What is your truth, subjective or ultimate?

[Kelly]

There is so much information on the internet, so much dis-information too.
Confusion, distraction, lies...................
Discernment is always key.
We are always trying to find the truth of things, but we come across many lies too.
If there are subjective truths, for all of us, there, i suppose, has to be, an ultimate truth too, for all of us.
What is true for you, either, subjective or ultimate?
Like, my name is Kelly, but really, iam much more than a name.
So when i say that statement, it is true, but it isnt the ultimate truth.
We base our lives on what we feel is true or false, our experiences define us, but they are not us, our beliefs, based on our experiences, can unite us, or divide us.
Our names are not us, our experiences are not us, our beliefs are not us.
We form attachments based on all of these things, but are these things just attachments themselves?
When we are looking for conspiracy theories, or things to back up our experiences or beliefs, are we just adding more attachments to our belts, or are we trying to find the truth about things?
I don't know my real reason for posting this, other than i wanted to, im just following what i felt like doing, and i like to ramble :)
Subjective truth, ultimate truth,
What is your truth and why?
( And im nosey):p

[Tony]

Piece of cake!

Ultimate truth is that which knows the answer.
Subjective truth is that which asked the question.


That which is called,
Tony

[Kelly]

Haha, harder question:
Chocolate cake, or lemon drizzle cake?
Im still pondering on a lot of things, sometimes i think i have it, then i loose it, always ebbing and flowing, like a wave, sometimes calm, sometimes wild, the truth i guess is when the sea is still.

[Tony]

OK this is better.

Knowing is ultimate truth.............pure perception.
Not knowing is relative truth.........ignoring pure perception.

One never changes, the other does.


Yours oscillating between the two,
Tony

[Falcor]

are the subjective and objective not one and the same? :)

[Kelly]

The one that never changes, is the ultimate truth, your essence, the real you, unchangeable, eternal, the one that changes, is the one that is in effect, affected by other things outside of itself, cos it doesnt yet know its (real) self. (ultimate truth)
One day, i hope to stop oscillating, im sure when iam ready, i will ;)

Haha, Falcor, i love your signature at the bottom of your comment, and yes, i lie to myself all the time, been doing it for years now :)

[ljwheat]

Ultimate truth: -- awareness that I exist.

Subjective truth:-- the five senses feeding the brain, with endless stimulus (information).

Matrix truth:-- curriculum + agenda of E.T. influencing human subjective truth (information) on this planet.(Controlled)

Personal truth: -- I am a program with a spirit.

Spiritual truth: -- exists with out-- and above all this--ultimate truth or subjectivity human brain fart.

Everything else is all mathematical equations on a galactic black board. Endlessly rewriting its self.

Pull yourself up to the table of endless possibilities and flavor’s of existence, far beyond ultimate truths reach or scope. Called for now infinity and beyond.

John xoxo

[RunningDeer]

A work in progress, with less and less...

Subjective truth
Faucets – hot and cold
Consciousness and consciousness
All flows out the same spigot
Emphasis on the lesser

Trading places
Proper perspective
No credit to be had
Just continual unfolding of process unto
Ultimate Truth

[Tony]

are the subjective and objective not one and the same? :)


What a terrific question!.........They are inseparable!!!!!!!!
One reflects the other.


Tony

[ghostrider]

my truth is ..we are donkeys following the apple...our effort is always to benefit someone else.

[Kelly]

i can see your point of view Ghostrider, sometimes i feel the same way, maybe most of the time, but, i know, inside, there is something amazing, aware, infinite and ready to break free of all this rubbish.
;)

[Tony]

Hello Kelly,
This is such an important topic, the most important topic in fact, that we can refine all these excellent replies.
Take "breaking free of all this rubbish." This will depend on the individual, whether to stay clear of the rubbish, find an antidote for the rubbish, or really see that the rubbish never existed in the first place. The true nature of the rubbish (relative truth) is absolute truth. When one sees that rubbish has no inherent existence of it's own, that is it empty of true constant existence, then that is seeing the purity in the rubbish. In Emptiness (Pure essential being) everything is reflected.

