by all seekers, then those that have a higher understanding in the realms of mind, would have a better result than sweeping it under the carpet and just saying it the working of the mind, that all it is.

I see Bob starts with how do we know if water is hot or cold?? we have a nervous system that deals with vibrating frequency the phenomena answer would be that hot is just a vibrating frequency that we are prone to, just as the Sun is stone cold, but we are prone to its frequency, so it will burn us, or a micro oven does not go into meltdown when it working, it affect the biological cells in food with high frequency vibration, but it does not affect itself, that’s an explainable phenomena.

This is a nonsense discussion, please continue with your fantasies.

Regards to all, and thank you for participating,

roman

[another bob]

...nobody is trying to at least deal with the phenomena that all are plagued with, the phenomena of life should be known by all seekers

There is a human tendency to anthropomorphize delusional aspects of consciousness by naming them parasites, virii, and so forth. Then of course there is the implication that we have to "do something" to rid ourselves of this "plague". So begins the endless internal struggle, with the mind divided against itself into opposing camps, and the elaboration of this war in life and relationships, manifesting as discomfort, doubt, antagonism, and despair, to which all sorts of methods, schemes, and strategies are applied in hopes of eliminating the "dreaded gomboo".

The wise will go back to the beginning of the conflict, and recognize through insight and inquiry that whatever appears is mind, but mind itself is a shadow. Attempts to catch it and control it are futile. That’s just shadows chasing shadows. One can't control or eliminate a shadow by chasing it or by putting a shadow hand on it, especially while there is still a belief that the mind is real, and that it is something that can be controlled by physical or mental activity. Whatever is seen, smelled, tasted, touched, thought, imagined, or remembered is not real – an hallucination.

Look at the mind. At first there appears to be a steady stream of thoughts which we take to be ours, perhaps infected with all manner of bugs and bothersome critters, so that we can never rest. Earnestly persisting through that smoke parade, eventually the mind becomes quiet and alert. When you look at the mind then and see nothing, relax into that. It is not a dull empty nothing. It is a dynamic stillness. Sitting, standing, walking, lying down -- stay with this stillness. Discard whatever arises, don’t try to manipulate any thought forms. Even if demons or angels appear, discard them. Discard, discard, discard.

At a certain point of ripeness, the light behind the mind will emerge. This is the “second birth” -- spirit baptism. This light will reveal all. When this light is joined with one’s experience, then life will become spontaneous and the way naturally unobstructed. The war with oneself is ended. Peace.


:yo:

[ROMANWKT]

Thank you Bob that was great.

regards as always
roman

[9eagle9]

You don't really have to do anything but examine your thoughts and define whether they are meaningful or not. When one reaches a certain level of awareness they are made made irrelevant or at least irreverent (I notice that people don't like that so all this awareness will not win many popularity contests). Being irreverent towards another's alien thoughts in which they think they own tends to cause them quite a lot of trouble. They cannot separate their real idenity from the artificial one.

"I think I'll have a sandwich" has more meaningful intent than "I think I'll drive into oncoming traffic'. Sandwich thoughts also have more meaning than ascension thoughts: what do I have to do to ascend?

There is no need to do anything because most of this is based on choice. The only thing someone is doing is making a choice.

of course dieters are encouraged to examine their sandwich thoughts to see if its a natural prompt or an alien one (comfort eating). Not that that makes much of a difference I'm a comfort eater, and I know it and stuff my face anyway. But at least i know I'm doing it but I am agreeing to this artificial thought. .

And I KNOW it. So I just accept it, I'm making agreement with it. I know this. and the alien KNOWs that I'm making agreement with it.

Now where the conflict comes in and I'm considering eating a carton of ice cream is when I say to the alien thought, Hey you know, I just want the ice cream because its cold and depressing outside. Now I have engaged in a battle. It will insist otherwise and come up with a million reasons why I should snorf down a 8000 calories in ten minutes.

