Possible reason why so many people believe in lies.

[humanalien]

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (King James Version)

9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them
that perish, because they received not the love of the truth,
that they might be saved.

11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that
they should believe a lie:

12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[Unified Serenity]

We are warned that the delusion will be so grand that even the very elect would be deceived if the days were not cut short from 7 years of tribulation to five and a half months. The greatest lie is the one that sounds so true. When I get near that kind of deception I have both a physical and spiritual reaction. How people can believe someone who speaks of great spiritual truths they learned from guides while in an extreme experience such as kundalini waking during a dark night of the soul brought on by personal soul wrenching loss is beyond me.

I listened to someone tonight who has the most beautiful spirit, sweetest voice, and very sincere heart and I felt as if my insides were being clawed out. Of course they believe what they are saying. They experienced something incredible, and believe the "guides" were speaking to them of great truths because they saw and felt it and it makes so much sense, but it's truly amazing to me that after listening for an hour or there about, the lie is slipped out there meant to target those who believe in Christ. Yes, by all means this NWO this beast system the ptb have been orchestrating for thousands of years is riding on the fact that people must turn away from what they once believed and embrace a different truth though using similar words. When they said that we are Christo forms meaning God connection in unity and oneness but that there is no crucified Christ and that is a lie meant to enslave mankind, I knew and felt the wounds spiritually so deeply that many are suffering who embrace this new religion of the God man / woman.

We are all one, and we are all divine created beings, but we are not God/dess, and we cannot throw away one of the greatest gifts ever given to us in the life of Messiah. You see, there is a great difference in reading about someone and believing in someone verses knowing them and meeting them. They will know you love me and follow me by the love you show one to another. What does it mean that you love your friends, even the evil ones do that. Nay, love your enemies and by this all men shall know you are my followers.... by the love you show one to another. Destroy that love, destroy that brotherhood, and you destroy the very foundation of spiritual truth. The truly sad thing is most will never see it. They will never realize it. They will sing and praise God crying Peace and there is no peace. In one final moment a truth so great will be revealed and they will weep and gnash their teeth, and wrend their garments for they will realize their folly. They will run to the one they love and believe they have served and say, we preached in your name, we cast out demons and healed in your name, and he will turn away from them and say, "Get away from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU." How can you know someone whom you deny their very existence of? My god, have you ever been in so much pain that your wept and gnashed your teeth? Have you ever been in that gut wrenching reality? I have and I never want to go there again. I felt it tonight in the sweet tone and words that were shared, but it was all a lie, and so many, dear God/dess so many are going to love this lie, it makes me sick.

hlWSQWnaz58

VHRboy_OAis

-8301604831947414925

[Maia Gabrial]

Look at how every aspect of our lives has been affected by TPTW. They've tried to kill our hopes dreams, and chances to live life. So, when they offer us "a better way" or a way out, we'll accept it faster than starving infants for their mother's milk.

[RUSirius]

I think we are at a point in time of serious mis-information, my simple mind says to me, if there werent something potentially good in all the awfulness/craziness there probably would not be a need to lie, deceive, misinform what ever you want to label it. In addition, it seems as if there is definitely a false hope campaign, not to say that good thing cant/wont happen, I think they will, but still a lot of false hope manufacturing.

[markpierre]

Look at how every aspect of our lives has been affected by TPTW. They've tried to kill our hopes dreams, and chances to live life. So, when they offer us "a better way" or a way out, we'll accept it faster than starving infants for their mother's milk.

For sure. And look at how every aspect of our lives include our own subtle exaggerations and manipulations and self delusion.
And accusations and excuses and blame,
just to have things our way with EVERYONE.
Or to justify ourselves as entitled to more than whoever has less,
including hopes and dreams.
Oh, and denial....that's a good one.
I think we bought into the paradigm of deception pretty fully.
I'd take that issue very personally.

[lyubomir]

Hello Everyone,

It looks like Freedom is best tool of people. But... if you think that you are free and in the meantime you with both legs in the matrix so everything works fine for someone.

Best Regards,

Lyubomir

[the_vast_mystery]

As long as your survival (not just physical, but the ability to access any and all of the things on Maslow's hierarchy of needs) depends on believing lies, people will believe in lies. People want to be happy and unfortunately that plus a short-sighted and emotional nature can easily lead anyone to swallowing up any lie that will justify their existence/behavior.

There's no use in telling people they believe in nonsense just because they're fossils that don't want to change, that never works. The only way I've seen so far to change an entrenched-belief (At least based on my own observations and introspection.) is to change the conditions that required the person to hold the old belief. (Which can be complex and individual.) But that would require an awful lot of work, possibly more than anyone is willing to put up with.

[markpierre]

There's no use in telling people they believe in nonsense just because they're fossils that don't want to change, that never works. The only way I've seen so far to change an entrenched-belief (At least based on my own observations and introspection.) is to change the conditions that required the person to hold the old belief. (Which can be complex and individual.) But that would require an awful lot of work, possibly more than anyone is willing to put up with.

Ha ha. Or an Armageddon.

Actually it's not funny.

[RedeZra]

when we see that the ptb

has debunked the Bible


and the alarm bells are not ringing

then how will we wake ?

[sdv]

As long as your survival (not just physical, but the ability to access any and all of the things on Maslow's hierarchy of needs) depends on believing lies, people will believe in lies. People want to be happy and unfortunately that plus a short-sighted and emotional nature can easily lead anyone to swallowing up any lie that will justify their existence/behavior.

There's no use in telling people they believe in nonsense just because they're fossils that don't want to change, that never works. The only way I've seen so far to change an entrenched-belief (At least based on my own observations and introspection.) is to change the conditions that required the person to hold the old belief. (Which can be complex and individual.) But that would require an awful lot of work, possibly more than anyone is willing to put up with.

Awesome wisdom in this post!

[kreagle]

when we see that the ptb

has debunked the Bible


and the alarm bells are not ringing

then how will we wake ?

RedeZra,

But the "alarm bells" are ringing,......loud and clear,....to those who have "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Scripture has said,...."

John 7:37-39
King James Version (KJV)

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Consequently,...because of this "upper room experience",...(the "same" experience the Apostles, Mary (Jesus' mother), and the rest of the "120" had as they were "born again"),.....we now have the "spiritual insight" to be "awake" and understand what's going on all around us in this wicked world!


John 16:12-14
King James Version (KJV)

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

RedeZra, on Feb. 22, 1981, at the age of 26 years old, I personally received the Holy Ghost,......"just like" they did on the Day of Pentecost! I, too, spoke in another language that I was not previously learned in.

Acts 2:4
King James Version (KJV)

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

It's because of this "spiritual infilling",....the act of being "born again",....that I am now able to perpetually have my personal "alarm clock" on at all times!!!

I don't have to worry about being caught,......"off guard"!

humanalien,

The "real reason" it's so easy for so many to believe a lie is because of the "absence" of what I have described above. You cannot live for God, successfully, without the presence of the Holy Ghost resident in your life!

Romans 8:8-10
King James Version (KJV)

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

And "last,....but not "least",......the Holy Ghost experience will be the "only hope" of being able to get "out of here", (this world),......and into the "hope of Glory",(Heaven).


Romans 8:11
King James Version (KJV)

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Without the infilling of the Holy Ghost,......your "alarm clock" will remain in the "off" position.

Without the infilling of the Holy Ghost,......you will believe the most "sinister" of lies.

Without the infilling of the Holy Ghost,......you're going to wind up "losing your ride out of here!"

BUT,.....it doesn't have to be that way!

Through God's Word,....."we all" have a "promise"!

Acts 2:37-39
King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Folks,.....God never lies,.....He always keeps His promises!

