A mass shooting at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin

[Referee]

Another mass Shooting. in the US.

nSf95LeOnzo

[000]

From Dr. Greer's Twitter (https://twitter.com/DrStevenGreer):


Sirius (http://www.sirius.neverendinglight.com/) filmmaker Arm Kaleka's father shot at Sikh Temple. He is on scene now. Please pray for his family.

Update on Twitter:


Let us remember his father and the others who died as they journey into the worlds of eternal Light.

Arm Kaleka's father didn't survive :(

[ViralSpiral]

Hmmmmmm

Another reason to implement stricter gun control? Xenophobic "set-up"?

Greer's tweet and mention of Sirius certainly piqued my curiosity....


Two interviews:


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Dr. Steven Greer is joined by Emmy award winning documentary filmmaker, Amardeep Kaleka. They discuss the next level of Disclosure that will happen with the documentary they are working on. The first part will include witness testimony that will establish that we have been visited by ET civilizations. The 2nd part will connect the dots showing how the ET issue relates to the New Energy issue and the development of new civilization on planet Earth. The final section of the film will show the contact the CE-5 teams led by Dr. Greer have been experiencing (CE-5 = Close Encounters of the 5th kind).


6SsHCK6Ly_Q

[Dr. Greer is not able to attend this broadcast, so it is being hosted by Dr. Jan Bravo, who is part of Dr. Greer's CSETI organization. Dr. Bravo has occasionally hosted and been a guest on this show.]

Emmy Award Winning film maker Amardeep Kaleka joins us again with an update on the progress of the Documentary.

Find out the inner workings of getting a world changing documentary off the ground. Find out how we are getting new witnesses, new evidence and what is involved on the artistic side to make it fast paced and gripping.

[Hip Hipnotist]

When it rains -- it pours.

[Carmody]

Note the attack on family, in the same way as the Libor scandal regarding James Holmes' father's involvement in the Libor scandal.

They go after family, and connections.....in order to create fear and division in those who might try to work against their agenda.

in this way, the pertinent points don't make it to the press and several different types of agendas are fulfilled at the same time.


Once again, you can always see the hidden hand if you know what you are looking for..and that is a situation where multiple agendas are moved forward, within the scope of a single move.

[CdnSirian]

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2012/08/wisconsin-sikh-shooting.html

"Wisconsin Sikh Shooting: Seven Dead




Six people and a gunman were killed Sunday at a Sikh temple in suburban Milwaukee, according to Bradley Wentlandt, the police chief in nearby Greenfield.

Earlier information:

One or more shooters at a Milwaukee Sikh temple gunned down several people on Sunday, August 5, 2012. The first report came in at about 10:25 am local time. Some eyewitnesses inside the Temple have said it was a coordinated attack by several Caucasian people, with gas canisters being thrown, as Sikh worshippers were being shot.

A religious leader from New Delphi, India, was scheduled to speak at this Temple, and Indians being interviewed by the media are saying this person may have been the target of assassins.

One witness said a white male with a heavy build, bald head and wearing a sleeveless T-shirt was the shooter.

All information is incomplete and perhaps incorrect.


A Sikh temple in a suburban Milwaukee (at Oak Creek) is the active scene of a shooting with an unknown number of people injured.

Oak Creek Police Department dispatcher Stephanie Uljanec says the shooting took place about 10:30 a.m. Sunday morning at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, 7512 S. Howell Avenue, Oak Creek is south of Milwaukee along Lake Michigan.



"We did have a shooting," Uljanec said. "It's unknown how many victims there are." One report on CNN said upwards of 20 people have been injured. Another says four have been killed.

Uljanec said at 12:28 p.m. that they have not been notified of any fatalities.

"Officers are still on the scene," she said.

Sukhwindar Nagr, of Racine, says he called his brother-in-law's phone and a priest at the temple answers. Nagr says the priest told him that his brother-in-law had been shot, along with three priests. Nagr says the priest also said women and children were hiding in closets at the temple.

Uljanec said she did not know whether the shooting took place inside or outside the temple. She said she was called into work after it happened.

"Our office has not been asked to respond yet," Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's Office Investigator Jenni Penn said at 12:40 p.m.

"I haven't heard anything from an official," said Penn, who did not know anything about injuries at the temple.

There are more than a dozen ambulances parked outside the temple, and police have corralled media and a handful of bystanders to an area near the temple.

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel is reporting at least four people have been shot. Once again, there are reports of 20 people being hurt.

Police say an active shooter was engaged, and that shooter was brought down, after heavily injuring a police officer.

Other reports say a hostage situation continues inside, and there may be a second shooter.