"You deserve it"

How. If I saved someone from a burning building I could accept that I might deserve a medal but what does ice cream have to do with deserving anything?

Artificial hunger. Then again I'm not on a diet so this isn't causing me a whole lot of inner distress like diet failure, food guilt and the other chain fall of sticky artificial emotions and thoughts

One may be considered a naturally occurring thought based on a naturally occurring prompt and the other is considered alien. Alien thoughts like the ego they impose leverage on don't like to be contradicted they like to be agreed to. (notice the source of our conflicts?). What happens when YOU don't agree with other people's alien thoughts.....conflict.

Conversely what if we said to ourselves, Maybe I don't care if someone doesnt' agree with a thought that doesn't belong to me in the first place. (The kerfluffle over David Wilcocks--everyone fighting over his thoughts as if they belonged to him...or them. After all its not they who may be in error, its David Wilcocks. This is an attachment to not one's own thoughts, but David Wilcocks-he becomes the parasitical energy. )

does anyone now understand why I don't venerate him.

So while not dieting that comfort eating tends to catch up to you eventually, but I noticed the other day (in spite of the scales) that I looked pretty damn ripped. So I said to myself, Wow you look good. And promptly lost 7 pounds in a week. Apparently the alien thought not getting the neccessary emotional reaction or thought gave up and dropped off taking its puppy fat with it. That's what it wants, a means of further attaching by emotional reaction.

But its not just thoughts its chains of emotions developed from other thoughts that have to be released as well, that keep people playing the mind game.

So the cart before the horse, the chicken before the egg or vice versa. The thought causes the emotion and the emotion keeps us changed to the thought?

Because people invest so deeply into emotions though and thoughts this is not so much out of our control, or that anything really has to be done, it has become always a matter of choice. People choose to keep thinking, and keep feeling that certain emotions have some meaning when they are artificially prompted.

I don't see many people attempting to do this and the thing is you really DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

Of course I'm not honestly airing when I read other people's opinons, thoughts and ideas and remarking "that's meaningless" Because they tend to THINK I'm saying ," You're stupid or you don't have any meaning" when I'm really just saying....that's a meaningless thought. Give me a day to respond to everything like that and you will see the entire forum in an uproar. Neither here not there, or true or untrue.

"I'll have a sandwich" doesn't really have a meaning to it after all. There's a purpose to it certainly but no meaning.

One detaches from looking for meaning.

Think about the chair you are sitting in as you read this thread (assuming you are seated ) and tell me what the meaning of that chair is? There is none. name me one meaning to the construct you have your arse parked in? And you know what my typical response is when I ask that question. People more often than not will tell me, "I never sit down."

They evade the implication that perhaps not everything has a meaning to it. The y will out right lie to evade the thought that perhaps there is not meaning in the things we think have meaning.


My daughter who is 16 and a half came home from school , wore out from another day's drama and announced, "Madre I have realized its not other people's dramas bothering me its the way I keep thinking about their drama that is bothering me. "



(and shortly after)" MOTHER, they are not even conflicted over anything that is real, it's all made up. "

Uh-huh.


"So ..does this stop when I get older?"

Oh no. Not at all, the game just becomes more sophisticated passed off as 'maturity', in fact there's a number 40, 50, 60, 70 year olds who haven't' grasped what you are knowing now.

"So you have to be like 80 in order to get his. But then you're, like, dead! Or getting ready to die. "

Hmm....maybe that's not coincidental. What happens to Alzeheimers people when they lose their mind?

"They die! Is that what causes people to die, they just give up all the drama thoughts and ****? "

She has recently come to the conclusion that only the good die young, and horrible mean and nasty are still staggering around at age 100, smacking people with canes. Attachments.

So we elder folks may be dropping the ball but there is some hope for the youngs uns.

Some of them anyway . I've always told mine "don't believe everything I tell you' but that tends to leave the excuse for the other parent to deem me an unfit parent.

We still have peer pressure..lol.

Still I'm pretty impressed; I didn't have such a clean slate at that age.

