In Support of Bradley Manning, Courageous USA Military Whistleblower

[wynderer]

mods/admins -- i see this involves a request for financial help -- if against Avalon policy, i'll replace w/a purely informative post] -- Julian Assange supported a recent petition for Bradley

http://firedoglake.com/search/?cx=012863467380897931540%3Abacmcr9sohw&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=bradley+manning&siteurl=firedoglake.com%2F&ref=www.bing.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dfiredoglake%26src%3DIE-SearchBox%26Form%3DIE8SRC&ss=7688j7090650j15

Help Kevin Gosztola Cover Bradley Manning's Next Hearing: Aug 27-31

Kevin Gosztola will be heading to Bradley Manning's next pretrial motion hearing on August 27 at Ft. Meade.

Following their most recent court appearance, defense attorney David Coombs publicly released a motion detailing the horrific abuses Bradley Manning endured during his isolation at Quantico, demanding the dismissal of all charges.1 Bradley's mistreatment is largely what brought attention to his case in the first place, as he was made to strip naked each night and had essentially zero privacy, access to exercise or outside stimulation.

Firedoglake's dedicated coverage and activism surrounding his abuse forced the government to remove him from punitive isolation, and revisiting the facts of his detention could yield another positive outcome for the defense. With your help, we can send Kevin Gosztola back to Ft. Meade to keep us apprised of the latest court proceedings.

Can you please donate $25 or more to support Kevin Gosztola's coverage of Bradley Manning's pretrial motion hearing, August 27-31?

Click here to donate: https://secure.firedoglake.com/page/contribute/manning-general

Firedoglake activists were instrumental in ending Bradley Manning's pretrial isolation at Quantico. Tens of thousands of activists spoke out against his mistreatment, inspiring some to even confront the President at a fundraiser-- and Firedoglake founder and publisher Jane Hamsher was even detained at Quantico bringing approved guest David House to visit Bradley.2

Together, our activism and Kevin's reporting brought Bradley's abuse to the public, spurring a series of events that fundamentally changed the conditions of his pretrial confinement: State Department spokesperson PJ Crowley was forced to resign after calling Manning's treatment "ridiculous," "counterproductive" and "stupid" at a press event. 3 Quantico brig commander James Averhart was replaced and Manning was subsequently moved to Ft. Leavenworth, KS where his conditions improved.4

Sending Kevin each month to cover the pretrial hearings is an important public service that we are honored to provide, and with your help we'll continue to do so. Help us keep this story alive by making a contribution to Kevin Gosztola's coverage of Bradley Manning's pretrial motion hearings.

Please donate $25 or more to support Kevin Gosztola's coverage of Bradley Manning's pretrial motion hearing, August 27-31.

Thank you for your continued support. Your donations allow Kevin to continue reporting on this story and make sure the government cannot convict Bradley in secrecy.

In Solidarity,

Brian Sonenstein
Campaign Director,
Firedoglake.com

SOURCES:

1. Defense Motion Details Horrific Conditions Bradley Manning Was Subjected to at Quantico, Kevin Gosztola, The Dissenter, 8/10/2012.
2. BREAKING: Military Harassing David House, Jane Hamsher for Visiting Bradley Manning, Michael Whitney, FDL Action, 1/23/2011.
3. State Department’s Crowley Condemns Treatment of Bradley Manning: “Counterproductive and Stupid”, Marcy Wheeler, EmptyWheel, 3/11/11.
4. Marines Boot Commander Ordering Abuse of Bradley Manning, Michael Whitney, FDL Action, 1/26/2011.

[Cjay]

Many people have apparently decided Bradley Manning is guilty before he has been tried. That, in itself, is disgusting. Nothing excuses the abuses he has suffered, even if he is subsequently found to be guilty. I wonder whether he will receive a fair trial. I strongly doubt he will. We must be ever-vigilant to expose such physical, mental and legal abuses - and we must hold the perpetrators accountable, regardless of the guilt or innocence of those who suffer the abuses.

We MUST stand up to these criminal mosters who think they are above the law.

