A question about reincarnation

[ProperLogic]

This is what I've always believed:

That we are all souls, on a journey back to the creator/source. We can get there by just becoming better people. And that when you die, your soul carries on and later you incarnate again to continue on your path of growing spiritually.

Deep down inside, I've always felt like I am an older soul. And I feel that people who have reached a certain level of humility, good will, and pure intentions do "graduate" to the next level.

What I don't understand is, IF this is the case why would we be made to forget our previous lives and experiences?

Wouldn't it be much easier if we were allowed to remember our pasts?

I eagerly await any insight on this matter, fellow Avalonians. :yes4:

[Woody]

Hi properlogic, i've had exactly the same thoughts, i often feel that my life would be easier to understand if i had recollection of my past lives.
I do believe that there are members of avalon who do have quite vivid past life memories.
Kind regards,
Woody

[conk]

Don't some say that the reincarnation belief is just more propaganda perpetuated by the highest levels of control? To keep us fixed in their false reality? Not to go to the light? Anyone, anyone? Bueller?

[Daughter of Time]

I fully believe in reincarnation since I have memories of other existences and how they're affecting my current reality.

When dying, many different "lights" can be encountered. And many of these lights are not the "true divine light" we're seeking. By entering the wrong light, which most of us do, we enter an implant station where we are made to forget what we've just been through so that when we return, we carry only a small portion of whatever wisdom we acquired in any particular life. What we get instead is programming to come back and experience more of the same insanity we previously experienced. That, to my understanding, is one of the most destructive and effective ways in which we are controlled.

[Lettherebelight]

Hello, ProperLogic!

I can only speak according to the Vedic version. Some people may say that's pedantic, I'd rather think of it as authoritative.

While it's true, any material acquisition and knowledge we gain during our 'lifetime' we lose...it is also true that any spiritual understanding we glean will follow us to our next incarnation. There is a nice verse in the Bhagavada Gita, where Arjuna asks Krsna the same question. Krsna answers that you have had many lifetimes, you may not remember them, but I do.

"In this path there is never any loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can save one from the greatest danger."

We are always moving forward spiritually and we never lose our spiritual assets.

The real task is to recognise that which is spiritual from that which is material. Spiritual activities bring us closer to understanding our spiritual selves, material things do not.

Hope this makes sense? Actually, it's pretty simple, thinking on it....I think you probably understand this all ready!?

[Lettherebelight]

Sorry, I forgot to add there are instances where very advanced souls are granted remembrance of previous births, or 'jati smara', although this is extremely rare. It is usually to assist them in understanding why they have acquired their present birth.

Maybe there are many here at Avalon who are very advanced...can't say I'm one of them, although I have had previous lives 'shown' me under hypnosis and through astrology (Brghu samhita), but I can't be sure of these...

[NancyV]

I can only state what I have experienced from merging with the Source many times over many years. I don't know that anyone else would have this same opinion because when we try to explain experiences we've had of Source, infinity, eternity, timelessness and unconditional love, that are almost impossible to describe in words, the descriptions usually differ from person to person. Our individual human brain also interprets them differently. I also won't say that I'm right and anyone else is wrong...and beyond that, I don't care if others have other experiences or beliefs. I can only know what I have learned and experienced. Everything else, every spiritual or holy book, every guru is only giving me hearsay interpreted differently from another person's experiences or theories.

No matter if one is good or evil, negative or positive, we all are part of the Source. We all cycle from the Source into the Creation, then back to the Souce...eternally. When we come into a part of the Creation that has the illusion of time, we may think that we are reincarnating if we believe in what others have written about reincarnation or we remember a "past" life. Many people think of reincarnation as sequential or linear. Sequential and linear are terms that deal with time. Time is an illusion. We actually have lived and are living all lives that have or ever will be lived... concurrently, all at the same "time". David Wilcock is not the only reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, we ALL are the reincarnation of Cayce. David may just remember it more clearly. From our perspective here in one body in the illusion of time we might think that we are separate and individual. We are not. This is just a part of the illusion. It's a FUN part so we choose to keep on doing it. It's a game.

Part of the game is thinking that we reincarnate. Part of the game is a belief in good and evil and that if we're "good" we get to go to heaven. Heaven is just another place where one can get stuck for a while. So is hell. If you believe strongly enough in hell your experiences won't be a lot of fun. Heaven is more fun but terminally B O R I N G.

You can easily get tricked and be manipulated by other parts of you, other beings here on earth and in many other dimensions/vibrational frequencies. If you are not in a state of being the Source, you are separated and in the Creation. The games in the Creation are without end. Whatever you can imagine, can happen. Everyone has an agenda no matter how light and loving and highly evolved they appear to be. If you are a being who seeks to be worshiped or who is involved in so called "selfless service", you have an agenda. All separated beings have ego and agendas no matter how much they may try to convince you that they are perfect, that you are still a seeker and that THEY have the answers for you.

We are all perfect and we are all Source. There is nothing else. Everything is exactly as it should be, as we decided it would be. We are responsible for it all. If you feel the need to "save" others or to save the world...go for it. It's your game, you can play it any way you want, but beware of the overwhelming temptation to become messianic. Then again, if you feel messianic and think you're a savior, that's a fun game too. In my opinion and experience there is nothing to save and nothing to be saved from. But the drama of it all is great fun!

[another bob]

Nancy is most generous with the wisdom she has shared, but if one is to stop with that and be satisfied relying on anybody else' experience, they are giving themselves short shrift. The point being, each one of us has the ability to find the answers to these questions themselves, rather than depending on second-hand information. Each one of us can go directly to our own Source/Higher Self, and get it first-hand. All we need to do is ask. "Knock, and it shall be opened" is more than just a nice idealistic phrase. It's the literal truth!

There are many methods by which we may commune with our HS/Source, including meditative practices, prayer, and inquiry into the nature of our original, primordial identity. However, one very accessible method that many have found expeditious is detailed in William Buhlman's books. There is in fact a thread currently on the board here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body

Don't settle for anything less than direct knowledge!

:yo:

[Spiral]

My personal experience of past life memories support the eastern view of re-incarnation, I don't remember all my previous lives or all about the lives I remember.

Non of my memories are coloured by belief or what I have read or seen on TV, as they originate from before I could read, and I wasn't allowed to watch TV on a night (childrens TV only).

The memories I have all have been "given" to me in order to make some sense of my bizarre family situation & the karmic lessons I have to resolve.

I think if people could remember everything it would only make the ego even worse, (not to mention the arguments over who owns what) although skills & languages would be a boon.

[Prodigal Son]

I agree with your assessment about soul growth. It makes all the sense in the world. Our goal is to become God, because that's what God wanted in the first place.

We're given the cup of forgetfulness for good reason. Full memory of our past lives would result in multiple personality disorder, severe mental illness, and an inability to function in this world.

If we've been Barbarians and such, I'd rather not remember it.... :(

[NancyV]

Nancy is most generous with the wisdom she has shared, but if one is to stop with that and be satisfied relying on anybody else' experience, they are giving themselves short shrift. The point being, each one of us has the ability to find the answers to these questions themselves, rather than depending on second-hand information. Each one of us can go directly to our own Source/Higher Self, and get it first-hand. All we need to do is ask. "Knock, and it shall be opened" is more than just a nice idealistic phrase. It's the literal truth!

There are many methods by which we may commune with our HS/Source, including meditative practices, prayer, and inquiry into the nature of our original, primordial identity. However, one very accessible method that many have found expeditious is detailed in William Buhlman's books. There is in fact a thread currently on the board here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body

Don't settle for anything less than direct knowledge!

:yo:
I sure can't argue with someone who already lives in PARADISE!!
:kiss:

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

I find Spiral's observation to be true - too much ego if we begin identifying with past experience - also the "self" that wants to identify is not the Self that continues. As one progresses, the truth of our Karma is steadily revealed. One does bring the spiritual lessons forward - those are the things that really count anyway! Soul/Self journey back to the awareness of One with Source is always present. Peace.

[Finefeather]

This is IMO a good explanation, there are others but they seem to me to be all based on this older version.

http://www.pranickolkata.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Reincarnation.pdf

[Abhaya]

I believe in most instances it is a boon to forget our past lives. The fact is the majority of people live selfish lives, and worse. If u started out your new life with detailed memories of all your selfish deeds and all the guilt that went with it chances are you would rationalize it and head right down the same path from the start or guilt trip your self and not even try or maybe become suicidal. So to start out with a clean slate, not in a karmic sense, but a clean memory, it prevents us from being overly hard on our selves and thus entering a rut, and preventing progress in the new life. It also prevents us from acknowledging our past selfish deeds and thus the likely rationalization and immediate decent down the identical path we took in our last life. The clean memory will leave us open to positive influence from others. When you reach a state of advancement where it is no longer a hindrance to remember past lives, or in fact it may be helpful then you may remember. We always get what we need to best help us what ever stage we are at.

[Daughter of Time]

If I had the choice, I'd rather know. I'd rather remember.

If I hurt someone, I'd like to atone.

If someone has hurt me, I'd be wary of them.

If I've made stupid mistakes, I'd like to learn from them.

If I've gained wisdom, I'd let it guide me.

This doesn't mean that I don't respect the opinions that differ from mine. We all have a different way of approaching things and we are neither right nor wrong.

But for me, if given the chance, I'd rather regain my memories than have them buried deep within me where they probably still affect me unbenownst to my conscious self.

[observer]

[....snip]

What I don't understand is, IF this is the case why would we be made to forget our previous lives and experiences?

Wouldn't it be much easier if we were allowed to remember our pasts?

I eagerly await any insight on this matter, fellow Avalonians. :yes4:

I too have spent most of my adult life asking this same question, ProperLogic.

After nearly fifty years of researching literally tens of thousands of hours of evidence, I've come to the conclusion the answer lies in the understanding that this particular density is a 'feeding operation'.

For the sake of a foundational understanding, allow me to offer an optional explanation as to where it is that the Mass of Humanity actually dwells.

A lengthily investigation of all the available evidence will conclude that we are dwelling within a 'locked-down' density (dimension) - a 'Prison Planet'.

One interpretation would suggest, this particular three dimensional reality was specifically created as a place for the 'fallen' to dwell. The evidence will show, this place is an endless a$$-biting-loop of birth-death-rebirth.

If one considers this as a possibility, one must also conclude that there is an hyperdimensional entity (or race of entities) that act as the 'prison wardens' to this 'locked-down' dimensional structure.

