Freewill and the channel wars

[Anchor]

Are we bored yet?

I am not :)

Story so far:

Group A represented by Person A has stated that Group B represented by various People were channeling AI.

Person A says he is not channeling. A technicality that fits the AI story, but he is still acting as a proxy for the messages of another.

Certainly in MY books that's channeling - especially in the commonly understood context of forums like this one.

What would be the motive of such conditional statements?

Anyway Group A has claimed to destroy said AI - so that phase of the game is up.

Group A can no longer make this claim. Group B will no longer channel AI because its has gone to meet its maker (who ironically is the same maker who made all of us - go figure).

Group B are still channeling messages as before. Which is ironic.

So, were Group A right?

What are Group B doing still channeling ?

Does this all seem like a game ?

Whose chain is being yanked?

In my opinion it doesn't matter.

Neither Group A or Group B will ever be able to conclusively prove anything to you, because THEY CANT.

The reason they cant is that YOU have your freewill - you have it, its yours.

Freewill means you can do what you will freely.

Ideally it is respected. Less ideally people can play sophisticated games of entrapment with you in order to have you USE your will in ways that they want you to use it, rather than perhaps you making your own authentic, unfettered choices.

I might be doing the same thing right now!

I admit it.

With respect to your freewill, and the very idea that you are free to ignore me; regardless of all that, I am taking the time to LOBBY you to disengage from this channeling drama, and focus on the message and not the messenger.

But if you see inconsistencies, then feel free to point them out.

Play fair though. Dont make stuff up. You are responsible for the words you utter.

There are levels of your being that cannot be constrained and wherein you are always free. No matter how tough things get, no matter how many layers of imprisonment you elect, you contain that seed of ACTIVE freedom. You can always make a choice, and having made that choice you act, and for that act you are accountable to none other than yourself for all the consequences of that action.

So what you become convinced of is entirely and totally up to you.

No-one can take that away from you.

Here is an example of the games.

Archons!

I did a search on PA1 and the word Archon turned up on three threads.

Something has happened to this word. Now its Archon this and archon that.

Words have been made out of it even I saw Archontic.

This worries me, and not just because of this

Anchor.
Archon.

Oh noes!!!

My opinion is that this is part of the game.

Words bind us.

In our density mode of thinking we attach thoughtforms to words, and words are a cool tool to control the way people think.

So, when you see these words - have a think about the motives behind them.

Is that motive fear?

Is that motive to empower you?

Or is it to imprison you further?

Consider why some people decide to forgo for a time the act of uttering words and/or seeking the silence of retreat.

In silence this control has no power.

If you approach that silence within you, then you distance yourself from these words and approach your inner truth.

This is where your power is.

Know then that this inner-truth, is the truth that sets you free.

Know then that you ARE free.

All is well.

[9eagle9]

Whaaaaaaaaat? And get rid of the non-televised space dramas?

Archonic is just another word for Lucifer energies, artificial intelligences, machine intelligences, constructs, aliens, thoughtforms,(external or self created) tulpas--its just different facets of something that rules, or has mon-archy over the mind. Golden archons to rule the mind, Golden arches to rule the belly.

Or rather it is the original word used for such things.

[Lettherebelight]

Thank you, Anchor, for somehow putting into words what I (and others?) feel/know about what is going on.

"In our density mode of thinking we attach thoughtforms to words, and words are a cool tool to control the way people think.

So, when you see these words - have a think about the motives behind them.

Is that motive fear?

Is that motive to empower you?

Or is it to imprison you further?

Consider why some people decide to forgo for a time the act of uttering words and/or seeking the silence of retreat.

In silence this control has no power.

If you approach that silence within you, then you distance yourself from these words and approach your inner truth.

This is where your power is.

Know then that this inner-truth, is the truth that sets you free.

Know then that you ARE free.

All is well."

-Anchor

[bennycog]

freewill is your firewall

[SKAWF]

well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

can anyone here say anything about the subject, with absolute certainty?.


dont get me worng, i'm not saying that ascension is a bull*hit topic.
i do believe that one can ascend,
or at least progress into a wider and more expansive understanding of things. i also believe that one can do things to increase the speed of progress (like NOT doing things that will drag one down)

but to hear some people talk.....

i wasnt against channeling. i wasnt into it either.
but i had no problem with it.
to each his/her own etc.

but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

but i'm nowhere near the top.
there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

imagine yourself stood on a spiral, facing the expanse...
even if you move forwards into a wider understanding of things....
the spiral also grows, so your position in relation to it, never changes,
no matter how much you learn. the 'struggle' never gets any easier.
(even if over time you are better equipped to deal with the things you face)

but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...
no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

i can imagine people saying...... 'ahhhh its december 20th 2012, ascension tommorow......... ive already picked what i'm going to wear'

i'm going to end this post here.

steve

[Sebastion]

Well my friend, I can assure you that you are not alone in your thinking.....



well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

can anyone here say anything about the subject, with absolute certainty?.


dont get me worng, i'm not saying that ascension is a bull*hit topic.
i do believe that one can ascend,
or at least progress into a wider and more expansive understanding of things. i also believe that one can do things to increase the speed of progress (like NOT doing things that will drag one down)

but to hear some people talk.....

i wasnt against channeling. i wasnt into it either.
but i had no problem with it.
to each his/her own etc.

but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

but i'm nowhere near the top.
there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

imagine yourself stood on a spiral, facing the expanse...
even if you move forwards into a wider understanding of things....
the spiral also grows, so your position in relation to it, never changes,
no matter how much you learn. the 'struggle' never gets any easier.
(even if over time you are better equipped to deal with the things you face)

but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...
no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

i can imagine people saying...... 'ahhhh its december 20th 2012, ascension tommorow......... ive already picked what i'm going to wear'

i'm going to end this post here.

steve

[Anchor]

well, if no one minds

I certainly don't. Great post. Really good.

Lots and lots I want to respond to there but want to sleep first.

Off the cuff for starters, more later.

For me, I don't talk much about personal ascension, and this focus un "I" or "us" to me is not really the main aim. The reason for that is that the main and often forgotten player in this "2012" game is the planet Earth.

Whether or not any human ascends is not the main point.

We are eternal, consequently we do not need saving by aliens :) [ can you agree this bit ? ]

Nor does Gaia need the planet (her body) to survive, but I guess "we" all decided that we would help make sure it did. She asked for help - help can be given.

Ask her yourself if you don't believe me. Perfectly do-able, but may need some technique first. No point in me asking for you, since you would then have to take my word for it and that is a no-go for your position.

Human ascension, if it happens for any non-wanderers[1] at all, is a side show compared to what is happening to the planet.

If you do ascend great.

If not, no worries - you'll be ok anyway.

--

[1] Wanderers have already been through an ascension though densities, they just dont remember it when they are here. Whatever.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Thanx Anchor :)

[seigiarchon]

i was "attacked" in the so-called channel wars.. tell me.. how do i protect myself from people who are trying to "attack" me in the channel wars again..

does a firewall or vpn help? if you cannot give me some answers which i can use to protect myself in the future, then i am gonna ask the mods to delete my account..

if any of you wanna give me some advice on how to protect myself, you can PM me.. if no one is gonna help me out here.. then i will ask the mods to delete my account..

[SKAWF]

does a firewall or vpn help? if you cannot give me some answers which i can use to protect myself in the future, then i am gonna ask the mods to delete my account..

if any of you wanna give me some advice on how to protect myself, you can PM me.. if no one is gonna help me out here.. then i will ask the mods to delete my account..

we are all equal.
you have the inteligence to find things out for yourself, as we all do.
i'm sure no one would like to see you leave
but you place a burden on others to solve your problem
and present negative consequences if we dont.

twice

stand up for yourself

exercise some degree of control over your situation

and stop placing your own fate in the hands of others

:rapture:

[seigiarchon]

does a firewall or vpn help? if you cannot give me some answers which i can use to protect myself in the future, then i am gonna ask the mods to delete my account..

if any of you wanna give me some advice on how to protect myself, you can PM me.. if no one is gonna help me out here.. then i will ask the mods to delete my account..

we are all equal.
you have the inteligence to find things out for yourself, as we all do.
i'm sure no one would like to see you leave
but you place a burden on others to solve your problem
and present negative consequences if we dont.

twice

stand up for yourself

exercise some degree of control over your situation

and stop placing your own fate in the hands of others

:rapture:

if the hosts of this forum do not wanna protect me or give me some advice on how to protect myself.. words cost nothing to anyone.. then i will leave .. simple as that..

[seigiarchon]

btw.. a general of an army needs his soldiers to protect him while he thinks and plans..

if the soldiers in this forum can't even protect a normal person or even give some simple advice to a normal person on how to protect himself, then how are they gonna protect their general or king?..

sun tzu once said, if the battlefield goes bad for u, retreat from the battlefield..

since this battle is going bad for me here.. then i will retreat from this battlefield called PA.. why am i wasting time helping others with my words when others don't even wanna help me by giving me some simple advice on how to protect myself..

whether i leave or stay is up to you guys.. PM if u like..

[SKAWF]

ahhhh well you're in the wrong place then
you're on the 'Freewill and the channel wars' thread
when really this is a 'technical support' issue
i'm sure that if you approach a soldier...... or a mod
and write them a brief pm outlining you issues....
they would be happy to oblige

kind regards

[StarDust]

I would like to make the distinction between "channeling" and what group A in your hypothetical is referring to as "telepathic" communication.

From my perspective, channeling is literally like stepping out of your proverbial office (your mind) and allowing another entity to move in for a moment and use your computer (brain) and telephone/fax (voice) to communicate a message. You may still be present, but you are in the break room having a cup of coffee or flipping through a magazine. You can hear commotion going on in your 'office', but you're not really aware of what is going on in its entirety. One real danger lies in the fact that when one is in an altered state with a proverbial "open door", one is also susceptible to negative entities entering that door as well. An open door is an open door and anyone with the capacity to enter it can certainly try. That is an inherent danger in channeling that must be taken into consideration.

Telepathic communication, on the other hand, is like having a conversation with a friend. You are fully cognizant of what is going on and you haven't given any other entity the keys to the proverbial kingdom. The other aspect of telepathy is that the 'receiver' is more highly protected like your computer's firewall. The recipient can send/receive information in a safe manner; but the recipient can also scan for information that may be harmful to the recipient and reject it with little to no harm done. I can't say the same for channeling, since you are, in essence, giving another entity full direct access to your hard drive. I hope these simple analogies help everyone to understand the differences on a very basic level.

I just wanted to make this distinction since it is fairly evident who the main players are with regard to your hypothetical situation. The differences in communication types are night and day. To confuse the two or dismiss them as the same is simply not correct.

Although I think that your exercise is interesting , I think that you have used the term proxy too broadly. Based on the broad application let's apply it to our current understanding of the MSM. - If reporting a story by "proxy" were, in fact, channeling, then every news broadcast and every form of print media that we have here on 3rd Density earth based on a "story" that wasn't experienced by the reporter would be considered channeling. I think most can agree that the MSM does not channel anything (aside from what their bosses tell them to report) while reporting a story that wasn't experienced first hand; which in essence is telling a point of view by proxy.

Another distinction I make between what group A and group B have been reporting is the nature of the message. Group A has been reporting what I would consider news. It is "fact based" action that tells a story relative to a larger picture. Sure, it is a print type story with no pictures or video, but it is a story none the less. Group B, on the other hand, tends to tell their story providing fluffy language that is designed to cradle and comfort. It has no specifics and always has the 'peace is on the horizon' storyline. For those who require proof, it does not exist in any measurable way for either group A or group B. But one thing can be said with a high degree of certainty with regard to group B - they have NEVER been able to predict anything with any degree of accuracy. Now, the same could be said of group A, however, I've yet to encounter a report from group A that blew copious amounts of smoke up my A$$ like that from group B. You don't have to believe either, but the reporting "styles" are unmistakable.

Furthermore, the issue I have with information provided by group B is that it tries to trick the inept into being passive by choice. It tries to place one in a bliss like state using key words that are consistent with many new age beliefs. This is a trick. It doesn't provide any information on how to be proactive in one's life. Some of the messages even speak about "our true leaders" coming forth and they have subtle messages about being ruled over. This is dangerous and a huge distinction between the two. Group A's messages never speak of such things as that is inconsistent with their intent.

Either way, I only consider the information provided by telepathic or channeled sources to provide a picture and nothing more. In some instances, the information provided is more mechanical/technical in nature in that it is describing how a system works (Bashar is a prime example of this) - this is the information that I find most useful in that it is providing knowledge of consciousness on a systemic level to promote self-empowerment through understanding.

In sum, both channeled and telepathic communication may present pieces of the puzzle, but should in no way be considered gospel. This is purely my opinion. I have no desire to give my power away to any group regardless of their claims. Only the weak minded and foolish would give themselves entirely to another. Otherwise, it merely becomes another religion where the sheep are marched off to be slaughtered by consent.

[Rocky_Shorz]

remember, your Spirit is your Subconscious and is communicating continuously with those around you...

those who say they are telepathic are actually just able to hear their Spirit... when your conscious mind starts questioning the subconscious, your Spirit gets answers from others...

Channeling is considered talking to those who have passed not in this dimension and most allow their Spirit to communicate with Spirits from beyond...

the conscious allows the subconscious to pass along the message from the other Spirit...

[Rocky_Shorz]

possession is something completely different, usually a spirit that didn't pass into the light that out of boredom starts pestering the living around them...

a few hundred years wondering what's next can make them bitter...

those spirits can step into the living, most can't take control or even communicate because the one they stepped into won't listen...

people having sudden major health problems many times is out of a possession, and what killed the "spirit" starts "infecting" the living...

those who are awake many times only need to light a candle and imagine drawing the spirit out and into the light for it to happen, your Spirit handles the details communicating with the Spirit lost in limbo...

hope that helps...

[StarDust]

remember, your Spirit is your Subconscious and is communicating continuously with those around you...

Yes, I agree. Everyone can do it, but only some are adept at it.


those who say they are telepathic are actually just able to hear their Spirit... when your conscious mind starts questioning the subconscious, your Spirit gets answers from others...

Yes, I agree. But it can also be a conversation.


Channeling is considered talking to those who have passed not in this dimension and most allow their Spirit to communicate with Spirits from beyond...

the conscious allows the subconscious to pass along the message from the other Spirit...

Yes, but there are fundamental differences in how this is achieved, which I outlined in the post above#14.

[Ernie Nemeth]

As much as I like this thread, and do not want to derail it, I must say that when a person asks directly for help, it must be given - if we say we are for the light, that is.

I cannot give that help, but I received it when I asked for the same thing...

If ever there was a person screaming out for love, maybe this one is it. And although he has started some amazingly contentious threads that I have ignored, the mods have elected not to suspend his acount - that says something to me. I pray he gets the help he asks for. All I can do is light him a candle and keep him in my thoughts...

Sorry, carry on.

[Rocky_Shorz]

well the Channeling part, I know you are speaking of Galactic contacts, which for those with a Spirit can confirm truth the moment you start reading the words...

I've never read one that was confirmed truth by my Spirit so it's all fairy tale happy ending stories to me, still enjoyable, but mean nothing...

The brainwaves for those I've connected to are so much higher frequencies, they talk down to us like we would an infant

when I was looking at a video seeing if I could spot why the sunspots are prevented from popping off at our planet...

the moment I saw the flashing lights I heard, there they are, and watched energy being pumped from two orbs into what looked like 2 lightning rods

the meaning and how it works was instantly "known" that's what I mean by the art of knowing, all the answers are right within us...

I picked up an ashtray to look at it and heard this is his body given to you... I dropped it realizing this was a tray that had been used in church services for communion...

a piece of metal doesn't have a memory, or spirit... so where did this voice come from...

I had a rock wash up to my feet at the ocean with Mickey mouse on it, when I looked at it closely, I saw an image of a Shaman fire starter, this was a stone age bic lighter...

then I had another flash, it was a monkey snatched from a tree by a massive bird, but it wiggled free and dropped into the ocean, sediment filled the rock and it turned into stone, then washed up on shore and was found...

Shamans always believed Monkey Skulls had mystical powers, and this one was used for fires...

a small coal put in the hole, which they would put herbs and spices on to turn to smoke then blown through at the patient...

on the beach, they put sticks on the coal which turned into a blowtorch to light fires...

1673616737

[Rocky_Shorz]

As much as I like this thread, and do not want to derail it, I must say that when a person asks directly for help, it must be given - if we say we are for the light, that is.

I cannot give that help, but I received it when I asked for the same thing...

If ever there was a person screaming out for love, maybe this one is it. And although he has started some amazingly contentious threads that I have ignored, the mods have elected not to suspend his acount - that says something to me. I pray he gets the help he asks for. All I can do is light him a candle and keep him in my thoughts...

Sorry, carry on.

it isn't so much what he is sharing as much as the responses drawn from it that are important...

Avalon is a place for learning, isn't it?

[TargeT]

i was "attacked" in the so-called channel wars.. tell me.. how do i protect myself from people who are trying to "attack" me in the channel wars again..

does a firewall or vpn help? if you cannot give me some answers which i can use to protect myself in the future, then i am gonna ask the mods to delete my account..

if any of you wanna give me some advice on how to protect myself, you can PM me.. if no one is gonna help me out here.. then i will ask the mods to delete my account..

This collection of words tells me a bit about you

1) you have fear & expect retribution, perhaps based on guilt or perhaps based on a hyped set of "information" you have read

2) you don't have the best grasp on Information Technology

3) you think yourself important enough ( or other people motivated enough) that you would be targeted and "attacked"



as for advice:

Firstly:
You should ALWAYS have a fire wall & virus protection (AVG ( http://free.avg.com/us-en/free-antivirus-download) and ZoneAlarm (http://www.zonealarm.com/security/es/anti-virus-spyware-free-download.htm) are free offering's that will work fine, and are what I use at home).

Secondly:
the chances of you being attacked are very very low, it RARELY happens and the majority of the time that it does happen it is random, or self inflicted NOT targeted.

Hope this puts your mind at ease, but really, if you don't feel "safe" here, by all means go where you do feel safe; your (apparent) propensity to assume a victim role will follow you elsewhere however (methinks).

[ThePythonicCow]

if the hosts of this forum do not wanna protect me or give me some advice on how to protect myself.. words cost nothing to anyone.. then i will leave .. simple as that..
The mods (hosts?) of this forum have some modest abilities and tools they can use to keep the forum running and mostly well behaved, at some level.

These abilities and tools may or may not apply here; it's hard to tell with so little to go on. Attacks can occur, or be felt, at levels in which the mods have no special powers to deflect or wisdom to impart.

[9eagle9]

AKT-TEWLY....

There IS a mass ascension occurring , the double speak sort. No one ever says what or who is ascending; it just says you are ascending. No one ever actually asks about what is ascendant although its a very common word or what may be ascending. They just accept that they are and of course, it must be a good thing.

Does ANYONE ever question that perhaps Ascension is NOT automatically a desirable event.

No. Hardly ever.

I see ass-ended people all the time and I thank god i am not them.

As with other marked epochs in history(and RAF has recently made a whole laundry list of them in another thread) when we had huge surges in ego overgrowth, the only that that is ascendant about all this garbage is the ego.

Because everyone ignored the primary esoteria and went right into the garbage not a whole lot of people are familar with all the many implications of Ascension and its close counter part ass-ended-ness.


Several years back I had a workshop called Consciousness Shift. Its a sort of interactive , game workshop where I ask a question and the audience gives the answer. The sort of thing where there are no wrong answers (or so I thought, in actuality this workshop was my wake up call that things with spirituality seekers was not exactly on the fast track to a brain trust city).

So the first question was, "What are we? What is the one single thing we share, our single common denominator"

And ALL answers were right out of the channels.

We are all love.

We are all beams of light.

We're all angels.

We're all ET's.

About a half hour passed with me watching my audience with morbid fascination and some pour brave soul timidly ventured, ...we're humans?

A half hour for this to occur to someone.

Our common denominator. The one thing that we may possibly have in common with the other and they don't know what it is .... 'they forgetting who we are part has obviously taken a tremendous leap forward"

Okay great (now i have an hour and half to show these people that their consciousness IS expanding ...with ego overgrowth and bloat and I failed.)

Next question, what is a human.

A human is love.

Humans are angels.

We're all star seeds.

We're all reincarnated faery unicorns.

I'm sorry I lost the workshop in a computer crash because it was easily played on line, and there's more sort of depthful reflection here (in certain instances) rather than just parroting one hears in the Estrogen Fests that pass as modern religion.

After the workshop a member of the audience , approached me and ask if I had formal hypnosis training. At the time I had not and he commented how spell binding and charismatic I was and that nearly all of them had been lulled into a mild state with my conversation. So I said, is it possible that its because they were already infiltrated, in a state of auto hypnosis well before i ever came along?

So we had a nice long discussion about that and he said, Yes.

After that I decided to fold it in and hole up someplace quiet, by myself, and wait for what feels to me like a giant consciousness yeast infection to take over humanity.

[DeDukshyn]

well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

can anyone here say anything about the subject, with absolute certainty?.


dont get me worng, i'm not saying that ascension is a bull*hit topic.
i do believe that one can ascend,
or at least progress into a wider and more expansive understanding of things. i also believe that one can do things to increase the speed of progress (like NOT doing things that will drag one down)

but to hear some people talk.....

i wasnt against channeling. i wasnt into it either.
but i had no problem with it.
to each his/her own etc.

but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

but i'm nowhere near the top.
there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

imagine yourself stood on a spiral, facing the expanse...
even if you move forwards into a wider understanding of things....
the spiral also grows, so your position in relation to it, never changes,
no matter how much you learn. the 'struggle' never gets any easier.
(even if over time you are better equipped to deal with the things you face)

but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...
no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

i can imagine people saying...... 'ahhhh its december 20th 2012, ascension tommorow......... ive already picked what i'm going to wear'

i'm going to end this post here.

steve

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[PurpleLama]

AKT-TEWLY...

We're all reincarnated faery unicorns.



http://www.unicornlady.net/Gallery/images/9-1/fairy_lace_copyright_marilyn_alice_boyle.jpg

Sheesh, we reincarnated faery unicorns just can't catch a break.

[9eagle9]

Good god man, WHO is your farrier?!

[songsfortheotherkind]

I'm wondering, is the issue the same if the word 'ascension' is replaced by 'evolution'? Is there the same issue with the word 'evolution' in its essential meaning, which is to increase in complexity and ability?

As I have observed, there is a sliding scale of behaviour within the sentient 'I am' species of this planet, with various placements along the sliding scale within the two poles of 'adaptable' and 'unadaptable'. I am intentionally attempting to make the language as neutral as possible and searching for words that will express the gamut of the experiences without loading them with any kind of perspective other than what the words themselves suggest.

Adaptable Beings demonstrate a fluidity and ability to embrace increasing complexity than those more towards the unadaptable end of the scale demonstrate. The reasons for such unadaptability are, for the sake of the point I'm discussing, irrelevant: what is of interest is that periodically major upheavals in the societal consciousness occur and those tending towards the far end of the adaptable marker rise to the surface and set the new baseline for what comes after. As a recent example of this: 30 years ago computer competency was not a widespread skill in the workplace or daily life. When it became clear that computer literacy was becoming a requirement for the workplace, those who were most adaptable went and retrained (I'm not talking here about those who had an interest in such things, I'm talking about those who were first affected by the dramatic workplace changes); the rest followed with degrees of willingness dependent on their adaptability, until there was the large group that couldn't/wouldn't embrace the shifts and these found themselves facing either much lower paid jobs, unemployment, retirement or having to retrain in completely new areas of work.

Computers provided a catalyst for many evolutions- increases in complexity and ability- in an almost total spectrum way, not just information processing: look at the www behaves as a social evolution and consciousness tool. The criticisms aren't the point- the tool exists, just because some are uninspiring with it isn't the fault of the tool. Technology stands in its place neutrally, it's what is done with it that is a reflection of the intention, purpose and character of the user.

In every evolution, the necessity for a new language emerges concurrently because there are elements that need to be expressed that have no current adequate words. 30 years ago the word 'google' was unknown- now it is a verb, amongst other things, one of these being a way to suggest an individual take responsibility for their own situation: "why don't you google it?". We have lasers, tazers, ipads and touchscreens, we have email, transgendered, pan sexual and terabyte. These words came about because there was something that needed to be described, even if at the time the awareness of this was limited.

What I'm seeing now is that there is something emerging that is seeking a new language to embrace and describe it: something is seeking to be expressed and there's a clunking of language as this is being lived into. Perhaps what is currently lacking are open and genuine explorations of what is seeking to be expressed: what do you mean when you say *this* here? What is the intention and purpose of the communication? What words are missing from our vocabulary that are needed to adequately describe what we are seeing and experiencing? How can we embrace the multiple layers of experience that each individual is having rather than trying to negate them?

That's what I'm observing. It looks like evolution to me. Some describe this also as a frequency thing, an 'ascension' thing, a spiritual shift, a consciousness shift, and it's all those things as well to my perspective. What is more interesting to me than getting antsy about the words is getting to the heart of what individuals are expressing when they say those things, getting to the core of what platform is being used: is what is being expressed another way of maintaining the old paradigm, just in a fluffier worded form? Is it psychological despotism disguised as spiritual wisdom? Is it heteronomy disguised as evolution? That's more interesting to me personally: it doesn't matter how attractive the words are, if they've been infused with a deadly neurotoxin then they're not worth wasting time on.

:)

[mountain_jim]

If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension.

This comes close to describing the way I perceive reality, and have my whole life. I perceive all matter as Light vibrating at a certain frequency, including my physical vehicle. The rate of vibration is increasing. My personal frequency increase is accelerating. This is not theory, it is direct experience, at least for me.

I once proved to myself I could 'see' with an antenna array of nerves in my hands, by being able to identify the colors of otherwise identical writing pens by the rate of vibrations 'felt' when waving my hands about 4-5 inches above the object to be perceived.

For me ascending is not a bad term, it is a logical (to me) result of increasing frequency vibration rate out of the range of the vibration rates of the 3D matter reality currently shared here. Whether that can happen in an existing vehicle for one such as myself remains to be seen. :)

[Carmen]

Hi Songs,

Nice to see you out of the pub. Your description of Sui generis when you first arrived here, was a tremendous inspiration and a worthy description of my ideal of the exploration of the spectrum of consciousness. Don't understand many of the terms you use or your thinking processes at times, but really enjoy your independence of mind and your tolerance of others Sui generis. I'm only occasionally 'wordy' and seems to mainly be silent nowadays. The dramas and the critisizisms cause me to withdraw my feelers like a snail when touchedLOL!! My old self would wade in with guns blazing, but no more. Nice to just watch.

As we grow and expand, our own beingness becomes a channell for something greater than our personality self could ever invisage. The critisizisms of channelled material is counter productive. It's the message that counts! If the frog at the bottom of my pond spoke words that inspired me, I would listen! It's what a message means individually that counts. My inner Self is the touchstone of truth, nothing else.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hi Songs,

Nice to see you out of the pub. Your description of Sui generis when you first arrived here, was a tremendous inspiration and a worthy description of my ideal of the exploration of the spectrum of consciousness. Don't understand many of the terms you use or your thinking processes at times, but really enjoy your independence of mind and your tolerance of others Sui generis.

Hey Carmen. :) I do come out of the Pub occasionally to poke around, and this-


I'm only occasionally 'wordy' and seems to mainly be silent nowadays. The dramas and the critisizisms cause me to withdraw my feelers like a snail when touchedLOL!!

generally sees me heading straight back there within short order. :P There is definitely an enormous difference between looking at the differences with a sense of eager curiousity and co-creation, and looking at the differences with a sense of 'someone is not agreeing with my world view!! This must be rectified immediately, with much squashing of alternative viewpoints!'. I find that my immersion in deeply exploring the frequency of the sui generis and do no harm really does take up most of my time. :)

As for wordy, well, what can I say, I tend towards the epic posts, this is true. However, they're always a great excuse for a cup of tea and a pile of snacks. :D


The critisizisms of channelled material is counter productive. It's the message that counts! If the frog at the bottom of my pond spoke words that inspired me, I would listen! It's what a message means individually that counts. My inner Self is the touchstone of truth, nothing else.

Hurrah for inspirational talking frogs! That's what the world needs more of, I was wondering what was missing. :D

I agree about the tedium of the constant criticism about channeled material- or anything out of the box at all, really- instead of looking at the message itself: there are good things to be found in much that is, in the greater picture, little more than noise: millions follow the bible, for instance, and still more vote despite every indication that it is an utterly useless thing to do and only encourages the controllers. I personally feel it's more useful to explore and see if there's anything worth keeping in any signal rather than patting one's Self on the back at how correct one is and how everyone else is wrong.

Of course, I can say this because I know for a fact I'm right about everything...


heh heh heh heh...... *sneaks out the side door*

[Carmen]

Hmm, I'm not critisizing wordiness! In fact, I'm rather envious when I read long scripts that go into great detail. I think I'm just too lazy to expend all that time and energy! And at times my intellect does trapeze like back flips trying to understand some posts but I often miss the connection and land flat on my face!:ohwell:

I do love the challenge at times of using words of wisdom or advice in a way that does not cause others egos to rear up in self defence. It's the gentle art of touching spirit to spirit and learning happens in that space. I guess it's honouring the Sui generis of others. People can relax when they know the other cares. That's when oneness becomes the experience, not just an idea.:wizard:

Just been reading the Toltec book 'The Voice of Knowledge'. It talks about 'our story', being unique and different to every one else's story (Ahh, Sui generis again). Also, we think we 'know' other people, but we have just made up a secondary story about them!! It's all lies and conditioning we have accepted about ourselves and others. To let them be and love them anyway gives them self acceptance and room to be any way they wish. :wub::wub:

[9eagle9]

So its more of a demonstrable event , something is occurring on an energetic, vibrational and like you indicated even a physics level, and it's not cloying messages from outer space?



well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

can anyone here say anything about the subject, with absolute certainty?.


dont get me worng, i'm not saying that ascension is a bull*hit topic.
i do believe that one can ascend,
or at least progress into a wider and more expansive understanding of things. i also believe that one can do things to increase the speed of progress (like NOT doing things that will drag one down)

but to hear some people talk.....

i wasnt against channeling. i wasnt into it either.
but i had no problem with it.
to each his/her own etc.

but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

but i'm nowhere near the top.
there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

imagine yourself stood on a spiral, facing the expanse...
even if you move forwards into a wider understanding of things....
the spiral also grows, so your position in relation to it, never changes,
no matter how much you learn. the 'struggle' never gets any easier.
(even if over time you are better equipped to deal with the things you face)

but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...
no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

i can imagine people saying...... 'ahhhh its december 20th 2012, ascension tommorow......... ive already picked what i'm going to wear'

i'm going to end this post here.

steve

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[wobbegong]

The reason they cant is that YOU have your freewill - you have it, its yours.

Anchor thanks for this thread mate, it struck a chord that reminded me of this excellent song by Creedence Clearwater Revival:
It's just a thought
But I wondered if you knew
That the song out there is you.
They can't take it from you
If you don't give it away;
Don't give it away…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZzDqCyU98E

...just wanted to share it...

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

9eagle9, why have you used term "cloying messages" in your post? Why are you appearing so materialistic/naturalistic to me? Why are you ridiculing and discarding spiritual aspect of human existence so easily? It appears to me that you treat it as something of a unnecessary burden rather than central to our existence... Well ok, it is central to me here and now...

What "being a human" means to You?

What is wrong with me assuming all of the above about You ?

[9eagle9]

Because those messages are judgmental in nature (no one notices because they sound nice) and basically it a subtle undermining of one's being, one's essential power...in a nice sounding way of course. That is in fact a materialistic means of conveying a message "You're all helpless sheep but don't worry something greater than yourself will save you."


If people wanted to be saved....they'd have stuck it out with Christianity. You do realize these messages are just distorted versions of Christian stories? No one changed anything they just ascended up into the lite version of dogma and patriarchy.

I don't issue those messages, so I'm sorry if they are materialistic in orientation, so of course a close examination of something that is material in nature, may sound rather materialistic but....I didn't write the material. I cannot comment in a spiritual way because its not spiritual in nature. And spirit is not always 'nice', its authentic. So one must comment on the material in a material way. Thus is the nature of duality.

Human Being.

Human appears to be a physical event that none of us can really avoid.

Being is something altogether different.

Being a human entails being a human and all that that implies, in scope and potential, it doesn't mean being a unicorn. Or an alien, or angel or a reincarnated flying red herring or some pitiful idiot that requires an alien in a flightsuit to come down and help them find their arses with both hands. Those things are material in nature.

It is rather self explanatory and easily seen.... if one is not distracted by ultra dimensional beings crouched behind Jupiter.






9eagle9, why have you used term "cloying messages" in your post? Why are you appearing so materialistic/naturalistic to me? Why are you ridiculing and discarding spiritual aspect of human existence so easily? It appears to me that you treat it as something of a unnecessary burden rather than central to our existence... Well ok, it is central to me here and now...

What "being a human" means to You?

What is wrong with me assuming all of the above about You ?

[Anchor]

Well, a lot happened since my last post.

First I am sorry that seigarchon reacted the way he did on this forum, and apparently to this thread. Seigarchon, if you are reading this, my reference to channel wars and archon had nothing to do with you, or about you or referenced you in any way at all. I am very sorry that you felt attacked. Feeling like one is under attack is extremely unpleasant. I hope everthing works out for you. I know that attempts were made to help you that were apparently ignored. I don't know why. Please slow down and think things through. Sometimes those outstretched hands are offers of help, not threats to slap.


i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

My OP was nothing to do with ascension, and I was not really going to address that further, but, then I did!


what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

Later in this thread 9eagle9 has said soemthings that may explain a lot of it (her post on the workshops).

No-one can speak with "authority" - the reader gives it that.

What some do is effect a tone of conviction - or have reputation for otherwise regularly hitting the mark, and thus thier words may be treated differently. Everyone has figured out their current set of favorites. Speakers of that category have to be really careful, because even if they did not intend it, the consequences of their writing or utterance are magnified - the responsibilities are increased in proportion.

This is where the subject of this thread comes in: free will.

People have the rights and can choose to speak and all the baggage that this entails.

People have the freedom to read, (or not), and react (or not) etc.

Free will untaps our power, but it also provides a vector for the tricksters who may be able to play on people using their free will in an unwise and unguarded fashion.

Communication between that which we are (our-self), and that which we are not (those of our other-selves) - is ultimately an exchange of energy.

I feel this important to point out.


to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

If its me, then it is because I speak from experience. I can state it, but I have no right to expect you to believe me.

However, it changes nothing.

You still have to decide for yourself if I am FOS or have a point worth considering.

Either-way, I am not supposed to care :) (even if I do a bit, and that is my problem to deal with - lol)


i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

Yes, in my case it was a mixture, initially from the outside, but later some of it comes from the inside - or in communion with what has been fashionably termed "my higher self".


how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

This is not my area of expertise. I know the theory, it involves discipline, care, mindfulness, self-authority, confidence in ones power, ruthless interrogation and cross-checking. One is also advised to do such things in an environment of protection.


but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

Ego, and the love of money causes these kinds of problems. The elite love it, as it works to thier agenda.


i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

Thankyou for this. This is authentic. This is not parroting that which has been said by others.

May I ask you, what guided you on this path?


there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

As we learn, we teach. As we teach we learn.

Such is the way of energy exchanges. Always a two way street.



but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...

This is my biggest beef with a lot of the messages - not all of them - I got a few posts under my belt on this one.


no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

I concur.


I would like to make the distinction between "channeling" and what group A in your hypothetical is referring to as "telepathic" communication.

Thank you for doing this. I agree with you.

However, the point I was making is that no matter how a person receives the information, he then relays it to others who then have it second hand. That is why I think the exact method is a moot point really - you still end up with the requirement to discern.

That was where the free-will angle to this thread came in.

To jaded consumers of much "relayed" information, using the fact of telepathic communication rather than say a mediumistic kind process just looks like an attempt to claim some extra authority or quality credentials. We all know that doesnt work - even if it is true. We are still left with "Do I find this information acceptable?" or, and I hate to say it, "do I trust this information"

My freewill, if being exercised in a wise manner allows me to do that properly. However if I am careless and elect to blindly trust, then I am open to being misled..... again!

There is no getting away from the fact that Telepath A and Channeler B are both different people to the information consumers - and the discriminiation requirement/recommendation is EXACTLY the same for both. To be honest both claim superiority and its up to the reader to evaluate that on their own terms.


I just wanted to make this distinction since it is fairly evident who the main players are with regard to your hypothetical situation. The differences in communication types are night and day. To confuse the two or dismiss them as the same is simply not correct.

I feel my point is made. I don't want to get into the specifics of that here.


Although I think that your exercise is interesting , I think that you have used the term proxy too broadly. Based on the broad application let's apply it to our current understanding of the MSM. - If reporting a story by "proxy" were, in fact, channeling, then every news broadcast and every form of print media that we have here on 3rd Density earth based on a "story" that wasn't experienced by the reporter would be considered channeling. I think most can agree that the MSM does not channel anything (aside from what their bosses tell them to report) while reporting a story that wasn't experienced first hand; which in essence is telling a point of view by proxy.

I don't trust MSM reporters or news feeds any more than I trust Group A or Group B channelers.


Another distinction I make between what group A and group B have been reporting is the nature of the message. Group A has been reporting what I would consider news. It is "fact based" action that tells a story relative to a larger picture. Sure, it is a print type story with no pictures or video, but it is a story none the less.

Does the information conduit of this "fact based" information adhere to any intergalactic news reporting standards? Are there any oversight committees?
Am I stretching this analogy too far :)

TBH, "fact based" is a bit rich. I mean that whole thread was fueled by the notion that you basically have to trust the reporter, or develop the skills to go to the same information source - or do the inner testing. This is a PR issue for Group A. A good few Avalonian's are self-inoculated against disinformation have certain well rehearsed reactions. You saw some of them. It the message is important, it will overcome any resistance. I am proud to see that resistance frankly, it speaks well of Avalon - it seems healthy to me.


Group B, on the other hand,... but the reporting "styles" are unmistakable.

On this we may have a lot of common ground in our views.


Furthermore, the issue I have with information provided by group B is that it tries to trick the inept into being passive by choice. It tries to place one in a bliss like state using key words that are consistent with many new age beliefs. This is a trick. It doesn't provide any information on how to be proactive in one's life. Some of the messages even speak about "our true leaders" coming forth and they have subtle messages about being ruled over.

No arguments from me there. I fully concur.


Avalon is a place for learning, isn't it?

Yes, a place to learn and teach, and a place to teach and learn.


he commented how spell binding and charismatic I was

I bet he says that to all the girls.... Um.... so did it work for him ;)


I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

I for one look forward to that.


I'm wondering, is the issue the same if the word 'ascension' is replaced by 'evolution'?

I think you are on to something useful there.

I think the more ways we have of providing perspective, the more ways we can help get people better able to cope with what appears to me to be an oncoming train of revelation - that is going to hit some people very hard indeed.

We need lots of different ways and means to help rapidly impart knowledge to those that seek it. The more rapid the changes, the more important this is, so we can be of the best and highest service.

[DeDukshyn]

Other (legitimate) "beings" do have a small part to play (I know the reason they are here (ya right! ;-) - they are not here to rescue us from anything), so, I have to go with my teachings that say to not trust your external senses over your internal ones. Some people may take a little while to calibrate their internal one ;) Many are getting carried away on strange currents in the meantime - oh well, its all part of learning and life. Trusting oneself is the ultimate key, the "legitimate" beings/channelings will only ever encourage this. And as long as that is the message - even if if fake - it still gets the job done. ;)


So its more of a demonstrable event , something is occurring on an energetic, vibrational and like you indicated even a physics level, and it's not cloying messages from outer space?



well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.
.......

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[9eagle9]

It's not really a revelation though the messages themselves have turned into an external crutch.

Letting someone know that they should wait to have a vibrational event is quite different than showing them how to have one now.

Or that someone else will be responsible for their vibrational event.

A mass deluge of information keeping the mind tied up in the future is a pretty good way not to turned inwardly to have a vibrational event period.





Other (legitimate) "beings" do have a small part to play (I know the reason they are here (ya right! ;-) - they are not here to rescue us from anything), so, I have to go with my teachings that say to not trust your external senses over your internal ones. Some people may take a little while to calibrate their internal one ;) Many are getting carried away on strange currents in the meantime - oh well, its all part of learning and life. Trusting oneself is the ultimate key, the "legitimate" beings/channelings will only ever encourage this. And as long as that is the message - even if if fake - it still gets the job done. ;)


So its more of a demonstrable event , something is occurring on an energetic, vibrational and like you indicated even a physics level, and it's not cloying messages from outer space?



well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.
.......

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[StarDust]

I would like to make the distinction between "channeling" and what group A in your hypothetical is referring to as "telepathic" communication.

Thank you for doing this. I agree with you.

However, the point I was making is that no matter how a person receives the information, he then relays it to others who then have it second hand. That is why I think the exact method is a moot point really - you still end up with the requirement to discern.

I agree with this process. As I've stated elsewhere, discernment is ultimately the right and responsibility of the seeker.


That was where the free-will angle to this thread came in.

To jaded consumers of much "relayed" information, using the fact of telepathic communication rather than say a mediumistic kind process just looks like an attempt to claim some extra authority or quality credentials. We all know that doesnt work - even if it is true. We are still left with "Do I find this information acceptable?" or, and I hate to say it, "do I trust this information"

My freewill, if being exercised in a wise manner allows me to do that properly. However if I am careless and elect to blindly trust, then I am open to being misled..... again!

There is no getting away from the fact that Telepath A and Channeler B are both different people to the information consumers - and the discriminiation requirement/recommendation is EXACTLY the same for both. To be honest both claim superiority and its up to the reader to evaluate that on their own terms.

I agree with your thoughts on this as well; however, this is where I walk a different path with regard to discernment. At this point, I process all information internally through a combination of Intuitive Channeling (not the same as channeling discussed here), Telepathy, and Knowing based on past "lives"/expeiences. Thus, I do not personally have a "need" for external proof as so many others clearly do. Consequently, any 'news' delivered by telepathic or channeled means merely fill in background information to provide the bigger picture. It is consequential to nothing on my path but makes for an interesting background story.



I just wanted to make this distinction since it is fairly evident who the main players are with regard to your hypothetical situation. The differences in communication types are night and day. To confuse the two or dismiss them as the same is simply not correct.

I feel my point is made. I don't want to get into the specifics of that here.

Fair enough.



Although I think that your exercise is interesting , I think that you have used the term proxy too broadly. Based on the broad application let's apply it to our current understanding of the MSM. - If reporting a story by "proxy" were, in fact, channeling, then every news broadcast and every form of print media that we have here on 3rd Density earth based on a "story" that wasn't experienced by the reporter would be considered channeling. I think most can agree that the MSM does not channel anything (aside from what their bosses tell them to report) while reporting a story that wasn't experienced first hand; which in essence is telling a point of view by proxy.

I don't trust MSM reporters or news feeds any more than I trust Group A or Group B channelers.

This is understandable and is the view held by many. However, this is where the process of extracting truth from fiction from within plays an important role. I think most will agree that even the most ardent lies have scraps of truth thrown in to give the information being presented a truthful appearance. Being able to find the nuggets of truth is essential in this Density since Terrans are masters of limitation by virtue of deception.



Another distinction I make between what group A and group B have been reporting is the nature of the message. Group A has been reporting what I would consider news. It is "fact based" action that tells a story relative to a larger picture. Sure, it is a print type story with no pictures or video, but it is a story none the less.

Does the information conduit of this "fact based" information adhere to any intergalactic news reporting standards? Are there any oversight committees?
Am I stretching this analogy too far :)

I don't think that 'editorial boards' exist within the higher densities and for good reason. All 'facts' are easily verifiable by ALL within a complex network of collective consciousness. There is no deceit in that sense, since information at this level is KNOWN to all. Please keep in mind that collective consciousness is more common within the higher Densities than the illusion of separation - a primary facet of 3rd Density. This is a very basic concept to anyone who is a student of The Law of ONE.


TBH, "fact based" is a bit rich. I mean that whole thread was fueled by the notion that you basically have to trust the reporter, or develop the skills to go to the same information source - or do the inner testing. This is a PR issue for Group A. A good few Avalonian's are self-inoculated against disinformation have certain well rehearsed reactions. You saw some of them. It the message is important, it will overcome any resistance. I am proud to see that resistance frankly, it speaks well of Avalon - it seems healthy to me.

I agree with your assessment that it is "a bit rich", which is why I placed "fact based" in quotes. It will be a big stretch for anyone who seeks confirmation externally of self; but is a valid statement to anyone who seeks that confirmation internally by scanning the vibratory frequency of the message being delivered. Those frequencies are very hard to mask from my perspective.



Group B, on the other hand,... but the reporting "styles" are unmistakable.

On this we may have a lot of common ground in our views.

When reading anything, I scan for intent. That is the first clue I look for with regard to whether or not information is genuine.



Furthermore, the issue I have with information provided by group B is that it tries to trick the inept into being passive by choice. It tries to place one in a bliss like state using key words that are consistent with many new age beliefs. This is a trick. It doesn't provide any information on how to be proactive in one's life. Some of the messages even speak about "our true leaders" coming forth and they have subtle messages about being ruled over.

No arguments from me there. I fully concur.

Thank you for this fascinating discussion. I thoroughly enjoy analyzing the mechanics of thought and conciousness.

[StarDust]

Other (legitimate) "beings" do have a small part to play (I know the reason they are here (ya right! ;-) - they are not here to rescue us from anything),

This is a very wise perspective to take. Everyone incarnated here for a reason by choice. So in that sense, the only one who would be 'rescued' would be one from one's self. It is an interesting paradox indeed!


so, I have to go with my teachings that say to not trust your external senses over your internal ones.

This is a conclusion that ALL will eventually achieve.


Some people may take a little while to calibrate their internal one ;)

Yes, although the process seems to be speeding up which is comforting relative to the transitional process that is occurring all around us.


Many are getting carried away on strange currents in the meantime - oh well, its all part of learning and life.

That is quite apparent within this outpost of thought.


Trusting oneself is the ultimate key, the "legitimate" beings/channelings will only ever encourage this.

I agree with your assessment.


And as long as that is the message - even if if fake - it still gets the job done. ;)

Moving the ball forward is always the goal. After all, there are infinite paths, but only one direction.

[Lettherebelight]

What a great conversation. Thank you to everyone taking part for courteous and interesting views.

There is so much information coming through now...

Individuals saying they are receiving info from external sources internally (channelling)


Ancient sources, subject to interpretation and corruption (various scripture)



Conjecture, heresay (individual supposition)


Speculation (having a guess, we all do it!)

With all of this, let's not forget the inner Voice or underestimate Its power. If we tune in to that! we will never go too far off track.

[Carmody]

I made up the word archonistic.

Do I get a medal for that one?

Maybe a spot in the 27 volumes of the Oxford?

[Lettherebelight]

Very well done indeed! Seriously though, I think Websters, or someone should be notified immediately.http://t2ak.roblox.com/5bf35d4266fb45d76b0b8cb81ff7efd0...before someone else gets in there first!

[StarDust]

With all of this, let's not forget the inner Voice or underestimate Its power. If we tune in to that! we will never go too far off track.

Have you ever given much thought to what the "inner Voice" is comprised of? If so, you may find that my own views on the subject are more the norm than the exception - this is certainly the case beyond this Density.

[DeDukshyn]

I see things as processes, I see processes as confusing to some (because humans tend to relate to things in events and reactions), I see people trying to make sense and respond to that confusion - it is good that they are searching - I do not judge it. I also see a very few that are legitimately malevolent in their disinfo - the "process" wont stop and all will be revealed soon ;-) Impatience and humanity's desire for "quick fixes" is fueling a lot of the nonsense. But there is a little truth in everything, IMHO, my 2 cents ;)




It's not really a revelation though the messages themselves have turned into an external crutch.

Letting someone know that they should wait to have a vibrational event is quite different than showing them how to have one now.

Or that someone else will be responsible for their vibrational event.

A mass deluge of information keeping the mind tied up in the future is a pretty good way not to turned inwardly to have a vibrational event period.


....

[Lettherebelight]

Yes, Stardust, I have given much thought to the Inner Voice.

It was your eloquent responses of post #39, that inspired me to post on this thread and mention it, as I thought you expressed it so well (the Inner Voice).

You made some wonderful points in a most gracious way; please forgive my agricultural style.

[9eagle9]

yes enough truth to make it resonate so the remainder of the disinfo will be summarily accepted as the resonating truth as well.

Also called 'advertising' .

"Well yes there's some truth this toothpaste will whiten your teeth--(mumble mumble, by a micron or two) Nothing that can't be observed with a high powered electron microscope.


I see things as processes, I see processes as confusing to some (because humans tend to relate to things in events and reactions), I see people trying to make sense and respond to that confusion - it is good that they are searching - I do not judge it. I also see a very few that are legitimately malevolent in their disinfo - the "process" wont stop and all will be revealed soon ;-) Impatience and humanity's desire for "quick fixes" is fueling a lot of the nonsense. But there is a little truth in everything, IMHO, my 2 cents ;)




It's not really a revelation though the messages themselves have turned into an external crutch.

Letting someone know that they should wait to have a vibrational event is quite different than showing them how to have one now.

Or that someone else will be responsible for their vibrational event.

A mass deluge of information keeping the mind tied up in the future is a pretty good way not to turned inwardly to have a vibrational event period.


....

[DeDukshyn]

Clearly not what I was getting at but thanks for trying, (oh wait, you tried "not") ... ;)

There is a difference in use of that term for analysis as opposed for "advertising" (does no one understand what a "context" is?). I thought it would be obvious, I give people way to much credit. ;)

You clearly just scoured my post for anything to possibly react to. I still love you though ;) And you are right, info does get mixed with disinfo - always has and always will - even with the best of intentions. I'd rather look at that than look away - not because I "want to believe" but because I have methods of discernment to almost instanly throw out any crap or lies or useless distracting info. Some people can't do this thus toss out everything and criticize everyone else no matter if they do what I do, or just foolishly believe things outright.



yes enough truth to make it resonate so the remainder of the disinfo will be summarily accepted as the resonating truth as well.

Also called 'advertising' .

"Well yes there's some truth this toothpaste will whiten your teeth--(mumble mumble, by a micron or two) Nothing that can't be observed with a high powered electron microscope.


I see things as processes, I see processes as confusing to some (because humans tend to relate to things in events and reactions), I see people trying to make sense and respond to that confusion - it is good that they are searching - I do not judge it. I also see a very few that are legitimately malevolent in their disinfo - the "process" wont stop and all will be revealed soon ;-) Impatience and humanity's desire for "quick fixes" is fueling a lot of the nonsense. But there is a little truth in everything, IMHO, my 2 cents ;)




It's not really a revelation though the messages themselves have turned into an external crutch.

Letting someone know that they should wait to have a vibrational event is quite different than showing them how to have one now.

Or that someone else will be responsible for their vibrational event.

A mass deluge of information keeping the mind tied up in the future is a pretty good way not to turned inwardly to have a vibrational event period.


....

[StarDust]

Yes, Stardust, I have given much thought to the Inner Voice.

It was your eloquent responses of post #39, that inspired me to post on this thread and mention it, as I thought you expressed it so well (the Inner Voice).

You made some wonderful points in a most gracious way; please forgive my agricultural style.

Thank you! I'm happy to hear that what I shared was inspirational and that you have given it much thought. The inner voice is so incredibly honest with only your best interest at heart.

I'm somewhat surprised that more people don't listen to it. However, I do acknowledge that the suppression of listening to the truth from within is a result of this Density and the thousands of years that have been spent disempowering people here. It is truly joyful to see so many waking up even though many more have yet to wake.

[9eagle9]

There's nothing in your post to get re-active about. It's neutrally temporizing.

The same sort of programming vectors in channeled messages exists in advertising, that is why its so easy to snare people into it. Those channels have been traveled before.


No big deal.

Unless of course it's happening to you.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

i was "attacked" in the so-called channel wars.. tell me.. how do i protect myself from people who are trying to "attack" me in the channel wars again..

does a firewall or vpn help? if you cannot give me some answers which i can use to protect myself in the future, then i am gonna ask the mods to delete my account..

if any of you wanna give me some advice on how to protect myself, you can PM me.. if no one is gonna help me out here.. then i will ask the mods to delete my account..

You are deleted, however i think you still read the forum, youre arrogance in dumping the emotional blackmail on other posters is trully stunning, you martyred yourself for nothing at all, i call that a suicide bummer.

May the farce be with you.

[SKAWF]

SKAWF
''to hear people talk ....
i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?''

ANCHOR
''If its me, then it is because I speak from experience. I can state it, but I have no right to expect you to believe me.''


oddly enough none of what ive said was aimed at you.
but am i right in thinking your more a channeler
than an ascension peddler?

SKAWF
''i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... .

ANCHOR
''''Yes, in my case it was a mixture, initially from the outside, but later some of it comes from the inside - or in communion with what has been fashionably termed "my higher self".

how do you get yourself 'into the zone'........... whats your process?

SKAWF
''i have worked hard etc
'sort my head out'

ANCHOR
''May I ask you, what guided you on this path?

that could be answered a thousand ways!

i have long term goals, and everything i do is in relation to them.
even if i waver, the destination is fixed.
the goes for the energetic AND physical world

i used to say 'things are neither good or bad, they are what they are'
i found that if i wasnt swayed by the positives or the negatives of a situation,
the speed of my thinking increased, and i started to notice patterns in everything.
it was something new to explore
and it grows.
that was the main thing...

i realised that nearly everything i was doing was for someone elses benefit.
then two mini sparks
there's as much mileage in stopping some patterns as there is in starting new ones.
and
in order to start again, you must first STOP!

then i rebooted with things of my own creation.
actually nurturing it at first and it has been growing ever since.
and as i say, the struggle does continue.

its kinda like seeing pictures of things in the imagination,
and then trying to put words to it, and then when i think i've got an understanding of it,
stating a conclusion based on it.
IF, after right after that there is any chatter from the mind,
or any feelings of doubt

then it wasnt the conclusion and more thought is required
but if it WAS a sound conclusion, it passes through with no mental chatter, and no negative feelings.

i'd say it was about being entirely self contained.
able to operate independently
triangulating the imagination, the heart and the mind
and using them together to get a bigger picture.

i couldve been here all night answering that.
hope i actually did.

steve

[DeDukshyn]

There's nothing in your post to get re-active about. It's neutrally temporizing.

The same sort of programming vectors in channeled messages exists in advertising, that is why its so easy to snare people into it. Those channels have been traveled before.


No big deal.

Unless of course it's happening to you.

EDIT: Nice post deleted -- read below.

[DeDukshyn]

There's nothing in your post to get re-active about. It's neutrally temporizing.

The same sort of programming vectors in channeled messages exists in advertising, that is why its so easy to snare people into it. Those channels have been traveled before.


No big deal.

Unless of course it's happening to you.

I just realized how condescending and judgmental your post is. And how you criticize me when I express knowledge and education in specific arenas (that I can always back up with some science - at least the real stances I take - not the ones others perceive me to have - those I cannot back up because they are not real) and can understand things in a different light. Judgements and criticism of others says much much more about the one judging and criticizing than it does about the ones they attack. You must feel these actions serve you specifically in some way or you would not do it. So tell me, what reward does it net you?

[Anchor]

Bloody free will. It means people can argue with each-other, as well as about things.

So it goes.

[DeDukshyn]

Debate and condescending baseless attacks (Trolling) are not remotely in the same category ... I expect too much class from folks of Avalon I guess .... I keep forgetting its a loose collection of all sorts of rogues

[Anchor]

oddly enough none of what ive said was aimed at you.
but am i right in thinking your more a channeler
than an ascension peddler?

Well there is an interesting question... what do I peddle?

I guess I want to progress my "mission" and perhaps, I um, err, I cant keep my mouth shut...

[ Potentially summarized here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9765-a-bloodline-member-discloses-upcoming-events-and-why-2012-is-so-important-to-them&p=84342&viewfull=1#post84342) ]


how do you get yourself 'into the zone'........... whats your process?

Link is in my signature to Mediation (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3779-Meditating-simply).


that could be answered a thousand ways!

The one you chose was good. In my view, you appear to have tapped into the kinds of visualization/manifestation ideas that I also have internalized/remembered.

What do you think about the idea that we have a "higher-self" ?

[DeDukshyn]

oddly enough none of what ive said was aimed at you.
but am i right in thinking your more a channeler
than an ascension peddler?

Well there is an interesting question... what do I peddle?

I guess I want to progress my "mission" and perhaps, I um, err, I cant keep my mouth shut...

[ Potentially summarized here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9765-a-bloodline-member-discloses-upcoming-events-and-why-2012-is-so-important-to-them&p=84342&viewfull=1#post84342) ]


how do you get yourself 'into the zone'........... whats your process?

Link is in my signature to Mediation (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3779-Meditating-simply).


that could be answered a thousand ways!

The one you chose was good. In my view, you appear to have tapped into the kinds of visualization/manifestation ideas that I also have internalized/remembered.

What do you think about the idea that we have a "higher-self" ?

Brilliant list! I can agree with all of it for myself ... (not a surprise).

[9eagle9]

I was disagree-ing with you. I do realize that people self identify with their beliefs to the extent if the idea is challenged they feel judged.

You took it personally so ,....you took it personally.

So did Seigarchon apparently.

Forgive me not realizing you are the only person educated in such phenom and that your vast understanding of any given topic should remain unchallenged lest your feelings be stirred by an objection to your beleif system.

And oh **** I can't hold a straight face for this long.....





There's nothing in your post to get re-active about. It's neutrally temporizing.

The same sort of programming vectors in channeled messages exists in advertising, that is why its so easy to snare people into it. Those channels have been traveled before.


No big deal.

Unless of course it's happening to you.

I just realized how condescending and judgmental your post is. And how you criticize me when I express knowledge and education in specific arenas (that I can always back up with some science - at least the real stances I take - not the ones others perceive me to have - those I cannot back up because they are not real) and can understand things in a different light. Judgements and criticism of others says much much more about the one judging and criticizing than it does about the ones they attack. You must feel these actions serve you specifically in some way or you would not do it. So tell me, what reward does it net you?

[the_vast_mystery]

I made up the word archonistic.

Do I get a medal for that one?

Maybe a spot in the 27 volumes of the Oxford?

For that to be grammatically correct I believe the noun form would need to end in ism. (I believe the regular adjective form would be Archonic) The Dictionary committee awards you no points, and may the Archons have mercy on your soul! ;p

[DeDukshyn]

I was disagree-ing with you. I do realize that people self identify with their beliefs to the extent if the idea is challenged they feel judged.

You took it personally so ,....you took it personally.

So did Seigarchon apparently.

Forgive me not realizing you are the only person educated in such phenom and that your vast understanding of any given topic should remain unchallenged lest your feelings be stirred by an objection to your beleif system.

And oh **** I can't hold a straight face for this long.....



Like I said, big difference between debate and baseless attacks via false implications. Like my text has "programming vectors", "that exist in advertising" to "snare people". Ok, let's pretend that didn't happen.



" ... your post .... It's neutrally temporizing. The same sort of programming vectors in channeled messages exists in advertising, that is why its so easy to snare people into it. ..."

Which post were you referring to specifically and can you add any substance to your claim whatsoever?

[Anchor]

9eagle9 is a catalyst.

DeDukshyn is a catalyst.

Each tolerable for some, not for others.

It may be helpful, it may be a hindrance.

It will be what you let it be.

You can choose to be so catalysed or not.

It is totally up to you.

Everytime I see "9eagle9 vs. someone", I see this. Once, that someone was me.

I am not taking any side - I am the arch fence sitter and I can stay here for a long time.

Also from this splintery fence-top I can see both sides - and I am reminded that we are all all perfect parts of the one infinite creator.

Love all.

Play on...

[DeDukshyn]

I'm just hoping to find out what my programming vectors are! You know! The "Temporalizing nuetralizing" ones. Finally found someone who knows about that stuff!

[StarDust]

Like I said, big difference between debate and baseless attacks via false implications. Like my text has "programming vectors", "that exist in advertising" to "snare people". Ok, let's pretend that didn't happen.



" ... your post .... It's neutrally temporizing. The same sort of programming vectors in channeled messages exists in advertising, that is why its so easy to snare people into it. ..."

Which post were you referring to specifically and can you add any substance to your claim whatsoever?

I think this pretty much sums it up...

16775

…in response to this:


Forgive me not realizing you are the only person educated in such phenom and that your vast understanding of any given topic should remain unchallenged lest your feelings be stirred by an objection to your beleif system.

And oh **** I can't hold a straight face for this long.....

[9eagle9]

This post.


I see things as processes, I see processes as confusing to some (because humans tend to relate to things in events and reactions), I see people trying to make sense and respond to that confusion - it is good that they are searching - I do not judge it. I also see a very few that are legitimately malevolent in their disinfo - the "process" wont stop and all will be revealed soon ;-) Impatience and humanity's desire for "quick fixes" is fueling a lot of the nonsense. But there is a little truth in everything, IMHO, my 2 cents ;)





¤=[Post Update]=¤

You sure dropped the "I am the higher vibrational' entity and Care Taker of the earth" act fast didn't you?

Not working out for you?



I think this pretty much sums it up...

16775

[DeDukshyn]

You sure dropped the "I am the higher vibrational' entity and Care Taker of the earth" act fast didn't you?

Didn't drop a thing, no clue what you are talking about, never did or said to be anything you claim. Please point where I claimed to be "caretaker of the earth". ROFLMAO. seriously hood goose lady ...

Can you please explain my "neutralizing temporal programming vectors" (the false claim against me) and which posts I expressed this behavior in and why you think that? Thanks.

[StarDust]

Please point where I claimed to be "caretaker of the earth". ROFLMAO. seriously hood goose lady ...

That is a thinly veiled pop shot at me. Somehow that was her seriously misguided take away from the polite conversation I was having with other members who are not cantankerous curmudgeons. If I were the caretaker for the earth, there are certain people who I would jettison into space.;)

…and I'd start with those who reference themselves in an alpha-numeric format first.:pound:

[DeDukshyn]

Please point where I claimed to be "caretaker of the earth". ROFLMAO. seriously hood goose lady ...

That is a thinly veiled pop shot at me. Somehow that was her seriously misguided take away from the polite conversation I was having with other members who are not cantankerous curmudgeons. If I were the caretaker for the earth, there are certain people who I would jettison into space first.;)

I don't know what to say .. misunderstandings happen .... a shift is needed .. in perspective .. not huge though. Look I just defend myself .. people shouldn't attack me. I love you all. ;)

[StarDust]

Please point where I claimed to be "caretaker of the earth". ROFLMAO. seriously hood goose lady ...

That is a thinly veiled pop shot at me. Somehow that was her seriously misguided take away from the polite conversation I was having with other members who are not cantankerous curmudgeons. If I were the caretaker for the earth, there are certain people who I would jettison into space first.;)

I don't know what to say .. misunderstandings happen .... a shift is needed .. in perspective .. not huge though. Look I just defend myself .. people shouldn't attack me. I love you all. ;)

I agree, there are ways to say "I don't agree with you" without needing to score points on some proverbial game board that is meaningless. And using direct language to specify the disagreement is the civilized way to go about it. Everything else is just sophomoric no matter what level of vocabulary you choose to use.

[DeDukshyn]

Please point where I claimed to be "caretaker of the earth". ROFLMAO. seriously hood goose lady ...

That is a thinly veiled pop shot at me. Somehow that was her seriously misguided take away from the polite conversation I was having with other members who are not cantankerous curmudgeons. If I were the caretaker for the earth, there are certain people who I would jettison into space first.;)

I don't know what to say .. misunderstandings happen .... a shift is needed .. in perspective .. not huge though. Look I just defend myself .. people shouldn't attack me. I love you all. ;)

I agree, there are ways to say "I don't agree with" you without needing to score points on some proverbial game board that is meaningless. And using direct language to specify the disagreement is the civilized way to go about it. Everything else is just sophomoric no matter what level of vocabulary you choose to use.

I would agree that there is a way to go about it. A way to discuss it in a mature rational way. I don't expect everyone to get along or to agree or to have the same "nurtralizing temporal poophole brazctors" as everyone else like me, but sigh .. the burdens one has to live with.

[ThePythonicCow]

I think this pretty much sums it up...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=16775&d=1339041878&thumb=1

StarDust, was that response to DeDukshyn intended to describe DeDukshyn, or yourself? If the former, then it looks to me like a low brow insult apparently making fun of DeDukshyn. If the latter, then well ... ok.

(I trimmed the nested quoting level of a couple posts above, as I do frequently and almost effortlessly, which should now make it a bit easier to see who is responding to who.)

[DeDukshyn]

I think this pretty much sums it up...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=16775&d=1339041878&thumb=1

StarDust, was that response to DeDukshyn intended to describe DeDukshyn, or yourself? If the former, then it looks to me like a low brow insult apparently making fun of DeDukshyn. If the latter, then well ... ok.

(I trimmed the nested quoting level of a couple posts above, as I do frequently and almost effortlessly, which should now make it a bit easier to see who is responding to who.)
ooops .... accidently typed something ...[update] all's good -humour in your post all may not get ... just sayn ;)

[Anchor]

My "messaging" comes directly from a 6th Density social memory complex in the etheric realm of Sirius B;

Frankly I'd rather see more of this than what I have seen in my most recent visit to this thread.

How about it?

[DeDukshyn]

My "messaging" comes directly from a 6th Density social memory complex in the etheric realm of Sirius B;

Frankly I'd rather see more of this that what I have seen in my most recent visit to this thread.

How about it?

Considering the sub forum .. perfect suggestion! ... Yet also considering ... New Thread!

[9eagle9]

Fence sitting sound better?

Everything is okay because it all has some truth in it.

Everything is okay because all will be revealed 'soon' (which people have been saying for 2000 years)

There is a little truth in everything (like that is good thing).

All temporizing , neutral statements intended to lull and dissuade people from criticizing any content.

Quick to react you may reread my post and note the rest of my remarks were directed at Stardust.



You sure dropped the "I am the higher vibrational' entity and Care Taker of the earth" act fast didn't you?

Didn't drop a thing, no clue what you are talking about, never did or said to be anything you claim. Please point where I claimed to be "caretaker of the earth". ROFLMAO. seriously hood goose lady ...

Can you please explain my "neutralizing temporal programming vectors" (the false claim against me) and which posts I expressed this behavior in and why you think that? Thanks.

[9eagle9]

That wasn't thinly veiled. You pretty much emphasize you fall out of your chosen role fairly easily for a higher dimensional being.

More than likely its because its not a state of being but a role that you have assumed.



Please point where I claimed to be "caretaker of the earth". ROFLMAO. seriously hood goose lady ...

That is a thinly veiled pop shot at me. Somehow that was her seriously misguided take away from the polite conversation I was having with other members who are not cantankerous curmudgeons. If I were the caretaker for the earth, there are certain people who I would jettison into space.;)

…and I'd start with those who reference themselves in an alpha-numeric format first.:pound:

[Maia Gabrial]

I'm starting to see suspicious lies in Group B's communications.... How does anyone know who or what exactly they're channeling or communicating with? Simply, they DON'T know.... Any entity could be a poser.... From what I've painfully discovered recently, these entities are very good liars and deceivers... And if you are as careless as I was, a part of you will be trapped by them, too....

I say QUESTION EVERYTHING! Even the messenger! Listen closely to what's being said because those messages will clue you in on how you're being deceived. The enemies know you very well....They'll tell you exactly what you want to hear until you're ensnared....

So, Group C who joined Group B says that they have outcasts and demons in their ranks.... Demons, people! Does that not bother anyone? The fact that negative entities have supposedly joined with Group A and B to help liberate Earth?

It's not sounding as good as it used to....

[9eagle9]

It would certainly ease the conflict if someone could fall back on "I didn't mean to say that, my social memory complex told me to'.

Or "My apologies, my 6th density social memory complex briefly reverted to the 5th density version, and my hard drive froze up'


Or "I beg your pardon my social memory complex has a memory that isn't in alignment with you'.





My "messaging" comes directly from a 6th Density social memory complex in the etheric realm of Sirius B;

Frankly I'd rather see more of this that what I have seen in my most recent visit to this thread.

How about it?

[Anchor]

Group C who joined Group B says that they have demons in their ranks.... Demons, people! Does that not bother anyone?

Lol - another group to potentially have to not believe.

I totally agree - question everything. This is the primary discipline for safety with this stuff.

[9eagle9]

As I noted in another thread Doreen Virtue introduces her adherents to the joys of channeling constructed entities (or demons).

Of course they are 'nice' sounding demons with names like Archagnel Sasha and Bambi so it's okay.

She sells millions of books.

Meaning ...no this doesn't bother anyone. In fact these days if one makes assessment of these entities and their message peddlers that makes one evil.

People don't mind putting heroin in their arm because it makes them feel good.

If you can't get them to put the needle in their arm tell them its a b-12 shot.






I'm starting to see suspicious lies in Group B's communications.... How does anyone know who or what exactly they're channeling or communicating with? Simply, they DON'T know.... Any entity could be a poser.... From what I've discovered recently, these entities are very good liars and deceivers...

I say QUESTION EVERYTHING! Listen closely to what's being said because those messages will clue you in on the how you're being played. Group C who joined Group B says that they have demons in their ranks.... Demons, people! Does that not bother anyone?

[9eagle9]

Everything is about asking the right questions, which is how people get snared --by not questioning.

In this channeling paradigm you see the same 'don't question this' as you do any place else. The same "Don't question authority" as you do anyplace else.

There isn't anything ORIGIN-al or authentic. If we get hooked up with some deceptive entity and manage to have enough self honesty to admit it, we an always blame the entity.

'the devil made me do it'

That's pretty old and not authentic at all.




Group C who joined Group B says that they have demons in their ranks.... Demons, people! Does that not bother anyone?

Lol - another group to potentially have to not believe.

I totally agree - question everything. This is the primary discipline for safety with this stuff.

[StarDust]

That wasn't thinly veiled. You pretty much emphasize you fall out of your chosen role fairly easily for a higher dimensional being.

More than likely its because its not a state of being but a role that you have assumed.

I don't care if you can't accept the fact that I am who/what I am because I chose to volunteer to incarnate here on earth at this time to assist Gaia. It is not a role that I have "assumed" as you claim, it is my heritage that has been verified by far more advanced entities. So get over it (and yourself). The only thing I have "assumed" is lowering myself to a certain level as human to call a bully out for being a bully; which you do quite frequently with reckless abandon. You do this with words intended to diminish and with just enough sting to comply within forum rules. It is not appreciated by many - I received a vast number of PM's from others stating this when you did this to me on the Kettler thread. The bottom line is that I don't like your communication style, your demeanor, nor you. I'm sure the feeling is mutual and I have no desire to interact with you or your kind - Aegypius Monachus. Now, back into your pink bar of silence…the ignore list is such a marvelous feature!

Anchor, My sincere apologies for sidetracking your thread with nonsense. This will be my last comment on the matter as I now consider it closed.

[DeDukshyn]

Fence sitting sound better? -- fence sitting on what? I didn't know there was any rules that people have to choose imaginary sides.


Everything is okay because it all has some truth in it. -- I never said this sentence - try using quotes.


Everything is okay because all will be revealed 'soon' (which people have been saying for 2000 years) again, I never said "everything will be ok because ... " anything. You are adding words, why do you need to do this? When I said "all will be revealed" I was referring to the development of your understanding. But I see sometimes old dogs can't learn new tricks.


There is a little truth in everything (like that is good thing). This is the same as the fist claim. Did you need three? It's ok, you can just make up some more words or duplicate some of the same points if you need - you do it anyway; can anyone figure out why? Like I said, I expect most at Avalon to be intelligent enough to understand a context, and give way too much credit for that. I believe changing a context to make it fit ones "rightness" is a named process in psychology.



All temporizing , neutral statements intended to lull and dissuade people from criticizing any content. can you please tell me how this works? I want to believe you but these just sound like words with no substance again. please explain how my "positive outlook" is designed to "lull and dissuade people from criticizing"? Please explain how it achieves this effect? There must be some scientific basis for your claims? Mechanism of action must be explainable if there is any truth to your words. Complete and utter nonsense.


Quick to react you may reread my post and note the rest of my remarks were directed at Stardust. uh ya. established way back here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46036-Freewill-and-the-channel-wars&p=502331&viewfull=1#post502331).


Everything is about asking the right questions ...
And observing the lack of any legitimate answers. Good for identifying trolls too ;)

[9eagle9]

It's programming, a means of temporizing to so that nothing is challenged, both of you are correct I DON"T have to accept anything without evidence.

And I'm not.

I can acknowledge I know what I'm seeing because I've seen it one zillion times before.

[RunningDeer]

Hello 9eagle9,

A simple thanks coming at you.http://www.pic4ever.com/images/bliss.gif
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/computer3.gif I’ve had to work beyond judgements, and be open to hear. Once I stepped back to see from the larger perspective, your delivery style dissolved.

On an inner level, your messages registered. There were times I was only able to chew on one sentence at a time. Then I’d go out with my researcher's cap, to disprove one of us; always hoping it was you.
(Oops, no surprise there.) http://www.pic4ever.com/images/wind14.gif

:moil: So, my approach to busting through the few firewalls, is with a new found honesty and clarity.

Peace and Hearts,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer



Everything is about asking the right questions, which is how people get snared --by not questioning.

In this channeling paradigm you see the same 'don't question this' as you do any place else. The same "Don't question authority" as you do anyplace else.

There isn't anything ORIGIN-al or authentic. If we get hooked up with some deceptive entity and manage to have enough self honesty to admit it, we an always blame the entity.

'the devil made me do it'

That's pretty old and not authentic at all.

[DeDukshyn]

It's programming, a means of temporizing to so that nothing is challenged, both of you are correct I DON"T have to accept anything without evidence.

And I'm not.

I can acknowledge I know what I'm seeing because I've seen it one zillion times before.

That doesn't answer my main question, let alone all of them.

Can you point me towards any research on this "technique" you speak of? I want you to show me evidence of how this programming achieves its effect. The mechanism of action with an explaination of how my "post" achieved this affect you speak of. Show me you are not a hypocritical troll that believes in this nonsense without evidence.? Where is your evidence?

It sounds like some sort of psychology and I do have a little formal training in psychology, but I have never heard about this. I did some searching, nothing. You surely don't just make all this BS up, do you? Impressing people with big words that don't mean a damn thing. Laughable.

[9eagle9]

Your main question wasn't a question.

I've responded that you have temporizing statements that appeals to 'its okay to do whatever we want cause there's no consequences'.. mindset. Which is consequence of listening to garbage junk messages.

I disagree.


I made it known that its all about asking the right questions in regards to channeling (rather than just agreeing about what is being said).

I've responded that yes there is some truth in garbage messages but enough to hook people into garbage.



A positive outlook does not mean we shouldn't question anything or disagree with the content of any given subject matter.


Positive nor negative has nothing to do with it.


Someone has disagreed with you and you feel like your question hasn't been answered.

Ask the right question instead of going with the reaction script.

Pout and re-act all you want and I still won't agree with you.

[9eagle9]

You are my evidence of how programming achieves its effect.

You are reacting to a challenge to your programmed belief.

I challenged your program with my disagreement. A program needs agreement for it to keep running.

If you were not so tightly identified with your belief then you'd not take it so personally. Your belief is not you. Somehow you've been led to think it is you.

It doesn't take much to pop someone out of the script.

It takes a little agreement to lull you into a beleif, it takes little disagreement to pop it out.

Stardust was very easy to pop out of their "I'm a supreme ultimate higher being' and pop them right back into the nastily little ugly of everyday human life.

I



It's programming, a means of temporizing to so that nothing is challenged, both of you are correct I DON"T have to accept anything without evidence.

And I'm not.

I can acknowledge I know what I'm seeing because I've seen it one zillion times before.

That doesn't answer my main question, let alone all of them.

Can you point me towards any research on this "technique" you speak of? I want you to show me evidence of how this programming achieves its effect. The mechanism of action with an explaination of how my "post" achieved this affect you speak of. Show me you are not a hypocritical troll that believes in this nonsense without evidence.? Where is your evidence?

It sounds like some sort of psychology and I do have a little formal training in psychology, but I have never heard about this. I did some searching, nothing. You surely don't just make all this BS up, do you? Impressing people with big words that don't mean a damn thing. Laughable.

[Carmen]

Damn it all!! 9eagle9, I'm finally understanding your modis operandi!! Don't like it much but I understand it! I'm the chicken **** one watching from the sidelines in this, um, 'discussion'! Mostly rooting for the others! But now I'm seeing differently. Fascinating!!

[DeDukshyn]

I am humouring your disagreement. I just want you to explain the mechanism of action behind what you claim. Some research, some evidence, anything at all to show that your words are more than just your own delusions. The ball is in your court. It's easy just explain it and why you believe your nonsense?

Simple. The ball is in your court, feel free to support your fancy words with some evidence of how this works, if you can. Yet here you are on this thread telling others they need to have "evidence" You are a hypocrite.

BTW -- which "belief" am I defending here? And how have I defended it? You tell me. (see, you just have to ask the right questions)

Go back up and read all my posts.

In the end we will see that you do the same things you criticize others of doing. You want people to back up their words with some evidence. I Never defended a thing. Not once. I strongly encourage everyone reading here to go back and read all my posts on this thread so that the false assumptions and accusations in her last two posts can be observed.

[SKAWF]

What do you think about the idea that we have a "higher-self" ?

years ago i wouldve said i support the idea of a higher self
as id formed the belief that there had to be more to life than this, quite early on.

now i just see it as self.
and the operating frequency is determined by what i'm focusing my attention on at the time.

everything that i was..... broke one day.
i am what was left

[Anchor]

Damn it all!! 9eagle9, I'm finally understanding your modis operandi!! Don't like it much but I understand it! I'm the chicken **** one watching from the sidelines in this, um, 'discussion'! Mostly rooting for the others! But now I'm seeing differently. Fascinating!!

It tickles me to see the light-bulbs go on like this.

With 9eagle9, some people just start out assuming she is being a bitch or troll etc. Mostly those that don't get her "shaman" role.

That is wrong, ( well mostly - ha, ah )

How many times on this forum has 9eagle9 said: I can't tell you, but I can show you? And then proceeds to do just that.

We have seen these archetypal exchanges happen several times on this forum and they almost always go the same way.

Sure, sometimes its a little confronting to watch the process unfold - that says more about the observer than the observed - it says more about me when I feel that.

I do empathize with the people who get caught in it

this is on topic too, because its a question of free will, or in this case free wills.

Also, and this may be hard to swallow for some: service.

[DeDukshyn]

My children, 3 and 5, play this cute little game. I remember playing it too before I grew up.

One would follow the other around the house bugging the other. nothing major, just picking a little bit, nasty faces, etc. The instigator will even go into the other child's own room to continue this picking, teasing, bothering, annoying to the other. The goal? To make the other one "lose it" at which point the instigator declares them self the "imaginary" winner.


" ... and pop them right back into the nastily little ugly of everyday human life. "

Just add some words like "programming vector" and you can play these games as adults too.

[DeDukshyn]

Damn it all!! 9eagle9, I'm finally understanding your modis operandi!! Don't like it much but I understand it! I'm the chicken **** one watching from the sidelines in this, um, 'discussion'! Mostly rooting for the others! But now I'm seeing differently. Fascinating!!

It tickles me to see the light-bulbs go on like this.

With 9eagle9, some people just start out assuming she is being a bitch or troll etc. Mostly those that don't get her "shaman" role.

That is wrong, ( well mostly - ha, ah )

How many times on this forum has 9eagle9 said: I can't tell you, but I can show you? And then proceeds to do just that.

We have seen these archetypal exchanges happen several times on this forum and they almost always go the same way.

Sure, sometimes its a little confronting to watch the process unfold - that says more about the observer than the observed - it says more about me when I feel that.

I do empathize with the people who get caught in it

this is on topic too, because its a question of free will, or in this case free wills.

Also, and this may be hard to swallow for some: service.

It's a child's game Anchor. Why do you think she can't "tell us"? Because you can't tell a game - only play it. King Anthony played it, She plays it, there are several others here that contibute nothing substancial but just play games like these. Anyone with children or those who can recall being a child will also remember playing it before they grew up.

[Carmen]

Yes, it is a child's game and for the majority of people here it's not 'helpful'. At some point in spiritual training this lesson happens. It shocks the ego (including the spiritual ego) into taking stock. When we can be impersonal to attack, we know we are beyond it. What anyone does or says about us is none of our business. It's simply 'their story' they have made up about us, and it's a lie. We are our Selves, and our own business, our own knowing!

[DeDukshyn]

Let's leave the children's games to the children to play then.

[Carmen]

Yep, that's the only conclusion I come to with 'gameplayers'.

[DeDukshyn]

There's far better ways.

[the_vast_mystery]

Yes, it is a child's game and for the majority of people here it's not 'helpful'. At some point in spiritual training this lesson happens. It shocks the ego (including the spiritual ego) into taking stock. When we can be impersonal to attack, we know we are beyond it. What anyone does or says about us is none of our business. It's simply 'their story' they have made up about us, and it's a lie. We are our Selves, and our own business, our own knowing!

Just to make a point here, this is also a little immature. Lies can also result in deaths, and spreading rumors can ruin lives. People aren't always so understanding and by passing the wrong information to others in the end what someone's opinion of you is can definitely make your life a living hell. Unless you have the patience of a Buddha and don't care whether you're beaten for what others think you might want to reconsider what you said. If you think being murdered due to a misunderstanding rather than attempting to correct it is the more mature response, well, um...more power to you I guess?

I would think it'd be best to try and figure out why someone thinks that about you and then attempt to show how they were incorrect rather than let people gossip freely behind your back. Unless you want to live as a hermit I guess? We're social animals, we can't deny what inevitably will happen if things are left to run their course unimpeded.

I think if that's a legitimate spiritual lesson it would only be one for highly advanced practitioners. Because I think the point is to show you have absolutely no attachment to the outside world and that isn't exactly something you'd expect from everyone...

[Carmen]

I know this is off your topic Anchor but I will answer the-vast-mystery! Thanks for the opportunity vast mystery.

Right, now I have to find the words cos there is really not a short answer to your post! I guess you could call me a bit of a hermit. I love living alone in my own space to be and do exactly what I want to do. I have family and friends but I am mainly alone and for me at this stage of my life it's fabulous!

When I said about the unhelpfulness of 9eagle9s manner of posting, this is my personal response to this type of posting. Many people on Avalon are not spiritually advanced and that is not their interest, but others are! and the wisdom and quality of their posts is extremely inspiring. Spiritual advancement is my passion and I've been at it intentionally for over thirty years. We start off exploring matters spiritual and I have always insisted upon utter freedom as to how, who and what I explore. Whatever the source, it's the quality of the info that matters to me. Also I like to see others with the same sense of freedom, not curtailed and warned constantly of listening to the wrong info or being wrong all the time. I never learned much from teachers who were not encouraging. Hell, on my journey I soaked up religion, theosophy, new age, old age, ancient wisdom, miles of channelled stuff, and I wouldn't have missed out any of it. It is all grist for the mill!!

I awoke through tragedy (my daughters death) ,but the journey I started on put me offside with most of my family and friends so I had much critisizism and gossip to contend with after the time of 'sorry for your tragedy' passed. That's what I mean by saying 'what someone else thinks and says about you is none of your business'! I dislike gossip intensely and mainly do not indulge in it.

Another aspect to this reply is that with spiritual advancement/understanding comes a corresponding vibrational change. One gets to the point of realizing that thoughts do create reality and more and more the guarding of thoughts and words becomes a sacred responsibility. Also fear disappears and with that we do not attract anything to be fearful about, whether it be gossip, thieves or murderers!! And just as negative gossipy people can be like a virus that infects a place so do peaceful, happy, enlightened people infect a home, an area, a country, and that is catchy too.

The 'many worlds' idea being discussed on the thread about Bashar, is very real to me. There are no accidents, nothing that I have not created in my life. Not that I haven't had ****ty stuff in my life, but actually that's where the best learnings were. I mainly don't have to be whacked over the head with a four by two to learn stuff nowadays!! And that's quite nice!

[StarDust]

Well stated Carmen! And yes, Bashar's presentation of parallel realities is a real eye opener that lifts the spirit for sure. I find the mechanics of consciousness to be positively fascinating. Thank you for sharing your story.

[9eagle9]

It IS a game, an elaborate one played on you well before I ever came along.

The "positive' attitudes instilled by external messages sure fail people when they come under just idle scrutiny. One wonders how they will serve you if the **** ever hits the fan.

[Carmen]

Ah yes, that is the great test. Wonder how spiritual we will be when we are 'really' hungry? That why it is vitally important to be able 'ride' this body we animate, before something dramatic happens. It cannot be in charge or we are no help to it!!

[9eagle9]

Like anything else its better to have a practice run before we get hungry. Stories only get people so far, a positive attitude only gets a person so far, getting rid of what keeps you from your internal strength , will allow you to draw on it and won't matter if anything is positive or negative.

People always get their knickers in such a wad about my statements it always makes me wonder what they'd do if confronted with something with some real teeth.

[Carmen]

Well said 9eagle9! I have been very grateful of the training I've had at Ramtha's spiritual boot camp. Stuck in a huge maze in 35 degree heat, cheek by jowel with hundreds of others, blindfolded and told to focus on the void, for seven or so hours, sort of reveals to one whether or not one can rely on spirit to guide, or crumple in an emotional victim heap. It's an amazing test. One cannot think ones way through or emote through it. And there ain't no good or bad or positive and negative.

[Anchor]

I know this is off your topic Anchor but I will answer the-vast-mystery! Thanks for the opportunity vast mystery.

Thank you both Carmen and TVM, thank you also DeDukshyn and 9eagle9 also.

I got a sense we ain't done, but at least nobody tore any new holes in eachother.

Anchor..


[ Sometimes it helps to read a post that is about you, pretending like you are actually someone else. Not that you are trying to make a habit of dissonance but it can be useful to control the way in which one appreciates, understands and reacts ]

[Fred Steeves]

I know this is off your topic Anchor but I will answer the-vast-mystery! Thanks for the opportunity vast mystery.

Right, now I have to find the words cos there is really not a short answer to your post! I guess you could call me a bit of a hermit. I love living alone in my own space to be and do exactly what I want to do. I have family and friends but I am mainly alone and for me at this stage of my life it's fabulous!

When I said about the unhelpfulness of 9eagle9s manner of posting, this is my personal response to this type of posting. Many people on Avalon are not spiritually advanced and that is not their interest, but others are! and the wisdom and quality of their posts is extremely inspiring. Spiritual advancement is my passion and I've been at it intentionally for over thirty years. We start off exploring matters spiritual and I have always insisted upon utter freedom as to how, who and what I explore. Whatever the source, it's the quality of the info that matters to me. Also I like to see others with the same sense of freedom, not curtailed and warned constantly of listening to the wrong info or being wrong all the time. I never learned much from teachers who were not encouraging. Hell, on my journey I soaked up religion, theosophy, new age, old age, ancient wisdom, miles of channelled stuff, and I wouldn't have missed out any of it. It is all grist for the mill!!

I awoke through tragedy (my daughters death) ,but the journey I started on put me offside with most of my family and friends so I had much critisizism and gossip to contend with after the time of 'sorry for your tragedy' passed. That's what I mean by saying 'what someone else thinks and says about you is none of your business'! I dislike gossip intensely and mainly do not indulge in it.

Another aspect to this reply is that with spiritual advancement/understanding comes a corresponding vibrational change. One gets to the point of realizing that thoughts do create reality and more and more the guarding of thoughts and words becomes a sacred responsibility. Also fear disappears and with that we do not attract anything to be fearful about, whether it be gossip, thieves or murderers!! And just as negative gossipy people can be like a virus that infects a place so do peaceful, happy, enlightened people infect a home, an area, a country, and that is catchy too.

The 'many worlds' idea being discussed on the thread about Bashar, is very real to me. There are no accidents, nothing that I have not created in my life. Not that I haven't had ****ty stuff in my life, but actually that's where the best learnings were. I mainly don't have to be whacked over the head with a four by two to learn stuff nowadays!! And that's quite nice!

You know, every now and then I read something here, and my jaw is literally left agape. Carmen is one such person here at Avalon, who'm I am not one bit surprised would/could share a masterpiece such as above.

Talk about someone up and owning their multi-faceted responsibilities in life folks, there you are...

[Carmen]

Oh God, now you are making me cry!! Jeeze! Talk about exploring the spectrum of emotions today! Big hugs lovely man,!

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hmm, I'm not critisizing wordiness!

heh, I didn't think you were, I was freely admitting my tendency to create Posts of Epic Size when I am interested in the topic. The thing about not understanding: I get that all the time. I am getting more forward in asking direct questions so that I *can* understand. Some people see this as a Bad Thing, because they take it that I'm questioning their integrity or experience rather than the way it's been presented, in that I don't quite 'get the picture'. (and as this internet method of communication leaves little room for telepathic picture throwing, I frequently don't get the picture. It's one of the reasons I like video phone, I can pick up the pictures even unconscious senders give off and this makes engaging with others *much* more peaceful. I get agitated around speakers that are completely blank in terms of sending- and that's a lot of individuals...). So I like to ask and clarify.


I do love the challenge at times of using words of wisdom or advice in a way that does not cause others egos to rear up in self defence.

I used to use this modus operandi- now I prefer to just write and make films. I don't have the energy to negotiate the internal frailties of others: I utterly embrace openhearted engagement and exploration, I don't have the patience for navigating another's freakout spots and clunk spaces. I find with writing and film making, I get to express what it is that I want to express and anyone that doesn't like it can complain to others about my ideas or Being, I generally don't have to deal with it. This works for everyone involved, I feel. :D


Just been reading the Toltec book 'The Voice of Knowledge'. It talks about 'our story', being unique and different to every one else's story (Ahh, Sui generis again). Also, we think we 'know' other people, but we have just made up a secondary story about them!! It's all lies and conditioning we have accepted about ourselves and others.

This is one of the subjects I absolutely love the most: I love the language of the singularity, which is the language of the sui generis, when it is spoken in a really deep way. I really can't express how much that language blisses me: it's what I'm into, discovering a way of engaging with and connecting to others in such a way that holds space for *all* the possibilities that do no harm, all the singular experiences and perspectives. *bounce* It's also splendid to see another source of the 'you're interacting with another singularity through your filter, which is why non-violent communication 'I' language is so utterly crucial, as I see it, to hold the space for the vesica pisces that happens in of all moments of connection between two different Beings: when I see the energy of the connection as a *third* element, and treat it as a new creation in itself, then I can begin to dance with and explore the connection- and the other- in a completely different way.

That's the beginning of it for me, anyway... :)


To let them be and love them anyway gives them self acceptance and room to be any way they wish. :wub::wub:

I'm totally up for the absolute acceptance. :D The love part, that's a different realm for me. :P

[Carmen]

Hmm, I'm not critisizing wordiness!

heh, I didn't think you were, I was freely admitting my tendency to create Posts of Epic Size when I am interested in the topic. The thing about not understanding: I get that all the time. I am getting more forward in asking direct questions so that I *can* understand. Some people see this as a Bad Thing, because they take it that I'm questioning their integrity or experience rather than the way it's been presented, in that I don't quite 'get the picture'. (and as this internet method of communication leaves little room for telepathic picture throwing, I frequently don't get the picture. It's one of the reasons I like video phone, I can pick up the pictures even unconscious senders give off and this makes engaging with others *much* more peaceful. I get agitated around speakers that are completely blank in terms of sending- and that's a lot of individuals...). So I like to ask and clarify.


I do love the challenge at times of using words of wisdom or advice in a way that does not cause others egos to rear up in self defence.

I used to use this modus operandi- now I prefer to just write and make films. I don't have the energy to negotiate the internal frailties of others: I utterly embrace openhearted engagement and exploration, I don't have the patience for navigating another's freakout spots and clunk spaces. I find with writing and film making, I get to express what it is that I want to express and anyone that doesn't like it can complain to others about my ideas or Being, I generally don't have to deal with it. This works for everyone involved, I feel. :D


Just been reading the Toltec book 'The Voice of Knowledge'. It talks about 'our story', being unique and different to every one else's story (Ahh, Sui generis again). Also, we think we 'know' other people, but we have just made up a secondary story about them!! It's all lies and conditioning we have accepted about ourselves and others.

This is one of the subjects I absolutely love the most: I love the language of the singularity, which is the language of the sui generis, when it is spoken in a really deep way. I really can't express how much that language blisses me: it's what I'm into, discovering a way of engaging with and connecting to others in such a way that holds space for *all* the possibilities that do no harm, all the singular experiences and perspectives. *bounce* It's also splendid to see another source of the 'you're interacting with another singularity through your filter, which is why non-violent communication 'I' language is so utterly crucial, as I see it, to hold the space for the vesica pisces that happens in of all moments of connection between two different Beings: when I see the energy of the connection as a *third* element, and treat it as a new creation in itself, then I can begin to dance with and explore the connection- and the other- in a completely different way.

That's the beginning of it for me, anyway... :)


To let them be and love them anyway gives them self acceptance and room to be any way they wish. :wub::wub:

I'm totally up for the absolute acceptance. :D The love part, that's a different realm for me. :P

But, but ,but!! Writing in such a way as to not cause others' egos to rear up in self defence is using the language of the Sui generis!!?? It's honouring and allowing others unique and different perspective, their Sui Generis. No?

I don't intrude on others when their cups are full, generally. It's pointless and serves neither you or them. There has to be some sort of crack in the belief system! Some sort of openness.

Oh, and the love. I'm not talking about the sweaty, bed shaking variety :rolleyes:s. If that's what you are talking about!!:I've been there, done that. No, a book and a cup of tea is more my line! Although! If a certain Irishman turned up at my door, I might have to reconsider!! (but that's another story!)

Filmmakers have a great opportunity to convey powerful messages. Good for you.

[songsfortheotherkind]

But, but ,but!! Writing in such a way as to not cause others' egos to rear up in self defence is using the language of the Sui generis!!?? It's honouring and allowing others unique and different perspective, their Sui Generis. No?

The language of the sui generis does not involve egos, at all, which is why it can trigger so many upon hearing it. Ego as a negative isn't used in the sui generis vocabulary- it doesn't describe anything that is encompassed by a sui generis society. If one is a singularity, what does the word ego actually describe? If one is seeking to describe an expression in another that is less than sui generis, how does 'ego' actually accurately describe this? (As an aside, I find it unsurprising that a whole negative thought system has arisen around the concept of the 'ego', which in itself describes nothing more than an element of the singularity of all sui generis Beings; all healthy Beings create an internal interface with the external world and a failure or inability to do so results in such conditions as extreme autism and catatonia. Not useful in terms of interacting with an external world. Personally, I experience the persistent tar and feather job on the 'ego' as a very interesting form of a virus based attempt at destroying the singularity of the Being, which is in harmony with many other homogenising and heteronomous tactics employed in many other ways).

In sui generis language there's an intrinsic, embedded conceptual foundation that indicates both an absolute acceptance of the other individual and an unquestioning holding of space for personal responsibility, because without absolute personal responsibility there is only a base form of sui generis that is being practiced.

There is a *vast* difference in the kind of communication that happens between two individuals that utterly embrace their personal responsibility, who hold their own and the other's sui generis in equal vibration and who embody the principle of 'do no harm': it means they're engaging on a pure essence level, with zero 'defense' mechanisms and internal contracting.

This does not happen here at this point in time. I have yet to find *anyone* that, at some point or another, does not trot out a version of the heteronomy- which is the virus. I'm living into that sui generis way of communicating and I'm nowhere near that pure essence signal; the majority, who are still embedded in the virus mind, generally have zero clue what I'm extending when I extend that energy towards them. They grab their maps and filters and apply them to me, which is part of the 'contracts' discussion we're having in the Pub. Social stroking is the way society manages its addictions and fears and the vibration and embedded signal in the way individuals communicate with one another is part of this stroking.

Now, if a Being shows up that doesn't mirror those social strokings and rituals, it can cause individuals, groups, and sometimes entire mobs, to freak out. An example: as so many new Beings were showing up with an immunity to social programming and other such rubbish, the establishment saw this as an unhealthy condition (which, from their perspective, it is) and so the diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome was spread across a far, far wider spectrum of society than the diagnosis was originally created for. We also have defiance and non-compliance disorders coming at society from all directions as by the 'authorities'. Unsurprisingly, many of the markers for highly gifted individuals fall inside the parameters of both defiance disorders and Aspergers; were Da Vinci to be born in this world now, and especially if he was born in the US, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he would be seen as problematic by the school system, be diagnosed with several 'disorders' and most likely medicated.

So I experience this 'writing in such a way-' thing as speaking very diluted sui generis in such a way that isn't going to freak the other out.

Here's the thing: I can't speak diluted anything, let alone sui generis. I know that others are really good at dilution/teaching (essentially, teaching *is* the ability to dilute something down so that it can be absorbed in gradually increasing conceptual and practical expressions) and good teachers can modulate their way of communicating so that they can keep diluting something enough until they get to the point of dilution necessary for the learner. I usually don't have the space in me to do that although to some degree I can and this post is an example of where I go with that- some individuals are brilliant pre-school teachers, or primary school teachers, or high school, or college; I have been asked to express stuff at post doctorate level. I simply can't do kindergarten.

Anyone talking at a level higher than the listener is running the risk of triggering *something* in them; the issue then isn't in the sui generis, it's in a whole bunch of perceptual glitches and psychological entrainment that go along with the social programming structure that this society creates.

Examples: someone recently posted on the forum regarding some interesting studies done around exploring how competent individuals in society generally consider themselves to be, and this highlighted the vast difference between where individuals thought their competence was (which was usually high) and where it *actually* was (which was much lower). This was posted in a thread regarding the subject of 'why intelligent government will never happen', if I recall correctly, and it was a study that I reposted in several places. Another: the inbuilt entrainment that causes individuals to automatically assume that an intelligent individual is 'trying to make them look stupid' or 'thinks they think they're better than everyone else, don't you!' because they're not talking in a way that makes the listener feel comfortable. Often, for an intelligent individual, this can mean that one's conversation level has to drop so low as to become utterly painful and like wading through neck deep molasses. It actually can cause headaches and stress, but to the listener, this distress looks like arrogance.

The following took me approx 1.6 seconds to google. There are articles like this all over the net.


Any significant difference in intelligence between two people makes deep social connection a challenge. This point annoys people on both sides of the arbitrary cutoff point, but some research points to IQ differences of more than 15 points as sufficient to bar intimate, intellectual, and emotionally mutual understanding. Friendship is possible, but a certain level of closeness will not be present. In these situations, the gifted person may feel frustrated and the normal friend may think the gifted one is weird. Normal kids sometimes label a gifted kid "dumb" because what he or she says does not seem to make sense.
source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_2772_138/ai_n55503806/

What I'm saying is, sometimes, it doesn't matter how carefully one presents an idea, if it's a) too far above the understanding of the individual, b) it rocks their world too much, including about how they see themselves or c) threatens societal or personal sacred cows, there's quite likely going to be some pretty stellar 'ego' reactions. It's not my area of interest to avoid this; I'm personally interested in exploring with a group of individuals who a) have a diverse area of interests, expertise and ability and b) have a grasp of the concept of the sui generis in a solid enough way that they're able to undertake co-creation as a full on exploration of how sui generis might actually work within such diversity and c) are personally responsible enough to deal with their own freak outs.

A very simple way of describing this is: I'm a R and D Being. I utterly suck at tech support. :P


I don't intrude on others when their cups are full, generally. It's pointless and serves neither you or them. There has to be some sort of crack in the belief system! Some sort of openness.

Hence my interest in research and development- anyone involved in R and D is naturally questioning things already. :)


Oh, and the love. I'm not talking about the sweaty, bed shaking variety :rolleyes:s. If that's what you are talking about!!:I've been there, done that. No, a book and a cup of tea is more my line!

That's interesting- you just merged physical sex and love. I wasn't expressing that at all- and individuals wonder why I am so "nitpicky" about the word love. *grinning* I was talking about the 'love for all Beings' sort of idea, which I don't personally express because, as you just so beautifully demonstrated, that language is clunky and too muddied for clear communication. In the ancient Greek, there was eros and agape, 'brotherly' love, which was based on principles and actions rather than any emotion- agape I get, it's closer to the sui generis way of treating each other than any 'love one another' concept that I've seen promoted, which often contains worlds of emotional goo.


Filmmakers have a great opportunity to convey powerful messages. Good for you.

Thanks! *grinning* Although how many would be interested in watching things I would produce, given the way I experience and express my 'Verse, I have no clue. :D

[Anchor]

@songsoftheotherkind: Post #111


Wow.

I have personal experience of the IQ difference thing. When I did a lot of research based "engineering work" about 20+ years ago, I worked with smart people. Not mentioning the job, but I was one of the dumber ones among them, and it was a new experience for me as most of the jobs I did it was the other way around and I was kind of the loner and referred to as a "geek". Anyway my takeaway from that job was that I noticed that all these people described as "socially awkward" or "geeks" were nothing of the kind. They (we) were just different - it was one of the best and most stimulating jobs I had. The company was smart enough to simply herd us all away on a campus and look after us so we could get on and invent stuff they could sell.
Over time one learns ways to lessen the impact of obvious differences.

It is not just IQ either, IQ is just one dimension. There are other dimensions of difference that can really make you stand out as "odd". Levels of experience in certain professional fields, general knowledge (being a knowall), spirituality. Just wanting to choose healthy food can be a differentiator that makes people think you think that you are better than them.

Like being from "not around here" for example - LOL

Super post, very thought provoking.

Thanks

[9eagle9]

There isn't a known language that can prevent the ego from rearing up and its no one person's responsibility to tame or balm another person's ego and this is a directly relative to channeling. Channeling is where one gets the 'idea' of who they are where there destiny lies at.

Granted one's language may be least inclined to poke a person's ego if the person's ego isn't overly dense , or doesn't have the upperhand.

I'd also see how even 'sacred' languages could piss off the ego because its not being fed or given something to react to. One's true self creates, re-acting is something entirely different.

Languages of indifference tell the ego it's not important and it's not meaningful.

The ego's programming is dependent on language.


Spiritual circles where perversely the ego is ascendant and bristling with beliefs that make people bristly is where this most noticeable because much 'spirituality' is based on non-responsibility. Someone or something else is responsible for your emotional state. Much of our junk channeling emphasizes that.

Junk channeling intrenches this notion and leverages it over and over. Someone is coming to save you, you don't have to do anything. Someone greater than yourself is coming to love you. We only speak in a language that is a balm to you. We speak only of love and daisy and butterflys. It's very dense and judgemental in its undertones and subtly undermines our ability to create circumstances for ourselves.

Dis-empowerment. Its not real obviously because the moment the message and their bearers fall apart at the seams. How can a message tell me that I am great, all powerful, and then with the other mouth tell me that they must interfer and make me better?

Self accepting people don't go there. Nor do they temporize or rationalize or excuse such opposing core values because that is doing the same thing the message is doing. It's okay to decieve one's self with banalities.

A person may be inclined to know themselves and know there is no being greater than themselves (equality) so how could a being greater than themselves come and do anything? good, bad or indifferent.

Is it better to be a superior light being whose mask falls off the moment something other than light is investigated and found lacking.. Or a plain old human that doesn't crumble the moment their 'humanity' is scrutinized. Humans are multi faceted regardless if one has found and known all those facets. Stories are not multi- faceted, and are not known, they are thought. It is very easy to see that the stories and masks that people project are easily infiltrated, because they come from infiltration. Who put the idea in your head?


Its not so easy to disprove humanity (and all that that implies). Self acceptance. Humans at least provide evidence of their existence.

In normal human language this dependence on external stories is co-dependency. Love ends up being a story.

You don't have to speak at all to crank someone's belief system, although people are less likely to attack demonstrable action, and more likely to attack language. I wonder if they attack language because some intuitive part of them understands that was their means of infiltration.

In a week I can piss off a thousand people from eating a hamburger, eating a lettuce, not loving everyone, not going to church, not having a crystal clutched in every available hands, not saaloming to the earth every fifteen minutes, not reading the Bible. I piss people off by NOT doing as much as I am doing.

There's nothing I can do without triggering someones ego even though what I do has nothing to do with them, and I'm not sure how their ego got involved in my affairs. This holds true for everyone.

People create stories in their heads, for other people to see. Projection. And then are angry because people do not see them for who they are. Watching two talking heads, unfortunately if I know you for who you are, and accept it , you would not instead preferring a story that has nothing to do with your essential nature. It has nothing to do with you, and you are self alienating people as the mask comes between everyone.

The conflict arrives when their chosen story doesn't hold water and YOU do see them for who they are behind the mask.The mask is there for a reason, and its meant to hide one's lack of self acceptance. They will not accept themselves for who they are, so one is left speaking to a mask who will inevitably react when it realizes that you know that it is not the real person.

but its their stories, one would think they had control over them. If the story or the role doesn't hold water they may have to examine that is what they are showing people. Because much modern spirituality doesn't show self-responsibility more than likely they will not. Accepting one's self is the better part of learning to control one's self.

[Carmen]

Holy Hell!! I'm going to have to take the day off to read and understand all this lot you guys!! Wow!!

[9eagle9]

You should take a day off anyway..lol.

[Anchor]

People always get their knickers in such a wad about my statements it always makes me wonder what they'd do if confronted with something with some real teeth.

(I am thinking out loud here, I reckon none of it will be a surprise, but if it is lemme know)

Where you said, "my statements", I suppose that literally they are yours because you uttered them for some reason.

However it is not you that puts anything like "teeth" in them - even if they are not "things with real teeth". Or is it?

Offense is never given, only taken.

I have noticed over and over when you (or someone ) who makes an exchange of this fashion, that it is always the "other" person gives effect to the teeth in them. Thus they meet up with exactly what they are able to deal with - even if it takes time and is a bloody war in the short term - and a complete pain in the eyeballs for people watching.

I'm big on stretching analogies past breaking point, and its going to happen here :)

So, what you seem to be able to do with your "my statements" is load a gun remove the safety and hand it over.

The reader/listener decides what to do with it.

Let's consider at this point, gun safety!

I happen to believe that we should all be responsible.

What I do with a loaded gun is my own business. You can hand me a loaded gun anytime you like, if I make a mistake with it, that is my problem, my responsibility, my path, my karma. Also, lucky for me, I was trained to handle one safely, but you may have not known that.

So what do you do, if you reasonably suspect that I don't have that training or appropriate gun safety ? Or what do you do if you just happen to think I may be going to do something dumb with it?

I think your answer would be that you don't give it a second thought - because, from your perspective, it is implicitly NOT YOUR PROBLEM what I do with that gun.

I happen to agree, but not everyone does.

Even if there was apparently some hypothetical risk of them using that gun to harm you - even if it is something as mundane as wadded knickers - but that cannot happen in your world, because you are immune. You know it and are therefore not bothered about it.

You cannot pretend you don't know what people do with those guns though, because you see it. You've been round the loop a few times.

You are involved. You can't duck the process, nor your part in it, because you decided to move from being an observer, to one who has decided to make a comment.

In doing so you still had to process your inner motives and ideas through a matrix of suitable word forms in order to materialize the thinking behind them on this forum.... and all the while when you were doing that and thus loading the magazine... working the slide.... you had an opportunity to think naaa you know what, this guy is just going to take that gun and most likely have an accidental discharge - hole in foot scenario. But we see you don't always do that.

Then usually in the cases where shots are fired, it usually goes back and forth until one of a small set of possible outcomes is achieved.

You present plenty of options for people to either engage or not. They choose.

Nothing I have said above is intended to be negatively critical of you or this process. Part of me wants to say, thanks for doing what you do; but the empathy programming holds me back. I do see the blood on the carpet, even if you don't.

Do you see, as I do, this as a service?

Did you choose it, or does it just happen?

Anyway I just wanted to see if you agreed with what I have been thinking about what you do.

And at the end of the day, we didn't come here to make people feel good did we?

Nor did this guy:


Matthew 10 KJV: "Think not that I am come to send peace on Earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

Look how that worked out for him in the end.

And his truths still offend people.

Its good to be free, but it is a such a slog at times when mired in density.

Shoot!

[9eagle9]

I wouldn't know it for negative criticism because what comes from your mind no more belongs to me than it does to you.

It is perhaps NOT negative criticism because it didn't come from the mind.

Everyone be quiet and no one will get hurt.

I always wondered why bank robbers said that and now I know. It would not be funny to some to know the criminal element, the thief, knows more about resistance than the 'holy ones.' That is why the thieves of the world have held sway.

If one is quiet inside themselves they don't get hurt?

If one's mouth is quiet people still get hurt.

I see the blood on the carpet ....but.....what does one see beyond the blood.

If one begins to initiate in meditation to quiet the mind the first thing they notice is their mind is not quiet.

So they seek to quiet the mind, and after some struggle realize the mind is not easily quieted, but don't ask "If it is MY mind, and I ask it to be quiet while will it not quiet?"

If I ask my hand to pick up a cup it obeys because it is my hand.

My mind however will not quiet when asked.

"I must presume it is not my mind and therefore will not quiet at my will."

I acknowledge the minds of others will not obey them if they have no will over their own minds.

I am not compelled to accept what othesr insist I accept if it not theirs to give in the first place.

We can only give what we really have. If I am something I can give it to you if you are willing to accept it.

I am shooting blanks and still people are wounded and blood is spilled on the carpet.

Who makes the bullet real? Would the bullet be less real if were made of crushed rose petals, and pretty pose and love and light?

I am shooting blanks; the mind creates the bullet.

I see the blood on the carpet, I also see that it is not their blood.

If people do not believe what they say about themselves, I have to ask why should I when I do not believe my own mind I should believe theirs.

Do I have the authority to find out what is conveyed to me is fact or fantasy?

Yes.

Do I have the authority to find out if one is speaking from the mind or the spirit.

Yes.

If I do not have the authority to do so then I would have to accept anything regardless if it were false or not.

What and where would I be if I did not have this authority?

[ThePythonicCow]

People always get their knickers in such a wad about my statements it always makes me wonder what they'd do if confronted with something with some real teeth.

There isn't a known language that can prevent the ego from rearing up and its no one person's responsibility to tame or balm another person's ego

In a week I can piss off a thousand people from eating a hamburger, eating a lettuce, not loving everyone, not going to church, not having a crystal clutched in every available hands, not saaloming to the earth every fifteen minutes, not reading the Bible. I piss people off by NOT doing as much as I am doing.


You cannot pretend you don't know what people do with those guns though, because you see it. You've been round the loop a few times.

You are involved. You can't duck the process, nor your part in it, because you decided to move from being an observer, to one who has decided to make a comment.


I am shooting blanks; the mind creates the bullet.


Do I have the authority to find out what is conveyed to me is fact or fantasy?

Yes.

Do I have the authority to find out if one is speaking from the mind or the spirit.

Yes.


From the way it looks to me, 9eagle9, you are often not getting permission, clearly given either a priori or post hoc, from those to whom you administer your particular brand of "tough love healing". Nor, when it is evident from the offended reaction of another member that you did not have permission to "get in their face", are you taking that as an indicator that you should back off, much less apologize.

Never mind that some "always get their knickers in such a wad." Never mind that some will take offense at how others lead their lives, even if no contact is initiated. Never mind that an offense can not be given, unless it is taken. Never mind that it is not your responsibility to balm another person's ego or to make them feel good. Never mind that you have full authority to determine what you accept.

You do not have authority from this forum to initiate conflict with other members. Your authority to "find out" ends at the other members virtual nose.

To run a forum with a variety of members, of different temperaments, some more ready to give offense and some more ready to take offense, the forum moderation works better, in my view, if on the whole it takes a rather simple minded position that doesn't favor either the quick to offend or the easily offended. We ask members not to attack other members.

Granted, it's not that simple. Long standing members with substantial contributions tend to get more of a break than newcomers. Picking on another member that most of us have enjoyed gets more scrutiny than picking on a member who has tended to annoy some of us. Simple, low brow, crude bullying is more likely to get moderated than more subtle confrontations. Members get to critique other members' expressed views, but not other members' character, and sometimes this distinction is not clear cut.

Some members will object that these subtleties are "not fair", and they'd have a point. However no simple rule adequately captures the full intent of this forum's members, so some discretion is desirable, and given that the moderators are humans too, likely inevitable.

[StarDust]

From the way it looks to me, 9eagle9, you are often not getting permission, clearly given either a priori or post hoc, from those to whom you administer your particular brand of "tough love healing". Nor, when it is evident from the offended reaction of another member that you did not have permission to "get in their face", are you taking that as an indicator that you should back off, much less apologise.

Never mind that some "always get their knickers in such a wad." Never mind that some will take offense at how others lead their lives, even if no contact is initiated. Never mind that an offense can not be given, unless it is taken. Never mind that it is not your responsibility to balm another person's ego or to make them feel good. Never mind that you have full authority to determine what you accept.

You do not have authority from this forum to initiate conflict with other members. Your authority to "find out" ends at the other members virtual nose.

To run a forum with a variety of members, of different temperaments, some more ready to give offense and some more ready to take offense, the forum moderation works better, in my view, if on the whole it takes a rather simple minded position that doesn't favor either the quick to offend or the easily offended. We ask members not to attack other members.

Granted, it's not that simple. Long standing members with substantial contributions tend to get more of a break than newcomers. Picking on another member that most of us have enjoyed gets more scrutiny than picking on a member who has tended to annoy some of us. Simple, low brow, crude bullying is more likely to get moderated than more subtle confrontations. Members get to critique other members' expressed views, but not other members' character, and sometimes this distinction is not clear cut.

Some members will object that these subtleties are "not fair", and they'd have a point. However no simple rule adequately captures the full intent of this forum's members, so some discretion is desirable, and given that the moderators are humans too, likely inevitable.

Well stated paul. Thank you for providing perspective into your process as a moderator. It is insightful.

[9eagle9]

I'm not under the illusion that I can heal anyone.

Yes yes I know we are all just supposed to accept everything that is spoonfed to us to keep the peace , Paul.

Direct insults are one thing, and it seems that those who cannot defend their belief are allowed more in terms of insult, than those who are watching another provide evidence they don't believe what they are attempting to spoonfeed everyone else.

The defensiveness begins after they've found themselves out.

I have noticed those who are unable to defend their positions after blowing themselves out of the water are granted more leeway, than those who are.

I suppose that would be fair, as I probably would not allow someone to beat up those who are unarmed either.




People always get their knickers in such a wad about my statements it always makes me wonder what they'd do if confronted with something with some real teeth.

There isn't a known language that can prevent the ego from rearing up and its no one person's responsibility to tame or balm another person's ego

In a week I can piss off a thousand people from eating a hamburger, eating a lettuce, not loving everyone, not going to church, not having a crystal clutched in every available hands, not saaloming to the earth every fifteen minutes, not reading the Bible. I piss people off by NOT doing as much as I am doing.


You cannot pretend you don't know what people do with those guns though, because you see it. You've been round the loop a few times.

You are involved. You can't duck the process, nor your part in it, because you decided to move from being an observer, to one who has decided to make a comment.


I am shooting blanks; the mind creates the bullet.


Do I have the authority to find out what is conveyed to me is fact or fantasy?

Yes.

Do I have the authority to find out if one is speaking from the mind or the spirit.

Yes.


From the way it looks to me, 9eagle9, you are often not getting permission, clearly given either a priori or post hoc, from those to whom you administer your particular brand of "tough love healing". Nor, when it is evident from the offended reaction of another member that you did not have permission to "get in their face", are you taking that as an indicator that you should back off, much less apologize.

Never mind that some "always get their knickers in such a wad." Never mind that some will take offense at how others lead their lives, even if no contact is initiated. Never mind that an offense can not be given, unless it is taken. Never mind that it is not your responsibility to balm another person's ego or to make them feel good. Never mind that you have full authority to determine what you accept.

You do not have authority from this forum to initiate conflict with other members. Your authority to "find out" ends at the other members virtual nose.

To run a forum with a variety of members, of different temperaments, some more ready to give offense and some more ready to take offense, the forum moderation works better, in my view, if on the whole it takes a rather simple minded position that doesn't favor either the quick to offend or the easily offended. We ask members not to attack other members.

Granted, it's not that simple. Long standing members with substantial contributions tend to get more of a break than newcomers. Picking on another member that most of us have enjoyed gets more scrutiny than picking on a member who has tended to annoy some of us. Simple, low brow, crude bullying is more likely to get moderated than more subtle confrontations. Members get to critique other members' expressed views, but not other members' character, and sometimes this distinction is not clear cut.

Some members will object that these subtleties are "not fair", and they'd have a point. However no simple rule adequately captures the full intent of this forum's members, so some discretion is desirable, and given that the moderators are humans too, likely inevitable.

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm not under the illusion that I can heal anyone.
Well ... whatever it is you think you're doing ... don't attack other members.


Yes yes I know we are all just supposed to accept everything that is spoonfed to us to keep the peace , Paul.
No - totally misleading - I am not asking you to accept everything to keep the peace. What you accept or not is your business and keeping the peace is not the primary objective.


Direct insults are one thing, and it seems that those who cannot defend their belief are allowed more in terms of insult, than those who are watching another provide evidence they don't believe what they are attempting to spoonfeed everyone else.
In the eyes of some of us, you too have been allowed more in terms of insult than many members, and few would consider you one "who cannot defend their belief" :).


The defensiveness begins after they've found themselves out.
Don't blame the victim.


I have noticed those who are unable to defend their positions after blowing themselves out of the water are granted more leeway, than those who are.
See above.


I suppose that would be fair, as I probably would not allow someone to beat up those who are unarmed either.
... does that reluctance to allow such apply to yourself as well?

[9eagle9]

I will retract any insults if they were of course perceived to be that way, and certainly I have the authority to know that about a person regardless if I remark upon it or not.

I was under the impression the sturdy Gods and ultra dimensional beings among us couldn't be dismayed by my feeble mortal meanderings as they have extolled and pounded. I after all didn't paint them with those labels. They did.

There can be no 'non conflictive' discourse on channeling because the topic itself is loaded with conflict and opposing core values. Which is what the thread was about before people took channeling personally.

I will note that the above posts about trolling and the vivid graphics about ''not having a life' will remain in place but since they don't have anything to do with me personally (since I didn't accept the bullet) I don't care if they are removed or not.

And not to go terribly off topic the issue is here is the the Forum guidelines. They sound workable and socially and politically correct but those are conditions. Correct? Certain conditions in a forum where half the forum is running around talking about how things should be unconditionable?

All humans on board please remember to accomadate higher dimensional beings.

I am not sure when the forum was developed that that was taken in mind. Certainly all forums have conditions. What perhaps was not expected was that there would be such a vast amount of people demanding un-conditionable. Certainly enough of that sort of content like in channeling is allowed on the forum to suggest that unconditonable is acceptable, which aligns awkwardly with the forum's conditions of 'correct' conduct which is based mostly on social conditioning.

Or MORE confusing a vast mass of people who claim to be un-conditionalbe but demanding a whole bunch of conditions but then screaming censorship when those conditions are made.

They oppose each other other.

FREX: We are to speak only in positive terms but much of the forum content has a decidedly negative undertone. The moment someone posts a horribly graphic video of control and brainwash one has broken the forum guidelines . Temptation. The only thing that would prevent temptation to remark negatively on the topic is to remove the thread . Which would defeat the whole purpose of a forum.

I think much of the forum's problems and moderations would smooth over if that were fully understood.

What is the intent of the forum.

No one has ever told me.

But...it may seem the guidelines oppose it. This frequently happens when someone has an 'ideal' without considering the reality of the ideal. Like perhaps during forum development one expected more opposition to the content contained within but perhaps didn't consider a mass herd of demanding unconditional and conditions all at once.

that would put moderation in a place of having to herd wild rabid cats.

...and...it puts the general membership in the same position of 'attempting ' to keep the peace (which is a condition)

Much of opposition out there in the world , that which is opposed to our sovereignty, is delivered in the form of social conditioning.

And then when you have a forum that explores such subjects, and maintains order with....more social conditioning. it rather reminds one of the problems that would crop up if one were attempting to remove the noose around one's neck by wrapping a iron collar arounds one neck.

Which of course causes conflict, indeed no one would be able to avoid it.

This isn't a critique of management mind you its just the way that it is nor am I suggesting that something has to be changed....but it is enlightening to know where the source of one's troubles are coming from--if one objectively examines the conditions and guidelines and see how they oppose each other.

I predict these troubles will not go away any time soon either.

[DeDukshyn]

I do see your actions in a new light 9Eagle9, but I think you do a very sloppy job in an attempt to do something you think is helpful. If one can say that you never mean anything that you say (just look at all the inaccurate projects you put on me for your game), but your only goal is to play this game, then that sits a little better. But it appears to me you just like to judge and condemn others - even in arenas where you have no expertise, no knowledge, or educaction on, and put down other's peoples views.

Like I said, if we can conclude that all your words are for this game play and you don't mean any of it, that is better than judging others and hiding behind the game. To me I see the latter, but I'd like to believe the former. Unfortunately, that also dictates I never take your words at any value again. My 2 cents ;) Take it or leave it. If you wish to continue the game here (not that I have any say), I would say your methods and view of others needs some refinement. Meant as heartfelt advice from my point of view, not attack.

[9eagle9]

I never said I didn't mean any of it. If you makes you feel better to 'think' I didn't mean any of it do whatever gets you through the day but that is still playing the game.

I said it's all a game. Within the context of the game people assigning meanings to things.

Outside of the game or on the fringe of it, all these things that have so much meaning for people in the game...have no meaning.

Any wife who has stared blankly at her husband who spends 30 hours a week watching ESPN will tell you that.

For the husband the games have quite a lot of meaning.

for the wife...not so much so...with the understanding that sorts of involvement in a game will certainly distract and even undermine what is real.

If people want me to accept the reality of themselves then they need to show it.

If not expect that some people don't take the masks that others wear that seriously.

At least the last check during last Halloween showed me as much.

there is nothing out there that can better show what ails us then the things that we observe for ourselves here. You go out there without discernment and you will get sucked into a different reality within the game.

people don't see the games out there are just a means of taking you to a different level of the game.

Some people just see all of it as another part of the game.

[ThePythonicCow]

I will note that the above posts about trolling and the vivid graphics about ''not having a life' will remain in place but ...
That graphic remained, but I called out the poster on it, on thread, above.


FREX: We are to speak only in positive terms ...
Some would ask that we only speak in positive terms ... but I wouldn't.

I don't consider "negative" or "positive" to be generally useful categories to distinguish what's worthy of consideration and what isn't. There is much "negative" material worth considering.


... but much of the forum content has a decidedly negative undertone.
exactly :).



The moment someone posts a horribly graphic video of control and brainwash one has broken the forum guidelines .

Not so. A few times I have asked a member to make it easy for other readers to choose whether to view the more horrible graphics being presented, and if the graphic does not contribute to the discussion in a useful way, then it's likely to be moderated somehow. But not all horrible graphics violate forum guidelines; see for example Houman's thread.


Like perhaps during forum development one expected more opposition to the content contained within but perhaps didn't consider a mass herd of demanding unconditional and conditions all at once.

that would put moderation in a place of having to herd wild rabid cats.

...and...it puts the general membership in the same position of 'attempting ' to keep the peace (which is a condition)

Anyone requesting unconditional acceptance won't find it on this forum.

Please distinguish between how we treat the material, and how we treat other members. We ask members to treat each other with a modicum of respect; we're certainly not asking members to agree with everything.


I predict these troubles will not go away any time soon either.
I'll agree with that prediction :).

[DeDukshyn]

I never said I didn't mean any of it. .

It makes no difference. Due to the fact that you are game player, and do not shoot "just blanks" (when someone is not playing the game they way you like you upgrade to pellets, not helpful, not spiritual, but like I said "sloppy" method, and at this point driven by pure ego). Thus I will take no time discern your game from anything else you say that may have value and suggest all others may want to do the same.

What Carmen was indicating as potential for this method is not what you do. She gave you way too much credit IMHO. You may have started out attempting this?

[DeDukshyn]

Person A: A highly educated scientist, who is working in the field of quantum physics. Discovers the close connection between conscious intent and matter in action. Basically it is concluded that consciousness affects everything. It is not understood fully, but it is clearly a real affect that can be repeated in laboratory results.

Person B: not that smart. has been programmed to believe that consciousness cannot affect matter, very rigid programming. Hears person A telling him that conscious intent affects all matter, and tells him it is bunk.

Person A tries to explain the concepts and how he was able to come the realization of this truth. Person B cannot grasp any of it whatsoever, even looking at person A's evidence, as he is not in situation to even be able to understand.

Person B then thinks that person A is being mind controlled to believe some delusion and shouts it out to everyone quickly, starts playing some stupid game, to distract from the true revelation, of the discovery of value, so as not to seem "wrong" or "stupid".


How do we know you're not just another "Person 'B'"? There's thousands of those, dragging down the advancement of humanity with their own ignorance and ego. This is what makes these games bad sometimes, the person playing it has to assume a role of superiority, where in fact they may just not know something or understand something.

[Beren]

Anchor;



Freewill means you can do what you will freely.

Ideally it is respected. Less ideally people can play sophisticated games of entrapment with you in order to have you USE your will in ways that they want you to use it, rather than perhaps you making your own authentic, unfettered choices.

I might be doing the same thing right now!

I admit it. I pulled this one out. :)
This is the very old game of ones whom we called Satan,Lucifer,Archon,Dark enemy or whatever name or title a human can add.

Free will is to be respected always. And they do that.
It`s just that this "leading the water on your mill" is highly dangerous method which causes anger and wars.
In all forms.

Key is to be aware of the possibility thus always checking the motive of the any thought,cause or action.
That`s called wisdom.

Now following this discussion on thread it can be seen that there are attempts of this very behavior as it is a case all over the forum and life in general.
One must be diligent to uproot the seed of doubt thus fear of missing the aim or how-to-not-get-result-desired.

This very seed is the main weapon of dark side or ones who imagine they are dark side or evil.
Its manifestations are manifold ,but when tracked vigorously ,always it`s found that this is the prime weapon used against anyone and anything standing on the way of evil.

This again is a proof that nothing can be done to anyone without their permission.
Wisdom lies in knowing this and being steadfast in your decision of something. Not easily swayed with fear or doubt.

[9eagle9]

So its more of a demonstrable event , something is occurring on an energetic, vibrational and like you indicated even a physics level, and it's not cloying messages from outer space?

This is Eagle's question, that started the whole deadfall of "I don't feel safe anymore" chain of reactions. I posed the question to Dedukshyn and was responded to by Robert J. N (not tackling that last name). So someone took it upon themselves to be insulted by a question that was not posed to them.What do we call that? Vivek has an interesting thread on how that occurs.

1) is a question an insult?
2) are we not supposed to question?
3) why are we here if we are not?
4) Can we agree not to question and just close the forum?

The insulting word 'cloying which was instantly converted into Eagle issuing an assaultive insult.

A word.

We are of course sensitive to language which is how we all got programmed in the first place.

Again I have to ask if a word sets people into a reactionary state what will become of them when something 'real' threatens them.

now another question that risks implying more insult.


Should I continue in this vane?

[DeDukshyn]

That question was clearly answered by my post that prompted your question. No more excuses. The game is over. (but I will only see you as playing games from this point forward) This is finished.

[Fred Steeves]

Do ya'll know that for the most part anyway, we're all on the same journey, always in search of the same "thing"? Or else it's the "common remembrance", just filtered through different shades of consciousness?

More and more I'm tending towards simplicity, and our old bud George Harrison it seems had caught onto this a ways back.

s-KAvPbO8JY

Soft Eyes

[9eagle9]

Clearly and by observation it is not. I would take that as an desire that I not continue on that vane (he, he) Because you have thought it to be so doesn't mean that it is.

And now we've thrown the car in reverse . You are now reacting to a post that involved Robert J. N.

Whats up with that?

or is the question offensive?

Be careful here dude....


That question was clearly answered by my post that prompted your question. No more excuses. The game is over. (but I will only see you as playing games from this point forward) This is finished.

[DeDukshyn]

What the living hell is that supposed to mean? I'm not reacting to Robert - you make up your own delusions and react to them. Let this be testament. I'm leaving this right where it is. Goodbye. over. it is for me .. how about you? Never mind. I don't care what you think ;)

[ThePythonicCow]

This is Eagle's question, that started the whole deadfall of "I don't feel safe anymore" chain of reactions.
Ah ... one of the universal truths of spitting contests ... "The other guy started it!" :drama:

As DeDukshyn said, enough.

:cow:

[DeDukshyn]

She's still trying to play the game .... do I pass? Oh wait ... never mind. I don't care. Do I pass now? ... Oh wait ... ;)

[9eagle9]

It means if you truly believed it was all over you wouldn't have responded to my last post where you said 'this is finished'. Obviously it is not if you had to react more.

I said it wasn't over and you had to validate that. So you did. (thank you btw)

As Anchor noted earlier I'm really into the showing / demonstrating part of things rather than just tellling. I did give people the choice ...'should I carry on in this vane....and you made your choice.

It will be hard pressed for anyone to say that I was directly insulting in that post.

If I was , Paul can remove it and I will post no protest.









What the living hell is that supposed to mean? I'm not reacting to Robert - you make up your own delusions and react to them. Let this be testament. I'm leaving this right where it is. Goodbye. over. it is for me .. how about you? Never mind. I don't care what you think ;)

[Anchor]

Anchor;

I pulled this one out. :)
This is the very old game of ones whom we called Satan,Lucifer,Archon,Dark enemy or whatever name or title a human can add.

Free will is to be respected always. And they do that.
It`s just that this "leading the water on your mill" is highly dangerous method which causes anger and wars.
In all forms.

Key is to be aware of the possibility thus always checking the motive of the any thought,cause or action.
That`s called wisdom.

Now following this discussion on thread it can be seen that there are attempts of this very behavior as it is a case all over the forum and life in general.
One must be diligent to uproot the seed of doubt thus fear of missing the aim or how-to-not-get-result-desired.

This very seed is the main weapon of dark side or ones who imagine they are dark side or evil.
Its manifestations are manifold ,but when tracked vigorously ,always it`s found that this is the prime weapon used against anyone and anything standing on the way of evil.

This again is a proof that nothing can be done to anyone without their permission.
Wisdom lies in knowing this and being steadfast in your decision of something. Not easily swayed with fear or doubt.

You caught my imprecision. I debated altering it and figured, someone will catch it and we can go round the elaboration loop.

Free will cannot of course be "used", its just a condition of complete freedom of choice.

However, thanks :)

On your response I totally agree. Free will is ALWAYS respected, I know that, and that is the thing that give ultimate power.

The fascinating thing is, that most people do not even know what it is.

Generally, incarnated people don't KNOW they are free.

Hence the thread - I figured we may as well pick a contentious subject like channeling on Avalon, and mix that with the function of free will; and explore where that gets us.

I figured the "offense" rendered between believers and non-believers would be enough. It was not, but got taken care of anyway - LOL

Permission is another factor we need to get around to before we are done.

Care to start?

[songsfortheotherkind]

I have personal experience of the IQ difference thing. When I did a lot of research based "engineering work" about 20+ years ago, I worked with smart people. Not mentioning the job, but I was one of the dumber ones among them, and it was a new experience for me as most of the jobs I did it was the other way around and I was kind of the loner and referred to as a "geek". Anyway my takeaway from that job was that I noticed that all these people described as "socially awkward" or "geeks" were nothing of the kind. They (we) were just different - it was one of the best and most stimulating jobs I had. The company was smart enough to simply herd us all away on a campus and look after us so we could get on and invent stuff they could sell.

*nodding* ( I don't mind being called a geek, neither does my primary partner, although I'm not really a geek because I'm not at all tech oriented, that's his thing)

This understanding of the way geeks works is one of the reasons Google is such a geek heaven to work for, as opposed to Microsoft who have zero understanding of geeks. A friend of mine works for Trolltech which is also a bit of a geek heaven. Geeks and R&D creatives of any type *definitely* think in different ways from, say, the accountant of the company.

My partner Triffid_Hunter is a firmware developer, robotics engineer and generalist that walked into the CSIRO in Brisbane, put his home made robotic car down on the desk and said 'this is what I've been doing at home, got anything interesting to do here?' They gave him a job on the spot at five pay levels higher than a uni grad even though he'd walked out on his degree after less than one semester; he'd realised that he was going to be bored out of his gourd for five years getting a degree in something where he already knew more than was going to be taught, because he was Self taught. He left that same organisation less than a year later because he was bored out of his gourd with the stifling hierarchical strangulation of any true innovation and diversion from the 'path'.

We're together because one of the things he noticed about me was I was 'the most intelligent and interesting Being' he'd ever met. He also has his moments. :P


Over time one learns ways to lessen the impact of obvious differences.

I would like to adjust this statement to reflect my own sui generis (which can sometimes be mistaken for bloodymindedness) and add 'when one is in the mood, or can be arsed or it's a matter of absolute necessity.' :P


It is not just IQ either, IQ is just one dimension. There are other dimensions of difference that can really make you stand out as "odd". Levels of experience in certain professional fields, general knowledge (being a knowall), spirituality. Just wanting to choose healthy food can be a differentiator that makes people think you think that you are better than them.

Like being from "not around here" for example - LOL

zackly. This was at the heart of my response to Carmen- given the parameters of difference on *many* levels, it is actually utterly dependent on many factors as to whether an individual isn't going to have an 'ego' response to a sui generis level conversation or not, and this is more dependent on their level of development within that conceptual framework than how you have expressed an idea. Creating the core development group where this can happen, be it spiritual, R&D, whatever, is part of the process of getting to a point where *truly* interesting things can happen rather than a whole bunch of defense systems going off left right and centre. I'm still in the space of doing my 'outreach' for that, because I'm so much more interested in doing the deep work, then documenting, then diving again than in getting caught up in semantics and philosophical stand offs.

This, as you know, takes a particular kind of mind, spirit and intention to create. This is what I personally experience as being part of the evolution that is being observed: it's becoming rather clear that it takes a particular kind of Being to hold the space and intention of real transformation and this requires the ability to embrace utterly new and unfamiliar ways of approaching things.

The concept of the sui generis and do no harm is what I developed as a response to the seemingly insoluble conflicts of perspective and experience that happen when singularities exist in the same space: what I realised was that the story about the differences was the thing getting in the way, so I moved backwards in the hologram to see what could assist with the issue of the stories about difference. Sui generis is what came to me. Do no harm came swiftly after, for rather obvious reasons.

It takes a particularly fluid kind of mind to embrace the ideas of singularity/All, the hologram, the multiverse, the uselessness of freaking out about a different perspective within a framework of a multiverse of infinite possibility, letting go the idea of 'truth' within said framework of infinite possibility, and a whole heap of other things that are really useful in terms of truly leveling up; just the experience of what it's like to try and express conceptual platforms is often enough to get the visionaries wandering off in search of better things to do, like sorting one's sock drawer.

This is why I don't pay any attention to the ideas of 'the ascension of *all* 'mankind' ' and other concepts that carry that signal: I realised long ago that if the future of the sentient races on this planet depended on *every Being here* getting a clue then we were all royally screwed. This resulted in some intense nihilism and depression for a short while, after which I focused on the signal that *wasn't* about a numbers game- and here I am. *big cheesy grin*


Super post, very thought provoking.Thanks

You're welcome. :D It's awesome to be talking about the concepts within me on this level.

[Fred Steeves]

As Anchor noted earlier I'm really into the showing / demonstrating part of things rather than just tellling.


Careful what it is you think you're demonstrating here Eagle. Have you seriously stepped back yet, counted to 10, and thought this thing through?

Make no mistake I highly respect you, but I'm just sayin...It's such an easy trap for all of us to get sucked in to...Your's truly here is no exception, as we all well know...

[9eagle9]

I didn't have to think it through , thinking as I have demonstrated time and again is rather a useless process unless is one considering making a sandwich. After a while things become terribly predictable .

After about 7,000 years they become horribly predictable. And then mundane and yawningly predictable. And that is how the world was won.

I am no more immune to the pleasures of exposing the game than those who play it.

Under my own self authority I will remove myself from the game the thread so effectively demonstrates before I am ordered to by those officiating it. Which infringes on my self authority.









As Anchor noted earlier I'm really into the showing / demonstrating part of things rather than just tellling.


Careful what it is you think you're demonstrating here Eagle. Have you seriously stepped back yet, counted to 10, and thought this thing through?

Make no mistake I highly respect you, but I'm just sayin...It's such an easy trap for all of us to get sucked in to...Your's truly here is no exception, as we all well know...

[Anchor]

Under my own self authority I will remove myself from the game the thread so effectively demonstrates before I am ordered to by those officiating it. Which infringes on my self authority.

Buggerit.

:(

[DeDukshyn]

Many people start off with good intentions to try to "teach" others. So silently and gradually does an ego step in. Noted in myself and almost all others around me.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Under my own self authority I will remove myself from the game the thread so effectively demonstrates before I am ordered to by those officiating it. Which infringes on my self authority.

Buggerit.

:(

You're almost a sadist ;) But I love the way you step in to threads now and again to do commentary. Priceless ;)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

What is the intent of the forum.

If I understand correctly, the original purpose of the forum was to form intersupportive ground crews and communities to better weather the changing tides. I think only a small minority here have had that intention, though. Most are spectators or those who wear spirituality like a costume so they can admire their reflection. I'd even go as far as to say the majority of the people here are just here to admire their own reflections in one way or another. A fair number of gems here, though. Even a few with actual wisdom born of real practice. But I digress.

I became frustrated with that ground crew goal myself as I found that this common goal alone was not enough to allow me to form community with those whose philosophies and values were very different from mine. I mean... I don't think I play well with others.

p.s. I'm not sure, but I think I just invented the word "intersupportive". Do I get a prize?

[DeDukshyn]

Good game ... lousy execution. My 2 cents ;)

[Anchor]

Many people start off with good intentions to try to "teach" others. So silently and gradually does an ego step in. Noted in myself and almost all others around me.

So too does judgement. This is worse I think.

We judge in others what we often fail to judge in ourselves.

We are so messed up, that extracting these things, these programs, what we have been molded into, so skillfully that we fail to even see it - removal, by whatever means that happens, usually involves some form of suffering. Also some "unusual" things happening along the way.

None of this is really 9eagle9 territory you know.

It takes two (or more) to tango.

The planet is changing. We are changing - the format and properties of our INCARNATE lives are changing.

And...

We don't like change

So...

**** happens.

So...

We need to do the best we can.


You're almost a sadist ;) But I love the way you step in to threads now and again to do commentary. Priceless ;)

Yeah well, whatever :)

If 9eagle9 comes back, its because she is free to do so. This thread may go down a new path - I want to see her back, but I am seeing something different to you I suppose.

Regardless of all that...

I like what comes out of debate like this. I see people acknowledging stuff.

We ALL teach and we ALL learn.

Kindness is best, because we ALL suffer to varying extents.

Free will goes hand in hand with choice.

Choice is what we are here to do.

Choices have consequences that include suffering.

Currently I think the most important choice we make: is do we serve others more than ourselves, or do we serve ourselves by using others, or at the expense of others?

Both are valid.

One however is a polarity that is aligned with the path that this planet is taking, the other is not. For the ones who serve themselves at "our" expense, time is short.

We choose.

[DeDukshyn]

I think in closing on this thread (for me), and mirroring Anchors post above. There's a **** tonne of learning to be had on this thread by all. I did. [UPDATE] -- and without 9eagle9 it would not have happened. I can give thanks for that. All my opinions still stand with me though, but they are just opinions. ;)


EDIT: Damn Anchor .. your post above was really brilliant .. .thanks for the commentary ;)

[songsfortheotherkind]

I guess I want to progress my "mission" and perhaps, I um, err, I cant keep my mouth shut...

*laughing* I resemble that remark! heh heh heh...


What do you think about the idea that we have a "higher-self" ?

*bounces* oooooh, the multiverse- can't wait to get back from being out in the Matrix so that I can chime in on this one. :D

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I want to add a word. How unusual, right? And I hate for this thread to start being about 9eagle9, but that seems to have already happened. And I try not to jump in at times like these because 9eagle9 needs no defender. But, perhaps more insight can be gained on all sides here.

I thanked a post that Paul made above because I know that we have to use some civility with each other in order to survive as a forum. My hat's off to Paul's patience and wisdom as always. But, I really don't think we need to coddle each other's delusions. At least not here. I think there is a middle way.

9eagle9, to me, is someone who presents truth without bias and without malice. I really do think that the bullying that some perceive is their own unresolved sh*t slapping them in the face. She does not hang anyone, but she does provide the rope of clear seeing. In the breaking down of illusions, sh*t comes up to be resolved and dissolved or to be in conflict with us.

Does 9eagle9 have the right to do this? I don't think she can help it. It is who she is. And for those who are not prone to getting distracted in reaction, it is actually a gift. For those with less wisdom, it is simply annoying.

Just think about that, if you would. 9eagle9 has a treasure trove to share for those who can put their ego aside and consider her words. I am constantly grateful for her presence here.

"Nothing causes more consternation in a group of hypocrites than one honest man." - Albert Einstein

[DeDukshyn]

I want to add a word. How unusual, right? And I hate for this thread to start being about 9eagle9, but that seems to have already happened. And I try not to jump in at times like these becasue 9eagle9 needs no defender. But, perhaps more insight can be gained on all sides here.

I thanked a post that Paul made above because I know that we have to use some civility with each other in order to survive as a forum. My hat's off to Paul's patience and wisdom as always. But, I really don't think we need to coddle each other's delusions. At least not here. I think there is a middle way.

9eagle9, to me, is someone who presents truth without bias and without malice. I really do think that the bullying that some perceive is their own unresolved sh*t slapping them in the face. She does not hang anyone, but she does provide the rope of clear seeing. In the breaking down of illusions, sh*t comes up to be resolved and dissolved or to be in conflict with us.

Does 9eagle9 have the right to do this? I don't think she can help it. It is who she is. And for those who are not prone to getting distracted in reaction, it is actually a gift. For those with less wisdom, it is simply annoying.

Just think about that, if you would.

"Nothing causes more consternation in a group of hypocrites than one honest man." - Albert Einstein

The only way I can add to this is to cite some channeled material of "Ramtha" (how fricking ironic, eh?). Ramtha say that the 10 commandments are the ultimate conspiracy because it prevents conflict. He says he "evolved" because of his conflict, his revenge, anger, vengeance, killing, near death, then finally ... peace. Self(ego) control, and ascension. A soul can only take .. "so much" then it breaks. And distrusts its ego. "wakes up" so to speak. Without conflict .. evolution is low. This is something I have fully declared in many posts. Chaos = advancement. I perhaps understand 9eagle9's intentions better than most ... I think her personal methods could use A LOT of refining (to remove ego), perhaps it is on the line of forum rules as Paul indicates - maybe not appropriate at all, but I do understand it.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I want to add a word. How unusual, right? And I hate for this thread to start being about 9eagle9, but that seems to have already happened. And I try not to jump in at times like these becasue 9eagle9 needs no defender. But, perhaps more insight can be gained on all sides here.

I thanked a post that Paul made above because I know that we have to use some civility with each other in order to survive as a forum. My hat's off to Paul's patience and wisdom as always. But, I really don't think we need to coddle each other's delusions. At least not here. I think there is a middle way.

9eagle9, to me, is someone who presents truth without bias and without malice. I really do think that the bullying that some perceive is their own unresolved sh*t slapping them in the face. She does not hang anyone, but she does provide the rope of clear seeing. In the breaking down of illusions, sh*t comes up to be resolved and dissolved or to be in conflict with us.

Does 9eagle9 have the right to do this? I don't think she can help it. It is who she is. And for those who are not prone to getting distracted in reaction, it is actually a gift. For those with less wisdom, it is simply annoying.

Just think about that, if you would.

"Nothing causes more consternation in a group of hypocrites than one honest man." - Albert Einstein

The only way I can add to this is to cite some channeled material of "Ramtha" (how fricking ironic, eh?). Ramtha say that the 10 commandments are the ultimate conspiracy because it prevents conflict. He says he "evolved" because of his conflict, his revenge, anger, vengeance, killing, near death, then finally ... peace. control, and ascension. A soul can only take .. "so much" then it breaks. And distrusts its ego. "wakes up" so to speak. Without conflict .. evolution is low. This is something I have fully declared in many posts. Chaos = advancement. I perhaps understand 9eagle9's intentions better than most ... I think her personal methods could use refining, perhaps on the line of forum rules as Paul indicates, but I do understand it.

You lost me at Ramtha. Another thread for that someday.

[DeDukshyn]

Lol, Intentional?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hehehe "association" Games ;) Maybe just time for "level 2"?

[DeDukshyn]

There's all kinds of games to play. And they can get complex. Let's get back to respect and love for each other, shall we? ;) EDIT: (Er .. but with some level of questioning .. ;))

[modwiz]

What is the intent of the forum.

If I understand correctly, the original purpose of the forum was to form intersupportive ground crews and communities to better weather the changing tides. I think only a small minority here have had that intention, though. Most are spectators or those who wear spirituality like a costume so they can admire their reflection. I'd even go as far as to say the majority of the people here are just here to admire their own reflections in one way or another. A fair number of gems here, though. Even a few with actual wisdom born of real practice. But I digress.

I became frustrated with that ground crew goal myself as I found that this common goal alone was not enough to allow me to form community with those whose philosophies and values were very different from mine. I mean... I don't think I play well with others.

p.s. I'm not sure, but I think I just invented the word "intersupportive". Do I get a prize?

Intersupportive, is probably your creation.:first: I like it and might find a use for it if there is a real chance at a serious discussion of intersupportiveness. :p

[DeDukshyn]

As a fairly regular word inventor myself, I'll be adding intersupportiveness to my vocabulary ;)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

As a fairly regular word inventor myself, I'll be adding intersupportiveness to my vocabulary ;)

That might be counterintersupportive of you.

[DeDukshyn]

I prefer to think of it as supraintersupportive ;)

[DeDukshyn]

I want to add a word. How unusual, right? And I hate for this thread to start being about 9eagle9, but that seems to have already happened. And I try not to jump in at times like these becasue 9eagle9 needs no defender. But, perhaps more insight can be gained on all sides here.

I thanked a post that Paul made above because I know that we have to use some civility with each other in order to survive as a forum. My hat's off to Paul's patience and wisdom as always. But, I really don't think we need to coddle each other's delusions. At least not here. I think there is a middle way.

9eagle9, to me, is someone who presents truth without bias and without malice. I really do think that the bullying that some perceive is their own unresolved sh*t slapping them in the face. She does not hang anyone, but she does provide the rope of clear seeing. In the breaking down of illusions, sh*t comes up to be resolved and dissolved or to be in conflict with us.

Does 9eagle9 have the right to do this? I don't think she can help it. It is who she is. And for those who are not prone to getting distracted in reaction, it is actually a gift. For those with less wisdom, it is simply annoying.

Just think about that, if you would. 9eagle9 has a treasure trove to share for those who can put their ego aside and consider her words. I am constantly grateful for her presence here.

"Nothing causes more consternation in a group of hypocrites than one honest man." - Albert Einstein

I'm going to agree with this. At the same time I request discernment to see if and/or when a person is just being "Person 'B'" (see few posts above if needed)

Each interaction requires discernment. To support something 9Eagale9 says, ... don't be "lulled". ... things slowly change over time ...

[songsfortheotherkind]

"Nothing causes more consternation in a group of hypocrites than one honest man." - Albert Einstein

I fully appreciate your perspective. I do not share the same perspective of the individual concerned, I personally do find this individual combative and have experienced this personally. I have accepted that our personal approaches and experiences are vastly different and that I am free to choose engagement or not with any individual. It's not a question of judgement, it's a question of 'ah, our styles create unnecessary conflict, so we're better off working in/communicating with different groups': in this case, this is entirely possible.

There are so many here in this forum and there are many perspectives and approaches; I absolutely know I'm not every one's cup of tea and quite possibly not even their glass of water when they're parched from a week in the desert. This is utterly ok as it is with me- I don't require homogeny in any way at all in order to get along with others and actually have found that *agreement* and *acceptance* are vastly different things which many confuse as being the same- agreement and acceptance are often two of the most contorted and contractual words I encounter. There's a world of difference between accepting a Being in the fullest sense of sui generis and agreeing with their perspective and expression in a way that takes up that perspective through embodiment and assimilation into our own. Frequently, individuals assume if you are doing the one, then you're doing the other and then get very disgruntled and upset when further encounters demonstrate otherwise.

I have observed that there is a fundamental sloppiness and intentional blurriness in the way language is used in the Western culture. It intentionally creates a miasm of misunderstanding and defense that fuels the underlying purpose and intention of the Western culture/paradigm itself. Personally, I'm interested more in looking at the pathways that remedy and dissolve these, than getting caught in the myriads of traps within it. To me, it's a far more creative, useful and interesting pursuit. :)

[StarDust]

I really do think that the bullying that some perceive is their own unresolved sh*t slapping them in the face.

When any forum member continues to harass another across a number of threads just to provoke a reaction, then I call that bullying. You may not agree with my assessment and are more than welcome to continue being an ardent supporter of this technique. There is absolutely nothing "unresolved" from my perspective with regard to my heritage. In this instance, what was being done was taking pop shots at my heritage as if that would somehow magically change anything. That behavior is childish harassment no matter how you slice it up.

You are welcome to candy coat the process all you want. But for those who don't appreciate the game, approach, rope (or whatever other colorful metaphor you wish to invoke), the behavior is unwelcome when trying to have a civilized discussion with other members who are genuinely interested in what you have to say.

When such advances boarder on harassment, one usually has the good sense to back off. Unfortunately, this thread has demonstrated that some will stop at nothing to drive their point of view down the throat of another just to provoke a reaction; then claim that this reaction discredits the provoked as being unbecoming of this or that. Life and learning is far greater than the results of a low level sting operation wrapped up in a child's game.

[StarDust]

WM,

I've reorganized my thoughts since I thought that would be your reaction. Sure, I've stoked some flames here and there, but I've always left the poker by the campfire when going to bed; and with the exception of a few, I've found common ground with most everyone. For others, it's a game with no end and no winner. Being lured into a spider web, only to be thrown a 'rope' is not welcome by me and many others.

I reserve the right to choose who my teachers are or are not. Forcing a point of view by virtue of some game that I didn't sign up for and without my permission is a violation of freewill of choice.

Above all, I don't play mind games and I don't appreciate them being played on me. After all, there is nothing to be "won" on this forum. It's only an exchange of ideas from my perspective and nothing more.

[Rocky_Shorz]

remember part of many of our gifts are the ability to "feel" the written word...

If someone is furiously SCREAMING in their mind when they type a love and light note, their words are Harsh and Angry...

I usually stay away from heated threads, not worth the brain damage.

But I will jump in if I see someone getting pummeled by someone not understanding the power of their words...


many are afraid of psychics and the thought someone can look into their head, that is why I wanted to share how it all really works to relieve the fear.

you can't stop you Spirit from speaking to another...

people can stamp their feet, jump up and down screaming that they don't want people looking into their heads, at the same time their Spirit is kicking back with the others watching the scene and laughing...

when someone starts arguing with their subconscious, they are wrapped in a white jacket and hauled off to a nice padded cell...

can't be done, so stop worrying about the AI, Psychics, mind control etc and understand you... are in control

understand the power in your written words, the gifted read it...

when someone slams me with a comment, I ignore it until they try again after calming down, some people enjoy fighting, they thrive online because they can get downright mean and nasty with no repercussion...

we are Avalon, and here to share with each other everything we are experiencing...

6 months 13 days away from something none of us know about.

the public is coming to us for answers, not to see us tearing each other up...

so, ummm

mellow out everyone, we'll be fine...

[DeDukshyn]

Edit ... decided to just say I appreciate the post above.

[StarDust]

remember part of many of our gifts are the ability to "feel" the written word...

If someone is furiously SCREAMING in their mind when they type a love and light note, their words are Harsh and Angry…

Well stated! Energy signatures are unmistakable.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Edit ... decided to just say I appreciate the post above.

I chuckled seeing your first comment...


"programming vectors" ... ;) ;) ;) <couldn't resist>

if reading a post makes you feel good enough to share a joke, it's meant to be... ;)

[ThePythonicCow]

mellow out everyone, we'll be fine...
To anyone reading this in the future ... there have been several post edits and a post deletion in the preceding half dozen or so posts, so what you see now is the result of people responding to posts which responded to deleted posts which were responding to earlier versions of posts no longer visible to anyone except those with "mod" powers.

If it doesn't quite make sense to your reading ... you're right :).

[DeDukshyn]

:o        ______________

[StarDust]

mellow out everyone, we'll be fine...
To anyone reading this in the future ... there have been several post edits and a post deletion in the preceding half dozen or so posts, so what you see now is the result of people responding to posts which responded to deleted posts which were responding to earlier versions of posts no longer visible to anyone except those with "mod" powers.

If it doesn't quite make sense to your reading ... you're right :).

I guess future onlookers will have to "feel the [un]written word" ;)

[Rocky_Shorz]

I think of it as what you don't know won't hurt you...

Paul has one of those really cool Men in Black Pens...

everyone look right here for a moment... >>>FLASH<<<

[eileenrose]

I think of it as what you don't know won't hurt you...

Paul has one of those really cool Men in Black Pens...

everyone look right here for a moment... >>>FLASH<<<

You mean one of those 'don't rock the boat' pens.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Pretty soon we will have a thread about Paul. ...just saying.

[DeDukshyn]

One of those, just walked in when the jokes over scenarios and caught the last bit ... looks like it anyway ... Paul's right ... won't make sense ;)

[Rocky_Shorz]

well some think of it as rocking the boat, most of us Avalon Lifers, just see a bunch of friends sitting back and beating each other over the head with their keyboards, watching it's pretty hilarious if you don't take it serious...

there comes a time when a Ref needs to step in and see if they can get the thread back on track and no I'm not on topic, but seems like we need to go through this every year, so glad to see it nipped in the bud quick...

the energy leading to this solstice is huge, and we're still a few weeks away

[9eagle9]

Not to intrude on the thread because I care to continue this after I've removed myself but if this 'game' is ended or as you say 'Its' finished".

Or as Paul says. Enough.

Soo....if this is concluded....why are you now haunting my PM box?

If you in fact think this game is finished. In your mind it is not obviously. As I stated previously, and am now repeating. (further demonstrating my previous point at your expense)

Should I ask the moderator who had to intervene on your behalf ask you to stay out of my PM if is as you have declared this is finished?


And why would I have to do that if in fact you have declared this to be finished, as has the moderator?

Paul, care to enlighten me?






Good game ... lousy execution. My 2 cents ;)

[DeDukshyn]

Here's the PM to 9eagle9:


You didn't break what you though you were trying to. That wasn't the program. You were wrong. But you broke something. There was real benefit for me. For that, Thank -you you with no love or happy faces; just thanks.

Do I hear a "Pop"?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Like I said, I'd show that in the end you are the same as all of "us".

[9eagle9]

Then you have demonstrated that Dedukshyn A who throws the Gauntlet Down and Cries "Finished ' is far different than Dedukshyn B who crawls off to privately email to demonstrate they aren't really finished but would prefer to conclude what is not finished out of the public eye so no one notices the difference between A and B.

Lulled yet?

Concluded, over and out.




I want to add a word. How unusual, right? And I hate for this thread to start being about 9eagle9, but that seems to have already happened. And I try not to jump in at times like these becasue 9eagle9 needs no defender. But, perhaps more insight can be gained on all sides here.

I thanked a post that Paul made above because I know that we have to use some civility with each other in order to survive as a forum. My hat's off to Paul's patience and wisdom as always. But, I really don't think we need to coddle each other's delusions. At least not here. I think there is a middle way.

9eagle9, to me, is someone who presents truth without bias and without malice. I really do think that the bullying that some perceive is their own unresolved sh*t slapping them in the face. She does not hang anyone, but she does provide the rope of clear seeing. In the breaking down of illusions, sh*t comes up to be resolved and dissolved or to be in conflict with us.

Does 9eagle9 have the right to do this? I don't think she can help it. It is who she is. And for those who are not prone to getting distracted in reaction, it is actually a gift. For those with less wisdom, it is simply annoying.

Just think about that, if you would. 9eagle9 has a treasure trove to share for those who can put their ego aside and consider her words. I am constantly grateful for her presence here.

"Nothing causes more consternation in a group of hypocrites than one honest man." - Albert Einstein

I'm going to agree with this. At the same time I request discernment to see if and/or when a person is just being "Person 'B'" (see few posts above if needed)

Each interaction requires discernment. To support something 9Eagale9 says, ... don't be "lulled". ... things slowly change over time ...

[DeDukshyn]

"pop" ..... There was no ill intent in that PM. I meant it. It was merely giving credit due in case you were blinded by something that prevented you from seeing it.

[Anchor]

If it doesn't quite make sense to your reading ... you're right :).

I knew you would do that, which is why I downloaded the thread earlier - HA :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Pretty soon we will have a thread about Paul. ...just saying.

Oh they already exist... just not on this forum ;)

[Sebastion]

Methinks you were right 9eagle9, programs will always provide their own evidence....




Then you have demonstrated that Dedukshyn A who throws the Gauntlet Down and Cries "Finished ' is far different than Dedukshyn B who crawls off to privately email to demonstrate they aren't really finished but would prefer to conclude what is not finished out of the public eye so no one notices the difference between A and B.

Lulled yet?

Concluded, over and out.

[ThePythonicCow]

If it doesn't quite make sense to your reading ... you're right :).

I knew you would do that, which is why I downloaded the thread earlier - HA :)
It weren't me ... honest!

Outside of deleting one post that the post author asked to have deleted (which post the author had already edited down to nothingness), all the other edits (between posts #159 and #164 above) were done by the post authors, on their own initiative so far as I know.

[another bob]

All we are ever trying to protect and defend is some image we have of ourselves. The more reality we invest in that self-image, the more we take it to be who and what we are, and so we become fixated in positions and cling to them as a matter of personal survival, threatened by anything perceived to be crossing the line in the sand we've drawn around our imaginary position.

All positions are positions in mind, and have no concrete or enduring reality, except what we grant them in our afflicted case of mistaken identity. In actuality, we are not the self-image we are attempting to assert, confirm, and defend. Self-images are simply costumes or uniforms we don to accomplish particular activities, but then we typically forget that the costumes are just costumes, and come to believe that they represent our true identity.

In this way, we get stuck in positions that in turn need preserving, and the life flow is cut off by the fixation of attention generated by this assumption of false identity. Suffering is the inevitable consequence of fixating identity in transient self-images, which can only be relieved by letting go of clinging to any position. Our free will provides the option -- stay glued to a fixed position and reap the result, or swim freely, untethered by any self-imposed anchor.

[Anchor]

Outside of deleting one post that the post author asked to have deleted (which post the author had already edited down to nothingness), all the other edits (between posts #159 and #164 above) were done by the post authors, on their own initiative so far as I know.

No worries, I was having fun. Your moderating gets my support even if it sometimes doesn't go down the way I want it. You and the moderators keep this place doing its fine work - on levels both seen and unseen; and you have my gratitude as ever.

[Beren]

You caught my imprecision. I debated altering it and figured, someone will catch it and we can go round the elaboration loop.

Free will cannot of course be "used", its just a condition of complete freedom of choice.

However, thanks :)

On your response I totally agree. Free will is ALWAYS respected, I know that, and that is the thing that give ultimate power.

The fascinating thing is, that most people do not even know what it is.

Generally, incarnated people don't KNOW they are free.

Hence the thread - I figured we may as well pick a contentious subject like channeling on Avalon, and mix that with the function of free will; and explore where that gets us.

I figured the "offense" rendered between believers and non-believers would be enough. It was not, but got taken care of anyway - LOL

Permission is another factor we need to get around to before we are done.

Care to start?

Yep.

Let`s roll on.

This is a very good mind practice for incarnated folk to break the mind maya that we`re eternally bound thought it looks like it.
Why? Because mind isn`t given to us for nothing and can be unfathomable tool and gift-if used properly.

So far souls down here, clones,drones and ET`s are playing with this idea of worthlessness of humans.
Fact is totally opposite.

Christ reminded us about this.
Let`s do a count:
1.raising the dead in body
2.teaching about love and all of its facets
3.producing food from thin air (from other energy field)
4.healing in all ways
5.bending laws of physics at will
6.communique with other spirit entities and knowing the power
7.just beING.
8.living easy,living free (not a season ticket for a one way ride...)
9.showing to all that a man is above pettiness-(ye are gods)
.
.
.

Christ wasn`t the only one who taught this.
Hence we see the reminders by our highest self (God -Creator) of who we really are.

So again down here mind believes the maya and thinks we`re worthless.
Because it believes so and by being powerful beyond reason ,mind created this condition on Earth where we live hell instead of heaven.

Thing is to show the mind that we`re powerful and that mind grasp what it created all along.
So if that all along was created by the mind- the mind should realize that IT IS powerful to re create all anew!

I see changelings and similar materials as a sting to the soul and mind to activate and participate in new creation.
All against being dormant and ill persuaded.

This maybe sounds as philosophical discussion and it is but it is ESSENTIAL to awakening.

[SKAWF]

regarding freewill,

i'm not sure that merely having the freedom to choose is the best description of it.
yeah, you can take what you're given, or you can choose something else,
but its still a choice embedded in this system, and its not your system.
you might find, if you look hard enough, that your conformity was bought a long long time ago.
before you even knew anything about it

then they told you how the world works and all the rest of the programing,
so that later on in life, you claim to have freewill because you can choose any of the things that they provide.
freewill....... when the very language and system of thought came from them?

how many people can genuinely say that if they wanted to....
they could change the entirety of their lives at any point?

i imagine most would say yes,
then, less than a second or two later would be a list of all the things like a job,
or a family and a million others, that keep them fixed in their current pattern.
free will?

the ability to choose from a narrow band of options.
provided we make it through the indoctrination
and agree to spend most of our lives working
think about that.....

from 4 years old, till average 20 being 'educated',
then work for 45 yrs, so you can have the last decade to yourself.
free will?

not much point if you give your life away

steve

[Beren]

SKAWF

Ah but all is free will. But see, here we are entering the broader spectrum of existence.
Before you were born into this world ,you knew where you are going and what are the odds. So you chose to come and deal with this reality.

This is a very short description and I don`t know do you believe in it or not.

It`s opening of the door which cannot be closed until all is done and seen and confirmed.

I will conclude for tonight that looking straight from this world point of view ,we`re quite stuck because of the system.
But that can be sorted out, just takes much more energy.

[SKAWF]

SKAWF

Ah but all is free will. But see, here we are entering the broader spectrum of existence.
Before you were born into this world ,you knew where you are going and what are the odds. So you chose to come and deal with this reality.

This is a very short description and I don`t know do you believe in it or not.

It`s opening of the door which cannot be closed until all is done and seen and confirmed.

I will conclude for tonight that looking straight from this world point of view ,we`re quite stuck because of the system.
But that can be sorted out, just takes much more energy.

i would like to know how it is, that you're aware,
of your previous life, the transition from one existence to another,
and of knowing that you made a choice to come here.
because from my perspective, thats a huge claim to make.
as is stating any connection to a higher density, (someone else made that claim)


and just my opinion, the system will be sorted when we give it NO energy at all.

thanks in advance

steve

[songsfortheotherkind]

On your response I totally agree. Free will is ALWAYS respected, I know that, and that is the thing that give ultimate power.

*nodding* This is getting into the territory that I've been exploring the past few years. I was long prowling around and exploring the puzzle of they're totally capable of destroying everything in the blink of an eye, why don't they do that?. I spent a little time briefly considering the traditional reason in the western culture- the biblical god- before dismissing the biblical god as a description of a group of the controllers, given that god's proclivity for bloodshed, narcissism, vengeance and wholesale destruction. There were, however, some interesting clues regarding the existence of *some* Power that not even the controllers were able to go up against and free will seemed to be tied to this. As my memory system (heh, the 'not from around here and sudden walk in' related dilemma) became more cohesive things became clearer regarding the free will concept that for me coalesced into the sui generis. Sui generis as I have explored and experienced it is the foundation that gives free will its firepower, so to speak.


The fascinating thing is, that most people do not even know what it is. Generally, incarnated people don't KNOW they are free.

And you know, given the behaviour of the many in the past, this was a good thing imo. Now, the consciousness and awareness is rising so is the taking up of the free will embodiment. Statistically speaking it's still a fraction of the population that are waking up to this; it's long ceased being a numbers game for me though. I'm far more interested in the integrity of the signal- it really only takes one truly aware one to hold the signal and a whole group can be uplifted, as I have seen and understand it. I have personally experienced intentionally lifting another individual's signal (with their permission of course) because they wanted to experience what they could sense in me- I didn't do it to my own frequency, just where I sensed they'd be on the edge of their own. It had really interesting results and usually the individual freaked out. I know the passing on of frequency and knowledge via touch is also possible, which is where the 'upload the jump program' stuff comes into it. It's not something I'd do with the average bear, though... :P


I figured we may as well pick a contentious subject like channeling on Avalon, and mix that with the function of free will; and explore where that gets us.

*laughing* Clever Talamascan...


I figured the "offense" rendered between believers and non-believers would be enough. It was not, but got taken care of anyway - LOL

conversation stoppers and cockblocking, useful virus detection tools since 200,000 BC. :D


Permission is another factor we need to get around to before we are done. Care to start?

*bouncing* Can I play too? I really love this sui generis foundational stuff. :D *snoopy dancing*

[Anchor]

*bouncing* Can I play too? I really love this sui generis foundational stuff. :D *snoopy dancing*

Honestly, you do not need to ask :)

[songsfortheotherkind]

i would like to know how it is, that you're aware, of your previous life, the transition from one existence to another, and of knowing that you made a choice to come here.

I'd like to answer this from my personal perspective, if I may, while adding that I have no idea how Beren will answer it.

I Am. With all that comes with this, including a full set of memories that I've been restoring and a kick arse internal compass pointed at my sui generis. I Am my own authority and Guide. I don't need or look for external agreement or authority at all.


because from my perspective, thats a huge claim to make.

It is, as you have pointed out, only huge depending on the perspective of the individual hearing the statement. To a Being like me, this isn't huge at all, it utterly resonates: so what then? Is it a case of you being able to embrace that 'there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio-' ? As evolving Beings, it's my observation that we're going to *continuously* be presented with Things Coming At Us Out Of Left Field, and it's up to us how that goes. My understanding is that the energy is always asking 'evolve? or die?' :) But that's just my perspective.


as is stating any connection to a higher density, (someone else made that claim)

If someone comes up to me and says 'I'm really a pineapple in disguise', why waste the opportunity to discover how pineapples experience the multiverse by standing there arguing with them about it? As long as they're not harming anyone, what difference does it make HOW they experience their own Self? Who are we to enforce *our* perspective, just because theirs differs in ways that our own gets a bit baked noodle about? I personally would not say that this individual is claiming to be a disguised pineapple, they are expressing that this is their experience and thus it absolutely is as they express it is. If I then go judging that against my *own* internal map, this says more about *me* than it does about them.


and just my opinion, the system will be sorted when we give it NO energy at all.

This, absolutely- go towards what we *want* to create, not what we *don't* want, because I have experienced my Self that what I give attention to I get more of, every time. Who wants to give crap energy and attention, unless one is planning on putting it on the garden?

:D

Hope it was ok to butt in. :)

[Rocky_Shorz]

well I'll toss in another little nugget...

where we all came from everything was free with a thought, a dimension that there is never need, or lacking...

your Spirit/Sub-conscious volunteered for this ride...

the struggle is the meaning of this 3D conscious existence to appreciate what and where we all came from...

and where we are all going to...

your conscious self, will just be a memory of your Spirit...

[songsfortheotherkind]

[

*bouncing* Can I play too? I really love this sui generis foundational stuff. :D *snoopy dancing*

Honestly, you do not need to ask :)

Goodie, because you absolutely know I wasn't going to be able to keep my nose out of it anyway. *big cheesy grin, with more snoopy dancing*

[Beren]

SKAWF

Ah but all is free will. But see, here we are entering the broader spectrum of existence.
Before you were born into this world ,you knew where you are going and what are the odds. So you chose to come and deal with this reality.

This is a very short description and I don`t know do you believe in it or not.

It`s opening of the door which cannot be closed until all is done and seen and confirmed.

I will conclude for tonight that looking straight from this world point of view ,we`re quite stuck because of the system.
But that can be sorted out, just takes much more energy.

i would like to know how it is, that you're aware,
of your previous life, the transition from one existence to another,
and of knowing that you made a choice to come here.
because from my perspective, thats a huge claim to make.
as is stating any connection to a higher density, (someone else made that claim)


and just my opinion, the system will be sorted when we give it NO energy at all.

thanks in advance

steve


Steve,

Songsfortheotherkind has pretty much answered you . :)
I didn`t pop in here claiming anything. I stated the obvious truth of all.
You too have the connection ,just need to reactivate it.

Ever since I was child I felt this inner connection with spirit and God. Couldn`t explain it until last few years.
My first memory before recollection of other memories was : " Here we go again!"
Then few shots of me looking through this newborn eyes into room where my mother was in hospital.

Then all was blank until age of four.

Many years I didn`t pay attention to this memory or even discarded it but then I did the scrutiny test with many angles to it and realized that this is MY memory.
Then the door opened and years and years on one by one, memories came back.
I always put them on the test to see do they belong to me or not.

And because of this connection in spirit I was able to communicate with many beings and great spirits though I didn`t realized what this was at all.
I often thought that I have huge imagination and similar stuff. But then people started to appear with stories and experiences and silently confirming my own ones which placed me in awe situation.
Puzzle became obvious and pieces were falling in.

I regained some of my memories ,though eve those would fill in many books. But the thing is that either one will believe me or not since I cannot make any proof to skeptics since all of this are MY memories and experiences and my family` ones.

Often in last few years I would be led to travel somewhere and when there I would get the review of the details of one of the past lives. Why`s where`s and how`s.
It`s like you get the urge to be somewhere and when there , you find yourself in energy vortex ,unseen to others where you get this flood of memories and emotions.

Powerful indeed and very beautiful.


I have a deep connection with Creator first ,then Christ ,then all this beings of whom we see described with more or less accuracy in books or movies.
I have a history in my close family of dealing with elves.
Proofs and things that your hair would stand up if I was able to tell them all.

But I don`t tell tell them.
I see no point in making this public since we all have them and I am not a special guy or somehow beyond or higher than others.

True my connection is strong and I speak with God 24/7 in spirit communique. I tune in various frequencies and sometimes with more or less effectiveness I can communique with various life forms on planet and beyond.
Here and there I receive regards from brothers and sisters from other star systems and similar stuff but I don`t feel that because of this I am extra special.

Why?

Because ALL of us here are doing this in a way or two.
You can and probably do this too, just attaching this to irrelevant forms of thought or communique.

Huge majority of this communication is in spirit. Visions are there as follow up, then silent trips to other realms and dimensions.
It`s not like we see in the movies though sometimes they are spot on.

All of this you will have to trust me since I cannot produce physical evidence for the spiritual and other dimension things.
But you will now this when you connect deeper in spirit and probably we`ll hang out somewhere there.

[StarDust]

i would like to know how it is, that you're aware,
of your previous life, the transition from one existence to another,
and of knowing that you made a choice to come here.
because from my perspective, thats a huge claim to make.
as is stating any connection to a higher density, (someone else made that claim)


and just my opinion, the system will be sorted when we give it NO energy at all.

thanks in advance

steve


Steve,

Songsfortheotherkind has pretty much answered you . :)
I didn`t pop in here claiming anything. I stated the obvious truth of all.
You too have the connection ,just need to reactivate it.

Ever since I was child I felt this inner connection with spirit and God. Couldn`t explain it until last few years.
My first memory before recollection of other memories was : " Here we go again!"
Then few shots of me looking through this newborn eyes into room where my mother was in hospital.

Then all was blank until age of four.

Many years I didn`t pay attention to this memory or even discarded it but then I did the scrutiny test with many angles to it and realized that this is MY memory.
Then the door opened and years and years on one by one, memories came back.
I always put them on the test to see do they belong to me or not.

And because of this connection in spirit I was able to communicate with many beings and great spirits though I didn`t realized what this was at all.
I often thought that I have huge imagination and similar stuff. But then people started to appear with stories and experiences and silently confirming my own ones which placed me in awe situation.
Puzzle became obvious and pieces were falling in.

I regained some of my memories ,though eve those would fill in many books. But the thing is that either one will believe me or not since I cannot make any proof to skeptics since all of this are MY memories and experiences and my family` ones.

Often in last few years I would be led to travel somewhere and when there I would get the review of the details of one of the past lives. Why`s where`s and how`s.
It`s like you get the urge to be somewhere and when there , you find yourself in energy vortex ,unseen to others where you get this flood of memories and emotions.

Powerful indeed and very beautiful.


I have a deep connection with Creator first ,then Christ ,then all this beings of whom we see described with more or less accuracy in books or movies.
I have a history in my close family of dealing with elves.
Proofs and things that your hair would stand up if I was able to tell them all.

But I don`t tell tell them.
I see no point in making this public since we all have them and I am not a special guy or somehow beyond or higher than others.

True my connection is strong and I speak with God 24/7 in spirit communique. I tune in various frequencies and sometimes with more or less effectiveness I can communique with various life forms on planet and beyond.
Here and there I receive regards from brothers and sisters from other star systems and similar stuff but I don`t feel that because of this I am extra special.

Why?

Because ALL of us here are doing this in a way or two.
You can and probably do this too, just attaching this to irrelevant forms of thought or communique.

Huge majority of this communication is in spirit. Visions are there as follow up, then silent trips to other realms and dimensions.
It`s not like we see in the movies though sometimes they are spot on.

All of this you will have to trust me since I cannot produce physical evidence for the spiritual and other dimension things.
But you will now this when you connect deeper in spirit and probably we`ll hang out somewhere there.

Well stated Beren!

It's understandable that some people may find the fact that others have rediscovered their past lives/existence/place of origin as strange or even unbelievable. As you so eloquently pointed out, it's a process that takes time, asking the right questions of self and in limited instances (as it was in my case) the guidance of Native American Shaman, Elders, Seers, & Astrologers. When you begin to ask these questions, answers will be delivered; and when the answers are asked repeatedly from different sources and ALL the answers return the same, you take notice. In my case, knowing about my past was critical to my mission for the future. It was a definitive part of my awakening process that then permitted full scale activation of my reason for incarnating as human during this time of transformation.

I wholeheartedly agree that such information is available to the seeker who is willing to ask the questions and put the pieces of the puzzle together. This takes time. I first understood that I was "different" and "not from here" at age 11. Discovering what that meant didn't solidify until my late 20's. And finding out my true 'home' didn't come into light until 15 years later. Again, it certainly was not an overnight process for me.

Ultimately, that information is not critical to anyone other than the seeker. The only reason my background came into discussion is because people inquired about it. I have no reason to cover up my truths and am happy to provide what I know to be true of myself. I must admit that the backlash from certain people was surprising at first, but it was also an opportunity for growth which I chose to embrace. I certainly don't consider it some special pedigree; only that I might offer a perspective that others without my background may not have considered. It is simply who/what I am in the same way that my current "identity" in this incarnation (ethnicity/nationality/education/career position) are unmistakeable to the casual onlooker.

[SKAWF]

apologies in advance, his may be a long post.
likely it will be in tiny pieces, and addressed to a few people. possibly 4.

SKAWF
'i would like to know how it is, that you're aware, of your previous life, the transition from one existence to another, and of knowing that you made a choice to come here.'

songsfortheotherkind
'I'd like to answer this from my personal perspective, if I may, while adding that I have no idea how Beren will answer it.

I Am. With all that comes with this, including a full set of memories that I've been restoring and a kick arse internal compass pointed at my sui generis. I Am my own authority and Guide. I don't need or look for external agreement or authority at all.'

okay then, if you have a full set of memories, can you write a little detailing your previous life, how your body expired, the state you were in when you consciously decided to incarnate here at this time, and the journey from there towards your current incarnation?

i should say, i'm not asking you to prove anything, only to describe the experience.

SKAWF
'because from my perspective, thats a huge claim to make'

songsfortheotherkind
'It is, as you have pointed out, only huge depending on the perspective of the individual hearing the statement. To a Being like me, this isn't huge at all, it utterly resonates: so what then? Is it a case of you being able to embrace that 'there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio-' ? As evolving Beings, it's my observation that we're going to *continuously* be presented with Things Coming At Us Out Of Left Field, and it's up to us how that goes. My understanding is that the energy is always asking 'evolve? or die?' But that's just my perspective.'

well i do see and accept what your saying to a point.
we have the ability (at whatever level we are at) to sit atop the entirety of our knowledge, its interesting that a group of people may be living in completely different worlds, even when they are in the same geographical location.
and our current perspectives greatly influence how we deal with the things we encounter.

SKAWF
'as is stating any connection to a higher density'

songsfortheotherkind
'If someone comes up to me and says 'I'm really a pineapple in disguise', why waste the opportunity to discover how pineapples experience the multiverse by standing there arguing with them about it? As long as they're not harming anyone, what difference does it make HOW they experience their own Self? Who are we to enforce *our* perspective, just because theirs differs in ways that our own gets a bit baked noodle about'

from experience, i have found that those who make these sorts of claims, fall very short when it comes to providing substance.
yeah sure people can state that they dont have to prove anything, but i see that as a kop out answer.

for example, remote viewing. there are people on this planet,
that actually teach others how to do it.
somewhere along the lines, they have examined the concept,
and learned enough about it that they can convey the principles of it to others.
so if i ask someone how they do it, they should be able to tell me.
OR
someone who claims to be from a higher vibration...
there was one, who claimed to be of the 10th density!,
3rd = human
7th = a star
so what the f**K does that make a 10?
often i think that the titles people give themselves are just words that they like the sound of.
often there's no substance behind them, and if you ask a question about it, they cant answer it.
it makes a mockery of the whole system. i dont 'argue' points about 'higher' stuff as i believe its counter productive, but i will ask questions.
mostly, its possible to tell if someone is..... what they say they are, by seeing how they operate.
if i thought there was something to what they are saying, i would engage with them.
if not i'd walk away. to each their own.

Rocky_shorz

'your Spirit/Sub-conscious volunteered for this ride...'

how do you know that?,
it may be something you believe is the case for you, but how can you say the same applies to me?
and where did you get the information from in the first place?

and to Beren
i would quote your post, but this one feels like it'll be a a meter long already.

what you have written qualifies as substantive to me.
i get the feeling that if i were to ask you more about it, that you could tell me.
i respect that even before i form an opinion about what you've said.
so thanks.

ALL THAT SAID,

i dont doubt that there are people who act as a catalyst for entities from 'elsewhere'
nor do i doubt that there are those here now, who originate from a place a long long way away.
but sometimes, i doubt the credibilty of a lot who make those claims, based on the way they conduct themselves, and a complete failure to back up anything they say with 'substance'...... which is not the same as proof.

[StarDust]

SKAWF
'as is stating any connection to a higher density'

songsfortheotherkind
'If someone comes up to me and says 'I'm really a pineapple in disguise', why waste the opportunity to discover how pineapples experience the multiverse by standing there arguing with them about it? As long as they're not harming anyone, what difference does it make HOW they experience their own Self? Who are we to enforce *our* perspective, just because theirs differs in ways that our own gets a bit baked noodle about'


Precisely, songsfortheotherkind is spot on in this assessment! If there is "harm to no one and good will to everyone" being expressed, then enforcing another's perspective is only acts a limitation to the observer and nothing more.


from experience, i have found that those who make these sorts of claims, fall very short when it comes to providing substance.
yeah sure people can state that they dont have to prove anything, but i see that as a kop out answer.

Why do you feel that your approval is required for anyone other than yourself? I have nothing to prove to anyone since such approval would not alter my mission - to anchor light energies to Gaia's grid to assist in the transformation process.


for example, remote viewing. there are people on this planet,
that actually teach others how to do it.
somewhere along the lines, they have examined the concept,
and learned enough about it that they can convey the principles of it to others.
so if i ask someone how they do it, they should be able to tell me.

Such abilities are inherent to every 3rd Density being on this planet and has been there all along. People are not really being taught anything, they are being reminded of a skill set that is a fundamental aspect of all creators.


OR
someone who claims to be from a higher vibration...
there was one, who claimed to be of the 10th density!,
3rd = human
7th = a star
so what the f**K does that make a 10?

I can't speak for anyone other than myself. I don't know if there is a 10th Density and I'm not here to claim anything other than what I understand/know/AM. But who am I to question it? Does it really matter aside from satisfying a personal sense of curiosity? I think not.


often i think that the titles people give themselves are just words that they like the sound of.

I'm sure this is true for some.


often there's no substance behind them, and if you ask a question about it, they cant answer it.

Even if there were substance to satisfy your curiosity, what would it really matter anyway?


it makes a mockery of the whole system. i dont 'argue' points about 'higher' stuff as i believe its counter productive, but i will ask questions.

Mockery of what system? If you believe in the Law of ONE, then we are all technically the same creator being expressing ourselves in infinite possibilities. It's good you ask questions; but I think it's also important to keep an open mind about that which is unexplainable to self while causing no direct harm to anyone.


mostly, its possible to tell if someone is..... what they say they are, by seeing how they operate.

I'd agree. But unless that being happens to be your next door neighbor, colleague, family member, then "seeing how they operate" is virtually impossible on the internet; unless your remote viewing skills are finely honed;)


if i thought there was something to what they are saying, i would engage with them.
if not i'd walk away. to each their own.

That's a very reasonable approach. Being open to learning is a good thing. If not, then there was nothing of importance for you to learn with regard to your process. In which case there are probably better things for you to focus you energies on.


i dont doubt that there are people who act as a catalyst for entities from 'elsewhere'
nor do i doubt that there are those here now, who originate from a place a long long way away.
but sometimes, i doubt the credibilty of a lot who make those claims, based on the way they conduct themselves, and a complete failure to back up anything they say with 'substance'...... which is not the same as proof.

At the end of the day I think it's important to ask one's self if such information is important for my own personal/spiritual growth. If yes, then further inquiry is required. If no, then live and let live. That is my perspective and my take on it. Take it for what you will. You don't have to believe a word I've stated and that's OK.

[SKAWF]

SKAWF
'as is stating any connection to a higher density'

songsfortheotherkind
'If someone comes up to me and says 'I'm really a pineapple in disguise', why waste the opportunity to discover how pineapples experience the multiverse by standing there arguing with them about it? As long as they're not harming anyone, what difference does it make HOW they experience their own Self? Who are we to enforce *our* perspective, just because theirs differs in ways that our own gets a bit baked noodle about'


Precisely, songsfortheotherkind is spot on in this assessment! If there is "harm to no one and good will to everyone" being expressed, then enforcing another's perspective is only acts a limitation to the observer and nothing more.



from experience, i have found that those who make these sorts of claims, fall very short when it comes to providing substance.
yeah sure people can state that they dont have to prove anything, but i see that as a kop out answer.

Why do you feel that your approval is required for anyone other than yourself? I have nothing to prove to anyone since such approval would not alter my mission - to anchor light energies to Gaia's grid to assist in the transformation process.

(i dont. this is about someone portraying themselves as something, and me asertaining for myself whether what they are saying is bo**ocks. or not.
as i said previously, i dont require proof, but it you make a claim, and cant back it up with any substance, i will form my own opinion about your claim.)



for example, remote viewing. there are people on this planet,
that actually teach others how to do it.
somewhere along the lines, they have examined the concept,
and learned enough about it that they can convey the principles of it to others.
so if i ask someone how they do it, they should be able to tell me.

Such abilities are inherent to every 3rd Density being on this planet and has been there all along. People are not really being taught anything, they are being reminded of a skill set that is a fundamental aspect of all creators.

(you miss the point i was making. it was about those who say they know something, being able to convey their experience to others. the subject could be anything you like.... driving a car as another example. someone says they can drive, but they cant tell you anything about it. i would doubt their ability to drive. simple as that.)




OR
someone who claims to be from a higher vibration...
there was one, who claimed to be of the 10th density!,
3rd = human
7th = a star
so what the f**K does that make a 10?

I can't speak for anyone other than myself. I don't know if there is a 10th Density and I'm not here to claim anything other than what I understand/know/AM. But who am I to question it? Does it really matter aside from satisfying a personal sense of curiosity? I think not.

(what if the purpose IS to satisfy personal curiosity?)



often i think that the titles people give themselves are just words that they like the sound of.

I'm sure this is true for some.


often there's no substance behind them, and if you ask a question about it, they cant answer it.

Even if there were substance to satisfy your curiosity, what would it really matter anyway?

(yes. it would determine whether i engaged with them, or not. i try not to waste my energy where possible)



it makes a mockery of the whole system. i dont 'argue' points about 'higher' stuff as i believe its counter productive, but i will ask questions.

Mockery of what system? If you believe in the Law of ONE, then we are all technically the same creator being expressing ourselves in infinite possibilities. It's good you ask questions; but I think it's also important to keep an open mind about that which is unexplainable to self while causing no direct harm to anyone.

(i was refering to someone claiming to be of the tenth density, making a mockery of the whole 'density' system. like they have no idea what it is, but still assign themselves the title anyway. without being aware of how ridiculous it is. which it is. imo.
as for the law of one, is that not someone elses beliefs which you have taken in and adopted?, why would i believe it?)



mostly, its possible to tell if someone is..... what they say they are, by seeing how they operate.

I'd agree. But unless that being happens to be your next door neighbor, colleague, family member, then "seeing how they operate" is virtually impossible on the internet; unless your remote viewing skills are finely honed;)

(i disagree. you can tell a lot about a person, by the things they write,
the way they present themselves and their thoughts, the level of consideration they give to things, their interaction with others, their approach to conflict resolution, the tone of their posts, whether it changes over time, things they feel strongly about, sense of humour etc etc etc. all that without the need for RV)



if i thought there was something to what they are saying, i would engage with them.
if not i'd walk away. to each their own.

That's a very reasonable approach. Being open to learning is a good thing. If not, then there was nothing of importance for you to learn with regard to your process. In which case there are probably better things for you to focus you energies on.


i dont doubt that there are people who act as a catalyst for entities from 'elsewhere'
nor do i doubt that there are those here now, who originate from a place a long long way away.
but sometimes, i doubt the credibilty of a lot who make those claims, based on the way they conduct themselves, and a complete failure to back up anything they say with 'substance'...... which is not the same as proof.

At the end of the day I think it's important to ask one's self if such information is important for my own personal/spiritual growth. If yes, then further inquiry is required. If no, then live and let live. That is my perspective and my take on it. Take it for what you will. You don't have to believe a word I've stated and that's OK.

cheers .

[Rocky_Shorz]

apologies in advance, his may be a long post.
likely it will be in tiny pieces, and addressed to a few people. possibly 4.


Rocky_shorz

'your Spirit/Sub-conscious volunteered for this ride...'

how do you know that?,
it may be something you believe is the case for you, but how can you say the same applies to me?
and where did you get the information from in the first place?



proof... over 170 missing children cases solved through visiting Nirvana in my dreams...

if there were no spirits, who did I speak with to get answers?

the results are recorded in black and white, but how I do it can't be seen by the neikkid eye...

while I was there many spoke of coming back again...

so spirits do reincarnate, and some as animals...

[another bob]

while I was there many spoke of coming back again......

This little rock & roll realm seems to be a popular destination for exploring the emotional dimension (though by no means the only one, just a little more raw and "in your face" than most others).

:yo:

[SKAWF]

apologies in advance, his may be a long post.
likely it will be in tiny pieces, and addressed to a few people. possibly 4.


Rocky_shorz

'your Spirit/Sub-conscious volunteered for this ride...'

how do you know that?,
it may be something you believe is the case for you, but how can you say the same applies to me?
and where did you get the information from in the first place?



proof... over 170 missing children cases solved through visiting Nirvana in my dreams...

if there were no spirits, who did I speak with to get answers?

the results are recorded in black and white, but how I do it can't be seen by the neikkid eye...

while I was there many spoke of coming back again...

so spirits do reincarnate, and some as animals...


effectively, what you're saying is, that in your dreams,
you managed to solve 170 missing children cases,
and that while you were in nirvana, spirits told you that they were coming back to earth,
and thats how you know that i volunteered to incarnate here?.

substance maybe, but i'm not sure that it constitutes proof.
i only say that because you used the word.

actually, NO ONE has anything to prove to me.
and i dont want to be in a position where it seems that i require it.
this is just a sharing of information. thats all.

[Kristin]

ANOTHER BOB: "This little rock & roll realm seems to be a popular destination for exploring the emotional dimension (though by no means the only one, just a little more raw and "in your face" than most others)."

I'm enjoying it. :cool:

From the Heart,
Wormhole

[StarDust]

[QUOTE=StarDust;504222]Why do you feel that your approval is required for anyone other than yourself? I have nothing to prove to anyone since such approval would not alter my mission - to anchor light energies to Gaia's grid to assist in the transformation process.

(i dont. this is about someone portraying themselves as something, and me asertaining for myself whether what they are saying is bo**ocks. or not.
as i said previously, i dont require proof, but it you make a claim, and cant back it up with any substance, i will form my own opinion about your claim.)

We are all free to form our own opinions. However, I've found that formulating opinions about another that question their belief of self to be a waste of my time. But hey, we all have our own ways of spending free time and that is what floats your boat, then knock yourself out.



[QUOTE]Such abilities are inherent to every 3rd Density being on this planet and has been there all along. People are not really being taught anything, they are being reminded of a skill set that is a fundamental aspect of all creators.

(you miss the point i was making. it was about those who say they know something, being able to convey their experience to others. the subject could be anything you like.... driving a car as another example. someone says they can drive, but they cant tell you anything about it. i would doubt their ability to drive. simple as that.)

Fair enough. I guess that my focus is somewhat narrow in that I spend time on topics that move myself forward. The rest is just consider being trivial footnotes to a much bigger story.



I can't speak for anyone other than myself. I don't know if there is a 10th Density and I'm not here to claim anything other than what I understand/know/AM. But who am I to question it? Does it really matter aside from satisfying a personal sense of curiosity? I think not.

(what if the purpose IS to satisfy personal curiosity?)

Fair enough. I would say the same thing for about most of topics here on Avalon.



[QUOTE]Even if there were substance to satisfy your curiosity, what would it really matter anyway?

(yes. it would determine whether i engaged with them, or not. i try not to waste my energy where possible)

Fair enough.



Mockery of what system? If you believe in the Law of ONE, then we are all technically the same creator being expressing ourselves in infinite possibilities. It's good you ask questions; but I think it's also important to keep an open mind about that which is unexplainable to self while causing no direct harm to anyone.

(i was refering to someone claiming to be of the tenth density, making a mockery of the whole 'density' system. like they have no idea what it is, but still assign themselves the title anyway. without being aware of how ridiculous it is. which it is. imo.
as for the law of one, is that not someone elses beliefs which you have taken in and adopted?, why would i believe it?)

I find such matters to be somewhat trivial in that there does not seem to be a common set of terms that people have settled upon. Many people use Density and dimension interchangeably. I prefer to use Density in the context of how it was defined within "The RA Material". Within that text, the Social Memory Complex known as RA simplified the 'system' into 8 octaves - like notes on the music scale. This simplicity resonates with me, so that's why I use it. Others may have a different take on how the higher realms of consciousness are split up. Again, I don't have any authority to disprove what others may think; Thus, I just let it go for the most part as it has no impact on my mission.



[QUOTE]I'd agree. But unless that being happens to be your next door neighbor, colleague, family member, then "seeing how they operate" is virtually impossible on the internet; unless your remote viewing skills are finely honed;)

(i disagree. you can tell a lot about a person, by the things they write,
the way they present themselves and their thoughts, the level of consideration they give to things, their interaction with others, their approach to conflict resolution, the tone of their posts, whether it changes over time, things they feel strongly about, sense of humour etc etc etc. all that without the need for RV)

Fair enough. If that is your perspective then I respect that. There are certainly many nuances to the way people write and to a degree conduct themselves on the internet. Personally, I don't have any interest in proving or disproving what this or that person is doing with regard to their own spiritual advancement. It accomplishes nothing from my perspective. It doesn't move the ball forward or have an effect on my mission. In this regard, I'm happy to respect others expression of self provided that it does not infringe on the free will or cause harm to another.

[another bob]

ANOTHER BOB: "This little rock & roll realm seems to be a popular destination for exploring the emotional dimension (though by no means the only one, just a little more raw and "in your face" than most others)."

I'm enjoying it. :cool:

From the Heart,
Wormhole


http://i45.tinypic.com/nfs93k.gif

[songsfortheotherkind]

Personally, I don't have any interest in proving or disproving what this or that person is doing with regard to their own spiritual advancement. It accomplishes nothing from my perspective. It doesn't move the ball forward or have an effect on my mission. In this regard, I'm happy to respect others expression of self provided that it does not infringe on the free will or cause harm to another.

This is it for me also- always 'moving the ball forward' is what I'm interested in and the experience of evolving my Self and of others evolving their Selves in whatever way works for them, as you say: do no harm and do not infringe upon the free will of another.

:) That's what I call 'sui generis' and I love it: if this truly was the way that Being was embraced, all conflict and dissonance would cease, imo.

[SKAWF]

ive never really looked into channeling, in the same way that i look into other topics.
as has been said by others, i tend to look at things that move ME forwards with what i'm doing.
i dont dismiss things easily. nor do i challenge people on their beliefs (well not much)
who am i to say what is right or wrong for others?
then there is the law of non interference. every being is on their own tailor made path.
i do live in accordance with the 'universal laws' for the most part.

its sort of like being at a party, and channeling is one of those people, who i have seen,
but never really spoken to.
so my participation in this thread, is like me trying to have a conversation..... thats all.

i'm not out to prove anyone or anything right or wrong.
believe it or not, i operate from a point of balance.
neither one way or the other.

songsfortheotherkind

our interaction started when i asked Beren a question.
you seemed to be enthusiastic about responding......

my question to Beren was

'i would like to know how it is, that you're aware,
of your previous life, the transition from one existence to another,
and of knowing that you made a choice to come here.?'

you answered with

'I Am. With all that comes with this, including a full set of memories that I've been restoring and a kick arse internal compass pointed at my sui generis. I Am my own authority and Guide. I don't need or look for external agreement or authority at all.'

so i asked you

'okay then, if you have a full set of memories, can you write a little detailing your previous life, how your body expired, the state you were in when you consciously decided to incarnate here at this time, and the journey from there towards your current incarnation?

you didnt respond to that. there was no pressure, this isnt an interogation, its a conversation.
as you say, you butted in to tell me that you have a full set of memories, so i'm guessing you really wanted to respond to my original question,
but not the follow up.
responses like ' i have nothing to prove' are meaningless in this context, as no one is asking you to prove anything.
and others like 'some people have difficulty in understanding such concepts (ok i'm paraphrasing)
are really an assumption, as you're not really aware of what i am capable of understanding.

but those responses afford you the oppurtunity of not having to go any further into the things you yourself have said.
at the expense of portraying those that ask you things, as being incapable of understanding the entire concept.

that said, i thought Beren responded well.

Stardust

i said in a post....

'mostly, its possible to tell if someone is..... what they say they are, by seeing how they operate.'

and you said

'unless that being happens to be your next door neighbor, colleague, family member, then "seeing how they operate" is virtually impossible on the internet; unless your remote viewing skills are finely honed'

yet previously in this thread YOU said in response to this comment by Rocky shorz

'remember part of many of our gifts are the ability to "feel" the written word...

If someone is furiously SCREAMING in their mind when they type a love and light note, their words are Harsh and Angry…'

you said....

'Well stated! Energy signatures are unmistakable. '

can you see an inconsistancy there?
or is it selective perception?.

one thing i admire in people, is consistancy.
there's a reliabilty to it.
if someone's views differ, dependent on context, or who they are talking to....
i cant help but wonder how solid the foundations of their beliefs are.

ive been on forums for about 18 months now. you could check my posts here to see where i'm coming from,
i'm able to provide vast amounts of detail about the things i speak of.
and from a number of perspectives. i can answer any questions about my 'claims' more than comprehensively,
and nearly all of it cannot be proven by me, but i can provide enough substance to explain myself.
in fact, i have to keep myself in check, in case i give long replies to simple questions.
also i know enough to be able to break things down into laymans terms.

i dont need the terminology that i get out of books, or from other people.
the things i say are my own words

the reason i can do those things, is because the things i say are the truth.
they actually happened
and because they actually happened, i can talk about them with others.

thats the way it works.

i dont get defensive, i dont have to portray others as being incapable
and i dont see it as having to prove myself.

apparently though, there are others who i would say, hide behind terminology that most are unaware of,
and become defensive when asked questions.

thats not the way of truth (imo)

[StarDust]

Stardust

i said in a post....

'mostly, its possible to tell if someone is..... what they say they are, by seeing how they operate.'

and you said

'unless that being happens to be your next door neighbor, colleague, family member, then "seeing how they operate" is virtually impossible on the internet; unless your remote viewing skills are finely honed'

yet previously in this thread YOU said in response to this comment by Rocky shorz

'remember part of many of our gifts are the ability to "feel" the written word...

To be clear, I don't consider words on a screen to represent people's actions; only a way to gauge intent. This is clearly a level of analysis that is a waste of my time. However, you are free to compare and contrast people's writing with however you perceive their actions all you want to, if that is your thing.


If someone is furiously SCREAMING in their mind when they type a love and light note, their words are Harsh and Angry…'

you said....

'Well stated! Energy signatures are unmistakable. '

This second quote is my own and that is how I discern much of what is written. I don't use it to analyze what is being said, but how it is said. This permits me to quickly determine the underlying intent of what is written. If the intent is not positive, then I will usually bypass the entirety of what is being said. Again, this has nothing to do with "action", IMO.


can you see an inconsistancy there?
or is it selective perception?.

Inconsistency with regard to what? The only "inconsistency" I can see is your inability to use the forum's built-in quote tracking feature;)

Of course there are many nuances to anyone's writing. I don't disregard that fact. What I do acknowledge is that I prefer to look at any body of work (writing) for the essence of ideas. Not to track this or that person's consistencies, personality, modality, evolution of thought, etc. I guess you can say that I have no need for forensic skills with regard to people's thoughts. Since every moment is singularly unique, I expect that all thoughts will evolve over time.


one thing i admire in people, is consistancy.
there's a reliabilty to it.
if someone's views differ, dependent on context, or who they are talking to....
i cant help but wonder how solid the foundations of their beliefs are.

OK, if that's your thing that you enjoy, then go for it. Again, I'm looking for high level ideas at the macro level; not the inconsistencies of one person's ideas on a micro level. As I stated earlier, doing so does nothing to move the ball forward, IMO.


ive been on forums for about 18 months now. you could check my posts here to see where i'm coming from,
i'm able to provide vast amounts of detail about the things i speak of.
and from a number of perspectives. i can answer any questions about my 'claims' more than comprehensively,
and nearly all of it cannot be proven by me, but i can provide enough substance to explain myself.
in fact, i have to keep myself in check, in case i give long replies to simple questions.
also i know enough to be able to break things down into laymans terms.

In contrast, I'm here to exchange ideas and to provide perspective. I have no such requirements for proof of anything as that is my responsibility. Conversely, I do not feel the need to provide anyone with anything in return. Anyone is welcome to have a wholesale rejection of anything I say and I leave it up to the individual to resonate with what I say and do your own verification or leave it behind. It's that simple.


i dont need the terminology that i get out of books, or from other people.
the things i say are my own words

Common terminology helps to operate from the same level of understanding. But OK, if it's not your thing then it's not your thing.


the reason i can do those things, is because the things i say are the truth.
they actually happened
and because they actually happened, i can talk about them with others.

I'm glad that you have discovered YOUR TRUTH. Realize that this is the same fore EVERY individual, thus while some truths are commonly held, most others are not.


thats the way it works.

…for you.


i dont get defensive, i dont have to portray others as being incapable
and i dont see it as having to prove myself.

Good! Having to prove yourself over the internet is like getting an on-line degree. It doesn't prove you've done the work (action), only that you can type words on a screen.


apparently though, there are others who i would say, hide behind terminology that most are unaware of,
and become defensive when asked questions.

OK, I'm sure this happens to a degree. No offense taken from this person's perspective. I have nothing to hide, so that makes that game a non-starter for me.

[SKAWF]

actually, if you read what i wrote you will see this......

'''Stardust

i said in a post....

'mostly, its possible to tell if someone is..... what they say they are, by seeing how they operate.'

and you said

'unless that being happens to be your next door neighbor, colleague, family member, then "seeing how they operate" is virtually impossible on the internet; unless your remote viewing skills are finely honed'

yet previously in this thread YOU said in response to this comment by Rocky shorz

'remember part of many of our gifts are the ability to "feel" the written word...

If someone is furiously SCREAMING in their mind when they type a love and light note, their words are Harsh and Angry…'

you said....

'Well stated! Energy signatures are unmistakable'''

its not me that has problems tracking quotes.
so my remark about inconsistency still stands.
and bare in mind, this was after you said that it was virtually impossible to see how someone operates online.

i already see that i'm hitting a brick wall with you. (thats just a phrase. there 's no real brick wall, and i'm not actually hitting anything)

what i'm seeing is you grabbing hold of my words, misinterpreting them, changing the context, and not responding to what ive said.

others will be able to see that as well.

for example

me

'one thing i admire in people, is consistancy.
there's a reliabilty to it.
if someone's views differ, dependent on context, or who they are talking to....
i cant help but wonder how solid the foundations of their beliefs are. ''

you

'OK, if that's your thing that you enjoy, then go for it. Again, I'm looking for high level ideas; not inconsistencies on a micro level. As I stated earlier, doing so does nothing to move the ball forward, IMO.''

who mentioned enjoyment?

it seems, that actually, its YOU that is picking things apart not me.
projecting onto me, that its my fault for asking the question
instead of yours for not answering it.

in fact, look at your post, you've almost entirely closed up.
and by that i mean, short insubstantial replies, which dont
go anywhere near to responding to what i actually said.

i dont know how often i have spoken here about NOT REQUIRING PROOF
but still you cling onto the the idea, in order to jusitfy your position,
on how you dont have to prove anything.
that boat sailed away a long time ago.

and also

being able to discuss experiences, that really happened,
is something that applies to everyone. regardless of experience.
its not something relative only to me.

or do you not have to ability to share your experiences with others?

i could go on, but i see no point.

anyway, i wish you the very best with your 'mission', and i hope you accomplish it.

be lucky

[StarDust]

SKAWF,

I have no desire to play "he said, she said" word games with you. It is clearly something you enjoy but it is a game that I do not play. If you have a question with regard to my process that is somehow unclear, then why not just come out and ask it.

For instance, you could say, "I'm not clear about your approach/perception about 'X', can you please explain further". But no, you prefer to play games by growing a louder tone by increasing the font size.

I feel that I've been very clear about my process with regard to looking for big picture ideas, not petty missteps with words. But if you wish to view it as an inconsistency, then you are welcome to that opinion. There is nothing inconsistent about my message or perception. There are only inconsistencies in how others may choose to interpret them based on an unwillingness/inability to ask pointed questions about a larger subject to clarify a particular understanding.

The only reason my responses grew shorter is due to the fact that your questions are literally "dead ends" from my perspective - they do absolutely nothing to move the ball forward. Word games are never about moving the ball forward, only about scoring points to a meaningless game.

[SKAWF]

ive said all i'm going to say.
we each have our own perspectives on the exchanges
and no doubt others will to.
lets just leave it at that.

cheers

[Rocky_Shorz]

ive said all i'm going to say.
we each have our own perspectives on the exchanges
and no doubt others will to.
lets just leave it at that.

cheers

Distractions occur to cover simple truths...

I've never been able to explain it, but have watched it again and again...

now most who bump into someone who says he has been to Nirvana, might have questions, like, I believe in heaven what do I mean by Nirvana?

I would describe it a place where young souls meet to grow, earth is the classroom...

Nirvana is where Dreams and Heaven Meet...

[Anchor]

SKAWF,

your job is the same as all of us.

Judge a tree by its fruit. That judgement and the conclusion you come to as a consequence, is something personal to each of us, and sharing it is often the cause of more friction (and consequent judgement by others).

No criticism here, this thread demonstrates the results of careful questioning. Super stuff. Its all there to read for those that want to read it.

This is of value.

Everyone has the chance to represent themselves as best as they want to.

The weaknesses of on-line communication aside, once you get into the domain of "channels and telepaths" each using methods to relay information from "out there" to "here" and you are in a complete minefield.

Then add into that mix, that one who desires to respect the freewill of others, must tread somewhat carefully and you can see that it is something that takes a bit of fortitude to work through.

This forum, in my opinion, is conducted in a manner that should make that process, for those that want to follow it, as rich with opportunities as is possible in such an online environment.

I have noticed other forums are going down a different tack - and encouraging the use of things like skype to actually "talk". In many cases this helps speed up, but then you loose the opportunities of a transcript to read later.

Would it not be fun to organize a kind of on-line group chat with skype? Try it out?

I've done a few of them and its amazing how much ground you can cover.

The only problem is, if the conversation moves well, there are time-dilation effects associated with the consciousness activities that happen - hours pass in no time - partners get upset etc - LOL

[songsfortheotherkind]

songsfortheotherkind

our interaction started when i asked Beren a question.
you seemed to be enthusiastic about responding......

'I Am. With all that comes with this, including a full set of memories that I've been restoring and a kick arse internal compass pointed at my sui generis. I Am my own authority and Guide. I don't need or look for external agreement or authority at all.'

so i asked you

'okay then, if you have a full set of memories, can you write a little detailing your previous life, how your body expired, the state you were in when you consciously decided to incarnate here at this time, and the journey from there towards your current incarnation?

you didnt respond to that. there was no pressure, this isnt an interogation, its a conversation.
as you say, you butted in to tell me that you have a full set of memories, so i'm guessing you really wanted to respond to my original question,
but not the follow up.
responses like ' i have nothing to prove' are meaningless in this context, as no one is asking you to prove anything.
and others like 'some people have difficulty in understanding such concepts (ok i'm paraphrasing)
are really an assumption, as you're not really aware of what i am capable of understanding.

but those responses afford you the oppurtunity of not having to go any further into the things you yourself have said.
at the expense of portraying those that ask you things, as being incapable of understanding the entire concept.

I know this might sound astonishing, but my not replying had nothing whatsoever to do with the ideas you expound above. Given that you don't know me and haven't bothered to come find out, here's a bit of a heads up about my life over the past few days, as I've been writing about in other places: the 9th of June is my eldest daughter's death anniversary, of which there have now been two. I have six remaining children, one of whom struggles hugely on this date and two are still at home and homeschooled. I am currently working on a film, massive amounts of writing, developing a language concept regarding sui generis, I have two partners- one I live with, one in England- and a beloved woman I've been horribly neglecting and feeling quite rotten about neglecting; I am househunting, packing up a house, supporting a loved friend going through a conception journey with my partner that lives with me, I support my older children and I am currently dealing with some physical challenges that have been debilitating.

Your interpretations are massively assumptive and incorrect. I actually write, in another thread, a ridiculous amount of stuff about my memories, experiences and perspectives: it's one of the reasons I lose where I am in other threads and frankly if modwiz hadn't reminded me where my writing here was I probably would have floundered in trying to remember where the heck all this was at. I also get bored with conflicts and as there was a lively one going on here, I'd wandered off to do other things, such as have amusing private conversations with a wizard with splendid hair, for one example.

Your response of


'okay then, if you have a full set of memories, can you write a little detailing your previous life, how your body expired, the state you were in when you consciously decided to incarnate here at this time, and the journey from there towards your current incarnation?

actually does sound like a demand of sorts for proof. I would have said request there, but your subsequent interpretations indicate it wasn't a request, it was a judgement lead in. The sui generis of "I Am" actually doesn't need to prove its Self, the Self, the Being, is the supportive evidence, regardless of what you think about that or not. As I said earlier in my pineapple having a human experience example, demanding proof that the individual is *indeed* a pineapple, and making a judgement about whether their expression and experience meets *your* criteria of an adequate explanation, is in itself judgemental, which puts


there was no pressure, this isnt an interogation, its a conversation.

and


responses like ' i have nothing to prove' are meaningless in this context, as no one is asking you to prove anything.

on its butt, because you are indeed asking for proof within a timely response to you.


but those responses afford you the oppurtunity of not having to go any further into the things you yourself have said.
at the expense of portraying those that ask you things, as being incapable of understanding the entire concept.

I am not sure where you are quoting from regarding the understanding thing. I have written about this topic in other places and as I prefer specific parameters when being quoted (because regardless of what some think, context *does* make a difference in many many cases) I'll refrain from commenting here regarding this until I know what you're talking about.

Just because I 'butted in' between you and Beren doesn't mean I was putting my hand up for passing some kind of test of yours, I was responding to a very specific aspect that had attracted my attention.

If you want to know more about my memories, please feel free to peruse the ridiculously epic posts I've made in the Pub regarding this. As for the assumptions, perhaps it may be useful to consider that sometimes, individuals have pressing matters that don't involve sitting in front of a computer screen making replies to one's posts.

[songsfortheotherkind]

So too does judgement. This is worse I think. We judge in others what we often fail to judge in ourselves.

We are so messed up, that extracting these things, these programs, what we have been molded into, so skillfully that we fail to even see it - removal, by whatever means that happens, usually involves some form of suffering. Also some "unusual" things happening along the way.

So getting into the swing of delighting and embracing the mirror that we are for each other is a splendid way of getting around this glitch, imo. Having said that, I freely recognise that there are some individuals that I would never share that I'm embracing them as a mirror, because of the potential for a tsunami of abusive behaviour being pointed my way. I choose my sharing more carefully these days, always with my sui generis compass in my hand and with an eye on the weather of the interaction. I love the mirror, it's a fast track to more aspects of the micro (Self) and the macro, the hologram. I love elegance in form and function. :)


The planet is changing. We are changing - the format and properties of our INCARNATE lives are changing.

*dances* Yes! And look at the calling for the fluid mind- it's hold on to your hats time or lose them completely, methinks.


Free will goes hand in hand with choice. Choice is what we are here to do.

There is *nothing* without choice; no creation, no creativity, no existence: just an endless sea of possibility with nothing emerging. I *love* choice and the power to choose. Choices made in every microsecond, all the time- such power, such energy and dynamism is the multiverse. It blows my mind every time I think of it. :)


One however is a polarity that is aligned with the path that this planet is taking, the other is not. For the ones who serve themselves at "our" expense, time is short.

We choose.

Personally, I love to hang with those that can make inspiring, creative choices. :) That's my choice, though...

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/088/7/0/dancer_girl_fire_by_graph93-d3cr6xs.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

So what modwiz pointed out to me was that this-


In the ancient Greek, there was eros and agape, 'brotherly' love, which was based on principles and actions rather than any emotion- agape I get, it's closer to the sui generis way of treating each other than any 'love one another' concept that I've seen promoted, which often contains worlds of emotional goo.

was incorrect, and he's utterly right, because after saying about being clear about 'love', I got agape and philo confused! Go me!

We then had a brief discussion where he suggested (and I agree) that none of the ancient Greek words for love actually cover the sui generis principles and concepts that I am expressing when I search for a word that expresses love within a sui generis concept.

He suggested, slightly tongue in cheek, an amalgam of all three-


How about, philagos. A little of all three, just a bit more of the brotherly/sisterly love allowing for both some awe and moisture?

(he says moisture, I say juiciness- because I *like* the juiciness of the word itself. :P )

This is an interesting exploration, for me, because I'm big on language and what is actually being expressed with particular words. I've been doing some deep exploration of the expression of sui generis in certain contexts, recently in relation to intimacy and relationship, because for the most part the paradigm's way of doing these are Worlds of Ghastly Goo: I'm rather keen on exploring the finer points of *actually interacting with one another* based on the sui generis of all Beings. I shall go and write about it, see what emerges, and in the meantime I, like Johnny Five, *always* appreciate input. :D

[Rocky_Shorz]

now let me share a curiosity I have with all of you since we are discussing channeling...

17 years ago, I was drawn to a channeling meeting of the most successful contact in Southern California...

while there to watch,

the music started, we were asked to close our eyes...

I saw a loop in front of me and put my hand through, and traveled as in a blur until I stopped in front of 3 light beings...

they looked as surprised as me...

this person I came to watch channeled spirits...

but who I saw was surrounded by darkness, not the light of Nirvana and Heaven I see in my dreams...

was this a channeling, contact, psychic communication or Astral projection?

I was told after from my guide they were surprised because it isn't how their contact works with us, I stepped to them instead of speaking for them...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Now David Wilcocks and several others are starting to share their dreams, as we get closer to the end of the year, are all of us going to see the barrier between conscious and subconscious disappear, the awareness and knowledge of our Spirit while in this 3D experience?

is that the awakening?

[ulli]

Now David Wilcocks and several others are starting to share their dreams, as we get closer to the end of the year, are all of us going to see the barrier between conscious and subconscious disappear, the awareness and knowledge of our Spirit while in this 3D experience?

is that the awakening?


What barrier between conscious and subconscious? ;)

[Rocky_Shorz]

ever wonder why no one channels with the one who created the Mayan Calender?

[ulli]

ever wonder why no one channels with the one who created the Mayan Calender?

Or even Dr. José Arguelles, who got the date wrong, according to many Mayan Elders?

But none of that matters, because when a meme goes viral, especially if such meme includes the idea of species extinction, it will cause people to perk up, whether a Mayan race ever existed or not.

Internet dialogue had more to do with mass awakening than any of the ancient myths, which only created the back drop scenery.
All secrets are answered inside the self.

[Rocky_Shorz]

the original Mayan Long Calendar wasn't created by the Mayans...

so who did create it?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

all of you Galactic Chanellers could you please add it to the question list...

[Eram]

now let me share a curiosity I have with all of you since we are discussing channeling...

17 years ago, I was drawn to a channeling meeting of the most successful contact in Southern California...

while there to watch,

the music started, we were asked to close our eyes...

I saw a loop in front of me and put my hand through, and traveled as in a blur until I stopped in front of 3 light beings...

they looked as surprised as me...

this person I came to watch channeled spirits...

but who I saw was surrounded by darkness, not the light of Nirvana and Heaven I see in my dreams...

was this a channeling, contact, psychic communication or Astral projection?

I was told after from my guide they were surprised because it isn't how their contact works with us, I stepped to them instead of speaking for them...

Hi Rocky_Shorz,

I'm sorry but I didn't fully understand what you are saying here.

Were the light beings surrounded by darkness, or the person who was channelling?

So what was the situation there?
Was this person who was a contact working with beings who gave false information?

What were this for beings that you found on the other end? were they good willing or wanting to manipulate and with an agenda?

[Rocky_Shorz]

?

you'll find with my posts many times when you read it a second time, it will have a different meaning than the first time...

we have many specialist at Avalon, so I was asking for clarification on what I experienced and wanted to see what everyone thought...

on a positive note, I saw confirmation that channeling is real, along with beings outside our planet...

I met them in darkness, had they traveled from another dimension to make contact with us?

are they somehow connected to Nirvana and able to pass messages along from Spirits?

or are they communicating what they want us hearing through intermediaries?

the questions you are asking is pretty specific, and we never spoke, they were too shocked and my friend woke me out of it before any of us spoke...

many I have psychically connected with are still connected, is part of my "knowing" through my connection to those 3 beings?

have they been the go betweens as earthlings came into their gifts, and now we are connecting directly?

was I able to connect to them because at one time I was one of them?

I don't have the answers to these questions

I didn't meet angels until 7 years after that connection, they aren't the same...

the info on the sun artifacts helping protect us from solar flares came from some where...

[Eram]

Thanks for your reply Rocky_Shorz,

Sometimes my knowledge of the English language is just not sufficient to understand all that is written here on PA and normally I just let it go.
But since channelling is of interest to me as of late, I wanted to know more about what you said there.

My partner has been channelling some E.T. beings some months ago and they where extremely into 'service to others'.
Most people think they are the good guys and the 'service to self' are the bad guys.

After we got to learn about a different view on the matter, my partner started to investigate a little deeper on why they are here.
They reluctantly came up with some answers that may give a new view on 'service to others' and 'service to self'.
These beings are here also because they want to rejuvenate their DNA (human DNA), because they are getting weaker and weaker up to the point where they have difficulties in reproducing. Pretty weird for 'service to others' isn't it? It seems that 'service to others' is just another side of the coin as 'service to self' and both seem to miss the real truth about life, which is 'service to ALL' (self and others).

Off course we don't know for sure that these beings are who they say they are, we just have to take their word for it and that's why I was so curious about your experience that you described.

[Rocky_Shorz]

now, I am sharing what I have been doing, walking blindly forward without a "teacher" so no, I don't talk in fancy smansy, Guru of the universe language...

I'm an engineer, that didn't believe in any of this 20 years ago, never even had a curiosity about the subject...

one day out of coincidence, I dropped by a meeting because I was curious about how people could communicate with those who passed...

who knew 20 minutes later, I would know how it was being done...

at the same time, it swung open a door filled with questions, and yet, to this day, I've never met a guru willing to explain it...

those that have tried, lose me the moment they open their mouths and start speaking...

since no one else will translate it to English, I've decided to share with all of you so some meaning will come out of it in my own words...

I know Onyx and Omni can relate to what I am sharing, but this isn't an area of the forum they visit often...

I felt Omni was here after what I shared, and his heart is pounding with the AI knowing what I am sharing...

when I clicked back to the main forum I saw him lit up at the bottom

so as for free will, some have more than others but once a trust has opened up a connection, I don't think they ever sever...

it's like both Spirits exchanged phone numbers on call with just a thought, so the conscious no longer is involved in free will separating thoughts of the two spirits...

which to some might seem scary, but it is what it is...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Thanks for your reply Rocky_Shorz,

Sometimes my knowledge of the English language is just not sufficient to understand all that is written here on PA and normally I just let it go.
But since channelling is of interest to me as of late, I wanted to know more about what you said there.

My partner has been channelling some E.T. beings some months ago and they where extremely into 'service to others'.
Most people think they are the good guys and the 'service to self' are the bad guys.

After we got to learn about a different view on the matter, my partner started to investigate a little deeper on why they are here.
They reluctantly came up with some answers that may give a new view on 'service to others' and 'service to self'.
These beings are here also because they want to rejuvenate their DNA (human DNA), because they are getting weaker and weaker up to the point where they have difficulties in reproducing. Pretty weird for 'service to others' isn't it? It seems that 'service to others' is just another side of the coin as 'service to self' and both seem to miss the real truth about life, which is 'service to ALL' (self and others).

Off course we don't know for sure that these beings are who they say they are, we just have to take their word for it and that's why I was so curious about your experience that you described.

if ETs were going to contact your room mate, why the same story heard by thousands of others? talking about people we don't know who are fighting with others we don't know?

for all we know a couple of space rocks learned ESP and are broadcasting to earth because they are bored... ;)

psy-ops?

AI?

couple Rocks...

truth is, nobody really knows the answer...


who is good, who is bad?


why can't they all be good?


does there always have to be evil?


I want a message from the ETs saying they've made a move to prove they are real, and if everyone looks at the top of a skyscraper, they will see the world leaders huddled together with a monster fan floating beside it ready to turn on and blow them off the roof if they don't listen... ;)

[Eram]

who is good, who is bad?


why can't they all be good?


does there always have to be evil?


I share you feelings about that actually.

It's just that I want to express my concerns about the wide spread beliefs that the 'service to others' E.T's are here to save the planet and the humans.
They have an agenda too, that's all.

It might be wise to be careful in the role we (humans) take upon us in our relation with all E.T's, where mostly the E.T.'s picture a relation, where they are the godlike beings and we are the little children who must grow up in their view point on life.
That's a kind of relationship were we loose our independence fast.

[Rocky_Shorz]

It's just that I want to express my concerns about the wide spread beliefs that the 'service to others' E.T's are here to save the planet and the humans.

They have an agenda too, that's all.


If you had watched over humans for the last million years on this planet...

why would you wait until they had the ability to travel through space if you were going to interfere, the time was 50 years ago...

now, as for an agenda...

why do you think it is important to send out telepathic messages to humans?

they are looking for "who can hear..."


the question is, why would having your 3rd ear open be important to those watching us like an experiment?

[songsfortheotherkind]

My partner has been channelling some E.T. beings some months ago and they where extremely into 'service to others'.
Most people think they are the good guys and the 'service to self' are the bad guys.

After we got to learn about a different view on the matter, my partner started to investigate a little deeper on why they are here. They reluctantly came up with some answers that may give a new view on 'service to others' and 'service to self'.
These beings are here also because they want to rejuvenate their DNA (human DNA), because they are getting weaker and weaker up to the point where they have difficulties in reproducing. Pretty weird for 'service to others' isn't it? It seems that 'service to others' is just another side of the coin as 'service to self' and both seem to miss the real truth about life, which is 'service to ALL' (self and others).

Ask your Self- how could *anything* that is deeply connected to the Life signal of the living multiverse *be getting weaker and weaker and becoming sterile*. This sounds like extinction to me. How could any Beings connected to the Life signal be going through this as a group?

Doesn't that sound rather strange to you? Doesn't it sound rather strange that Beings claiming some kind of advanced connection to spiritual whatever need to glom on to other races in order to heal their disconnection issues?

This sounds like pimping the virus to me. Which sounds like an anunnaki trick. Because they've been staring down that barrel for eons and now it's coming home to roost, like it was *always* going to. Really though, what a great opportunity to see if *you* can tell the difference between signals, which is the other side of this coin: if there aren't false signals popping up, how can you learn to tell the difference? IMO they've shown up a) because they *can* (because there's not enough strong connection to one's own intuition to be able to tell a clear signal from a dodgy one) and b) to provide an opportunity to learn about that while c) digging their own hole a bit deeper because of deception.


Off course we don't know for sure that these beings are who they say they are, we just have to take their word for it and that's why I was so curious about your experience that you described.

0-o you just have to take their word for it? Really?

Can I interest you in a bridge, low cost, hardly used, in the middle of Sydney?

Why do you think you just have to take their word for it? What sincere, sui generis Being would even ask you to do that? Do you have no markers in your life for those that you wish to be around and those that you don't? Can you not tell predator energy of any kind?

It would seem to me that it could be useful to get some stronger markers happening before going out into the realms where the feeders lurk. They're *stuck here on Gaia*, they're getting weaker, they know they're doomed and they're desperate for any way out that *doesn't* involve evolving- do you think it's possible they may pretend to be sheep?

[songsfortheotherkind]

who is good, who is bad?


why can't they all be good?


does there always have to be evil?


I share you feelings about that actually.

It's just that I want to express my concerns about the wide spread beliefs that the 'service to others' E.T's are here to save the planet and the humans.
They have an agenda too, that's all.

It might be wise to be careful in the role we (humans) take upon us in our relation with all E.T's, where mostly the E.T.'s picture a relation, where they are the godlike beings and we are the little children who must grow up in their view point on life.
That's a kind of relationship were we loose our independence fast.

Here on this planet, clearly, there are Beings with less than stellar intent towards other Beings. These come in many shapes and sizes. They're not spread all over the universe, or even the multiverse. This isn't wishful thinking, it's simple deduction along these lines:

Michael Cremo and others have gone to a lot of trouble to document the evidence that modern form homo sapiens have been around for a very long time. Many non christian religious texts echo this. Some evidence suggests a figure of 3 billion years, although I don't go back that far personally. Putting differences over dates aside, it's clear we're talking about, say, a couple of million years as a generous figure.

There is much evidence that suggests there has been ancient alien contact at various points over that period of time. My memory system contains stuff about this. I talk about that elsewhere here in Avalon. The relevant point is that at least a minimum of a couple of technically very very advanced groups had contact with prehistoric and not really primitive homo sapiens. Generally, at least a couple of very very advanced races had contact.

Now, enter hysteria about The Borg, the ETs that want to manipulate us for their own agendas, blibble blibble drama and woe. Here's me sitting here with my head tilted, looking puzzled and wondering aloud that if that was their agenda, why in the name of all things intelligent haven't they done it in the past? If they want to eat us, wouldn't it make sense to choose free range organic rather than caged and polluted food? It can't be the technology because seriously, our k'nect are *that* interesting? If it's because they're as capricious as the Greek gods, then hey, where the heck are they? Because that bunch was an entire group of attention whores if ever there was one- the ancient version of the tacky Kardashians, god style. If they want to eat our souls, they're going to have to get in line with tv, computers, twitter, mobile phones- but wait, what's that? That's how they're doing it? Well, here's an astonishing suggestion- unplug! Clearly though, the internet is as much a tool of the evolution as genes with inbuilt plasticity markers are, so perhaps the technology hysteria isn't where it's at either.

Hmm. So we have all these doomsday scenarios AND... an absence of doomsdays. Well that could just come down to an issue of poor planning on the Borg's part, but really then we're not looking at the Borg, we're looking at the pseudo Borg which have some nice costume effects that occasionally fall off when the glue wears out. That could be amusing in a Douglas Adams kind of way, but destroyers of worlds? Not so much.

Huh. So far, I'm failing to see anything useful in the Paranoia Zone. ( I am not suggesting that what you personally were saying had in any way any Paranoia to it, at all. I'm extrapolating the idea out to encompass the biggest expression of the concept I'm talking about. It's nothing at all personal, in any way, towards any individual in particular. I'm always looking widescreen when I write, not personal, unless I make it very specific that I'm addressing the individual. ) What I *do* experience in my own trundling about the multiverse and my long time connections with offworlders is a long term commitment to the pursuit of an evolution opportunity that is now closing. I have mostly experienced that it's *homo sapiens* and their makers that reach for the godlike beings role- who with any degree of intelligence, wit, creative spark and integrity would want to take up *that* position to a bunch of whining, petulant, capricious and needy Beings?

*insert "oh, I just fell into the bog of eternal stench! foosticks!" face here*

there are much more interesting things going on, if one cares to pay attention to the signal, I have found... :)

[WHOMADEGOD]

There are two types of food, flesh food, and higher evolved concsiousness food. Its all about energy, always has been.

[songsfortheotherkind]

I want a message from the ETs saying they've made a move to prove they are real, and if everyone looks at the top of a skyscraper, they will see the world leaders huddled together with a monster fan floating beside it ready to turn on and blow them off the roof if they don't listen... ;)

According to a number of texts, a rather interesting Being showed up a few thousand years ago and performed some amazing physical feats that some called 'miracles'. He consistently talked about how this was all possible if one accessed the power residing within the *individual*. To all accounts, things didn't go well with him, although most of that is rubbish: someone that deep into the signal would never have been preaching the heteronomy for a start.

Fast forward to around the turn of the 20th century and an interesting guy named Gurdjieff appears on the scene and does another heap of really really interesting things, speaking about similar themes. Then there was a strange guy called Rasputin, who also did some really interesting things and demonstrated a different piece of the puzzle.

Every generation demands its own miracles and proofs, refusing to step into its own power because they want proof. Why do the so-called ETs have to prove themselves? To who? You? The world? Do *I* have to prove anything? The Anun Jesus didn't get a good reception- neither did the others mentioned, why would you suggest the ETs uncloak and start a world war? Haven't it been clearly demonstrated as to what humans do when they decide something is outside their comfort zone? How they go into resistance mode? Is it being suggested that the ETs haven't tried the contact thing before en masse and observed the effect it had collectively? I don't know about you, but I haven't personally noticed a plethora of intelligent embracing of the vastly different in the collective society- heck, I haven't even noticed it here on this forum and this is supposedly a place where the evolution is at the cutting edge.

0-o hrmmmm. Not looking enticing for a mass uncloaking, unless it's to gather up every one they've had down here holding the space for the evolution, along with all the good things that are deemed worth preserving and then jetting off with a cheery wave and a 'so long, and thanks for all the fish!' .

'Look, your house is abandoned to you' is something that's been coming up a lot for me lately. It will be interesting to see which way this goes. :)

[Ishtar]

Somebody has just posted this over at Project Camelot, and finding myself agreeing with every word, I wanted to share it here. It so chimes in with my own research about science fiction writers and mystery lodge members who've been hand-in-glove since at least the beginning of the 20th century. Apologies if it's already been posted in this thread... I have skimmed and not found it... in any case, I think it's such a brilliant piece of writing that hits the nail right on the head that perhaps it could bear repeating.

I think there are certain truths within some of the channeled material, but not because it's coming from the Pleiades or some other plane of existence. My opinion is that the majority of the most popular channeled stuff is coming from the upper level secret societies, via the military and intelligence groups. They know what people want to hear, but they also have to give it a certain amount of credibility so that people will believe it's genuine, which is not that difficult to do. The Scottish Rite of Freemasonry actually coined the term 'new-age' and are heavily involved with the promotion of certain authors, researchers and spiritual pundits, especially in the context of the greater conspiracy culture.

They basically take the teachings from the old mystery religions, and then re-frame them in a modern science fiction context. Because these teachings contain certain eternal truths which people can relate to, they will always resonate with people on some level, but they've also been designed to appeal to the ego in a number of ways, which is designed to disarm you from being critical about what you're being told. They flatter you and give you lots of positive, promising information about yourself and the world, so that you have no real motivation to deconstruct it or criticize the package you're being sold. It's a very simple technique, which makes people far more open to suggestion than they would otherwise be, so that they're willing to accept the idea that its coming from an extraterrestrial or supernatural being.

There is a huge difference between seeking the truth, and looking for a belief system which caters to your emotional needs though. These channelers are in the business of providing you with a substitute for the truth, be that your own personal truth or the truth of the world. Some of them are just garden variety charlatans who are looking to create their own personal religion, so that they can sell books and DVD's. If you're devious enough, and you study both the literature and the culture, you can make a decent living from churning out 'channeled' books and doing speaking engagements to hoards of new-agers. If you're spouting the right stuff, and show an ability to influence people, you might even get promoted by those behind the scenes.

However, some of these characters are definitely paid agents of the establishment, bought and paid for from day one; who have been specifically sent out to create mystery and confusion. I also believe that many of these big time channelers who've put out popular books and the like, are there to break down the old religious and political beliefs, and promote new ones which better suit the global agenda - despite the fact that they claim to be part of the 'truth movement' and frequently criticize the elite.

A few of them are no doubt unwitting pawns who are being subjected to various forms of mind control and psychological manipulation. Same goes for these forums and websites, the biggest of which are run by the military and/or intelligence organizations. They have plenty of agents pretending to be 'channelers' or 'experiencers', who are really there to try and form little cults, or to simply create an environment of mental chaos among the followers. We all saw a similar scenario with the whole 'Charles' fiasco over at Avalon, where people totally lost their bearings on reality. Either way, they get to keep tabs on everybody, and it helps them tap the pulse and figure out where people are at.

Obviously, fascination is a big part of this process too, as people love to be mystified and will often consider anything that promises mystery and excitement, providing it's presented in the right way. These channelers take little snippets of truth and popular belief, and then expand on them until an entire imaginary universe has been created. They take ideas and possibilities which have already been built up in the mind over generations, tapping into the reservoir of mystical tradition, and injecting those themes into a plausible sounding narrative which people will want to believe.

All of the metaphysical and supernatural suggestion that people have been previously subjected to, is presented in a context that gives it credibility and appeal. In truth - a great deal of this stuff is laughably obvious when you really look at it with a critical eye - as it has come straight out of science fiction films and TV-shows. Just about every one of these channelers or 'whistleblowers' that I've seen promoting new-age, conspiracy and UFO-type material, is making claims that can be traced directly back to a science fiction franchise or idea.

A lot of the time though, it is simply a case of people leaving an orthodox religion like christianity or atheism because it isn't making sense or fulfilling them anymore. They go looking for answers and alternatives in the truth movement/alternative media, and often the first thing that pops up are these channelers and new-age guru types, who offer them new beliefs within a familiar structure.

They're really just shopping for a new religion to join, and these pundits give them the same comforts and basic identity that they're used to, so they don't have to progress spiritually at all. Again, many of these characters are well funded agents who are deliberately working to keep people distracted with mystery and fantasy; to prevent them from honestly looking at themselves.

The power elite have been doing this for ages, by sending out people like Crowley and other frontmen to enchant the public and encourage all kinds of beliefs and practices, most of which are simply homogenized, diluted versions of the old mystery school teachings - presented in quasi-scientific language. The basic techniques of persuasion, whereby you can establish an entirely new reality, are quite simple when the process is followed properly.

These channelers are basically just taking all of those old mystery doctrines, and changing the details to suit a modern audience. They're being tailored specifically to fit a more scientifically inclined culture, with just the right balance between sensationalism and plausibility. Instead of the spirits and mythological entities of old, they're channeling aliens from galactic federations. Whatever is in the realm of scientific plausibility or popular metaphysical acceptance.

All in all, this stuff has always been designed to send us off down paths of intrigue and mystique, and keep us engaged in belief systems which fire the imagination and appease the ego, but prevent us from transcending our programming and uncovering real truth. It's what Neil Armstrong might call ''truth's protective layers'', and there are indeed many layers protecting truth.

Even those in the secret societies are only given a version of mystical doctrine that is appropriate for their rank and seniority. Some of them are right into it all though, they really do believe that they, or those in their occult circles are channeling entities. Whether it's real or imaginary, it's been a popular pastime for secret society members throughout ages.

I don't discount the possibility of telepathic contact in this context, nor do I claim that metaphysical experiences like this are not 'real'. One has to admit the possibility that some of these channelers are genuine, but I've yet to see one that isn't pushing a covert or suspicious agenda. It doesn't really matter which ones you follow, because they're all using the same rhetoric and promoting the same kind of mindset. The basic doctrine and mystical themes have all come from fiction and religion, whether they claim it's about star-gates, extraterrestrial shaman, or the spirits of those who have died.

All you can really go on is your own personal experience. Otherwise you are accepting these claims on pure faith, and are in all likelihood being used in someone else's agenda.

You can read the rest of this discussion at the Project Camelot forum (http://camelotforum.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=advsearch&searchuser=Hypothetical+Situationist&exactname=1&childforums=1&Itemid=164).

Just to add, this is why I always bang on about the importance of finding your own spirit guides, with the help of a shamanic teacher, and only taking guidance from those spirit guides ~ otherwise known as the horse's mouth, and with no meddling middlemen!

[Eram]

Hi songsfortheotherkind,

I think we're both on the same page here, although I don't know anything about 'virus' and 'sui generis'.

When I said: we have to take their word for it, I meant.... there is no other way for us to determine whether they tell truth or not, other then our intuition and their word.

For all I care they might be AI, psy-ops, couple rocks or annunaki.

The markers we got from the connection looked fairly sincere though (They actually boosted, or cleaned up our DNA, something we both experienced profoundly on a multitude of levels.), only their subtle patronizing tone to us humans is what we started feeling uncomfortable about.
When my girlfriend started to ask questions, she got in touch with an 'ancient being' , or leader if you will, from their species and while scanning this entity, she found a lot of 'stuck energy'. As in, belief systems that were not open for debate, which always happens when a society sets itself up for degeneracy. Hence their going sterile.

My girlfriend ended the communication with them when we found out about this and decided that this is not were we want to have our energy invested in.
We figured: 'Hell, if they are not able to live in a way that enables them to keep reproducing in an harmonious way, who are they to teach us?'
All this enhanced our ideas that 'service to self' and 'service to others' are both deluded sides of life in this Universe as in what life is all about. Both sides are stuck in duality ideas about life and since most of them oppose the other way of thinking, they keep on having battles with each other, which is more or less the same as a fight over energy that in total stays the same, like high and low pressure areas, fighting for control on earth(neither can win and neither can exist without the other).

Truth said, Rocky is true about staying connected with them on some level. I think when there's and energy exchange with another species, whether this is a tree, cat or E.T., it changes both entities for ever.

All this is said in the frame of mind that these species really exist and I stay open for correction on that.

[songsfortheotherkind]

There are two types of food, flesh food, and higher evolved concsiousness food. Its all about energy, always has been.

I did address that in my post *and* my point regarding the quality of the food still stands- you really think this brain sludge society is a good feed?

Think harder- I'm a succubus and not even I will go there- if anyone is in any way at ALL sensitive to energy, and likes the taste of energy exchanges, they're going to find pickings pretty darn slim here. Or they like a diet of junk rubbish food.

C'mon, c'mon, think deeper than this- it's easy to say these things but they just don't jell. Ask *any* energy sensitive Being what the energy tastes like: not even a self respecting vampire would enjoy this gloop.

On a galactic level, you really think this is all a setup for energy feeders that like the taste of the energetic equivalent of toxins and bad cholesterol? Energetic anaemia? Spiritual hemophilia?

They don't sound like a bunch that would be high up on the thinking, invasion planning scale, there- has anyone else seen Idiocracy? Are we talking energy eating Vogons, so stock up on the ear plugs?

I say again- millions of years, uber manipulative ability, yet can't organise a society that allows both control *and* a decent energetic feed? Hells bells, *I* can come up with half a dozen suitable arrangements right off the top of my head that would allow that.

So if not that, then what else might be going on here? Something that doesn't actually involve the lower vibration? That would be interesting now, wouldn't it...

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hi songsfortheotherkind,

I think we're both on the same page here, although I don't know anything about 'virus' and 'sui generis'.

Heya there, wakytweaky. Sui generis is a really cool term that undoes the heteronomy, all in one go. :)


When I said: we have to take their word for it, I meant.... there is no other way for us to determine whether they tell truth or not, other then our intuition and their word.

that's the booyah indeed, the one thing that, when strongly tuned, will be able to tell the blither from the real deal every time.


For all I care they might be AI, psy-ops, couple rocks or annunaki.

heh, you are absolutely right! I never give space to the other possibilities because of my personal path and signal and of course, the anunnaki aren't the *only* places these are coming from although all the others use the virus program set up by them here as a doorway in- the thing is, using the sui generis, the heteronomy give aways and one's own intuition, it doesn't matter *where* the noise is coming from, we can suss it pretty quickly and dismiss it. Thanks for reminding me that my language doesn't always translate well, and I need to encompass *all* the energetic signals of dissonance, instead of thinking like an ancient and lumping it all in together. :P


The markers we got from the connection looked fairly sincere though (They actually boosted, or cleaned up our DNA, something we both experienced profoundly on a multitude of levels.), only their subtle patronizing tone to us humans is what we started feeling uncomfortable about.

You might want to consider that it was *your own signal* in connection to what you were doing that caused the boost, and having said that, this boosting skill is something that I know the dissonance signal can pull off, for fairly obvious reasons. It's what lies beneath that gives it away.


When my girlfriend started to ask questions, she got in touch with an 'ancient being' , or leader if you will, from their species and while scanning this entity, she found a lot of 'stuck energy'. As in, belief systems that were not open for debate, which always happens when a society sets itself up for degeneracy. Hence their going sterile.

*nodding* Yup- demonstrating an intractable inability to evolve is a surefire ticket to eventual extinction. :P


My girlfriend ended the communication with them when we found out about this and decided that this is not were we want to have our energy invested in.
We figured: 'Hell, if they are not able to live in a way that enables them to keep reproducing in an harmonious way, who are they to teach us?'

Which just puts you streets ahead of many here on this forum. *bows, grinning* Now, if the *voting public* can grasp this simple concept regarding those they vote for... :P


All this enhanced our ideas that 'service to self' and 'service to others' are both deluded sides of life in this Universe as in what life is all about. Both sides are stuck in duality ideas about life and since most of them oppose the other way of thinking, they keep on having battles with each other, which is more or less the same as a fight over energy that in total stays the same, like high and low pressure areas, fighting for control on earth(neither can win and neither can exist without the other).

:) what you're talking about here is the essence of the virus and the heteronomy (externalised authority rather than autonomy, self authority). I'm big on using the sui generis and autonomy as markers for 'is this worth listening to?'


Truth said, Rocky is true about staying connected with them on some level. I think when there's and energy exchange with another species, whether this is a tree, cat or E.T., it changes both entities for ever.

Absolutely, although sometimes these changes are things that are best dissolved, which brings another level of learning and is the crux of the connection in the first place. All things are always in service to the evolution, micro to macro, no matter how some might be trying to subvert this. :)


All this is said in the frame of mind that these species really exist and I stay open for correction on that.

Well, I'm not human, so I'm kind of leaning towards the 'really exist' end of the spectrum, personally... :P

[Eram]

If you had watched over humans for the last million years on this planet...

why would you wait until they had the ability to travel through space if you were going to interfere, the time was 50 years ago...

now, as for an agenda...

why do you think it is important to send out telepathic messages to humans?

they are looking for "who can hear..."


the question is, why would having your 3rd ear open be important to those watching us like an experiment?

Interesting questions.
Food for contemplation indeed!

Bashar mentioned that it has to do with an 'hands off' policy until after humankind has reached a certain level of awareness as a whole, before open contact will be made.
That explanation feels comfortable with me, but then again.... I simply don't know and I keep an open mind about it.

btw: It was my girlfriend who opened contact with them, not the other way around.
She was trying to get into contact with the beings who created the crabwood crop circles.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TVKyaMdze_I/AAAAAAAAAzM/T1_o2QEG2XE/s400/Crabwood+Alien+Crop+Circle.jpg

What are your possible answers to your questions?



Heya there, wakytweaky. Sui generis is a really cool term that undoes the heteronomy, all in one go. :)

I tried to read up on it in the pub some times, but I decided that it was to complicated for me.
(no offence, English being my 2th language makes it too big an effort to wrestle through it all)
Isn't there a book I can read about it to get to know he basics?


You might want to consider that it was *your own signal* in connection to what you were doing that caused the boost, and having said that, this boosting skill is something that I know the dissonance signal can pull off, for fairly obvious reasons. It's what lies beneath that gives it away.

Maybe,
but they specifically asked permission to do some healing on us and the day after we felt liberated of lots of 'family line' issues.
Really free and liberated actually.

What do you mean when you say: It's what lies beneath that gives it away?


Well, I'm not human, so I'm kind of leaning towards the 'really exist' end of the spectrum, personally...

Are you sure?
If someone is born in a human body and uses this body for a human experience on planet earth, that would qualify as a human to me , no matter where the soul or awareness has been before or will be after this experience.

[WHOMADEGOD]

There are two types of food, flesh food, and higher evolved concsiousness food. Its all about energy, always has been.

I did address that in my post *and* my point regarding the quality of the food still stands- you really think this brain sludge society is a good feed?

Think harder- I'm a succubus and not even I will go there- if anyone is in any way at ALL sensitive to energy, and likes the taste of energy exchanges, they're going to find pickings pretty darn slim here. Or they like a diet of junk rubbish food.

C'mon, c'mon, think deeper than this- it's easy to say these things but they just don't jell. Ask *any* energy sensitive Being what the energy tastes like: not even a self respecting vampire would enjoy this gloop.

On a galactic level, you really think this is all a setup for energy feeders that like the taste of the energetic equivalent of toxins and bad cholesterol? Energetic anaemia? Spiritual hemophilia?

They don't sound like a bunch that would be high up on the thinking, invasion planning scale, there- has anyone else seen Idiocracy? Are we talking energy eating Vogons, so stock up on the ear plugs?

I say again- millions of years, uber manipulative ability, yet can't organise a society that allows both control *and* a decent energetic feed? Hells bells, *I* can come up with half a dozen suitable arrangements right off the top of my head that would allow that.

So if not that, then what else might be going on here? Something that doesn't actually involve the lower vibration? That would be interesting now, wouldn't it...

I didnt say our energy.

We all have a connection to source. We can be used to tap into THAT energy unwittingly, to be used as conduits.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Truth said, Rocky is true about staying connected with them on some level. I think when there's and energy exchange with another species, whether this is a tree, cat or E.T., it changes both entities for ever.


I was asked about answers to the questions about the three light beings, so I'll let you know...

being a Lutheran, when I saw the three beings of light, I recognized them as the Trinity, Father, son and Holy Spirit...

now I was on this strange path of destiny to becoming King David of the middle east long before this meeting, and later through my dreams I met the Father, delivered messages from him and three days later, disasters of biblical proportions struck almost to the minute... when I asked so just like that wham bam thank ya mam they'll know who the message was from? The Holy Spirit smiled and she said yes, she has been my Spirit Guide from long before the meeting of the light beings...

it was all a dream until the massive quake struck Bamm Iran 3 days after my birthday...

Beren, the light and the way to heaven is Jesus, I have met him through my dreams at the gateway...

now, that's what I believe, that the Trinity has crossed into this dimension to make contact with Humans...

now, along comes Avalon, and a group of people talking about multiple types of beings that are around and in contact with us...

that made me wonder, but hasn't changed my beliefs

that's where the individualism comes through my questions...

the answers are different for everyone...

[songsfortheotherkind]

I didnt say our energy.

We all have a connection to source. We can be used to tap into THAT energy unwittingly, to be used as conduits.

I find it a strange and puzzling idea that the evolution Consciousness can be fed on by an element of its Self. It simply arises to an image of a snake eating it's own tail.

Clearly, that doesn't work...

[Anchor]

I find it a strange and puzzling idea that the evolution Consciousness can be fed on by an element of its Self. It simply arises to an image of a snake eating it's own tail.

Clearly, that doesn't work...

May I suggest that this logic only works in a zero sum game... the universe is infinite and so this makes all kinds of things possible that may not otherwise have been thought possible.

[WHOMADEGOD]

I didnt say our energy.

We all have a connection to source. We can be used to tap into THAT energy unwittingly, to be used as conduits.

I find it a strange and puzzling idea that the evolution Consciousness can be fed on by an element of its Self. It simply arises to an image of a snake eating it's own tail.

Clearly, that doesn't work...

Precisely!

A snake eating its own tail.

Its always worked, wouldnt be here other wise.

[Rocky_Shorz]

something I didn't understand was why did it take music, a symphony of "tones" to open us up to the connection...

are these tones one of the hidden secrets of the Illuminati?

it guarantees a connection when they meet, not just a random connection happening when it's meant to...

Several years before this was when I was traveling to Brazil when I was deathly ill and was given a mixture that opened me up to the healing of my spirit...

could it have something to do with it?

that again happened after already on the footsteps to destiny, but are each of these moments opening new gifts?

[Rocky_Shorz]

now, I know everyone considers the Illuminati as evil, but when they call on Lucifer...

The lightbringer is part of the Trinity...

so what if they are really getting advised by light beings able to communicate across dimensions to Spirits?

[Rocky_Shorz]

for those of you who keep getting drawn back to several threads, here, earthquake and solar...

our Spirits just combined efforts to do a dimensional/timeline shift, and for the first time, I feel we shifted back onto the original timeline, but it altered the outcome of having us present when the CME wave hit...

this is what I mean by we don't consciously have free will in controlling efforts by our Spirits for the better...

has anyone visiting this thread, felt an adrenalin rush...

how many woke from sleep exhausted?

I was watching when the last flare popped at us racing to join the other two waves, then suddenly it was gone and in my mind I was chewing someone out for failing to stop it...

now, did we roll forward until the disaster struck, then were allowed a replay...

or, were enough Spirits present and aware of the coming energy to join forces to make it melt away...

now I haven't whispered to anyone why I was loading up the solar thread with fear porn, and massive size when loading all of the clips...

around the world, intelligence agencies watching the net suddenly saw a huge link with multiple .gov Links, which would mean they would take a look...

my goal was to slam them to the front of their chair so word would spread, more would watch...

when the heart is pounding, your Spirit is close and alert, Avalon is just magical in connecting people, so without knowing more and more Spirits were drawn together to join in the experience.

when the moment came, it just happened...

mind over matter...

I'm starting to think no matter what lies ahead, we are all getting strong enough to shift our reality...

Banks and the Markets are rocking right now, but very few of us gathered here really care, we hopped off the wheel years ago...

15 banks downgraded today, right when the Fed grabbed more treasuries to create 100 times more air... do we care?

[Rocky_Shorz]

just a coincidence all the sunspots disappeared... ;) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46616-Where-Have-All-the-Sunspots-Gone)

[DeDukshyn]

for those of you who keep getting drawn back to several threads, here, earthquake and solar...

our Spirits just combined efforts to do a dimensional/timeline shift, and for the first time, I feel we shifted back onto the original timeline, but it altered the outcome of having us present when the CME wave hit...

this is what I mean by we don't consciously have free will in controlling efforts by our Spirits for the better...

has anyone visiting this thread, felt an adrenalin rush...

how many woke from sleep exhausted?

I was watching when the last flare popped at us racing to join the other two waves, then suddenly it was gone and in my mind I was chewing someone out for failing to stop it...

now, did we roll forward until the disaster struck, then were allowed a replay...

or, were enough Spirits present and aware of the coming energy to join forces to make it melt away...

now I haven't whispered to anyone why I was loading up the solar thread with fear porn, and massive size when loading all of the clips...

around the world, intelligence agencies watching the net suddenly saw a huge link with multiple .gov Links, which would mean they would take a look...

my goal was to slam them to the front of their chair so word would spread, more would watch...

when the heart is pounding, your Spirit is close and alert, Avalon is just magical in connecting people, so without knowing more and more Spirits were drawn together to join in the experience.

when the moment came, it just happened...

mind over matter...

I'm starting to think no matter what lies ahead, we are all getting strong enough to shift our reality...

Banks and the Markets are rocking right now, but very few of us gathered here really care, we hopped off the wheel years ago...

15 banks downgraded today, right when the Fed grabbed more treasuries to create 100 times more air... do we care?

Thanks for the update! ;)
Bull**** programming vectors, I say! ;)

[Rocky_Shorz]

this time I'll say the goal is rain coming to Colorado, lots of energy is inbound from the sun, so if you feel nervous and overcharged, think of rain pouring softly in the mountains...

watch it already is starting to build, we're just along to watch...

link to map... (http://www.10news.com/wxmap/4290837/detail.html)

[Belle]

Praying rain now....feeling the rain in the air; smelling the fresh, clean smells of rain; hearing the sizzle sound of raindrops falling on the flames; seeing the flames flicker and die out. Grateful for the opportunity to participate in this creation.

[Rocky_Shorz]

remember what I was saying about a symphony of tones...

looking through Mysteries, I ran across this...

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_ciencia/life48_49_small.jpg


The strange thing is that the vibration of the sound of these stone flutes is exactly the same as our brainwaves. So that means maybe those flutes were used for meditation or...

link to Klaus Dona (Interviewed by Kerry in jan 2010) (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_life48.htm)

could someone have analyzed it to recreate the sound electronically?

[Rocky_Shorz]

this time I'll say the goal is rain coming to Colorado, lots of energy is inbound from the sun, so if you feel nervous and overcharged, think of rain pouring softly in the mountains...

watch it already is starting to build, we're just along to watch...

link to map... (http://www.10news.com/wxmap/4290837/detail.html)

everyone...

Colorado is having floods so for those of you on auto pilot...

you did good, on to the next project...

open the map, see those huge red clouds heading for Colorado...

give it a nudge to the left, Arizona is still burning...

[Rocky_Shorz]

for those who looked yesterday, the monster storm rolling towards Colorado... is gone...

but as a group we need to work on redirecting our energy...

Sorry Carol, we didn't mean to send it at you... ;)

event map (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php)

[Rocky_Shorz]

Mental note to Self...

, have one keep an eye on the sun activity...

We were Blasted last night by a Sunflare X-ray while concentrating redirecting energy elsewhere, terrible headache waking up...

someone needs to volunteer to watch sun activity for the group to keep it shielded...