Is smoking bad for you? Discuss...

[Connecting with Sauce]

I do a lot with my intention as does a friend ...

Her view is that if she doesn't believe smoking is bad for her, then it won't be... using NLP, Intention etc etc...

I think there are toxins in tabacco 'they' add in...

So what are other's views on this... I'd be interested to know...

Is one of us deluded... or both of us :)

[seko]

My dad has smoked toxic cigarettes for over six decades and he only coughs, but no cancer or any kind of disease related to smoking. When he was younger he thought it was good and cool to smoke. Now he knows that the are toxic but he said he never thinks that they are toxic.....

Everything is in the mind.

[Arrowwind]

Intention has a powerful effect on health but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The intention of the tobacco industry is to get you addicted and to take your money starting at as early an age as possible.

Native Americans smoked tobacco it is said, without addiction and without ill health. I cannot say that this is true or not but I suspect there may be some truth to it.

Take your tobacco as mother nature created it, without added chemicals, without toxic papers. Roll your own, choose organic tobacco. ... you will also save a bunch of money doing so.

I do not believe that tobacco necessarily causes cancer. Too many people smoke even the toxic cigarrettes without getting cancer. By and large the majority of lung cancer is caused by radiation IMHO and this is why lung cancer is exploding across the USA, not to mention other cancers. We now have 3 generations exposed to radiation from nuclear testing and other sources. We will pay. We will continue to pay. The plan is to push much of the cause onto cigarettes and to make smokers pay at an ufair level for a disease that cigarettes do not cause.

Smoking can cause COPD in some people. This I am certain of and it can cause vascular disease due to inflammatory reactions of the blood vessels to the tobacco compounds in the blood. Vascular disease can lead to dementia. This can be mitigated by large dosages of vitamin c, quercetin and rutin daily, as well as sufficient vitamin D3, all in combination. Serrapeptase will further reduce inflammation.. so there are some dangers to smoking.

All of this risk can be reduced by smoking natural tobacco products. How bad these diseases get will vary according to ones constitution and the amount that is smoked daily.

[RMorgan]

Hey mate,

Smoking industrialized tabacco is very bad for health. It simply is, just check the statistics; they don´t lie.

A regular cigarette has more poison than tabacco itself.

I would advice your friend, if she doesn´t want to quit, to start smoking only organic tabacco. It will be much better for her.

Cheers,

Raf.

[pugwash84]

I've seen people smoke themselves to death and say that if they quit it will be worse for them, when quite frankly if they quit it would be a lot better. For some reason some people think quitting will kill them and it is not true. I quit with the help of an electronic cig and I can smell that some people stink of cigs now and I didn't notice it whilst I smoked, it reaks.

[modwiz]

I do a lot with my intention as does a friend ...

Her view is that if she doesn't believe smoking is bad for her, then it won't be... using NLP, Intention etc etc...

I think there are toxins in tabacco 'they' add in...

So what are other's views on this... I'd be interested to know...

Is one of us deluded... or both of us :)

Smoking more than about 5 cigarettes a day is bad for you. I will keep it simple and not even address the chemicals in a modern, mainstream American cigarette. I will note that my nose and mucus membranes can tell the difference between untreated, roll-your-own tobacco and the chemically laden stuff. I do not find the former offensive.

Back to smoking. The lungs/body has the capacity to absorb and process a small amount of tar. The lungs are very well plumbed with circulation and can clean the lungs at a certain rate. Anything above the rate will be accumulative. That accumulation creates a chronic burden on the lungs and that burden will manifest as chronic bronchitis. Unless bronchitis, of any sort, is no longer considered a negative health condition, then smoking is unequivocally bad for you.

So, this is not about cancer or smoking killing you, but a simple answer to your question. I smoked when I was younger. Before smoking I ran up the four flights of stairs in my apartment building without a thought. Two years later those same stairs would make me collapse on my bed, flat on my back, to catch my air back. I was 16 years old. I quit within 18 months of that. That stark comparison was all I needed. It took a few tries because one has to learn that once you stop, you cannot have one here and there without the habit returning almost overnight.

The toxins make it worse for sure.

If you can limit your smoking to 4-5 cigarettes a day, then the bronchitis issue should not be a problem for most.

Based on the reply of your friend, perhaps the real question is whether smoking is deadly for you. In that case intention would play a huge part. The real reason for warning on packages is to make them more deadly. It is part of the programming. The tobacco industry gets your money until you get handed over the pharmaceutical industry.

My question is, do you really want to give your money to these psychopaths?

What we feed only grows stronger.

Will people ever wake up to this?

[sdv]

So true about the toxicity and addictiveness of cigarettes. I switched to hand-rolled cigarettes about a month ago and the difference is immense. I smoke a LOT less now. Since I started smoking hand-rolled, I have occasionally smoked a pre-packaged cigarette and with the latter all I taste is chemicals, and one is never enough.

Oh, and I use hemp unbleached papers!

[Seikou-Kishi]

The thing is, they went from being fine to being toxic, and they did that because people noticed the toxic effect. The toxicity was there before the belief in toxicity, so it cannot be that the harmful effects of cigarettes is just a nocebo. It's possible that positive belief despite the prevailing consensus has some protective faculty, but you'd really be swimming against the current to rely on it, and that's just putting off the inevitable.

It's an argument I've heard before, and I've always wondered whether the propounder finds it easier to believe in the harmlessness of cigarettes than to give up their addiction to them.

[conk]

By some accounts there are over 400 different chemicals added to tobacco by the big companies. A chemical for making the cig burn longer, one to make it burn even, one to make it not go out, one to.......you get the idea. Probably half are used to aid in the addiction ( just my wild thought).

Dr. William Douglas writes that organic, untreated tobacco actually shows some health benefit. Empirical data supports his contention.

Those suffering the more dreaded dis-eases as a result of smoking factory tobacco have a genetic propensity for that ailment. 10 others who smoke just as much would not see that dis-ease manifest in their body, not having that gene marker. Genetics usually only come into play when malnourished, or an environmental or emotional toxin directs the genes to express themselves as the negative experience.

So, yes your friend is deluding herself into thinking her intentions will protect her. She certainly has no ideas about the subconcious intentions she holds, which are vastly more powerful than her conscious thoughts.

[MargueriteBee]

Just grow your own tobacco organically and you will be fine. What causes the cancer is the pesticide and fake fertilizer the corporations use to grow it.

[transiten]

I never tasted a cigarette and i thank my classmates that tried to force a cigarette into my mouth that surely added to my disinterest.

I said to my stepsister when i was 12 i will never start to smoke (i still remember the exact place where the telephone was in the livingroom when i talked to her) She smoked since whe was 14 and she died of lungcancer when she was 62, 2 years ago.

[Midnight Rambler]

I have just quit smoking about three weeks ago and it is very clear to me now, after smoking 23 years: I have kept myself ill all this time with every cigarette I smoked. Now that I have stopped smoking I am feeling better and better (after some heavy withdrawl :))

When I still lit up I told myself all kinds of lies to assure myself that I was not a crazy for smoking these death sticks. Like: if the government tells me smoking kills it must be a lie :)

All in all I am happy that I stopped it and I wonder if your friend is better of convincing herself and her body that smoking is harmless or just stop the habit and save a little money while she is at it.

[spiritguide]

Moderation in all things we have been told. Extreme action in anything can cause illness and death. ODing on food will eventually kill you. IMHO

[sirdipswitch]

I smoke. I like it. I ain't gonna quit. Fear causes disease. Worry causes disease. That's why TV addvertising bombards you with worry about the daily health hazzard. That's why I don't have a TV. I ain't gonna listen to it. We are Immortal Spiritual Beings. We came here to have a physical experience. I am enjoying mine immensely. You can enjoy yours... or not. Besides, Lizard People are alergic to tobaco. But then at my age, I would probly be to tough to eat anyway. chuckle chuckle

You will live and "experience" precisely as you agreed to come here and do, and nothing more, or less. And your higher self is in complete control of all that you agreed to experience. All the gas I drank when I was a kid, didn't Kill me. Working behind a tractor breathing diesel smoke all day, didn't kill me. Driving cars trucks and motorcycles over cliffs didn't kill me. Walking alone through rioting Gettos at night didn't kill me (ya I'm white, so what?).

I did not fear then. I do not fear now. I will not fear because my govt says cigarets cause cancer. They have lied to me before.

Fear nothing, YOU are Immortal.


love and peace
sirdipswitch

[Star Tsar]

I remember hearing on an interview that the negative ET's did'nt want us smoking because it would ruin the food source for them hence the smoking bans.
Trying to remeber but its a blank at the moment.
:(

[WHOMADEGOD]

I smoke. I like it. I ain't gonna quit. Fear causes disease. Worry causes disease. That's why TV addvertising bombards you with worry about the daily health hazzard. That's why I don't have a TV. I ain't gonna listen to it. We are Immortal Spiritual Beings. We came here to have a physical experience. I am enjoying mine immensely. You can enjoy yours... or not. Besides, Lizard People are alergic to tobaco. But then at my age, I would probly be to tough to eat anyway. chuckle chuckle

You will live and "experience" precisely as you agreed to come here and do, and nothing more, or less. And your higher self is in complete control of all that you agreed to experience. All the gas I drank when I was a kid, didn't Kill me. Working behind a tractor breathing diesel smoke all day, didn't kill me. Driving cars trucks and motorcycles over cliffs didn't kill me. Walking alone through rioting Gettos at night didn't kill me (ya I'm white, so what?).