These 'prison wardens', or Archons (from antiquity), or, as I like to call them (from the evidence), a Reptilian Species, are using this place.... a place where access is restricted from all the rest of creation, as a well organized operation to harvest energies as a food crop - a soul farm.

Upon the demise of an entity, one's soul is trapped by the matrix that isolates this particular planet from the rest of creation. These reptilian demiurge then separate the essence of soul-stuff from the seed. They feed on the essence. Contrary to what we have been told, they feed on both negative and positive energies. The variety is much like differently spiced foods. They replant the seed back into another body to re-grow another crop of soul-stuff.

This is the only explanation that works when asking the question of 'why' most cannot recall their previous life experiences.

Only those capable of figuring-out the conundrum are capable of ascending out of here, and back to the God of Unconditional Love, from whence we all once separated. It's a matter of knowing where the traps are set.

One of the 'keys' to figuring-out the conundrum is: "beware of the message found in telepathically communicated thoughts".

All ideologies are walls to contain us within this matrix of control.
All ideologies are the result of telepathically communicated thoughts.
I say, Mr. ProperLogic, "tear-down these prison walls"....


Everything we think we understand is a small part of a much bigger lie.... and the lie is different at every level of understanding....

[Bill Ryan]

This is what I've always believed:

That we are all souls, on a journey back to the creator/source. We can get there by just becoming better people. And that when you die, your soul carries on and later you incarnate again to continue on your path of growing spiritually.

Deep down inside, I've always felt like I am an older soul. And I feel that people who have reached a certain level of humility, good will, and pure intentions do "graduate" to the next level.

What I don't understand is, IF this is the case why would we be made to forget our previous lives and experiences?



It's a great question, and an important one.

Everything I believe I know suggests -- but I do not know for sure -- that the amnesia is particular to this planet. It may also have been programmed into the DNA / body intelligence of the human genome. There is some circumstantial evidence that the 'veil of forgetfulness' is very gradually beginning to lift.

[Abhaya]

If we cannot remember our past lives the fact is we are not at a stage to Benefit from remembering. Period. Everyone of course would like to remember but if we look deep down the main reason for wanting to know is just simple curiosity, we don't really want to nor our we ready to deal with all the hard truths that exist in our past. If we truly were ready to deal with and benefit from it then we would remember. So one hard truth we can face now is that we are not at this advanced level. Chew on it deal with it and journey on. The path is what's important not where u are on it.

[Sebastion]

I have to attest to the truth of what NancyV and anotherbob are saying as I have had the same experiences. I have learned directly that each of us are extremely powerful beings and for the most part, stuck on not knowing it!

After countless experiences beyond the body, one learns a wealth of things. If we had recall of all the information from past lives, I dare say, there would be no point in returning here for another life! Why would you play a game when all moves are already known, including who wins? It's pointless and nothing would be learned.

This is a giant energy game and it seems to me we all came here to play for as many reasons as there are people.

It would really be cool though to have a round table discussion, face to face, with the experienced and knowledgeable folks we have on this forum. I daresay with the wealth of knowledge some of you have, we could probably figure out the whole game to the betterment of the entire planet.

[SKAWF]

This is what I've always believed:

That we are all souls, on a journey back to the creator/source. We can get there by just becoming better people. And that when you die, your soul carries on and later you incarnate again to continue on your path of growing spiritually.

Deep down inside, I've always felt like I am an older soul. And I feel that people who have reached a certain level of humility, good will, and pure intentions do "graduate" to the next level.

What I don't understand is, IF this is the case why would we be made to forget our previous lives and experiences?

Wouldn't it be much easier if we were allowed to remember our pasts?

I eagerly await any insight on this matter, fellow Avalonians. :yes4:

i kinda see this life as one pearl on an endless necklace.

i dont necessarily know that we are made to forget...

it may be that the knowledge of how to carry it all over
into the next life has been removed.

i read somewhere, that in order to carry yourself over,
and remain intact,
one has to encapsulate the entirety of ones being,
into an image
and then keep focusing on it
until the transition is over.

that might also be a way of bypassing any change in culture too.

i dunno.

i'm going to try it this time.

see what happens.

[Deega]

I too have spent most of my adult life asking this same question, ProperLogic.

After nearly fifty years of researching literally tens of thousands of hours of evidence, I've come to the conclusion the answer lies in the understanding that this particular density is a 'feeding operation'.

For the sake of a foundational understanding, allow me to offer an optional explanation as to where it is that the Mass of Humanity actually dwells.

A lengthily investigation of all the available evidence will conclude that we are dwelling within a 'locked-down' density (dimension) - a 'Prison Planet'.

One interpretation would suggest, this particular three dimensional reality was specifically created as a place for the 'fallen' to dwell. The evidence will show, this place is an endless a$$-biting-loop of birth-death-rebirth.

If one considers this as a possibility, one must also conclude that there is an hyperdimensional entity (or race of entities) that act as the 'prison wardens' to this 'locked-down' dimensional structure.

These 'prison wardens', or Archons (from antiquity), or, as I like to call them (from the evidence), a Reptilian Species, are using this place.... a place where access is restricted from all the rest of creation, as a well organized operation to harvest energies as a food crop - a soul farm.

Upon the demise of an entity, one's soul is trapped by the matrix that isolates this particular planet from the rest of creation. These reptilian demiurge then separate the essence of soul-stuff from the seed. They feed on the essence. Contrary to what we have been told, they feed on both negative and positive energies. The variety is much like differently spiced foods. They replant the seed back into another body to re-grow another crop of soul-stuff.

This is the only explanation that works when asking the question of 'why' most cannot recall their previous life experiences.

Only those capable of figuring-out the conundrum are capable of ascending out of here, and back to the God of Unconditional Love, from whence we all once separated. It's a matter of knowing where the traps are set.

One of the 'keys' to figuring-out the conundrum is: "beware of the message found in telepathically communicated thoughts".

All ideologies are walls to contain us within this matrix of control.
All ideologies are the result of telepathically communicated thoughts.
I say, Mr. ProperLogic, "tear-down these prison walls"....



Thanks Observer, I really liked your post!

I have had, for a few years, similar thoughts as you have bring forward, that we are caught up in this Matrix by a specific entity, for a specific reason. And I would love to receive your comments on particular questions.

I feel like you that we are in a prison planet, a locked-down density, a ‘birth-death-rebirth loop’. And this is done by ‘prison wardens’ that could be a Reptilian Species or fallen angels Luciferian type.

Would you mind share the information you were able to gather on ‘soul farm’?

Do you have any clues as to how they go about ‘separate the essence of soul-stuff from the seed’?

In your research, did you come about the way, human can detached at death from this Luciferious(?) process? It’s probably through unconditional love..!

And you mentioned that we were the ‘fallen’, were you able to find why we were qualified ‘fallen’, is it that we are part of their creation and they have a hold on us being their food stuff..!, or some other reasons…?

Many thanks to share this very interesting point of view.

All the best to you.

Deega

[Selene]

In my understanding, our specific circumstances and challenges in this present lifetime right here and now represent the sum total and distillation of all our previous lives, accomplishments and ‘unfinished business’. (This? This trivial life? This – what? Me, sitting here right now – that’s it?)

Yep. That’s it.

We don’t need to know anything about where we’ve been in the past, because what’s important is already here in this lifetime and what we are becoming of our future self. The past is done; the unformed future is what you create here and now. Yes, you right here, you looking out of your eyeballs right now at this room you’re sitting in.

You’re here, now. This is the meaning – and sum total - of it all.

It’s okay to stop and take a deep breath. Or laugh hysterically.

Abhaya’s comments in this respect (posts #14, #18) seem to me to represent the best explanation.


So to start out with a clean slate, not in a karmic sense, but a clean memory, prevents us from being overly hard on ourselves and thus entering a rut, and preventing progress in the new life. It also prevents us from acknowledging our past selfish deeds and thus the likely rationalization and immediate descent down the identical path we took in our last life. The clean memory will leave us open to positive influence from others.

Lack of previous memory allows us to face the same – or very similar circumstance – afresh. It lightens the burden of neurological memory and previous conditioning to allow us to apply whatever insight we’ve gained since the last time we faced the same problem.

Will we make a better decision? Will we respond with more grace or courage this time? Yes, your response to that stupid, irritating, pointless and/or crazy-making issue you’re facing right now does matter. That’s why you’re here, actually.

As a dancer, we always welcomed August in a bizarre kind of way since traditionally one does not take classes (otherwise six days a week of several hours each) then. A rest period, but we’d lose muscle tone and neurological response! Horror! So we’d come back in September with weakened muscles and lax, sloppy muscle memory, but – aha! – our brains would still remember what we needed to do. This was a HUGE healing response. We could ‘start over’ each September, without the auto-response pull of our powerfully conditioned muscles which were programmed with the accumulated errors of the past season, balance mistakes, false timing, bad extension, etc. – but! but! – we could now re-program the weakened muscles more easily into what we’ve learned! In September, as we’d stumble feebly back onto the barre, we had the luxury of using our brain’s intelligence with a greatly diminished auto-response fight from our brain’s neurology. We could start over.

Think of it as a new tennis match or game against a familiar opponent: does knowing that you’ve had a pretty sucky record here really help you play better? No. Because the only game you’re playing – the only one that counts - is the one you’re playing right now. That ball coming over the net right now…..

Lack of reincarnational memory frees you to be the person you are right now. That’s why you don’t need to remember your previous lives. They don’t necessarily help you.


Cheers,

Selene

[another bob]

In your research, did you come about the way, human can detached at death from this Luciferious(?) process?

You have to ask to go Home. That's it.

See post #24 here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529094#post529094

[TOTHE]

So, is the planet Earth a great big soul trap? Is it now we have close to 7 billion trapped here in the planet known to the Civilizations of the Universe as the one “dead forever” bouncing off the etheric bands?

There must have been a great war eons ago and we Humankind were the losers. The signs are that Mars had its atmosphere blown away, Uranus on it’s side, asteroid belt remnants of destroyed planet, Saturn’s Iapetus and our own artificial moon. Those “old souls” of the blown planet are us..still trapped in the solar system after a billion years.

Now we are in danger of making this planet unlivable for our elemental bodies that house the wonderful Human Genome. With no physical body genome to carry the energetic body of the Soul and the Christ Consciousness we will be really trapped forever for the end of time. Maybe the new life on Earth will evolve to intelligent birds or insects in the distant billions of future years but without any traces of the human cellular or energetic memory of our souls. Truly, to the Universal Civilizations we will be known as the “fallen”. As the Human Genome gradually degenerates over time with the unlivable home planet the off-planet bodies will make good slaves for the ET’s because of the loss of soul consciousness.

