Battle of the Davids

[Moemers]

Icke vs. Wilcock

Battle of the New Century.

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/68992-this-is-what-was-said-months-ago-about-what-was-to-happen-in-april-it-is-now-july-and-yet-another-deadline-passes-

[Limor Wolf]

Geez, we have enough 'battles'. I will say David Icke is airing his thoughts and Wilcock was doing so as well for a long while now, each have a different point of view and different believes and none of them is a person who looks for a fight, but airing some concerens of what happens inside the 'aware' community, if we can call it that, is extremely important since some friends are starting to lose the sight of the road.
It was also linked on the Drake's thread yesterday: post 2962#

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43793-Drake-Updates-clarifications-and-more&p=517880#post517880

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

Icke wins hands down!

[Bill Ryan]

-------

I posted a long statement here, a few weeks ago:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=494483&viewfull=1#post494483

Here's an extract...





My personal view is that he [David Wilcock] is being played, in a clever handy-dandy-multi-purpose psy-op PART of which is intended to discredit him. I have not talked with Kerry recently about this (although I can guess her stance). David was way too quick to jump on the Drake nonsense, and I’m as sure as I can be that this was engineered, with or without Drake’s awareness.

One by one, moves are being made to discredit the key alternative media spokespeople. Take a moment to see it all from this point of view. It’s very ingenious, and very dangerous.


I should also say that the very final statement of this part of David Wilcock's blog here (http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1062-green-light), about David Icke...





I was quite surprised to receive an astonishingly mean-spirited attack from none other than David Icke yesterday, on his public website -- a man whose work I respect.

Within the "government conspiracy" conference circuit, it is well known that David Icke is the top-selling speaker out there -- having transitioned over from working as a top TV sportscaster.

Over the years, several conference organizers who worked with him told me stories of him routinely drawing crowds that numbered between 2000 and 4000 people.

These are admittedly fantastic numbers -- ten times higher than anything I've ever achieved for a private event. No one else, in any related "alternative" field, can even come close to that.

This is a testament to the extraordinary sacrifices and hard work this man has dedicated over the years to informing the public. It did not happen by accident.

Many of my readers have highly benefitted from Icke's analyses and message -- and I have never once said anything negative about him.


... IS NOT TRUE. This is PR and damage control. He may not have said anything negative about David Icke in public -- but his private opinions were critical and dismissive.

Kerry and I did as much as we could to get David Wilcock to speak with David Icke, on- or off-record, following the February 2009 Conscious Life Expo, at which both of whom were speaking. That was just before our own interview of David Icke: the first time we had met him.

David Wilcock was adamant that David Icke was "negative" -- and would not speak to him, or appear on video with him. (He stated the same about Dr Bill Deagle, btw.)

Kerry will confirm this. It's possible that David Wilcock has since modified his views... but that was his clear position in Feb 2009.

[9eagle9]

(shrug shrug)

David W is very much about emotional manipulation and striving to put himself covertly across as the 'put upon, persecuted sainted lightworker'. He's prime for infiltration because he is spiritually immature, he has intellect but no expression of higher or spiritual intelligence.

He has always come across as immature both spiritually and persona wise and his remarks further emphasize how he uses emotional manipulation to project a certain image that doesn't hold water with his behaviors.

And people being as wounded as they are, and unfounded in themselves, align with that.

[Sebastion]

I have to say that I put a lot more stock in what some of the people on this forum have to say than I ever did with David Wilcock. David made his own bed and now he is going to have to sleep in it, whether he likes it or not.

[Fred Steeves]

Funny, this reminds me of a moment when I was fresh and green out of Navy boot camp, and wandered into the smoking area on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. America, out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An old grizzled 1st class petty officer was talking about two warring chief petty officers in his command, and how he thought it best to just not find himself caught in the middle of them.

20 years later, I think I'll just take him up on that advice again.:tape:

Cheers,
Fred

[Bill Ryan]

Funny, this reminds me of a moment when I was fresh and green out of Navy boot camp, and wandered into the smoking area on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. America, out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An old grizzled 1st class petty officer was talking about two warring chief petty officers in his command, and how he thought it best to just not find himself caught in the middle of them.

20 years later, I think I'll just take him up on that advice again.:tape:

Cheers,
Fred


Depends what the 'war' is/was about. Sometimes it takes more courage and principle to make a clear stand than it does to stay on the sidelines and not get involved.

[Christine]

Hi all,

I am hopeful that this thread will find it's quiet and quick demise. This is not a battle between two David's, they only stand as metaphors for the internal battle raging in all of us collectively. Let's not turn this into a "People" magazine flap between two celebrities. How much more energy are we going to generate over this so that the PTB can continue to divert us from our REAL goals and purpose!

I am biting my tongue to not add fuel to the fire here, yes I have a strong opinion and yes it is obvious to me what is happening. To any self aware being with a good deal of life experience under their belt it is more than apparent who is playing into the hands of the manipulators...

That said, let's not go there ourselves.

"Know Thyself, first axiom of truth."

La Tigra

[mattymoto]

Funny, this reminds me of a moment when I was fresh and green out of Navy boot camp, and wandered into the smoking area on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. America, out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An old grizzled 1st class petty officer was talking about two warring chief petty officers in his command, and how he thought it best to just not find himself caught in the middle of them.

20 years later, I think I'll just take him up on that advice again.:tape:

Cheers,
Fred


Depends what the 'war' is/was about. Sometimes it takes more courage and principle to make a clear stand than it does to stay on the sidelines and not get involved.


