Reminder:

[peace]

Calibrate your 'B.S. Meter' often.

Take a step back. Realize not everything is a conspiracy.

If/When you find yourself on PA too much, take your fingers off the mouse/keyboard, take a deep breath and ask; "Is what I'm reading really affecting my life or is this just a bunch of words on a screen that I have never seen substantiated?"

Again: Nothing happens in 2012.

Wilcock is wrong - well meaning (I think, to a point), but wrong.

Channelled information is silly to follow.

When I reptillian walks up to me and introduces himself I'll believe. Until then don't waste my time. Fear mongering. No thanks, I choose not to play.

Same with the greys (tall and small). Come on.

I'm not going to be afraid of: bank collapses, reptillians, nwo, illumanti, greys, or a shadow government. the phrase shadow government is like saying "shadow democracy," it doesn't make sense, it's not a real, tangible thing. get it?

I think some of you (self included at times) get a little wrapped up in ideas that have never been substantiated and it bums me out because the ideas are being spouted as fact. I write about this a lot on here. I don't think it's healthy.

Maybe this helped, maybe not. Either way: have a good day.














Before you start:
Who are you to say what people do with their time? (nobody: have worked a ton in the mental health arena though, so ...)

Who are you to say these things haven't been substantiated? What proof have you found? (none)

You're jealous of Wilcock because you are an insecure man (insecure yes, jealous no. I don't like what he does because his work is based on his interpretation of 'facts' he's gathered from 'experts' then he pulls it over on people like cold, hard fact. He's a well meaning person that has gone WAAAY of the tracks. You know when you see something off but everyone is saying, "oh it's so good, it's helping," and your realize, "No, you're are being lied to and you will be very upset and hurt later."

so. you are being lied to. by the very people you think are helping. i hate to see it.
they are playing on your emotions and taking your time away from things that matter (yourself). they are stealing your emotional energy (sitting in front of a computer getting worried counts - trust me).

[RMorgan]

Hey peace,

Nice thread brother. I agree with you 100%.

For instance, everyone should check this table, when presented to new information.

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt7/rafaelmorgan2/table.jpg

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_collection_management#Ratings_by_the_Collection_Department

This table is used in intelligence agencies all around the world for a reason; because it works.

It should be good enough for those who want to "calibrate" their BS meters, using international intelligence standards.

The biggest part of the info showed in forums like this falls in Source Rating D, E , F and Information Content Rating 4,5,6, mostly E4 and E5.

Only reliable information is good information. The rest is garbage.

Using this table, my definition of fairly reliable information falls in A,B,C and 1,2,3 classifications.

Like someone said on another thread, we should print this table on t-shirts and sell them on alternative conferences and lectures all around the world.

Personally, I think the moderation team should make a sticky post with this table here for, like you said, BS calibration purposes.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Mike Gorman]

100% pure good sense, there are a lot of sensitive souls out there who sincerely get caught up in these eddy currents of gossip, hearsay and self posturing.
That being said, there are certainly more things betwixt Heaven & Earth than are dreamed of in our collective philosophies...the final picture and reasons for it
will no doubt be quite different to what we expect. Carry on, just don't get too carried away....

[Camilo]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,........thanks for the laugh, I needed one!.

By the way, everyone lives in their own unique picture of reality, so who cares about what's in it, after all, the only thing that will manifest in yours, is what you believe in anyway.

Have fun!

[the_vast_mystery]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,........thanks for the laugh, I needed one!.

By the way, everyone lives in their own unique picture of reality, so who cares about what's in it, after all, the only thing that will happen in yours, is what you believe in anyway.

Have fun!

Because whether you realize it or not other people can violently intrude into your "Reality" in ways you wouldn't notice if you don't pay attention to the unconscious, communally shared aspect of reality. Yes we all have our own POV but there's still, for better or worse an external world that comes "from" something and by all appearances has certain common rules we all are bound by. Rules like gravity, magnetism, weak/strong nuclear forces, the speed of light, etc. It is through these rules that people may be exploited without their willing consent, as they only need to consent to the same things the rest of us do. Such as to not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics or move faster than the speed of light. ;p

We like to talk about beliefs or thoughts shaping our reality but even if that is true, it's not the thoughts or beliefs that the conscious us has absolutely any control over. Otherwise you could close your eyes and walk through walls because you ceased to see them. But no, ceasing to see the wall doesn't prevent the weak or strong nuclear forces from doing their job and keeping your atoms on one side and its on the other reliably. So whether or not at a grander level we are merely condensed thought or coalesced forms of consciousness the reality "on the ground" is that we have to operate within all of the scientific principles that this reality operates under.

Ignorance of those principles does not make you immune from their effects and in fact leaves you quite vulnerable to exploitation as you're now operating under a false sense of security that you can magically unmake your already-made agreement not to violate certain scientific principles while here. After all, if it were truly that simple, someone else would have figured it out by now and be publicly demonstrating it. But no, people very much die from jumping off a sky scraper believing they could fly, faith healers regularly have their sick children die from preventable diseases, etc. Consciousness has some effect, the placebo effect in fact! But still, its usefulness is in most cases quite limited.

So being very aware and informed on this aspect of our reality is crucial to successful operation here. Otherwise you will quickly face mountains of unforeseen consequences the moment you decide to take your first serious risk on your "Spiritual path." Violence exists, violent people exist, things people view as very unhealthy or harmful are real, and you don't even have to actively court or engage with them in any way for them to harm you. (Just like you don't need to intend to be in a car accident for someone else to be drunk and hit you.) As the economy attests to as well, many people are finding themselves in dire straights just to put food on the table because of decisions other people made without their direct consent.

Whether or not these function off of any level of consent, again, is meaningless to our "reality on the ground." Because even if every car accident is part of a contract that is agreed upon at a soul level before incarnation, we still have no conscious access to this. So regardless of what may be we are left only with what we can physically observe. So since we can't know it's better to just admit to the random possibility that anyone, at any time, could quite powerfully or even dangerously intercede in our lives. Because of this, understanding the principles the physical world works under become necessary if we're to achieve any degree of security in our existence here. How much we need to know depends on what we think we might end up facing. If it's just a drunk driver a good set of eyes on the road is all you need, but beyond that it's up to each of us to really think about what problems we might face given what we can reasonably assume to be true about the world.

This is why I think reality testing has to be a component of anyone attempting to be spiritual; your material needs to not just make people feel better about themselves, it needs to translate into practical applications that are demonstrable here with whatever we have now. If you want to just be spiritual in the sense of "Love revolution! Let's rebuild the earth with compassionate communities!" that's a lot different than "On December 21st 2012 the GFOL will land on the white house lawn for first contact, after which humanity will be ushered into a new Golden age of galactic participation." The first is really just a general social belief based on some observations of what works at forming resilient communities. The other is a much further out there proclamation that suddenly all life as we know it will change (which either means, do nothing but wait until then or "Sell everything you own, quit your job and sever all connections to the old you in preparation from the new world.") In either case the latter is either encouraging people to do nothing but feel better (which is useless for someone currently in a bad situation that is stressing them out. Such as the economic hardships much of America faces now) or worse encouraging them to do something very reckless. Anyone, before doing the latter should ask for a high degree of proof, and if it's the former? Well that's the mark of a Charlatan right there, telling you to endlessly wait for something they can offer you no proof of, keeping you perpetually on their hook for new info or whatever to keep your belief-based self-esteem up until the "promised time." If they don't want you to do anything other than stand in waiting with them for an indeterminate period of time then chances are they just want your attention, or in the case of bloggers your page views to sell ads.

