'Hidden Hand' - claimed Illuminati insider, 2008

[Ultima Thule]

Hi.

I stumbled upon the discussion from 2008 that took place in ATS. A self proclaimed illuminati insider, going by the handle Hidden hand discussed 5 days with the members in the spirit of letting some information out. He/she did some forecasting of events of which some came true, some not. I don´t much care about that, things happen or don´t happen and are subject to change. I am however interested about the content of the discussion, which may have been an elaborate hoax or perhaps of the real thing.

At the time there was a discussion about this matter on old avalon at: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6155

The cleaned up discussion from ATS can for example be found at: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/dialogue_hh.pdf

I am sitting on the fence, but am intrigued as of late I have been trying to wrap my mind about the workings of tpb and how should one relate oneself to that.

I wonder what you people think, please first read through the pdf and/or if you have previously read it, do state your opinion/comment.


UT

[karelia]

I remember the discussion on the old forum, and just recently I re-read the pdf. I still think that HH offered quite a lot of truth. Sure, some stuff he claims doesn't resonate with me, but overall, I think there is probably around 80% truth in what he said.

[Ultima Thule]

Hi K!
The context that Hidden_hand was drafting was interesting and somewhat helpful in not dehumanizing tptb which in turn serves us better if we don´t give in to hate.
I am intrigued.

What I mean by context is the idea of souls having to play "evil"(service to self in those terms) as efficiently as they can to provide a catalyst for the other people (service to others) to play their game to the utmost. His/her interesting point(one of many) was IMO that they are aiming for 95% negativity towards the harvest and they are accepting that after that they will work their accumulated karma off. So there are in his/her words two games going on: "them" working for 95% negative and helping "others" to reach 51% positive.


There really is nothing absolutely new there, but in my opinion he/she lays out the pieces very well.

UT

[karelia]

Hi K!
The context that Hidden_hand was drafting was interesting and somewhat helpful in not dehumanizing tptb which in turn serves us better if we don´t give in to hate.
I am intrigued.

That's what intrigued me initially, yes! And even now, it reminds me that just because they have been/are dehumanizing the human race is no reason for me to take out the human aspect when it comes to them. Sometimes I wonder if the Bastards in Power are at a much lower stage of evolution...

[Ultima Thule]

Hi K!
The context that Hidden_hand was drafting was interesting and somewhat helpful in not dehumanizing tptb which in turn serves us better if we don´t give in to hate.
I am intrigued.

That's what intrigued me initially, yes! And even now, it reminds me that just because they have been/are dehumanizing the human race is no reason for me to take out the human aspect when it comes to them. Sometimes I wonder if the Bastards in Power are at a much lower stage of evolution...

According to Hidden_hand they very much strive to reach a lower stage, to be the best opponent for us. Reminds me of a sports coach Timothy Gallwells ideology about opponent and competition in general: if the opponent has a weak backhand in tennis, the best you can do is pressure the backhand with no "mercy" as that will help your opponent to develope - instead of feeling sorry and playing into your opponents forehand out of mercy.

[Axman]

Well When I read it a few years back it was when I was reading the Law Of One and he/she did bring up a lot of points from the LOO which is the first on only time I have seen this in other material. They claimed they never heard of the LOO.With that said I do believe that it works like this What was said by the hidden hand.

The Axman

[Ultima Thule]

Well When I read it a few years back it was when I was reading the Law Of One and he/she did bring up a lot of points from the LOO which is the first on only time I have seen this in other material. They claimed they never heard of the LOO.With that said I do believe that it works like this What was said by the hidden hand.

The Axman

If I understand you correctly, you mean hidden hand denied knowledge of Law of One? In fact he/she acknowledged studying Law of One and that it is one of the most or even the most accurate text.

UT

[Ultima Thule]

Well heck...