[wynderer]

here's some info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning

This article is about Bradley Manning. For the court-martial and pre-trial hearings, see United States v. Bradley Manning.
Bradley Manning
Private First Class Bradley Manning


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Born (1987-12-17) December 17, 1987 (age 24)
Crescent, Oklahoma, United States
Service/branch United States Army
Years of service Since 2007
Rank Private First Class
Unit 2nd Brigade Combat Team,
10th Mountain Division
Awards National Defense Service Medal
Army Service Ribbon
Global War on Terrorism Service Medal
Iraq Campaign Medal
Parents Brian Manning
Susan Fox

Bradley Edward Manning (born December 17, 1987) is a United States Army soldier who was arrested in May 2010 in Iraq on suspicion of having passed classified material to the whistleblower website WikiLeaks. He was charged over the following months with a number of offenses, including communicating national defense information to an unauthorized source and aiding the enemy, a capital offense, though prosecutors said they would not seek the death penalty.[1]

Assigned as an intelligence analyst in October 2009 to an army unit based near Baghdad, Manning was given access to several databases used by the United States government to transmit classified information. He was arrested after Adrian Lamo, a computer hacker, told the FBI that Manning had confided during online chats that he had downloaded material from these databases and passed it to WikiLeaks. The material, much of it published between April and November 2010, included videos of a 2007 helicopter gun attack in Baghdad and the 2009 Granai airstrike in Afghanistan, 250,000 United States diplomatic cables, and 500,000 army reports that came to be known as the Iraq and Afghan War logs. It was the largest set of restricted documents ever leaked to the public.[2]

Manning was held from July 2010 in the Marine Corps Brig, Quantico, Virginia, under Prevention of Injury status, which entailed de facto solitary confinement and other restrictions that caused international concern. In April 2011, 295 academics – many of them prominent American legal scholars – signed a letter arguing that the detention conditions violated the United States Constitution. Later that month the Pentagon transferred him to a medium-security jail at Fort Leavenworth, allowing him to interact with other detainees. He was arraigned in February 2012 at Fort Meade, Maryland, where he declined to enter a plea. The trial is expected to begin in September.[3]

Reaction to his arrest, and to the news that he may face life imprisonment, was mixed. Denver Nicks writes that the material published by WikiLeaks, particularly the diplomatic cables, was widely seen as a catalyst for the Arab Spring that began in December 2010, and that Manning himself was viewed as both a 21st-century Tiananmen Square Tank Man and as an embittered traitor. Several commentators, including The Washington Post, focused on why an apparently very unhappy Army private had access to classified material, and why no security measures were in place to prevent it being copied through unauthorized downloads.[4]

[Nickolai]

Thank you, Wyn!

He seems to be a great guy. So sad that there is nothing I can do to help (it seems).
I often wonder how those troops come home, with those smiles and hugs, greeting their heroes. In fact those are murderers.
I also wonder how do they sleep at night, after killing so many men, women, children.


Sad!

Nickolai

[wynderer]

hi Nikolai -- very sad -- 'sacrifices' to the war machine -- generation after generation, country after country

many of our returning troops are not sleeping well -- there is an alarmingly high suicide rate among these vets

wyn

[Nickolai]

Wyn,

Since I have no idea can you tell me.
Do guys have choice not to go to the Army? Even if not, do they have the right to refuse to kill?
Are they choiceless?

Warmly,

Nickolai

[wynderer]

hi Nikolai --

we do not have the draft here -- it is voluntary

however, our military recruitment stations are most often established in very poor areas -- our ghettos, & other places where there are no jobs -- schools in these areas are also targeted

there are USA citizens protesting against this [not by getting half-naked in churches --smile]

re choice -- like soldiers all over the world, they agree to follow orders -- & , like soldiers all over the world, many come home broken men because of what they saw & what they did by following orders

there is nobility to the warrior code , nevertheless -- loyalty & courage are virtues -- & many soldiers have given their lives for their comrades

not much nobility in killing people from a remotely-operated drone, tho

here's a song from the '60s, when many of us here were protesting our immoral war on the people of Vietnam:
bX7V6FAoTLc

wyn [PS -- i am enjoying this conversation -- ]

[Nickolai]

Hi, Wyn!

thank you, and me also enjoying

Wyn, see, the nobility to the warrior code indeed exists, but only when the army defends its country, when the soldier defends his own motherland.
Surely, there are exceptions, like second world war for example. But then the whole world was in danger...
Wyn, if to go to kill people is a free choice (I actually had no idea that was the case), then many of the forum posts lose their sense (at least for me).
It's understandable that american soldiers help each other to survive but nevertheless it tells me nothing good about them.
I understand that people have no money, but the choice they make is lifelong. For me, it's better be pennyless.