2 Corinthians 1:20
King James Version (KJV)

20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

It's time to,......"shut out the lies",........"have the alarm fully activated",......and......"to be ready to get out of here"

"Have you received the Holy Ghost,......since you believed?" Acts 19: 2

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[DeDukshyn]

You can't believe in any lies if you stop believing in "things" and start experiencing the present moment. Anyone who wishes to escape the lies needs to stop believing - believing requires a link to something external - considering and experiencing do not ... consider religion, yes. Believe it, no.

This is what God is asking of us (IMHO) - start living in the present - it will be the only way to escape the delusions of "beliefs"

BTW that biblical consideration of the OP -- a true gem with value!

[the_vast_mystery]

You can't believe in any lies if you stop believing in "things" and start experiencing the present moment. Anyone who wishes to escape the lies needs to stop believing - believing requires a link to something external - considering and experiencing do not ... consider religion, yes. Believe it, no.

This is what God is asking of us (IMHO) - start living in the present - it will be the only way to escape the delusions of "beliefs"

BTW that biblical consideration of the OP -- a true gem with value!

To truly be present in the moment (and not be absolutely miserable) for some of us literally requires having our minds erased of every other place we could be. (Basically destroy our entire imagination.) That's what it takes to be present and happy for some, and that is why beliefs are necessary. Anyone not willing to feel loathsome all the time needs something to justify their present existence which, by their own standards, is a miserable one.

[DeDukshyn]

"Imagination" happens in the present moment!!! ;) It is (as far as I know) nearly impossible to be miserable in the Present Moment ... thus if you are miserable ...

New definitions and distinctions are needed for these new times ;)

My 2 cents worth ;)

[the_vast_mystery]

Hah, I'd hardly call that being present but to each their own. I can walk for ten miles and never notice a thing because I'm existing entirely in my head. You could say I'm present in my imagination, but certainly not the world, LOL!

[DeDukshyn]

Hah, I'd hardly call that being present but to each their own. I can walk for ten miles and never notice a thing because I'm existing entirely in my head. You could say I'm present in my imagination, but certainly not the world, LOL!

Imagination is something new from the mind ... rehashing old thoughts for the egos sake are completely different - but may seem the same to most. I'll stand by my statement that new definitions and distinctions are required.

But I am not being antagonistic -- I mainly agreed with your post! ;)

[kreagle]

You can't believe in any lies if you stop believing in "things" and start experiencing the present moment. Anyone who wishes to escape the lies needs to stop believing - believing requires a link to something external - considering and experiencing do not ... consider religion, yes. Believe it, no.

This is what God is asking of us (IMHO) - start living in the present - it will be the only way to escape the delusions of "beliefs"

BTW that biblical consideration of the OP -- a true gem with value!

DeDukshyn,

I don't think you fully understand what you are saying here,.....in relation to the Sacred Word of God and the concept to "believe".

Mark 16:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

As I pointed out, in my previous post, the "Holy Ghost experience" will fully help you "identify" the many lies that Satan bombards humanity with on a daily basis, and then be able to take the proper evasive measures to avoid the lie before it becomes "embedded in our psyche".

#1) Believe the Scriptures,.......#2) Obey the "Gospel Message" Peter preached in Acts 2:38,.........#3) Receive the "promise",...the gift of the Holy Ghost,.....and you'll be well on your way to living a "victorious and overcoming life".

May God bless you abundantly,.......kreagle

[DeDukshyn]

I'm not sure I can explain ...

All "knowing" comes internally from God or Christ or Higher self - whichever label one wants to use for that. "God" sounds appropriate in your case. Our "reality" is an illusion .. and our sense of internal (and eternal) "Knowing" comes from within us by God. Our true and intended guidance system.

If this is true (and I believe it) .. tell me .. what do you need to believe? Only that Christ guidance in the Present Moment is what needs to be real. All else is a "belief".

So, do you want to "believe" something someone tells you? Or your God given intrinsic guidance system that occurs when one is grounded without reference to the guilt of the past or the anxiety of the future?

I read something recently that may fit here: I'll dig it out.

I don't know if this will add clarification or confusion ... but here's to trying ;) :tea:


What do
you call Satan? His body is the past, his breath, the
future. Energized by your past-oriented guilt and your
future-oriented fear, he follows you around like some vast
cosmic shadow. He casts his nets of fear on the waters of
your awareness, then draws them with ropes of reason,
back into a guilt-ridden past.
For the sake of illustration, your presence could be
compared to an inflatable membrane, designed to be filled to
the full with the energy and power of Life. Like two enormous
rips in the side, guilt and fear allow the precious
life-substance to escape, leaving you withered, ineffectual
and short-lived, all the' while, using your own life
substance to energize everything that you fear.
It is easy to reverse the situation. Let yourself die to
the past and wake up in the present moment. Why should
you hesitate? Are your past experiences really comprehensive
enough to provide a basis for understanding
everything you encounter in the present? Do they truly
deserve the authority and credibility that you give them?
How attentive were you to all the factors that were present
in the moment of their occurrence? If you are preoccupied
with "experience", how attentive will you be to
what is occurring in the moment?

Sorry - I messed up- you requested "In relationship to ..." ... I didn't do that .. let me look at all this again ...

[Lettherebelight]

The reason why so many believe in lies is because they are not really searching for the Truth. They have other motives propelling them toward an illusion. There are many reasons for this, a lot of them have to do with the false ego. And so there will be the Cheaters and the Cheated.

On the up side...

Those who seek Truth will be guided by the Inner Voice. There is no need to fear. But it does require making that connection.

As a reflexologist, we understand that all nerve endings terminate in the hands, feet and head. The body is a bio electric vehicle. When we clasp our hands together, the circuit (energy), is closed and directed inward, to the Self. Looping round, instead of dissipating energy outward. (I hope I have explained this ok).

When we put our hands together, we will experience that connection to the Self and Super Self (God). Then we will experience the Truth, according to our nature, and then, no one will be able to cheat us. It is 'a knowing'. No two people are identical, and so this 'knowing' may differ from one person to another, but that does not mean we cannot respect each other's Truths.

A good analogy is when a hungry man eats, he experiences satisfaction. No amount of argument will be able to convince him that he is still hungry.

It is a very good thread topic. Since the start of last year with the 'Charles' thing, people have realised how easy it is to be duped by charlatans and the material energy, and that includes myself.

I hope this isn't a tl;dr

Good luck to everyone on their path toward Truth. As our friend Jorr would say,
'All is well.'

[DeDukshyn]

I read the first sentence of your post LettherebeLight, and that was enough ... many would rather satisfy their programming than search for truth objectively. It is part of everyone's learning process, to get to the point of being "objective" even. My 2 cents.

[DeDukshyn]

... <snip> ...


Kreagle ... I took a look at everything again and really hard at the scripture you wrote.

Firstly, there is no context for me to grab from that about the word "belief" as it is intended in that script ... so I'm handicapped ... I'll make the safest assumption possible - The belief in Christ's teachings of Love and Forgiveness:

The word in that scripture is "belief". But that "belief" that is indicated there is the "belief" (I'm assuming as I have no context), that honoring forgiveness always, loving every moment from the heart, etc (as Jesus Preached) - is the proper way. Those concepts are all only available in the present moment - they are ways to shift you into the Present Moment. One cannot be "forgiving" yesterday. For love to have any "reality" whatsoever - it has to be in the present moment. "Don't worry, I'll love you tomorrow!" just doesn't work ;)

So I present that my message is pretty much the same, just expressed differently.

[ghostrider]

the church doesn't teach the truth, the masses believe the lies, easy to believe the lie , the truth hurts. The truth Jesus and God are the same person. Jesus (flesh) God (spirit) not two seperate God's but one and the same. flesh and spirit are one, father and son are one. the father loves the son, the spirit loves the flesh, replace Jesus with flesh and God with spirit, now you have the hidden mystery the straight gate and narrow way and few there be that find it. I and my father are one. the flesh and the spirit are one. the father in me , he doeth the works. the spirit of God became flesh. Low the kingdom of God is WITHIN you .

[Unified Serenity]

You can't believe in any lies if you stop believing in "things" and start experiencing the present moment. Anyone who wishes to escape the lies needs to stop believing - believing requires a link to something external - considering and experiencing do not ... consider religion, yes. Believe it, no.

This is what God is asking of us (IMHO) - start living in the present - it will be the only way to escape the delusions of "beliefs"

BTW that biblical consideration of the OP -- a true gem with value!

DeDukshyn,

I don't think you fully understand what you are saying here,.....in relation to the Sacred Word of God and the concept to "believe".

Mark 16:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

As I pointed out, in my previous post, the "Holy Ghost experience" will fully help you "identify" the many lies that Satan bombards humanity with on a daily basis, and then be able to take the proper evasive measures to avoid the lie before it becomes "embedded in our psyche".

#1) Believe the Scriptures,.......#2) Obey the "Gospel Message" Peter preached in Acts 2:38,.........#3) Receive the "promise",...the gift of the Holy Ghost,.....and you'll be well on your way to living a "victorious and overcoming life".

May God bless you abundantly,.......kreagle

I'm curious, what tongues did they speak as you understand it?

[ghostrider]

if I can jump in, speaking in tongues is the spirit speaking through you, the non-believers will hear a man of another country speaking their home language and know it has to be God working through them. It's also a heavenly language not understood by carnal minds only understood by God because he controls it . the spirit needs a body, a vessel . God works through man , taming the tongue is the outward sign of inward submission to his spirit . forgive me if I butting in your conversation. this kind of stuff is near and dear to me . I was an un-believer in all this, God's spirit found me, I was baptized in Jesus name and a fire came into my soul and I spoke in tongues before religion could tell me that people aren't doing that anymore, only in bible days, oops they told me too late. the spirit showed me everything that a baby needs to know to grow , I didn't eat food for three days and didn't know what was happening, i found out later the spirit was breaking the will of the flesh.

[kreagle]

The reason why so many believe in lies is because they are not really searching for the Truth. They have other motives propelling them toward an illusion. There are many reasons for this, a lot of them have to do with the false ego. And so there will be the Cheaters and the Cheated.

On the up side...

Those who seek Truth will be guided by the Inner Voice. There is no need to fear. But it does require making that connection.

As a reflexologist, we understand that all nerve endings terminate in the hands, feet and head. The body is a bio electric vehicle. When we clasp our hands together, the circuit (energy), is closed and directed inward, to the Self. Looping round, instead of dissipating energy outward. (I hope I have explained this ok).

When we put our hands together, we will experience that connection to the Self and Super Self (God). Then we will experience the Truth, according to our nature, and then, no one will be able to cheat us. It is 'a knowing'. No two people are identical, and so this 'knowing' may differ from one person to another, but that does not mean we cannot respect each other's Truths.

A good analogy is when a hungry man eats, he experiences satisfaction. No amount of argument will be able to convince him that he is still hungry.

It is a very good thread topic. Since the start of last year with the 'Charles' thing, people have realised how easy it is to be duped by charlatans and the material energy, and that includes myself.

I hope this isn't a tl;dr

Good luck to everyone on their path toward Truth. As our friend Jorr would say, ]'All is well.'




Lettherebelight,

What a "befitting" forum name you have! As you have "shed a little light" to us all here on the "natural man",......it has enabled me to obtain an even greater understanding on the "spiritual man". As a reflexologist, I'm sure you, along with everyone else, would agree that we are "all" made up, and consist of,....."body" and "soul".

As you've pointed out,....."The body is a bio electric vehicle",.......likewise,......."The soul is a spiritual vehicle"!

As you've also pointed out,.....once "we put our hands together, we will experience that connection,......". It's here that I will have to slightly disagree with you, in that,...."yes" a connection is made with "yourself",.....but we cannot touch God with our "nerve endings", or flesh! It will take "our spirit" in order to be able to do that!

The "body", bio electric vehicle that it is,.....will die one day,.....and return to the dust of the ground.

The "soul", spiritual vehicle that it is,......will never die,.....but will face "eternal consequences",.....whether good,....or bad.

You've shown in your post "where the connection begins" in the "body"

I spoke of, in my earlier post, (post #11),....."where the connection begins" in the "soul"

Please note,....especially,.....v.16 in the following text.......

Romans 8:15-17
King James Version (KJV)

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

As verse 16 points out, so beautifully and eloquently,....."The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,....."

Now,......"that's" a connection!!!!,.....one you sure don't want to miss out on!!

Love and Peace,........kreagle

[Unified Serenity]

Thank you for sharing. I will share what I know briefly. Biblically speaking, the evidence of the Holy Spirit indwelling in Acts chapter 2 was speaking in an anointed language where anyone hearing it understands it in their own dialect no matter how many hearers are present. The babbling tongue of many charismatic churches is not a form of tongues spoken of in the bible except in a mocking way in the old Testament. Paul spoke many languages and wished the believers spoke as many as he did, but there was a problem going on in the early church. Travelling believers would visit a place where they did not speak the common language and try to give a message on their heart, and no one could understand them except God and the Angels. They were as a clanging cymbal, noise in the assembly of believers. At the same time, if you knew you were going to travel take an interpreter with you, but that to has it's drawback.

It's cumbersome to listen to someone speak and then wait for interpretation, so Paul said, no more than 2 or 3 at the most do this in a meeting of believers. I can go into this word by word, scripture upon scripture if you like. There is one benefit to the "babbling" tongue and that is as a meditation device similar to the rosary or worry beads. The purpose is to have the mind occupied in another means while you meditate upon the Lord, and thus enter more easily into Alpha and Delta brainwaves were real spiritual illumination can take place. Please do not take offense, I mean none. Those who practice the babbling tongue do enter into a divine meditation, but it is not a special angelic language per my bible.

Peace

[turiya]

Simply put...

The lie itself is not the real issue. Its the believing that it is the real issue, here.

The reason why people want to believe is because people are lazy, they want a shortcut through this life.
Most don't want to have to make the effort to find the truth themselves, they don't want to do the work to find out what is true for themselves.
Believing in what someone else says as being the truth is easier. It requires no risk being taken. There is no chance of being a failure.
Just believe in what others are saying is the truth, and nothing else need be done.

Believing what others say, what others have written, and calling it the truth, is fooling oneself. It is a self-deception.
So don't go pointing fingers at others as being deceivers. You are the biggest deceiver of yourself.

Believing in what others tell you, and accepting it as being the truth. Nobody else is responsible but you. You are the great pretender!
Then you believe you are alive, you believe you are living a life. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In believing, you have stopped searching to find out the truth for yourself.
In doing so, you have, in a way, stopped living your life. In reality, you have started dieing.
You may believe you are alive, but in reality you have dropped out of being alive, and have begun living a lie...
just living a dead life.

Drop whatever borrowed knowledge you think is your treasure.
Come out of your grave, stop believing, and start living once again.
Stop trying to take shortcuts through this life.
Stop believing in what others are saying as being the truth.
And Start finding out for yourself what is truth.

It may be take more effort, it will take having real life experiences, instead of reading about the life experiences of others.
But this is where wisdom comes from. This is where true understanding is found.

Cheers -*-


2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (King James Version)

9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them
that perish, because they received not the love of the truth,
that they might be saved.

11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that
they should believe a lie:

12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[ghostrider]

it's amazing when you pray and then be quiet and listen and wait on the Lord. He will enter , and you wil be changed forever. Have Faith as a grain of mustard seed. say unto the mountain be removed and be cast into the sea, with God nothing is impossible .

[kreagle]

You can't believe in any lies if you stop believing in "things" and start experiencing the present moment. Anyone who wishes to escape the lies needs to stop believing - believing requires a link to something external - considering and experiencing do not ... consider religion, yes. Believe it, no.

This is what God is asking of us (IMHO) - start living in the present - it will be the only way to escape the delusions of "beliefs"

BTW that biblical consideration of the OP -- a true gem with value!