I might as well state in here some of the things that were very interesting in the discourse:
- apparently hidden_hand replied in real time, leaving quite a slim chance for browsing the internet for information on discussed matters, being pro on the authenticity
- the answers hidden_hand provided were consistent, as far as I can see no self-contradicting information was provided
- the answers were painting a solid and coherent picture in which one can easily fit unity and duality and "our" / "their" role in the game
- to me the answers related an authentic feel of the person - in fact much more so than in most cases of channelings and more so than with many whistleblowers, if someone would have orchestrated the whole discussion as a complete text appearing from nowhere it would be easier to think that it was an elaborate storyline to manipulate, but the whole thing was in the form of discussion.
- furthermore I could relate to hidden_hands explanation of their role in the game, previously I have been figuring out that an evil individual, let´s say whichever Bush, is a who-ever soul that has taken the role of the bad guy, but hidden_hands explanation of an evolved social complex undertaking the whole evil "workload" and karmic responsibility for it for eons, is more plausible to me.
In relation to previous, I gather this social complex is at the very top of the bloodlines, well beyond any whose names we are familiar with, thus leaving 99,99% of the people choosing freely whether to pursue negative or positive outcome or settling for quote:"lukewarm"
- hidden_hand emphasized the free will to know and not to know, which imo explains why this kind of distribution of information has to be made in a trivial place in internet - so that people that prefer to know more can stumble upon it, in contrast to providing this stuff in mainstream media, where peoples right to not know would be violated
- hidden_hand also emphasized people to go within and search answers for themselves, not following anybody and genuinely encouraged people to use the evil stimulus/catalyst he/she claims is theirs to provide in a meaningful way to develope into positive outcome
- hidden_hand confirmed that Svalis story about the conditioning is accurate, but that in his/her level in the bloodlines there is however no abuse, just strong and unpleasant conditioning

- only in few moments and sentences after the first read I sensed a possible hint of something not quite right - especially towards the end hidden_hand writes about he/she has been surprised that there has developed a connection with the people in the discussion, and some time after the previous credible comment, notes how he/she has to do something really terrible to counter these positive feelings. That put me off a little bit, but on the other hand, I guess humor is allowed in all families..

Thoughts?
UT

[Axman]

Iam sorry UT what I wrote did not make sense. What I meant to say was HH discussed a lot of what is in the LOO material and so far I have not seen that in other material I have read. HH denied ever hearing of the LOO.

The Axman

[Ultima Thule]

Quote from the discussion, regarding Hidden hand and Law of One:

"ATS: I wonder if Hidden_Hand has read something called The Law of One. I've only picked through it (having just stumbled on it after reading these posts)...but it reads remarkably similar to H_H's responses here.
www.lawofone.info ...
So is this the hoax source, or is that book instead the "truth?" Maybe H_H could respond...?

HH: I have already made reference to this (The Ra material) earlier in the topic.
As I stated then, yes, it is the most accurate public information available in this world currently, and I strongly recommend it's reading, to anyone with an enquiring mind.
I read some, but not all of the books when they first came out, some 25 years or so ago, and it is very similar to the knowledge my Family has, and have passed down for many many generations.
It is approximately 85-90% accurate. The inaccuracies occurred when the channel was weak, and were not intentional. We know Ra (the entity) very well, and are happy that they are even now still working here on this planet "behind the scenes" to prepare for the Great Harvest."

So HH does acknowledge Law of One and interestingly the concepts seemed to be very well in his/her grasp. Very interesting.

UT

[Nickolai]

Hello, Ultima Thule,

Thank you for the thread!!
I myself consider this sourse of information reliable. And I am thankful to you for bringing it up.
I suppose that many people on the forum try to give much power to the PTB.
The material in itself gives lots of thoughts to consider. Of course it is easier to blame someone (PTB) than take responsibility on one's shoulders.
The wisiest one ever told that Piece begins inside.

I am thankful that you brought it up,
And no wonder that this thread is so much unpopular for there is Mr Alex Johnes that shouts that everything is nearly lost and names the enemy.

The enemy is inside.
Know thy enemy.

Peace to all,

Nickolai

[East Sun]

Interesting, but sort of suspect to me. I've been disappointed too many times to believe anything even close to totally. I'm familiar with the LOO and the Ra material and see the familiarities.
Hidden hand seems to me to be very human in every way including laying out the way he is going to conduct the conversation and then falling for the rules being broken slightly and stating again what he will not tolerate. Also incorrect spelling. The people he described like Yahwey. sound extremely human, not what I would expect from a god etc.
These things sound trivial at face value but little things can often mean a lot.
There is of course the possibility that he has an agenda and is trying to steer us wrong.

All the complicated game of life on Earth does not seem plausible to me. Why would all that hierarchical striving for eons have to go on if all is one and all is just illusion. "Nobody dies and there is no pain." There certainly is pain even if it is eventually dismissed and non existent.
The ptb are very smart and know how to manipulate almost all the Earth's population. We need to be extra careful, a lot depends on this whole process as it plays on.

From an other angle, why would someone go to so much trouble as to do all the HH has done if he or she was not genuine.
What was or would be found if HH's posts' origins was checked out?

[Ultima Thule]

From an other angle, why would someone go to so much trouble as to do all the HH has done if he or she was not genuine.
What was or would be found if HH's posts' origins was checked out?

You mean ip-adress or something like that?
UT

[Axman]

Quote from the discussion, regarding Hidden hand and Law of One:

"ATS: I wonder if Hidden_Hand has read something called The Law of One. I've only picked through it (having just stumbled on it after reading these posts)...but it reads remarkably similar to H_H's responses here.
www.lawofone.info ...
So is this the hoax source, or is that book instead the "truth?" Maybe H_H could respond...?

HH: I have already made reference to this (The Ra material) earlier in the topic.
As I stated then, yes, it is the most accurate public information available in this world currently, and I strongly recommend it's reading, to anyone with an enquiring mind.
I read some, but not all of the books when they first came out, some 25 years or so ago, and it is very similar to the knowledge my Family has, and have passed down for many many generations.
It is approximately 85-90% accurate. The inaccuracies occurred when the channel was weak, and were not intentional. We know Ra (the entity) very well, and are happy that they are even now still working here on this planet "behind the scenes" to prepare for the Great Harvest."

So HH does acknowledge Law of One and interestingly the concepts seemed to be very well in his/her grasp. Very interesting.

UT

UT I guess I dont know what the heck Iam talking about I must be getting old.

[Awakened]

I find it very difficult to take anything serious that is loaded with so many spelling mistakes.

[Ultima Thule]

I find it very difficult to take anything serious that is loaded with so many spelling mistakes.

I on the contrary was not noticing very many of those, are there really?
UT

[East Sun]

From an other angle, why would someone go to so much trouble as to do all the HH has done if he or she was not genuine.
What was or would be found if HH's posts' origins was checked out?

You mean ip-adress or something like that?
UT

Yes. That's the first thing I would do if I was part of that site. It seems like the obvious thing to do. Any poster can be checked out.

To answer my own question re: "why would someone go to so much trouble..."
Only thing I can think of is, that he/she is conveying a message that the ptb want us to believe so that they can continue to manipulate the masses. In other words using their usual deceptive ways to our detriment.

[East Sun]

I find it very difficult to take anything serious that is loaded with so many spelling mistakes.

Also' I noticed that a word was spelled in English style, something I pointed out years ago regarding the channeling of the LOO. I notice those small things without trying and sometimes they add up to something important. I also pay attention to the big stuff. If something does not "feel" right but I can't, at the moment, put my finger on it, and that happens many times, I put a mental question mark there and add it to the equation.

[Ultima Thule]

From an other angle, why would someone go to so much trouble as to do all the HH has done if he or she was not genuine.
What was or would be found if HH's posts' origins was checked out?

You mean ip-adress or something like that?
UT

Yes. That's the first thing I would do if I was part of that site. It seems like the obvious thing to do. Any poster can be checked out.


I guess almost everyone can hide or fake the ip-adress without much difficulty, so I gather that would propably be of no use. The trouble thing is exactly what I was thinking - what was there to gain, if it was fake? Fame, nope. Finances, nope. Further communication made easier and/or position of authority achieved, nope? If I am thinking of the nucleus of the message - go within, trust yourself, strive for positive outcome - I can´t find that to be very "bad" manipulation if any ; )
UT

[East Sun]

From an other angle, why would someone go to so much trouble as to do all the HH has done if he or she was not genuine.
What was or would be found if HH's posts' origins was checked out?

You mean ip-adress or something like that?
UT

Yes. That's the first thing I would do if I was part of that site. It seems like the obvious thing to do. Any poster can be checked out.


I guess almost everyone can hide or fake the ip-adress without much difficulty, so I gather that would propably be of no use. The trouble thing is exactly what I was thinking - what was there to gain, if it was fake? Fame, nope. Finances, nope. Further communication made easier and/or position of authority achieved, nope? If I am thinking of the nucleus of the message - go within, trust yourself, strive for positive outcome - I can´t find that to be very "bad" manipulation if any ; )
UT

I believe that anything can be traced that is put on the internet (by someone with know-how). If the person is located then they can be checked out. If their set-up is phony that says a lot and they could still be traced.
The whole thing is suspect from the get-go.

[Axman]

It comes down to some times we as humans cant agree with the way it works. For the most part it is a positive message.Its same as religion it would be great for humanity if we where not ego maniacs and start wars over it. Its good info to live your life by. everybody is responsible for where they are headed a lot of people dont agree with that.The one post where the person posted some negative post and HH tells them thats nice you just made sure you are coming back to do it again if its that easy to come back just goes to show its not easy.

The Axman

[East Sun]

It comes down to some times we as humans cant agree with the way it works. For the most part it is a positive message.Its same as religion it would be great for humanity if we where not ego maniacs and start wars over it. Its good info to live your life by. everybody is responsible for where they are headed a lot of people dont agree with that.The one post where the person posted some negative post and HH tells them thats nice you just made sure you are coming back to do it again if its that easy to come back just goes to show its not easy.

The Axman

I'm not sure I understand what you mean in your first sentence.
The message is positive but is that all we are looking for? I am looking for truth, some facts, but there is a lot of maybes that we have been reading on this and other forums like this one for years.
There has been very good stuff also like the LOO material.
Whistle blower's stories are very interesting but there's always that margin of doubt that we need to have imo.
I don't buy this one.

[Ultima Thule]

What I find - among other things - plausible in Hidden Hands case is the dualism that is reflected in his/her story: the idea of providing truth because of universal principle or agreement in opposition to their "day-time" role as the evil and the devious. I can´t quite put my finger on exactly why that is plausible to me, but it does strike as a pro.

UT

[East Sun]

What I find - among other things - plausible in Hidden Hands case is the dualism that is reflected in his/her story: the idea of providing truth because of universal principle or agreement in opposition to their "day-time" role as the evil and the devious. I can´t quite put my finger on exactly why that is plausible to me, but it does strike as a pro.

UT

I think we can find dualism in most of what has been claimed on here over the years. We all like to hear positive info. but I don't understand why anyone puts out fantasies and imagination and wishful thinking as being fact.
This year will tell the tale for once and for all if Pandora's box is opened.
Be prepared for anything including disappointment.

[Axman]

It comes down to some times we as humans cant agree with the way it works. For the most part it is a positive message.Its same as religion it would be great for humanity if we where not ego maniacs and start wars over it. Its good info to live your life by. everybody is responsible for where they are headed a lot of people dont agree with that.The one post where the person posted some negative post and HH tells them thats nice you just made sure you are coming back to do it again if its that easy to come back just goes to show its not easy.

The Axman


I'm not sure I understand what you mean in your first sentence.
The message is positive but is that all we are looking for? I am looking for truth, some facts, but there is a lot of maybes that we have been reading on this and other forums like this one for years.
There has been very good stuff also like the LOO material.
Whistle blower's stories are very interesting but there's always that margin of doubt that we need to have imo.
I don't buy this one.

I am not saying that what HH said is all truth or not what I meant was even if everything HH said was true (they way it works) there would be people that would not buy it.ie religion. If it does work(what happens when we die) with what comes out of your mouth effects where your going when its time then I screwed myself a long time ago.
Some of it I dont want to be true. If it is true then it would be nice to know the rules when we start.

The Axman

[Mulder]

I personally feel this could have been a "Psy-Op" - to run a dis-info campaign. The real illuminati care not about the slaves and wouldn't answer their questions truthfully. However, as a "work of fiction" it does have some interesting plot lines.

[john.d]

I posted the hidden hand material on the old forum because it gave me a lift spiritually . The concept of positive entities (service to others ) incarnating as negative (service to self) wasnt new to me though . I studied the ' ra material ' and it says the same thing happened on their world in their 3d cycle to create polarity by a couple of 5th density entities . It also says they graduated to 4th density negative at harvest and it took a lot of work to remember their true path and return to it .

John

[Ultima Thule]

I personally feel this could have been a "Psy-Op" - to run a dis-info campaign. The real illuminati care not about the slaves and wouldn't answer their questions truthfully. However, as a "work of fiction" it does have some interesting plot lines.

I definitely hear you, however what would you consider dis-info in Hidden hands account? What in the account could be hazardous to believe?
I am inclined to find the account plausibly authentic, as it is imo quite hard to find anything in the account that would be dis-informative in the sense that it would cloud the persons reading from traveling in a proper direction in their lives.

As for the rule thingie that is said to be responsible for the account to take place - I find it possible to conceive that as tptb have been remarked as understanding spiritual principles and using them in their negative ritual ways, they would also acknowledge this kind of "proper" principles to cover their behinds.

UT

[Kalamos]

..........

[Ultima Thule]

I understand that in no way John d implied that he was the origin of the Hidden Hand-material, but meant that he copy-pasted the material from outside source to the old/earlier Project Avalon forum for the members to read.


UT

[Kalamos]

..........

[Anchor]

I might as well state in here some of the things that were very interesting in the discourse:
...
Thoughts?

I concur with your analysis.

I think the hidden hand material is worth more than two readings - especially if you are, like me, greatly informed by the Law Of One way of viewing things. It all fits together very nicely.

John..

[Kalamos]

..........

[Maunagarjana]

I love the Law of One books, but as far as I'm concerned, The Hidden Hand thing is a hoax. David Wilcock has said that he's spoken with the person who was behind it and said that the guy was a fan of Wilcock's site and the Law of One. You can ask on the comments section of divinecosmos.com and I'm sure the moderator will tell you the same thing. I had a strong feeling that it was a very savvy hoax. Especially when he got into the Lucifer and Quetzalcoatl social memory complexes. I mean, come on.....give me a break.