I did not fear then. I do not fear now. I will not fear because my govt says cigarets cause cancer. They have lied to me before.

Fear nothing, YOU are Immortal.


love and peace
sirdipswitch

Mmmmm, see how immortal you are in paliative care when your remaining days are spent wheezimg and coughing up thick brown mucus and blood and tar, and attemptimg to walk further than ten feet is impossible. Your veins are thick with black tar and if you are luckyy enough lung cancer will finish you off albeit slowly and painfully. Hero!

I watched my mother go through this, I really dont reccomend it.

As previously stated, every thimg in moderation.

[modwiz]

I smoke. I like it. I ain't gonna quit. Fear causes disease. Worry causes disease. That's why TV addvertising bombards you with worry about the daily health hazzard. That's why I don't have a TV. I ain't gonna listen to it. We are Immortal Spiritual Beings. We came here to have a physical experience. I am enjoying mine immensely. You can enjoy yours... or not. Besides, Lizard People are alergic to tobaco. But then at my age, I would probly be to tough to eat anyway. chuckle chuckle

You will live and "experience" precisely as you agreed to come here and do, and nothing more, or less. And your higher self is in complete control of all that you agreed to experience. All the gas I drank when I was a kid, didn't Kill me. Working behind a tractor breathing diesel smoke all day, didn't kill me. Driving cars trucks and motorcycles over cliffs didn't kill me. Walking alone through rioting Gettos at night didn't kill me (ya I'm white, so what?).

I did not fear then. I do not fear now. I will not fear because my govt says cigarets cause cancer. They have lied to me before.

Fear nothing, YOU are Immortal.


love and peace
sirdipswitch

You did switch (or is that dipswitch? :confused:) the subject from bad for you, to killing you. I addressed both in my post without conflation or substitution.

Are you stating that you do not have bronchitis and that is not a negative health condition?

I agree completely about fear and disease. My own path has demonstrated that to me over the decades and it is a good message to keep on putting out there.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

There are actually two questions here.

1) Is smoking bad for you?

2) Does intention trump common sense?

I think the first question is really not that relevant to what you are really asking. As for the second one, I wouldn't try using intention instead of an oil change to keep my car mechanically sound.


here is a thread about smoking- http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40496-Smoking-Kills-Experiment-Medical-Facts-and-Statistics

[sirdipswitch]

K.W.B
That is correct.

WHOMADEGOD
I am only responsible for what I say, not what you understand.

love and peace
sirdipswitch

[fathertedsmate]

questions i asked myself to get answers,
1, tobbaco in its natural form, enhances brain cell growth, why do they put 400 plus toxins,chemicals,heavy metals in,
after some fault finding on the body, this was the answer i got.
lungs are designed to function in a natural enviroment,their job is to eliminate toxins being taken in,whilst supplying oxygen to the fuel system, as time goes on they fill up, become less efficient, (bit like a vacume cleaner bag,when full) the ability to supply oxygen diminishes,the knock on effect will be manifested in behaviour,actions,reactions,created by thoughts, which will all be negative,you think its just your nature,when all the time the lack of oxygen ensures when the mind requires energy,the fuel supply is oxygen depleted, complete combustion cannot take place,
they are a delivery system to get chemicals and toxins into the body.
worked that out whilst smoking a joint, then went about working out how to clean out, this is an on going project, using a nebuliser,magnesium oil,gluthion,baking soda,MMS (inhaling) its working, how efficient would the car be if the air filter was never changed,lol

[K626]

I smoke. I like it. I ain't gonna quit. Fear causes disease. Worry causes disease. That's why TV addvertising bombards you with worry about the daily health hazzard. That's why I don't have a TV. I ain't gonna listen to it. We are Immortal Spiritual Beings. We came here to have a physical experience. I am enjoying mine immensely. You can enjoy yours... or not. Besides, Lizard People are alergic to tobaco. But then at my age, I would probly be to tough to eat anyway. chuckle chuckle

You will live and "experience" precisely as you agreed to come here and do, and nothing more, or less. And your higher self is in complete control of all that you agreed to experience. All the gas I drank when I was a kid, didn't Kill me. Working behind a tractor breathing diesel smoke all day, didn't kill me. Driving cars trucks and motorcycles over cliffs didn't kill me. Walking alone through rioting Gettos at night didn't kill me (ya I'm white, so what?).

I did not fear then. I do not fear now. I will not fear because my govt says cigarets cause cancer. They have lied to me before.

Fear nothing, YOU are Immortal.


love and peace
sirdipswitch

I smoke 8-12 hand rolled cigs a day (a little over the Modwiz line). :)

I feel much better now that I don't smoke commercial big brand cigs any longer and the difference is astounding in the sense that I can sense and feel they are much healthier**.

I personally believe that cancer rates have strong corollations to genetics in individuals and that unfortunately some people are just more susceptible to the disease than others. My grandmother smoked for 50 years and drank a glass of whisky a day and lived to a ripe old age and so on...

It is interesting to note that research in America on cig smoking and the impact on health began at the very same time that the country was carrying out dozens of nuclear tests a year inc some 'sky burst' in the upper atmosphere.

"This was the notorious “Trinity Test”, the first dirty nuclear weapon to be detonated in the atmosphere. A six-kilogram sphere of plutonium, compressed to supercriticality by explosive lenses, Trinity exploded over New Mexico with a force equal to approximately 20,000 tons of TNT. Within seconds, billions of deadly radioactive particles were sucked into the atmosphere to an altitude of six miles, where high-speed jet streams could circulate them far and wide.

The American Government knew about the radiation in advance, was well aware of its lethal effects on humans, but bluntly ordered the test with a complete disregard for health and welfare. In law, this was culpable gross negligence, but the American Government did not care. Sooner or later, one way or the other, they would find another culprit for any long-term effects suffered by Americans and other citizens in local and more remote areas."


The rats in the labs who had 'smoked' (cig smoke passed through cages) lived longer than the rats that were just exposed to irradiated air. Both groups were exposed to airbourne radiation. The smoker rats lived months longer than the non-smoker rats. Why? Cause the lungs release a lot of defence chemicals when you start to smoke. :)

Do what you want, believe what you want, be yourself....Life is short.


K

[Connecting with Sauce]

Oh, and I use hemp unbleached papers!

She rolls her own and uses tabbaco from the packets so I may investigate some of these papers... Are they readily available anywhere in the UK?


We both do pyschic surgery so I know I could sort her out if the worst happened... I just want to know she is ok and not harming herself :)

The thread has got a few people discussing it so it has sparked some thoughts at least.

Ok I'm off to my FIR-sauna blanket to listen to some aware radio and sweat some toxins out...

[Connecting with Sauce]

how efficient would the car be if the air filter was never changed,lol

As I have ~14 years of Automotive air induction experience... really depends on the air quality of your environment ...LOL :)

If you drove around a smoky camp fire in your car it would soon block up, cars in city centres do block with diesel particulates as it happens which is smoke in a way...

[jorr lundstrom]

We buy raw tobacco. 1 kilo, just dried, nothing added. Maria rolls

her cigarettes. I smoke a pipe. Ive been smoking for 48 years,

never coughed. I dunno if its bad for me. Living is a danderous

condition, the body will stop functioning at laast. Up to that

moment I suppose I will go on smoking my pipe.


All is well


Jorr

[toad]

My dad has smoked toxic cigarettes for over six decades and he only coughs, but no cancer or any kind of disease related to smoking. When he was younger he thought it was good and cool to smoke. Now he knows that the are toxic but he said he never thinks that they are toxic.....

Everything is in the mind.

Well there is much more to diseases like cancer and heart disease then just the carcinogens and toxins in cigs itself, like genetic predispostion and family history and what have you.

I can't imagine that smoking anything is good for you, or not bad. Its funny how the additive free tobacco like american spirits which I tend to enjoy are way more expensive then the fags that have all sorts of additives in them, heh you have to pay a premium for less. :(

[scanner]

Smoke as much as you want , I'm a non-smoker but we all die , smoke drink what the feck we all die of something . Hey have fun whats the matter with you folks .

[Unicorn]

I've found this interesting info. By the way, I am not a smoker:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110801111738.htm

http://moonbeammemos.blogspot.com.es/2005/10/smoking-helps-protect-against-lung.html

[Eram]

I do a lot with my intention as does a friend ...

Her view is that if she doesn't believe smoking is bad for her, then it won't be... using NLP, Intention etc etc...

I think there are toxins in tabacco 'they' add in...

So what are other's views on this... I'd be interested to know...

Is one of us deluded... or both of us :)

Jesus has been said to walk on water.
To do so, he'd had to have a deep profound ego transcending believe in this ability.