So, the mirror and it's reflections are inseparable !!!

Great thread,
Tony

[Kelly]

I like things that make me think, and i like hearing what others think, we can all bounce ideas off each other.
Im still pondering on everything, but i like your reply about seeing the rubbish has no inherent existence of its own.
See, i wrote the poem on emptiness, but at times, i still fill it (the emptiness) with rubbish, so i cant see past the empty can of beans to my own eternal nature.
I suppose if i shout loud enough, into that empty can of beans, i will hear myself in the echo somewhere!

[Kelly]

Ultimate truth: -- awareness that I exist.

Subjective truth:-- the five senses feeding the brain, with endless stimulus (information).

Matrix truth:-- curriculum + agenda of E.T. influencing human subjective truth (information) on this planet.(Controlled)

Personal truth: -- I am a program with a spirit.

Spiritual truth: -- exists with out-- and above all this--ultimate truth or subjectivity human brain fart.

Everything else is all mathematical equations on a galactic black board. Endlessly rewriting its self.

Pull yourself up to the table of endless possibilities and flavor’s of existence, far beyond ultimate truths reach or scope. Called for now infinity and beyond.

John xoxo

I know who iam, im BUZZ LIGHTYEAR!!!! TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!!!!
Love this, thanks jwheat :) xxxxxxxxxx

[Kelly]

we have got to laugh, from all our searching for everything, it was always there to begin with, hidden, in plain sight, amongst all the rubbish that we surround and fill ourselves up with, we held the truth all along!
Now, what to do once you know????
I have to go, the dishes need washing, and the rubbish needs taking out, same old same old, ahhhh, life eh?;)

[ljwheat]

we have got to laugh, from all our searching for everything, it was always there to begin with, hidden, in plain sight, amongst all the rubbish that we surround and fill ourselves up with, we held the truth all along!
Now, what to do once you know????
I have to go, the dishes need washing, and the rubbish needs taking out, same old same old, ahhhh, life eh?;)

ahh, What to do once you know? -- anything your spirit desires. The hole point behind the 3D Delusional fart is someone always saying you have to do somthing to be you. What tells a eagle to fly like a eagle? what tells a fish to swim? where is the manual for becoming anything in Nature, the Argument has been IMO in MO. My Opinion changes nothing in Nature. It only destroys it at best.

Escaping MO, may give me time to reenter my true nature, instead of the endless programs unleashed on me since birth resurfacing killing any original thinking. Like trying to find a needle in the Grand Canyon of thoughts.

Would ‘Tarzan’ with out Hollywood’s Opinion’s, story lines and programming be what a true human would look like in nature/? No programming like Adam & Eve/? Nature not domesticated in any way human/? And if God shows up Arrest him, to avoid mass arrests later down the line as everyone’s hoping for these days. Nip it in the bud so to speak.

IMO I’ve given myself disservice by letting programs that I never had a hand in creating or choosing occupy to much space on the hard drive of my being.

And most of those files are duplicate redundant junk file’s, I don’t know how to delete. The jury will disallow that last statement and will be stricken from the record. “Right” How do you un-hear, see, feel, do anything that’s been programmed into us/?

So I guess the only logical solution is to make personal opinions legal./ and get back to nature / civilized opinions destroys nature. Allowing nature to exist kills civilization.

Just a thought. John xoxo

[RunningDeer]

And most of those files are duplicate redundant junk file’s, I don’t know how to delete. The jury will disallow that last statement and will be stricken from the record. “Right” How do you un-hear, see, feel, do anything that’s been programmed into us/?
Just a thought. John xoxo

How to delete redundant junk files: http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/delete2-smiley.gif?1292867581


In this moment, my answer is that there’s plenty of room for all of one’s illusions, so why bother to delete?