As I understand it this is a Free Will Universe. Nobody loves us out there but the Source of all Creation. Our energetic body is the only connection by our own consciousness to the Source. Because of the holographic Mandelbrot set of Universal Consciousness what you see here on Earth is what is also reflected and happening in the Universe. Earth is a microcosm of what is happening in our Universe. The Universe is a bad, bad place and we are not helping things. We are throwing both too much unbalanced negative and unbalanced positive energy into the Universe with our efforts to break loose from the “prison planet’’.

All said is my opinion. I have much more to say on this subject and how to extricate ourselves from this mess because soon we won’t have body or a livable planet to reincarnate to. We, our Souls, dropped into this timestream for a reason..to fix things. I am not a fast typist and my thoughts come mostly fragmented.

To all who read this I send you Love, Light, health, tenacity and courage.

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see observer's comment #16.

Thanks Observer, I really liked your post!

I have had, for a few years, similar thoughts as you have bring forward, that we are caught up in this Matrix by a specific entity, for a specific reason. And I would love to receive your comments on particular questions.

I feel like you that we are in a prison planet, a locked-down density, a ‘birth-death-rebirth loop’. And this is done by ‘prison wardens’ that could be a Reptilian Species or fallen angels Luciferian type.

Would you mind share the information you were able to gather on ‘soul farm’?

Do you have any clues as to how they go about ‘separate the essence of soul-stuff from the seed’?

In your research, did you come about the way, human can detached at death from this Luciferious(?# process? It’s probably through unconditional love..!

And you mentioned that we were the ‘fallen’, were you able to find why we were qualified ‘fallen’, is it that we are part of their creation and they have a hold on us being their food stuff..!, or some other reasons…?

Many thanks to share this very interesting point of view.

All the best to you.

Deega

Lots of questions, Deega, and so very little space to give appropriate answers. I'll attempt to gloss over the main points with as little text as is necessary.



Would you mind share the information you were able to gather on ‘soul farm’?


There are a few researchers that are speaking of 'soul harvesting'. It seems to be an issue that is 'taboo' to most of the hypnotized masses.

A few that come to mind are Nigel Kerner (http://www.nigelkerner.com/).

John Lear speaks of a 'soul collector' on the Moon. (a link to the interview where John speaks of this eludes me at the present time)

David Icke touches on some of what I'm reporting also. These are all good sources for foundational research in this area.

David Icke - "The Biggest Secret":
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret.htm#contents

David Icke - "Who Built the Moon":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvMTCMYc5cc&feature=plcp



Do you have any clues as to how they go about ‘separate the essence of soul-stuff from the seed’?


Much of what I say regarding the feeding process is from my own personal interpretations.

Surely, if energy is being fed upon, when one does not consume all of the available energy, than it stands to reason, something will be left remaining to be replanted. We are speaking of technologies light years in advance of our understanding.



"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke

Most of those who regurgitate the popular message being 'hyped' by the New Age Channelers, all speak of the 'feeding' being only on negative energies.

I disagree.

The 'feeding' is on all mater of soul-stuff. I don't think 'they' spit-out the good energy when they are feasting on the 'essence of soul'. I think they eat everything except a small portion I refer to as the 'seed'.

If it were any different than that, we would (at least) remember the good we have done in past lives. There are few among us who actually remember anything of their past lives. What I am suggesting is one possible explanation.



And you mentioned that we were the ‘fallen’, were you able to find why we were qualified ‘fallen’, is it that we are part of their creation and they have a hold on us being their food stuff..!, or some other reasons…?



From the records of antiquity, it is understood that the demiurge who created Homo Sapiens Sapiens did it for a specific purpose.

Throughout diverse civilizations around the globe there is always a reference to some sort of reptile figure. Among the oldest records, the Sumerians referred to these reptiles as Anunnaki. It is clear from the Sumerian record that these Anunnaki/Reptiles created Homo Sapiens Sapiens as a "slave species". It doesn't take a giant leap of understanding to conclude the purpose of this 'creation' is for feeding. We are speaking of hyperdimensional entities, here. [extra-dimensional]

As to the understanding this place is a "Prison Planet" which has been sealed-off from the rest of creation, this concept has long been addressed. Even Biblical interpretations say Lucifer and his following are "fallen". As a point of reference, I don't subscribe to any dogma - especially Biblical dogma. If one researches the chain of custody regarding the 'secret knowledge' (gnosis) from the Nazarene Essenes, through to the Cathar, one will understand the concept of what Rex Mundi meant to those who knew the true way out of this nightmare, i.e., ascension from birth-death-rebirth.

I might point-out that the TRUE gnosis died with the Cathar, and a 'false doctrine' was continued by the Templar, through to modern theosophy. There is SOME truth within these contempory dogma, but like all understanding, a good bit of what is being told to Human Kind is a small part of a bigger lie.

Much of what the Nazarene Essenes (http://essenes.net/index.php?Itemid=841&id=591&option=com_content&task=view)left behind was rediscovered in the desert of Egypt at Nag Hammadi (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm). There is now available nearly fifty codices written by these TRUE believers of A MAN known as Yeshua ben Joseph. These were the Christians that were annihilated by the Roman Empire in order to create a false dogma, we now know as Trinity Christianity.

Within these codices, there are instructions on how to avoid capture of your Soul by what were known to antiquity as Archons (hyperdimensional reptilians).

I believe, as Bill Ryan said in his comment #17:



"There is some circumstantial evidence that the 'veil of forgetfulness' is very gradually beginning to lift.


It's my understanding there are many amoung the members who are here to show the way out....

[realitycorrodes]

What I think is important is the choice.

Assuming past lives appear to be what people think they are.

If some wish to be ignorant of them, well, let them have the choice to be ignorant.

My only question is if they experience a great deal of suffering in this life due to something they have done previously in this life, would it not be helpful to know what it is in order to make the necessary changes to avoid future suffering in this life?

Most people considered "sane" would choose yes so that they don't make the same mistakes that lead to suffering.

Why would it be any different to mistakes in a past life that are leading to suffering in this life?

It really seems illogical not to want to know, if people sincerely wished to stop making mistakes that are leading to suffering for them?

The mind boggles. If people wish to be illogical then written English is not a good media to use to be illogical, as it is generally assumed that one should use written english (and english in general) to communicate logical ideas? But I could be wrong? Unless of course it is considered logical to want to continually suffer due to one's desire to be ignorant?

Most of the ideas put forward on this subject carry heavy brainwashing from religions - hence the continual need to perceive the subject egotistically as if the human race is special. e.g. I am so good. I am definitely going to heaven, while you are so bad and definitely going to hell. lol almost child like?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Copied from some othe thread - but I think its suggestions are relevant

Thanks again for your reply. If I had humans in a petri dish of pain, in order to use them to create emotional energy, so that that "emotional energy" could be traded as some kind of cosmic cocaine across the universe, the first thing I would do, after the farm/petri dish had been formed, is create a simulated dream world, for the illusion of immortal consciousness that elusively appears when a highly complex biological computer is running, in order to calm (cool down) the biological computer's (human brain's) anxiety (temperature) in regard to it's existentialism.

I am not a sci-fi writer, but it seems reasonably obvious to me that I would need to create a kind of simulated heaven within the physical prison in order to encourage such physical slaves to believe there is a point to their existence. i.e. the "reincarnation" IMHO is craftily built into this physical world (program), and does not pertain to some other place - a program within a program if you will.

People subconsciously love to hear about "reincarnation" as it is a balm to their fears about continued existence. Tell them what they want to hear, so long as they maintain themselves in the farm of torture and keep the production of "emotional energy" high.

If one can build the earth program as a farm of pain, I don't reckon it would be too hard to build the brain in such a way as to simulate (get access to) a heaven within its subconscious (a larger program) along with various access points to the seemingly eternal (larger program's) information. Besides the only reason people feel that "DATA" of a memory of an event belongs to them is they also get to access the "DATA" of the emotional energy felt during that event.

If anyone else was given access to the event DATA plus the emotional DATA related to such a supposedly past event (for the event may not have ever occurred anywhere - as it may have been just manufactured for convenience by the programmer), then they all could be made to believe they all had the same experience of an event of the past (life), when in truth all that has occurred is the opening of a "DATA" port within a biological computer (sensor/receptor/smaller program) which allows access to the core/shared DATA BANK of the larger program. Nothing is truly personal, individual, separate - there is only a holographic illusion of separation - in effect everything is just an intricately and seamlessly "woven together" sea of data, that is shaped and massaged into things that appear separate. Our own ego's (boundaries to our smaller program) are designed to maintain the illusion of separateness (boundaries) from the larger program (the system).

It these concepts are meditated upon, it almost allows a seeing through the digital facade, or at least allows for a kind of "reprogramming" of the biological computer(smaller program) in relation to the way the biological computer (smaller program) is interacting with the "larger program" (the system) - this reprogramming works in such a way as to minimize the smaller programs production of "emotional energy" - and as such, the larger program's statistical analysis of the smaller program (the biological brain) concludes that the smaller program is functioning inefficiently in is capacity to produce "emotional energy" - and as such the larger program may designate the smaller program as unsustainable - and as such discontinue its existence within the larger program (the system), in preference for another smaller program that is more likely to produce a higher amount of "emotional energy" - hence there would be no more "in theory" delusional reincarnation for the previous small program?? It would "I guess" simply be indivisibly merged into the sea of data.

I know - not what people want to hear right? It threatens their notion of their boundary from the system (ego).

The movie "Thirteen Floor" touched on the kind of situation we may be in. IMHO

But as always, I know for sure I know absolutely nothing - I am just making suggestions.

Also I am aware I have gone way of track to the original thread - my apologies - I will leave it at that.

Peace.

P.S. Thomas Campbell who wrote the book "My big toe" explains the computer based digital virutal reality of this experience - it apparently ties alot of the loose ends together - which is a sign that the theory may be correct - i.e. the more loose ends one has the less likely the theory is what is happening.

Dr Thomas Campbell - My Big TOE (1 of 18)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxECb7zcQhQ

Thomas Campbell known for his direct experience of alternative reality and his reputation as a physicist and his relation to Robert Monroe (OOBE expert).

Robert Monroe felt we were being grown to create "LOOSH" an energy that was traded universally/cosmically like cocaine for the pleasure of other entities. However, he seemed to find a way out, of what he called local traffic - local traffic being the reptilian agenda perhaps - by finding his way onto the interstate - going within to beyond his ego - a dfferent path that not many wish to do - as the implicatons of lossing one's ego is ini reality quite terrifying for those who have only known existence from behind their ego.


