What really is real? [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

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lyubomir

2nd July 2012, 22:06

I start to think that most of this world is absolutely unreal, not just a lie...

What is real?

the_vast_mystery

2nd July 2012, 23:10

The only thing "real" is our experience, and not even our interpretation of that experience. What you see with your eyes, hear with your ears, feel with your skin, etc. are all "real." You can still be hallucinating but that hallucination (although it might not mean what you think it does) is still representative of a real phenomena occurring within your body. So all any of us has is our experience, it's up to us to decide from those experiences what things appear consistently true or "real" to us. That doesn't however preclude that we can learn a great deal about "reality" by observing its many interactions carefully. But as the observer influences the outcome I wonder if there is really any way for us to achieve a true objective standard (truth that is equally true to all things and all people regardless of knowledge/ignorance of it.) That still doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but acknowledge the limitations of such an approach.

Fred Steeves

2nd July 2012, 23:17

What is real?

You Are. If you look for REAL, REAL will find you. Got a mirror handy?

lyubomir

2nd July 2012, 23:20

Good explanation. I also think that my heart can tell me the truth, but how much this true is really true or not base on my experience as you say. Thanks!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hi Fred Steeves,

Do you try to see people on the energy level - can see the sould behind the face? This is real for me.

What do you think?

truthseekerdan

2nd July 2012, 23:27

I start to think that most of this world is absolutely unreal, not just a lie...

What is real?

Everything based on Love is Real.

Everything else is illusion -- see the video below...

eoIBnDRoNsU

lyubomir

2nd July 2012, 23:35

Hi truthseekerdan,

thanks for this video and the time you spent to find it! I will watch it several times again... but It still doesn't cover everything....

Best Regards,

Lyubomir

truthseekerdan

2nd July 2012, 23:47

Hi truthseekerdan,

thanks for this video and the time you spent to find it! I will watch it several times again... but It still doesn't cover everything....

Best Regards,

Lyubomir

Here is another video that has been posted on this forum before...

LJThU1jDT2o

RMorgan

2nd July 2012, 23:49

Hey mate,

Defining the meaning of the word real is very complicated.

Accordingly to Philosophy, real is something that exists independently of ideas concerning it; something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.

So, reality doesn´t necessarily needs an observer in order to remain real, in fact, the most real things can´t be fully understood with our very limited perceptive senses. (I guess)

Reality just is, independently if you like it or not, if you can perceive it or not, if you can define it or not.

This is a classic and very complex philosophical question. Don´t expect, for the sake of your own sanity, that you or someone else will mange to answer it. It should take a long time of collective effort to answer it.

Anyway, it doesn´t hurt that much to simply ask this question. The problem is that you may spend your whole life trying to answer it and finally die without even scratching the surface of this subject (if you don´t lose your mind in the process).

This is one of the human kind´s biggest problems; if we had invested our energy trying to answer these most basic questions, instead of wasting energy inventing useless things and playing stupid power games, I guess things would be quite ok nowadays.

Basically, living without the answer to such questions, is the same thing as playing a very complex game without knowing its most basic rules.

Read some philosophy books. They´ll surely help, but don´t take them too serious as well, because they wont give you the answer.

Now, personally, if you ask my opinion about what is real, what is reality; my answer would be:

- I don´t know.

Cheers,

Raf.

lyubomir

2nd July 2012, 23:57

Hi truthseekerdan - thanks for the 2nd video, it's good.

Hi RMorgan - it's really a wise answer on your side. Thank you! I know that philosopy is the mother of mathematics so there is lots of sense.

To be honest I received very good answers here and I hope that other people with such experience will share their understandings. I will continue to understand how people realize or create the reallity.

About the Love - if it's a way of attitude it could create good feelings but it could be a lie, only people feel this kind of Love - the others forms of Life just follow their instincts so which one is ...

And if you don't understand the world - you may fight for wrong side and still thinking that this the real good ;) Remember the Crusades - why so many people died because truth was presented on other way... What's real not in the sense of understand and in the sense of the microworld...

thanks again folks!

the_vast_mystery

3rd July 2012, 00:12

I start to think that most of this world is absolutely unreal, not just a lie...

What is real?

Everything based on Love is Real.

Everything else is illusion -- see the video below...

eoIBnDRoNsU

The trick in this is that "Love" is a word very open to individual interpretation. To claim that only love is real and especially within the context of denying fear is to deny every individual variation of the word that exists (especially considering you can LOVE to be afraid.) and deny a great many people's "Truth within." To say "Only love is real" is to deceive because that "Love" is not explicitly defined within any communicable framework of concepts. It plays off of our innermost desires for such abstract things (say only "Love" is real and then each person imagines whatever their specific vision of "Love" exists, as being that "Only Real Love" but then the guru or person making proclamations gets to decide what "is or isn't" love, but they never spell it out in an easy-to-understand way because then that could get used against them in the future.)