Nickolai

[wynderer]

hi Nikolai --

i am not the only USA citizen who is deeply ashamed of all the wars of conquest & aggression waged by my country, especially since WWII

do you not have an army & many weapons in your country? -- as i see it, the problem is war itself -- the USA just happens to be the dominant military force in the world at this time in history

Che Guavara told the North American Native Peoples that 'they were living in the belly of the beast' -- i take this as the NWO beast --

please take this as a joke: maybe after WWII, we in the USA nabbed more & higher-ranked nazis than your country did, & we therefore have the honor of being in the belly of the NWO [see 'Operation Paperclip']

wyn

[Nickolai]

It seems that nobody here really care, Wyn! Keeping in mind that this man is badly treated and the thread had 530 views, it seems that it was kind of mutual messaging between you and me, Wyn! Keeping in mind that most of the forum is from the States...strange, to say the least!

People choose to discuss how the sex with the astral feels like, and it keeps them reaaly busy..))

Stay very well, friend, after inprisonment!

Warmly from Russia,

Nickolasha

[Flash]

The guy was 22 years old and his life is ruined because he did something he judged fair, correct and humane.

Yes, American on average seem to have judge him without a thread of compassion nor a thread of will for truth. I am truly sorry for him and for the abuse he must have had. Pretty sure he was submitted to quite a few experiments as well.

What can one do about it except following the story and make sure everyone does. Manning is really a case of political prisoner, since he had done thing following a his conscience, as much as the Russian Gulags were full of Russians and other peoples who had followed their conscience. American were despising it, claiming justice and help for these people in Gulags. We now have pretty much the same in America and it is Russian who claim justice and help for the american political prisoners.

Quite ironic isn't it?

[Nickolai]

Thank you, Flash!

I really feel great about this guy buy keeping in mind that he is caught in this monsterous american military machine keeps me desperate. what can we do? Can we?

Nickolai

[Flash]

apart from signing petitions and being put on a list of potential future goulags residents, I do not think we can do much more. Half America hates him as they hate Assange, an other 25% are not aware of him and maybe 20% are confused about him while 4% think there is something wrong there and 1% definitly know there is something wrong.

If you talk to Americans, this is how it feels believe me.

I think the only true help has to come from abroad first, as in the time of USSR, American and others from the outside had to take some cases as their pet case to get people out or prison.

[Nickolai]

Can someone call the truthkeeper, Mr Alex Jones asking him to give a real hand to someone in need?
The whole this bulls*t talk he leads.... I just wonder!

On the other hand didn't those 50% of US people watch the real proof the american democracy, not on american, soil is just a pure murder? Or what?
I have no idea what is going on. It makes no sense. The most of the conspiracy material comes from the States. US people have no idea about it, right? If so then the whole conspiracy is intended for the outside of the US. Wow!

Dear Flash, it is so so sad!

[SilentFeathers]

There's no way they will let him walk....."They" are sicko's and psychopathic criminals worse than this young dude could ever imagine being.

[Nickolai]

The question to those who support this nazi-AJ:

If Assange/Manning are disinfo, why then the real guy, the beauty in the night gawns, Mr AJ, has never ever broadcasted ANYTHING like that?
I remember asking the question: why AJ is never indangered. The reply was: They will never dare since he is so popular and dear to the american public.
Here is the biggy question: if these blondie is so popular, why he never gets his big *ss into the real business. Since they, the mythical PTB, won't dare. Why not to establish the business as Assange did. Why not show to the USA what the real thing the States doing elsewhere in the world? Tell me. I really came here to educate myself.
But if the american public is not willing to know what their SONS and DAUGHTERS do oversees (and they just slaughter), then I am sorry, the United States of America deserves the darkest ages they predict.


Those in the states, who care and who trust Alex Jones, call him. Enough of the Boghemian Groove. Bullocks! The guy named Manning is tortured and if the AJ helps, God bless him.
Somehow I am sure, he won't get involved....

Intersting...

[Flash]

You are forgetting one thing Nicolai, Russia was in Afganistan for 10 years as well and it was disgustingly bloody as well. Do not forget that we may not trust here a Putin or another one from the Russian Federation more than our own PTB. Calling for "lets show US citizens" from a Russian will most probably gain very little empathy out west.

Is Russia in the dark ages actually, and yet, they are as guilty. So why wish it to the US citizens?

Why not call off war altogether instead and why not ask for full protection for whistle blowers instead.

[Nickolai]

Dear Flash,

In Afganistan, if I remember correctly, there was a war between americans and russians on the afganistan soil. You can add here Vietnam as well. That would be stupid of Russia not to take part in the war, since the Afganistan is just at the borders of ex-USSR. I have nothing to say about the Vietnam though.
Still, as you have started the disput, can you tell me the wars Russia took part on a sovereign soil, ok, after the USSR fell apart? Georgia? Chechnya? I am sure I have a different picture on those matters.
If we talk about the States, let's see what the US government has for Russia. Look at the map of Russia and countries around it and honestly say where the NATO and US are absent. They are mostly everywhere.
You see, the point here is that if people in the States say that they can not help the situation with the wars (for who is fighting in the army, not Bushes, not Clintons, no Obamas), if they can not defend the people who rise against the system...in the country that leads the terror in the world. Do we have any chances?
I support whistleblowers on facebook through Assange page. I have no idea how to support Manning, that is why I ask here. I have no fear to be known (they know..)) but I just don't know how.

Nickolai

[Flash]

I am not into any dispute. I am sure you see things differently from a westerners, no doubts.

I am only saying that you will make no points here, and out in the west, by saying "lets show them, the Americans". If you want to argue of "dispute" you will do it alone Nicolai, certainly not with me.

In the west, we do not see political fights as you do in the East. Argumenting for the sake of argument or for understanding is seen as intelligent discussion and is welcomed in the East. Not necessarily in the West. American are very patriotic, and you cannot talk against them or their country and make any gain at the same time. I have seen an Easterner for example, trying to flirt an American girl by putting down America and trying to strike a discussion on the bad deeds of America. I had to hold my mouth to avoid telling him to shut up, he was killing his chance by the second (not get the girl). I did not say anything because it was in a business context (which was yet more inappropriate in westerners views).

And I am telling you this as a good French Canadian who has much more experience with Americans than you might. We are here in cross cultural context and people do not think the same way or behave the same way all over the world.

This forum is also predominantly American and British. You want friends,... or you want to be listened to, don't provoke. But you may ask questions.

[Carmody]

There were times and even now, the odd time...I have had the bad taste.... to get them (the anti-world thinking of westerners mostly.. or whomever, in some cases) angry.

Then I poke them in the eye (I).

Hard.

[Nickolai]

Dear Flash, I agree, that was inappropriate.
But then the question stays the same. How to stop the american invasion?I just can not get the oicture. Do you mean that americans have no idea that they invade countries that have nothing to do with them? Don't the soldiers know what they are doing? Are the people totally brain-washed?
I ask it without any hidden conext. I just really can not understand.
And in order to understand I want to know do those soldiers reallly believe that they bring democracy to the world.
I really would like to get the picture for this stuff is hugely discussed here. The rating of the US is very low. Oppositely, many russians immigrated to the States in the 90s.

Nickolai

[Nickolai]

Hi,

A friend of mine has sent me the link: http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/usa-war-on-terror/762-us-wars-have-killed-10-million-in-the-past-60-years-why

And I understand that in the States people go to army to get their bread so to speak. I still wonder how much money it requires to kill a child/unarmed man/woman. The point here that keeping in mind that the situation in the states gets darker day by day, I wonder why people think that the army won't fight the people in their homeland. You see, following this logic, the only question is how much money they will pay for that. That's sad...

Nickolai

[wynderer]

Occupy Charlotte DNC Protest Crosses the Red Line – Live Reports from We Are Change

[from the article: Bradley Manning is not forgotten]
'A group of close to 200 protesters have begun to protest near the Democratic National Convention, with citizens crossing the red line in an un permitted protest of the treatment of Bradley Manning and the overall U.S. war machine.'

Occupy Charlotte DNC Protest Crosses the Red Line – Live Reports from We Are Change
http://theintelhub.com/2012/09/04/occupy-charlotte-dnc-protest-crosses-the-red-line-live-reports-from-we-are-change/


Read the Daily Intel Hub News Brief:

Military Veterans Hold Flag in Distress During Protest inside the DNC red line.
theintelhub.com
September 4, 2012

Update 4:20pm: Two-hour standoff ends; protesters on the move

From the Charlotte Observer:

Earlier in the afternoon, as about 200 marchers tried to make their way up Stonewall Street, a crowd of about 300 police officers surrounded them, completely blocking off the intersection of Stonewall and Caldwell streets.

Protesters pitched a tent at the ordinarily busy intersection.

The protests, some of them war veterans, spoke out on a variety of issues and called for the release of Bradley Manning, the U.S. Army soldier suspected of leaking classified information to the website WikiLeaks.

The standoff between police and protesters was about a block from the Charlotte Convention Center, where thousands of members of the press have gathered.

Update 1:06pm: Police helicopters flying overhead, entire area almost completely blocked off.

Update 1:03pm: Officers are moving towards the protesters in what very well could result in confrontation.

Update 12:55pm: – Luke is reporting that the protesters seem to be close to being encircled by a perimeter of police officers.

Update 12:51pm EST: A veteran who attempted to cross the police line was grabbed by police and taken away. Citizens yell at police for directly working for the power structure rather than the people.

…..

A group of close to 200 protesters have begun to protest near the Democratic National Convention, with citizens crossing the red line in an un permitted protest of the treatment of Bradley Manning and the overall U.S. war machine.



Luke Rudkowski is streaming live from scene and is giving play by play updates on the events as they happen.

“Free Manning arrest Barack”

“Bring the troops home now”

Dozens of bike police are in the area and escorting the protesters who are walking right next to fences that have been erected during the large scale security buildup that has taken place in and around Charlotte.

Riot gear has been seen and may be set to be unleashed on the protesters as police can been seen gathering around the occupiers.

http://theintelhub.com/2012/09/04/occupy-charlotte-dnc-protest-crosses-the-red-line-live-reports-from-we-are-change/

[TargeT]

Just so you know, this "story" (bradley manning and his "whistle blowing" ) is very probably false, this entire situation was set up to secure the public's belief in "wiki leaks" which is also a CO-INTEL operation. I work with classified systems and have for years & will tell you there is NO WAY what we were told happen actually happened, every detail of the story I can debunk with "common sense" procedures that anyone who's ever worked in a communications center would know ( or a TOC or a Jump TOC, any of them).

I would seriously reconsider supporting, or even wasting mental energy on this topic... it is designed to invoke emotion, to confuse & to support an informational false flag.:tinfoil3:

I'm not alone in this observation & I think it is worth knowing the truth of this situation before you commit any more focus or time to it.

[ThePythonicCow]

Just so you know, this "story" (bradley manning and his "whistle blowing" ) is very probably false, this entire situation was set up to secure the public's belief in "wiki leaks" which is also a CO-INTEL operation.
Thanks for the heads-up, TargeT.

[Marsila]

Yes TargetT but other people who also have years working with classified systems, but not for the country of concern here, can say the exact opposite, and with 'common sense' refute those who say that this is all 'planned'....if anything this is a strategy when they can't fix the damage, pretend they caused it, the US has done that in so many occasions in the past(A very creative way of the 'if you can't win them 'join' them technique)...
anyway we could both be right and we could both be wrong, no one has a monopoly on the truth, and you should encourage people to do their own diligence, than to just listen to others, but yes less emotion is always more helpful.

I loved this video by Howard Zinn that was posted...shame how it is the young American pilot who really knew what was going on whose plane got shot and killed in world war 2, can you imagine the input of his energies if he had gone back home.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FM4zkHCKT08

[Nickolai]

Wait a second, TargetT!

Point by point please explain the profit of those disinfo.
Do you mean that the whole Manning story is a myth and this guy lives peacefully somewhere on Bahamas?
That American soldiers never killed peaceful people, children the way it was shown in the video, just for the joy and sake of sharpening their art of shooting?
Exactly what do you mean. And can you be sure 100%?


I would I ask you a question, can you absolutely be sure that the whole disinfo approach is right?

I really would like to know what you think on the subject, TargetT.

My thoughts are:
Although I can not be sure that the whole story is true I support Manning as a symbol of the story that could be true. Same about the Assange case. Does that make sense to you? What to believe then.
One can sit and name all the stuff as false . What about change then?
I can tell you one thing. I am not 100% sure that what they talk about the Elite is true, same about ETs, the depopulation stuff and so on. Everything is opinions you see.

Just speak you mind, please.
Ask yourself what if the whole manning story is the scary truth.

Nickolai

[jaybee]

Just so you know, this "story" (bradley manning and his "whistle blowing" ) is very probably false, this entire situation was set up to secure the public's belief in "wiki leaks" which is also a CO-INTEL operation.


we all have to make our own judgements about what's going on...

and my judgement of your comment above is.....BS




I would seriously reconsider supporting, or even wasting mental energy on this topic... it is designed to invoke emotion, to confuse & to support an informational false flag.:tinfoil3:

I'm not alone in this observation & I think it is worth knowing the truth of this situation before you commit any more focus or time to it.


except you could be utterly wrong about your 'knowing the truth of this situation'

which I think you are

sorry and all that...

but

As the Manning Affair and the Assange legal fiasco is reaching a kind of drawn out climax...it would be very convenient for people to switch off right now...

.

[Limor Wolf]

originally posted by Target: "Just so you know, this "story" (bradley manning and his "whistle blowing" ) is very probably false, this entire situation was set up to secure the public's belief in "wiki leaks" which is also a CO-INTEL operation"

Hi TargeT, I have nothing to support you on this, but my own strong intuative feeling. I have not indulged in details of the Wikileaks releases or on Julian Assange Or Brad Manning, beyond the initial research and refused to be updated or cheer the 'so called' information leaked out to the public. This saga, I believe is orchestrated in order to meet the needs of a population that is awakening to a reality of worldly manipulations and corrupt behind the scenes and simply glad that someone is doing the battle for them.

I posted This in 2010 :

"There is a need to be carefull here about assange...the man might be a hero or a complete puppet, not much in between. although there is a third chance that his intentions are good but they (PTB) are heavily hitchhiking on his back...
there are a few more red light that make a food for thought:

Wikileaks were showing documents that a WMD was found in iraq, wich might give some justification to the American invasion. up till than there was no evidence whatsoever that iraq held any
weapons of mass destruction, actually it was a well known joke that nothing was ever found.

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/24/wikileaks-documents-show-wmds-found-in-iraq/

It's never good to rely on one source and I dont seem to find any backing for this kind of claim,and it all might be very innocent,still...

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-has-close-links-to-the-economist-controlled-by-the-rothschild-banking-family/

I still feel the same, and I am backing you up on this

[jaybee]

.

Limor....both of your links are coming up 'not found' for me....

And I would like to add that MY intuition tells me (strongly)...that there is nothing dodgey about Manning OR Assange....

It is only logical that TPTB would try to turn people against them....

[Limor Wolf]

I understand your POV, Jaybee. we're not holding the rope from two opposite ends. we all need to decide for ourselvs, it is a confusing world out there..

I have corrected the links. Thank you

[jaybee]

I understand your POV, Jaybee. we're not holding the rope from two opposite ends.

I would love to reciprocate and say that I understand your POV....but I am tired of all the unnecessary paranoia that is injected into conspiracy forums...although I understand that it is par for the course.....:)




we all need to decide for ourselvs,

Indeed we do...on that we can agree


it is a confusing world out there..

not half as confusing as it is 'in here'...lol... (if you don't keep your wits about you)



I have corrected the links. Thank you

you're welcome

.

[wynderer]

Collateral Murder - Bradley Manning Leaked Video Clip.

Yw442y2fTeU

[jaybee]

Collateral Murder - Bradley Manning Leaked Video Clip.

Yw442y2fTeU


Thanks wynderer....

If anyone thinks that a 'CO-INTELL' operation would promote and encourage this video to be made public...then I think they are way off base.

:(



.

[ThePythonicCow]

If anyone thinks that a 'CO-INTELL' operation would promote and encourage this video to be made public...then I think they are way off base.
Co-Intel operations often contain elements of truth, sometimes compelling and seemingly damaging elements of truth.

[Nickolai]

OK, then Paul!

Following the logic why not suppose the whole so-called "truth" about 911 was a Co-Intel operation? Prove me wrong? Can you? Where these knowledge of Co-Intel come from?
Then the whole HAARP thing is Co-Intel, same with MK-Ultra and the Elite stuff. That would be quite good for them to install a legend about all powerful, omnipresent and dangerous organization.
I am confused now since I never actually thought in this direction....

Nickolai

[ThePythonicCow]

Following the logic why not suppose the whole so-called "truth" about 911 was a Co-Intel operation? Prove me wrong? Can you? Where these knowledge of Co-Intel come from?
Then the whole HAARP thing is Co-Intel, same with MK-Ultra and the Elite stuff. That would be quite good for them to install a legend about all powerful, omnipresent and dangerous organization.
I suspect at least some of the operations you list have substantial Co-Intel, aka COINTELPRO, origins :).

My views on this continue to evolve, but for example I'd guess that most of the leading initiatives in the 9/11 truther movement are COINTELPRO, or at least unwittingly serving the purposes of COINTELPRO ...

As to proof ... well that's a little harder to come by.

[wynderer]

from the WarIsCrime website, & a quote from the article -- the demos going on today, Sept 6th:

'A wide variety of organizations have joined in calling for actions on this date, including the Bradley Manning Support Network, Veterans for Peace, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Afghans for Peace, and the Alliance for Global Justice.'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomorrow: veterans and activists to rally for Bradley Manning at Obama campaign offices in 33 cities nationwide

By davidswanson - Posted on 05 September 2012

Veterans, antiwar activists and other supporters of accused WikiLeaks whistle-blower PFC Bradley Manning will protest nationwide tomorrow following President Obama's failure to respond to a letter from veterans which asks the President to account for Manning's abusive pretrial confinement conditions and to pardon him. Supporters will rally at Obama reelection campaign offices in 33 cities demanding Bradley's freedom. Plans for local actions range from rallies and marches outside a local office to entering an office to deliver the letter and occupying inside.

You can find more information for each city here, as well as contact information for local organizers.


Michael Thurman of Iraq Veterans Against the War, who was arrested at a similar protest on August 16, says, “President Obama has ignored our requests, continuing the election-year silence on the highest-profile whistle-blower of our generation. Tomorrow, we'll make our voices heard and remind him that we won't stand for Bradley's imprisonment, and we won't forget his torture at Quantico."


A wide variety of organizations have joined in calling for actions on this date, including the Bradley Manning Support Network, Veterans for Peace, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Afghans for Peace, and the Alliance for Global Justice.


At Ft. Meade last week, the Government handed over 600 emails from Quantico regarding Bradley’s confinement conditions, after holding on to them for six months. On November 27, defense lawyer David Coombs will bring a motion to dismiss charges based on unlawful pretrial punishment, which UN torture chief Juan Mendez called “cruel, inhuman and degrading.” The court martial trial itself is scheduled to begin February 4, 2013 – Bradley’s 988th day in jail.

http://warisacrime.org/content/tomorrow-veterans-and-activists-rally-bradley-manning-obama-campaign-offices-33-cities-natio

[Nickolai]

But nevertheless when I think about the guy who was captured, tortured with no way to get out, I really want the situation change.
Those bastards in the Army are making me sick with disgust. The only recall of the Abu Ghraib tortures makes human speechless.
So, if they could do it with guiltless muslims, I can not even imagine what they are doing to thois guy who is officially an enemy of the USA.
Manning is especially unlucky cos he is gay. That would add to the situation.

Nickolai

[wynderer]

But nevertheless when I think about the guy who was captured, tortured with no way to get out, I really want the situation change.
Those bastards in the Army are making me sick with disgust. The only recall of the Abu Ghraib tortures makes human speechless.
So, if they could do it with guiltless muslims, I can not even imagine what they are doing to thois guy who is officially an enemy of the USA.
Manning is especially unlucky cos he is gay. That would add to the situation.

Nickolai

hi Nikolai -- all soldiers in all wars in all countries either take part in or witness rape, torture, & murder [unless they have cushy office/behind the line jobs]

bX7V6FAoTLc

[ThePythonicCow]

Those bastards in the Army are making me sick with disgust.
Indeed, that is the compelling conclusion from this story ... as it has become known to us.

A good COINTELPRO operation is like a good magic act ... something to distract all viewers, regardless of their perspectives.

One needs to attempt to identify and look past the distractions, while not denying one's humanity and compassion or other valued aspects, while being alert for the risk of labeling as a distraction what might be the essence of the occult operation.

Tricky stuff ...

[wynderer]

wanted to bump this so it did not get overlooked -- war is a Human problem



But nevertheless when I think about the guy who was captured, tortured with no way to get out, I really want the situation change.
Those bastards in the Army are making me sick with disgust. The only recall of the Abu Ghraib tortures makes human speechless.
So, if they could do it with guiltless muslims, I can not even imagine what they are doing to thois guy who is officially an enemy of the USA.
Manning is especially unlucky cos he is gay. That would add to the situation.

Nickolai

hi Nikolai -- all soldiers in all wars in all countries either take part in or witness rape, torture, & murder [unless they have cushy office/behind the line jobs]

bX7V6FAoTLc

[Nickolai]

Dear Wyn,
Indeed you are right.
I am aware about the disgusting acts of russians during the war.

happy you are back!

[Nickolai]

Do you know Mr Galloway?

Here what he says in support of Bradley Manning:

Galloway condemns the UK on Manning torture

British MP George Galloway has condemned the UK government for supporting the United States on the persecution of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and the torture of Bradley Manning.