A spokeswoman for Froedtert Hospital, the main trauma center in the Milwaukee area, has told CNN that two men have been taken there and the hospital is ready to receive more."We were told not to say anything," said an employee at a Classic Lanes, 7501 S. Howell Ave., near the temple. The worker did not want his name used.

Fran McLaughlin, spokeswoman for the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department, says a call came in at 10:26 a.m. She says officers are at the scene but she has no other information to report."


I've been following this blog after the Aurora event. Check out the recent posts on the right sidebar too.

Adding this later: http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2012/08/dark-knights-sikh-link.html

[Referee]

Here is more looks like it may have a hate crime, anti- government and 2nd Amendment angles attached to it.

-w_wKeTXd_0

UPDATE...................

Looks like one eye witness claimed four white men dressed in black were responsible for the shooting already contradicting the MSM story.

Here is PJW again.

EhKFHxbDq9U

[ghostrider]

another attempt to change the publics mind about the second amendment.

[CdnSirian]

OWZvTmg1rnc

A. Kaleka speaking

[Ellisa]

Do you really think that ghostrider-- or do you think that these incidents of mass murder may have something to do with the fact that every slightly aggrieved, or massively deranged, citizen can just amble down to the local supermart and buy enough weapons to obliterate a suburb singlehanded?

[Laurel]

I'm in shock and deeply saddened. I live about 20 minutes from Oak Creek, and stuff like this just doesn't happen there. It just doesn't make sense. I agree that there's something very suspicious about this shooting.

[VirgoSun79]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Wow, this is getting crazy. :twitch: I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone these days.

[ViralSpiral]

Hi there

already posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48182-A-mass-shooting-at-the-Sikh-Temple-in-Oak-Creek-Wisconsin)

[Huma]

Setting aside my disgust for what Dr. Greer has become since his 2001 press conference, apparently Mr. Kaleka's father died from the shooting, sad stuff indeed, and odd timing as well.

From Dr. Greer's Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrStevenGreer

Dr. Steven Greer ‏@DrStevenGreer
Let us remember his father and the others who died as they journey into the worlds of eternal Light. Dr. Greer

Dr. Steven Greer ‏@DrStevenGreer
http://Sirus.Neverendlight.com filmmaker Arm Kaleka's father was killed at the Sikh Temple. Our heartfelt sympathy and prayers go with him.

[ThePythonicCow]

Wow, this is getting crazy. :twitch: I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone these days.


already posted

Threads merged - thanks for noticing the duplicate post.

[CdnSirian]

Here is more looks like it may have a hate crime, anti- government and 2nd Amendment angles attached to it.

-w_wKeTXd_0

UPDATE...................

Looks like one eye witness claimed four white men dressed in black were responsible for the shooting already contradicting the MSM story.

Here is PJW again.

EhKFHxbDq9U

As predicted:

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2012/08/sikh-shooter-id.html for the whole post...

"The early reports were sketchy. But now we know what the Sikh temple shooter was. He allegedly was an Army veteran, a racist, a supremacist, and a murderer. He sported a 9/11 tattoo. He lived on Holmes Avenue. Considering that James Holmes is the alleged shooter in Aurora, that is the kind of coincidence even a scriptwriter would be told not to put into a movie.

We also know the who. Sources have identified the dead suspect as Wade Michael Page. Reportedly, he was formerly connected to the Fort Bragg Army base at Fayetteville, North Carolina.

In Oak Creek, Wisconsin, a Sikh temple committee member, Ven Boba Ri, told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that people inside the temple described the shooter as a white male in his 30s. Ri further reported to the Journal-Sentinel that the gunman walked up to a Sikh priest who was standing outside the temple and shot him. Then he went inside and started shooting.

The UK's Daily Mail reported, "The lone gunman, who was shot down outside the temple, was allegedly wearing tactical gear and was armed with a single handgun. He was described by witnesses as a white male in his thirties."

[Earth Angel]

would his former position as a psychological operations specialist perhaps mean he had some info about the Colorado shooting? ( he was originally from Colorado as well ) Perhaps he was making some noise about what he thinks went down there??
unfortunately after these stories come out and you have someone like James Holmes going from squeaky clean kid, top of the top of his class, never in trouble with the law then suddenly all kinds of stories about his mental state, treatment by doctors, not top of his class etc. start happening, I tend to not believe a lot of the stories that comes out after.

Also there was a new thread here regarding Timewave zero novelty on the Colorado shooting date, could this be the next event that was predicting http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48155-Timewave-zero-novelty-on-the-colorado-shooting-date-as-well-as-TODAY.

[Arrowwind]

Hmmm..... Sikhs have a strong military inclination hsitorically in India, although Sikhs here in the US have been very peaceful. I suspect they will be taking guns now to their meetings. In general I think Sikhs will be pushing to maintian second ammendment rights.