I say focus on what Is and it’s beyond, and the rest goes poof all on it’s illusionary own. http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

[Tony]

Somethings are not easy to write about on forums, and I'm not sure if they should be written about.
The refining process is very subtle and is to do with actual practice and experience, and not just an accumulation of words.

Talking about Absolute truth and Relative truth goes very deep, and is at the heart of the matter.
Absolute truth is our empty essential essence. Relative truth is in fact 'knowing'. Different traditions may see this slightly differently, so that is why talking about this is difficult, because there are different methods of approach.

If we as a group worked together, all this would be much easier to discuss. But people are very fearful of groups nowadays. I'll have to agree that they consist of explosive egos, and accuse everyone else of mind control. How on earth did we get to this state?

Anyway back to truth!

This you can look up.
In sanskrit:

Empty essence is called Dharmakaya.
Lucid (knowing) nature is called Sambhogakaya.
The unity of these two, compassion is called Nirmanakaya.

These are the three kayas. They are also the root wisdoms of the three negative emotions of, Desire, Hatred, and Ignorance.
If the three Kayas are out of balance, the three negative emotions arise.

If you looked into this system you would find that it was perfect and complete.
The increase of faith, intelligence and compassion are the hallmarks that this system works
....but you have to do the work!

People say, “Stripping away the layers and what is left is the truth.”
But you still have to recognise and know the quality of what is left.

If there is no compassion, there can be no truth. Compassion comes from Knowing Essence.



Tony

[Kelly]

Sometimes, i can talk the talk, but not walk the walk.
I find there is a lot of difference between saying something and actually doing it, living by it.
And, although, on one level, i can sort of comprehend the ultimate truth, i cannot feel it, sometimes i can.
It is good that people can talk about things like this, cos i feel this is where we need to be going, the direction we should be headed in.
Constantly trying to grasp at something, only makes it slip further away from us, i guess at times, we just need to be and breathe and let it flow!

[Tony]

I totally love this subject.

What one needs to do (or not do) is meditate. This is simply stopping all activity and resting, just being relaxed. No talking, no walking, no trying to be something...one is not.

In that stillness, the mind experiences space. Consciousness has become clarity. But we are still in relative truth, because we are aware of this clarity! There are two things going on here, me and clarity. This is a good state.

All this clear consciousness, this clear awareness has to do now is, become aware of the awareness, and in that awareness, nothing can be found. Therefore it is termed Emptiness. Because of this awareness has been upgraded, there is just 'empty knowing'.

At this point there is no observer, there is just 'empty knowing'....pure and simple.

This 'empty knowing' allows love to automatically arise. Because this knowing is empty of any constructs or fabrications it is unconditional love! A love that does not rely on conditions to be....!

This is so simple, but, we have our habitual mental patterning to deal with, which has been created over a very long time. And all we have to do is....note it. That is all.

Gradually this noting becomes constant, with no expectations.

It is so beautiful and simple.


One who still oscillates between knowing and not knowing,
Tony

[Kelly]

I totally love this subject.

What one needs to do (or not do) is meditate. This is simply stopping all activity and resting, just being relaxed. No talking, no walking, no trying to be something...one is not.

In that stillness, the mind experiences space. Consciousness has become clarity. But we are still in relative truth, because we are aware of this clarity! There are two things going on here, me and clarity. This is a good state.

All this clear consciousness, this clear awareness has to do now is, become aware of the awareness, and in that awareness, nothing can be found. Therefore it is termed Emptiness. Because of this awareness has been upgraded, there is just 'empty knowing'.

At this point there is no observer, there is just 'empty knowing'....pure and simple.

This 'empty knowing' allows love to automatically arise. Because this knowing is empty of any constructs or fabrications it is unconditional love! A love that does not rely on conditions to be....!

This is so simple, but, we have our habitual mental patterning to deal with, which has been created over a very long time. And all we have to do is....note it. That is all.

