Reconnecting with alienated friends and family

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Dear All:

Here's a topic which I have no personal experience of, but have in the past been associated with friends who have had deeply moving and life-changing experiences.

It's about when something goes badly wrong in a family, there's a [sometimes very long] period of disconnection, and then everything is healed again.

This experience recently happened to a friend of mine, and the love and healing that was released by a sincere, humble explanation of what had gone awry, accompanied by a heartfelt apology that was gratefully received, has transformed several generations of an entire family -- including elderly parents in the twilight of their long lives who had never, ever thought they would see the day.

An experience of my own (indirectly) was quite a while back, when I was leading and running personal development courses. I was talking with the group -- about a dozen young men and women -- about how many decisions are simple ones. Some things are easy to do.. and easy not to.

For example (I said): "When you're hungry, it's easy to go to the kitchen to find a cookie or a candy bar. It's also easy to find a piece of cheese or an apple."

You see, decisions that can ending up molding our lives are often a choice between two things that are easy.

I then gave the example of picking up the phone. "It's easy to think of a friend, look at the phone, and do nothing. It's also easy to pick it up, and dial 10 numbers on the keypad. Like this."

Then I mimed doing just that with my cellphone. It took maybe 15 seconds, and almost no effort.

A couple of minutes after that, with the conversation continuing, one of the group members, a young man in his mid-20s, quietly excused himself and got up to leave the room. I assumed that he'd gone to the bathroom.

But 10 minutes later, he had not returned. The group's conversation was still interesting and valuable, so I overlooked his absence.

20 minutes passed. Then 30.

After 35 minutes, he returned, looking a little spaced out. Several of the others enquired how he was, wondering if he'd been feeling ill.

He looked around, and took a deep breath.

"I've just phoned my father," he said. "I've not spoken to him for 13 years." And then he began to weep.

That set us all off. It was life-changing for him. And all because he made the choice between two things that were easy.

:)

[Billy]

My daughters partner had not spoken to his father or brothers since his parents divorced 15yrs ago. my daughter phoned all his family and invited them to join in on their sons 30th birthday last may. Mother with husband, father with wife and brothers with family all arrived in the west highlands.
Thanks to my daughter the family are reunited.

As Joe Cocker sings. It's time for the healing to begin

peace

[pilotsimone]

delete post

[Mulder]

But the problem is family members can die before before healing occurs. For example, my father died in the 1980s and my mother in the 2000s & no healing occurred. But now they've ascended, I hope past "grudges" no longer are a big part of their existance.

[truth4me]

My father ,who I respect and still love, have had a falling out over my grandson and his great grandson. My grandson is bi-racial and to me it makes no difference in anyone's color. My grandson is a wonderful child full of fun and energy galore yet my father still clings to his 1960's past that has put a wedge between us. I will not put up with racism in any form yet, I stll respect and love my father . I have tried to "reach" my father but it won't work. So the best way for me is to stay away from my him. My grandson just like us all are members of the HUMAN race. Yet,I still need to make peace somehow with my father for he is getting up in years. I really don't know what to do.:confused:

[SKAWF]

i know that what you said is true bill.

but sometimes... and as a metaphor

rather than trying to fix something that is broken, or never worked in the first place....
it .... sometimes.... is easier to throw a 6 and start again.

[Bill Ryan]

But the problem is family members can die before before healing occurs. For example, my father died in the 1980s and my mother in the 2000s & no healing occurred. But now they've ascended, I hope past "grudges" no longer are a big part of their existance.

Two points -- not intending to be contradictory!

1) Do try to heal the relationship before the other person dies. Even if you don't do it for yourself, do it for them.

The only exception, I'd suggest, if this would genuinely injure yourself (E.g. if the other person is seriously toxic. Sometimes, of course, this is the case.)

2) If you miss that boat (and there are many circumstances that can cause that to happen) -- it's not too late.

There's a wide range of techniques for healing relationships with people who are no longer here -- even extending into distant, past lives from which the incidents still echo and resonate here and now. (This is part of what is sometimes known as karma, although I dislike and rarely use the term.)


Healing the pain stemming from my family of origin caused a profound shift in me.

This thread is super timely because the bulk of this just happened to me in July.


Pilotsimone... Wow.

[etheric underground]

We hold on to silly things that mean nothing in the end, like they picked on me or I wasnt as loved as my brother and sister
or why should I call they can call me (ego)...
Bill you are so right, dont wait until it is too late. This life is short and those little things really dont mean that much.
LOVE YOUR FAMILY for the good things ...LOVE YOUR FAMILY MORE for the bad.
GOD BLESS YA SOCKS.

[bogeyman]

I have not spoke to my father for over two years now, and the rest of the family well, that is a long story. I have taken note of this thread and I will ponder and reflect on what it is saying. I think personally too much water has gone under the bridge, but as they say its never too late.

[seantimberwolf]

I wished i got too know my father.
He left when i was only a baby, and never tried to contact me.
My mother wont speak of him, and i have no clues.

My grandfather, he was my father figure, a strong man who taught me the importance of love and always smiled.

I guess what im saying is i couldnot agree with bill more, we should cherise the ones we love.

[WhiteFeather]

Got the tears going slightly from that story Bill. Thanks for sharing that.

Its never to late to forgive, Its never to late to say your sorry, Its never to late to let it go, Its never to late to say I love You, and just when you thought it was too late, you find Its never to late.

As i was growing up in my teenage rebelious years me and my Dad were constantly butting heads. We didnt get along with each other during those adolescent stages. When i turned 18 my Dad was dying in the hospital from cancer, but before he died i had the chance to finally tell him I Love You, he responded I Love You too son. He passed on the next day.

Its never too late.

[RunningDeer]

My father wasn’t a nice man, but in his later years, I saw how broken he was from arthritic pain and heart disease. In that instant, my heart opened and words just poured out. We were raised...his words, "Children are seen and not heard. Speak when spoken to." His favorite phrase to his five daughters of eight kids was, "Act like a woman think like a man." Here, let me say it for you..."Nuts, with a capital N."

I told my Dad that when I look at my life in a linear time line, much more good happened than bad. I am who I am in part because of all that he taught. That in many respects, he was ahead of his time in teaching things that only sons were privy, to. I pointed out the time spent cooking, and baking together, and how to be graceful in stature.

I told him that I loved him and forgave him. He choked a couple of times before his explanation came out. In a small voice he said, “Thank you. I was possessed back then.”

For a nano-second, I thought that was lame, but I realized that for him to admit anything counter to pride and strength was big medicine. It was just what I needed to move forward for myself. Our life contract was completed on that day.

A few years later, I was fortunate to be by his bedside when he crossed over. I saw with different eyes. Just before his passing, I understood that he was a warrior that signed up for a hard ride. My Dad honored his contract. He looked peaceful and innocent. A Beautiful Soul. The pain and wrinkles washed from his face in his last breaths. It was who he really was without the mask of this life. That was also the moment, I understood there’s no reason to fear death.

[Sierra]

I haven't written about this yet, but I did a between lives regression this last spring, and who but showed up entirely unexpectedly (in the healing room), my violent, (electroshocked in the Naval Air force during WWII), and suicided father.

He was nothing like he was on earth. For heaven's sake, he was wearing a white shirt, and black slacks. And bare feet. He was polite. He knocked first, and ASKED if he could come into the healing room. And he let me drive the conversation.

Sierra

[Fred Steeves]

Good idea for a thread Bill, this is the kind of hard life lesson that won't be learned in school, save maybe for a hint or two of it on the playground at recess.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Here's an uncomfortable question for an uncomfortable subject matter. I don't know about anyone else, but over time I get to feeling about some forum members like they are family, to varying degrees, and the forum being a sort of weird home away from home. That being said, does this common sense recipe for patching things up with family, also apply when close members on a tight knit forum have them a good public go at it, and become estranged?

I didn't speak much to my mom the last couple of years before she died, and looking back it was over really petty and stupid s**t, on both sides. But just as fate would have it, I gave her a hug and a kiss on the cheek, just hours before she died unexpectadly. I'm still very thankful that was our last interaction on this plane.

Cheers,
Fred

[bogeyman]

Yes that true Fred, I'm reluctant to say too much about family matters. But from my experience I just hope my family isn't the norm, but then what is normal? I could right a book about my family and experiences. But the past is the past..I hope.

[delfine]

I have no clear memory of how many times I´ve tried to reconnect to my parents. Long periods of no contact followed by attempts (from my part) to re-unite. The healing, soothing warmth of being accepted or communing with them never materialized. Every time we just fell back into the old, destructive roles. After a lifetime of frustrated longing and reaching out, I´ve finally
given up. And feel in a sense relieved by that.

My mother once told me that she got pregnant with me, because that day she didn´t care to use contraception. Wonderful to know that you´re a result of your mothers sloth, and not because she dearly wanted a child.(Irony). And through my childhood she never missed an opportunity to let me know what a burden I was on her, and that I had to compensate for this crime of being born. Furthermore the maternal affection and tender loving care that she was unable to give me, she on the other hand demanded from me.Her needs were the only needs that really counted. So from appr. 2 years old she engaged me in giving her massages, and from 4-5 years of age she used me as her personal advisor and confidant letting me in on all her marital problems. From the same age she started to introduce me to alcohol.
My father had just as little to give, and hit me hard every time I as a toddler went near him.

I´m sorry to say that the words "mother" and "father" mean very little to me. Very little positive that is. It has taken me a long time to reconcile myself with the fact that I´m better off
without these people.

Terrible to say, but I feel nothing for them, or people in general. I´ve tried, but every time I´ve opened myself to others, I end up getting used and abused.

On the other hand I love nature and animals deeply.

I´ve heard this story about "the wounded healer" many times. Lastly from the psychic Carol Clarke who predicted a rather amazing future for me in this respect starting from the end of 2012.
Hmm...I very much want it to be true, but find it rather inconceivable that I´ll get from zero to 100 in a few months time. Things being like they are now...but one can always hope for a miracle...

At least it´s always something to hear how well things are going for other people socially. Even though it´s a bit like enjoying the stories of what gorgeous dinners others are having, while you yourself are starving to death.

I guess this ended up sounding way too bitter. Sorry about spoiling "the warm fuzzies" of this thread:). I´m not actually bitter, just empty. And clueless...

[Bing Lalo]

I been with out talk with my dad for 2 years, some times i send an email. He is dificult, not only with me, also with my mom and sister, my mom and dad live in diferent houses. I guess time will help to put things in order, my hand will be open allways no matter what he does, but is his decision right now. I think he is shame of what he did, and now he needs time to come back home. In my opinon is a question of the EGO, by the moment his ego and his shame is more powerfull than his love, he is lost and do not want to recive help from us. But any way the time will help, in this life or in the next one. I desire to him the best and my heart is full of love, what he did is not important, I not judge, i just give my hand of love to him, but I guess he needs more time to fight with his ego and shame.

[bogeyman]

I still have flashbacks about what happened. It takes time and you have to face the experiences you when through, but for some these events are too much and when nothing can do done until they are ready. I am surprised I have recovered, but it did take 15 years though.

[wynderer]

some synchronicity w/the timing of this thread of Bill's & my own life

for reasons i do not wish to publickly share, i have been estranged from my bio family for close to 15 yrs -- the only one i have any contact with is a brother, who called me after his son died from a heroin overdose -- my own son had died some yrs earlier

just recently we have been talking via phone a lot, & really connecting -- like, i learned that he has been able to read others' minds all his life -- apparently we share the Draco bloodline DNA

i felt very sad after our first good talk, thinking, 'We could have been good friends if our family had not been so insane' [4 tested 'genius' kids by IQ standards, w/ no parental guidance, to put it mildly]

but -- better late than never

& Bill -- i don't know if you started this thread from intuition or what -- i don't like to be grim, but what i felt/am feeling w/this gift of honest & real communication w/my brother -- i see mass deaths coming [i try not to] -- & i think that those of us who have tried our best to live by & for Love are being guided to make our peace w/all we can before the timelines diverge

i'll bet there are other Avalonians who grok this

wyn

[wynderer]

Mods/Admins -- pls consolidate my posts if you wish

Hi Fred -- a bit off topic but hope OK w/Bill -- when i was thinking about getting over my sulks & rejoining Avalon -- cruising the forum as a guest -- when i saw your photo, i felt/thought --'Well, here's another who feels like family ' --

wyn


Good idea for a thread Bill, this is the kind of hard life lesson that won't be learned in school, save maybe for a hint or two of it on the playground at recess.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Here's an uncomfortable question for an uncomfortable subject matter. I don't know about anyone else, but over time I get to feeling about some forum members like they are family, to varying degrees, and the forum being a sort of weird home away from home. That being said, does this common sense recipe for patching things up with family, also apply when close members on a tight knit forum have them a good public go at it, and become estranged?

I didn't speak much to my mom the last couple of years before she died, and looking back it was over really petty and stupid s**t, on both sides. But just as fate would have it, I gave her a hug and a kiss on the cheek, just hours before she died unexpectadly. I'm still very thankful that was our last interaction on this plane.

Cheers,
Fred

[Woody]

Thank you Bill for this thread, and everyone else effected by this subject,
I also come from a problematic family, i have not seen my parents in twenty years, a very difficult choice i made due to emmotional abuse from both my mother and father, also on occasion violence from my father who would beat me until i'd bleed.
Twelve months ago i was contacted by one of my sisters to inform me that my father had been admitted to hospital and was very poorly, i decided to try and put the past to rest and make peace with my parents before it was too late.
I telephoned the hospital ward where my father was being nursed to enquire how he was and also to ask if he would like me to visit him. The telephone was given to another one of my sister, who informed me that i would not be welcome ever, that she was instructing the hospital not to give me any information should i telephone again, and not to allow me onto the ward.
I hope you can imagine how upset and hurt i felt, it made me remember why i had severed contact with them twenty years previously.
I have to admit that i have been and still am lonely, it is difficult not being part of a family, not belonging to anyone.
My father recovered, i have not had any contact since.

Kind regards,
Woody

[Bill Ryan]

I have to admit that i have been and still am lonely, it is difficult not being part of a family, not belonging to anyone.
My father recovered, i have not had any contact since.


This thread has moved me very greatly. I started it through a combination of intuition -- and the synchronicity of a good friend sharing with me their own story (a very happy one).

I was immensely struck by several accounts that were shared. I don't even want to minimize anyone by singling out some above others. It's extraordinarily hard to know what to say.

For Woody: I was an only child, and we were the stereotypical nuclear family. No aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins -- just the three of us. It was a relatively normal upbringing. No great traumas, no separations, no abuse.

I didn't get on well with my father, who was a little damaged and tended to be very controlling: but he was in many ways a brilliant maverick (and my mother was a brilliant writer, blessed with tremendous sensitivity and perception) -- and so I like to think that I may have ended up with much the best of them both.

My father died in 1987, and my mother, to whom I was very close, in 2007. I was then alone in the world: no family at all.

There may have been some distant relatives somewhere... but I had no idea who they were, and even if I had made some connection they would have been meaningless strangers.

It felt very weird indeed. I felt absolutely on my own. I immediately realized how unusual it was. Very few people share that experience of having no family whatsoever.

Soon after, however, I began to feel great freedom. Now, 5 years later, I feel totally integrated with a network of close friends and deep relationships that are way more than a family substitute.

The moral of that story? Woody, you have no need to feel lonely. Your father has his own karma and compulsive patterns to play out. Whatever happened was not your fault.

You are surrounded and embraced and loved by as many good people as you want to manifest in your life. They're all there. They do not have to be blood relatives. Spiritual relatives -- a completely different phenomenon -- are actually far more enduring and important.

[Thinking Allowed]

It's been 4 months since my Father's death. He was one of nine children and hehad it tough. His mother died when he was eleven and he was subjected to a violentupbringing with an alcoholic father. Part of his dysfunctional life was transferredto my upbringing and I was very scared of him and actually hated him for mostof my youth due to his violent outbursts. I couldn't forgive him until he wasdiagnosed with cancer for the second time in his life. He died at 66 years oldand I was privileged to be there at his death in hospital. I told him that Iloved him and held his hand while he passed away. It was extremely emotionaland at that point I could forgive him for his past indiscretions. We are alldealt a different hand and it is only now that I wonder how I would have livedmy life under his circumstances where survival was key. We should all walk inanothers footsteps before we judge.

[bogeyman]

This thread is a conduit, and a release.

[bogeyman]

I wish I could tell you more.....:confused: It is unbelievable. My family my god!" I wish I was ignorant!

[Agape]

Strange synchronicity , thanks Bill .

I've actually triggered this in myself , just about 2 days ago after writing a fresh new post on recently relocated Camelot forum .
To explain a little bit ..the old Camelot forum was allegedly under one of those DOS attacks for many days but then we've got to know it was relocated ,
we all knew there's new forum under construction . It simply went off ..

I was not sure with signing myself back but friend moved some of my materials about Kalachakra and the Bodhgaya Event to new thread ,
at the same time , Barry came to terms with the 'upper echelon' of the Camelot as he offered to moderate the forum . It ended up in disagreement and the topic ( and thread ) is closed now .

Nevertheless , when I signed up , I found myself with whitely white piece of paper ( or better to say screen ;) ) to write on and did not notice others would be noticing my presence , late at night .
It felt interesting ..

Usually , I don't like myself carrying posts from one board to another ..see if I can do that ..



I want to clarify one thing here and that statement of mine will probably stand the test of time , because after all, I know myself some 39 years as human being and on deeper note, know myself personally, intimately and have to be honest with myself in everyday life , knowing my very ET nature as well.
There are people who can actually tune into someone being different, others can not and can not be blamed for that.

There are exceptional dogs who can understand cats but most can't . There are tiger moms who can breast feed a puppy while most would have him for lunch .
In the rough circumstances of earthly character , nature seems to dictate more rules than we think of . It applies to dealings between family members , friends and foes alike .
Compassion beyond what nature dictates is almost very rare .

Nature ..though many like to deny it .. is like your basic programming, biological programming and later also, societal programming that takes over character and situations , especially important situations where your life or life of dear ones is concerned .

In more than one way, this society is programmed not to know, not to ask questions, not to be concerned about each other ..

It's really strange this is the 'advanced human society' we talk about here . With few exceptions , most I see around me is 'hive mind'.

And individualities, even those of the best people , faithfully hiding in corners .


Whichever fits into this and that particular hive goes .


Back to myself, I'm not a 'groupie' and never were. I had real problem, in early years in my life fitting to any collective at all . It's exactly the hive mentality that made me feel stupid about it. Clapping hands all at the same time,
respecting Charles because teacher told Charles is great . Feeling like 'all others do' .


I'm quite a bit miffed when I hear and read again, in the alternative community about 'alien hive mind' and 'ETs being bugs' , to put it short .

I made no luck with stating things openly about myself and even among researchers, and friends who accept there's 'something in me' ,

the attacks always came back from one side or another, pointing fingers on 'the evil aliens ..'


I have to skip over tons of materials that seem to support their point, I'm familiar with them and they're all over the web.


About so called 'alien hive mind' , which is gross misinterpretation of what way consciousness works within all groups of entities and species ,

humans are perfect example of how 'hive mind' works .

The difference is not in it existing or not, the difference is merely in level of awareness and cooperation between members of any particular group.


Suppose you all are true friends , can tune it, feel for each other, when you are set to accomplish a task, you act in unison, you create natural resonance where everyone does what is the best for the group .
Help each other to accomplish the task .


On the other hand, if you don't care about each other and prefer not to know , when the time calls to action, most will simply stay behind .


With that and listen carefully, I am not saying that group consciousness is the answer , or at least it's not always the answer .


The fact is that 99% of people are afraid to be alone. Collective and belonging to particular 'mind hive' is not only protective and supportive and fulfils the meaning of life because we are not alive for our own sake
or 'just to be' ,

it also rises awareness . Now the more important question comes whether the collective is right one for you and vice versa ..


and so on. The moment something ( erroneously ) starts getting on my mind here , I am quitting . I'm like that . I prefer to be me.


As I've said at start, I'm not a groupie . I see very little sense in my friends, the community arguing about which forum is better .



Like when my parents divorced when I was 7 , I felt openly sad when Bill & Kerry and the whole Camelot Project was split . I have heard all the reasons and I'm supposed to be tall enough to know that 'things happen' in life .

And it does not really matter you may say, as they are two people continuing their respective paths ...


till they don't throw tomatoes at each other it's all good. Likewise, I see no if any meaning of distancing myself from this or that 'group' , I think it's funny .

We're not here to be elitarian group with special consciousness . We're not here to be 'white-supremacist' or 'black -underground-radicals' , or anything of that sort .
We are all colourful group and certainly contain each of these elements , looking at the numbers of people who ever join the forums I'm afraid we contain about everyone really .

And we have to deal with that . Anyway.


The reason for this statement in fact is probably much more simple than what I ran to above . The reasons why I don't spend much time on forums are either lack of time, health issues , mind you I've been alone here with computer for almost 6 or 7 years.

Things needing real solutions that I took on some recommended boards were simply washed over and over , and never acted upon with sense .

It got me seriously annoyed with time , as I learned about these 'web manners' and that it is simply a hobby for many people and how they spend their evenings , sitting in their safe cells and typing things . Copying and pasting . I learned that too, it's fun.
It solves nothing.

You learn what you read and learn the lethargy as well, and let people pulverise your testimony and truth and what else .


I don't want to go to that again, there are many news here worth reading .. and new people who need to learn on their own. I think our inner maturity , in life terms also very much differs from person to person.


I can't even pretend to fit in somewhere yet I'm quite happy to be here . It's merely because you are all lovable and smart . And because I can see , feel your respective individualities , at least sometimes and can appreciate your free spirit which is very much like my own .



Alright, hope I've explained that when I'm not around in sense of being active , I'm still on watch but probably having some serious issues to solve and work-i -should-do even if i don't want to do it. Commanding myself is not the easiest .


I'll have to cross over this being too long post .


I'm sad to see Barry has left the forum . The thing is ...whereas it does not seem to concern many people here, you've lost a researcher , someone with 40 years of experience, elder to Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan and many of the new 'blowers' on their sites ,

and let me spill the beans even more ..


Barry offered to take the Moderator post for the Forum , which means lots of extra work and it's a sacrifice of your time and life as some of you know .

There's been recruitment notice for new moderators and helpers on the forum since long ago and now Barry who is senior here , said I can take it .


I tell you one thing dears ... if you make shoe-cleaner with soft humble nature to chief-of-command post, you may lose the battle and if you make someone with general -like mind clean the shoes for job, you may lose it as well and will have badly cleaned shoes and lost battle .


Besides that it simply shows you don't care, don't care to know each other well enough and it is sad .


It's sad that since we ever came over here there was an aura of mistrust in the air and it took year or more to clear it up for Barry and now he's going ...hurt again.


No matter how much I love all of you I can't respect this. And it's about the 10th time it has happened .. seeing misunderstandings taking place and the good and polite stepping back , to leave the place ..



I won't write Kerry or Tommy to ask them 'why did you do that' , they are not small kids and they are busy . And if they are so blind and can not open the history files and keep knocking a person down , in front all our eyes ,

they would knock me down too..


It's discouraging because that's how we truly learn about human society and how badly it works .


It's really discouraging because of those 'sources' posted on Kerrys blog, maybe one percent could stand the test for 'hard core facts' and sites all over the net are flooded with disinformation

and decent people leave . What would you expect .


If there are many lies in the society and great discomfort , we seek free lands .. truth in the life , don't we .


That's how I see my 'web adventure' and many others too will end one day . To save your mind from 'the hive' .




Sorry, it's a long post but I did not notice time passing by , submerged in my mind , it was 4 am out of sudden . I need to say I cleared lots of 'stuff' from my mind by that alone ,
year or two pile of everyones else's problems that took place of my awareness of my own mission . Not that I cleaned that all completely but I think, I'm having an idea ..

Next morning , when I woke up very late and very tired , there was this clear memory on my 'human father' on my mind , it's feeling so strange.
Could be a piece of dream, as if I'm 5 years old and he is here and then there is presence and I know I've not seen him for 20 years now, he is a stranger to me , even if I met him today he would be a stranger .
I've actually seen him very little since they divorced with mum when I was about 7 , maybe once or twice a year at the best because he was so busy . And I turned very closed to my own self and did not make a good communication with him.
He has helped me to leave home to India, accidentally , when I was 19 because I desperately needed that flight ticket money and spoke to him never since because he was completely against my 'religious studies' , he was too 'down to earth' , extremely rational man .
I don't know even if he is still alive to be honest and I once searched him in telephone directory but I'm not really upto meeting with him,

I'm outspaced enough for mum who is much softer and empathetic . He was calmer of course, had sort of unshakable stability in him and ways I suddenly recalled and really could not explain myself how possibly ..he's been away for so long, without me noticing it .

Am strange I have to admit ..or not .


I like to be on my own very much, to feel free .. not being influenced, distracted by attachment to all their family histories, I find it silly stuff and not being about me .


Thank you for bringing this up though :yo:

[meeradas]

This touches only shortly and not exactly on topic, but it should also go here, as a reminder that it is not too late, even if someone died before 'reconciliation'.

When my granddad (my grandparents raised me) fell into a coma, i didn't make it to the hospital even once, in the 3 weeks before he died.
Guilt.

Guilt and all was completely released, when i had the following dream:
We met in his sleeping room, i had just woken up from a nap in his bed.
He gave me a big long embrace (sth he had never done during 'lifetime'), with a huge relaxed smile on his face.

Pre-story:
My grandad's been thru three times major brainwash in his life [have to cut the details];
thus, he was programmed to always appear in control - smiling was considered weakening one's emotional control, so it was a 'no go', most of the time.
My task, growing up, was easy to spot: I had to make the man smile, whenever i could. Not easy, with a master professional nazi curmudgeon... rarely did i succeed [tough childhood...].
Cut short:
My mom told me,
when the doctors and she decided to "turn off the machines, and let him go" when he was in a coma,
the man obviously was aware of the words spoken at his hospital bed - before he drew his last breath,
he put on a sweet smile, and went.

Mission accomplished.

[Woody]

Thank you again Bill,

i think my parents were maybe scarred by world war 2, they would have been children during this time.
My father was beaten by his father, and joined the air force to escape the abuse he suffered, he was stationed in malaya for a number of years.
My thoughts are that my parents did not know any better, they did not know how to bring up a boy without harshness, my father would often say to me that i would thank him one day for my upbringing.
I used to be very angry towards my parents, even now i don't understand what i did to deserve some of their treatment.
It has took quite a number of years for me to let go of my anger, the trouble is that now all i feel for them is numbness, i don't hate or truly love them, its as though they were not really my parents.
I believe that there are some positives from my childhood, i would not be who i am now if things had been different, i would probably not be here now on avalon seeking truth and spiritual growth, or become a nurse either.
Maybe there are reasons why we experience the things we do.

Thank you again Bill and everyone effected by this subject,
Kind regards,
Woody

[Meesh]

Great thread. If you can't re-connect in a corporeal sense, for whatever reason, connect with your spirit. Whatever happens on the "inside" is always more important than what happens on the "outside". Hold that person in your mind in a loving way everyday--whatever that means to you. Then stay open to whatever happens.

[bluestflame]

it's never too late , yesterday i had a dream i was awake in it in a room full of older people my nan came up to me and gave me a card that had full living colour and moved withing me happy fathers day

i felt the tears well from i knew not where

then i noticed my grandmother and realized my nan had passed(a couple of years ago) and went to draw it to my grandmothers attention , to see if she saw her, but then realized she had passed only recently (couple of months ago)

there was a calm feeling when i awoke

[jackovesk]

Easier said than done Bill..?

I am currently experiencing a long-term rift with my older brother...

What happens if you don't want to heal the rift..?

What happens if you know, in the long-run it will all pan out Ok..?

Blood has been spilt, physical scars may have healed but are a constant reminder of a (Full-On Brawl) I had with my own brother in a Hotel parking lot after he dis-respected my girlfriend at the time...:boxing:

My brother gets (Water on the Brain) we he drinks and knows not what he says or does...Over the years I have constantly had to stop him from getting into fights &/or getting him out of fights...

My 'Dickhead' brother once thought it would be a good idea to start a fight by himself with a Bikie Gang..! A friend and myself who tried to get him out of there after my brother threw the 1st punch, all ended up in the same Ambulance and taken to hospital.

Right throughout childhood, late-teens, early & late twenties the fluctuating rift has always been present between Big Brother & Little Brother...

Sounds probably worse than it is, but I have never really got along with my (Big Brother - The Bully) anyway...:noidea:

[astrid]

I have the same issue with my bro, Jackness.. its tough.
He drinks and beats on his partner and child, i tried so hard for years to intervene, but in the end i had
to look after my own health, it was real crazy making stuff..

I do what i can energetically from a distance, but you can only do your half, and meet them in the middle,
if they are seriously stuck in their victim paradigm, sometimes the "tough love" approach is the only way.
Sometimes its just not safe to be there in the physical, but that doesn't mean there isn't other things that you can do,
we are all connected after all.

As for my parents, another story all together, and this thread is also timely for me,
i get that this is so important to do, especially for them in their twilight years,
but yes.. where there was safety issues involved in the past, it does create a major
block in making that move.

Excellent thread, thanks so much Bill

[David Trd1]

This thread is profound and moving and envokes reflection.

[CivilDawn]

Wow, this thread has given me quite a rush. I deeply relate with the subject of family since I am the oldest of six brothers and sisters and am witnessing a seriously dense wave of negativity passing through.

With that being said, I am troubled by the state of my family currently. My mom and dad have grown out of each other like an old pair of shoes, whose disconnect started IMO with my mom's affair with another man about 16 years ago. My father, in his altruistic stance, chose to stay with my mom for fear that a divorce would ruin us kids.. They ended up popping out 4 more kids after, one of which may have been a product of the affair..

Due to my dad's isolation/anger and my mom's martyrdom to carry the weight of the world on her shoulders, the kids have been left starving for affection and attention. Sons rebelling, sisters cutting their wrists is commonplace. This leads to my parents tightening their grips to try and CONTROL the situation. The whole thing is going ape sh*t.

I have been moved out of that house for a couple years now and in my absence I am developing a strong desire to reconnect. I have learned so much about love and so compulsive behavior that I can see an opening for my intervention. It's easy for me to identify problematic areas in this whole mosiac of destructive behavior, but the main thing that would bring uplift to this all is love-based leadership. I want to be that leader, inspiring them to lead each other through the trenches of their own tribulations.

I am scared though...

Something about the responsibility of this undertaking is looming over me, and my negative self-talk is louder than my words of encourgement. I want to be better than that, and I'm beginning to think that this doesn't have to be a colossal undertaking at all.. Maybe all I need to do is just show up in their lives and give love. Maybe this is all so much more simple than the scenario my mind is creating out of fear, which leads back to the valuable morsel of wisdom in Bill's OP.

I want my sister to stop cutting her wrists, but I can't change what she does without receiving resentment from her. I don't want to control because I don't wish to impede upon anyones free will. I'm not about that at all.

What I can change is the environment, which includes my energies and creations. I can set up signposts to lead the way.. though this will require a leap of faith with the absence of doubt. I want to work up that courage to walk into the burning building and lead the way to fresh air and soft grass.. I want to stop being so weak.

[pilotsimone]

I am scared though...

Something about the responsibility of this undertaking is looming over me, and my negative self-talk is louder than my words of encourgement. I want to be better than that, and I'm beginning to think that this doesn't have to be a colossal undertaking at all.. Maybe all I need to do is just show up in their lives and give love. Maybe this is all so much more simple than the scenario my mind is creating out of fear, which leads back to the valuable morsel of wisdom in Bill's OP.


CivilDawn,

I think you are really onto something with the bolded part.

Maybe it would be helpful to focus on each family member’s strengths and stay silent on their weaknesses. Let them know you’re there because you love them, not because you wish to change them.

Acceptance is what everyone craves. Only when they feel accepted by you, will they trust you. At least that has been my experience with many friends/family members.

It is very hard to be vulnerable. Shame runs very deep in us humans. We’ve been conditioned to punish ourselves relentlessly for our mistakes.

In my opinion, a delicate and positive approach would give you the greatest chance of pulling them out of their suffering.

And if you can't...well, at least you know that you showed compassion and love (rather than judgment). Your heart and mind should find peace in that.

Best wishes.

[Rocky_Shorz]

My father ,who I respect and still love, have had a falling out over my grandson and his great grandson. My grandson is bi-racial and to me it makes no difference in anyone's color. My grandson is a wonderful child full of fun and energy galore yet my father still clings to his 1960's past that has put a wedge between us. I will not put up with racism in any form yet, I stll respect and love my father . I have tried to "reach" my father but it won't work. So the best way for me is to stay away from my him. My grandson just like us all are members of the HUMAN race. Yet,I still need to make peace somehow with my father for he is getting up in years. I really don't know what to do.:confused:

when was the last time you sent him a card that said I love you?

a phone call for someone at that age has little meaning, but a card he will put in view so he sees it every day...

drop by with a bucket of Chicken, and look around to see if you can spot the card... ;)

(I was reading through this thread from the beginning and just spotted this...)



it's never too late , yesterday i had a dream i was in a room full of older people my nan came up to me and gave me a card that had full living colour and moved wishing me happy fathers day

i felt the tears well from i knew not where

then i noticed my grandmother and realized my nan had passed(a couple of years ago) and went to draw it to my grandmothers attention , to see if she saw her, but then realized she had passed only recently (couple of months ago)

there was a calm feeling when i awoke



Nirvana is where dreams and Heaven meet...

[nomadguy]

I am in a similar debacle,
My father had turned against me sometime back, and then to sum it up I stood next to my mother through a break-up after a long relationship of more than 30 years. Everything is now being split, the family is holding tight trying not to break up -emotionally speaking, the siblings in my family are stalwarts and always stick together. But this has damaged us in a very subtle way. We are all dumbfounded at the way things have gone down.
There is a lot of misunderstanding, and whole lot more mistrust, certainly within my siblings and my father.
I for one have completely lost my trust in the man.

How do I forgive one that continues to do harm?
I do not know if he intends to, but somehow the way his personality is behaving the way he is now is destructive and coarse.
More news of distance menacing comes overtime. My thinking is that he must have a vendetta.
I had already come to terms with the idea that he could be a royal sh*t. But the part that gets me is why?....
I am finding it very difficult to heal this wound as it is still sustaining more damage.
Any advice? :rain:


Excellent post by the way!

[Rocky_Shorz]

wow, I want to give all of you a huggg...

I came from a boringly wonderful family, and have helped so many others not understanding why they wouldn't keep in touch, it is so foreign to me to think of not talking to those you love...

facebook has put us in touch with friends and classmates, and let us keep an eye on family...

but to those who don't want to talk, I can understand where that could make it worse, keeping updated without the worry or pain of speaking...

I picked up a friends phone that hadn't spoke with her mom in 15 years, the number was there, I clicked Dial...

when she answered, I was telling a joke, listening to her laughing in the background, then I did the innocent, hello, is someone there?

I looked at the dial, said oops I butt dialed and tossed her the phone...

she said hello without looking...

best of buds again...

saying hi is easier than most people think, so don't think, just do it...

[Rocky_Shorz]

I am in a similar debacle,
My father had turned against me sometime back, and then to sum it up I stood next to my mother through a break-up after a long relationship of more than 30 years. Everything is now being split, the family is holding tight trying not to break up -emotionally speaking, the siblings in my family are stalwarts and always stick together. But this has damaged us in a very subtle way. We are all dumbfounded at the way things have gone down.
There is a lot of misunderstanding, and whole lot more mistrust, certainly within my siblings and my father.
I for one have completely lost my trust in the man.

How do I forgive one that continues to do harm? I do not know if he intends to,

My thinking is that he must have a vendetta.

But the part that gets me is why?....

I am finding it very difficult to heal this wound as it is still sustaining more damage.

Any advice? :rain:


Excellent post by the way!

each time you remember a painful moment, you are reliving it...

they don't heal, just by remembering...

when did you last call Dad, just to say hi, and ask about fishing, football, things you used to like to do together... Bring up fun memories, stay as far away from pain as possible...

if he starts getting course, gotta run someone is at the door...

you gave him warm fuzzies, then when he was bad, yanked it away, leaving him in the cold...

he will bang his head on the wall knowing what he did...

keep doing it until the course is gone... have your siblings do the same...

his family was his whole life, and now it is gone... or is it...

that's for all of you to decide, Mom made up her mind already... ;)

[Fred Steeves]

I have been moved out of that house for a couple years now and in my absence I am developing a strong desire to reconnect. I have learned so much about love and so compulsive behavior that I can see an opening for my intervention. It's easy for me to identify problematic areas in this whole mosiac of destructive behavior, but the main thing that would bring uplift to this all is love-based leadership. I want to be that leader, inspiring them to lead each other through the trenches of their own tribulations.

I am scared though...


Hi CivilDawn, you wouldn't be human if you were't a bit intimidated at the prospect of doing what it is you know you have to do. This kind of "knowing" will never let you down, so if being that leader for your broken family is what you are being prompted to do, take that leap of faith and do it. I can promise you that no matter what the results might wind up being, you'll be glad you did.

Cheers,
Fred

P.S. Just one thing though, never try to force anything. Allowance is the magic word. Allow things to happen.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

[crested-duck]

The death of a abusive dad that was also a energy vampire was a well deserved and welcome release of my biggest problem in life. A weight was lifted as I watched him being buried....then returned that evening alone with my sister and I pissed on his grave.....Life for me has been peacefull ever since....Rob

[Swan]

Dear everybody who has posted here,

I would just like to mention a method that allows you to connect with familly members who may be deceased, or estranged:

Bert Hellinger - Orders of love: http://www.hellingerpa.com/hellinger.shtml

It is called Familly constellations. It takes place in a group setting with one or two counsellers. Various members of the group are asked to portray members of your familly. They tap into "the field" and can sense the feelings of the famiily member. The counsellers then try and find how to shift things so a resolution is acheived.

I have done this several times and find it to be an authentic and helpful process. I experienced that information that I had not given verbally, was picked up anyway by people potraying my familly members.

[bogeyman]

Abusive dad, uncle, aunt, mother used as a punch bag, brothers suffered this kind of fate as well as myself. They continued with the abuse to their off spring. It effected me and I became isolated from people in general. I have no contact with family members now. I have been and have witnessed other members of my family, including my mother and my brothers, being assaulted by my father numerous times. Further my father and his relatives are very manipulative. I never witnessed my sister being hit, since she was the favorite. When guests arrived at my home, my father and his relatives puts on a charming, caring and happy personality. Upon the guests leaving he changes to his ways on controlling, verbally abusive and violence. This occurred numerous times through my childhood to adulthood. My mother took the worst of all of this, and is frankly beyond help, it has gone too far.

This manipulative behavior is a family trait, so is the controlling behavior and violence. My mother was constantly assaulted, and emotional blackmail has been used frequently. It was and still is a repressive environment; I personally cannot even be in the same room as my immediate family due to the nature of their personalities and the memories of the past. I underwent counseling for many years to try to come to terms with the emotional and psychological effects this long term behavior had on me. There was no food in the house. It effected my education, me ability to form relationships. I lucky broke the cycle of violent, me brothers and my sister continue this. I have no contact now with members of my family. I found out it goes back further with my dads relatives, and my mothers too. My mums brother suffers from schizophrenic, and is in a maximum security hospital, and I have not seen him since I have 7. My other uncle (mums side) is a abuser of a sexual nature. Once wonders how I survived, I did and through counseling and healing I have pulled through. My life only began a few years ago.

[Woody]

Hi bogeyman, well done for surviving. We seem to have much in common, have you ever wondered if there may be a nagative entity with an attachment to your family? The reason i ask this is because i have started to consider this with my family, i have even wondered if a curse has been put on my family.
Although it might be that my family have psychopathic tendances.
Stay strong bogeyman and everyone,
Kind regards,
Woody

[bogeyman]

Hi bogeyman, well done for surviving. We seem to have much in common, have you ever wondered if there may be a nagative entity with an attachment to your family? The reason i ask this is because i have started to consider this with my family, i have even wondered if a curse has been put on my family.
Although it might be that my family have psychopathic tendances.
Stay strong bogeyman and everyone,
Kind regards,
Woody

My healer met my dad once, and she said there was dark energy (black) around him and she couldn't stand his being in his company. His energy "clinged" to you. I'm very sensitive to my surrounding and yes I sense it too.

[CivilDawn]

How do I forgive one that continues to do harm?
I do not know if he intends to, but somehow the way his personality is behaving the way he is now is destructive and coarse.
More news of distance menacing comes overtime. My thinking is that he must have a vendetta.
I had already come to terms with the idea that he could be a royal sh*t. But the part that gets me is why?....
I am finding it very difficult to heal this wound as it is still sustaining more damage.
Any advice? :rain:

nomadguy,

Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not a Get Out of Jail Free card. Acceptance of what is, or what has happened, including all the pain and misfortune we gather from our experiences, allows us to lighten the load in that giant garbage bag of shi*t we carry over our shoulders every day we are alive.

Not taking it personally is something else that I've found to be helpful. They have formed their own reality around their own beliefs about what is. Therefore, often times, they have copious amounts of destructive behaviors gained from their past. They have chosen this for themselves.

Forgiveness will not remove the chances of further suffering, but despite all the emotional cuts, soars and bruises, you may find you feel a little lighter and are able to operate from a place of love rather than resistance and resentment.

[ghostrider]

I was divorced in 97, my father passed in 98, then my grandmother in 99, my grandfather in 2000, I was 30 years old and one side of my family was wiped out, so I know the value of staying in touch , even if it's just a phone call. The only one left is mom.

[pilotsimone]

Generational suffering...

A relevant passage from pages 45 – 49 of Falling into Grace (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1604070870/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=beymed-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399369&creativeASIN=1604070870) by Adyashanti:

Now I want to introduce a different type of suffering, one that can be particularly difficult to unravel. Over my years of teaching, I’ve noticed that there’s a particular type of suffering that is sticky, pervasive, and often very hard to find your way out of. I’ve come to call this “generational suffering.” The notion of generational suffering is based on the fact that each of us comes from a generational line, which goes as far back in time as we can imagine, back even to the original human beings, our original ancestors themselves. We’re actually the outcome of a long chain of many, many generations. Each of our family systems is imbued with a tremendous amount of beauty and goodness, and also carried within these systems, as we all know, is what we might call “generational pain,” or “generational suffering.” This is an actual energy that is unconsciously passed down from one generation to the next.

If you look closely at a particular family system, you’ll see the pain that tends to be passed down through a family lineage. For example, parents who have a particular tendency to suffer with anger or depression tend to produce children who suffer from the same afflictions, and then these children produce children who suffer with the same, and so on. Generational suffering is very insidious. It becomes deeper and deeper ingrained in a family as time wears on, and it forms the core of much of the suffering that people experience.

One of the interesting things to note about generational suffering is that it’s not personal. In other words, it’s more like a virus that infects the people within a family. It’s a way of suffering that infects a family and then gets passed on, almost like the flu or a cold, through future generations. When you’re born, without even knowing it, you’re actually being handed this generational pain. In response, you will complain about it, think it’s terrible, or otherwise resist it. But by doing so, you will come to see that denial or complaints about this pain only makes it sink more deeply into your being.

When you start to identify how this generational suffering operates in your life, when you see how your particular way of suffering is similar to the way others in your family suffer, it can open your heart and mind. From this wider perspective, you can actually start to let go of blame and see that those who passed down suffering to you through this generational chain were themselves experiencing the pain and quite unconscious of what was happening. This pain just came to them, and they manifested it in whatever way they did, and then they unknowingly passed it down to the next generation…

…Eventually, this energy comes to you, and you become the forefront of this generational pain. It’s easy to get resentful and blame this pain on someone else, but when you really see the nature of it, you see that it’s not personal, even though the implications for you feel very personal, and maybe the way it was acted out was also very personal. But the pain itself, the suffering itself, is really not you. It was handed down unconsciously from one person to the next, from one generation to the next. Of course the way it gets handed down is often extraordinarily painful, sometimes violent, because it seems that you are the target of this suffering as it manifests in you and in the family members around you. But if you can avoid getting completely lost in the anger or the resentment – even though, from a relative perspective, it’s understandable – if you can withhold your judgment for just a moment, you will start to see that the pain that you feel was in large part suffering from others in your family-and it does not have to be your own.

When you feel and can identify this deep pain within you, see that blaming others in your family is not the solution. When you feel the urge to blame, keep in mind that your generational line has lived with the same pain, too. It is highly likely that they never even imagined that it was generational. They probably took it very personally, and therefore their only option was to act it out. When you start to see this in terms of a long chain of suffering handed down from generation to generation, and you realize that you’re the one, here and now, who can become conscious of how this works, then you have the opportunity to put an end to it.

[Knowrainknowrainbows!]

@ delfine ;

Thank you for your candor and honesty ... Your story made me think of my own multiple failed attempts at reconnecting with some of family. Now, at 55 years of age, a few of the things I've come to know is that "timing is everything" and I am only responsible for my intent and actions, not those of others. Also, I try to analyze and understand events/circumstances from as many viewpoints as possible. Ironically, it requires detaching emotionally in order to reconnect emotionally.

Still, numerous rejections are disheartening ... I've found letting go of that moment and reassuring myself (as a best friend would do) helps redirect my energies so I don't dwell on that which I cannot change. MY door remains open to healing. That message has been delivered. Invitations are awaiting favorable responses ... In the interim I live day by day making new relationships and learning the value of compassion.

I am thankful for this topic, Bill.
KRKR

[wynderer]

Rocky_Shorz post about his loving family reminds me of a New Yorker cartoon i saw yrs ago: a big auditorium w/a big banner hung across the stage reading, 'Convention for Children of Functional Families' -- in the huge auditorium, there is one lone man sitting, surrounded by a sea of empty seats --

unhappy families seem to be far more common than happy ones, in this modern world

i agree re forgiving -- my parents are quite elderly now -- i would dearly love to be able to tell them that i forgive them, that i know more about their lives now & can understand why they acted in such insane ways to their children

since they don't want contact, instead i pray for them

it would be sad if a resentment against a family member kept one chained to the wheel of karma here in this matrix at a time when a way out is nearing




wow, I want to give all of you a huggg...

I came from a boringly wonderful family, and have helped so many others not understanding why they wouldn't keep in touch, it is so foreign to me to think of not talking to those you love...

facebook has put us in touch with friends and classmates, and let us keep an eye on family...

but to those who don't want to talk, I can understand where that could make it worse, keeping updated without the worry or pain of speaking...

I picked up a friends phone that hadn't spoke with her mom in 15 years, the number was there, I clicked Dial...

when she answered, I was telling a joke, listening to her laughing in the background, then I did the innocent, hello, is someone there?

I looked at the dial, said oops I butt dialed and tossed her the phone...

she said hello without looking...

best of buds again...

saying hi is easier than most people think, so don't think, just do it...

[Meesh]

I'm surprised, and somewhat saddened, that this very, very, important thread has only 3 pages of contributions so far. By way of comparison, the Mitchell Combes thread now has 24 pages. I'll step out on a limb
and say that this thread is the most important thread on the forum right now. It's about personal transformation and offers an opportunity to wake up!

ok, rant over.

[Limor Wolf]

Reading this thread has touched a chord in my heart. to some of us, the most painful word in the vocabulary is 'family'. I know that it was like that for me for many many years, and I still can not completely shake this difficulty even today.

I have not been in touch with my father for more than 21 years, funnily, I see him almost everyday now as my mother is hospitalized, and I exchange kind words with him. My forgiving and asking for foregivness has already been done a couple of years ago, with the understanding of who we all are and what we are here for (lessons) this was done without the involvment of the other side. I also needed to forgive myself, since being an 11 years old, I wanted to kill my father more times than I can remember. I basically wanted him to go far far away and not come back. such great was the pain.

As a child, I was convinced as I could be, that being born to this family is an unexplained mistake, all five family members are greatly different from one another, in characteristics, in expressivness and in vibrations, and I did not feel that I belonged there. Both my parents, so cought up with their own demons, scratches, irritations, childhood traumas (My mother, a holocaust survivor) and are unconsciousness beings, could not understand a sensitive child. The set was one of a constant anger, disrespect, extreme ego, unfaithfulness, guilt accusations and very low vibration. There was nowhere to run... The one word that I clearly remember that was rolling in my head was ' harmony', at age 8-9 I don't quite know how I was familiar with this word, but i desperately needed it.

Family life was strange when my parents were having a 'mormon like' relationship, where there was another woman in the picture, she was 'part of the family', her and her children were always first, my father put us, his children, in a third or a fourth place after his own needs, that of his friends and that of 'her'. my mother accepted it and dis-attached hersaelf from any emotions, but all three of us children were very much afraid of her, this kind of 'inner volcano' she carried, could not be kept dormant ...

I write, and I keep getting the 11:11's on the computure, I don't often share, but I think it is good, it is a conduit and a release, as bogeyman said.

The surprising wake up call (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13633-Our-x-factor)that occured in my life at the age of 32 was the most relieving gift I could ever wish for. everything slowly dawned on me : Parents with emotional disabilities and a daughter who can feel every thought, feeling and vibration of someone else and is taking it on herself, is a winning recipe for a rapid spiritual growth of all of us who are involved.

We, as grown up adult seems to be a 'product' of our childhood and of our family surrounding, how come 'love' and 'family' don't always come together? if we did not recieve enough love or recognition as children ,if our soul got no reference, or a very needed occasional caressed touch, than the journey to accomplish all those things in our adult life is a long, curvy and steep road. it is a real challange. I believe that our world is full of people who have not received enough love or enough recognition by their families, it might not be anyone's fault, it is simply a vicious circle of the 'beaten child syndrom' later becoming the 'beating parent' and vice versa.

It is time to clean the bruises and stop this cycle.

In recent years my family has gone into a wonderful process of healing and renwal and I love and cherish them all for doing the best they can.

About my father, the one I thought was a selfish and egocentric person is a young (baby) soul experiencing itself and fulfilling its own desires, just like a child who wants to continue and play even when his mother is calling him to do chores. I feel for this soul and I wish him all the best, I know that with time, he will move forword and be more attentive to others. But his presence is not needed for me. I keep remembering this song -


"Words, don't come easy to me, how can I find a way, for me to say : 'I love you' , words don't come easy.."


Thank you all for your sharing ~

[CdnSirian]

I'm surprised, and somewhat saddened, that this very, very, important thread has only 3 pages of contributions so far. By way of comparison, the Mitchell Combes thread now has 24 pages. I'll step out on a limb
and say that this thread is the most important thread on the forum right now. It's about personal transformation and offers an opportunity to wake up!

ok, rant over.

This is a very difficult subject - I suspect many more are reading than thanking or responding. Some simply cannot.

[nomadguy]

How do I forgive one that continues to do harm?
I do not know if he intends to, but somehow the way his personality is behaving the way he is now is destructive and coarse.
More news of distance menacing comes overtime. My thinking is that he must have a vendetta.
I had already come to terms with the idea that he could be a royal sh*t. But the part that gets me is why?....
I am finding it very difficult to heal this wound as it is still sustaining more damage.
Any advice? :rain:

nomadguy,

Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not a Get Out of Jail Free card. Acceptance of what is, or what has happened, including all the pain and misfortune we gather from our experiences, allows us to lighten the load in that giant garbage bag of shi*t we carry over our shoulders every day we are alive.

Not taking it personally is something else that I've found to be helpful. They have formed their own reality around their own beliefs about what is. Therefore, often times, they have copious amounts of destructive behaviors gained from their past. They have chosen this for themselves.

Forgiveness will not remove the chances of further suffering, but despite all the emotional cuts, soars and bruises, you may find you feel a little lighter and are able to operate from a place of love rather than resistance and resentment.

Thank you for this there is definitely a value to it, And I also agree with at least one of the comments above that this might be the most important threads going right now.
I recently got myself off of addictive few crutches, cigarettes, booze, coffee and a few other bad habits.
~In doing so I had to face my own inner demons. This was not an enjoyable happening, and even so, I would not take it back for the world. Within those addictive habits was a lot negative energy that led me into negative cycles.

I see the tied up knots of relationships as a way of holding in dark energies. And more so than addictions. I no longer resent my father, rather when he does a thing I don't like, I get mad just like I would with anyone whom had done such a thing. He is a person like I am a person. And we all make mistakes and piss off others. The best I can do so far... Is that I sometimes go into meditation or pray that he may find himself again. The person in him I once knew whom was a loving father.
And not a greedy mind-vampyre.

I had a dream recently where he was in the dream split into two separate people. Both looked like him but were starkly different and the appearance also was slightly different.
One quiet and calm, the real father I have always known. The other was loud mouthed and a nasty distasteful sort, like golem the biker.

I still respect the person he once was. And I still see him that way, regardless of who he has become now, that was his doing and is his own path to deal with, so it is not up to me. Most of that could very well come from his dealings from youth with his own family dynamic.

I still hold out hope that he can find that person within himself, whom he lost touch of. In the dream the real person whom I knew as a child never gave up and always helped out. And I hope this is true in the waking, that he has not completely lost touch with that persona. I very much look forward to the day where he begins to see himself the man he once was, that his children adored.
Until then I feel I must deal with him like I would with anyone. As his behavior is that of a stranger to me.

~ Without turns you rotten, With brings it all together and heals everything ~

[jessamy99]

My world was violent when I was small. I was thrown across the room in the middle of being breast fed. I hid under the bed where my elder brother shoved me, promising not to move until he came. Once I was there for over 24 hours, listening to the bangs and screams. My mother bravely left my father, with 4 of us children. My father continued to be cruel, verbally. After he died, he came to me in a dream and apologised. I loved him in spite of his nastiness. The younger of my brothers also bullied me all my life. He died in 2005 and since then I have felt free for the first time to be myself.
It is strange, so late in life to try and find my feet and who I am after all this time.
I am now making bridges with cousins and it is refreshing to find them loving.
Thankyou Bill for this thread.
I think we all have so much to say about our families, it is hard to know where to start!

With love, jessamy xxxxxx

[Bill Ryan]

I'm surprised, and somewhat saddened, that this very, very, important thread has only 3 pages of contributions so far. By way of comparison, the Mitchell Combes thread now has 24 pages. I'll step out on a limb
and say that this thread is the most important thread on the forum right now. It's about personal transformation and offers an opportunity to wake up!


This is a very difficult subject - I suspect many more are reading than thanking or responding. Some simply cannot.

I'm quite sure this is the case.

I know one Avalon member, who has had the most extraordinary (positive!) experience, who has not yet found within themselves the words to contribute -- which they most definitely want to. I'm certain there are many more.

[astrid]

Last night when i checked my phone before going to bed
i had 2 missed calls from my Father..
Now he as called me maybe less than a dozen times in 47 years,
no exaggeration..

So threads like these are powerful things as they concentrate, focus and dig to the surface what
is hidden, buried and denied, via the group being able to hold the space for those
that have found it difficult to do for themselves, ( for whatever reason).
For me.. it was a case of not really having the skill set to deal with what was in
front of me,
and so much of that has changed. Sure safety is a valid and primal concern that
can't be just ignored.
But there are also ways around that, like taking a friend with you. Also, there is always that possibility that
those involved have genuinely seen the light and are indeed sorry for their part in the dance.. for while
they do need to be given a chance to say sorry. I guess to allow then that opportunity is a true gift of love.

So....yes its time for me to revisit this whole family issue.

It was too late last night to call him, but today i will return his call,
and will share what happens.

Again, thank you Bill and all for this "opening" it's truly a gift.

[astrid]

Btw... this whole issue, is very much "supported" by the current very powerful
alignments we are in this week.
Tom Lescher sums it up perfectly in his last report.

hvEYl9ZO3GV

He just happens to be also in a very Avalonian place.
no accidents.

Kind of digressing, but it very much explains why the time is now..

Like.. you might have thought that there was no way in hell that such a
reconciliation might ever occur, but if you put your energy into such things
at the right time, the door is already opened.
Like my Father calling me yesterday.

[Rocky_Shorz]

the most important truth I could ever share with all of you that are hurting is Forgiveness comes from within, not the actions of others...

soo many carry pain waiting for a sorry, but you can let it go yourself, so they don't "owe" you...

forgive and forget is the secret of happiness...

[bogeyman]

I have to say, even though this may sound harsh, I will be relieved when some of my relative are deceased. My mother is in a nursing home now, she had a mental brake down, of cause my father blamed it on us, never himself. I did try to get her away from my father, and it work for a few years, but with his manipulative behavior she went back to him, and so she went down hill, now she is in care. He still visits her, which I find sicking. My brother in law (soon to be ex) is going through a divorce, and my sister is transferring all the violent events and emotional trauma, towards him and blames him for it, never her self. My family never look at themselves, its like a constant merry go round. As regards my mother, it will be a blessing when she passes on, this world hasn't offed the best for her, I know she was rapped by my father, and more than likely other members of my family. The psychiatric stated, that I shouldn't try to bring up the past, with my mother, she will not be able to deal with it. She never had any personal effects until recently, she was used and abused, so was I. I used to hide under the bed, and in the wardrobe to escape the dreadful environment I lived in. School was almost as bad, since I couldn't mix, I got targeted, so I was burning both ends of the candle and no where to run, except be by my self.

[David Trd1]

When you feel and can identify this deep pain within you, see that blaming others in your family is not the solution. When you feel the urge to blame, keep in mind that your generational line has lived with the same pain, too. It is highly likely that they never even imagined that it was generational. They probably took it very personally, and therefore their only option was to act it out. When you start to see this in terms of a long chain of suffering handed down from generation to generation, and you realize that you’re the one, here and now, who can become conscious of how this works, then you have the opportunity to put an end to it.

I totally resonate with that.

The above is something that came to me over time,not quite in those words but similar meaning none the less.Reflection is hard when your ''in the thick of it'',but it helps and as time passes and can broaden ones perspective and personal place in the Quagmire of family drama`s.Pain brings with it hidden gifts,a point of reference or an experience owned or evolving in the case of loved ones

Maybe the best approach is to try and stay balanced(i know its hard sometimes),give love,understanding and acceptance to those whom partake in it with you.A good chat or phonecall,out of the blue or in the right situation is all it takes or sometimes even a smile where one is unexpected.Try and bring peace with you to these toxic situations and then you`ll give that point of reference.You`d be surprised how the little things build up over time to create a new relationship/paradigm with another.

[RunningDeer]

I have to say, even though this may sound harsh, I will be relieved when some of my relative are deceased. My mother is in a nursing home now, she had a mental brake down, of cause my father blamed it on us, never himself. I did try to get her away from my father, and it work for a few years, but with his manipulative behavior she went back to him, and so she went down hill, now she is in care. He still visits her, which I find sicking. My brother in law (soon to be ex) is going through a divorce, and my sister is transferring all the violent events and emotional trauma, towards him and blames him for it, never her self. My family never look at themselves, its like a constant merry go round. As regards my mother, it will be a blessing when she passes on, this world hasn't offed the best for her, I know she was rapped by my father, and more than likely other members of my family. The psychiatric stated, that I shouldn't try to bring up the past, with my mother, she will not be able to deal with it. She never had any personal effects until recently, she was used and abused, so was I. I used to hide under the bed, and in the wardrobe to escape the dreadful environment I lived in. School was almost as bad, since I couldn't mix, I got targeted, so I was burning both ends of the candle and no where to run, except be by my self.


