Economic alert.....from the Oathkeepers.

[spiritguide]

The link below will take you to a lenghtly article on why you should be alert at this moment and what you can do to help yourself to weather the coming storm. If you can they advise to have three months food and supplies stored and you should be doing so now. Long article but worth reading and copying. IMHO

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/05/16/economic-alert-if-you%e2%80%99re-not-worried-yet%e2%80%a6you-should-be/

Read and heed for your welfare. This article is not for fear it is sound advice for the short term future.

:peace:

[crosby]

spiritguide, thank you very much. that is the best article that i have read regarding the downfall of the republic. be aware, be prepared.
regards, corson

[GoodETxSG]

Yea, I got that email today too... lots to ponder on.

[DreamsInDigital]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

[crosby]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

this is where knowing your neighbors well or getting closer to other family members can help. develop an inner sanctum, a place or other people that you can go to when in need.
regards, corson

[meeradas]

Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

[sygh]

spiritguide, thank you very much. that is the best article that i have read regarding the downfall of the republic. be aware, be prepared.
regards, corson

I just love you, corson, and your avatar. Want to hear some good news along the same lines? Take a gander at this:

http://rt.com/usa/news/ndaa-judge-blocked-detention-437/

[DreamsInDigital]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

this is where knowing your neighbors well or getting closer to other family members can help. develop an inner sanctum, a place or other people that you can go to when in need.
regards, corson
That's really a great idea, and suggestion. But, as far as these community projects and getting involved with neighbors specially in California just isn't something that really goes over well. I mean thankfully neighbors on both sides of us are growing fruit trees, and we have citrus and avocado trees. But, nothing's growing right now aside from Lemons. I'll keep my fingers crossed , do my best and hope among other things that the Militias will be smart enough to protect the important resources.

Corson is awesomeness on a major scale.

[sygh]

Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

Get rice, water and beans, canned fruit and veggies, olive oil, sugar, flour or bisquick, salt, soap, candles, TP. You'll be cool. You can also get with your neighbors. Just gather them and tell 'em better safe than sorry. Minimum... rice, beans, water soap and TP.

[Selene]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

This is an excellent question, DID. One that reaches to the very core of the issue, so please forgive me for using it as a springboard to say more.

A bazillion forums on the net have been patiently explaining strategies for prepping for at least ten years now – and your question is definitely a FAQ. (Short answer: Stash what you use and use what you stash. Every bit helps and don’t let the perfect become the enemy of the ‘pretty good’ Need one? Buy two. Buy on sale. Plan ahead. Build as you go..)

Perhaps there should be a FAQ’s for this. (Any volunteers here? A compilation of “best of…” clips? Links needed here. Or new thread?)

But, of course, this and other issues will continue to come up as people continue to awaken to the reality that the future is not …. without its challenges. And any preparation is better than none. We may end up in a Better Place, but nobody (except….umm…) says it will be a free ride in a galactic limo from here onward, ascending (sorry, couldn’t resist!) to pure bliss utterly painlessly. Human history, regrettably, teaches us otherwise.

I’ve personally been assembling a stash of food, seeds and other supplies bit by bit over the last three years. We’re now good for about six months with a bit extra for others in need, in a surprisingly compact space. I have a library of ‘how to’ books, bought used off Amazon. I’ve commandeered an old metal filing cabinet and outfitted it for our electronics against an EMP; given hand-cranked shortwave radios and tesla-type flashlights to family members as Christmas gifts [they don’t really get it, but maybe….]

In short, I’ve been prepping as I go, as I can afford it, as I find stuff on sale.

But I am building an “insurance” bulwark against possible shutdown – from any cause. Pick a threat: weather, EMP, power grid, earthquake, civil disruption… anything can disrupt your food supply chain within hours. FACT: The average urban area – yours included - contains only a three day supply of food within it. Warehouses, trucks and grocery stores included. Three barking days, and a panicked population. How many days are in your pantry right now? Everyone imagines they’ll be the only “smart” person at the grocery store stocking up when the SHTF – but what actually happens? Stripped shelves. Gas stations closed. Shutdown of checkout terminals. Looting and panic. Every time.

This isn’t “fear porn.” It’s data.

And believe me, no one will be happier than I will be to discover that all this stuff was totally unnecessary, like paying my fire or auto insurance premiums.

But I’ll keep my insurance, thank you.

In short: good question. You’ve just begun a really useful line of inquiry.

You. Can. Do. This.

And it’s not, exactly, the dumbest thing you could do, all things considered.

Cheers and best wishes,

Selene

[the_vast_mystery]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

this is where knowing your neighbors well or getting closer to other family members can help. develop an inner sanctum, a place or other people that you can go to when in need.
regards, corson

For those of us who've moved 300 miles or more just to get away from our relatives this whole scenario isn't looking too good. I'm sure if push came to shove I'd try talking to the people at my apartment complex. But I'd rather starve than ask for anything from my so-called "family."

What I really worry about is what will happen to people who have medical conditions like diabetes and need regular shots? Food safety is one thing but anyone who needs any kind of medication might as well shoot themselves now if it's going to be as bad as they make it out to be. This is why people like Drake gain traction, because in the absence of any organization, when faced with the possibility of total economic collapse nobody wants to imagine the horror that they will be faced with if they're left to themselves.

[sygh]

Sorry about so many posts but just remembered something... recently, I saw a gathering of local police at a neighbor's home... for some reason, it felt like the perfect time to ask them if our town had set up any plans for doing business, should we experience an economic collapse. They said either no, or they had no idea but to speak with the Mayor and Town Manager. I haven't had the chance yet but will be going there some time this week.

OK, heres an admission... when speaking with the police, my throat was tight -and it felt very awkward to be speaking of these things to authorities, as if that gave it more of a reality but recently - it seems the elephant under the carpet has been extremely restless -and it simply was a must do. Planning ahead never hurt anyone and it won't hurt a city.

Not far from here (Southport, NC) is Pittsboro. They have planned and happen to have their own currency called... the Plenty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLENTY_(currency)

[Dennis Leahy]

Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.Seeds for fast-growing "greens" are a smart buy if you have only a little bit of money. You can "container" garden anywhere there is sun, and you can "vertical garden" where there is little space. A huge bag of lentils, a huge bag of brown rice, bouillon cubes, some dried onions... all cheap and a good basis for soup (and you can add other things if you or a neighbor have anything to add to the pot.)

Buy at least a few extra cans of high quality canned goods (Eden Foods comes in BPA-free cans) each time you shop, and your pile will grow. As far as storage space, I would guess you could jam a year's worth of food in a "broom closet."

See if there are any neighborhood gardens or maybe something within bicycle distance, where you could join forces with someone that maybe has a few more dollars right now (for supplies) and you could provide a little more muscle, TLC, and weeding. Don't wait on this idea, you'll need to make some gardening/gardener connections ASAP. I think a garden, and food preservation, are going to be key elements. Only 75 to 100 years ago, most people had enough food stored to make it through the winter and on until the early spring crops came in. Right now, packets of organic seeds are about $3 max, and will grow maybe $100 worth of food. Those packets of seeds are going to get really valuable - a smart move for bartering.

I promise not to become a cannibal. I will never find out if human "tastes like chicken."