Good question for 16.5 year old. More importantly she seemed more amazed at this revelation than disturbed by it. Another difference I see in my child when compared to folks 3 x's her age.

[eileenrose]

re: "You don't really have to do anything but examine your thoughts and define whether they are meaningful or not." from 9eagle9

There is nothing worth examining (when it comes to thoughts....so I assume you meant 'see' that there are thoughts and detach from them 9eagle9) and there isn't anything 'meaningful' to look at when it comes to the mind and the endless chatter it generates.

For example, (I rather not go into the basics here...ie. being present with what is),
if anger is coming up (an emotion...which means you have already detached from the mind's endless chattering...enough to be still long enough to notice you are emotional invested in something), just be with it.

You don't figure it out.
Ever.

If you try to 'examine' or 'see meaning' you will be back in the mind (if this is a discussion about how useless the brain really is to us all. It is good for running our bodies, of course....not much else, as far as I'm concerned. Thinking is a waste of time. Knowing is the way to go.).

[9eagle9]

Certainly they are worth examining, spirit works through the consciousness the same as thoughts. It's easy to confuse knowing with thinking.

The Critical barrier often time refuses true knowledge, by judging it with an "I think".

"I knew the ceiling was going to collapse but I didn't want to say anything because it sounded stupid".

Its unraveling what is knowing and what is thinking that heaves people up.

This isn't a primer for or platform for people in the know, they know.

It's the people that don't know that are stuck in their thoughtforms.

but I found it makes little difference if it's mentioned one way or the other, its all a matter of choice.

[eileenrose]

re: "Its unraveling what is knowing and what is thinking that heaves people up. "

I thank God everyday that people still have intuition. Even if it lays buried.

Thanks for responding (9eagle). You are refreshing.

[eileenrose]

Just a technical point (if you are interested 9eagle9)

(and I can PM in future if you so desire).

re: "I found it makes little difference if it's mentioned one way or the other"

It is never about the other person.
It is always about us.

If seeing someone else stuck helps you see yourself more clearly, then that is what you need right now.
THe universe will always give you exactly what you need (but never what you want).

[another bob]

THe universe will always give you exactly what you need (but never what you want).


Then just want what you need -- no problem!

We want what we don't have and so we suffer. On the other hand, if we want what we have (what the universe has already bestowed on us), and refrain from craving for that which we believe is lacking, we can experience the natural peace of equanimity. Most of our imagined desires are the result of being told that we need this or that toy or experience or self-image to be happy. If we inquire deeply into our actual needs, it turns out to be quite a different story than what the advertisers and marketers claim (whether they be commercial, political, or religious).

:yo:

[eileenrose]

It is called the 'hungry ghost' syndrome (by Buddhists), Another Bob.

[another bob]

It is called the 'empty ghost' syndrome (by Buddhists), Another Bob.

I believe you mean "Hungry Ghost". At the monastery, we always left a portion of our meal for them, and I found that to be a thoughtful practice.

As we learn to study ourselves and our relations, we can notice something very interesting in regard to wanting:

Those who complain about not getting what they want tend to get more and more to complain about, while those who express gratitude for what they have tend to get more and more to be grateful about. Funny how that works!

[jorr lundstrom]

Only wanting wot we truly need is called a tragedy, by the market.

And gratitude by the schaman. LOL


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[eileenrose]

thanks, another bob (fixed quote).

[another bob]

thanks, another bob (fixed quote).

Speaking of Hungry Ghosts . . .

Confucius had a dream where he was taken to visit hell. It was not at all like the stories go, and there was no sign of fires or demons. Instead, there was a succulent banquet spread out upon an immense table, and all were gathered around. The problem was, the only way the assembly was allowed to eat the food was with chopsticks 5 feet long. Try as they might, for eternity the inhabitants were unable to lift one bite to their mouths, nor could they ever resolve the problem and so they suffered endless pangs of hunger.