When your friend says he can overcome the obvious damaging influence of smoking cigarettes... he's either a person I'd love to meet, or he is deluding himself with the ego-mind. The ego perfectly well knows what smoking cigarettes can do to a human body, no matter what it is trying programming itself with, through the use of 'NLP'.

[butcherman]

unkanny I'm on my fourth week and can only agree hole hartedly.

Butcherman :)

[scanner]

When you all realise non , not one of us lives forever you'll undstand nothing , and I mean nothing we do is WRONG . How can it be ? We all end the same way . You drink , you die . You do drugs , you die . You live long , you die . you live short , you die . Bit of a patern here don't you think ?

[DouglasDanger]

The rats in the labs who had 'smoked' (cig smoke passed through cages) lived longer than the rats that were just exposed to irradiated air. Both groups were exposed to airbourne radiation. The smoker rats lived months longer than the non-smoker rats. Why? Cause the lungs release a lot of defence chemicals when you start to smoke. :)

Do what you want, believe what you want, be yourself....Life is short.


K


This idea is also in the movie Screamers ( 1995), humans try to survive on a post apocoliptic mars, during certain radiation spikes they would pull out the "pink cigarets" because as explained by Peter Weller in the movie, the pink ones are a special formula to ward of the effects of the radiation on the lungs. At one point he says something along the lines " can you believe they used to tell us these where bad for us, now they protect us from radiation"

I have COPD from 20 years of smoking, technicaly longer if you include having it blown in my face since birth by my father.( I started at 15 smoked 25 + a day untill i turned 35) My first visit to the specialist 3.5 years ago I was told I have the lung capacity of a 118 year old man, the last visit I have improved to that of an 80 year old man, Everyone reacts differently to its effects.
If you have ever seen a tabacco kiln you'll notice the thing that looks and smells like a roofing tar warmer blowing smoke into it, is the same machine and substance( along with other added stuff) the same equipment used to keep roofing tar warm, Literally its cured with roofing tar and added crap.. I can't even be in the same room with a smoker now, and I can smell when someone has smoked hours before talking to them, your breath is discusting, your cloths reek and it causes me to have asmatic like reactions until I take a hit off my puffer. It ruined me for weed too, same reactions even through a vaporizer...

[Mike]

yes










.................................................................................................... .........

[another bob]

We buy raw tobacco. 1 kilo, just dried, nothing added. Maria rolls

her cigarettes. I smoke a pipe. Ive been smoking for 48 years,

never coughed. I dunno if its bad for me. Living is a danderous

condition, the body will stop functioning at laast. Up to that

moment I suppose I will go on smoking my pipe.


All is well


Jorr

Our physical death is timed into the body before we are even born, and whether we smoke or not will not change that by one extra minute. What smoking will do is decrease the quality of the life we do have, as will other harmful habits, such as heavy drug and alchohol abuse, persistent stress, bad attitude, and so forth.

[Mike Gorman]

It is interesting how the topic of smoking tobacco has been engineered by public Health authorities over the past 15 years or so.
Those of you who are Baby Boomers will recall how absolutely natural it seemed to smoke back in the 60's/70's with ubiquitous advertising to-boot.
The issue of smoking is not so much a Health issue, which most rational people agree, smoking is not a Health choice. But it is a CHOICE, and this is the point.

Since when did the state decide for people what they should do, how they should spend their own money, and time?

I have smoked since the age of about 13, and do not have a cough, and so-far have not suffered any ill-health as a result. Certainly, i have made the switch to E-Cigs over the past 2 years-and this has helped me reduce to about 4-5 toxic ciggies a day-often less.

So yes, we know manufactured Baccy is toxic, but it is not a foregone conclusion you will get sick, people are all different (what, they are?) But, the issue is one of free-choice, not this hysterical health Nazism that has crept into our society, ever-so-slowly....

[WHOMADEGOD]

When you all realise non , not one of us lives forever you'll undstand nothing , and I mean nothing we do is WRONG . How can it be ? We all end the same way . You drink , you die . You do drugs , you die . You live long , you die . you live short , you die . Bit of a patern here don't you think ?

I think an important part of this issue is no so much the mortality aspect, although it should be, but the quality of life we lead while we are here.

I used to be a fitness fanatic, I also used to smoke, I know how it affected me personally in terms of breathlessness.

You only have to look in any hospital and zee the majority of older people and still younger ones shuffling around with ashen and wrinkled faces wheezing away. I am not going out like that.

Then of course there is the proven link between smoking and cot death. Although this may be ciggarettes.

And finally, IT STINKS!!!

(Nothing worse than an ex smoker! Its only because I care x)

Mark

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

I have one of these... The GGTS.
I never planned on quitting smoking as I like it. But I don't like being told when & where I can smoke. I don't like smoking in a room with non smokers. I don't like the smell it leaves. And of course I don't like it controlling me. Oh and I don't like the costs.
Add on top of all that I hate that it could be killing my health. Wheezy and well anyway thats enough to hate. Then I came across the GGTS and my whole life changed.

Seriously everyone who smokes should at least consider one of these. Unless you smoke a pipe or make your own organic leaves, you won't get how cool it is. But to make your own flavors and smoke freely anywhere is fantastic.

I have had this for 6 months and I still play around mixing flavors and getting a good hit with flavors.

Latest mix I love is strawberry, mint, with apple and kiwi, and a drop of liquorice
on top of every drip I make for a tangy rich flavor.

There are many more different and more simple models but the GGTS is like the creme de la creme.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AcMsJEt_y0

[scanner]

When you all realise non , not one of us lives forever you'll undstand nothing , and I mean nothing we do is WRONG . How can it be ? We all end the same way . You drink , you die . You do drugs , you die . You live long , you die . you live short , you die . Bit of a patern here don't you think ?

I think an important part of this issue is no so much the mortality aspect, although it should be, but the quality of life we lead while we are here.

I used to be a fitness fanatic, I also used to smoke, I know how it affected me personally in terms of breathlessness.

You only have to look in any hospital and zee the majority of older people and still younger ones shuffling around with ashen and wrinkled faces wheezing away. I am not going out like that.

Then of course there is the proven link between smoking and cot death. Although this may be ciggarettes.

And finally, IT STINKS!!!

(Nothing worse than an ex smoker! Its only because I care x)

MarkI agree wholeheartedly with you , it is very bad for you too smoke . But (there's always a but ) I'm not going to stop you if you want too smoke . All you have to do (as you point out ) go to any hospital and watch the smokers as they puff away along wth there oxigen mask/pipes , next to them . Staff are not allowed to smoke on the hospital grounds , that's why they go off site to smoke lol . Known diseases with smoking , Asthma , COPD , Bronchitis, Cancer , Death . So if you want my opinion on this , NO SMOKING KILLS YOU earlier than not . But hey we all die .

[CeltMan]

Regarding cigarettes, I happen to have a Strong allergic reaction to cigarette smoke.

And I have never smoked cigarettes.

A brother died from lung cancer a few years back.

He was a heavy smoker, and used to roll his own in at least the last 10 years of his life.
He had started smoking at about age 16, and died aged 55.

However, I admit to both liking the odd cigar, and Not having an aversion/allergic reaction to the smoke.
Last one I had was about a year ago, tend to limit to times of celebration etc.

Also, I admit that the stink in the room next day takes some shifting.

So there must(as has already been stated here) be a Big difference between what is in cigarettes and what is in a cigar.(in terms of purity, chemicals added etc)

[conk]

When you all realise non , not one of us lives forever you'll undstand nothing , and I mean nothing we do is WRONG . How can it be ? We all end the same way . You drink , you die . You do drugs , you die . You live long , you die . you live short , you die . Bit of a patern here don't you think ?this logic always rings hollow to me. Sure we all die, but we don't all die coughing and choking, or gasping for air, or suffering in pain. We don't all spend the last 10 years of our lives in misery, so why inflict unnecessary damage to the physical body. It's a dishonor to your spiritual body.

But each has his own path and yours is respected.

[Arrowwind]

this logic always rings hollow to me. Sure we all die, but we don't all die coughing and choking, or gasping for air, or suffering in pain. We don't all spend the last 10 years of our lives in misery, so why inflict unnecessary damage to the physical body. It's a dishonor to your spiritual body.

But each has his own path and yours is respected.

"in my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you."

I'm sure someone has put in a smoking room by now .;)

[pugwash84]

After working in a nursing home and cleaning out the gunk from the oxygen masks and pulling the thick slime out of their throat that they sometimes choke on, I'm glad I quit. xxx I respect everyone's opinions on smoking and it is a personal choice, I just feel bad for the family's who have to see a loved one like that and I feel bad for the people trying to care for them and trying to fix the mess that cigs have done to their body xxx

[scanner]

When you all realise non , not one of us lives forever you'll undstand nothing , and I mean nothing we do is WRONG . How can it be ? We all end the same way . You drink , you die . You do drugs , you die . You live long , you die . you live short , you die . Bit of a patern here don't you think ?this logic always rings hollow to me. Sure we all die, but we don't all die coughing and choking, or gasping for air, or suffering in pain. We don't all spend the last 10 years of our lives in misery, so why inflict unnecessary damage to the physical body. It's a dishonor to your spiritual body.