With all due respect, Bill. IMO This whole idea of pointing fingers calling "bollocks" is serving no purpose other than "divide and conquer." As much as I respect what D. Icke has said in the past, the more I examine this situation, it is causing more negativity than productivity. I try to soak-in information without judgement, but my ego does at times get in my own way of progress and process.

[Bill Ryan]

Funny, this reminds me of a moment when I was fresh and green out of Navy boot camp, and wandered into the smoking area on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. America, out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An old grizzled 1st class petty officer was talking about two warring chief petty officers in his command, and how he thought it best to just not find himself caught in the middle of them.

20 years later, I think I'll just take him up on that advice again.:tape:

Cheers,
Fred


Depends what the 'war' is/was about. Sometimes it takes more courage and principle to make a clear stand than it does to stay on the sidelines and not get involved.


With all due respect, Bill. IMO This whole idea of pointing fingers calling "bollocks" is serving no purpose other than "divide and conquer." As much as I respect what D. Icke has said in the past, the more I examine this situation, it is causing more negativity than productivity. I try to soak-in information without judgement, but my ego does at times get in my own way of progress and process.

Hundreds of thousands of people were wasting a total of many millions of person-hours -- all of which could have been better occupied.

This is what the mainstream media does. That was the problem.

[Libra]

I got Wilcock's book The Source Field Investigations. Very good collection of research, some nice writing and some interesting semi conclusions. I like the guy, he stays comfortable and is always avoiding stepping on some real toes. I kept up to date with the guy and the more I watched the more my eyebrow raised at his writing and associations. I've watched Icke first on Project Camelot and I thought this guy can speak but man is he full of ****. Then as I watched and read more about the guy I realised this guy is the real deal. Now, this may seem like I'm taking sides. I'm not. Icke got a few things wrong along the way as he rediscovered himself. Wilcock is certainly doing the same. Icke to me is fearless. Wilcock is fearful.

What really gets me with Wilcock is the constant promise of new material and then the promotion of his next musical opus/conference. As I've said i like the guy however the miracle elixir salesman side of him gets a bit much after three years. This is certainly the influence of the discredit operation against him. The whole thing, the divide and conquer strategy being executed on all UFO, Conspiracy and Alternative News is very obvious. It was easy to see as I took a break from the internet for a few months and came back to a rather irritable bunch on the forums. Some of the regulars on this forum had gone. Some died. The few months I took was to complete a project with a lot of responsibility. Towards the end it felt like the Universe itself was out to stop me completing my work. Knuckled down and I finished it. At times like that you truly see what you are made of. That is what is going on here. All the bull is being called what it really is. The strong are standing up and this will definitely affect those who have been compromised to wonder how it happened. Icke might be unaware of this but he is testing Wilcock's resolve. The fact Icke is saying these things is a sign he cares and isn't using another's similar opinion to bolster his own. And I hasten to add it is this Drake character Icke is really addressing.

So come on David Wilcock, show us what you're really made of.

[ulli]

Could this be an elaborate hoax?
Internet hoaxes have been around for a while.
This just came in from Forbidden Knowledge TV, and I vaguely remember the Titor event.
The Drake thing will probably be remembered just like that one day.


"A classic internet hoax! A US Army Captain from the year 2036 named John Titor appears on internet message boards in November 2000. He describes time travel and he distributes a manual for his time travel machine, the Army issue General Electric C240 Time Displacement Unit!

His Internet posts describe the device as being installed in the rear of a 1967 Chevrolet Corvette convertible and later moved to a 1987 truck having four-wheel drive...hey, haven't we heard that one before?"

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/time-travel/internet-time-traveler.html

[LarryC]

I like a lot of Icke's work, but considering some of the ideas he's promoted over the years, he should think before making fun of someone else. I recall about 10 years ago, when he was mainly focusing on the Reptilian angle, he was saying that the elite would soon no longer be able to hide their alien nature. They were supposed to shapeshift in public, and we were getting ready to see politicians and newscasters turn into lizard people on TV. I don't doubt that many of them do have a Reptilian influence, but even Icke is now interpreting that in a less literal, physical manner.

Even the most brilliant researchers in these fields cannot be right about everything, and sometimes even when they appear to be wrong there may be an underlying truth to it that isn't obvious. And, unfortunately, there is also the issue of ego battles between people who are treated like gurus by many people -and this certainly includes both Icke and Wilcock. So I'm definitely not about to choose sides here. I will remain open yet skeptical of anything either of them says.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Could this be an elaborate hoax?
Internet hoaxes have been around for a while.
This just came in from Forbidden Knowledge TV, and I vaguely remember the Titor event.
The Drake thing will probably be remembered just like that one day.


"A classic internet hoax! A US Army Captain from the year 2036 named John Titor appears on internet message boards in November 2000. He describes time travel and he distributes a manual for his time travel machine, the Army issue General Electric C240 Time Displacement Unit!

His Internet posts describe the device as being installed in the rear of a 1967 Chevrolet Corvette convertible and later moved to a 1987 truck having four-wheel drive...hey, haven't we heard that one before?"

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/time-travel/internet-time-traveler.html

Do a quick Google on this. It is an old and now classic story familiar to the old Art Bell crowd. I do think it is a hoax, though I know many believe it to be real and there are a few good reasons to believe it. Primarily, that Titor had very specialized knowledge about the capabilities of an old IBM computer he was after. I looked into this story closely and I don't ever remember a mention of him mounting his time travel device on a car. I think Marty McFly is just pulling your leg. 1.21 Giggawatts!

[KosmicKat]

Distraction!

When you find something that rings an internal bell, do whatever you can to search for further evidence. Some of D.W.'s research suggests there is a lot more we can learn on certain subjects. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And be aware, that according to one MSM news report, the flow of dis-information is being ramped up.