Then Confucius was taken to heaven, but found the same banquet spread out before the diners, yet they too had to contend with 5 foot long chopsticks, only here they lifted the food with those chopsticks into each other's mouths, and all were satisfied.

[eileenrose]

good one (story above).

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Of course people are in a hell...hell being a state of mind (a state of against-ness or 'no' or 'being negative').
There is no actual hell.

just saying (for clarification).

Which means there is no place called heaven....just a heavenly type state exist....of peace and being with what is (or being at 'yes' with existence).

...just having fun.

[Eram]

It is called the 'empty ghost' syndrome (by Buddhists), Another Bob.

I believe you mean "Hungry Ghost". At the monastery, we always left a portion of our meal for them, and I found that to be a thoughtful practice.

As we learn to study ourselves and our relations, we can notice something very interesting in regard to wanting:

Those who complain about not getting what they want tend to get more and more to complain about, while those who express gratitude for what they have tend to get more and more to be grateful about. Funny how that works!

In a way the Universe acts like a wishing machine:
Humans are enlightened beings to begin with. When you want to become enlightened really bad, the universe responds accordingly, with giving you the experience of not being enlightened, because wanting something really bad, expresses the conviction that you are not enlightened at this moment.

[Lettherebelight]

Only wanting wot we truly need is called a tragedy, by the market.

And gratitude by the schaman. LOL


All is well


Jorr 2.0

Thank you Jorr for this gem!! Never heard it put so well and so compactly...

'True eloquence is the truth, spoken concisely'

[9eagle9]

That is precisely it. I have had to detach from people clamoring at me for what they don't want. I can't provide to them for what they don't want in the first place. What that show me is that I am attempting to help people who don't want help (even though they say they do). I believed them when they said they wanted help , they wanted to know themselves and empower themselves only because I knew that I did. Everyone always says that we are all One we are all the same, and I believed that too. We are not. I took them at face value and realized this was not about them, it was about me.

So it makes no difference really.

That my failure to help people was not mine to own.

I disagree with the universe not getting me what I want, or rather, I tend to always get what I want but then again the universe doesn't have anything to do with it, its me....

The universe doesn't get to determine what I need or want, I do. If I am not getting what I need or want its because I am not allowing myself to have it.

right?

It's always about us.


Just a technical point (if you are interested 9eagle9)

(and I can PM in future if you so desire).

re: "I found it makes little difference if it's mentioned one way or the other"

It is never about the other person.
It is always about us.

If seeing someone else stuck helps you see yourself more clearly, then that is what you need right now.
THe universe will always give you exactly what you need (but never what you want).

[crested-duck]

Hi all and thank you for your response, Hi Rob nice to see you back, and yes ditto its the same here, we are capable of all but choose not to.

Exactly so Bob, we are the controllers and responsible for the beast or animal within. I am staying on this level for the moment as there are unanswered issues prior to the mind game.

So who is the host and who is the parasite??

We can see on very old carving men and women with animal demons as they call it on their shoulders, is the human here indicated as as host and the demons/animal as the parasite.

If we have to control the animal within, we must be then the parasite using its body for our experience in this realm, if we have the dual characteristic via the crossing of two species creating a human form made in the likeness of our creators, then both reside at the same time.

A dog will show great love and affection, great maternal, and paternal characteristics, but when aggravated, a welling from within rides up and it will bite your hand off. Same with a monkey, same with almost all animal, what’s the difference, a human is all these wonderful thing as well, but when aggravated, a welling comes up and he will either rip your head off verbally or physically, what the difference, a few billion more neurons between us????

I will mention one person that a lot of people had read, it his opinion or was he telling us something , in the writing of Don Juan from Casteneda he mentions that we were given their brain and they are inside us, yes the demon brain, that would then be the parasite, or is it.

When all these people who went on this aiawaska trips, I had watched and seen many of your famous people taking the stuff f in the Amazon and other places, and many of the drawing that these people had drawn, and its all ways jungle, snakes, reptiles, voices lecturing, colourful and very animalistic, nothing that we as a normal human would relate too, therefore the question is which part of the brain did DMT stimulate????

