David Wilcock's False Predictions

[9eagle9]

(blinks)

IS there SOMEONE that David Wilcock is NOT a reincarnation of?


If David Wilcock is the reincarnation of RA and actually wrote the Law of One, then wouldn't he know what he's talking about since it is imbedded in his very DNA?

[9eagle9]

And I'm pretty sure RMorgan can convey to you an overt threat to have himself balanced by Carmody further upthread.

Did you miss that Paul?

People provide their own evidence.



I apparently missed the place where Carmody said he imposed his influence, without permission or proper motivation.

[another bob]

(blinks)

IS there SOMEONE that David Wilcock is NOT a reincarnation of?

How about Bukowski?

[christian]

All that Carmody said to Raf boils down to "I will not leave any one-sided comment of yours unanswered", i.e. he slams him with facts. This is an online forum where people talk, how else but through talking could it be possible to slam someone here? If there should be any rude personal insults at some point, just report it, now please drop this skirmish.

As for "false predictions", please take a step back:

Nostradamus allegedly said: "If I show you the worst, that man can do to himself, what will you do to avoid it?" In that sense, he played a role. Can you not see, that David Wilcock plays a role and simply approaches the situation from another direction, as in "If I show you the best, that man can do to himself, what will you do to make it real?"

[ThePythonicCow]

And I'm pretty sure RMorgan can convey to you an overt threat to have himself balanced by Carmody further upthread.

Did you miss that Paul?

Ah - that one - no we didn't miss it (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478&p=493300#post493300) as it turns out. Rather I didn't make the connection between that example and your comments above.

One of the problems with disrespecting others on this forum is that it tends to ricochet back and forth, sometimes even after the original volley has been addressed.

Easy folks, easy ...

[9eagle9]

Replaying the same old program is not the best that man can do.

Transcending the same old BS nudges us a bit further into that arena where one is able to fulfill human potential.

As demonstrated time and again Wilcocks is just providing more talk and more information.

As his many failed predictions emphasize, nothing is actualy happening. That is the entire point. To make sure nothing does.



All that Carmody said to Raf boils down to "I will not leave any one-sided comment of yours unanswered", i.e. he slams him with facts. This is an online forum where people talk, how else but through talking could it be possible to slam someone here? If there should be any rude personal insults at some point, just report it, now please drop this skirmish.

As for "false predictions", please take a step back:

Nostradamus allegedly said: "If I show you the worst, that man can do to himself, what will you do to avoid it?" In that sense, he played a role. Can you not see, that David Wilcock plays a role and simply approaches the situation from another direction, as in "If I show you the best, that man can do to himself, what will you do to make it real?"

[danceblackcatdance]

Think his main role is getting people to look for 'the door'. Quantum is basically chance if you like or in such a flux that our mind projections influence it. If DW is only doing that basic thing ie to get people to 'look again' well that is fine by me. Think he has an enthusiasm for it that IMO makes him over-reach from time to time but that is also fine. They say we'll know we have a very advanced computer when it itself has the ability to sow its own destruction.

Peace

K

Looking again, ace :)

Einstein said imagination is better than knowledge... and apparently dreaming the dream creates reality, so many would have people believe... If look for negative I find as such, so where should one focus...

Seems like a lot of sour grapes concerning DW, and if he's wrong so what...? At least he's getting people to 'think'; maybe not what some of you want people to think, but at least it is an outside alternative to the systems brainwashed information (that most agree is rotten) so why do you want to pull him down...

You don't have to like him but seems his heart is in the right place and he's doing something good, he's not spreading fear porn, if what he says gives people hope (false or otherwise) thats ok because sometimes people need hope to survive too...

Besides debating it endlessly on a web forum is not going to change his popularity so just deal with it :)

"What is now proved was once only imagined."

Dream away...

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Lets everyone calm down.

You know, I see this forum as a great place to debate delicate and complex subjects.

Despite the fact that I´ve received some personal attacks, a few very direct, others more subtle, I understand that the very nature of the subjects we deal with here, can make people very emotional.

So, I never take anything very seriously, after all, this is an internet forum, not real life.

It´s been a long time since I´ve participate in such an interesting thread like this one.

There are many intelligent points of views and arguments here; I thank everyone for that and I think this is very important.

I love to see people think for themselves, independently if they agree or disagree with my point of view.

Good dialectics is fascinating for itself.

Personally, what I´m trying to do, is to avoid that the alternative media becomes some sort of Muppets show, you know, one new character every week. I´m a bit tired about that.

I think everyone here knows what I think about David Wilcock and I would be a liar if I say that I don´t think I´m correct. However, I´m always open to the possibility of being wrong as well.

I think I´ve collected plenty of evidence that points that he´s not reliable and he might have been manipulated since the begining of his career, he might be simply lying for any personal purpose or he might have been mislead by his gigantic and fragile Ego.

I seriously think that a huge part of the alternative media is compromised and I think that, after the end of this year, it doesn´t matter what happens, we will be able to make some pretty damn big and definitive conclusions about the nature of this game.

2013 is just around the corner, so lets hold on and stay calm, because very soon a huge piece of this puzzle will be solved.

I must confess that I´m very curious to see what kind of behavior will be adopted here in this forum and in the whole alternative media, after this year is gone...

As far as I´m aware, the 2012 scenario is the biggest alternative subject of the internet age, much bigger than the year 2000.

Who am I to say with absolute certainty that something extraordinary will happen or not, but either way, be prepared to have a huge part of your beliefs definitively shattered.

Cheers,

Raf.

[SilentFeathers]

I stepped away from this thread several hours ago (last night) as it was bouncing back and forth, sideways, and up and down quite a bit with, well, perhaps emotional responses, defense offense, etc. Upon return I see that Bill posted his insight about DW which I am glad, that one post alone (since Bill is closer to David than most of us here) clarified and cleared some of the smoke that was clouding up this thread, at least for me it did....thanks Bill.

I hope David himself reads this thread, it may help clear some of the smoke out of his own mind so he can see a few things pertaining to himself from a different perspective. I'm sure he's heard all of this stuff before, but I'm sure there's quite a few of us here that actually like and care for him.......it's my opinion that if he travels further down the spiral of the big ego that he will end up all alone and in a little hotel room all gray haired....kind of like Tesla in a sense, I don't want that for him and neither should any one else........amazing that someone such as DW that appears so awake is actually needing to be awakened.....

[christian]

A person who wants to be any sort of leader, can´t have the luxury of making mistakes.

The bigger the power one may have to influence people, the bigger the responsibilities get.

Could you imagine, as an example, if Jesus made a mistake while allowing himself to be crucified? Then, basically our whole culture would be based on a mistake.

How about the current mess our world is right now? All of it is because people in high positions of influence made very serious mistakes.

So, if someone wants to be a leader, he should be psychologically prepared for it, which includes at least a very high degree of control over the Ego.

I think your ideals here are unrealistically high. Generally you're of course right, when you emphasize the importance of self-discipline, but everyone makes mistakes at some point. Jesus, the prince of peace, behaved violently towards the money-changers in the temple. But still, the bulk of his message is very valuable and throwing it all away because he violated his own principles at one point would just be out of proportion. That doesn't mean our culture is based on a mistake now, our culture is, what me make it, that's its base eventually, we are responsible. I think the mess right now is not just due to people like David Wilcock making mistakes now and then, those are actually the people who do something to make it better. The mess is mostly a result of people being complacent and doing nothing and other people taking advantage of that in a ruthless manner. It's always a cheap shot to critize those, that are actually in the arena.

[9eagle9]

Appearances are deceiving.

Bottom line, Yes David has interesting information.

More information while interesting even if it's just re-inventing the wheel, straying onto the grounds of "I invented the Wheel" is just more information.

This is 2012 are we going to keep progressing with the same old rearranging the furniture on the Titanic of "thoughts, things to think of and the requisite information that prompts thoughts' or we going to boldly begin to have our own inner knowingness, ways to to erase what prevents that inner knowingness and stop being led around by the nose and their emotionally driven impluses that glom on to any old pseudo-messiahs?

that would be original. Something beyond the boundaries of what we've previously experienced. right now people are just glomming on to the same old experience with different window dressing. Yes your mannequin is appealing and says all the things you want to hear but that isn't what awakening or awareness.

For a bunch of people with slave mentality they sure do not want to do their work, unless its the work of someone else.

Maybe that is there are rumors aflight that the population at large is to be exterminated. They are impotent and helpless to do any sort of inner work save to beg for something else to think about.

[mountain_jim]

but everyone makes mistakes at some point. Jesus, the prince of peace, behaved violently towards the money-changers in the temple

I don't consider that a mistake. We need some more of that now.

[percival tyro]

The vast majority of our citizens haven't heard of these "prophets". Who've been programmed to divert the free souls who are looking for truth, change and the realisation as to who we really are.... That is the people who are thinking outside the box....I enjoy freeze framing them in full flow then ask my intuition/heart to analyze that moment in time, to elicit their credence.

[RMorgan]

A person who wants to be any sort of leader, can´t have the luxury of making mistakes.

The bigger the power one may have to influence people, the bigger the responsibilities get.

Could you imagine, as an example, if Jesus made a mistake while allowing himself to be crucified? Then, basically our whole culture would be based on a mistake.

How about the current mess our world is right now? All of it is because people in high positions of influence made very serious mistakes.

So, if someone wants to be a leader, he should be psychologically prepared for it, which includes at least a very high degree of control over the Ego.

I think your ideals here are unrealistically high. Generally you're of course right, when you emphasize the importance of self-discipline, but everyone makes mistakes at some point. Jesus, the prince of peace, behaved violently towards the money-changers in the temple. But still, the bulk of his message is very valuable and throwing it all away because he violated his own principles at one point would just be out of proportion. That doesn't mean our culture is based on a mistake now, our culture is, what me make it, that's its base eventually, we are responsible. I think the mess right now is not just due to people like David Wilcock making mistakes now and then, those are actually the people who do something to make it better. The mess is mostly a result of people being complacent and doing nothing and other people taking advantage of that in a ruthless manner. It's always a cheap shot to critize those, that are actually in the arena.

Hey Chris,

I partly agree with you.

However, the main problem related to Wilcock scenario, is that there´s a chance that he isn´t doing nothing to make anything better.

If everything that he´s saying is a lie, even if it´s a beautiful lie, it´s still a lie and nothing else. Nothing good could come of a lie.

Please, have in mind that I´m talking only about his original thoughts, not about the many other person´s concepts that he´s been researching. I don´t demerit him as a researcher. He´s dedicated a lot of his time to collect very significant amounts of important data. He deserves credit for that.

I have a huge problem with the idea of ascension that he and other persons are spreading around. I´m really uncomfortable with the fact that he was spreading the same idea back in 1999, relating to the Y2K, and now he´s doing the same thing related to 2012, and maybe after 2012, who knows, he will probably come up with another date.

You see, whenever someone spreads the idea to " Relax. God is in charge. Get up out of that chair, crank up the music and let's dance our way into the Ascension." (http://web.archive.org/web/19990508172312/http://www.ascension2000.com/), he´s leading people to conformity and to a false state of bliss, while the governments of Earth are secretly and strategically planning the next step to control us even more than they do now.

I´m also not confortable with the fact that he´s hitchhiking on other persons reputations (Cacey, Rasputin) to achieve a spiritual guru status.

All these things makes my alarms scream so loud that it makes me mad sometimes.

From my point of view, we´re all in the arena. All of us.

While some people keep shouting that ascension is just around the corner, real, tangible things are happening right now, specially in the USA, that might have huge impacts over everyone´s lives.

While I know we´re all responsible for our problems, i still think that our leaders have a much bigger responsibility.

Wilcock, for instance, in my opinion, is much more like a self-proclaimed leader. However, there´s no such thing as self-proclaimed leaders. Real leaders are chosen by the people, not by themselves.

That´s why I believe there are so many discrepancies in his work. He wants to act like a leader, to appear to be a leader, but he doesn´t have the psychological profile of a leader.

His Ego is so big, that instead of humbly apologizing for his previous mistakes and failed predictions, he come up with excuses like in his 1998 NY bomb prediction "Thankfully, due to our own efforts of prayer and of alerting the proper forces, this strike has been avoided..." http://www.greatdreams.com/nynuke.htm

Also, he´s tried to erase his footprints about many claims present in his earlier career, mostly in his ascension 2000.com website.

So, to sum up, making one, two or three serious mistakes is fine and might only slightly affect someone´s career. However, making one mistake after another and don´t having the decency of at least apologizing for them, from my perceptive, can entirely destroy someone ´s credibility.

I don´t like arrogance. I don´t like shallow excuses. I wouldn´t choose a person with this profile to be my friend, so I obviously wont choose him to have any other influence over my life.

This is my point of view. I know some of you agree and some others disagree and I respect you either way.

Cheers,

Raf.

[SilentFeathers]

I have a huge problem with the idea of ascension that he and other persons are spreading around. I´m really uncomfortable with the fact that he was spreading the same idea back in 1999, relating to the Y2K, and now he´s doing the same thing related to 2012, and maybe after 2012, who knows, he will probably come up with another date.

I agree, it's just another rapture story, dipped in another color of paint appearing "unique" on the outside.

Look how fast the Elenin craze came and went, it was suppose to do all these number of things and even possibly destroy the planet, many even said it was a massive space ship! But it passed on by and when none of this stuff happened no one said a damn word about it, not even a "whoops!"

These rapture stories, no matter what color they are painted are just the same ole stuff.....dragged out a bit longer than the Elenin thing, sometimes dragged out over centuries........amazing huh?

ADDED: I agree with Bill that David is probably being played and manipulated a bit, but I also agree with you, David is not a stupid man, he knows what he's doing to a large extent, we are all responsible for our actions be they good or bad, right or wrong.....that's life in a nut shell :)

[RMorgan]

The vast majority of our citizens haven't heard of these "prophets". They've been programmed to divert the free souls who are looking for truth, change and the realisation as to who we really are. The enemies of their puppetmasters.. The people who are thinking outside the box....I enjoy freeze framing them in full flow then ask my intuition/heart to analyze that moment in time, to elicit their credence. Well it's not rocket science.........

That´s the point!

The huge majority of people haven´t even heard about these subjects we´re talking about right now.

The huge minority of people who are actually interested in investigating the truth are very possibly being mislead.

So, it puts all of us in the same condition of ignorance.

The more I think about it, the more I think that this mainstream media/alternative media scenario is the same thing as the democrat/republicans scenario.

Just two faces of the same coin, to give us the illusion of choice, the illusion that we´re going somewhere while in fact we aren´t.

The "elite" controls the TV, Radio, Newspapers and all sorts of media. Don´t think for a second that they don´t control the internet, because they own the internet.

They pull out pirated mp3 albums all the time from the internet, so don´t think for a nanosecond that, if there was true, dangerous, national security information floating around on the web, that they would allow this information to be easily accessed.

Possibly, every subject we´re discussing right now, every whistle-blower, every piece of "sensitive info" is here just because they allowed it, to achieve a certain purpose.

There´s a huge possibility that we´re all being played like pawns.




I agree, it's just another rapture story, dipped in another color of paint appearing "unique" on the outside.

Look how fast the Elenin craze came and went, it was suppose to do all these number of things and even possibly destroy the planet, many even said it was a massive space ship! But it passed on by and when none of this stuff happened no one said a damn word about it, not even a "whoops!"

These rapture stories, no matter what color they are painted are just the same ole stuff.....dragged out a bit longer than the Elenin thing, sometimes dragged out over centuries........amazing huh?

ADDED: I agree with Bill that David is probably being played and manipulated a bit, but I also agree with you, David is not a stupid man, he knows what he's doing to a large extent, we are all responsible for our actions be they good or bad, right or wrong.....that's life in a nut shell :)

Hey mate,

By the way, just remember how many people here were blindly believing in the Elenin story!

Just remember the tons of "evidence" and "proof" about Elenin people were trying to shove down our throats!

Just remember how mad some people used to get when another folk eventually disagreed with them!

Anyway, Elenin is gone...It doesn´t matter anymore.

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

At any rate this thread is about his failed predictions.

Predictably enough (he, he) his fans come flying out of the woodwork to excuse those failures because his information is good. The same thing we see David himself do--make excuses if not outright blame others for the failure to have his predictions materialize.

Predictions are pretty much just more information. His information has reliably failed in the past and fails in the present and maybe one day he'll 'get it' but who knows what will have happened by then.

Predictions can also be reliably made by watching the same chain of events occurring over and over. Without any meaningful intervention to change that constantly perpetrating repetition--chainfall of repeating events-- one can make a accurate prediction it will just keep occurring. If I observe someone sticking their foot in their mouth a dozen times a day; until something occurs that sways that behavior I have no reason to doubt that the foot sticking will occur again.

A psychic is only as good as their predictions that have come to pass. The events DW predicted in 99 for 2000 failed to come to pass; the predictions he made last fall for mid march have not materialized.

He makes these predictions because this what his fans want to hear.

I cannot help but observe his fans bear the same sort of personality traits that he does. Constantly making excuses and rationalizing and brushing ones failure to make good on their promises under the rug.

[SilentFeathers]

Predictably enough (he, he) his fans come flying out of the woodwork to excuse those failures because his information is good. The same thing we see David himself do--make excuses if not outright blame others for the failure to have his predictions materialize.



....and I do not see this thread as a slam and bash thread either, but a journey towards truth, haven't we been misled long enough? Unfortunately for David and some of his actions, this part of the journey towards truth involves him......so be it and onwards.....

[Sierra]

Self admitting to imposing psychological influence on other's is not exactly framing you in a trustworthy light.

That is archonic manipulation on it's own.

(shrug) People can and will continue to provide their own evidence.




And I've been known to speak in other people's heads. In broad daylight. live waking situations.

What say you?

If your circle of logic is too small, your circle of view is too small, your circle of comfort is too small...you will believe what is in front of you.... and then you will find yourself corralled by someone else's larger circle of logic.

Archonic? I've never found telepathic communication to be archonic. Then again, I've never received telepathic communication from those who use dark side equipment, just from those who live in the heart. Big difference. I assume.

Sierra

[Mozart]

I´m also not confortable with the fact that he´s hitchhiking on other persons reputations (Cacey, Rasputin) to achieve a spiritual guru status.




Raf ~


I've not read through this awful thread, though I've read through some of it.


There are so many goddamn errors and assumptions about Wilcock, about the ascension ... jeez, where do I start?


Well I'll start with this goddam insistence of yours about Cayce and Rasputin.


Did you check out the damn link with the charts that I have sent to this forum in my previous reply to this thread?


http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/articles/35-wilcock-and-cayce-an-extraordinary-astrological-recapitulation


Read it, man!


And read this one, too:


http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/articles/36-introduction-to-the-wilcock-cayce-ra-connection


A damn excerpt:



I, David, do not wish to self-aggrandize or make myself out to be something great through writing all of this. In fact, I dislike the spotlight and the controversy, and that is why I haven't yet written up this article until now, after knowing about this for a year and seven months already.



When David found out -- from his Higher Self, the "Source" -- that he was, in fact, Cayce returned, he ran to the bathroom and threw up. He did not want to put this out to the world and sat on this for well over a year before putting it out to the world -- does that sound like some damn "self-proclaimed" "I-am-Cleopatra" idiot? Hell no.


And it was not until David's own Source's persistent insistence in numerous dreams for David to put the Cayce connection out there in the world as a "calling card" -- a term that his own Source used -- for his going public, in a sense.


And Rasputin? WTF? He has never claimed to be Rasputin, so WTF did you get the idea that he's claimed to be Rasputin?


And I don't have enough time to go on and on and on in defense of Wilcock. You guys have made up your minds that he's a fraud and that's that.


But for you to go off half-cocked with your insistence about Cayce and Rasputin ... come on, man, admit that you effed up! Effing egos ... can't admit that you are wrong, can't you?


~Mozart

[we-R-one]

Mozart, I'm not convinced that Raf takes the time to read the links- I can tell by his comments as he's ignored the one's I've given him in the past too, fyi.

[Bill Ryan]

There are so many goddamn errors and assumptions about Wilcock, about the ascension ... jeez, where do I start?


Here's the definitive statement of David's views, at least as of May/June 2007:

The Road to Ascension (Kerry's interview with him)


http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_1_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_3_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_4_en.html

There's a lot more on this in the interview, but David's summary (for one of the three groups of humans -- he talks about a three-way split) -- is as follows. This is from the se (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html)c (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html)ond part of the interview (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html).





We have seven years from now until 2012. [Bill's note: he meant to say five.] I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Yes, I´ve read the article and I´m still no convinced.

Please, this is nothing personal. I respect you guys a lot.

I wont argue about astrology/numerology because I don´t believe in it.

However, if he "dislikes the spotlight and the controversy", then why he would spread the word about it in the first place?

Why, if he dislikes the situation, would he take a picture in the exact angle, facial expression and propitious light conditions to try to look as close as possible to Edgar Cacey?

Besides, the fact the he wants to make his family members look like the reincarnation of other folks is, in my opinion, very far-fetched as well.

Anyway, there´s no way to argue about reincarnation.

I could claim that I´m the reincarnation of Pablo Picasso, read everything I can about him and no one could prove or disprove it. I could even paint like him (not so good of course, but relatively close).

What makes my alarms ring is the way he deals with this whole situation.

I don´t buy for a second that he "dislikes the spotlight". I think he loves it!

How about it this:

"Numerous laypersons as well as several experienced portrait artists have verified that the facial similarities between David and Cayce are astounding." (from the link you´ve sent me)

The fact is, that they are not even similar, except for his website picture, on which he managed to find the exact angle and exact lighting to make them look similar. I think he likes that picture so much that he might even carry it in his wallet.

This is cayce:

http://www.visithopkinsville.com/userfiles/image/Edgar%20Cayce.jpg

This is David Wilcock:

http://projectcamelot.org/david_wilcock_3_med.jpg

With all due respect, Cayce was a much more handsome man than him, in fact.

Sorry folks. You know I respect you a lot, but this reincarnation subject is the worse possible way to verify his authenticity, since it´s a completely subjective matter.

If astrology/numerology had a formula to prove reincarnation, that could be repeated over and over again, without failure, then I would consider this hypothesis more carefully.

By the way, thanks for this, Bill:

"We have seven years from now until 2012. [Bill's note: he meant to say five.] I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!"

There´s no need to speculate anymore. Soon it will be 2013 and we´ll see if he´s correct.

I must remember again that, back in 1998, he was saying the same things about the year 2000. There´s no way to disprove that. It´s all recorded in his previous ascension2000 website.

I´m still 99,9% convinced that he´s completely wrong and will come up with the most ridiculous excuses next year.

Cheers,

Raf.

[WhiteFeather]

There are so many goddamn errors and assumptions about Wilcock, about the ascension ... jeez, where do I start?


Here's the definitive statement of David's views, at least as of May/June 2007:

The Road to Ascension (Kerry's interview with him)


http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_1_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_3_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_4_en.html

There's a lot more on this in the interview, but David's summary (for one of the three groups of humans -- he talks about a three-way split) -- is as follows. This is from the se (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html)c (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html)ond part of the interview (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html).





We have seven years from now until 2012. [Bill's note: he meant to say five.] I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!


Whats your perspective on D.W, If You wouldn't mind Bill? I think some of us would like to here you chime in if you will.

[Arrowwind]

David Wilcock:



We have seven years from now until 2012. [Bill's note: he meant to say five.] I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!


And let the good times roll... sit back, have a beer.. You don't have to do a dam thing... just wait for 2012 to pass.
Im game! Nothing else seems to be working on the national and international level anyway.

Does this mean I dont have to plant my garden this year?
and should I throw away all American Airline free flights I still have coming my way?

[Bill Ryan]

There are so many goddamn errors and assumptions about Wilcock, about the ascension ... jeez, where do I start?


Here's the definitive statement of David's views, at least as of May/June 2007:

The Road to Ascension (Kerry's interview with him)



http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_1_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_3_en.html
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_4_en.html


There's a lot more on this in the interview, but David's summary (for one of the three groups of humans -- he talks about a three-way split) -- is as follows. This is from the se (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html)c (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html)ond part of the interview (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/david_wilcock_interview_transcript_2_en.html).





We have seven years from now until 2012. [Bill's note: he meant to say five.] I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!


Whats your perspective on D.W, If You wouldn't mind Bill? I think some of us would like to here you chime in if you will.

Here (posted earlier today):

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=494483&viewfull=1#post494483


-------

David Wilcock has a very high intellect, and an exceptional ability to collect, store, recall, and synthesize information — and present it in a smooth, articulate way that engages his audience, whether in writing or audio/video/live. This has on many occasions done the alternative community a great service.

He has also on several occasions been a valuable friend, though I have not seen or spoken with him since the last Awake and Aware conference in September 2011. (I wanted to meet with him privately after the conference, and wrote to him to that effect, but he did not reply and has not contacted me since. I was disappointed.)

The other side of David’s personality is that he sees himself as an I’ll-save-Planet-Earth-on-my-own messiah, and his ego has been growing steadily year on year to a degree now when many, including Kerry and myself, find it uncomfortable to listen to him. His worldview has grown to become primarily self-centered, self-interested and self-promotional.

He is rarely able to admit being wrong; he is not as brave, stable or centered as he would like people to think he is; and his sources include three that Kerry and I at Project Camelot have now rejected as at least to some degree unreliable. (He has frequently irritated Kerry and myself by using Camelot witnesses, and source material, without crediting us as being the prime source of a significant amount of his information. He tends to be very territorial and competitive about his sources; Kerry and I have shared ours freely with him, but he has rarely reciprocated.)

To Kerry’s credit, she has rarely spoken as openly about him as I am doing now. But I think these things need to be said.

My personal view is that he is being played, in a clever handy-dandy-multi-purpose psy-op PART of which is intended to discredit him. I have not talked with Kerry recently about this (although I can guess her stance). David was way too quick to jump on the Drake nonsense, and I’m as sure as I can be that this was engineered, with or without Drake’s awareness.

One by one, moves are being made to discredit the key alternative media spokespeople. Take a moment to see it all from this point of view. It’s very ingenious, and very dangerous.

[Arrowwind]

:wave:...................................

[RMorgan]

Hey Bill,

May I ask you a question?

Have you ever asked him about his previous claims that ascension would happen in 2000?

I´m really curious about what he would answer.

Cheers,

Raf.

[JRS]

Hi Raf,

I'm trying to get my head around a statement you made in post 264. You stated: " However, the main problem related to Wilcock scenario, is that there´s a chance that he isn´t doing nothing to make anything better."

I think you may have made a 'Freudian slip' there. The double negative "he isn't doing nothing" = "he is doing something" so the statement made = "However , the main problem related to Wilcock scenario, is that there's a chance that

he is doing something to make things better." I doubt that consciously you did mean to make that statement, but maybe subconsciously you did? It is interesting how consciousness seems to operate. Very Sincerely, Jim

[RMorgan]

Hi Raf,

I'm trying to get my head around a statement you made in post 264. You stated: " However, the main problem related to Wilcock scenario, is that there´s a chance that he isn´t doing nothing to make anything better."

I think you may have made a 'Freudian slip' there. The double negative "he isn't doing nothing" = "he is doing something" so the statement made = "However , the main problem related to Wilcock scenario, is that there's a chance that

he is doing something to make things better." I doubt that consciously you did mean to make that statement, but maybe subconsciously you did? It is interesting how consciousness seems to operate. Very Sincerely, Jim

Hey mate,

English is not my mother tongue. I´m still not 100% comfortable with it.

I apologize in advance for many grammatical mistakes I´ll surely commit in the future as well.

Man, if I just could express myself at least 60% well in English, as I can in Portuguese, my posts would look much better.

Any correction like this one is very welcome, folks.

I guess it´s not some sort of Freudian slip, since my subconscious speaks Portuguese, not English. ;)

Translating from Portuguese to English can be very hard, because Portuguese is a much more complicated language and it sometimes may lead me to translate things quite literally, word by word, while popular English is a very simplified language.

In Portuguese, this sentence ( there´s a chance that he isn´t doing nothing to make anything better.) would be written like "existe uma chance dele não estar fazendo nada para melhorar coisa nenhuma", which would be correct, from the popular Portuguese point of view.

Cheers,

Raf.

[foreverfan]

Why would he need money if he is ascending?

Ascending is expensive?

[Anchor]

By the way, thanks for this, Bill:

"We have seven years from now until 2012. [Bill's note: he meant to say five.] I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!"

There´s no need to speculate anymore. Soon it will be 2013 and we´ll see if he´s correct.



Raf,

I very much appreciate you keeping a cool head about all this and enabling this topic to run a reasonable course.

You do of course realize that in the quote provided by Bill he does not say that all these things happen immediately after 2012, just that 2012 is the start of these things and they will happen after, he does not say when.

I know I know, it's not maybe what you WANT to read or have read :)

I am not a die hard defender of David Wilcock, to a great extent I agree with Bill's first post on this thread. I have stated it before that I think that David's ego has let him down and provided a chink which is very attractive for the energies that seek to subvert or discredit what I believe to be his higher aims.

I just want to see people play fair when spinning his claims and becoming what I see as unwitting vectors for those energies.

We all want a harmonious world don't we? Why do we knock those that present a glimpse at the keys to that? Just because they are a bit up-themselves - or cant easily admit to errors when errors are made ?

At the end of the day, the only totally effective judgement against the entity known currently as David Wilcock, will be that of the entity known as David Wilcock - we are just spectators with opinions.

I for one, remain able to see the positive in what he has been up to, but I still shake my head at some of the things he does - and I find the "Drake Drama" to be one of those examples.

I have nearly finished the SFI book, and I am glad it got written and I am glad I got to read it.

John..

[RMorgan]

Hey Anchor,

Well, that interview Bill is talking about was made in May/June 2007.

Since David is saying "I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!"

If he was wrong in his quick calculations, maybe he wanted to say five years, instead of seven, giving 2012. If he´s was actually meaning 7 years, he´s pointing to 2014.

Anyway, I´ve answered you before somewhere along the thread, but I will answer again.

Have you seen his documentary called 2012 The Enigma? http://youtu.be/o1Hw8DVLw-A

It´s about 2012.

Have you read the summary of his new book, The Source Field Investigation?

""If you believe there is no special significance to the year 2012, then prepare yourself for a guided tour through the most incredible scientific mysteries in the modern world, which may be the rediscovery of an ancient system of physics and spirituality that was once widely used and understood, but has since crumbled almost completely into ruin." -The Source Field Investigations

In his documentary The 2012 Enigma-viewed more than two million times- David Wilcock exposed many great secrets: DNA, consciousness science, wormholes, stargate travel, sacred geometry, three-dimensional time, the Mayan calendar, and much more. And in this book, his seminal work, he'll expose even more.

Calling upon fascinating areas of alternative science, Wilcock's unique philosophy connects the human species and the rest of the cosmos, proposing that it is in our power to usher in the Golden Age prophesied in so many ancient cultures and spiritual traditions. Unlike the doom- and-gloom viewpoints depicted in big-budget disaster films, Wilcock believes that 2012 may be a watermark for when a widespread acceptance of a greater reality will begin to occur-and in his book, he lays out many of the blueprints for such a Golden Age."

http://www.amazon.com/The-Source-Field-Investigations-Civilizations/dp/0525952047

It´s about 2012 among other interesting subjects. I guess you know that better than I do since you´ve read the book.

However, I´d like to ask you this, and I would be very glad if you could answer me. Have you visited his older website, ascension2000.com? If you have, what do you think of the first sentence of the website, which is:

Dedicated to the Single Greatest Moment of All Time,

Now Within One Year of Arrival - Getting Excited?

ET's Note: Things might not look very good to you right now. Turn off the TV - you are not going crazy. Take a walk outside. The world is not going to end - it is going to begin. Relax. God is in charge. Get up out of that chair, crank up the music and let's dance our way into the Ascension. You want to be standing up when this happens.

http://web.archive.org/web/19990508172312/http://www.ascension2000.com/

In my opinion, with all due respect, this is ludicrous.

Please, do you realize that he was predicting ascension for the year 2000? Please, answer me.

For me, only the single fact that he was shouting ascension back in 2000, and still doing the same thing now, it´s already at least very suspicious and was enough for me to loose any esteem I used to have for him.

Of course, I´d love to live in a beautiful, balanced world and I´m working hard to do my part locally, but I don´t believe for a single second that it will happen magically like he claims.

In fact, claiming things like that just encourages people to be complacent and conformist, while the world is almost burning out there.

We need proactive persons, not a bunch of people waiting for ascension/rapture/return of Jesus/whatever, like it´s happening for thousands of years.

Cheers,

Raf.

[the_vast_mystery]

There's one thing that bothers me about David Wilcock and that's his never admitting fully to his faults. I think it's very unwise to trust someone who wants to throw themselves into the fray as some sort of public figure and yet cannot take serious responsibility for what he says and does (such as his predictions) by honestly owning his failures as much as his successes. We all do it naturally, embellish our accomplishments and downplay our failures, some more or less than others. We all are biased to some level, but for someone who would claim to have a real interest in not publicity, but bringing "truth" forward I would certainly want them to be very humble and apologize if and when they fail. That's the mark of someone who you can trust, when they're honest to the point they'll risk telling you the truth even if it may make you hate/leave them. The means make the ends, and while he may have had an honest intent to begin with at this point I have little reason to read him except for entertainment and as a possible barometer of where certain people are attempting to shift the alternative community's focus.

9Eagle9 has some very good points here, we should start watching these people, especially Wilcock, more closely and watch their claims more closely. Strategic discrediting, as she mentioned using Cayce, is a very well known tactic used in the political sphere as a last-minute form of damage control. You get someone toxic to endorse or oppose an idea that you want supported or rejected so that you can use their cult of personality to achieve a precise and targeted effect. Another example of this would be Rick Santorum ranting about the educational system. He's a horrible human being most of the time, but he actually had some very astute criticisms of the school system as well. Of course, I'm sure the reason he leveled those criticisms was entirely to damage them so that suddenly anyone evoking the mantra of "Schools are assembly-lines to produce non-thinking tax-payers" even if they can actually cite research on the foundations which started public schooling, is now going to have to battle with Santorum's cult of personality and the fact that people will reflexively oppose anything he supports.

I'm still thinking about the nature of emotions, and these manipulations as I continue to debug myself. Right now I'm considering the possibility that the alternative community is being deceived via feeding codependent tendencies by establishing certain "personalities" as pillars of support on which we rely to have a balanced emotional life. I.E. If you feel good because you believe David Wilcock and then he turns out to be a fraud, you'll defend him even if he is a fraud rather than do the harder work of finding a way to achieve a balanced state of mind without needing to believe in him. (Because most people will naturally pick the easier of two choices if they seem at least superficially to lead to the same outcome.) So people who feel depressed, disconnected and especially of a low self-worth are going to gravitate towards these stronger, affirming personalities like David because they offer the re-assurance someone in that state of mind feels they need. I should know, I fell for it at first too until I came onto the revelations about the Cayce society and the L/L Research group regarding his past on Above Top Secret. That was enough to clue me in that this guy was probably not legit or at the least being influenced by someone who was not legit.

What's worse is that David himself may not be a con man, he could honestly be like Harold Camping and he may himself have issues that create a need for him to believe he is this personality he projects. He can be 100% honest about what he believes while still being entirely incorrect about anything he says. This is why, even if you are an empath and even if you can read people's intentions perfectly you are not immune from deception. You can't detect people who are true masters of self-deception that way since they are 100% honest from their POV. There is another trap I think the alternative community falls into and that's either/or black and white thinking regarding mental illness. People often tend to go to the extreme and disbelieve mental illness exists or that it can at times be exactly what it says it is. Psychopaths certainly exist, we're being governed by them. Similarly I don't think we can go so far as to say all mental illness is spiritual illness and that all mental illness can be solved through one spiritual method, etc.

There's a need for a balanced approach and that means recognizing that yes, there are people who are people who are just deranged, deluded and more than anything just very desperate individuals looking for anything to make themselves feel better. I try not to be one of them but I don't always do so well at it. But by recognizing where I'm lacking I can, to some extent work against it and progress out of it, at least for periods of time. This also means though that these things can interplay together, someone may in fact be a reincarnation of Cayce, or a starseed, develop a mental illness due to being treated like dirt that can be explained correctly using psychology, but may also be being actively mind-****ed by the government, and may end up as a result of all of those conditions be spewing disinformation online as part of some COINTELPRO for the government without ever realizing it. The real world is complex, and filled with nuance, I don't imagine for a moment that any spiritual world would be anything else; In fact, dare I say, it might be even more complex and nuanced than this one entirely because it is supposed to be so much more vast and all-encompassing.

Furthermore, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anyone who calls this a bash thread obviously has no idea of nuance. Bashing would be insulting David for his hair, his voice, or his gesticulations. It would be calling him dumb names or attempting to smear him using meaningless and irrelevant things.

When someone posts a record of false predictions, a record of outrageous claims, and then says they hypothesize he might be a fraud that is a legitimate criticism and it does not make it bashing just because YOU personally have your feelings hurt. Just because you feel hurt does not mean your hurt is justified. Similarly just because you personally claim to know something or believe something does not in any way make it true.

It may be "True" to you, but if it is not applicable to the other person calling it "Truth" is insulting because you are telling them that your idea is so uniquely correct that anything else is, by definition, untrue. But of course especially if you can't demonstrate anything more for anything you say beyond throwing more useless information out there (useless as in it does not make falsifiable claims that can be empirically verified through experimentation and observation) then you need to consider other people.

Especially if you believe absolutely in what you have to say, you should WANT to prove it to others, because if your intent is to legitimately spread the word then you need to consider that evidence is the only effective and respectable way to do it. By making claims one cannot substantiate you harm everything you set out to do. You lump yourself in with every huckster, con-man, and charlatan that ever was and offer no way to rise above it; at that point you might as well just keep quiet. I mean, think about how you'd feel if you'd first heard about ascension from Charles Manson?

The public would certainly think twice about anyone else talking about ascension, and that is exactly why people need to either put up or shut up when they talk about these things. Especially if you're correct, by not recognizing the reality of the situation as far as what people are willingly ready to accept and believe over the long term, you will only in the end sow more discord and chaos rather than build any lasting support for your cause.

[RMorgan]

the_vast_mystery ,

This is the best post I´ve read in this thread.

You´re a very good writer and your arguments are very coherent.

Thank you for for saying a lot of things I´d like to say but can´t because of the language barriers.

I agree with you 100% and I´m really impressed, seriously.

Regards,

Raf.

Ps: By the way, could you say a little bit more about the Cayce society and the L/L Research group regarding his past on Above Top Secret?

[NancyV]

Excellent post, vast-mystery! :)

[foreverfan]

There's one thing that bothers me about David Wilcock and that's his never admitting fully to his faults. I think it's very unwise to trust someone who wants to throw themselves into the fray as some sort of public figure and yet cannot take serious responsibility for what he says and does (such as his predictions) by honestly owning his failures as much as his successes. We all do it naturally, embellish our accomplishments and downplay our failures, some more or less than others. We all are biased to some level, but for someone who would claim to have a real interest in not publicity, but bringing "truth" forward I would certainly want them to be very humble and apologize if and when they fail. That's the mark of someone who you can trust, when they're honest to the point they'll risk telling you the truth even if it may make you hate/leave them. The means make the ends, and while he may have had an honest intent to begin with at this point I have little reason to read him except for entertainment and as a possible barometer of where certain people are attempting to shift the alternative community's focus.

9Eagle9 has some very good points here, we should start watching these people, especially Wilcock, more closely and watch their claims more closely. Strategic discrediting, as she mentioned using Cayce, is a very well known tactic used in the political sphere as a last-minute form of damage control. You get someone toxic to endorse or oppose an idea that you want supported or rejected so that you can use their cult of personality to achieve a precise and targeted effect. Another example of this would be Rick Santorum ranting about the educational system. He's a horrible human being most of the time, but he actually had some very astute criticisms of the school system as well. Of course, I'm sure the reason he leveled those criticisms was entirely to damage them so that suddenly anyone evoking the mantra of "Schools are assembly-lines to produce non-thinking tax-payers" even if they can actually cite research on the foundations which started public schooling, is now going to have to battle with Santorum's cult of personality and the fact that people will reflexively oppose anything he supports.

I'm still thinking about the nature of emotions, and these manipulations as I continue to debug myself. Right now I'm considering the possibility that the alternative community is being deceived via feeding codependent tendencies by establishing certain "personalities" as pillars of support on which we rely to have a balanced emotional life. I.E. If you feel good because you believe David Wilcock and then he turns out to be a fraud, you'll defend him even if he is a fraud rather than do the harder work of finding a way to achieve a balanced state of mind without needing to believe in him. (Because most people will naturally pick the easier of two choices if they seem at least superficially to lead to the same outcome.) So people who feel depressed, disconnected and especially of a low self-worth are going to gravitate towards these stronger, affirming personalities like David because they offer the re-assurance someone in that state of mind feels they need. I should know, I fell for it at first too until I came onto the revelations about the Cayce society and the L/L Research group regarding his past on Above Top Secret. That was enough to clue me in that this guy was probably not legit or at the least being influenced by someone who was not legit.

What's worse is that David himself may not be a con man, he could honestly be like Harold Camping and he may himself have issues that create a need for him to believe he is this personality he projects. He can be 100% honest about what he believes while still being entirely incorrect about anything he says. This is why, even if you are an empath and even if you can read people's intentions perfectly you are not immune from deception. You can't detect people who are true masters of self-deception that way since they are 100% honest from their POV. There is another trap I think the alternative community falls into and that's either/or black and white thinking regarding mental illness. People often tend to go to the extreme and disbelieve mental illness exists or that it can at times be exactly what it says it is. Psychopaths certainly exist, we're being governed by them. Similarly I don't think we can go so far as to say all mental illness is spiritual illness and that all mental illness can be solved through one spiritual method, etc.

There's a need for a balanced approach and that means recognizing that yes, there are people who are people who are just deranged, deluded and more than anything just very desperate individuals looking for anything to make themselves feel better. I try not to be one of them but I don't always do so well at it. But by recognizing where I'm lacking I can, to some extent work against it and progress out of it, at least for periods of time. This also means though that these things can interplay together, someone may in fact be a reincarnation of Cayce, or a starseed, develop a mental illness due to being treated like dirt that can be explained correctly using psychology, but may also be being actively mind-****ed by the government, and may end up as a result of all of those conditions be spewing disinformation online as part of some COINTELPRO for the government without ever realizing it. The real world is complex, and filled with nuance, I don't imagine for a moment that any spiritual world would be anything else; In fact, dare I say, it might be even more complex and nuanced than this one entirely because it is supposed to be so much more vast and all-encompassing.

Furthermore, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anyone who calls this a bash thread obviously has no idea of nuance. Bashing would be insulting David for his hair, his voice, or his gesticulations. It would be calling him dumb names or attempting to smear him using meaningless and irrelevant things.

When someone posts a record of false predictions, a record of outrageous claims, and then says they hypothesize he might be a fraud that is a legitimate criticism and it does not make it bashing just because YOU personally have your feelings hurt. Just because you feel hurt does not mean your hurt is justified. Similarly just because you personally claim to know something or believe something does not in any way make it true.

It may be "True" to you, but if it is not applicable to the other person calling it "Truth" is insulting because you are telling them that your idea is so uniquely correct that anything else is, by definition, untrue. But of course especially if you can't demonstrate anything more for anything you say beyond throwing more useless information out there (useless as in it does not make falsifiable claims that can be empirically verified through experimentation and observation) then you need to consider other people.

Especially if you believe absolutely in what you have to say, you should WANT to prove it to others, because if your intent is to legitimately spread the word then you need to consider that evidence is the only effective and respectable way to do it. By making claims one cannot substantiate you harm everything you set out to do. You lump yourself in with every huckster, con-man, and charlatan that ever was and offer no way to rise above it; at that point you might as well just keep quiet. I mean, think about how you'd feel if you'd first heard about ascension from Charles Manson?

The public would certainly think twice about anyone else talking about ascension, and that is exactly why people need to either put up or shut up when they talk about these things. Especially if you're correct, by not recognizing the reality of the situation as far as what people are willingly ready to accept and believe over the long term, you will only in the end sow more discord and chaos rather than build any lasting support for your cause.

Let me paraphrase for the reading impared: DW is delusional.

Wikipedia - A delusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion) is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. Unlike hallucinations, delusions are always pathological. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information dogma, poor memory, illusion, or other effects of perception.

[9eagle9]

So you wouldn't know yet mysteriously...you do.

. Plain old living breathing humans can be as parasitical as the unseen things lurking about.



Self admitting to imposing psychological influence on other's is not exactly framing you in a trustworthy light.

That is archonic manipulation on it's own.

(shrug) People can and will continue to provide their own evidence.




And I've been known to speak in other people's heads. In broad daylight. live waking situations.

What say you?

If your circle of logic is too small, your circle of view is too small, your circle of comfort is too small...you will believe what is in front of you.... and then you will find yourself corralled by someone else's larger circle of logic.

Archonic? I've never found telepathic communication to be archonic. Then again, I've never received telepathic communication from those who use dark side equipment, just from those who live in the heart. Big difference. I assume.

Sierra

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

I was doing more research here, since I´ll have to work all night long and I must take a break sometimes.

Edgar Cayce´s A.R.E , Association for Research and Enlightenment, denied that David Wilcock may be his reincarnation:

Q: Has Edgar Cayce reincarnated/returned? Did Edgar Cayce predict his return (in 1998)?
A: This question has come up very frequently–with individuals claiming to either be Edgar Cayce himself or stating that they are in communication with Edgar Cayce. At the present time, A.R.E. does not believe that Edgar Cayce has returned.

Part of the reason that individuals may be asking the question in the first place is because of a reading that suggested Edgar Cayce could return in 1998. Let us look at a couple of possibilities regarding what this might mean:

Cayce would literally return in the flesh in 1998. If literal, does this mean that he was born around 1998, or does this mean that he would make his presence known in 1998? The important thing to remember is that even if Edgar Cayce did return, he is not necessarily going to pick up his life as "Edgar Cayce." He would have a new life with new opportunities and new lessons. We can find an example of this in the Bible dealing with the reincarnation of Elijah as John the Baptist. Jesus stated that John was, in fact, the reincarnation of Elijah. Edgar Cayce also confirmed the same thing in his readings. However, when John was asked straightforward, "Are you Elijah?" He replied, "No, I am John." In other words, the personality does not reincarnate, only the soul entity (or the true individuality) returns.
Many people believe that Edgar Cayce's material would begin to return to the spotlight around 1998–making more and more individuals aware of the wealth of helpful insights he left behind. Interestingly enough, in December 1997 the A&E's Biography did a program on Edgar Cayce's life. At around the same time, a 26-week series on Edgar Cayce's life and work called The New Millennium starting airing on the Wisdom Cable Channel. In addition, since that time a new biography: Edgar Cayce: An American Prophet has been released in both hardback and paperback. A.R.E. has also launched a major website, attracting tens of thousands of "hits" per month. All of these things have certainly helped to heighten an awareness of the Cayce information.
Another important consideration is that oftentimes, in the process of a "soul awakening,"; individuals have memories and feelings from the past that somehow come to the surface in the present. Part of our challenge in this process is sorting through all of the images, memories, and feelings, attempting to separate reality from metaphor.

In other words, sometimes individuals have such strong feelings and images about a particular person and/or place that they begin to associate personally with those memories. Generally, memories of this nature are not literal. Most often, these feelings and images should be associated with what the person/place really means to us in the present. In other words, what is it about the individual or the time period in history that touches us very deeply at a soul level?

Sometimes, individuals were actually associated with a famous person in a past life and came to revere that person. The result is that in this incarnation the individual has a strong sense of familiarity with that "famous" soul. In fact, frequently this familiarity becomes so strong that the individual in the present begins to think they were actually that person from the past.

With this in mind, it is very likely that individuals who think that they are the return of Edgar Cayce actually had a close association with him (and his work) in one of his past incarnations. According to his own readings, his soul had been very active in doing a similar work in at least three additional time periods: Atlantis, Ancient Egypt, and Palestine.

All of this said, frequently individuals have still been so convinced that they are either the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce or in communication with him, that we have often asked them to respond to several questions that only Edgar Cayce would know the answer to. At this point in time, no one has ever answered any of the questions correctly.

source: http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/edgarcayce.aspx?id=2473#reincarnate

This is very important information that must be considered in our investigation.

Like they said, many persons claimed to be his reincarnation but none of them could answer their specific questions.

Who knows...Chico Xavier, the famous Brazilian medium, even left a secret password with his closest friends, anticipating that a lot of people would claim to be his reincarnation or claim to be channeling him. He told his friends to only believe someone is representing him, if the person could give the correct password...Smart man...Even him, who I believe was a genuine medium, was a skeptic.

Cheers,

Raf.

[doodah]

This is the strangest thread I've ever seen. All this hoopla because the OP doesn't like David Wilcock.

If he excites your dislike so much, the solution is simple: Stop reading, watching, and listening to David Wilcock. There may be other things that would be more positive for you, that resonate with you and raise your vibration a little higher. David and his material obviously isn't it.

In the end, we all have to use discernment every moment of the day. You already know how you feel about this man. There may be nothing for you to learn from him, but there are many other people you can choose from.

Peace,
~ Doodah

[gripreaper]

We have seven years from now until 2012. I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!

The Siddhis abilities have been around for millennia, and have been spoken about by the ancients as available for all who choose to clear their energetic beliefs from their chakras, and increase their kundalini energy and focus it properly. The lower Siddhis include clairevoyance, claireaudience, clairesentience, etc. and are the basic Siddhis abilities, while the higher Siddhis practices include teleportation, levitation, remote viewing, and instant manifestation with intent.

These abilities were never intended to be handed out at a certain time based on the Gregorian calendar just because we are here on planet earth. If one chooses to embrace the alchemy of the Siddhis, one must go through the initiate process and learn righteousness (the right use of energy) whether it is this year, or next year, or 1000 years ago.

Every moment which you create, focus and direct your energy, you are ascending. When you eat an apple you are increasing your life force, which is a form of energetic ascension. The notion that energetic ascension is someplace you "go" outside your body is new age gobbilygook and is blatantly ludicrous, and is not what the ancients taught us about energy and ascension.

[Anchor]

However, I´d like to ask you this, and I would be very glad if you could answer me. Have you visited his older website, ascension2000.com? If you have, what do you think of the first sentence of the website, which is:

Dedicated to the Single Greatest Moment of All Time,

Now Within One Year of Arrival - Getting Excited?

ET's Note: Things might not look very good to you right now. Turn off the TV - you are not going crazy. Take a walk outside. The world is not going to end - it is going to begin. Relax. God is in charge. Get up out of that chair, crank up the music and let's dance our way into the Ascension. You want to be standing up when this happens.

http://web.archive.org/web/19990508172312/http://www.ascension2000.com/

In my opinion, with all due respect, this is ludicrous.

Please, do you realize that he was predicting ascension for the year 2000? Please, answer me.

I am here answering you :)

Yes I visited that site when it was live in the earlydays.

No I did not think we would ascend in 2000.

He clearly made a mistake or misinterpreted some information.

Yes he was predicting ascension in 2000, and he was wrong.

You are correct.

He has not satisfactorily addressed this issue that I am aware of, for my part it does not need addressing, for others its more important that he does.

Like I said I am not a die hard defender of David Wilcock.

I appreciate the dot-connections, information etc he has offered me and if it were not for him, I may not have heard about the Law Of One as early as I did.

We all make mistakes and we all at some time or other fail hard.


Bruce Wayne: I wanted to save Gotham, I failed
Alfred Pennyworth: Why do we fall sir? So we might learn to pick ourselves up
Bruce Wayne: You still haven't given up on me?
Alfred Pennyworth: Never


John..

[Carmody]

but everyone makes mistakes at some point. Jesus, the prince of peace, behaved violently towards the money-changers in the temple

I don't consider that a mistake. We need some more of that now.


It's called 'doing what needs be done', where the force enacted was the force required to get the job done, or to get the point across.

No more, and certainly no less. If he had done less, it would have been 'not effective enough'.

My posting was calculated to go along those lines. They were designed to elicit a certain kind of reflection and rumination. The kind that helps stop the tendency to go off the deep end -in it's tracks.

:)

[Carmody]

And I'm pretty sure RMorgan can convey to you an overt threat to have himself balanced by Carmody further upthread.

Did you miss that Paul?

People provide their own evidence.



I apparently missed the place where Carmody said he imposed his influence, without permission or proper motivation.

I was really pissed with a few people, a while back, in my personal life. Not this on line space.

At the same time I was ranting (burning up at a serious rate) about it, to myself, I manged to project it hard enough that they asked me later that day, if I was in the office or not. They swore they heard me there.

Whoops.

(Not the first time, and probably not the last)

You draw your conclusions about people or situations, Eagle,and like everyone else, they probably aren't all that accurate. Nor do I exempt myself, just because I might not say so directly.

In my thinking, I extend the same to you. Until proven otherwise. Odds are, that would still be wrong. And vice-versa. And so on.

I will admit that I am saddened a bit, for within my notice, you have seemed to be quite pessimistic, regarding participation on this forum, for quite some time now.

[kevlar]

Thank,:o the_vast_mystery
I agrea with alot of what you said although i do have a problem with-




It may be "True" to you, but if it is not applicable to the other person calling it "Truth" is insulting because you are telling them that your idea is so uniquely correct that anything else is, by definition, untrue. But of course especially if you can't demonstrate anything more for anything you say beyond throwing more useless information out there (useless as in it does not make falsifiable claims that can be empirically verified through experimentation and observation) then you need to consider other people.


It seems your truth is information is useless unless it can be " empirically verified through experimentation and observation".This is not my truth. Is this not just the religion of science. We all know TPTW manipulate mainstream science or what you might call empirically verified through experimentation and observation.

love kevlar

[K626]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/22/1321975464129/Subatomic-neutrino-tracks-007.jpg

I/we attract the things that we want but sometimes when 'they' arrive we miss them or we forget that we initiated them. Often the things of real significance to us are very tiny events indeed, like the ghost traces of a neutrino.
The most important moments of personal 'truth' CANNOT be verifyied. :yo:


Peace

K

[kevlar]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/22/1321975464129/Subatomic-neutrino-tracks-007.jpg

I/we attract the things that we want but sometimes when 'they' arrive we miss them or we forget that we initiated them. Often the things of real significance to us are very tiny events indeed, like the ghost traces of a neutrino.
The most important moments of personal 'truth' CANNOT be verifyied. :yo:


Peace

K

When i first joined avalon you were the first person to speak to me and you said,

" Truth is constantly in flux."

I think you may be right. Thanks
love Kevlar

[Wind]

Some people in this thread seriously need this:

http://www.howtogrowbud.com/wp-content/gallery/peace-pipes/indian_with_peace_pipe1.jpg

[eileenrose]

I've might have gotten tired of David W., as a source of entertainment. And I might prefer he do more of what he was doing before this year, but that is the way it is.

Other than that, he knew the risks of starting another website devoted to channeling, giving out alien mix messages, interviewing supposed whistleblowers. He thought it was worth the over exposure. That it is his business.

But I don't have to agree with anything he says.

We probably could have two or three threads running on this guy. But, as someone accurately pointed out, most of us here don't need hero worship (or at least pretend it well) and arn't interested in being famous (or pretend not to be anyway).

Unless he messes up again this week, I'm leaving it/him alone (this matter of his fudged predictions).....and I appreciate everyone's efforts (learned some cool and not so cool things about him).

And now, this topic is diverging into how people don't like him because.... (and then each fills in the blank). And he doesn't deserve that.

[9eagle9]

Critical Carmody. The correct word is critical.

The nice thing about self empowerment is that I don't have to kiss anyone's arse or engage polite social conditioning to overlook their grievous empty words, or promises. Which is what Wilcocks' fans are demanding.

MY Optimism (which is mine to do with as I will) is reserved for the handful who realize they don't have to either.

I'm sure that handful is not relishing the Zombie Apocalypse either but at least they know its just that.






And I'm pretty sure RMorgan can convey to you an overt threat to have himself balanced by Carmody further upthread.

Did you miss that Paul?

People provide their own evidence.



I apparently missed the place where Carmody said he imposed his influence, without permission or proper motivation.

I was really pissed with a few people, a while back, in my personal life. Not this on line space.

At the same time I was ranting (burning up at a serious rate) about it, to myself, I manged to project it hard enough that they asked me later that day, if I was in the office or not. They swore they heard me there.

Whoops.

(Not the first time, and probably not the last)

You draw your conclusions about people or situations, Eagle,and like everyone else, they probably aren't all that accurate. Nor do I exempt myself, just because I might not say so directly.

In my thinking, I extend the same to you. Until proven otherwise. Odds are, that would still be wrong. And vice-versa. And so on.

I will admit that I am saddened a bit, for within my notice, you have seemed to be quite pessimistic, regarding participation on this forum, for quite some time now.

[9eagle9]

It would be hard to determine if he is a likeable person under all that false dense overly strained and over done facade he wears. I don't accept that him wearing that facade anymore than I accept anyone else wearing it because its not who they are.

Everyone wants 'Oneness' then the horrifying reality that we are all the same under the mask , and then that is when the rebellions sets in. People alternately crave Oneness and uniqueness and this is where they are driving themselves crazy struggling with these sorts of opposing core beliefs.

David makes it plain he's insecure and does not accept himself or even like himself--yet others have to.

I see this same covert self loathing and fear one's self reflected in his adherents.

That is sad, and it is disturbing and its quickly becoming a new religion.




I've might have gotten tired of David W., as a source of entertainment. And I might prefer he do more of what he was doing before this year, but that is the way it is.

Other than that, he knew the risks of starting another website devoted to channeling, giving out alien mix messages, interviewing supposed whistleblowers. He thought it was worth the over exposure. That it is his business.

But I don't have to agree with anything he says.

We probably could have two or three threads running on this guy. But, as someone accurately pointed out, most of us here don't need hero worship (or at least pretend it well) and arn't interested in being famous (or pretend not to be anyway).

Unless he messes up again this week, I'm leaving it/him alone (this matter of his fudged predictions).....and I appreciate everyone's efforts (learned some cool and not so cool things about him).

And now, this topic is diverging into how people don't like him because.... (and then each fills in the blank). And he doesn't deserve that.

[9eagle9]

A post from another thread, equally valid here me thinks.

An example of how the invisible or 'unseen' world is created. We have hard time creating with physical matter, the seen world. We can create circumstances here or situations but most of us can't wish or think a chair for instance to simply organize itself into reality. If I am attempting to manifest a chair more than likely someone will just give me one that has already been created.

But anything that we have created materially here, houses, chairs, cars, all began with a thought of some sorts. Everything we have built on earth began with a thought. "Hey I think I'll build a wooden geometric apparatus to park my butt in"

A thought is of course unseen, invisible matter so to speak.

We can take a thought and create with it in the invisible world . Ego based thoughts and emotions are empty and can be assumed by archons, to be leveraged and manipulated. This is how the act of possession is intiated. It can minor or major. Some people are just obsessed with certain thoughts and even other people can manipulate them based on their obsession, their inability to not see anything other than what they are so tightly focused on.

There is a lot of emotion attached to these thoughts that keep them anchored. This is the simple (this is not in the least complex, mind) way in how archons attach themselves via one's thoughts and feelings.

Archons themselves cannot create they only assume, possess or repeat.

So there is world we are unconsciously interacting in. It mirrors this one. What the material world does is mirror back what is going on in this unseen world.

One learns to see this unseen world by observing the material world.

Archons can also implant thoughts, and they sound alien or unnatural.

You're sitting around with friends, having a beer, laughing and suddenly you have an idea that you should go in the bathroom and hang yourself. Or jump up and strangle one of your friends.

For those who are of little inner fortitude may do just that. We read about that in the paper ALL the time. People barging into schools and shooting all the staff and the kids. This is not natural human behavior. We are pissy and imperfect but that is not naturally occurring behavior. That is someone assumed or possesed by an alien thought form and brushed off as mental disease.

For the greater amount of the population people may become scared by 'their own thought' or otherwise attempt to rationalize or resist it. Neither is a good idea but better than the first reaction.

For others who have been up Insinuation Road before they do not have a fear response, (because its 'only' a thought) and shrug the thought off as meaningless and archonic or alien. That is where its power is cut off. The thought cannot be lent credence or importance or reality. (This is how a handful of people are treating the construct that DW has assumed for himself)

If you do not get sucked into the fear thought game listening (not heeding) archonic or alien thoughts can be very revealing--about yourself anyway.

They operate always a certain way, never deviating, and they EXPECT a certain reaction from people. Which is normally fear or awe (especially awe if they are fulfilling a thought-expectation from a person to lend 'reality' to that thought. they expect awe when they appear as angels for instance)

Living people engage in archonic activity all the time. Parents posing as Santa Claus is our first exposure to archonic interplay. To make us believe something.

How this scenario going back to obsessive thoughts. Ever had a person who had a unhealthy obsessive crush on you? How exhausted you feel when they are attempting to get your energy (attention). You don't feel flattered, exhalted, uplifted or inspired you feel exhausted--energy drain. To the point some very sensitive people 'know' when the obsessed person is thinking about them. If its obsessive its probably all the time. There is a lot of artificial emotion attached to this and that too is very off putting. It's even annoying because you know the person is not coming from a place of reality.

These obsessed suitors we find often have a distorted perception of us. So when they describe what they find appealing about you , you are left puzzled because they have not described you at all. They have built an ideal about you, may even put you on a pedestal, they have constructed a false (graven) image of you; unfortunately who you are is the one that gets the energy suck until one learns how to deal with such things. Espeically exhausting because they expect you fulfill this artificially constructed person they have built in their mind and imposed on you.

And we've seen friends and family do this, get obsessed with someone. You are looking at that 'someone' and see a right girt arsehole, but the other person is on bent knee singing arias to this perfection of a person. You may even observe this someone murdering kittens in broad daylight and the obsessed person will not see it, refuse or even turn it into a virtue.

We've all seen stuff like this but is really showing us somthing deeper.

It all happens in reverse to with 'happy' thoughts. Instead of peddling fear one peddles false happiness, and promises things to make people feel good in the present . It's all false , because nothing ever happens to fulfill that promise. So obsession turns into addiction all based on something that is lacking within one's self, that an archonic energy is leveraging.

One needs their feel good fix.

You threaten to take away the drug or otherwise reveal it for a drug and there's going to be conflict. It's co-dependency. Co-dependency is a rampant epidemic in the US by the way.

That is archonic activity that happens in the unseen world mirroring itself back in the physical.

Google the word 'Tulpa' and see what one comes up with. This is a thoughtform, matter of the unseen world, that was brought to physical fullness by a individual.

[Arrowwind]

Please, do you realize that he was predicting ascension for the year 2000? Please, answer me.

For me, only the single fact that he was shouting ascension back in 2000, and still doing the same thing now, it´s already at least very suspicious and was enough for me to loose any esteem I used to have for him.

Of course, I´d love to live in a beautiful, balanced world and I´m working hard to do my part locally, but I don´t believe for a single second that it will happen magically like he claims.

In fact, claiming things like that just encourages people to be complacent and conformist, while the world is almost burning out there.

We need proactive persons, not a bunch of people waiting for ascension/rapture/return of Jesus/whatever, like it´s happening for thousands of years.

Cheers,

Raf.


I was not familiar with Wilcox back then but I clearly remember the Y2K thing. I stored food because I was uncertain that national and international industry would heed the warning to update their computers.... But they did so it became a non-event.

what was going on that made Wilcox believe ascension was at that time? For 2012 we have the Mayan thing and the end of a Kali Yuga, but for the year 2000 what as it? Y2K was all about a computer glitch, nothing sacred that I can recall.
Please tell me if you can

[RMorgan]

I was not familiar with Wilcox back then but I clearly remember the Y2K thing. I stored food because I was uncertain that national and international industry would heed the warning to update their computers.... But they did so it became a non-event.

what was going on that made Wilcox believe ascension was at that time? For 2012 we have the Mayan thing and the end of a Kali Yuga, but for the year 2000 what as it? Y2K was all about a computer glitch, nothing sacred that I can recall.
Please tell me if you can

Hey mate,

I have no clue about that.

Since I was a kid people were talking about the end of the world in the year 2000. I remember promising myself to find a girlfriend before that, because I didn´t want to die a virgin. :)

The same thing happened back in the year 1000, when many people believed that Jesus would return.

I think it has something to do with numbers, since we, humans, are always fascinated with them.

Any time there´s a pattern in numbers, people come up with a theory, like 11/11/11, 01/01/01, etc...

I just wonder what happened back in 11/11/1111...I guess nothing unusual came out of this date as well.

The zeroing of the last three digits of a year is always impressive and fascinating, since it marks the begining of a new millennium (year 1000, year 2000, etc...).

So, maybe it was all about the begining of a new millennium, but it´s just a guess.

Personally, I´m not a fan of numerology.

Maybe you should email him about that, but I doubt he would answer.

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

You were more enlightened than me I stored a keg of beer.

2000's Y2K projected the same scenario of what people have been expecting in 2012. Economic collapse, banking collapse, food shortages, rioting, shortages ,martial law to contain all of that. I worked for an internationally based trucking company at the time and our computer folk in the lab (experts on the subject) said that it was hysteria and patiently explained how, using our own comp systems, how this was an event that was not likely to happen. Programs can be overwritten.

This was a means of deflecting from reality news like the imminent warnings that a serious attack was about to made on the world's ACTUAL financial center.


The Y2K thing was started by people who knew just enough about computer programming to get themselves and everyone else stirred up. It COULD have been a problem if left unaddressed yes. But it wasn't.

Go back a few decades and remember Sky Lab where everyone on earth was about to be showered with burning shrapnel and imminent death as Sky Lab lost orbit.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

It is interesting though how our spiritual gurus claim that time is not important but then conversely start emphasizing certain dates on the calenders that mark the passage of time.





I was not familiar with Wilcox back then but I clearly remember the Y2K thing. I stored food because I was uncertain that national and international industry would heed the warning to update their computers.... But they did so it became a non-event.

what was going on that made Wilcox believe ascension was at that time? For 2012 we have the Mayan thing and the end of a Kali Yuga, but for the year 2000 what as it? Y2K was all about a computer glitch, nothing sacred that I can recall.
Please tell me if you can

Hey mate,

I have no clue about that.

Since I was a kid people were talking about the end of the world in the year 2000. I remember promising myself to find a girlfriend before that, because I didn´t want to die a virgin. :)

The same thing happened back in the year 1000, when many people believed that Jesus would return.

I think it has something to do with numbers, since we, humans, are always fascinated with them.

Any time there´s a pattern in numbers, people come up with a theory, like 11/11/11, 01/01/01, etc...

I just wonder what happened back in 11/11/1111...I guess nothing unusual came out of this date as well.

The zeroing of the last three digits of a year is always impressive and fascinating, since it marks the begining of a new millennium (year 1000, year 2000, etc...).

So, maybe it was all about the begining of a new millennium, but it´s just a guess.

Personally, I´m not a fan of numerology.

Maybe you should email him about that, but I doubt he would answer.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Arrowwind]

An example of how the invisible or 'unseen' world is created. We have hard time creating with physical matter, the seen world. We can create circumstances here or situations but most of us can't wish or think a chair for instance to simply organize itself into reality. If I am attempting to manifest a chair more than likely someone will just give me one that has already been created.
.

When too many people cant even manefest a physical chair it is hard for them to understand that they could possibly produce anything else with their thoughts and those who can manifest a chair, largely have no clue as to how it happened. And then there are those who believe that they will create a new world through their beliefs when they still cannot produce a chair, or only just one chair. Those who want to manefest a new reality of ascension and a new paradigm for humanity should best learn how to create a chair first, a job second, a sustainable neighborhood third, and equitable system of trade next, then a just legal sytem. ....

Since the thought forms around these dire issues have not brought the results we wish for as of yet, just what is it that they think think will change after 2012.... Oh yes, we will all be struck by the cosmic energy of the stars... our senses will quicken... and we will awaken. It is a nice dream but I will plodd along on my current course until that heavely day of awakening. If I am destined to be quickened then so be it... but I wonder how quickening will happen when the rudimentary laws of creation are not individually groked? ... seems like it could become a very confusing time when all this power is unleashed upon the masses who previously only wanted to sit home and play violent video games...... just wondering.

Could ascension really be possible for the masses? Do they get to by pass all the prerequisite learning? If this is so why did all the others have to struggle and suffer so for what little enlightement they have attained? guess they were all just born under a bad sign... or at least the wrong sign.

Thank you for the above post 9eagle9.

There is some merit to the idea that if you believe that a better world will come it will but still most have not the ability to create it. Belief has been the backbone of religion for ages, yet the world progresses ever so slowly. The lag time is huge, probably due to opposing forces and errors in the construction and components of belief. Two negative beliefs dont bring about a positive outcome and ultimately this is the downfall of our current state of religions. Belief is not enough. It takes an ingrained knowledge of how to work a belief and a belief cannot have an energetically opposed thought form in its way... for instance, it is believed that a man can stone his wife for perceived injustice in some religions and still go to heaven or that bombing the hell out of Iraqis will make give us a better society somehow.... or that to express love is a mortal sin.

If you want to create positively in the mental and spirit realms you cannot be possessed by any entity or thought form. You must be a free and soverign soul willing and knowing how to do your own creating, not leaving the work to others. .... hence.... as I see it no military person is a free nor soverign soul. They signed their soul over to a force outside of themselves.

As for me, just getting the chair here was a big work. ...

[SilentFeathers]

]When too many people cant even manefest a physical chair it is hard for them to understand that they could possibly produce anything else with their thoughts and those who can manifest a chair, largely have no clue as to how it happened.

I once seen Chris Angel manifest a tiger from pure thought and meditation.....but that was entertainment and the art of magic, and he does not hide who he is and that he is a magician/illusionists. The cloaked magician posing as something else is much harder to spot.

[Carmody]

Critical Carmody. The correct word is critical.

The nice thing about self empowerment is that I don't have to kiss anyone's arse or engage polite social conditioning to overlook their grievous empty words, or promises. Which is what Wilcocks' fans are demanding.

MY Optimism (which is mine to do with as I will) is reserved for the handful who realize they don't have to either.

I'm sure that handful is not relishing the Zombie Apocalypse either but at least they know its just that.






And I'm pretty sure RMorgan can convey to you an overt threat to have himself balanced by Carmody further upthread.

Did you miss that Paul?

People provide their own evidence.



I apparently missed the place where Carmody said he imposed his influence, without permission or proper motivation.

I was really pissed with a few people, a while back, in my personal life. Not this on line space.

At the same time I was ranting (burning up at a serious rate) about it, to myself, I manged to project it hard enough that they asked me later that day, if I was in the office or not. They swore they heard me there.

Whoops.

(Not the first time, and probably not the last)

You draw your conclusions about people or situations, Eagle,and like everyone else, they probably aren't all that accurate. Nor do I exempt myself, just because I might not say so directly.

In my thinking, I extend the same to you. Until proven otherwise. Odds are, that would still be wrong. And vice-versa. And so on.

I will admit that I am saddened a bit, for within my notice, you have seemed to be quite pessimistic, regarding participation on this forum, for quite some time now.

One problem is that many people like to think these 'energies' are real. But fail to take into account of how they might actually work.

For example that consciousness is part of the backdrop of reality formation.

And that their organized consciousness, as a directed force, can and will Influence David.

And thus, beneath their conscious recognition, put David in such a highlight that he is enabled by such energies... and also directed (wind blowing, or walking through moving water) into the mold of such energies. that the readers of such works are more potent and directed than the average incarnate, so this also makes a difference regarding quantity and quality of energies that are directed and thrust upon him.

David, born as a Pisces, is a bit more sensitive to this sort of energetic involvement, than many others might be. the combination of issues could then be seen to end up with being an offset that might not have happened with another given person or situation.

I'm not offering excuses, I'm offering backdrop which to ponder upon.

[9eagle9]

Snap to it folks us Pisces require special consciousness consideration right now.

Consciousness is the back drop to creating a false reality. Astrology and numerology attribute to certain levels of the psyche-that are meant to be transcended not stuck in as the 'way things operate'. Cetainly awareness passes through consciousness but also has to pass through a variety of filters along the way.

The ability to transcend it is what a handful of us are looking at here. If David has not transcended his Piscean nature then I would suggest he's a newbie at the game . Astrology along with everything else only has the importance that one attaches to it.

Trust me i had to shake off the 'Pisces are special' programming too. It only suggestive of templated consciousness and describes only a very small portion of myself and becomes meaningless and lost in the wholeness of one's entirety. Lots of trivial things get lost in the potential for limitlessness.

But hey if we are going to t be kissing folks asses because they are Pisces I invite other fish to get in line behind me to have their arses kissed and venerated as the next messiah.

Lack of greed is a hallmark of the Piscean nature after all.

It is curious in the world of advertising that the masses prescribe to that that the quintessential best friend is always portrayed of having a rather critical nature but in it is a grievous sin when it becomes an actuality in real life.


(One suggests one gets out of the myriad traps of consciousness and its filters and find one's unimpeded awareness.)

[NancyV]

If you want to create positively in the mental and spirit realms you cannot be possessed by any entity or thought form. You must be a free and soverign soul willing and knowing how to do your own creating, not leaving the work to others. .... hence.... as I see it no military person is a free nor soverign soul. They signed their soul over to a force outside of themselves.
Most everything you stated in your post above made good sense to me but I'll take issue with the part I've quoted. Have you ever signed any kind of contract, like a mortgage, a lease, an employment contract, a credit card agreement? When someone enters into the military they do NOT sign away their soul by signing that contract just as you do not sign away your soul when you sign a mortgage contract.

Military personnel are subject to some extra and different laws that are in the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) but we all are subject to county, state and federal laws that are sometimes more harsh than the UCMJ and sometimes less harsh. Having had 3 husbands and a son who were in the military I can categorically state that NONE of them sold their souls or were not sovereign beings. They did EXACTLY what they wanted to whenever they wanted to. If they followed orders it was because they CHOSE to do so. When they didn't follow orders it was also because they chose to not follow orders.

It's pretty much the same in civilian life. We choose to follow protocols and "orders" in our jobs...or not. We choose to believe parents, teachers, preachers, etc. ...or not. We all ALWAYS have a free choice. Anyone who thinks they don't have a free choice is, in my opinion, ignorant and accepting of their disempowerment and brainwashing.

If you actually knew anything about the military you would realize that just like in civilian life there are intelligent and ignorant, positive and negative, empowered and disempowered people. One thing that might be a bit different is that probably a LARGER percentage of military and former military at least have balls! (men and women both)

Besides what I've stated above one cannot "sell their soul". Even if you were to make a deal with a demon or devil to "sell your soul" for some sort of remuneration, they could only enforce the deal if you ACCEPT that the deal is valid and has authority over you. No one, no god, no demon, no human can force you to do or accept anything you choose to not accept. Sometimes there is a high price to pay for non compliance, but you always have a choice.

There are no excuses unless you are under some kind of mind control which you have absolutely no power to control.

[another bob]

Besides what I've stated above one cannot "sell their soul". Even if you were to make a deal with a demon or devil to "sell your soul" for some sort of remuneration, they could only enforce the deal if you ACCEPT that the deal is valid and has authority over you. No one, no god, no demon, no human can force you to do or accept anything you choose to not accept. Sometimes there is a high price to pay for non compliance, but you always have a choice.

Thanks for this important statement, Nancy!

[9eagle9]

Contracts and agreements are insidious things, and we make them unconsciously. Most anything requires our agreement. I find myself making them daily and then hastily reneging out of the whole matter. Stop agreeing to it. Harmless little agreements are the ones that larger ones are built from.

[Sierra]

So you wouldn't know yet mysteriously...you do.

. Plain old living breathing humans can be as parasitical as the unseen things lurking about.



Self admitting to imposing psychological influence on other's is not exactly framing you in a trustworthy light.

That is archonic manipulation on it's own.

(shrug) People can and will continue to provide their own evidence.




And I've been known to speak in other people's heads. In broad daylight. live waking situations.

What say you?

If your circle of logic is too small, your circle of view is too small, your circle of comfort is too small...you will believe what is in front of you.... and then you will find yourself corralled by someone else's larger circle of logic.

Archonic? I've never found telepathic communication to be archonic. Then again, I've never received telepathic communication from those who use dark side equipment, just from those who live in the heart. Big difference. I assume.

Sierra

Your paranoia is showing. :)

[9eagle9]

And there's nothing you can do about it is there?

[Arrowwind]

If you actually knew anything about the military you would realize that just like in civilian life there are intelligent and ignorant, positive and negative, empowered and disempowered people. One thing that might be a bit different is that probably a LARGER percentage of military and former military at least have balls! (men and women both)

Besides what I've stated above one cannot "sell their soul". Even if you were to make a deal with a demon or devil to "sell your soul" for some sort of remuneration, they could only enforce the deal if you ACCEPT that the deal is valid and has authority over you. No one, no god, no demon, no human can force you to do or accept anything you choose to not accept. Sometimes there is a high price to pay for non compliance, but you always have a choice.

There are no excuses unless you are under some kind of mind control which you have absolutely no power to control.

Balls were never anything I aspired to. ;) nor is it a prereq for ones spiritual awakening.

It is my understanding that when you enter the military you are largely at their bidding or you go to jail. Many thousands of vietnam vets would not have gone to vietnam if not forced to. They are forced to do things against their conscious choice. You can defy the military but you will pay pay pay and young men and women are not always so hot at making good decisions. Hence they became pawns in a battle that could not be won nor did it have any purpose or value to humanity. We have 56,000 dead for the effort and millions on the other side because we felt that we needed to control those we had no business controlling... and that has become clearly evidient today.

Those who were enscripted of course would not be selling their souls... but have been forced to commit their soul life to an agenda that they cannot control. Most dont have the balls to stand up to a comander and say I will not do this but some do and some have paid dearly. I am reminded of those few who stood up and refused to take toxic experimental vaccinations. At different times in our history refusal to obey would be treason and punishable by death. Now jail lingers over their heads. I have a friend who has suffered greatly from miliatary experimental vaccines for see could not SEE what was happening to her.

Many many do or die, our country is right, right or wrong, I will not think but I will do. When one has resided in such a state of "Patriotism" they have sold their soul in my estimation. .. or what I call soul life... that energy is now controlled by another.

Hence we have a military force who has detonated nuclear weapons, depeted uranium weapons, nerve gas, dispensed biological weapons to other nations, tortured people, commited illegal wars unapproved by congress, and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents known as collateral damage. Of course the largest incident of recent time is Iraq. Those people were killed for nothing that they did nor even that their nation did. It was a grand illusion to dismember Irag and gain access to Iran... our next target

By and large I would say, especially in this age of volunteerism to the military, you sell your soul when you go in and you are paid well for the job. You have little recourse to object to the overall mission, and if you do resist you will pay, as well as your family, for many are now family people and a whole family becomes at risk to maintain its integrity. Even if you are just a paper pusher you participate in the larger agenda of "imperialism" and the current trend to spread democracy amongst people who dont want it and in that project you particpate in killing hundreds of thousands of innocents... so yes, I do say that most sell their soul to belief system that is not working, to be controlled by a force outside of themselves.

You do largely what you are told in the military and if you resist in principle you are punished. God knows I have known a few who have sat in jail because they could not sell their soul any further. I have known others who have feigned insanity to get out from under the the dark force that would have them do their evil bidding.

Posession is when another controls you either through fear, financial payment, false senses of loyality (which is often based on lies), brainwashing, or your own inablity to think things through. ... and I would say that many of our military suffer from the inability to think things through (I doubt that many of them can actuallys SEE for if they could they would not be there in the first place). You can consciously choose to be possessed but I would estimate that most do not make such decisions fully aware of all the consequences, for they are not fully awake, nor likely even close to it.

There will be no more war when young people are intelligent enough to realize that war cures nothing. As long as the masses believe in war there will be war. In order for a shift to occur it will take an awakening. For sure, if the miliatary didn't pay so dam well these days many of the unthinking would not be choosing it. They create a lot of karma for themselves. Paid soilders are called mercenaries and that is what we have these days. Long gone are the militia and freedom thinkers that founded our nation in revolution against those who would have imprisoned and taxed us to death.

It is my understanding that there are some very good people in the military who are trying to make things right and who do know and do SEE but I surely dont see how it is possible short of a miliatry coup for our military are under the control of a corrupt government. I wish them success in whatever way they can make changes either large or small.

Support www.oathkeepers.org (http://www.oathkeepers.org)

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

I don´t want to sound boring, but wouldn´t it be better if we could go back to the topic?

:focus:

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

David recently made a prediction that guns and other machines of war were no longer firing.

I rode past the shooting range yesterday and heard the report of several rifles and hand guns.

Due to my paranoia of course and nothing to do with yet another failed prediction.

[SilentFeathers]

Hey folks,

I don´t want to sound boring, but wouldn´t it be better if we could go back to the topic?

:focus:

Cheers,

Raf.

Perhaps the thread has run it's course? :rapture:


Added: I'll be back to see what's up here at this thread on January 1st, 2013.... :)

[the_vast_mystery]

Thank,:o the_vast_mystery
I agrea with alot of what you said although i do have a problem with-

It seems your truth is information is useless unless it can be " empirically verified through experimentation and observation".This is not my truth. Is this not just the religion of science. We all know TPTW manipulate mainstream science or what you might call empirically verified through experimentation and observation.

love kevlar

Scientism says that mainstream materialistic science is all there is. I never said this, I just claim what the scientific method has always claimed. That, if when followed properly, it can be assumed to come to the most correct possible conclusion given all available data. This does not mean it is the sole source of truth but what you need to recognize are how these words are used. Truth is considered to be universal and that means that anything you believe, if you cannot demonstrate it to someone else, you're doing everyone involved a disservice. Because now you've stepped into the same territory as a million different hucksters, charlatans, and con men who all had some agenda to sell people on a lie. If you can't demonstrate how your truth is in any way more valid and correct than that of a snake oil salesman then please do not be alarmed when people regard it exactly as such. You are throwing words around, those words may reflect your belief but your belief does not need to in any way affect anyone other then yourself. If you wish to consider it your personal truth, then that's fine, but why share it? If you feel compelled to bring up your beliefs and tell others they should consider following them then you'll need to make a lot better of a case for them than "It's the truth, because I say so!"

And this is where empirical verification comes in. If anything you say applies to anyone other than yourself then you should be able to demonstratively prove it to whomever you're talking to. If you can't? Well, again, you're really not going to come off looking any better than a used car salesman saying "trust me" on the price. Maybe in an ideal world this would not have to be the case, but in this real world of lies it certainly is. We're bombarded every hour with advertisements, propaganda and manipulations of all kinds. For someone to establish themselves as any kind of a trusted authority they need to show why it is they should be trusted. Namely, by proving that what they have to say really does have an effect on the world and isn't them just making up a story. Refusing to acknowledge that this is how it will come across, or getting upset that people do not immediately believe you won't get anyone anywhere; it would be a much better idea to consider why people will not believe you and then work to address that why.

Just my two cents. :)

[9eagle9]

Or some self admission from David's blog ;


Every heard of someone who just doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

There are those who haven't a clue to what they are actually saying or admitting too.

Its simple. When someone starts unraveling a bunch of drain brain interrupt them and ask them to speak from subconcious and they'll blip right over there. Try it sometime when someone is unloading a bunch of bull**** on you, interrupt and very authoritatively (the important part) speak from the subconscious and they'll go right there.

Sometimes it happens spontaneously.


PERSONAL CONTACT

Within less than a year of intensely studying the Law of One material, I received personal contact from what appeared to be the same source -- filtered through my own "personality distortions."

(something btw way CLEAR (clair) psychics are less inclined to have, there' is a reason why such people are known as clairaudients, and clairvoyants.)

On November 10, 1996, I began speaking the words that naturally appeared in my mind as I went into deep states of meditation and followed the established scientific protocols of remote viewing. (David admits to using a program to view with, and at this point in my career as an ex-programmer I don't have to explain what the first means--particuarly those who have an authentic event of this nature.

The results were spectacular to say the least. Over and over again (programs run on repetition) , I had prophetic statements come through that later proved to be startlingly accurate.


(Really when? Now we are on topic again)


Achieving full verbal contact with your "Higher Self" is not an easy process, but it is entirely achievable if you understand the techniques involved. Unfortunately, most remote-viewing schools charge thousands of dollars to bring you up to speed.

(Btw your actual higher self doesn't charge a penny )


Although I hesitated for many years in doing this, I have now revealed everything I have to share about how I perfected my own technique, at a nominal cost -- in the Access Your Higher Self video series.

Access YOUR Higher Self through David's technique-- a series of sublimating visual events that are occurring externally of you. You just might not find YOUR higherself there. I guarantee you will find 'something' there.

I sure hope that nominal cost includes all his distorted personality filters too. Just wouldn't work without them.



Much like learning to play a musical instrument, you have to go through some basic, repetitive exercises before you get quality results -- but ultimately, we all have this gift, and no special aptitude or skill is required.

Quality programming takes time. No special aptitude or skill is required but his Video is!

[K626]

The paradigm shift from where I'm sitting is pretty clear.

There has been a methodical and pre-programmed shift (by the elite) away from the old gods (Christianity and so on..) to a NEW HIGHER POWER.

What exactly this is, is slowly being revealed to us in doses wether it be exxtraterrestial 'gods' (creating man by manipulation) or some kind of universal consciousness or quasi-determisnism (truth handed down where we are below and they/IT are ABOVE).

The reason for this pre-meditated and long time in the making shift is that the 'old gods' have run their course (and if they haven't - Islam - the Illuminati are at war with them).

A totally new paradigm and belief system is being laid down and this permeates all sides of the information stream inc the alternative media (who have a significant role to play).

The LOCUS is being re-written because a NEW PARADIGM OF POWER is being readied which will require us to think in other ways (maybe less compassionate, maybe less ethical). The drum of a planet wide ecological crisis is in tune with this and that IS DESIGNED TO make us accept drastic action (we can only imagine what they have in store).

Money is being slowly dispensed with and the money system will be collapsed. ALL THESE THINGS are being timed to work in unison.

The war for our minds has already started because it is well known that what we think and project will be key to the success of the NEW LORDS.

I am 100% sure that we are nearing such a time.

We need to choose carefully and we need to be FULLY AWARE OF WHO WE REALLY ARE.

This for me is where the likes of DW and ICKE come into their own ie that the body is a spiritual temporal vehicle which has many locked in mystical and multi-dimensional abilites.

THIS RUNS SLAM BANG COUNTER AGAINST the thinking that is being filtered down, that the body is some kind of perpetually updatable MACHINE ( I know THEY are keen to deliver an new machine) and in that Darwinian and ET tinkered sense it is NOT PART OF THE ALL (creative universe and chance) but expendable and not fully our domain (it has been engineered and given to us). It is somehow NOT US:we are the result of experiments.

There is massive and important difference here as the spiritual and universal light body is beyond the tampering of any advanced intelligence as it is PART OF THE ALL.

Peace

K

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

So, to summarize, we have some major evidences that might lead to the conclusion that David Wilcock is a fraud.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Evidence N°1:

David Wilcock used to have a website called ascension2000.com, which was about predictions and claims indicating that an event of mass ascension* would happen back in the year 2000.

source: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=494895&viewfull=1#post494895

Of course, it never happened.

Evidence N°2:

David Wilcock claims, in several documents and lectures, including his own website and his documentary, 2012 The Enigma, that he´s Edgar Cayce´s reincarnation.

For him, this is a key point of his career and he uses it to increase his credibility all the time. He even wrote a book about it.

However, the Edgar Cayce´s A.R.E , Association for Research and Enlightenment, founded by Edgar Cayce´s family members, strongly deny this claim.

"All of this said, frequently individuals have still been so convinced that they are either the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce or in communication with him, that we have often asked them to respond to several questions that only Edgar Cayce would know the answer to. At this point in time, no one has ever answered any of the questions correctly."

So, they´ve made several questions and no one could answer a single one correctly.

source: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=494941&viewfull=1#post494941

Also, in his book,called "The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce" (http://www.amazon.com/Reincarnation-Edgar-Cayce-Interdimensional-Transformation/dp/1583940839) , David Wilcock claimed that A.R.E confirmed that he was Edgar Cayce´s reincarnation, which is obviously a lie.

Here´the link for the book:

http://books.google.com.br/books?id=s8kRFCW3KwYC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=%22Association+for+Research+and+Enlightenment%22+david+wilcock&source=bl&ots=KBK7jhdXWh&sig=YN-vwIYEK5rLtRr3o5h0Fc47nqI&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ei=hdy_T4OqNIea9gT8l_nACw&ved=0CGUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22Association%20for%20Research%20and%20Enlightenment%22%20david%20wilcock&f=false


Evidence N°3:

Along this thread, there are many reports of David Wilcock´s failed predictions. Feel free to look around.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, the above evidences are strong enough to achieve a final conclusion about this character.

However, the fundamental evidence, to finally conclude with absolute certainty, that this individual is a fraud, will come next year.

In several of his lectures, books and his documentary, he says that mass ascension will happen by the end of 2012 or shortly after it.

In fact, the basic structure and foundation of a huge part his work is based on the idea of 2012 ascension or extraordinary events.

*According to his own definition, ascension is:

"That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!"

When next year begins and nothing similar to his description of ascension happens, all of us would have no other logical choice but to accept that this character, David Wilcock, is indeed a fraud.

Now, about his motivations, it´s impossible to make a solid and fair conclusion.

He might have been manipulated by malevolent sources, he might simply be delusional (which means he actually might believe his claims) or he might be deliberately lying for any personal purpose.

Cheers,

Raf.

[araucaria]

Rmorgan, you are obviously not a fan of David Wilcock. You are trying to turn DW into your fan!

You see, there are more things than what you're thinking that can hit fans...

What if manure does? You produce a very fertile garden :)

[mab777]

hi RMorgan,
great work. I agree with you.
Half-truth is very hard to show ... is always a trap.

[9eagle9]

Whatever evidence has been compiled is not so much about David Wilcocks but pretty much should at least convey to DW adherents that perhaps we have a valid and EVIDENTIAL reason for not trusting what he has to say based right there for the eye to see. No mysterious cabal is hiding it much of this comes from him. These are his failures so

He's either wrong.

Or something is misleading him.

There's a practical side of this that can't be ahem be deemed paranoia and there's the emotionally driven side of it exhibited by Wilcock's devotees who behave as if their crack supply is about to be taken away or their favorite toy.

I'd suggest there isn't a person among that wouldn't like to believe his claims are true...but they aren't. Insisting they are doesn't change the fact or our current reality. If they were something would have changed. And it hasn't.

David brings a lot of really inspiring information. The intention of the information IS coming to pass and always has--its meant to keep people waiting for what could be initiated now.

Really no different than a 20 year old who insists on playing with Tonka trucks rather than going out and getting their driver's license.

[Arrowwind]

Whatever evidence has been compiled is not so much about David Wilcocks but pretty much should at least convey to DW adherents that perhaps we have a valid and EVIDENTIAL reason for not trusting what he has to say based right there for the eye to see. No mysterious cabal is hiding it much of this comes from him. These are his failures so

He's either wrong.

Or something is misleading him.

.

and much of what he says he claims to come from his dreams or channelled sources or from people who use such sources to back up their claims.

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

My whole purpose in this thread is not to debunk David Wilcock himself.

In my opinion, he´s just an archetype of a character that is very common and recurrent in the alternative media scenario.

These archetypal characters always show the same type of behavior, same psychological profile, the same objectives, the same strategies and the same possible motivations.

Once you learn to identify this archetype, you become a very good detective.

All I want is to make people question more! The more you question, the bigger the chances you have to acquire true, clear knowledge.

We´re bombarded with such a huge quantity of information everyday, that we all must learn fortify our filters!

This thread is a great example of it!

If some information is genuinely honest, the more you question, the more you become fascinated with its honest aspects, its genuineness and beauty.

If some information just appears to be honest, the more you question, the more you find out that your interpretation was wrong and that the information is not reliable.

You know, people must learn to be less naive. Don´t buy into any info just because it "resonates" with you or just because it´s saying exactly what you want to listen...

Consider every bit of information but, before simply incorporating it into your belief system, investigate it as strongly as possible.

Only then, after an extensive investigation, if this information still appear to be genuine and rich, incorporate it into your knowledge base.

Information is the real weapon of mass destruction. It has the power to reveal the truth, but it often can lead you to live just a beautiful lie.

That´s all.

Cheers,

Raf.

[K626]

Hey folks,

My whole purpose in this thread is not to debunk David Wilcock himself.

In my opinion, he´s just an archetype of a character that is very common and recurrent in the alternative media scenario.

These archetypal characters always show the same type of behavior, same psychological profile, the same objectives, the same strategies and the same possible motivations.

Once you learn to identify this archetype, you become a very good detective.

All I want is to make people question more! The more you question, the bigger the chances you have to acquire true, clear knowledge.

We´re bombarded with such a huge quantity of information everyday, that we all must learn fortify our filters!

This thread is a great example of it!

If some information is genuinely honest, the more you question, the more you become fascinated with its honest aspects, its genuineness and beauty.

If some information just appears to be honest, the more you question, the more you find out that your interpretation was wrong and that the information is not reliable.

That´s all.

Cheers,

Raf.

He's and archetype alright but I wouldn't limit it to the alternative media. He's an archetype of a classic explorer/shamen that occurs right through human history...He himself might not even realise that. I agree with you in the sense that he is overeaching but I wouldn't go as far to say that this means he is at heart disingenous.

Peace

K

[9eagle9]

No its not really necessary to debunk someone who is so busily doing it themselves.

David Wilcocks shoots himself in the foot after stuffing his foot in his mouth, and those who observe this are guilty of some vague crime.

This is what our world we want?

Remember Sylvia Browne who was so popular back in the 90's. She achieved critical acclaim as a accurate psychic when she interacted with people on a personal level. People give personal testimonry that is of a convincing nature that she contributed greatly to their life as a life coach.

Then she began pumping out tons of information and material of a more globalistic level involving herself in politics , etc, and explaining the mechanics of life and death and after life and she began to tank miserably in accuracy, most of her predictions failed and so on and so forth.

Sylvia Browne had an interesting way of confronting her personal failures and candidly admitting to them. Her failure which I have no idea if she' has noticed is that she got away from personal workings of an individuals psyche where she was so successful and into the whole global aspect of things where things become least predictable for a variety of reasons.

This was prompted, as one who observed her closely, by what I call the "Okay paradigm'.

If one watches any of her numerous old shows, she became very mainstream for a while, one will observe she was posed with the same questions after a lecture that mostly centered around how and why people were okay after they died.

Only to be confronted repeatedly with an entire audience of people asking her after her lecture on how everyone is okay after they died..... "Is my dad, mother, uncle, child, aunt, cousin okay?"

One could easily read the expression on her face and her titanic effort of restraint as she once again, for the one zillionth time, assured the querent that indeed their brother, uncle, cousin, Aunt Zelda was okay (it didn't suffice that she had written dozens of books and given thousands of lectures that people were okay after they died.

Her shows got quite dull after awhile (which re-emphasizes my notion that its not the guru who digs their grave but their fans) because most of the Q & A involved only "Is so and so okay?"

The point is not who or what is okay after they died but how the dynamics of her career as a psychic plunged. Her audience wanted MORE than reassurance that someone was okay after they died. Apparently this is a comfort thought, and its self gratification quality only lasts so long as instant self gratification tends to be a fleeting thing.

So she was compelled to go into places she wasn't really qualified to go into--doing it for the wrong reasons. Sold herself out ....but if her fans had not been so discontent with "Okay" then perhaps she would not have felt compelled to go where she was not quite able navigate.

Still because she was so candid in her shortcomings, and she's a crusty auld sow . and in spite of the fact her philosophies are full of obviated holes, I have some admiration for her for the time she held her ground against the sheep before caving in to consumer demand a beast that is insatiable.

I do hold a modicum of compassion for DW. Less so for his fans.

It does not pay to help people in the end. They will destroy you. Or at convince you, to destroy yourself.

[RMorgan]

Hey K626,

If I remember correctly, I think William Blake once said something like this:

"The waters where the wise man swims, are the same waters where the madman drowns." (free interpretation from memory).

Both the wise man/innovator and the madman/delusional share so many common characteristics.

That´s why it´s so hard to distinguish from one another.

This is the reason we must not rely just on appearances and claims.

We must always analyze the facts and evidences.

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

Clearly there's an ascension process at work.

We have seen one occur at the start of every new age, 2000, 1000, etc. There are observable episodes of eras of consciousness shifting--ego overgrowth. Some are pretty obvious, the Crusades, Inquistion, Burning Times.

People never question what is becoming Ascendant.

The ego.

This is another episode of mass ego overgrowth, the folks who claim to be so finely tuned into the Fall of Atlantis or claim to be Atlanteans skim over this in a vague way even though the Fall of Atlantis seems to be of some dire imporant to humans in the present, they fail to express coherently that the Fall of Atlantis was caused by one of these consciousness shifts (which everything 'thinks' is a happy-dappy event ) which is merely pleasing window dressing and dross to where no one can see the overgrowth of the ego. The Ascendancy of Atlantis swelled on a tide and fell on the ego overgrowth because Atlanteans become progressively more passive in the that last great New Age religion --waiting for something to happen.

Every account that peple have given about Atlantis pretty much conveys the same thing.

Ego overgrowth of course will make you passive and static as much as it makes one arrogant and controlling.

Cayce has attempted to convey this, being a simple man he perhaps did not convey it well enough, but that too is something the ptb is desperate to hide. That all this new age boool**** is overgrowth of the ego.

So yes I agree there is a great ascension process going on. What some think they are ascending into they've never paused to question because some one gave them the answer pre --emptively.

Never once in this forum have I heard any of the love and light and ascension pushers examine or question what they could be ascending into.

Not once. They just accept it like tainted candy from a stranger.

[RMorgan]

Hey 9eagle9,

In my opinion, and excuse me going a little bit off-topic, "mass ascension" is just a fancy expression for "we´re all going to die".

I think we may ascend when we die, or, depending on your religious belief, descend. ;)

Raf.

[9eagle9]

Leaving a dense physical body behind would certainly make one lighter, or ascendant.

What happens after that would be anyone guess and dependent on how much work they put into cleaning out the inner landscape whilst here.

A non physical body can be dense too.

If one's unconscious beliefs and emotions were weighing them down , and limiting them while alive, it seems reasonable to expect they won't be doing much good after the physical body expires.

[write4change]

The paradigm shift from where I'm sitting is pretty clear.

There has been a methodical and pre-programmed shift (by the elite) away from the old gods (Christianity and so on..) to a NEW HIGHER POWER.

What exactly this is, is slowly being revealed to us in doses wether it be exxtraterrestial 'gods' (creating man by manipulation) or some kind of universal consciousness or quasi-determisnism (truth handed down where we are below and they/IT are ABOVE).

The reason for this pre-meditated and long time in the making shift is that the 'old gods' have run their course (and if they haven't - Islam - the Illuminati are at war with them).

A totally new paradigm and belief system is being laid down and this permeates all sides of the information stream inc the alternative media (who have a significant role to play).

The LOCUS is being re-written because a NEW PARADIGM OF POWER is being readied which will require us to think in other ways (maybe less compassionate, maybe less ethical). The drum of a planet wide ecological crisis is in tune with this and that IS DESIGNED TO make us accept drastic action (we can only imagine what they have in store).

Money is being slowly dispensed with and the money system will be collapsed. ALL THESE THINGS are being timed to work in unison.

The war for our minds has already started because it is well known that what we think and project will be key to the success of the NEW LORDS.

I am 100% sure that we are nearing such a time.

We need to choose carefully and we need to be FULLY AWARE OF WHO WE REALLY ARE.

This for me is where the likes of DW and ICKE come into their own ie that the body is a spiritual temporal vehicle which has many locked in mystical and multi-dimensional abilites.

THIS RUNS SLAM BANG COUNTER AGAINST the thinking that is being filtered down, that the body is some kind of perpetually updatable MACHINE ( I know THEY are keen to deliver an new machine) and in that Darwinian and ET tinkered sense it is NOT PART OF THE ALL (creative universe and chance) but expendable and not fully our domain (it has been engineered and given to us). It is somehow NOT US:we are the result of experiments.

There is massive and important difference here as the spiritual and universal light body is beyond the tampering of any advanced intelligence as it is PART OF THE ALL.

Peace

K

The best awareness that fits my personal understanding so far. Thanks for posting this.

[9eagle9]

David suffers from the same thing that affects most everyone who don't do the deep inner work. Lack of maturity. It's all a disco get up and dance. Granted he's an intelligent man but how does such an intelligent person come as so idiotic?

If he'd gotten up and danced when he received his death threat I'd be more impressed. No party then.

An epidemic case of prattling self indulgence that falls apart and fails one self with the going gets tuff.

I see it everyday off the alt media, at work, in line at a store, wherever. Its not a spiritual ailment; its a social one.

[Arrowwind]

There is massive and important difference here as the spiritual and universal light body is beyond the tampering of any advanced intelligence as it is PART OF THE ALL.

Peace

K

I would like to see some validation of this. Is not the physical body a part of the all? Is not mother earth a part of the all?
although the spiritual body is of a much finer material and likely moves in other dimensions I see no evidence that it cannot be tampered with. I have seen no evidence that people who have moved on via death are safe from their own ill thoughts and brainwashing or by imposition upon them from others just because they are dead and in a spirit form. I do not assume that becasue one is dead that they are invincible, but contrary. they are now subject to whole new realms of possibilities that can include difficulties. What exactly do you base your statement on? Is it more than wishful thinking?

[K626]

Hey K626,

If I remember correctly, I think William Blake once said something like this:

"The waters where the wise man swims, are the same waters where the madman drowns." (free interpretation from memory).

Both the wise man/innovator and the madman/delusional share so many common characteristics.

That´s why it´s so hard to distinguish from one another.

This is the reason we must not rely just on appearances and claims.

We must always analyze the facts and evidences.

Cheers,

Raf.

It's important to let people be what they are and give them space. There isn't a single innovator or 'genius' out there who isn't ' part mad'.

As I've said before DW over-reaches and he is a bit of a showman, but there are also things he says that gets me thinking about things perhaps in a slightly different way. For me that is probably enough. Even a perfect society has need for a 'joker'...Who else can hold 'the mirror'? ;)

peace

K

[RMorgan]

Hey K626,

I have nothing against jokers, in fact, I´m a joker sometimes.

However, he´s not a joker, he´s probably a delusional man who is lying to others, either deliberately or not.

He doesn´t over-reaches sometimes; the most part of his original work´s foundation is based on lies.

The very construction of his public personality is based on lies.

Despite being an excellent researcher, the interesting part of his work is mostly made of collected theories that don´t even belong to him.

It´s all there in this thread.

I´m not sure if you´ve read this whole thread, but I would advice you to do so, if you want to investigate this subject further.

He´s lying to himself and he´s lying to others as well.

This is my opinion.

Cheers,

Raf.

[K626]

There is massive and important difference here as the spiritual and universal light body is beyond the tampering of any advanced intelligence as it is PART OF THE ALL.

Peace

K

I would like to see some validation of this. Is not the physical body a part of the all? Is not mother earth a part of the all?
although the spiritual body is of a much finer material and likely moves in other dimensions I see no evidence that it cannot be tampered with. I have seen no evidence that people who have moved on via death are safe from their own ill thoughts and brainwashing or by imposition upon them from others just because they are dead and in a spirit form. I do not assume that becasue one is dead that they are invincible, but contrary. they are now subject to whole new realms of possibilities that can include difficulties. What exactly do you base your statement on? Is it more than wishful thinking?







The spiritual body is infinite and outside of time. There is no 'time' in the universe. But let's not get into that. ;)

peace

K

[K626]

Hey K626,

I have nothing against jokers, in fact, I´m a joker sometimes.

However, he´s not a joker, he´s probably a delusional man who is lying to others, either deliberately or not.

He doesn´t over-reaches sometimes; the most part of his original work´s foundation is based on lies.

The very construction of his public personality is based on lies.

Despite being an excellent researcher, the interesting part of his work is mostly made of collected theories that don´t even belong to him.

It´s all there in this thread.

I´m not sure if you´ve read this whole thread, but I would advice you to do so, if you want to investigate this subject further.

He´s lying to himself and he´s lying to others as well.

This is my opinion.

Cheers,

Raf.

I understand your motivation for the thread so don't worry. And I agree partly with your premise.

When I say mirror I mean there is a lot of DW in ALL OF US. So go easy on casting those rocks bro you might hit me or yourself for that matter. ;)


peace

K

[the_vast_mystery]

I understand your motivation for the thread so don't worry. And I agree partly with your premise.

When I say mirror I mean there is a lot of DW in ALL OF US. So go easy on casting those rocks bro you might hit me or yourself for that matter. ;)


peace

K

I hate to be harsh, but this response is absolutely infantile. Do you disagree? Say why so it can be discussed? Do you not want to have that discussion? Then don't speak up in defense in the first place. Either you are agreeing to a discussion where you both are attempting to get to the bottom of a given subject (synonymous with the both of you reaching consensus on the subject) or you are here to cheer lead for your side; which is it? Just because David Wilcock might be a fraud or may just be ego-filled doesn't necessarily mean everything he says is wrong either. Source Field investigations first amazed me and it was all a smoke screen for the fact that about anything else he puts out isn't based on anything close to the amount of data he put there. (Although in his case it reads more like he's using data to build a narrative which sadly reeks of confirmation bias.)

Yes, we all have a bit of David Wilcock in us, I even admitted as much earlier in this thread and admitted to why I myself for a time was cheerleading myself for him. Then it dawned on me one of the most classic tricks used by a huckster, they'll take something very true and twist it to suit their own agenda. For a lie to be convincing, some part of it must be true or at least reflect what we really want to be true. So hucksters parlay trust built in one area into another, the most relevant modern-day example are the so-called "Creation Scientists" who actually have degrees in entirely unrelated areas, such as the humanities, making poor biological or geological arguments for creationism or intelligent design. These people are absolutely intelligent and brilliant in one area, but they are completely unfit to speak about the subject at hand, yet they parlay your trust in them and their credentials to push a lot of unfalsifiable BS onto you.

So don't be caught up in thinking it's so either/or regarding some of the subjects David Wilcock is talking about. Rather, try to see him as a person, like any other with an Agenda (we all have agendas.) Once you have a clear enough idea what his agenda is you can try to begin figuring out his motivations behind publishing X or Y. From there you can begin to see more clearly, what his claims are likely to represent. I say likely, because unfortunately no one really knows 100% of what lies in another person's mind for sure. I've even been able to confound so-called "psychics" myself. No one has ever completely been able to read me in all situations and by that I would say it's safe for us to assume this generally maintains true for us all; we are at times varying degrees of predictable and unpredictable.

Next time you want to accuse someone of unjustly casting stones though you should actually say why what they're doing equivocates to that so that it can be discussed until a better, more accurate way of phrasing the given material can be found between us. But we cannot refrain from any judgement, then it would be impossible to decide anything if we are not willing to set standards for what is probably true and what is probably not. We're still real people and need to make real decisions given what we can reasonably understand to be true, so it is paramount to figure out what information is correct and what is not. This means figuring out a speaker's motivations, even if they might tread into unsavory territory, must be done so that their teachings may be understood more clearly for what they are. If you disagree with the evaluations given though you can't just say "Nuh-uh! My super special feelings say this! So I'm going to call you wrong and then hide under the cloak of civility when you point out I've placed myself and anything I say beyond reproach!" It does not come off very well.

And believe me when I say that I do stupid things too, hell I just abruptly ended an emotion-filled debate in another thread a few days ago rather than continue it because I came to my own conclusion it would do nothing but yield more animosity. It still wasn't particularly fair to the other person in the thread, but here I am admitting to my own stupid behavior to make the point that no I am not immune from it either. That does not mean that I should not still try to act better in the future and similarly that does not mean that people like David Wilcock shouldn't try to clear this entire mess up with a humble understanding of why we currently have come to these conclusions. If they are entirely incorrect, it should be easy enough to demonstrate.

[Wind]

It seems that many people even in here are too dissapointed too many times? Afraid? I guess seeing really is believing... At least for some. Only time will tell.

Now to DW, since this thread is about him or his credibility. I think he is flawed as a human like most of us are. I give him credit for all the info he has gathered, I really don't care about his persona. I often have not believed some of his stuff, but then again sometimes his info has been amazing. I don't know if hes really Edgar Cayce reincarnated, he may be or not. It really doesn't not matter, at least not to me. I understand that many people have messiah complexes, but does it make them bad human beings? I try to undestand them, not judge. He has helped many people to realize their full potential and that is a fact.

[the_vast_mystery]

s
It seems that many people even in here are too dissapointed too many times? Afraid? I guess seeing really is believing... At least for some. Only time will tell.

Now to DW, since this thread is about him or his credibility. I think he is flawed as a human like most of us are. I give him credit for all the info he has gathered, I really don't care about his persona. I often have not believed some of his stuff, but then again sometimes his info has been amazing. I don't know if hes really Edgar Cayce reincarnated, he may be or not. It really doesn't not matter, at least not te me. I understand that many people have messiah complexes, but does it make them bad human beings? I try to undestand them, not judge. He has helped many people to realize their full potential and that is a fact.

There's a difference between pronouncing a judgement on him as a whole person and observing and interpreting his actions to establish the motive behind them on a case by case basis. Personal judgement is definitely a bad idea as it suggests one is incapable of admitting to their faults and changing. However we must do our best to understand fully the meanings of actions to decide whether or not we should trust his information and that is very much rendering judgement. In that tense it becomes indistinguishable from choosing one's preference, such as deciding whether or not you prefer to be kicked hard in your nether regions, or if perhaps something softer and less jarring is what you'd like. It is a personal choice to decide whether or not you feel like anything he says is worth accepting.

However, many of us choose to use the best tools for evaluation of claims we have available and that includes evaluating past behavior to see how well he's fared. So far he evidences being very unable to admit to his faults and handle criticisms gracefully, his moderation staff regularly screen his comments and only post snarky responses to the easy to snipe-at ones (I should know, I've submitted some which were just flat-out not aired despite being ten times as civil as some of the drivel that gets posted there usually with the moderator sniping back at them.) We chose to do this, because we can easily look back at the history of how we've all been lied to collectively to learn the lessons from that as to what signs may be shown by someone who is attempting to push their own ego instead of the truth.

Has he opened people's eyes? Absolutely! But especially if he's serious, and especially if he or his moderators were to read this thread, then he should take this as a sign that if he wants to continue he has to come completely clean and not let this BS clog up any serious work he has to do. If he's here to really help for our betterment then he's first got to do his due diligence in housekeeping and resolve what happened before so that there will be no more "He said, she said" drama over whether or not he is who or what he says he is. I do not give anyone a free pass, not myself, and certainly not anyone else.

People are free to believe whoever and whatever they want to believe, just as people are free to decide they love being kicked in the nethers for fun. In the end it all equals choice, but I'd sure like to see our language get more cleaned up so we actually explain these choices clearly for what they are rather than insisting on some silly universal equivalence that prevents people from making their own decisions about whether or not they consider these signs a serious risk of being lied to, as well as whether they're willing to take that risk of being lied to, quite possibly to a very high degree, by someone.

For some of us, the truth need its own criminal defense Attorney to advocate for it. It's just a side-effect of living in a world of such universal deceit. ^_^;;

[9eagle9]

It doesn't make them bad humans it make them poor spiritual leaders.



It seems that many people even in here are too dissapointed too many times? Afraid? I guess seeing really is believing... At least for some. Only time will tell.

Now to DW, since this thread is about him or his credibility. I think he is flawed as a human like most of us are. I give him credit for all the info he has gathered, I really don't care about his persona. I often have not believed some of his stuff, but then again sometimes his info has been amazing. I don't know if hes really Edgar Cayce reincarnated, he may be or not. It really doesn't not matter, at least not te me. I understand that many people have messiah complexes, but does it make them bad human beings? I try to undestand them, not judge. He has helped many people to realize their full potential and that is a fact.

[seigiarchon]

It doesn't make them bad humans it make them poor spiritual leaders.

True spiritual leaders have very little human flaws.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

True spiritual leaders have very little human flaws.

This is not in the least bit true. This is an idea that you have, but it is not reality.

[9eagle9]

Conversely there's very few true spiritual leaders.

[Wind]

It doesn't make them bad humans it make them poor spiritual leaders.

Is he supposed to be a spiritual leader? I certainly don't need one.

[9eagle9]

Typically its the adherents that make the guru. Without the adherents there would be no one to follow.

Its better described as people who are really on meaningful path are open to guiding (not doing one's work for them)and they are not really interested in having multitude of flock around them. The ego is fed by that certainly. People who find validation through the flattery of others.

For those on an inspired search of SELF realization its a challenge to keep up with one's own work and one finds having to do the work for others exhausting. Even in relationships where one party is on a path of self realization and the other is not , becomes wearing. Sometimes the relations endures it somehow, and many times it doesnt' . Its just too exhausting to drag others along with you and that's not what self realization is for.

And the flattery and adoration of others is put in it's proper perspective.






It doesn't make them bad humans it make them poor spiritual leaders.

Is he supposed to be a spiritual leader? Because I certainly don't need one.

[9eagle9]

Well people who are equipped to be spiritual leaders tend to be less fussed with the usual idiocy humans involve themselves in and find all new foibles and potholes to blunder into while in the process of self actualization. Twenty years ago I didn't have to weight my actions and examine my thoughts as I have to now so we are affirmed that this new age has brought in a whole new spotlight on "ignorance is bliss."

That seems reasonable given that expanding human potential also expands the opportunity to walk into something you have no idea how to navigate.







True spiritual leaders have very little human flaws.

This is not in the least bit true. This is an idea that you have, but it is not reality.

[jorr lundstrom]

If anyone want try being a spiritual leader for me, he/ she is welcome

to give it a try. It sure wouldnt be boring. We could start trying to

figure out where I am. LOL It certainly would end with two humans

being astray, instead of only me. LOL


All is well


Jorr

[jorr lundstrom]

It doesn't make them bad humans it make them poor spiritual leaders.

True spiritual leaders have very little human flaws.


Ahhh segiarchon, here we got an archontic conclusion. LOL


All is well


Jorr

[SilentFeathers]

First need to be a spiritual leader of the self before being able to spiritually lead, heal, or help others successfully, very few are that balanced and centered/grounded to fit that glove....

[jorr lundstrom]

First need to be a spiritual leader of the self before being able to spiritually lead, heal, or help others successfully, very few are that balanced and centered/grounded to fit that glove....


Yes, I suppose it could be hard to snatch the things people are

playing with, watching their despair when they have nothing to

cling to. ROFLOL


All is well


Jorr

[K626]

I understand your motivation for the thread so don't worry. And I agree partly with your premise.

When I say mirror I mean there is a lot of DW in ALL OF US. So go easy on casting those rocks bro you might hit me or yourself for that matter. ;)


peace

K

I hate to be harsh, but this response is absolutely infantile. Do you disagree? Say why so it can be discussed? Do you not want to have that discussion? Then don't speak up in defense in the first place. Either you are agreeing to a discussion where you both are attempting to get to the bottom of a given subject (synonymous with the both of you reaching consensus on the subject) or you are here to cheer lead for your side; which is it? Just because David Wilcock might be a fraud or may just be ego-filled doesn't necessarily mean everything he says is wrong either. Source Field investigations first amazed me and it was all a smoke screen for the fact that about anything else he puts out isn't based on anything close to the amount of data he put there. (Although in his case it reads more like he's using data to build a narrative which sadly reeks of confirmation bias.)

Yes, we all have a bit of David Wilcock in us, I even admitted as much earlier in this thread and admitted to why I myself for a time was cheerleading myself for him. Then it dawned on me one of the most classic tricks used by a huckster, they'll take something very true and twist it to suit their own agenda. For a lie to be convincing, some part of it must be true or at least reflect what we really want to be true. So hucksters parlay trust built in one area into another, the most relevant modern-day example are the so-called "Creation Scientists" who actually have degrees in entirely unrelated areas, such as the humanities, making poor biological or geological arguments for creationism or intelligent design. These people are absolutely intelligent and brilliant in one area, but they are completely unfit to speak about the subject at hand, yet they parlay your trust in them and their credentials to push a lot of unfalsifiable BS onto you.

So don't be caught up in thinking it's so either/or regarding some of the subjects David Wilcock is talking about. Rather, try to see him as a person, like any other with an Agenda (we all have agendas.) Once you have a clear enough idea what his agenda is you can try to begin figuring out his motivations behind publishing X or Y. From there you can begin to see more clearly, what his claims are likely to represent. I say likely, because unfortunately no one really knows 100% of what lies in another person's mind for sure. I've even been able to confound so-called "psychics" myself. No one has ever completely been able to read me in all situations and by that I would say it's safe for us to assume this generally maintains true for us all; we are at times varying degrees of predictable and unpredictable.

Next time you want to accuse someone of unjustly casting stones though you should actually say why what they're doing equivocates to that so that it can be discussed until a better, more accurate way of phrasing the given material can be found between us. But we cannot refrain from any judgement, then it would be impossible to decide anything if we are not willing to set standards for what is probably true and what is probably not. We're still real people and need to make real decisions given what we can reasonably understand to be true, so it is paramount to figure out what information is correct and what is not. This means figuring out a speaker's motivations, even if they might tread into unsavory territory, must be done so that their teachings may be understood more clearly for what they are. If you disagree with the evaluations given though you can't just say "Nuh-uh! My super special feelings say this! So I'm going to call you wrong and then hide under the cloak of civility when you point out I've placed myself and anything I say beyond reproach!" It does not come off very well.

And believe me when I say that I do stupid things too, hell I just abruptly ended an emotion-filled debate in another thread a few days ago rather than continue it because I came to my own conclusion it would do nothing but yield more animosity. It still wasn't particularly fair to the other person in the thread, but here I am admitting to my own stupid behavior to make the point that no I am not immune from it either. That does not mean that I should not still try to act better in the future and similarly that does not mean that people like David Wilcock shouldn't try to clear this entire mess up with a humble understanding of why we currently have come to these conclusions. If they are entirely incorrect, it should be easy enough to demonstrate.

This is a classic example of what I was saying. Sorry but I find your reflection (mirror) of what I was saying completely misguided. Throwing stones is a METAPHOR that applies to ALL OF US INC ME, it wasn't a literal ACCUSATION.

I enjoyed reading that post however as I find it frank and open and I look forward to discussin many things with you as you have a fine mind. :o I have been on Avalon for 5 years and if you really knew me I don't think you would have such a low baseline of my abilities. :rolleyes:

DW is a mirror (reflection) of all those who follow him, I think he's found himself in a difficult place.

peace

K

[Ishtar]

Thank you 9eagle9 for your post yesterday about how the particular is relevant to the individual but doesn't translate to the general, the global. I think you hit the nail on the head with David's problem there. I don't think he's a huckster. I think he is dangerously deluded because he doesn't know how to read the language of the spirits. Here's an example of what I mean.

Last night, I had a dream where I was in a boat and suddenly, huge tsunami-like waves began to appear. I said to the boatman that we should turn back, but he said that it was too late and we must continue. The waves continued to come and swamp the boat and toss it around like a piece of driftwood, but eventually we came upon land and there was a huge tower. We got ourselves into the tower, but the water was following us in and threatening to swamp the tower. We kept going deeper and deeper into the building, trying to get away from the water. Eventually, we found some people in the tower, who began to talk to me about some deep inner pain that I'd been hiding from myself for some time. I got angry with them, because they'd struck a nerve, but they patiently waited for me to work through that emotion to get to the real stuff, the pain underneath, and then we began to work with it, to bring it to the surface so that it could be healed.

I woke this morning feeling immensely grateful for such a healing dream. But if I'd been David Wilcock, I'd have woken convinced that I had to warn the world that a great flood is coming.

As you're aware (but others may not be), shamans know that the intradimensional entities one meets in Dreamtime, otherwise known as the spirits, communicate in metaphor. The messages of these spirits are 1) not literal, but metaphorical and 2) not global, but individual.

Water is a fairly common universal metaphor for emotion and feeling, and buildings usually represent our physical manifestation in this world through the body-mind-spirit continuum. The dream meant that unless I dealt with these repressed emotions, my building or body would be over-run or flooded with them, and this will manifest in illness or disease.

David Wilcock doesn't understand how to read the metaphors of Dreamtime, and is taking them literally and applying them globally. It is a mistake often made by the adept at the very beginning of the spiritual path, and that's OK because beginners are supposed to make mistakes ~ that's how they learn. But if that beginner has no-one to correct his delusions and worse, is being 'handled' by people who are using his delusions for their own agenda, which is to corral people into their control pens, then that makes his delusions dangerous to the rest of the human race.

[joedjemal]

I must admit I'm not overwhelmed by the was he presents himself but I know nothing about the man but what he presents. I tend to rank information sources based on their track record and external confirmation. Based on that approach I'm afraid David Wilcock ranks alongside Sorcha Faal for past reliability. I gets a bit boring watching the flim flam he puts out suck up so many peoples energy and time.

If anything he's talking about actually happens I'll re rank him.

[9eagle9]

Yep first rule of thumb broken.

If one doesn't learn to manage their abilities those abilities will soon be managing them--or managed by something else.

OUR dreams tend be about OURselves. One doesn't have to bend or defy logic and feeling to understand that as the truth is a simple situation.

[SilentFeathers]

Wilcock is just doing what many do, perhaps with a bit more ego and a more controversial (perhaps unethical) agenda than many others but he has been conditioned just as the rest of us have. He is making a living at another's expense, selling a product to pay his bills and to buy food.

We all feed off of each other to one extent or another, in good ways and sometimes bad ways.

When a doctor doesn't know whats wrong with you they'll most likely guess and lie to you more or less and prescribe pills and tell you to eat 'em everyday for two weeks and if your not better come back.....well, not much different than what Wilcock and several others do. If the pills don't work you either go back to the same doctor for the same quality treatment and hope they missed something, or you find another doctor......preferably a more educated and better doctor than the previous, where's Wilcock getting his info or medicine from? Perhaps his teacher or source can better inform you, or perhaps you need a completely different perspective.....Wilcock then becomes just a stepping stone towards more clarity or better medicine.

As I said in an earlier post, many others in the alternative or "out of the box" research community are doing the exact same thing as Wilcock with similar claims of channeling dead people or aliens/gods, writing books loaded with others info and research and putting their own personal spin on it etc.

I suppose it's our job to sift through the debris for beneficial information..........

Raf, this thread was not in vain, those that see what your intention was/is should benefit from it and perhaps not take so much for granted in the future in there journey or quest for the truth....some see it as an attack on Wilcock, but in my eyes you could of chosen several other "researchers/mediums/saviors" as the subject to make your point and would of got very similiar results/responses.

Good job brother, ya got people thinking and perhaps may have even caused a few people to question their own "information guru's" and just not Wilcock.

No one knows it all and even the best doctor can make a mistake and prescribe the wrong medicine, and a not so good doctor can really screw one up and make a complete mess out of ones life.....

(read under my signature) :)

[gripreaper]

I must admit I'm not overwhelmed by the was he presents himself but I know nothing about the man but what he presents. I tend to rank information sources based on their track record and external confirmation. Based on that approach I'm afraid David Wilcock ranks alongside Sorcha Faal for past reliability. I gets a bit boring watching the flim flam he puts out suck up so many peoples energy and time.

If anything he's talking about actually happens I'll re rank him.

Well, I'm amazed at how David's collating of others information mesmerizes so many people and how defensive the David lovers are. If you go to the comments section of his blog, 75% of the comments are hero worshipers with such comments as: Oh, thank you so much David for your fantastic work, and we love you and you are the greatest and my life is totally changed by you and keep up the good work and get some rest and don't push so hard...blah..blah...blahhhh.....oh, by the way, when is the next installment? I can't wait for part two of this epic unfolding you are singlehandedly ushering in, the greatest global transformation of this planet ever to occur in earths trillions of year history, and it's all because you have stepped up, Oh sweet and generous David, and chosen to spearhead this transition and be the global liaison for all of the 146 aligned nations and the ET's too, and now Drake too! I'll bet being the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce and the soulstream of RA really helps! And your dreams confirm it all and that's how we know for sure it's all real and true!

[9eagle9]

How else would he be able to pick up chicks?

[SilentFeathers]

Well, I'm amazed at how David's collating of others information mesmerizes so many people and how defensive the David lovers are. If you go to the comments section of his blog, 75% of the comments are hero worshipers with such comments as: Oh, thank you so much David for your fantastic work, and we love you and you are the greatest and my life is totally changed by you and keep up the good work and get some rest and don't push so hard...blah..blah...blahhhh.....oh, by the way, when is the next installment? I can't wait for part two of this epic unfolding you are singlehandedly ushering in, the greatest global transformation of this planet ever to occur in earths trillions of year history, and it's all because you have stepped up, Oh sweet and generous David, and chosen to spearhead this transition and be the global liaison for all of the 146 aligned nations and the ET's too, and now Drake too! I'll bet being the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce and the soulstream of RA really helps!

That's just where some of these people are at in their own personal journey....they have entered the "Wilcock Zone".

I must admit, many years ago David grabbed my attention and I was fascinated by some of his work, the whole ascension/rapture thing in the late 90's. the reincarnation and channeling things too, really made me question him though and he was nothing more than a stepping stone for me towards deeper research, I still check out his stuff though just out of curiosity. He is rather crafty and skilled at grabbing attention. He could probably change his whole format and claim he has proof that dinosaurs were from another galaxy and are the true parents of the reptilian ET's and gain quite a following, the guy has strong charisma and is very likable to many.....

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Which is exactly why I keep preaching that people should not denigrate the Teacher-student relationship. David might be a prime example of what happens when someone is arrogant enough to think they can figure it all out themselves through their dreams or whatever. Yes, a few can do it (Christ and Buddha managed on their own for example), but we often end up with Darth Vader or David Wilcock. Even the most wonderful of people can be led astray by the seduction of their own ego needs or unresolved psychological complexes. In my opinion, anyone who thinks otherwise has actually not faced that terrain themselves and is just theorizing about it.


Yep first rule of thumb broken.

If one doesn't learn to manage their abilities those abilities will soon be managing them--or managed by something else.

OUR dreams tend be about OURselves. One doesn't have to bend or defy logic and feeling to understand that as the truth is a simple situation.

[Cartomancer]

How else would he be able to pick up chicks?

He is kind of a dream boat.

[9eagle9]

How else would he be able to pick up chicks?

He is kind of a dream boat.

You don't know how much I appreciate you making me yak before I wasted my Memorial Weekend Margarita.

[SilentFeathers]

You don't know how much I appreciate you making me yak before I wasted my Memorial Weekend Margarita.

You can always pour another!!!!!! ;)

[marique3652]

[David Wilcock] changed his look by shaving off his beard and dying his hair blonde ...
Being easily amused, I tracked down a picture of the earlier David Wilcock look, from here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/36525916/David-Wilcock-The-Science-of-Oneness

http://thepythoniccow.us/David_Wilcock_with_beard.jpg



Hey Paul,

He also claimed to be the reincarnation of Rasputin, according to this post, and:

"With the assistance of good angles and lighting he also likes to force his friends and family to pose like some of his favorite heroes of old (anyone of historical significance who bares a slight resemblance) Sure our world is getting worse and worse every year and desperately needs its savior but apparently the best the universe could come up with is David Wilcock and his team of super goofs to save the planet and herald in the new era."

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=137135213&p=732502653&viewfull=1#post732502653

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZKx_1QfUgazuelzDC84TTvSAOo55z5nuInSGHLPd8AKC7DbRmH4-rg-s9mg

And with this article:

http://truepastlifereadings.blogspot.com.br/

Cheers,

Raf.

We must not forget his memorable book where he explained that he is the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. His face sure gets around, lol.

http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww45/marique52/?action=view&current=cayce-wilcock.jpg

[Cartomancer]

Well, its getting nigh on early June and none of the promised events are taking place. The Bilderberg Group had their meeting with impunity. Now the excuse is that the "Cabal" is negotiating for lighter sentences. Before they are even charged with something. I don't see anyone running scared. Recent research reveals that the promise of releasing all of this hidden gold and world trust money has been being used against us since the at least the eighteenth century. This promise has been periodically used to give false hope and mislead the masses. In response we have been given a fiat money system that relies on money made out of thin air. These people are just not going to give up what they have.

In addition the people who are now promising this must be suspect. They need to open a history book and read.

[Youniverse]

I am about 3/4 of the way through "The Source Field Investigations" and love it as well. Very interesting indeed! I don't get the feeling that DW is just out to make a buck but who really knows the heart of a man besides himself or God? He's provided some amazingly interesting reading material. I have a particular interest in folks that try to reconcile science and spirituality. David appears to be doing that, or trying to. He's an interesting guy is really all i can say about him though. I'm not sure how constructive it is to attack someone, especially on a forum like this. As another person said on this thread, if he is a fraud, everyone will work that out for themselves. In the meantime, as the Beatles song goes "Let it Be." Peace to you all!

[peace]

And I add:

My point is that it does not matter if a alien struts across the road in front of you, or staggers across from gunshot wounds, or prances across in a ballerina's dress. the main point is that an alien crossed the road in front of you.

You've got someone out there doing the kind of job that needs to be done, in at least some fashion, and you are dumb enough to try and tear him down.

I repeat. dumb enough.

I repeat. dumb enough.

selfish enough.

Blind enough.

Visionless.

If you want to attack him and tear him down... then have the integrity to get out there and replace his value, in absolute concreteness and reality.

Offer yourself, in reality as a target and get the job done as well as he has.

If you can't and won't do that, then I'm not so sure (and nor should anyone else be) about your own value ---to yourself.

this is a pretty ridiculous thing to say of people being critical and i'm sad to see it, especially here.
too bad.

in response to other parts of this: replace what value? and what good job has he really done?

when we all wake up with nothing different on the 22nd i hope this place is a little calmer (it won't be).

or i'll just be dumb for thinking the guy is lying to us ...

gah.

[peace]

i wrote something testy and aggressive. deleted. because it's just not worth it.:crazy:

[9eagle9]

Not everyone claims to be 'love and light'

So they don't risk being hypocrites when they detest the behaviors of self proclaimed spiritual gurus.

If people find this sort of thing disturbing don't wander into Godlike productions, because this is the height of civilized discourse compared to what they say about David over there.

[cacophony]

"if he is a fraud, everyone will work that out for themselves."

I agree with this. But I don't know his heart.

Sometimes we want to believe things so deeply that we deceive ourselves. So I am equally grateful for a thread which discredits, or corroborates the claims of people that I might consider believing in! On another note, I'll be picking up his latest book sounds cool.

[Carmody]

On the road to getting somewhere, will be many stages with many missteps.

David is a stage on that road, that has mass appeal.

The path is meandering.

If you want truth to envelop the world, then some parts of that meandering path, by their very nature MUST have some form of mass appeal. this is indisputible.

To bash David smacks of elitism and limited thinking, at best.

I don't think that David comes from a 'rotten' space, as in:rotten and misbegotten purposeful misdirection.

Thus, in the sense of a group (middle of the bell curve, mass appeal required) heading into evolution, and meandering it's way there (which is the best that could ever be done) -- David and his body of presented work, is a step in that requisite direction.


Think it through.

[Ishtar]

Carmody, the path of truth will never be paved with lies.

David lies.

The path of mass appeal, on the other hand, may be paved with lies.

[9eagle9]

David would be more appealing if he had an exorcism.

For those of us who want don't want the psychic version of a re-education camp .....

Not sure what mass appeal has to do with truth or wisdom --that is overt and obvious advertising programming.

[Carmody]

Ok.

I'll be more direct.

Any of you who whine, and bitch.

get your **** out there on a shingle and sell it.

Let's see how many you reach. Let's see how many you get to ultimately turn their head into contemplation, instead of continued ignorance.

Until then... you may wank endlessly and thrust out those sour looks - from the peanut gallery.

Your turn to try..... and put out some form of mass appeal and manage to get something done.

And when you are out there, and are doing it, I'll criticize from my vantage point in the peanut gallery. Rightly so. I will pick the nits.

It's all good.

Do you get my point?

[Ishtar]

If you're addressing that to me, Carmody, you picked the wrong person.

[MOD EDIT] Removed self advertising of website.

It's very easy to get an audience of people who can't/don't want to think for themselves, who are just looking for shiny, new gods (ETs) to replace the old gods (Jehovah, Jesus Christ) they believe have let them down, and that's what Wilcock has done. There is no virtue in it.

[Carmody]

If you're addressing that to me, Carmody, you picked the wrong person.

[MOD EDIT] Removed Ishtar's self advertising of website.

It's very easy to get an audience of people who can't/don't want to think for themselves, who are just looking for shiny, new gods (ETs) to replace the old gods (Jehovah, Christ) who have let them down, and that's what Wilcock has done. There is no virtue in it.

Whatever David is doing..it's a stage, isn't it?

Just like your efforts, yes?

Just like another's criticism of his work, yes?

I support David's efforts at and within the context of a more mass appeal, and I support your right, or desire... to criticize his work.

Seeing the necessity of only the one, could be considered a short sighted fault, but perhaps it needs be that way, yes?

[Unified Serenity]

I find it interesting that a well respected member of the forum such as Carmody finds it necessary the hurl personal insults and cuss at those who do not trust or believe in what David Wilcock is selling, and he is selling. He quite frankly said he gives away the material on his website as a marketing ploy / tactic to get people to visit often and buy his books which make up about 10% of the activity there. Online marketing is a game and to be successful per David Wilcock, you give away most and sell 10%. Traffic is crucial per David, and anyway he can bump up traffic is just another gimmick to increase his sales and exposure imho. I don't fault him for it, but I keep that in the back of my mind in regard to his claims that have not come true thus far.

To say that everyone who examines David's works, actions, and words is worthless unless they too are out selling their beliefs or making a massive public platform is just a tactic to derail threads and seek to stop anyone from saying what you don't like. I found it quite interesting as I watched DW insinuate himself into Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy interviews of various people. There was no reason for him to be there and as it was happening I thought, "It seems DW is trying to make himself more and more visible for credibility purposes." That's my experience and viewpoint. I'm entitled to it. You are entitled to your views of DW. I would appreciate it if those who find themselves in disagreement would stick to the topic, stop the name calling, and act like civilized adults with both hearts and brains.

[Carmody]

I find it interesting that a well respected member of the forum such as Carmody finds it necessary the hurl personal insults and cuss at those who do not trust or believe in what David Wilcock is selling, and he is selling. He quite frankly said he gives away the material on his website as a marketing ploy / tactic to get people to visit often and buy his books which make up about 10% of the activity there. Online marketing is a game and to be successful per David Wilcock, you give away most and sell 10%. Traffic is crucial per David, and anyway he can bump up traffic is just another gimmick to increase his sales and exposure imho. I don't fault him for it, but I keep that in the back of my mind in regard to his claims that have not come true thus far.

To say that everyone who examines David's works, actions, and words is worthless unless they too are out selling their beliefs or making a massive public platform is just a tactic to derail threads and seek to stop anyone from saying what you don't like. I found it quite interesting as I watched DW insinuate himself into Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy interviews of various people. There was no reason for him to be there and as it was happening I thought, "It seems DW is trying to make himself more and more visible for credibility purposes. That's my experience and viewpoint. I'm entitled to it. You are entitled to your views of DW. I would appreciate it if those who find themselves in disagreement would stick to the topic, stop the name calling, and act like civilized adults with both hearts and brains.

Read again.

[Fred Steeves]

VpFITa9eYoQ

[RMorgan]

Ok.

I'll be more direct.

Any of you who whine, and bitch.

get your **** out there on a shingle and sell it.

Let's see how many you reach. Let's see how many you get to ultimately turn their head into contemplation, instead of continued ignorance.

Until then... you may wank endlessly and thrust out those sour looks - from the peanut gallery.

Your turn to try..... and put out some form of mass appeal and manage to get something done.

And when you are out there, and are doing it, I'll criticize from my vantage point in the peanut gallery. Rightly so. I will pick the nits.

It's all good.

Do you get my point?

Hey Carmody,

With all due respect, in my opinion, I think you´re mistaken on your views about criticism.

Anyone has the right to criticize anything, to judge or discuss the merits and faults of any subject or material.

An art critic doesn´t need to be a terrific painter to criticize a painting just like a literature critic doesn´t need to write best-sellers to criticize a book. All they need is to have a vast knowledge about their criticized field, in order to build high standards of what may be considered good or bad.

The critical thinking and analyzes is essential for the development of knowledge.

Whenever someone is selling anything or deliberately exposing him/herself to the public, the public, the consumers, have all the rights to criticize.

Criticizing is an essential part of freedom of speech and the exact opposite of censorship.

Saying that someone can´t criticize David Wilcock because he/she has not produced any material similar to his, is the same thing as saying someone can´t criticize the President because he/she has never ran for president.

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

Well I am. I just did. Zactly what I am always doing--system busting. It just doesn't have 'mass' appeal. People as a whole, like systems.
______________________
Clean up your inner environment.

A) Stop letting others create your reality for you because no one can create a future or a reality for you to seamlessly slide into.

B) Stop being led by the nose.

Clean out the programming that urges you to A and B.

When do I not ever bring that up again and again? I just brought up a post ago. Mass appeal is mass programming. It's for INDIVIDUAL self empowerment. Masses are composed of individuals. David seeks mass appeal, I see individuals. People who want to create their own reality, not David's limited vision of what he wants the future to be based on what someone/ something else told him. Religion is mass appeal and I rather had the notion that people wanted to get away from 'all that'.

It's not popular certainly but its demonstrable that I have indeed been doing my work. Don't need to promote a book, a video or my website because I'm right here, right now in the present with it. Nor do I have to dye my hair to make myself more visually appealing.

Daily. Doing my work.

Starting with MYSELF.

Not from behind a book or a video either or riding other people's coat tails.


Quality--not quantity.

*transcend* David Wilcock not emulate him. I know dozens of people possessed of far more higher intelligence than he, that no one will ever hear of,and you are one of them Carmody. David isn't going to validate that intelligence, that's up to you.
People are not masses, they are people.

[Unified Serenity]

I find it interesting that a well respected member of the forum such as Carmody finds it necessary the hurl personal insults and cuss at those who do not trust or believe in what David Wilcock is selling, and he is selling. He quite frankly said he gives away the material on his website as a marketing ploy / tactic to get people to visit often and buy his books which make up about 10% of the activity there. Online marketing is a game and to be successful per David Wilcock, you give away most and sell 10%. Traffic is crucial per David, and anyway he can bump up traffic is just another gimmick to increase his sales and exposure imho. I don't fault him for it, but I keep that in the back of my mind in regard to his claims that have not come true thus far.

To say that everyone who examines David's works, actions, and words is worthless unless they too are out selling their beliefs or making a massive public platform is just a tactic to derail threads and seek to stop anyone from saying what you don't like. I found it quite interesting as I watched DW insinuate himself into Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy interviews of various people. There was no reason for him to be there and as it was happening I thought, "It seems DW is trying to make himself more and more visible for credibility purposes. That's my experience and viewpoint. I'm entitled to it. You are entitled to your views of DW. I would appreciate it if those who find themselves in disagreement would stick to the topic, stop the name calling, and act like civilized adults with both hearts and brains.

Read again.

So, you deny personal insults of members and cussing at them? Ok, let's see:



You've got someone out there doing the kind of job that needs to be done, in at least some fashion, and you are dumb enough to try and tear him down.

I repeat. dumb enough.

I repeat. dumb enough.

selfish enough.

Blind enough.

Visionless.

You called people who disagree dumb, blind, stupid, visionless in the above quote. That sort of behavior does not contribute to mature discussion and only insults people. You are better than this Carmody.

Let's try anther:



Ok.

I'll be more direct.

Any of you who whine, and bitch.

get your **** out there on a shingle and sell it.

Your tone is unnecessarily aggressive, condescending, and dismissive of those who do not hold your views Carmody. They are your words, and seem quite easy to understand. You appear personally offended by what some think of David Wilcock and are defending him in a most immature means and using bully tactics. Happily, they don't work on the more spiritually evolved members who can still manage to think and speak for themselves regardless of the tactics you and others employ despite all the other posts about love, light, tolerance and healing you also seem to hold dear.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Well I am. I just did. Zactly what I am always doing--system busting. It just doesn't have 'mass' appeal. People as a whole, like systems.
______________________
Clean up your inner environment.

A) Stop letting others create your reality for you because no one can create a future or a reality for you to seamlessly slide into.

B) Stop being led by the nose.

Clean out the programming that urges you to A and B.

When do I not ever bring that up again and again? I just brought up a post ago. Mass appeal is mass programming. It's for INDIVIDUAL self empowerment. Masses are composed of individuals. David seeks mass appeal, I see individuals. People who want to create their own reality, not David's limited vision of what he wants the future to be based on what someone/ something else told him. Religion is mass appeal and I rather had the notion that people wanted to get away from 'all that'.

It's not popular certainly but its demonstrable that I have indeed been doing my work. Don't need to promote a book, a video or my website because I'm right here, right now in the present with it. Nor do I have to dye my hair to make myself more visually appealing.

Daily. Doing my work.

Starting with MYSELF.

Not from behind a book or a video either or riding other people's coat tails.


Quality--not quantity.

*transcend* David Wilcock not emulate him. I know dozens of people possessed of far more higher intelligence than he, that no one will ever hear of,and you are one of them Carmody. David isn't going to validate that intelligence, that's up to you.
People are not masses, they are people.


Amen and thank you 9Eagle9. I do love your spirit and words of wisdom!

Have a great day!

[9eagle9]

Watch the Dr. Pete Peterson interviews and wonder why David is there.

Watch the looks that Dr. Peterson gives David "Are you for real?"

Watch David try to nudge Peterson's expressions into something that will validate his own world view. (which is why he was there presumably)

Watch Dr. Peterson correct David and refuse to be herded by him.


Do that for yourself.

[Carmody]

Watch the Dr. Pete Peterson interviews and wonder why David is there.

Watch the looks that Dr. Peterson gives David "Are you for real?"

Watch David try to nudge Peterson's expressions into something that will validate his own world view. (which is why he was there presumably)

Watch Dr. Peterson correct David and refuse to be herded by him.


Do that for yourself.

Now that was nice, I like that one.

The video does show some interesting things.

I have no conclusions beyond my personal observations, which are only that.

I'm not in David's head or Peterson's head.

[mountain_jim]

I was under the impression that DW helped provide the funds that made that, and other, Project Camelot interviews possible.

If so, that to me would be a good reason to be allowed to participate. Bill has not been shy about giving his views on DW lately, maybe he could speak to whether my impression was/is erroneous.

edit: Bill's preamble does not address the above



When we were introduced to Dr Pete Peterson by a mutual friend, and spoke with him for the first time on the phone, we immediately realized we were talking with someone who even by Project Camelot standards had a quite enormous amount of high quality information, backed by personal experience, on an astonishingly large range of subjects.

We told our friend David Wilcock. David felt very strongly - as a psychic intuitive - that we needed to visit Dr Peterson immediately while he was willing to give on-record testimony. So this interview straight away broke new ground: it was the first Camelot interview in which David joined the two of us for the interview. A few days later, Bill flew to the US from Europe for the weekend especially for the meeting - which was held over two long days.

We talked extensively off-record, and Dr Peterson was extremely cautious about presenting some of his testimony on video. But we nevertheless recorded nearly four hours of testimony. Listen carefully to the questions and the answers - especially in Kerry's Part 3 (Part 1 was Bill and Part 2 was David) - and enjoy the very end of Part 2, just as that part of the interview fades. (This is our favorite section, and we have very purposely left it in.)

Dr Peterson is an extremely well-informed insider - and a most remarkable and brilliant scientist - who came forward to talk with us publicly because he feels the issues he cares deeply about, and knows about, are too important to keep silent about. We salute his courage.

[9eagle9]

David most certainly has your head if you feel so thus compelled to defend what cannot be defended.

Only the guilty need defense.

I noted far far back after David the-I-don't-fear-death-guru broke down on the radio that his fans would be his undoing and present more evidence of his assholery than anything that he could do by word or admission. He's even made you , his ardent fans, his scapegoat when his predictions fail to come to fruition.

You take five people who have an ounce of self respect and they would have taken him out with the garbage for attempting to pull something like that on them.

[Carmody]

David most certainly has your head if you feel so thus compelled to defend what cannot be defended.

Only the guilty need defense.

I noted far far back after David the-I-don't-fear-death-guru broke down on the radio that his fans would be his undoing and present more evidence of his assholery than anything that he could do by word or admission. He's even made you , his ardent fans, his scapegoat when his predictions fail to come to fruition.

You take five people who have an ounce of self respect and they would have taken him out with the garbage for attempting to pull something like that on them.

"you"?

I'm all for bitching, make no mistake. do your best, it is all you can do. I try to do the same.

In that case or sort of 'situation', I'm tossing peanut shells at the backs of the odd head, from a few seats further back in the peanut gallery.

[SilentFeathers]

Let's get serious folk's! :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Rasputin_pt.jpg/200px-Rasputin_pt.jpg

[9eagle9]

Peanut tossing, another spiritual skillset brought to us by the incomparable David Wilcocks.

Give David some heavy artillery and watch him shoot his foot off with it. (For your sake please don't follow suit).


You are under the perception Carmody that criticism of David must be criticism of you . THAT is how cult guru programming works, that is how the guru armies are created, so the guru has no need to defend their drivel, they have their adherents out there busily defending them.

Is it a coincidence that the moment Drake came on the scene all the Wilcocks adherents winged right over to that camp too? No. Pre-conditioning.

If he is that all powerful and what he says has such staying power , he could make his own debate about it. One would 'think' not what one has observed.

Now you are obviously and overtly that self identified with him that any criticism of him must of course be a criticism of you. If you cannot separate yourself from someone else that is a BIG problem. I for the life of me cannot figure out why a person as demonstrably intelligent as yourself would defend that idiot for any reason other than his brand of programming is geared towards identity theft.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I'ts not a ****ing contest Carmody, its your LIFE.

[SilentFeathers]

Give David some heavy artillery and watch him shoot his foot off with it.

Hence; His recent business and marketing skills/strategies.....

He's a gamblin man!

[Zencat]

US, thank you for the thread.

I think it is absolutely legitimate to find chinks in the armors of public persona, whether in the political, exopolitical, spiritual or religious realms. I'm no fan of David Wilcock. None of things he has said since the late 90s have come true. I heard him speak on the Big Island once and his ego was a huge turnoff for me. I am always amazed at the sheep who follow him (and Fulford, Drake, SaLuSa, GFL and the countless others) without putting on the thinking caps that the Creator gave us.

My 97 year old father, who lives in India, has always been a huge fan and devotee of Sai Baba, the Indian 'Godman', who died last year. Sai Baba, through his organizations, built schools and hospitals for the poor. Yet, he was also a scammer, a pedophile and claimed that he was a living incarnation of God. He was also a misogynist, who disrespected women.

My father refused to discuss Sai Baba with me, even though I would show him videos of Sai Baba being debunked when he pulled a gold amulet 'like magic' out of his sleeve, or dropped holy ash from his hands. Or, the hundreds of letters from men around the world who had been abused.

David Wilcock is like a cult leader. Regardless of how many times he fails 'to deliver', the sheep always find reasons to forgive him.

9eagle, I love your wisdom. Raf, I always admire your logical reasoning and your use of analogy.

[Ishtar]

If you're addressing that to me, Carmody, you picked the wrong person.

[MOD EDIT] Removed Ishtar's self advertising of website. It's very easy to get an audience of people who can't/don't want to think for themselves, who are just looking for shiny, new gods (ETs) to replace the old gods (Jehovah, Christ) who have let them down, and that's what Wilcock has done. There is no virtue in it.

Whatever David is doing..it's a stage, isn't it?

Just like your efforts, yes?

Just like another's criticism of his work, yes?

I support David's efforts at and within the context of a more mass appeal, and I support your right, or desire... to criticize his work.

Seeing the necessity of only the one, could be considered a short sighted fault, but perhaps it needs be that way, yes?

Groan.... where to begin to clean up this mess.

:rolleyes:

First of all, Ishtar's Gate is not a stage, it's a facility for people to share their research, and their ideas based on that research, in a convivial and respectful atmosphere.

A stage would be part of a hierarchical structure. If you imagine a triangle, or a pyramid, with one on top dictating to those below what to think, that would be the model that David's following, just like the Freemasons' model.

Now imagine a tribe sitting around a fire in a circle. The difference between a triangle and a circle will give the difference between a staged performance and a communion of like-minded souls, which is what Ishtar's Gate is all about.

But finally, you moved the goalposts... and don't think I didn't notice.

I was answering your claim that I was a useless wanker and that I was doing nothing to help people become more self-empowered. I in no way implied that mine is the only way.

There is one major difference, though, between me and Wilcock (apart from the size of audience) and that is that I present evidence for what I believe, so that people can see how I arrived at my conclusions.

Wilcock makes ridiculous claims, like


The end of this year, 2012, is the moment the ancient prophecies identified as the shift-point of the entire cycle. Again, this was "encoded" into dozens of ancient mythologies around the world -- all of whom predicted it would usher in a Golden Age. We do not know whether anything specific will happen during this exact time window or not -- but either way, it appears that all of the ancient prophecies are now coming to a head.

This tells me that he hasn't read these myths himself, or he would never make such erroneous and outlandish claims, and he certainly doesn't back them up because he can't, unless he's going to start making up ancient myths.

Like I said, what is the virtue in having blind and stupid followers? Anyone can do that.

But there is another factor.

I don't believe anyone can get any kind of sizeable following unless they have the right kind of handshake. As my own handshake will always remain politically incorrect, I don't expect to 'make it' like Wilcock, and neither do I desire to.

I hope that helps. But to be really honest, Carmody, I know you're not interested in my views or anyone else's really. I know the people round here like you, because they've got used to you probably. But as a relative newcomer, I don't. You come across to me as someone who's a professional agitator and disinformer, who orchestrates the other shills on here to disrupt threads just when they're getting interesting. I wonder how much you get paid to run interference on forums like this one. You would not be allowed on mine.

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Unfortunately, for every man who puts himself in some kind of messianic position, there are people ready to follow.

Here is an example. Three different men claiming to be Jesus. Each one of them has a huge amount of followers.

These followers couldn´t care less if those men are saying the truth or not. They just want something to believe.

One of them, the one playing snooker, is a Brazilian, called "Inri Cristo".

xaRvAI-p9Mo

IZQE_sPmWVM

Cheers,

Raf.

[Cartomancer]

Its very simple. Prior to the Fulford/Drake info I would listen to David and glean some info or insights from what he was saying about his theories and ideas. I would occasionally cringe as he made a prediction as a certainty but he is a good speaker in a field where all are not so blessed. Overall I was interested and willing to listen even to his points I wouldn't necessarily believe. I value David Icke in the same manner and some others.

When he came out with the Fulford thing I cringed because it was so out of character for him and I also saw the immediate danger of him gambling away his credibility. I'm afraid that is what has happened with most of us here who don't like his coverage of Fulford/Drake. Its not all us simply piling on the guy when he is down. We were all willing to listen until we had to put the hip waders on here. Judging by the people responding negatively here I would guess most of them were willing to at least listen to him before this. Something about these issues have turned a lot of highly thinking people against this guy. He needs to examine that himself. The Wilcock bashing began because of his decisions and his choices.

[Fred Steeves]

For what it's worth, here's what I see. Large chunks of the alternative crowd are growing up, and quickly. The sh!t that people like me would have swallowed hook, line, and sinker only 2 years ago, is now looked at like: "Really? That's all you got? Bye bye."

The times of being able to easily bullsh!t this crowd are rapidly coming to a close, because we're sick and tired of being bullsh!tted. Enough! The once numerous sacred cows are now few and far between. Now, anyone here who finds themselves in the public eye, fine, the more truth tellers out there the better. As long as you are speaking from your heart, and speaking your own sacred truth, you'll be o.k., people will know.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/yes4.gif

This is not aimed at D.W. per say, it's aimed for "out there" period.

[SilentFeathers]

For what it's worth, here's what I see. Large chunks of the alternative crowd are growing up, and quickly. The sh!t that people like me would have swallowed hook, line, and sinker only 2 years ago, is now looked at like: "Really? That's all you got? Bye bye."

The times of being able to easily bullsh!t this crowd are rapidly coming to a close, because we're sick and tired of being bullsh!tted. Enough! The once numerous sacred cows are now few and far between. Now, anyone here who finds themselves in the public eye, fine, the more truth tellers out there the better. As long as you are speaking from your heart, and speaking your own sacred truth, you'll be o.k., people will know.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/yes4.gif

This is not aimed at D.W. per say, it's aimed for "out there" period.

Well said, and it'll eventually put a lot of the BSer's outta business.....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OQoTJzL9Plo/SPcnr4806rI/AAAAAAAAACg/fym8_AHkwhk/s200/noBS.jpg

[LarryC]

<< Hey folks,

Unfortunately, for every man who puts himself in some kind of messianic position, there are people ready to follow.

Here is an example. Three different men claiming to be Jesus. Each one of them has a huge amount of followers.

These followers couldn´t care less if those men are saying the truth or not. They just want something to believe.

One of them, the one playing snooker, is a Brazilian, called "Inri Cristo". >>

This is a well known phenomenon among schizophrenics, but what does it have to do with David Wilcock? I don't recall him claiming to be Jesus or a messiah. In fact, he repeatedly says you shouldn't look up to him. Not everyone follows this advice, of course, but we can't blame him for that (well, I'm sure some of you can). This can be a problem with any well known figure in any field.

[RMorgan]

For what it's worth, here's what I see. Large chunks of the alternative crowd are growing up, and quickly. The sh!t that people like me would have swallowed hook, line, and sinker only 2 years ago, is now looked at like: "Really? That's all you got? Bye bye."

The times of being able to easily bullsh!t this crowd are rapidly coming to a close, because we're sick and tired of being bullsh!tted. Enough! The once numerous sacred cows are now few and far between. Now, anyone here who finds themselves in the public eye, fine, the more truth tellers out there the better. As long as you are speaking from your heart, and speaking your own sacred truth, you'll be o.k., people will know.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/yes4.gif

This is not aimed at D.W. per say, it's aimed for "out there" period.

Well said, and it'll eventually put a lot of the BSer's outta business.....

Hey folks,

I´m sure about that. Just wait until 2013 begins and nothing significant happens.

Really, I´m so curious about what will happen to these folks then.

Probably, they will come up with more excuses and change "ascension" for another date. Probably, a lot of people will continue to follow them but I hope the numbers of followers to decrease.

Really, curiosity is a bitch! I can´t wait to see what´s going to happen in this forum and in the "alternative media" next year.

Will people behave differently? Will people finally wake up? I hope so.

Anyway, nothing surprises me anymore, regarding human behavior.

People have been behaving the same way, basically, for thousands of years but I still hope people to change someday. This would be true "ascension", finally changing from thought slaves into independent thinking human beings.

2013 will be an important mark for human behavior students, like me.

Raf.


<< Hey folks,

Unfortunately, for every man who puts himself in some kind of messianic position, there are people ready to follow.

Here is an example. Three different men claiming to be Jesus. Each one of them has a huge amount of followers.

These followers couldn´t care less if those men are saying the truth or not. They just want something to believe.

One of them, the one playing snooker, is a Brazilian, called "Inri Cristo". >>

This is a well known phenomenon among schizophrenics, but what does it have to do with David Wilcock? I don't recall him claiming to be Jesus or a messiah. In fact, he repeatedly says you shouldn't look up to him. Not everyone follows this advice, of course, but we can't blame him for that (well, I'm sure some of you can). This can be a problem with any well known figure in any field.

Hi my friend,

Well, this is just an analogy showing that, for anyone who claims anything, even without showing any evidence to substantiate their claims, there´s always a large group of people ready to follow.

Raf.

[LarryC]

I find it odd and a little amusing how obsessed some people are about David Wilcock. You might ask yourself, if I think this person is a fraud why do I spend so much time thinking about him? There's an awful lot of words and energy in this thread. Is it really serving your own growth to discredit someone else? I could probably think of dozens of people I regard as unreliable or fake, but I don't spend hours writing about them.

I don't consider myself a follower of DW, but I've found a lot of value in his work. I can forgive him for having sold a few books along the way. As for his failed predictions, I would say he's definitely fallible. On the other hand, I believe that all predictions are uncertain due to multiple timelines. Some will say that I'm making excuses for him, but I really don't need to do that. The truth is, I don't have any investment in believing in DW or any particular source. But dismissing someone's whole body of work closes you off to possibilities, which doesn't limit me or DW but yourself.

[Ishtar]

Hey folks,

I´m sure about that. Just wait until 2013 begins and nothing significant happens.

Really, I´m so curious about what will happen to these folks then.

Probably, they will come up with more excuses and change "ascension" for another date...


Here's what they're going to say, Raf,


I believe that all predictions are uncertain due to multiple timelines. Some will say that I'm making excuses for him...

The good old 'multiple timelines' schtick washing powder... works wonders on those difficult stains every time! :washing:

[humanalien]

Some of you are bringing up some very good points but one kind of
sticks out more than the rest. That would be how so many of you come
to the defense of the likes of "Fulford, Wilcock, Drake, Kettler" and
the rest. Why do you fearlessly defend these people?

I can only think of one reason. They have sucked you right into their
reality. You are living their dreams and to those that are really pulled
into their way of thinking, your even paying their way through life.

The trick here is to just take note of what a person says but believe
nothing. Most people out there, are only in the business to make money.
DW is making money, hand over fist from you buying his books and
going to his lectures. This is just about the same way that all the rest of
them make their money to.

I was suckered into all this crap to, just a couple of years ago but then i
started examining all the stories being put out by all these people and they
just got more and more wilder. How much of this crap are your going to
continue believing until your finally wake up and say ENOUGH.

You people aren't stupid by any means but you are so slow to wake up.
People like wilcock aren't gods. They don't know everything. The information
that they give you was stolen from someone else's work and they probably
stole it from someone else. What isn't stolen was more than likely, made up.

Anyway, people have the right to voice there own opinions on any thing or
any person. You don't need to defend anyone. Let the person/people in question
come here and defend themselves.

[RMorgan]

I find it odd and a little amusing how obsessed some people are about David Wilcock. You might ask yourself, if I think this person is a fraud why do I spend so much time thinking about him? There's an awful lot of words and energy in this thread. Is it really serving your own growth to discredit someone else? I could probably think of dozens of people I regard as unreliable or fake, but I don't spend hours writing about them.

I don't consider myself a follower of DW, but I've found a lot of value in his work. I can forgive him for having sold a few books along the way. As for his failed predictions, I would say he's definitely fallible. On the other hand, I believe that all predictions are uncertain due to multiple timelines. Some will say that I'm making excuses for him, but I really don't need to do that. The truth is, I don't have any investment in believing in DW or any particular source. But dismissing someone's whole body of work closes you off to possibilities, which doesn't limit me or DW but yourself.

Hey mate,

This is a fair question. I´ve answered it before in this thread but I don´t mind answering again.

The fact is that I don´t like seeing goodhearted and honest people getting duped like this.

I just can´t watch this circus, which I consider more like a crime against emotional and intellectual integrity, and do nothing about it.

I don´t like deception. I don´t like lies.

After thinking a lot about it, I came to the conclusion that I care about people, specially people who are seeking the truth.

Truth seeking is not an easy task; It´s so easy to get lost in the process...I´ve been investigating the truth since I was a kid, really, and I´ve seen many persons like David Wilcock come and go.

A lot of these folks are just like flies; at the moment one goes away, another comes to take his place.

I´m really sick about it. I can´t just watch these things happen over and over again and do nothing about it.

The world is full of liars...Politicians, journalists, corporations, religions, gurus, you name it.

I think we should know by now that, believing in false promises, independently if they sound good or not, is just pointless.

That´s all.

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

By observation.

He's an ascended being. He claims to be a prophet.

Instead of being the reincarnation of some previously known prophet, like Jesus, he is the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce the most reknown (if not always correct) prophet of the 20th Century.

He has to have a following.

Creation of a new religion of our time.

Most of his messages are garbled up Christianity about ascension which is obviously originated in the Bible.


Like Jesus he is going to take down the power structures.

Like Jesus he wept when he knew he was about to be crucified in public.

People are still not entirely clueless, David has a degree in psychology so must understand that coming right out and proclaiming himself Jesus wouldn't go over real well, so simply mimics in action, word and deed .

Alll matters and densities surrounding David are archetypical in nature and have been repeated before.


<< Hey folks,

Unfortunately, for every man who puts himself in some kind of messianic position, there are people ready to follow.

Here is an example. Three different men claiming to be Jesus. Each one of them has a huge amount of followers.

These followers couldn´t care less if those men are saying the truth or not. They just want something to believe.

One of them, the one playing snooker, is a Brazilian, called "Inri Cristo". >>

This is a well known phenomenon among schizophrenics, but what does it have to do with David Wilcock? I don't recall him claiming to be Jesus or a messiah. In fact, he repeatedly says you shouldn't look up to him. Not everyone follows this advice, of course, but we can't blame him for that (well, I'm sure some of you can). This can be a problem with any well known figure in any field.

[9eagle9]

Because he is killing people from the inside out?

Taking good brains and minds and turning them into mush? Of course with the consent and agreement of the mush minded so he's not entirely to blame . Nothing can be done without someone's consent.

Assimilation, feeding, vampirsm, creating a reality that sovereign spirits don't belong in.

You get to the very heart of the matter, David is no better than the ptb and I don't see anyone singing their praises and gee, don't we sure talk about 'them' alot.

Does David SEE you as a living breathing entity that has the potential for sovereignty? Nooo, that would shut his whole pony show down in a heartbeat.

No , you're just a mass to appeal to.



I find it odd and a little amusing how obsessed some people are about David Wilcock. You might ask yourself, if I think this person is a fraud why do I spend so much time thinking about him? There's an awful lot of words and energy in this thread. Is it really serving your own growth to discredit someone else? I could probably think of dozens of people I regard as unreliable or fake, but I don't spend hours writing about them.

I don't consider myself a follower of DW, but I've found a lot of value in his work. I can forgive him for having sold a few books along the way. As for his failed predictions, I would say he's definitely fallible. On the other hand, I believe that all predictions are uncertain due to multiple timelines. Some will say that I'm making excuses for him, but I really don't need to do that. The truth is, I don't have any investment in believing in DW or any particular source. But dismissing someone's whole body of work closes you off to possibilities, which doesn't limit me or DW but yourself.

[LarryC]

<< He's an ascended being. He claims to be a prophet.

Instead of being the reincarnation of some previously known prophet, like Jesus, he is the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce the most reknown (if not always correct) prophet of the 20th Century.

He has to have a following.

Creation of a new religion of our time.

Most of his messages are garbled up Christianity about ascension which is obviously originated in the Bible.


Like Jesus he is going to take down the power structures.

Like Jesus he wept when he knew he was about to be crucified in public. >>

Sorry, but this is just propaganda. Is DW the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce? I have no idea, and don't really care. But Cayce was given the nickname, The Sleeping Prophet. That hardly makes him a "prophet" in the classical use of that word, as Mohammed was called the prophet. I don't recall DW claiming to be "ascended." He might believe in ascension, which you can certainly argue with, but that's for many people, not just him.

He has never started anything remotely like a religion. As for taking down power structures like Jesus, doesn't everybody in the alternative movement want to do this one way or another? As for weeping like Jesus, that's just silly. You're going to say that anyone who has ever cried is trying to be like Jesus? Again, this is just propaganda, twisting various words and incidents to paint a distorted picture of who someone really is.

[LarryC]

<< I can only think of one reason. They have sucked you right into their
reality. You are living their dreams and to those that are really pulled
into their way of thinking, your even paying their way through life. >>

Humanalien, this assumes that everyone who defends DW is a mindless, programmed cult member. Some of his followers might fit this description, but so do anyone's followers. It's not a good idea to follow anyone blindly.

RMorgan, if you really believe this and think you're helping people by warning them, I guess that's what you have to do.

[Carmody]

I hope that helps. But to be really honest, Carmody, I know you're not interested in my views or anyone else's really. I know the people round here like you, because they've got used to you probably. But as a relative newcomer, I don't. You come across to me as someone who's a professional agitator and disinformer, who orchestrates the other shills on here to disrupt threads just when they're getting interesting. I wonder how much you get paid to run interference on forums like this one. You would not be allowed on mine.


Wow.

That is just so wrong.

It's been a long long time since I was labeled a 'bad guy'.

[RMorgan]

RMorgan, if you really believe this and think you're helping people by warning them, I guess that's what you have to do.

What other thing could I do to help people, in this case, besides warning and investigating this character?

If you have a suggestion, I´d like to hear it, honestly.

Would you rather me to just step back and ignore all these things?

Warning is very useful!

Don´t you like when someone warns you that you´re about to step in dog sh!t when you´re walking around the neighborhood?

This is a stupid analogy, but basically, it´s about the same thing. Solidarity.

Do to others what you would like others to do to you. Personally, I like to be warned when I´m about to make a mistake or when I´m walking towards the wrong direction.

By the way, I may be wrong, but did you actually read this entire thread?

We´ve came to very solid conclusions about this man. You can check them in this summarized thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=495297&viewfull=1#post495297

All the best,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

Who is the actual fool?

The person who warns the Fool they are about to step off of a cliff...

or the person who disregards the warning.

Carmody you aren't a bad guy, you are wasting something that is far more brilliant than the one you are wasting your energy on. Less about bad than waste.

[modwiz]

I hope that helps. But to be really honest, Carmody, I know you're not interested in my views or anyone else's really. I know the people round here like you, because they've got used to you probably. But as a relative newcomer, I don't. You come across to me as someone who's a professional agitator and disinformer, who orchestrates the other shills on here to disrupt threads just when they're getting interesting. I wonder how much you get paid to run interference on forums like this one. You would not be allowed on mine.


Wow.

That is just so wrong.

It's been a long long time since I was labeled a 'bad guy'.

Carmody, you have to consider the source. I could get a vacation for calling this one like it is, so I won't.

One of the few on my ignore list.

Funny how mirrors work.

[Mike]

sometimes i think a better way to resolve a thread like this is for the participants to declare 'for' or 'against', their reasoning behind it, and also -- crucially -- whether or not they believe Wilcock to have followed them around in a past life perpetually flicking their ears or giving them atomic wedgies. with these critical issues resolved, perhaps this should be a members' *only* allowed post in a limping dog of a thread like this...

ahhhh! censorship! quick, someone call Sociopathadoodoo!

a maniacal lambaster has, to me, equally a distorted perspective as a manaical defender/supporter; though the lambaster will frequently straw man the defender/supporter and act as though he's the only one viewing things through a flawed prism. defender/supporter will return serve and accuse lambaster of same. same script, every time...

i'm not really a Wilcock guy, per se. much of the criticism here has merit, no doubt. but both camps have to realize something:

for the lambasters: not every person who supports Wilcock is a brainwashed, catatonic, cult-following moron. this is an ignorant assumption. take myself, for example: i think many of the things he's discussed have real value, but i won't be scattering flower petals in his path any time soon or serving him exotic meats while wearing a sexy toga and addressing him aristocratically as 'Mr.Wilcock'. i just happen to think he's a smart, knowledgeable guy with something to share -- no more, no less. now, lambasters are almost always the first to start such trite rallying cries as:

"think for yourself!"
"don't follow anybody!"
"*you* are your master!"

...and a whole bunch of other stuff that might be found on a really bad new age birthday card. it's designed to sound magnanimous but is really just a passive-aggressive put down. do we really need to be told these things? it's akin to telling a room full of adults to wipe their fanny after doing a number two. thanks for the tip...but no thanks. my point: you can like and respect Wilcock while still thinking for yourself, not following anybody, and being your own master. to assume otherwise is block thinking; it's nuance deficient.


For the blind supporters:

has this guy made one accurate prediction? even one? if so, please list it here. 1 million cyber bucks to anyone who rises to the challenge.


truthfully, i don't see many blind followers of Wilcock here. sure, you're gonna get your share but generally the members here are even-minded and balanced; but i think Wilcock is such a polarizing figure that his detractors -- who have every right to be a little disturbed by his claims imho -- are so tightly wound that if a Wilcock supporter so much as blinks their eyes in a way deemed provacative they'll attack ferociously and quickly, assigning characteristics to supporters that don't always exist, like 'sheeple', 'follower' etc....in a misguided attempt to vent their frustration.

[ulli]

Here is an idea, Raf.
Take one of DW's books or a transcript from one of his interviews
and then color-code it.
Highlight all the true statements in blue and all the lies in red.
Until you have a document that looks like a Jacko post.

Then see if a pattern emerges. Check on the blue to red ratio.
Then compare this to possible sun flares, or to eclipses, or to UFO sightings in the area.
Then publish findings from the study. Make a website.
Then convince DW to join the experiment and allow himself to be used as a guinea pig for further studies.
I'm sure he'd be fascinated.

[modwiz]

Who is the actual fool?

The person who warns the Fool they are about to step off of a cliff...

or the person who disregards the warning.

Carmody you aren't a bad guy, you are wasting something that is far more brilliant than the one you are wasting your energy on. Less about bad than waste.

You, are a brat! :p

[modwiz]

sometimes i think a better way to resolve a thread like this is for the participants to declare 'for' or 'against', their reasoning behind it, and also -- crucially -- whether or not they believe Wilcock to have followed them around in a past life perpetually flicking their ears or giving them atomic wedgies. with these critical issues resolved, perhaps this should be a members' *only* allowed post in a limping dog of a thread like this...

ahhhh! censorship! quick, someone call Sociopathadoodoo!

a maniacal lambaster has, to me, equally a distorted perspective as a manaical defender/supporter; though the lambaster will frequently straw man the defender/supporter and act as though he's the only one viewing things through a flawed prism. defender/supporter will return serve and accuse lambaster of same. same script, every time...

i'm not really a Wilcock guy, per se. much of the criticism here has merit, no doubt. but both camps have to realize something:

for the lambasters: not every person who supports Wilcock is a brainwashed, catatonic, cult-following moron. this is an ignorant assumption. take myself, for example: i think many of the things he's discussed has real value, but i won't be scattering flower petals in his path any time soon or serving him exotic meats while wearing a sexy toga and addressing him aristocratically as 'Mr.Wilcock'. i just happen to think he's a smart, knowledgeable guy with something to share -- no more, no less. now, lambasters are almost always the first to start such trite rallying cries as:

"think for yourself!"
"don't follow anybody!"
"*you* are your master!"

...and a whole bunch of other stuff that might be found on a really bad new age birthday card. it's designed to sound magmanimous but is really just a passive-aggressive put down. do we really need to be told these things? it's akin to telling a room full of adults to wipe their fanny after doing a number two. thanks for the tip...but no thanks. my point: you can like and respect Wilcock while still thinking for yourself, not following anybody, and being your own master. to assume otherwise is block thinking; it's nuance deficient.


For the blind supporters:

has this guy made one accurate prediction? even one? if so, please list it here. 1 million cyber bucks to anyone who rises to the challenge.


truthfully, i don't see many blind followers of Wilcock here. sure, you're gonna get your share but generally the members here are even-minded and balanced; but i think Wilcock is such a polarizing figure that his detractors -- who have every right to be a little disturbed by his claims imho -- are so tightly wound that if a Wilcock supporter so much as blinks their eyes in a way deemed provacative they'll attack ferociously and quickly, assigning characteristics to supporters that don't always exist, like 'sheeple', 'follower' etc....in a misguided attempt to vent their frustration.

This is an anti DW thread. Totally fair to have one. Those who like DW should find the going a little rough here. I say let the antis have their thread. It gets real boring when naysayers have no one to talk down to. Skeptics need the believers lest they dissolve in their own acids.

[ulli]

I hope that helps. But to be really honest, Carmody, I know you're not interested in my views or anyone else's really. I know the people round here like you, because they've got used to you probably. But as a relative newcomer, I don't. You come across to me as someone who's a professional agitator and disinformer, who orchestrates the other shills on here to disrupt threads just when they're getting interesting. I wonder how much you get paid to run interference on forums like this one. You would not be allowed on mine.


Wow.

That is just so wrong.

It's been a long long time since I was labeled a 'bad guy'.

Carmody, you have to consider the source. I could get a vacation for calling this one like it is, so I won't.

One of the few on my ignore list.

Funny how mirrors work.

Backing you up here, Modwiz...
This is not the first time that Carmody's personality has been misunderstood.
He inadvertently helps the rest of us recognize who's who.

[danceblackcatdance]

despite everything... got to admit DW's got *a lot* riding on this one, he's really laid his balls on the chopping block this time eh, even the most foolish won't follow anymore if he's wrong about this (surely)...

:becky:

ps. the Source Field book still rocks :cool:

[Mike]

sometimes i think a better way to resolve a thread like this is for the participants to declare 'for' or 'against', their reasoning behind it, and also -- crucially -- whether or not they believe Wilcock to have followed them around in a past life perpetually flicking their ears or giving them atomic wedgies. with these critical issues resolved, perhaps this should be a members' *only* allowed post in a limping dog of a thread like this...

ahhhh! censorship! quick, someone call Sociopathadoodoo!

a maniacal lambaster has, to me, equally a distorted perspective as a manaical defender/supporter; though the lambaster will frequently straw man the defender/supporter and act as though he's the only one viewing things through a flawed prism. defender/supporter will return serve and accuse lambaster of same. same script, every time...

i'm not really a Wilcock guy, per se. much of the criticism here has merit, no doubt. but both camps have to realize something:

for the lambasters: not every person who supports Wilcock is a brainwashed, catatonic, cult-following moron. this is an ignorant assumption. take myself, for example: i think many of the things he's discussed has real value, but i won't be scattering flower petals in his path any time soon or serving him exotic meats while wearing a sexy toga and addressing him aristocratically as 'Mr.Wilcock'. i just happen to think he's a smart, knowledgeable guy with something to share -- no more, no less. now, lambasters are almost always the first to start such trite rallying cries as:

"think for yourself!"
"don't follow anybody!"
"*you* are your master!"

...and a whole bunch of other stuff that might be found on a really bad new age birthday card. it's designed to sound magmanimous but is really just a passive-aggressive put down. do we really need to be told these things? it's akin to telling a room full of adults to wipe their fanny after doing a number two. thanks for the tip...but no thanks. my point: you can like and respect Wilcock while still thinking for yourself, not following anybody, and being your own master. to assume otherwise is block thinking; it's nuance deficient.


For the blind supporters:

has this guy made one accurate prediction? even one? if so, please list it here. 1 million cyber bucks to anyone who rises to the challenge.


truthfully, i don't see many blind followers of Wilcock here. sure, you're gonna get your share but generally the members here are even-minded and balanced; but i think Wilcock is such a polarizing figure that his detractors -- who have every right to be a little disturbed by his claims imho -- are so tightly wound that if a Wilcock supporter so much as blinks their eyes in a way deemed provacative they'll attack ferociously and quickly, assigning characteristics to supporters that don't always exist, like 'sheeple', 'follower' etc....in a misguided attempt to vent their frustration.

This is an anti DW thread. Totally fair to have one. Those who like DW should find the going a little rough here. I say let the antis have there thread. It gets real boring when naysayers have no one to talk down to. Cynics need the believers lest they dissolve in their own acids.



agreed.

and fence sitters like myself get to smugly point out the deficiencies in both parties;) we're all actors, i guess. sometimes 'as#hole' is a fun role to play. ha!

[SilentFeathers]

I doubt if this thread was named "DW's successful predictions" and was intended to focus on that, that it would of turned out any different than it is now....

[9eagle9]

I hope that's not an anagram....(he he)



Who is the actual fool?

The person who warns the Fool they are about to step off of a cliff...

or the person who disregards the warning.

Carmody you aren't a bad guy, you are wasting something that is far more brilliant than the one you are wasting your energy on. Less about bad than waste.

You, are a brat! :p

[ulli]

I'm taking a bit of a risk here because I'm going to bring up this Bible character Jonah.
The man who ran from prophethood, knowing that it would make him look bad, whatever the outcome.
He was supposed to tell the citizens of Nineveh to change their ways or else they would be destroyed by
that Alien they thought was the main god at the time.
Running from God to no avail,
he got swallowed by a whale and spat out on a beach right there where he had to deliver his prophecy,
with the result that the event did not come true.
The story is told in such a way that Jonah's fears are exposed, as well as the whole dilemma he would face
once his prophecy had saved the city and everything continued as normal.

Now, all DW has to do is explain to the world that he is Jonah reincarnated,
and unlike in earlier times, this time round anyone who heard the prophecy would have the power to undo or erase it,
good and bad alike.
With all these divided opinions no wonder we are stuck in a stalemate.
A bunch of stale mates, if you ask me.

[RMorgan]

This is an anti DW thread. Totally fair to have one. Those who like DW should find the going a little rough here. I say let the antis have there thread. It gets real boring when naysayers have no one to talk down to. Cynics need the believers lest they dissolve in their own acids.

Hey Modwiz,

I usually agree with your statements and I consider you a very wise man.

However, I don´t agree with this one.

The "anti" preposition doesn´t make any sense by itself; the word that follows it that gives it sense.

So, what does it mean to be "anti DW"? Is it good? Is it bad?

Well, it would be bad if David Wilcock was beyond doubts a honest and correct person with good intentions; like saying, as an example, anti-Gandhi.

The collected evidence against this character, previously presented on this thread, summarized here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=495297&viewfull=1#post495297), shows that he has lied and is still lying about certain subjects, deliberately or not.

So, if being "anti DW" is, in some cases, the same as being anti-lies and anti-deception, it may not be a bad thing.

Also, I don´t agree with labeling people here as cynics.

Personally, most people here are just good skeptics, which is completely different from being cynics.

A skeptic is a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual, which is totally valid and essential to any knowledge field.

The cynic is just an irrational and unbalanced skeptic, just like the gullible is an irrational and unbalanced believer.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Carmody]

despite everything... got to admit DW's got *a lot* riding on this one, he's really laid his balls on the chopping block this time eh, even the most foolish won't follow anymore if he's wrong about this (surely)...

:becky:

ps. the Source Field book still rocks :cool:

Exactly so, that's all I'm saying.

If one wants to bash, go right ahead.

but Don't inadvertently damage the message of that book, for it is a good solid message.

and if one where to damage that book's sales, then one would certainly be doing service to and for....the very thing they are speaking about trying to end.

And bashing senselessly, does indeed damage the book and it's sales, and most specifically......it's validity to potential readers.

And if one has bashing without balance, and I see it.....then I'm going to smack back -in kind.

[Ishtar]

Modwiz, shouldn't you be out marshalling your elves, or something? It's Midsummer's Eve, the day before Drake's promised D-Day, and he's relying on his supporters, like you, to fend off the orcs and archons as he makes his move. It's up to you to make sure everyone gets corralled into the right pens. So you haven't got time to be spreading your poison potions in here against independent thinkers. We'll just have to be the ones that got away.

:couch2:

[Jeffrey]

This is not about David Wilcock, this is about systems of control. This is not about chosing sides, this is about rising above them. This has nothing to do with proponents versus opponents or supporters versus naysayers, it is about a propogation of influences. The material David Wilcock churns out has many good things to it and a overall feel good kind of message, but there is something in it - an influence - that is not in his or anyone elses best interest. People want it though, want to believe it, want to hear it, and want to defend it because they have bought it and they identify with the message. There is something that resonates inside of them with that core influence - like a tuning fork.

When I was younger (hehe) my grandmum couldn't get her dogs to take their medicine (a pill). So, what she would do is cut off a little piece of a hotdog and conceal the pill inside of it, then the dogs would gobble it down and swallow it whole without really chewing. David has been prescripted and he has taken the prescription given to him by certain influences. He passed down this core influence wrapped up in an intellectually appealing manner (for some) and seasons it with love and light. There is a blue pill in that hotdog (for those who care enough to chew their food). When people try to point that out - that the core influence is bad medicine - to those who have been eating the tainted food they scoff at the idea - "This tastes great, what are you talking about? If you are trying to ruin my meal, then you better be able to whip up something yourself because I'm hungry, and this is my favorite restaraunt!"

They proceed defend the expertise of the cook, his experience, and his efforts in the kitchen. It's not about that. Look at his recipe book, it has an author, and it's not David, but it's in all of his work, and it's all over his blog.

[modwiz]

This is an anti DW thread. Totally fair to have one. Those who like DW should find the going a little rough here. I say let the antis have there thread. It gets real boring when naysayers have no one to talk down to. Cynics need the believers lest they dissolve in their own acids.

Hey Modwiz,

I usually agree with your statements and I consider you a very wise man.

However, I don´t agree with this one.

The "anti" preposition doesn´t make any sense by itself; the word that follows it that gives it sense.

So, what does it mean to be "anti DW"? Is it good? Is it bad?

Well, it would be bad if David Wilcock was beyond doubts a honest and correct person with good intentions; like saying, as an example, anti-Gandhi.

The collected evidence against this character, previously presented on this thread, summarized here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=495297&viewfull=1#post495297), shows that he has lied and is still lying about certain subjects, deliberately or not.

So, if being "anti DW" is, in some cases, the same as being anti-lies and anti-deception, it may not be a bad thing.

Also, I don´t agree with labeling people here as cynics.

Personally, most people here are just good skeptics, which is completely different from being cynics.

A skeptic is a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual, which is totally valid and essential to any knowledge field.

The cynic is just an irrational and unbalanced skeptic, just like the gullible is an irrational and unbalanced believer.

Cheers,

Raf.

Anti DW is neither good or bad. Although the word skeptic is more apt in yours and others' cases, cynic will apply here and there. That said, I will change my original wording. Proper word usage is important to being taken seriously.

Still where agreement can take place in isolation for its mirror counterpart, the opposing view cannot survive on its own. It exists as an opposition only and has no validity without an issue to find some fault with. I find the view that can stand on its own without the need of a counterpoint to feel more wholesome to me. Of course that feeling is subjective, but still I believe it to mean something. In my own private world, of course.

[kersley]

I like David, he reminds me of Edgar Cayce. ;) Seriously the new book is fab..

[gripreaper]

Modwiz, shouldn't you be out marshalling your elves, or something? It's Midsummer's Eve, the day before Drake's promised D-Day, and he's relying on his supporters, like you, to fend off the orcs and archons as he makes his move. It's up to you to make sure everyone gets corralled into the right pens. So you haven't got time to be spreading your poison potions in here against independent thinkers. We'll just have to be the ones that got away.

:couch2:

It is daunting when you consider this is the Midsummer's Nights Dream. It is said, that what you wish for on this night does come true, for the import associated with the energy and the cosmos is that powerful.

Maybe that's why the elite go to Cherokeee Castle and do their late night blood sacrifice ritual, and tap into this energy and look at the timeline they want to see going forward.

We too can create an intention for the future we want to see going forward. Each of us can influence the outcome.

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

I know I´m not a moderator or something, but I´d like to sincerely ask some of you to stop making personal attacks.

It´s fine to get off-topic sometimes, but not like this.

Those who believe in Wilcock, post his legitimate claims and predictions and them substantiate them or show evidence.

Those who don´t believe Wilcock, post his false claims and predictions, showing evidence as well.



When I was younger (hehe) my grandmum couldn't get her dogs to take their medicine (a pill). So, what she would do is cut off a little piece of a hotdog and conceal the pill inside of it, then the dogs would gobble it down and swallow it whole without really chewing.

Fortunately, some dogs are smart enough to learn to separate the pill from the hotdog and then it gets pretty hard to fool them with this trick again! ;)

Raf.

[SilentFeathers]

Hey folks,

I know I´m not a moderator or something, but I´d like to sincerely ask some of you to stop making personal attacks.

It´s fine to get off-topic sometimes, but not like this.

Those who believe in Wilcock, post his legitimate claims and predictions and them substantiate them or show evidence.

Those who don´t believe Wilcock, post his false claims and predictions, showing evidence as well.

Raf.

I think you pretty much just killed the thread......no one can think of any legitimate claims, pretty much all the illegitimate claims have been mentioned, and if no personal attacks are allowed, well, what left is there????? :)

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Is DW telling the truth? Have his predictions been accurate?

I don't know.

I have given up my search for truth and I'm now looking for a good fantasy.

[modwiz]

I hope that's not an anagram....(he he)



Who is the actual fool?

The person who warns the Fool they are about to step off of a cliff...

or the person who disregards the warning.

Carmody you aren't a bad guy, you are wasting something that is far more brilliant than the one you are wasting your energy on. Less about bad than waste.

You, are a brat! :p

Consider your hopes dashed. :p

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

I know I´m not a moderator or something, but I´d like to sincerely ask some of you to stop making personal attacks.

It´s fine to get off-topic sometimes, but not like this.

Those who believe in Wilcock, post his legitimate claims and predictions and them substantiate them or show evidence.

Those who don´t believe Wilcock, post his false claims and predictions, showing evidence as well.

Raf.

I think you pretty much just killed the thread......no one can think of any legitimate claims, pretty much all the illegitimate claims have been mentioned, and if no personal attacks are allowed, well, what left is there????? :)

Hey mate,

Personally, I consider this case closed for a long time. There´s solid evidence (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=495297&viewfull=1#post495297) against him.

The only way to validate David Wilcock and his claims would be to show any evidence, solid counterarguments or to properly refute the collected evidence against him.

However, no one was able to do it so far.

Again, I will refer to this graphic as a way to put this discussion back on tracks:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg/707px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png

Cheers,

Raf.

[modwiz]

Modwiz, shouldn't you be out marshalling your elves, or something? It's Midsummer's Eve, the day before Drake's promised D-Day, and he's relying on his supporters, like you, to fend off the orcs and archons as he makes his move. It's up to you to make sure everyone gets corralled into the right pens. So you haven't got time to be spreading your poison potions in here against independent thinkers. We'll just have to be the ones that got away.

:couch2:

It is daunting when you consider this is the Midsummer's Nights Dream. It is said, that what you wish for on this night does come true, for the import associated with the energy and the cosmos is that powerful.

Maybe that's why the elite go to Cherokeee Castle and do their late night blood sacrifice ritual, and tap into this energy and look at the timeline they want to see going forward.

We too can create an intention for the future we want to see going forward. Each of us can influence the outcome.

Very positive post here and I share the sentiment. I would have it that even hags are transformed into fair maidens and the bad breath of toothless mouths be freshened.

Jumpin' Jack Flash
It's a gas, gas, gas.

[ulli]

Hey folks,

I know I´m not a moderator or something, but I´d like to sincerely ask some of you to stop making personal attacks.

It´s fine to get off-topic sometimes, but not like this.

Those who believe in Wilcock, post his legitimate claims and predictions and them substantiate them or show evidence.

Those who don´t believe Wilcock, post his false claims and predictions, showing evidence as well.



When I was younger (hehe) my grandmum couldn't get her dogs to take their medicine (a pill). So, what she would do is cut off a little piece of a hotdog and conceal the pill inside of it, then the dogs would gobble it down and swallow it whole without really chewing.

Fortunately, some dogs are smart enough to learn to separate the pill from the hotdog and then it gets pretty hard to fool them with this trick again! ;)

Raf.

...and not to forget, some of us have learnt a few tricks,
how to eat the hotdog and spit out the pill before swallowing it.

DW's lies and flaws are so blatant that they are easily seen for what they are.
But maybe not by everyone...so they learn their lesson in hindsight.

I've read a lot of books which have predictions in them which never materialized,
and some I value so highly that I still have them sitting on my shelves. One of them which I bought in the seventies
has the pyramidal inch measuring the Queens Chamber at 1844, and the King's Chamber at 2000.
Now David rearranged everything. King's Chamber 2012. Hello?
He gets his mind messed with. But his mind is such that he also gets good stuff coming through.
And the good stuff is what we here want to identify and maybe allow ourselves to be inspired by.
P.S. i don't know anyone who does NOT lie.....

[9eagle9]

It's not a stalemate if you remove yourself from it all together. Stalemate is part of the game, remove yourself from the game and the sky is the limit....



I'm taking a bit of a risk here because I'm going to bring up this Bible character Jonah.
The man who ran from prophethood, knowing that it would make him look bad, whatever the outcome.
He was supposed to tell the citizens of Nineveh to change their ways or else they would be destroyed by
that Alien they thought was the main god at the time.
Running from God to no avail,
he got swallowed by a whale and spat out on a beach right there where he had to deliver his prophecy,
with the result that the event did not come true.
The story is told in such a way that Jonah's fears are exposed, as well as the whole dilemma he would face
once his prophecy had saved the city and everything continued as normal.

Now, all DW has to do is explain to the world that he is Jonah reincarnated,
and unlike in earlier times, this time round anyone who heard the prophecy would have the power to undo or erase it,
good and bad alike.
With all these divided opinions no wonder we are stuck in a stalemate.
A bunch of stale mates, if you ask me.

[Mike]

Hey folks,

I know I´m not a moderator or something, but I´d like to sincerely ask some of you to stop making personal attacks.

It´s fine to get off-topic sometimes, but not like this.

Those who believe in Wilcock, post his legitimate claims and predictions and them substantiate them or show evidence.

Those who don´t believe Wilcock, post his false claims and predictions, showing evidence as well.



When I was younger (hehe) my grandmum couldn't get her dogs to take their medicine (a pill). So, what she would do is cut off a little piece of a hotdog and conceal the pill inside of it, then the dogs would gobble it down and swallow it whole without really chewing.

Fortunately, some dogs are smart enough to learn to separate the pill from the hotdog and then it gets pretty hard to fool them with this trick again! ;)

Raf.


hi Raf,

maybe i'm just being semantically picky here....and if i am, please forgive me.

i think the wording you've chosen might contribute to some of the misunderstandings here...
"those who *believe* in Wilcock..."
"those who *don't believe* in Wilcock..."

the emphasized words here completely disregard the infinite shades of grey inherent in the debate. to paint all opinion with such a broad stroke sucks all the nuance out of the discussion and emphasizes the polarization.

it's not so much to do with 'for'/'against' or 'pro'/'con', it's much more to do with basic common sense in my opinion (ie..."Wilcock said this and it is reasonable and factually true; he said this and it's wildly irresponsible and borderline asanine." conclusion: here we have a man who is sometimes right and sometimes wrong, is flawed and sometimes egotistic; but is also sometimes brilliant and occasionally enlightening)

in other words: he's human. for me, this is good enough and the discussion is over. but Modwiz is right: a critical Wilcock thread is entirely fair; however, it might be prudent to keep in mind that this man that is getting dissected is a real-live-blood-n-flesh human being -- not an abstract notion or cartoon character -- and his livelihood depends on his reputation, a reputation that is carved mainly from forums like ours. many will say he's ruined his reputation himself -- and they might be right -- but one must post responsibly and nobly and with dignity when what one says can affect another man's way of making a living. i'm not discouraging criticism, i just think that tapping away on a keyboard for extended periods of time gives one a sense of reality amnesia, a forgetting that we're dealing with real people, like ourselves.

sometimes words read literally on a screen *seem* objective, seem reasonable, but sometimes the *spirit* in which they're delivered is quite different, and quite clear, especially if it's in a cynical spirit. when called out on it, said poster will refer to the literal interpretation of the post, hiding behind it -- but those with any kind of antenna can sense the real intent there; and here's where we run into the trouble and the straw man accusations...

Raf, for the record, i've found you pretty reasonable and even in your criticism, and this post isn't aimed at you. it's just a general statement to all those involved on critical threads such as these -- which at their best are educational, and at their worst slanderous --to perhaps consider the *spirit* of your post before you hit that 'post quick reply' button.

[ulli]

Ah, but what about hovering close-by and still watch the game?
I removes myself when I is ready; not one moment sooner.



It's not a stalemate if you remove yourself from it all together. Stalemate is part of the game, remove yourself from the game and the sky is the limit....



I'm taking a bit of a risk here because I'm going to bring up this Bible character Jonah.
The man who ran from prophethood, knowing that it would make him look bad, whatever the outcome.
He was supposed to tell the citizens of Nineveh to change their ways or else they would be destroyed by
that Alien they thought was the main god at the time.
Running from God to no avail,
he got swallowed by a whale and spat out on a beach right there where he had to deliver his prophecy,
with the result that the event did not come true.
The story is told in such a way that Jonah's fears are exposed, as well as the whole dilemma he would face
once his prophecy had saved the city and everything continued as normal.

Now, all DW has to do is explain to the world that he is Jonah reincarnated,
and unlike in earlier times, this time round anyone who heard the prophecy would have the power to undo or erase it,
good and bad alike.
With all these divided opinions no wonder we are stuck in a stalemate.
A bunch of stale mates, if you ask me.

[9eagle9]

Well a psychic with credibility has predictions that come to pass. A psychic is only as good as their last prediction that has come to pass.

A self proclaimed psychic who doesn't have predictions that come to pass, probably isn't a psychic. I can tell myself and everyone else that I am the June 2012 playboy bunny of the month but until you see me posing buck naked in that publication you aren't going to have much evidence to go by to prove my future declarations and you are right to wait for evidence.

Pretty simple.

Psychic is as the word implies--the ability to navigate and interpret what is going on in the psyche. Psychic doesn't' mean prophet. Prophet means prophet.

Psychic doesn't imply the ability to know world affairs, government, ufo's and the economy. If one wants to predict the economy one can and should be economist and not a psychic.if one wants to predict world affairs be a politician.



Is DW telling the truth? Have his predictions been accurate?

I don't know.

I have given up my search for truth and I'm now looking for a good fantasy.

[Fred Steeves]

...and not to forget, some of us have learnt a few tricks,
how to eat the hotdog and spit out the pill before swallowing it.

Our 3 dogs are now on to that old trick as well...Damnit...

Now wait just a minute here. Ulli, tell me you haven't been telling them the secrets of life behind me back.:doh:

Why, this would explain everything!

[ulli]

...and not to forget, some of us have learnt a few tricks,
how to eat the hotdog and spit out the pill before swallowing it.

Our 3 dogs are now on to that old trick as well...damnit...

Now wait just a minute here. Ulli, tell me you haven't been telling them the secrets of life behind me back.:doh:

Dogs are telepathic. They are currently learning how to dematerialize their chains, so watch out.

[Fred Steeves]

I can tell myself and everyone else that I am the June 2012 playboy bunny of the month but until you see me posing buck naked in that publication you aren't going to have much evidence to go by to prove my future declarations and you are right to wait for evidence.

Pretty simple.


This is true eagle, evidence please?

[9eagle9]

And some have learnt who is dishing out the tricks.

The game is expansive, and all encompassing and it is all composed of tricks.

[ulli]

No one gets a clear vision, ever, only hints.
Astrology provides dates, but not outcomes.
These are specific dates for conditions that can act as forks in the road
Outcome is determined by an individual's or the collective intent
Psychic flashes are different still,
they might be given as warnings, from EDs, so as to prompt one to change direction
when the event then does NOT happen it is because the warning worked.

Inspiration is different altogether
and also intuition, dreams, visions.
All have to be understood properly, for what they are, in a greater context.

[Anchor]

despite everything... got to admit DW's got *a lot* riding on this one, he's really laid his balls on the chopping block this time eh, even the most foolish won't follow anymore if he's wrong about this (surely)...

ps. the Source Field book still rocks :cool:

Parts of it certainly do rock.

I am nearly through it.

I like how he has rooted out and presented the research of various scientists - I am not compelled by HIS reasoning, but you know, given the data, I may have come to the same conclusions.

Some of it is even testable.

My suspicion is that this book has resulted in things being done (sophisticated, with detailed long term planning) that will take him down, facilitated by the Achilles heel of his ego and self image.

[LarryC]

Is DW telling the truth? Have his predictions been accurate?

I don't know.

I have given up my search for truth and I'm now looking for a good fantasy.

The trouble with all the focus on DW's predictions is that it makes it sound like he's primarily a psychic. While he does make predictions, that's only a small portion of what he does. Most of Source Field Investigations, for example, is about cutting edge scientific discoveries. Too much of the criticism is simplistic, and assumes that any mistakes someone has made discredits everything he's ever said.

[9eagle9]

Uhm...David by his own self admission is a psychic. It's what he's gamboled and invested blind adherence from his followers on from the beginning--that he claims he is psychic...when its observable that he's not. Because people are basically stupid about such things.

His adherents apparently have low standards when it comes to psychic.

No I absolutely do not blame DW for going into research when his integrity as a psychic crossed into the -.0 realms. Nor would I have blamed David if he became the newest aerb-0-size guru.

[astrid]

Personally i find this whole black and white dance so tiresome,
when it's the space in the middle where all the great stuff always happens.

[ThePythonicCow]

Hey folks,

I know I´m not a moderator or something, but I´d like to sincerely ask some of you to stop making personal attacks.

It´s fine to get off-topic sometimes, but not like this.
:nod:


Our 3 dogs are now on to that old trick as well...Damnit...
Are your dogs browsing the forum while you're out of the room?

[Carmody]

despite everything... got to admit DW's got *a lot* riding on this one, he's really laid his balls on the chopping block this time eh, even the most foolish won't follow anymore if he's wrong about this (surely)...

ps. the Source Field book still rocks :cool:

Parts of it certainly do rock.

I am nearly through it.

I like how he has rooted out and presented the research of various scientists - I am not compelled by HIS reasoning, but you know, given the data, I may have come to the same conclusions.

Some of it is even testable.

My suspicion is that this book has resulted in things being done (sophisticated, with detailed long term planning) that will take him down, facilitated by the Achilles heel of his ego and self image.

That was my conclusion. That the moment the book was published, that the efforts went into a high gear.

Makes me wonder what Lynn McTaggart has gone through, if anything at all. (She wrote a similar, but possibly more thorough book called 'the field')

[Carmody]

No one gets a clear vision, ever, only hints.
Astrology provides dates, but not outcomes.
These are specific dates for conditions that can act as forks in the road
Outcome is determined by an individual's or the collective intent
Psychic flashes are different still,
they might be given as warnings, from EDs, so as to prompt one to change direction
when the event then does NOT happen it is because the warning worked.

Inspiration is different altogether
and also intuition, dreams, visions.
All have to be understood properly, for what they are, in a greater context.

I'm pretty good at future events, but the whole darned thing is allegorical in the extreme, in every case I've ever heard of.

in most cases, it can't really be put together until after the fact.

and the bigger point is:

that my mind, my position, my colorings of the moment and time, whatever that is....it becomes the shape of the allegorical connection to the coming reality.


If I was having a flowery day, then my allegorical dream of the future would be all flowery oriented allegorical aspects.

if I was being all flustered and full of apocalyptic fear, and reading all my back issues of 'guns and ammo' magazine....then... my allegorical dream or vision would be all apocalyptic and full of guns and ammo....

it really is that simple.

[ulli]

Personally i find this whole black and white dance so tiresome,
when it's the space in the middle where all the great stuff always happens.

I couldn't agree more. And often that middle is between the lines and also between the eyes.

[ulli]

despite everything... got to admit DW's got *a lot* riding on this one, he's really laid his balls on the chopping block this time eh, even the most foolish won't follow anymore if he's wrong about this (surely)...

ps. the Source Field book still rocks :cool:

Parts of it certainly do rock.

I am nearly through it.

I like how he has rooted out and presented the research of various scientists - I am not compelled by HIS reasoning, but you know, given the data, I may have come to the same conclusions.

Some of it is even testable.

My suspicion is that this book has resulted in things being done (sophisticated, with detailed long term planning) that will take him down, facilitated by the Achilles heel of his ego and self image.

That was my conclusion. That the moment the book was published, that the efforts went into a high gear.

Makes me wonder what Lynn McTaggart has gone through, if anything at all. (She wrote a similar, but possibly more thorough book called 'the field')

I just had this idea how DW who is Pisces, might operate.
That when he writes his books he is sitting alone at home, and collecting his inspiration from the ether, much in the same way all artists have done.
But when standing in front of an audience which is mostly when all those ego statements of his come out, he is getting his verbal flow fed by the group ego coming at him from the very people in the auditorium.
Most Pisceans are not very advanced when it comes to identity so much stuff flows through them...higher as well as lower dimensional stuff.
Same could be the case when he presents the audience's wishful thinking as "fact". Many Pisceans I have met have this inner insecurity which suddenly switches into pompousness but only when I observe them in a group or when they are intoxicated.
In a one on one setting they are very very kind and attentive, provided they are sober.

It seems to me as if he needs to constantly remind himself of self importance being the key to success, and he may well be right there to a ertain degree. He is from LA, a city where OTT reigns.

When Carmody says this stuff he is talking about needs to reach a larger audience I have to agree. Of course, not the vanity part, but then again, this might well be how it has to be just to keep his 3 D life together. He is still learning and evolving in the identity area, while he is already advanced in the area of blending his conscious with the collective unconscious.

Just like the hostilities of those who wish to see him fail are a reflection of their own issues, and perhaps had overly rigid upbringings forcing them the hard way to develop character and integrity with their parents and teachers voices still strong in their heads.

[Anchor]

Ulli, you may be right, but to my eyes there are some pretty cringe making examples of his ego in the book :)

[ulli]

Ulli, you may be right, but to my eyes there are some pretty cringe making examples of his ego in the book :)

I haven't read the book. So there, too?
So I think I'll pass then...don't think I want any more DW cringes than I've already had to suffer while listening to him talk.

[9eagle9]

And a truly transcendence person as David strains to put himself across as would know that certain limitations that each astrological arrangement of each person that can be transcended. Call them flaws or weaknesses but they can be overcome. And one can expand beyond their previously known limitations if one cares to address them. The ego can eagerly grasp onto certain aspects of a individual arrangement and use it as an excuse or a crutch.


" I can't refrain from drama because I am a Leo."

Well yes actually one can, Leo is not a cinematic ball and chain one wears around their ankle.

The ego re-translates everything as it sees fit that it observes in the non material world--for a variety of reasons.

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

I think some people here clearly don´t understand the nuances behind the act of making a mistake.

Making a mistake is normal. Everybody makes mistakes sometimes.

However, what defines character, is what you do after you realize you´ve made a mistake.

A humble, honest man, makes a mistake and then apologizes for it and try not to make a similar mistake again.

Clearly, this is not David Wilcock´s case.

He has not only made several serious mistakes, but he´s still insisting on these mistakes.

He predicted ascension for the year 2000. Nothing happened. Now he predicts ascension for 2012. When nothing happens, he´ll probably just change it to another date.

He claims to be the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. He wrote a book about it, where he says the Edgar Cayce Association, A.R.E, confirmed he´s Cayce´s reincarnation which is a blatant lie, because in their website, they clearly say that many persons claimed to be Cayce´s reincarnation but none of them could answer a single of the several secret questions that Edgar Cayce left to prevent future frauds using his name.

Now, David Wilcock is writing another book about being Cayce´s reincarnation!

If this is not enough, David Wilcock is being accused of copyright violation by persons like William Henry. [LINK] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW7uSzeRAwE)

Even Bill Ryan told us somewhere along this thread that David used Project Camelot information several times without giving the proper credits.

Now, when it comes to his copyrights, David is absolutely relentless! He takes down every single video using his name or "original material" without authorization on youtube.

So, a man makes the same mistakes, over and over again, uses other person´s materials without giving the proper credit or asking for authorization, making it look like these materials are fruits of his own intellect, and then I´m supposed to trust him?

This is too much folks...

Of course, all of you have the right to believe anyone you want but, at least for me, this case is completely closed.

Raf.

[Sierra]

Still where agreement can take place in isolation for its mirror counterpart, the opposing view cannot survive on its own. It exists as an opposition only and has no validity without an issue to find some fault with. I find the view that can stand on its own without the need of a counterpoint to feel more wholesome to me. Of course that feeling is subjective, but still I believe it to mean something. In my own private world, of course.

Not quite that subjective a feeling perhaps Modwiz, since we tend to see the same posters only able to take an oppositional view across threads. Only able to attack what is already there.

It is safer of course to be that way. Less wholesome, but safer.

[LarryC]

I think we are indeed seeing signs of cult behavior here -the Anti-David Wilcock cult! Some of you are far more obsessed with him than any of his "followers"!

[RMorgan]

Still where agreement can take place in isolation for its mirror counterpart, the opposing view cannot survive on its own. It exists as an opposition only and has no validity without an issue to find some fault with. I find the view that can stand on its own without the need of a counterpoint to feel more wholesome to me. Of course that feeling is subjective, but still I believe it to mean something. In my own private world, of course.

Not quite that subjective a feeling perhaps Modwiz, since we tend to see the same posters only able to take an oppositional view across threads. Only able to attack what is already there.

It is safer of course to be that way. Less wholesome, but safer.

In my opinion, this argument is completely pointless.

This is just part of the refutation and counter-argumentation mechanics. You can´t refute any argument or thesis that doesn´t exist; this is obvious.

The whole point of a discussion is to present and analyze a subject under different perspectives and points of view.

Some people seem to think that opposing or disagreeing with a subject is negative or less important than agreeing with this subject. This is, of course, a reasoning mistake.

Disagreement is just as valid and important as agreement. I have no doubt about that.

Real knowledge simply can´t be achieved without disagreement, opposition and questioning. That´s a historical fact.

Saying that opposing to something is safer than simply believing and accepting something without questioning is a fallacy. This is also a historical fact.

Raf.


I think we are indeed seeing signs of cult behavior here -the Anti-David Wilcock cult! Some of you are far more obsessed with him than any of his "followers"!

Yes. I´m obsessed, but not with him or anyone else.

I´m obsessed with the truth and, fortunately, I´m not alone.

You can´t find the truth without first unmasking the lies. If this includes David Wilcock, well, I can´t do nothing about it because he was the one who put himself in this position.

Raf.

[Sierra]

Still where agreement can take place in isolation for its mirror counterpart, the opposing view cannot survive on its own. It exists as an opposition only and has no validity without an issue to find some fault with. I find the view that can stand on its own without the need of a counterpoint to feel more wholesome to me. Of course that feeling is subjective, but still I believe it to mean something. In my own private world, of course.

Not quite that subjective a feeling perhaps Modwiz, since we tend to see the same posters only able to take an oppositional view across threads. Only able to attack what is already there.

It is safer of course to be that way. Less wholesome, but safer.

In my opinion, this argument is completely pointless.

This is just part of the refutation and counter-argumentation mechanics. You can´t refute any argument or thesis that doesn´t exist; this is obvious.

The whole point of a discussion is to present and analyze a subject under different perspectives and points of view.

Some people seem to think that opposing or disagreeing with a subject is negative or less important than agreeing with this subject. This is, of course, a reasoning mistake.

Disagreement is just as valid and important as agreement. I have no doubt about that.

Real knowledge simply can´t be achieved without disagreement, opposition and questioning. That´s a historical fact.

Saying that opposing to something is safer than simply believing and accepting something without questioning is a fallacy. This is also a historical fact.

Raf.

Oh dear. You didn't understand what I said Raf. Think variety, rather than One Note Wonders, that only post negativity to another point of view but have no views of their own to post. Balance perhaps is a better way to say it. Not being stuck only in one mode ...

[RMorgan]

Oh dear. You didn't understand what I said Raf. Think variety, rather than One Note Wonders, that only post negativity to another point of view but have no views of their own to post. Balance perhaps is a better way to say it. Not being stuck only in one mode ...

Sierra, I´m sorry for misunderstanding your argument, sincerely.

Now I understand and agree with it.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Sierra]

Oh dear. You didn't understand what I said Raf. Think variety, rather than One Note Wonders, that only post negativity to another point of view but have no views of their own to post. Balance perhaps is a better way to say it. Not being stuck only in one mode ...

Sierra, I´m sorry for misunderstanding your argument, sincerely.

Now I understand and agree with it.

Cheers,

Raf.

No problemo Raf :hug:

Sierra

[ulli]

If I may add something...
and while also staying on the topic...using poor DW as an example.
All controversy creates a field...something dynamic, that has sparks flying.
So just as the duality of someone's character..in this case DW who alternates between common sense and delusion, between truth and lies...
so also will sparks of the clashing opinions create an even greater field, thus attracting a larger crowd as the ripples expand.
Whether there is intelligent design behind this I don't know. I'm pretty sure that just as David's following is growing so every opinion about him is being monitored,
as the real commodity being harvested is the energy generated.

Whether some people are compulsive in their aversion of DW out of jealousy that his books are actually selling,
or whether they need to follow a fixed self-image that demands that they shoot down liars,
or whether they really really care about protecting others from their gullibility...

or whether the defenders see him as a messiah...or only feel that he deserves to be given a chance-
all this is immaterial in view of the greater picture:

Which could be the harvesting of the fruits of duality.

Truth remains what it is, whether relative or absolute...in the end the only reality is how many people are actually getting better
at discerning what is really happening as far as their own awakening process is going and discovering that something very wholesome is going on
mixed in with the apparent tempest.

[9eagle9]

We are so lacking in compassion we so enjoy watching others drink the kool-aid.

For myself I very well know there is nothing I can do for people who want to hand their minds over on a silver platter. For the observer to think twice and not get sucked into the koolaid pitcher that is the person who may be worth sharing a world with. Let someone know it's okay not fall for this ignorant, immature spiritually bereft means of finger painting with someone elses feces and they don't have to abide by some absurd sense of social programming to pretend its anything other than what it is.



I think we are indeed seeing signs of cult behavior here -the Anti-David Wilcock cult! Some of you are far more obsessed with him than any of his "followers"!

[Sierra]

Truth remains what it is, whether relative or absolute...in the end the only reality is how many people are actually getting better
at discerning what is really happening as far as their own awakening process is going and discovering that something very wholesome is going on
mixed in with the apparent tempest.

And it is SO much easier to discern what is going on when one is not being beat over the head with a big stick. I mean ... we ALL have had the experience of mad infatuation with new knowledge and eventually discarding that which no longer fits with our growth and increased understanding down the line.

Being beat over the head, merely causes one to duck and cover, not sit up and listen. It is self defeating. It aborts the growth process. All one has to do is revisit old polarized threads and see how rarely an opinion was altered by a big stick ... shut up maybe, driven away maybe, but not actually convinced. And the flack sure gets in the way of a conversation that is a discussion rather than a debate by those already frozen in their opinions.

Those who demand perfection in others ... are sure to be eventually disappointed, always LOL!

Because life is a sloppy old mess.

[Unified Serenity]

This idea that some people always post negative is another tactic imho to stop true discussion because if one continues to disagree about the methods and message of David Wilcock then per Sierra, that person is obviously just negative and seeking to vent on every thread. It's effective in shutting down threads some do not like, but I don't think it will be effective on this thread. I have seen those who are negative about DW are positive on other threads, which interestingly are the threads that those who tend to defend and extol David Wilcock's virtues seem to post negative oh, excuse me, views which disagree with the OP.

It appears that we have thought camps here that tend to see issues in similar ways either for or against and they post accordingly. I have not seen those who post negatively who tend to disagree with me become labelled as negative or having an agenda. We each bring our own views, experiences, and that is what we are seeing expressed.

[Carmody]

We are so lacking in compassion we so enjoy watching others drink the kool-aid.

For myself I very well know there is nothing I can do for people who want to hand their minds over on a silver platter. For the observer to think twice and not get sucked into the koolaid pitcher that is the person who may be worth sharing a world with. Let someone know it's okay not fall for this ignorant, immature spiritually bereft means of finger painting with someone elses feces and they don't have to abide by some absurd sense of social programming to pretend its anything other than what it is.



I think we are indeed seeing signs of cult behavior here -the Anti-David Wilcock cult! Some of you are far more obsessed with him than any of his "followers"!

IMO, and IME, your position and expression is too harsh to be useful for more than a few, but that's fine. Perhaps it is more personal than it should be.

IMO, It isn't a popularity contest, as we may understand such a term.

This is not a Wilcock forum and the only thread that I see right now, is a bashing thread, so what is the big beef? If you want an audience in that direction, with regard to effectiveness of your seemingly desirous effects (I'm saying it that way regarding not putting words in your mouth) - find one, for I don't see it here. (and no, I don't mean go away. Just this one aspect or point mentioned)

[9eagle9]

My remarks are really not all that harsh for those who realize they are not living in Disneyland.

They made be a tad starchy for someone who refers to themself as a servant.

Be careful what you serve.

It is forum that is arranges towards ferreting out frauds. If Wilcocks behaviors have placed him squarely in that climate its still not really the observers fault. If you are waiting for this anti-programming climate to change it won't. At least not the way you'd like it to.

[RMorgan]

It is forum that is arranges towards ferreting out frauds. If Wilcocks behaviors have placed him squarely in that climate its still not really the observers fault. If you are waiting for this anti-programming climate to change it won't. At least not the way you'd like it to.

I couldn´t agree more, my friend.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Unified Serenity]

Maybe a new bumper sticker needs to be made, "David Wilcock I like, it's his followers that scare me"

[9eagle9]

Will see if it fits over my current bumper sticker that says "My other car is a UFO piloted by Jesus"

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And of course " My car looks like a pile of **** because I own Thoroughbreds"

[Sierra]

This idea that some people always post negative is another tactic imho to stop true discussion because if one continues to disagree about the methods and message of David Wilcock then per Sierra, that person is obviously just negative and seeking to vent on every thread. It's effective in shutting down threads some do not like, but I don't think it will be effective on this thread. I have seen those who are negative about DW are positive on other threads, which interestingly are the threads that those who tend to defend and extol David Wilcock's virtues seem to post negative oh, excuse me, views which disagree with the OP.

It appears that we have thought camps here that tend to see issues in similar ways either for or against and they post accordingly. I have not seen those who post negatively who tend to disagree with me become labelled as negative or having an agenda. We each bring our own views, experiences, and that is what we are seeing expressed.

Huh? <bursting out laughing> I've never said a word about David Wilcock! You mean I'm bad for talking on a thread where one must bash to belong? Nar! Whatta loada!

[RMorgan]

If you think this is bashing, Sierra, you should check out what people talk about David Wilcock in other forums like Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions.

You can´t even mention Wicock´s name in these forums.

PA is one of the few big forums where people haven´t achieved a consensus about him yet.

Anyway, in my opinion, most people here are simply investigating, examining, analyzing, questioning and studying the subject, which is a very good thing.

However, unfortunately, some people only come here to bash, which only derails the thread; I have to agree with that.

Cheers,

Raf.

[PurpleLama]

...my current bumper sticker that says "My other car is a UFO piloted by Jesus"


I have got to get me one of those.

[LarryC]

<< If you think this is bashing, Sierra, you should check out what people talk about David Wilcock in other forums like Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions.

You can´t even mention Wicock´s name in these forums. >>

Forums that are well known to be full of -if not run by- disinfo agents. I've spent a lot of time at GLP so I know all about it. The new management there (going back close to 10 years now, so not really so new) is widely believed to be a front for TPTB. I've heard similar things about ATS. So the fact that they debunk or defame someone like DW, if anything, is a point in his favor.

[RMorgan]

<< If you think this is bashing, Sierra, you should check out what people talk about David Wilcock in other forums like Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions.

You can´t even mention Wicock´s name in these forums. >>

Forums that are well known to be full of -if not run by- disinfo agents. I've spent a lot of time at GLP so I know all about it. The new management there (going back close to 10 years now, so not really so new) is widely believed to be a front for TPTB. I've heard similar things about ATS. So the fact that they debunk or defame someone like DW, if anything, is a point in his favor.

To me, it doesn´t matter. The whole internet structure is actually owned by TPTB, which doesn´t necessarily mean everything on the internet is corrupted.

What matters to me is the consistency of the arguments and/or evidences presented.

There´s a lot of bashing in GLP indeed and, personally, I don´t even like that forum, but there are also some very well written and concise posts.

Now, I believe ATS to be a serious forum with a lot of good and intelligent members. The only reason I don´t post there is because of the terrible interface.

There´s a lot of people who say the same things about Project Avalon but, saying and proving are different things.

Raf.

[Carmody]

David's book, 'the source field investigations', is heading into it's 6th (hardcover) pressing.

[9eagle9]

Negative reminds of those reactive phrases that people used to his when things just weren't going their way or something occurs that appears out of their natural order:

The hysterical old hag that pops up in the dark ages themed movie in the midst of some moral/ spiritual quandary that hisses "He has Lucifer in him".

(Now they hiss "that's negative!")

and that used to settle things and the person in question would be summarily stoned to death (Oh gee, he has Lucifer in him that's what's wrong) but that sort of **** doesn't fly anymore...

for the people that came out of the dark ages anyway.

[Unified Serenity]

Reminds me of SNL skit Church Lady. Only watch it with the idea of spoofing "That's Negative"!

EewQzi4RhGQ

[9eagle9]

you tube disabled that video because of your negativity.

[Unified Serenity]

This one had me laughing too

PcjZtsFU5Z4

[Unified Serenity]

This is a fun look at how we disagree... well some of us:

INMxCynadlI

[Cartomancer]

Hmm. Its June 24 and I haven't been arrested yet. I might as well continue my pillaging of the world unmolested. No one's going to do a damn thing.

[Pam]

In response to David Wilcock-Drake scenario; One of the things I look at if I am deciding the validity or at least sincerity of what I am being told is to look at the source. While reading some of the Drake interviews his focus on himself and his personal story is a true give away. It seems that if someone was truly placed in the altruistic position of providing all of this world saving info: self promotion would be at the bottom of the list. I don't know if this man is delusional, a scam artist or has another motive but it gives credence to the desperation of so many to blindly believe this stuff.

The other thing is the logic of the scenario they describe- I won't go into detail as it has already been done here.. Let us imagine that this banking cartel is arrested in mass. The implication that I get from reading Davids' blog is that this is going to "save the world". This seems so comic book simplistic. Without a change of consciousness it might make a mighty ripple, but there will be 20 new cartel wannabe's to replace the ones arrested by "the good guys"...I do understand that deep desire for change. Many of us are willing to believe just about anything that offers hope out of desperation. On the other hand if this scenario defies logic and common sense do you really want to set yourself up for disapointment?
The whole David -Drake thing seems like two kids playing spy and enjoying the adrenalin rush that comes with it..Personally, I don't think David is being consciously deceptive but that strong ego of his is leading the way....just my 2 cents.....I also want to say that is he is a great educator in many areas, I am sorry that he feels the need to be so much more...............

[Cartomancer]

Now the "deadline" has been pushed back two weeks. I guess the logistics and coordination needed to change the world takes a lot of time and there will be many false starts..........................Not. Is it just me or is this the third or fourth time the deadline has been changed? Meanwhile I read that Wilcock has sequestered himself somewhere in N. Europe and is not addressing this scenario any longer. Has anyone else heard this?

I did see this at divinecosmos:

I DECIDED TO 'QUARANTINE' THE TOXIC EMAILS

Roughly since the time I arrived in the Netherlands, I am no longer reading hateful / critical comments. Not even one. Everything is now being filtered by the moderators before I ever get a look at it.

I will continue to do my best to provide the highest quality investigations, and use my own common sense, intuition and hard work to produce results that I feel are worthy of your time to peruse.

I used to get an independent email with each comment that was submitted, and read those emails as they came in. Not anymore.

Particularly since I picked up the Financial Tyranny investigation last November, the hate has become so overpowering and voluminous that it is absolutely vital that I avoid exposing myself to it in order continue to be able to write on the Internet at all -- at least for now.

Now that I will no longer have to see verbal abuse for writing a brief update, I will take the numerous suggestions that have come in to "keep you in the loop," even if I don't have time to say much, rather than to just say nothing.

I must say that having lived the last month without constant abuse has been a truly marvelous, soul-renewing experience for me -- and has given me the space to integrate my friend's death.

Jeez, maybe if I hide my head in the sand I'll start to believe my own B.S. again

[9eagle9]

The power of the 'warrior'.

[Anchor]

Jeez, maybe if I hide my head in the sand I'll start to believe my own B.S. again

I am not sure this is fair comment.

I remember reading somewhere where he gave some ideas of the kind of abuse he was getting. It was pretty vitriolic, hateful raw stuff - and not usually related to the topics of discussion. I think ignoring that crap is a great idea.

[the_flyingboy]

I wouldn't agree more.

[9eagle9]

I take a grain of salt on that one....its beginning to sound like a mock up of the last 'threatening' episode that allowed David to via for the Golden Globe award for maudlin drama, to play among his adherents. Taking into consideration that David is a self professed lightworker. Like any other lighworker their 'all positive' philosophy doesn't show them how to manage themselves or criticism very well. Thus any remarks not couched in terms of Faeries, magickal roses, unicorns, and stars is considered abusive. Lightworkers of that ilk are not made of very sturdy stuff and lacking that component that allows for a reality check.

Perhaps David should be reminded it's his obviated and enormous ego that is taking such offense to the criticism and it doesn't have anything to do with the spiritual self he has not yet discovered about himself. A person with an ego the size of the cosmos doesn't manage even minor criticism well .

Having hoards of grasping, mindless fans is as much a energy suck as rifts of uncomplimentary email but no one hears much criticism about that.



[QUOTE=Cartomancer;518329] Jeez, maybe if I hide my head in the sand I'll start to believe my own B.S. again[/oUOTE]

I am not sure this is fair comment.

I remember reading somewhere where he gave some ideas of the kind of abuse he was getting. It was pretty vitriolic, hateful raw stuff - and not usually related to the topics of discussion. I think ignoring that crap is a great idea.

[Delight]

In response to David Wilcock-Drake scenario; One of the things I look at if I am deciding the validity or at least sincerity of what I am being told is to look at the source. While reading some of the Drake interviews his focus on himself and his personal story is a true give away. It seems that if someone was truly placed in the altruistic position of providing all of this world saving info: self promotion would be at the bottom of the list. I don't know if this man is delusional, a scam artist or has another motive but it gives credence to the desperation of so many to blindly believe this stuff.

The other thing is the logic of the scenario they describe- I won't go into detail as it has already been done here.. Let us imagine that this banking cartel is arrested in mass. The implication that I get from reading Davids' blog is that this is going to "save the world". This seems so comic book simplistic. Without a change of consciousness it might make a mighty ripple, but there will be 20 new cartel wannabe's to replace the ones arrested by "the good guys"...I do understand that deep desire for change. Many of us are willing to believe just about anything that offers hope out of desperation. On the other hand if this scenario defies logic and common sense do you really want to set yourself up for disapointment?
The whole David -Drake thing seems like two kids playing spy and enjoying the adrenalin rush that comes with it..Personally, I don't think David is being consciously deceptive but that strong ego of his is leading the way....just my 2 cents.....I also want to say that is he is a great educator in many areas, I am sorry that he feels the need to be so much more...............

Alan Watt here calmly and deliberately addresses a central point.....:

AtJMTIF_PAA

Intelligence that has been gathered by the small people is gathered by the superstars and then diffused, negated and distorted. There is a BIG IDEA that takes generations to develop and disseminate. What I think is that there is mind control that operates on the structure of the mind ....an ongoing plan to make people unable to discern truth in play....that is counter intelligence.

We are powerful creatures because we are able to take mental thought forms and create the reality out of feeling and imagination. These strengths have been taken and used against us. We have to stop this trend by recognizing who we are...creators of our heaven and hell. We have to start questionning the stories we are so ready to accept as truth. There are forces that use ideas (BIG IDEAS) very methodically and steer us into insanity with our "minds" willingly following along.

We are kind of crippled by our inability to self reflect on our own abilities and harness them. For instance imagination is harnessed so we consume imaginary "scripts" rather than create our own imaginative scenes that would serve original and wholesome "futures".and deal with our structural set ups. But we are great beings despite the abuse of our capacities. I think that we have to keep going back to ourselves, to "feel into" what is rather than gobble up the fairy tale spins.

Feel into all these stories and characters and what do you find? I dislike the way we are set up and then others of us are scornful and derrogatory as if because we are twisted into using our imaginations (source of material creation) in the service of a nightmare we have been fed.... we are stupid. No we are geniuses bewildered.

[DarinSelby]

If you are going to malign him, keep in mind that his most recent book is a very serious bit of work, that is near flawless.

(edit) flawless in the fact that it reaches people,and is widely read and widely distributed. That it has details of things..things that people, in general, need to read.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've been asked to edit this post. So I will. And I have.

I'm seriously tired of this.

This thread starting... by people who are seemingly angry and seem to possess no balance, just anger and attack.

FLAWLESSLY REACHING PEOPLE? What a B.S. ARTIST you are! You were asked to edit your post because it was a LIE to begin with!

[Daozen]

In response to David Wilcock-Drake scenario; One of the things I look at if I am deciding the validity or at least sincerity of what I am being told is to look at the source. While reading some of the Drake interviews his focus on himself and his personal story is a true give away. It seems that if someone was truly placed in the altruistic position of providing all of this world saving info: self promotion would be at the bottom of the list. I don't know if this man is delusional, a scam artist or has another motive but it gives credence to the desperation of so many to blindly believe this stuff.

The other thing is the logic of the scenario they describe- I won't go into detail as it has already been done here.. Let us imagine that this banking cartel is arrested in mass. The implication that I get from reading Davids' blog is that this is going to "save the world". This seems so comic book simplistic. Without a change of consciousness it might make a mighty ripple, but there will be 20 new cartel wannabe's to replace the ones arrested by "the good guys"...I do understand that deep desire for change. Many of us are willing to believe just about anything that offers hope out of desperation. On the other hand if this scenario defies logic and common sense do you really want to set yourself up for disapointment?
The whole David -Drake thing seems like two kids playing spy and enjoying the adrenalin rush that comes with it..Personally, I don't think David is being consciously deceptive but that strong ego of his is leading the way....just my 2 cents.....I also want to say that is he is a great educator in many areas, I am sorry that he feels the need to be so much more...............

I think this is true. I think David is great, but him and Drake are probably both being used in an IC plot to rip off the collateral accounts. I bumped into one of the groups that wanted to step in after the current cabal are down. They weren't much better. They still wanted highly centralized, clandestine power. It won't happen. They are all salivating over this big money pot they are scrapping over, and none of them are going to get it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

If David is sincere, he can talk about:

1) The wave of grassroots technology that can solve many of our problems.
2) The subterranean world and paradise therein.

If he's uncomfortable with (2), just (1) will do fine.

He knows where he can find me. Our work is pretty much open source.

Challenge issued.

[Daozen]

Is David reading this thread? Lots of defensive comments in his reply to Fulford this morning. I've got no need to pick a fight with anyone, so I'll make it clear:

*

EDIT:


By the way David. As you've made no attempt to contact us we need to put it on record that anyone using our writing must attribute us and link to our essays. This is standard practice in alt media.

If you use any of our research, which has taken years, please credit us fully.

Thanks.

Dear David, Drake and Thomas,

We've enjoyed some of your shows... I've probably listened to, read and enjoyed everything that David has put out for free since 2007. Drake, you've dropped a fair amount of wisdom on your shows. Thanks.

Here's a quick note.

We're asking two things:

1) Please completely stop giving out duff predictions and false time-frames. This has been going on for more than 2 years. You've all been asked repeatedly to cool it. If you want to keep people's morale high, by all means, go ahead. But please don't run your listeners hopes up and down with time-frames. It's not fair to do that to honest, hardworking people.

False Timeframes have 3 negative effects:

1) They keep people trapped in a cycle of hope and dissapointment.
2) They make people cynical towards the existence of the freedom networks (you are being fed this info to discredit you)
3) They keep people in a state of passive hope, when they should be active and determined.

Last we heard, the financial issues could take TWO YEARS to solve. Fulford mentioned that as well. So please think about what you're doing. Does that sound fair enough?

*

2) Please consider passing on lifesaving info to your listeners: Cures for heart disease, water purification ideas, names of great doctors. This is the sort of info that common people on the ground, people with families, need. It's far more valuable than a drip feed of intel.




Would you like:

A) Listeners empowered with knowledge, and making determined decisions for themselves? Listeners taking centre stage in the situation, and owning their lives?


OR

B) Listeners hanging on for your next scraps of info, passively watching the 'big players' from the sidelines?

- Which tactical approach do you think will bring more energy into the situation? Which method has the greatest chance of pushing us to critical mass ASAP? Vague comments like: "Change starts with the person in the mirror."... are not enough, when there's vaults of useful articles on offer for free on our blog and other places. People are hurting.

Thomas Williams has been contacted repeatedly with these materials all summer and has shown hardly any interest. Unless FB is blocking our messages, he hasn't responded to the last two mails. That's your decision, but we're now making this public, so everyone can see and think for themselves.

*

Reversing Heart Disease:

https://medium.com/@Frodonomics2015/...n-31c7b09279d8

Six Doctors for a Medical Revolution

https://medium.com/@Frodonomics2015/...n-6579c3960eee

Low Tech Ways to Treat Water

https://www.engineeringforchange.org...eat_water.html

*

More Essays Here:

http://thewhitebook2015.blogspot.tw/

David, with one 30 second copy paste, you could start a grassroots push to end suffering now, and save millions of lives. Do I need to repeat the statistics on heart disease and water borne illnesses? We are in a red level emergency, people are dropping like flies every single day. We have been asking alt media to look at this info for five solid years and have been met with nothing but silence.

Yes, at some point we will win. You may be aware that there's all sorts of Jetsons technology in the basement. But that's no good if it's under indefinite embargo. So why don't we focus on what we have for now?

Stop mischaracterizing every mild criticism as hate and disbelief.

We are just:

1) A little frustrated at your indifference to grassroots technology that could alleviate suffering.
2) Disappointed at your repeated tactical errors: Giving out imminent timeframes turns your audience into passive spectators.
3) Annoyed that some people might be using you to spread misinformation.

Your research is normally great. Your predictions are sometimes not correct.

If there were going to be mass arrests during a certain period, would the White Hats really give people advanced warning through major alt media sites?


Anyway, it's your freewill choice. Just do what you have to do. We're focusing elsewhere now as the western alt media just doesn't want to know. No way are we going to waste time asking you all for views. Plenty of other media portals out there.

Peace,

Daozen/Central

[Observer1964]

Well some predictions wont come true if people listen to it and change their way. For me predictions are like warnings.

and not that I want to defend DW, but if I think someone is not worthy of my attention I dont give him/her attention, also not in a negative way.

But if someone warns me for something I cant resist investigating it a little more.

[Daozen]

I don't want to attack David. I just want to give him some constructive crit. People help me with my blind spots every day on Avalon. The softly softly approach has been tried, and it's failed hard.

Hopefully he'll see the sense in this instead of taking it as a personal attack. But whatever, I got it off my chest so I can move on.

*

Predictions about positive events that never come true don't help anyone, and keep audiences on a hopeful hamster wheel.

Everything David talks about WILL come true, but out here in Asia, we want it to come quicker.

Ignoring bridge technology and daydreaming of a Star Trek world that will just magically appear will only slow down the process. Why not get some grassroots momentum going? How can that be a mistake?

Grassroots Technology Expedites Disclosure and The Shift

Think about the light that is infused in the world as someone's father gets cured of heart disease, or a 50 cent filter gets installed in a hut somewhere. Or we start to solar dehydrate food to ward off starvation.

One day we'll have replicators and instant healing devices... for now, we can focus on Liposomal Vit C, Pauling Therapy, Xylem filters and Hydroponics. Sounds like a good start to me.

[Daozen]

By the way David. As you've made no attempt to contact us we need to put it on record that anyone using our writing must attribute us and link to our essays. This is standard practice in alt media.

If you use any of our research, which has taken years, please credit us fully.

Thanks.

[Sequoia]

In this clip below from the late 1990's (not sure exactly what year but he is predicting events in 1999!), where DW is talking with Art Bell on Coast-to-Coast, saying that he's a time traveler from the future and worked at area 51 brahahahaha:ROFL: It's priceless.
Go ahead debunk the person interviewed not being DW..please be my guest if you can.

HT6oKLwXJ50