Dennis

[the_vast_mystery]

Oh please, we already know the answer to this: Humans taste like pork, it's where the slang "long-pig" for cannibalism derives from. ;p

[Dennis Leahy]

Oh please, we already know the answer to this: Humans taste like pork, it's where the slang "long-pig" for cannibalism derives from. ;pYoikes!I forgot I had ever heard that term! Pass the lentil soup, please! No grokking for me. :~)

Dennis

[white wizard]

Hmmmm some weird things have happened to me in my life recently. I am a

firm believer that my guides push me to do things in my life that guide me

through situations. In the last two months I have been pushed to buy things

that would assist me in times of trouble. Some of the things that I bought

my guides shunned me away from before and then and no matter what

I did I would always be pushed away from buying them. Last week I literally

had the dream I was to get a certain item for protection and that day it

manifested itself into my life and came to me. I do not know why I turned

into a prepper the last month, but I do know it is my guides pushing me to do

so.

[DouglasDanger]

Also know what you can eat that grows naturally in your enviroment, dandi lions aren't to tasty but they do grow quickly and plentyfull on my lawn. there's lots of other greenery that most people see as eye sores right now but can and will make a meal..

[Selene]

Also know what you can eat that grows naturally in your environment, dandi lions aren't to tasty but they do grow quickly and plentiful on my lawn. there's lots of other greenery that most people see as eye sores right now but can and will make a meal..

Yes. Assuming, of course, that a shutdown happens in the early spring in your region, when dandelions are in season.

Otherwise, you need to ask: What about six months of winter without power before your garden begins to grow?

Regards,

Selene

[schneider]

I personally think the dollar will get stronger when the euro collapses which makes all commodities go down including gold and silver and oil. The US dollar is actually a federal reserve note that is a global currency backed by gold. It is best to stay diversified- gold, silver, paper money and other things you can barter.

[Dennis Leahy]

... winter without power... Modern home (gas furnace, no fireplace or chimney) in one of the harsher winter areas of the US (northern Minnesota) has got me thinking about whether it would even be possible to stay in my home over winter. A couple of small (20#) tanks of propane would fire up a grill all winter to cook (outside), but the cost of natural gas to heat a home in a cold climate could be astronomical. I can't afford to retrofit a wood-burning stove into the house - and besides, my wife won't believe it is a good idea until too late. I don't have a good answer for that one.

Dennis

[eileenrose]

So what if we don't? take precautions, save water and material items and so forth. What is the worse that can happen? I am just tired of hearing the fear mongering and have taken a siesta from it myself. It has been five years of this (for me). ...announcements of impending doom.

It is almost as if some individuals aspire for something negative to happen and when it doesn't happen, they start looking for more negative news (to feel that feeling again....of inadequacy or something...) just to get a fix.

I feel reality is tons more complicated and there are no easy solutions.

Just being here and present with what is happening in my life right now is the only demand I put on myself (the new symptoms of a heart condition are helping with this....yes...even dis-ease is more interesting to me that more 'end of the world' talk now).

[Selene]

Dennis, you commented:


Right now, packets of organic seeds are about $3 max, and will grow maybe $100 worth of food. Those packets of seeds are going to get really valuable - a smart move for bartering.

Absolutely.

And, if I may suggest, rather than bartering a whole packet of seeds each time, you might consider starting the seedlings themselves (into egg carton pods?) to trade at the fair. Makes each precious packet go much further, and will aid those who don’t know how to start seedlings.

Vital tip: Never plant all your seeds at once. Always set aside one-third as insurance against a failed crop; you might need to replant. And, for crissake, learn how to save that crop’s seeds for the next year.

Cheers,

Selene

[the_vast_mystery]

I personally think the dollar will get stronger when the euro collapses which makes all commodities go down including gold and silver and oil. The US dollar is actually a federal reserve note that is a global currency backed by gold. It is best to stay diversified- gold, silver, paper money and other things you can barter.

Why would the dollar grow stronger? What does the world need to buy that the U.S. still makes? Is there anything we actually export anymore that people buy? P.S. if we have an economic crash your gold will be worthless. You are buying gold based on the assumption people will value it.

Tell me, what good does shiny jewelry metal do for you if you're hungry, tired and cold? If it does YOU personally no good, why do you think anyone else will want it? If you can't eat it, drink it, wear it, shoot it, keep warm/cool with it, treat pain/disease with it, find shelter in it, or use it to build and/or grow anything that fits in the above it is worth precisely bumpkiss to someone during a total economic collapse. Instead of dumping all of your money into shiny precious metals whose only purpose is glamor you should instead be investing it in preparing something for barter you know will be needed in your region. (That does fall under the above list of requirements)

[spiritguide]

Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

Start developing relationships with like minded people in your area and plan and share resources among each other.

[Dennis Leahy]

So what if we don't? take precautions, save water and material items and so forth. What is the worse that can happen? I am just tired of hearing the fear mongering and have taken a siesta from it myself. It has been five years of this (for me). ...announcements of impending doom.

It is almost as if some individuals aspire for something negative to happen and when it doesn't happen, they start looking for more negative news (to feel that feeling again....of inadequacy or something...) just to get a fix.

I feel reality is tons more complicated and there are no easy solutions.

Just being here and present with what is happening in my life right now is the only demand I put on myself (the new symptoms of a heart condition are helping with this....yes...even dis-ease is more interesting to me that more 'end of the world' talk now).When I lived on the coast in the southeast US (Charleston, SC), there were several days worth of advance notice of hurricanes, and all the while watching them to see if they would "make land." We prepared. It was not doom and gloom, it was simply preparation for what we saw coming. We knew (or at least we fully assumed) we would live through it, but knew we needed to be smart enough to prepare as best we could.

The international bankers have been very naughty, selling worthless paper over and over and over making hundreds of trillions in debt pile up. There are a number of economic factors that make it obvious that there is an economic hurricane coming at us. It will "hit land" (our economy, and the world economy), and NOT preparing is not a good idea. This economic hurricane will hit whether we are prepared or not. It is our "good fortune" to have a bit of time to prepare. It can be done with joy (like prepping for a camping trip.)

I do understand what you're talking about, and I try not to let it overwhelm me (and try to make sure I don't overwhelm my loved ones when I talk about this stuff.) But disengaging from the overwhelming emotion must not prevent us from getting prepared. Being proactive is satisfying. Read Selene's posts above, and see if you can feel the emotion she is experiencing. Her words have a smart, proactive, calm feeling to me.

Dennis

[spiritguide]

... winter without power... Modern home (gas furnace, no fireplace or chimney) in one of the harsher winter areas of the US (northern Minnesota) has got me thinking about whether it would even be possible to stay in my home over winter. A couple of small (20#) tanks of propane would fire up a grill all winter to cook (outside), but the cost of natural gas to heat a home in a cold climate could be astronomical. I can't afford to retrofit a wood-burning stove into the house - and besides, my wife won't believe it is a good idea until too late. I don't have a good answer for that one.

Dennis

You can reduce the actual living space you use(close off unused space), insulate the outer walls by stacking straw bales on the outer walls, use the basement it will stay warmer. a small fire will keep the space warm, think eskimo and how they lived in igloos. Good thermal blankets and clothes also. Body heat can heat an enclosed area also. Winter survival without modern comforts is doable just think of native americans and there teepees, very efficient shelter. The settlers in your region did it . Think basic in these things. If needed we will all be sacrificing through the time of peril but when it is over we will realize that technology is not limitless. Survival is close to earth not insulated from it. IMHO

[mountain_jim]

I bought a book to identify all the edible plants in the area I live, which has lots of forested spaces and some meadows.