It's good to be accepting, and it's good to be nice, but not to the point of total naivety. People thinking scientifically often get dismissed, but science is still very relevant and important to how we operate here. Even if there are certain areas that currently suffer under some bias. (Which there were some interesting studies to confirm. There's been a notable decline in the quality of a lot of peer-reviewed material lately.)

[RUSirius]

I'm happy about this thread, due to uncertainties of my own thoughts, frustrations due to so much conflicting information, I am taking the approach of a clean slate, I read these threads to see others view points, however I admit I have virtually no original thoughts on any of these topics unless someone sparks a thought in which case my thought is still not that original since it ultimately came from someone else's thought. At first I was frustrated with running into "walls" now I'm slowly moving out and both seeing what the future holds/attempting to create my life the way I want. My level of success is totally unknown at the moment.

[RMorgan]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,........thanks for the laugh, I needed one!.

By the way, everyone lives in their own unique picture of reality, so who cares about what's in it, after all, the only thing that will happen in yours, is what you believe in anyway.

Have fun!

Hey mate,

As our friend, the vast mystery said, we all share different perspectives over reality, but we live in a single reality which is shared by everyone on this planet.

For instance, if something happens on Fukushima, that makes its nuclear disaster even worse, the whole world would feel the consequences, independently if you believe in radioactivity or not.

As another example, if someones shoot you with a gun, independently if you believe in guns or not, you´ll get hurt or die.

This "mind over matter" concept is fascinating but it´s not very practical.

If you pick up a tennis ball and deny with all your strength that it´s a tennis ball, while at the same time, affirming it´s a delicious tomato, you may even try to eat it, but I´m sure it wont taste good.

Just like, no matter how much you believe you can fly, if you jump from the top of a building, you´ll probably die.

So yes, our beliefs influence our lives; they may lead us to change the way we perceive reality but, no matter how much you deny, there´s an overwhelmingly huge group of external elements which act directly upon us.

Ask the native americans if they believed on the existence of the first European settlers; they didn´t, in fact, they didn´t even suspect about their existence. Well, believing or not, it didn´t stop the Europeans to decimate them.

Reality is made of common rules and facts, that are experienced by every being on this planet. Reality is not an entity by itself and it´s not directly affected by beliefs.

The only way a belief can affect reality, is if you put that belief to practice, bringing it from the realm of the imagination, to the realm of reality ( eg: a person believes he wont be damaged by a bullet because he´s wearing a bullet proof vest).

Cheers,

Raf.

[DeDukshyn]

All I have to add to this (the OP) ... is this:

For those of you who have eyes to see what is to come - or see the potential, the truth of what humanity is, do not let that distract you from the work that needs to be done to get us to the point of this full realization.

One more thing ... (and I catch myself doing this a lot) -- we give TPTW waaay too much credit. ;) (so easy to be a "victim" isn't it?)

My 2 cents ;)

[DeDukshyn]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,........thanks for the laugh, I needed one!.

By the way, everyone lives in their own unique picture of reality, so who cares about what's in it, after all, the only thing that will happen in yours, is what you believe in anyway.

Have fun!

Hey mate,

As our friend, the vast mystery said, we all share different perspectives over reality, but we live in a single reality which is shared by everyone on this planet.

For instance, if something happens on Fukushima, that makes its nuclear disaster even worse, the whole world would feel the consequences, independently if you believe in radioactivity or not.

As another example, if someones shoot you with a gun, independently if you believe in guns or not, you´ll get hurt or die.

This "mind over matter" concept is fascinating but it´s not very practical.

If you pick up a tennis ball and deny with all your strength that it´s a tennis ball, while at the same time, affirming it´s a delicious tomato, you may even try to eat it, but I´m sure it wont taste good.

Just like, no matter how much you believe you can fly, if you jump from the top of a building, you´ll probably die.

So yes, our beliefs influence our lives; they may lead us to change the way we perceive reality but, no matter how much you deny, there´s an overwhelmingly huge group of external elements which act directly upon us.

Ask the native americans if they believed on the existence of the first European settlers; they didn´t, in fact, they didn´t even suspect about their existence. Well, believing or not, it didn´t stop the Europeans to decimate them.

Reality is made of common rules and facts, that are experienced by every being on this planet. Reality is not an entity by itself and it´s not directly affected by beliefs.

The only way a belief can affect reality, is if you put that belief to practice, bringing it from the realm of the imagination, to the realm of reality ( eg: a person believes he wont be damaged by a bullet because he´s wearing a bullet proof vest).

Cheers,

Raf.

The "information wars" are dying down. The "Belief Wars" are just beginning. Why is a "belief war" happening anyway? Like, who cares, right? Add conscious creation influenced by belief into the mix and things start to make sense .... but you have to understand how each human adds an exponential element, while some degree of "reality bending" is innate in each human, it is the masses of humans with the same belief that do the heavy lifting.

On an individual level, consider the "placebo affect". This is very real and dictates "validity" of drugs and medicine. A placebo is about 40% - 50% effective (as only a belief - the drug is a sugar pill). In order for the FDA to consider, a drug just has to be better than the "placebo affect" -- this is why all drug trials are controlled against placebos- as opposed to no treatment. Think about all this for a serious minute.

EDit: heavily added to after initial post ... RMorgan re-check you "thanks" to ensure you still want it (not that you wouldn't - just my due diligence after the addition)

[DeDukshyn]

Hey peace,

Nice thread brother. I agree with you 100%.

For instance, everyone should check this table, when presented to new information.

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt7/rafaelmorgan2/table.jpg

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_collection_management#Ratings_by_the_Collection_Department

This table is used in intelligence agencies all around the world for a reason; because it works.

It should be good enough for those who want to "calibrate" their BS meters, using international intelligence standards.

The biggest part of the info showed in forums like this falls in Source Rating D, E , F and Information Content Rating 4,5,6, mostly E4 and E5.

Only reliable information is good information. The rest is garbage.

Using this table, my definition of fairly reliable information falls in A,B,C and 1,2,3 classifications.

Like someone said on another thread, we should print this table on t-shirts and sell them on alternative conferences and lectures all around the world.

Personally, I think the moderation team should make a sticky post with this table here for, like you said, BS calibration purposes.

Cheers,

Raf.

Unfortunately, unless you "know everything there is to know, and see things from every perspective", this is clearly not perfect. Someone has to JUDGE, to make this work. And judgements rarely have the whole picture or perspective. However, I do not have the answer, but I believe this is where tolerance for others, and gentle indications with some factual evidence for backup come into play.

In my on musings on Wilcock (since this thread has this subtle undertone already), He is incredibly talented and has done some amazing research and connected lots of dots. But stay away from his blogs, website, or dealings in current affairs. I sadly believe he is being heavily manipulated, and his ego is not fully under his control. This is just my opinion though. I never even met the man, let alone feel "authorized" to judge his situation.