In the Comment political program broadcasted on Thursday Septemper 6, Galloway criticized the current state of the US army soldier, Bradley Manning, who has been given a prison sentence of 50 years and is alleged to have given information to WikiLeaks.

The British MP also stated that Manning is Welsh by nationality but is currently being tortured in a US prison, saying, “Bradley Manning should be getting a Nobel Prize instead of being tortured and what is the British government doing about this torture of the Welshman, Bradley Manning? What they’re doing, is intriguing and plotting with the Swedish government and the US government to send Julian Assange to join him on the torture tables and in solitary confinement for the next 50 years. And we call ourselves the land of the free.”

The UK government has vowed it will not allow Assange a safe passage out of Britain. UK officials warned that Assange will be arrested if he tried to leave the Ecuadorean embassy in London, which granted him political asylum in August.

Galloway has been the only British MP to openly oppose the torture of Manning and praise the WikiLeaks founder for revelaing the US diplomatic cables.


Source: http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/08/260494/galloway-condemns-uk-on-manning-torture/
Nickolai

[TargeT]

(A very creative way of the 'if you can't win them 'join' them technique)...
anyway we could both be right and we could both be wrong, no one has a monopoly on the truth, and you should encourage people to do their own diligence, than to just listen to others, but yes less emotion is always more helpful.


Funny, that is exactly what I think is happening here, if you review wikileaks it is a very very "pro war" collection of information, everything there (beyond a few bait and switch attention getters) lends to the idea that we need more troops and if only we had A or B then C would happen.

which is contrary to what I observed while deployed (also why I disbelieve this "wikileaks" and all its soap opera drama)


Wait a second, TargetT!

Point by point please explain the profit of those disinfo.
More funding for the war effort, more troops, and suspision shed on countries we aren't currently fighting (Iran / Pakistan for example).. this is HUGE profit, the US spends (above the table) 600billion a year on "defense" that doesn't even include the extra "war funding" bills that pass year after year, we are talking billions of dollars here, not much else has that high of profit.


Do you mean that the whole Manning story is a myth and this guy lives peacefully somewhere on Bahamas?
Oh no, he is very probably in jail & wrongly so (because he very probably did nothing.) the show doesn't work with out some convincing hooks, what is one young man sarcrificed when compared to perceived high return.


That American soldiers never killed peaceful people, children the way it was shown in the video, just for the joy and sake of sharpening their art of shooting?
Exactly what do you mean. And can you be sure 100%?

that's just the tip of the iceburg, it's much worse than you will ever know (in that sense); on one hand I think its a terrible thing, on the other hand I have to ask the question: what are you doing sending warriors to be peace keepers or occupiers? we are not trained to be friendly, we are not trained to win "hearts and minds" (with the exception of the Propaganda folks (excuse me.. Public Affairs.... haha) and (Slightly) the M.P.s (military police)) we are trained to blow **** up and kill people, the Army is a destructive force that should be exactly what it is (though much smaller and NOT spread all over the world). We should have a nasty group of individuals that are highly trained and equipped that are feared if used, but are ONLY used for actual defense (this does not include preemptive anything...)



I would I ask you a question, can you absolutely be sure that the whole disinfo approach is right?
I really would like to know what you think on the subject, TargetT.

I am absolutely sure of almost nothing, but I am very close to this topic and have been since 1999; I am simply sharing my insight on situations that "civilians" will have a very hard time understanding.



My thoughts are:
Although I can not be sure that the whole story is true I support Manning as a symbol of the story that could be true. Same about the Assange case. Does that make sense to you? What to believe then.
One can sit and name all the stuff as false . What about change then?
I can tell you one thing. I am not 100% sure that what they talk about the Elite is true, same about ETs, the depopulation stuff and so on. Everything is opinions you see.

Just speak you mind, please.
Ask yourself what if the whole manning story is the scary truth.

Nickolai

All CO-INTEL ops must have a certain aspect of truth to be pulled off, I think the situation is very much like what actually happens, but it has to be so dis-info can be spread.





.

Limor....both of your links are coming up 'not found' for me....

And I would like to add that MY intuition tells me (strongly)...that there is nothing dodgey about Manning OR Assange....

It is only logical that TPTB would try to turn people against them....

Ask your self this: how many media companies on TV are there, who owns them?

Do you think that the military industrial complex does not include the media?

What stories get covered by the media mostly, do they agree with the military industrial complex or go against it in any way?

This is just the start of where you could easily question the attention the situation has gotten, the situation itself & its amazingly drawn out never quite conclusion, conclusion.... there are many other questions