I have thought about a solar oven, but have lots of wood around - only I don't look forward to having to work up firewood for cooking and heating without a working chainsaw if gas runs out.

If I had the money, I could turn a mountain stream into a micro-hydro power source, but suspect an EMP could do that in as well. I also think I would be safer without being the only powered house in the area, so I am planning on being able to get by without electricity for awhile if need be.

We have a dehydrator and have stored dried fruit and tomatoes and such from previous years bounty, to go with bought rice and beans and such.

Have wood-stove and gravity-fed spring water, so house has working plumbing without electricity. No solar water-heat, though.

(I was lead by intuition to this place, having circled an ad in a real-estate magazine almost 4 years before I was in position to go for it - it had 3 failed contracts over that time and when we finally were ready, the process went unbelievably smooth. We knew we were where we were supposed to be, for whatever comes this year or next.)

[WhiteFeather]

Thanks spiritguide. It couldnt hurt to stock up on these items from that link youve posted..


Do you have a stack of 50 lb bags of rice and 50lb bags of beans? That is super-cheap food insurance that no one, not one of you, has any excuse for not having. A 50 lb bag of rice or beans can be had for under $22.00. Want to buy it even cheaper, go to a Mormon food cannery (where you can also buy powdered milk, wheat, and bulk salt and sugar). Even if you are on a tight budget, get some bags of rice and beans. Together, they make a meal, and they are simple to prepare. All you need is water and heat, and a pot. Surely you should store more complete foods, and a variety of other foods, but those bags of rice and beans will help keep you and yours alive. You have no reason to not have them, so get them.

[Arrowwind]

I have made food strorage a focus for the last 4 years. I now have almost 1.5 years of stored stuff... working on it slowly over time.

Be aware that with inflation anything that you put into food will produce a 5% yearly or more return on your money... food inflation is really happening... far more profit than any savings account and most stock portfolios.

3 years ago a 20 pound bag of pintos was $16... today $23 to $26

Do not store brown rice. It goes rancid unless you can put it in a freezer. White rice is where its at. We dont really eat white rice but I store it anyway and continue to eat brown rice. White rice will keep forever if it is sealed properly.

Our focus now it in gardening. We now have about 1000 sq feet of garden space, several fruit trees planted.
We have enough sage brush surrounding us to fuel a rocket stove for years if need be.

The reason to invest in gold and silver is to diversify your options. We dont know what the future will bring but historically these metals have held value through very rought times throughout history.

Having gold and silver with no food, no garden, no heat, may not do much for you... but it may purchase for you transport to safey somehwere. I have my kids keep a small stash of silver so they can get out of town quick if ever the need arises. Metals could loose their value but there will likely be a space of time when they will have value. Just depends on how bad things get.

[the_vast_mystery]

Metals are definitely safer than paper money, but during hard times barter is king. The only reason people MIGHT take gold or silver is that they are still under the impression that other people might honor it. So because we as a species have these problems with breaking free from history there is a nontrivial chance that gold and silver would work during a minor crisis or during the beginning of a major crisis. This being entirely because people cannot think beyond the dogma of "Gold = money." That said, they will only retain their value so long as someone doesn't decide to create their own, more utilitarian currency. Metro 2033 had the right idea I think, even though it was a game, during an extended crisis we could very easily see bullets and other forms of ammunition supplant any paper or metal money. Ammunition being something nearly universally useful it would be valuable to all, enabling it to function as a means of exchange as well.

[crosby]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

this is where knowing your neighbors well or getting closer to other family members can help. develop an inner sanctum, a place or other people that you can go to when in need.
regards, corson

For those of us who've moved 300 miles or more just to get away from our relatives this whole scenario isn't looking too good. I'm sure if push came to shove I'd try talking to the people at my apartment complex. But I'd rather starve than ask for anything from my so-called "family."

What I really worry about is what will happen to people who have medical conditions like diabetes and need regular shots? Food safety is one thing but anyone who needs any kind of medication might as well shoot themselves now if it's going to be as bad as they make it out to be. This is why people like Drake gain traction, because in the absence of any organization, when faced with the possibility of total economic collapse nobody wants to imagine the horror that they will be faced with if they're left to themselves.

The_Vast_Mystery, i understand where you are coming from, believe me. i live 1200 miles away from my siblings and i like it that way....... however, i do have other cousins and such, who aren't so bad. and i have very close friends that i consider to be part of my family. developing a close bond with people that you care about is key. i worry about the medication aspects for people as well. i am not sure what to do about that except buy meds in 90+ day groupings. i am working on that particular problem for one of my daughters. she suffers from major depression and even though i do not want her taking meds, she is at the moment, and i am looking into ways of obtaining enough to keep her safe. i wish we could write a book about what to do and have many, many people contribute to it.
warmest regards, corson

¤=[Post Update]=¤



spiritguide, thank you very much. that is the best article that i have read regarding the downfall of the republic. be aware, be prepared.
regards, corson

I just love you, corson, and your avatar. Want to hear some good news along the same lines? Take a gander at this:

http://rt.com/usa/news/ndaa-judge-blocked-detention-437/

excellent my little mouse!!!!!!!! that is a terrific find. thanks so much for the update.
warmest, corson

[LivingLight]

A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.

[LivingLight]

Is it okay to stockpile dry catfood or will it go rancid? I wonder what I can do to take care of my cat... How are people going to take care of their animals, or are they going to turn them loose to let them fend for themselves?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.

If you have twigs available you can boil water in a Kelly Kettle or other small camping stove.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TMCR-ie9H_w

There are many other options. You may find more useful information on this page of my blog (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=669).

[tenacity1]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

my questions excatly.. Not to be negative but the way I see it.. I am not gonna worry.I've done what I can and have not the resources to do more. MY faith in the GReat Spirt will carry me through.I am certainly not waiting on heros not expecting the far right, middle or far left to really give a damn what happens to the disabled in America.I knew decades ago that we are truly alone when it comes to our survival. Not being cynical that's just reality for millions in America who are disabled. C'est la vie what will be will be.. I'll either make it or die trying. Peace and best wishes to the rest in same circumstances. I've had angels watching over me for years and am more certain than ever that if I leave fear behind.. and just place one foot in front of the other those who have protected me before will be there. I certainly am not gonna worry and hang on every new theory.. Being part Cherokee I tend to lean towards Hopi and other Native Teaching more than anything else.. worry and fear have no place in my heart. If I get to stay I do if I don't..well this body is past it's sell by date anyway.

[tenacity1]

oh and before I forget.. in one in four people have a disability you can bet every neighborhood has at least one shut in who relies on meals on wheels.. maybe some of you would think of them. I have good neighbors but since I also am rather proud and don't like folks knowing I am ill(in the south southern girls don't give folks that kind of info it makes you a target) I know millions of us will die.. ya'll just need to realize that decades ago when those of us who said govts who would harm the weak would do it to anyone should have listened.. I am certain I probably am on lists as I have been a vocal whistleblower in my community in the past.Now, thank God my medical problems keeps me off their radar and I don't get out to town meetings. But realize folks there are some folks who are even worse off than folks like me.I know folks with disabilities living on less than four hundred a month and they have no choice. are the so called "evolved folks gonna play social Darwinists or will folks realize we are al truly one./ HMM we shall see.. my cynical side says all those of us with illness will make ascnesion first and that is as it should be. Peace

[spiritguide]

A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.

As for the heat problem supply wooden matches and locate a good place to gather dead wood from. Get a few blocks of parrafin from a hobby store and buy candles or make your own. Another trick is to go to the home supply store and by a few squares of ceiling tile and use them to make fire starters. ( melt the parrafin in a pan and soak a few boxes of wooden matches in it, now you have waterproof matches. cut the ceiling tiles into 1x2 inch squares and soak them in the melted parrafin and now you have waterproof firestarters.) CAUTION: the melted parrafin is very flammable and needs caution while working with. Parrafin will be a valuable item as well as bees wax, useful too. I hope this helps with your heat question.

:peace:

[spiritguide]

yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

my questions excatly.. Not to be negative but the way I see it.. I am not gonna worry.I've done what I can and have not the resources to do more. MY faith in the GReat Spirt will carry me through.I am certainly not waiting on heros not expecting the far right, middle or far left to really give a damn what happens to the disabled in America.I knew decades ago that we are truly alone when it comes to our survival. Not being cynical that's just reality for millions in America who are disabled. C'est la vie what will be will be.. I'll either make it or die trying. Peace and best wishes to the rest in same circumstances. I've had angels watching over me for years and am more certain than ever that if I leave fear behind.. and just place one foot in front of the other those who have protected me before will be there. I certainly am not gonna worry and hang on every new theory.. Being part Cherokee I tend to lean towards Hopi and other Native Teaching more than anything else.. worry and fear have no place in my heart. If I get to stay I do if I don't..well this body is past it's sell by date anyway.

Your situation is not unique and all the more reason to band with friends and neighbors to get adopted during emergencies of any nature. All nieghborhoods/towns should have an adoption plan for those less fortunate, it's up to us to help ourselves in this area. Talk it up!

:peace:

[tenacity1]

honey around here if I told my neighbors how sick I am the wild boys of the neighborhood would give me a hard time and I'd just as soon not ask for help.I'm a giver not a taker.. Women in the mnts of nc know to keepo their heads down cause our District attorney doesn't keep the violent ones in jail he use them for drug running.. so letting lots of folks know you are sick and alone is just not wise.. if it gets wierd out there I'll do what Hunter S Thompson said "when the going gets wierd, the weird turn pro." best thing southern girls can do to protect themselves in this neck of thew woods is act menopausal and mean around your redneck neigbors and they give you a wide berth*L* This is a county that doesn't prosecute domestic violence/rape whatever against women cause our DA is a mysogynist.. I worry about those in cities.. we have grund hogs, turkeys derr etc and having grown up with a grandfather who still had his native hunting skills.. came in real handy for my future training.. I'm not gun savvy due to injuries but I've learned a few wood crafts to keep uninvited folks off my place and I've got a nice wrist rocket.. heck.. if it gets real bad.. I've even got the Oregon plan all sussed out.. (that's euthanaisa for the uninitiated) IF this county does what I think it'll do..I'll take the cyanide before I allow one of our corrupt to get their nasty hands on me.
ya'll excuse the mistakes..I had to start a God forbid pharmaceutical anitbiotic today and my eyes are the worst.. typos an all

peace be with ya folks and belive me as I have been writing about disabled rights since 1997 I know well that i am not unique..I'm one of the lucky ones. I know folks stuck in group home due to cutbacks in home care.It's those folks and the old folks who use meals on wheels I really worry about,I'd give my right arm to have the resources to help them

[Dennis Leahy]

A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.
A solar stove (http://solarcooking.org/plans/) would be nice to have, during the months when the sun is intense.

Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100. An extra tank ("20 pounds") will cost you about $40, filled. Right now, it might be about $25 in the US to get an empty tank filled. A second full tank now will ensure that you don't have to spend more [valuable item, money or whatever barter item it may be] later. Twenty pounds of propane can cook a lot of meals. I have seen figures stating that it may typically burn for about eleven hours at full blast, but I'll bet you could cook 50 pots of soup with one tank. Many meals can be cooked quickly, and a covered grill holds some heat for a while. Several (3? or 4?) tanks full would ensure you could cook all winter, and make a little bit of hot water here and there as needed (not a bathtub full however.) :~)

Neighbors sharing a pot of soup would mean the propane stretches even further. Soak beans overnight to make them cook a LOT quicker the next day. Don't forget lentils: nutritious, flavorful, quicker cooking than beans.

If you had more tanks than you needed, and if the economy crashes as hard as I suspect it will, you'll have gas in spring when your neighbors run out, or you'll have something VERY valuable to trade. Be smart about storing the tanks, both in terms of a fire/explosion hazard and as a "thief attractant" if displayed prominently.

As with all of the good ideas expressed in this thread, none of this will go to waste. With hyperinflation, real goods are much more valuable than any form of money, even "precious" metals. If food was scarce, you wouldn't trade your family's last few cans of food for a handful of silver coins (that might be "worth" $500), would you? Grow a garden this summer, make a giant cauldron or two of the most awesome vegetable soup you ever tasted, and can a few dozen quarts. Better than anything you can buy in any store.

Another idea is to get a good food dehydrator (http://www.excaliburdehydrator.com/about.htm) right now, and as each fruit and vegetable crop is at its peak, eat some and dry some. Once veggies are dried, if you want to save space, you can crush them in a paper or cloth bag with a rolling pin, and have less jars and less space taken up. Your beans and rice will be a lot more interesting with bouillon cubes and some dried veggies thrown in. You can dry broccoli, kale, spinach...(nutrient dense foods), or just about any fruit or vegetable sliced. Dried foods last a long time. Buy a pound or two of organic dried onion flakes at the health food store. A few things are cheaper purchased dried (like dried mango) than you could dry yourself, so be aware of that. Look for folks with fruit (and nut) trees and you may be able to "clean up" imperfect or fallen fruit for free on 'on the cheap.' Cut off the bad parts, dry or can the good stuff, and the result is as close to perfection as need be.

I just learned how to can and dry a couple of years ago. It is a lot of work but the rewards are food that is better than you could buy anywhere in a can, with your own special touch. After about 3 batches of salsa, I'll bet that your own salsa will be your favorite.

My squash from my garden lasted until early February, and my potatoes until about mid-March. So remember, not everything needs to be dried or canned, some can be simply stored (of course, you do want to learn how to properly store root crops and winter squash.)

This reminds me to remind others that this work need not be stressful or driven by fear. This is exactly the same thing we should all have done for ourselves last year, and the year before... A full pantry from the growing season celebrates the seasons and the cycle of life. It is "normal." Relying on goods to be trucked-in during late fall to early spring is a very new phenomenon in society, and is "not normal." The work to make this happen is wholesome and life affirming and satisfying.

May you have joy in your heart and a song on your lips as you plan for and prepare your family's "larder."

Dennis

[eileenrose]

Hi, anyone,
re: "But disengaging from the overwhelming emotion must not prevent us from getting prepared.", from Dennis.

In one way, we are completely opposite in our tack, on how to heal our universe/world/planet/human affairs.

Just talking in general now, to anyone:
First of all, you are ....everything. You are a complete universe (see: Bruce Lipton). Everyone is. So if you feel fear, we all do. Especially in a closed loop community (forum) on-line.

It is fact (whether admitted too is something else). So, once the announcements of financial wrecking balls were coming through in 2008, your responsibility for communicating
said disaster ended.

But notice the rhetoric continues.

Why do we feel the need to keep reinforcing this type of mental activity, even when we know it spreads fear?

Because we are addicted to it. Fear based ideas.

I am saying, in a round about way, that you (and anyone who keeps bringing this information up with fear in them about it), isn't helping.
It is creating a new paradigm, one filled with fear.

I will give you an example to put this into perspective (for the Western mentality).

Go to any country that is considered 'third world'.
They all live with these type of circumstances, you and everyone here (US, Europe etc.) are frightened of.
And have their entire existence.
Do you seem them running forums into the ground with fear terminology? No.
ANd you never will.
They know better.

They are in touch with themselves (why the elites want them dead). And their 'universe' is safe and secure. Because it isn't dependent on money.
Which is what this is really about (and I brought up on another thread which no one read...or understands).

This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.

Throwing in new age terminology and jacking the 'end of times' garbage from different culture's myths/past to fit our current day circumstances, is a waste of our time.
I've been trying to discourage people from cementing this fixation into our reality (by keeping talking about it happening....which keeps bringing it into
our reality).

You are just helping them (the elites).
So I am finally saying something (even if people are uncomfortable talking about it at this level).

We do create our reality. You just don't know it (yet).

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi eileenrose,

What post of mine are you responding to? Surely not what I just posted.

Dennis

[eileenrose]

sorry Dennis, my control save button posted wrong/ie. I fixed it...see above. Thanks for noticing.

[tenacity1]

Hi, anyone,
re: "But disengaging from the overwhelming emotion must not prevent us from getting prepared.", from Dennis.

In one way, we are completely opposite in our tack, on how to heal our universe/world/planet/human affairs.

Just talking in general now, to anyone:
First of all, you are ....everything. You are a complete universe (see: Bruce Lipton). Everyone is. So if you feel fear, we all do. Especially in a closed loop community (forum) on-line.

It is fact (whether admitted too is something else). So, once the announcements of financial wrecking balls were coming through in 2008, your responsibility for communicating
said disaster ended.

But notice the rhetoric continues.

Why do we feel the need to keep reinforcing this type of mental activity, even when we know it spreads fear?

Because we are addicted to it. Fear based ideas.

I am saying, in a round about way, that you (and anyone who keeps bringing this information up with fear in them about it), isn't helping.
It is creating a new paradigm, one filled with fear.

I will give you an example to put this into perspective (for the Western mentality).

Go to any country that is considered 'third world'.
They all live with these type of circumstances, you and everyone here (US, Europe etc.) are frightened of.
And have their entire existence.
Do you seem them running forums into the ground with fear terminology? No.
ANd you never will.
They know better.

They are in touch with themselves (why the elites want them dead). And their 'universe' is safe and secure. Because it isn't dependent on money.
Which is what this is really about (and I brought up on another thread which no one read...or understands).

This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.

Throwing in new age terminology and jacking the 'end of times' garbage from different culture's myths/past to fit our current day circumstances, is a waste of our time.
I've been trying to discourage people from cementing this fixation into our reality (by keeping talking about it happening....which keeps bringing it into
our reality).

You are just helping them (the elites).
So I am finally saying something (even if people are uncomfortable talking about it at this level).

We do create our reality. You just don't know it (yet).

bingo.. I've been wanting to say this myself and have efelt this way for a long time. Thanks for saying this.Too true.. it's why some days online I simply sit there and play old protest/love is all there is music (beatles of course)

[ThePythonicCow]

Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100. An extra tank ("20 pounds") will cost you about $40, filled. Right now, it might be about $25 in the US to get an empty tank filled. A second full tank now will ensure that you don't have to spend more [valuable item, money or whatever barter item it may be] later. Twenty pounds of propane can cook a lot of meals. I have seen figures stating that it may typically burn for about eleven hours at full blast, but I'll bet you could cook 50 pots of soup with one tank. Many meals can be cooked quickly, and a covered grill holds some heat for a while. Several (3? or 4?) tanks full would ensure you could cook all winter
Yup - agreed.

And if you're cooking beans, after soaking them overnight, cook them in a pressure cooker. That's a much more efficient use of the heat. Once I get my cooker up to temperature, I only need to have it on low heat for perhaps 20 or 30 minutes to cook pinto beans.

That's my main plan .. rice and beans, with a gas grill, a few tanks of propane, and a pressure cooker.

That and quiet a variety of high density nutrition, such as vitamins and other nutrients from Swanson Vitamins (https://www.swansonvitamins.com), superfoods (Health Force (http://www.healthforce.com/home/) and Living Fuel (http://www.livingfuel.com)) twenty pounds of chia seeds, and a Berkey water filter.

I also have a propane fired generator sufficient to recharge the battery in my computer UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply), from which I could run a variety of low power devices, such as a radio, a laptop, or AA battery recharger to power flashlights and such.

[sygh]

Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100. An extra tank ("20 pounds") will cost you about $40, filled. Right now, it might be about $25 in the US to get an empty tank filled. A second full tank now will ensure that you don't have to spend more [valuable item, money or whatever barter item it may be] later. Twenty pounds of propane can cook a lot of meals. I have seen figures stating that it may typically burn for about eleven hours at full blast, but I'll bet you could cook 50 pots of soup with one tank. Many meals can be cooked quickly, and a covered grill holds some heat for a while. Several (3? or 4?) tanks full would ensure you could cook all winter
Yup - agreed.

And if you're cooking beans, after soaking them overnight, cook them in a pressure cooker. That's a much more efficient use of the heat. Once I get my cooker up to temperature, I only need to have it on low heat for perhaps 20 or 30 minutes to cook pinto beans.

That's my main plan .. rice and beans, with a gas grill, a few tanks of propane, and a pressure cooker.

That and quiet a variety of high density nutrition, such as vitamins and other nutrients from Swanson Vitamins (https://www.swansonvitamins.com), superfoods (Health Force (http://www.healthforce.com/home/) and Living Fuel (http://www.livingfuel.com)) twenty pounds of chia seeds, and a Berkey water filter.

I also have a propane fired generator sufficient to recharge the battery in my computer UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply), from which I could run a variety of low power devices, such as a radio, a laptop, or AA battery recharger to power flashlights and such.

I like the idea of the propane fired generator in relation to the UPS. Good idea.
Am also using a gas grill with propane. I live close enought to neighbors who are already pretty self sufficient and have thought to never waste the cooking fuel as two pressure cookers on the grill are better than one.

MIddle of the road solar cookers can reach heats of 275 degrees F to 325 degrees F. You can cook rice in about 2 hours, no matter what the weather is outdoors, just as long as its sunny. And a shorter period of time, if the rice is soaked first. Same with the beans, they are naturally small and don't have to be cut up. Parabolic dishes or trophs cook hot and quick.

The wikipedia examples are actually very good. Anyone can pick out one or two they think will work and make it simply, and inexpensively enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cooker
here is another helpful link:
http://www.terra.org/cocinas/searchen.php?fam=1

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

@ Meeradas,

Check out the sites of Ron Mauer ( links are at the off the grid section), he has lots of info about how to get by on a budget, build stoves, buy cheap food, build your own solar ovens, food dryers, there is lots and lots of good info in the off the grid section.

I posted a link about a very cheap and very good military water filter, 2000 liters, divided by 365( days) is 5.479 liters per day, you need at least two per day, if you get some cheap collapsable jerrycans ( for camping), you will drink fresh clean water for at least 2 to three years minimum for under fifty bucks for the whole 2 to 3 years. TIP.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

WlVogHe5qlI

Jf26YBmY8Q8

1-NxqyhGbag

eeSyHgO5fmQ

Wk3dv1IXb00

http://www.greenpowerscience.com/

For the water filter see link below, go to cooking and water section.

http://www.hettykat.nl/

4lLOpBjcqjk

This water filter is the lightest, smallest water filter. It's a good choice for soldiers, hiking, camping, fishing, hunting, climbing, trip/ travel, out-door work, survival, and emergency Also, it's very easy to operate: just pump the handle to instantly remove dangerous contaminants from drinking water.

This pump is also used by the Canadian army for its size, reliability and filtering capabilities.

Characteristics:
- 100% removes bacteria in water like Escherichia coli, Staphylococcus aureus, Salmonella typhi, Vibrio cholerae, Legionella pneumophila, Giardia intestinalis.
- Filters out particles down to 0.1 micron — compare to the best commercially available unit that can only filter down to 0.2 micron!
- Entirely eliminates suspended contaminants of protozoa, algae, worms, dusts, etc.
- Efficiently removes heavy metal ions in water such as Pb2+, Cd2+, Cr6+, As3+, etc.
- Efficiently decreases organic pollutants.
- Having a good ability to remove odors and cloudiness.

Features:
-Smallest: can be held in glasses box.
-Lightest: less than 90g.
-Environment friendly: cleanable filter cartridge.
-High filtration fineness: unique dual ceramic membranes cartridge with mean pore size of 0.1 micron.

Technical Data:
- Size of ceramic membrane's aperture: 0.1 micron
- Output: Approx. 0.3 l/min (10 oz. per minute)
- Capacity: 2,000 liters (530 gallons)
- Weight: Approx. 88g (3 oz.)
- Dimensions: 13.8×5.7×2.8cm
- Material: ABS plastic, Ceramic, Nano-KDF

Made by Pure Easy

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Swedish log candles, for warmth and cooking using just one log per burn.

Below videos of how to make them, also without the use of a chainsaw and just splitting them by hand.

rJtGlCBosFA

ZFptOQAdKDQ

WfRovJ1KcCg

vjQRLQTNsJo

FALfPmh0BdA

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Windowfarming, these can chugg out at least a few salads a week when done properly, its not hard, i eat tomatoes and cucumbers grown right inside my windowseal.


http://www.windowfarms.org/

Building instructions are on the site as well. ENJOY YOUR GREENS

PkCuPrsPn_I

4uQ6Pc8YKr8

-8shuvMGIvc

ghsl7aAzdv8

fjItiepmPA0

[LivingLight]

Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100.

Yes, I do have a portable gas grill that was given to my husband and I last spring as a wedding gift. We have not used it yet, mainly because we haven't bothered to learn how. I know this is so sad, but I feel like I'm part of an entire generation who never learned how to do basic things. I always go to the grocery store when I run out of food, never gardened, never canned anything, etc... I don't even have a flashlight or batteries. I'm so glad I found this wake-up call.

Even if there is no major disaster, I agree I should still learn how to can food. I'll try to teach myself how. I think it would save money since produce is generally cheaper in the summer.

I don't know what I would do if things got really bad. If people start turning to canabalism, I might just take an overdose of pills. I'd rather die than survive by those means. I'll bet there would be a lot of suicides.

[Arrowwind]

This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.
.

I could not disagree more.

Many many people in the USA have already lost their pocketbooks, many others were born with no pocketbooks
Others are seeing their pocket books melting away as they search for work
This is about learning how to survive in a world that gave too many no survival skills for an economy
that is potentially coming to an end.

Just how do you survive in a concrete jungle
disconnected from the earth?

you said "First of all, you are ....everything. You are a complete universe (see: Bruce Lipton). Everyone is. So if you feel fear, we all do. Especially in a closed loop community (forum) on-line."

this is what sounds like newage mumbo jumbo to me, and although I have much respect for Bruce Lipton, being the homeoapth he is, every homeopath knows that a disease cannot be rightly cured unless you clearly understand the presenting symptoms and issues so that the correct remedy can be assigned.

There are mental and physical and spiritual symptoms that must be addressed.
Moving into denial on the current economic and political situation will not cure.
It must be discussed until people realize exactly where they stand
within their own circumstance in our social context
then they get to make their choice
and then they can abide an action that will lend to sustaining their existence
hopefully in an honorable and compassionate way

I suggest that those that often call out fear are the ones feeling it the most.
To stand in observation and call things by their proper name
is not fear, it is pragmatism.
If one smells fear look to one's own physiology

All transformation is preceded by chaos.
Navigating the chaos is of issue at this time.

[Arrowwind]

Metro 2033 had the right idea I think, even though it was a game, during an extended crisis we could very easily see bullets and other forms of ammunition supplant any paper or metal money. Ammunition being something nearly universally useful it would be valuable to all, enabling it to function as a means of exchange as well.

Exactly, diversifying ones options is good. A basket of wheat could equal a bushel of gold under supporting circumstances...
I do not necessarily like having to get into this survivalist mode and it certainly has not been the focus of my life
but considering the events around me I dont see an option.
The tides of masses of people who have no means of sustenance will direct the flow of energy for a time.
There are some very nasty and mean characters out there and to live in denial of this fact will not afford you
any benefit at all.
Keep a level head and an open heart and follow your gut instincts.

[joedjemal]

Also know what you can eat that grows naturally in your enviroment, dandi lions aren't to tasty but they do grow quickly and plentyfull on my lawn. there's lots of other greenery that most people see as eye sores right now but can and will make a meal..

If you get them before they flower they don't taste bad at all and you can roast the roots as a coffee substitute. I've been prepping for years. I'm just about self sufficient now. (Got 8 wild turkey eggs in one incubator and some runner ducks and chickens in the other right now) I is possible to become self sufficient on a very low income if you do it gradually but realistically you need access to land. The way I did it was some friends and I raised enough for 23 acres from donations. We created a trust to hold the land. If you can't get land container garden. You can grow a great deal of food in a small area. Buy an extra can or two or bag of rice or sugar every time you go shopping, it soon mounts up. Buy field guides for your local plants and fungi and get a copy of the us army or sas survival manual.

Every time you go out find a plant you don't know and identify it. Look it up on the net and learn what it can be used for. The knowledge mounts up as well if you're consistent. Plants for a future is an excellent web site for plant uses. Prepping leads to self sufficiency and becomes a way of life. If you're not prepped you need to get started immediately, anyone can see what's going on in the world. Unsustainable systems fail

[Arrowwind]

I really like the rocket stove idea. There are lots of written instructions if you do a search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSMR2ANIZ7E

This one is a little more high tech

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=797446823830833401&hl=en#

[joedjemal]

I wanted to say something to those that think prepping is a fear based thing, it's the opposite. I have enough knowledge now to be able to go anywhere in the temperate part of the world with nothing but a small knife and manage quite comfortably. I felt some fear when I first learned about collapse so I decided to make myself capable of dealing with it. No more fear. Having understanding of the world around you and knowledge of how to effectively deal with it is a much better way of dealing with fearful things than denying their existence.

If you see a piano falling towards your head you get out of the way you don't pretend it isn't there.

[toad]

Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

Do not fear my friend, do you know what is free and easy to stash? Knowledge, acquiring information is paramount and can be done cheap and easily. Learn to forage, learn to survive with minimum supplies. Sure having a 3month supply of food is great, but I wouldn't rely on that solely. Learning to forage edibles and mushrooms and knowing how to conduct yourself in nature I think is more important then building up a vast food supply. Various things can happen, you may get robbed, this may spoil, there may be a fire, you may have to leave suddenly and all will be lost. But if any of those things should occur granted you've prepared yourself with the right wisdom, you can survive so long as you know how to. I've always loved hunting and foraging my own food, plants/mushrooms, trapping, tracking, etc... I feel very confident in the forest and if things were to get really bad, I feel all would be well.

www.eattheweeds.com
www.invasivore.org
http://www.peaksurvival.us/Home.html
www.shroomery.org
http://huntgathergroweat.com/
http://gridfree.us/blog/
http://www.offthegridnews.com
http://www.eheerkens.com/

[mountain_jim]

I wanted to say something to those that think prepping is a fear based thing, it's the opposite. I have enough knowledge now to be able to go anywhere in the temperate part of the world with nothing but a small knife and manage quite comfortably. I felt some fear when I first learned about collapse so I decided to make myself capable of dealing with it. No more fear. Having understanding of the world around you and knowledge of how to effectively deal with it is a much better way of dealing with fearful things than denying their existence.

If you see a piano falling towards your head you get out of the way you don't pretend it isn't there.

I also want to speak to the



They are in touch with themselves (why the elites want them dead). And their 'universe' is safe and secure. Because it isn't dependent on money.
Which is what this is really about (and I brought up on another thread which no one read...or understands).

This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.

Throwing in new age terminology and jacking the 'end of times' garbage from different culture's myths/past to fit our current day circumstances, is a waste of our time.
I've been trying to discourage people from cementing this fixation into our reality (by keeping talking about it happening....which keeps bringing it into
our reality).

You are just helping them (the elites).
So I am finally saying something (even if people are uncomfortable talking about it at this level).

We do create our reality. You just don't know it (yet).


I disagree, in part, at least for myself. I am one of the more optimistic folks here, without believing or relying on any one thing other than my own intuition.

I also know I am a reality-creator-in-training, and that is part of why I choose to be an optimist about near-future events in the world I perceive.

Yet I also find value in knowing my physical survival is not dependant on (at least for awhile) electricity working, banks being open, trucks bringing food, or grocery stores open.

I also experienced being without power for 10 days winter before last. I did not consciously choose that reality (well I sort-of did by choosing to live this remote in the mountains), but it gave me an appreciation of what preparations I needed to make to handle a much longer outage of that nature.

I have made (an affordable, reasonable portion of) those preps. That's not Fear, that's being rational and having a Plan for possible Events.

I understand and somewhat agree with some points you made in the above quote, eileenrose, but your statements (in bold) seem to me to paint all who try and follow Current Events and prepare (for short-term disruptions in the systems at a minimum) with a broad, judgmental brush.

I suggest this judgment might also imply the Fear that others will not create as one thinks they should.

[spiritguide]

Thanks to all who contributed to the thread. There is a good sharing of information here for the independence of people and advice to those in denial that think they are immune to natural or man made disasters. The Creator has provided and mother earth shares openly and those that study this will know what it is to live without fear. Join in and be part of the CREATION not insulated from it, many wise ones know what true independence from man made systems is and listen to the laws of nature as they unfold. There is spirit in all.

:peace:

[Alan]

eileenrose, the world is filled with dangers, this cannot be disputed.

Are you suggesting we simply ignore the danger? This seems foolish to me.

One can face danger with no fear or minimal fear, but sometimes fear cannot be controlled.

Is it safe to say you have no insurance -- fire, car, life? After all, preparing for possible catastrophe is fear porn, isn't it?

[Selene]

If I may, friends, I think we should perhaps make it clear that I – and I’m sure many others here – are not responding to eileenrose’s comments in order to single them out, but because these comments represent a common and popular response to prepping: denial and rejection.

Her response is representative of the reactions of many, many others. So they serve as a springboard for discussion here. And I thank her for expressing these views; they are helpful. But debate at this level is probably pointless. Those who have ears to hear, will…

Everyone here, at the end of the day, will make their own personal determination about how to respond to their perceived environment. That includes ‘no response’, ‘I’d rather be dead’, or ‘I’ve got a better idea…’ To each his own.

And in the larger picture, that is the only way it ought to work; we each contribute to the whole in our own way. There should not be any ‘one size fits all’ response to perceived situations. The human species is best served by widely varying and diverse strategies for going forward. This is the best means of ensuring that some of us, at the end of the day, will carry civilization onward by whatever means.

So I respect eileenrose’s representative point of view as an informed response of some kind, on whatever terms.

But I will also choose my own path, as must we all.

I value highly the practical tips being put forward here. If creating a culture of preparation does nothing more than preserve these traditional skills going forward beyond our own lifetimes, we will perhaps have done our job for those yet to come and times yet undetermined.

Cheers,

Selene

[eileenrose]

So what if we don't? take precautions, save water and material items and so forth. What is the worse that can happen? I am just tired of hearing the fear mongering and have taken a siesta from it myself. It has been five years of this (for me). ...announcements of impending doom.

It is almost as if some individuals aspire for something negative to happen and when it doesn't happen, they start looking for more negative news (to feel that feeling again....of inadequacy or something...) just to get a fix.

I feel reality is tons more complicated and there are no easy solutions.

Just being here and present with what is happening in my life right now is the only demand I put on myself (the new symptoms of a heart condition are helping with this....yes...even dis-ease is more interesting to me that more 'end of the world' talk now).When I lived on the coast in the southeast US (Charleston, SC), there were several days worth of advance notice of hurricanes, and all the while watching them to see if they would "make land." We prepared. It was not doom and gloom, it was simply preparation for what we saw coming. We knew (or at least we fully assumed) we would live through it, but knew we needed to be smart enough to prepare as best we could.

The international bankers have been very naughty, selling worthless paper over and over and over making hundreds of trillions in debt pile up. There are a number of economic factors that make it obvious that there is an economic hurricane coming at us. It will "hit land" (our economy, and the world economy), and NOT preparing is not a good idea. This economic hurricane will hit whether we are prepared or not. It is our "good fortune" to have a bit of time to prepare. It can be done with joy (like prepping for a camping trip.)

I do understand what you're talking about, and I try not to let it overwhelm me (and try to make sure I don't overwhelm my loved ones when I talk about this stuff.) But disengaging from the overwhelming emotion must not prevent us from getting prepared. Being proactive is satisfying. Read Selene's posts above, and see if you can feel the emotion she is experiencing. Her words have a smart, proactive, calm feeling to me.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,
If you feel you need to do any activity, then trust your gut.

I wasn't talking about specific actions.
I was referring to something else....people using this crisis as a way to keep their fear state activated.

As anyone who has lived in fear knows, you arn't objective.

The best people in a crisis arn't the one's with a year of store goods (though sometimes), it is the people who arn't afraid....
as they just help others without fearing for themselves.

This will be the one skill set to have....being unafraid.

Which has little to zero to do with storing food....again, not saying to not store food or find out what to do in an emergency.

But, if an emergency comes, often it is unknown what the solution to it is.
Again, it helps to keep your wits about you and not be scared easily.

And there are few to zero classes to help your mental state.

And I have an additional comment, this isn't going to happen. One huge, in one moment, end of the world. That is just propaganda.

No, they are much meaner than that...the people making us poor. No, it will be little by little they kill us off. That is what my intuition says (anyway). But I don't have any
facts....just guidance...that we will be killed by our own fear.

[Dennis Leahy]

So what if we don't? take precautions, save water and material items and so forth. What is the worse that can happen?
...When I lived on the coast in the southeast US (Charleston, SC), there were several days worth of advance notice of hurricanes, and all the while watching them to see if they would "make land." We prepared. It was not doom and gloom, it was simply preparation for what we saw coming. ...

Hi Dennis,
If you feel you need to do any activity, then trust your gut.

I wasn't talking about specific actions.
I was referring to something else....people using this crisis as a way to keep their fear state activated.

As anyone who has lived in fear knows, you arn't objective.

The best people in a crisis arn't the one's with a year of store goods (though sometimes), it is the people who arn't afraid....
as they just help others without fearing for themselves.

This will be the one skill set to have....being unafraid.

Which has little to zero to do with storing food....again, not saying to not store food or find out what to do in an emergency.

But, if an emergency comes, often it is unknown what the solution to it is.
Again, it helps to keep your wits about you and not be scared easily.

And there are few to zero classes to help your mental state.

And I have an additional comment, this isn't going to happen. One huge, in one moment, end of the world. That is just propaganda.

No, they are much meaner than that...the people making us poor. No, it will be little by little they kill us off. That is what my intuition says (anyway). But I don't have any
facts....just guidance...that we will be killed by our own fear.
I see both a "slow burn" and an upcoming "forest fire." Two different scenarios that both need to be dealt with individually. These two scenarios have in common: greed and oppression based (at their end), and that fear will hinder the outcome (at our end.)

The 'slow burn' is the daily, insidious stuff done to humanity. The chemtrails, fluoride, GMOs, pollutants in air water and soil, soil loss, soil sterilization, vaccines, deliberate poor education, debt money, foreclosure, them buying rights to aquifers, pharmaceuticals and herbal suppression, etc. etc. etc.

The upcoming 'forest fire' is a deliberate financial shakedown, similar to what the bankers did in the US in 1929 - only this time it is exponentially bigger and will be worldwide. That slow burn, insidious debt money and the ever-increasing "national debt" has always been a problem... but the "eventually" that we kept saying would happen "someday" (the debt spirialing to a point where it becomes impossible to pay back) is here. Surprisingly, that isn't the forest fire. Recognizing that most people would drop into a trance state when highfalutin economic jargon words are strung together in sentences and delivered dispassionately and in monotone, the international bankers have developed a way to do whatever they want financially, knowing we will be confused and will shut down our brains. Not satisfied with skimming the greed-based debt money, they came up with derivatives. It is a fancy way to bundle debts (which, bizarrely, have become a traded "commodity" or "financial instrument") and hide the origins and most of the particulars. I'll bet that most traders that have traded derivatives do not know precisely what they traded. But trade they did. Over and over and over again, starting from known bad "paper"/debt bundles and creating more debt (and profit for them) with each trade. The US national debt is around $15 trillion. The debt from trading derivatives is somewhere between $250 trillion and $1.4 quadrillion dollars. The figure $700 Trillion is the most frequently used number, lately. So, you can see that if the US national debt reached its crisis state at $15 trillion, that a debt "bomb" forty-six times bigger, hanging over our heads, a "bubble" about to burst, is a financial crisis. That is the upcoming forest fire.

This thread is about that upcoming forest fire, and has hints of what it might mean when that bubble bursts and how to get by during the (deliberately manufactured) crisis. Again, this will be used as a skakedown for further wealth acumulation, and they do not care who suffers or dies in the short term. The major thing we will be dealing with is hyperinflation, and that is why having enough food stored to last until next summer when you can grow some more is really really wise. It won't "fix" the hyperinflation, just empty bellies.

100 years ago, everyone grew food and stored enough for winter. We got lulled out of that sane practice into the insanity of becoming dependent on a truck to bring food to the store every few days. This has nothing to do with fear, but it has a lot to do with wisdom and using the wisdom to prepare for the economic forest fire, the derivatives bubble burst.

We can't know everything about the great unknown, the future. But we should be able to see this one coming. There is a way to fix it, but unfortunately the politicians sponsored into power by the international bankers are not going to. They are playing the role they were paid to play. They were paid to make sure it does not get fixed. So, we would be ignorant if we do nothing. Fear and worry suck, but this coming winter, it really won't matter to your family's bellies if you stored some food in fear or wisdom.

Dennis

[ljwheat]

IMO, that in the USA, and similar cultures of plenty, carry three months of stores on there body’s, and with only a good supply of water and a meager ration of one small portion of a meal every other day they would survive,. In the German camps people had even less to live on. And the ones who lived the longest were like the bar’s in the woods before winter and lived primarily on body fat. I know it sounds sick to speak this way but nature, and science have shown the true facts of the physical conditioning, and the minimum’s any individual could with stand.

When or if all the niceties in society, fall, restrictive thinking, self denial and conservation in rationing your own store’s, or fasting, critical thinking in the moment of need is critical not to panic. When the moment comes it’s the brain and how well its disciplined in forsight on what you have to do in that moment. And you wont be alone I’m sure. You may have to let some one else ration your lot to survive if your will power has no stake in your survival by rationing what is available in any given situation.

Separating yourself from the masses will be in the beginning the most critical prudent move you could possibly make, crowds die quicker than a individual caught in the inner city or earban area’s.

There are no safety in numbers if there all hungry and thirsty and with child. Hunting and gathering occupies a lot of territory in real life, that’s impossible in a large populas that’s starving. The few that make it to remote parts of nature, the meek will inherit the earth, pick up the sword and you will die by it. As it signals to all that you have something to protect, and they will investigate just to see what you have. I would say a good knowledge of tools needed to set up house with nature is more prudent than storing up a supply of store’s for they will run out, nature doesn’t have that kind of problem now dose it?
Getting back to nature and spirit and mother earth away from the slavery of civilization when its disappears even if you have to walk out with just a back pack of survival tools to begin back were we originally started home stead with our brains and hands you may make it. Thinking on your feet while moving in a safe direction, and not waiting for your comfortable life to return the way it used to be, may not happen should it be a total collapse, all who stay and try to save there life will loose it, animals in nature now this truth ;--we have forgotten it. Those who can not rap there heads around this will be the -- deer caught in the headlights of the on coming change. Poo POOing any or this tells me those are the lazy I don’t care, I’ll wait to be rescued I’m going to look the other way till I’m in need, and then it will be:--- Hay give me some of yours or I’ll kill you for it People lazy, lazy, people,. Grass hoppers and ants good story for this winter we are moving into don’t you think? Critical thinking will save your life, not weapons and store's and staying put. a moving targe is much safer from getting holes. John XXX