[bearcow]

Unfortunately, unless you "know everything there is to know, and see things from ever perspective", this is clearly not perfect. Someone has to JUDGE, to make this work. And judgements raraly have the whole picture or perspective. However, I do not have the answer, but I believe this is where tolerance for others, and gentle indications with some factual evidence for backup come into play.

a ratings system where everyone has input will help to form a group consensus, and start to unify a sense of vision/purpose for the group.

the constant bickering on what is true/untrue can be perpetuated by the minority who have fringe views, and are not bashful about adding their input.

this is going on quite a bit lately, some people are trying to dominate the discourse, while in my opinion the silent majority on this forum chooses not to confront those who monopolize the conversation.

[DeDukshyn]

Unfortunately, unless you "know everything there is to know, and see things from ever perspective", this is clearly not perfect. Someone has to JUDGE, to make this work. And judgements raraly have the whole picture or perspective. However, I do not have the answer, but I believe this is where tolerance for others, and gentle indications with some factual evidence for backup come into play.

a ratings system where everyone has input will help to form a group consensus, and start to unify a sense of vision/purpose for the group.

the constant bickering on what is true/untrue can be perpetuated by the minority who have fringe views, and are not bashful about adding their input.

this is going on quite a bit lately, some people are trying to dominate the discourse, while in my opinion the silent majority on this forum chooses not to confront those who monopolize the conversation.

So ... some sort of ratings system where people who wish not to or feel cannot textually add input, to add input? Like an advanced, "Thanks" button? Perhaps with multiple options? It would have to be a "one vote per user" deal to prevent spamming - I think the mods already watch for multiple accounts so that is covered. There's also the issue that until a new idea - no matter how factual, accurate, or important a new idea or, concept or fact is - is accepted by the "masses" it is not real and considered false; and masses are rather easily manipulated.

I would think a rating system with a commentary to add backup, might work, but then at that conclusion were just at a normal "forum" (where people can "rate" and add commentary at will)- just used slightly different. Maybe it all just goes back to Whisky_Mystics thread on making Avalon the best forum - it all really comes down to the level of respect we give to each other, but then we're back full circle? I over thought that completely, sorry.

[RUSirius]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,........thanks for the laugh, I needed one!.

By the way, everyone lives in their own unique picture of reality, so who cares about what's in it, after all, the only thing that will happen in yours, is what you believe in anyway.

Have fun!

Hey mate,

As our friend, the vast mystery said, we all share different perspectives over reality, but we live in a single reality which is shared by everyone on this planet.

For instance, if something happens on Fukushima, that makes its nuclear disaster even worse, the whole world would feel the consequences, independently if you believe in radioactivity or not.

As another example, if someones shoot you with a gun, independently if you believe in guns or not, you´ll get hurt or die.

This "mind over matter" concept is fascinating but it´s not very practical.

If you pick up a tennis ball and deny with all your strength that it´s a tennis ball, while at the same time, affirming it´s a delicious tomato, you may even try to eat it, but I´m sure it wont taste good.

Just like, no matter how much you believe you can fly, if you jump from the top of a building, you´ll probably die.

So yes, our beliefs influence our lives; they may lead us to change the way we perceive reality but, no matter how much you deny, there´s an overwhelmingly huge group of external elements which act directly upon us.

Ask the native americans if they believed on the existence of the first European settlers; they didn´t, in fact, they didn´t even suspect about their existence. Well, believing or not, it didn´t stop the Europeans to decimate them.

Reality is made of common rules and facts, that are experienced by every being on this planet. Reality is not an entity by itself and it´s not directly affected by beliefs.

The only way a belief can affect reality, is if you put that belief to practice, bringing it from the realm of the imagination, to the realm of reality ( eg: a person believes he wont be damaged by a bullet because he´s wearing a bullet proof vest).

Cheers,

Raf.

The "information wars" are dying down. The "Belief Wars" are just beginning. Why is a "belief war" happening anyway? Like, who cares, right? Add conscious creation influenced by belief into the mix and things start to make sense .... but you have to understand how each human adds an exponential element, while some degree of "reality bending" is innate in each human, it is the masses of humans with the same belief that do the heavy lifting.

On an individual level, consider the "placebo affect". This is very real and dictates "validity" of drugs and medicine. A placebo is about 40% - 50% effective (as only a belief - the drug is a sugar pill). In order for the FDA to consider, a drug just has to be better than the "placebo affect" -- this is why all drug trials are controlled against placebos- as opposed to no treatment. Think about all this for a serious minute.

EDit: heavily added to after initial post ... RMorgan re-check you "thanks" to ensure you still want it (not that you wouldn't - just my due diligence after the addition)

I heavily agree with what you initially stated, the "information war" is giving way to the "belief war", let me say this about that, this may sound painfully obvious and is somewhat a continuation of of Raf's eating the "tennis ball" example, so sorry once again not having an original thought by me technically. I have said this for years, and this part is my own original thought, I think, no matter what everyone believes, something will happen. This whole creating your own reality for me does not mean that whatever we "will" for ourselves and our future will happen individually and we'll all go out into a billion different directions. I acknowledge the possibility of that because I do believe in infinite possibilities to some degree. I think that whatever the future holds it will be somewhat of a collective future, and just because I think were all going to turn into sea sponges doesnt mean its going to happen. All I can do is keep on open mind, but still see what is going on in the world around me, another confusing thing at the moment is honestly who knows now a days what isn't disinformation, someone may, I don't, so for me it's real hard at the moment to "see" whats going on, it's the first time in a few years, I've really struggled with what the "truth" may be, and I also acknowledge that just because I didn't struggle with the "truth" before does not mean that I wasn't believing lies then too.

[bearcow]

a ratings system where everyone has input will help to form a group consensus, and start to unify a sense of vision/purpose for the group.

this forum is already firmly established in the fringe beliefs of society, in some ways that is good, in some ways bad. My experiences, for example, are beyond what the average avalonian would be willing or should be willing to accept as iron clad truth. I see this as healthy, as each individual should slowly build their world view based on direct experience and not the musings of others. However, the experiences/research of others help us to fill in the gaps and create correlations based upon our own experiences. A ratings system acts as a barometer to gauge the overall perspective of the forums world view. This would be helpful to those members just starting out, and to the multitude of non-members who come to this site looking for a reliable venue for fringe beliefs.

[DeDukshyn]

...

I heavily agree with what you initially stated, the "information war" is giving way to the "belief war", let me say this about that, this may sound painfully obvious and is somewhat a continuation of of Raf's eating the "tennis ball" example, so sorry once again not having an original thought by me technically. I have said this for years, and this part is my own original thought, I think, no matter what everyone believes, something will happen. This whole creating your own reality for me does not mean that whatever we "will" for ourselves and our future will happen individually and we'll all go out into a billion different directions. I acknowledge the possibility of that because I do believe in infinite possibilities to some degree. I think that whatever the future holds it will be somewhat of a collective future, and just because I think were all going to turn into sea sponges doesnt mean its going to happen. All I can do is keep on open mind, but still see what is going on in the world around me, another confusing thing at the moment is honestly who knows now a days what isn't disinformation, someone may, I don't, so for me it's real hard at the moment to "see" whats going on, it's the first time in a few years, I've really struggled with what the "truth" may be, and I also acknowledge that just because I didn't struggle with the "truth" before does not mean that I wasn't believing lies then too.

Thanks for your words. I think what is needed at this particular breaking point may be to be not so concerned with "others" truths, and be more concerned with your immediate ones that you can extend from your present moment. There is no rule that says you have to "believe this or believe the opposite". I believe that is a game humans get caught up in.