[ghostrider]

Geez, we have enough 'battles'. I will say David Icke is airing his thoughts and Wilcock was doing so as well for a long while now, each have a different point of view and different believes and none of them is a person who looks for a fight, but airing some concerens of what happens inside the 'aware' community, if we can call it that, is extremely important since some friends are starting to lose the sight of the road.
It was also linked on the Drake's thread yesterday: post 2962#

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43793-Drake-Updates-clarifications-and-more&p=517880#post517880

I was just thinking the same thing. lets keep our unity , and still allow everyone to share their perception. the road will lead to the same place no matter what detour is taken.:cool:

[mattymoto]

Funny, this reminds me of a moment when I was fresh and green out of Navy boot camp, and wandered into the smoking area on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. America, out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An old grizzled 1st class petty officer was talking about two warring chief petty officers in his command, and how he thought it best to just not find himself caught in the middle of them.

20 years later, I think I'll just take him up on that advice again.:tape:

Cheers,
Fred


Depends what the 'war' is/was about. Sometimes it takes more courage and principle to make a clear stand than it does to stay on the sidelines and not get involved.


With all due respect, Bill. IMO This whole idea of pointing fingers calling "bollocks" is serving no purpose other than "divide and conquer." As much as I respect what D. Icke has said in the past, the more I examine this situation, it is causing more negativity than productivity. I try to soak-in information without judgement, but my ego does at times get in my own way of progress and process.

Hundreds of thousands of people were wasting a total of many millions of person-hours -- all of which could have been better occupied.

This is what the mainstream media does. That was the problem.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by wasted person-hours? I certainly don't know what these people were doing before opening up to "other than MSM", and pardon me for stating bluntly that D. Icke, yourself, nor D. Wilcock could possibly have known what the "hundreds of thousands of people" you mention were devoting their attention to before "the Drake stuff".

If I'm wrong, then perhaps you, or D. Icke must know soomething factual that neither of you have shared publicly.

Bill, you have always been somewhat of level headed beacon of light for me during my somewhat turbulent learning process, yet now you have me fairly confused.

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by mattymoto: " With all due respect, Bill. IMO This whole idea of pointing fingers calling "bollocks" is serving no purpose other than "divide and conquer." As much as I respect what D. Icke has said in the past, the more I examine this situation, it is causing more negativity than productivity. I try to soak-in information without judgement, but my ego does at times get in my own way of progress and process. "


" now you have me fairly confused "

David Icke has a strightforword way to say things (I would say he is Israeli rather then a british gentleman.. but do not tell on me! :) he flashes the light right at the core of the problem. people do not always find it convenient to stare, but thats the way to go. Of course, if it was'nt an ongoing saga who has trmendous implications in this very important time, where we - the 'pioneers', are suppose to point on the the way to others, the comments would probably sound less severe.

There is something going on here. we are, (as was fully expected from the beggining days of group awakenings around the world) being driven to get out of the trail and far from where the truth can be found. That is pretty normal that the PTB interests are like that, they did invest quite a lot of time, thinking and implementing to be honest, and there is this mass awakening that threaten their race to the cup! their fingers almost touching it... they don't want us to succeed. we, on the other hand, think ,there is quite a lot on the line, we are quite certain to a point of a 100% certainty that there is a better way to handle the world and it's diversified inhbitants. so, do you understand, mattymoto, there is a need to shout. to shout to all the good people that we are getting off- course. it is important

Don't despair , what you hear is the voice of urgency, to call to all those who know that change is needed to take their position. it can not happen if the participants are not in the correct starting position...

[ulli]

Could this be an elaborate hoax?
Internet hoaxes have been around for a while.
This just came in from Forbidden Knowledge TV, and I vaguely remember the Titor event.
The Drake thing will probably be remembered just like that one day.


"A classic internet hoax! A US Army Captain from the year 2036 named John Titor appears on internet message boards in November 2000. He describes time travel and he distributes a manual for his time travel machine, the Army issue General Electric C240 Time Displacement Unit!

His Internet posts describe the device as being installed in the rear of a 1967 Chevrolet Corvette convertible and later moved to a 1987 truck having four-wheel drive...hey, haven't we heard that one before?"

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/time-travel/internet-time-traveler.html

Do a quick Google on this. It is an old and now classic story familiar to the old Art Bell crowd. I do think it is a hoax, though I know many believe it to be real and there are a few good reasons to believe it. Primarily, that Titor had very specialized knowledge about the capabilities of an old IBM computer he was after. I looked into this story closely and I don't ever remember a mention of him mounting his time travel device on a car. I think Marty McFly is just pulling your leg. 1.21 Giggawatts!

Yeah the car-mounted part I was not familiar with either...
maybe they added that after watching Back To The Future.
Time travel is known for distorting a few minor details :)

[foreverfan]

HITLER FINDS OUT THAT DRAKE 4th OF JULY GREEN LIGHT DOES NOT HAPPEN (http://meemsy.com/v/2650)

[mattymoto]

Drake may have "used" some really flashy attention getting tactics which in the end may make him look the fool, but he did take the opportunity to turn people on to what some of us were already paying attention to. (lies of government, hidden tech, and the presence of other-than earth beings..to name a few)

It's almost as if he knew this would damage his street cred, but was willing to do it anyway. IMO if he succeeded in getting only 1 sheeple to pay attention to things that they were otherwise oblivious to-- then he did just that, he succeeded. I'm not saying Drake is right or wrong, or anyone for that matter, but we should look at the possibilty that he may have "taken a dive" just to raise awareness of some potential inhumane activities. Whether we want to admit it or not, he got some people somewhere looking where they may never have before.