So if the brain triggered by DMT shows these types of visionary experiences, then we must be the parasite to that mind and possibly the body.

The problem here is where do we then reside in the bodies scheme of things, is it then the highly magnetised field of the heart brain, or what?????

I know that most will tell me its all in the mind and an illusion, so where did the DMT results come from???

to be continued

roman

The control of the beast and our potential. Had to ponder a while on this post.I'll try to simplify the many directions I went with this.-Since nothing is truth and just a belief in the big scheme of things, it doesn't really matter at all. That being said, I had never thought about that angle/perspective till now. All I can say at this point is I just don't know.Although I have a very open mind that is willing to embrace facts/perspectives,yet at same time let this whole subject go in an instant.Regardless of how this turns out it was very interesting exercise in introspection that kept my mind busy all day while riding on the tractor cutting grass. As far as the "tripping" goes, I've experienced this and think/believe I entered another vibrational level of conciousness/awareness within this reality.-Rob

[eileenrose]

self deleted post

[Sebastion]

Methinks the answers to Roman's questions are found quite handsomely in what Castaneda's Don Juan says in his book called "the art of dreaming". One must develop the art of the second attention. It is in that arena that one enters the true reality of what is. It is all about awareness and for the most part, ignored as fantasy because its the abstract.

Quote:
"The abstract is the search for freedom, freedom to perceive, without obsessions, all that's humanly possible".

It is awareness only, which has no point of reference, nothing in or from which to abide. This awareness is the essence which seemingly has confined itself in human form. That is where the illusion of form comes into play and the game of energetic ideas continues.

[ROMANWKT]

Lets work on fear of death thing, the fear of death is responsible for all the atrocities in this realm. think first before you input.

regards as always
roman

[jorr lundstrom]

Lets work on fear of death thing, the fear of death is responsible for all the atrocities in this realm. think first before you input.

regards as always
roman



As long as you buy into some BS you call you and really fight to

uphold that BS-story, you gonna fret the eradication of that

fantasy. LOL If you have the ability to let go of that BS, you get

to awareness itself, knowing, which is a little bit of a new view,

to say the least. ROFLOL

There was noone who could die in the first place, so to say.

It only takes an idea of a goose in a bottle to make people

ponder over how to get it out. LOL


And ROMAN, btw if you approach wot I written with

thinking, you wount see wot is pointed at. LOL


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[another bob]

Lets work on fear of death thing...


The primary way to transcend the fear of death is by dying, as opposed to pondering over it or talking about it or spinning fantasies about it, or even listening to stories of those who've experienced nde's. In this way, one comes to realize quite vividly that there is no such thing as death (or birth). Moreover, one can die while still alive, but in order to do that, it requires an enormous letting go, of which few at any given time in this realm are truly capable. Another way, of course, is having an nde for oneself. Otherwise, for a very very few, there is the possibility of being taken by Management representatives and shown directly how things really are (which is actually not unlike the first two options in many ways).


''When it's time to leave this body, this illusionary tangle,
Don't cause yourself anxiety and grief;
The thing that you should train in and clear up for yourself -
There's no such thing as dying to be done.
It's just clear light, the mother, and child clear light uniting;
When mind forsakes the body, sheer delight!''

~Götsangpa


:yo:

[Maria Stade]

Well as I see it only the body can stop working, the soul is only bound to the body as long as we have it.
There is no reason for fear as we only go back to where ever we came from.
Some of us can experience this as body and also as non body beings.

Death is a illusion and so is fear as it is only a mind made state.

In real danger there is no fear ... in real danger we go into total awareness and often people can se all like it hapened in slowmotion.

The most scary thing I had to live trough and face, was my own fear. LOL its only in the mind... all made up by mind.

Just let it go... we cant die, simple as that.

[another bob]

Well as I see it only the body can stop working, the soul is only bound to the body as long as we have it.
There is no reason for fear as we only go back to where ever we came from.
Some of us can experience this as body and also as non body beings.