[Anchor]

I love the Law of One books, but as far as I'm concerned, The Hidden Hand thing is a hoax. David Wilcock has said that he's spoken with the person who was behind it and said that the guy was a fan of Wilcock's site and the Law of One. You can ask on the comments section of divinecosmos.com and I'm sure the moderator will tell you the same thing. I had a strong feeling that it was a very savvy hoax. Especially when he got into the Lucifer and Quetzalcoatl social memory complexes. I mean, come on.....give me a break.

To me it doesnt matter where it came from :) Its still worth a read or two.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Its definitely intelligent. Regardless of who he says he is ,.. its not important. There is enough good teaching in there to learn from. The good stuff HH wrote was on the ball.

Id highly recommend reading it a few times. ( sort of what anchor said but with more words added ... )

N

[Christine]

Hello Henry and welcome to Avalon. I want to thank you for your opening post, misconception as to author and all. I had completely missed this thread so I am glad to have access to the material.

The forum is so large now with more than 60,000 threads it is easy to miss some. We are glad your here and look forward to more of your thoughts.

Christine



I understand that in no way John d implied that he was the origin of the Hidden Hand-material, but meant that he copy-pasted the material from outside source to the old/earlier Project Avalon forum for the members to read.


UT
Thank You for That Clarification. I Feel A Little stupid Now. :p

[Kalamos]

..........

[Nanoo Nanoo]

If i may offer some advice in watching the general reactios to information. It would be prudent to read material without any pre concieved ideas about the author.

Its important in reading to suspend judgement in order to truly hear its words. IE its not healthy to read with an air of skepticism as this colours the message and meaning. I have found it good practice , when you read , read with an honest heart, this way all you wish to glean is the good information that the sequence of words can give. The words then will take on a different meaning and will also give you better information.

If of course the scource is dodgy you have to ask your self why are you reading it in the first place ? however if its recommended as is the HH material or the Law Of One material you will get so much more out of it if you readwith an open mind.

In the HH material HH writer ( N DB ) touches on material and concepts which if you read them wholly are brilliant. He writes very well and is obviously well educated. The more hard to grasp concepts such as being from the later 6th density and being sent here to submit us to kaos in order for us to evolve, actually makes sence on a larger scale. Dosent mean i agree with it but it would knock most off the fence as a katalyst. If i can use an analogy , sometimes a micro biologist will introduce a violent reaction to a petrie dish in order to re configure the contents to a new matrix. Sometimes these reactions are all that we can do in order to achieve the desired effect. From this standpoint i get the concept however because i did not get emotional about it i can read it without agreeing to that part and then enjoying the bits that are important.

This concept in reading will help those who are a little more emotional in the US and Them scenarios. Its important to admire and study even those whom we believe are the enemy. Probably more than we realise.

Naniu

[ThePythonicCow]

The forum is so large now with more than 60,000 threads it is easy to miss some. We are glad your here and look forward to more of your thoughts.
It's not that bad :).

The newest thread number is 62176, but there are only 56477 threads in the database ... some threads got merged or deleted along the way.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I am now reading the HH material again for the 6th time and i have to say it is so spot on. It resonates so in its intelligence.

The refrence to Saturn is a big one to take note of. Saturnia is the planet of Law and govenment. Its all finally making sence.

Hmmm


N

[Ultima Thule]

For the sake of argument I'd consider it possible that the notion by David Wilcock meeting the writer of the account, denying the authenticity, being the logical, by the book thing to do. Tell it like it is to create grounds for freedom of choice. At the same time deny it, also supporting the reality of the sceptical person and freedom to choose HH account be bs?

UT

[Maunagarjana]

For the sake of argument I'd consider it possible that the notion by David Wilcock meeting the writer of the account, denying the authenticity, being the logical, by the book thing to do. Tell it like it is to create grounds for freedom of choice. At the same time deny it, also supporting the reality of the sceptical person and freedom to choose HH account be bs?

UT

You are free to believe that. :) Just as sometimes people believe stories on the The Onion, figuring "Wouldn't it be the perfect cover for truth telling? To blatantly publish it as satire??" If you want to believe something, nothing will dissuade you. From what I read, Wilcock seems completely convinced it was a hoax, and I'm sure he's thought about it in every way possible. Perhaps you could write him privately on his site and get it straight from the horse's mouth the exact circumstances behind it.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

This is exactly what im talking about.

We want confirmation of scource before we fly blindly into belief. This IS the very thing thats putting people down the wrong road. It dosent matter who the author is or who thinks he is real or what david wilcox thinks .. all that is superflous to the " message ". The words theauthor wrote are highly intelligent writings and in that things can be learnedand inspired. Thats all that matters.

Naniu

[Kalamos]

..........

[Kalamos]

..........

[Flash]

I just started to read the hyzoloic stuff on Laurency site, and I enjoyed, but the site went down. I do not know if it is permanently or not, but right now, it is not accessible at all.

I Wonder where else I could find his writings since most of his books are not re edited and are no more.

And what about the site, how do we know what is happening?

[lookbeyond]

I just started to read the hyzoloic stuff on Laurency site, and I enjoyed, but the site went down. I do not know if it is permanently or not, but right now, it is not accessible at all.

I Wonder where else I could find his writings since most of his books are not re edited and are no more.

And what about the site, how do we know what is happening?

Hey Flash ive got it all saved on PDF tho i am at a loss how to send it anywhere, Finefeather may be able to assist you!,lb

[Ultima Thule]

I read through the ATS-thread with "Initiate" - a loooot of text ☕

Initiate-character had an air a bit similar to HH about him, also eerily similar(not the same person I am sure though) to the Edward Alexander character who got the boot from here when he denied his clear intention of profiting from the traffic he was trying to create.

There was certainly moments where Initiate was very credible. On the other hand he dropped the proverbial ball several times and succumbed in essence to name calling.

Very unfortunate is that precisely when the Initiate was - according to his own words - about to release profound information he claimed he and his unnamed order was in possession of - the thread was closed. Apparently something was found out about him that was a lie. Thread was then deemed a hoax. In my opinion it left anyone reading with an open mind comfortably(?) sitting on the fence. There perhaps is something in that character, but this Jekyll-Hyde thing he had going on, was disturbing.

UT

[Kalamos]

..........

[Ultima Thule]

The Initiate was a controversial character, it even felt like different people were writing his posts.

HenryB, how about you put up a thread about hylozoics, I for one would be very interested to read about it.

UT

[Kalamos]

...........

[Maunagarjana]

This is exactly what im talking about.

We want confirmation of scource before we fly blindly into belief. This IS the very thing thats putting people down the wrong road. It dosent matter who the author is or who thinks he is real or what david wilcox thinks .. all that is superflous to the " message ". The words theauthor wrote are highly intelligent writings and in that things can be learnedand inspired. Thats all that matters.

Naniu

Maybe I should think about doing a hoax like the HH, because I have some messages I'd like to get across to people. But apparently they will only get wide circulation if one is clever enough to serve those messages up on a giant platter of lies. ;)

[Anchor]

Maybe I should think about doing a hoax like the HH, because I have some messages I'd like to get across to people. But apparently they will only get wide circulation if one is clever enough to serve those messages up on a giant platter of lies. ;)

Go on, do it :)

Seriously, do it here on this thread. Brace yourself though... we may be able to help you refine your technique through a somewhat harsh and focused critique!

[Kalamos]

..........

[Maunagarjana]

Maybe I should think about doing a hoax like the HH, because I have some messages I'd like to get across to people. But apparently they will only get wide circulation if one is clever enough to serve those messages up on a giant platter of lies. ;)

Go on, do it :)

Seriously, do it here on this thread. Brace yourself though... we may be able to help you refine your technique through a somewhat harsh and focused critique!

No, I was being facetious. I would never do that. I'm not interested in anything but the unvarnished truth.

[Kalamos]

..........

[RunningDeer]

I just started to read the hyzoloic stuff on Laurency site, and I enjoyed, but the site went down. I do not know if it is permanently or not, but right now, it is not accessible at all.

I Wonder where else I could find his writings since most of his books are not re edited and are no more.

And what about the site, how do we know what is happening?

I check these five links, Flash:

Hylozoik Studies (http://www.hylozoik.se/english/english.htm) - Check here first, It'll take you to 10 different languages, including French.
Henry T. Laurency main site (http://www.laurency.com/)

These were provided by Ray:


The Planetary Hierarchy (http://www.laurency.com/L1e/kl1_5.pdf)

Gnostics (http://www.laurency.com/L1e/kl1_2.pdf)

The Black Lodge (http://www.laurency.com/L5e/L5e23.pdf)

[Anchor]

No, I was being facetious. I would never do that. I'm not interested in anything but the unvarnished truth.

Me to, but there is a complication.

Except for the fact that it is known for oneself, there is no unvarnished truth that can be told.

"The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao" (http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm)

Thus, the stage is set for the big play that enables shenanigans such as HH, the Bible, the Qu'ran and other big-name holy works, also such things as The Law of One, David Wilcock's utterances, yours, mine, others etc to be uttered and submitted for the discernment of each and every reader with possibly different outcomes for each.

Seek and ye shall find (but not right away!)

[Maunagarjana]

No, I was being facetious. I would never do that. I'm not interested in anything but the unvarnished truth.

Me to, but there is a complication.

Except for the fact that it is known for oneself, there is no unvarnished truth that can be told.

"The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao" (http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm)


The eternal, ultimate truth, no. Relative truths, yes. Some statements are actually facts.



Thus, the stage is set for the big play that enables shenanigans such as HH, the Bible, the Qu'ran and other big-name holy works, also such things as The Law of One, David Wilcock's utterances, yours, mine, others etc to be uttered and submitted for the discernment of each and every reader with possibly different outcomes for each.

Seek and ye shall find (but not right away!)


I would say that the HH may be true in the sense of the Picasso quote, "Art is a lie that tells the truth." Maybe it's a new artform native to the newfangled internet landscape. A new form of fiction. However, if the artist does not come out at some point and admit it was a lie, it tends to just muddy the waters for truthseekers.

[Flash]

Thanks Henry, Eram and Paula. The Laurency.com site still does not work for me - it is as if they had bumped out my IP from their site, persona non grata, for whichever reason. However, Eram has sent me the whole content on pdf, many thanks, now I can go on the reading - in English lol.

[Ultima Thule]

Maybe I should think about doing a hoax like the HH, because I have some messages I'd like to get across to people. But apparently they will only get wide circulation if one is clever enough to serve those messages up on a giant platter of lies. ;)

Is there some specific areas or subjects in HH interview that you view as being lies?
Let's forget for a while the notion from DW staff that HH was a hoax. What about the substance, what do you make of it?

UT

[Anchor]

Some statements are actually facts.

Sometimes, but not always. Not when you live in an illusion which contains paradox and infinity.

What we can all do on our different paths of seeking for the ultimate truth, is post what we may think are useful signs from our perspectives. We may do this out of the conceited and arrogant belief that we "know" something that others need to know, but even if done in humble honest humility and pure desire to be of service to others and the creator; the results will be just as variable.

That end result will lie on a spectrum of being understood to completely misunderstood with no real possibility of predicting the results!

Of course the bad guys play this game just as well, and their messages are usually more tuned toward what your ego wants and desires, or less sophisticated that which you may fear - a more certain outcome? Who knows. I am not so sure we are all dumb enough to fall for it.

Just take what resonates and leave the rest.

There are no rules to all this, just what happens and what is seen to happen.

[Kalamos]

..........

[Kalamos]

..........

[Maunagarjana]

Maybe I should think about doing a hoax like the HH, because I have some messages I'd like to get across to people. But apparently they will only get wide circulation if one is clever enough to serve those messages up on a giant platter of lies. ;)

Is there some specific areas or subjects in HH interview that you view as being lies?
Let's forget for a while the notion from DW staff that HH was a hoax. What about the substance, what do you make of it?

UT

It's been a while since I've read it. And considering that I think it's a hoax, it's not something I would care to revisit. But I don't think I can really answer that question. All I could say is what claims in the HH resonate as being true to me, and what don't. But if you like, I guess, you could make a list of some of the things in it, and I'll give you my opinion of it. I would guess that most of what I would agree with would already be found in the Law of One books.

The thing is, there are certain people out there who I think love to play around with the concept of the unverifiable. Things that are unprovable and unfalsifiable are their canvas. Lots of people find this type of thing to be really cute. I mean, we are at a point with the HH where even if you personally met the person behind the HH and he or she could prove that they were behind it and that it was a big hoax, I mean *really* prove it, you probably still wouldn't believe it, because that's exactly what the HH would do, right? Hoax that they hoaxed it. So it's unfalsifiable.

But just in an overall way, my take on the HH is that it is outrageously false that any of the elites behind the scenes are consciously performing a divine duty by supplying us with catalyst by playing the role of evil bastards. They may actually believe they are the saviors of humanity by thinking the way they do, but they are deluded. There may be people in the elite classes who may think much more like many of the people on this forum, but they would not be serious power players. They would in fact be excluded.

The people who run the organizations and institutions who really run the planet are deluded, sick, myopic, narcissistic individuals who are obsessed with power and domination. There may be some (the ones really into the black magick) who are aware of what the Law of One says, that there is such thing as a "negative harvest" for a very small number of people, but those individuals, should they actually achieve this, are in for a surprise when they are thrust into a nightmarish world that to me is indistinguishable in many ways from hell. And they will richly deserve it.

[Maunagarjana]

One thing I thought of is that when I first read the HH, I read the thread that originated that document on abovetopsecret.com and there were people in the thread challenging HH, and saying that some of what HH was saying was factually inaccurate. I can't remember any specific instances, but if you go back and read that thread (here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread402958/pg1 ) you may see what I'm talking about.

If anyone talks long enough, no matter how vague they are, eventually they're going to say something that can be verified in some way, shape, or form. Sometimes a perceived error is a matter of opinion, where opinions vary, but sometimes not. Although, even if someone makes a false statement, it doesn't prove it's a hoax, because everyone can misspeak or be wrong about some detail even if they are largely correct about something. But trying to find these types of things would be a good starting point for those trying to ascertain the validity of HH.

[Ultima Thule]

Few details that provide evidence against HH account being genuine are his predictions about sun events and financial melodian, meltdown that is(thank you auto correction :) ) happening at around 2008-2009. Which hasn't happened.

UT

[Kalamos]

..........

[seehas]

just read it the first time now, and i have to thank for posting that interview, didnt knew it till now :) !

there was some great information in there, liked the stuff about getting rid of karma realy much because its a huge job for me in my life and some things reminded me on what i have to do and concentrate for, the thing about the great harvest i belive this can start some weird feelings(fear) in some of us, for me it doesnt realy matter because i see earthlife as a way of learning and so i dont fear a "harvest" if life is over i chose a new life and it will continue at the right place no matter if 3th back on earth for 100000time or 4th somewhere else with or without the harvest doesnt realy matter.

something about fake or real:

when i was pretty young at school my teacher told me to bring an interesting video that we could watch in school, i brought an erich von däniken documentary about "präastronautic" because i realy liked it allready in younger years ... when the video was running the teacher was interrupting the video all the time telling everyone what rubbish this is he called him a lier and hoaxer ... kids listen to the dramatic music it is there to make u belive it !!! so i got a big laugh from the class and the video was ejected after some minutes, it was the last time i ever was asked for a video. for me it was a sad situation and i was wondering why they didnt listened to the information?

i think its the same for many "whistleblowers" many people argue alot about if it is legit and its not a fake "IS HE REAL?" i wont say it doesnt matter but listening to the information the person has to offer and take it to your heart.

[poetbil]

Good news ,lol "No one really dies and no one really suffers, except in the game...."

http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html :silent::silent::silent:

and here is the dialogue in pdf form : http://www.illuminati-news.com/pdf/DialogueWithHiddenHand-WesPenre.pdf

[Sérénité]

I found this bit interesting:

Why do you think the Media is so important to us? You have (as a society), in your hypnotized
comatose state, given your Free Will consent to the state your planet is in today. You saturate your
minds with the unhealthy dishes served up for you on your televisions that you are addicted to,
violence, pornography, greed, hatred, selfishness, incessant 'bad news', fear and 'terror'. When was the
last time you stopped, to think of something beautiful and pure? The planet is the way it is, because
of your collective thoughts about it. You are complicit in your inaction, every time you 'look the other
way' when you see an injustice. Your 'thought' at the sub-conscious level of creation to the Creator, is
your allowance of these things to occur. In so doing, you are serving our purpose. It is very important
to us, that the Polarization of this planet is Negative at the time of the Great Harvest. That means
Service to Self orientated, as opposed to Positive, Service to Others. We require a Negative
Harvest, and you are doing a fine job of helping us to attain our goal. We are very grateful.

And this too...

"In order to choose the positive path, at least 51 percent of our thoughts
and actions must be dedicated to the service of others. For the negative path, at least 95% must
be self-serving. Between the two lies “the sinkhole of indifference".”
HH: Your statement is correct, yes. So you see, how hard we must strive for negativity? It takes a lot of
effort to reach 95% Negativity. Also, you may be surprised how many people on the planet are nowhere
near reaching 51% Positive.
ATS: How do you choose a Service to others path?
HH: Be good to yourself. Cultivate a genuine Love for Life, and for Being. Be genuinely thankful to
the Infinite Creator every day, for bringing you into Being, and for his bountiful provision. You have
"survived" this far, have you not? You may not have everything you want, but you have everything you
need, in order to complete that which you incarnated here to do. Give thanks for that. Show
acknowledgment and gratitude to the Infinite Creator, for all that It has done, and is doing for you. It
has given you the gift of Life Experience, and offered you the Free Will to decide what you will Create
with it. Guard your thoughts carefully, as they are more powerful than you may imagine. When you
are coming from a place of Love for, and Service to your Creator, a life of Service to others will
become a natural outflowing from that. Always look for ways that you can be of assistance to your
fellow Beings. Being of encouragement to others. Build people up, and do not put people down. Be a
beacon of light, in a dark world.

Sounds easy peasy to outwit them...lets give it a go! :grouphug: