What if Humans are analyzed by Aliens in How we Treat Animals? Equals same Fate?

[ExomatrixTV]

gNOuSZC2EXI
source video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNOuSZC2EXI&lc)

Published on Aug 4, 2012 by women4truth (http://www.youtube.com/user/women4truth)

(http://www.youtube.com/user/women4truth)
~DISCLAIMER: Gary Yourofsky did NOT ask that question ... I did :) ~credit video: http://youtube.com/TheAnimalHolocaust

Gary Yourofsky's entire inspirational speech on animal rights and veganism held at Georgia Tech in summer of 2010. Listen to this amazing speaker who will blow away the myths, fill your mind with interesting facts, and help you make ethical choices for a healthy heart and soul. His charismatic and straightforward style is one of a kind - a must-see for anyone who cares about nonhuman animals or wishes to make the world a better place.

The Q&A session can be seen here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WIkC4OJEx3c

Another great lecture by James Wildman:
http://bit.ly/101arff

PLEASE SHARE this brilliant speech in any way you can. Read the amount of positive feedback this speech creates:
http://adaptt.org/comments-students.html

Learn more:
http://adaptt.org
http://chooseveg.com
http://30bananasaday.com
http://foodnsport.com
http://pcrm.org
http://veganbodybuilding.com
http://veganhealth.org
http://drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm

International versions:
Arabic: http://youtube.com/watch?v=69450xPtX7k
Bulgarian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8-uMsEgEkBQ
Chinese Simplified version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKwLQuKSQS4
Chinese Traditional version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=u4a_ewFCwHw
Croatian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oBSiRTdLmp8
Czech version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zMuJ-bDs30M
Danish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=7lklESe1pMs
Dutch version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pmAYUf3aemg
Estonian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LQpAr2JILRA
French version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9ivPJUypbVs
German version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9d44U5pvTmU
Greek version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=37GRXaIgVwY
Hebrew version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=omweihtaYwI
Hebrew censored version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ittFtDAAab0
Hungarian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mLk0hYiX_Ak
Indonesian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KU-ogfvoAkw
Italian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8DQoJTwEN0Q
Lithuanian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=IB-7rPT5Dk8
Mongolian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KxM8PXqMWaM
Polish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=t3DPCQjlanM
Portuguese-BR version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8bH-doHSY_o
Romanian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nAu_TxmvCEg
Russian version : http://youtube.com/watch?v=eYp6ABzUuKQ
Russian voice-over version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqwUXA2k52A
Serbian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=YnONLDo6PWI
Slovenian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7A20SM3OI
Spanish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZzvK5uLu7F0
Swedish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=CP-HOe1OdvI
Turkish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ocqCy0qEkA

Esperanto, Hindi, Japanese, Persian, Thai, Vietnamese are in progress (help is needed).


Download Link (avi, 1.44GB; send me a private message if the file is not available):
http://bit.ly/GaryFile
http://bit.ly/speechfile

Send me a message if you want to translate this speech to another language - IT"S EASIER THAN YOU THINK !!

Gary is a national lecturer on veganism and does over 200 talks each year.
Book Gary Yourofsky at your school:
http://adaptt.org

Please subscribe to Gary's YouTube channel:
http://youtube.com/user/adapttvideo

Read how effective this speech is:
http://gary-tv.com/en/

[Nenuphar]

Re: the thread title, I have often pondered the same thing (if we would be judged/evaulated based on how we treat the animals of this planet)...and then wondered, with dread, "As Above, So Below?"

Add:
I laughed out loud from 9:30 to 10:30 watching this video. What he's saying there is *so* true!

[ExomatrixTV]

~imagine he is an Alien giving a lecture to other Aliens about how they treat Humans ... in the same context & level of abuse what we do to animals ... what would you think about that "Alien" lecturing other "Aliens" would you be at least happy that 1 Alien is speaking on your behalf? What if Earth is a Giant Breeding Zoo or Giant Laboratory ... would that be " far fetched"? Scary thoughts, I certainly hope it is NOT true and that there is a bigger overlooked picture!







~you do not know what they put in animals (Google Transgenics) & animals eating GMO food
... but this video is NOT about "genocide by NWO" but our behavior & hypocritical "ethics" we suppose to have !!!

[butcherman]

like nature around us we may just be a tasty snack !!

Butcherman

[ExomatrixTV]

~what if eating meat equals LOWERING your vibrations to a level where you can not be inspired by higher consciousness, higher intelligence, intuitions that can save you, blocking your true potential, maybe even preventing you to ascend to an higher plane of existence, what if PART of our emotions are polluted because of eating meat, what if real benevolent aliens do not want to be close to meat eaters but lower aliens do (lol) that would be the ULTIMATE Karma! ... As you sow so shall you Reap!

[aranuk]

~what if eating meat equals LOWERING your vibrations to a level where you can not be inspired by higher consciousness, higher intelligence, intuitions that can save you, blocking your true potential, maybe even preventing you to ascend to an higher plane of existence, what if PART of our emotions are polluted because of eating meat, what if real benevolent aliens do not want to be close to meat eaters but lower aliens do (lol) that would be the ULTIMATE Karma! ... As you sow so shall you Reap!

Some people think that eating only vegetables is the way to a higher understanding and spiritual mastery. It takes much more than that I feel. If I eat a bacon sandwich and help an old lady across the road am I not a better person than someone who eats a veggie salad and kills someody an hour later. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that there have been many mass murderers who were vegans. Maybe Hitler or George Bush sen, George W Bush and the likes of Tony Blair were vegitarians? Has there ever been any kind of data collected anywhere? It would be intersesting indeed. If my memory serves me I think Hitler was tee total and vegitarian.


Stan

[gigha]

That is one big what if??


gNOuSZC2EXI
source video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNOuSZC2EXI&lc)

Published on Aug 4, 2012 by women4truth (http://www.youtube.com/user/women4truth)

(http://www.youtube.com/user/women4truth)
~DISCLAIMER: Gary Yourofsky did NOT ask that question ... I did :) ~credit video: http://youtube.com/TheAnimalHolocaust

Gary Yourofsky's entire inspirational speech on animal rights and veganism held at Georgia Tech in summer of 2010. Listen to this amazing speaker who will blow away the myths, fill your mind with interesting facts, and help you make ethical choices for a healthy heart and soul. His charismatic and straightforward style is one of a kind - a must-see for anyone who cares about nonhuman animals or wishes to make the world a better place.

The Q&A session can be seen here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WIkC4OJEx3c

Another great lecture by James Wildman:
http://bit.ly/101arff

PLEASE SHARE this brilliant speech in any way you can. Read the amount of positive feedback this speech creates:
http://adaptt.org/comments-students.html

Learn more:
http://adaptt.org
http://chooseveg.com
http://30bananasaday.com
http://foodnsport.com
http://pcrm.org
http://veganbodybuilding.com
http://veganhealth.org
http://drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm

International versions:
Arabic: http://youtube.com/watch?v=69450xPtX7k
Bulgarian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8-uMsEgEkBQ
Chinese Simplified version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKwLQuKSQS4
Chinese Traditional version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=u4a_ewFCwHw
Croatian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oBSiRTdLmp8
Czech version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zMuJ-bDs30M
Danish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=7lklESe1pMs
Dutch version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pmAYUf3aemg
Estonian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LQpAr2JILRA
French version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9ivPJUypbVs
German version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9d44U5pvTmU
Greek version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=37GRXaIgVwY
Hebrew version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=omweihtaYwI
Hebrew censored version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ittFtDAAab0
Hungarian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mLk0hYiX_Ak
Indonesian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KU-ogfvoAkw
Italian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8DQoJTwEN0Q
Lithuanian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=IB-7rPT5Dk8
Mongolian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KxM8PXqMWaM
Polish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=t3DPCQjlanM
Portuguese-BR version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8bH-doHSY_o
Romanian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nAu_TxmvCEg
Russian version : http://youtube.com/watch?v=eYp6ABzUuKQ
Russian voice-over version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqwUXA2k52A
Serbian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=YnONLDo6PWI
Slovenian version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7A20SM3OI
Spanish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZzvK5uLu7F0
Swedish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=CP-HOe1OdvI
Turkish version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ocqCy0qEkA

Esperanto, Hindi, Japanese, Persian, Thai, Vietnamese are in progress (help is needed).


Download Link (avi, 1.44GB; send me a private message if the file is not available):
http://bit.ly/GaryFile
http://bit.ly/speechfile

Send me a message if you want to translate this speech to another language - IT"S EASIER THAN YOU THINK !!

Gary is a national lecturer on veganism and does over 200 talks each year.
Book Gary Yourofsky at your school:
http://adaptt.org

Please subscribe to Gary's YouTube channel:
http://youtube.com/user/adapttvideo

Read how effective this speech is:
http://gary-tv.com/en/

[WhiteFeather]

This is powerful! IMO....The messenger nails it shut. People speak of the flouride in our water, the vaccines we take, the GMO foods we eat, the chemtrails sprayed in our skys, but fail to realize how the meat, fish and chicken we consume from todays massive factory farming may be far worse than the above mentioned toxins. When animals live in a stressful environment, so does their meat. And were ingesting their stress. Indeed The Pharmaceutical companies prosper from meat lovers. And most importantly.......I think Its time to reconsider, that animals are directly connected to us.

Great video here, have a gander. Warning! Disturbing content. User discretion is advised!

Http://Www.meatvideo.com

Great find OP. Wanishi : )

It Seems I whacked the proverbial Wasp 's nest with this post on Animal Slaughter.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43000-Animal-Slaughter-A-Time-For-Change

[WhiteFeather]

~what if eating meat equals LOWERING your vibrations to a level where you can not be inspired by higher consciousness, higher intelligence, intuitions that can save you, blocking your true potential, maybe even preventing you to ascend to an higher plane of existence, what if PART of our emotions are polluted because of eating meat, what if real benevolent aliens do not want to be close to meat eaters but lower aliens do (lol) that would be the ULTIMATE Karma! ... As you sow so shall you Reap!

I remember Alex Collier stating something from The Andromedans. Terrans have a tremendous Auric Stench. Must be from the dead animal flesh we Terrans ingest.

[Carmody]

My personal experience with this is that being vegan is a necessary step.

Anything else is an internal lie you tell yourself. (anything to put off actually doing the right thing, today -now.......... self block, after self lie, after self block, after self lie ......ad nauseam)

It's that thing I told myself when i was 13, looking at history.

If not now, then when?

If not you, then who?

[The Arthen]

Vegans often assume that meat eaters are "animal dominators", with that "I own you" kind of attitude, that they are "cruel" and "couldn't possibly be enlightened".

Yes, most of us are aware of how animals go through an insane stress while being slaughtered. Yes, I too feel there's no such thing as "humane or inhumane" slaughtering. It's just slaughtering.

And yet, whenever I see an animal kill another animal for their meat - I go,
"Aite. I guess."

I won't claim to have the moral high ground to think carnivores such as sharks, dolphins, lions, whales and tigers are necessarily "less enlightened" than herbivores or weeds that suffocate the growth of plants.

Because in THAT sense - I find we're all INDEED "brothers and sisters".
I understand why they do so. I understand why a leopard chases a deer, instead of digging its teeth into plant sap.

It's funny how CERTAIN vegans preach about being connected with our animal brothers and sisters - but yet from the way they talk about it all, it's clear that they're coming more from a MESSIAH point of view, rather than a genuine "connection", ain't it?

But hey, that's just my un-enlightened ego talkin, right?
:)

[realitycorrodes]

Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

ALBERT EINSTEIN, quoted in Sinfully Vegan

[Maunagarjana]

~what if eating meat equals LOWERING your vibrations to a level where you can not be inspired by higher consciousness, higher intelligence, intuitions that can save you, blocking your true potential, maybe even preventing you to ascend to an higher plane of existence, what if PART of our emotions are polluted because of eating meat, what if real benevolent aliens do not want to be close to meat eaters but lower aliens do (lol) that would be the ULTIMATE Karma! ... As you sow so shall you Reap!

I don't buy it because when I look at the times I have been most in tune in my life, I was eating meat. I've had periods of amazing creativity and spiritual insight and some very profound visionary and metaphysical experiences, all while eating meat. What you are saying I feel is just some dogma. What you say about meat you could say that about anything, like swearing, masturbation, alcohol, pot....fill in the blank. There are incredible psychics and spiritual practitioners of all kinds that eat meat. Some people, because of how their body is, has to eat meat or they don't feel well. Don't be surprised if you ever meet any ETs to find that some really amazing ones eat at least some meat.

When you look at some of the most well known spiritual masters in the history of the Earth, like Jesus and Buddha....from what we know of them, they ate meat. What if the souls of livestock incarnated on Earth with the intention of serving as food for us to help in our evolution? If so, wouldn't it suffice to just have gratitude? What if you are needlessly demonizing meat eaters to fuel your personal idealistic superiority complex? Anyway, I think there are much better arguments for not eating meat, especially environmental ones.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24462791.jpg

[WhiteFeather]

~what if eating meat equals LOWERING your vibrations to a level where you can not be inspired by higher consciousness, higher intelligence, intuitions that can save you, blocking your true potential, maybe even preventing you to ascend to an higher plane of existence, what if PART of our emotions are polluted because of eating meat, what if real benevolent aliens do not want to be close to meat eaters but lower aliens do (lol) that would be the ULTIMATE Karma! ... As you sow so shall you Reap!

I remember Alex Collier stating something from The Andromedans. Terrans have a tremendous Auric Stench. Must be from the dead animal flesh we Terrans ingest.

And to add further, Alex stated that The A's....Andromedan's are fruitetarians. They are a highly evolved species.
So I guess highly evolved species don't consume one another. They eat the fruit ,without destroying the (tree) its life source...if you will!

[Maia Gabrial]

It's funny. I've always judged people on how they treat animals and children. So, I wouldn't blame aliens for doing the same....

[Maia Gabrial]

I don't buy it because when I look at the times I have been most in tune in my life, I was eating meat. I've had periods of amazing creativity and spiritual insight and some very profound visionary and metaphysical experiences, all while eating meat. What you are saying I feel is just some dogma. What you say about meat you could say that about anything, like swearing, masturbation, alcohol, pot....fill in the blank. There are incredible psychics and spiritual practitioners of all kinds that eat meat. Some people, because of how their body is, has to eat meat or they don't feel well. Don't be surprised if you ever meet any ETs to find that some really amazing ones eat at least some meat.

Did you know that meat makes our bodies STINK? Not even perfume and showers can't get rid of the stench of blood from us.... I've been told by aliens themselves....

But the point about eating meat is that it lowers our vibrations....

[Daughter of Time]

On this planet, humans and animals suffer similar faiths in similar ratios. Some humans on this planet have everything they could possibly desire, pretty much the same as some precious pets whose owners treat them a million times better than I and many humans have ever been treated.

Then, on this planet, we have millions of humans who are literally starving, others are tortured, others are abducted and forced into slavery, etc., which is equal to the animals grown on commercial farms whose treatment is nothing short of satanic. Organically grown cattle raised on large meadows where they are allowed to feed, roam and play as they wish, enjoy a good life even if they end up providing milk, meat and hide in the end. Since everthing must die in the end, the occasional indulgence in organically grown meat is not such a horrible thing if your body really craves it. Vegetarianism should come naturally, organically, and not forced upon the body until the body is ready to accept it and thrive on it. Commercially grown meat, on the other hand, should be avoided like the war.

Would evil ETs stop messing with us if we were to stop eating meat? I doubt it!

Do benevolent ETs judge us for eating meat? Maybe - to a degree. But if they are that benevolent then they would forgive us and try to help us raise our vibrations so that cruelty towards animals and towards one another would stop. If you are benevolent, then you realize that there's been much misguidance and manipulation at work and you forgive. You don't judge. Something went wrong along the way of our evolution. Something must have gone terribly wrong when we started to eat meat. Maybe it was a result of the ice age when vegetation disappeared. I don't know!

If you're a highly evolved being you don't start punching someone because you see them punching someone else. You teach them. You don't punish them.

If your intentions are evil, then you take advantage of an evil situation and make it work for your own selfish purposes. That's what I feel evil ETs are doing with us while benevolent ETs don't seem to be intervening much in any way.

[Sebastion]

To be perfectly honest, I really couldn't care less what aliens think. They live on their planet and we live on the earth. I didn't ask them to come here nor do I give a tinker's damn what their opinion is. We collectively have the smarts to help ourselves and it's just a matter of applying the knowledge collectively.

[ExomatrixTV]

~until Sebastion you become a slave to lower-vibrational Aliens you attract (maybe abducted for all kinds of experiments + getting tracer implants + you are consumed NOT because of your "flesh" but rather your lower vibrations becomes THEIR FOOD (energy vampires?) ... and HOW do you gonna defend yourself against that if you already DEPLETED yourself by cutting of from your original potential you suppose to use/have in the first place?


To be perfectly honest, I really couldn't care less what aliens think. They live on their planet and we live on the earth. I didn't ask them to come here nor do I give a tinker's damn what their opinion is. We collectively have the smarts to help ourselves and it's just a matter of applying the knowledge collectively.

[Sebastion]

To answer your question, I have never been run over by an 18 wheel truck because I don't play in the street.....nor do I play around with lower vibration entities.......




~until Sebastion you become a slave to lower-vibrational Aliens you attract (maybe abducted for all kinds of experiments + getting tracer implants + you are consumed NOT because of your "flesh" but rather your lower vibrations becomes THEIR FOOD (energy vampires?) ... and HOW do you gonna defend yourself against that if you already DEPLETED yourself by cutting of from your original potential you suppose to use/have in the first place?


To be perfectly honest, I really couldn't care less what aliens think. They live on their planet and we live on the earth. I didn't ask them to come here nor do I give a tinker's damn what their opinion is. We collectively have the smarts to help ourselves and it's just a matter of applying the knowledge collectively.

[Rocky_Shorz]

~what if eating meat equals LOWERING your vibrations to a level where you can not be inspired by higher consciousness, higher intelligence, intuitions that can save you, blocking your true potential, maybe even preventing you to ascend to an higher plane of existence, what if PART of our emotions are polluted because of eating meat, what if real benevolent aliens do not want to be close to meat eaters but lower aliens do (lol) that would be the ULTIMATE Karma! ... As you sow so shall you Reap!

all I need to tell everyone is I'm a meat eater...

doesn't affect capabilities and ETs aren't worried about us because of what we eat...

just how we shoot anything we want to look closer at...


that freaks em out...

[ExomatrixTV]

Dear, Rocky_Shorz (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?25-Rocky_Shorz)

it DOES, but you are not aware of it because you do not accessing subtle higher vibrations, only lower ones and thus you perceive a fraction of what you suppose to sense, thus you may well attract aliens, et's that are "comfortable" you eating meat, it can still be "amazing" & "spiritual" but you may have NO clue what you are missing as do not the lower aliens (they all can be "nice" but so was Hitler to his dog) so feeling the "nice vibes" of aliens is no guarantee that you dealing with your true purpose !

[Carmody]

Vegans often assume that meat eaters are "animal dominators", with that "I own you" kind of attitude, that they are "cruel" and "couldn't possibly be enlightened".

Yes, most of us are aware of how animals go through an insane stress while being slaughtered. Yes, I too feel there's no such thing as "humane or inhumane" slaughtering. It's just slaughtering.

And yet, whenever I see an animal kill another animal for their meat - I go,
"Aite. I guess."

I won't claim to have the moral high ground to think carnivores such as sharks, dolphins, lions, whales and tigers are necessarily "less enlightened" than herbivores or weeds that suffocate the growth of plants.

Because in THAT sense - I find we're all INDEED "brothers and sisters".
I understand why they do so. I understand why a leopard chases a deer, instead of digging its teeth into plant sap.

It's funny how CERTAIN vegans preach about being connected with our animal brothers and sisters - but yet from the way they talk about it all, it's clear that they're coming more from a MESSIAH point of view, rather than a genuine "connection", ain't it?

But hey, that's just my un-enlightened ego talkin, right?
:)

But hey, that's just my un-enlightened ego talkin, right?

Yes.

Exactly that.

[WhiteFeather]

A Must Watch on A Sunday Afternoon! Get Your Buttered Popcorn and Compassion Ready. A good Bookmarking...if you will. "It is said that if we had to kill our own meat we'd all be vegetarians".
Viewer Discretion Is Advised if you Are A Carnivore. Change We Must! And A Time to End Animal Slaughtering. Simply Because,,,,, We Are One With Everything.

Much Thanks to our Avalon Member Tane Muhata. Wanishi Bro.

EARTHLINGS is the single most powerful and informative documentary about society's tragic and unforgivable use of nonhuman animals, narrated by Joaquin Phoenix with soundtrack by Moby. Directed by Shaun Monson, this multi-award winning film by Nation Earth is a must-see for anyone who cares about nonhuman animals or wishes to make the world a better place.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys&feature=player_embedded&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fprojectavalon.net%2Fforum4%2Fsho wthread.php%3F43000-Animal-Slaughter-A-Time-For-Change%2Fpage4

[Flash]

If Aliiens analyse us for anything, the analysis will be short....

Our behaviors in general border the state of pure animalistic components and very few otherwise in my opinion.

[Fred Steeves]

Isn't it annoying...When people try to convince you that Jesus saves, or that you should quit smoking, or quit drinking, or quit eating meat, or quit owning a gun, or quit driving your SUV, or quit thinking you have any spiritual maturity, or quit thinking you know anything, or quit...

Cheers,http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif
Fred

[bluestflame]

dolphins eat meat and are credited with being pretty evolved , so do whales

would have thought it was what's in your heart , not what's in your belly

[CD7]

What if THEY are analyzed by THEM in how they treat humans?

[Spiral]

"It is said that if we had to kill our own meat we'd all be vegetarians". Change We Must! And A Time to End Animal Slaughtering. Simply Because,,,,, We Are One With Everything.

All the men I know hunt wild boar, which they eat, and most hunters hunt to be closer to nature.

Its a totally different experience to prepare & eat something you have shot yourself in the wild, or a trout you have wrestled from a moutain river, its an intimate thing, yes there is blood & guts, but there is respect, its as far removed from intensively reared prepackaged supermarket industrial hormone riddled "meat" as you can get.

How many animals would be left if they weren't reared for food ?, farmers don't keep livestock as pets.





I have to say someting about this alien vegitarian abduction nonsense, the vast majority of abductees are born into a programme, it doesn't matter one jot what they eat or don't eat, whether they smoke, drink, are gay/straight communists or republican.

These are long running multi generational programmes, some of it in conjunction with elements of the NSA, being a vegan/ vegitarian is no more protection than wearing a cross around your neck, these are not some vague astral entities but very real physical beings with very real physical craft

What they are doing and why we can only guess at, as to whether they follow some code of ethics or morals is also very hard to pin down, they certainly have NO concept of cruelty as wrong, thats one thing thats a certainty.

[NancyV]

The only "lower" vibration I'm seeing here is those who are exhibiting self righteousness and superiority. Having been a total vegetarian for 7 years who happily wallowed in self righteousness and superiority myself, and then going back to meat eating, I know for a fact that it made NO difference whatsoever in my ability to attain the level of merging with Source. NO beings in any dimensions out of the body and in other dimensions give a flying f**k about humans eating meat. When you leave your body the "stink" of meat does not accompany you. The biggest stink that accompanies one is the vibration of self righteousness and know-it-all-ism. Hopefully one will immediately learn to laugh at their human folly as I did.

I agree with Sebastion in that I could care less what any ET thinks about humans. ET's are absolutely not more evolved than humans. We have the ability to leave our bodies, travel through all dimensions and merge with the Source. All beings with souls in the Creation are EQUAL, whether they eat meat or are a Saint. Diet means NOTHING unless you believe it does. A "pure" body does not equal a "pure" soul. Physical food has nothing to do with your soul nor does it affect it in any way.

Heck, I was so silly I even bought into being CELIBATE for a number of years...as if having sex will keep you from leaving your body. What a frigging joke. But I bought into the teachings of the guru and did the whole trip...even to the point of being a total fruitarian. Guess what? The gurus are wrong! You don't have to be celibate and a vegetarian and say a certain mantra and suck the guru's dick in order to reach enlightenment! Yes, many gurus have sex with the young women followers. Of course it's only because they are being honored and blessed! LOL...fortunately or unfortunately I was not accorded that honor, but I knew several women who were so blessed.

Well, I got to do the self righteous vegetarian trip and anyone else is welcome to go through that stage too. I'm just thankful that I am no longer the SAME self righteous A-hole I was back then. Now I'm a DIFFERENT kind of self righteous A-hole. And this self righteous A-hole has no problem with beings on any level of any dimension up to and including the Source. Because you and I ARE Source. Anything we do is Source doing it. Anything we eat is Source eating it. Beyond that, anything we do and anything we eat is only a part of this illusion.

[donk]

Very few people think about the conscious decisions they make, to the point they are barely "conscious" decisions.

If you are given the information that what you are eating is toxic, not just with the chemical additives and poisons from the processing, but in the way the food source (animal) and it's habitat is treated, only then can you get into the morality of it.

Most people think meat comes from grocery store, and think no further. Unless they are consciously denying information that they are given, then I don't think you can judge the karmic impact. But if you are given information that resonates to you as truth, that eating the flesh of other beings--when it is not out of necessity/survival, as is the case with most of us, rationalizing an answer to "meat is poison for your soul" is the same (to me) as throwing the accusation out there.

I appreciate the information that people feel important share "They were told (or believe) that eating meat is harmful to you, here's why...." , and not sure whether I agree (food for thought!)...but throwing out hypothetical situations or your favorite "more evolved" animal example or whatever seems a defensive justification for something maybe you're not completely comfortable with?

Most animals don't have the capacity that we do to BLAME and DENY, that may be our biggest difference, and perhaps we should be judged accordingly, if some other being felt the need to do so.

I haven't gotten to watch the video yet, but my first thought (and forgive me if this was already mentioned, i intend to read thread more carefully later) was...what if we were analyzed by how we treat our own species? That's bad enough, forget our treatment of what most of us think as "below" us.

I just hope that anyone "analyzing" us has more sense than us, and recognizes that while most are just as easily "domesticated" (aka ENSLAVED) as animals, not all of us refuse to take responsibility for ourselves (and only our own self).

If they are looking at us a whole, I couldn't argue if they came to the conclusion that must be "dealt with".

[Peace of Mind]

IMO, if aliens were observing us they would much rather do it with a 10,000 foot pole. If they have the intelligence to travel here…I’m sure they can see what we’re doing /not doing and they should have enough sense to keep a safe distance.

When watching the progress and tendencies of humans…I can’t imagine them overlooking our blatant denial and how we are unconsciously the greatest contributors to our very own problems. They’re probably looking at us in shame, bewilderment, wondering how and why we choose to exist this way. If aliens do exist, I can’t blame them for their shyness and unwillingness to make their presence known. What reason would they have in doing so? How do they benefit by risking themselves to be around the unpredictable, misguided human? Whom just so happens to develop a high tolerance for violence and destruction of everything they come to know.

Aliens just don’t seem like a good thing/idea/event after you factor in everything. I can only see benevolent E.T.’s assisting species that clearly displays examples of helping themselves.

As an Example: I walked by plenty of ant hills in my life but I only took the time to stop and show great appreciation (and some assistance) when I see them working together for a common cause, it’s beauty in motion. When I don’t see this, I see chaos, it’s confusing to me, uninteresting because they are all over the place and it’s hard to get a handle on what they want.…and as the observer I start to lose that curiosity and soon find myself going on by my business. I may think/pretend to know what they want but if there is no unison my assessment may be incorrect, therefore potentially creating another problem for them.

Besides, I don’t want the responsibility for saving/helping them... especially when I have more pressing issues to deal with. It may be an easy task for me at first, but later they (ants) may become dependent of me simply because of that menial task I so effortlessly took care of for them.... now making me the babysitter, the pacifier.

So to eliminate any future hang-ups…I’ll no longer do for others what they can do for themselves. I may offer some insight, maybe even remove an obstacle in their path. But the lessons,feelings of achievement is for them to experience so they can grow from it.

We (anyone) can have whatever we want…we just have to really want it. Action has always spoken louder than words!! And this is precisely what the aliens may be looking for…

Peace

[realitycorrodes]

Cognitive Dissonance

Is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.

E.g. Animal rights activists, eating meat or wearing fur.

Dissonance can also lead to

seeking information from biased sources
denial of contradictory evidence
and many other ego defense mechanisms

-----------------------------------------------------------

What puts me in awe is some people on this thread seem to have such cognitive dissonance!

I am left not knowing what to do?

One cannot communicate with a mind actively working to keep itself closed - my personal feeling is there is some kind of rancid fear rotting such peoples brains away?

And I dislike giving good people bad news!

Rather than love,
than money,
than fame,
give me truth!
Henry David Thoreau

[Student_Energy_Healer]

Wow! There is a lot of misanthropic talk in this forum!

I eat meat, and although I'm not a big fan on HOW my meat is killed, I still love my meat.

It doesn't make a difference what you eat or even what you do in order to gain favor in the sight of some "god" or "alien" whether consciously or unconsciously (like what we seem to be doing here). What ultimately matters is more fully understanding who we truly are.

Tigers kill and eat meat and in the most "inhuman" ways might I add. So do wolves and bears, etc.

There are genuine psychics, energy healers and mediums in the world who smoke 60 packs a day, eat all manner of meat and are absolute "b%*!@%*s to their friends, family and clients, but their abilites don't change if they eat "less meat" or "smoked less" or had the attitude of Mother Teresa.

Blessings to all,

Maxine

[Sirius White]

This idea crossed my mind the moment my multi-dimensional thinking came up.

I realized karma was fractal, and holographic. Meaning, that our energy is tied all across the way, in an as above so below kind of way. So long as we exploited those below us, and ourselves- there would be energies above, attracted to the energy we have projected.

If we were, to instead radiate a respect for animals and ourselves, as well as one another we would have a greater connection to inner knowledge and more than likely, a little harder to deceive. That's why people like you and me on this forum question everything.

The Aliens who look at us that way also know the way we treat our planet, ourselves, and animals- so they have little sympathy. In act, they kind of justify themselves. It's no accident beings come into our realm that may look at us the way we look at a lab rat. It is easy for them to take us out of our habitat (with agreement of our King Mice), do what they need to do, and put us back.

But human beings are too valuable to just allow them to fall into their same fate. Just as there are fighters for animals here, there are fighters out there who know in a way, we are innocent and ignorant- and are trying to help us.

Remember......gotta take into account everything. Human DNA is also very interesting and diverse, and the biological wealth on this planet. So simply eliminating us is foolish. They instead choose to exploit, and in some cases direct the direction in which we evolve.

[The Truth Is In There]

The only "lower" vibration I'm seeing here is those who are exhibiting self righteousness and superiority. Having been a total vegetarian for 7 years who happily wallowed in self righteousness and superiority myself, and then going back to meat eating, I know for a fact that it made NO difference whatsoever in my ability to attain the level of merging with Source. NO beings in any dimensions out of the body and in other dimensions give a flying f**k about humans eating meat. When you leave your body the "stink" of meat does not accompany you. The biggest stink that accompanies one is the vibration of self righteousness and know-it-all-ism. Hopefully one will immediately learn to laugh at their human folly as I did.

I agree with Sebastion in that I could care less what any ET thinks about humans. ET's are absolutely not more evolved than humans. We have the ability to leave our bodies, travel through all dimensions and merge with the Source. All beings with souls in the Creation are EQUAL, whether they eat meat or are a Saint. Diet means NOTHING unless you believe it does. A "pure" body does not equal a "pure" soul. Physical food has nothing to do with your soul nor does it affect it in any way.

Heck, I was so silly I even bought into being CELIBATE for a number of years...as if having sex will keep you from leaving your body. What a frigging joke. But I bought into the teachings of the guru and did the whole trip...even to the point of being a total fruitarian. Guess what? The gurus are wrong! You don't have to be celibate and a vegetarian and say a certain mantra and suck the guru's dick in order to reach enlightenment! Yes, many gurus have sex with the young women followers. Of course it's only because they are being honored and blessed! LOL...fortunately or unfortunately I was not accorded that honor, but I knew several women who were so blessed.

Well, I got to do the self righteous vegetarian trip and anyone else is welcome to go through that stage too. I'm just thankful that I am no longer the SAME self righteous A-hole I was back then. Now I'm a DIFFERENT kind of self righteous A-hole. And this self righteous A-hole has no problem with beings on any level of any dimension up to and including the Source. Because you and I ARE Source. Anything we do is Source doing it. Anything we eat is Source eating it. Beyond that, anything we do and anything we eat is only a part of this illusion.

perfect truth! nothing more needs to be said.

[bluestflame]

bless it and give thanks , honor it , give it a good life

the way animals are misused needs to change

quality of life , quality of vibration

[Agape]

A Must Watch on A Sunday Afternoon! Get Your Buttered Popcorn and Compassion Ready. A good Bookmarking...if you will. "It is said that if we had to kill our own meat we'd all be vegetarians".
Viewer Discretion Is Advised if you Are A Carnivore. Change We Must! And A Time to End Animal Slaughtering. Simply Because,,,,, We Are One With Everything.

Much Thanks to our Avalon Member Tane Muhata. Wanishi Bro.

EARTHLINGS is the single most powerful and informative documentary about society's tragic and unforgivable use of nonhuman animals, narrated by Joaquin Phoenix with soundtrack by Moby. Directed by Shaun Monson, this multi-award winning film by Nation Earth is a must-see for anyone who cares about nonhuman animals or wishes to make the world a better place.





It's so sad . I can't bear watching this even . It seems that we've got so little time to change something here for better ..



:cry:

[meeradas]

dolphins eat meat and are credited with being pretty evolved , so do whales

Long as they don't develop greed for profit and start 'trading' ...


I can't bear watching this even :cry:

ditto

[realitycorrodes]

Illustrating how humans are behaving cruelly to innocent beings (animals) is not misanthropic talk. It is talk designed to enlighten such humans so they can behave more compassionately and as such is done as love to see such humans improve in their behavior.

This is ironically a perfect example of dissonance.

Avoiding paying for the slaughter of another being (animals) is not about gaining favor with some human made "god" or "alien".

Talk about missing the point??? Cognitive Dissonance again

Its about letting another being live who does not need to be slaughtered - this is known as "compassion".

Why would one wish to be compassionate?
One wishes to be compassionate, so that when other(s) (beings or nature herself) who are in a position to be compassionate towards us, may be inspired by our compassion and continue through with such compassion towards us.

When one is compassionate towards others...it is actually about being compassionate towards oneself - there is a slightly bigger picture at play here - if only one could expand their awareness to see how it is all connected. Killing others that do not need to be killed in order for one to enjoy the taste of blood in one's mouth is like killing oneself. This somehow has to be experienced for oneself....I guess?? One can only point the way?

Being compassionate is a way of being harmonic! And in certain ways sustainable!
Of course one can leave their body without being compassionate and pretend they have merged with "The Source" - whatever that means - as lets be honest...no-one can prove or disprove such delusional statements - such egotism leads to delusions of grandeur and the making of statements that wrongly conclude (at least at the physical level - which is the level we deal with every day) that being compassionate in the physical does not matter. It matters to us!!! Or some of us it seems?

Personally I would rather be a compassionate human first and foremost than become a psychic or an energy worker if it was at the expense of losing my compassion towards other living beings (animals).

Wanting such attributes above being compassionate is about wanting "power" or "fame" both of which are based in fear. Fear being the lowest vibration of all IMHO>

What ultimately matters is more fully understanding who we truly are.

One is very far away from understanding themselves when they have no compassion for other living beings (animals).

Tigers kill and eat meat and in the most "inhuman" ways might I add. So do wolves and bears, etc.

This is were the cognitive dissonance seeks biased or illogical information to support the "UN-compassionate" behavior.

Just because someone else is behaving badly who does not have the faculties to reason/or create a more compassionate way of living does not mean that humans must imitate their behavior like "mindless sheep"?

There are genuine psychics, energy healers and mediums in the world who smoke 60 packs a day, eat all manner of meat and are absolute "b%*!@%*s to their friends, family and clients, but their abilites don't change if they eat "less meat" or "smoked less" or had the attitude of Mother Teresa.

The topic is not about being

psychic or
an energy healer

one can be these things with or without slaughtering or paying to have other beings slaughtered

pretending it is, is a distraction technique due to cognitive dissonance in order to blur the original point of the topic, as it is obvious that the original point is correct, then one has to include other (irrelevant)points to the original point in the hope that such irrelevant points may give the altered subject matter the illusion of being incorrect - this is all done to avoid the glaring truth. To know oneself would be to know about such behavior.

There are many behaviors that make one compassionate.

Mother Teresa I am told was a compassionate lady, so perhaps was Gandhi.

How much more compassionate would she have been if she did not slaughter other beings (animals) or pay others to slaughter animals - especially when it is obvious that humans do not need to slaughter animals to live!!!

But it is not about Mother Teresa or Gandhi - it is about us!!! Time to take responsibility - we are all waiting and rooting for us!

Let us drop the cognitive dissonance and denial and expand our compassion to other beings who perhaps we did not realize were sentient beings very similar to ourselves.

Lets face it - one would not want to be slaughtered in order that someone else could become psychic by eating one, (it is kind of like having double standards?)

or be slaughtered in order that someone else could become an energy healer

or be butchered in order that someone else could somehow curry favor with a man made political agenda called "God".

And finally, do we really think we would be personally happy with being butchered just because someone told us it was going to be done in a "halal" way (ritually significant manner to a bunch of "brainwashed" religious fanatics)???? Like that really makes a difference. Come on??

One day when we awaken to our-self we also will see how ludicrous our denial and cognitive dissonance really was.

P.S. It really does not matter if someone who is arguing for what is the truth is succumbing to "righteous indignation" that is their problem - it does not mean the truth that they are presenting is in anyway incorrect. That is called character assassination, a technique commonly used by our governments to control our minds.

As much as I intuitively suspect I am not a fan of Winston Churchill I tend to agree with his statement below:

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill

[Sebastion]

I have to say your personal attack on another member of this forum by accusing them of "pretending" to have merged with The Source, making "delusional statements" and that "such egotism has lead to delusions of grandeur" is way over the top and totally uncalled for.

Your argument lost all credibility at that point as far as I'm concerned!





Illustrating how humans are behaving cruelly to innocent beings (animals) is not misanthropic talk. It is talk designed to enlighten such humans so they can behave more compassionately and as such is done as love to see such humans improve in their behavior.

This is ironically a perfect example of dissonance.

Avoiding paying for the slaughter of another being (animals) is not about gaining favor with some human made "god" or "alien".

Talk about missing the point??? Cognitive Dissonance again

Its about letting another being live who does not need to be slaughtered - this is known as "compassion".

Why would one wish to be compassionate?
One wishes to be compassionate, so that when other(s) (beings or nature herself) who are in a position to be compassionate towards us, may be inspired by our compassion and continue through with such compassion towards us.

When one is compassionate towards others...it is actually about being compassionate towards oneself - there is a slightly bigger picture at play here - if only one could expand their awareness to see how it is all connected. Killing others that do not need to be killed in order for one to enjoy the taste of blood in one's mouth is like killing oneself. This somehow has to be experienced for oneself....I guess?? One can only point the way?

Being compassionate is a way of being harmonic! And in certain ways sustainable!
Of course one can leave their body without being compassionate and pretend they have merged with "The Source" - whatever that means - as lets be honest...no-one can prove or disprove such delusional statements - such egotism leads to delusions of grandeur and the making of statements that wrongly conclude (at least at the physical level - which is the level we deal with every day) that being compassionate in the physical does not matter. It matters to us!!! Or some of us it seems?

Personally I would rather be a compassionate human first and foremost than become a psychic or an energy worker if it was at the expense of losing my compassion towards other living beings (animals).

Wanting such attributes above being compassionate is about wanting "power" or "fame" both of which are based in fear. Fear being the lowest vibration of all IMHO>

What ultimately matters is more fully understanding who we truly are.

One is very far away from understanding themselves when they have no compassion for other living beings (animals).

Tigers kill and eat meat and in the most "inhuman" ways might I add. So do wolves and bears, etc.

This is were the cognitive dissonance seeks biased or illogical information to support the "UN-compassionate" behavior.

Just because someone else is behaving badly who does not have the faculties to reason/or create a more compassionate way of living does not mean that humans must imitate their behavior like "mindless sheep"?

There are genuine psychics, energy healers and mediums in the world who smoke 60 packs a day, eat all manner of meat and are absolute "b%*!@%*s to their friends, family and clients, but their abilites don't change if they eat "less meat" or "smoked less" or had the attitude of Mother Teresa.

The topic is not about being

psychic or
an energy healer

one can be these things with or without slaughtering or paying to have other beings slaughtered

pretending it is, is a distraction technique due to cognitive dissonance in order to blur the original point of the topic, as it is obvious that the original point is correct, then one has to include other (irrelevant)points to the original point in the hope that such irrelevant points may give the altered subject matter the illusion of being incorrect - this is all done to avoid the glaring truth. To know oneself would be to know about such behavior.

There are many behaviors that make one compassionate.

Mother Teresa I am told was a compassionate lady, so perhaps was Gandhi.

How much more compassionate would she have been if she did not slaughter other beings (animals) or pay others to slaughter animals - especially when it is obvious that humans do not need to slaughter animals to live!!!

But it is not about Mother Teresa or Gandhi - it is about us!!! Time to take responsibility - we are all waiting and rooting for us!

Let us drop the cognitive dissonance and denial and expand our compassion to other beings who perhaps we did not realize were sentient beings very similar to ourselves.

Lets face it - one would not want to be slaughtered in order that someone else could become psychic by eating one, (it is kind of like having double standards?)

or be slaughtered in order that someone else could become an energy healer

or be butchered in order that someone else could somehow curry favor with a man made political agenda called "God".

And finally, do we really think we would be personally happy with being butchered just because someone told us it was going to be done in a "halal" way (ritually significant manner to a bunch of "brainwashed" religious fanatics)???? Like that really makes a difference. Come on??

One day when we awaken to our-self we also will see how ludicrous our denial and cognitive dissonance really was.

P.S. It really does not matter if someone who is arguing for what is the truth is succumbing to "righteous indignation" that is their problem - it does not mean the truth that they are presenting is in anyway incorrect. That is called character assassination, a technique commonly used by our governments to control our minds.

As much as I intuitively suspect I am not a fan of Winston Churchill I tend to agree with his statement below:

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill

[wynderer]

Hi John --

if one is at a certain distance above planet Earth at this time [& for far-too-long millennia in the past] -- one can hear an endless cry/scream of pain & torment arising all the time -- right now -- from billions of Animals & many millions of Humans [who are also Animals]

a sphere of darkness encircling this planet -- not especially attractive to higher-dimensional beings

i am an abductee, a milab, & a contactee

i try to tell Humans that everything the ETs -- the Reptilians, Greys, Tall Whites etc -- are reported to be doing to Humans -- the Humans are doing the same to Animals, either directly, or thru the willfull denial at which, as i see it, Earth Humans excel

i think i am understanding that on this 3D level of existence -- that big 3D Universe seen thru Hubbel etc -- it seems that beings who live in this highly-polarized 3D universe -- it seems that compassion & empathy are the exception , rather than the norm

i have been a vegan for well over 40 yrs -- as soon as i learned this was possible -- & i have been a peaceful Animal Rights activist for about as long -- i sometimes think : To find those among us who are truly of Higher Consciousness , look for those who speak & fight for Momma Earth, for the Animals, & for the Children

the terrible cruelties to non-Human Animals on this planet are practiced/accepted by Humans of all cultures/races/creeds -- massive collective karma [ best to disconnect from the collective around this time, should one want a better chance of survival at a higher-consciousness level]

Humans are thus conditioned to live on a planet resonating w/the vibrations of pain, suffering, cruelty -- makes it easier for them to kill each other also

xn9qWnGbZtw

Peace & Freedom for All Beings, wyn


gNOuSZC2EXI
source video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNOuSZC2EXI&lc)

Published on Aug 4, 2012 by women4truth (http://www.youtube.com/user/women4truth)

(http://www.youtube.com/user/women4truth)
~DISCLAIMER: Gary Yourofsky did NOT ask that question ... I did :) ~credit video: http://youtube.com/TheAnimalHolocaust

Gary Yourofsky's entire inspirational speech on animal rights and veganism held at Georgia Tech in summer of 2010. Listen to this amazing speaker who will blow away the myths, fill your mind with interesting facts, and help you make ethical choices for a healthy heart and soul. His charismatic and straightforward style is one of a kind - a must-see for anyone who cares about nonhuman animals or wishes to make the world a better place.

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[Kristin]

This entire thread is an argument between Vegans/vegetarians and Omnivores. Who is more advanced and who is not. Does it matter... etc. Exactly what one would expect with this very intense topic. Both sides of the fence are tossing out daggers to the other. Both sides have a good basis for why they are right and reasons why they are both wrong. It's not just one post or another here that is an issue IMO.

Are vegetarians potentially more advanced? Well, Bob Dean likes a steak, a cigar, and whiskey and I would say he is rather advanced. Gandhi was a vegetarian and I would call him advanced. This list can go on either way.

Are their people who are vegetarians who are "evil?" Sure. Why not? That is the same for any number of meat eaters as well.

Is it wrong to butcher animals? Well, many have grown up on farms and butcher their own food; plant and animal alike. Most would do it again and have very strong feelings of joy and sorrow with regards to taking care of the animals. Plants have feelings too by the way. Is there a difference?

Perhaps the difference is in having reverence for what we consume. I happen to thank all my food for being there to nurture me. I thank my water too. That is a spirit also. I am thankful for the air that I breathe and for the ground beneath my feet. Everything is sacred, everything.

This thread will not come up with an answer either way. However I feel it is important to look at our choices and do the best we can with regards to how we see not only the food we eat, but how we see and treat each other. Is it with respect? If you have an opinion do you respectfully state that opinion and create a space for a conversation?

From the Heart,
Wormhole

[13th Warrior]

I think it's sad that in every corner of the Earth food serves as a means of bringing people together...but, not at Avalon...

[13th Warrior]

"If ifs and buts where candy and nuts; we would all have a Merry Christmas"

[wynderer]

as i see it, it's not about eating dead animals or not -- it's about having compassion/empathy for weaker beings, at one's mercy [this includes a Bear vs a gun], or not having it

discussions re 'to eat meat or not' to me are 3D spiritual-consciousness level discussions

a 5D spiritual-consciousness discussion, imo, would revolve more around, 'How can we live in peace & harmony w/all sentient beings?'

in 5D dimension, beings are not killed to feed other beings

[ExomatrixTV]

@realitycorrodes your contribution resonates all over ... and is very powerful :) Thank you! :cantina:

[realitycorrodes]

Thank you ExomatrixTV, for trying to counteract the "deliberate misrepresentation of my words" by Sebastion. This being was attempting to discredit me so as to persuade others not to read my heartfelt words - a form of character assassination...which ironically was mentioned in my comment. Personally I am shocked (again and again) by such "underhand" and illogical (denial) by such beings in order to defend their sense of feeling like a good person. As paying people to slaughter animals definitely threatens this concept of feeling like a good person that these beings have about themselves. Ironically in contrast I neither feel good nor bad..."I merely am" perhaps therein lies the difference in perceptive. I feel profound sadness that this experience is so cruel. The buddha IMHO (if such a being was real) was correct IMHO when the being stated that the root cause of such "suffering" is indeed "ignorance". I have said my peace in regard to the unnecessary slaughter of other beings. I was not going to comment on Sebastion's comment as such comments illustrate the mind of such a being is closed and not open to logical communication - only pain and suffering will be able to open such a being's mind - hence I guess the reason for such a mind to be experiencing this earth experience?? I do not have the answers to such cruelty and suffering...I can only speculate. But as you came forward to try and counteract Sebastion's intentions I felt honored and felt I should try one last time to explain myself!?

Finally, to try and dissuade beings from having such discussions because it appears to cause such "heated debate" only causes the problems to go unsolved. One must take courage and have the discussions IMHO even though people will behave badly during such discussions - otherwise nothing will change!

Wishing profound peace and absolute freedom to all sentient beings (animals too) now and always!

I have copied and pasted Sebastion's comment below and encourage people to read my comments above regardless of Sebastion's attempt at dissuading them from doing so - and I ask them to critically think for themselves if I have been unfair and if I have (which I am open to having been) is such unfairness justified at curtailing my freedom of speech?

Whoever we are....never let another being try and do our thinking for us! Expose ourselves to all knowledge and with an informed mind bravely make our own decisions!

What Sebastion is trying to do below is attempting to get others to not read my comments (censorship of free speech) based on ideas about having offended someone who feels they have more authority on such matters because they claim they have merged with the source or similar unprovable and irrelevant details about their opinion. Such appeals to authority over logic is another form of mind control. Religious organizations are always using "divine authority" to justify there misdeeds - knowing that no one can prove one way or another whether such an authority is genuine.

I say we are capable of deciding for ourselves what is the best way to proceed - it is called a "conscience"!! No mythical Gods required.



I have to say your personal attack on another member of this forum by accusing them of "pretending" to have merged with The Source, making "delusional statements" and that "such egotism has lead to delusions of grandeur" is way over the top and totally uncalled for.

Your argument lost all credibility at that point as far as I'm concerned!

[The Truth Is In There]

as i see it, it's not about eating dead animals or not -- it's about having compassion/empathy for weaker beings, at one's mercy [this includes a Bear vs a gun], or not having it

discussions re 'to eat meat or not' to me are 3D spiritual-consciousness level discussions

a 5D spiritual-consciousness discussion, imo, would revolve more around, 'How can we live in peace & harmony w/all sentient beings?'

in 5D dimension, beings are not killed to feed other beings

one can have compassion for one's food and live in harmony with animals one is going to kill for food. people have done this for thousands of years.

in the 5th dimension we're not likely to require food like in the 3rd so i wouldn't throw the two into the same pot. besides, we're 3rd dimensional now so 5th dimensional eating habits seem quite irrelevant to me at this point.

btw, that the animal is dead doesn't mean that the food as such is dead. as long as it's raw the meat is still alive, full of enzymes and very healthy & nutritious.

[ExomatrixTV]

~maybe plants WANT to be part of us but animals do not want to die and treated badly ... if you treat plants with respect you can even ASK plants if it is okay to eat them ... not kidding you ... study "The Secret Life of Plants" by Cleve Backster (many very powerful experiments YOU can duplicate ... instead of sitting comfortable on a chair being a side-critic!

Maybe it is an honor for a Plant to become a part of you ... better than to die without "ascension" from their point of view.

Actually, The parts of a plant that we are supposed to eat are simply that parts that Ripen & fall off or the "Fruit".

As to the other aspects of Pruning a plant by selective & intelligent eating of the parts not considered "Fruit", it actually helps the plant produce MORE. It's Symbiotic.

After The fall of mankind from obedience where "Fruit" was the diet, Mankind was given permission to eat living food as the animals ate: Green Herbs & vegetables (Like Garlic, Onions, Carrots) for "Healing"

~imagine he is an Alien giving a lecture to other Aliens about how they treat Humans ... in the same context & level of abuse what we do to animals ... what would you think about that "Alien" lecturing other "Aliens" would you be at least happy that 1 Alien is speaking on your behalf? What if Earth is a Giant Breeding Zoo or Giant Laboratory ... would that be " far fetched"? Scary thoughts, I certainly hope it is NOT true and that there is a bigger overlooked picture!

cheers,
John

[realitycorrodes]

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
Mahatma Ghandi

Slaughtering them...Enough Said?

[Ry.com]

I thought I knew quite alot abot aliens/ufos .but ivenever heard that before could be sumthing in it

[wynderer]

as i see it, it's not about eating dead animals or not -- it's about having compassion/empathy for weaker beings, at one's mercy [this includes a Bear vs a gun], or not having it

discussions re 'to eat meat or not' to me are 3D spiritual-consciousness level discussions

a 5D spiritual-consciousness discussion, imo, would revolve more around, 'How can we live in peace & harmony w/all sentient beings?'

in 5D dimension, beings are not killed to feed other beings

one can have compassion for one's food and live in harmony with animals one is going to kill for food. people have done this for thousands of years.

in the 5th dimension we're not likely to require food like in the 3rd so i wouldn't throw the two into the same pot. besides, we're 3rd dimensional now so 5th dimensional eating habits seem quite irrelevant to me at this point.

btw, that the animal is dead doesn't mean that the food as such is dead. as long as it's raw the meat is still alive, full of enzymes and very healthy & nutritious.

re yr last paragraph : imo, spoken like a true participant in the world-wide satanic blood ritual ensnaring your souls -- Observer describes this very well in Houman's thread on the archons [Horus-Ra etc]

[Houman]

This is from Cathy O Brien (former MK Ultra presidential sex slave)

http://ctrl.org/essay2/SLMC.html
By 1987, I couldn't think to know that good people even existed any more. I'd long since lost that hope. But I'd noticed for years that people who abuse their children often abuse animals. Seems to go hand in-hand somehow.

In 1988, Mark Phillips rescued my daughter Kelly and me from mind control victimization. There we were, under the gun of the CIA, he's in a big hurry to scoop us out of that environment and take us to safety. And yet he took time to rescue our animals, because our animals were being tortured in order to control us further. If we didn't follow orders we lost a pet. He rescued our horses, our cows. our guineas. our chickens, our dogs. He rescued them all and took them all to safety. This had an enormous impact on Kelly and I both because we sensed that if the animals could trust him, we could trust him.

Mark took us to the safety and serenity of Alaska. I couldn't think to know that Mark Phillips was any different except for the fact that he didn't talk about mass genocide mind control . He didn't talk about New World Order. He talked about how he had rescued his pet raccoons from certain death. And I saw how his animals loved him.