----------------------

P.S.S. In Michael Newtons Journey of Souls or Destiny of Souls, he has a client in deep hypnosis and is asking about "what if the soul, really does not want to come back" even after those spiritual guides with all their persuasion fail? The answer comes back that they get taken away for "remodeling"!!!

Does not sound good?

I get images of electric shock therapy for the mentally ill! Perhaps they are more agreeable to "reincarnating" after the remodelling?

[Sidney]

I thought I heard /read somewhere, that the amnesia was deliberately put upon us, to keep us enslaved,,,,slowing down our "growth" rate. The longer we take to free ourselves from all the the 3D charades, the longer we are slaves to this society. But I also agree with the theory that if we incarnated into this life with all our memories, we may be traumatized too much to improve our fate.

[Selene]

So, is the planet Earth a great big soul trap? Etc…

I think the short answer is: no.

We are here for a purpose. A personal purpose that involves the growth and development of our soul toward some higher frequency of harmony and expression. After that, we will have more options. But: do this first.

Yes, other planets in this solar system have imploded; they lost human bioavailability at some point a bazillion years ago. So what?

Are you seeking this as an excuse for your own soul’s future? You will be emotionally trapped until you figure out the way out, that’s all. Despair is okay as long as you use it as a transient emotion and not your final answer.

We are here on Earth because this is the right place – and time – for us to be here on this sweet Earth.

Do we face huge constraints? Yes.

So what? Did anyone say this would be easy?

We can – and I promise you that we do individually – transcend our constraints. You. Can. Do. This. Too.

We do this one soul at a time, with each our own multi-lifetime efforts. No one is going to hand you a free pass ‘mass ascension’ next Thursday. No. That’s delusional.

But you can get there on your own efforts, one step at a time. As seekers, saints and mystics have since time began. The old way is still the best way.

It may be old-fashioned.

But.

All it does is work.

Cheers,

Selene

[Spiral]

This thread is leaning away from the traditional ideas of re-incarnation and starting to join both ends of the loop with, ermm, well....... I'll say it, Abductions & MILABs.

The truth of which has much more to do with what has been so insightfully written here on this thread than a mere breeding program. (some of which if not all could be a screen for something far more eldritch )

[Ultima Thule]

I figure it like this:

If I am here to learn, I have to first unlearn i.e. forget.
To know all and to act on that basis would be akin to cheating, I deal with situations and act upon what I know, feel and understand at that moment, however imperfect that may be. I figure it is about exactly that - what do you do and how do you act when you don´t exactly know?

When we leave here, we get to know and remember it all, so we might as well play with the cards at hand for the moment!

UT

[danceblackcatdance]

i trust the astral travellers, they seem to agree from their individual perspectives... anything other than direct experience its just speculation :)

[observer]

i trust the astral travellers, they seem to agree from their individual perspectives... anything other than direct experience its just speculation :)

This is exactly the reason I caution the members to "beware of telepathically communicated thoughts", blackcat.

The astral sea of information known as the akashic records (by those with 'the vision', like Cayce for example) is patrolled by these archons, acting as prison wardens.

They confuse the interpretation of those attempting to translate these records. This has been the process since the Dawn of Man.

In all that time, what has changed? (It's a rhetorical question)

One can truly only trust one's own thoughts, and at times, even those are confused by design.

[danceblackcatdance]

i'm not sure if that has to be a rhetorical question observer, i suppose on the surface things seem the same but i would say that the tendency towards complexity is still increasing... maybe the infinite is finally getting to know itself? or thats a paradox in itself..:) maybe thats just my personal perspective, correct me if i'm on the wrong track... the veil does seem to be 'thinning'.

[Tarka the Duck]

I don't know about you, but these days I have trouble remember what I did last Thursday...:o

If we have had countless previous incarnations, how on earth could we ever cope with memories of them? That would be so overwhelming...
Surely it makes more sense to start with a seemingly clean slate - I say "seemingly" because we all have naturally occurring tendencies/inclinations/skills/cravings that become more and more apparent as we go through this lifetime...where did they come from? I think of past lives as lending a subtle 'flavour' to this lifetime.

We can't change our actions from the past, but we can change our future.

"If you want to know what kind of life you led in your past life,
look at your present life.
If you want to know what kind of life you will have in your next life,
look at your present life."

[Tony]

It can be a simple thing that convinces us.

What looks out of my eye now and when I was an infant has never changed.
It has been the only constant.
So the idea of reincarnation I say, "Why not!"
The main psychology about this is, one never gives up or gets old.
The other point is that we are born with different temperament, and the feeling...

..."I've done this before!"

Then there is the question of karma, we are born with this temperament that has a heavy attitude. It can takes many life times to exhaust this karma....even longer if we hold onto the attitude!:lock1:


Tony

[Deega]

In your research, did you come about the way, human can detached at death from this Luciferious(?) process?

You have to ask to go Home. That's it.

See post #24 here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529094#post529094

Thanks Another Bob, I will be reading your reference and be back!

And what is home when we don't know where we come from?, my best guest would be that we come from love, light, and some other sacred processes..!, for what purpose?, to what ends?

All the best to you.

Deega

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Lots of questions, Deega, and so very little space to give appropriate answers. I'll attempt to gloss over the main points with as little text as is necessary.



Would you mind share the information you were able to gather on ‘soul farm’?


There are a few researchers that are speaking of 'soul harvesting'. It seems to be an issue that is 'taboo' to most of the hypnotized masses.

A few that come to mind are Nigel Kerner (http://www.nigelkerner.com/).

John Lear speaks of a 'soul collector' on the Moon. (a link to the interview where John speaks of this eludes me at the present time)

David Icke touches on some of what I'm reporting also. These are all good sources for foundational research in this area.

David Icke - "The Biggest Secret":
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret.htm#contents

David Icke - "Who Built the Moon":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvMTCMYc5cc&feature=plcp



Do you have any clues as to how they go about ‘separate the essence of soul-stuff from the seed’?


Much of what I say regarding the feeding process is from my own personal interpretations.

Surely, if energy is being fed upon, when one does not consume all of the available energy, than it stands to reason, something will be left remaining to be replanted. We are speaking of technologies light years in advance of our understanding.



"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke

Most of those who regurgitate the popular message being 'hyped' by the New Age Channelers, all speak of the 'feeding' being only on negative energies.

I disagree.

The 'feeding' is on all mater of soul-stuff. I don't think 'they' spit-out the good energy when they are feasting on the 'essence of soul'. I think they eat everything except a small portion I refer to as the 'seed'.

If it were any different than that, we would (at least) remember the good we have done in past lives. There are few among us who actually remember anything of their past lives. What I am suggesting is one possible explanation.



And you mentioned that we were the ‘fallen’, were you able to find why we were qualified ‘fallen’, is it that we are part of their creation and they have a hold on us being their food stuff..!, or some other reasons…?



From the records of antiquity, it is understood that the demiurge who created Homo Sapiens Sapiens did it for a specific purpose.

Throughout diverse civilizations around the globe there is always a reference to some sort of reptile figure. Among the oldest records, the Sumerians referred to these reptiles as Anunnaki. It is clear from the Sumerian record that these Anunnaki/Reptiles created Homo Sapiens Sapiens as a "slave species". It doesn't take a giant leap of understanding to conclude the purpose of this 'creation' is for feeding. We are speaking of hyperdimensional entities, here. [extra-dimensional]

As to the understanding this place is a "Prison Planet" which has been sealed-off from the rest of creation, this concept has long been addressed. Even Biblical interpretations say Lucifer and his following are "fallen". As a point of reference, I don't subscribe to any dogma - especially Biblical dogma. If one researches the chain of custody regarding the 'secret knowledge' (gnosis) from the Nazarene Essenes, through to the Cathar, one will understand the concept of what Rex Mundi meant to those who knew the true way out of this nightmare, i.e., ascension from birth-death-rebirth.

I might point-out that the TRUE gnosis died with the Cathar, and a 'false doctrine' was continued by the Templar, through to modern theosophy. There is SOME truth within these contempory dogma, but like all understanding, a good bit of what is being told to Human Kind is a small part of a bigger lie.

Much of what the Nazarene Essenes (http://essenes.net/index.php?Itemid=841&id=591&option=com_content&task=view)left behind was rediscovered in the desert of Egypt at Nag Hammadi (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm). There is now available nearly fifty codices written by these TRUE believers of A MAN known as Yeshua ben Joseph. These were the Christians that were annihilated by the Roman Empire in order to create a false dogma, we now know as Trinity Christianity.

Within these codices, there are instructions on how to avoid capture of your Soul by what were known to antiquity as Archons (hyperdimensional reptilians).

I believe, as Bill Ryan said in his comment #17:



"There is some circumstantial evidence that the 'veil of forgetfulness' is very gradually beginning to lift.


It's my understanding there are many amoung the members who are here to show the way out....


Observer, thank you very much for your lengthly response, I will be reading your references and will be back with further questions if you don't mind!

All the best to you.

Deega

[christian]

This is what I've always believed:

That we are all souls, on a journey back to the creator/source. We can get there by just becoming better people. And that when you die, your soul carries on and later you incarnate again to continue on your path of growing spiritually.

Deep down inside, I've always felt like I am an older soul. And I feel that people who have reached a certain level of humility, good will, and pure intentions do "graduate" to the next level.

What I don't understand is, IF this is the case why would we be made to forget our previous lives and experiences?

Wouldn't it be much easier if we were allowed to remember our pasts?

I eagerly await any insight on this matter, fellow Avalonians. :yes4:

I heavily recommend Dolores Cannon's Convoluted Universe books in regard to that. It really opened my mind for a lot of possibilities. It all seems to be much more complex, with soul splinters, downloading past life information from any person at your convenience, simultaneous lives and much more. It's really not that cut and dry at all apparently.

[Finefeather]

I heavily recommend Dolores Cannon's Convoluted Universe books in regard to that. It really opened my mind for a lot of possibilities. It all seems to be much more complex, with soul splinters, downloading past life information from any person at your convenience, simultaneous lives and much more. It's really not that cut and dry at all apparently.
I have found that presenting people with the more in depth and complicated writings makes many give up because they are just not able to grasp the message....
So I always start with simple books, like the Raymond Moody material, which is easy to read and eventually draws people to seek more insight.
I have also found that no matter how many times you suggest a book or some reading to someone starting off, on a subject dealing with spirituality, they almost always end up with something else which they have been drawn to themselves. I have great confidence in the higher self leading each of us towards that which they can grasp at this stage of their life.