[Referee]

This was PM 'ed to me today. Nice work A Wondering Ponderer

Thought I would Share.

Satwant Singh Kaleka

Hello Referee,
I just saw your thread noting the tragic shooting of Sikh Temple President Satwant Singh Kaleka (father of Greer's collaborator Amardeep Kaleka.)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...reek-Wisconsin

I don't know if you'd find any of this background information of interest, but I just came across it.

I think he was also the brother-in-law of cabinet minister Surjit Singh Rakhra.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Punjab...e1-909009.aspx
More on Surjit Singh Rakhra:
http://www.dayandnightnews.com/2012/...mises-reforms/

A post at rumormillnews.com also linked an article that claims the 'lone-shooter' lived at Holmes Avenue, which is an eerie link to the cinema shooting that's also recently occurred.
http://greendale.patch.com/articles/...emple-shooting

CNN has an article stating "The first person to see a shooter was a 10-year-old child, Amardeep Kaleka," and the same article also says "Yet witnesses have described the shooter as a bald white man, standing about 6 feet tall, wearing black pants and a white T-shirt -- with a tattoo marking the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks..."
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us...hooting-scene/

If any of this does prove accurate and seem of interest feel free to post it. It is a deeply saddening story.

I pray good forces come to the aid of all the families involved.

Thank you for starting the thread.
AWP

[Melinda]

Hi Referee,
I'm not sure if those links work so I've posted them again below. It was truly upsetting when I heard the news yesterday and I didn't have time to cross-check or research much more. Those were the first links I found on what was being reported in addition to the witness accounts of multiple suspects.
My heart goes out to all the families and people affected by this.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Punjab/Chandigarh/Cabinet-minister-Surjit-Singh-Rakhra-s-brother-in-law-amongst-US-gurdwara-shooting-victims/SP-Article1-909009.aspx
http://www.dayandnightnews.com/2012/05/cabinet-minister-surjit-singh-rakhra-promises-reforms/
http://greendale.patch.com/articles/woman-says-her-son-is-landlord-of-gunman-in-temple-shooting
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting-scene/



This was PM 'ed to me today. Nice work A Wondering Ponderer

Thought I would Share.

Satwant Singh Kaleka

Hello Referee,
I just saw your thread noting the tragic shooting of Sikh Temple President Satwant Singh Kaleka (father of Greer's collaborator Amardeep Kaleka.)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...reek-Wisconsin

I don't know if you'd find any of this background information of interest, but I just came across it.

I think he was also the brother-in-law of cabinet minister Surjit Singh Rakhra.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Punjab...e1-909009.aspx
More on Surjit Singh Rakhra:
http://www.dayandnightnews.com/2012/...mises-reforms/

A post at rumormillnews.com also linked an article that claims the 'lone-shooter' lived at Holmes Avenue, which is an eerie link to the cinema shooting that's also recently occurred.
http://greendale.patch.com/articles/...emple-shooting

CNN has an article stating "The first person to see a shooter was a 10-year-old child, Amardeep Kaleka," and the same article also says "Yet witnesses have described the shooter as a bald white man, standing about 6 feet tall, wearing black pants and a white T-shirt -- with a tattoo marking the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks..."
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us...hooting-scene/

If any of this does prove accurate and seem of interest feel free to post it. It is a deeply saddening story.

I pray good forces come to the aid of all the families involved.

Thank you for starting the thread.
AWP

[TargeT]

Hmmm..... Sikhs have a strong military inclination hsitorically in India, although Sikhs here in the US have been very peaceful. I suspect they will be taking guns now to their meetings. In general I think Sikhs will be pushing to maintian second ammendment rights.

I did some peace keeping operations in Mongolia last year with a contingent of Sikhs; my impression of them was that they were the "special forces" of Hindu (though they are not Hindu) they have special garb they wear, and almost ALL of it is to "remind them how to kill Muslims" they carry LARGE "ceremonial" knives (sometimes referred to as swords) specifically so they are ready to kill Muslims if they find one.. its a religion that came from the constant Muslim - Hindu conflict (IIRC) and it surprises me that this guy didn't get stabbed about 500 times in that Sikh temple; perhaps it was "no knives day" there?
Of course these Sikh are probably very different than any you would find in the US, but the rellgion is very interesting either way.


Sikhism is the most simple and straightforward religion, but it is a tragedy that various vested interests have tried to misinterpret the philosophy of Sikhism. The Hindu elite have, since long, been trying to define Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism because, according to them, most of the Sikhs have/had their roots in Hindu families. The Indian regime too is bent upon labelling the Sikhs as a branch of Hinduism. Sikhs have not been granted independent identity in the Indian constitution.. Due to this the Sikh representatives had rejected and refused to give their assent to it.


The theological principles, the articles of faith, the way of life, rites and rituals etc of the Sikhs are altogether different from those of the Hindus but the Indian government has, still, denied the Sikhs their right to have a separate law of their own. The Hind law has been forced upon them against their will.


Sikhism was founded by Guru Nanak Sahib. Guru Nanak Sahib was born in a Hindu family but he never adopted Hindu religion. On the other hand he rejected Hinduism and its rituals. He refused to wear Janeo (a thread which is sacred to the Hindus). For a Hindu Janeo is obligatory (though most of the Hindus have forsaken it now). Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was born in a Quraishi family. He founded Islam and rejected the religion of the Quraishi Arabians. It will be wrong to call Islam as a branch of old Arabian religious belief. Moses, the founder of Judaism, was born in a family which worshipped idols. Moses rejected idol worship. Christ was born to Jewish parents. No one will define Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism. Similarly, Guru Nanak Sahib, though born to Hindu parents, founded a distinct religion. It is ignorance (or conspiracy) to call Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism. Guru Nanak Sahib had proclaimed in unequivocal words that the Sikhs are "neither Hindus nor Muslims" (na ham Hindu na Musalman). Before his death Guru Nanak Sahib appointed Guru Angad Sahib as his successor and merged his light in the light of Guru Angad Sahib. Guru Sahib fulfilled his mission in ten lives (Guru Nanak sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib). Guru Gobind Singh Sahib installed Guru Granth Sahib as Guru-Eternal of the Sikhs on October 6, 1708, thus granting the status of Guru to the Word.


Sikhism is an independent religion. It does not have roots in any other religion or ideology. Like Hinduism, it is not mere ritualistic way of life. It has no superiority of any special caste, class, country colour or gender. Sikhism does not consider this world as unreal; of course it is Maya (illusion). It advocates oneness of spiritual and temporal domains. In Sikhism the king is a spiritual humanitarian ruler. Sikhism teaches non-attachment for the worldly things. On the other hand, Hinduism is a conglomeration of paradoxical concepts and teachings.


Sikhism does have it origin in the Indian subcontinent but the Sikhs are not Hindus. Guru Nanak Sahib and his successors had clarified it in unequivocal words:


We are neither Hindus nor Muslims (p. 1136)

Muslims and Hindus have different paths (Bhai Gurdas)

[JRS]

[QUOTE=Carmody;533231]Note the attack on family, in the same way as the Libor scandal regarding James Holmes' father's involvement in the Libor scandal.

They go after family, and connections.....in order to create fear and division in those who might try to work against their agenda.

in this way, the pertinent points don't make it to the press and several different types of agendas are fulfilled at the same time.


Hey Carmody, Are you insinuating that this attack was not that of a deranged Arab hater with way too easy access to guns, but rather was a well planned operation designed with the purpose of preventing Arm Kaleka and Steven Greer from coming out with their planned movie "Sirius", and also planned to further the agenda to abrogate the US 2nd amendment and confiscate all privately held guns in the whole US? WOW!!!! Who is awake and aware on this forum? Time for some damage control! Come on Greer bashers! Let's start with "Nothing to see here-go watch the Olympics"

[ghostrider]

I saw the vid , the witness said four men dressed in dark clothing did this, not what the media is saying. I think it was on David Ickes website, but it did mention four individuals. yep check out the vid on David Ickes website.

[ghostrider]

Do you really think that ghostrider-- or do you think that these incidents of mass murder may have something to do with the fact that every slightly aggrieved, or massively deranged, citizen can just amble down to the local supermart and buy enough weapons to obliterate a suburb singlehanded?

someone like your suggesting could take a chainsaw and do as much damage, this is the CIA = problem reaction solution. they want gun control , that pesky second amendment. If they take guns away from law abiding citizens, tanks and the military will roll into your neighborhood to protect you from the boogyman and it's by by any little freedom you ever had. they need a reason to impliment marital law, what better way, than to use the military to go after those massively deranged citizens which with media soundbites could be anyone they pick.

[GlassSteagallfan]

Perfect timing too!

While thousands and thousands of Americans were champion-ing the American sucess of the landing of the Mars Science Labatory 'Curisority', a shooting takes place that diverts attention away from our accomplishment.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Note the attack on family, in the same way as the Libor scandal regarding James Holmes' father's involvement in the Libor scandal.

They go after family, and connections.....in order to create fear and division in those who might try to work against their agenda.

in this way, the pertinent points don't make it to the press and several different types of agendas are fulfilled at the same time.


Once again, you can always see the hidden hand if you know what you are looking for..and that is a situation where multiple agendas are moved forward, within the scope of a single move.

let me guess being in a band, his favorite video games was Guitar Hero and there is a Neurosky headset plugged into the console which is set up for online gaming...