"The psychiatric stated, that I shouldn't try to bring up the past, with my mother, she will not be able to deal with it."
This statement about your Mom makes sense to me. I'd add that by digging out and working through your experiences, your energy field automatically triggers others that are open to change themselves. To me, that's a priceless gift anyone can give another.

Bogeyman, thank you for your honesty and courage to share what you lived through. I'm glad you are here; both for yourself, for me and for the forum. I've noticed that in just the short time you are here, you've offered numerous threads. All of which are chock full of knowledge, self-improvement, self-healing and thought provoking ideas. Thank you. :wave:

[jessamy99]

I have to say, even though this may sound harsh, I will be relieved when some of my relative are deceased. My mother is in a nursing home now, she had a mental brake down, of cause my father blamed it on us, never himself. I did try to get her away from my father, and it work for a few years, but with his manipulative behavior she went back to him, and so she went down hill, now she is in care. He still visits her, which I find sicking. My brother in law (soon to be ex) is going through a divorce, and my sister is transferring all the violent events and emotional trauma, towards him and blames him for it, never her self. My family never look at themselves, its like a constant merry go round. As regards my mother, it will be a blessing when she passes on, this world hasn't offed the best for her, I know she was rapped by my father, and more than likely other members of my family. The psychiatric stated, that I shouldn't try to bring up the past, with my mother, she will not be able to deal with it. She never had any personal effects until recently, she was used and abused, so was I. I used to hide under the bed, and in the wardrobe to escape the dreadful environment I lived in. School was almost as bad, since I couldn't mix, I got targeted, so I was burning both ends of the candle and no where to run, except be by my self.

I will meet you under the bed!! And in the wardrobe, I had forgotten that safe place until you mentioned it!
But now, I do not need to hide any more. :)

With love, jessamy xxxxx

[bogeyman]

I found in the beginning of dealing with all this, writing it down for yourself did help me. It was difficult at first but it allowed it to come out, since I talked to no one about it in my family, since it was that kind of situation, no discussion at all about this things. I was very emotional when I first told my GP in order to get counseling, but time, and reflection can help, but you have to be ready and out of the environment you are in. Because the barriers which are up in order for you to protect yourself in some degree, will start to come down, and you need to be in a safe place when this happens, because it is painful, emotionally, and their is a lot of angry and negativity. Also you have to be in the frame of mind to want to help your self out of the situation, instead of the repetition of violence, manipulation and lies. Its like pealing onions layer by layer, and it is hard looking at your self. But it can be done, time is a great healer.

[Bhusunda]

Thanks for this beautiful post Bill. Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences, I had to shed some tears reading so far, reminding me of my own problems with my parents and how it is healing now.

My parents have been both refugee kids fleeing from East Prussia and Silesia from the Russians at the end of the second world war. The whole german after-war generation is kind of traumatized by this. They were fighting with hunger, rape and survival. We only found out after the death of my grandma some years ago, that one of her kids, a very beloved aunt of us, was actually the offspring of such a rape. My grandma never told anyone and treated her as if it has been the child of her husband, who died in the war, exploding with a truck-full of ammunition. My father grew up with a lot of brothers and sisters on a farm. It was a tough life as he said, and the only fondness he seemed to have was the memory of his father who died shortly after the war, his mother was never loved by my father, and it seems by by most of his brothers and sisters too.

Looking back from now, it is no surprise anymore for me, why my father treated me like he did. He was not able to understand me and my search for truth, as soon as I was able to read. He wanted me to value how important it is to have a god job. At some time he got a serious alcohol addiction and we suffered from occasional outrages and beatings from him. My brothers and m sister tried to avoid him at all costs in that period. Nevertheless It took me a long time to actually forgive him for the hatred towards me he showed me when he beat me, lying down on the floor, trying to protect me from his kickings, while my mother screaming behind him, trying to hold him back.
Bu my father got back in track, he always had a strong will.

In that time I read thru virtually everything that the municipal library had to offer, down to UFO literature, Dänikens books. I began to doubt everything that was taught to me. Then I discovered eastern philosophies. I turned vegetarian shortly after and started to do Yoga and Zen on my own, later TM. I was about 14 then, and I had long ago stopped talking to my parents at all about what was occupying my mind. My first good meditation experiences were so marvelous that I would have liked to scream it out to everyone, that all their struggle is in vain, they just need to let go and feel how they are connected to everything. I restrained from that, knowing my parents would not understand. It was already difficult to convey to my brothers and sister and my school friends. I wrote poems instead. At the age of 18 I left home and went in to an ashram for about 8 years. This became kind of the family I was actually looking for. Lots of people who spoke the same language then me.
But also this self chosen family had its dark sides and it took me quite a long time to forgive the abusive pattern there. But thats another story.

When I went to the Ashram, my father stopped talking to me for many years. My contact to my parents slowed down to a yearly visit, always hoping that somehow I would encounter some understanding, some loving embrace. Instead my father ignored me and my mother tried to play normal. But upon leaving she always embraced me, crying in my arms, and asking me why I wouldn't look for a normal job and live a normal life. But all I wanted was just acceptance, not accusations. I suffered a lot about that.

Things started to heal when I left the Ashram and tried to live a 'normal' life as it was always asked of me. Of course it went horribly wrong for me. I tried to accept normal life, but it never worked out for me. I actually traded adaptation for love, the love I so longed for. I received a lot of love, sure, but I alienated inside. I felt like living in a cocoon, and I always knew deep inside me, the day will come, I will break the cocoon and everything will explode. Of course it was much more horrible in my imagination as how it then actually turned out to be.

It just happened last year.

I separated from my wife and since then enjoy living alone, again. No more trading for love. I accept myself, and however I may desire to express myself. No more judging and comparing, instead just loving myself in its weak and strong parts.
Since this one year a lot of things have happened. Most noteworthy the relationship with my father and mother has received a great healing. I forgave both of them, forgave myself too. I told both of them that I love them. I am so happy that they are still alive and healthy, so I could say that to them.
I call them regularly now, and not only once or twice a year, with the occasional visit. They feel that I am accepting them as they are, and that I have no remorse left, and they are suddenly opening up to me. They even call me on their own now when they have some news to convey. The never did that before. My father even asked me to write my memoirs. He is deeply interested in me now, although still trying to make it not too obvious. I gave him several articles I wrote. I got no response, but what I hear sometimes from my brother or sister is, that he is deeply interested in meditation and watching documentaries about that in TV.

Life is good to me now, that I am good to me.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Dear All -- I'm still blown away by some of the personal experiences reported on this thread.

I've just had a very valuable conversation with a close friend about this, and everything the thread triggers, and everywhere it takes us.

So here's a brief note. It was never my intention to encourage anyone to reconnect with toxic, dangerous people. You may be best off walking out of the door (as in a toxic marriage) -- and never looking back. Sometimes that's absolutely the right thing to do, and can take its own kind of courage.

The other kind of courage is what it takes to apologize to a loved one many years later, confessing that one has made a mistake.

This is what I'd first been thinking about when I posted the thread -- but then it took on a life of its own. :) (And rightly so, too!)

The problem with families is that you get everything in a bundle. You get old, beloved friends, returning to be with you again. You get sworn, bitter enemies, bent on revenge. And you also get strangers who mean very little, and you wonder why they're there at all. All at the same Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner.

So here's one of many problems that can arise. When one walks away from an entire family -- and someone one feels compelled to, even to save oneself from physical damage or worse -- one leaves behind not only the toxic enemies, but also old, dear friends who may be part of the same family package.

I welcome hearing from anyone who's found themselves wrestling with this dilemma. If that bond is broken, and one then reconnects, one can also find oneself reconnecting with one's own enemies. It's an extremely difficult situation to handle.

[SKAWF]

i did go back.

many years afterwards.

but as soon as i felt that the old troublesome patterns were being re established i started to get really angry.
i'd fought to get myself away from all that....

so what was i doing walking right back into it?

and it wasnt like they had changed at all.

the nearest i got to an apology was my mother putting her arm around my terminally ill step dad,
and she said 'well we all wish we'd have done things differently but......'
and then she looked at him.

it was possibly the worst example of emotional blackmail i had ever seen.

i never really related to my family.

(truth... i reckon i'm one of the second wave that delores cannon speaks of)

years later, after reforming myself, i relate to them even less than i did as a child.

and added to that....... they are all still asleep!

cest la vie

[RunningDeer]

I am 2nd oldest of 8 kids in the family. I took on a lot of responsibility, and protected my siblings. (mentioned in another post) But I chose to make a healthy life decision:

I moved out the day before my 18th birthday with a brown paper bag filled with my clothes and a couple of books. I hitch hiked to the next state over. Within a couple of weeks, I became the sole tenant of my sister’s apartment. It was enough time to find a job working third shift in a rubber mill. I registered for my last year of high school and settled into a brand new life.

No car, no license meant a lot of running home from school to catch some sleep before my 3rd shift job. Zip home for a shower and zip off to school. A couple of months into the job, I got laid off. I swallowed my pride and asked my Mom if I could borrow $100, and I’d pay her back $10 a week as soon as I found another job.

The employment agency sent me to a textile mill for an interview. As soon as the boss found out that I was still in high school, he said no. I told him that if given the chance I’d work for free for two weeks to show him how hard a worker I was. That Friday, I got my first paycheck of $54.

$54 dollars - $30 weekly rent - $10 Mom’s loan = $14 net for groceries and lunch money, and laundry mat, and the occasional “Drake's: Frosted Peanut Butter Creme Funny Bones”.

I was a millionaire.

Over time, I managed to save $100 and went to the dentist down the street. Dr. Lupien was his name. Mrs. Lupien, his wife, was the kind receptionist. I explained to her that I saved up $100 dollars, and would like to make an appointment for $100 worth of work. I was there for at least several hours. Yippie for my one and only experience with gas. As an 18 year old, I had no idea of cost. But I knew they, along with others, were some mighty Angels, I’ve met along the way. I am grateful for All.

I am a millionaire.

What I was back then, I didn’t have the words, or awareness. I was just someone that on some level knew life worked in the direction one sets for herself. No question. No doubt.

P.S. I went on later to earn several advance degrees. Education was only one of my tickets out of a life that I had outgrown.

P.S.S. I never gave up on my family. Though, I have to create lots of space for it to work for me. I keep in contact with them all. Many don't speak to one another. So some holidays, I chose to say home alone. My Mom and Dad, and sister #8 have passed, but they come say hello from time to time.

I am aware of a loosening in my connection to them all. It's a natural distancing because it is my belief in this coming Mother Earth change that we've chosen different pathways.


http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/Foods/funnybones.JPG

[Christine]

I have read every post since Bill began this thread. The story being told is the story of all of us, different variations for sure, some more brutal than others. And the rare family where love and acceptance was expressed freely.

I think the real questions is what is family and why do we hold it as sacred? I believe there are influences here that really require a good honest analysis and open mind.

My story and her (the little girl's) story.

I did not grow up in an openly hostile home, the abuse was subversive with lots of emotional manipulation and entanglements. The needy mom, the out in the world business man dad, brothers fighting. And myself… oldest child, daughter who discovered at two years old she was the wisest being in the family, so I took it all on my shoulders.

My parents fought a lot, cheated on each other, were on again off again in the amount of attention they could spare their children.

One of my earliest deeply etched memories is being afraid, terrified really, probably waking from a nightmare which were frequent in our household. I found my way to my parents room hoping that I would be comforted, I wanted to climb into their bed but was roughly rejected. I think the paradigm of the time was to not spoil your children…. The result was a little girl curled up on the floor shivering and alone. I know I decided from that moment forward I had to be strong enough to make it alone. I learned early that I couldn’t count on anyone else, though I desperately needed to.

And in the inexplicable way of the mind of a child she decided she must be guilty of something and so she took the guilt on herself.

The setting is a common middle class suburb with backyard barbecues and children playing in the streets. Softball games, outings to the beach, camping trips and school. Best friends, entry into other families. The little girl documented it all in her mind. Some things didn’t add up.

Years passed, and this little girl grew up in her suburban world. She experienced sexual abuse at the hands of a close family friend, she never dared say a word, just took it into herself in her guilt and culpability. She was propositioned by her best friends father when she was eleven. She saw the fear in her friends eyes… the little girls said nothing to each other.

At fourteen she decided she did not need her parents anymore, they were barely there anyway. Her friends became her allies as she experimented with drugs, she drifted further away from the family into a world of her own making. But she had no grounding, no safe place and her recklessness took her deeper into the subterranean world of drugs and more abuse.

At nineteen she found herself homeless living on the streets with no home to go back to. She is still not sure where he parents were at this time. She reached out to them on occasion but they never really knew what was happening. Eventually she found herself so distraught, alone and ashamed that taking her own life seemed the only way out. She couldn’t do that though, for six months she struggled back to the surface, back to a semblance of life. Her parents were no where around during this time.

Still not sure of why she was here, always a stranger in a strange land, she started to conform to the expectations around her, took a job and started living again. As they say life goes on, she followed her heart the best she could, found herself making progress and learning, always learning.

Many, many years later a mother herself, having accomplished a full life of friends, successful businesses, a place in the general community and a deeply caring spiritual family. A pinnacle was reached. A striving completed. And then it all started to fall away.

A set of driving questions formed and demanded answers. It plagued her, Who am I? Why am I here? Is this all there is? To say that her world paradigm shattered would be correct. So down into the depths of self, exploration, strange happenings, astral projection, past life recall took over and family, success, friends, business, community all were put to the side.

None of this happened overnight, though it unfolded relatively fast. Daughter was grown, business was going strong with capable staff. A home was built in the country and she was able to dedicate herself to these pursuits. She had no idea what laid before her. She just followed the blazing road she saw open before her.

One of her tenets (or beliefs) which you could argue were right or wrong, was the understanding that the majority of our energy is given to family, to business, to all out worldly pursuits of happiness, contentment, acceptance of others. She started shredding this reality. It was harder than anything she had ever done before. Each relationship she withdrew from put up a fight, inside she doubted, outside she withdrew. Convinced that her cause was noble and necessary she sacrificed again and again. She also believed she was treading a path were few dared go that the sacrifice and difficulty were worthwhile because she was striving toward liberation, freedom and she believed not only for herself. She saw great masses of humanity tied up in these bonds, bondage, the prison without bars. Convinced that she had found a way out she continued her unraveling.

Did she make it, not yet. The chosen path terminated so abruptly that she felt herself cast back into the deepest shadows. Alone, no one, no family, no spiritual family, those she trusted with her life had turned on her. No where to go.

This is the little girl again, who grew up alone. There is nothing quite as frightening, terrifying as confronting our aloneness. Our solitude. There is the solitude of moments sought, and the solitude of our relationship with our Creator. But the feeling of absolute aloneness was the most unsettling thing she had ever experienced.

She questions why she is writing this here, maybe because she needs to acknowledge her human family again. Because on these pages of posts she finds a commonality, a bond of those who have suffered and overcome. This is the blessing of all suffering. When we learn from our mistakes, when we learn from our pain, when we learn from our awakening consciousness, when we share, when we learn from each other…. I find a spiritual family here that transcends locality, race, culture and gender.

What I want to add here at the end of this reckoning of self is that I have reconnected with my family. With my father first, then my mother, my brothers and most importantly my daughter. What I found I returned to were open arms, open hearts and forgiveness.

The greatest gift I have is that no matter what I chose, what I put myself through these people have remained loving me. It is bringing tears to my eyes as I write these words for I know I have been truly blessed over and over in this life.

I know some of you should not reconnect with family members. The stories I read are horrific, you must go and blaze a new trail for them to follow later when they have made all their own mistakes and come to their own lessons. I think this is perhaps the most loving thing you can do.

In my journey I so often was aware that I was called to break patterns, to undo the knots of karma, to go it alone to be free. It is only now in my closing days here on planet earth that I have the freedom to be with my family because I choose it not because it was imposed on me.

[RunningDeer]

Oh, man...Christine....what an uplifting story! Powerful. Encouraging. Gutsy. It's easy to see why you are here at this time. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your Authenticity and Wisdom.

PS This sounds like this post is gooey and thick. (though sincere) So, if I were to rewrite and use one word - Transformational. :wave:

[Christine]

Oh, man...Christine....what an uplifting story! Powerful. Encouraging. Gutsy. It's easy to see why you are here at this time. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your Authenticity and Wisdom.

PS This sounds like this post is gooey and thick. (though sincere) So, if I were to rewrite and use one word - Transformational. :wave:

Thank you! I just read your personal story posted above mine. Guts, wisdom, authenticity... and a wonderful warm open healed heart. And yes transformational. :wave:

[RunningDeer]

Deleted because it's been posted on a few threads now.

[judymoon]

My upbringing has some similarities to Cathy O'Brian. I was terrified of my mom, and disassociated so much around my father that i hardly have any clear memories. My dad died when i was 11. My mom two years ago.

For most of my life i have felt unlovable and unworthy. Several years of therepy really helped me see that those feelings are commen in abused chidren and do not depict the reality of the situation.

However, I find it really hard to be in realtionship with others. I spend most of my time alone and am happiest out in nature. I seem to carry so much grief, I seem to pick up on the pain and suffering in the world and sometimes its overwhelming.

I have been a meditator since i was a teenager. My connection to Spirit (when i am open to it) is the one comfort I have.

This is the conclusion I have come to. Our souls really have no age. You have to incarnate to experience childhood. The more you learn as a soul - the tougher the lessons get. Like going from grade school to high school to college to graduate school. The tougher the childhood, the tougher the curiculum.

Because the the most powerful lessons are the ones learned when you are vulnerable and powerless. The same experiences as an adult would not be as transformational. Forgiveness is not the only lesson, and maybe not even the one you came in to work on.

Enduring a life where you feel cut off from the comfort of connection, and somehow keeping your heart open gives your soul a strength and couage and compassion you would be hardpressed to learn another way. Forgiving the unforgivable blows your heart chakra wide open and shots a beam of light that can never be put out.

This is spiritual warrior stuff, and sometimes its so grueling, people break and don't recover. And thats a different course in itself.

If reincarnation is true, then we have all had a slew of lives, including experiencing the dark side. If you had a brutal childhood, you are never going to be 'normal' , you will not fit in with the people who are doing 'normal' because you are not even taking that curiculum. You are taking one of those courses where you get dropped in a dangerous situation and left to survive on your wits. The lessons and growth wisdom acquired will be unique to your situation. Give yourself credit for surviving at all.

LOVE is waiting for all of us when we leave the physical. Being seperated from that LOVE is the hardest task. If all you want to do is get off the planet, then you're not done :)

This is for the damaged ones out there....you're really not alone. There are many of us, and if even one of us opens the heart chakra with absolutely no reason to, it raises all of our vibration. Don't give up.

[Fred Steeves]

You know something? I'm thinking this thread demonstrates that the human Spirit is much harder to actually break, than a cursory glance may reveal.

[M6*]

Dear Delfine.
Hang in there. Believe in yourself....and try to believe the best is yet to come!!
You are ahead of me already. I have never yet managed the courage to apply to Carol Clark for a reading!
Have a wonderful day TODAY, and know that you are blessed here on Avalon!
Sincerely, M6*

[Free Will]

"So here's one of many problems that can arise. When one walks away from an entire family -- and someone one feels compelled to, even to save oneself from physical damage or worse -- one leaves behind not only the toxic enemies, but also old, dear friends who may be part of the same family package.

I welcome hearing from anyone who's found themselves wrestling with this dilemma." quote from Bill..

This thread really hurts my heart and is veritably intense..it stirred up so much in me i requested to be 'unsubscribed' just a few hours ago, thinking for no good reason at all that my heart would feel better if i left here too..and also..i was/am afraid i might share some of what i have been through in this regard, and afraid of the possible consequences of sharing such a thing..anyway..then i saw this post from Bill, and for some reason it made me want to stay..so i just asked if it is ok that i not be 'unsubscribed' ..that's all i got for now.

Have to keep fighting 'the fear'.

[judymoon]

WhiteCrowBlackDeer.....my heart is hurting for you! I wrap you in that special love for mothers-who-lose-children and let it pour through me into you. So hard to be the ones continuing on. Your post was a beautiful memorial/rememberence of your son. Sometimes we pack a lot into a few years and then its time to go home.

[sandy]

Bill, Thank you for creating this Thread as it is absolutely Wonderful :)

It certainly has been a trip down memory lane and lots of resonating with abusive childhoods. Sharing one's pain is not easy and takes great courage to walk through to the other side. For me the fear of getting in touch with my pain was so great I avoided it until I was 32 and when I could see that I was doing to my son what was done to me I was horrified and suicidal. It was either blow my brains out or change the generational patterning I was emulating. I first had to stare down and own my own ugly behavior and stop blaming and take responsibility for what I had become. Although I've moved on from the 12 step program I'm grateful to Bill who founded it as it gave me the steps to begin a change process that is still in effect today :)

I too have a family that has not changed and both my parents have passed in the last 4 years. This has broken the family dynamics of life centered around my folks and the road to coming back together as respectful, loving siblings (5) has finally begun. I have learned that they hurt too and that their perceptions of our childhood are just as painful as mine in many ways even though our experiences were different as far as family dynamics goes. I was the oldest girl, so do relate to WCBD when it comes to responsibility and left home with a paper bag of clothes at age 16 to become a live in babysitter/housekeeper for an abusive couple with family of 5 children. ( just exactly what i had left :)...go figure)

I got to spend time with my only 3 grand children for the first time in 3 years as they were allowed to stay with me for 4 days. I was very much in their lives until 3 years ago and the funny thing, even though they are beautiful young teenagers now, it was just like we had never been apart. I also had a nice visit with my only child Shane who brought them at their request. He is a very successful Dad and Business man who I have also been estranged from the past 3-4 years. I'm sure he has his own demons and pain from his early childhood (he was 12 when I sobered up) but has refused to go to counseling with me to deal with me or his childhood. I have respected him and his life in the interim and spent too many years trying to make up for it all as in the end it is his journey and I can't undo what was done.Thus I finally had to walk away from him and how he treats me too :( and it was the saddest day of my life as he was the only reason I sobered up in the first place. My door has always been open to him and his family since and this summer was when he walked back in if only for a short visit himself.

It is a beginning and I am grateful! However, I continue to change as in walking away I had finally found the courage to begin to love me and value myself in the ways that I do others since sobering up over 30 years ago. I went back to school having only a grade 9 education and became a Social Worker and Life Skills Coach among other Trainings to help others with a mindset that I wanted to pay back my son and society for all my wrongs. It took till I was almost 62 years old to truly start LOVING me and my wounded "little girl" unconditionally and allowing me to be me and not look for my value in what others thought or believed about me, even though I have been through lots of therapy.

What I have learned is to have boundaries for my self and spirit and now have implemented those boundaries in a loving way for myself and in presenting them to others. When my siblings step over those boundaries or are trying to I disengage emotionally and detach with love and it works every time :) I work to be aware of their boundaries also and if I'm getting to close to what they hold dear and I don't believe in anymore I back away with respect and disengage. I pray my son coming back into my life this summer will continue as I LOVE him dearly and my wonderful daughter-in-law and grand daughters too!! Loving boundaries are important in dysfunctional families and having and being aware of and respecting others really helps to break the cycles of pain that are mistaken for LOVE.

I so want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread for your COURAGE to own and share your pain and LOVE for others to grow from. Without your courage there would be know sharing of the wisdom you have gained as a result. There are many old souls on this thread leading the way by telling their stories.

Your stories are my story. It is not lost by me that we are ONE!!!

[RunningDeer]

WhiteCrowBlackDeer.....my heart is hurting for you! I wrap you in that special love for mothers-who-lose-children and let it pour through me into you. So hard to be the ones continuing on. Your post was a beautiful memorial/rememberence of your son. Sometimes we pack a lot into a few years and then its time to go home.

Dear JudyMoon,
Thank you for your Loving Light healing and message.

And I agree with your statement, "Sometimes we pack a lot into a few years and then its time to go home." I say that Michael did more in his short life than many twice/three times his years.

With heart,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

I also thank everyone for the courage to share. To my way of thinking, You are all True Warriors! :wave:

[RunningDeer]

"So here's one of many problems that can arise. When one walks away from an entire family -- and someone one feels compelled to, even to save oneself from physical damage or worse -- one leaves behind not only the toxic enemies, but also old, dear friends who may be part of the same family package.

I welcome hearing from anyone who's found themselves wrestling with this dilemma." quote from Bill..

This thread really hurts my heart and is veritably intense..it stirred up so much in me i requested to be 'unsubscribed' just a few hours ago, thinking for no good reason at all that my heart would feel better if i left here too..and also..i was/am afraid i might share some of what i have been through in this regard, and afraid of the possible consequences of sharing such a thing..anyway..then i saw this post from Bill, and for some reason it made me want to stay..so i just asked if it is ok that i not be 'unsubscribed' ..that's all i got for now.

Have to keep fighting 'the fear'.

Hi Free Will,

I'm glad you chose to stay. I signed on in February and left a couple of times, one of which I unsubscribed. I felt so vulnerable each time I put my thoughts and heart out there. Gulp and big GULP. While I was unsubscribed, I had a chance to view many threads in stealth mode. It felt safer for me. I realized that there were different energies in the threads. With some, I still hold my breath when I push the reply button. (:secret: Shhh, our secret.) Not because of the folk on the forum, it's me still stretching in courage to share myself without the fear of ridicule, i.e. illusionary fear only. This is where I insert: "A work in progress." http://forums.newtorrents.info/style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif One thing I would never have imagined six months ago was that I'd consider the folks here in the "Land of Avalon" to be my extended family.

One of the many safe places to play is on the "Here and Now (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening/page878)" thread. It's diverse. You can share whatever you want. Sometimes I don't want to post, so I stay in stealth mode while I read what others have to say. I've expanded my way of seeing things and am grateful for the changes in me.

Strange as this may sound, I'm standing taller these days.

With heart,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer :wave:
Oh, and Free Will, here are some "glad you stayed" balloons. http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/balloons-smiley.gif?1292867552


Have to keep fighting 'the fear'.
P.S. Your quote is similar to mine. I also add that fear is love turned inside out. Fear just needs an upgrade in it's GPS system. http://www.pic4ever.com/images/bliss.gif

[Christine]

"So here's one of many problems that can arise. When one walks away from an entire family -- and someone one feels compelled to, even to save oneself from physical damage or worse -- one leaves behind not only the toxic enemies, but also old, dear friends who may be part of the same family package.

I welcome hearing from anyone who's found themselves wrestling with this dilemma." quote from Bill..

This thread really hurts my heart and is veritably intense..it stirred up so much in me i requested to be 'unsubscribed' just a few hours ago, thinking for no good reason at all that my heart would feel better if i left here too..and also..i was/am afraid i might share some of what i have been through in this regard, and afraid of the possible consequences of sharing such a thing..anyway..then i saw this post from Bill, and for some reason it made me want to stay..so i just asked if it is ok that i not be 'unsubscribed' ..that's all i got for now.

Have to keep fighting 'the fear'.


Hello Free Will,

I am so glad you decided to stay. Every time you make a choice to stand up to fear you defeat it. Courage and a vulnerable heart. Hard to hold those two together but these are the badges of a spiritual warrior.

I can truly say to you that there is nothing that you have experienced, no matter how horrible it seems, that most of us here on Avalon and elsewhere would not understand.

I will join WCBD in celebrating your victory today... :grouphug:

Christine

[astrid]

I was one that walked away from everyone, actually i did it twice,
once with my family, and again with a whole network of friends.
Both times were hard choices, but i choose my sanity over staying.

And frankly i have grown and grown and grown since i left.
But there comes a time when you need to resolve that which is unresolved.

You see you can walk out of a situation, but if things are unresolved they can still have
a hold on you, energetically, psychologically, and can still effect your life in small or larger ways.
Ie.. you avoid things that are reminders, like certain types of people.. triggers.. etc..

The big secret here is that its all about you and not about them.
you can change how you feel about a situation, and that is the key...
Even though you have removed yourself from the said group,
you most likely will still feel those feelings. So therefore its still with you,
this is key.. as understanding that these are your emotions, bring the power back into your hands...
And thus you can work to shift how you feel about a certain person, situation...
so it's no longer in your energy field.

Also when you understand that we select our families for very particular lessons , it puts a whole
new spin on things. Think of it like they all have their roles to play, to trigger certain aspects so that
you can work through those issues and grow. For me that understanding was critical to move out of the
victim stance, of "them" doing something to me..
It comes down to gaining more tools to respond in new and better ways to the environment as it
presents itself. So next time a repeat event happens.. and it does over and over, until we get it,
we pick a new way of responding..

So yes.. i walked out, with very few skills, frankly, due to my whole linage of not being well
equiped themselves, and set out to gain those skills for myself. Which i have done, and am
continuing to do.. so that on dealing now with the same issues, i respond in new and much
healthier ways. Same event, totally different outcome..

It's kind of like re- parenting yourself, in a way....
And when we heal our selves we can then go back and effect HUGE healing
for the whole group, that is the ultimate in healing,

Like i have an ex boyfriend who was very abusive, now we are friends and he
comes to me for healing work, so the whole situation was completely turned
around, but yes it took a long time , and was hard work. BUT as a result i am
a totally different human being, as is he.

[astrid]

And to add to this.. the place i started was with all this, was in processing my
emotions how i felt about things, i was totally overwhelmed to the point that
i was paralysed, and in constant fear. To me my experience of the world had
not been a friendly and safe place,
so that was the belief i was viewing everything through, so of course it was
all i was seeing..

That was my starting place, finding that courage to work through these feeling
rather than running, hiding and denying them. The thing is, when you withdraw
from everyone and you are still feeling like crap, it kind of has to be about you
then.. lol, you get the the point where you have to face yourself with no
distractions.

Without that self honesty its kind of not possible to get to the root of things.
The next step for me was to stop this self berating, and treat myself as though i
was my own best friend. This type of deep work does require , in my experience,
to treat yourself with the utmost compassion and kindness.
For that i established a witness position, where i was being a compassionate
observer to my life, so that i could then think and act more clearly, and not
through the emotionally charged lens, that had been my entire life until that point.
I still do this to this day, its especially useful in helping others and not getting
caught up in drama.

These types of shifts in perspectives, and that's really all they are, are the sorts
of things that can shift a life around in an instant, and i must add, are vital tools
leading into this time we are all in. Detached compassion for me is a must.

But the bottom line here is really to see it all as our evolution,
first on that individual, more personal level, then as part of the group
then as helping with the collective.

All things being holographic, heal yourself, and you can heal the world,
it's that simple.

[deridan]

Bill, you the one who knows how to excess past lives. From what I understand, it took some indepth training in techniques only available to those who have been training in that[?] new age religion.
I don't think i have enough spiritual space on my plate for such an exercise ....(if the world ends up tanking in 2014, i would not have even had enough time then to have what these call a normal life)
...though perhaps, this is my suggestion. Perhaps you can come up with your own short course
(from astrology, I've had a birth moon in Cancer explain everything from apparent coldness in romantic relations, to a apparent past life which i lived very hard but had come to zero fruition)

[nomadguy]

Bill, you the one who knows how to excess past lives. From what I understand, it took some indepth training in techniques only available to those who have been training in that[?] new age religion.
I don't think i have enough spiritual space on my plate for such an exercise ....(if the world ends up tanking in 2014, i would not have even had enough time then to have what these call a normal life)
...though perhaps, this is my suggestion. Perhaps you can come up with your own short course
(from astrology, I've had a birth moon in Cancer explain everything from apparent coldness in romantic relations, to a apparent past life which i lived very hard but had come to zero fruition)


Many opinions may vary on the subject,
however I feel you can take a small 10-20 minute pause before you sleep each night to set this in motion.
Ask yourself a question then fall off to sleep. It's that simple.
(I got this technique from reading Edgar Cayce's book on Dreams.)

or to give you an example,

For a brief moment imagine in your own mind,
What will 2014 be like?..
Then ask yourself,
What would I like 2014 to be like with the best possible outcome?
(I find this to be a great tool, it helps me reset my own intentions)

Also I agree and would like to hear about any techniques for learning of our past lives as well.

I think some of our karmic battles are caused by this and our families are a big part of it. It is almost like we are in the same karmic battle only with the roles switched around. For example some of my family members say that the last time we were together here(earth-plane) I was dad -or the eldest.
Adding that in the last go round there may have been violence, and so this time I am doing my best to keep it civil. It is hard to stand your ground sometimes.
So with that being said I would like to add this small piece of advice,

"Follow your heart and always trust your gut"

Carry On ~ :yo:

[Meesh]

Powerful! This discussion is so powerful!

After the death of my mother-in-law, about 9 years ago, my husband and I took a 2 year “vacation” from his family, a temporary breather to sort things out and heal. During that time, I had a lucid dream where my sister-in-law told me: “You promised me that you wouldn’t leave me this time.” Well, that certainly caught my attention in a hurry!

This experience confirmed what I’ve always felt—that we choose our families before we are born--And that we choose them from a position of strength. Unfortunately, once we actually incarnate, we soon forget how strong we are, and why we chose as we did. Well, at least until we begin to wake up.

[spiritwind]

I used to not even be able to talk about my early life, parental figures, and upbringing without getting all emotional and teary eyed. I guess sometimes I still do but for entirely different reasons now. I was in and out of foster homes and given up for adoption to a family of Italian farming Jehovah’s Witnesses. My adopted father was physically abusive and they were all emotionally abusive. I had a chip on my shoulder as big as the state of Texas growing up and was basically just plain pissed for a very long time. I never knew my biological father. I only heard he was short, Jewish, wore glasses, was older than my mother, and was an attorney in the Brentwood, CA area. Not much to go on. All of them have passed away now. I was able to go back and visit my adopted mother before the brain tumor got so bad she didn’t know who I was anymore. It was great because I really wanted her to know, if not by actual words, at least energetically, that I was okay. I turned out alright despite everyone’s rather grim expectations of me and I wanted her to know that I have no regrets. You could see the intense emotion in her face when she answered the door and, with a choked up voice, said she thought maybe I was dead. Wow. And here I was with my teenage daughter and husband and looking very happy with my life. I assured her that I was not only alive but doing very well. Not maybe financially very successful, but in every other way that matters I had done the work and healed. My biological mother I have made peace with too. I see her for the strong warrior woman she was who herself had not been nurtured and didn’t have a clue. Over a 2 year period in the 90’s she slowly deteriorated due to Lou Gehrig disease and taught me so much about how to die gracefully and courageously I will be forever grateful. And I could go on. I also have a sister who I have had to wait over 10 years to see some sign that she is now ready to move on from her perceived hurts of the past and maybe we’ll have a semblance of a relationship again. And yes, there are some people who have been so toxic for me that I have had to love them from a distance while working on my own ability to let go of expectations and detach. My heart goes out to all who still have to live without any sign of resolution in regards to biological family members. It is also heartwarming to see the sometimes miraculous healing that can occur when one takes advantage of the “time being right” and goes for it. Now I just need to get my butt in gear and call my other sister. There is nothing more exciting to me than seeing love in action. Thanks to all who have had the courage to share their stories here. They have all touched me. I especially want to thank you WCBD for what you shared about losing your son. I have a 30 year old son who is very troubled, alot of problems, and I can't help but worry and feel so powerless everyday. It's a constant process for me to just love him, try not to judge. Still so much to learn...

[RunningDeer]

"I especially want to thank you WCBD for what you shared about losing your son. I have a 30 year old son who is very troubled, alot of problems, and I can't help but worry and feel so powerless everyday. It's a constant process for me to just love him, try not to judge. Still so much to learn..."

Thank you, SpiritWind. While reading about your life experiences, I can't help but think that you are one of the Spirit Warriors that signed on for this exciting era of transformation.

Michael's been my greatest Teacher in love, compassion, forgiveness, patience, trust, working through & letting go of darker emotions, patience, forgiveness... Oops, I mentioned those last two already, but they deserve a double booking. :wave:

[bogeyman]

I look at my experience like this: There is a tree, and a car hits that tree and it leaves damage, in time these scars are covered by new growth until the scars only become a memory.

[deridan]

just to share a bit of a story as everyone has done,
i had a father, with whom i could not share an adult life, very sad that part cause the 20year old only comes to that realization of need once the child self is left behind.
its said that fathers raise there sons, and sons raise there fathers into continuum
i apparently share many genetic temprements with my grandfather. I understand that some of my harder upbringing was my fathers part of fortifying me against errors he had seen his father commit.
(there is no time or understanding to communicate this accurately, esp. for a child, so some things need to be done,..damn what is thought then, but afterward the appreciation flows);
too, missed the prior moments to having said goodbye to my father,
but believe a communication or vibrational 'send set' was given between us.

always in this life i have had the discipline of being able to observe a system, but just being to far outside it to benefit. Often feel vehement,
then too, I've discovered from Numerology that I have a Zero Karmic Number, so the psychological states i need to be involved in is minimal, ..so somehow i know i can spend time in my spirit defining a here-after. Though I am a journeyer of the human soul and will learn everything now

[Bhusunda]

... you get the the point where you have to face yourself with no
distractions.

Without that self honesty its kind of not possible to get to the root of things.
The next step for me was to stop this self berating, and treat myself as though i
was my own best friend. This type of deep work does require , in my experience,
to treat yourself with the utmost compassion and kindness.
For that i established a witness position, where i was being a compassionate
observer to my life, so that i could then think and act more clearly, and not
through the emotionally charged lens, that had been my entire life until that point.
I still do this to this day, its especially useful in helping others and not getting
caught up in drama.

I strongly resonate with this, astrid!
I myself need a lot of protection, loneliness and compassion for myself in order to be able to feel the tenderness inside me and stay in there, and keep it strong.
Living among too many people for a too long period gets me lost quickly.
Living alone, I have to face my fears and tears, but I also feel at peace with myself.
There is no wish to run away from me anymore, whatever I feel. The fear about myself is slowly vanishing.
There is nothing inside me that needs to be changed in order to be loved by me.
Thanks for reminding me!
:-)

[4evrneo]

Fantastic topic ! to which I have alot of experience. As an abused and neglected child, I grew up much of the time in my head and in my dreams. Although I was very shy for many years, I have had the profound experience a few years ago of forgiveness and the realization that those events in my life have led me to be the strong and compassionate woman I am today. I am actually grateful for those experiences now, out of suffering came great strength and love.

[Fred Steeves]

Fantastic topic ! to which I have alot of experience. As an abused and neglected child, I grew up much of the time in my head and in my dreams. Although I was very shy for many years, I have had the profound experience a few years ago of forgiveness and the realization that those events in my life have led me to be the strong and compassionate woman I am today. I am actually grateful for those experiences now, out of suffering came great strength and love.

My wife was not abused per say, but certainly neglected. Spent a great deal of her precious childhood not out playing with other kids, but banished to her room. Reading was her great escape. I think that sort of thing either destroys a person, or eventually empowers them.

You should see the way she brightens people's day at the nursing home where her 100 year old grandmother still resides after 8 years. Most people who live in these places are the elderly version of keeping the kid in their room, and out of the way. It can be so heartbreaking...She never visits there without some kind of treat like Animal Crackers or something to pass out to each resident, along with a happy comment and a sweet smile. http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

That's just one of the ways she's found to "pay back" the big mean world for her lost childhood. And by the way, you should see the way the faces on the old folks light up as she approaches. Priceless!

Cheers,
Fred

[Spiral]

What an amazing thread, it really shows how diverse human experience can be !

Personally, my family life was like growing up in a sensory deprivation tank.

The physical people are there, mother, father, sybs, but they are like empty shells, "the lights on but there's no one at home"

I only wish they had been violent or abusive, at least it would have validated my existence !

I did go through a phase of thinking they were narcissistic, but that diagnosis doesn't go any where near far enough, I often wonder about my mother particularly; who was / is she really ?

The upshot of having parents with whom no relationship is possible is that I have to live without relationships, as I never developed the things you need to do so. (very complex & much misunderstood field)

So, foruming it is .

[RunningDeer]

"Power of One"

No words needed... (If you are pressed for time then jump to 2:48. Special delivery for You.)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQLj_JcaZcM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQLj_JcaZcM

[bluestflame]

we're living in a time where there is a heightened sensativity coming out in people around the world , it's a healing thing , a time for release of things that consume our energy

from the inside out


s many great posts on this thread , so much to be thankful for , rather than me thanking every post i'd like to thank in advance ( i have a sore click finger from thanking ) i'll get to them eventually

[Salamanda555]

Got the tears going slightly from that story Bill. Thanks for sharing that.

Its never to late to forgive, Its never to late to say your sorry, Its never to late to let it go, Its never to late to say I love You, and just when you thought it was too late, you find Its never to late.

As i was growing up in my teenage rebelious years me and my Dad were constantly butting heads. We didnt get along with each other during those adolescent stages. When i turned 18 my Dad was dying in the hospital from cancer, but before he died i had the chance to finally tell him I Love You, he responded I Love You too son. He passed on the next day.

Its never too late.



Awesome WhiteFeather... I think you encapsulated the entire point and purpose of the thread right there.

Respect.

Kia Kaha.

[jimisroom]

This is probably one of the prime reasons I joined this forum since its refurbishment.

I'm a starseed who was raised in a very military and corporate family. My experience, especially those involving "waking up", has almost completely alienated me from some close to me.


If anyone has any advice as to how to maintain a balance here, I would really appreciate it.

[Salamanda555]

Thanks for this beautiful post Bill. Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences, I had to shed some tears reading so far, reminding me of my own problems with my parents and how it is healing now.

My parents have been both refugee kids fleeing from East Prussia and Silesia from the Russians at the end of the second world war. The whole german after-war generation is kind of traumatized by this. They were fighting with hunger, rape and survival. We only found out after the death of my grandma some years ago, that one of her kids, a very beloved aunt of us, was actually the offspring of such a rape. My grandma never told anyone and treated her as if it has been the child of her husband, who died in the war, exploding with a truck-full of ammunition. My father grew up with a lot of brothers and sisters on a farm. It was a tough life as he said, and the only fondness he seemed to have was the memory of his father who died shortly after the war, his mother was never loved by my father, and it seems by by most of his brothers and sisters too.

Since this one year a lot of things have happened. Most noteworthy the relationship with my father and mother has received a great healing. I forgave both of them, forgave myself too. I told both of them that I love them. I am so happy that they are still alive and healthy, so I could say that to them.
I call them regularly now, and not only once or twice a year, with the occasional visit. They feel that I am accepting them as they are, and that I have no remorse left, and they are suddenly opening up to me. They even call me on their own now when they have some news to convey. The never did that before. My father even asked me to write my memoirs. He is deeply interested in me now, although still trying to make it not too obvious. I gave him several articles I wrote. I got no response, but what I hear sometimes from my brother or sister is, that he is deeply interested in meditation and watching documentaries about that in TV.

Life is good to me now, that I am good to me.

That's such as awesome awesome story Bhusunda... the smile started growing right across my face, as I got further into the final paragraphs and reading about what you're hearing back through brother and sister about your Dad's obvious interest in what you do and who you are. very cool :cool:

[Bing Lalo]

Dear Bill and all the Avalon people, you see 2 days ago I wrote here my expience, now I come again because yesterday my dad send me his first email in several months. I think his Ego is coming down, and he begings to need to come back to life again which is allways nice. In my opinion when this kind of things happen the best to do is let them some space and talk to them with the mind, in the other side of life, that helps a lot and prepare the road for the reconciliation. Which is importan is that you must to leave the door open, so that way the ignorance and the Egos will recognize the truht and when that happen they will come back to the road of love. And LOVE is the only road that can give you back the happiness.

Best to all and be happy no matter what.... :-)

[bluestflame]

yes sometimes to do the energy work first ,. to "work the space" between you first , then the words will come more easily

[WHOMADEGOD]

Thanks Bill, wonderful post!

A week and a half ago I had the opportunity to get my younger brother alone as I rarely see him amymore, and I looked him squarely in the eyes and apologised for all the hurt I had caused him over the course of our lives and that I loved him.

We both hugged and shed a tear and no more neede to be said.

Sometimes even when we still communicate regularly, we still need to find the courage to heal the hurt.

This was incredibly cathartic and surprisingly easy once I had actually said it, and to think I had been wanting to say it for years, such a fool....

Blessings

Mark

[Free Will]

Holy!! Thank you WCBD so very much, and Christine, and all...GULP.

Thank you everyone for adding your voice and or presence here on this thread, and thank you Bill for Intuiting it and holding the space just so ..

Each contribution is of great value and I certainly find courage to be seriously contagious and I love to witness it, even if it’s born from heart wrenching situations, and because of that. Courage makes me want to be courageous.

Sorry about my strange writing etc..when I’m out of sorts I have a hard time with sentences and stuff like that..with quoting properly, responding etc..anyway..

I have recently passed through the anniversary date of my adoptive fathers death, he passed away not many years ago.

To preserve my already not well at the time, well being, i did not, could not, attend his funeral. Though I had just come to forgive him in my heart, a miracle. I would have loved to gather with safe people for this, I had none, so..i gathered myself the best I could, and still am.

This forgiveness of my fathers abuses happened after much work and intention for many years (while having next to no contact), and became a really true and palpable feeling in my heart..practically in synchronicity with when he died most suddenly.. and before I had the chance to communicate with him from my new found compassion for him (and still fear)..i had only seen him a very few strained and painful times in 20 years, and not very recently before he passed..

I could not , can not be near the rest of my family..(yet..?.)..nor do they welcome me. It’s ok. Well, it doesn’t always feel ok at all actually, but still, it is. It’s ok. It has to be the way it is i suppose.

And so I move more or less forward day by day with my desires to reach total forgiveness with the rest of them, and with myself. I am not sure if I will physically re-connect with any of them again. My level of alienation since my fathers transition has grown totally..

I expect to forgive everyone, i'm on it..and i expect miracles.. they do happen..

Miracles happen!

Thank you for hearing me.

[RunningDeer]

Holy!! Thank you WCBD so very much, and Christine, and all...GULP.

And so I move more or less forward day by day with my desires to reach total forgiveness with the rest of them, and with myself. I am not sure if I will physically re-connect with any of them again. My level of alienation since my fathers transition has grown totally..

I expect to forgive everyone, i'm on it..and i expect miracles.. they do happen..

Miracles happen!

Thank you for hearing me.


“And so I move more or less forward day by day with my desires to reach total forgiveness with the rest of them, and with myself.”

Hi Free Will,

http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smiley_faces/biker-smiley-face.gif (http://emoticoner.com) Just popped in to thank you for sharing.

Forgive yourself. Good goal. Attainable goal even without a miracle. xo

PS In my world, miracles happen all the time. I don't even call them miracles any more. Tee.

.................................Going, going, gone... .................................http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smiley_faces/biker-smiley-face.gif (http://emoticoner.com)

[Craig]

I don't have anything to contribute to this amazing thread, but I just have to say thank you to all posters, thank you for your courage and strength, and thank you for signing up for such a journey, you have my utmost respect. I am not much of an emotional person but I want you to know if you need a hug you have one from me whenever and whereever it is needed. When I look at my daughter even when she is trying my patience I still have that love that should be mandatory to all children from their parents and it pains me to know that there are those out there that haven't experienced it.

For those that have broken free and moved on you are far stronger than I. Again thank you so much you have left a mark with me and for that I am thankful.

[Rocky_Shorz]

hey Mods, thanks for not Free'n Will

I think he understands already what an incredible group he has become a part of...

sure we have our moments where best friends are disagreeing on subjects, but then a thread like this happens, and you can just see the glow from everyone involved...

makes me proud to be part of this family...

and it all started with a hat...

[vilcabamba]

As a child, I was convinced as I could be, that being born to this family is an unexplained mistake, all five family members are greatly different from one another, in characteristics, in expressivness and in vibrations, and I did not feel that I belonged there. Both my parents, so cought up with their own demons, scratches, irritations, childhood traumas (My mother, a holocaust survivor) and are unconsciousness beings, could not understand a sensitive child. The set was one of a constant anger, disrespect, extreme ego, unfaithfulness, guilt accusations and very low vibration. There was nowhere to run... The one word that I clearly remember that was rolling in my head was ' harmony', at age 8-9 I don't quite know how I was familiar with this word, but i desperately needed it.

Hi Limor -
I wanted to respond to your message. I am ALSO from a family of holocaust survivors. My grandma and grandpa were in Aushwitz and later survived and had my mom. I grew up with the guilt of knowing that my mom's brothers died in the gas chambers and that was used to propagandize me into the religious thing.
My parents could NOT understand my "highly sensitive personality". And they were told it was a disorder that was a disease. My mom used to read books on the highly sensitive person.

I suffered much grief as a child and still do from the energy that they beamed at me. I would beg and plead with my mom and dad to please stop acting the way they were to me - angry, disapproving, hateful. I now call it "reptilian energy". i for the life of me have tried to figure out how and why i was born to holocaust survivor family, that they themselves still have that low vibrational energy that caused the holocaust to happen in the first place. I always say, the holocaust could not have happened if the everyday german civilians didn't go along with it.

I was very confused growing up as my parents were beaming so much hate towards me and i felt like i was dying inside. My heart couldn't take it and i felt suicidal since a teenager because of them. I know i'm an Indigo and i am very sensitive to energy and i can feel thoughts and feelings of others. I have all the indigo characteristics..including standing up to those who do wrong..including my family or anyone. I am a warrior, but my heart bleeds from the cruelty and injustice in this world.

When i woke up several years ago i got very ill while trying to detoxify my body of all the crap that we are exposed to. I was asleep until age 36. Then i was kicked in the Arse to wake up. Got very ill and almost died from respiratory system becoming paralyzed. i had almost died but found someone in Los Angeles that saved my life, a whistleblower who diagnosed me as having those fibers from the chemtrails stuck in my lungs and throat. I spent a year hovering on death. During that time, i called my mom and my brothers for support. i told them about the chemtrails and the illuminati. The same family who propagandized me about the holocaust and judiasm..turned their back on me and poo pood me as if i was nuts.

I was hovering close to death many nights praying for my family to wake up and be there for me. I would call me mom and she would get angry at me and say as i suffocated in an angry sadistic voice.."there are happy people out there, why can't you be happy"..as i struggled to breath from these chemtrail fibers that had infiltrated and was paralyzing my breathing. I have had to stay with her as i have had a hard time recovering, and it's almost as if she's trying to kill me with cruelty. I have been very ill for the past five years, as the chemtrail fibers have been hard to detox even with thousands of dollars of equipment. I ask my mom how come my brothers could turn their backs on me and never respond to my emails or call me in five years after i tried to send them videos about chemtrails etc. She says "well, they have other things to worry about". i say, "when the govt tries to kill your family member, you don't turn your back, that's what they did in Germany". And my mom just stands there like a zombie without saying anything. I have had many arguments with her, how can she pretend like nothing is going on and refuse to discuss anything like the chemtrails etc, when i am seriously injured. Everytime i tried to bring it up she turns into a zombie that cannot talk and sometimes if she's in a lying position she falls asleep as i'm begging her to wake up. It's like she's possessed like a zombie demon.

I don't get it. My mom spent her time getting her apartment redecorated as i was across the country suffocating from the chemtrail poisons that almost killed me and to this day has been sickening me five years later. My mom says because she gave me money to live then that enough. She doesn't understand that her Apathy is killing me inside. to know that someone could harm me and no one cares, the doctor's turn on you, society turns on you. Just like in Nazi Germany with my family that were murdered. My own family has the same apathy.

I call my mom the "nazi" woman and tell her that she's the same person that turned on the people in nazi germany. I tell her her energy is a reincarnated "nazi" soldier that was born into the family that he (my mom has male energy) destroyed in the holocaust. And i'm a sensitive indigo and it's almost as if she's possessed by a reptilian demon who's trying to energetically kill me. My brothers never responded to any of my emails after five years..showing them what's going on in the world.

The same family that were born to holocaust survivors would do the same thing as the German's and turn on their own family member. My mom says that she did not turn on me b/c she gave me money, but i tell her money is not love. Love is an energy, and i never felt any of that energy from anyone in my family. My mom says well i gave you money (since i have been sick) and i cannot get her to understand that her Apathy about what i have been going through is what is killing me. And that it doesn't matter if she give me money, b/c my heart is breaking inside and i haven't been able to recover my health because of my poor immune system combined with the NWO poisons that i was exposed to somehow. My mom is dissapointed that i'm 41 and never been married, it doesn't matter if i've been ill for five years fighting for my life b/c of this intentional poisoning. I'm a dissapointment and therefore she doesn't show any energetic love b/c i have not followed her blueprint and society's blueprint. And i can feel that energy very clearly.

I have had much relief from my family grief from the knowledge i gained on this website. Bill and Kerry have changed my life. I now know that those of use who are awake must be on a soul level from higher dimensional planets, as those that are asleep are so radically different in their hearts and souls. It has given me an answer to the life long question of why why why? Why am i so sensitive when others are not. Why was i born to holocaust survivors that act in the same abrasive, non caring manner (although they would never physically hurt someone) they would turn their backs as others suffered. After reading Edgar Caycee's work i think sometimes those who do wrong (nazi's) are born into what they hated (a jew). I have a strong feeling that i was born to a mom who was a male nazi in her past life ..i feel the energy of this very strongly. I am an indigo and my work on this planet that i cannot mention on this thread, has been stalled due to her reptilian energy..but it has not stopped me. And i believe this is why i was born to this person..or why a reptilian energy has taken over her and my father's body. I have worked with a whistleblower who has had several assassination attempts on his life, and his family situation with his living siblings is the same - some reptilian energy has taken over to try to impede his work. I don't really know this for certain..but it's one of the thoughts that i have. Who really knows for sure.

But the only thing that has kept me going is the knowledge of all this wonderful blissful information that the whistleblowers like Bob Dean and the rest put out. That we are here only temporarily (THANK G-D!!!!!). And that there are trillions of other places in the multiverse to live including the Pleiades that have higher sensitive beings..and the messages from Andromeda too! I feel so blissful knowing that maybe maybe some of us are from there. and here lies the reptilian brained species and someday i can go home. My only job now is to figure out how to truly forgive those family members that hurt my heart so bad. I can't do it, but i know know i need to do it soon.

Thanks bill for this thread. Seeing that so many people have problems with their families makes me not feel so alone. If other people can survive the heartbreak of this, then so can i. Even though sometimes the pain of this is so excruciating that i want to go home asap. I still long for the days when i can live in a world where i'm surrounded by sensitives. I actually would spend many nights outside walking my dog, begging to know that the andromedans and pleiadians are really here. And then the orbs started appearing regulary. Shooting flashes of lights in the sky, and it was so exciting. Liquid light streaming downward almost on top of my apartment building. One afternoon a big orb turned bright pink and flashed itself in front of me and my clueless family. My family turned away and didn't even look as i was happily trying to get them to see it. They are so 3D. Another night a big green and orange fire ball fell from the sky, and then the next day i went outside and asked what i saw the night before, and another ball of light fell from the sky. Now that i have had to stay with my mom due to being ill and not having money. They have not been showing up for months, i assume due to the low vibration. But actually begging for months to see them, and then having them show up regularly does give me some hope that i can return to a better place and they are here watching and listening and there truly:cool: is a world out there with the love and caring that will heal our hearts and souls someday.
i

[Limor Wolf]

Hi Vilcabamba ~

The psych of a 'Holocaust survivor' family member is known only to those that are familiar with this kind of 'atmosphere', or probably to all those that somehow were touched by such great atrocities. it is so tragic, that our world has to offer an incredible varied menu of horrors...

I so completely understand what you have been through as a 'sensitive' child ,I feel you.. it is rather interesting that those great difficulties that people experience, not necessarily turn them into a more sensitive and empathetic beings, first of all to themselvs and then to to their surroundings, let alone their own children. sometimes they become hardened and kind of 'seal' their heart all the more strongly. and you, vilcabamba, deserved to be understood. there is nothing more precious than our souls. everyone's. I feel comradeship and completely identify with you and your description of yourself. I send you my love and any healing energies I am able to transmit. what a challenging life lessons you chose for yourself.

Truth can be difficult for most people to hear, and it is not always finding the compassion and love that is the most 'logic' reaction. it is rather challanging to put some facts infront of people's faces (yes, family included) I am sure you understand it very well yourself, people evolve at different stages and some do not go through the same accelerated development as you are, they just kind of 'stay put'.

All my life I had clues that something deep is happening, and my feelings that something is gravely wrong with this world proved to be true, and so much more. at the age of 25 I suffered from an enormously severe depression that lasted more than two years, and I felt basically dead inside, I was walking and 'living' but I felt I have nothing more to do here. Threre was no point or meaning... I was completely alone, and love was absent. prior to that I had a fated love relationship with another 'indigo' being, a brilliant person and it was all accompanied with many synchronicities... when it broke and I continued my way, I could feel that there was not enough love in this wold. My family didn't recognized me, or my situation, each one had their own problems and their own lives to deal with and I have refrained from seeking help, two years of excruciating agony. All the while I had those who watched me from other realms and other galaxies... who patiently waited for me to come out on the other side. Then, my wake up call began. When I reflect on that period of time, I am often thinking about it as if I was being buried underground alive. I was left with the inability to have children and with health issues that are still challenging to me today, I litteraly shut down my body, BUT, something grand has happened! I started being wake up at night at round hours a couple of times every night, and some strange things started happening , I began an incredible journey where I was contacted by 'friends' from other places, and my 'teaching' has began. My world has turned upside down. needless to say that stories like this are happening all over the world. From feeling as if there is no meaning to life, I found out that there is nothing but meaning to our life, on every single moment .

So, I deeply connect with your own 'story', vilcabamba, (because, this is all that it is, our human story for this time: ), and I ask you to please not let your mother's "'apathy" (probably 'an inability') to kill you from the inside.You are simply 'wired' differently than her, that is all. Try and fill yourself with good energies from other places and enjoy the good company of people you meet on your way (hey, don't forget we are here, all supporting each other) and give up the desire or need to get this from those who gave birth to you, life does not necessarily work this way.
Both you and I knew it well before we got here, nothing was planned without our consent, and in fact, we ourselves have a shared agreement with our family members, so that the show can take place...

Having a forgiveness in our heart and understanding the wounded souls (and all of us are) those of us who need some recognition and those of us who can not really provide it, is the ultimate lesson that life on earth can ofer, and it is the beginning of the end of this movie :)

You can cut the core of your emotional dependency on your family, but do not cut the core with your family. As Bill stated it and many Avalon members with similiar experiences have suggested, there is a different perspective that can be taken at things and it is most valuable, especially when considering what we know today of how our world is constructed and how our souls 'operate', so, it is really best to adopt the GRANDER perspective of things.

About sensitivity - In her reading, Carol Clarke said to me: " you are a very very sensitive person" , she emphasized it five more times. mind you, I can be very 'insensitive' at times ... but less often than I used to.. :) of course, what she meant was the kind of sensitivity where I can deeply feel other people, where I am able to tune to the earth rythm, she worded it - " you have such an x-ray eyes and an accute psychic sensetivity, and you have the ability to feel things from other people, even if they are not saying anything to you".

This is the gift and the curse of being an empath, every feeling is more heightened, and it is easy to often feel un-energized with everything that is going on. Carol advised me to keep this refined energy and not let anyone drain it.

So, like myself, this is your responsibility as well.


Keep standing up to those who do wrong, there are many of us here that will gladly join you, since we, the same as you- will not have it ! but, keep having the faith and the light in your heart, feel the connectedness of like minded in this world, a significant representation is present here in Avalon, and know that there is a purpose for it all.



Love and good energies to you,

~^&*~^&*

Limor

[bogeyman]

On important point, trust, as you go through the events and try to heal, is a massive problem. Learning to trust people after you have come out of the other side of these traumatic is very difficult, it takes time, and mistakes will happen and it may be a step back from making progress, but trust must be earned. Do not be scared to trust people, not every one is the same. Use your experiences as a learning curve, in time trust can be something you have in people. You can be frighten to be hurt again, or place yourself in unfamiliar situations, and this may prevent you finding people you can associate with and trust. I found nature a great help and healer, and going to new places and new events.

[nomadguy]

On important point, trust, as you go through the events and try to heal, is a massive problem. Learning to trust people after you have come out of the other side of these traumatic is very difficult, it takes time, and mistakes will happen and it may be a step back from making progress, but trust must be earned. Do not be scared to trust people, not every one is the same. Use your experiences as a learning curve, in time trust can be something you have in people. You can be frighten to be hurt again, or place yourself in unfamiliar situations, and this may prevent you finding people you can associate with and trust. I found nature a great help and healer, and going to new places and new events.

very good point, and I would like to add that the first step might be to trust oneself.

(love your quote by the way!) "Water which is too pure has no fish - Ts'ai Ken T'an"

[grannyfranny100]

Our family is widely spread and keep in touch by email and yearly birthday calls now that our parents are long gone. Recently they flew in to assist me with moving, surgery and smoking cessation. In retrospect I wish I had declined their offer. This became a nightmare. I learned a lot about what they have become spiritually, their viewpoints and would just as soon keep a more superficial relationship. I am not sure family healing reunions must be a love fest.

[Kari Lynn]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. The joy of seeing relationships of friends, family and loved ones rectified.
However, I would for those who have experiences like I do, say to those who can not rectify a relationship, don't tear yourself up over it. As my dad would say, it takes two. And if the other person is not willing to rectify the situation, then there is nothing you can do. Maybe just dust your feet off as you leave, as the bible says to do.
Forgive them if you can, and leave your conscious clear. Lift your burdens.
My husband's grandmother was never accepting of me. I found out she wasn't accepting of any of the women who married the men of her family.
Calling us women, whores, tramps, etc...
To me, to my face, she told me and hubby both that our children were not my husbands offspring. I never argued, just went home hurt and crying that she would accuse me of something so horrid.
When my youngest was born. 2 weeks old.
We were just coming home from a family reunion, of which she could not attend, because she was in the hospital. So my husband pulls into the hospital on the way home to talk to her and show off the new baby boy. I didn't know it at the time, but she lay on her death bed. She was dying of cancer.
My husband asked her, "Does he look like me?"
and she said "No! He's not a -----" (my husband's last name)
So no matter how hard I tried, being nice, respectful to her, she always found ways to cut me down, embarrass me, and belittle me, even on her death bed.
I tried. I tried my best. That's all I can do.
I like to think she's in heaven now, where all things will become known. And that she'd know how bad she hurt me, and the truth that I had never cheated on my husband. It's all I can hope for. That she knows now.

[webyourstuff]

Lastly from the psychic Carol Clarke who predicted a rather amazing future for me in this respect starting from the end of 2012.
Hmm...I very much want it to be true, but find it rather inconceivable that I´ll get from zero to 100 in a few months time. Things being like they are now...but one can always hope for a miracle...



Delfine-
Any time you see someone go from zero to 100, know that a lot of quiet and, apparently, unrewarded work, precedes it.

Best-

[bogeyman]

In my personal experience, many memories of the past are "dreams like", and vague, but sometimes, the emotions are present, but unsure whether they are related to the events. I find it difficult to give specific emotions to certain events that happened. There are many parts of my childhood which are blank, maybe my mind shut these out for survival purposes. I was close to committing suicide, and I believe if there was an easy way out I might of done so. If it wasn't because of my love of nature and the usual events that occurred to me, and my understanding to some degree on the larger scheme of things, I don not believe I would of made it.

[Elly]

Thanks for the sharing of experiences, comments and good advices on this thread. It really got some of my emotions stirring… I hesitated to post for awhile as words are not enough to portray the complexity of such a situation.

I went through a difficult family dynamic that unfortunately was not resolved at it should've been. My parents trapped themselves into a loop of endless drama and dragged their kids as witnesses of their emotional roller coaster. My father brought violence into the equation, which was the most damaging part (I saw my share of insults and broken dishes), and my mother acted as the victim of this conundrum.

My father's unwillingness or inability to acknowledge the pain caused by his reactions was the reason that I decided to distance myself emotionally from him. I felt drained from engaging with this sort of energy. I still believe my distancing was cruel because, despite his behavior, he was my father, the parent I connected the deepest with. I knew he was in pain and I should've been there to help but I didn't feel strong enough. I felt we were trapped in a pattern as a family, with no exit whatever the decisions to try to change it. It was like a heavy burden.

The loop was broken with the sudden death of my father, almost two years ago. He had a heart attack and was rushed to the emergency in ambulance. My sibling and I got to him thanks to an unbelievable series of events. Like the universe was making sure we could be with him before anything happened. We got to see him conscious in the ER. We all were at his bedside when he passed three days later.

Now, our family is no longer strained by the old pattern. We have the space to develop it from a new kind of energy, and hopefully, heal from our past history and grow strong together. I do miss my father. Negativity aside, he was a strong determinant presence within our family. I wish we could've taken the healing path all together.

I have learned that life is not black or white. This 3D journey is a very complex one. The lessons are ongoing. In reality we all yearn for the same = love. So never accept to get stuck in a negative pattern. When possible, one has to reach for the opportunity to heal. We have the power over ourselves, how we react in front of a situation.

[Snookie]

Talk about synchronicity! (as you can see I don't post very often)

Last week a brother that I have avoided having a relationship with for years called me to apologize for sexually abusing me and a younger sister. I told him I wasn't sure I could truly forgive him, however I appreciated him calling me and at least admitting that it had happened. (In the past he had told my siblings not to belive anything my sister and I said as we were liars). I told him scars were left, but I had had counseling which has helped. I suggested that it might help him too. He said he didn't know why he did it, but none of it was my fault and that he thought I was a good person. He also said how sorry he was that he never protected me like a brother should, and that he hoped that some day in the future I would feel that I could turn to him for help if I needed to.

I must admit I was blown away by the sincerity of his apology. He didn't try to make excuses or blame anyone else.

Then a few days ago I run across this thread and start reading...shedding tears and realizing what a terrified young boy he must have been growing up with 9 other siblings in a family with an angry verbally & physically abusive father and repressed & fearful mother. I guess it was a way for him to gain a sense of some control. It also occurred to me that it damaged him far more than it damaged my sister and I. He told me he didn't have many friends and preferred to be be alone. He said his memory is so bad he had tests done to determine if he has Althzheimers.

After all these years of struggling with feelings of bitterness, trying to figure out why it happened and striving to forgive him, I think I finally have.

I also agree with several of the other posters who say this is soul contract stuff that we have agreed to before we came into this current existence. In my opinion, if we can experience things like this without continuing the cycle of abuse we have accomplished great things. My niece told me recently how amazed she was that her mother and I were such good role models considering what we went through as kids...high praise indeed!

[Latti]

My father remarried after the death of my mother and one of my siblings resented Dad's new wife. Harsh words were spoken that resulted in two of my brothers not speaking and refusing to attend family gatherings. I'm saddened by this riff, but haven't done anything in an attempt to mediate. Reading this thread has motivated me to talk to both of them and try to find a way to bring them back together.

Latti

[4evrneo]

-------

Dear All -- I'm still blown away by some of the personal experiences reported on this thread.

I've just had a very valuable conversation with a close friend about this, and everything the thread triggers, and everywhere it takes us.

So here's a brief note. It was never my intention to encourage anyone to reconnect with toxic, dangerous people. You may be best off walking out of the door (as in a toxic marriage) -- and never looking back. Sometimes that's absolutely the right thing to do, and can take its own kind of courage.

The other kind of courage is what it takes to apologize to a loved one many years later, confessing that one has made a mistake.

This is what I'd first been thinking about when I posted the thread -- but then it took on a life of its own. :) (And rightly so, too!)

The problem with families is that you get everything in a bundle. You get old, beloved friends, returning to be with you again. You get sworn, bitter enemies, bent on revenge. And you also get strangers who mean very little, and you wonder why they're there at all. All at the same Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner.

So here's one of many problems that can arise. When one walks away from an entire family -- and someone one feels compelled to, even to save oneself from physical damage or worse -- one leaves behind not only the toxic enemies, but also old, dear friends who may be part of the same family package.

I welcome hearing from anyone who's found themselves wrestling with this dilemma. If that bond is broken, and one then reconnects, one can also find oneself reconnecting with one's own enemies. It's an extremely difficult situation to handle.

Family is certainly an interesting dynamic that I have learned a great many lessons in my life more than once. I have left an abusive husband, and an abusive toxic mother at a young age and I have come to realize how they have become tremendous blessings in disguise. Now that I am revisiting a family quandary with my mother right now, it has reminded me that I have great courage and determination and will find the good in any situation. I have to thank you, this experience so far on Avalon has given me deeper meaning to my life to think outside the box and to find truths in myself I had forgotten.

All my blessings,
Annette

[melpizza]

Hi there, this is what I am about to do in my own life, re-connect. After about 20 years of not speaking to or connecting with my parents or siblings; I am now moving back. Why did I intentionally cut myself off you might ask. To heal myself of the constant and negative mind bashing, that was my family's everyday behavior. They have changed, so have I. I now have more tools to deal with such things, I am moving in a positive direction.

[eileenrose]

And healing is just one avenue that can be pursued with family members. Another more extreme path is waking up and living with them again. This has cleared up many 'pasts' for me. Having been a member of the 'woman' race, it has been far more rewarding living with previously estranged (or distant) re-la-tives than apart. As for some reason they trigger past memories to resurface, allowing me the final chance to let go of old ideas that have hindered my progress (and original form).

[Snookie]

Sometimes reconnecting is not a a good idea.

Last year my ex-husband contacted my sister with the excuse he wanted to see her kids and reconnect with them. I left him back in '97 because he loved gambling far more than he did me. He was also very controlling and insecure. He loved to play mind games as well. She agreeed to see him, so he came over a few days later. She said it was a strange visit as he seemed to have a hidden agenda. He asked about me and if I was still living at the same place. She said yes. Thankfully she didn't mention that I was planning on putting my place up for sale soon as I was going to move to a different town to live with my sweetheart. She just said that I was still seeing him.

My sister & I both agreed he must still be gambling as he was renting a basement bedroom in a house on an acreage even though he had been working at the same place for several years. Why live in those conditions if you can afford more? She didn't see what he was driving, but noticed there was a big oil spot that wasn't there before after he left.

We're also pretty sure that if he knew I was selling my place or that I was not in a relationship he would have tried to get in touch with me. Probably to give me a sob story and try to get back together and if I wasn't interested, at least to get some money. I can't help feeling I dodged a bullet!

Interesting that she never heard from him again :rolleyes:

[Snookie]

How about reconnecting with old friends?

My sweetie and I had just returned home from a trip about a month ago and there was a message on our voice mail from a girl I hung out with in high school. We had not seen each other for about 30 yrs! I called her back and she said she'd like to come for a visit. She lives 4 hrs away. We decided the next weekend would work for both of us.

I was a bit nervous ... What do you say to someone you haven't talked to for that long - and for a whole weekend? Well she came and we rememised and BS'd about everyone & everything we could think of. I showed her pictures of my beautiful daughter who passed away at 10 weeks from a congenital heart defect and we had a good cry. She showed me pictures of her 2 grown kids and her husband. My friend and neighbor came over to meet her. She said later we looked very comfortable with each other.

During the weekend we decided we should try looking up other friends we both had back then. We left a message with one person we both hung out with. When she left we agreed to meet at a central location with her cousin (who I was also friends with). After she got home she emailed me to say she got ahold of another mutual friend who wants to join us. I'm really looking forward to seeing everyone again!

[Simon]

What a wonderful thing.

[Dancerrose]

I’m the oldest of five, we all have children and our children have children. The chances of disagreement are guaranteed. My own personal philosophy is that you’ll always get a cup of tea at my door.

[Knowrainknowrainbows!]

I’m the oldest of five, we all have children and our children have children. The chances of disagreement are guaranteed. My own personal philosophy is that you’ll always get a cup of tea at my door.

This is a GREAT idea! I am the youngest of six. Parents passed early in life, siblings spread out and 2 died within 13 months of each other....
Life is, among other things, bitter sweet. But, Dancerose, I really appreciated this concept. thanks for sharing!!!
KRKR

[MargueriteBee]

After reading the first page of this thread I went outside and, eventho she is miles and miles away, told my sister that I forgive her. I will never see her again because she is a complete drunk and very toxic. I do have to protect myself.

[sineck]

there is not one day that i do not long the love of my family, hope has become a fragrance, a special image within my soul, i imagine a caress, the hand of my mother, then i remember her letting go, there are so many things that we need in life, the thing is that those of us that do not understand the need of those that need it the most

[vano915]

I have tried to "reach" my father but it won't work. So the best way for me is to stay away from my him. My grandson just like us all are members of the HUMAN race. Yet,I still need to make peace somehow with my father for he is getting up in years. I really don't know what to do.:confused:

My suggestion would be to stay in touch with your father anyway -- you'll never get through to him by staying away, and besides, you love him. Have coffee or lunch with him once in awhile, when your grandson is nowhere in sight. Be kind and gentle with him, and try to remember that he grew up in a very different world than you did. Let him know how the child is doing and that you enjoy him, but don't push it. If it were me, I would also refuse to listen to any racial rants. Your father is the only one who can change that attitude; all you can do is to offer him an alternative. My two cents worth --
Mary

[Hypnos]

This thread, in connection with the information on the upcoming eclipse of May 25, 2013, speaks deeply to me.

It seems the signs are all pointing in the direction of releasing toxic emotions, and healing relationships. Getting to the truth and allowing it to shine forth.

I'm in a situation like some of those mentioned.

There's a toxic family member who causes conflict and infects others with poison, anger, and hatred.

This family member has a pattern of badmouthing people and making them into pariahs.

It's really sad, on the one hand, that people listen to this person -- the individual kept a colleague from getting work by badmouthing the person to potential employers.

And now that same person has been apparently badmouthing me for years.

I've got to come forward and correct the impression this person has made. It's important for me to do this, because by causing conflict, this person has managed to control the entire family.

I think part of the reason may be to keep other family members from finding out about this person's poor character -- no one in the family would support that kind of behavior if they knew about it.

Also, the other party appears to be struggling with severe mental health issues -- and owning up to bad behavior -- horrendous behavior -- also means owning up to distorted and delusional thinking.

The hardest part of it may be to let the other family members know I forgive them. I forgive them because they didn't know any better, and because they relied on someone to give them the truth, and the person they trusted let them down.

I don't know that they will understand. They aren't used to turning the other cheek. They are used to anger and finger-pointing. I sure hope this situation will help them to change that.

The way I see it, there's no point in getting angry at them for not having the emotional maturity to check out the person's stories instead of merely accepting them. That's why I don't gossip, by the way.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this.

I think the time has come in the upcoming week, with this eclipse, to let the truth be exposed and to heal.

All of you dealing with this issue -- you have my blessings and my best wishes for a smooth healing transformation in all your relationships.

And thanks for listening.

~ Hypnos

[Limor Wolf]

I dared to send this thread to my brother and to my sister, and especially what I wrote here in regards to my family -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48412-Reconnecting-with-alienated-family-members&p=536595&viewfull=1#post536595

I would like to reply to my brother's response to that here, and not privetly as I know they will be able to read it.

My dear brothers, Thank you for reading my post and for finding the time to relate to it. why now? because I feel now is the right time for us to touch these things. It is not yet a year since we lost our mother, it is so easy to move on and continue with the routine in our life, it is not as comfortable to stop for a minute and take a look at ourselves. Yes, we have been going through very confusing things in our childhood, in an understatement and it left us with some scars that we are trying our best to conceal. Maybe it is just my own need to to take a shared look at it now, even though we discussed quite a lot, in order to clean this place. Brother, It was a pleasure for me to read your email response, as you revealed your anger and it does not happen often.. and your saying that you feel threatened by your own need to break this patteren.
I know you can. You are a really caring dad.

Inspite of the title, I hope that we will never be alienated. I know we won't

I thank Bill for allowing this opportunity here. Healing is always needed. Dear members, don't let this thread disappear :)

[Mike]

i'm in a the very awkward position of wanting to apologize to an old friend for treating him poorly, but i'm really not interested in being friends again.

what to do?

one will inevitably follow the other, right? or so he'll assume.

he's a big drug user, what you might call a toxic personality. a good heart though. not a bad guy at all - I just don't want to resume the relationship for obvious reasons.

ive tried to envision the conversation, and I always get stuck at the same spot: "hello Mike, it's Mike. yeah listen, i'd really like to apologize for what went on several years ago, and...wait, what's that?...meet for a few drinks at the bar later?...no, sorry, i'm not interested in beings friends, see, just wanted to apologize..."

it just won't work.

any advice?

[Limor Wolf]

Chinaski, oh, god, why it takes us so much time to learn to speak authentically, and say exactly what we mean? No reply is needed as I don't have the answer myself. but your real answer lays within the question.

Try integrity.

[Limor Wolf]

Hi. I feel drawn back to this thread, as my father (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48412-Reconnecting-with-alienated-family-members&p=536595&viewfull=1#post536595) passed away yesterday. I release all grudges and fill his spirit with love to set him free. Much interferences were invloved with my family's surrounding, a micrososm and a mirror to the 'behind the scenes' of interferences around the world and within our society, a dual dance of outside playings with energetics, where one of the dancer's participating doesn't even know they are on the dancing floor and are being led.

Very thankful for Bill opening this thread and hope it can revive itself with other's sharings and stories of reconciliation with family members, if only inside our hearts ~

[Bill Ryan]

Thank you also, dear Bill, perhaps you like to spare your thread and move the warm hearting responses of support to a separate thread



Yes, that's a good idea. I copied your post immediately above to this new thread, and moved all the very kind replies.

My Father's Passing, and a healing that has ensued (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86644-My-Father-s-Passing-and-a-healing-that-has-ensued&p=1017584)

[araucaria]

i'm in a the very awkward position of wanting to apologize to an old friend for treating him poorly, but i'm really not interested in being friends again.

what to do?

one will inevitably follow the other, right? or so he'll assume.

he's a big drug user, what you might call a toxic personality. a good heart though. not a bad guy at all - I just don't want to resume the relationship for obvious reasons.

ive tried to envision the conversation, and I always get stuck at the same spot: "hello Mike, it's Mike. yeah listen, i'd really like to apologize for what went on several years ago, and...wait, what's that?...meet for a few drinks at the bar later?...no, sorry, i'm not interested in beings friends, see, just wanted to apologize..."

it just won't work.

any advice?
Mike, my advice would be to write him a letter by old-fashioned snail mail. That way you get to take as long as you like crafting exactly everything you want to say; you do not get interrupted with contradictions or misunderstandings; and your friend gets all the time he needs to take in the full meaning of what you are saying. He would know that he would be wasting his time replying, and might eventually understand and accept both your need to apologize and your need to end your friendship.

Edit: Just noticed your post was not three days old but two years and three days old: I hope you got this business sorted long ago.

[Bill Ryan]

I was having a conversation with good friends just yesterday about issues related to this. It's quite an important topic — maybe very important for some people! — and so I really wanted to remind us all that this thread is here.

:)

[Foxie Loxie]

I have found that at times it is simply impossible to "reconnect" with certain people because one no longer exists on the same plane they choose to remain in, so there is not even a starting point!! I think back on all the energy I wasted trying to reconnect with my Father when he was in his second marriage. Some things are just not possible. If one wants to continue to grow & mature, one leaves behind old behavioral patterns & simply no longer "fits" into certain circumstances. It is a hard lesson to learn, that we cannot change other people! :faint: There comes a point when one just has to "let go" & move on, doing what is best for one's own health.

Perhaps this is why so many of us have been "led" to Avalon? :flower:

:bearhug:

[DebJoy]

I'm surprised, and somewhat saddened, that this very, very, important thread has only 3 pages of contributions so far. By way of comparison, the Mitchell Combes thread now has 24 pages. I'll step out on a limb
and say that this thread is the most important thread on the forum right now. It's about personal transformation and offers an opportunity to wake up!

ok, rant over.

I will agree with Meesh on this. Right now I'm the only Avalon member perusing this thread. I have a ways to go (i.e. I want to finish reading first) before I contribute. This is a hugely important thread, and one that touches each of us - not just regarding family members, but other people (business associates, friends, etc.) with whom we are disconnected and with whom healing, forgiveness and moving forward is hugely needed. Thanks for bumping it, Bill.

[norman]

I've been thinking about this recently too. Pot bound plants came to my mind. Some people just seem to like having a pot around their roots and will scream bloody hell if you ever tell them how silly it looks.

There's even those who worship the god of Bonsai

[DebJoy]

Sometimes we think that "healing" is when everyone gets back together and is friendly and lovely. But that can be a trap!

In actual fact, true healing can occur when the situation no longer draws you back in, you no longer rehash the story in your mind, and you're at peace - however you are NOT back together. When you truly heal, you are no longer attracted to the toxic people, nor they to you (though they might try in the beginning). It just doesn't resonate any more.

During a South American plant medicine ceremony with "San Pedro", I was asked as an elder (someone 52 years old and older) what my "elder" words of wisdom were. I responded that I had no words of wisdom, that my life was a perfect example of what NOT to do. When the shaman persisted though, I shared that it was most important to "JUST SAY NO" - say no to bad relationships, bad family setups, bad marriages, bad jobs, bad career choices, bad restaurant choices, bad clothes (super high heels? really!) whatever. This really resonated with me. I hadn't said no to SO much in my life, and was constantly living MY life according to others' choices for me, whether consciously or not. I just didn't feel I had a voice though many would assert that I did - see it really wasn't MY voice when I didn't know what ME was all about. When one of the facilitators said to me, "Oh but it is important to say no WITH LOVE", I immediately turned to her and shouted, "F*ck NO!" Boy did that resonate with some young gals in the ceremony! See that was the trap - I'd always felt that I could only say no if it didn't upset any one, if only I said it with LOVE for everyone. But I didn't realize that I didn't include myself in that equation since I'd never really gotten to know myself. So I didn't say NO, over and over again, and those were some of the biggest acts of non-love towards ME. (Ever been told you had to be that "good girl"?) So I said yes to choices that never truly resonated with me, because I couldn't be responsible for the resulting upset - even though I sacrificed my life and liveliness as a result. Go figure.

I came from a very toxic family, although on the surface things looked "perfect" to onlookers. But it wasn't.

I was the eldest of 7 children, and was the 3rd parent (figuratively). I took care of the children (doing things way beyond my years), mediated my parents' fights, prayed with my mother on how to handle a drunken husband when he came home, and "protected" the children. There was much physical abuse, probably a good measure of emotional abuse, and potentially sexual abuse. There was definitely a dampening and blanketing of individual energy and initiatives since that would go counter to maintaining the family scene. The individual was not important - the family was all important. I got sucked into pretending that all was well, although I knew it wasn't, I just couldn't surface to that conscious realization. I was just a child. I was isolated from society in many ways, and indoctrinated in narrow belief systems, even though now I can look back and see how I was breaking out of the mold even back then. My true essence was "leaking out" in many ways, but on the surface I still subscribed to a very narrow view of life.

When I went away to college, my siblings thought I was abandoning them. I guess I was escaping - I even said I was going to the 'furthest point in the geographical USA' to attend college. My parents divorced at that point - apparently I didn't hold them together. My siblings and my mother blamed me for that. Even years and decades later.

My mother insisted that my siblings and myself NOT see our father any more when he remarried 10 years later - now that they had seen what he had done. Or not see her. Huh? They all agreed to not see our father again, except for me. So now, my mother insisted that my siblings not be in touch with me. They agreed. And were in great fear of reprisals from her if they disobeyed. Which they rarely did, and only in great secrecy.

In retrospect, I was full of fear yet acted out of much bravado. I tried to make my life "perfect" but it was a shambles. I executed the wrong strategies perfectly (marriage, career, etc.) until they totally fell apart. I just wasn't street-smart, and it was easy for me to make decisions that truly didn't support me. Heck - I didn't even know who I really was. Yet I started breaking away from old thought patterns, and started exploring new ideas, which in many ways felt sacrilegious to me. That took a lot of courage. While I can see spurts of this happening when I was in my teens and early twenties, it really took off when I was about 28-32. And has continued to this day.

I had to make hard choices - I told my mother that I intended to see my father, and she has only spoken to me a few times in the last 33 years - each time I initiated the conversation. And I have seen her once, but again I initiated, and it was very obvious from the continued toxic output from her that my healing was in learning to be happy AWAY from her. It was the right decision in retrospect, though a sad one. However, the poison from her continued to spread to my children, and there are issues there now. But I had always known that I would only be with them until they were 18 (which shocked me) and I have realized that I am responsible for extricating myself and being a good example, and my siblings/children/parents are responsible for themselves. That was hard for me to grasp too, since I'd always been the responsible one who had successfully solved problems across the board. Maybe they were all waiting for me to step up and solved it all for them and make the "happy family".

So for me, it was about letting go.

My biggest lessons in life have been when I realized that "I was OK, and didn't need to change" and therefore I had permission to leave the situation - bad relationship, bad job, bad career, bad friendship, etc. Over and over again, that has been the lesson in the forefront when I finally realized what needed to happen next in my life. Sometimes it took years to realize that once again as I learned this lesson in deeper and more profound ways.

By the way, my father and I healed our relationship, shortly before he died. Apparently my role in his life was to teach him how to give and receive love. (He was an alcoholic, gambler, irresponsible, controller, and rarely present in his children's lives - though he was there much more than he was given credit for) This healing happened in the last few months before his passing. My only regret there was that he died shortly after this was accomplished, and I wish that I could have had him longer.

To have stayed in relationship with my mother, siblings, children would have been to have accepted toxicity and abusiveness in mine. Although I made various attempts, it was apparent that they were too willing to accept without questioning the poison presented to them. My brother even said one time, "Geez, if you keep hearing something over and over again, you accept it as true." And he was unwilling to open up to a different view. There is ONE truth but an INFINITE number of lies, and it felt that I would have to refute the INFINITE lies in order to have an invitation to grace their presence. That was just too exhausting and felt futile to me. There would always be one more drama, one more lie, one more divergence from being able to be in a healthy relationship. It was a trap and I wasn't going to fall into it, again.

So I focused on healing myself, opening myself to the wonders of the world and our universe, and as a result I have attracted the most amazing people into my life. That would never have happened if I had stayed stuck in the old paradigm that I SHOULD (quit "shoulding" or "sh*tting" on yourself) heal my family relationships in order for me to be truly happy.

Now that may happen in the future but I'm not holding my breath. I have reached out and they never respond any more. I don't even have contact info for some of them any more. My focus in life now is quite different, and if they choose to engage with me, I have learned what works for me, where my boundaries are, and how to engage with love, compassion and also rejecting nefarious dramatic manipulations. I love each and every one of them. I have forgiven each and every one of them (oh my the processes it took there!).

And I'm going to say this is MOST IMPORTANT --- I love ME and have forgiven MYSELF - typically I don't find myself to be in those toxic spaces with toxic people any more and I'm not attracted to them, nor them to me (usually) :highfive: That's big progress on my part. I'm not responsible for their unfolding, their corrections, their ultimate happiness - they are. I'm not their savior, the one responsible for it all. And I'm here should they choose to reach out. To be friends, not their counselor.

At times I have felt guilt for leaving all that behind. That old-time conditioning is tough to break completely.

I am so appreciative for all the lessons I have learned as a result of being raised/lived in this environment. I was always encouraged to draw on talents/resources/abilities that I didn't realize I did have, and developed many of those abilities in far greater ways than I would have normally done. I developed a sense of independence, inner strength, faith in God/Spirit/Universe, and confidence in my intuition and ability to say NO to authority (mother, father, boss, grandparents, government, corporations) since I became my own authority (and I reached out to MY resources to inform and educate me). I learned much about manipulation, mind control and how to see beyond the pretty picture. I have extricated myself from religious conditioning while preserving the best there. I'm not afraid to stand up to bullies and I do it well.

And as I move forward in my new life (which has been unfolding since I was 28-30 years old), I have realized that many lessons continue to deepen for me. However, if I had NOT learned these family lessons well, then I believe I'd still be attracting the same type of people in my life - I am not. And if there's a deeper sense of these lessons to be learned, then it will show up and I will learn it.

I hope I haven't blathered on too much, and I do hope that what I've shared resonates with many of my dear Avalon friends.

[Foxie Loxie]

Good share, DebJoy! I like something I heard on Dr. Bill Deagle's video; "If you live a lie, you become a victim of that lie!" That about sums up how trying to live up to someone else's expectations can ruin your own life. So often, what was programmed into us as children does, in fact, ruin our lives. We get bound up in behavioral patterns that just keep repeating the same sad results. Your courage to break all that is admirable!! :highfive:

None of us have ever "arrived" during this lifetime, we just keep learning as we go! I like your use of the word "toxic"...that really does give a word picture of what has been happening & what we can choose to avoid! As I said before, You Go Girl! :bearhug:

[Bill Ryan]

:bump:

This is an amazing thread. :flower:

[Mike]

I came across this funny gif today and found myself giggling uncontrollably over it. One of my first thoughts was to send it to "Chris", a close friend who I had fallen out with months ago.

Being somewhat prideful and stubborn I deliberated for a bit. But then I decided to send it anyway. Well he responded and we had a nice chat. I feel great about that. I love the guy.

I apologized for my role in the argument that led up to the falling out, and after a short pause, he said "I'm not apologizing for anything". Well, that's him; I wouldn't have expected anything else! I think I would have actually been disappointed had he apologized for anything:).

Life is pretty short. The last time Chris and I fell out, many years had passed before we reconciled. I'm getting older now. There's no time for that anymore. Anything could happen at any moment and if someone close to you dies before you've had a chance to square it up with 'em, you'll never forgive yourself.

I've always been stubborn about reconciling. Wasted a ton of time by doing that. Don't be like me.

[Gemma13]

Where's the gif Mike?

[Mike]

Where's the gif Mike?


not forum friendly:)

[Constance]

I came across this funny gif today and found myself giggling uncontrollably over it. One of my first thoughts was to send it to "Chris", a close friend who I had fallen out with months ago.

Being somewhat prideful and stubborn I deliberated for a bit. But then I decided to send it anyway. Well he responded and we had a nice chat. I feel great about that. I love the guy.

I apologized for my role in the argument that led up to the falling out, and after a short pause, he said "I'm not apologizing for anything". Well, that's him; I wouldn't have expected anything else! I think I would have actually been disappointed had he apologized for anything:).

Life is pretty short. The last time Chris and I fell out, many years had passed before we reconciled. I'm getting older now. There's no time for that anymore. Anything could happen at any moment and if someone close to you dies before you've had a chance to square it up with 'em, you'll never forgive yourself.

I've always been stubborn about reconciling. Wasted a ton of time by doing that. Don't be like me.

I'm really glad to hear this Mikey. :flower:



"your life is your life
don’t let it be clubbed into dank submission.
be on the watch.
there are ways out.
there is a light somewhere.
it may not be much light but
it beats the darkness.
be on the watch.
the gods will offer you chances.
know them.
take them.
you can’t beat death but
you can beat death in life, sometimes.
and the more often you learn to do it,
the more light there will be.
your life is your life.
know it while you have it.
you are marvelous
the gods wait to delight
in you."


dCsZNalcaXM

[wondering]

I have a thought about someone dying while in the midst of an alienating episode of some kind - harsh words, for example, between two friends. It reminds me of the Catholic church saying, decades ago, that if we “die in mortal sin, we are judged on that no matter what kind of good life we had been living.” Baloney! I don’t buy it. If we love someone then that is the truth of it - the warp and woof of it, and an outburst or failing from our human self does not change that love one iota. It would not undue all the kind, selfless, caring things they had done in the course of being their partner or friend. I don’t think we could let that be a determiner of how good a partner or friend we were. Just sayin’ Diane

[Bill Ryan]

:bump: :bump: :bump:

[rgray222]

I DON'T think most people believe that families have been put together for a reason. They wrongly think they had nothing to do with the makeup of their family. The bigger the problems and the more toxic your family member(s) are the bigger the opportunity to solve problems that span several lifetimes. Most people have a tendency to believe that the problems inside a family are so massive that they won't even make an attempt to fix them. Without realizing it you are setting yourself up for bigger problems down the road. Solving family problems is like moving chess pieces four or five times while your opponent stands still. In truth family problems are not impossible to solve they are just riddled with intense and acute emotions. The things that take the most effort are generally the things that we are most proud of and families should be at the top of the list.

This comment deals with families, I believe the toxic friend(s) issue is an entirely different thing.

[Vangelo]

-------

Dear All:

Here's a topic which I have no personal experience of, but have in the past been associated with friends who have had deeply moving and life-changing experiences.

It's about when something goes badly wrong in a family, there's a [sometimes very long] period of disconnection, and then everything is healed again.

This experience recently happened to a friend of mine, and the love and healing that was released by a sincere, humble explanation of what had gone awry, accompanied by a heartfelt apology that was gratefully received, has transformed several generations of an entire family -- including elderly parents in the twilight of their long lives who had never, ever thought they would see the day.

An experience of my own (indirectly) was quite a while back, when I was leading and running personal development courses. I was talking with the group -- about a dozen young men and women -- about how many decisions are simple ones. Some things are easy to do.. and easy not to.

For example (I said): "When you're hungry, it's easy to go to the kitchen to find a cookie or a candy bar. It's also easy to find a piece of cheese or an apple."

You see, decisions that can ending up molding our lives are often a choice between two things that are easy.

I then gave the example of picking up the phone. "It's easy to think of a friend, look at the phone, and do nothing. It's also easy to pick it up, and dial 10 numbers on the keypad. Like this."

Then I mimed doing just that with my cellphone. It took maybe 15 seconds, and almost no effort.

A couple of minutes after that, with the conversation continuing, one of the group members, a young man in his mid-20s, quietly excused himself and got up to leave the room. I assumed that he'd gone to the bathroom.

But 10 minutes later, he had not returned. The group's conversation was still interesting and valuable, so I overlooked his absence.

20 minutes passed. Then 30.

After 35 minutes, he returned, looking a little spaced out. Several of the others enquired how he was, wondering if he'd been feeling ill.

He looked around, and took a deep breath.

"I've just phoned my father," he said. "I've not spoken to him for 13 years." And then he began to weep.

That set us all off. It was life-changing for him. And all because he made the choice between two things that were easy.

:)

Beautiful thread, thank you for bumping it. As I read it, I wanted to somehow contact all the folks who are not active any more and invite them to join us here on Avalon and participate again.

I bolded the 2nd to last paragraph because my comment is related specifically to that. In the end, both parties have to be ready, willing, and able. In my case, both my mother and sister we ready and willing, but unable to take that last step because it required deep self-reflection, ownership, and forgiveness.

For me, my resolution and forgiveness became a journey I needed to pursue on my own. My journey of self-discovery was about ownership, forgiveness, and unconditional self-love. It brought me to the place where I was ready to reconnect with my mother and sister, but they were still stuck projecting their pain onto others.

My mother has passed and my sister is truly too toxic to approach. My heart bleeds for her because I now realize she carries many of the same multi-generational shadows I own. But I also know, it is her journey to travel; I can't do it for her.

These books helped me on my journey... (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=anthony+martino&crid=25R940AJNVMO7&sprefix=anthony+martino%2Caps%2C90&ref=nb_sb_noss_1)

[Bill Ryan]

:bump: :flower:

[Antagenet]

Ok What would YOU do?

14 years ago my two siblings (in cahoots) stole my fathers inheritance for themselves and left me in poverty.
(after 15 years of me caring for our parents, with them never contributing)

In the past year I have almost died 3 times because of genetic mutations (that they most possibly share).
I was able to figure out and remedy my health crisis. Each time. At least knock on wood, so far I am here.

By the way one of the methods was an immediate emergency treatment of Plasmapheresis
which I chose myself and paid out of pocket since I have no health insurance.
(Good thing I had a few pieces of metal which they didn't find)

OK so... after how they have treated me...
Would you let them know what the genetic mutations are?

Be honest.

(oh yes I forgot to mention. I have a recording of the last phone call with my sister,
in which she promises to hunt me down for the rest of my life and destroy me.)
(this is not a joke post... she is a psychopath.)

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Hello Antagenet, glad you are back on the forum!

In my opinion, a situation like the one you are in now, is one of the very hardest in life to deal with. It often can either "make or break" us. Sometimes it's siblings; it can be a parent or parents, a son or a daugther. It also can be "friends".

What I would do? I would let them know in a very short note. Just the mere fact and let them find out for themselves.
It's not because they treated you in an inhuman way that you should do the same.

But that does not mean that you ever should be willing "to make up with them", at least I would not, because these people CAN'T ever learn to change.

They are what they are. Like you, I have had (plenty of) psychopaths/pathological narcissists in my life; the best (and only thing!) to do in such a case is to turn your back to them and continue your life in different ways. But without "them".

Wishing you lots of strength!

[pyrangello]

Antaganet, as for your siblings , simply walk away and let karma deal with it. I have always said greed breeds stupidity. Individuals family or not that take advantage of another person don't live in our world of compassion and caring. And for all of us that don't understand why people or family members can be so consumed of dark entities, stop looking for the answers because they don't exist in a caring persons world. This may sound harsh and abrupt but when you realize there are more productive directions you can focus on than dealing with negative energy , you will just be wasting your own good energy chasing bad energy. And at the end of the day there are no answers why except the obvious and thus you are back where you started at to begin with.

My brother sued me some 35 years ago, after 4 years in the courts the court awarded him half of what I offered him to begin with minus his attorney fees. He's never apologized to me to this day and honestly until I read this thread I have never even questioned that he ever would. My mom asked me one time why is he the way he is? I just told her stop looking for answers because it doesn't exist in your world or mine. So I just moved on and CONSIDERED it another one of life's experiences. Fyi , he is a millionaire today and holds money very near and dear to his heart. I wish him no negative feelings and I just am concerned with the present and future and not the past.