Gradually this noting becomes constant, with no expectations.

It is so beautiful and simple.


One who still oscillates between knowing and not knowing,
Tony

THANKYOU! :) xxxx

[indigopete]

Was ultimate but recently switched to subjective.

[Tony]

Was ultimate but recently switched to subjective.

Hello Pete,

This is a huge subject, but to simplify... The computer if front of you, like all things, seems to be real (relative), but in time will disintegrate into subtle particle of energy.
It has a seeming(relative) nature of existing, but it's ultimate nature is empty of any true existence. So these both these states exist at the same time.

It is the same with 'self'. I walk around with a body, and ideas about myself, which seems to be real (relative), but this too is empty of any true existence. This seeming existence is empty of any true existence. However this 'self' is conscious, which matter is not.

When this conscious looks in on itself, it realises a' pure knowing' quality. So ordinary consciousness and pure knowing exist at the same time.
This is how the two truths work in union. The constant mirror and all the constantly changing reflections.

Our ultimate essence knows the nature of everything...which is empty of any true existence!

In the relative world time exists because 'things' change. In the ultimate world where no 'things' exist, time is timeless = time does not exist.





Tony

[indigopete]

Our ultimate essence knows the nature of everything...which is empty of any true existence!


Yes, pie-n'-eal - I can identify with that sentiment alright.

Just to bring things down to earth for a moment with a practical example, that's why I kind of accept that the world decides that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. Because people are really more interested in what they "have to work with" rather than "what's the truth".

You could say that at a very deep subconscious level, people know that there is no absolute "truth" and it's more important to establish an agreed reality. That would explain why they're not desperately interested in conspiracy theories as long as some "agreed reality" exists.

When the established reality was that the earth was flat and it was possible to fall of the edge, that worked fine for centuries until such time as it became untenable for practical reasons (e.g. other things started stress the boundaries such as having to navigate long distances, explain planetary motion and apples falling off trees). Then the reality "morphed" into the next subjective reality which was only as "true" as it needed to be to support the practical needs of the day.

Pete

[Tony]

In our relative world all we manage to do is create more and more suffering.


Tony

[indigopete]

In our relative world all we manage to do is create more and more suffering.

Nice ! :)

Wish Einstein had been around to hear that. He wanted to go back to a Newtonian perspective of absolute certainty as well but it just wasn't happening for him and never has since for anyone else.

Despite that, the twin absolutes of 16th century science and religion managed a respectable score on the suffering front I'd say.

[RunningDeer]

A metaphor comes to mind about if one stays open without the need for a result, deep understanding may unfold:

“Nature's milkweed seed teaches that when we are grasping, it darts just out of our reach every time. It teaches us that by letting it be, allowing it to alight on our open loving hand, in it's own trusting time it plants itself.”


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Bryce/milkseed.jpg

[Kelly]

http://youtu.be/UaY7TwMBHuc

[Kelly]

I see what is outside of me, i know what is inside of me, and while both are true, in that they are there, and are real, it is the world inside, the one that is constant and unchanging that is really real.
Superficial changes, like, my mood, or my feelings, my laughter or sadness, cannot change the very essence of me, or of you.
Ive heard it said, that the only constant in life, is change, and yeah, that is true, its always shifting, and that is what makes us so insecure, and paranoid, cos we have, so to speak, built on shifting sands that erode with the tides.
If we were to build on the premise of, everything changes, but nothing really does, our essence never does, then we could be more confident of who we are in ourselves, and so end our own suffering and that of others.
Just a thought :)

[Lifebringer]

I am working on my judgemental side. i have lived a life surrounded by bs so much, I actually was diagnosed with a severe intolerance for it in 2004 after having my vote purged in 2000.
My spiritual gardian angel or guide/higherSelf and another PA family member, suggested that I start to forgive those that know not what they do, because it is how "this material world's leaders and media" have taught them to be. It's really tough for me, because once I was diagnosed with this condition of the mind, I had to climb out of a depression that took 4 years to come out of 2000/stoilevote2004/severeintolerace4bs. So to bring myself back, I had to reach back into the BSS(boldSoulSister/higherself) and join others who woke up to NWOElite/bs central, and now use our powers of, how do I say it? Guilt thought or conscious, to turn those who do this away. Sort of a "nagging, nagging, nagging" until they finally change their hearts.

A simple question to those who are "spying/listening in on us" "What satisfaction do you recieve, when you practice to decieve, and tangle lies in your webby weave/media. What joy does it bring you to kick the poor or downtrodden, all for the sake of accumulating a monetary wealth, that will hold your soul to never be satisfied?"

Like a money vampire! Biting into everyone not in your family, then if your family doesn't conform, bite into them also, until they submit. I watched "The One Percenters on Netflix, and it was quite an eye opener, especially the grandchildren who have walked among us regular Janes and Joes. It told of the Johnson & Johnson's one percent stature of owning 40% of the nation's wealth. You guys and gals should really check out how the youth have awakened to the effects of inherited wealth, and when they participated in the documentary, their grandparents threatened to dis-inherit them for speaking their poor troubled minds upon discovering the truth of the system's eilite control Hint...Warren Buffet diseinherited his grand daughter who has a twin, from the family, for working as a housekeeper in another elite household, making her own independence, and then just participating/name recognition in the video. She seemed like such a well adjusted and hope for the world peace person, so why try to harm her fianancially, for doing the right thing?

It's a "demented state of control" that leads to this heartless behavior. From what I saw of her statements, she simply said, there are actually "two sides" to her grandfather and one of them is ruthless.

Well who doesn't know this about any capitalist 2nd in wealth to Bill Gates?

Sad little men with "big heads and hats."
Ooops! There I go again with that "judgemental stuff. It's tough when just observing and forming an opinion based upon histoy, and actual experience.
My bad.

[ljwheat]

So this begs to be asked, one dose not suffer until awakened to suffering. Bliss of sleep and just living, on one hand before awake, or awake and suffering with this knowing unless one is meditating into conscious sleep away from suffering, both being a state of sleep.

I have tendonitis, a ringing of the ears as long as I stay asleep or asleep consciously unaware > I don’t hear the ringing. The mention of, or the thinking of the ringing brings it rushing into my awareness. But its always present known or not, always present.

Just not focused on, but still present, same with the void of bliss and all knowingness, always present/focusing were the awareness is looking at the moment. Awake / not awake, changes nothing but how much one wants to know about suffering. Just like the ringing in my ears just not focused on.

Being awake to this,-- is more suffering than staying asleep to the ringing. And there is no out come in the end, as existence has no end. So IMO either state or both is vanity to my existence. I simply exist. Its movement is just movement with out end. No ultimate out come, just awareness in endless motion, in a river of being back to the ocean of the void eternally in motion. Meanings are 3D vanity.

John xoxo

[Kelly]

[QUOTE=Lifebringer;523388]I am working on my judgemental side. i have lived a life surrounded by bs so much, I actually was diagnosed with a severe intolerance for it in 2004 after having my vote purged in 2000.

A simple question to those who are "spying/listening in on us" "What satisfaction do you recieve, when you practice to decieve, and tangle lies in your webby weave/media. What joy does it bring you to kick the poor or downtrodden, all for the sake of accumulating a monetary wealth, that will hold your soul to never be satisfied?"

Ooops, quote didnt work properly, im a tech dunce!

I too can be really judgemental, and have been, a lot!
In 2009, i attempted suicide, through cutting my wrists and an overdose, i was in a really bad place.
I couldn't handle all the BS going on everywhere, and mostly in my own head.
At this point, i had already "awakened" .
I use the term loosely, because, i still had a lot of work to do, and i know i still have now!
This past year alone, has been a hell of a ride for me.
Im a pisces, very emotional, sensitive, and passionate, and by passionate, i mean, i can be very vocal and sarcastic and caustic, when i want to be, when iam "protecting" others from what i perceive as manipulation and deception, (which i hate)
Hate, being an overused word :)
I see the me, that has done all that, i see the me that has witnessed that, and it does not judge me for it.
I dont know why people do the things they do, i dont know why i do, or done the things i did, (and sometimes still do) i only know, i cant judge myself for going through the process.
So, if iam eternal awareness, and so are they, they are not judging themselves either, even though they are judging and hurting others.

[Kelly]

Being awake to this,-- is more suffering than staying asleep to the ringing. And there is no out come in the end, as existence has no end. So IMO either state or both is vanity to my existence. I simply exist. Its movement is just movement with out end. No ultimate out come, just awareness in endless motion, in a river of being back to the ocean of the void eternally in motion. Meanings are 3D vanity.

John xoxo[/QUOTE]

I really cant get the hang of this quote thing, ive done it twice, then lost the knack, hahaha!!!

I simply exsist ;) simplicity, is always the most beautiful, and sometimes the hardest thing in the world, we always make things so hard for ourselves!

[sleepy]

xxxxx xxxxxx

[RunningDeer]

Kelly, just add this to the end of the person's quote to "close it" - [/QUOTE] See below for a "before and after" example. (It'll come clear soon with practice.)

Here's what the before looks like when the last "close it" is missing:




Ooops, quote didnt work properly, im a tech dunce!


You'll have to open the "reply with a quote" to see how to do the examples below.

[QUOTE]Ooops, quote didnt work properly, im a tech dunce!
Easiest one to practice quotes.


OR


Ooops, quote didnt work properly, im a tech dunce!
This one includes the person who wrote the post, i.e. [QUOTE=Kelly;523396] .


FFT: You are not "a tech dunce", it just has a missing part. :wave:

[Kelly]

I have to say, when i said im a pisces, that is me being subjective, and i can use that as an excuse for my behaviour, whenever i want:
I CANT HELP IT, IM SENSITIVE, IM PASSIONATE, BLAH BLAH BLAH...........
Ive done it all before, said it all before, i use, the excuse as a get out of jail free card for my judgemental behaviour, ie; i cant help it, cos im this, that or whatever.
We all do it, im still doing it.
But, if i recognise that, and i recognise that is what others do too, then i can have a kind of AHA moment, and see what we are doing, based on what we have always done, identified with something outside of us, something external and fleeting, rather than what is eternal and constant, the real me and you.
And when that is recognised, which may take us sometime, then maybe we can go, Oh, i see, and just let it go.

[Kelly]

Hahah, thankyou WhiteCrowBlackDeer, much needed info ;) xxxxxx

[Kelly]

We can be nasty,
We can be nice,
We can be sugar,
We can be spice,
We can false,
We can be real,
We can be numb,
Or we can feel,
We can be honest,
Or be deceptive,
We can be closed off,
Or receptive,
We can be funny,
We can be stern,
Through all of these things,
We choose to learn,
We can be everything,
Pure potential,
Or the other way,
To be detrimental,
To ourselves and others around us,
But love will be there,
To always surround us.
Aware or not,
It doesnt matter,
If you are sane,
Or as mad as a hatter,
What you perceive,
Is not always true,
Its always been,
Up to you!

[Camilo]

The ultimate truth is that humanity has to wake up and smell the coffee, 2012 will be a reality shift that is part of greater and lesser cosmic cycles. For humanity 2012 is a shift to higher dimensional frequencies, involving the end of one cycle and the beginning of another. Part of this involves freedom from dark force manipulations, raised levels of consciousness, true brotherhood, and abundance, all of which are a part of our entry into the golden age.

[Kelly]

But we dont always agree what coffee smells best do we???
I agree, we do need to wake up and smell the BS going on, there is so much of it around, that is why, the only real truth, i think, is the one we hold closest to us but most of the time it seems so distant from us, because we choose to use BS as a distraction from the truth and freedom.