[Rocky_Shorz]

I'm in shock and deeply saddened. I live about 20 minutes from Oak Creek, and stuff like this just doesn't happen there. It just doesn't make sense. I agree that there's something very suspicious about this shooting.

I'm sorry to hear you are so close to this, it really hurts when you see one of the safest places in the world invaded by a monster...

been there, so I do understand...

[Rocky_Shorz]

would his former position as a psychological operations specialist perhaps mean he had some info about the Colorado shooting? ( he was originally from Colorado as well ) Perhaps he was making some noise about what he thinks went down there??
unfortunately after these stories come out and you have someone like James Holmes going from squeaky clean kid, top of the top of his class, never in trouble with the law then suddenly all kinds of stories about his mental state, treatment by doctors, not top of his class etc. start happening, I tend to not believe a lot of the stories that comes out after.

Also there was a new thread here regarding Timewave zero novelty on the Colorado shooting date, could this be the next event that was predicting http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48155-Timewave-zero-novelty-on-the-colorado-shooting-date-as-well-as-TODAY.

another psych specialist? Holmes was PhD Neurology so now I'm sure he has access to the NeuroSky

[Moemers]

Devil's Advocate here - and I want to make that double clear, this is just a thought that popped into my head:

Steven Greer set this up.

Discuss?

[Maunagarjana]

Devil's Advocate here - and I want to make that double clear, this is just a thought that popped into my head:

Steven Greer set this up.

Discuss?

Maybe Arm Kaleka is the one behind it......nobody would see that coming.....him offing his own father to further his film career. It's just so crazy, it must be true.

peace
brian

[Moemers]

Devil's Advocate here - and I want to make that double clear, this is just a thought that popped into my head:

Steven Greer set this up.

Discuss?

Maybe Arm Kaleka is the one behind it......nobody would see that coming.....him offing his own father to further his film career. It's just so crazy, it must be true.

peace
brian

Deeper....

[Buck]

Wow, that's harsh.
Are you and Moemers trying to impress everyone with ability to emotionally disassociate yourselves from a traumatic event? Both of you seem very comfortable spit-balling theories around, comfortably ignoring the emotional and psychic trauma you are speculating about. Congratulations to you both, very MK Ultra of you. Oh, and speaking of MK, I just happened to notice Moemr- your own words regarding the origin of this new theory of yours -

"this is just a thought that popped into my head:"
You might want to look at that.

and Maunag- are you seriously suggesting this as a plausible theory? Either that or you are trying to be funny? Maybe so- I mean its ok to laugh at these people- after all, they are not really human anyway- right? Everyone knows these hollywood elites are devil worshipping baby eaters who wouldn't think twice about arranging to have their father and multiple innocent victims gunned down if it would generate some publicity. Yeah, that sounds plausible.

Certainly makes a whole lot more sense than a government coverup of an MK false flag operation bearing the same tell tales as many of the other lone shooter rampages.

Dare to allow yourself to feel something for the people who just suffered this tragedy. Pay attention to how easily you are seduced into demonizing your fellow man.

[Maunagarjana]

and Maunag- are you seriously suggesting this as a plausible theory? Either that or you are trying to be funny?

I was trying to be funny, but not by making light of the killings. Actually, I was making fun of Moemers suggestion that Greer might be behind the killings, which I find to be completely ludicrous. So I offered an even more ludicrous suggestion to highlight the absurdity of Moemer's suggestion about Greer. I thought that would be obvious, but apparently not.

[CdnSirian]

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2012/08/who-was-wade-michael-page.html This meticulous writer missed the "4 men in black" witness statement. Unfortunately he is now being meticulous perhaps in the wrong direction.

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2012/08/contagious-killer-copycats.html more on his usual theme.

Good stuff recently as well on the Colorado stuff. Down the right sidebar...

[Rocky_Shorz]

well the tragedy is terrible, but there is good that came out of this...

most American's never knew what Sikh's believe, one God is very non Hindu fighters of Muslims should even get a Republican's heart...

we're all evolving, living in complete peace, brings down everyone's defenses allowing for all to grow.

the day before my Birthday, one year before the Mayan Calendar and Federal Reserve control on America end, my friend was killed in a car crash...

the autopsy showed he died 3 hours before the crash...

it is no longer about fighting between believers...

there are sick and twisted monsters running this world from the shadows...

we at Avalon are here to turn on the lights...

[Arrowwind]

Hmmm..... Sikhs have a strong military inclination hsitorically in India, although Sikhs here in the US have been very peaceful. I suspect they will be taking guns now to their meetings. In general I think Sikhs will be pushing to maintian second ammendment rights.