[The Truth Is In There]

as i see it, it's not about eating dead animals or not -- it's about having compassion/empathy for weaker beings, at one's mercy [this includes a Bear vs a gun], or not having it

discussions re 'to eat meat or not' to me are 3D spiritual-consciousness level discussions

a 5D spiritual-consciousness discussion, imo, would revolve more around, 'How can we live in peace & harmony w/all sentient beings?'

in 5D dimension, beings are not killed to feed other beings

one can have compassion for one's food and live in harmony with animals one is going to kill for food. people have done this for thousands of years.

in the 5th dimension we're not likely to require food like in the 3rd so i wouldn't throw the two into the same pot. besides, we're 3rd dimensional now so 5th dimensional eating habits seem quite irrelevant to me at this point.

btw, that the animal is dead doesn't mean that the food as such is dead. as long as it's raw the meat is still alive, full of enzymes and very healthy & nutritious.

re yr last paragraph : imo, spoken like a true participant in the world-wide satanic blood ritual ensnaring your souls -- Observer describes this very well in Houman's thread on the archons [Horus-Ra etc]

seen from this angle blood rituals have been going on here on earth since the first human being killed and ate an animal. but wait...animals do that too so they must be in on the blood ritual conspiracy, too. what a horrible thought...

[sarcasm off]

my statement was a simple observation. it is a scientific fact that raw meat, just like raw plants, is full of enzymes and thus alive. ask some of the inuit who live on nothing but land animals and fish and are among the healthiest people on the planet.

as regards the whole archons stuff, it's only real for those who believe in it and need it for their experiences here on earth. the archons that harass people are of their own making.

last but not least, there's nothing negative about blood rituals. like anything else in creation, they just are. what you do is judging the creator based on what you learned as a human. hardly an enlightened position imo, so maybe you should leave the moral high ground.

[wynderer]

part of the MK Ultra procedure for breaking down the child to install alters is forcing them to witness &/or take part in the torture & killing of animals -- some break at that point; others don't -- this actually says something good about the Human spirit, that gifted & sensitive children need to have innate compassion/empathy shocked out of them

all the animals who were sharing my home at the time of the abduction by the Reptilian -- all died cruel deaths at the hands of individual Humans -- i no longer take in animals, because of what can/most likely will happen to them

i don't think this is off-topic, John -- as i see it, you can bet that many ETs and EDs are observing how Humans are treating their Animal brothers & sisters -- some use the rampant cruelty/indifference to their advantage




This is from Cathy O Brien (former MK Ultra presidential sex slave)

http://ctrl.org/essay2/SLMC.html
By 1987, I couldn't think to know that good people even existed any more. I'd long since lost that hope. But I'd noticed for years that people who abuse their children often abuse animals. Seems to go hand in-hand somehow.

In 1988, Mark Phillips rescued my daughter Kelly and me from mind control victimization. There we were, under the gun of the CIA, he's in a big hurry to scoop us out of that environment and take us to safety. And yet he took time to rescue our animals, because our animals were being tortured in order to control us further. If we didn't follow orders we lost a pet. He rescued our horses, our cows. our guineas. our chickens, our dogs. He rescued them all and took them all to safety. This had an enormous impact on Kelly and I both because we sensed that if the animals could trust him, we could trust him.

Mark took us to the safety and serenity of Alaska. I couldn't think to know that Mark Phillips was any different except for the fact that he didn't talk about mass genocide mind control . He didn't talk about New World Order. He talked about how he had rescued his pet raccoons from certain death. And I saw how his animals loved him.

[ExomatrixTV]

~very powerful Houman !! :behindsofa:

[realitycorrodes]

Scientists Finally Conclude Nonhuman Animals Are Conscious Beings

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201208/scientists-finally-conclude-nonhuman-animals-are-conscious-beings

Didn't we already know this? Yes we did
Published on August 10, 2012 by Marc Bekoff, Ph.D. in Animal Emotions

Every now and again I receive an email message I ignore after reading the subject line. I know I'm not alone in following this rule of thumb, but today I broke down and opened a message the subject line of which read "Scientists Declare: Nonhuman Animals Are Conscious". I honestly thought it was a joke, likely from one of my favorite newspapers, The Onion. However, it wasn't.

My colleague Michael Mountain published a summary of a recent meeting held in Cambridge, England at which "Science leaders have reached a critical consensus: Humans are not the only conscious beings; other animals, specifically mammals and birds, are indeed conscious, too." At this gathering, called The Francis Crick Memorial Conference, a number of scientists presented evidence that led to this self-obvious conclusion. It's difficult to believe that those who have shared their homes with companion animals didn't already know this. And, of course, many renowned and award-winning field researchers had reached the same conclusion years ago (see also).

Michael Mountain was as incredulous as I and many others about something we already knew. It's interesting to note that of the 15 notables who spoke at this conference only one has actually done studies of wild animals. It would have been nice to hear from researchers who have conducted long-term studies of wild animals, including great apes, other nonhuman primates, social carnivores, cetaceans, rodents, and birds, for example, to add to the database. Be that as it may, I applaud their not so surprising conclusion and now I hope it will be used to protect animals from being treated abusively and inhumanely.

Some might say we didn't really know that other animals were conscious but this is an incredibly naive view given what we know about the neurobiology and cognitive and emotional lives of other animals. Indeed, it was appeals to these very data that led to the conclusions of this group of scientists. But did we really need a group of internationally recognized scientists to tell us that the data are really okay? Yes and no, but let's thank them for doing this.

I agree with Michael Mountain that "It’s a really important statement that will be used as evidence by those who are pushing for scientists to develop a more humane relationship with animals. It’s harder, for example, to justify experiments on nonhumans when you know that they are conscious beings and not just biological machines. Some of the conclusions reached in this declaration are the product of scientists who, to this day, still conduct experiments on animals in captivity, including dolphins, who are among the most intelligent species on Earth. Their own declaration will now be used as evidence that it’s time to stop using these animals in captivity and start finding new ways of making a living."

The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness

The scientists went as far as to write up what's called The Cambridge Decalration on Consciousness that basically declares that this prominent international group of scientists agree that "Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates." They could also have included fish, for whom the evidence supporting sentience and consciousness is also compelling (see also).

So, what are we going to do with what we know (and have known)?

It's fair to ask what are these scientists and others going to do now that they agree that consciousness is widespread in the animal kingdom. We know, for example, that mice, rats, and chickens display empathy but this knowledge hasn't been factored into the Federal Animal Welfare Act in the United States.

I'm frankly astounded that these data and many other findings about animal cognition and animal emotions have been ignored by those who decide on regulations about the use and abuse of other animals. However, the Treaty of Lisbon, passed by member states of the European Union that went into force on December 1, 2009, recognizes that "In formulating and implementing the Union's agriculture, fisheries, transport, internal market, research and technological development and space policies, the Union and the Member States shall, since animals are sentient beings, pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals, while respecting the legislative or administrative provisions and customs of the Member States relating in particular to religious rites, cultural traditions and regional heritage."

Let's applaud The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness and The Treaty of Lisbon and work hard to get animals the protection from invasive research and other forms of abuse, in many cases horrifically inhumane, they deserve.

Some recent essays I've written point out that there still are some people who feel comfortable killing individuals who they call "unneeded" or "surplus" animals and at least one animal welfarist, Oxford University's Marian Dawkins, continued as of a few months ago to claim we still don't know if other animals are conscious and that we should "remain skeptical and agnostic [about consciousness] ... Militantly agnostic if necessary, because this keeps alive the possibility that a large number of species have some sort of conscious experiences ... For all we know, many animals, not just the clever ones and not just the overtly emotional ones, also have conscious experiences."

Perhaps what I call "Dawkins' Dangerous Idea" will now finally be shelved given the conclusions of the Cambridge gathering. I frankly don't see how anyone who has worked closely with any of a wide array of animals or who lives with a companion animal(s) could remain uncertain and agnostic about whether they are conscious.

It's said that repetition is boring conversation but there's now a wealth of scientific data that makes skepticism, and surely agnosticism, to be anti-science and harmful to animals. Now, at last, the prestigious Cambridge group shows this to be so. Bravo for them! So, let's all work together to use this information to stop the abuse of millions upon millions of conscious animals in the name of science, education, food, amusement and entertainment, and clothing. We really owe it to them to use what we know on their behalf and to factor compassion and empathy into our treatment of these amazing beings.