I have a personal philosophy I try to follow: Believe nothing, consider everything.

Keep in mind not what you "see" but what you wish to create. Attention has a tendency to cause manifestation.

My 2 cents ;)

[RUSirius]

I like the idea of a forum "barometer" for me however my barometer is through reading threads and finding where my thoughts align or dis-align with others, takes a lot of work though. Is my barometer accurate?

[DeDukshyn]

I like the idea of a forum "barometer" for me however my barometer is through reading threads and finding where my thoughts align or dis-align with others, takes a lot of work though. Is my barometer accurate?

In my opinion - as long as you keep what you are doing in consideration of believing nothing, considering everything, and keep track of a "confidence scale" on each consideration, you'll "learn" for lack of a better word, faster and more accurately. Just my 2 cents ;)

[RUSirius]

I like the idea of a forum "barometer" for me however my barometer is through reading threads and finding where my thoughts align or dis-align with others, takes a lot of work though. Is my barometer accurate?

In my opinion - as long as you keep what you are doing in consideration of believing nothing, considering everything, and keep track of a "confidence scale" on each consideration, you'll "learn" for lack of a better word, faster and more accurately. Just my 2 cents ;)

I think that is very well stated, I can check off a couple of those right now, however the "confidence scale" has been wavering lately.

[DeDukshyn]

I'd suggest to anyone, watch at least this first video in this thread (all three are amazingly synergistic if you have the time!). pay attention to where the term "probability" comes up. I feel we need to keep these perspectives somewhere in mind as we try to determine "Truth". Again, just my 2 cents ;)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46271-DEEPAK-CHOPRA-Revisited-rebooting-focus (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46271-DEEPAK-CHOPRA-Revisited-rebooting-focus&p=505246)http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46271-DEEPAK-CHOPRA-Revisited-rebooting-focus

[RMorgan]

On an individual level, consider the "placebo affect". This is very real and dictates "validity" of drugs and medicine. A placebo is about 40% - 50% effective (as only a belief - the drug is a sugar pill). In order for the FDA to consider, a drug just has to be better than the "placebo affect" -- this is why all drug trials are controlled against placebos- as opposed to no treatment. Think about all this for a serious minute.

Also, another thing to consider, continuing with the tennis ball metaphor, is that a good hypnotist can hypnotize a person and convince him that the ball is a tomato, to a point where the person will actually eat the tennis ball and love its taste.

Of course, it doesn´t change reality. The tennis ball wouldn´t be properly digested and no nutrients would be absorbed.

So, even if the person is lead to completely believe that the tennis ball is a tomato, it wouldn´t change the the actual properties of the ball.

Even considering the placebo effect triggered by this experiment, that person would definitively die, if he continues on the tennis ball diet for an extended period of time.

In the end, the only thing that will be changed is the hypnotized person´s perspective over reality, but the reality itself will remain immaculate.

Of course, besides all the "hypnotists" out there, there are also the illusionists.

The illusionists can magically convert a tennis ball into a beautiful tomato and convince a lot of people that he´s a miraculous man.

However, just a few persons will notice that it´s just a trick, with no actual substance and no actual magic.

If he´s a pretty good illusionist, he would convince many persons, until they eventually become his followers.

Then, those few persons who perceived it was just a trick, would have a very hard time convincing his followers that he´s just an illusionist, because it´s much easier to fool people then to convince then they have been fooled.

That´s life folks...It´s full of "hypnotists" and "illusionists" out there and there´s a really large audience who is ready to instantly follow them.

Nowadays, I´d rather trust the integrity of information spoken by the mouth of a humble fisherman, than trusting the information from patchwork minded pseudo-intellectuals or limelight loving pseudo-spiritual gurus.

The good things is that, some people are actually immune to hypnosis.

Some other folks in the middle of the large audience, can always spot the illusionist´s tricks as well.

I´ve met just a few of these pretty rare folks during my life and I´ve learned a lot from them.

Cheers,

Raf.

[DeDukshyn]

That was quite well said, RMorgan. In fact my reason for posting the link above, was to emphasize this very thing. We are mass hypnotized to believe that things are what they are not, and although we can react to them as though they were the illusion, in the end, its not a tomato or a tennis ball (or a spoon?). Exact same story - just a different scale. My opinion, give it some thought, though ;)

In my two cents, this truth makes much of the bickering and "believing in ufo's, aliens, wlicocks, witches" or "not believing in .... " completely pointless. There's larger things to be learned about. But then again, - I'm one of those ultra curious types that always needs to understand on a "deeper" level. Maybe just me ;)

[Delight]

16876
All I have to add to this (the OP) ... is this:

For those of you who have eyes to see what is to come - or see the potential, the truth of what humanity is, do not let that distract you from the work that needs to be done to get us to the point of this full realization.

One more thing ... (and I catch myself doing this a lot) -- we give TPTW waaay too much credit. ;) (so easy to be a "victim" isn't it?)

My 2 cents ;)

I have to admit that I keep forgetting that what i send out boomerangs and looks like it came from somewhere other than my own focus of attention. I have been having a great deal of happy incidents lately that I am certain have been BECAUSE I have not been thinking about problems and the need for somehing. My mind needs reinforcement. In that ligt, I have been reading all the English translations of Vadim Zeland's "Reality Transurfing" which has some great stuff. On another forum I found an ongoing thread that lists the principles. I took the info and made a pdf that I want to share. It's got a very practical bent. If we can corral our thoughts to only the horses we want to ride, have faith and patience to work on our own material as the Universe is a mirror of our basic vibration and gives us back what we give out AND stop looking at all the BS and tune into the BE, we're much more likely to enjoy our stay in this realm....

[DeDukshyn]

Some of that also mirrors quite accurately 1500+ year old Toltec wisdom (though a vastly simplified version) as expressed by don Miguel Ruiz in the book "The Four Agreements" (and others). Thanks!

[eileenrose]

I did once have a sense about this:

re: "Same with the greys (tall and small). Come on."


I still not clear about who they are. My visual on them was their were human types that are on a different path that ours (evolutionary speaking). That is all.

[markpierre]

If you'll do this simple thing;

Concentrate all of your need for discernment on yourself, and your own thoughts and activities.
Your own communications and your reactions. You're motives and desires for outcomes.

Take full responsibility for your own thoughts and effects, and be willing to be wrong and correctable.
Correction is your greatest achievement, and includes the joy of discovering where you were wrong.

If you perfect your own integrity as much as you possibly can, you'll discover that discerning the truth from without is very nearly irrelevant.
Truth is true regardless of appearances and contingencies, and your guide becomes the truth of yourself.

If you know with full confidence that you can fully rely on yourself to only will to do the 'right thing', or line up with the truth,
the truth will line up with you. Because it always has.
It can't and never could have abandoned you. You had joined in with deception in a thousand small and subtle ways.
and you became untrue and controllable by deception.

Strangely the real truth in any situation is seldom discernible except in retrospect, when all the factors have been counted.
You will never again need to pick 'truth' from among options. Untrue agendas can't touch you. That's what 'evil' is, a lie disguised as true.
You just be yourself, 'the truth' and that's enough.
The only thing that was missing.

It's in you, it's not 'out there'.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hey mate,

As our friend, the vast mystery said, we all share different perspectives over reality, but we live in a single reality which is shared by everyone on this planet.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36533449@N02/3550534660/

This is a link to an article regarding the physical phenomenon surrounding the condition known as Dissociative Identity Disorder, or multiple personality disorder. I don't personally think of it as a disorder, but I don't want to digress off point.

One of the things that seriously disturbs researchers of this condition is the constant physical evidence that comes up regarding the shifting in the body that happens when personalities shift. There have been instances where one personality was full of cancer; another would shift in and the body was utterly clean of cancer. Height, weight, eye color, EEG changes, biological markers for identity- although I haven't found any studies that have checked for retina and other changes, all of these things shift between personalities. Yet many argue that it's all in the mind of the individual, even if they can't figure out which 'individual' it's supposed to be.

You say we're living in a single reality. These individuals demonstrate a reality outside the agreed single reality, to the point where researchers refuse sometimes to publish their data because it's so outside the accepted reality. So which reality are you referring to- the consensus reality, or a reality that is far slidier, slipperier and plastic than is consensually agreed to?


This "mind over matter" concept is fascinating but it´s not very practical.

Unless you're a multiple personality OR someone who has figured out the pathways that are being used in this condition, perhaps?


Just like, no matter how much you believe you can fly, if you jump from the top of a building, you´ll probably die.

Perhaps belief isn't the mechanism for achieving such a thing.


Ask the native americans if they believed on the existence of the first European settlers; they didn´t, in fact, they didn´t even suspect about their existence. Well, believing or not, it didn´t stop the Europeans to decimate them.

Actually, both certain Native American and Australian Indigenous tribes were very familiar with white Beings, which is why they were greeted with welcome and support. Just took them awhile to discover they were dealing with different white Beings.


Reality is made of common rules and facts

ah, so we *are* discussing consensus reality. Ok.


that are experienced by every being on this planet.

such as the world is flat, until it wasn't? Or the Newtonian basis of the universe, until it wasn't? Or-


Reality is not an entity by itself and it´s not directly affected by beliefs.

the reality of the x-rays say that the cancer is incurable, and he's sent home to die. He meditates in a motel room for a week, goes back to the doctors and they can't find a single trace of cancer in his body. His name is Ian Gawler, and this happens *after* they remove his leg.

So who has a bead on 'reality'?


The only way a belief can affect reality, is if you put that belief to practice, bringing it from the realm of the imagination, to the realm of reality ( eg: a person believes he wont be damaged by a bullet because he´s wearing a bullet proof vest).

Or because the individual finds a pathway that nobody else has found?

Hmm...

[markpierre]

Hey mate,

As our friend, the vast mystery said, we all share different perspectives over reality, but we live in a single reality which is shared by everyone on this planet.

For instance, if something happens on Fukushima, that makes its nuclear disaster even worse, the whole world would feel the consequences, independently if you believe in radioactivity or not.

As another example, if someones shoot you with a gun, independently if you believe in guns or not, you´ll get hurt or die.

This "mind over matter" concept is fascinating but it´s not very practical.

If you pick up a tennis ball and deny with all your strength that it´s a tennis ball, while at the same time, affirming it´s a delicious tomato, you may even try to eat it, but I´m sure it wont taste good.

Just like, no matter how much you believe you can fly, if you jump from the top of a building, you´ll probably die.

So yes, our beliefs influence our lives; they may lead us to change the way we perceive reality but, no matter how much you deny, there´s an overwhelmingly huge group of external elements which act directly upon us.

Ask the native americans if they believed on the existence of the first European settlers; they didn´t, in fact, they didn´t even suspect about their existence. Well, believing or not, it didn´t stop the Europeans to decimate them.

Reality is made of common rules and facts, that are experienced by every being on this planet. Reality is not an entity by itself and it´s not directly affected by beliefs.

The only way a belief can affect reality, is if you put that belief to practice, bringing it from the realm of the imagination, to the realm of reality ( eg: a person believes he wont be damaged by a bullet because he´s wearing a bullet proof vest).

Cheers,

Raf.

What if you can only see as much as you can allow yourself to believe in? I know that that's a fact.

[RMorgan]

What if you can only see as much as you can allow yourself to believe in? I know that that's a fact.


Hey mate,

Well, It´s not a rule, but it happens.

As an example, not all people who believe in ghosts will actually see ghosts, but some people who don´t believe in ghosts may eventually see a ghost even without believing.

Anyway, what a person sees is only relative to the observer´s perspective over reality, which doesn´t mean it changes reality because it just changes the observer´s perspective.

Personally, I´ve seen many unusual things, some that were previously part of my belief system and some that weren´t.

What did this change over reality? Nothing.

It just changed my perceptive qualities and made me a more curious and open minded investigator of the life phenomenon.

Of course, to discuss this subject, we must first define what is reality.

As I really love philosophy, I use the philosophic definition of reality, which is, basically:

-something that exists independently of ideas concerning it.

-something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.

By this definition, as an example, if the human race is suddenly extinguished from this planet, the planet will continue to exist, independently is there´s a human to observe it or not.

Your house, chairs, tables, bed and anything else will continue to exist, independently if you´re there to believe they exist.

Now, for personal views and personal beliefs, let´s say for instance that a person, Jimmy, sees the world in a way the he perceives all things are made of marshmallow.

It might look real for him but, when Jimmy dies, this marshmallow world will be gone and, what´s left will be reality, which is something that exists independently of ideas concerning it, independently from the observer´s points of view, beliefs, dogmas and perspectives.

It´s really nice to talk about this subject! I really like it! :)

Cheers,

Raf.

[DeDukshyn]

It might look real for him but, when Jimmy dies, this marshmallow world will be gone and, what´s left will be reality, which is something that exists independently of ideas concerning it, independently from the observer´s points of view, beliefs, dogmas and perspectives.

It´s really nice to talk about this subject! I really like it!

Consider this as well Raf ... If everyone believes in a marshmallow world, then it is a marshmallow world as far as everyone is concerned. "Reality" is created by perspective of the individual realities, brought into harmony by "agreements". What we call "reality" is our agreements to have this reality shared (but keep in mind much of this is subconscious). This "reality" does not exist on its own (as we know it), but is created by each observer and all the agreements ("knowledge"), we have agreed to agree upon. Dig a little deeper into the quantum physics end of reality, it starts to become more clear (but at the same, time less so ;-)

My 2 cents ;), and yes agreed it is a fun topic to explore and discuss ;)

[RMorgan]

It might look real for him but, when Jimmy dies, this marshmallow world will be gone and, what´s left will be reality, which is something that exists independently of ideas concerning it, independently from the observer´s points of view, beliefs, dogmas and perspectives.

It´s really nice to talk about this subject! I really like it!

Consider this as well Raf ... If everyone believes in a marshmallow world, then it is a marshmallow world as far as everyone is concerned. "Reality" is created by perspective of the individual realities, brought into harmony by "agreements". What we call "reality" is our agreements to have this reality shared (but keep in mind much of this is subconscious). This "reality" does not exist on its own (as we know it), but is created by each observer and all the agreements ("knowledge"), we have agreed to agree upon. Dig a little deeper into the quantum physics end of reality, it starts to become more clear (but at the same, time less so ;-)

My 2 cents ;), and yes agreed it is a fun topic to explore and discuss ;)

Hey mate,

Personally, I disagree, because independently if Jimmy believes he lives in a marshmallow world, if he decides to eat some rocks, believing they are marshmallows, he will break his teeth! :)

I´d rather analyze the world from the philosophic perspective mostly because philosophy is around for thousands of years and has accumulated a huge amount of brilliant theories.

Also, philosophy is a tool that literally anyone can use, differently from quantum physics which depends on a huge amount of pre-required knowledge, including at a least a degree in Physics.

In fact, quantum physics is such a new knowledge field that even the most brilliant physicists often can´t agree about some of its precepts.

I personally think that it will take a long time for quantum physics to reach a real solid point, specially while quantum mechanics, which is the branch of quantum physics that accounts for matter at the atomic level; an extension of statistical mechanics based on quantum theory (especially the Pauli exclusion principle), remains so metaphysical.

We can´t even properly observe the atoms themselves, just theorize about them based on their behavior in experiences made under very controlled environments and situations.

Now, philosophy, has some very well established concepts that were achieved by a continued observation of life during centuries, by a lot of different super brilliant persons, from different cultures, different times and different backgrounds.

Anyway, anyone is free to approach the observation of the same phenomenon using different tools, but if one decides to use quantum physics, it´s better to be sure he really understands its concepts, which is almost impossible right now, since even the most prolific physicists are still intrigued by it.

For any discussion to be fruitful, all sides must use the tools they have, are extremely comfortable with and/or have a solid knowledge base about them. If one use a tool he would just like to have, or have just a vague idea about its core concepts, then it´s very unlikely for him to achieve a minimum level of accuracy in his conclusions.

Cheers,

Raf.

[DeDukshyn]

For any discussion to be fruitful, all sides must use the tools they have, are extremely comfortable with and/or have a solid knowledge base about them. If one use a tool he would just like to have, or have just a vague idea about its core concepts, then it´s very unlikely for him to achieve a minimum level of accuracy in his conclusions.

Actually, to expand on this, for any discussion to be fruitful on that topic both the listener and the speaker need some of this knowledge. If only the speaker has this knowledge, often the message falls on deaf ears (dependent on the understanding / knowledge differential), this is why one must "dig" into quantum physics, it takes an entirely new perspective to understand what happens between the atomic and subatomic worlds. It can not be "presented" it must be "understood" and that requires the understanding of the listener.

This is where videos like the ones linked to by me back there have their play (I bet you are avoiding those ;-). I don't know if you saw my post about about "person A" and "Person B" on another thread but this is a real problem in the quest for truth and the advancement of humanity. TPTB use this exact thing to put as much distance between what they do, their technology, and the masses. Where at a point it becomes "self regulating" by the masses. We need to watch for this and research on our own without trying to "fit" it into a preexisting paradigm that dictates what is acceptable thought/considerations and what is not.. A little off the point but the example is below:


Person A: A highly educated scientist, who is working in the field of quantum physics. Discovers the close connection between conscious intent and matter in action. Basically it is concluded that consciousness affects everything. It is not understood fully, but it is clearly a real affect that can be repeated in laboratory results.

Person B: not that smart. has been programmed to believe that consciousness cannot affect matter, very rigid programming. Hears person A telling him that conscious intent affects all matter, and tells him it is bunk.

Person A tries to explain the concepts and how he was able to come the realization of this truth. Person B cannot grasp any of it whatsoever, even looking at person A's evidence, as he is not in situation to even be able to understand.

Person B then thinks that person A is being mind controlled to believe some delusion and shouts it out to everyone quickly, starts playing some stupid game, to distract from the true revelation, of the discovery of value, so as not to seem "wrong" or "stupid".

[Delight]

For any discussion to be fruitful, all sides must use the tools they have, are extremely comfortable with and/or have a solid knowledge base about them. If one use a tool he would just like to have, or have just a vague idea about its core concepts, then it´s very unlikely for him to achieve a minimum level of accuracy in his conclusions.

Actually, to expand on this, for any discussion to be fruitful on that topic both the listener and the speaker need some of this knowledge. If only the speaker has this knowledge, often the message falls on deaf ears (dependent on the understanding / knowledge differential), this is why one must "dig" into quantum physics, it takes an entirely new perspective to understand what happens between the atomic and subatomic worlds. It can not be "presented" it must be "understood" and that requires the understanding of the listener.

This is where videos like the ones linked to by me back there have their play (I bet you are avoiding those ;-). I don't know if you saw my post about about "person A" and "Person B" on another thread but this is a real problem in the quest for truth and the advancement of humanity. TPTB use this exact thing to put as much distance between what they do, their technology, and the masses. Where at a point it becomes "self regulating" by the masses. We need to watch for this and research on our own without trying to "fit" it into a preexisting paradigm that dictates what is acceptable thought/considerations and what is not.. A little off the point but the example is below:


Person A: A highly educated scientist, who is working in the field of quantum physics. Discovers the close connection between conscious intent and matter in action. Basically it is concluded that consciousness affects everything. It is not understood fully, but it is clearly a real affect that can be repeated in laboratory results.

Person B: not that smart. has been programmed to believe that consciousness cannot affect matter, very rigid programming. Hears person A telling him that conscious intent affects all matter, and tells him it is bunk.

Person A tries to explain the concepts and how he was able to come the realization of this truth. Person B cannot grasp any of it whatsoever, even looking at person A's evidence, as he is not in situation to even be able to understand.

Person B then thinks that person A is being mind controlled to believe some delusion and shouts it out to everyone quickly, starts playing some stupid game, to distract from the true revelation, of the discovery of value, so as not to seem "wrong" or "stupid".

In a funny sort of way, I believe today that Project Avalon and all media exists only to give us a chance to see more of what we are already thinking. I was off line for a couple of weeks and when I came back, all I see are these posts titled a "Reminder" and news that Jorr is no longer with us (and I really felt Jorr).

If it is true that this is a dream, and we may be conscious dreamers, there is no one to educate. There is a dream structure however to navigate. And to this end, the Toltecs, the Gnostics, Vadim Zeland (calling them Pendulums) and many others say there is a kind of AI that we can be a enslaved BY or turn away from...not fight, not change, not anything that goes along with many of the current memes of Resistance.

If I look in the mirror and see a red eyed fanged monster breathing fire and I die of fright...well, there is always next time. If I know I am looking in the mirror and then smile, firts the visage looks much less scary and then if I see that the fangs and the red eyeballs and everything are mask ornaments, I can take off the mask.

The dream has a format that masters have utilized rather than been taken over by.

No one will make me believe I am not able to do the same. But its a tricky business because if I begin to even give THIS importance, I am caught in the threads there too. OhJoy to court consciousness and know tht there is all the time in the Universe to master the dream.
My indian head penny. Maggie

[DeDukshyn]

Interesting post Delight, it made me think a little deeper than most other posts ever do. You are always good for that ;)

In my opinion all is about the expansion of consciousness. This is different from defining "true" and "false" -- I give that far less value, as I see it trumped in importance to the human race by the processes of expansion or contraction of consciousness. A more expanded consciousness has a far greater perspective of its environment and inputs, therefore less "blinded" and more able to act fully on its on choices rather than "decisions" forced by fear, (the contraction of consciousness). In the discovery of "truth" people look for facts to find it. I look for expanded consciousness. I seek to expand the consciousness of others so that they may not "believe" or be programmed by anything anyone tells them, but rather be able to have a large and detailed enough view that they can function without any reliance on "others" info.