I did some peace keeping operations in Mongolia last year with a contingent of Sikhs; my impression of them was that they were the "special forces" of Hindu (though they are not Hindu) they have special garb they wear, and almost ALL of it is to "remind them how to kill Muslims" they carry LARGE "ceremonial" knives (sometimes referred to as swords) specifically so they are ready to kill Muslims if they find one.. its a religion that came from the constant Muslim - Hindu conflict (IIRC) and it surprises me that this guy didn't get stabbed about 500 times in that Sikh temple; perhaps it was "no knives day" there?
Of course these Sikh are probably very different than any you would find in the US, but the rellgion is very interesting either way.


Sikhism is the most simple and straightforward religion, but it is a tragedy that various vested interests have tried to misinterpret the philosophy of Sikhism. The Hindu elite have, since long, been trying to define Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism because, according to them, most of the Sikhs have/had their roots in Hindu families. The Indian regime too is bent upon labelling the Sikhs as a branch of Hinduism. Sikhs have not been granted independent identity in the Indian constitution.. Due to this the Sikh representatives had rejected and refused to give their assent to it.


The theological principles, the articles of faith, the way of life, rites and rituals etc of the Sikhs are altogether different from those of the Hindus but the Indian government has, still, denied the Sikhs their right to have a separate law of their own. The Hind law has been forced upon them against their will.


Sikhism was founded by Guru Nanak Sahib. Guru Nanak Sahib was born in a Hindu family but he never adopted Hindu religion. On the other hand he rejected Hinduism and its rituals. He refused to wear Janeo (a thread which is sacred to the Hindus). For a Hindu Janeo is obligatory (though most of the Hindus have forsaken it now). Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was born in a Quraishi family. He founded Islam and rejected the religion of the Quraishi Arabians. It will be wrong to call Islam as a branch of old Arabian religious belief. Moses, the founder of Judaism, was born in a family which worshipped idols. Moses rejected idol worship. Christ was born to Jewish parents. No one will define Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism. Similarly, Guru Nanak Sahib, though born to Hindu parents, founded a distinct religion. It is ignorance (or conspiracy) to call Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism. Guru Nanak Sahib had proclaimed in unequivocal words that the Sikhs are "neither Hindus nor Muslims" (na ham Hindu na Musalman). Before his death Guru Nanak Sahib appointed Guru Angad Sahib as his successor and merged his light in the light of Guru Angad Sahib. Guru Sahib fulfilled his mission in ten lives (Guru Nanak sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib). Guru Gobind Singh Sahib installed Guru Granth Sahib as Guru-Eternal of the Sikhs on October 6, 1708, thus granting the status of Guru to the Word.


Sikhism is an independent religion. It does not have roots in any other religion or ideology. Like Hinduism, it is not mere ritualistic way of life. It has no superiority of any special caste, class, country colour or gender. Sikhism does not consider this world as unreal; of course it is Maya (illusion). It advocates oneness of spiritual and temporal domains. In Sikhism the king is a spiritual humanitarian ruler. Sikhism teaches non-attachment for the worldly things. On the other hand, Hinduism is a conglomeration of paradoxical concepts and teachings.


Sikhism does have it origin in the Indian subcontinent but the Sikhs are not Hindus. Guru Nanak Sahib and his successors had clarified it in unequivocal words:


We are neither Hindus nor Muslims (p. 1136)

Muslims and Hindus have different paths (Bhai Gurdas)



Well, probably the idea to kill Muslims by some Sikhs in certain areas of the world comes from being attacked over the years. Muslims and their jihad have proven over time to be very agressive in some regions. Sikhs traditionally will support first their own freedom to practice the religion they see fit, and secondly to defend the weak and they have done lots of defending of Hindus over the years, as well as outright fighting with them, especially early on. Guru Nanak promoted this this concept of defense of self and others. It really is a beautiful religion if you are the religion type. I use to live on a Sikh ashram at one time.
My name was Guru Tier Kaur ... translates to the Guru's Arrow Princess..

Oh, I would argue that most Chistians to feel that Christianity came out of Judiasm. They still use the Old Testiment and they teach much of it still, you know, Adam and Eve, in the beginning was the word, the whole moses and abraham thing, the parting of the red sea, the Jews in Egypt is still a huge teaching of Christianity, while little if any of Hindism is found in Sikhism... but still cultural similarites exist... the yoga, meditation. Yoga preceeded Hinduism I think... yet many Hindus do yoga and meditate... but in Sikhism there is only one god, in Hinduism, many.

Jia Guru Satnam

[Arrowwind]

someone like your suggesting could take a chainsaw and do as much damage, this is the CIA = problem reaction solution. they want gun control , that pesky second amendment. If they take guns away from law abiding citizens, tanks and the military will roll into your neighborhood to protect you from the boogyman and it's by by any little freedom you ever had..

Well, they haven't taken guns away yet, but still they are entering neighborhoods with swat teams armed to the hilt. Having guns makes no difference and they know that elsewise we wouldnt have them. We have moved beyond in military capability so a even machine guns for selfdefense makes littel difference. .. not when you have airborne missiles that targetn in with the use of drones... to locate you in a specific house, in a specific neighborhood, right down to the room you sleep in.

Congress just signed a bill to build, what was it? 3,000 drones to be used over American soil? A few hand guns or even machine guns means nothing, absolutley nothing in the hands of the public. They could make your neighborhood look like Bagdad in 2003, in just a couple of hours.

[Rocky_Shorz]

what type of weapons are these drones fitted for?

I understand cost of keeping a drone up is 1/1000 of what a helicopter is, so monitoring traffic, chases etc don't have to depend on Satellites on the other side of the clouds.

with 3 Million guns, the first drone strike in the US would mean there would never be another that left the ground...

We the People, take peace seriously...

[Buck]

and Maunag- are you seriously suggesting this as a plausible theory? Either that or you are trying to be funny?

I was trying to be funny, but not by making light of the killings. Actually, I was making fun of Moemers suggestion that Greer might be behind the killings, which I find to be completely ludicrous. So I offered an even more ludicrous suggestion to highlight the absurdity of Moemer's suggestion about Greer. I thought that would be obvious, but apparently not.

Thanks for responding to my barbed post with such candor.
As it happens I returned back to this thread tonight to offer my apologies to Avalon and to you two in particular. I had just posted on another thread earlier in the day (yesterday) about how important it is now more than ever for all us to take responsibility for our potential. But what I began to realize today, was my own post on here was a textbook example of hypocrisy in action.

How incredibly ironic. I was mortified. I tried to tell myself the urge to apologize and share this realization was not appropriate to bring my dirty laundry back to Avalon and distract this thread with my own minutia. Then I realized that part- that last part I just said, that was most definitely a lie. Well, well, - if it isn't my old friend ego, trying to keep it's own sneaky business out of the light.

And so here I am, me and my ego- which is most definitely squirming as I share a little outline of it's tactics at work;

I like to think of myself as very accepting of whatever reaction my emotional self needs to run through. This presented a dilemma, as my initial emotional reaction to your post was visceral, and very strong- and this reaction was most definitely NOT within what I had considered an acceptable range. In truth I was enraged, scared, sputtering for words, indignant, alarmed and agitated all at once- I mean, couldn't anyone here see that these words were the very seeds of ignorance that we are all watching grow to full expression in terrible violence and destruction? And here we are joking about it and showing each other how clever we are with our words. Well something had to be done - someone had to speak out. Someone who could say what needed to be said.

This truth is this kind of thing triggers something very primal for me- the experience(or the delusion- it's all bundled in this together) of being the one that senses what others do not- the terror of reliving something very old and very traumatic for me was activated. And thank God that didn't happen to me anymore, because I am so accepting now, not rigid and judgemental like I used to be when I was not as enlightened.

And so, as I posted and lectured everyone about Mk patterning and evidence of control triggers, I was at that very moment hostage to an unconscious trigger of my own. One minute I am driving the bus, singing Kumbaya on a sunny day, and the next minute I am trussed and blindfolded rolling around on the floor as my ego roars down main street with the lights and siren on, hunched over the wheel eyes hot on the train of the ever elusive horizon of impending doom.

That's how it works- one second, one millisecond of judgement, and you are in the weeds.

Apologies to all- from me, and my (slightly singed) ego :)

[Referee]

NPR now reports Security cameras were off that morning and the Shooter Shot himself............

LQ7DQnxyt0g

[TargeT]

NPR now reports Security cameras were off that morning and the Shooter Shot himself............



funny how security camera's never work in the public's interest... 9/11 had hundreds of security camera's that the footage was never released on, Colorado shooting (theater) where's the footage from those security cameras? and now THIS ?

sheesh......

[Earth Angel]

is it just my imagination or is this shooting in a mosque receiving a lot less publicity than the shooting in the theatre?? I don't watch news or read the papers, just going by the headlines featured on Yahoo .com and Yahoo .ca ........it seems to be a non event there........

[Referee]

NPR now reports Security cameras were off that morning and the Shooter Shot himself............



funny how security camera's never work in the public's interest... 9/11 had hundreds of security camera's that the footage was never released on, Colorado shooting (theater) where's the footage from those security cameras? and now THIS ?

sheesh......


The security cameras only work when it is in their best interest. What a bunch of BS!!

[music]

"See all human beings as equal" - Guru Gobind Singh

Sikhism is a fine, awareness based religion, and Sikhs range from the completely militant to the completely spiritual. The colour of the turban and of the under cloth tell the world exactly where on the spectrum of Sikhism the wearer lies. For example, a black turban and a white underclothe denote one who is militant but pure of spirit. In my experience, Sikh militism is defensive, the wearer of the black turban will have his head cut off before he allows another to remove his turban. The strength comes from the purity of self-defence, and the righteousness of one who is attack for their belief. Inner physical strength comes from eating food out of cast iron bowls only, inner strength from the drinking of the Kal Khalsa (sugared water) which the first guru gave to those who volunteered to "die for God". Within Sikhism is much awareness of the chakra use and attaing the state of higher consciousness (higher dimensionality).

[Ellisa]

A new shooting in Texas is being reported. 3 dead, including the shooter.

[ThePythonicCow]

A new shooting in Texas is being reported. 3 dead, including the shooter.

Here - Three killed at Texas university shooting (http://londonglossy.com/2012/08/three-killed-at-texas-university-shooting/):



A gunman and a police officer were among three people killed today in a shooting near a Texas university campus, police said.

A male civilian was also killed, while two other officers and a woman were injured in the shooting near Texas A&M University at College Station, said Bryan Police Department spokesman Jon Agnew.

Assistant College Station Police Chief Scott McCollum earlier identified the officer killed as Brazos County Constable Brian Bachmann.
Also here - Officer, gunman among 3 killed in Texas shootings (http://www2.turnto10.com/news/2012/aug/13/texas-m-shooter-campus-apprehended-ar-1135828/)

[TargeT]

A new shooting in Texas is being reported. 3 dead, including the shooter.

Here - Three killed at Texas university shooting (http://londonglossy.com/2012/08/three-killed-at-texas-university-shooting/):



A gunman and a police officer were among three people killed today in a shooting near a Texas university campus, police said.

A male civilian was also killed, while two other officers and a woman were injured in the shooting near Texas A&M University at College Station, said Bryan Police Department spokesman Jon Agnew.

Assistant College Station Police Chief Scott McCollum earlier identified the officer killed as Brazos County Constable Brian Bachmann.
Also here - Officer, gunman among 3 killed in Texas shootings (http://www2.turnto10.com/news/2012/aug/13/texas-m-shooter-campus-apprehended-ar-1135828/)


A university.... Why am I not surprised.... Another pool of victims predestined for abuse... Where else do these psycos go? Movie theaters that have a "no guns" policy, schools where the same is true, military bases that have the same true, etc etc etc....

Will this be a lesson to learn from or not... I sadly think not

[Conchis]

NPR now reports Security cameras were off that morning and the Shooter Shot himself............



funny how security camera's never work in the public's interest... 9/11 had hundreds of security camera's that the footage was never released on, Colorado shooting (theater) where's the footage from those security cameras? and now THIS ?

sheesh......

I'm just going to throw out .... the idea of "footage" is a concept like vinyl records. We used to have physical objects that held information, like film, but those days are long gone....now we have digital information that is "recorded" and transmitted via systems often connected from the camera to the digital storage via the internet or a system connected to the internet which means that you can never really be sure if the data, didn't exist, did exist but no longer exists, or exists, but just not where it was thought to be stored. This state of affairs leaves us all scratching our heads because we can never really be sure, even if we have a bias that suggests individually to us what the real state of affairs might be.

[sdv]

Texas University shooting: It seems that the shooting incident was sparked off by the police arriving at the mans' house to serve an eviction notice. The man in the house started shooting, the police started shooting and with all those bullets flying around people were killed and injured: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/14/us-usa-texas-shooting-idUSBRE87C0V220120814

A desperate man, feeling cornered and with weapons behaves irrationally, and ... very tragic.

[Leon]

To all those who want to BAN guns.

You think society will be a better place when all the legal guns have been removed? It won’t be, why? Because you’ve taken away the guns that are not used to commit crimes, sure this does happen but it’s not a reason to remove all the legal guns!
You have to understand that there is a responsibility attached to removing the legal guns. You have made yourself responsible for the loss of innocent victims of shootings. Why? Because these people can be stopped if people were allowed to have guns. Sure everyone will need some training to have this right.
You will be responsible for those lives lost because governments cannot be trusted with their guns!
Do you really want all this blood on your hands?
You think your helping society? Your not…
Every time there is a shooting somewhere the gun is blamed? How does this work?
When a person uses a car to commit a crime the person is blamed???
When a person uses an aircraft to commit a crime the person is blamed???
When a person commits a crime with any other weapon the person is blamed???
How does this work???

When will you anti gun people wake up and start supporting the effort to reduce shooting seriously instead of putting band aid solutions on the problem. It won’t go away this way. YOUR making gun crime worse than it needs to be.
Become responsible instead of acting like an idiot and just giving people a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside…
The world has become more dangerous because of the anti people…

[Leon]

This should help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo