Teachers.

[Tony]

Within our thoughts and concepts is our teacher, but we need a little help to find it. Then, we have to know what to do with it when we do find it! The problem is that if you do find it, that cannot be it! You find it in the non finding. I know this sounds a little Zen-ish, but it's true. The true self can only be realised from the experienced, that there is 'no thing' there to be found. The non finding is Pure Consciousness.

There are four types of teacher. Here we talking of spiritual matters, but it applies to everything.

1. The first teacher is the person who points out the essence of your mind.
2. The second teacher is a lineage scriptorial teacher (person or text or manual to study).
3. The third teacher is the inner teacher.
(the first two reveal the inner teacher, your inner knowledge and wisdom.)
4. The fourth teacher is the symbolic teacher: the whole of this illusory, temporary creation reflects our true essence.

The first becomes your root teacher, who genuinely points out the nature of your mind, and there is no doubt. For which we have deep appreciation and devotion (This is difficult for westerners).

The second is your lineage teacher, this could be a person or text. The detailed manuals.

The third is your inner teacher.
The first two types of teacher enhance and give confidence in realising the inner teacher.
Which is then realised in meditation, or rather non-meditation.


This fourth symbolic teacher. This the play between relative and absolute truths. Everything is seen as the pure land. This is seen in everyday situations, created by our karma.


A genuine teacher will reveal to you what you already know, but were not clear about. They will use the enlightened activities of Pacifying Magnetising, Enriching or Destroying ego's activities. The problem in this new age are teacher that either make you 'feel' good, or actually tell you that you do not need a teacher...? I personally do not believe in predications, but there is one that is proving true.

That was in the Mahabarata, that in the Kali Yuga student will kill their teachers! It is all within you, but as well as self perception, there is self deception. The true teacher is found in our every reaction. A reaction is a movement away from our true Essence. Once noted, with the help of the reaction we return to essence.

But first we have to know Essence. This is the most simplest ordinary state, but we as sentient human beings, always want something more exciting, that's because we are in the Kali Yuga. The Funny thing is...the Kali Yuga is the best time to practice!!!

To deny anyone trying to help is utterly foolish. One is only fearing one's own reactions in one's own mind. It is that very mind that needs to be tamed...by you, no one can do this for you! One last thing, a teacher has to be tested, to see if there is genuine integrity.

Tony

[Tony]

You could be the sort of person who says, “I do not need a teacher.” That is fine!
But that may not be true for others. We have to be intelligent about this, and not make every topic into a personal matter.

In all the subjects I have studied, I needed a teacher, or an instructor to help me refine what I knew.
Otherwise I and others would have ben floundering for years....doing it my way, when it was not satisfying.


Tony

[Fred Steeves]

In all the subjects I have studied, I needed a teacher, or an instructor to help me refine what I knew.
Otherwise I and others would have ben floundering for years....doing it my way, when it was not satisfying.


Isn't Samsara itself the ultimate teacher Tony? I find there's a certain satisfaction in having floundered around here for eons, making every possible mistake, and riding that old horse for all she's worth. Besides, it gives one street cred. And just think of the stories, and the scars that can be shown to those back home. Maybe the more daring ones who are thinking about giving it a whirl, will give some added thought before they slip their coin into this crazy ride.http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

One way or another, we all find our way home. And the ways to do that are as numerous as stars in the galaxy. And here's one to ponder: If indeed there really is no time or space, then what's the hurry? http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

This song is for all those who did it their way, and did it well...

fdqf3o1V5EY


Cheers Mate,
Fred

[Godiam]

We are all TEACHERS, as we are all STUDENTS!!

[Tony]

In all the subjects I have studied, I needed a teacher, or an instructor to help me refine what I knew.
Otherwise I and others would have ben floundering for years....doing it my way, when it was not satisfying.


Isn't Samsara itself the ultimate teacher Tony? I find there's a certain satisfaction in having floundered around here for eons, making every possible mistake, and riding that old horse for all she's worth. Besides, it gives one street cred. And just think of the stories, and the scars that can be shown to those back home. Maybe the more daring ones who are thinking about giving it a whirl, will give some added thought before they slip their coin into this crazy ride.http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

One way or another, we all find our way home. And the ways to do that are as numerous as stars in the galaxy. And here's one to ponder: If indeed there really is no time or space, then what's the hurry? http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

This song is for all those who did it their way, and did it well...

fdqf3o1V5EY


Cheers Mate,
Fred

You are right samsara is a teacher, if you know how to look.
The question is how long do you what to hang about?
Bearing in mind you next incarnation may be 'something' sunning itself on a mushroom, two miles underground, not knowing why on earth it's there, if earth in actuality the planet earth is the one you are on! ...and that's if you are lucky!