It's much nicer to say what I think was the original good intention: "The only honest and healthy way to relate to the world is through compassion for one another and doing our level best to practice love in all things." This says the same as the above but without making any ridiculous unfalsifiable statements which might be conflated as in some way actually affecting the physical reality we exist in (beyond influencing in abstract the hearts/minds humans and how they relate to their environment.)

lyubomir

3rd July 2012, 00:34

Vitalux

3rd July 2012, 00:43

I start to think that most of this world is absolutely unreal, not just a lie...

What is real?

Everything is real!!

You are the author of your own book!
Enjoy life and stop looking for bad luck and knocking on wood

the_vast_mystery

3rd July 2012, 01:07

Hi the_vast_mystery,

Thanks for this answer. You explain it very good, abstractive!

What do you think about the Real Matrix, everything has it sense. Not the daily life - the Natural Matrix of World, it's perfect and every form of life has it sense to the whole system. What do you think about it.

I will explain why I am asking you - the whole modern life is based on principles from our Nature, Human body and Brain. Everything is made to keep the balance but for what reason? Keep life, changing the form or just to keep the Life in this form because it's unique and very powerful - what of this world is real...

Thank you in advance!

Kind Regards,

Lyubomir

The world shows us how light/dark, life/death can coexist to create a fully self-sustaining and evolving environment. In short it shows us how all things can have their place (if they are willing to agree to some level of cooperation.) I'd love it a whole lot more though if I actually got to SEE more of it first hand, but I don't really have the time or money for that with my job. I'd love to unplug and maybe take more of it in but I'm trapped within my own rhythms and patterns, more so than I had even originally realized. I'd love to have a break from it all and get a chance to cultivate more of an appreciation for this place...that's hard to do when I have to be at work for 10-12 hours a day and that gives me just enough money to have some spending money after paying for all of my bills (including my, *ahem* medicinal herbs which I need just to make sure I can get to sleep reliably on time.)

But as to civilization, yes in a sense civilization was established on principles which were modeled after observing of nature. The problem was that several critical pieces were left out, namely that we never sought out to study (until very recently) the fullness of how each animal contributes to the overall equilibrium of its ecosystem. A lot of our natural sciences are great at understanding the minutia but we're just figuring some things out with regards to how complicated ecosystems work. I don't believe we were ever able to succeed in creating an artificial ecosystem via bio-domes for instance. So that shows that we really studied all of the least important things first. If we'd started by studying more the complex relation between species of flora/fauna and their environment we might've established a more equitable society. Although there's a good argument that we would've in fact seen such a society if we had not basically committed genocide against the Indigenous peoples already here on the Americas. The Iroquois I've heard, had a system of government that was very similar to our own, but much more democratic.

So all we really need to get society back on track is to re-align our society and its technology around establishing and maintaining good relations, with ourselves, other humans, and most importantly nature. Money, in a lot of ways has been a poison pill, it enabled us to develop civilization much faster by enabling people who are not intimately acquainted to engage in trade with those they might not trust. However its been exploited to such a point that it's also built a civilization very devoid of human trust. I mean yes we trust quite a lot but we put our trust not so much in human beings we know well (trust that's been earned over time) but rather immediately grant it to arbitrary authority (parents, government, etc. Trust is treated as a given that must be rendered to authority.) because those authorities were all necessary in some form to establish our current civilization (because of that monetary paradigm making their formation necessary, this includes the entire concept of the Nuclear Family.) But there's very little trust, people are petty and break off relations with others for insipid reasons and continue trusting abusive authorities (parents/spouses) because they have become so inured to that authority they are now blind to the way out.

The really interesting thing, is nature even tells us quite bluntly how we could solve an enormous amount of our interpersonal problems. We just need to look to our two closest relatives, Chimps and Bonobos to see what we need to do. Chimps are warlike, they will commit rape, murder, infanticide, etc. They share all of our worst qualities, and Bonobos on the other hand are rather calm, peaceful and get along rather well with one another. Why is that? Well...check this thread out (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42566-Sex-at-Dawn-an-Anthropological-Review-of-Sex), and it'll spell it out in far better terms than I ever could. :)

Hughe

3rd July 2012, 01:17

I consider even a thought or imagination is part of life experiences I go through.
What is real or false is irrelevant to me.
My perspective of human existence is just another form of learning experiences for a soul which resides in a organic body temporarily. I know when this body is dead, the soul will start another journey on Earth or different place in space.
So I try to take care of, pay good attention even a dream in sleep. I think remembrance and developing awareness are essential tools for learning.

truthseekerdan

3rd July 2012, 01:19

Hi truthseekerdan - thanks for the 2nd video, it's good.
...
About the Love - if it's a way of attitude it could create good feelings but it could be a lie, only people feel this kind of Love - the others forms of Life just follow their instincts so which one is ...

What we believe produces experience and when we experience our existence only through what we believe, we may have inadvertently imagined uncertainty, which in turn has created fear. When we fully understand this, we begin to understand our inner domain and our whole reality begins to change.

We start to realize that our happiness is not created as a result of certain conditions. Certain conditions are created as a result of our happiness. Love in our life is not created as a result of certain conditions. Certain conditions are created as a result of our love. Compassion is not created as a result of certain conditions. Certain conditions are created as a result of our compassion, et cetera. If we did not have this understanding before, we probably only imagined certain things must occur in order for us to live a more meaningful life.

Tony

3rd July 2012, 07:42

What is real is constant.

Tony

Eagle Eye

3rd July 2012, 07:52

It depends how you define REAL

I say everything is real...

Tony

3rd July 2012, 08:01

It depends how you define REAL

I say everything is real...

Hello Iceberg,

What a great invitation!
No thing can be real!
Every thing has a beginning a middle and an end.............nothing lasts!
So how can they be real, they are all impermanent. They only seem real.

So what is real?
if a thing is 'real' it can never not be real.

So what is real?
Outer empty space and inner empty space (your essence).
Both are not things.

This inner empty space also has a knowing quality, that is the only reality. That never changes...ever!

Tony

Whiskey_Mystic

3rd July 2012, 09:18

Dick discusses the question of what is reality here-

How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later
by Philip K. Dick, 1978 (http://deoxy.org/pkd_how2build.htm)

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
-Phillip K. Dick

"Nothing unreal exists. "
-Kiri-Kin-Tha's first law of metaphysics

David Trd1

3rd July 2012, 09:22

Our state of being.

Simply put.:)

Peace.

RedeZra

3rd July 2012, 10:21

I start to think that most of this world is absolutely unreal, not just a lie...

What is real?

this earth is real

the plants and the animals

we are real

God is uber real

and the devil is a liar

Tony

3rd July 2012, 10:55

Tony

3rd July 2012, 12:01

This is the most important question of ever ever!
Once we find this answer, everything else must be a........................................?

Tony

lyubomir

3rd July 2012, 13:05

TheTwo

3rd July 2012, 13:22

I start to think that most of this world is absolutely unreal, not just a lie...

What is real?

Can you define "what" is asking this question?

RMorgan

3rd July 2012, 13:27

Hello,

very interesting answers and points of view

I understand that reallity is product of how our braind decodes the energy infront and arround us. Everything is energy but our mind and brain make it to look on a specific way. And these results appear because of third party effect like the Sun or something else artificial.

For this reason some people can not be under the global effect or creating reality and they see things on other way - maybe that's the real way or maybe it's something wrong

Because ancient people know it they started to search for solutions like meditation, spiritual practices, mind development and so on - to protect the real people from loosing their mind. But we meet the reality everyday when we open our eyes and we are alive. What about the dreams - are they real? There are some dreams with high effect on me, for me this is real...

So everything is our in mind but what affects it to create something which real for us... Is that understanding of reality is the same as this of the Creator of this world?

I would like to say that it's real pleasure for me discuss theme like this here with all other members of Project Avalon. For me it 's very useful and hope that my opinions are also good for someone.

With all my respect to everyone!

Best Regards,

Lyubomir

Hi again my friend,

I think you misunderstood this part.

When you say that "reallity is product of how our brain decodes the energy infront and arround us", you´re talking about relative reality, which is connected on our abilities to perceive the absolute reality.

The absolute reality exists independently of the observer´s perceptive limitations; it exists absolutely everywhere, even if there´s no single living organism to interact with it.

Relative reality is what many call an "illusion", which isn´t quite an accurate term (relative reality is a better term). Just because our perceptive senses are limited, it doesn´t mean that what we perceive is necessarily an illusion.

As an example, you can fool your cat to think that a rubber mouse attached to a nylon string is a real mouse but it doesn´t mean that every time your cat sees a mouse and chase it, it will be a rubber mouse.

For your cat, if an object looks like a mouse and moves like a mouse, then it´s a mouse. He will only know that the rubber mouse isn´t real when he tries to eat it and perceive that it doesn´t taste like a mouse.

Our senses can be fooled as well. We get fooled and tricked everyday with television, advertising, imposed artificial moral values, etc...

The difference between us and the cat is that since we´re more intelligent, we develop more complex tricks. As an example, we can make artificial lemonade which looks, tastes and smell like real lemonade, but it doesn´t have a single natural lemon ingredient. Then, people in the marketing industry can trick us to believe that this artificial lemonade is 100 times better than real lemonade, sell it for 10 times the costs of real lemonade and convince everyone to buy it.

So, if it looks, smells and tastes like a lemonade, it must be a real lemonade, right? Not necessarily.

What if you take a lemon out of a tree and make a lemonade yourself? Well, then it´s probably real, right? Not necessarily as well. Maybe that fruit just looks, tastes and smells like lemon, but it might be a different fruit.

What if you go to a huge lemon plantation, pick up some lemons and make a lemonade? Well, what if the seed supplier sold the farmer some seeds from a different fruit that looks, tastes and smells like lemon, but isn´t a real lemon? Then you can make a juice out of them, but not real lemonade.

Now, absolute reality transcends our existence and our perception; it´s what it always was, what still is and what will always be.

Cheers,

Raf.

greybeard

3rd July 2012, 13:45

All that can truthfully be said is "I am"

As Pineal is saying find the answer to "What am I and who is asking the question?"
You wont get an answer as it is impossible to know yourself.
We think we know things by comparison--- One without a second has nothing to compare itself with so definition is impossible.

Chris

christian

3rd July 2012, 13:53

Depends on the perspective. If you'd argue, that everything ephemeral is not real, then is this cosmos and its creator not ephemeral as well in a way? It's always the question of what was there first, what is truly without end and beginning, is there such a thing?

The only thing, that I find to be real, is that existence exists. Don't know how, why, where, since when or how long, but stuff is going on, all ephemeral stuff, it seems.

Maybe the real thing is just a principle that is everywhere and nowhere.

Gotta love attempting to answer questions like this here from my current point of view as an earth human :cool:

Tony

4th July 2012, 08:23

When we leave this body, ask the question again.
What is real?
We will not have a body, so no need for any..thing!

We are potentially pure enlightened beings,
but we are still be clothed in ideas.
So we ask the question again. What is real?

It cannot be these ideas, we are so attached to.

So we are pure beings, that know.
That is the reality.

There can be nothing more.

Well, that is not strictly true.
There is still the clothing to wash,
exhausting karma!

Every time we move from being,
we thicken karma.

So reality is in every moment,
of our conduct.
Gradually it can become
clearer and clearer,
or thicker and thicker.

We always have choice.
Choose wisely and we find reality.

Tony

lyubomir

5th July 2012, 17:38

Thanks for the last 3 comments!

All the best,

Lyubomir

DeDukshyn

5th July 2012, 23:18

As far as I'm concerned - the only real thing is your point of perception, the fact that you are a point of perception and that you "experience" in the present moment. Not a damn thing else is "real" but is more of an agreed upon "dream" in a sense.

My 2 cents. ;)

RedeZra

6th July 2012, 11:15

I start to think that most of this world is absolutely unreal, not just a lie...

What is real?

this earth is real

the plants and the animals

we are real

God is uber real

and the devil is a liar

We must have different definitions of real!:rolleyes:

i know Tony

the Biblical view is not like the Buddhic view

we got a God in the bible

and are supposed to stewart this earth

while keeping the Ten Commandments

we got this one life to obey and live godly

then the promise of an eternal life

Knowrainknowrainbows!

6th July 2012, 12:15

This question is a great "mind stretcher" for me today.

My answer is similar to others who answer more eloquently ...

What really is real is whatever one says is.

The 3 "is's" above emphasize the "at the moment" nature of the concept.
The subjectivity of identifying what is real to/for an individual allows differring perspectives.

I'll be pondering this a while.
Thankyou.
KRKR

Carmody

6th July 2012, 17:28

Reclaiming as much as possible, of one's consciousness FROM the autonomous 'placeholder/autopilot' aspects of physical incarnation.

That will help answer this question.

However, it will not be easy, as it is not meant to be so. For a few reasons. One is that most incarnates aren't ready to handle the creationist aspects of their physical point of manifestation and interconnection.

lyubomir

7th July 2012, 23:44

Hello,

What is real not how we see it but and how we feel it and how we understand it.

If a purpose that you beleive told you - The water is the best healing solution, just drink more pure water! You will see in the water it's power, you will fill it as something very precious and you will understand it not just to drink when you thirsty.

What do you think about it my Friends?

Kind Regards,

Lyubomir

ernesto

8th July 2012, 00:01

Here you have another opinion: Real is what you want to be real. We are spiritual beings, with unlimitless knowledge and power, so watever we want to become real it will be!
Even if we decide to think that we do not know, and that we have no power, and that we are insignificant, then we made it true as this reality that we are experiencing now.
Anyway this was possible, because we have no limits which looks contradictory, but it is what I think.
The only way to see it, is looking inside.

Ernesto

lyubomir

8th July 2012, 00:22

Hello everyone,

I am really happy that we can discuss themes like this. This opportunity that we have is very good.

Kind Regards,

Lyubomir