Telling someone a truth has value, teaching them how they can always find truth for themselves is priceless. My 2 cents ;)

Maybe what I see as my role is different from many.

[the_vast_mystery]

Hey mate,

As our friend, the vast mystery said, we all share different perspectives over reality, but we live in a single reality which is shared by everyone on this planet.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36533449@N02/3550534660/

This is a link to an article regarding the physical phenomenon surrounding the condition known as Dissociative Identity Disorder, or multiple personality disorder. I don't personally think of it as a disorder, but I don't want to digress off point.

One of the things that seriously disturbs researchers of this condition is the constant physical evidence that comes up regarding the shifting in the body that happens when personalities shift. There have been instances where one personality was full of cancer; another would shift in and the body was utterly clean of cancer. Height, weight, eye color, EEG changes, biological markers for identity- although I haven't found any studies that have checked for retina and other changes, all of these things shift between personalities. Yet many argue that it's all in the mind of the individual, even if they can't figure out which 'individual' it's supposed to be.

You say we're living in a single reality. These individuals demonstrate a reality outside the agreed single reality, to the point where researchers refuse sometimes to publish their data because it's so outside the accepted reality. So which reality are you referring to- the consensus reality, or a reality that is far slidier, slipperier and plastic than is consensually agreed to?


This "mind over matter" concept is fascinating but it´s not very practical.

Unless you're a multiple personality OR someone who has figured out the pathways that are being used in this condition, perhaps?


Just like, no matter how much you believe you can fly, if you jump from the top of a building, you´ll probably die.

Perhaps belief isn't the mechanism for achieving such a thing.


Ask the native americans if they believed on the existence of the first European settlers; they didn´t, in fact, they didn´t even suspect about their existence. Well, believing or not, it didn´t stop the Europeans to decimate them.

Actually, both certain Native American and Australian Indigenous tribes were very familiar with white Beings, which is why they were greeted with welcome and support. Just took them awhile to discover they were dealing with different white Beings.


Reality is made of common rules and facts

ah, so we *are* discussing consensus reality. Ok.


that are experienced by every being on this planet.

such as the world is flat, until it wasn't? Or the Newtonian basis of the universe, until it wasn't? Or-


Reality is not an entity by itself and it´s not directly affected by beliefs.

the reality of the x-rays say that the cancer is incurable, and he's sent home to die. He meditates in a motel room for a week, goes back to the doctors and they can't find a single trace of cancer in his body. His name is Ian Gawler, and this happens *after* they remove his leg.

So who has a bead on 'reality'?


The only way a belief can affect reality, is if you put that belief to practice, bringing it from the realm of the imagination, to the realm of reality ( eg: a person believes he wont be damaged by a bullet because he´s wearing a bullet proof vest).

Or because the individual finds a pathway that nobody else has found?

Hmm...

Thank you! I'm going to do some research now on DID. This could prove to be quite important, appreciate it. :)
Also, historically most cultures knew the Earth was round. Some people did believe the earth was flat, but it's a bit of a stretch to say it was actually as widespread as one might've been led to believe.

Anyhow, in response to the rest: I'll certainly concede to the possibility, until material is developed so as to make such results practically accessible to others then it's almost no different than if these things didn't exist. Because if we can't really observe or replicate such results than nailing down exactly what is causing them is kind of hard and if we can't nail down how the person is doing what they're doing (and are therefore unable to assign cause) then there's not even any useful way to respond to it other than to say "Well that's odd" and suddenly move on. If we want to say that thought, or belief affects reality we need to demonstrate fully the mechanism through which this happens so that others can actually put it into practice and begin creating reality how they want.

If we can't yet explain how to duplicate the process, it seems to be putting the cart before the horse to claim we alone carry responsibility for our reality. That's why I guess I tend to come down a little hard lately on people saying such things. I immediately think to myself "Okay, now what? Show me how?" and so far none of the methods I've really tried have done anything I really wanted (I ask for drastic changes, otherwise I'd never notice the difference, LOL.) I just tend to think that in a lot of cases the "Belief creates reality" while it might on some level be true has been hijacked more by people attempting to blame-shift and put all of the responsibility for suffering onto the sufferer rather than the situations that created the suffering by taunting the sufferer with "Well if you really wanted you could change this!" which might also on some level be true as well, but still is of no practical use to the person under duress and therefore does not exactly equip them with the necessary tools to end their suffering.

[DeDukshyn]

But we can shift our perspectives to stop putting so much emphasis on the "physical reality" (and more on fellowship, friendship, problem solving, love, sharing, etc). This currently accepted emphasis on our spoon fed (on all levels) "reality", causes us undue suffering, no?

It took me 15 years of "trying", research and study to be able to understand "conscious manifestation" and utilize it. Because it has to be felt on an experiential level. There are no words to convey the process accurately, language does not have this ability - any words to convey certain aspects, and unfortunately, due to linguistically structured thought that is programmed into all humans, you can't think about it either (although those who can "think" in energy or visuals - you are a step ahead). Keep searching, that intent will bring you the answers you seek. I think so anyway; it worked for me. just my 2 cents ;)

[Delight]

Interesting post Delight, it made me think a little deeper than most other posts ever do. You are always good for that ;)

In my opinion all is about the expansion of consciousness. This is different from defining "true" and "false" -- I give that far less value, as I see it trumped in importance to the human race by the processes of expansion or contraction of consciousness. A more expanded consciousness has a far greater perspective of its environment and inputs, therefore less "blinded" and more able to act fully on its on choices rather than "decisions" forced by fear, (the contraction of consciousness). In the discovery of "truth" people look for facts to find it. I look for expanded consciousness. I seek to expand the consciousness of others so that they may not "believe" or be programmed by anything anyone tells them, but rather be able to have a large and detailed enough view that they can function without any reliance on "others" info.

Telling someone a truth has value, teaching them how they can always find truth for themselves is priceless. My 2 cents ;)

Maybe what I see as my role is different from many.

I appreciate your responses which also make me think more. I am going to go with my expectation for a stream of consciousness that I asked to inform me, If it wants to tell me something. I will assume it asks me to listen by displaying selective bits of information. That is the true teacher to me and your voice may be its means too.

Apparently there is polarity to enable us to even make out a picture. So consciousness will appear to expand and contract and the nondualists will get to some point where they just sit in Zen but others are involved in some other activity and based on what I understand, all roads lead to the same Source and we pass along in our vehicles. This is why I am just not bothered by the fear something I experience can hurt me. My one solid contribution right now for my own self is feeling I am immune to poisons and that only good can reach me. But I cannot recommend this path as I have not proven it works. So far so good as the man fell passing floor 22 of 150 stories. But I sincerely believe this now.

In my humorous upside down world, most everyone I notice seem more conscious of a valuable message to deliver than I hear. They are all great teachers, mystics and adventurers. They seem to have an elegant "where with all" to write books and lead others to some "truth" and tour exotic places. Everyone I pay attention to seems wise. Seriously.

So obviously we all have different "dreams" (hehe). But it must be that consciousness IS and what to do about its existence may well be arbitrary. This is my last penny here. Thanks for the chance to spend it. Maggie

[DeDukshyn]

As always, well said ;)

[peace]

and my faith in the interwebz is restored.

great discussion!!:hail:

[peace]

I did once have a sense about this:

re: "Same with the greys (tall and small). Come on."


I still not clear about who they are. My visual on them was their were human types that are on a different path that ours (evolutionary speaking). That is all.

it's all over the place (not saying any of these are true/false, per the OP, obviously, but some of the emerging ideas are:
1. One idea is shorter greys were created by taller greys as a sort of bio engineered robot to serve the talls. most abduction encounters recount the actual experience beginning with the small greys committing the abduction and doing some of the examining, with the talls serving as oversight in the 'operating room,' sort of conducting things.
2. Short/Tall/Human: Anthony Sanchez's material alleges we are a result of tall/short intermingling with early hominids, creating modern man. (Which also happens to jive with the 2012, Sintchin, Ancient Aliens type material that REFUSES TO GIVE CREDIT THAT HUMANS ARE SMART, CAPABLE, INDEPENDENT creatures that can accomplish much, but i digress)
3. Bruisch says it's humans from two seprate points in the future, claiming the alleged Roswell aliens were, basically us.

again, these are the main ideas. lazar claims they were from zeta reticuli. funny as bruisch claims they are from here. both claim to work at s4/papoose lake/dreamland/area 51. both have SKETCHY, unverifiable backgrounds.

we are just fed these things, expected to believe them and HOPE we aren't wasting our time. in years of following and reading the material, i've found most of this has been a bit of a waste of time.

until in february, i looked up in the night sky and saw a low flying, big, black triangle. that is what i know. and what i know isn't much. proves nothing of greys, reptillians, nwo, etc., etc.

tired of being duped, i suppose.

final note:
greer: all et's are good.
wilcock: some et's are here to help, some are great, others are horrible.
bruisch: i worked to save them and ultimately mankind.
collier: i've met them, some are my best friends. reptilians will eat your baby.

NOT one of them can bring you proof. all, 'trust me,' and i'm the sole contact, and i have data, but can't disclose (except maybe greer's early, early work - i should give credit where it's due).

steven hawking: if they come here, we'll be dead before we can ever point a weapon in their direction.

who do you think has the credentials to speak on the matter?

[markpierre]

-something that exists independently of ideas concerning it.

-something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.

By this definition, as an example, if the human race is suddenly extinguished from this planet, the planet will continue to exist, independently is there´s a human to observe it or not.

Raf.

That's all reasonable Raf, I appreciate that definition and your interpretation of it.
But i didn't say what's possible to believe, I said what you'll allow.
It has more to do with fear than with reasoning.

What I know is that there's a real world directly in your line of vision, upon which is superimposed what all teachings from all true Masters call illusion.
The world you see, which is merely the world you think you see. You trust your eyes and ears and reasoning, unless you withdraw your belief in them.
There are senses more dependable than your eyes and your imagination.

Whatever you associate within your thinking seen or unseen, must certainly at least be among your beliefs. What of all the unconscious associations?
And superconscious associations? Are they real or unreal, whether they're known or unknown? To whom? Are you autonomous in your mind? That's the only place you can be aware of, that anything at all can occur.

One thing is certain, reality does not depend on your belief in it. But your experience of it does. Can you allow that? Can you allow for everything you consciously associate with to be entirely untrue, which is the same as unreal. Is it reasonable to suggest that nothing untrue is real?
Beliefs become suspicious by default.
Not that it isn't seemingly there, but that it isn't what or the way you believe it to be.
If you can interrupt somehow your need for anything you believe to be true, something else can occur. Something in the way your mind engages with itself.
What's actually there might be the most likely thing, but your beliefs protected you from it.

Ghosts? I've never seen one, but I've spoken with many. Simply discarnate minds.
Is seeing one 'proof' of anything? No.
Is speaking with one? No.
Does my experience with them influence my belief in them? Yes.
Does that prove them to be real?
No.
Do I need them to be real? That's up to me.
Can I allow for everything I believe in, earth-sky-bodies-spirit-life vs death, victim/perpetrator, love and fear, up and down to only exist in my own mind and nowhere else? Sure.
Does that make it all believable? If i say so. True? Only in that I say it is.
Is that just a decision? Yes, and I'm the only one who makes it.

[eileenrose]

I did once have a sense about this:

re: "Same with the greys (tall and small). Come on."


I still not clear about who they are. My visual on them was their were human types that are on a different path that ours (evolutionary speaking). That is all.

it's all over the place (not saying any of these are true/false, per the OP, obviously, but some of the emerging ideas are:
1. One idea is shorter greys were created by taller greys as a sort of bio engineered robot to serve the talls. most abduction encounters recount the actual experience beginning with the small greys committing the abduction and doing some of the examining, with the talls serving as oversight in the 'operating room,' sort of conducting things.
2. Short/Tall/Human: Anthony Sanchez's material alleges we are a result of tall/short intermingling with early hominids, creating modern man. (Which also happens to jive with the 2012, Sintchin, Ancient Aliens type material that REFUSES TO GIVE CREDIT THAT HUMANS ARE SMART, CAPABLE, INDEPENDENT creatures that can accomplish much, but i digress)
3. Bruisch says it's humans from two seprate points in the future, claiming the alleged Roswell aliens were, basically us.

again, these are the main ideas. lazar claims they were from zeta reticuli. funny as bruisch claims they are from here. both claim to work at s4/papoose lake/dreamland/area 51. both have SKETCHY, unverifiable backgrounds.

we are just fed these things, expected to believe them and HOPE we aren't wasting our time. in years of following and reading the material, i've found most of this has been a bit of a waste of time.

until in february, i looked up in the night sky and saw a low flying, big, black triangle. that is what i know. and what i know isn't much. proves nothing of greys, reptillians, nwo, etc., etc.

tired of being duped, i suppose.

final note:
greer: all et's are good.
wilcock: some et's are here to help, some are great, others are horrible.
bruisch: i worked to save them and ultimately mankind.
collier: i've met them, some are my best friends. reptilians will eat your baby.

NOT one of them can bring you proof. all, 'trust me,' and i'm the sole contact, and i have data, but can't disclose (except maybe greer's early, early work - i should give credit where it's due).

steven hawking: if they come here, we'll be dead before we can ever point a weapon in their direction.

who do you think has the credentials to speak on the matter?

You forgot Whitley Streiber of Unknown Country (website)...who is said to have met them. He resonates with me...the original story he told of his abduction(s). Very interesting tale. I found some inspiration in it (myself) and some truth, mix in with certain facts (he found out about them later from others). But still...pretty original (story). And I am not 100% sure which kind or how many kinds, he ran into. He mentions more than one type and different encounters, at different ages. I listened to an audio tape of the book (communion?? trying to recall its name).

[peace]

I'll check out Streiber, embarrasingly I'm ignorant to the info. Thanks!

[DeDukshyn]

... TRIM ...

You forgot Whitley Streiber of Unknown Country (website)...who is said to have met them. He resonates with me...the original story he told of his abduction(s). Very interesting tale. I found some inspiration in it (myself) and some truth, mix in with certain facts (he found out about them later from others). But still...pretty original (story). And I am not 100% sure which kind or how many kinds, he ran into. He mentions more than one type and different encounters, at different ages. I listened to an audio tape of the book (communion?? trying to recall its name).

Yes -- Communion. Wow that was an old memory completely erased somehow ... I saw the movie, almost bought the book. Not 100% sure, but ya that story was a bit of a shake-up in the ET arena at the time. Quickly forgotten I now realize ...