[Elly]

This is not a battle between two David's, they only stand as metaphors for the internal battle raging in all of us collectively. Let's not turn this into a "People" magazine flap between two celebrities. How much more energy are we going to generate over this so that the PTB can continue to divert us from our REAL goals and purpose!

So true La Tigra.

I see a reproduction of behavior. Society is already being fed propaganda and distractions, and now, it seems the alternative community is following the same path as mainstream society. Why delving into this distraction? If the collective of supposed ''aware'' individuals is unable to exercise more discernment, what does this say about it? What are we really yearning for?

What is needed is a revolution of the mind. We need to change our thinking and our perception. But what I understand of this saga (which I vaguely followed on Avalon) is that the alternative community is being aligned with mainstream society in the way we process information, the way we react to it, and the way we use it (distraction).

...And I believe that we need to change our focus in the way Limor clearly expressed in her post #2962 of this thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43793-Drake-Updates-clarifications-and-more&p=517880#post517880


The wisest things for those of us who are awake to do right now, and it takes a different curve from the beggining days of Camelot while we recieved some incredible, eye opening information, is that we now KNOW. the diagnosis is clear and we need the cure before the patient risks dying. we may want to start and work ourselves towords OUR OWN GOAL, to vision, to plan, to change what is needed a change in our lives, to concentrate on building something new. to have our own vision and our own 'agenda'. to keep it infront of us 24/7 and to not settle for anything else than being our own free sovereign beings, and to alert others to the same cause. I think that the period of clinging to whistleblowers every word for information is almost over (alas, there is still some important insiders information that needs to get out in some areas that are shrouded in fog), but our learning period (of the 'earth challenge') is mostly over for most Avalon members, and an Implementing period is now needed while we gain the momentum. good luck to us, we need it, but it IS within our capabilities, if we only pay attention to the road and to the destination.

[indigopete]

I think the instigator of this thread is trying to stir up melodrama where there is none.

I posted this on another thread which seems now to be even more appropriate here . . . http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43793-Drake-Updates-clarifications-and-more&p=517976&viewfull=1#post517976

[Limor Wolf]

Drake may have "used" some really flashy attention getting tactics which in the end may make him look the fool, but he did take the opportunity to turn people on to what some of us were already paying attention to. (lies of government, hidden tech, and the presence of other-than earth beings..to name a few)

It's almost as if he knew this would damage his street cred, but was willing to do it anyway. IMO if he succeeded in getting only 1 sheeple to pay attention to things that they were otherwise oblivious to-- then he did just that, he succeeded. I'm not saying Drake is right or wrong, or anyone for that matter, but we should look at the possibilty that he may have "taken a dive" just to raise awareness of some potential inhumane activities. Whether we want to admit it or not, he got some people somewhere looking where they may never have before.

He was also wrong, and together with Fulford, provided some incorrect information that held people by their tales for a long time. it is an effective tactic of the PTB. maybe a little less 'invested emotions' in the whistleblowers themselves (if they are real, they will get their 'reward') and being cautious, even sitting on the fence if needed is a good enough reaction. Another thing that is hard to miss is the enormouse amount of time invested by people to continuously analyze pro and against, will happen/will not happen, and it is done in circles for days... If we do get to hear some so called information/prediction/intention, and we don't know whether it holds a base or not, we can always file it in our ' maybe' drawer and check on it every now and than. that is a healthy process that gives enough respect for those who dare to go out and talk (bless them) and enough respect for ourselves (not less important). these times are really challenging, it is as if we are in a river with a strong currents flowing in all directions, and we need to try and calmly calculate what is the best stream to bring us safely to our destination. let's not leave the river bank untill we recognize the path to where we want to arrive. And we might want to keep our energy while at it.

[Camilo]

They both have valid point s of view and well researched, the only problem is to try and predict specific events happening on a given time frame in a reality shaped by mass consciousness. It shouldn't go beyond the informative aspect, and people shouldn't distorted into something else.

[Billy]

Lordy Battle of the David's is it now. D Day takes on a new meaning with more drama and distractions.

I like David Icke and always have but when David Icke started out on his mission he Prophecisied and gave dates only to be debunked later and was laughed at by the media and the public. He was passionate about his mission. His lesson was learned. Do not prophecy or give dates.

In my view David Icke has an understanding as to where Drake is coming from. Drake maybe could have learned from David's past experiences concerning prophecy and dates. But no.

maybe a bit of reflection on David Icke's part on his own past experience may be helpful in bringing foreward a more compassionate outlook towards others efforts.

Like i have said a few times. It is not about Drake, David Icke, David Wilcox, Bejamin F, Cobra, or whoever is the new kid on the block at any given time.

It is all about you.

Peace

[Finefeather]

I have listened to both very carefully for some time and found, first:
They are both very bad at the technical side of spiritual truths. What I mean here is they make statements that are quite obviously not correct and not in accordance with known enlightened truths.
This brings me then only to the messages, about the state of the world, they deliver, to determine who is of more value in the war between the light and dark forces.
IMO David Icke is far more effective in his approach and delivery, and far more likely to make you turn your head.
When I watch David W I always get the feeling we are just about to go into an add break for hair spray or some other cosmetic product. ;)
Yes I am been a little sarcastic about David W but then he seems to bring it on himself with his constant referrals to his best selling book etc, his ego is alive and very well.
David Icke on the other hand is like the guy you might meet in the pub down the road, and although he too pushes his books, they are IMO much more shocking and to the point of what is really our biggest problem we need to get rid of.
I need to point out however that IMO David W has probably turned more people into truth seekers than we might just imagine because he is good on the eye (I'm straight :cool:) for some, presents well, and his basic message is still broadly to overturn the cabal, and that is all that matters really, does'nt it?
So I think we would do well to have and keep them both on our side.

[mattymoto]

Drake may have "used" some really flashy attention getting tactics which in the end may make him look the fool, but he did take the opportunity to turn people on to what some of us were already paying attention to. (lies of government, hidden tech, and the presence of other-than earth beings..to name a few)

It's almost as if he knew this would damage his street cred, but was willing to do it anyway. IMO if he succeeded in getting only 1 sheeple to pay attention to things that they were otherwise oblivious to-- then he did just that, he succeeded. I'm not saying Drake is right or wrong, or anyone for that matter, but we should look at the possibilty that he may have "taken a dive" just to raise awareness of some potential inhumane activities. Whether we want to admit it or not, he got some people somewhere looking where they may never have before.

He was also wrong, and together with Fulford, provided some incorrect information that held people by their tales for a long time. it is an effective tactic of the PTB. maybe a little less 'invested emotions' in the whistleblowers themselves (if they are real, they will get their 'reward') and being cautious, even sitting on the fence if needed is a good enough reaction. Another thing that is hard to miss is the enormouse amount of time invested by people to continuously analyze pro and against, will happen/will not happen, and it is done in circles for days... If we do get to hear some so called information/prediction/intention, and we don't know whether it holds a base or not, we can always file it in our ' maybe' drawer and check on it every now and than. that is a healthy process that gives enough respect for those who dare to go out and talk (bless them) and enough respect for ourselves (not less important). these times are really challenging, it is as if we are in a river with a strong currents flowing in all directions, and we need to try and calmly calculate what is the best stream to bring us safely to our destination. let's not leave the river bank untill we recognize the path to where we want to arrive. And we might want to keep our energy while at it.

I have to disagree with your absolution and assertion of presumption in the nicest way possible.

[9eagle9]

Don't be silly there can be no battle of the Davids, one David would be crying before the gauntlet was thrown down. Then there'd be a great radio broadcast about Icke tried to beat Wilcocks up and none of us want to listen to that again.

[gripreaper]

Watch out for the Hegelian Dialectic:

http://nord.twu.net/acl/images/hegel.gif

What anti-thesis is being introduced to create a new synthesis which brings the elite closer to the desired outcome? Being discerning means standing back from the canvas and not focusing on the individual pixels and how they interrelate, or not. The salient point from all this, in my opinion (qualifying disclaimer) is:

What is happening to the alternative media? It is being discredited and dismantled right before our eyes.

Why are the second tier global elite being targeted? Is this the Reichstag of the engineered collapse?

Let's not miss the bigger picture because we are too busy looking at the individual pixels. We need our own synthesis without any thesis or anti-thesis of divisiveness fed to us.

[SilentFeathers]

-------

I posted a long statement here, a few weeks ago:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=494483&viewfull=1#post494483

Here's an extract...





My personal view is that he [David Wilcock] is being played, in a clever handy-dandy-multi-purpose psy-op PART of which is intended to discredit him. I have not talked with Kerry recently about this (although I can guess her stance). David was way too quick to jump on the Drake nonsense, and I’m as sure as I can be that this was engineered, with or without Drake’s awareness.

One by one, moves are being made to discredit the key alternative media spokespeople. Take a moment to see it all from this point of view. It’s very ingenious, and very dangerous.

I agree to a certain extent, but in my own personal opinion, especially after reading his latest blog, it would "seem" that he may be very well aware that he was being played or actually had a major part in the "playing of many"......he's back-peddling big time in this latest blog and also in my opinion, loving every second of attention he is getting regardless.....
(But I am speculating, as I do not personally know him).

Playing others: Some do it for ego and some do it for money.....and then there are those that do it for ego and money......some even do it just for the hell of it......

[gripreaper]

I agree to a certain extent, but in my own personal opinion, especially after reading his latest blog, it would "seem" that he may be very well aware that he was being played or actually had a major part in the "playing of many"......he's back-peddling big time in this latest blog and also in my opinion, loving every second of attention he is getting regardless.....
(But I am speculating, as I do not personally know him).

I'm sensing that too, that Wilcock is backpedaling some from the Drake scenario.


HITLER FINDS OUT THAT DRAKE 4th OF JULY GREEN LIGHT DOES NOT HAPPEN (http://meemsy.com/v/2650)

This has been parked at the top of his comments section since early yesterday. I don't know what that means, but I find it curious.

[Ol' Roy]

Time will tell. As Bill says millions of hours are focused on who is right. I have spent a lot of hours on this at this forum, and just contemplating who is wrong and who is right.
Bottom line is what have I done to make MY COMMUNITY a better place? It goes all the way back to my Boy Scout days. Integrity is of upmost importance!

[LarryC]

<< What anti-thesis is being introduced to create a new synthesis which brings the elite closer to the desired outcome? >>

I spent years studying conspiracy theories that originated from books like None Dare Call It Conspiracy and the John Birch Society, so I'm quite familiar with this way of thinking. The idea that the elite use Hegelian dialectic to further their agenda is very likely true. However, I also think that on a deeper level that this is also the way the whole universe works. Synthesizing opposing viewpoints is part of how we make sense of the world, and how things evolve. What's the alternative, except to stay locked in a rigid point of view that sees the opposing side as the enemy?

Hegel may have inspired movements such as communism, but that doesn't mean he was wrong about everything. The idea that history should "unfold and progress" isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's a direction of our choosing. We should be aware of dialectics set up to deceive us -such as left vs. right. These can be seen as false dialectics, as the same forces are behind what appear to be opposites. Whereas, in nature we can see that polarities such as positive and negative (as in particles) and male and female must interact in harmony for life to go on.

Hegel's idea of "the ultimate synthesis" is consistent with the mystic's desire to be one with God and which is also another way of saying enlightenment or ascension. If the elite use the process of dialectic, it may be because it's a natural way for our minds to work and for the universe to unfold. So we should be on our guard when presented with a dialectic or opposition, but that doesn't mean the whole process is evil in itself.

[Carmody]

I managed to get into trouble with the ptb types back in 2005, for one reason. I advised people to drop the discussion and get into it. Physically. In the real world.

Stop with the mental masturbation and get on with it.

Do. real. things.

[GaelVictor]

HITLER FINDS OUT THAT DRAKE 4th OF JULY GREEN LIGHT DOES NOT HAPPEN (http://meemsy.com/v/2650)

This has been parked at the top of his comments section since early yesterday. I don't know what that means, but I find it curious.

''Sprinkling stardust, to kill the cabal'' This scene from Der Untergang is once again put to hilarious use ;)

[ThePythonicCow]

Watch out for the Hegelian Dialectic:


What anti-thesis is being introduced to create a new synthesis which brings the elite closer to the desired outcome? Being discerning means standing back from the canvas and not focusing on the individual pixels and how they interrelate, or not. The salient point from all this, in my opinion (qualifying disclaimer) is:

What is happening to the alternative media? It is being discredited and dismantled right before our eyes.

Why are the second tier global elite being targeted? Is this the Reichstag of the engineered collapse?

Let's not miss the bigger picture because we are too busy looking at the individual pixels. We need our own synthesis without any thesis or anti-thesis of divisiveness fed to us.

Same thing I'm wondering ... well said.

[Limor Wolf]

He was also wrong, and together with Fulford, provided some incorrect information that held people by their tales for a long time. it is an effective tactic of the PTB. maybe a little less 'invested emotions' in the whistleblowers themselves (if they are real, they will get their 'reward') and being cautious, even sitting on the fence if needed is a good enough reaction. Another thing that is hard to miss is the enormouse amount of time invested by people to continuously analyze pro and against, will happen/will not happen, and it is done in circles for days... If we do get to hear some so called information/prediction/intention, and we don't know whether it holds a base or not, we can always file it in our ' maybe' drawer and check on it every now and than. that is a healthy process that gives enough respect for those who dare to go out and talk (bless them) and enough respect for ourselves (not less important). these times are really challenging, it is as if we are in a river with a strong currents flowing in all directions, and we need to try and calmly calculate what is the best stream to bring us safely to our destination. let's not leave the river bank untill we recognize the path to where we want to arrive. And we might want to keep our energy while at it.

I have to disagree with your absolution and assertion of presumption in the nicest way possible.

Well, that puts me in trouble :

" It is impossible to persuade a man who does not disagree, but smiles "

:-)

[Ultima Thule]

I guess the ptb play the same trick of "let´s give them a deadline from a reliable source" over and over again and "let´s see how many times they swallow it". As long it is swallowed, they have no reason to even turn to the second page in their trick book. I am afraid that possibly this approach leaves us alternative people on the whole on the first page of the book while we constantly fool ourselves to be on the very last page. Darn effective tactics - we are like fishes in an aquarium:"Oh look - a rock, nice... Oh, a rock, looking good... Hey, there is a rock there, how beautiful... A rock - how clever!"

UT

ps. and that Hitler-clip is simply brilliant!!!

[jaybee]

-------

I posted a long statement here, a few weeks ago:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45478-David-Wilcock-s-False-Predictions&p=494483&viewfull=1#post494483

Here's an extract...





My personal view is that he [David Wilcock] is being played, in a clever handy-dandy-multi-purpose psy-op PART of which is intended to discredit him. I have not talked with Kerry recently about this (although I can guess her stance). David was way too quick to jump on the Drake nonsense, and I’m as sure as I can be that this was engineered, with or without Drake’s awareness.

One by one, moves are being made to discredit the key alternative media spokespeople. Take a moment to see it all from this point of view. It’s very ingenious, and very dangerous.


I should also say that the very final statement of this part of David Wilcock's blog here (http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1062-green-light), about David Icke...





I was quite surprised to receive an astonishingly mean-spirited attack from none other than David Icke yesterday, on his public website -- a man whose work I respect.

Within the "government conspiracy" conference circuit, it is well known that David Icke is the top-selling speaker out there -- having transitioned over from working as a top TV sportscaster.

Over the years, several conference organizers who worked with him told me stories of him routinely drawing crowds that numbered between 2000 and 4000 people.

These are admittedly fantastic numbers -- ten times higher than anything I've ever achieved for a private event. No one else, in any related "alternative" field, can even come close to that.

This is a testament to the extraordinary sacrifices and hard work this man has dedicated over the years to informing the public. It did not happen by accident.

Many of my readers have highly benefitted from Icke's analyses and message -- and I have never once said anything negative about him.


... IS NOT TRUE. This is PR and damage control. He may not have said anything negative about David Icke in public -- but his private opinions were critical and dismissive.

Kerry and I did as much as we could to get David Wilcock to speak with David Icke, on- or off-record, following the February 2009 Conscious Life Expo, at which both of whom were speaking. That was just before our own interview of David Icke: the first time we had met him.

David Wilcock was adamant that David Icke was "negative" -- and would not speak to him, or appear on video with him. (He stated the same about Dr Bill Deagle, btw.)

Kerry will confirm this. It's possible that David Wilcock has since modified his views... but that was his clear position in Feb 2009.


shouldn't private opinions, made in private...be kept private...?


I expect Wilcock's public and private views about Icke are a lot more complex than has been expressed in your post, Bill...


My view is that Wilcock has the good sense not to diss another major player in the Alternative Arena...publically....even though he might privately have concerns.


Divide and rule....divide and rule...I think Wilcock is more mindful of the damage this can do....than some other major players.


Bet the con-troll-ers are loving this thead...?....yes...?


.

[Humble Janitor]

Icke vs. Wilcock

Battle of the New Century.

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/68992-this-is-what-was-said-months-ago-about-what-was-to-happen-in-april-it-is-now-july-and-yet-another-deadline-passes-

Icke has the nerve to criticize Wilcock when Icke has made money off promoting the reptilian fantasy.

Both are hacks that deserve to be laughed out of wherever they end up.

I liked Wilcock at one point but I'm tired of him and Fulford pushing this "mass arrest" **** when nothing is materializing in the mainstream.

[Humble Janitor]

@Bill Ryan- There is no movement to discredit the "alternative" movement.

It has discredited itself by promoting con artists and "new-age quacks".

These personalities have lost sight of the most important, critical element in this "alternative" media: THE TRUTH!

So while they attack each other and feed their egos, the truth is forgotten.

I once bought into the **** spewed by many people. I still have hope but you can only listen to "change coming soon! change coming soon! Sorry, our change didn't happen because of xyz" so many times before one becomes cynical.

[Sierra]

I have to disagree with your absolution and assertion of presumption in the nicest way possible.

Well, that puts me in trouble :

" It is impossible to persuade a man who does not disagree, but smiles "

:-)

Limor, who are you quoting?

Sierra

[Bill Ryan]

I have to disagree with your absolution and assertion of presumption in the nicest way possible.

Well, that puts me in trouble :

" It is impossible to persuade a man who does not disagree, but smiles "

:-)

Limor, who are you quoting?

Sierra

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22It+is+impossible+to+persuade+a+man+who+does+not+disagree%2C+but+smiles%22

[Sierra]

Well, that puts me in trouble :

" It is impossible to persuade a man who does not disagree, but smiles "

:-)

Limor, who are you quoting?

Sierra

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22It+is+impossible+to+persuade+a+man+who+does+not+disagree%2C+but+smiles%22

Ah! Muriel Sparks, the author of The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie!. I haven't read the book, but I've seen the move at least ten times.

[Limor Wolf]

I have to disagree with your absolution and assertion of presumption in the nicest way possible.

Well, that puts me in trouble :

" It is impossible to persuade a man who does not disagree, but smiles "

:-)

Limor, who are you quoting?

Sierra

Scotish novelis Muriel Spark, remeber the wonderful "The Prime of miss Jean Brodie", played by Maggie Smith? she is the author. Bill seems to know how to pull rabbits out of the hat , how did you do this trick with the link, Bill, I would be very pleased to find out ~


Sorry about that.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Re: above Sierra's post, now that is what is called synchronicity!
Love those

[ThePythonicCow]

These personalities have lost sight of the most important, critical element in this "alternative" media: THE TRUTH!
Well, you might allow as how those of us in the alternative media have had a little assistance in losing track of the truth, thanks to the smoke machines of the bastards in power.

[Bill Ryan]

I have to disagree with your absolution and assertion of presumption in the nicest way possible.

Well, that puts me in trouble :

" It is impossible to persuade a man who does not disagree, but smiles "

:-)

Limor, who are you quoting?

Sierra

Scotish novelist Muriel Spark, remember the wonderful "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie", played by Maggie Smith? She is the author. Bill seems to know how to pull rabbits out of the hat, how did you do this trick with the link, Bill, I would be very pleased to find out ~


http://lmgtfy.com :)

[Limor Wolf]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=got+it+%3A)+

[peace]

i find it hilarious that anyone takes either of "the davids" seriously.

was it deagle david w. admitted to tape recording conversations of, which he apologized for while breaking down after his 'life was threatened?'

are people finally starting to see the holes in this guys presentation of "facts" and his keen ability to save face and make PR moves?

either way, how many conversations of yours, bill, do you think david has tucked away, covertly recorded - which he may release some "new" information he, only he, came across ... ? has he already? usually written in his, "you heard it here first/i've come across this information through my several high-level witnesses."

folks like this cannot be trusted. think about your personal life. if it was someone you knew, doing this to you, in one way or another, would you keep them in your life? of course not.

and once again, for the record: this is not intended as a mean spirited slam. it's what we've all watched him do or heard him say. why i keep repeating it is people still seem to trust the guy.

even so much as reporting the backlash against him has been hard on him. of course it has. he's gotten away with lying for a while. it's a nice PR move for sympathy. :frusty:

and once again, for the record: he's probably, deep down, and o.k. guy. he just needs to stop with the grandiose things he reports, and needs to realize people are being manipulated by his lies and really putting a lot of time and energy into his writings that are based on nothing. it's sad.

who's doing more harm? me (and others) calling it out or him doing it?

:frusty::frusty:

[9eagle9]

Guru's are not meant to be taken seriously on a personal level, what they are saying should be taken into consideration and either accepted as reasonable information, or not reasonable. Neither of these men would be gurus unless their fans had made them so. That is taking them seriously by making them personal unto one.

[peace]

Guru's are not meant to be taken seriously on a personal level, what they are saying should be taken into consideration and either accepted as reasonable information, or not reasonable. Neither of these men would be gurus unless their fans had made them so. That is taking them seriously by making them personal unto one.

then NOT REASONABLE for the both of them.

i agree, both have followers that have raised them to 'guru' status and these followers defend them to the point of, what i would consider, a cult like fevor.

and THAT'S where i get worried.

too many promises, "i channeled this," "i have a source high up, trust me," and fear based practices. (EVIL REPTILES, REALLY?)

IF WE ARE SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER: "IT IS TIME TO WAKE UP"

well ...

'tis time.

[zebowho]

....
There is something going on here. we are, (as was fully expected from the beggining days of group awakenings around the world) being driven to get out of the trail and far from where the truth can be found. That is pretty normal that the PTB interests are like that, they did invest quite a lot of time, thinking and implementing to be honest, and there is this mass awakening that threaten their race to the cup! their fingers almost touching it... they don't want us to succeed. we, on the other hand, think ,there is quite a lot on the line, we are quite certain to a point of a 100% certainty that there is a better way to handle the world and it's diversified inhbitants. so, do you understand, mattymoto, there is a need to shout. to shout to all the good people that we are getting off- course. it is important

...


I managed to get into trouble with the ptb types back in 2005, for one reason. I advised people to drop the discussion and get into it. Physically. In the real world.

Stop with the mental masturbation and get on with it.

Do. real. things.

I don't think the "alternative community" has gotten the memo yet. Most are still too focused on someone elses opinion and where they can get the book/vid!

This isn't to knock the alternative personalities, some real good information has seen the light of day because of them but here's the rub, and its a biggie, look out the window, all we have to do is look. Things are so bad and are so blatant, "insiders" are probably even thinking...."Really?"

Anyway, I wasn't going to post in this thread but had to when I read yours above Limor and Carmody. Simply Brilliant and there is a message there, will it be heard?!

-z

[SilentFeathers]

@Bill Ryan- There is no movement to discredit the "alternative" movement.

It has discredited itself by promoting con artists and "new-age quacks".

These personalities have lost sight of the most important, critical element in this "alternative" media: THE TRUTH!

So while they attack each other and feed their egos, the truth is forgotten.

I once bought into the **** spewed by many people. I still have hope but you can only listen to "change coming soon! change coming soon! Sorry, our change didn't happen because of xyz" so many times before one becomes cynical.

Thanks, one of the most intelligent posts I've seen in a while.....

[SilentFeathers]

Guru's are not meant to be taken seriously on a personal level, what they are saying should be taken into consideration and either accepted as reasonable information, or not reasonable. Neither of these men would be gurus unless their fans had made them so. That is taking them seriously by making them personal unto one.

Depends on what one considers a guru ? :)

Serious? Well, that is why we seek the truth, delerious? well. thats what we accept when the truth evades us! LOL!

Keep on keepin on

[nearing]

Battle of the Davids

Yeah, whatever.

[Cartomancer]

This is an appropriate comparison. Both men espouse theories that go way outside the mainstream box. Wilcock simply took it a step further by becoming enmeshed in some serious b.s. You have to take all of this info and weed through it for the nuggets that resonate with you. In a way I see all the reptilian imagery in Icke's theories being valid whether you believe they actually exist or as a form of symbolism that they value.

Additionally it was so interesting to me that part of the plot of the movie Back to the Future involved time travel in the city plaza of the town. This is where the professor arranged the first "trip" of the magical DeLorean. There was some inside info being told there.

[Fred Steeves]

Additionally it was so interesting to me that part of the plot of the movie Back to the Future involved time travel in the city plaza of the town. This is where the professor arranged the first "trip" of the magical DeLorean. There was some inside info being told there.

Hmmmm, care to elaborate there dear sir?

[jaybee]

Battle of the Davids

Yeah, whatever.


LOL, nearing...



xCwLirQS2-o


.

[Timreh]

I really like David Wilcock’s older material, nowadays my interest is not so strong, what’s going on with him? I don’t know
David Icke... thumbs up high for me.

Fact is they are both great men who have made enormous personal sacrifice batting for what I would call the same team, they just have a different approach.

Our opinions are only formed based on our individual frame of reference and not from all of the facts many of which would be missed
I think if we’re not careful this could turn into a feeding frenzy with many getting side tracked from more important issues.

[SEAM]

Monster Created:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Read+between+the+lines

[nearing]

Battle of the Davids

Yeah, whatever.


LOL, nearing...



xCwLirQS2-o


.

:fish: :fish:

[Cartomancer]

Additionally it was so interesting to me that part of the plot of the movie Back to the Future involved time travel in the city plaza of the town. This is where the professor arranged the first "trip" of the magical DeLorean. There was some inside info being told there.

Hmmmm, care to elaborate there dear sir?

One of the greatest biblical or ancient tales valued by esoteric and secret societies is the tale of Jacob's Ladder. Jacob naps while resting his head on a stone. In his dream he see's the angels ascending and descending from heaven on a ladder. A belief develops that dictates the stone upon which he laid his head was sacred and enabled the vision. This story also echoes the Sumerian value of the Heaven's Gate or what is known in alternative circles as a stargate.

Later in history the value of this story is displayed in the arrangement of linear parks and plazas through out the western world. Its all about summoning and commanding Angels and Demons. Dr. John Dee of Elizabethan England later developed a system of "heptarchia" to summon Angels. This also relates to the story of King Solomon commanding demons to built the Temple.

In the movie "Back to the Future" the professor arranges the time travel to happen at the representative stargate of the town. Even the movie set used to film was set up in a veneration of this phenomenon. There is also imagery and suggestions of this in the movie "Peggy Sue got Married" w/ Kathleen Turner.

Here is a movie I made about my hometown in which I became aware of what all this means..........................

9RHVuyNpDmg