[Bing Lalo]

In my opinion:
1.- We are the creator, and we play this game because is the only way the creator can feel theirselves. We lost in ourselves to found ourselves.
2.- There are no graduation, this game has no end, is eternal. This mean there is no time, the time exist in 3D, and exist because give the oportunity of the change, and that change allow the evolution.
3.- Why we do not remember our previous lives? Well at some point we remember our previous lives, until that moment become in our evolution, is better for us to don´t remember. Why? Because for example, if you are a bad person in other life, and now in the new one you remember that, it will be really dificult to you to change that, and probabli you will do the same or you will be paralyze because you will be ashamed. In diferent lives you meet diferent people, and you have diferent relations, some times you can be a son, others a girl, others a man, a wife, ... How you will feel if you are in love in this life with someone that was your son in the last one. Meditate in this.
4.- You want to be allowed to remember your past, why you only think that you can remember your past, you can also remember your future. In 3D we have time, but outside the time, the past and the future dosen´t exist, everything becomes ONE.

When your soul will be ready, you will remember all. Until that, is a protection, because you can lose your head, i mean you can be crazy. We first must to increase our vibration to be able to handle the huge energy of God or Tao. It will come a time to all of us to be ONE again, until that, just relax and enjoy, and later on just relax and enjoy. This is a great game, if you want to increase your vibration fast, practice the Love and the Humor. The only way to be able to be ONE, the only way that we can be againg the Tao and not more the Yin and Yang is through the Love.

I hope this will help you... Be good and relax... everything will come

[Jenci]

Does the wave ever wonder what it needs to do to graduate to become the ocean?

or

Does the ocean ever wonder why it plays at being a wave for a while?

[bluestflame]

an energetic veil , a grid , placed around and anchoerd into the earth , when when the soul builds a body from available materials , it's limited in its expression , in its capacity to retrieve memories

each cell of the body has an energetic field it carries from its physical source within the energetically veiled earth, the sensativity of the soul is influenced by this

some old texts speak of breaking free of the cycles of incarnation , of the need for dettchment from "earthly desires"

it's the earthly desires that are the energetic bait to keep us locked in the cycle of incarnation , by design , but the trick is not by divine design

i believe over lifetimes there are many that have come into the world to assist in dissolving that system of control and that is what is is for what better way to keep the "battery factory" supplied with workers than to keep them from thier true awareness of thier true origins , from awakening from the induced dream

[another bob]

In your research, did you come about the way, human can detached at death from this Luciferious(?) process?

You have to ask to go Home. That's it.

See post #24 here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529094#post529094

Thanks Another Bob, I will be reading your reference and be back!

And what is home when we don't know where we come from?, my best guest would be that we come from love, light, and some other sacred processes..!, for what purpose?, to what ends?

Hiya Deega!

You actually do know all of that, and so does everyone else. Right now, your mind is clouded with speculations and doubts, but you have an antidote to that, which is simple and effective. You do not have to dig down for some memory association, or imagine what home might be like. All that is in the realm of mental manipulation, which is like smoke. In fact, you know exactly what it is like to be perfectly happy. To be perfectly enlightened. To be utterly free and powerful and immortal. However, you have temporarily set aside all that in order to have this human experience, so that you could discover more about what you are really made of, so to speak. If you remembered who you really are, you would not be able to derive what you wanted from this experience of being human, since you would already know the outcome. It's a bit difficult to explain timelessness in human concepts, so for now, you are going to have to trust that it is all working out perfectly. Even if you don't trust, nevertheless, it is all working out perfectly. It couldn't happen otherwise.

Just remember, when the time comes, and you drop off this costume, all you need do is ask to go Home. You will not be denied. In the meantime, make the effort to commune with your Higher Self, and all will be revealed to you.

Blessings!

[Nyce555]

This is my take on it. I believe in reincarnation and past lives. I believe that we do "graduate" spiritually to get a better understanding of who we are and our relationships to others. If we remembered everything from our past lives, then how could we truely learn anything. It's like having the answer key to a test. Why study when you know the answers? Why seek the truth when you know the truth?

I beleive we plan our lives our before when come here to put ourselves in positions where we make the "right" choices. If we continue to make the "wrong" choices, then we don't learn the lesson that we created for ourselves thus the need to return and repeat some things. Maybe we choose to go through mass suffering or maybe choose the life of a weathly person to learn how to not be selfish or maybe we choose to have a certain disability and how we cope with that or learning to love again after losing a spouse. Eventhough those things may seems horrific or even some things seem simple, they are all important in the grand scheme of things.

[AuCo]

I don't know about you, but these days I have trouble remember what I did last Thursday...:o

If we have had countless previous incarnations, how on earth could we ever cope with memories of them? That would be so overwhelming...
Surely it makes more sense to start with a seemingly clean slate - I say "seemingly" because we all have naturally occurring tendencies/inclinations/skills/cravings that become more and more apparent as we go through this lifetime...where did they come from? I think of past lives as lending a subtle 'flavour' to this lifetime.

We can't change our actions from the past, but we can change our future.

"If you want to know what kind of life you led in your past life,
look at your present life.
If you want to know what kind of life you will have in your next life,
look at your present life."

Hey, I kinda like your way of looking at life. ;)

There are people who drink just to forget. There are people who could not stand another day with regrets. There are people who wish they could start it all over. Well maybe being reborn is like starting all over again.

I've heard of people telling about their past lives. I've also heard memory can be planted. Well what I have not heard is people telling what happens in the void between one life to the next.

As for me, I am one who appreciate the many things that come my way and for each gratitude comes a feeling of indebtedness. In this life already I am having trouble repaying such debt, let alone knowing the many debts accumulated in past lives. Well, until I learn to let go I shall be contended knowing of what I am now.

[kcbc2010]

Reading people's posts on this topic has made me think of the character Dax on Star Trek: DS9.

For those who don't know, Dax is the name of an organism that is inserted into another body when the host dies. The point is that Dax remembers her previous hosts and their interactions with people currently living (on the series, of course). She tries to glean the good out of those experiences, but often remembers the not-so-great times as well. Anyway, towards the end of the series, Dax gets implanted into a different host because the first host dies. The second host didn't go through the proper preparation and training to handle the implant, so she has to learn how to deal with all the memories and feelings - while being her own independent person.

I find that idea relevant to the discussion we are having on reincarnation because I can't think of anyone who is emotionally strong enough to handle their own emotions and take on the memories/emotions/life experiences of someone else. (Let's face it, who would want memories of the worst moments of their lives - let alone the worst moments from other lifetimes?)

It would be nice to draw on some of the previous life experiences, but - as we are now - it would be so easy to find yourself lamenting on bad decisions or lamenting that you miss your significant other or BFF. Humanity is just way too immature to handle the issues that would come up. Maybe someday we won't be.

I see being able to remember as a gift that most people really wouldn't be able to handle. It seems to me that we are assuming that most of these experiences would be pleasant, but that's because our mind has the ability to block out and not remember things that weren't so pleasant. How much of our current lives do we really remember? I bet it's less than what we think we remember. Forgetting isn't always a bad thing. The mind is an amazing part of our body that we really don't know that much about. We need to respect that we don't know they whys and the hows of the mind. The mind works to protect us - even if we don't think that it's not. We don't have the big picture....our vision is incomplete, so we fill in the blanks...

[Deega]

Hiya Deega!

You actually do know all of that, and so does everyone else. Right now, your mind is clouded with speculations and doubts, but you have an antidote to that, which is simple and effective. You do not have to dig down for some memory association, or imagine what home might be like. All that is in the realm of mental manipulation, which is like smoke. In fact, you know exactly what it is like to be perfectly happy. To be perfectly enlightened. To be utterly free and powerful and immortal. However, you have temporarily set aside all that in order to have this human experience, so that you could discover more about what you are really made of, so to speak. If you remembered who you really are, you would not be able to derive what you wanted from this experience of being human, since you would already know the outcome. It's a bit difficult to explain timelessness in human concepts, so for now, you are going to have to trust that it is all working out perfectly. Even if you don't trust, nevertheless, it is all working out perfectly. It couldn't happen otherwise.

Just remember, when the time comes, and you drop off this costume, all you need do is ask to go Home. You will not be denied. In the meantime, make the effort to commune with your Higher Self, and all will be revealed to you.

Blessings!

Thanks Another Bob, my first reflex, in you saying ‘ go home’, was I’ll be in an environment of love, unconditional, but I was not sure of your definition.

I particularly appreciate your suggestion on what is the feeling, the sensing of being ‘perfectly happy’, perfectly enlightened’, ‘utterly free and powerful and immortal’, a power manifest on the higher limit of vibration!, this ‘home’ is attractive!

All the best to you.

Deega

[observer]

In your research, did you come about the way, human can detached at death from this Luciferious(?) process?

You have to ask to go Home. That's it.

See post #24 here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529094#post529094

Hello another,

I find your oversimplification of the process to be in perfect harmony with what I have learned. Especially with what you said in comment #24 in the other thread.

Of course, we both know, it is much more complex than just simply having to ask to go home.

A deep understanding of the when?.... the why?.... the how?.... the purpose for the containment.... and many more factors are essential to the simple act of, asking to go home.... and most importantly, one must be ready to ask.

In the days of the Nazarene Essenes, a mortal man named Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of exactly this escape strategy .

It's a shame that some of the document was lost to decay, but one can glean almost the same concept being suggested two thousand years ago by an individual who was inspired into Divine Consciousness.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/1ja.html

As a footnote to history, it is well understood certain elite members of the Roman Empire, known as the Piso (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_piso.htm), conspired with these archonic forces to create Trinity Christianity out of the life story of Yeshua ben Joseph, and to erase most of what this entity said from the historic record.

[Tarka the Duck]

I've heard of people telling about their past lives. I've also heard memory can be planted. Well what I have not heard is people telling what happens in the void between one life to the next.



Hello AuCo

If you're interested in the perspective of Tibetan Buddhism, you might find The Tibetan Book of the Dead an interesting read.

From Wiki:
The Liberation Through Hearing During The Intermediate State (Tibetan: bardo "liminality"; thodol as "liberation"[1]), sometimes translated as Liberation Through Hearing or transliterated as Bardo Thodol, is a funerary text. It is often referred to in the West by the more casual title, Tibetan Book of the Dead, a name which draws a parallel with the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead, another funerary text.
The Tibetan text describes, and is intended to guide one through, the experiences that the consciousness has after death, during the interval between death and the next rebirth. This interval is known in Tibetan as the bardo. The text also includes chapters on the signs of death, and rituals to undertake when death is closing in, or has taken place. It is the most internationally famous and widespread work of Tibetan Nyingma literature.[2]

Kathie

[another bob]

$5 Million Grant Awarded by Private Foundation to Study Immortality

The John Templeton Foundation grant to UC Riverside philosopher John Fischer will fund research on aspects of immortality, including near-death experiences and the impact of belief in an afterlife on human behavior


http://ucrtoday.ucr.edu/7496

[another bob]

In your research, did you come about the way, human can detached at death from this Luciferious(?) process?

You have to ask to go Home. That's it.

See post #24 here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529094#post529094

Hello another,

I find your oversimplification of the process to be in perfect harmony with what I have learned. Especially with what you said in comment #24 in the other thread.

Of course, we both know, it is much more complex than just simply having to ask to go home.

A deep understanding of the when?.... the why?.... the how?.... the purpose for the containment.... and many more factors are essential to the simple act of, asking to go home....

If you believe so, then yes -- it will be more complicated for you.




and most importantly, one must be ready to ask.

One is ready when they are able to remember to ask.

What goes into that remembrance will vary from one to the next. Some say it takes a lifetime to prepare. The Tibetans make quite a big deal out of the whole thing, as Kathie notes in her comment. This is why it desn't hurt to get a little practice in ahead of time, via the methods outlined by Buhlman, for one example. That way, one won't be so confused when separating from the physical vehicle. Moreover, by establishing a living communion with one's Higer Self/Source while still incarnate, one will be no stranger to being able to ask.

:yo:

[observer]

[....snip]

If you believe so, then yes -- it will be more complicated for you.



As I stated, bob,

It is much more complex than you are attempting to make it. Simplicity is fine for those with the knowledge, but....

"Simply Asking" can be compared to Nancy Reagan's campaign to the impoverished youth of the inner cities, where she said: "just say no". This may make perfect sense to someone with knowledge and understanding, but to an individual with no prior awareness of how to "just say no", this is a ludicrous proposal!!!

There really is an underlying complexity hidden within the structure of this particular reality. Only when one understands the rules and methods employed by those who control this matrix will one be able to escape the traps by 'simply asking'. Very few individuals understand the rules and methods.

Sorry for the debate.... just my humble opinion.

Other than this fine point of contention, I'm in complete agreement with what you have been saying within this thread.

[another bob]

Sorry for the debate.... just my humble opinion.

No problem, my Friend, that's what discussion forums are for -- to share points of view! Of course, beyond opinions, there is one way to find out directly, and that's to go right to the Source. My aforementioned Friend has done so, not once, but many times for years, and that's what he has shared in regard to "asking". We can do that too, rather than relying on second-hand information, conjecture, or intellectual research (although those tools can be helpful preliminaries).

In terms of direct experience, during a near death episode I was gifted with back in '84 for example, I was able to perceive quite vividly that the material world to which I had previously granted an objective reality was in fact nothing of the sort, and moreover, the person I had taken myself to be was empty of any inherent existence -- a fantasy of interpretation. Not only that, but all my previous beliefs were seen as mere children's fables, and all my knowledge like a wisp of smoke in silent infinite vastness. There were no controlers, no archons, no ghostly relatives approaching me, no Buddhist archetypes, no history of myself or the species, nothing but pure awareness, without border or center -- only God, if you will, and not even anything to ask for or avoid. There was no place to go to, no trick of memory to be performed, no judgment or stairway, no light or lack of light, no death or birth. Human words don't apply, at last, but I am not afraid now, just grateful for every moment in timelessness, every dreamy wave in this ocean of unspeakable love in which we float and have our being.

:yo:

[rgray222]

There is no doubt in my mind that forgetfulness or amnesia is built into our DNA, it would be very difficult to survive if we walked around every minute of everyday thinking about the horrors of Katrina, the Japanese Tsunami or the senseless deaths in Dafur. This built in defense mechanism extends to UFOs and other areas as well. It will all be revealed when we have the ability to accept the reality of life itself.

I have posted this before, so if you have seen it my apologies. If not it is a fun and thought provoking read.

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.

And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qVJ-qLeNGRc/Tg0tl6ScupI/AAAAAAAADi0/lNBr6x1h2j0/s320/6a00d8341bf7f753ef014e885044b9970d-500wi.jpg

You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you God?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”

“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”

You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.

“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”


“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”

“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”


http://www.churchyear.net/daliasc.jpg

“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”

“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.

I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”

“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a God?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”

And I sent you on your way

Source; Andy Weir
The Egg

[ghostrider]

I look at this, try and remember every moment of your life now, every day, minute, from sunrise to sunset, for the last 20 years. If you can do that, another lifetime would be easy but, we only use 10 percent of the brain. Thats alot of experience to cram into 10 percent. I think the other 90 percent knows what we are looking for. Split consciousness keeps things hidden. Crazy, when we sleep we are really awake. Leaving this reality going to sleep, we are allowed the 90 percent that is dormant when we are awake.

[NancyV]

Sorry for the debate.... just my humble opinion.

No problem, my Friend, that's what discussion forums are for -- to share points of view! Of course, beyond opinions, there is one way to find out directly, and that's to go right to the Source. My aforementioned Friend has done so, not once, but many times for years, and that's what he has shared in regard to "asking". We can do that too, rather than relying on second-hand information, conjecture, or intellectual research (although those tools can be helpful preliminaries).

In terms of direct experience, during a near death episode I was gifted with back in '84 for example, I was able to perceive quite vividly that the material world to which I had previously granted an objective reality was in fact nothing of the sort, and moreover, the person I had taken myself to be was empty of any inherent existence -- a fantasy of interpretation. Not only that, but all my previous beliefs were seen as mere children's fables, and all my knowledge like a wisp of smoke in silent infinite vastness. There were no controlers, no archons, no ghostly relatives approaching me, no Buddhist archetypes, no history of myself or the species, nothing but pure awareness, without border or center -- only God, if you will, and not even anything to ask for or avoid. There was no place to go to, no trick of memory to be performed, no judgment or stairway, no light or lack of light, no death or birth. Human words don't apply, at last, but I am not afraid now, just grateful for every moment in timelessness, every dreamy wave in this ocean of unspeakable love in which we float and have our being.

:yo:
Hey, Bob! It was in 1984 that I died in childbirth! Wow, it sure was fun and almost exactly as you describe it. I had left my body in OBE's for over 4 years at the time so it was not exactly unexpected but it was slightly different in that I got SENT back. The "others" I was with in a sort of group merge were only slightly separated and we had constant communication and were almost ONE but not like a complete merge.

All of a sudden after gazillions of years (timelessness) it came to my awareness that I was going "back". This was the first time I even thought about this life and the Nancy that I am now and the child that had just been born. None of it meant anything to "me". I started laughing and saying "NO NO NO, I'm NOT going BACK!!!" They were laughing too and all of a sudden I was forcefully KICKED back into my body, which was in a car driving the 30 minutes to the nearest hospital.

This was so funny that I couldn't stop laughing for days, even through all the pain of a retained placenta being pulled out and some blood transfusions from losing a HUGE amount of blood, so much was lost that they couldn't withdraw any blood when I first got into the emergency room. That made me laugh even more! I only hung around the hospital for a few hours and against the protest of the doctors I went home to enjoy my bliss in peace and quiet.

Although we are in a separate body now we are able to leave it at any time if we choose to focus on practicing how to do it. It took me about 3 weeks of concentrated practice and then I could do it regularly, as once you learn it, the process and path are known. As we travel to higher "dimensions" and merge with other beings and become one, then become ONE with Source, we then KNOW that we have lived and are living and will live all the lives that have ever been lived.

We will continue reincarnating into this and all other places in the Creation for eternity. We are the Source and the Creation. It doesn't end, it didn't begin. It just IS. We are the Archons, we are the PTB (and we were Hitler too! LOL). When we fight against negativity or "evil" we are playing with different aspects of our dual nature in the Creation. We get to play the game in any way we choose and it's all good fun.
:amen:

[ghostrider]

I would like to know, how many have had this moment, going about your daily life and out of nowhere you get that brief glimpse/feeling that stops you in your tracks, HEY I FEEL LIKE I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE ! For those few seconds , it is sooo real, then it passes and you think no more about it, till someone brings it up in conversation. I always reach two conclusions, I'm stuck in a rut and making the same mistake, or I'm on the path I am supposed to be on for this lifetime, with a chance to do things differently and finally get it correct. The other past lives being hidden hinders progess , I say, what would be the point , here is all the knowlege of the universe but, in your next lifetime you won't remember it, or be allowed to remember it. So why give it to me in the first place ? I won't remember it, only timeslips/ anomalies here and there now and then. Run the race almost to the end and ooooops start over, with no memory of the start or the race , then again almost at the finish line oooops start over and again and again. What is there to learn ? learn it forget, learn it forget it, learn it forget it, start over, start over, start over.. I said that to say this, sounds like a PROGRAM does it not ?? Someone is playing with spirits/souls. It isn't funny anymore. stop it. I refuse to incarnate again just to forget and die to go around the merry go round again and again. If I ever break free, I will go into the depths of the universe find this anomaly, keeping souls in prison and no memory, and I will stop it forever, in every dimension, I will find who did this , and change their mind. change the entire structure, easy for them to impose on us, they don't live it now, we do. they never had our leaders our suffering, our wars, our planet suffering, I have to power to stop it ,but we have a policy of no interference. really ? so sitting back watching prison and suffering and letting this happen is called being enlightened ? I would say , help when you see a need. Even if it breaks the rules, he's bleeding , nope cant interfere, what? give em a bandaid and take em to the hospital . Commpassion in action is more important than RULES. Even a hick farmer will put the horse down. The ET would say nope he won't make it but, we are bound by rules , so we let him suffer and die now thats acension. If ET were in our shoes, and the roles reversed, we would have stopped this madness long ago, . o h I forgot , I won't remember this, but I will keep doing it, start over, start over, this is my longest post but I don't care. It gets right down to it. If we could remember past lives, the problems of the earth would be solved in the morning..... we would know the out comes of every move choosing the best path instead of forgetting .

[another bob]

Hey, Bob! It was in 1984 that I died in childbirth! Wow, it sure was fun and almost exactly as you describe it. I had left my body in OBE's for over 4 years at the time so it was not exactly unexpected but it was slightly different in that I got SENT back. The "others" I was with in a sort of group merge were only slightly separated and we had constant communication and were almost ONE but not like a complete merge.

All of a sudden after gazillions of years (timelessness) it came to my awareness that I was going "back". This was the first time I even thought about this life and the Nancy that I am now and the child that had just been born. None of it meant anything to "me". I started laughing and saying "NO NO NO, I'm NOT going BACK!!!" They were laughing too and all of a sudden I was forcefully KICKED back into my body, which was in a car driving the 30 minutes to the nearest hospital.

This was so funny that I couldn't stop laughing for days, even through all the pain of a retained placenta being pulled out and some blood transfusions from losing a HUGE amount of blood, so much was lost that they couldn't withdraw any blood when I first got into the emergency room. That made me laugh even more! I only hung around the hospital for a few hours and against the protest of the doctors I went home to enjoy my bliss in peace and quiet.

Although we are in a separate body now we are able to leave it at any time if we choose to focus on practicing how to do it. It took me about 3 weeks of concentrated practice and then I could do it regularly, as once you learn it, the process and path are known. As we travel to higher "dimensions" and merge with other beings and become one, then become ONE with Source, we then KNOW that we have lived and are living and will live all the lives that have ever been lived.

We will continue reincarnating into this and all other places in the Creation for eternity. We are the Source and the Creation. It doesn't end, it didn't begin. It just IS. We are the Archons, we are the PTB (and we were Hitler too! LOL). When we fight against negativity or "evil" we are playing with different aspects of our dual nature in the Creation. We get to play the game in any way we choose and it's all good fun.
:amen:

Hiya Nanci!

Thank you so much for this, as well as all you share here -- you are one of the most remarkable people I've encountered, in a forum filled with remarkable people, and I am certainly grateful for having had the opportunity to meet and commune with you! Your perspective is so inspiring, and the humor you bring to the consideration, the sense of fun, is to me the verification of true wisdom.

Blessings!

[Mark]

One is ready when they are able to remember to ask.

LOL

this is the key within which all complexity lies.

You're so sublime sometimes, AB. Language can be so deceptive.

:wizard:

EDIT: Nancy, WOW. I did not know your story, no wonder I get such a strong resonance every time I read something from you! Thank you for coming back!!!

[another bob]

Language can be so deceptive.

Fortunately, this world has shining lights like yourself who can help make the crooked road straight!

Thanks for your presence, Brother, and the clarity you contribute!

:yo:

[Mark]

Thanks, bredren. Unfortunately I don't have much to contribute to the topic at hand.

I don't remember any past lives.

I've been told by others about some of them on this planet and others and I immediately get vivid images as a result, but I've never vested much importance in knowing about them.

Folks here in this thread have done a great job of explaining how it may and can happen and why.

The only thing I'd like to emphasize at this point is that, outside of time, where all consciousness is higher, there is a perspective that views all lifetimes simultaneously. The ability of the points of consciousness represented by each lifetime to access other points of consciousnesses, i.e. lifetimes, must indicate some greater ability on the part of that consciousness as opposed to others, to access that higher capacity of the greater soul of which we are all comprised. The expression of that capacity is not necessarily in the ability to remember the lifetimes per say, but perhaps in the greater concentration of ability and energy flow within that particular expression of consciousness, or, incarnation.

Aspects of the Greater Self through which it can shine through with less obscuration than with others. In time, we would consider these old souls, or those who had been reincarnated many, many times. Those who have the potentiality to achieve what seems to be spontaneous Enlightenment in the current lifetime without having any religious training leading to such.

[another bob]

The only thing I'd like to emphasize at this point is that, outside of time, where all consciousness is higher, there is a perspective that views all lifetimes simultaneously.

Indeed! This ties in with what Nanci has noted, and my own experience as well, and also with the testimonies of many sages and realizers, nde'rs, and mystics. Not only that, but at night, while sleeping, it is quite common for all of us to experience others' lives as our own, for indeed they are. Ghostrider hinted at this in his earlier post. We may wake up scratching our heads, and then be told by dream analyzers that it simply represented some aspect of ourselves. This is true, insofar as everything is an aspect of ourselves, including all we encounter in waking, dreaming, astral traveling, and so forth. If it is all one, then that also includes all the dark, as well as the light. Our real home is beyond polarity, but also includes it.

[observer]

[....snip]

In terms of direct experience, during a near death episode I was gifted with back in '84 for example, I was able to perceive quite vividly that the material world to which I had previously granted an objective reality was in fact nothing of the sort, and moreover, the person I had taken myself to be was empty of any inherent existence -- a fantasy of interpretation. Not only that, but all my previous beliefs were seen as mere children's fables, and all my knowledge like a wisp of smoke in silent infinite vastness. There were no controlers, no archons, no ghostly relatives approaching me, no Buddhist archetypes, no history of myself or the species, nothing but pure awareness, without border or center -- only God, if you will, and not even anything to ask for or avoid. There was no place to go to, no trick of memory to be performed, no judgment or stairway, no light or lack of light, no death or birth. Human words don't apply, at last, but I am not afraid now, just grateful for every moment in timelessness, every dreamy wave in this ocean of unspeakable love in which we float and have our being.


Thank you, bob, for reinforcing my point.

What happened to you was a purely personal experience. This experience has reinforced YOUR faith, which is a perfectly good thing. The experiences of your friend has reinforced HIS faith, which is also a perfectly good thing.

Nothing of this testimony is based in fact, however.

For example:


Were you actually clinically dead?
How long were you clinically dead?
Can you say for certain your experience will be exactly the same experience that any other individual will experience?


You see, by basing one's belief system on faith instead of fact, one can easily become delusional.

Personal testimony is a good thing when it comes to reinforcing one's faith. Personal testimony is a purely subjective understanding, however. Just as, in my earlier caution to the members, believing in telepathically implanted thoughts from someone else's personal experience can be a dangerous thing.

My purpose for commenting within this thread is to point to the facts regarding the reincarnation process, and to give my best interpretation based on those facts.

What I've said regarding a soul harvesting process is based on nearly fifty years of research into these facts.

One can be over simplistic when preaching to the choir. Under these circumstances, the choir is usually 'up to speed' with the foundations of the message.

It is when one is preaching to the initiate that one must cover all the obscure details within the program. For without a basic understanding of the fundamental processes involved - based on the evidence, i.e. an objective overview - one will be forced to decide subjectively to accept or reject the faith based interpretation you are presenting.

So to reiterate my point, 'simply ask' will work for anyone who knows where the traps are, and how to avoid them. Gaining an understanding of these foundational principals takes a great deal of personal research.

I would advise any member interested in researching the facts, to look at what is being said about the Moon.

Listen to Richard Hoagland, John Lear, Joseph Farrell, and David Icke (among others) regarding the true purpose of the Moon. Listen specifically to what John Lear is saying within some of his interviews regarding a "seven mile high, Soul Harvesting Antenna", and associated Cubical Structures on the Moon. Combine what they are all saying with an understanding of a soul harvesting operation. Hardly anyone is talking about Soul Harvesting - by design.

Decide for yourself if 'simply asking' is all there is to the process.

Research:
Coast-to-Coast interview w/John Lear-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTRFhrAr8us&feature=endscreen
Pay very close attention to what John says at about the 1:30 mark.

[another bob]

My purpose for commenting within this thread is to point to the facts regarding the reincarnation process, and to give my best interpretation based on those facts.

What I've said regarding a soul harvesting process is based on nearly fifty years of research into these facts.


Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion!

In all your 50 years of research, have you ever been to the moon to verify these "facts"?

Has John Lear?

Furthermore, have you ever encountered soul harvesting antennae?

Not that there's anything wrong with it, but it sounds like you have spent a lot of time reading other people's opinions, and calling them facts, based on your own fantasies of interpretation on perception.

You seem to believe that there is an objective reality. This is where you make your first mistake, and why you talk about "facts", as if they had some concrete reality. We use the term "fact" as a manner of speaking, but the sooner you come to recognize that the world you believe to be objective is indeed your own subjective projection, the sooner you will be able to free yourself from clinging to others' notions, and stand on your own direct experience.

Blessings!

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see the content of another bob's comment #63


There is no doubt, bob, that our reality is totally manipulated from within the foundational structure of the electromagnetic frequencies that are the 'base line' construct of the reality where we all dwell. This concept is a given.

However, to regurgitate the rhetoric of those influencing the Mass of Humanity through telepathically implanted thoughts is not the answer to the conundrum.

A simple review of the vast amount of "EVIDENCE" being excavated from the deserts of the Middle East - evidence that has been buried unmolested for millennia - will tell any individual that there has been a "promise of a bright new day" since the Dawn of Man. I ask the simple question, has this promise ever come to pass? (It's a rhetorical question)


The path you are suggesting can be compared to the rhetoric associated to "Killing the Ego (http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/10/13/four-reasons-to-kill-your-ego-that-arent-very-good/)". This path is NOT the answer. [thank you, heyokah, for that link]

The Ego is one's objective mind. It is what gives the Human Species the 'Will to Live'. The message gleaned from telepathically suggested thought has been to, "go back to sleep" from the Dawn of Man.


I gave the members a list of names in my previous comments to do research with. These individuals are among a host of other researchers (many of whom have been interviewed by our own, Bill Ryan) who are pointing the way to hard physical evidence, in the form of original photographs, critical analysis, and suggested interpretations of these evidence.

Your questioning whether I or any of these researchers have ever been to the Moon is a dysfunctional analysis of what are obvious facts.

Subscribing to a mantra that voids any resemblance of a rational thought process is a dangerous course to take when plotting one's exit strategy.

It is up to the individual members to decide whether they want to take the simplistic approach, and possibly spend another eternity trapped within an endless loop of birth-death-rebirth, or to look at the evidence being represented by clear-thinking individuals with regard to this phenomenon.

[NancyV]

For example:


Were you actually clinically dead?
How long were you clinically dead?
Can you say for certain your experience will be exactly the same experience that any other individual will experience?


You see, by basing one's belief system on faith instead of fact, one can easily become delusional.

Personal testimony is a good thing when it comes to reinforcing one's faith. Personal testimony is a purely subjective understanding, however. Just as, in my earlier caution to the members, believing in telepathically implanted thoughts from someone else's personal experience can be a dangerous thing.
Since I have also had a NDE I'm interested in your questions.

#1 clinically dead: There are several kinds of dead; sort of dead, almost dead, really really dead, temporarily dead and clinically dead. Personally I was not clinically dead since I died at home, not at a hospital or with a doctor. The nurse practitioner who was there thought I was dead and the last thing I remember her saying was "she's going!" So I figure I probably fall in the category of "sort of dead". Then we have "temporarily dead" but comes back to life. I was watching a show this morning about zombies in Haiti. They believe that black magicians can bring people back to life days or weeks after they have died. There are several cases that were compelling although it has not been proven as a "fact".