But each has his own path and yours is respected.Not hollow at all , it's a statment of fact . We all die , but see my above post . How we die is a whole different post .

[One]

As I recall, the guy who wrote Sugar Blues believed that flue cured Virginia tobacco (or tobacco that was not naturally dried) was far more dangerous. He reckoned that it was the starch found in virginia tobacco that killed and that was why the death rate from smoking was a lot less in the French (who smoke darker more natural tobacco) than everywhere else. I have just found 1 or 2 links about it. However I think it is better to assume that it is all unsafe. Comes down to sugar again.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1734&dat=19711203&id=1OgbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wlEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3111,2740771

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.2910090325/abstract

http://exacteditions.theecologist.org/exact/browse/307/308/6404/3/26

[Turcurulin]

http://cdn.ghosttheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/crop_circles_alien.jpg

[DNA]

I roll organic cigarettes. American spirit. I've been smoking for about a year. I
I'm not addicted. Besides chemicals most tobacco is gmo. Most tobacco is cured withsugar as well

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Well since this thread has resurfaced I'll add that I have helped at least 30 plus people quit smoking and go for a classy alternative. Now please don't rush into the electric cig as they are advertising as they are just imitations of real cigs and they lack nicotine so you'll just end up smoking again. I'm talking about the ones in the shops. Throw away ones.

I posted earlier in this thread that I am using a GGTS. It's a classy little device and I have totally stopped smoking analogs.

Basically I can smoke anywhere and get a good throat hit and get my nicotine fix without all the toxic crap they shove into analogs. This is taking time to kick in with many people so I did a bit of digging and found that not only are the analog companies involved in shutting down liquid nicotine but also the Cancer research programs. Wow !!

Anyway, heres some information on it. This site is the best I could find. I haven't met anyone yet.. that once they try my gadget hasn't pressed me for information on how to obtain a good e-cig. I can't empathize more how stupidly easy it is to quit and save money and turn the system around by doing this. You can buy the perfect liquid of your choice online or become your own cook and DIY your own taste.

Anyway it's tough until you see a good device and try it. It just gets me riled up because you all grow your own veggies and stuff, even make your own shampoos ect ect .. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that the analog is simply a design. YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN !!!

The E-Cigarette Forum is the world's largest and most popular electronic cigarette website, with 250,000 pages and more than 100,000 posts on the forum each month. There are more e-cigarette reviews and e-cigarette tutorials here than anywhere else.

ECF is independent of any vendor or product or group. It is a resource for information on e-cigarettes, the global community, health and legal matters. The site is divided into two parts - the Forum and the InfoZone.

What is an e-cigarette ?

An electronic cigarette is a rechargeable battery powered personal vaporizer (PV) or inhaler, often in the form of a cigarette, and can contain either flavored refill liquid with or without nicotine. The nicotine strength can also be varied according to the user's requirement. The refill is usually called e-liquid. High-power models are also available that do not resemble an ordinary cigarette but instead look like a thick tube or a small box with a mouthpiece attached.

Ecigarettes are a modern way to replace smoking and obtain nicotine - an alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes, desirable since they are likely to be several orders of magnitude less harmful. They can also be used without nicotine. The refill liquids contain about half a dozen ingredients that are all licensed for human consumption and considered acceptably safe, as against the 5,300 discovered so far in cigarette smoke of which many are known to be toxic and/or carcinogenic.

How do e-cigarettes work ?

All ecigarettes have a battery and a head unit. Rechargeable batteries are used, and the head (the end fittings at the mouthpiece end) consists of an atomizer coil which is heated by the battery, and a cartridge containing refill liquid. In some models the last two components are combined in a 'cartomizer'. When the switch is pressed, or in the case of auto models, when air is pulled through, the heating element vaporizes the liquid and produces a mist. You draw or pull air through it just like a tobacco cigarette. The water-based vapor contains flavoring, and nicotine if desired. No combustion is involved and nothing is lit - all that happens is a liquid is heated and vaporized. It's not smoking, but looks and feels like it.

Why use an e-cigarette ?

The main reason is consumer choice, as an alternative to tobacco cigarettes. The idea is to obtain the nicotine in a cool mist with a few well-known ingredients that are all approved for human consumption, instead of inhaling the smoke from burning plant materials, since it is known that smoking tobacco cigarettes has many health issues and perhaps around a one-in-three chance of early death. There is little or no smell, no second-hand smoke, no smell of smoke on your clothes and hair, and no risk of harming anyone else.

Who can use an e-cigarette ?

Electronic cigarettes are used by smokers over 18 who are looking for a better alternative. No one else should use one.
Can I use one anywhere ?
Definitely not - local regions such as cities can introduce byelaws that prohibit their use in public indoor areas. Anyone can allow or prohibit anything in their own premises, and some building owners or transport authorities prohibit them.

Are ecigarettes healthier ?

No one can say, because there are no long-term clinical trials or any other research that could verify or disprove such a statement. The latest version was invented in 2003 (older models exist) and have only been widely used since 2006. This is one of those things on which you have to make your own decision. However, many people regard the decision to inhale a cool mist with half a dozen ingredients, none of which are known to be toxic or carcinogenic, or alternatively inhale a bonfire, as what is popularly termed a no-brainer - which is why ecigarettes are taking the world by storm.

Current medical opinion is that use of e-cigarettes is less harmful than smoking, and this has been accepted by some national authorities. Opinion varies on exactly how much less harmful, and until some long-term data is available, the honest answer is, "We don't know". Use of an ecig is likely to have whatever risks inhaling a flavored mist with microscopic levels of carcinogens or toxins has, which are theoretically minuscule compared to smoking. Current medical opinion is that responsible consumption of nicotine equates with caffeine (coffee), although the individual may need their doctor to evaluate the risk for them.

Isn't nicotine harmful ?

Nicotine is not the harmful ingredient in tobacco, it is the smoke that kills. The smoke and combustion artefacts cause lung cancer, heart disease and many other illnesses. There is absolutely no medical evidence anywhere that nicotine is more harmful than coffee (caffeine).

It also needs to be appreciated that everyone tests positive for nicotine as it is a normal part of the diet. This is so important that it should be repeated: everyone tests positive for nicotine. Unless no vegetables are eaten, everyone has it in the bloodstream, in very small amounts, since it is a common ingredient in vegetables. A related material, nicotinic acid, is a vitamin - Niacin or Vitamin B3 - so to say it is alien, toxic or universally harmful is obviously untrue.

Without the smoke, 'smoking' is likely to be far less harmful. Nicotine is best avoided by those who are pregnant or have heart disease. You may want to avoid it if you also do not take caffeine or alcohol by drinking coffee, tea, wine or beer. Like these substances, taking more of it should probably be avoided, in a perfect world. Some people however find their lives are dysfunctional without nicotine, and an electronic cigarette is probably as good a way as any to supply it.

Are ecigs hard to buy ? What about shipping ?

Ecigarettes can be bought online or perhaps in a local store or bar. They are shipped overnight by many suppliers (check shipping arrangements and costs before purchase). Postage is as per normal consumer products. Except for a very few countries, and you know the sort, international postage is usually no problem even where sales are prohibited.

What e-cigarette should I buy ? Where can I buy ecigarettes ?

Well, you've come to the right place - ECF has the largest electronic cigarette market in the world, right here, with 80 featured vendors and hundreds of registered vendors, all of whom we carefully check for approved business practices and marketing standards. For your first model and where to get it, go to our Start Here page. Then check out the forum to find out more about the most important consumer product to hit the world since sliced bread!

If you have read this far then .. heres the link to the site.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/index.php

Also some great reviews of the best devices.

http://www.e-cig-reviews.com/

Ski-

[Flash]

I do a lot with my intention as does a friend ...

Her view is that if she doesn't believe smoking is bad for her, then it won't be... using NLP, Intention etc etc...

I think there are toxins in tabacco 'they' add in...

So what are other's views on this... I'd be interested to know...

Is one of us deluded... or both of us :)

Any excuses are good to avoid letting go of an addiction.... forget NLP etc. It won't clear the tar clogged cells. From an ex smoker.

Edited: i agree with 9eagle9 post below. However, because of chemicals, it won't clean up with intention alone, so my point remain.

[9eagle9]

Tobacco has been a cure for respiratory infections for thousands of years. That is why we smoke it. If I get a cold or lung congestion I smoke more.

The chemicals in tobacco cause cancer not the tobacco. You are talking about 3k to 5k chemicals. If you smoke formaldehyde for a long time something is bound to happen. They had to add those chemicals to MAKE tobacco cancerous to coverup their own assholery.

How tobacco is grown (adulterated) makes big difference. It should be cured in the sun....BUT...now the sun is our big enemy too...it became our enemy right around the time tobacco did....mid to late 60's.

People detox their livers, their bloodstreams, anything but their lungs. if you smoke a lot ---detox your lungs. Even too much of relatively innocuous thing can be too much. So you detox to get rid of the excess. What do you detox with, homepathically, plants that are similar to tobacco--like Mullein.

Tobacco is very grounding; that's why they don't want you smoking it. Grounded people don't buy into the horse**** they peddle. If it is that lethal it should be off the market. They criminalized cocaine, and marijuana but not tobacco? Why?

My favorite means of initiating an excorcism is to blow organic tobacco smoke over the host. A lot of non smokers are just assholes and they certainly stay away from me....lol.

Archonic energies HATE pure tobacco. They will stay away from you as much as if you were smoking sweet grass or mullein.

Conversely parasitical energies very much like adulterated ptb tobacco, that's one of their babies.

Tobacco and the sun (which is , shockingly,just recently lethal and hazardous to your health after we've lived under it for thousands of years) is bad for your health only because the government wants to hide how they dicked around so irresponsibly with atomic energy back in the 40's. The cure for the 'sun' is cancerous. Sunscreen is cancerous. Radiation made by man can be roughly defined as fake sunlight. If you know what I mean and not everyone will know what I mean.

Lack of melatonin through genetically dicking around with things that shouldn't have been dicked with...makes the sun harmful. they get burned. It is not natural for people to be burned by the sun anymore than it is natural to be allergic to trees or pollen. Melatonin is also one of those things responsible for 3rd eye expression. We seeing a pattern emerge here?


Wholistically speaking 90 percent of lung cancers are not cancers. Most of them are white blood cell plaques. You can live the rest of your life with a plaque on your lungs. Someone doesn't' die of white cell plaques anymore than they die of warts...But they are treated as cancer. . How would you know?. My grandmother had 'lung ' cancer. We didn't tell her that because she was so old that there was no point in traumatizing her or forcing chemo on her. She didn't want to be treated for anything, she hated doctors. She lived for another 12 years with her fast growing lung cancer, and died of natural causes unrelated to cancer at all. Blissfully unaware that she had cancer.

Cancer of any kind is a relatively rare diseases and it always starts in the mind.


My step-grandmother started smoking at age five! She lived to be 97. She died of old age after smoking for 92 years. It was news to her that tobacco was bad for her. She didn't want a microwave in her house but she thought nothign of smoking two packs of unfiltered Winstons a day.


The treatments for lung cancer kill people.

You can NOT cure someone by compromising their immune system.

The treatments for sun related skin 'cancer' are lethal. I've had skin cancer for at least 10 years. When it was diagnosed I had a 40/60 chance, I needed surgery, I needed radiation, and I still have skin 'cancer'. It's a strangely ugly little heart shaped spot on my shoulder. The most damage it does is that its just ugly. But it reminds me that if believe something will kill you....it will.

I put another sun plant on it--golden seal and that's was that.

Do I think the sun gave me skin cancer. No. In my 30's I fell for the 'sun is bad for you bull****" and used sunscreen a few times. That's when I got it. It has carcinogens in it.

You shouldn't screen out the sun. Not even sun glasses should be worn, save for if the glare makes it hard to drive.

Tobacco is supposed cured IN the sun. Tobacco is a fire plant. A sun plant. The sun is the sun. I am miserable and depressed and sick when I am without sunlight.

Why are they attempting to dissuade us from the sun or anything related to it. It's essential to our all levels of our well being but now the 'sun is our enemy!"
It's going to go supernova early next year and kill us all! The sun is in a symbiotic relationship with us..its not going to kill us.

It's not, really. If anyone hasn't noticed the sunlight this year is quite different from other years.

And tobacco is not what they told you it was.



My family has been growing tobacco since before I was born....when the Surgeon General (and what does the military have to do with Surgery? quite a lot actually...)
claimed tobacco was bad for you in the 60's it was news to them.

http://organic-smoke.com/

It's not awful hard to find organic tobacco.

[astrid]

Some thoughts.
I can only speak for myself, and I'm not even a smoker.
But i can smell a commercial cigarette from a house next door with all the windows and doors shut,
and it still makes me feel ill. So i was one of those lucky people that could never smoke to begin with,
so never had to try and give it up.

When i saw the excellent movie The Insider,
(1999 film directed by Michael Mann based on the true story of a 60 Minutes segment about tobacco industry whistleblower Jeffrey Wigand)
and that scene where Jeffery Wigand testifies that cigarettes were designed to be a drug of dependency, i thought that right there,
that should be enough to get people to quit, as they are being used big time by the tobacco industry.
Which should be re- named to the " slow poisoning device industry" .

And what you said, MW was spot on, first the Tobacco Industry takes your money, then its Big Pharma
so my comment to smokers is to at least be honest with yourself as to what is actually going on here.

Tobacco on its own is a sacred and ceremonial plant that was never designed to be used every day, (in terms of the original indigenous use).
But with anything, balance is key. Like White Sage It's good in the pure sense for clearing energies, and maybe why in the first place it
was picked up in the west, ( as people felt better after smoking it), maybe why also it was soon taken over by the Govs and bastardised, so it failed to work. And worse
worked to make us attract lower energies, as all that other junk does, and they know this... just another way of looking at it, in the metaphysical sense..

I have also heard from the indigenous perspective, through an elder, that the plant spirit itself was not impressed to be abused and thus
latched on and created addiction. Take it or leave it, but it is generally accepted that sacred plants are just that, sacred, and should be
treated with respect, and in return they will respect you.

The thing that gets up my nose about smokers, (pun intended) , is they way they constantly justify thier reasons for doing it, and deny that
they can't stop and are addicted to it. And yes quitting can make you ill for a time as your body has to detox, but it will at least give you
some years of clean air, and reclaim your sovereign right over your own body, rather than having to be driven by a chemical, psychological, and emotional habit.
I'm not saying its easy, but surely being free is one big reason to commit to the task.

It's also commonly used as form of self medication, to increase dopamine. I have know a stack of people that quit smoking only to find out that they had an
underlying condition that it was masking. In which case they could then get about working through the root case of why they began in the first place.
Same goes for alcohol here, it's often a form of self medication, the secondary rather then the primary issue.


Maybe the thread title should be a bit clearer, smoking what??
Smoking pure tobacco, organic, and used with respect, is a very different question
to putting in your body god knows what.

6wwJp8VDGzE

[One]

Not had time to read the read the rest of the thread, however the author of Sugar Blues stated that flue dried or Virginia tobacco was much worse for you because of the starch left in such tobacco due to the drying process. The death rate in France the author stated was much lower because they did not smoke Virginia tobacco generally. Naturally dried tobacco was was much better for you according to the author.

Apologies, just noticed that I had already stated the above a while back on this post and had forgotten I had.

[SKAWF]

i saw recently, a vid, which suggested that doctors dont really know why a human body should die.
the best reason they could find..... was toxic overload.
years of putting crap into our bodies.
i dont know how true that is though, but it makes sense to me.

i spose each body has its own limits and tolerances...
and not everything affects every body the same way.
as has been said before... the body does clean itself,
the key is not to take in more than than the system can remove.

sometimes.... minute quantities of deadly toxins can actually be good for us.

regarding the question of the thread........

i wont say that its bad for us. that seems relative to me.
there are so many things out there, that are much more harmful,
yet they carry no warnings.

like.... a gm seed, planted in ground that has chemical fertilizer in it.
treated with pesticide....
or a cow, given hormones, fed with ****e etc.
there's not much out there that hasnt been f***ed about with in some way.

i would say that smoking isnt good for us if we do it too much.
otherwise its no more risky than a lot of other things which we consider safe.

but from experience..... i have observed.....

if something is REALLY bad for us, they dont say much about it
but they will overstate the dangers of things that pose no great risk.

lol.... the same people who say that smoking, or playing conkers in the school playground, is dangerous,
lie to us to justify dropping bombs on men women and children all over the world.

[David Trd1]

It's not, really. If anyone hasn't noticed the sunlight this year is quite different from other years.

.

off topic i know but that is something i have been noticing for quite sometime now....

Its positive i think.

peace.

[grannyfranny100]

Wow, a couple of great posts. I am currently dealing with the physical pain of packing, moving and unpacking pre back surgery while cutting back on cigs from 40 to 8 per day. I just can't financially afford this stinking addiction.

Juggling all that in my life is a bitch. Excuse me while I go smoke in my car before finishing this. Ahhhh. Four puffs and I feel more grounded. Ain't much fun quitting at 68 years old. Back in my day, it was acceptable to smoke in a tense board room meeting and didn't detract from one's power like cracking a few hard boiled eggs to handle hypoglycemia would have been.

Nowadays, I must enduring the "loving" concern and pressure of family and two generations indoctrinated on the evils of smoking. I am just so sick of these mind controlled nonsmokers and their "holier than thou" attitudes. TPTB sure picked a good target with their current divide and conquer campaign. Generally smokers suck down their frustration with smoke so the anti smoking smug ones have a target for all their frustration on topics which are much more complex. It's much easier for them to just see smoke and start with the anti smoking coughs, sneers and attacks while TPTB proceed with their nasty plans that these folks ignore.

I am just sick of the smug ones who are so self assured that they know how to live their lives correctly and thus feel they know how everyone should live their lives. They never push themselves to their limits, fail and move on in new directions to learn their next lessons. Instead, they settle for some pretty boring robot-like existences and when they get too bored, they gather together to get a friend or relative to a detox treatment at a Betty Ford type place and pat themselves on the back for their noble gesture. And that is about as deep as they go in a very troubled world.

Thank you for some posts that are not full of the usual crapola. After my surgery, I expect to be able to walk barefoot in the grass or sand without a walker and get on with the smoke free new chapter in my life where I can focus on what concerns me. I will be free of the smug arrogant ones and surround myself with people who are less judgmental as is shown in some of these posts. Thank you for being who you are.

[9eagle9]

It's find it more reassuring than alarming myself. I find it more apparent these this year than last year because I'm outside for the better part of the day but there was a rather abrupt cut off point where it became more noticeable in 2010. Part of this I'm sure is my locality, there has been no chemtrailing around here at all lately which accounts for much of it. . I'm quite dark skinned and even more so this year, but at the same time I do periodically get some over exposure and sun burn on my cheeks and tops of my shoulders. Not this year. My skin will feel very hot from absorbing so much sunlight for such long periods of time, but not a trace of sunburn. My daughter has fair-er skin but spends the same amount of time as me outside without the burns she used to get in the past.

I think its good stuff though.







It's not, really. If anyone hasn't noticed the sunlight this year is quite different from other years.

.

off topic i know but that is something i have been noticing for quite sometime now....

Its positive i think.

peace.

[TargeT]

It's find it more reassuring than alarming myself. I find it more apparent these this year than last year because I'm outside for the better part of the day but there was a rather abrupt cut off point where it became more noticeable in 2010. Part of this I'm sure is my locality, there has been no chemtrailing around here at all lately which accounts for much of it. . I'm quite dark skinned and even more so this year, but at the same time I do periodically get some over exposure and sun burn on my cheeks and tops of my shoulders. Not this year. My skin will feel very hot from absorbing so much sunlight for such long periods of time, but not a trace of sunburn. My daughter has fair-er skin but spends the same amount of time as me outside without the burns she used to get in the past.

I think its good stuff though.







It's not, really. If anyone hasn't noticed the sunlight this year is quite different from other years.

.

off topic i know but that is something i have been noticing for quite sometime now....

Its positive i think.

peace.

I've noticed the same thing, though through different circumstances.

I went golfing yesterday, (I call it walking and drinking...) 5.5 hours in the Alaskan sun (supposedly thinner atmosphere and all that....) after not being in the sun for a LONG time (this summer (like the last few) has been very over cast, not many sunny days) and I didn't even feel a TWING of too much sun, I expected to be burnt.. but I wasn't at all, conversely my friend (whom I would label the most un"awake" (and i HATE the term "awake" but it serves its purpose here) individual I know was extremely sunburnt after a day of driving around with the top off his jeep)

I don't know what it means (hell I don't know much really) but this interested me, I should have been burnt at least a little bit... not sure if it's significant or not but it stuck in my mind.

and while that is completely off topic, I'm not a smoker (aside from the occasional alcohol driven smoke) I don't feel its bad, though everything in moderation right? how many "smokers" are moderate?

[WanderingRogue]

Is smoking bad for you? Hmmmm....interesting question. I suppose one could say yes IF one could definitively say that smoking CAUSES harmful effects to the body. For example, if I stick my hand in boiling water, I will get burned regardless of my intent. This is true for every human on this planet as far as I'm aware. But smoking does not cause uniform effects to everyone who smokes. A person can be a light smoker and get lung or throat cancer or be a heavy smoker and never have any health issues. So to say that smoking causes cancer or disease is kind of silly. I don't think that necessarily means that it's good for you either. Smoking could contribute to existing issues making them worse? Or maybe people just overdo it like most substances we put in our bodies which leads to problems. As mentioned by others, to much of anything can be harmful. I know that for me smoking has been an on again off again thing. I have noticed that my desire to smoke is strongly linked to my mental and spiritual state. When I'm grounded and calm and feeling connected to the universe, I won't smoke for years at a time. But when I've allowed my life to become unbalanced, I feel the desire to take up the habit again. I don't know if it's the smoking that helps me relax, or my thinking that helps, but either way it does. Does this make it good? Not sure...but it does seem like its easier for me to get back to a better frame of mind faster when I'm relaxed.

[modwiz]

Smoking bad for you? Nah. Besides not taking smoking breaks is for suckers. Who can resist the erotic allure of cigarette smoke in someone's hair or the soothing phlegmatic bark of chronic bronchitis? And, with all of the tax on cigarettes, we are certainly helping America be great with our revenue. Our military costs a lot of money and smoking helps fund the war of terror. Keeping us safe to smoke.

I might consider taking up smoking if I could afford it. I'll just have to content myself with nice clothes and guitars instead.

Woe is me.

[greybeard]

What an up lighting discussion.
I smoke and I get more fresh air than most---im forbidden to smoke in the house or within a hundred yards of It.
My wife can smell smoke at 100 paces.
With me its a balance--- smoking gets me out in all weather--- adds something to my singing voice----BUTT. I cant hold the notes as long.
I dont like the smell of smoke and even though I rarely smoke in the house no amount of incense get rid of it-- my wife's incensed and claims every illness she suffers is down to second hand smoke. I pay for that--smiling. She gets it for free.
I only smoke pure tobacco not chemical loaded ones.
I have no doubt that to varying degrees smoking is less than healthy and very expensive now.
I you are prone to cancer or other lung problems it could just tip the balance the wrong way.
I take refuge in that all my forefather lived into their 90s. Some smoked and a few heavy drinkers.
Heredity plays a large part.

I may stop yet again-- I managed 15 years at one point.

Regards Chris

[modwiz]

What an up lighting discussion.
I smoke and I get more fresh air than most---im forbidden to smoke in the house or within a hundred yards of It.
My wife can smell smoke at 100 paces.
With me its a balance--- smoking gets me out in all weather--- adds something to my singing voice----BUTT. I cant hold the notes as long.
I dont like the smell of smoke and even though I rarely smoke in the house no amount of incense get rid of it-- my wife's incensed and claims every illness she suffers is down to second hand smoke. I pay for that--smiling. She gets it for free.
I only smoke pure tobacco not chemical loaded ones.
I have no doubt that to varying degrees smoking is less than healthy and very expensive now.
I you are prone to cancer or other lung problems it could just tip the balance the wrong way.
I take refuge in that all my forefather lived into their 90s. Some smoked and a few heavy drinkers.
Heredity plays a large part.

I may stop yet again-- I managed 15 years at one point.

Regards Chris

As a non-smoker, I find the natural, untreated tobacco to be tolerable and not irritant. The commercial cigarettes are almost as bad as burning plastic.

Lastly, quantity of tar ingested plays a huge part in health impact. Very light smoking, 4-5 cigs a day is absorbable and does not create bronchitis.

Smoking natural tobacco would go a long way in peace making, if some non-smokers stop being hysterical about things. Commercial cigarettes are intolerable toxic emitters and deserve every bit of protest they receive, IMO.

[David Trd1]

It's find it more reassuring than alarming myself. I find it more apparent these this year than last year because I'm outside for the better part of the day but there was a rather abrupt cut off point where it became more noticeable in 2010. Part of this I'm sure is my locality, there has been no chemtrailing around here at all lately which accounts for much of it. . I'm quite dark skinned and even more so this year, but at the same time I do periodically get some over exposure and sun burn on my cheeks and tops of my shoulders. Not this year. My skin will feel very hot from absorbing so much sunlight for such long periods of time, but not a trace of sunburn. My daughter has fair-er skin but spends the same amount of time as me outside without the burns she used to get in the past.

I think its good stuff though.







It's not, really. If anyone hasn't noticed the sunlight this year is quite different from other years.

.

off topic i know but that is something i have been noticing for quite sometime now....

Its positive i think.

peace.

I've noticed the same thing, though through different circumstances.

I went golfing yesterday, (I call it walking and drinking...) 5.5 hours in the Alaskan sun (supposedly thinner atmosphere and all that....) after not being in the sun for a LONG time (this summer (like the last few) has been very over cast, not many sunny days) and I didn't even feel a TWING of too much sun, I expected to be burnt.. but I wasn't at all, conversely my friend (whom I would label the most un"awake" (and i HATE the term "awake" but it serves its purpose here) individual I know was extremely sunburnt after a day of driving around with the top off his jeep)

I don't know what it means (hell I don't know much really) but this interested me, I should have been burnt at least a little bit... not sure if it's significant or not but it stuck in my mind.

and while that is completely off topic, I'm not a smoker (aside from the occasional alcohol driven smoke) I don't feel its bad, though everything in moderation right? how many "smokers" are moderate?

A thread from a while back with some similar stories,could be of interest.....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?39033-Can-you-see-it----

Peace.

[Nickolai]

Hi,

A friend of mine in her 50s smokes a lot. Once she visited a doctor whom she has known for years for some reason.
Just before leaving, she out of curiosity asked the doctor if he would advised her to quit smoking. She told him that she had smoked for nearly 30 years.
The doctor replied that in no way she quit for otherwise she would meet serious health problems.

Another friend of mine was a heavy smoker as well. While being in hospital because of her ulcers operation she had to quit smoking 'cos she could not walk after the surgery.
I can tell you that no matter how oprimistic she tries to sound I admit she looks awful. After she quit and now. At first me and my friends thought that the way she looked was because of the toxins that started to get out of her body. Months have passed she looks still awful:
Bad skin,
Lots of wrinkles (never had them so obvious),
She gained her weight
Became very emotional

I always tell her when she tries to convince me that she is a very bad commercial...)))

Nickolai

[ljwheat]

Thread: (Is smoking bad for You?) <--answer in question or validate my bad

Subtract the “Is” = (smoking bad for you?)

Subtract Me “you” (smoking bad for?)

Subtract the “?” (smoking bad for)

Subtract the “for” (smoking bad)

Where in Nature dose this (smoking bad) take place in any other animal on this planet and why?

Dose it make you healthy in anyway?

Dose it add to your over all beauty in anyway?

What is it taking the place of, while you should be doing somthing else instead of lighting up?

What dose it do to the value of your car?

Or your cloths?

Complection?

Personality?

The people you could be hanging out with?

What creature in nature dose this (smoking bad)?

John xoxo

[donk]

I haven't read all four pages yet, but the first didn't seem to address this issue:

Toxic or not, intention or not, I defy any smoker (10-30 corporate made a day) to claim you are not a slave to a habit. It doesn't matter if it makes us less tasty to vampires or if the chems actually help in mind control, there is no 3d physical benefit whatsoever, just the mental/emotional/comfort level pleasure.

And if you go too long without one, what happens? You need sh!tloads more intention for it to be ok not to have one, than any of these questionable examples of somehow rationalizing that intention can prevent the long term effects of ingesting burning poison.

I am a slave. I hate that i love to smoke. & that the consequences of withdrawal at this point are not worth the struggle with the grip addiction has on me. I hope soon I will hate it like I learned to hate alcohol, addiction of which caused enough problems that it became worth the battle.

For me, I learned I cannot manage an addiction without hating the source of it. I find rationalizing something as harmful and powerfully addictive as cigs sad--unless your a rep for Phillip Morris or glaxosmithcline or the other death industries.

[Daughter of Time]

My grandfather smoked for 65 years. He never even coughed. He died a very quick death. Apparently his kidneys quit and he was gone within 2 days but he was totally healthy right up until then. He was 84 and went shopping, took long walks, socialized, and was totally lucid until hours before he passed.

I used to know a woman who had been chain smoking since she was 14. In her mid eighties she was still chain smoking - and working!!! However, her husband whom she'd met when she and he were both 14, had also chain smoked like her, but he died of lung cancer in his early 60s. The'd always smoked the same brand of cigarettes. When the switched brands, they switched together, and these were store bought cigarettes. They'd always eaten the same food. They did everything the same. He developed a cough shortly before he was diagnosed with cancer and died soon afterwards. She was in her mid 80 when I last saw her, still chain smoking, still working, and had never developed a cough.

I have a dear friend in his 50s who chain smokes but rolls his own. He seems to be healthy but coughs a lot.

I remember people from my childhood who chain smoked and lived to a ripe old age and never got cancer.

Yet my uncle who was a light smoker (max. 5 cigs per day) died of lung cancer at an early age and he had never worked with toxins nor was ever exposed to radiation other than the type of radiation we are all exposed to every day.

The picture is not black and white.

I think it's all about metabolism. If your system is like mine, meaning, I don't perspire very much, then the toxins will stay in your body and you have to be careful about your substance intake. If your system cleans itself out out properly, especially through the skin, then it probably releases most of the toxins it takes in.

The same goes for drinkers. Some people can drink excessive amounts of alcohol and still appear sober and carry a sane conversation.

Some people become total idiots after 1 drink.

Food: some people can eat excessive amounts of food and remain thin.
Others eat very small amounts and are somewhat overweight.

METABOLISM!

Of course, there are spiritual components to all this which I won't get into here. But as far as the physical goes, I think it's all about metabolism, how the body processes toxins, how many other types of pathogens the body is exposed to, how well your glands are working, how many other stressors you have in your life, etc., etc., etc.,

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

[donk]

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

I think this a dangerous perspective. Instead of just looking at the differences, you need to come at it from similarities as well.

I've seen heroin addicts say it was harder to give up cigs. I've never known anyone to be able "quit" without some struggle. There may be exceptions, but in this case there is a "rule": the addictive properties of cigs generally effect free will beyond most individuals ability to control their "need" for it. It is a form of slavery.

[Finefeather]

I saw an article on TV once, a while back, in South Africa, where they determined that if you are cooking meat over charcoal, you inhale more carcinogens in one cook-up as you would in 1 year of average smoking.

[Daughter of Time]

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

I think this a dangerous perspective. Instead of just looking at the differences, you need to come at it from similarities as well.

I've seen heroin addicts say it was harder to give up cigs. I've never known anyone to be able "quit" without some struggle. There may be exceptions, but in this case there is a "rule": the addictive properties of cigs generally effect free will beyond most individuals ability to control their "need" for it. It is a form of slavery.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not an advocate of smoking. In general, I agree that smoking is a very bad habit. But it does beg the question as to why some people smoke and never get sick while others who have never smoked die of lung cancer.

[donk]

So the thread is to rationalize or quantify the relative harmfulness of smoking?

I believe in the benefits I have been told that come from cooking food. If I had a convincing body of info showing me how it was harmful, addictive, and there were no benefits, I would consider that, rather than trying to find things to justify it cuz it is "worse than eating rotting flesh".

If I did not want to stop cooking food over fire because I liked it & felt bad when people showed me how bad it was for me, I would shove unrelated examples of how much better it is than other bar habits so I could feel justified in continuing to do it.

[donk]

DoT--I love and agree with every point you made in your post. I cherry picked that line as it is perfect in how it applies to a lot of the bad ideas (which I do not feel you have) on this thread.

In other words, I used your words completely out of context as I liked the way I could twist them for my argument ;)

...I totally smell what you're cooking and liked your post

[donk]

Especially that the issue is not black & white. I just feel there is.black/whiteness to it:

Most people able to purchase cigs are provided the knowledge that cigs are incredibly addictive and have more obvious harmful effects than positive (if any exist).

I have seen one example of positive effects of smoking, and that was when my ex bent way down to get a lighter off the floor of the car the second I flipped it onto the spot where her head would have been if she just sat there.

You could argue that smoking saved her life, but i would still not recommend starting or rationalize continuing to anyone.

[donk]

Maybe we should start a thread: "are taking opiates (for non-medical reasons) bad for you?"

It's not black and white, it's all about individuals, but at the end of the day, it's just a crazy thing to try to rationalize.

I've never known a conscious choice to smoke cigs have more positive consequences than negative. Can't we generalize in this case and conclude to not do so is rationalizing (cherry-picking exceptions)?

Where is the line in being able to condemn an addictive harmful habit?

[9eagle9]

Hating smoking makes it harder to quit. A lot of people have confessed to switching to organic tobacco and then finding it easier to stop the smoke because commercial tobacco has additional addictive chemicals in it. Commercial cigarettes are designed to addict you, organic ones are not. Commercial cigarettes are designed to make you sick.

Eating arena dust day in and day out makes me cough more.

The presence of hate in breaking any addiction is counter productive. People who hate that they constantly over eat are the ones who struggle the most with their weight.

After smoking organic for a long time and then trying a commerical cigarette is the kicker, I am coughing for at least 24 hours afterwards. There is a lot of programming in tobacco smoking, and who to say some of those chemicals in commercially grown tobacco aren't the triggers for diseases that have been introduce via programming. If that's the case its not going to take much smoke to trigger a disease program. Those who don't have that programming may never have a thing wrong with them because there is no program to trigger.



I haven't read all four pages yet, but the first didn't seem to address this issue:

Toxic or not, intention or not, I defy any smoker (10-30 corporate made a day) to claim you are not a slave to a habit. It doesn't matter if it makes us less tasty to vampires or if the chems actually help in mind control, there is no 3d physical benefit whatsoever, just the mental/emotional/comfort level pleasure.

And if you go too long without one, what happens? You need sh!tloads more intention for it to be ok not to have one, than any of these questionable examples of somehow rationalizing that intention can prevent the long term effects of ingesting burning poison.

I am a slave. I hate that i love to smoke. & that the consequences of withdrawal at this point are not worth the struggle with the grip addiction has on me. I hope soon I will hate it like I learned to hate alcohol, addiction of which caused enough problems that it became worth the battle.

For me, I learned I cannot manage an addiction without hating the source of it. I find rationalizing something as harmful and powerfully addictive as cigs sad--unless your a rep for Phillip Morris or glaxosmithcline or the other death industries.

[Daughter of Time]

Maybe we should start a thread: "are taking opiates (for non-medical reasons) bad for you?"

It's not black and white, it's all about individuals, but at the end of the day, it's just a crazy thing to try to rationalize.

I've never known a conscious choice to smoke cigs have more positive consequences than negative. Can't we generalize in this case and conclude to not do so is rationalizing (cherry-picking exceptions)?

Where is the line in being able to condemn an addictive harmful habit?

Well, since this thread was open to discussion, as is every thread, then I shared what i know from the experiences of people I know and have known. I was not voicing an opinion but merely observation. I know you got that.

I never said smoking was not bad for you. My post was not meant to defend smoking. I'm just puzzled by how some people do not take care of themselves and they're OK. I know a woman who has breast cancer and her health is very precarious right now. She has never smoked, drinks only occasionally and only organic wine, she is vegan, lives outside the polluted city, drinks only one cup of organic coffee in the morning, eats only organic foods, yet she has breast cancer! So...that is puzzling!

That's why I believe that there are many more factors involved in why some people get sick while others do not. Addictive, harmful habits should never be defended, but I think it's OK to discuss them and how they affect some people differently than they affect others.

i think it would be rather humorous to start a thread about whether opiates are bad for you. Only an opiate addict would defend that habit.

There could be other threads discussing whether hatred is bad for you, or whether violence is bad for you, or whether revenge is bad for you. I'm being fascetious, of course, because I think these things are definitely black and white. While coffee, for instance, which is also highly addictive, is bad for some people but good for others.

It was not my intention to play devil's advocate but merely to present my observations.

I feel the purpose of a thread is to present different opinions and different angles. I don't think anyone will ever make the statement that smoking is good for you.

[danceblackcatdance]

i watched my super strong stepfather die inside of 6 months of being hospitalised / diagnosed with lung cancer aged 57, smoking was bad for him.. he could have had it for longer though of course..

i've quit a few times, the longest for 7 years... was trickier this time as my gf smokes and am still asking her to stop..

addictions are generally 'not good' right...

[donk]

"Hating smoking" was bad choice of words, I apologize, it is a strong one that requires (more) qualification (I am struggling scrolling through on my phone, I hope I chose "I" instead of "you" in orginal statement:

I (me, not anyone else) need to no longer love or even be ok with being addicted to something, in order for me able to stop my addiction (aka make conscious choice against the will of my brain/body which craves the substance/behavior).

Second point, about this thread in particular, which as you clarify is about smoking and not addiction:

I have seen arguments about smoking not being as bad as other things (relative), even posed exceptions of how it can incedintally be helpful, seen how it is not as harmful to some people whether by accident or truly focused attention on it (so it is "not bad" for certain individuals, which seem to be exception), but only have seen one example of it actually being "not bad for you" (whether individually or generally):

we are not as tasty to negative ETs

Are there any others I missed?

[Ceedub]

I've made a few observations regarding this subject lately. I enjoy smoking organic tobacco. I smoke more than I should and it leaves my lungs slightly wet. As I learned more and more about how to care for my body and implemented certain techniques and supplements my lungs lost the slight wetness and became perfectly normal and dry as a healthy non smoker. I confirmed this observation when I became too lazy or self-loathing or whatever to implement the things I know are good for me and the slight wetness returned. Back on the regime and lungs are perfect. I'm not sure which particular thing I was doing was having the effect although turmeric is one of my favorite supplements and has been said through the ages to counter the effects of smoking.

Also I find that when my lungs become perfectly dry and normal either through raising my health or through extended periods of non-smoking I kind of miss that little bit of wetness. I start to get the feeling that my lungs become coated with fine dust and instead of having one or two good satisfying, cleansing coughs in a day I won't cough at all for long periods and then after a month or more I'll need to shift something more difficult out of my lungs. This is just an observation of some subtle physical states and I am not drawing any strong conclusions from it, I just submit it for consideration.

A couple of other notes... The programing around smoking is strong, strong, strong. In our culture it has become an axiomatic meme. My particular path towards Truth and Knowledge involves searching out these, sometimes hard to spot, memes and throwing them out completely so that I can rebuild them from scratch eliminating all corrupt sources. My health improved markedly as soon as I jetisoned this particular meme. As soon as I stopped accepting that tobacco was poison prima facia, and replaced it with the knowledge that this is a sacred plant in harmony with the natural Earth energies, my relationship with tobacco totally changed. My spirit is now friends with the spirit of tobacco. I commune with and honor that spirit every time I twist some up and smoke it.

I am proud to say that this year I have decided to grow my own tobacco for the first time. My little suburban home is graced with about twenty five absolutely gorgeous plants currently in full bloom. I am blessed. It is a beautiful sight.

Stilll though, I would be better off communing with the tobacco spirit closer to Modwiz's guidelines of four or five times a day rather than my current ten or fifteen.

Oh and lastly there is the cerimonial smoke break. I have always felt this a good thing that helps my work day roll along smoothly and bonds me with my co-workers, at least the smoking ones. Communication happens, tobacco is given and shared, it's the peace pipe thing and it is good. How do the non-smokers get by?

CW

[Connecting with Sauce]

What clean rolling tabacco would people recommend in the UK?

[9eagle9]

Well you can't Ceedub, non smokers are floopy ungrounded people that are off in some weird airy place and shouldn't be trusted.... :rolleyes:

actually the only non smokers I know that take issue with my smoking are on anti depressants, alcohol or some other form of self medication and they feel virtuous the same way my mother would remind everyone how she never touched alcohol--she was made of sturdier stuff--while gobbling handfuls of Valium. Literally be tossing a handful of pills whilst in full lecture mode.

My sister who wouldn't get her depression treated because it was weak but didn't mind that she was an evil roaring satanic bitch and made everyone miserable.

My eldest sister smoked and stayed away from just about everything. She doesn't even treat herself herbally save for her periodic marijuana habit.

Not that smoking makes one a Rhodes scholar, I know plenty of idiots who smoke....

Lungs represent intake and processing of emotions. We usually start smoking in our teens or early adult hood because we are not taught , nor encouraged, or know how to process emotions. So its a form of self medication like alcohol or dependency on certain prescription meds....

By the time we are able to process emotions, we have the habit. Which is emphasized by grabbing a smoke when one is stressed out. A means of coping with stress by grounding us.

Wet lung is an interesting term. I cough more when eating arena dust all day than i do when smoking ....the lungs are supposed to be moist to a certain extent, a monthly lung detox helps keep the mucous in balance.

[StarDust]

Yes and No…. My mom smoked for 50 years and quit a decade ago. She now suffers from chronic shortness of breath. My grandmother smoked the majority of her life - from a very young age until 83 when she woke up one day and decided it was bad for her. She lived to the ripe old age of 102. I think the effect depends on the person and wether or not it is within one's life lesson to learn from the ill effects of any addiction. Not all people who smoke will get cancer and die. As for how it effects those around you (smell, health effects. etc.) that is a different story all together.

[Swan]

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

I think this a dangerous perspective. Instead of just looking at the differences, you need to come at it from similarities as well.

I've seen heroin addicts say it was harder to give up cigs. I've never known anyone to be able "quit" without some struggle. There may be exceptions, but in this case there is a "rule": the addictive properties of cigs generally effect free will beyond most individuals ability to control their "need" for it. It is a form of slavery.

I am the exception. Smoked from 19 to 23 and stopped without a struggle. Now I´ll smoke once or twice a year. No cravings.

Where I live smoking is vilified. Drinking yourself silly, and taking anti - depressants on the otherhand is fine. I find that strange.

The last time I smoked it was because I was feeling very sad and upset. My children were with me, and it was the first time they saw me smoke. I told them the truth: that smoking a cigarette helped me calm down.

I haven´t bothered looking for organic tobacco, since I smoke so rarely. But I would much rather my children smoke organic tobacco than drink or do drugs.

My scottish grandmother told me that her doctor when she was young used to say that smoking helped prevent many nervous breakdowns.

[Rantaak]

Matter is energy. This understanding is tantamount to ones liberation from the constraints of belief.

If you believe this is as dead as we'll ever be, what do you have left to fear? (The answer is: Nothing.)

I smoke organic tobacco though. For some of us, our physiology is wired such that we must remain as shamans in order to keep ourselves awake and alive. This is the premise of alchemy - an artificial (natural) catalyst can sometimes be ones salvation in a situation where the "natural" body has a stillborn neurology. You don't have to smoke it, of course. The shamans make nicotine tinctures all the time for various purposes. The smoke, however, has a cleansing and purifying property.

Tobacco is my medicine. It is also the kinkiest mistress. Even the man who is strongest of spirit still cannot break her tantric bonds.

[Menkaure]

Anyone that thinks smoking is not bad for them is just deluding themselves. Having said that... If you cross the street a drunk driver could smash you into a protein puddle. SSSssssooooooo........ Which direction do you send your attention??? No easy answers.

[Rantaak]

Anyone that thinks smoking is not bad for them is just deluding themselves. Having said that... If you cross the street a drunk driver could smash you into a protein puddle. SSSssssooooooo........ Which direction do you send your attention??? No easy answers.

Anyone who is still afraid of death is not very far along in their search for truth.