[ljwheat]

The ultimate truth is that humanity has to wake up and smell the coffee, 2012 will be a reality shift that is part of greater and lesser cosmic cycles. For humanity 2012 is a shift to higher dimensional frequencies, involving the end of one cycle and the beginning of another. Part of this involves freedom from dark force manipulations, raised levels of consciousness, true brotherhood, and abundance, all of which are a part of our entry into the golden age.

This is your ultimate truth. Humanity doesn’t have to do anything, nothing can be added or taken away from the existence as a human, eagle, fish, bird, tree, blade of grass.

Spirit needs no upgrades, frequency changes, or do over's, these are all 3D physical thought make over’s for the EGO--- that’s afraid of loosing its life as it knows it. And threw wishful thinking comes up with all these things that must be done to carry on in the new age’ y mind set. Spirit dose not need--- the body or mind. The body, mind---- needs spirit to exist.

You will be moving on as spirit, body and mind left behind. All the fuss is body and mind are kicking and screaming that this just can’t be. Wake up and smell the spirit. Get out of the physical screaming meme’s, looking for a physical savior, in thought or idea that your head can rap itself around.

And drop the physical you will,-- that’s fact. Moving on as spirit,-- that’s fact. You will always exist,-- that’s fact. All the rest I know is BS-- that’s fact. Everything is a ride your spirit chose to get on.-- that’s fact. When spirit chose’s to move on-- thinking will not stop it, --that’s fact. Spirit doesn’t need a beautiful mind, or living to be or not to be. Its already perfect and complete with out HU MAN thinking or thoughts.

I’m complete in spirit, in mind of a hu man I’m and idiot, screaming as this roller coaster hits a new curve my mind can't deal with. Hanging on with white knuckles I ride this ride in human form. But spirit is having a time of its life enjoying the ride with nothing to fear as its body clamores to take its next scary breath in thinking all that I am is my thinking. Wake up and smell the spirit of complete. Nothing to do nothing to take away, complete.

eh8Hp_CChdo

:cantina: John xoxo LOL LOL LOL LOL :der:

[mahalall]

mindless absence of the changing nature of the sensation of truth

[Chester]

Truth is what is true for you at the moment you decide its true.

And there's one really true thing about truth... it usually changes.

Not always, but usually.

Give me an example of a truth that will not change?

I always love my children. That is a truth that will never change.

justone

[goinghome2012]

the ultimate truth is we are divine eternal spiritual beings having a human experience ready to graduate very soon to end this nightmare and proceed into the Golden Age of God co-creation. Welcome the Golden Age, welcome the Great Year closure and a beginning of a new dream.

[modwiz]

Ron "Tater: White said it first: "Ya can't fix stupid."

[Carolin]

Once we experience truth it stays with us forever - Abdy

[goinghome2012]

The ultimate truth is that humanity has to wake up and smell the coffee, 2012 will be a reality shift that is part of greater and lesser cosmic cycles. For humanity 2012 is a shift to higher dimensional frequencies, involving the end of one cycle and the beginning of another. Part of this involves freedom from dark force manipulations, raised levels of consciousness, true brotherhood, and abundance, all of which are a part of our entry into the golden age.

I concur, Have you watched any of Santos Bonacci videos?

http://www.in5d.com/santos-bonacci-reclaiming-dominion.html

peace and love

[Tony]

If one says, "Truth is what is true for me now," then that truth is a changeable thing, so therefore it cannot be true. That is the relative truth we have been talking about. This is not saying it is wrong, it is merely a temporary truth, a subjective truth. This is how reality seems to us at this moment.

So what we are looking for is a truth that does not change.....A REAL TRUTH! Something that is constant.

Our ordinary mind does not want to accept that there could be an absolute truth, because it holds firmly to it's belief in what it is holding onto. This is understandable.
I don't know if this is a good analogy:
A lot of people dislike academic paintings. Academic painting are well studied and accurate, and...take a lot of practice and skill. Most modern artists just want to do their thing. But at the back of their mind they know they do not have enough skill, hence the inner torment! I should know, I've been in both camps:rolleyes:! This does not mean one has to be accurate all the time, but one can choose to exaggerate this or that because one means to, and does not have to rely on 'happy accidents'!

Oh, I got a bit carried away here...!!

There is an Absolute truth....you ARE it!




Lots of love,
Tony

[Tony]

What is soooooo funny, (this must be the greatest cosmic joke, ever ever!) we are all looking for the truth, and we are that truth we are seeking all the time.

All we have to do is look.
I urgently suggest you all join the meditation group and
stop messing about!!!:fencing: :argue: :target: :frusty: :thumb:


Tony

[markpierre]

I think I'm me and I'm here. Ultimate truth doesn't buy into that.

That's as tidy as I can make it.

[ulli]

My absolute truth:

Change is the only constant.

[ulli]

Here is a more subjective truth...as I have experienced,
although these are not my words.
However, they describe my conviction:

This Awareness indicates that all entities have a direct pipeline to the source of all life. That each of you is capable of being a channel, of being in tune with the infinite. This Awareness wishes that whatever name you choose to use for describing the spiritual energies, that you remember always that you are a channel for this energy.

This Awareness wishes you to understand that each of you is within the arms of this Awareness. That each of you is within the body of a living universe. That there is nothing in the universe which is dead, or which ever dies-that everything lives eternally. This Awareness indicates that everything also changes.

This Awareness wishes to inform entities upon this plane, that the universe appears and disappears every four-quadrillionth of a second.

[Tony]

Let's look logically at this.

We normally go -------”that's the truth”----------”no, this is my truth”------------”ah that's it”------
------”this is my truth”---------”I'm sticking to this”------------”oh! Now I've got it!”-------”this is a better truth”----------- --- --- ?

These moments of identification are all Subjective/Relative truth. What we always fail to see or notice that which goes along all the time all by itself ---------------------------------the bit in between!

Pure knowing ----------- is just there.
Pure knowing is Ultimate Truth.
Compassion is Knowing, Essence.



T----o-----n-----y

[Tony]

"Change is the only constant"....?
In the relative world yes!

What moves this constant changing?
Attraction, repulsion and inertia.

In sentient terms this is,
Desire, Hatred and Ignorance.
OR
Hope, Fear and Indifference.

So what is constantly changing everything?
Our Ignorance, of our true nature.

[Tony]

There are two aspects to the feeling that we are changing,
one is that we change our ideas,
the other is that we peel away the layers of confusion
to reveal what is already there.

This is a very subtle business.

[Kelly]

In my 36 years here on earth, i have accumulated many different layers from childhood up until this very moment, and im sure it will still be an ongoing process, until iam ready to stop it.
Peeling off the layers like an onion, until only the core is left.
We protect ourselves, we defend ourselves against thieves, in case they steal anything of value which we have stored up to defend our fake selves with.
In the morning, when we get dressed, how many layers of clothes are we really putting on?
When we put our make up on, how many layers are already there?
We will keep doing this, until we are too heavy, then one by one, the layers can be removed.
Sometimes, we like the layers just the way they are, they are comfortable to us, i know mine are!!!

[gooty64]

OH boy, now I see what I was missing while I was "away".........
I am glimpsing that vastness of all that is.........within.........a brush with knowing for at least a brief moment.........aww..........and there it goes again.........

[gooty64]

http://youtu.be/UaY7TwMBHuc

Love that tune Kelly!

UaY7TwMBHuc

[Kelly]

Aww, Gooty, me little cutie, hahah, i think deep inside, we all glimpse this, if only for the ever briefest second, then its gone again, the important thing though, is that we do glimpse it, i think that is what makes us search, we know it is there ;) xxxxx