[sirdipswitch]

Excellent thread, Pie. Love it. Fred, thanks for the memories. Frank wrote that song about me, and I still think of it often.
Pie, I know full well of that which you speak, for I was never of a means to aquire a personal teacher, and thus it has taken me fourty years to validate that which I knew fourty years ago, and that is ; That I still am, just a student.

love and peace
sirdipswitch

[bodhii71]

Bearing in mind you next incarnation may be 'something' sunning itself on a mushroom, two miles underground, not knowing why on earth it's there, if earth in actuality the planet earth is the one you are on! ...and that's if you are lucky!
What a terrifying concept...
I'd like to consider that as a human goes through the gestation period in the womb, that it mimics many forms into the more "evolved" form of human.
I think it is the same for souls that have incarnated as humans. It makes the whole point of this needless suffering...insufferable, cruel.

[Tony]

Bearing in mind you next incarnation may be 'something' sunning itself on a mushroom, two miles underground, not knowing why on earth it's there, if earth in actuality the planet earth is the one you are on! ...and that's if you are lucky!
What a terrifying concept...
I'd like to consider that as a human goes through the gestation period in the womb, that it mimics many forms into the more "evolved" form of human.
I think it is the same for souls that have incarnated as humans. It makes the whole point of this needless suffering...insufferable, cruel.

From what I have studied, much goes go at the moment of so called death and the seven weeks after. It seems to be quite a busy time. I'll dig out some notes. By the time we enter a womb, or egg or some other smelly place our karma has done it's job.

Our suffering is cause by our believing the projection in the mind to be real.

Will get back,
Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Excellent thread, Pie. Love it. Fred, thanks for the memories. Frank wrote that song about me, and I still think of it often.
Pie, I know full well of that which you speak, for I was never of a means to aquire a personal teacher, and thus it has taken me fourty years to validate that which I knew fourty years ago, and that is ; That I still am, just a student.

love and peace
sirdipswitch

Like everything, we do it our way, until we get stuck in a holding pattern. That's when we need a helping hand, and it can come from anywhere. I reckon we all get listen to, we just have to ask the right questions.

Tony

[Fred Steeves]

In all the subjects I have studied, I needed a teacher, or an instructor to help me refine what I knew.
Otherwise I and others would have ben floundering for years....doing it my way, when it was not satisfying.


Isn't Samsara itself the ultimate teacher Tony? I find there's a certain satisfaction in having floundered around here for eons, making every possible mistake, and riding that old horse for all she's worth. Besides, it gives one street cred. And just think of the stories, and the scars that can be shown to those back home. Maybe the more daring ones who are thinking about giving it a whirl, will give some added thought before they slip their coin into this crazy ride.http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

One way or another, we all find our way home. And the ways to do that are as numerous as stars in the galaxy. And here's one to ponder: If indeed there really is no time or space, then what's the hurry? http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif


You are right samsara is a teacher, if you know how to look.
The question is how long do you what to hang about?
Bearing in mind you next incarnation may be 'something' sunning itself on a mushroom, two miles underground, not knowing why on earth it's there, if earth in actuality the planet earth is the one you are on! ...and that's if you are lucky!

Ah, are you talking about the Buddhist story that says the odds of having a human incarnation, are the same as a small ring floating somewhere in the ocean, and a turtle just blindly happening to surface where it goes right around his neck? I don't buy that one. But hell, even if it's true Tony, does your metaphorical mushroom sound so much different to that of a large swath of humanity? Atleast the mushroom can just kick back and relax in it's ignorance.:cool: Might not be so bad, especially if it's growing out of a cow patty.

Cheers,
Fred

[Tony]

In all the subjects I have studied, I needed a teacher, or an instructor to help me refine what I knew.
Otherwise I and others would have ben floundering for years....doing it my way, when it was not satisfying.


Isn't Samsara itself the ultimate teacher Tony? I find there's a certain satisfaction in having floundered around here for eons, making every possible mistake, and riding that old horse for all she's worth. Besides, it gives one street cred. And just think of the stories, and the scars that can be shown to those back home. Maybe the more daring ones who are thinking about giving it a whirl, will give some added thought before they slip their coin into this crazy ride.http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

One way or another, we all find our way home. And the ways to do that are as numerous as stars in the galaxy. And here's one to ponder: If indeed there really is no time or space, then what's the hurry? http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif


You are right samsara is a teacher, if you know how to look.
The question is how long do you what to hang about?
Bearing in mind you next incarnation may be 'something' sunning itself on a mushroom, two miles underground, not knowing why on earth it's there, if earth in actuality the planet earth is the one you are on! ...and that's if you are lucky!

Ah, are you talking about the Buddhist story that says the odds of having a human incarnation, are the same as a small ring floating somewhere in the ocean, and a turtle just blindly happening to surface where it goes right around his neck? I don't buy that one. But hell, even if it's true Tony, does your metaphorical mushroom sound so much different to that of a large swath of humanity? Atleast the mushroom can just kick back and relax in it's ignorance.:cool: Might not be so bad, especially if it's growing out of a cow patty.

Cheers,
Fred

You have a point.
Maybe it's about wasting time, and the panic of forgetting.
Maybe this is one's very last incarnation, it would be a pity to miss the party!

I wonder how many time we have nearly opened the door, but have turned around and done something else?

:wave:

[another bob]

Homage and Gratitude to all of my Teachers, who always and only pointed me back to myself!

Manifold indeed are the paths one can walk, but the way of others can never be mine — moment to moment I discover my own.

To do so, I relinquish the shaky security of any borrowed or second-hand certainty. There is no certainty in being true, nor regret in utter insecurity.

When I sobered up a little, I began cleaning my cave by first discarding all judgment and opinion, until everything let go and resumed its natural state, as if I’d never wandered in dark light, seeking shelter from that which merely wished to rest at last and disappear with me.

One day the sound of the murmuring stream stopped — sudden gratitude flooded my heart.

Now, clear or muddy, it just runs on, sometimes noticed, sometimes not.

A stream of dreams in a dream of streams — when every direction is the same, we can relax and enjoy the flow.

It will not harm us.

We can understand, and in understanding, we can learn to forgive.

In forgiving everyone everything, something exhales.

Birth and death tenderly caress — dream characters awaken to dissolve –

then mind peeks out from under the covers, smiling coyly,

“Oh, what did I miss?”

Eventually, when we are softened and opened enough to accept things as they actually are, to accept that we simply are, never knowing what that is except that we simply, undeniably, are, the old conflict knotting the heart, the wanting of anything to be otherwise, gracefully subsides.

There is great mercy here.

We can allow the anxious animals to move closer and huddle next to us — all searching creatures of the daylight, yearning for the welcoming embrace of a tenderly falling night.

Vastness pumps itself luxuriously through every bloodstream, circling an oasis named the Heart.

The Heart is the infinite abode.

It has no boundary of flesh, thought, judgment, or even choice.

This streaming power pours unceasingly from the same source as all anxious animals, lovers, sense of self and no-self.

The energy required to resist, to oppose, is the same that powers the contraption of clinging.

I left that rusting machine at the base of some old mountain, near a riverbank with my uniform of reason, and now I float, naked on the currents, dazzled by the glinting streambed stones gliding swiftly by beneath me.

[sirdipswitch]

I miss my Reptillian past, when life was simple, and no-one that valued life, dared tell me that I might be wrong.... hehehehehehe chucklechucklechucklechuckle

sirdipswitch

[NancyV]

In all the subjects I have studied, I needed a teacher, or an instructor to help me refine what I knew.
Otherwise I and others would have ben floundering for years....doing it my way, when it was not satisfying.


Isn't Samsara itself the ultimate teacher Tony? I find there's a certain satisfaction in having floundered around here for eons, making every possible mistake, and riding that old horse for all she's worth. Besides, it gives one street cred. And just think of the stories, and the scars that can be shown to those back home. Maybe the more daring ones who are thinking about giving it a whirl, will give some added thought before they slip their coin into this crazy ride.http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

One way or another, we all find our way home. And the ways to do that are as numerous as stars in the galaxy. And here's one to ponder: If indeed there really is no time or space, then what's the hurry? http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

Cheers Mate,
Fred
I have absolutely loved floundering around and have many scars to prove it!! LOL.. I just got off the phone with my best friend who had just seen a client. She works for the state counseling addicts and alcoholics. Needless to say it can be draining so she calls me almost every day and we raise the energy level.

She was caught with feeling like there was something she was supposed to do to HELP the client...who absolutely does not want to help herself and doesn't even admit that there's a problem with her cutting herself and her husband with a knife when she gets into a drug or alcoholic blackout state. How do you help someone who doesn't even see a problem.?

My answer is...you DON'T help them. We all get to enjoy our floundering around for as long as we choose to. I reminded my friend that we all have eternity...and that is a very very loooooong time. We get to play any role we choose to play, we get to remain in the hells or heavens for as long as we believe they have a hold on us. We get to experience karma as long as we believe it controls us. When we give up those beliefs we can no longer be controlled.

I agree that teachers can help and I have had some wonderful teachers and gurus. Some of the worst were often the ones I learned the most from. But there does come a time....after you merge with the Source ...that there is nothing more you are seeking. Sure you can still play the games here and in other dimensions and have fun learning and reading, but it's all for fun....the seeking is over. There is no further need for a teacher.

Everyone is part of the Source and if they're still hanging out in fear, pain or misery, we can remind them here on earth and in hells or heavens that they can let that go and change their reality....or they can choose to continue living in fear and illusion, even if it's a heavenly illusion it's still a prison. If they will not hear that, then they are not ready to move on from that game. Easy...simple...no blame...no shame...it's all perfect.

[Fred Steeves]

Maybe this is one's very last incarnation, it would be a pity to miss the party!

I wonder how many time we have nearly opened the door, but have turned around and done something else?


Well, I would reckon that's part of the fun. The suspense, the thrills and chills, and the woulda, coulda, shoulda's. Hell, we've probably even boldly stepped through that door, just to realize it's a trap door. I don't know about you Tony, but the game's getting really old, and I just don't don't give a sh!t about the rules supposedly governing things any more. Morgan Freeman's character in "The Shawshank Redemption" sums up my sentiments very nicely during his last parole hearing. Substitute the word enlightenment for rehabililated, and it's spot on.

Di7vbNJwzZQ

Cheers,
Fred

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Ah, are you talking about the Buddhist story that says the odds of having a human incarnation, are the same as a small ring floating somewhere in the ocean, and a turtle just blindly happening to surface where it goes right around his neck? I don't buy that one.

It is my understanding that parables like this one are not a description of mathematical odds. This is just an attempt to shed light on the rare preciousness of the opportunity of every moment of being human and alive. It's about value, not odds.

[sirdipswitch]

NancyV

Absolutely agree with everything you say.
All is well


Fred
Spot on mate!


love and peace
sirdipswitch

[another bob]

Maybe this is one's very last incarnation, it would be a pity to miss the party!

I wonder how many time we have nearly opened the door, but have turned around and done something else?


Well, I would reckon that's part of the fun. The suspense, the thrills and chills, and the woulda, coulda, shoulda's. Hell, we've probably even boldly stepped through that door, just to realize it's a trap door.


Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and it can happen here and now, but for your being more interested in other things. And you cannot fight with your interests. You must go with them, see through them and and watch them reveal themselves as mere errors of judgments and appreciation. Discard every self-seeking motive as soon as it is seen and you need not search for truth; truth will find you.

~Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Eram]

Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and it can happen here and now, but for your being more interested in other things. And you cannot fight with your interests. You must go with them, see through them and and watch them reveal themselves as mere errors of judgments and appreciation. Discard every self-seeking motive as soon as it is seen and you need not search for truth; truth will find you.

~Nisargadatta Maharaj

Well thank you Bob,

This wonderful quote just ended a 2 day's frustration in a maze that I set myself upon.

Somehow I keep ending up with the believe that i can end my interests on willpower.

I think this quote will have to go on a tile in the bathroom somewhere :laugh:

[another bob]

Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and it can happen here and now, but for your being more interested in other things. And you cannot fight with your interests. You must go with them, see through them and and watch them reveal themselves as mere errors of judgments and appreciation. Discard every self-seeking motive as soon as it is seen and you need not search for truth; truth will find you.

~Nisargadatta Maharaj

Well thank you Bob,

This wonderful quote just ended a 2 day's frustration in a maze that I set myself upon.

Somehow I keep ending up with the believe that i can end my interest on willpower.

I think this quote will have to go on a tile in the bathroom somewhere :laugh:



Consider yourself fortunate, my Dear Friend, to have realized after only a couple of days. Most aspirants I have encountered spend years trying to storm the gates of heaven, often lifetimes. It just don't work that way. Truth is not an acquisition predicated on an act of will. Here's one of my favorite Soul Sisters on the subject:

The Liberated Soul
Marguerite Porete

The liberated soul has nothing to sin with, for without a will no one can sin. Now she is kept from sin if she leaves her will there where it is planted, that is, in the One who has given it to her freely from His goodness. She is dissolved by annihilation into that prior existence where Love has received her. Love and such Souls are one thing, no longer two things.

She has fallen into certainty of knowing nothing and into certainty of willing nothing. And this nothingness ... gives her the All, and no one can possess it in any other way. Whoever would ask such free Souls, sure and peaceful, if they would want to be in purgatory, they would say no; or if they would want to be certain of salvation in this life, they would say no; or if they want to be in paradise, they would say no. But then with what would they will it? They no longer possess any will, and if they would desire anything, they would separate themselves from Love. Such a Soul neither desires nor despises poverty nor tribulation, neither mass nor sermon, neither fast nor prayer, and gives to Nature all that is necessary, without remorse of conscience. But such Nature is so well ordered through the transformation by unity of Love, to whom the will is conjoined, that Nature demands nothing which is prohibited.

This life is the handmaid and servant who prepares the place for the arrival and lodging of the great being of the Freeness of Willing Nothing, by which the Soul is in all points satisfied. That is, [the Soul is satisfied] by this nothingness which gives all things. For the one who gives all, possesses all, and not otherwise.


This Soul is so well established that if she possessed all the understanding of all the creatures who ever were and who are and who are to come, so it would seem to her as nothing, compared to what she loves, which never was understood, is not now, and never will be. For God is none other than the One of whom one can understand nothing perfectly. God is incomprehensible except by Himself. Thus it is better that the Soul be in the sweet country of understanding-nothing ...

This greater part of absolute divine Love shows her her nothingness, naked without covering; such nakedness shows her the All Powerful through the goodness of divine righteousness. These showings make her deep, large, supreme, and sure. For they make her always naked, All and Nothing, as long as they hold her in their embrace.

The Divine Goodness pours out from [His] bosom one rapturous overflow of the movement of Divine Light. Such movement of Divine Light, which is poured into the Soul by light, shows to the will of the Soul the rightness of what is and the understanding of what is not in order to move the will of the soul from the place where it now is, where it ought not to be, in order to dissolve it where it is not, whence it comes, and where it ought to remain.

The liberated soul no longer seeks God through penitence, nor through any sacrament of Holy Church; not through thoughts, nor through words, nor through works; not through creature here below, nor through creature above; not through justice, nor through mercy, nor through glory of glory; not through divine understanding, nor through divine love, nor through divine praise.

Such Souls ... possess as equally dear, shame as honor, and honor as shame; poverty as wealth, and wealth as poverty; torment from God and
his creatures, as comfort from God and His creatures; to be loved as hated, and hated as loved; to be in hell as in paradise, and in paradise as in hell; and in small estate as in great, and great estate as small ... They neither will nor not-will anything of these prosperities nor of these adversities.

She has fallen into certainty of knowing nothing and into certainty of willing nothing. And this nothingness ... gives her the All, and no one can possess it in any other way.


Marguerite Porete was a 14th century French mystic who authored a
book entitled “The Mirror of Simple Annihilated Souls and Those Who
Only Remain in Will and Desire of Love”. This book was condemned by
the French Inquisition as being heretical. Marguerite Porete was
asked to recant. When she refused to respond to her inquisitors, she
was condemned to death. On 1 June 1310 she was burned at the stake in
Paris.


:yo:

[Dorjezigzag]

Well this is the first time I have posted on one of your threads since you have returned so welcome back.

I have been interested with your constant reference to the word ‘essence’, we all have associations with certain words and of course many translations of Buddhist teachings express the importance of essence.

One of my favourite musings on ‘essence' is in the book IN SEARCH OF THE MIRACULOUS, by P. D. OUSPENSKY which fittingly for this thread is a book written by the student ouspensky about his teacher Gurdjieeff.

He refers to essence and personality which could in some ways be related to the ego and id of Freud, or the tonal and nagual of Castaneda’s world as introduced by his teacher Don Juan. It is interesting that the id of Freud can be related to the non developed essence as described by Gurdjieeff, indeed many people of modern society do have an essence that corresponds to Freud’s description of the ID.

So anyway if you haven’t already I really recommend reading IN SEARCH OF THE MIRACULOUS, he talks a lot about essence and personality but here are some quotes that I feel relate to this thread

"It must be understood that man consists of two parts: essence and personality. Essence in man is what is his own. Personality in man is what is 'not his own.' 'Not his own' means what has come from outside, what he has learned, or reflects, all traces of exterior impressions left in the memory and in the sensations, all words and movements that have been learned, all feelings created by imitation—all this is 'not his own,' all this is personality.
"From the point of view of ordinary psychology the division of man into personality and essence is hardly comprehensible. It is more exact to say that such a division does not exist in psychology at all.
"A small child has no personality as yet. He is what he really is. He is essence. His desires, tastes, likes, dislikes, express his being such as it is.
"But as soon as so-called 'education' begins personality begins to grow. Personality is created partly by the intentional influences of other people, that is, by 'education,' and partly by involuntary imitation of them by the child itself. In the creation of personality a great part is also played by 'resistance' to people around him and by attempts to conceal from them something that is 'his own' or 'real.'


A successful beginning of work on oneself requires the happy occurrence of an equal development of personality and essence. Such an occurrence will give the greatest assurance of success. If essence is very-little developed, a long preparatory period of work is required and this work will be quite fruitless if a man's essence is rotten inside or if it develops some irreparable defects. Conditions of this kind occur fairly often. An abnormal development of personality very often arrests the development of essence at such an early stage that the essence becomes a small deformed thing. From a small deformed thing nothing else can be
got.
"Moreover, it happens fairly often that essence dies in a man while his personality and his body are still alive. A considerable percentage of the people we meet in the streets of a great town are people who are empty inside, that is, they are actually
already dead.
"It is fortunate for us that we do not see and do not know it. If we knew what a number of people are actually dead and what a number of these dead people govern our lives, we should go mad with horror. And indeed people often do go mad because they End out something of this nature without the proper preparation, that is, they see something they are not supposed to see. In order to see without danger one must be on the way. If a man who can do nothing sees the truth he will certainly go mad. Only this rarely happens. Usually everything is so arranged that a man can see nothing prematurely. Personality sees only what it likes to see and what does not interfere with its life. It never sees what it does not like. This is both good and bad at the same time. It is good if a man wants to sleep, bad if he wants to awaken."

Here is another quote that I like,

Essence is one, its expressions are infinite. Truth is one, its forms are many. Existence is one; its faces
and gestures are myriad.
But you cannot understand it if you approach it as a philosophy. You can understand it only if you
approach it experientially, if you know it as an experience. All this I say just to explain it to you; this
explanation cannot become your knowing, your experience. You will have to know it for yourself. And
when you will enter into one and know it you will exclaim, "My God, what I had known as body is you;
what I had known as mind is you, and what I had known as atman is also you!"

[RunningDeer]

Teacher of a different kind now...

[Tony]

An illustration of the outer teacher, inner teacher and the emotions working together.

This is probably the most difficult article I have ever written, because it entails many elements. It will show how nothing is perfect, and, everything is perfect.

I write on several forums ( just experimenting) and quite often an individual will come up, who holds a very strong view. This one was about there is no need for a teacher, path or practice.
A common theme from the new age sector, and they have every right to their view.

This is not about them, but my reaction. I'd like to know if others have experienced something similar.

There had been a long discussion spanning a few weeks, and it was a little frustrating, because there was no discussion, just repetition of set phrases. After the last session, I just blew my top! I felt totally useless, and it all seemed pointless. I just could not work out what had gone wrong, as I felt that I couldn't help anyone.

During meditation this morning, this was my overall feeling, and it seemed to get worse and worse. In fact I noticed that it was speeding up (or out of control!) Suddenly the word 'speed' rang out! Now this may get complicated, but I'll try to keep sane!

The word 'speed' had a great significance. This is to do with the subtle body, it's where our residue of feelings are held. I wouldn't have known this unless my teacher had explained it to me. What happens is that an external event occurs and because of past experiences the inner wind rises and one might feel anxious or anger or fear or some sort of tension in the body.

So because of the weeks of frustration, a reaction had occurred in my subtle body, this was aversion, which in this case was subtle fear. Fear of not being able to deal with the situation, so fear of my own mind!

This emotion was very bright and clear, it had an energy in it. If one knows the nature of emotions then they can either stay demonic or seen as wisdom. I know this because my teacher explained it to me. In Tibetan buddhism there is a diagram of the 'wheel of life', part of it has the twelve links of cyclic life, each depending on the other for our habitual patterning to take place.

At number seven is a fellow with an arrow in his eye, this represents 'contact'. It is the moment when past karma ripens, and if we just react, we merely continue in our habit, making a deeper and deeper groove! However if we are able to not 'react', to find a gap in our reactions, we experience the freedom of space, and no karma is produced. I know this because my teacher explained it to me.

So, our inner teacher is Essence. This was introduced to me by my own practice, and verified by my teacher. Having realised my true Essence ( a baby realisation!) I was able to see that the whole of phenomena was now my teacher, ie karmically produced situations. Which on every occasion is an opportunity to negate karmic effects, instead of acting in a repeated pattern.

To keep this short, the outcome of all this is...noticing! It is not a eureka moment, it is a gradual understanding. The same things will arise in the future, but will be recognise or noted more easily.
This is part of the process, if one chooses to work that way.

There are two parts to our enlightened journey, one is realising our true Essence.
The other is exhausting our reactions (karma).

Sometimes we hear the phrase, “It resonates with me”.We have to be sure what this is. This could either be a true connection with our inner teacher, or just familiar feelings in this subtle body.

It has to be noted that our emotional reactions can drive us into a 'rage of righteousness' which we may find we enjoy...for the moment! This is up to you if this is the way you want to live. But it does not solve the problem, it creates the next one!

So one can see how nothing is perfect, because obstacles always arise. But everything can be seen as perfect as it all fits together, therefore can be taken apart! What notices all this, it's our knowing quality, our nature is to Know.

Whatever method works for you, works. If it does work, use it. The outcome will be loving kindness, and that is exactly what the world needs now, as long as we know what is going on, in our minds!

[Tony]

The teacher really is in our mind.

When I go and see my Tibetan teacher, I can see him in many ways.
I can see him as a monk, as a mindless person, as a learned person, as a spiritual friend,
as a smiling guy, as someone in funny clothing, as a reincarnated bodhisattva or as a Buddha.

However I see him, I get that value back!

The teacher, really is, our mind.

Tony

[music]

I was given the understanding that there are no teachers, rather there is a two-way learning process. The truest meaning of guru is not teacher, but the two-way learning process going on between "teacher" and "student". Where does teacher end and student begin? Where does self end and other begin?

[Dorjezigzag]

The teacher really is in our mind.

When I go and see my Tibetan teacher, I can see him in many ways.
I can see him as a monk, as a mindless person, as a learned person, as a spiritual friend,
as a smiling guy, as someone in funny clothing, as a reincarnated bodhisattva or as a Buddha.

However I see him, I get that value back!

The teacher, really is, our mind.

Tony

Your path has taken you to Tibetan Buddhism other paths have taken them away. I think it is interesting to consider the story of Osel Hita Torres which I feel also relates to your other recent posts since you have returned.


As a toddler, he was put on a throne and worshipped by monks who treated him like a god. But the boy chosen by the Dalai Lama as a reincarnation of a spiritual leader has caused consternation – and some embarrassment – for Tibetan Buddhists by turning his back on the order that had such high hopes for him.


He is now studying film in Madrid and has denounced the Buddhist order that elevated him to guru status. "They took me away from my family and stuck me in a medieval situation in which I suffered a great deal," said Torres, 24, describing how he was whisked from obscurity in Granada to a monastery in southern India. "It was like living a lie," he told the Spanish newspaper El Mundo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/31/dalai-lama-osel-hita-torres

[cacophony]

this is an absolutely awesome thread...I feel much to learn in the last two pages.

There is something to be said of the perpetual student. The one who does not need a teacher. I do believe we never stop learning, so does the path even move, or really exist, anyway?
"A stream of dreams in a dream of streams — when every direction is the same, we can relax and enjoy the flow." Wonderful way to put it, thanks another bob.

I am one who desires a teacher.
I am a guitar teacher, and have been for almost five years. I strongly consider that I only know myself, and in knowing myself, know the experience of becoming good at the guitar. And I came to the conclusion that everything is a guitar, and if so, then I know that I am a guitar, and a teacher is fundamental for me.
just one viewpoint :)
I have applied it to zen. I can get the single-pointed mind, it has taken a while, but I am there. And so I started asking myself a koan, "what is the sound of one hand clapping" and man! I realized I can finally tune the strings, but can't even play a C Chord!
...time to find a teacher, haha.

[Tony]

I was given the understanding that there are no teachers, rather there is a two-way learning process. The truest meaning of guru is not teacher, but the two-way learning process going on between "teacher" and "student". Where does teacher end and student begin? Where does self end and other begin?

That is a true meeting of minds. I have had teachers for which I am truly grateful for their time teaching me. I then can reflect, study, practice and experience what was taught, and therefore refine my understanding. That's how I learnt to paint, as well as many other things.

Tony

[Tony]

The teacher really is in our mind.

When I go and see my Tibetan teacher, I can see him in many ways.
I can see him as a monk, as a mindless person, as a learned person, as a spiritual friend,
as a smiling guy, as someone in funny clothing, as a reincarnated bodhisattva or as a Buddha.

However I see him, I get that value back!

The teacher, really is, our mind.

Tony

Your path has taken you to Tibetan Buddhism other paths have taken them away. I think it is interesting to consider the story of Osel Hita Torres which I feel also relates to your other recent posts since you have returned.


As a toddler, he was put on a throne and worshipped by monks who treated him like a god. But the boy chosen by the Dalai Lama as a reincarnation of a spiritual leader has caused consternation – and some embarrassment – for Tibetan Buddhists by turning his back on the order that had such high hopes for him.


He is now studying film in Madrid and has denounced the Buddhist order that elevated him to guru status. "They took me away from my family and stuck me in a medieval situation in which I suffered a great deal," said Torres, 24, describing how he was whisked from obscurity in Granada to a monastery in southern India. "It was like living a lie," he told the Spanish newspaper El Mundo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/31/dalai-lama-osel-hita-torres

Each to their own. There are as many paths as there are beings....all confused! It's understanding the nature of that path, that the path dissolves into realisation, of our true nature. Until then We peel away our confusion.

Tony

[Tony]

this is an absolutely awesome thread...I feel much to learn in the last two pages.

There is something to be said of the perpetual student. The one who does not need a teacher. I do believe we never stop learning, so does the path even move, or really exist, anyway?
"A stream of dreams in a dream of streams — when every direction is the same, we can relax and enjoy the flow." Wonderful way to put it, thanks another bob.

I am one who desires a teacher.
I am a guitar teacher, and have been for almost five years. I strongly consider that I only know myself, and in knowing myself, know the experience of becoming good at the guitar. And I came to the conclusion that everything is a guitar, and if so, then I know that I am a guitar, and a teacher is fundamental for me.
just one viewpoint :)
I have applied it to zen. I can get the single-pointed mind, it has taken a while, but I am there. And so I started asking myself a koan, "what is the sound of one hand clapping" and man! I realized I can finally tune the strings, but can't even play a C Chord!
...time to find a teacher, haha.

The path gradually dissolves, it never existed in the first place. It's our confused beliefs that hold it together.

Tony

[greybeard]

The teacher and the one taught are the same.
There is only one consciouness.
Still till that is realised a teaching is very helpful to point to the way.
When obstructions are removed the illumined truth shines forth.
You are That Truth in reality.
Only One reality--- you are That.
One without a second.
Chris

[crested-duck]

We never stop learning/evolving unless we choose to. I have learned from everybody and everything in universe that I experience . When we share knowledge and try to teach/help others for their benefit and growth, it is also an act of unconditional love. Although it it not seen as such ,or obvious until ones awareness grows. Thanks to all my teachers/aquaintences , and hopefully someone can learn from me too, and the cycle will continue.....Rob

[Tony]

I'd like to explain a little personal experience.

If it wasn't for my teachers I would not have realised the Buddha's teaching on knowing emptiness, clear inner space. So I regard my teachers as more important than the Buddha. But because these teachings come from the Buddha, I regard my teachers as the Buddha, as it is an unbroken lineage.

Because of this, I practice Guru Yoga. Guru Yoga is not worship of the guru, it is a meeting of minds. Guru yoga is supplicating all Buddha(s), and asking for blessings.

When I pray, I talk and the Buddhas listen. When I meditate the Buddhas talk and I listen.
So what do they say? Nothing! But it seems one is blessed with little clarity!

This clarity, together with study and practices produces knowledge and a little wisdom.
What activates all this, is the needs that are recognised. These are not personal needs, but a bonus is the clarity.

Some Buddhas are supplicated for memory, or compassion, or protection, or wisdom. Devotion is deep appreciation and trust. I can only do so much, and that is through study, reflection, meditation and motivation. The rest is received inspiration, and it is very precise.

Without my teachers none of this would be known. What is important here, the effect of blessings are not taught, they were the outcome of practice. We do the work.

For you this is hearsay, for me it is direct experience. This is not channeling, merely inspiration.


The picture is bigger than you think,

Tony

[Tony]

Can I share with you, the best thing in the world (for me)?

Going on retreat, sitting in a TEACHING for 4 hours a day for a month, given by a TEACHER going through a ancient text to refine one's own understanding.
We go through a text, looking at the translation, and a commentary of the text.
Then the TEACHER gives a commentary on the commentary. Then we question everything, which triggers more investigation.
What a wonderful time that is!

Then we practice what was taught to see how it co-insides or not with our own investigations...truly wonderful.

Now the most exciting thing is, coming up with a slightly different view! As I've indicated many times,
there are many levels of the same TEACHING, the same words but different meaning. At each level, perception changes,
one moves naturally through these levels of understanding.

Beyond thought there are many nuances of experience, so when one saw something one way, there can be (and generally is)
variations on that not seen before. This only happens when one goes through these subtle stages, and breaks through any fixations,
about what was seen before.


To think that one 'knows' something is to fixate upon a concept, and is conceited. It would make a Buddha smile!

Anyone who guides others to realise the truth will be revered by me, this deep appreciation was the beginning of understanding the power of Devotion.



Tony