#2: I wasn't clinically dead but I was gone/out and they thought I was dead for about 10-15 minutes. For me it was eternity. I knew I was dead. Almost everyone who experiences an NDE knows they are dead.

#3: Anyone who has experience, a lot of experience in out of body travel, then gets a nice NDE thrown into the mix, would never say that everyone will experience the same thing after death...unless they were using their experiences and revelations to control others, make money or set up a religion. If we've merged with the Source we know what will happen with everyone because we are everyone, but telling that to others who haven't experienced it wouldn't mean much. What we experience after death AND in OBE's depends entirely on our beliefs and if we can overcome or let go of those beliefs. A true Christian may see Jesus and go to heaven, or be dragged into hell. A Muslim may meet Allah and get blessed (cursed) with 72 virgins. If we let go of all beliefs we can merge with Source.


My purpose for commenting within this thread is to point to the facts regarding the reincarnation process, and to give my best interpretation based on those facts.
In my opinion there are no "facts" to be presented. There are opinions (like mine), some kinds of empirical evidence, theories, hearsay, etc. but FACTS are elusive and nebulous. That's why it's interesting to discuss all aspects of reincarnation, since all theories and so called facts are based on either questionable evidence, hearsay or direct experience, all of which are subject to misinterpretation.


What I've said regarding a soul harvesting process is based on nearly fifty years of research into these facts.
I have great respect for research and it's a lifelong hobby of mine, but the more I think I know, the more I know I know only what I directly experience...and even that is subject to change or reassessment because one can be mistaken or deluded almost all the way up to the Source if they have any hard and fast belief in facts still attached to their consciousness. But you don't get very far until you let go of ALL beliefs. You will remain in the lower vibrational frequency dimensions and be subject to and participate in all the games going on there. All of these games are subject to illusion and in fact ARE illusions that we create for fun.


One can be over simplistic when preaching to the choir. Under these circumstances, the choir is usually 'up to speed' with the foundations of the message.
Possibly being overly simplistic does not appeal to those of us who are infatuated with our superior intellectuality and desire a more complex scenario. I have leaned towards this trait for much of my life. However, there is HUGE complexity within simplicity. In fact there is nothing more complex than simplicity! LOL...


It is when one is preaching to the initiate that one must cover all the obscure details within the program. For without a basic understanding of the fundamental processes involved - based on the evidence, i.e. an objective overview - one will be forced to decide subjectively to accept or reject the faith based interpretation you are presenting.
I'm sure neither Bob nor I would ask or expect anyone to accept any of our experiences as ones that would be valid for them. I also do not accept that others so called facts are valid. Knowing for oneself is based on experiences. Accepting and believing someones word for what they have experienced or learned from research is believing hearsay.

So to reiterate my point, 'simply ask' will work for anyone who knows where the traps are, and how to avoid them. Gaining an understanding of these foundational principals takes a great deal of personal research.
"Simply ask" is very good advice for anyone who finds themselves dead or out of body. It's something simple to remember which is often important if you're confused when you find that you're dead or in an OBE. In addition I would say "simply command". But I would venture to guess that Bob is a bit more genuinely humble in his human persona than I am.


I would advise any member interested in researching the facts, to look at what is being said about the Moon.

Listen to Richard Hoagland, John Lear, Joseph Farrell, and David Icke (among others) regarding the true purpose of the Moon. Listen specifically to what John Lear is saying within some of his interviews regarding a "seven mile high, Soul Harvesting Antenna", and associated Cubical Structures on the Moon. Combine what they are all saying with an understanding of a soul harvesting operation. Hardly anyone is talking about Soul Harvesting - by design.

Decide for yourself if 'simply asking' is all there is to the process.
I've listened to Lear, Hoagland and Icke for years. Hoagland seems to be somewhat of a deliberate liar and certainly likes to invent theories and make predictions which don't come to fruition. I love John Lear but do I believe everything he says? No. Same for David Icke. I really love him but he is subject to misinterpretations and illusions, just as we all are.

Possibly there is some kind of attempt at "soul harvesting" going on. I probably consider that the souls who end up in "heaven" have been harvested. What I saw when I passed through "heaven" was people who believed a certain way and were trapped in a prison of their own making. A relatively NICE prison, admittedly, but still a place where a soul is stuck and worships an illusionary "god". These places exist because of beliefs and because some souls are playing the control game in controlling other souls. Sometimes the control games might be for the BENEFIT of those controlled. I don't know that for sure. I only know that I personally reject control and I reject accepting absolute beliefs.

Maybe the more people know about potential soul harvesting the more they will be able to resist it. But I would certainly never lead anyone to believe that it is inevitable that they will be powerless to overcome any kind of soul harvesting. If they must develop ANY belief it would better be a belief in their own absolute power to go directly to the Source and not be successfully interfered with or harvested and get stuck in another illusionary prison, like heaven.


"Killing the Ego" is NOT the answer.
I completely agree with you. Some consider expanding into fuller consciousness and merging with the Source as letting go of Ego. Personally I view it as expanding the Ego to include everything. I also view the ego as very important and fun to have here on earth. We have an ego for a reason and I love my ego!

But "ego" is just a word and I think we just tend to use different words to describe the same process of evolving towards the Source.

Research:
Coast-to-Coast interview w/John Lear-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTRFhrAr8us&feature=endscreen
Pay very close attention to what John says at about the 1:30 mark.

[another bob]

Since I have also had a NDE I'm interested in your questions.

Thank you so much, Nancy, for taking the time and effort to clarify these matters so generously! This forum is truly fortunate to have you sharing your remarkable experience and wisdom!


:rapture:

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see the content of NancyV's comment #65.

Yes and, I thank you also, Nancy, for your very in-depth analysis of my previous comments. I cannot say I disagree with any of your conclusions with a certain caveat.

I might point-out everything you said is based on your personal interpretation of your very private reality.

Each and every attestation you made to the points I have made in my comments are from your own personal subjective interpretations of your individual experiences.... i.e., your testimonies. This has consistently been my point in this debate.

Where in what your are saying, are the photographic evidence, the charts, the other witnesses to your experience?

I personally, have long understood, the astral plain is patrolled by (let's call them) archonic energies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit) - especially those areas of the astral known as the Akashic Records. There is much evidence to the existence of archons - even if one has made the decision that any sort of evidence, in general, really doesn't exist.

How can any other individual be certain - beyond a shadow of doubt - that the experiences shared by both you and bob were not influenced by something from this archonic matrix?

Does anyone have proof - beyond a shadow of doubt - the messages they are receiving telepathically, or the experiences they are having in the astral - either dreaming or in trance - are anything other than archonic influenced experiences.

Where, within your personal testimony, is the conformation that your experience was untainted - other than your personal conformation?

This is the point of my debate. I've said all on the subject I care to, at this time.

Thank you for listening....

[NancyV]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see the content of NancyV's comment #65.

Yes and, I thank you also, Nancy, for your very in-depth analysis of my previous comments. I cannot say I disagree with any of your conclusions with a certain caveat.

I might point-out everything you said is based on your personal interpretation of your very private reality.

Each and every attestation you made to the points I have made in my comments are from your own personal subjective interpretations of your individual experiences.... i.e., your testimonies. This has consistently been my point in this debate.

Where in what your are saying, are the photographic evidence, the charts, the other witnesses to your experience?

I personally, have long understood, the astral plain is patrolled by (let's call them) archonic energies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit) - especially those areas of the astral known as the Akashic Records. There is much evidence to the existence of archons - even if one has made the decision that any sort of evidence, in general, really doesn't exist.

How can any other individual be certain - beyond a shadow of doubt - that the experiences shared by both you and bob were not influenced by something from this archonic matrix?

Does anyone have proof - beyond a shadow of doubt - the messages they are receiving telepathically, or the experiences they are having in the astral - either dreaming or in trance - are anything other than archonic influenced experiences.

Where, within your personal testimony, is the conformation that your experience was untainted - other than your personal conformation?

This is the point of my debate. I've said all on the subject I care to, at this time.

Thank you for listening....
I think we both agree, observer! Thanks for the very intelligent comments!

There is most likely no proof of anything nor will there ever be proof. Even so called physical facts can be faked either by mind control/archontic influence or some advanced technology. Certainly lies and self delusion are rampant. But we each do the best we can to come to an understanding that suits our individual theories and experiences.
Nancy :kiss:

[Carmody]

If you remembered who you really are, you would not be able to derive what you wanted from this experience of being human, since you would already know the outcome. It's a bit difficult to explain timelessness in human concepts, so for now, you are going to have to trust that it is all working out perfectly. Even if you don't trust, nevertheless, it is all working out perfectly. It couldn't happen otherwise.




Sometimes it makes me think of The Holy Grail. "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot, it is a silly place."
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfGpVcdqeS0)

[Timreh]

I don't know, who really does?
All I have is unassembled pieces..

To me Earth is a school..
Our amnesia must there for a reason..
Some have been at this school for a while and others have come from different schools.

One thing I can share, around 20 years ago I was preparing to take my life and all that stopped me was a 'knowing' deep down that I was here for a reason and that I would be making a terrible mistake.

How much do I know.. diddley squat! :amen:

[Shamz]

There is no doubt in my mind that forgetfulness or amnesia is built into our DNA, it would be very difficult to survive if we walked around every minute of everyday thinking about the horrors of Katrina, the Japanese Tsunami or the senseless deaths in Dafur. This built in defense mechanism extends to UFOs and other areas as well. It will all be revealed when we have the ability to accept the reality of life itself.

I have posted this before, so if you have seen it my apologies. If not it is a fun and thought provoking read.

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.

And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qVJ-qLeNGRc/Tg0tl6ScupI/AAAAAAAADi0/lNBr6x1h2j0/s320/6a00d8341bf7f753ef014e885044b9970d-500wi.jpg

You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you God?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”

“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”

You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.

“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”


“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”

“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”


http://www.churchyear.net/daliasc.jpg

“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”

“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.

I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”

“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a God?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”

And I sent you on your way

Source; Andy Weir
The Egg

This is the best I have ever read and I had so many tears flowing without even realizing or wanting it.
The best of all this is
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

If you can really feel it... not just read it... you will experience so many chills in your body... just consider yourself to be everyone else and everyone else to be you. Just have this feeling and even then you will feel great. What I do is when I got to Mall or park, I look at people roaming around...busy with their life..shopping...running...boating... kids playing... I tend to think they are all but me... sometime even if I don't feel.. I still think... after some time it gives me chills ... try it next time.
Love and peace to you all.