Death is a illusion and so is fear as it is only a mind made state.

In real danger there is no fear ... in real danger we go into total awareness and often people can se all like it hapened in slowmotion.

The most scary thing I had to live trough and face, was my own fear. LOL its only in the mind... all made up by mind.

Just let it go... we cant die, simple as that.


Perhaps it’s really not death that we fear most, but life – life that seems to contradict the possibility of any victorious resolution once imagined in the eagerness of youth’s inherent idealism, its innocent willingness to believe;

life forever isolated from the rest of life by the barrier imposed on itself through trust in the reality of a dusty bag of flesh;

life that may even seem to amount to zero in a futility of form and motion racing from nowhere to nothing -- paradoxically feeling trapped in a closed loop of the known yet fearing the unknown --

deteriorating daily, yearly, diminishing inexorably, until all that is left is the stale dry air of used concepts that by now have exceeded their fraudulent warranty and dwindled into mute dissatisfaction;

life that moves regardless, teased by the wispy rumor of a beautiful desire -- the End of Wanting-- so far out of reach for still-suffering hearts left pining for that balm of sweet oblivion.

For such wounded souls, death itself may be welcomed, sought, and always found, only to be usurped by yet another life of confusion, disastrous fixation, and outrageous insult,

where boredom and doubt vie with a stubborn hope; where relationship equates with dilemma, and love becomes a promise reluctantly despaired of, perhaps to be regarded as just another lie, a fantasy marketed by a memory of a hype;

where freedom seems a cruel fiction – stories sold to themselves by hopeful day-dream believers.

Yet in the shadowed corners of the night, the steady flow of frustration’s tears, and perhaps some sort of secret prayers – some plea to the one behind all this –

then back on the spinning wheel once more, embodiment resumes again, and here is birth and death again, an alternation that seems to never end, till the rawness hones to a keen red edge, and the whir of its blade removes the head.

Then mind falls into its own black night, rests on a bed of cooled ashes, light gone out, a silence inconceivable, until . . .

from the pit of that deep dark a spark may rise, become a blaze, illuminating limitless space, liberating both sinner and saint -- a torch in vast immensity, beyond both sides of certainty, alive as the shine of awareness itself, its deathless open essence:


Home at last.

[ROMANWKT]

I am 63 as you know Jorr and bob, I am an instigater, I bring up all the things that are in peoples mind. Incite things that I know people worry about. I stir things to make people think, I stir up problem where people did not know they had, I have explained to Bob before that I bring thing up for the sake of people that have these things in the back of their mind. that's how I can awake and make people realize there is more than what they think there is. don't worry for me, worry for the ones that think this it it .

Thank you and regareds to you both Jorr and Bob

roman

[another bob]

I am 63 as you know Jorr and bob, I am an instigater, I bring up all the things that are in peoples mind. Incite things that I know people worry about. I stir things to make people think, I stir up problem where people did not know they had, I have explained to Bob before that I bring thing up for the sake of people that have these things in the back of their mind. that's how I can awake and make people realize there is more than what they think there is.

You are a beautiful, magical being, and this world is blessed to have you bumbling about, inquisitively peeking into the shadows and lovingly stirring things up!

:yo:

[ROMANWKT]

Thank you Bob

I know there are thing that people keep within themselves that haunts them for all their lives, I think we should all make the effort to bring them out and tell them the ways things really are. thank you Bob for you kind gestures, I would really like to meet you.

regards as always
roman

[ROMANWKT]

Well as I see it only the body can stop working, the soul is only bound to the body as long as we have it.
There is no reason for fear as we only go back to where ever we came from.
Some of us can experience this as body and also as non body beings.

Death is a illusion and so is fear as it is only a mind made state.

In real danger there is no fear ... in real danger we go into total awareness and often people can se all like it hapened in slowmotion.

The most scary thing I had to live trough and face, was my own fear. LOL its only in the mind... all made up by mind.

Just let it go... we cant die, simple as that.


Perhaps it’s really not death that we fear most, but life – life that seems to contradict the possibility of any victorious resolution once imagined in the eagerness of youth’s inherent idealism, its innocent willingness to believe;

life forever isolated from the rest of life by the barrier imposed on itself through trust in the reality of a dusty bag of flesh;

life that may even seem to amount to zero in a futility of form and motion racing from nowhere to nothing -- paradoxically feeling trapped in a closed loop of the known yet fearing the unknown --

deteriorating daily, yearly, diminishing inexorably, until all that is left is the stale dry air of used concepts that by now have exceeded their fraudulent warranty and dwindled into mute dissatisfaction;

life that moves regardless, teased by the wispy rumor of a beautiful desire -- the End of Wanting-- so far out of reach for still-suffering hearts left pining for that balm of sweet oblivion.

For such wounded souls, death itself may be welcomed, sought, and always found, only to be usurped by yet another life of confusion, disastrous fixation, and outrageous insult,

where boredom and doubt vie with a stubborn hope; where relationship equates with dilemma, and love becomes a promise reluctantly despaired of, perhaps to be regarded as just another lie, a fantasy marketed by a memory of a hype;

where freedom seems a cruel fiction – stories sold to themselves by hopeful day-dream believers.

Yet in the shadowed corners of the night, the steady flow of frustration’s tears, and perhaps some sort of secret prayers – some plea to the one behind all this –

then back on the spinning wheel once more, embodiment resumes again, and here is birth and death again, an alternation that seems to never end, till the rawness hones to a keen red edge, and the whir of its blade removes the head.

Then mind falls into its own black night, rests on a bed of cooled ashes, light gone out, a silence inconceivable, until . . .

from the pit of that deep dark a spark may rise, become a blaze, illuminating limitless space, liberating both sinner and saint -- a torch in vast immensity, beyond both sides of certainty, alive as the shine of awareness itself, its deathless open essence:


Home at last.

You sincerely have a way with words

thank you Bob
roman

[jorr lundstrom]

Hallo Roman. Im fascinated of how different ways the same can

be expressed in.

Having the awareness of a Peregrine Falcon, I express myself as one. LOL

We can always trust a bird of prey. It always culls the right target. Never

attacks its own kind. Knowing its power it has means to prevent that.

Pigeons on the other side attacks and kill each other under pressure.



http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrimduva-1.jpg


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Eram]

Well as I see it only the body can stop working, the soul is only bound to the body as long as we have it.
There is no reason for fear as we only go back to where ever we came from.
Some of us can experience this as body and also as non body beings.

Death is a illusion and so is fear as it is only a mind made state.

In real danger there is no fear ... in real danger we go into total awareness and often people can se all like it hapened in slowmotion.

The most scary thing I had to live trough and face, was my own fear. LOL its only in the mind... all made up by mind.

Just let it go... we cant die, simple as that.


Perhaps it’s really not death that we fear most, but life – life that seems to contradict the possibility of any victorious resolution once imagined in the eagerness of youth’s inherent idealism, its innocent willingness to believe;

life forever isolated from the rest of life by the barrier imposed on itself through trust in the reality of a dusty bag of flesh;

life that may even seem to amount to zero in a futility of form and motion racing from nowhere to nothing -- paradoxically feeling trapped in a closed loop of the known yet fearing the unknown --

deteriorating daily, yearly, diminishing inexorably, until all that is left is the stale dry air of used concepts that by now have exceeded their fraudulent warranty and dwindled into mute dissatisfaction;

life that moves regardless, teased by the wispy rumor of a beautiful desire -- the End of Wanting-- so far out of reach for still-suffering hearts left pining for that balm of sweet oblivion.

For such wounded souls, death itself may be welcomed, sought, and always found, only to be usurped by yet another life of confusion, disastrous fixation, and outrageous insult,

where boredom and doubt vie with a stubborn hope; where relationship equates with dilemma, and love becomes a promise reluctantly despaired of, perhaps to be regarded as just another lie, a fantasy marketed by a memory of a hype;

where freedom seems a cruel fiction – stories sold to themselves by hopeful day-dream believers.

Yet in the shadowed corners of the night, the steady flow of frustration’s tears, and perhaps some sort of secret prayers – some plea to the one behind all this –

then back on the spinning wheel once more, embodiment resumes again, and here is birth and death again, an alternation that seems to never end, till the rawness hones to a keen red edge, and the whir of its blade removes the head.

Then mind falls into its own black night, rests on a bed of cooled ashes, light gone out, a silence inconceivable, until . . .

from the pit of that deep dark a spark may rise, become a blaze, illuminating limitless space, liberating both sinner and saint -- a torch in vast immensity, beyond both sides of certainty, alive as the shine of awareness itself, its deathless open essence:


Home at last.

very beautiful Bob...

here 's one other..


Our Deepest Fear

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world.
There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.
We are all meant to shine, as children do.
We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.
And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”


" by Marianne Williamson "

[crested-duck]

It's the "GOD Spark" that keeps on trucking ,on & on,round & round !:loco: Rob

[another bob]

One day a young seeker on his journey home, came to the banks of a wide river.

Staring hopelessly at the great obstacle in front of him, he pondered for hours on just how to cross such a wide barrier.

Just as he was about to give up his pursuit to continue his journey he saw a great teacher on the other side of the river.

The young seeker yells over to the teacher,
"Oh wise one, can you tell me how to get to the other side of this river"?

The teacher ponders for a moment looks up and down the river and yells back,
"My son, you are on the other side".


"The term this shore refers to samsaric phenomena, the other shore to that beyond samsara. When applying this experientially in your own stream of being, look into the normal thinking mind belonging to this shore, and thereby see that it is utterly insubstantial, a cognizance that cannot be apprehended. This is known as 'arriving at the other shore' and is the vital point of dissolving this shore into arriving at the other shore".

~Guru Rinpoche

[jorr lundstrom]

Maybe to some help to take a leapless leap. LOL



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMwNPWz-4vI&feature=g-all-u

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMwNPWz-4vI&feature=g-all-u


All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Eram]

Thank you Jorr,

This is the 2th time I watch a video of Mooji (that's his name isn't it?) that you posted on PA and the 2th time I get an answer to a question I've been carrying around.

Thank you so much!

[Eram]

I am 63 as you know Jorr and bob, I am an instigater, I bring up all the things that are in peoples mind. Incite things that I know people worry about. I stir things to make people think, I stir up problem where people did not know they had, I have explained to Bob before that I bring thing up for the sake of people that have these things in the back of their mind. that's how I can awake and make people realize there is more than what they think there is. don't worry for me, worry for the ones that think this it it .

Thank you and regareds to you both Jorr and Bob

roman

Hi Roman,

It's much appreciated that you do all this.
I've read your posts with great interest and recently started doing the exercise you speak of in
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...onsense-part-1 .

To me, it's such a wonderful thing to be here on PA where all these beautiful beings are together and share from whatever they know and in doing so inspire others like me.

Lots of gratitude,

Waky

[ROMANWKT]

Hallo Roman. Im fascinated of how different ways the same can

be expressed in.

Having the awareness of a Peregrine Falcon, I express myself as one. LOL

We can always trust a bird of prey. It always culls the right target. Never

attacks its own kind. Knowing its power it has means to prevent that.

Pigeons on the other side attacks and kill each other under pressure.



http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrimduva-1.jpg


All is well


Jorr 2.0

Hi Jorr

It is a capacity that all of us have in this realm, to take on something wonderful as that Peregrine Falcon, and assume the natural laws of nature that we as a human spices have lost. We have assumed unnatural brainwashing for most of our lives, taking on fantasy characters, who create imbalance in our lives.

Sorry about the delay, working, nice to hear from you Jorr

regards as always to you
roman