DeDukshyn,

I don't think you fully understand what you are saying here,.....in relation to the Sacred Word of God and the concept to "believe".

Mark 16:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

As I pointed out, in my previous post, the "Holy Ghost experience" will fully help you "identify" the many lies that Satan bombards humanity with on a daily basis, and then be able to take the proper evasive measures to avoid the lie before it becomes "embedded in our psyche".

#1) Believe the Scriptures,.......#2) Obey the "Gospel Message" Peter preached in Acts 2:38,.........#3) Receive the "promise",...the gift of the Holy Ghost,.....and you'll be well on your way to living a "victorious and overcoming life".

May God bless you abundantly,.......kreagle

I'm curious, what tongues did they speak as you understand it?

Unified Serenity,

Great to hear from you!,....and thanks for the question.

First I will supply the "text" and then answer your question.

Acts 2:1-12
King James Version (KJV)

2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Verses 9-11 inform us that there were approximately 17 different nationalities, all Jewish, present on this "Day of Pentecost".

When the Holy Ghost was "initially" poured out, in verse 4, and they (the 120) began to "speak in other tongues", as the Spirit gave them the utterance,.....it obviously appears that the "listeners" of what was gloriously happening could "hear" some of the 120 speaking in the Parthian dialect,.....some in the Mede dialect,....some in the Elamite dialect,.....some in the Mesopotamian dialect,....and so on,.....and so on. As a result, we once again see the "listeners" proclaiming,.....in verse 11,......"we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."(It should be equally noted, here, that "all" of the 120 in the "upper room" were Galilaeans, (v. 7), but did not speak in their "native tongue" when they were filled with the Holy Ghost.) I, personally, am convinced that this particular "order of events" and the way it was carried out and performed, was God "highlighting" His glorious event in a very special way!

This is perfectly in line with many, many accounts of people being filled with the Holy Ghost today! A Missionary from Africa came through our state and recently visited with our Church. The wife of the missionary,(he and she are Caucasian), gave the most beautiful testimony of a revival service that they were in. It seems at the conclusion of the service,...an altar call was given. (Let me interject here that they were in a "very primitive" location of Africa.) There was literally "hundreds and hundreds" of local "natives" that were present at this altar call as they began to pray in earnest. The missionaries' youngest daughter had pressed through the throng of people, as they were praying, in an effort to pray with a group of "young African girls,....about her same age. The wife began, at this point, to describe what happened to her daughter next. It appeared to her that a "bee", common in the area, had perhaps attacked her daughter,.....flown up her dress,.....and was stinging her repeatedly. All the mother could see, from the pulpit area, was her daughter adamantly jumping about and hollering. Being a "concerned mother", she quickly worked her way through the crowd of worshippers, to her daughter and shouted,......"don't worry,....Mama's here,....let me help you get the bee out from under your dress!" The little girl,....about 12 years old at the time, responded to her mother by saying,....."Mama,......there's no bee,.....I'm fine, Mama,.....you don't understand!,.....Mama,....this little girl (African) has just received the Holy Ghost,......and Mama,.......she's speaking in "perfect English" as she is praising God, Mama!

And yes, the "little African girl" returned to her "native tongue" once again, at the conclusion of this glorious event in her life when she was "born again" and likewise had received the Holy Ghost. She had never been taught anything else, other than her "native African language".

God has a "miracle" in store for those who will "believe on me as the Scriptures has said,...."

In fact,.......it's a "promise"!

God bless you,.....Unified Serenity,.....and everyone else!,.........kreagle

[kreagle]

Thank you for sharing. I will share what I know briefly. Biblically speaking, the evidence of the Holy Spirit indwelling in Acts chapter 2 was speaking in an anointed language where anyone hearing it understands it in their own dialect no matter how many hearers are present. The babbling tongue of many charismatic churches is not a form of tongues spoken of in the bible except in a mocking way in the old Testament. Paul spoke many languages and wished the believers spoke as many as he did, but there was a problem going on in the early church. Travelling believers would visit a place where they did not speak the common language and try to give a message on their heart, and no one could understand them except God and the Angels. They were as a clanging cymbal, noise in the assembly of believers. At the same time, if you knew you were going to travel take an interpreter with you, but that to has it's drawback.

It's cumbersome to listen to someone speak and then wait for interpretation, so Paul said, no more than 2 or 3 at the most do this in a meeting of believers. I can go into this word by word, scripture upon scripture if you like. There is one benefit to the "babbling" tongue and that is as a meditation device similar to the rosary or worry beads. The purpose is to have the mind occupied in another means while you meditate upon the Lord, and thus enter more easily into Alpha and Delta brainwaves were real spiritual illumination can take place. Please do not take offense, I mean none. Those who practice the babbling tongue do enter into a divine meditation, but it is not a special angelic language per my bible.

Peace

Unified Serenity,

Unfortunately, there continues to be confusion about "speaking in tongues"

The reality, and truth, behind this Biblical event, is as follows.......

The Scripture actually teaches and relays "two separate types" of "speaking in tongues"

#1) "speaking in other tongues",.....which every "new born" believer will do when they receive the Holy Ghost.

Mark 16:16-17
King James Version (KJV)

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;


AND


#2) "speaking in an unknown tongue",.....which is listed as one of the "9 Spiritual Gifts", as specified in 1 Corinthians 12:10. This "Spiritual Gift", actually #8 on the list, is only given, by God, to a "seasoned,....or trusted" believer,....one who has already, earlier, been filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke with "other" tongues as they were "initially filled" with the Spirit. This "Gift" would then be used, as you pointed out, for the edification of the "entire Church assembly", as God would choose and dictate.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11
King James Version (KJV)

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

I hope this somewhat "clears" the topic on "speaking in tongues" up for you.

I would also like to give you a "word of caution", here, to be a little more careful in the wording you have chosen to describe this Holy event,......"babbling tongue". To your credit, you have stated that you mean no offense,.....and I believe you. Most of the time, that this "term" has been used, has certainly been with "ill intent" by the "mockers of the world".

Acts 2:12-16
King James Version (KJV)

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Also,....to your credit,.....you spoke about the "charismatic" movement and tied in the comment "babbling tongue" in connection with them,....as in a "mocking" fashion,... precisely as I have spoken about and equally referenced in the above Scripture.

To that, I will have to say that I sadly agree. Satan has always seen to it that for "every genuine Holy movement of God",....to put a "counterfeit" in place that will take away from, or "mock", the genuine experience.

For the love of God,.....don't let yourself be deceived by the "imposter's of this world"

I'm telling you,....Unified Serenity,.....the "experience" is REAL!

The Apostle Peter will tell you,..........the "experience" is REAL!

Mary, (Jesus' mother), will tell you,....the "experience" is REAL!

The "120" will all tell you,.................the "experience" is REAL!

Open your heart,....and the "BIBLE" will also tell you the "same thing",.....it's REAL!

Lotsa love and Peace,...........kreagle

[kreagle]

the church doesn't teach the truth, the masses believe the lies, easy to believe the lie , the truth hurts. The truth Jesus and God are the same person. Jesus (flesh) God (spirit) not two seperate God's but one and the same. flesh and spirit are one, father and son are one. the father loves the son, the spirit loves the flesh, replace Jesus with flesh and God with spirit, now you have the hidden mystery the straight gate and narrow way and few there be that find it. I and my father are one. the flesh and the spirit are one. the father in me , he doeth the works. the spirit of God became flesh. Low the kingdom of God is WITHIN you .

ghostrider,

you bring up some "extremely interesting points",.....in not only this post but also in your "next post",...#24


(per ghostrider)
Re: Possible reason why so many people believe in lies.
if I can jump in, speaking in tongues is the spirit speaking through you, the non-believers will hear a man of another country speaking their home language and know it has to be God working through them. It's also a heavenly language not understood by carnal minds only understood by God because he controls it . the spirit needs a body, a vessel . God works through man , taming the tongue is the outward sign of inward submission to his spirit . forgive me if I butting in your conversation. this kind of stuff is near and dear to me . I was an un-believer in all this, God's spirit found me, I was baptized in Jesus name and a fire came into my soul and I spoke in tongues before religion could tell me that people aren't doing that anymore, only in bible days, oops they told me too late. the spirit showed me everything that a baby needs to know to grow , I didn't eat food for three days and didn't know what was happening, i found out later the spirit was breaking the will of the flesh.

I find "both" of these posts very fascinating, in that, they both say a "lot more" than the "average person" might originally see!

I am going to get back with you, tomorrow,.......I must retire to bed for some rest at this late hour.

Before I go,.....I'd like to share this "passage" with you and get your "initial" thoughts on its meaning,......what do you think Jesus was relaying here?


Matthew 28:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


(Note: this is not a "trick" question, at all. The "insight" that you displayed on the "two posts" I have referenced here tells me that you probably "also" have a greater insight into this passage than "most" have, too.)

Look forward to conversing with you again,........kreagle

[RedeZra]

when we see that the ptb

has debunked the Bible


and the alarm bells are not ringing

then how will we wake ?


RedeZra,

But the "alarm bells" are ringing,......loud and clear,....to those who have "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Scripture has said,...."




yes Kreagle i know the alarm bells rang for you

but how many believe the Bible today ?


the ptb has totally debunked it in the eyes of the masses

so without a personally visitation from Jesus


how will they wake ?


and we have not yet seen the signs and lying wonders of satan

which will cause the Great falling away from the Gospel


so not one of us must be complacent in our insights

[RedeZra]

The truth Jesus and God are the same person.


you're right when you say Jesus is God

but He is not God alone

the Father is also God

and so is the Holy spirit


this is the Trinity of the Godhead

[kreagle]

The truth Jesus and God are the same person.


you're right when you say Jesus is God

but He is not God alone



the Father is also God

and so is the Holy spirit


this is the Trinity of the Godhead

RedeZra,

"If", your scenario, the "trinity" is correct,......then "how" do you explain the following passage?.........

1 Timothy 6:14-16
King James Version (KJV)

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


po·ten·tate   /ˈpoʊtnˌteɪt/ Show Spelled[poht-n-teyt] Show IPA
noun
one who possesses great power, as a sovereign, monarch, or ruler.


"If" Jesus is the "blessed and only Potentate", as the Scripture so accurately describes Him as,.....where does that leave the "trinity's" concept of.....

#1) "God the Father",.....is He then "inferior" to the Son, in that the Son is undeniably the "only Potentate"?

#2) "God the Holy Ghost",.....I guess this also leaves Him out also?

RedeZra,........

Our Lord was "our Father",........when He created us.

Our Lord became "the Son of Man/God",......when He "robed Himself in flesh" and consequently redeemed us at Calvary with the shedding of His Blood,.....the "perfect sacrifice"!

and finally......

Our Lord becomes "the Holy Ghost",.....when He comes to "dwell" in our "earthly tabernacles", (namely "us"), as the Comforter,.....fulfilling the "rest" that He promised and preparing us for the day that He returns!

And He is more than capable of "fulfilling these roles",.....and at the same time retaining His valence of "1" Deity!!!

(point)

"If" I, "kreagle", can "completely fulfill" the role of 1) father,( and I am!),....2) son,( I'm that, too!),.....and 3) spirit,( there's one "in" me).......AND STILL BE ONE PERSON!

then "why" is it so hard to believe that God can't "do the same"?


To Moses and Israel,......He was known as "I AM"

To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,.....He was known as "Jehovah"

Today, we call His name,........."JESUS",.....which "literally" means "Jehovah has become our Saviour"!

Ephesians 4:4-6
King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The "trinity" concept was "manufactured" by the Vatican at the Council of Nicaea, 325 A.D., along with many "other" diversions.

RedeZra,......your "still" by friend/brother!,.....but your Catholic "foundation" is not nearly as "sound" as you might think it to be!

As a "matter-of-fact",......it "sounds" broken, to me!

Love and Peace,......kreagle

[rgray222]

The reason that so many people "believe" lies is because the mainstream media is complicit in telling, spreading and supporting lies. That is a very broad statement so let me give you a specific example from today's news reports.

I was reading a column on CNN this morning written by LZ Granderson, the title was Don't be so Nosy about Fast and Furious (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/26/opinion/granderson-fast-furious/index.html?hpt=po_r1).

The bottom line is that 200 Mexican Souls were murdered, one American Law enforcement soul was murdered and Granderson takes the position that we don't have a right to know what the government is doing. He goes on to say this sort of behavior has been going on through many administrations, both republican and democrat and we should essentially look the other way! It is that age old story from the media "that is the way it has always been done, therefore it is OK".

He says we can't handle the truth and we should not be so nosy! In essence he is asking us to look the other way, ignore the murder and death that the American Government was directly involved in.

He is not even being indirect, he is simply asking to his readers, please be complicit in these murders and help hide the truth from the public. He has no concern for the husbands, wives, children, aunts, uncles, grandparent of the murdered victims. He is saying.........let us ignore this so we can do it another day! He does not even bring up the impact of this botched program on the lives of hundreds if not thousands of souls!

The purpose of this example is not to be political but simply to point out that the mainstream media is complicit in the lies, in this case they are asking people to sweep it under the carpet and ignore "the truth"

I am very sure I could go to Fox, NBC, BBC, CBS, NYTimes, Boston Globe, The Independent etc and find a very similar argument on a completely different subject.

For whatever reason many people still believe that the media provides us with honest reporting. They craft their thinking around dishonest or horribly slanted stories and spew out what the media tells them.

The question this thread asks is "Why do so many people believe in lies?" the answer is because we are being fed lies (about government, religion, even science etc) by organizations that reach millions of people everyday. They are not only asking us to believe their lies but they are asking us to be party to their lies and help spread the lie to other people.

It is extremely sad and disheartening that no matter how much you point out the media's blatant lying, many people (including friends and family) just go on believing what the media says. They are too deeply rooted in their political ideology or they adopt and attitude of, if it is on TV or in the newspaper it must be true, even though they say they do not believe what the media says. How sad.

Now the issue of how and who started these horrible programs and wars is an entirely another matter for another thread!

[Unified Serenity]

We have entered the days of lawlessness when men call good evil and evil good. One reason why so many people believe in lies is that the truth is uncomfortable, and at least here in America we are completely focused on our comfort. I like the saying, "I have come to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable." Some on Avalon think I only post negative posts. They put me on ignore and that is their right to do so. I have put a select few on ignore because of personal ad hominem attacks over and over which mods seem to think is appropriate behavior by ignoring it though they participate in the same thread, they actually thank the personal attacks at times, and such so I end up putting some on ignore.

Sadly, I can't put mods on ignore, I have tried with a couple, LOL. The point is that the ignore button is a double edged sword if you are here to learn. How much are you going to learn from those who you know agree with you? But, people would rather be comfortable than read with an open mind and heart asking for wisdom and discernment. They choose to stop seeking truth, and it's ok really because one day we will all know the truth from the least of us to the greatest of us. No one will have to teach their neighbor. What a day that shall be!

[mexrph]

There is a high degree of cognitive dissonance (inability to accept new knowledge that will cause mental anguish) prevalent in American society. People wold rather believe that "it can't happen here". A signifcant percentage of Americans are delusional and want to keep on living in their dream world. Recognizing the truth would require them to do something about it and they do not have the integrity to get involved and do something to make this world a better place to live. Don't bother them. Let them watch American Idol or whatever seems to be their world. Dedicated minorities have always made the difference. Our minority cannot allow the NWO to bring about the "New Dark Ages" that they seek.

[kreagle]

... <snip> ...


Kreagle ... I took a look at everything again and really hard at the scripture you wrote.

Firstly, there is no context for me to grab from that about the word "belief" as it is intended in that script ... so I'm handicapped ... I'll make the safest assumption possible - The belief in Christ's teachings of Love and Forgiveness:

The word in that scripture is "belief". But that "belief" that is indicated there is the "belief" (I'm assuming as I have no context), that honoring forgiveness always, loving every moment from the heart, etc (as Jesus Preached) - is the proper way. Those concepts are all only available in the present moment - they are ways to shift you into the Present Moment. One cannot be "forgiving" yesterday. For love to have any "reality" whatsoever - it has to be in the present moment. "Don't worry, I'll love you tomorrow!" just doesn't work ;)

So I present that my message is pretty much the same, just expressed differently.

DeDukshyn,

Don't be deceived,.....there, quite frankly, are a "lot" of differences in our "messages"!

However,........

I certainly sense an attitude of sincerity from your post, which is excellent. God can easily take a "platform like this" and consequently "open one's understanding" where they can make it to the "next level".

Even the disciples, who walked "shoulder to shoulder" with Him on a daily basis, reached a point where they required a "greater revelation" in order to fully perceive what His will and direction was!

Luke 24:44-45
King James Version (KJV)

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

It, somewhat, appears that you are trying to delve into the Scriptures without a Bible at your disposal.

I gathered that from your response to me,....as follows,...."Firstly, there is no context for me to grab from that about the word "belief" as it is intended in that script ... so I'm handicapped ...

If that is the case, I will "first" share with you an excellent Bible website,.....one I use quite often, myself,......and that's www.biblegateway.com

You will be able to "click" on the selection "Available Versions", to the left of the website. Once there you will find a "drop down box" with many "versions" to select from.
You will find that I "exclusively" use the "King James Version". Many of the "newer versions" are entirely to "watered down" to my liking and preference.

Better yet,....find the time and money to "buy" yourself your own "personal" Bible.
You'll be glad you did,.....and it will "prove to be" the best buy you ever made,....I promise!

Last, but not least,.....I want to "personally" offer my assistance to you,....."if" you should require or need any. Don't be afraid to ask, my friend,......for I "care".

You are more than welcome to "PM" me if you feel more comfortable in doing that!

Your servant,.......in Christ Jesus,.......kreagle

[DeDukshyn]

.... <snip> ...
DeDukshyn,

Don't be deceived,.....there, quite frankly, are a "lot" of differences in our "messages"!

However,........

I certainly sense an attitude of sincerity from your post, which is excellent. God can easily take a "platform like this" and consequently "open one's understanding" where they can make it to the "next level".

Even the disciples, who walked "shoulder to shoulder" with Him on a daily basis, reached a point where they required a "greater revelation" in order to fully perceive what His will and direction was!

Luke 24:44-45
King James Version (KJV)

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

It, somewhat, appears that you are trying to delve into the Scriptures without a Bible at your disposal.

I gathered that from your response to me,....as follows,...."Firstly, there is no context for me to grab from that about the word "belief" as it is intended in that script ... so I'm handicapped ...

If that is the case, I will "first" share with you an excellent Bible website,.....one I use quite often, myself,......and that's www.biblegateway.com

You will be able to "click" on the selection "Available Versions", to the left of the website. Once there you will find a "drop down box" with many "versions" to select from.
You will find that I "exclusively" use the "King James Version". Many of the "newer versions" are entirely to "watered down" to my liking and preference.

Better yet,....find the time and money to "buy" yourself your own "personal" Bible.
You'll be glad you did,.....and it will "prove to be" the best buy you ever made,....I promise!

Last, but not least,.....I want to "personally" offer my assistance to you,....."if" you should require or need any. Don't be afraid to ask, my friend,......for I "care".

You are more than welcome to "PM" me if you feel more comfortable in doing that!

Your servant,.......in Christ Jesus,.......kreagle


Religion is not the next level for me, I'm sorry, But I have already traveled that road. Born and raised christian myself, realized that forced interpretations from the Church were designed. They used to behead people for trying to read the bible and interpret it yourself .. did you know?

I still read my bible occasionally, but while I do it I listen to the Christ from within me. I'll take that anyday over an external belief. My 2 cents - and I will never waver from this. ;) Much love ;)

[kreagle]

when we see that the ptb

has debunked the Bible


and the alarm bells are not ringing

then how will we wake ?


RedeZra,

But the "alarm bells" are ringing,......loud and clear,....to those who have "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Scripture has said,...."




yes Kreagle i know the alarm bells rang for you

but how many believe the Bible today ?


the ptb has totally debunked it in the eyes of the masses

so without a personally visitation from Jesus


how will they wake ?

and we have not yet seen the signs and lying wonders of satan

which will cause the Great falling away from the Gospel


so not one of us must be complacent in our insights

RedeZra,

In your "original" post on this topic, you quoted,....."then how will we wake ?",.....leading me to believe that perhaps, even you, had somewhat "pushed the snooze button",....or something.

Consequently, your "follow up" post now states,......"how will they wake ?"

To answer this I must go back in time and visit a "young man". This "young man", RedeZra, had "played by the rules" of this world for the entire 26 years, to date, of his young life,.....but "something dramatic" was beginning to occur in this "young man's" life. Suddenly this "young man" had become "sick and tired" of the hypocrisy of this world,....and the way the "game was being dictated" to play, or live by. It had become "painfully obvious" to this "young man" that he could no longer rely upon "key individuals" that he had once looked up to. They had all, systematically, let him down,....one by one. There had been "extreme pressure" from many of these "key individuals" put upon this "young man". Their message was clear! "Come and be like us,....they said,......and we will make you successful!",.....to which this "young man",.....finally woke up one day,.......and said,........NO!"

RedeZra,.....on that "fateful day", this "young man" made a monumental decision. To the astonishment of his "business peers" he said NO. He said NO to a "mapped out" plan that had been especially designed for him,....that would have made him wealthy,....by "this world's standards",....because he wanted to be able to look in the "eyes of his three children" and tell them that "honesty and integrity" were the values their Daddy lived by.

On that "fateful day",.....this "young man" also experienced a "complete dietary change"! He,....from this day forward,....would never again,....let this world cram their garbage "down his throat"!!!

It was now time,.....for this "young man",.....to "eat off of another plate"! He had finally developed a "new hunger" for a "different type of meal"!

Matthew 5:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Within less than a month from this "drastic turnaround" in this "young man's" life,.....he found that his new-found "hunger" was leading him to an "old fashion altar",....where he began to "pour out his heart in repentance" to a loving and forgiving God.

On Dec. 30, of 1981, this "young man" was baptized in the beautiful name of "Jesus Christ" for the remission of his sins.

Twenty-three days later, on Nov. 22, 1981,....this "young man" was then filled with the Holy Ghost and began to "speak in other tongues",....exactly like they did on the Day of Pentecost in the Book of Acts chapter 2.

This "young man",.......was "now" eating, literally,.......off of "another plate"!

By now,.....I'm sure you know,.....that this "young man",.......was......."ME"!

(point)

RegeZra,....you and others may be asking yourself, about right now,....."just why has kreagle "dragged us all down memory lane"?,.....He "still" hasn't answered the "question",......"how will they wake?",..........or..........has he?

Everybody wants a "short cut" answer. Nobody wants to "take the time" to arrive at a complete and lasting solution to the complexity of life and what it throws at us each day.

Folks,....."this" is what I had to do "personally", in order to "wake up". Your "individual story" may be written and recorded differently,.....but the "similarities" will still be the same.

Before you will,....."wake up",.......you'll have to "realize that something is wrong" with the "current situation" you are in,.........just like I did!

Before you will,....."move on",.......to "bigger and better" things,.....your going to have to undergo a "dietary change",.............just like I did!

Was the "journey" long that it took,....in order to be "awakened"?,.....well, yes it was,.....but it was "certainly worth" the time it took. I "only have one lifetime",.....and so do each of you,......might as well use the time wisely!

And, yes,......I concur with you completely, RedeZra,....that "complacency" must be guarded against at "all times"

And "that's another" benefit one acquires when you "receive the gift of the Holy Ghost"

John 16:12-14
King James Version (KJV)

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Love and Peace,........kreagle

[deridan]

Debukshyn vs Kreagle:
belief in an anything would get one into trouble.
visualize the belief of which Kreagle speaks of in the following way,
u the centre, and then one needs a surrounding medium into which one can extend,
the belief of which Kreagle then speaks is not 'any surrounding medium'.. but a medium through which one can receive a veritable weapon, the H.S. (which reveals intimations extending to our times)

like this piece from Isaiah 7v4 "& say unto him Take heed, and be quite; fear not, neither be faint-hearded .....then speaking of the destruction of various mechanisations against subject, then : if ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.

the centre, or the conformation of the i determines with what that i can interact with, ...if that i has not simulated the state of the actual thru belief in a prior time......well then_

[kreagle]

Debukshyn vs Kreagle:
belief in an anything would get one into trouble.
visualize the belief of which Kreagle speaks of in the following way,
u the centre, and then one needs a surrounding medium into which one can extend,
the belief of which Kreagle then speaks is not 'any surrounding medium'.. but a medium through which one can receive a veritable weapon, the H.S. (which reveals intimations extending to our times)

like this piece from Isaiah 7v4 "& say unto him Take heed, and be quite; fear not, neither be faint-hearded .....then speaking of the destruction of various mechanisations against subject, then : if ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.

the centre, or the conformation of the i determines with what that i can interact with, ...if that i has not simulated the state of the actual thru belief in a prior time......well then_

deridan,

There is no "DeDukshyn vs. kreagle"

Why attempt to start an argument,.....when there is none?

DeDukshyn has been "cordial" to me,.....and I to him,.....even though we are on totally different "pages".

You need to learn a lesson,......from both "him",......and "I".


Love and Peace,..........kreagle

[RedeZra]

"If" Jesus is the "blessed and only Potentate", as the Scripture so accurately describes Him as,.....where does that leave the "trinity's" concept of.....



"Now David himself said in the Book of Psalms: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,

Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' - Luke 20 42-43 [Psalm 110:1]






RedeZra,......your "still" by friend/brother!,.....but your Catholic "foundation" is not nearly as "sound" as you might think it to be!




i don't know about the Catholics but the Trinity is Scriptural sound



"As soon as Jesus Christ was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and landing on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'"[Mt 3:16–17] [Mk 1:10–11] [Luke 3:22] [John 1:32]



"But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God." [Acts 7:55]

[kreagle]

"If" Jesus is the "blessed and only Potentate", as the Scripture so accurately describes Him as,.....where does that leave the "trinity's" concept of.....



"Now David himself said in the Book of Psalms: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,

Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' - Luke 20 42-43 [Psalm 110:1]






RedeZra,......your "still" by friend/brother!,.....but your Catholic "foundation" is not nearly as "sound" as you might think it to be!




i don't know about the Catholics but the Trinity is Scriptural sound



"As soon as Jesus Christ was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and landing on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'"[Mt 3:16–17] [Mk 1:10–11] [Luke 3:22] [John 1:32]



"But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God." [Acts 7:55]

RedeZra,

It should be noted that you have completely "evaded" my question about 1 Timothy 6:15,.......which portrays Jesus as the......"blessed and only Potentate",.....and gone in a "different direction", in an effort to support your view. This is "not the first time" that I have seen "trinitarians" evade 1 Timothy 6:15,....along with other Scriptures also.

You know, as well as I do, that the "term" only Potentate means "1",.....as in a "valence or property" of "1" Potentate.

(note)

It should be further noted, that when we read "passages" of Scripture,.....such as the one I directed to you,....1 Timothy 6:15,....., that they are intended to give the "reader" insight, or inspiration,.......not confusion!!!

When we read various "passages" of Scripture that seemingly challenges concepts, or ideas, that we have previously held to be true,......the "reader" simply needs to pause for a moment and come to the realization that God is endeavoring to "teach you something here",......not......."trick you"!

(Case in point)

trinity doctrine proclaims.......

That God the Father,.....and God the Son,......were "Co-Creators"

The Bible proclaims........

Isaiah 44:24
King James Version (KJV)

24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

hence the "terms"....alone,.....and....by myself,.....leave no room for "Co-Creators", do they?

An "identical conclusion" can also be drawn from the passage of Scripture that I gave to you, RedeZra, in 1 Timothy 6:15

trinity doctrine proclaims........

That,......God the Father.......God the Son.......God the Holy Ghost,.....are "Co-Equal"

The Bible proclaims........

1 Timothy 6:14-16
King James Version (KJV)

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Another definition for "Potentate", that I did not include on my original post states:......"one who wields controlling power". Wow!,.....with this in mind,.....where does that leave,......God the Father,......and God the Holy Ghost? Doesn't sound like "they" are "Co-Equal",.....does it?

These are only "two examples",....out of many,.....that can be made when comparing the doctrine of the trinity against what the Scriptures actually say! The more one tries to "rationally explain" the doctrine of the trinity, the more confusing and problematic it becomes. You will find that the "problems completely go away" when we come back to the simplicity of God's Word, and accept that He is One, in Deity, who operates,....as He chooses,....in various roles,....within our lives.

Once again,.....the Scriptures are "not" trying to "trick anyone",......but "rather" trying to "teach and inspire" you,.....to "reveal the great mysteries, thereof"!

I will now, happily address, the passage you have pointed out in your rebuttal......

(RedeZra quote)

"Now David himself said in the Book of Psalms: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,

Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' - Luke 20 42-43 [Psalm 110:1]

RedeZra, it's somewhat easy to understand why there are "those" who misunderstand what the Scriptures are implying here,....for we are so "caught up" in our "human-way" of thinking,.....and fail to recognize, fully, that we are dealing with something "totally different" here, namely things that are "heavenly". It will require us to be "heavenly-minded", in order to properly perceive, or else we will completely "miss out" on what God is trying to reveal to us!

Take a look at the following passage of Scripture.........

Matthew 26:63-65
King James Version (KJV)

63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

This "passage" simply refers to Jesus sitting on the "right hand of power". It, in no way, is trying to imply that there is a "separation" between Himself and God!

(crucial point!)
When, I, "kreagle", look out of "my eyes",....down toward my chin,...and "view my body",......and ask myself,......"where is my physical strength?",......I, readily know the answer,......it's on my right hand!, (sorry to all of you "lefties"). That's where "my strength" resides,.....on "my right side",......but "that does, in no way,......make me "two". I'm still "one" person!!

Likewise, when God,.....looks out from His Holy Eyesight,.....he "sees" THE MAN, JESUS, on His right hand,......which is "likewise",....connected to Him,......because He is "also" ONE . It was through this "right hand of power",.....THE MAN, JESUS,....that He would enter into this world and conquer death, Hell, and the grave,....and in His role as the Lamb of God, He shed His blood and redeemed us at Calvary.

Another passage you offered, was as follows......

"As soon as Jesus Christ was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and landing on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'"[Mt 3:16–17] [Mk 1:10–11] [Luke 3:22] [John 1:32]

The "voice from heaven" here is nothing more than the "Omnipresence" of God, (everywhere and anywhere, all the time), being in full demonstration,......just like He can today. He can "speak" on this side of the planet,.....and also on the other side of the planet,.....multiple times,.....multiple places,.....for He is God,.....and has that ability.

The "event" that is occurring here,....the baptism of the Man, Jesus,....was a "validation" by God in the eyes of John the Baptist, that this was, indeed, His Son, and not an impostor.

You'll notice that I "copied" your text and quote, in my reply,.....which I normally do not do,.....especially when there are Scriptures involved. More that once, RedeZra, I have seen you refer to "newer versions" of the Bible as "lacking" or "omitting" in context. The above scripture that "you" have supplied is "guilty" of this where it records,......with him. Compare the KJV.

Matthew 3:16-17
King James Version (KJV)

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Those "two little words" may not mean a whole lot to you,.....but they, in reality, say two "completely different" things.

You see I can be "with you",......but not "in you".

God was saying here "in whom",......He was not only "in the Man/Jesus",.....but it goes on to say He was "well pleased",......to be in Him.

"This" is why we have this particular enlightening passage of Scripture.......

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
King James Version (KJV)

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

As you can see,....I've spent a great deal of time,....and effort,.....to reply to your post.

It may surprise you, RedeZra, to know that I certainly did not see,....no way near,....this "volume of truth" to begin with. I still had "issues" with the Godhead, and did not "fully know" who Jesus really was,.....even for a "short period of time" after I had been baptized in His name, Jesus,....and received His Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in "other" tongues. However,.......as a "babe" in Christ,......I had a "platform that God could build upon",......and that was a "hungry and thirsty" heart!!!!

Genuine "hunger and thirst" always works!!!!,......God "sees",.....and God "knows"

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[RedeZra]

Another definition for "Potentate", that I did not include on my original post states:......"one who wields controlling power". Wow!,.....with this in mind,.....where does that leave,......God the Father,......and God the Holy Ghost? Doesn't sound like "they" are "Co-Equal",.....does it?




it's no secret that Jesus spoke a lot about the Father

and that is because they are not the same Person

but both make up the Trinity of Divinity together with the Holy spirit


God is One

in Will Word and Wisdom



In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the beginning with God.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. - John 1:1-5


And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1:14


Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." - John 8:58



the Word

was with God and was God

and the Word

was sent by God

to be born as Man to save men


And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18


And He has on [His] robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. - Rev 19:16


do not think that i am questioning the Potentate of Lord Jesus

[kreagle]

Another definition for "Potentate", that I did not include on my original post states:......"one who wields controlling power". Wow!,.....with this in mind,.....where does that leave,......God the Father,......and God the Holy Ghost? Doesn't sound like "they" are "Co-Equal",.....does it?




it's no secret that Jesus spoke a lot about the Father

and that is because they are not the same Person

but both make up the Trinity of Divinity together with the Holy spirit


God is One

in Will Word and Wisdom



In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the beginning with God.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. - John 1:1-5


And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1:14


Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." - John 8:58



the Word

was with God and was God

and the Word

was sent by God

to be born as Man to save men


And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18


And He has on [His] robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. - Rev 19:16


do not think that i am questioning the Potentate of Lord Jesus

RedeZra,

You misunderstand, completely, my friend. Absolutely nowhere, in my posts to you, have I "questioned" your belief in "the Potentate of Lord Jesus".

Go back to my "original post" on this topic, post #34, and you will find that I asked you the "simple question",......."how" do you explain the following passage?

It actually comes as "no surprise" to me that you "still have not" answered, or explained, this passage,.....in that I have yet to have any other "trinitarian",.....answer or explain, it either.

"only Potentate" means "1" Potentate,.....and leaves "no room" for "another",.....pure, plain, and simple.

"If" the concept of the "trinity" was any where close to being correct,....then this passage of Scripture would be required to give "equal" consideration and honor to,......God the Father,.......and........God the Holy Ghost,....but from a "trinity" standpoint is does "not",.......does it?

Don't you think the Scriptures are trying to "tell us something", here, RedeZra? As I stated earlier,.....they are "not trying to trick us",......but rather to "teach, or enlighten, us"!

(point to ponder)

I sincerely hope that you do not think that I am trying to be antagonistic towards you, in any way, RedeZra. I, in no way, am your adversary,.....and please,.....do not take the "contents" of what I may present to you as a "personal attack". I,......like you,......have a great love for the Scriptures. I consider you as a "brother",....in the Lord!

I am "convinced" that a "real,.....brother or sister",......is always going to have enough "love and concern", between themselves,.....to "look one another in the eyes", (or in "this case",.....over the "keyboard"),......and "honestly tell them when they feel they are making a "grave mistake"!

And, yes,....I do believe that adhering to the doctrine of the trinity is a "grave mistake"!

Why do I say this?

The "trinity doctrine",.....first defined, by Catholicism, at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D., changed the "original" baptismal formula , used by the Apostles, in the Book of Acts. They changed the baptismal formula from the name of Jesus Christ,......to,.......Father, Son and Holy Ghost. (World Book Encyclopedia, 1984, Vol. T, p. 363. Also Chaney Encyclopedia p. 53)

RedeZra,....."look it up for yourself",......"its all there"!,....and this is "just the beginning" of the "many" things that "they have changed",.....over the last several hundred years!

Do you "still want to say" that the "doctrine of the trinity" is on a "sound foundation"?

Sounds "cracked,.....broken,.....and.......rotten,.....to me"!!

Love and Peace,...........kreagle

[RedeZra]

Do you "still want to say" that the "doctrine of the trinity" is on a "sound foundation"?

Sounds "cracked,.....broken,.....and.......rotten,.....to me"!!

Love and Peace,...........kreagle



Jesus talked a lot about His Father

Who is the Only Potentate


but the Father has given all authority to Jesus



And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18




which He will manifest in His own time, [He who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,


who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom [be] honor and everlasting power. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:15-16



nobody has seen the Father but many have seen Jesus

so the Only Potentate in question here in Timothy is the Father



but again...

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18

[David Trd1]

The word God has its roots in the word GAD which has its origins in orion..............

[kreagle]

Do you "still want to say" that the "doctrine of the trinity" is on a "sound foundation"?

Sounds "cracked,.....broken,.....and.......rotten,.....to me"!!

Love and Peace,...........kreagle



Jesus talked a lot about His Father

Who is the Only Potentate


but the Father has given all authority to Jesus



And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18




which He will manifest in His own time, [He who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,


who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom [be] honor and everlasting power. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:15-16



nobody has seen the Father but many have seen Jesus

so the Only Potentate in question here in Timothy is the Father



but again...

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18

RedeZra,

You're "play on words" is astounding. Unified Serenity is right,...you do "cherry-pick" a lot!

Let me say "here" that I know I am "not" going to convince you with "words alone".

"Words alone" did not convince me either,.....by themselves.

I had to be "hungry and thirsty" for the "Truth",.....and allow God to reveal Himself,.....(not "themselves"),...to me,.......slowly but surely,.....and He "did just that"!,......"AFTER" I was "filled with the Holy Ghost,....(not before!)


(your quote)

but again...

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18


(Biblical point)

When God "manifested Himself in the flesh",......came to the Earth for the "ultimate goal of Calvary",......had the angel to proclaim that His name would be JESUS,......it "must be understood" that He came here with "all the power at His disposal". He did not come here,......."half-cocked",.....or....."half-prepared"!

As, (ONE GOD),....He, anointed "the body",.....that He, (ONE GOD),....would dwell "IN",.....with "all" of His power/authority,......that He "already possessed"!


Colossians 2:8-10
King James Version (KJV)

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

(in conclusion)


1 Timothy 6:14-16
King James Version (KJV)

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

RedeZra,

We "all" know that Jesus, the Man,......was readily seen, on a daily basis, while He was here,bodily, on Earth. This "passage" speaks about His "current time" in Heaven, as the ONE GOD, He has "always been",...."still retaining" His New Testament name,.....JESUS, today!

"This passage is referring to "the light",..... which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see!,.....not the Man, Jesus!

The Man, Jesus........no longer "exists", RedeZra!

Our God,....whose "name" is Jesus,.....is the "only ONE who exists!!,....and is "still fully capable at the same time" to disperse of "His Spirit" into the lives of His children who obey and love His Word!

Wishing you Best,.....Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[RedeZra]

well it doesn't really matter to me

if we don't agree on the Trinity


we both know that Jesus is God

so let's leave it at that


after all the Father has given Him all authority ; )