split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

[ThePythonicCow]

This thread was formed by splitting off some posts from the Horus-Ra as the Archontic Alien Parasite: A follow-up interview with Maarit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=541554&viewfull=1#post541554) thread, for members to continue the discussion of conduct on that thread.

The next 7 posts below were moved here from the above thread, to start this thread.

[Heartsong]

Bill,
Putting 9eagle9 out with a reprimand and a suspension seems unfair. Many, I think you'll find, support her and her ways.

She sees people as allowing themselves to be victims and wishes better for them. She sees them entrenched in belief systems that are doing themselves harm. She is blunt and direct because she cares.

On a personal level, one to one, she is a warm caring person. I had the honor of staying at her home when my husband and I were traveling near there.

She knows whereof she speaks because she has lived it. It's an opinion born of experience, an intelligence laced with wisdom.
She has added much to Avalon, you don't want to lose her.
She's one of the most "real", authentic members you have.

[Christine]

Hello all,

I have not taken time to express my opinion, gratitude and respect to Houman and the rest of the regular posters on this thread. While I have not found the words or perhaps the time yet to open myself and express my insights and experiences I have found an enormous amount of information here, helping me put together the many pieces of my personal story.

This thread is ultimately exploring and exposing the most sensitive area for it goes straight to the heart of the beast. For this reason I believe that everyone should feel safe to explore their experiences on this thread. This is an open forum and if there is a hint of ridicule or any sense of being attacked it is most likely members will not post here any longer. It is sad to me that wynderer felt it was necessary to remove her posts.

Isn't ridicule a tool in the kit of the handlers? Can we stop ourselves long enough to realize that every time we ridicule, self aggrandize, and make sport of another person that we ourselves are playing straight into the hands of those who would have us fail. This is a question of personal ethics.

I love irony, I even enjoy a degree of sarcasm and bring on the wit... but let us not degrade ourselves by directing those barbs at each other. There is enough material in the matrix / media for these diversions.

Now back to topic. And thanks to all of you who have had the courage to publish your story, who have had the will to confront and who have the strength to overcome.

Christine, feeling very tigerish today.

[Christine]

Bill,
Putting 9eagle9 out with a reprimand and a suspension seems unfair. Many, I think you'll find, support her and her ways.

She sees people as allowing themselves to be victims and wishes better for them. She sees them entrenched in belief systems that are doing themselves harm. She is blunt and direct because she cares.

On a personal level, one to one, she is a warm caring person. I had the honor of staying at her home when my husband and I were traveling near there.

She knows whereof she speaks because she has lived it. It's an opinion born of experience, an intelligence laced with wisdom.
She has added much to Avalon, you don't want to lose her.
She's one of the most "real", authentic members you have.

Agreed, we do not want to lose her either, nor do we wish to lose others that are more sensitive. I too have a great deal of experience and wisdom, so does NancyV, so does justoneman, so does Daughter of Time, so does AmzerZo, and so does Bill Ryan... and many more members I am sure.

What moderation means is moderating ones self. There are occasions that need the wit, irony and intelligence of a 9eagle9 but there are other sensibilities to be considered too. On a personal level I would like to experience her warmth and caring, we all know it is there. She has earned a tremendous amount of respect and consideration from the mod team.

The other side of the equation is that her sometimes insensitive nature has taken up most of our band width. (yes, SilentFeathers) Much has been discussed, the last discussion on fairness was when we vacationed viking and not 9eagle9... fair one would ask? Sometimes there is no fairness... we strive to find what is best for the forum as a whole.

Christine

:focus:

[modwiz]

There is no question, this is a very important thread.

Important to who, is another question.

[Sebastion]

I agree with this post completely! They don't come any more authentic, real than 9eagle9. She has shared vast and in depth wisdom on this forum. It may be some tough love at times but her words make sound wisdom and empower people to stand up for themselves.




Bill,
Putting 9eagle9 out with a reprimand and a suspension seems unfair. Many, I think you'll find, support her and her ways.

She sees people as allowing themselves to be victims and wishes better for them. She sees them entrenched in belief systems that are doing themselves harm. She is blunt and direct because she cares.

On a personal level, one to one, she is a warm caring person. I had the honor of staying at her home when my husband and I were traveling near there.

She knows whereof she speaks because she has lived it. It's an opinion born of experience, an intelligence laced with wisdom.
She has added much to Avalon, you don't want to lose her.
She's one of the most "real", authentic members you have.

[modwiz]

Bill,
Putting 9eagle9 out with a reprimand and a suspension seems unfair. Many, I think you'll find, support her and her ways.

She sees people as allowing themselves to be victims and wishes better for them. She sees them entrenched in belief systems that are doing themselves harm. She is blunt and direct because she cares.

On a personal level, one to one, she is a warm caring person. I had the honor of staying at her home when my husband and I were traveling near there.

She knows whereof she speaks because she has lived it. It's an opinion born of experience, an intelligence laced with wisdom.
She has added much to Avalon, you don't want to lose her.
She's one of the most "real", authentic members you have.

I agree with everything you say here, except taking Bill to task. It's his forum and his vision. It is his to decide who interrupts the course this project takes. I do not question his motives.

I think this forum will be emptier without her, but that is just my selfish take on things. I am a passenger on this ship and not its' captain.

[Rocky_Shorz]

flamers actually pull people forward that would normally quietly lurk in the background, I have to admit I hated when she pointed her cannons and unloaded at me, but it fired me up enough to always reply...

this is a very heavy topic and it's summer, it's time she stepped out, took a break to dust off her wings...

I'm hoping she comes back to join us, maybe we could install a foam mallet over her computer that will drop on her head each time she gets a little too wound up... ;)

[Bill Ryan]

Bill,
Putting 9eagle9 out with a reprimand and a suspension seems unfair. Many, I think you'll find, support her and her ways.

She sees people as allowing themselves to be victims and wishes better for them. She sees them entrenched in belief systems that are doing themselves harm. She is blunt and direct because she cares.

On a personal level, one to one, she is a warm caring person. I had the honor of staying at her home when my husband and I were traveling near there.

She knows whereof she speaks because she has lived it. It's an opinion born of experience, an intelligence laced with wisdom.
She has added much to Avalon, you don't want to lose her.
She's one of the most "real", authentic members you have.

Thanks for this post. I do not disagree.

A short time ago, I realized and learned the following from a wise friend.

You, and I, and everyone reading this, are all invisible. As spirits, we have no substance.

The only way we can be directly perceived is through what we do. That is how we project our presence on the physical world. That's the only evidence for who we are and what we stand for.

If someone means well, and is warm and caring, then that needs to be evidenced and visible through that person's actions. Thoughts and intentions alone don't cut it.

I don't doubt that 9eagle9 is a well-intentioned person. I believe what you say. But the way she communicates does not work. And if a person is continuing to do the same thing, always hoping for a different result than the one that's predominantly occurred thus far, this is not a mark of wisdom or intelligence.

[another bob]

“Civility means a great deal more than just being nice to one another. It is complex and encompasses learning how to connect successfully and live well with others, developing thoughtfulness, and fostering effective self-expression and communication. Civility includes courtesy, politeness, mutual respect, fairness, good manners, as well as a matter of good health.

Don’t discount the power of your words. The thought that they might cause unnecessary hurt or discomfort should inform every conversation.”

~ P.M. Forni

[ThePythonicCow]

One should work with the permission of others ... one might even find a use for rough or blunt treatment, if the other permits it. Such might even be the best treatment then.

But from what I can tell, and from the reactions I see from some others, 9eagle9 was not always working with the permission of those she was trying to "teach".

[SilentFeathers]

One should work with the permission of others ... one might even find a use for rough or blunt treatment, if the other permits it. Such might even be the best treatment then.

But from what I can tell, and from the reactions I see from some others, 9eagle9 was not always working with the permission of those she was trying to "teach".

There may of been more going on with her than we know ....pushing her away may have not been the best medicine. She is pretty wise though, the vacation may of actually been her choice, ya'all possibly may of just played in to her hand so to speak.

Anyways, hope she comes back.

[ThePythonicCow]

There may of been more going on with her than we know ....pushing her away may have not been the best medicine. She is pretty wise though, the vacation may of actually been her choice, ya'all possibly may of just played in to her hand so to speak.

Anyways, hope she comes back.
There are always cross currents in such matters. The water does not flow smoothly when you're white water rafting.

Such is life.

[SilentFeathers]

There may of been more going on with her than we know ....pushing her away may have not been the best medicine. She is pretty wise though, the vacation may of actually been her choice, ya'all possibly may of just played in to her hand so to speak.

Anyways, hope she comes back.
There are always cross currents in such matters. The water does not flow smoothly when you're white water rafting.

Such is life.

Can't say she doesn't know how to produce a ripple effect, even in class 5 rapids! :)

[truth4me]

Bill,
Putting 9eagle9 out with a reprimand and a suspension seems unfair. Many, I think you'll find, support her and her ways.

She sees people as allowing themselves to be victims and wishes better for them. She sees them entrenched in belief systems that are doing themselves harm. She is blunt and direct because she cares.

On a personal level, one to one, she is a warm caring person. I had the honor of staying at her home when my husband and I were traveling near there.

She knows whereof she speaks because she has lived it. It's an opinion born of experience, an intelligence laced with wisdom.
She has added much to Avalon, you don't want to lose her.
She's one of the most "real", authentic members you have.

I agree with everything you say here, except taking Bill to task. It's his forum and his vision. It is his to decide who interrupts the course this project takes. I do not question his motives.

I think this forum will be emptier without her, but that is just my selfish take on things. I am a passenger on this ship and not its' captain.
Modwiz whats the deal with you? You always seem to make a lot of sense in your post's and reply's.......

[Rocky_Shorz]

One should work with the permission of others ... one might even find a use for rough or blunt treatment, if the other permits it. Such might even be the best treatment then.

But from what I can tell, and from the reactions I see from some others, 9eagle9 was not always working with the permission of those she was trying to "teach".

I think of her as the Archie Bunker of Spirituality...


she just needs to work a little on her Punch lines... ;)

[Cristian]

Hi guys .

I’m new to this forum.
I admit it was this kind of threads that pushed me into trying to register for the third time.

Now…just a few words...
I don’t like 9eagle9’s ways of expressing her ideas. I learned the hard way the need and truth in being humble. You do have to consider facts like other people feelings, fears and limitations.
That being said, I do think she is spot on with A LOT of things , first and most important the need to grow up from the victim mindset. Yes this is key in my opinion when dealing with ugly dudes.

I don’t know, or don’t remember any UFO incidents , but I do have some experiences in dealing with demonic entities. And yes , fear and the victim status are the first things one needs to get rid of.

There is nothing , and I mean nothing that can get to you if you have no fear and smile and shine love . This is very important.

===

[Mod-edit:

The above post was once the part of a longer post. I have split the longer post into two parts, moving one to this thread, and leaving the other part in its original location, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=541691&viewfull=1#post541691). The original had responses to what are now two separate discussions, on two separate threads, which is why I did the split.

Welcome to the forum, Chris82 :).

- Paul.]

[Daughter of Time]

My first interaction with 9eagle9 was very unpleasant. I felt judged and hurt by her.

Eventually I came to understand that she meant well. She is a very knowledgeable and wise woman. I've gained a great deal of respect for her and that will not change.

Unfortunately, when someone doesn't understand her lectures, she takes out the whip! And whips hurt! I know she does this because she wants to "whip" people into shape. She truly does mean to help in freeing people from the victimized state to a state of freedom. So her intentions are noble and admirable, but the compassion is missing. When someone is deeply hurt, compassion is the first thing that should be exercised and little bit of it goes a long way.

I do hope she comes back because she is a very valuable member of this community and she would be sadly missed.

[observer]

Moved from the Horus-Ra thread by observer for obvious reasons. To see NancyV's comment #1860 its entirety, click-on the forwarding arrow.

[....snip]
The theme of this thread, and I've read every post, may be a lot more all encompassing than you seem to grasp or acknowledge.
[....snip]
I'm probably not alone in reacting to attempts to shame, blame or control me and others with a thought that consists of two words, when boiled down to its essence.
[....snip]
The words I use and mean when I say them are F U. Behind that FU is an absolute refusal to let myself be used.

I may be totally off-base here, NancyV, but the way I read this comment is that you are, in essence, telling me to go FU myself.

The point of all the comments I have made within the Horus-Ra thread, and many other threads on this website, have been to cast light on the understanding that our thoughts are being controlled telepathically.

Many members subscribe to the idea that our thoughts create our reality. This "theme" is generally the result of either, personal experiences, or channeled information coming from the Astral. This, in my humble opinion, and supported by the evidence all the way back to the Dawn of Man, is BULL$HIT !!!

The Horus-Ra thread is an evidential trail of how our thoughts are being controlled telepathically.

If one truly believes their thoughts create their own reality, than I ask (once again) to explain how the Afghani woman sitting in the bombed-out rubble of her home, holding her dead infant child had anything to do with thoughts creating one's own reality.

I believe this is the 'guilt trip' you are referring to. In your most recent comments in the Horus-
Ra thread.

It's not a 'guilt trip', it's a legitimate point of reference in debate with the concept that we all create our own reality. This 'guilt trip' comment from Sabastion to wynderer is what set-off the attack on wynderer.

The comment made by Sabastion which, I believe was deleted:
"Sorry Wynderer but I am not buying into your victim/prison paradigm, not today, not tomorrow, not ever!"
And, I believe, my reply to Sabastion is the basis for what you are saying in your above quoted comment #1860.

This point of reference, which was characterized as a "guilt trip" by many of those attacking wynderer has everything to do with the topic in Horus-Ra thread.

If I'm incorrect, than I publicly apologize to you for misreading your intention.

- update -


Click-on forwarding arrow to see observer's clarification to statments made in this comment.

[Hervé]

Although I must admit that 9eagle9 administers very bitter medicine to most, it is not wynderer's first attempt at putting "you humans" down either:


[...]

I am shaking my head upon exiting this thread but not surprised. I am going to be in other threads to share where I can but mostly learn and exchange ideas, which one can only do with an open mind.
It is a waste of time and energy having a debate [with] people that frame a debate for the sake of debate and not frame of reference on a subject or with a someone that desperately clings to the delusional belief that they are a spiritually superior “reptilian hybrid” “visitor” “not from this planet” that “doesn't understand” us/or “You Humans” that they are here on a mission to “wake up”? This is a non Human who has pickled their brain on several of up to “3 year” “alcoholic binges” and who knows what else (ALL Their words not mine)?

[...]

It took me a while to figure out who Corey was talking about and where all these quotes came from but I did.

[Daughter of Time]

Although I must admit that 9eagle9 administers very bitter medicine to most, it is not wynderer's first attempt at putting "you humans" down either:


[...]

I am shaking my head upon exiting this thread but not surprised. I am going to be in other threads to share where I can but mostly learn and exchange ideas, which one can only do with an open mind.
It is a waste of time and energy having a debate [with] people that frame a debate for the sake of debate and not frame of reference on a subject or with a someone that desperately clings to the delusional belief that they are a spiritually superior “reptilian hybrid” “visitor” “not from this planet” that “doesn't understand” us/or “You Humans” that they are here on a mission to “wake up”? This is a non Human who has pickled their brain on several of up to “3 year” “alcoholic binges” and who knows what else (ALL Their words not mine)?

[...]

It took me a while to figure out who Corey was talking about and where all these quotes came from but I did.

Amzer Zo,

Can you elaborate please?

I don't quite follow who Corey is and what Corey was talking about and where the quotes came from.

Thank you.

DoT

[ThePythonicCow]

Although I must admit that 9eagle9 administers very bitter medicine to most, it is not wynderer's first attempt at putting "you humans" down either:


Amzer Zo,

Can you elaborate please?

I just moved these posts to this thread, from the other Horus-Ra thread :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I don't quite follow who Corey is and what Corey was talking about and where the quotes came from.
Corey is GoodeTXSG :).

I'll leave it to Amzer Zo to explain the hard stuff.

[observer]

Allow me to further clarify my BULL$HIT statement in comment #19 so that there is no misunderstanding.

There is every reason to believe that our thoughts DO create our reality. This is the process that the global elite have always used - since the Dawn of Man - in hypnotizing the Mass of Humanity into believing what one sees is 'real'.

There is also every reason to believe that our thoughts might, in some small ways, create our individual realities.

There is, however, NO conclusive evidence to show that ignoring the Abject Evil that has total control of this planet through a nearly impenetrable matrix is, in any way, the method those awake to that Abject Evil should conduct their affairs.

Only by shining light on the darkness will the rest of the Mass of Humanity finely wake-up.

Ignoring the evil, in pursuit of one's own affairs, is EXACYLY what that evil wants you to do.

I hope I've cleared that up....

[Hervé]

If you click on the (here) after GoodeTXSG (Corey) in the above quote, it will take you to a thread started by wynderer and where a similar behaviour as in the Horus Ra thread was displayed.

The quotes from within Corey's quote come from various other threads and posts by wynderer. Of which is this one: The Hybrids & Clones Amongst Us (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44415-The-Hybrids-Clones-Amongst-Us)

Hope this helps in establishing some balance?

[DeDukshyn]

I can spout the truth, say wise things, pull my INTJ and be a complete logic asshole all day long, putting down all the less educated people ... but I find I'm 10x more effective if I only do that when 100% called for and spend the rest of the time treating people like the fellow humans that they are and pointing them in the right directions or giving them something to ponder while on their personal journey. Not trying to make them feel bad about the journey they are on. Tell them where the shortcuts are? - now there's value.

For me showing people - no matter who they are kindness and compassion, sharing and not judging, IS the teaching. (But don't get me wrong, hard lessons can work too - instead of continuously telling my toddler to stay away from electrical outlets, I gave him a butter knife. Later that day I never had to worry about it again. Actually - I didn't do that, it's just an example of how hard lessons can work, I see this as the less desirable route, and each person has their own route - none is "right" and thus should not be judged)

My 2 cents.

[DeDukshyn]

Allow me to further clarify my BULL$HIT statement in comment #19 so that there is no misunderstanding.

There is every reason to believe that our thoughts DO create our reality. This is the process that the global elite have always used - since the Dawn of Man - in hypnotizing the Mass of Humanity into believing what one sees is 'real'.

There is also every reason to believe that our thoughts might, in some small ways, create our individual realities.

There is, however, NO conclusive evidence to show that ignoring the Abject Evil that has total control of this planet through a nearly impenetrable matrix is, in any way, the method those awake to that Abject Evil should conduct their affairs.

Only by shining light on the darkness will the rest of the Mass of Humanity finely wake-up.

Ignoring the evil, in pursuit of one's own affairs, is EXACYLY what that evil wants you to do.

I hope I've cleared that up....

No ... you made a contradiction ... If people control their own realities, well that is what it is. People just need to come to that realization and learn how to do that -- what the controllers do at that stage is meaningless, but bringing them back into one's personal creation then brings them back ... no?

Maybe I'm just seeing your words differently than you intended.

[NancyV]

Moved from the Horus-Ra thread by observer for obvious reasons. To see NancyV's comment #1860 its entirety, click-on the forwarding arrow.

[....snip]
The theme of this thread, and I've read every post, may be a lot more all encompassing than you seem to grasp or acknowledge.
[....snip]
I'm probably not alone in reacting to attempts to shame, blame or control me and others with a thought that consists of two words, when boiled down to its essence.
[....snip]
The words I use and mean when I say them are F U. Behind that FU is an absolute refusal to let myself be used.

I may be totally off-base here, NancyV, but the way I read this comment is that you are, in essence, telling me to go FU myself.

The point of all the comments I have made within the Horus-Ra thread, and many other threads on this website, have been to cast light on the understanding that our thoughts are being controlled telepathically.

Many members subscribe to the idea that our thoughts create our reality. This "theme" is generally the result of either, personal experiences, or channeled information coming from the Astral. This, in my humble opinion, and supported by the evidence all the way back to the Dawn of Man, is BULL$HIT !!!

The Horus-Ra thread is an evidential trail of how our thoughts are being controlled telepathically.

If one truly believes their thoughts create their own reality, than I ask (once again) to explain how the Afghani woman sitting in the bombed-out rubble of her home, holding her dead infant child had anything to do with thoughts creating one's own reality.

I believe this is the 'guilt trip' you are referring to. In your most recent comments in the Horus-
Ra thread.

It's not a 'guilt trip', it's a legitimate point of reference in debate with the concept that we all create our own reality. This 'guilt trip' comment from Sabastion to wynderer is what set-off the attack on wynderer.

The comment made by Sabastion which, I believe was deleted:
"Sorry Wynderer but I am not buying into your victim/prison paradigm, not today, not tomorrow, not ever!"
And, I believe, my reply to Sabastion is the basis for what you are saying in your above quoted comment #1860.

This point of reference, which was characterized as a "guilt trip" by many of those attacking wynderer has everything to do with the topic in Horus-Ra thread.

If I'm incorrect, than I publicly apologize to you for misreading your intention.
No apology needed, observer. I thought it was fairly obvious that I was saying FU to anyone who is attempting to control me or others through shame, blame, fear or guilt....but now that you've put the idea in my head...LOL... naww, don't think I'll go there right now.

The quote from Sebastion which you posted above is one I agree with completely. I also will not buy into anyone's victim/prison paradigm, not today, not tomorrow, NOT EVER!

Since I have been observing this thread from its inception and have appreciated all viewpoints, I have also noticed the interpersonal dynamics. I did not enter into said dynamics because I know it's a losing battle to attempt to explain to someone that their suffering is a choice. Their pain is usually NOT their choice, but their continued suffering is within their power to change.

Apparently you have a problem with channeling and it's a hot spot for you. Although I do not indulge in channeling or listen to channeled information, it doesn't push my buttons the way it seems to push yours. You use channeling as a battering ram to hit people over the head with as you have now done twice to me. You are making assumptions about people about whom you know almost nothing but THINK you know what they're talking about because they push a hot button you have and you jump immediately into defense/attack mode, like a frigging puppet on a string.

In a previous post you said that those of us who have made various posts over the time we've been on this forum stating that we've traveled out of body for years, had adventures on all planes up to the Source and merged with the Source, SHOULD provide PROOF. Aside from the fact that the demand to provide proof is ludicrous, I have no desire to prove any of my personal experiences to you and no attachment to your belief or disbelief about anything I have ever said.

Perhaps you might consider the conundrum or puzzle that something can be more than one thing. For example: we do create our own reality... but here on earth we seem to be subject to chance, to bad luck, to unfair circumstances such as starving, being caught up in wars, being taken as a slave, being kidnapped and raped, holding our dead child in the midst of a bombed out rubble. It sure as hell FEELS like bad luck and unfair and not right.

These things that happen to us here may very well be things that we have agreed to experience before we came into this life. That doesn't make them any easier to bear if we are the ones experiencing them, nor does it do any good at all to have someone say that you were ultimately responsible for your fate when you're in the middle of feeling the pain. Of course you're absolutely NOT going to hear this if you have a strong belief in the victim/victimizer dynamic.

It appears to me that you are indulging in the game of "my pain (or her pain) is worse than YOUR pain". You seem to be on a mission to wake people up to YOUR point of view. Well, that will never work so you'll probably just end up like Wynderer and delete your posts and leave in a huff. Although I doubt that you're quite as much in the victim mode as she is.

What I have observed, observer, is that Wynderer was and has been throughout her presence here on the Avalon forum, bound and determined to make sure that everyone knows how much she is suffering. When those needs were not fulfilled the way she wanted them fulfilled by a few in the Horus Ra thread who had advice for her to help END her suffering, and when she saw that her particular tactic was not working with several people, she CHANGED her tactics to even more of a victim role. She then took her toys (deleted her posts) and went home in a huff.

Well, it worked somewhat. It worked to the point that one of the strongest, most powerful voices on the forum, a real healer....was banned for 2 weeks because Wynderer's whining worked. (nice alliteration!) Certain people fell right into the trap and responded in a knee jerk fashion which kicked out the empowerer and rewarded (enabled) the victim. MY knee-jerk reaction was absolute disgust. Luckily that only lasted for about an hour because I was sorely tempted to quit the forum, but that would have been like "letting the bastards win". In this case the "bastards" are my own knee jerk reactions...as always.

Mr. Observer, anyone who has not observed Wynderers continued demeaning snipes at normal "humans", and she obviously is not one, since she has stated many times that she is not but just HAPPENED to have the bad luck to end up in a low consciousness human civilization, has their head stuck so far up their butt that I guess there is no real reason to try to point out the obvious. Well, at least it's obvious to me and to others who actually DO observe what's going on. This is one of the reasons that I haven't entered this thread until this point. I don't normally fight losing battles, but what the heck, I must be in a game playing mood today! LOL.....

I am NOT going to win an argument with you and you are not going to win an argument with me. I suggest that we call it a draw and agree to let each of us live contentedly in our own reality. If you choose to not accept that compromise, continue attacking to your hearts content. Far be it from me to deny you your little pleasures.

[Mike]

this forum is like an energy soup; it requires certain ingredients in *certain doses*.

i like 9Eagle9's ingredients, but her doses are a little excessive at times. cynicism can be an energy balancer at times, but harmful when not applied properly to the meal.

i won't pile on here. i hope she stays. the forum benefits from her presence, no doubt.

[gripreaper]

Oh darn, now we will never know what happened to the disappearing vegetables from 9eagle9's garden.

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see NanyV's comment #27

In reply to what you say Nancy, I can only say, there is no game being played here.

You were the one that made the first attack on my comment in your reply #1860 of the Horus-Ra thread.

You have your subjective interpretations to your very personal experiences.

I have my objective interpretations to the evidence I've been reviewing for the best part of the past fifty years. I can only conclude from your above comment that you are the one with the 'buttons' being pushed.

As I suggested to Sabastion in the Horus-Ra thread he should take his subjective interpretations to the threads where they were more appropriate.

The Horus-Ra thread is about objective evidential trails. Hard evidence, which subjective interpretations of very personal experiences, cannot produce.

I trust this reply will end this debate.

[Sidney]

I just want to say, and i know is a bit off topic, but there is some solar activity from a few recent cme's, and I have been really emotionally stimulated today. It seems, when this heppens, flare-ups uccur in conversation. This is not a criticism, or advice, merely an observation that solar activity sometimes causes drama.

[wynderer]

hi Observer --

re creating reality w/thoughts in this 3D matrix -- i think we all get little carrots that way , especially when we are following the teachings of the many channelers & Humans who promote the theory that 'we create our own reality' -- a nice little 'manifestation' here, some cool synchronicities there, etc

Alan Ginsberg & his friends were all into the 'creating personal reality' thing -- William S Burroughs, a part of their circle, & who knew of the Reptilians, warned them that 'the collective can override the personal'

edit to add: your image of the Afghani mother sitting w/her dead child in her arms -- a gripping image of the collective overriding the personal -- those who live in war-torn countries aren't so much into 'personal reality creation'

as i see it, it's on the collective level that Human reality IS created -- especially in the Human collective unconscious , in 4D -- because Humans are herd/pack/tribe Animals, they are predisposed to being easily manipulated on the collective level by the archons/controllers , both in 3D & in 4D

the archons/controllers have the Human collective mind pretty well under complete control by now , imo -- symbols & rituals are 2 of their chief tools --

as i learned from you, the endless slaughter of & cruelty to non-Human Animals by Humans all over the planet is in actuality an on-going blood sacrifice ritual, giving the archons power over Human minds & Human souls -- w/the consent of the Humans thru their actions &/or indifference -- the far-too-common practice of 'sacrificing' pure-souled children & babies seems to be a way of focussing & intensifying the power they get from Humans

re the wearisome 'victim' accusations -- i think i've figured it out -- to accept that i am not a victim -- as in 'choosing to be a victim' -- is to accept the fact that we are all trapped [ in these bodies at this time] in this matrix under the control of the archons -- if i can be seen as a choosing victimhood wimp, that means that it is easy to get free of the matrix -- a very useful lie at this time when many will be leaving their bodies soon

insisting that i can break free & stop the NWO abductions happening -- sometimes behind that i hear fear , along the lines of , 'If that can happen to her, it can happen to me too -- be quick, mind -- find a way out of this one'

this goes along w/the insistence that 'we create our realities' -- i wonder sometimes if those who uphold this p.o.v. so vehemently do so because deep down , they know how bad it is here --

wyn



Allow me to further clarify my [I]BULL$HIT statement in comment #19 so that there is no misunderstanding.

There is every reason to believe that our thoughts DO create our reality. This is the process that the global elite have always used - since the Dawn of Man - in hypnotizing the Mass of Humanity into believing what one sees is 'real'.

There is also every reason to believe that our thoughts might, in some small ways, create our individual realities.

There is, however, NO conclusive evidence to show that ignoring the Abject Evil that has total control of this planet through a nearly impenetrable matrix is, in any way, the method those awake to that Abject Evil should conduct their affairs.

Only by shining light on the darkness will the rest of the Mass of Humanity finely wake-up.

Ignoring the evil, in pursuit of one's own affairs, is EXACYLY what that evil wants you to do.

I hope I've cleared that up....

[observer]

[....snip]
No ... you made a contradiction ... If people control their own realities, well that is what it is. [....snip]


Try and read exactly what I said, DeDukshyn.


Quoting observer's words from comment #23

There is also every reason to believe that our thoughts might, in some small ways, create our individual realities.

There is no contradiction in this thesis, i.e., in the exact meaning of what I said. Those among the members who are waging a battle with Abject Evil find it necessary to expose that Evil by shining light on it.

Those who believe that kind of focus is causing greater Evil to thrive are totally missing the point of the Horus-Ra thread. That thread is about wakening the Mass of Humanity to the core practices of Evil, and how those practices work on the manipulation of the Mass of Humanity.

Only by this kind of exposure do the Masses slowly wake-up.

If, you are one who believes your thoughts - even those thoughts designed to shed light on this particular Evil - are, in any way increasing this Evil, than I would suggest you are being fooled by telepathically implanted messages from the Astral.

An intensive review of the evidence - all the way back into antiquity - will show these Astral messages are being manipulated.

That is my point.

[DeDukshyn]

[....snip]
No ... you made a contradiction ... If people control their own realities, well that is what it is. [....snip]


Try and read exactly what I said, DeDukshyn.


Quoting observer's words from comment #23

There is also every reason to believe that our thoughts might, in some small ways, create our individual realities.

There is no contradiction in this thesis, i.e., in the exact meaning of what I said. Those among the members who are waging a battle with Abject Evil find it necessary to expose that Evil by shining light on it.

Those who believe that kind of focus is causing greater Evil to thrive are totally missing the point of the Horus-Ra thread. That thread is about wakening the Mass of Humanity to the core practices of Evil, and how those practices work on the manipulation of the Mass of Humanity.

Only by this kind of exposure do the Masses slowly wake-up.

If, you are one who believes your thoughts - even those thoughts designed to shed light on this particular Evil - are, in any way increasing this Evil, than I would suggest you are being fooled by telepathically implanted messages from the Astral.

An intensive review of the evidence - all the way back into antiquity - will show these Astral messages are being manipulated.

That is my point.

I agree that the awakening process needs to shed light - I never said or indicated that it didn't. I'm at different point on the "route", that is all - I no longer see "Evil" but actions and reactions. There is no need to emotionally charge actions and reactions.

You are a little combative aren't you? Maybe that's an implant by Satan himself? LOL ... Don't take me seriously and I won't take you seriously. Sound good? ;)

BTW you obviously don't read many of my posts -- one of my motto's is Believe nothing, and Consider Everything.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Part of the problem, I think, is different members' differing perceptions of the value and purpose of Houman's thread.

Here's how I see its value:


It's primarily an astonishingly rich resource library of information from deep researchers, some of whom many reading the thread may not have heard of.
It's also a prompt for us all to reflect deeply on what is really happening on Planet Earth. (And some visual 'wake-up-to-reality' shock tactics were legitimately used.)
It grew to become a place when some members, deeply affected, could share personal experiences -- a few of which were bewildering, terrifying or disturbing. Note that this can only be done effectively in a space that is perceived and experienced as non-judgmentally safe. Until 9eagle9 discovered the thread and joined in, it was safe. Ask justoneman, Daughter of Time, and others.
It should not be a place -- as some other less important threads sometimes become -- where personal sparring, jousting and invalidation occurs, and/or where one or two people start to influence the tone and direction of the thread with their energy and agenda. The informational content of this thread alone is worth every plaudit I and others have made, and it's crystal clear that some members think that they can just run in to the room, make a few jokes or crass comments, and then leave (or worse still, return several times the next day, and the next after that).


Nancy, a couple of points if I may:

1) You may not have seen some of the posts that were deleted, and nor will have you have read the recent PM exchange between myself and 9eagle9. I'm prepared to publish my half of this if it's helpful. (And you may be surprised at what I wrote to her.)

2) I agree with you in almost all that you say. You know that I have an immense amount of respect for you. I have even asked you three times if you would join the moderators' team. (That offer will always be open, btw!) :)

But it's hard for me to understand how you could have read Houman's thread in depth since its inception, till the present, and not have seen how the energy changed. That's what bothered me to the point when I unilaterally took the step of writing to 9eagle9 as I did.

I take full responsibility for that, was uninfluenced by anyone else, and I stand by my call. I accept fully that she's committed to speaking her truth. But the way she speaks her truth, and the way you speak yours, are entirely different in tone, quality, and energy.

This is the point. I admire some of 9eagle9's posts. I agree with quite a few of them. I believe that she cares and intends to add value, and quite often does. But I do not often enjoy the energy that she emanates. While that is of course an individual matter, I doubt that anyone here would say what about yourself. There lies the difference.

And it's an important difference. It's not just subjective: the content of what people write is often a window into their mind, and what it's like inside that person.

In order to be a good teacher, the student has to be willing to be with that teacher. All good teachers know that. Beating a student around the head with angry words, like a one-trick pony with no other options, is not being a good teacher.

[wynderer]

one more post, as this thread is about conduct

re a couple of members' referring to the split in the Hybrids & Clones threads & my posts -- [likely this post will be taken as more evidence of my choosing victimhood ] -- as those who are the abductees of choice by Reptilians , esp Dracos, know, they -- the Reptilians, who some think are the archons -- do not like to be talked or written about -- i knew what i was opening myself up to by starting both my abduction , & the hybrids/clones threads -- & i got whammied...

also i had been very rudely treated on Nexus where i first posted the abduction story, & i was thus oversensitive -- also i have a lot of Celtic blood & and tend to be quick-tempered -- also i am not especially emotionally mature to begin with

to me, it's not whining to write about the nature of their attacks -- it's more like a kind of reporting what they do -- as in 'know your enemy'

& honestly, i do not post about such things to try to win a popularity contest on Avalon -- that's not why i'm here -- i can't, nor do i want , to control what others think of me

civility would be nice, tho

[NancyV]

-------

Part of the problem, I think, is different members' differing perceptions of the value and purpose of Houman's thread.

Here's how I see its value:


It's primarily an astonishingly rich resource library of information from deep researchers, some of whom many reading the thread may not have heard of.
It's also a prompt for us all to reflect deeply on what is really happening on Planet Earth. (And some visual 'wake-up-to-reality' shock tactics were legitimately used.)
It grew to become a place when some members, deeply affected, could share personal experiences -- a few of which were bewildering, terrifying or disturbing. Note that this can only be done effectively in a space that is perceived and experienced as non-judgmentally safe. Until 9eagle9 discovered the thread and joined in, it was safe. Ask justoneman, Daughter of Time, and others.
It should not be a place -- as some other less important threads sometimes become -- where personal sparring, jousting and invalidation occurs, and/or where one or two people start to influence the tone and direction of the thread with their energy and agenda. The informational content of this thread alone is worth every plaudit I and others have made, and it's crystal clear that some members think that they can just run in to the room, make a few jokes or crass comments, and then leave (or worse still, return several times the next day, and the next after that).


Nancy, a couple of points if I may:

1) You may not have seen some of the posts that were deleted, and nor will have you have read the recent PM exchange between myself and 9eagle9. I'm prepared to publish my half of this if it's helpful. (And you may be surprised at what I wrote to her.)

2) I agree with you in almost all that you say. You know that I have an immense amount of respect for you. I have even asked you three times if you would join the moderators' team. (That offer will always be open, btw!) :)

But it's hard for me to understand how you could have read Houman's thread in depth since its inception, till the present, and not have seen how the energy changed. That's what bothered me to the point when I unilaterally took the step of writing to 9eagle9 as I did.

I take full responsibility for that, was uninfluenced by anyone else, and I stand by my call. I accept fully that she's committed to speaking her truth. But the way she speaks her truth, and the way you speak yours, are entirely different in tone, quality, and energy.

This is the point. I admire some of 9eagle9's posts. I agree with quite a few of them. I believe that she cares and intends to add value, and quite often does. But I do not often enjoy the energy that she emanates. While that is of course an individual matter, I doubt that anyone here would say what about yourself. There lies the difference.

And it's an important difference. It's not just subjective: the content of what people write is often a window into their mind, and what it's like inside that person.

In order to be a good teacher, the student has to be willing to be with that teacher. All good teachers know that. Beating a student around the head with angry words, like a one-trick pony with no other options, is not being a good teacher.
Hi Bill,

Thanks for your kind words to me, you know I love you. :kiss: But that doesn't mean that we always agree with each other, in fact the disagreements in different threads often bring out the best revelations and even allow people to come to more of an understanding about themselves.

I really am fully aware of how abrasive 9eagle can be and I believe that her methods are extremely valuable for those who can only hear someone like her. Many people can give compassion but actually end up enabling those who receive the compassion. What 9eagle does is a heck of a lot more difficult to do, be a continuous A-hole while putting out some extremely valuable information. There are those who haven't heard anything from people who schmoozed with them and comforted them, but then they get a dose of 9eagle and it WAKES them UP in a very abrupt manner. It can be kind of like shock therapy. LOL...If she can even help one or two people, and she has helped MANY more, then her methods are valid.

Compassion is only good for some temporary relief, but it is valuable and most people need it. If people who are brainwashed, abused, controlled and tortured truly want to get empowered, then the therapy for some may initially need to be somewhat shocking and tough. One form of therapy doesn't work for everyone. The way I saw the energy change when 9eagle began participating in the thread was a change for the better, a focus on empowering oneself and shaking off the shackles of the Archon's influence. She also called certain people on their hypocrisy and refused to enable their victim stance and their blame games. I certainly didn't see her words to be as vile and shocking as many of the videos and photos that were posted.

Of course I agree that it's good to see the face of evil. We need to know what we're dealing with and Houman has been instrumental in showing people how much and what kinds of evil are in the world. My opinion is that if you want to fight the evil you sometimes have to be tougher and nastier than the evil. It's like my husband saying that as a counter-terrorist he had to be a better terrorist than the terrorists. If you want someone to fight evil for you or teach you to fight evil, are you going to get a peace/love hippie to chant at it or beam love at it? Or are you going to get 9eagle to tear it to shreds with her unflinching, fearless and aggressive style. I'll take 9eagle any day here on the earth dimension to help with defeating the Archons.

We can't be politically correct when dealing with evil. We can't be limited by the societal dictates of being polite and correct in all our communications. I admit that I'm a bit more subtle in my nastiness than 9eagle is. I will say that I'm probably just as or more aggressive and nasty than she is but I might be more deceptive in not showing my real self, whereas she is totally herself and lets it all hang out. What you see is what you get.

Personally I have always sought out teachers who beat me around the head with a stick. I always end up laughing because I love those tactics and they suit me. I understand that others are intimidated by that type of a teacher or just prefer less of an aggressive style. Since it's your forum you can control the style of communication and teaching that you allow on your forum, which you have done. I was also irritated when you banned LordSid, even though he was a constant pain in the butt! LOL...

Thanks for offering to show us your communications with 9eagle but since they were apparently private to you, I would only want to see them if she wanted that to happen. I know you've done what you think is best and I respect you for that and agree that you have every right to do it. Of course it still pisses me off, but I think I must ENJOY getting pissed off upon occasion. So thanks for the opportunity, I've appreciated it and it's been fun! LOL...
:cheers:

[DeDukshyn]

trimm .. trimming ... still trimming ...


Thanks for your kind words to me, you know I love you. :kiss: But that doesn't mean that we always agree with each other, in fact the disagreements in different threads often bring out the best revelations and even allow people to come to more of an understanding about themselves.

I really am fully aware of how abrasive 9eagle can be and I believe that her methods are extremely valuable for those who can only hear someone like her. Many people can give compassion but actually end up enabling those who receive the compassion. What 9eagle does is a heck of a lot more difficult to do, be a continuous A-hole while putting out some extremely valuable information. There are those who haven't heard anything from people who schmoozed with them and comforted them, but then they get a dose of 9eagle and it WAKES them UP in a very abrupt manner. It can be kind of like shock therapy. LOL...If she can even help one or two people, and she has helped MANY more, then her methods are valid.

Compassion is only good for some temporary relief, but it is valuable and most people need it. If people who are brainwashed, abused, controlled and tortured truly want to get empowered, then the therapy for some may initially need to be somewhat shocking and tough. One form of therapy doesn't work for everyone. The way I saw the energy change when 9eagle began participating in the thread was a change for the better, a focus on empowering oneself and shaking off the shackles of the Archon's influence. She also called certain people on their hypocrisy and refused to enable their victim stance and their blame games. I certainly didn't see her words to be as vile and shocking as many of the videos and photos that were posted.

Of course I agree that it's good to see the face of evil. We need to know what we're dealing with and Houman has been instrumental in showing people how much and what kinds of evil are in the world. My opinion is that if you want to fight the evil you sometimes have to be tougher and nastier than the evil. It's like my husband saying that as a counter-terrorist he had to be a better terrorist than the terrorists. If you want someone to fight evil for you or teach you to fight evil, are you going to get a peace/love hippie to chant at it or beam love at it? Or are you going to get 9eagle to tear it to shreds with her unflinching, fearless and aggressive style. I'll take 9eagle any day here on the earth dimension to help with defeating the Archons.

We can't be politically correct when dealing with evil. We can't be limited by the societal dictates of being polite and correct in all our communications. I admit that I'm a bit more subtle in my nastiness than 9eagle is. I will say that I'm probably just as or more aggressive and nasty than she is but I might be more deceptive in not showing my real self, whereas she is totally herself and lets it all hang out. What you see is what you get.

Personally I have always sought out teachers who beat me around the head with a stick. I always end up laughing because I love those tactics and they suit me. I understand that others are intimidated by that type of a teacher or just prefer less of an aggressive style. Since it's your forum you can control the style of communication and teaching that you allow on your forum, which you have done. I was also irritated when you banned LordSid, even though he was a constant pain in the butt! LOL...

Thanks for offering to show us your communications with 9eagle but since they were apparently private to you, I would only want to see them if she wanted that to happen. I know you've done what you think is best and I respect you for that and agree that you have every right to do it. Of course it still pisses me off, but I think I must ENJOY getting pissed off upon occasion. So thanks for the opportunity, I've appreciated it and it's been fun! LOL...
:cheers:

I hear you on this as well NancyV for what it is worth. I have had in interesting ride with 9eagle myself - I won't point to the thread but it sure was interesting. I saw both her method but also her madness. I saw what was a great method being used inappropriately (My opinion).

You may know me as that ass sometimes too and you can be that one as well, yet we both are much more reserved and selective in those situations. I think, if my input was valid at all, that that is what I would say to 9eagle -- keep doing what you do, but learn when and when not to do it - sometimes, when you learn a broader range of methods, it becomes much more valuable to pick some over others. Her harsh ways are games, that most people gave up as children. Some need this style but that style can only be effectively actualized when the ridicule, judgement, and criticism is set aside.

This is my two cents and I am intruding on a conversation that is not really mine. While compassion can be seen as weakness -- on the higher levels it is clearly a strength - it is the natural evolution of mankind to have less reliance on the fear based emotions and more on the love based ones. Just my 2 cents - probably worthless, but its what I just spent 5 minutes writing so I'll click the darn submit button anyway ;) ;)

[CdnSirian]

Wow. Quite the thread, after not being on the forum for just a few hours.
1. It's Bill's site.
2. When I first joined I was truly smacked up the side of the head by a few members - 9eagle9 being one. I almost left forever.
3. I just cruised and got to know people. Some are easier to take than others. Yet I got to communicate more effectively with some, 9 Eagle 9 included, and got to admire them, her included.

I can see that she's intensely focused on her take on reality - and it is a productive take. Her communication, yeah takes getting used to.

It still blows me away a little bit sometimes - but if she goes, I will miss her.

I am Canadian of English parents. Manners are above all. Yet I went to school with Americans, and adapted to different manners. I know Bill has been around - so what can I say. Not knowing what they've discussed PM wise - I hope it works out somehow.

[NancyV]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see NanyV's comment #27

In reply to what you say Nancy, I can only say, there is no game being played here.

You were the one that made the first attack on my comment in your reply #1860 of the Horus-Ra thread.

You have your subjective interpretations to your very personal experiences.

I have my objective interpretations to the evidence I've been reviewing for the best part of the past fifty years. I can only conclude from your above comment that you are the one with the 'buttons' being pushed.

As I suggested to Sabastion in the Horus-Ra thread he should take his subjective interpretations to the threads where they were more appropriate.

The Horus-Ra thread is about objective evidential trails. Hard evidence, which subjective interpretations of very personal experiences, cannot produce.

I trust this reply will end this debate.
ALMOST done, but I have a couple of comments on your post. First, I did not mention nor post about you first. I could go find the post you made a couple of days ago where Sebastion said something about asking 4-5 people about there being NO judgment in the higher dimensions, but that would take a while so I won't. You mentioned that we should all take our channeling and "subjective" experiences and basically shove them where the sun don't shine (a bit of poetic license here) unless we could show PROOF. So you are incorrect in saying that I attacked you first.

Second: EVERYTHING is subjective! You can take your supposed objectivity and do what I said in my bit of poetic license above. LOL... The "evidence", photos, opinions, drawings, videos, etc. posted on the Horus Ra thread are not absolute PROOF of the full extent or meaning of the so called Archons. They are hints, indications, opinions. Only the actual photos or live videos can be real PROOF. Of course they could possibly be tampered with. Everything is open to interpretation, hence SUBJECTIVE. Everything you see with your eyes and hear with your ears is interpreted through your unique computer/brain, hence SUBJECTIVE.

Enuf said.

PS: I'm also 65 and also have over 50 years of active research and experience. So as impressive as it is that you and I have done so much research for so many years, we all know that a fool can easily become an OLD fool. Of course I am referring to myself and this is a completely SUBJECTIVE statement. I mention that so you don't immediately jump to the SUBJECTIVE conclusion that I'm attacking you. :)

[Reaver]

I have to ask: Has 9eagle9 harrassed those people who feel offended? has she been hammering those members in every thread she participates in out of nowhere? has she sent incessant PMs to those members?

I can see that she has a no nonsense style which is not about hugging and smiling at everyone all of the time, I can also see that she has a deep understanding on the dynamics of the human psyche. From what I've seen her posts aren't about consoling people when she feels that what they need is a methaphorical kick in the ass.

Is there judgement involved? of course there is and it's a tool which should be used by every single human being who is looking to maintain and develop her/his sanity. Judgement also comes in handy when you are trying to decide if someone else is toxic or not.

Sure it can go to an extreme like those extremes perpetrated by someone who is high on say racial supremacy and to be frank I don't see those extremes within 9eagle9's posts.

These kind of situations still baffle me. I'm talking about seeing that some people within the alternative community and who in all probability have spent years exploring topics regarding the dynamics of the Self, but can't stand any deconstructive criticism of their own beliefs, views, attitudes nor can they stand deconstructive criticisms towards "the messenger".

Now that's a general dynamic I've seen happenning in the alternative scene at large, I couldn't be 100% accurate with the members on this forum since I'm only familiar with the views of a handful of members on this board. But IF some or all of the members who are offended by 9eagle9 are people who claim to be into subjects of Self-hood, if they claim to be empowered, if they are those kind of people who say "I'm the one who decides what affects me and what not" and still find themselves offended by the posts and attitude of 9eagle9... well then I would say those people have some issues to solve and have to re-think their assumptions about being psychologically immune towards what someone else thinks or says about their person.

To be frank most of the people who I consider to be or who in my eyes have been great teachers, were people who got under people's skin. They were people who criticized the attitudes of other people, who addressed the person and his/her ideas alike, they weren't people who pretended that people didn't act based on their perceptions whether they were right or wrong, whether they were sane attitudes or not. They even had a degree of intolerance for other people and/or their beliefs, but intolerance doesn't necessarily means murder, harrasment, verbal assault, etc.

Should we always be smiling and remain uncritical of other people's beliefs if we consider them to be toxic? should we always give pats on the back to those people who act and think in a certain manner even if we think such attitude is being harmful to the other person? what if being warm and nice all of the time makes another person become dependent on beliefs which are actually just a mask of sanity? is that a sane thing to do? do we always keep our thoughts to ourselves in the name of civility?

Because taking such a stance could be harmful sooner or later. Take a view on modern times and the level of tolerance that people have towards organized religions. It is that tolerance in the name of civility, in the name of protecting the sensibilities of specific groups which has provided a breeding ground for the current Orwellian paradigm.

Again, intolerance doesn't have to translate into a sadistic behaviour. Sometimes intolerance can be a simple disagreement or a simple criticism towards X idea or behaviour.

But for some reason there are people in this world who think that compassion is just about suspending judgement, about smiling all of the time and being mr. nice guy... some even see humility as a something sane and as something that a compassionate being should be... but as Ken Wilber noted:



"Real compassion kicks butt and takes names, and it is not pleasant on certain days. If you are not ready for this fire, then find a new-age, sweetness-and-light, soft-speaking, perpetually smiling teacher, and learn to relabel your ego with spiritual sounding terms. But stay away from those that practice real compassion, because they will fry your ass, my friend."

I also saw some people making comments along these lines: "not having members permission to criticize their person/ideas". I really find such argument hypocritical. I do have to ask: has anyone here asked the permission of members of TPTB for their permission to criticize them? has anyone here suspended judgment when it comes to politicians? because you know, there are some politicians who have a serious existential crisis and who are far from being psychopaths and some of them may have a high profile within public awareness, but the hammering will continue anyway. I also have to ask: why no one complains when people praise the posts of other members or the members themselves without receiving explicit permission?

I also think there's a serious cognitive dissonance taking place within many people in the alternative media at large... well the whole world really. It is a taboo, a mortal sin, a no-no to give any sort of deconstructive/negative criticism towards another person, we are asked/demanded to pretend that such person doesn't apply his/her ideas on her life so we only must address the message. Doing otherwise will earn you all sorts of labels, from uncompassionate to abusive.

Oh but what about praising somebody else? what about showering them with flowers? what about sending all the love in the world to people? oh in that case no one complains, that's encouraged. No one seems to say: Don't praise the messenger, only the message.

So much for getting rid of the Ego, no? Some people just fail to see that sometimes prasing another being could be harmful. Take schooling as an example, there are millions of people who will praise those with good grades and impeccable behaviour who are an example for everyone else.

Such praising is feeding something which is utterly destructive in a toxic sense and no one criticizes people who encourage schooling because schooling is deemed to be good. No one seems to criticize people who are into schooling because civility and tolerance get's in the way.

There are fine lines in these dynamics and I'm not saying that what I term "deconstructive criticism" could not turn into a sadistic behaviour, but I don't see 9eagle9 showing any sadistic tendencies, nor I see that she has any desire to take over and have power over how people live their life... but at the same time that doesn't mean she should keep quiet and tolerate other people's ideas/behaviour is she thinks they are harmful to others and those particular people. She could be wrong at times, yes. But those mistakes are a way to refine one's own Judgement.

You see, even being neutral could be counterproductive sometimes. What would happen if seas of people decide to take a Zen attitude towards the evil and decay infecting humanity? Sometimes insanity hides behind a veil of sanity, goodness and compassion.

[DeDukshyn]

I have to ask: Has 9eagle9 harrassed those people who feel offended? has she been hammering those members in every thread she participates in out of nowhere? has she sent incessant PMs to those members?

I can see that she has a no nonsense style which is not about hugging and smiling at everyone all of the time, I can also see that she has a deep understanding on the dynamics of the human psyche. From what I've seen her posts aren't about consoling people when she feels that what they need is a methaphorical kick in the ass.

Is there judgement involved? of course there is and it's a tool which should be used by every single human being who is looking to maintain and develop her/his sanity. Judgement also comes in handy when you are trying to decide if someone else is toxic or not.

Sure it can go to an extreme like those extremes perpetrated by someone who is high on say racial supremacy and to be frank I don't see those extremes within 9eagle9's posts.

These kind of situations still baffle me. I'm talking about seeing that some people within the alternative community and who in all probability have spent years exploring topics regarding the dynamics of the Self, but can't stand any deconstructive criticism of their own beliefs, views, attitudes nor can they stand deconstructive criticisms towards "the messenger".

Now that's a general dynamic I've seen happenning in the alternative scene at large, I couldn't be 100% accurate with the members on this forum since I'm only familiar with the views of a handful of members on this board. But IF some or all of the members who are offended by 9eagle9 are people who claim to be into subjects of Self-hood, if they claim to be empowered, if they are those kind of people who say "I'm the one who decides what affects me and what not" and still find themselves offended by the posts and attitude of 9eagle9... well then I would say those people have some issues to solve and have to re-think their assumptions about being psychologically immune towards what someone else thinks or says about their person.

To be frank most of the people who I consider to be or who in my eyes have been great teachers, were people who got under people's skin. They were people who criticized the attitudes of other people, who addressed the person and his/her ideas alike, they weren't people who pretended that people didn't act based on their perceptions whether they were right or wrong, whether they were sane attitudes or not. They even had a degree of intolerance for other people and/or their beliefs, but intolerance doesn't necessarily means murder, harrasment, verbal assault, etc.

Should we always be smiling and remain uncritical of other people's beliefs if we consider them to be toxic? should we always give pats on the back to those people who act and think in a certain manner even if we think such attitude is being harmful to the other person? what if being warm and nice all of the time makes another person become dependent on beliefs which are actually just a mask of sanity? is that a sane thing to do? do we always keep our thoughts to ourselves in the name of civility?

Because taking such a stance could be harmful sooner or later. Take a view on modern times and the level of tolerance that people have towards organized religions. It is that tolerance in the name of civility, in the name of protecting the sensibilities of specific groups which has provided a breeding ground for the current Orwellian paradigm.

Again, intolerance doesn't have to translate into a sadistic behaviour. Sometimes intolerance can be a simple disagreement or a simple criticism towards X idea or behaviour.

But for some reason there are people in this world who think that compassion is just about suspending judgement, about smiling all of the time and being mr. nice guy... some even see humility as a something sane and as something that a compassionate being should be... but as Ken Wilber noted:



"Real compassion kicks butt and takes names, and it is not pleasant on certain days. If you are not ready for this fire, then find a new-age, sweetness-and-light, soft-speaking, perpetually smiling teacher, and learn to relabel your ego with spiritual sounding terms. But stay away from those that practice real compassion, because they will fry your ass, my friend."

I also saw some people making comments along these lines: "not having members permission to criticize their person/ideas". I really find such argument hypocritical. I do have to ask: has anyone here asked the permission of members of TPTB for their permission to criticize them? has anyone here suspended judgment when it comes to politicians? because you know, there are some politicians who have a serious existential crisis and who are far from being psychopaths and some of them may have a high profile within public awareness, but the hammering will continue anyway. I also have to ask: why no one complains when people praise the posts of other members or the members themselves without receiving explicit permission?

I also think there's a serious cognitive dissonance taking place within many people in the alternative media at large... well the whole world really. It is a taboo, a mortal sin, a no-no to give any sort of deconstructive/negative criticism towards another person, we are asked/demanded to pretend that such person doesn't apply his/her ideas on her life so we only must address the message. Doing otherwise will earn you all sorts of label, from uncompassionate to abusive.

Oh but what about praising somebody else? what about showering them with flowers? what about sending all the love in the world to people? oh in that case no one complains, that's encouraged. No one seems to say: Don't praise the messenger, only the message.

So much for getting rid of the Ego, no? Some people just fail to see that sometimes prasing another being could be harmful. Take schooling as an example, there are millions of people who will praise those with good grades and impeccable behaviour who are an example for everyone else.

Such praising is feeding something which is utterly destructive in a toxic sense and no one criticizes people who encourage schooling because is schooling is deemed to be good. No one seems to criticize people who are into schooling because civility and tolerance get's in the way.

There are fine lines in these dynamics and I'm not saying that what I term "deconstructive criticism" could turn into a sadistic behaviour, but I don't see 9eagle9 showing any sadistic tendencies, nor I see that she has any desire to take over and have power over how people live their life... but at the same time that doesn't mean she should keep quiet and tolerate other people's ideas/behaviour is she thinks they are harmful to others and those particular people. She could be wrong at times, yes. But those mistakes are a way to refine one's own Judgement.

You see, even being neutral could be counterproductive sometimes. What would happen if seas of people decide to take a Zen attitude towards the evil and decay infecting humanity? Sometimes insanity hides behind a veil of sanity, goodness and compassion.

She plays games -- I'd rather not have to point out that thread where she admits it. The one lesson she gives that is worth her effort is this: "What others think of me is none of my business"

I'm seeing much generalizations here: "praising = bad", "compassion is bad because it can lead to this" etc. Let's move past the generalizations and realize that each moment, interpretation and experience is unique, has a learning experience, and is neither "good" nor "bad" ... then, at this stage we can confidently move forward with our differences respected, but with respect to other as well.

Just because being too complacent may not be good, doesn't make being an asshole the solution. A bit like the "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" ... my 2 cents.

EDIT: How come I can swear? What happened to the swear filter?

[gooty64]

Here is the irony in this matter from my perspective.
I am about as sensitive, emotional, reactive and touchy as they get, yet I made fast friends with 9e9 and have had many personal conservations with her on the skype.
I for one am done pussyfooting or tiptoeing around my weak spots and sensitivities and would rather stare the tiger/eagle in the eyes than stay in my comfort zone and cower.
Like 9e9 said, "how are we going to challenge the PTB if we can't face our own issues? (weak paraphrase, sorry)

Aren't we in an emergency situation?

Considering the extreme dilemma civilization is facing during this time, a few barn-burning threads may be necessary to get at the heart of the matter/truth.

Isn't this forum about preventing the end of the world? (see- Anglo-Saxon mission and various other threads)

And what about talented, hard to handle past members that have been banned for eternity, why not recruit them to come back and join the forum again -so that we can together prevent the disaster from happening.

Isn't it more important to save mankind and the planet than to have a "gentlemans" forum.

Coming back to the forum recently after a 4 month "vacay/ban", I was eager to read posts from Grip, 9e9, Ghostrider, Borden etc. It's just too late in the game to hold anything back for later-imho.

[another bob]

You see, even being neutral could be counterproductive sometimes. What would happen if seas of people decide to take a Zen attitude towards the evil and decay infecting humanity?

Greetings, Friend!

It's easy to toss around terms. However, a true "Zen attitude" is not neutral, but in fact is filled with more passion than you could fathom. Of course, there are those who fancy themselves using "Zen" methods to "awaken" others, using a big stick to shock folks out of their "programs", but invariably these characters would shrivel in the presence of a true master. I've seen it happen over and over. A real Zen adept is not clumsy or angry -- their sword is surgical steel, peeling back layers of self-delusion without demeaning or belittling the one being served.

Nevertheless, "seas of people" will not be taking such a so-called Zen attitude any time soon, given the prevailing level of consciousness in this realm. Such a one is a rare jewel, and that has always been the case, even amongst thousands of Zen aspirants. Why? Because they have crossed the line of their own death, and few will dare to go that far, despite having read a few zen books, tried a little meditation, and attended a Ken Wilbur seminar.



Sometimes insanity hides behind a veil of sanity, goodness and compassion.

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


:yo:

[Reaver]

I'm seeing much generalizations here: "praising = bad", "compassion is bad because it can lead to this" etc. Let's move past the generalizations and realize that each moment, interpretation and experience is unique, has a learning experience, and is neither "good" nor "bad" ... then, at this stage we can confidently move forward with our differences respected, but with respect to other as well.
Then you are missing the point. I never said those were absolutes, I never said that compassion was absolutely bad nor did I ever said that praising someone else is something no one should ever do. I was elaborating on the different layers you can find within those general themes. I'd have to write a huge encyclopedia everytime I write a post if I tried to cover all the possible aspects of which I'm aware of.

And I did say: "There are fine lines in these dynamics and I'm not saying that what I term "deconstructive criticism" could turn into a sadistic behaviour". The phrase may have been lost within all the other things I was trying to present and besides english is not my native tongue... but to be honest with you I feel you were the one who reduced my post to mere generalizations.

[Reaver]

It's easy to toss around terms. However, a true "Zen attitude" is not neutral, but in fact is filled with more passion than you could fathom. Of course, there are those who fancy themselves using "Zen" methods to "awaken" others, using a big stick to shock folks out of their "programs", but invariably these characters would shrivel in the presence of a true master. I've seen it happen over and over. A real Zen adept is not clumsy or angry -- their sword is surgical steel, peeling back layers of self-delusion without demeaning or belittling the one being served.

Nevertheless, "seas of people" will not be taking such a so-called Zen attitude any time soon, given the prevailing level of consciousness in this realm. Such a one is a rare jewel, and that has always been the case, even amongst thousands of Zen aspirants. Why? Because they have crossed the line of their own death, and few will dare to go that far, despite having read a few zen books, tried a little meditation, and attended a Ken Wilbur seminar.
It was more a figure speech than anything else. I do see the valuable elements of Zen from what I can grasp at the moment and if more people applied at least some of those teachings to their life, well I'd say there'd be a greater number of sane individuals on the planet. A great tool to get rid of cancerous elements from one's psyche.

[DeDukshyn]

I'm seeing much generalizations here: "praising = bad", "compassion is bad because it can lead to this" etc. Let's move past the generalizations and realize that each moment, interpretation and experience is unique, has a learning experience, and is neither "good" nor "bad" ... then, at this stage we can confidently move forward with our differences respected, but with respect to other as well.
Then you are missing the point. I never said those were absolutes, I never said that compassion was absolutely bad nor did I ever said that praising someone else is something no one should ever do. I was elaborating on the different layers you can find within those general themes. I'd have to write a huge encyclopedia everytime I write a post if I tried to cover all the possible aspects of which I'm aware of.

And I did say: "There are fine lines in these dynamics and I'm not saying that what I term "deconstructive criticism" could turn into a sadistic behaviour". The phrase may have been lost within all the other things I was trying to present and besides english is not my native tongue... but to be honest with you I feel you were the one who reduced my post to mere generalizations.

Missing the point? Or you agree with me? (I was referencing more than your post - don't be too terribly personal - I am not attacking you, Besides, in true 9Eagle spirit, what I think of you should be none of your business.)
BTW I think you meant "couldn't" instead of "could" in your quote? Maybe that is what threw me off. If english is your second language then that mistake can be overlooked.

[Reaver]

Missing the point? Or you agree with me?
BTW I think you meant "coundn't" instead of "could" in your quote? Maybe that is what threw me off. If english is your second language then that mistake can be overlooked.
Oh yeah, my mistake. Yeah I meant that I'm aware that "deconstructive criticism" can go to the extreme of sadism... and yeah English is my second language. You'll notice that I constantly edit my posts to fix my grammar, but I still miss some typos and sentences.

[DeDukshyn]

Missing the point? Or you agree with me?
BTW I think you meant "coundn't" instead of "could" in your quote? Maybe that is what threw me off. If english is your second language then that mistake can be overlooked.
Oh yeah, my mistake. Yeah I meant that I'm aware that "deconstructive criticism" can go to the extreme of sadism... and yeah English is my second language. You'll notice that I constantly edit my posts to fix my grammar, but I still miss some typos and sentences.

That makes much more sense - thanks for clarifying that point. I do it all the time too and hope no one reads my posts while I am trying to edit it and say what I really meant ...
At the end of the day we all know each experience is unique and generalizations should be taken as just what they are - again not directed specifically at you but at the overall tone of generalizations wherever they may be found. ;) ;)

[Reaver]

That makes much more sense - thanks for clarifying that point. I do it all the time too and hope no one reads my posts while I am trying to edit it and say what I really meant ...
I've been there more times that I care to remember and sometimes it's good that there are thousands of miles separating me and the person who wants to kick my ass :boxing:


At the end of the day we all know each experience is unique and generalizations should be taken as just what they are - again not directed specifically at you but at the overall tone of generalizations wherever they may be found.
I usually begin to work with general ideas and then try to expand them while exploring different layers. That and I use a lot of deep thought within my posts, so sometimes I just sit and hope that the other person "gets it". If they don't I usually contact the mexican mafia to shake 'em up and ask for a generous ransom :jester:

[another bob]

Aren't we in an emergency situation?

Not really -- we've done this dance more times than we can count, each time with a slight variation to keep it interesting and entrain our attention for one more round. When it ceases to seduce and lure us in any longer, when the kindergarten playground we take to be "our world" no longer can accomodate our growing level of awareness, we'll be ready to move up to a more engaging theater of fun and mirrors. Woo Yay!

:yo:

[Rocky_Shorz]

even being this close to the discussions on Horus can affect us, I just looked at a side view of the sun to see what just popped...

http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/browse/2012/08/21/ahead/cor2/1024/20120821_042424_d7c2A.jpg

Satan with a pitchfork... :p

[Rocky_Shorz]

did I just hear someone think it's eagle with a broom...


Shame shame shame... ;)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I don't know what went down, but I will tell you this. 9eagle9 earned her truth. She walks her talk. She has wisdom that transcends the fluffy bunny feel-good needs of the many. She has tremendous personal integrity. If she has a flaw, it is that she, like some of the Taoist Masters I have studied with, does not suffer fools.

She shares her truth without flinching. She does not give a damn if that truth makes you uncomfortable. It has been my experience over the last 18 months that people who have a problem with what she shares generally have a problem with something inside themselves that prefers delusion to their own personal truth. And so conflict ensues. and people react to her rather than look at their own inner friction. Reactivity is always a choice. (even when it is Whiskey doing the reacting)

And no, maybe this isn't the best place for her because many people here need their delusions reinforced and don't want to look at the reality of their own ****. But that would be YOUR loss. It's the same reason I feel less and less like I belong here as the months go by.

We can whine about how someone broke our cookie or failed to reinforce our personal reality. Or we can get to work. There is serious work to be done in the world. And time is short.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoVO_PFWxqI

[modwiz]

I don't know what went down, but I will tell you this. 9eagle9 earned her truth. She walks her talk. She has wisdom that transcends the fluffy bunny feel-good needs of the many. She has tremendous personal integrity. If she has a flaw, it is that she, like some of the Taoist Masters I have studied with, does not suffer fools.

She shares her truth without flinching. She does not give a damn if that truth makes you uncomfortable. It has been my experience over the last 18 months that people who have a problem with what she shares generally have a problem with something inside themselves that prefers delusion to their own personal truth. And so conflict ensues. and people react to her rather than look at their own inner friction. Reactivity is always a choice. (even when it is Whiskey doing the reacting)

And no, maybe this isn't the best place for her because many people here need their delusions reinforced and don't want to look at the reality of their own ****. But that would be YOUR loss. It's the same reason I feel less and less like I belong here as the months go by.

We can whine about how someone broke our cookie or failed to reinforce our personal reality. Or we can get to work. There is serious work to be done in the world. And time is short.



I'll drink to that. :thumb:

[greybeard]

Live and let live is a good way to be.
There is an expression that "Honey attracts more ants than vinegar"
There are effective ways of putting a point across.
Hitting some one over the head with a statement, even if its right, seldom works even if the point of view is correct and well intended.
It may be a responsibility to share---put things on the table-- but its the others responsibility to pick it up or leave it, or just plain ignore without comment.

Chris

[gripreaper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1MogcDNYF4

We're sailing in a strange boat
heading for a strange shore
We're sailing in a strange boat
heading for a strange shore
Carrying the strangest cargo
that was ever hauled aboard

We're sailing on a strange sea
blown by a strange wind
We're sailing on a strange sea
blown by a strange wind
Carrying the strangest crew
that ever sinned

We're riding in a strange car
we're followin' a strange star
We're climbing on the strangest ladder
that was ever there to climb

We're living in a strange time
working for a strange goal
We're living in a strange time
working for a strange goal
We're turning flesh and body into soul

[Magnus]

I haven't followed the Horus-Ra thread to any significant degree, but i still feel inclined to offer my opinion in support of 9eagle9.

Others have the privilege of knowing her more extensively than i do, but for the part i'm able to account for, she has certainly earned my heartfelt vote.

She may be blunt, but that's no problem at all, in respect of the energy, intelligence and wisdom she represent. If i was in need of a slap in the face, then 9eagle9 is one of few i would be grateful recieving it from.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong in being courteous as long as it originates from honest and sincere intentions, the key word is - 'sincerity'. From here, it's a very fine line bordering to being sincerely blunt and delivering well intended slaps in the face.

In my view, a lot more folks should be grateful for recieving a sincere, loving, well intended and respectful slap in the face when appropriate. You just have to figure out who has your best interest at heart, and that might possibly be difficult or even impossible for some people.

[wynderer]

re the 'shock therapy' treatment for milabs & abductees to help us wake up to our power -- we already get shock therapy -- electric shocks by our abductors

not whining -- just reporting

[778 neighbour of some guy]

You see, even being neutral could be counterproductive sometimes. What would happen if seas of people decide to take a Zen attitude towards the evil and decay infecting humanity?

Greetings, Friend!

It's easy to toss around terms. However, a true "Zen attitude" is not neutral, but in fact is filled with more passion than you could fathom. Of course, there are those who fancy themselves using "Zen" methods to "awaken" others, using a big stick to shock folks out of their "programs", but invariably these characters would shrivel in the presence of a true master. I've seen it happen over and over. A real Zen adept is not clumsy or angry -- their sword is surgical steel, peeling back layers of self-delusion without demeaning or belittling the one being served.

Nevertheless, "seas of people" will not be taking such a so-called Zen attitude any time soon, given the prevailing level of consciousness in this realm. Such a one is a rare jewel, and that has always been the case, even amongst thousands of Zen aspirants. Why? Because they have crossed the line of their own death, and few will dare to go that far, despite having read a few zen books, tried a little meditation, and attended a Ken Wilbur seminar.



Sometimes insanity hides behind a veil of sanity, goodness and compassion.

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


:yo:

No disrespect,

And the sound of one hand clapping is just whacking yourself on the forehead when you are wrong, its not that hard to admit one is wrong, i whack myself a lot and thats a good thing, its called learning, cigars are nice by the way ( although Freud is pretty much a dick, anyone could have come up with that cigar phrase). Saying you are sorry should not be hard either and its not, everybody can be wrong, you dont even have to be an idiot to come to that conclusion.

I had very little to no interaction with 9e9, she could be a really hard act or ass to follow, nevertheless, rudeness has not being presented as eloquent as she could and can very often. No clue as of why she went on a involuntary holiday ( i can imagine some scenarios but that does not mean i am right). I do have the feeling she did not whack herself on the head very often though, if thats a good thing or bad thing, who knows.

As far as energy reading goes, i dont know about you but i have many faces, the face i show is usually the one i want to show on that particular moment, this does however not mean the face is not sincere, i have little to no interest of showing who i really am on forums, i have no clue who everybody is or what his/hers intentons are towards others and so i present myself the way i do, the good will stay and read between the lines, the bad cant touch me it does not know what and who i truly am and how to focus on me, i like it that way.

Let him/her without sin cast the first stone, i dont think many stones will be cast.

[gooty64]

from WM:
There is serious work to be done in the world. And time is short.

Will somebody please pm me when they have solution to put forth.....thanks, from the outskirts.



Aren't we in an emergency situation?

Not really -- we've done this dance more times than we can count, each time with a slight variation to keep it interesting and entrain our attention for one more round. When it ceases to seduce and lure us in any longer, when the kindergarten playground we take to be "our world" no longer can accomodate our growing level of awareness, we'll be ready to move up to a more engaging theater of fun and mirrors. Woo Yay!

:yo:

[Bill Ryan]

-------

I'm willing to share the PMs I sent to 9eagle9 before the public message to her I posted here. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=541554&viewfull=1#post541554) (I wrote them, so they are mine to share.)

She was unsubscribed for two weeks, by my own unilateral decision, because she did not change her behavior.

She was (a) warned (when she dumped on the Acknowledgments (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47943-Acknowledgments&p=540448&highlight=acknowledgments) thread, which has earned more thanks per post than any of the 44,350 other threads so far), and (b) reprieved for similar offenses when she clashed unendingly with viking. viking was banned for 7 days for his immature provocation (which 9eagle9 was unable to ignore) -- and the mods, after a long debate, decided that 9eagle9 should not be banned, but that I would write to her again.

Which I did. Read below. It didn't make much difference.

You have to understand that we're dealing with someone who has anger and defiance issues, and is unable to deal with them herself. This is the bottom line. I will throw her out if she continues to be a bully, spraying unmoderated invective around simply to self-medicate her own unbalance.

If she really does have guts, let's see her making revelatory videos on YouTube or opening up a blog under her real name. Being a forum bully is easy. That doesn't take any courage at all. Nancy, ask your husband what real courage is. I'm sure he'll tell us. :)

***

Below is the first message I wrote her, after she posted the following on the Acknowledgments thread. I deleted (but saved) the post.






Excuse me folks, brief commercial interruption here.

Well Fred didn't I recently describe to you on Avalon Chat WHY I'm not participating in this thread. And to a few other members as well who have enough integrity to recall , most recently, why I was not participating in this thread without backpedaling away from it.

If you don't remember I could very well go back and retrieve that time and date stamped discussion to jar your memory if you decide to backpedal away from recollection of my remarks.

And now you see for your own eyes. I always say people provide their own evidence to back up what I say and here we are again.

Why I knew better to touch what I'm sure was a well intentioned thread initiated by Bill is pretty much emphasized by the creation of that video.

A number of people have attempted to drag me in here, and I have declined, out of respect for that Bill's intention,knowing how some disgruntled parties would find some reason to take those well intentions and twist it to air their inane and petty grievances in some fashion or another.--more than likely using my presence as an excuse to get their knickers in a bind.

I can only hazard a guess as to what our emotionally disenfranchised would have come up with if I had made previous participation.

Knowing full well our drama queens would take this well intentioned thread, as an opportunity to dramatize their personal grievances. After Dennis' last well documented diatribes about me, I extraordinarily doubt this product of playing in one's one emotional ****, is meant to be flattering.

To the creator of this video: Neither was I contacted about using my forum representation, or were you given permission to use my forum representation to play in your own ****.

Gripreaper, although it is not my place to apologize for attaching you to this matter ,and I have no idea how your name got mangled up in this, I realize I am very self determined person and some people do not like having others attaching themselves to my energy anymore I like being attached or drug into this sort of petty inane energy. If a drama is not provided they will find a way to create one, and again this provides its own evidence of where I am often coming from.

If you were not party to this, I am very sorry that you got used and drug into the personal grievances of Dennis and Company. If you were party to this , well I'm sorry to hear it but there's that saying about lying down with dogs.

And you too Bill, I really did stay away just to avoid circumstances like this. I have made that known to several members on the day you first initiated this post. I often do not thank posts or attempt to communicate with your personally because the fall out on my end of things for simply having you thank one of my posts is just stupid and unnecessary. I really just don't want to be a party to feeding that energy.

I suppose the Drama Queens will have their due one way or the other.

Moderation. My representation will be removed from the video, otherwise I request that you take it down entirely.

There now you are a given a choice in the matter that I was not given.

Or at the very least remove it from this thread where it is entirely unwarranted and give its own personal space, and (you don't even have the excuse of saying my presence in this thread prompted you to air your inability to manage yourself...which is your usual excuse), and post it elsewhere and since someone desperately wants my attention, I will address it where it is more appropriate for me to give it the sort of eagle eyed vision that it deserves and disembowelment that it requires. And know that I have every right to make comment on it and the other representations you have chosen to poise in your creation since you have opened the door and invited me in. You certainly can't say its none of my business now that you've made it my business.

You have a choice now. Choose wisely. If you do not, that choice, will come back to bite you in the arse.

For the rest of you, thank you for your patience, and carry on in the vane in which this thread was intended and not in the vane in which our drama queens would like to twist to fulfill their need for drama.

You want acknowledgement. There is it.


I deleted the post, removed Dennis's video, and wrote her the following.






9eagle9, I have acknowledged you personally and genuinely on this and other threads. I respect your intelligence, experience and passion. I know that you get some things very right.

But here, you have it very wrong. And I'll say this straight, in the kind of semantics that you may understand and respect:

If you project your unresolved and unaddressed personal anger around on a thread like this -- one which has generated a huge amount of genuine good feeling in a really valuable community -- I will personally throw you out.

And that is without a mods vote. I get to do that sometimes. :)

If you want to challenge me, just watch me delete your account. It will take me between 30 and 45 seconds. You have attempted to disrespect not only myself, but everyone who has posted on the thread. That is not okay.

I am writing to you like this because I think you will understand. I repeat (and this is sincere): I respect you, and I admire your passion and many of your insights, which are spot-on. You belong here. If we were neighbors, I believe we would be good friends. But here, you stepped over the line.

I do not want you to leave -- and I have told the mods that in previous discussions. But I am always able and willing to change my mind.

With my sincere best wishes (and this is not meant in sarcasm) -- Bill


She thanked me for my honesty, justified her post, and said (my paraphrase) that if she left, her role would only be replaced by someone else.

Next, she entered into a long spat with viking. The two of them traded cheap insults until it got boring and disruptive. Some of the mods wanted to ban them both for 7 days to cool off. I opted to write to 9eagle9 instead:






Dear 9eagle9:

When a forum issue arises, the mods open a new thread in their own section.

Usually, these threads are closed after a few posts. The latest, about the spat between you and viking, lasted for 3 days, 5 pages and 84 posts. We decided to give viking a 7 day ban. His immature provocation of you was unacceptable.

There was some discussion (intelligent, measured, and requiring us to trawl through many posts) about whether the 7 days should also extend to you. We came to the opinion that it should not.

It's not an easy job being a mod on the forum. I do very little, but the rest of the team are heroic in their commitment: not only to do what they can to maintain this as the highest quality forum on the internet, but to be fair.

You come up for discussion quite often. You're intelligent, honest to a fault, experienced, passionate, articulate, sometimes very witty, and are clearly an exceptional human being measured on a number of counts.

You have integrity: that means that what you believe, what you say, and how you act are all in alignment.

In short, we value you. This is sincere. In my last message to you about your response to Dennis' video (to which I believe you over-reacted, posting your feelings in an inappropriate place), I meant every word I wrote. You're respected, appreciated and valued by the mods and many others. I hope this is evident.

The place would be poorer without your presence. The forum is designed for people like yourself. And you also help make it what it is.

All that said, what I want to ask you is this. Please find a way to self-moderate yourself more effectively. If you can moderate the way you express yourself, then we'll be able to spend our limited, unpaid time doing stuff that's more productive to many more people.

The latter is of concern to us. There's a lot of quiet stuff that we can easily miss (like taking the time to welcome new members, positively reinforcing people, and redesigning the forum interface) because we're busy attending to squeaking wheels that are making a lot of noise. You are quite high-maintenance (this PM will have taken me 45 mins to write, and I have plenty of other things to do!). But I care enough to want to do it.

I wrote on the private mods thread about yourself and viking that for me, you pass the desert island test. If we were stuck on a desert island, I have the feeling I could count on you. There are other members about whom I wouldn't say quite the same thing. I write this seriously. This is one form of the highest praise I can come up with about a person.

Here's a different formulation of what I ask you.

You have enough maturity and knowledge of human nature to understand why people react to your strong statements. As Gandhi rightly said, we have to be the change we want to see in the world. If you agree that the challenge before us is for billions of very diverse humans to co-exist without war (global or personal), injury or destruction, respecting each others' differences while finding ways to work together for the common good, this has to start with smaller societies such as the forum. We HAVE to be that change.

What this means is that if someone irritates the h*** out of you at a supermarket checkout, you don't pull out a gun and shoot them. You may say something pointedly that alerts the person that their behavior is unacceptable, but the purpose of this is NOT to self-medicate and feel better having expressed oneself openly -- it's to make the situation better and persuade the miscreant that they might have something to learn.

The test each time is whether our own personal intervention makes the world a better place, or simply creates one more injury to someone who has already suffered too much. And it's that personal suffering that causes us each to act unwisely. One challenge before the human race is how to reverse that massive inertial wheel of continued, damaging, cause-and-effect.

The greatest people and the greatest souls have all managed to access empathy and understanding under the greatest provocation. That's what we ask you to do. Take it easy. Make good use of this place. Many respect you. And if some a**hole is irritating you beyond all measure, then be thankful that they are not your actual physical neighbor, look the other way, and use the Ignore button.

With my sincere good wishes -- Bill


It made no difference. 9eagle9 sent a brief reply to the effect that the would attempt to self-moderate. She told me (my paraphrase) that flattery would not affect her.

We then watched to see what would happen next. Her unawareness of her effects on others continued almost immediately. She started to dominate the Horus-Ra thread, and the energy there changed. I was not willing to see that happen.

Her two week ban is, in a way, a taste of her own medicine. I can play her game (hitting her over the head with a big stick), if she won't play any other way. I can do the hardball thing if I feel it's called for. Ironically, that's one way in which 9eagle9 and I are similar. The difference is that she has no other way.

I'm now not willing to give this any more attention. I have many better things to do... and my guess is that you, reading this, do also.

This is part of the point. There's quite a degree of energy-vampirism and attention-seeking going on here, and it's a huge waste of time and energy. This is another aspect of how 9eagle9 is being used (by other forces, eager for all these energy-sucking opportunities) which she herself has not been able to see. She's being used.

Several other forum members have previously found themselves in this grip: they are no longer here. Next we'll see if 9eagle9 will learn, or whether her ego will justify all she is and has ever done -- which has been the predominant pattern so far.

[RunningDeer]

"Random Thoughts on Sharing Insights"

If I am impatient with another’s lack of knowledge, then that is my symptom. If I am annoyed, and say the same words over and over in louder octaves, that’s a sign of my laziness to tap into higher creativity of thought.

Why do I continue to express? Because there may be others that are ready for what I’ve come to understand. Knowledge shared is received in waves or levels for we are all unique individuals. It’s an opportunity for me to tap into a deeper creative space for another way to exchange insights. And I grow in my delivery style.

Teacher is the student. If a teacher does not consider herself to be a student of the Student, then I want no part of the exchange. We are all here to learn from one another. And by combining our unique parts to this grand scheme - there’s gonna be some mighty fine fireworks as this evolutionary phase finishes with high-fives and victory lapses.

Knowledge shared with compassion, patience, and genuine caring is an opportunity for a 'welcome home' message to awaken the DNA to Who We Are.

[wynderer]

from Bill's post, & this will be my only comment re 9eagle9:

'This is part of the point. There's quite a degree of energy-vampirism and attention-seeking going on here, and it's a huge waste of time and energy. This is another aspect of how 9eagle9 is being used (by other forces, eager for all these energy-sucking opportunities) which she herself has not been able to see. She's being used.'

i agree that 9eagle9 is being used -- when i was posting on the forum the last time i was here, some months ago, i enjoyed & appreciated her posts -- when i came back, i actually wondered to myself what had happened to her, why the tone of her posts had become so hostile & aggressive to others

& do we really need 'shock ' & 'big stick' therapy for abductees, who have not requested this ? [this abductee had never even heard of this bizarre 'therapeutic modality' till i began getting some of it] -- isn't that a part of the 'old paradigm,' one that many members say they want to see replaced by a new one?

[gooty64]

Thanks for offering to show us your communications with 9eagle but since they were apparently private to you, I would only want to see them if she wanted that to happen. I know you've done what you think is best and I respect you for that and agree that you have every right to do it.

This statement you made Nancy V. makes sense to me and sounds fair-imho.

This discussion seems a bit lop-sided without the consent of all parties and without the presence of each of them, considering the discussion is about them -imho.

[SilentFeathers]

"Random Thoughts on Sharing Insights"

If I am impatient with another’s lack of knowledge, then that is my symptom. If I am annoyed, and say the same words over and over in louder octaves, that’s a sign of my laziness to tap into higher creativity of thought.

Why do I continue to express? Because there may be others that are ready for what I’ve come to understand. Knowledge shared is received in waves or levels for we are all unique individuals. It’s an opportunity for me to tap into a deeper creative space for another way to exchange insights. And I grow in my delivery style.

Teacher is the student. If a teacher does not consider herself to be a student of the Student, then I want no part of the exchange. We are all here to learn from one another. And by combining our unique parts to this grand scheme - there’s gonna be some mighty fine fireworks as this evolutionary phase finishes with high-fives and victory lapses.

Knowledge shared with compassion, patience, and genuine caring is an opportunity for a 'welcome home' message to awaken the DNA to Who We Are.

This post sparked a memory in me, I wrote this a couple of years ago on my own blog;

"To become a great teacher one must first and foremost become a great student, and always remain a great student."

A frustrated and aggressive teacher and or student often times frustrates or agitates the whole classroom (or most of the classroom).

This 9eagle9 situation is what it is, whats done is done; (until the next time) :)

ADDED: Besides, there are more important life shattering issues we need to be more concerned about. Like this!

Prince Harry gets wet and wild with Olympics swimming champion Ryan Lochte and a bevy of bikini clad beauties at boozy Las Vegas pool party
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/prince-harry-wet-wild-olympics-swimming-champion-ryan-lochte-a-bevy-bikini-clad-beauties-boozy-las-vegas-pool-party-article-1.1140872

:cool:

[Heartsong]

Bill,
You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?

[CdnSirian]

Bill,
You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?

Sorry, but, unbelievable.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill,
You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?

Did you also read all the positive things I wrote in private, and then reposted in public? If you suspect I'm cheaply trying to damage her reputation, you may need to read again everything I wrote.

It would have been the easiest thing to banish her totally, yet I didn't do that. I even voted against the ban on her when viking was banned for a week. I want her to remain a part of the forum.

But I also want her to be more aware and responsible in what she says and how she says it. She didn't get the message at first, so I'm repeating it more clearly here.

What I'm doing is explaining a decision and reinforcing how the forum works, while casting a little transparency on the huge amount of time spent discussing issues like this behind the scenes. The moderators all care immensely about every single person here. And the key words here are every single person. Not just one person, who sometimes steals the limelight.

[Unified Serenity]

I personally find character assassination once a person is on vacation as a cheap shot. I think when someone gets baited over and over by a select crew on PA, and they finally have had enough, then sometimes the "tone" changes. It has been my direct experience that there is a crowd here on PA that gets away with a lot of cheap shots, accusatory messages about a member and that member's motives etc. which the mods do nothing about and then when someone finally does offer the poo flung at them back to the flingers, suddenly the situation is "negative" and must be dealt with. Occasionally, one of the flingers gets a vacation, but to me, this is ridiculous. This is about people claiming things, accusing, creating a ****storm behind the scenes, reporting certain people constantly and whining. The funny thing is, she probably won't be back, and someone will either fill the void or we will see a repeat of what happened on another forum recently where the very people who seemed so upset by certain members like 9Eagle9, suddenly started turning on themselves for their drama fixes.

I post here off an on now, but for me, having my own blog, and interacting elsewhere does have it's rewards. I have enjoyed getting to know some really great members here, but as I've been a part of PA since I think 2008, I've watched some amazingly brilliant people disappear because open discussion and sacred cow topics of some cannot be examined. This forum appears to be turning into a guru worshiping new age following don't ask questions arena, and that to me is not a good thing. There are still some great members and interesting threads, but they are becoming fewer and fewer in content and openness or feeling like one can even express their views without getting the "treatment".

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Heartsong's concerns are legitimate and I am sure Bill weighed them against an attempt to benefit the overall community and heal some of the wound that this situation has caused in all of us. Bill has earned his reputation as a man of compassion and honor who acts for the highest good of all beings, so let's not imply otherwise, ok?

In the past, many here have called for transparency after a mod action and Bill has generously given you that.

Bill, thank you for sharing the email. I find no fault ( not that it is my place to judge) and appreciate your effort. I make no judgement, but hold space for the highest good to manifest.

9eagle9, if you're reading this, a community that loves you awaits your return. Skype me any time.

Best Regards,

Whiskey


(finger pecked from my iPhone on a bumpy commute train)

[wynderer]

i was thinking about what it would be like to be a mod /admin on Avalon -- especially since i learned from Bill that you all volunteer for this work -- thank you

what came to mind is a saying in MENSA --'Leading Mensans is like trying to herd a group of cats' -- perhaps one could substitute 'Avalonians' for 'Mensans'

[Christine]

I just stood back to look, I admit that as I stand back I must wonder just how much have we all have advanced, wondering how easy we are pulled into defending, deflecting, mirroring and ruminating on something that is truly incomprehensible from a point of view that seeks to comprehend.

We have the capacity to hold space, to perceive a large amount of data, some contrary, some harmonious and some even unintelligible. I believe that our capacity is expanding. The moment that we are still inside we see. Simple. We comprehend. No agenda.

State what you see, explain what you know, explore what you believe, and please by all means share your experiences, profess your freedom, divulge your knowledge, speak in volumes and speak in poetry, speak your mind, speak your heart, yes lets hear it all... nothing to hide, nothing to prove.

But why, oh why do we take sides against each other, why do we accuse, why do we brandish our ignorance as intellect... why do we prod, implode, pressure to mold another to our beliefs. Our buttons are pushed and we claim someone else's buttons was pushed.

This action taken by the Bill and discussed by the moderators was not about right and wrong, was not about judging the merits or deleterious traits of one member over another. We have a job, and as no one of us can read all the material, even if we cared to, we can only strive to reach a decision, the best one based on all the available data. We always try to reach what we feel is best for the community that is Avalon.

And thankfully we do bring many different angles to the table and spread out our cards in full view. There is a dedication to truth and transparency, how the heck are we going to heal otherwise.

Thanks once again to every dedicated person on this forum… !

Christine

[SKAWF]

oh god i can see this is going to go well......

bill, i have seen many facets of 9eagle9's character.
IME she is capable of expressing a quite gentle nature in some circumstances.

(this post in fact this thread is like having every thread ive ever posted in, flash before my eye's)

i agree with what you said in one of the first posts

'You, and I, and everyone reading this, are all invisible. As spirits, we have no substance.
The only way we can be directly perceived is through what we do. That is how we project our presence on the physical world. That's the only evidence for who we are and what we stand for.'

my version is... my appreciation.... is the medium, through which i express myself.
kinda like a projector, and a slide. or a facet.

i know that 9eagle9 has many facets to her character.
thats the nature of those that have found, and live in accordance with 'truth'

i mean no disrespect to anyone here when i say this....
i read a lot from people who only have the one facet.
usually.... the mind.

i can see where she's coming from in a lot of respects....
it might appear that she's being abrasive sometimes..
but how does one convey what are sometimes harsh realities...
when one is wearing kid gloves?

i remember reading, or watching something where someone said something like....

you can tell someone what life was like in a communist prison, and they may say that it sounds bad.
you could show them pictures of one, and that might say that they wouldnt like to be there
you could take them to visit one that was closed down, and they might say how terrible life there must have been

but it isnt until they feel a military boot up their jaxi, or a rifle stock hitting them on the back of the neck
that they actually realise how bad it really was.
sometimes a message is lost in the post when it is delivered to someone's comfort zone.

there are always two extremes. obviously it would be cool if everyone got along
but sometimes a measure of just how bad things are at the time....
is if one is exposed to the other extreme, where things are really really bad.
that seems to make the minor things pale into insignificance

i cant agree with you though.... when you say that
hitting people over the head with a stick.... is the only method she employs.

thats not my experience of her.

i dont know her that well.
only from her words really,

i personally find her to be one of the most facinating individuals ive met online.
able to rabbit on about a whole range of subjects.

the desert island test is a good one.
mainly because its a longer term perspective
and the extremity of the situation would bring out the most rock solid aspects of someones character.
and like you, i couldnt apply that to many people.
not just because they would do my head in,
but because most of the people ive ever met dont have the strength of mind to cope with that kind of situation..

erm.... that'll do for this post.

cheers

steve

[Daughter of Time]

Bill,
You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?

I don't think 9eagle9's reputation has been damaged at all. Those who respected and valued her will continue to respect and value her when she comes back (I hope she does return) maybe even more than before since they will have missed her. Those who had problems with her, will continue to have problems with her if her acidic comments do not soften. I don't think any of her admirers will think less of her because of this discussion.

[ThePythonicCow]

This discussion seems a bit lop-sided without the consent of all parties and without the presence of each of them, considering the discussion is about them -imho.
There are two parties to discussions such as this ... the person who received the punishment (vacation or ban typically) and the "rest of us."

The reason for this discussion on this thread is not to adjudicate the treatment of the one who is not here. That matter was already handled, in private.

The reason for discussions like this is for the "rest of us", members and moderators, to continue the proper and ongoing discussion of how best to run this forum.

[RunningDeer]

Redundant from what I've already posted.

[doodah]

Here is something to think about:

Imagine the worst has happened, the CME has happened, there's no electricity, no modern world and never will be again, we're in whatever community we've ended up in if we didn't choose beforehand. What kind of community do we want in such a situation? We want one that can work together. That is going to be critical. Harmony in action would be a desirable goal, I would think, as opposed to the old top-down ego-driven arrangement.

If we haven't all done our own personal work beforehand, we'd just be taking our garbage with us. From my point of view, that sounds pretty unpleasant, given the overwhelming issues of physical survival that would of necessity be dominant.

I know some of you might not see the point of this post, but honestly every time I see the conflicts on Avalon -- which is such an unusual gathering of people -- I try to see how all these people might work together if they were in a community at the end of the world, so to speak.

For (present and) future harmony, it might be a good idea to be getting some of these things straightened out with ourselves now, just in case.

Peace and love to you all,
~ Doodah

[donk]

Felt the need to stick my perspective in here at the moment. This is from someone that read about 4-5 pages in the late 80 range last night, which was about 90% 9E9 posts, 5% blank wyn posts (that she apparently removed?), a Bill post mentioning that he deleted some posts, and the rest mostly observer...that's as far as I got, plus about up to reaver's thoughts on this particular thread...here's my take for what it's worth:

I was totally on board with almost everything 9e9 had to say (from around the time I started posting on the thread, no idea how far back that is...page 70 maybe?), she was dropping truth bombs I could totally relate to personally (I'm referring to pgs 80-90 or so, when wyn felt attacked), but until the middle of it in there somewhere I found some of it to be almost counter-productive. I can totally relate to the need to lose the victim-mentality, I personally needed a sledgehammer of truth crushing my pride when I was at rock bottom--and then to be kicked on top of it. And I wonder how many times that truth was given to me when I was still trapped in victim-mode--I am certain if i did then I took every one as a personal attack rather than the gift I should have recognized.

So as much as I agreed with just about everything she had to say, it didn't sit well with me. It seemed she was only preaching to the choir (those that recognized their responsibility in their victimhood), the "victims" she was trying to wake up or teach or whatever could never get the message in the way it was intended. Maybe that is where humility comes in, and maybe the need for slightly more compassion. Because once I got to the post where she says something to the effect of: Victims cannot recognize their victimhood without being told--and used the analogy of not being able to cure yourself from cancer until you know you have cancer--then I was energized to read more, hoping that everyone it applied to could now assume what I was able to at that point. To me, that was enough of a "spoonful of sugar" to take the bitter medicine, but I wonder how many who took her posts as offensive or whatever even "heard" that.

Because I personally hate to make assumptions. And it seems to me that for her to assume that her audience knew she felt that way, that victims are not to blame for not knowing they are being victims--until they learn it....it is hard to not take some of the stuff she said as attacks (if you are coming from victim mentality). Cuz what I was seeking from the thread, was ways of helping people see something SOOO hard to see in yourself. So many of her posts, I read as "blaming the victim for not recognizing they are a victim"...but only from the victim point of view--if that makes any sense. I feel I freed myself from most of the victim/denial mentality, so I could see where she was coming from...but I couldn't imagine that anyone not to that point in their self awareness would be able to get that.

I agree with a lot of people, where if you read her every word you will not find much in the way of direct personal attacks, that almost everything she said is important truth and tough love, but without that HUGE assuption (which is not fair to do--you know what happens when you ASSume) that she recognizes how hard it is to "diagnose" it in yourself, it must come across as something other than she intended. It came across to me that she took the attitude that this me, take it or leave it, I will not try a different way to make you understand--you should just "get it"...so it seemed to lack compassion, even though taking all that time and effort and energy to share her truths proves how compassionate she is and how much she cares.

Please note again, I am not completely up to speed...I don't know what was said beyond page 90 or so, I have no idea what was deleted. All of the above is my personal interpretation of the situation and what I BELIEVE, what I got out of...the thoughts shared by others--I do not mean to speak for anyone, especially not 9eagle9. And quite honestly, I have no idea if what I'm saying makes sense to anyone else...I learned a ton and valued her posts a lot...but did wyn's as well, and hated to see all those blank posts. I value every perspective I can get, but can totally see how some are hard for some people to take...just my lunch break ramblings....hopefully i'll get a chance to read and catch up (and edit my posts...sorry for any incoherency--but i gotta get back to the cracker factory...peace!

[Lettherebelight]

Regarding forum conduct...

I doubt that anyone has joined this forum to be criticised for their beliefs/values/views or whatever noun one would like use. We all have different views, our own spiritual-psychological perspectives. I don't think that needs to get in the way of a truly valuable exchange.

There is a profound like-mindedness that has brought us together here, from all over the world. When I joined the forum, I hoped that no one would have a go at me for my beliefs (faith), because I have some very strong ones. i mostly try to keep them to myself because I know many others may not feel the same, and could be annoyed or disturbed by them. Somehow they slip out from time to time, but everyone (including 9E9!) has been kind and understanding. I am not an apologist for my faith, beliefs, they are my innermost realisations, forged over years, lifetimes. I hold them dear and expect others to respect them, as I will respect theirs. No one here on Avalon has ever let me down.

I'm pretty sure most members here feel the same way about their ideas and realisations too?

So it is this profound like-mindedness that has brought us to Avalon. It is my view that we should support one another, and if differences come up, we should, in the main, just agree to disagree. It's our shared beliefs which count and will make us a strong and positive on-line community.

[DeDukshyn]

<boredom caused me to chime in again>

Bill,

Can I have a "character assassination" too? I would love to hear what you honestly think of me. (Don't worry I can handle it. I learned from 9Eagle not to care what others think or say). BTW I don't have any groupies, so there will be no backlash ;) ;)

BTW in case anyone missed it .. this post is pure satire, and I really don't want Bill wasting his time on me. ;) ;) And if I ever get banned -- please, no groupies running to my defence at all costs. I can be fully responsible for my own actions thank you very much.

[modwiz]

Here is something to think about:

Imagine the worst has happened, the CME has happened, there's no electricity, no modern world and never will be again, we're in whatever community we've ended up in if we didn't choose beforehand. What kind of community do we want in such a situation? We want one that can work together. That is going to be critical. Harmony in action would be a desirable goal, I would think, as opposed to the old top-down ego-driven arrangement.

If we haven't all done our own personal work beforehand, we'd just be taking our garbage with us. From my point of view, that sounds pretty unpleasant, given the overwhelming issues of physical survival that would of necessity be dominant.


I know I would want 9eagle9 as one of the people around me if the going got tough. Most people really have no point of reference to even begin to understand her. There are a few here. Too few.

Like mathematics; division, multiplication, adding and subtraction must be mastered before moving on to even algebra. Just as a professor of math would rightly presuppose their students were proficient in these basics, Chelley is like that professor. If she is in error, it would be this presumption. I do not find her in error.

Barry King aka Spirit Wolf also suffered the 'newbies' poorly and it cost him. Some of our advanced members are looking for special forces types because of the work that needs doing. When it is discovered that disengaging the safety on a firearm is still a challenge, the sparks fly.

Just an observation, no fingers pointed or excuses made.

[DeDukshyn]

Well said, but to add ...

Just because you understand someone doesn't mean you are giving them a free ticket to treat you like crap. One does not mean the other is acceptable. But I do agree that few understand her.

My 2 cents.

[modwiz]

Although I must admit that 9eagle9 administers very bitter medicine to most, it is not wynderer's first attempt at putting "you humans" down either:


[...]

I am shaking my head upon exiting this thread but not surprised. I am going to be in other threads to share where I can but mostly learn and exchange ideas, which one can only do with an open mind.
It is a waste of time and energy having a debate [with] people that frame a debate for the sake of debate and not frame of reference on a subject or with a someone that desperately clings to the delusional belief that they are a spiritually superior “reptilian hybrid” “visitor” “not from this planet” that “doesn't understand” us/or “You Humans” that they are here on a mission to “wake up”? This is a non Human who has pickled their brain on several of up to “3 year” “alcoholic binges” and who knows what else (ALL Their words not mine)?

[...]

It took me a while to figure out who Corey was talking about and where all these quotes came from but I did.

Thank you Corey and Amer Zo for bringing to light one of the problems we deal with here on PA, IMO. The lost lost and wounded posting as if they are hale and hearty mentally and physically. Those who can help are faced with shutting up, coddling or just enabling. Yes, there are other solutions, but they are a compromise. I don't want my information compromised any more than I want my immune system compromised. Society, culture and the immune system analogy are very apropos here.

[modwiz]

Well said, but to add ...

Just because you understand someone doesn't mean you are giving them a free ticket to treat you like crap. One does not mean the other is acceptable. But I do agree that few understand her.

My 2 cents.

I give her a free ticket to point out my crap to me any day. It is the equivalent of pointing out a misstep that will cause you pain and further suffering. Of course, she will be challenged doing so. I have had some point out what they think is my crap to me. It was their crap that they stuck on me.

I have softened my battle stance. I like it here on the forum.

Want change on that two cents? :p

[DeDukshyn]

Well said, but to add ...

Just because you understand someone doesn't mean you are giving them a free ticket to treat you like crap. One does not mean the other is acceptable. But I do agree that few understand her.

My 2 cents.

I give her a free ticket to point out my crap to me any day. It is the equivalent of pointing out a misstep that will cause you pain and further suffering. Of course, she will be challenged doing so. I have had some point out what they think is my crap to me. It was their crap that they stuck on me.

I have softened my battle stance. I like it here on the forum.

Want change on that two cents? :p

Haha I so understand what you are saying, but (being the devil's advocate I love to play) ... :p One can point out my crap in a myriad of ways -- this to me is the variable in question. Where is the line between someone pointing out your crap to you and sticking crap on you then pointing it out? This is why that variable is important .. especially to those who don't understand her.

My 2.5 cents after receiving change from Modwiz on the last two ;)

[gripreaper]

Gripreaper, although it is not my place to apologize for attaching you to this matter ,and I have no idea how your name got mangled up in this, I realize I am very self determined person and some people do not like having others attaching themselves to my energy anymore I like being attached or drug into this sort of petty inane energy. If a drama is not provided they will find a way to create one, and again this provides its own evidence of where I am often coming from.

If you were not party to this, I am very sorry that you got used and drug into the personal grievances of Dennis and Company. If you were party to this , well I'm sorry to hear it but there's that saying about lying down with dogs.


Nope. Not attached to this drama at all. Dennis made an attempt to be humorous by making a "parody" video, and apparently his attempt failed miserably, and I was referenced somehow. I was not "In on it" at all. As luck would have it, I was out of town at a wedding for several days and did not see the 9eagle9 posts which were deleted. Other than that, I don't know what happened as I avoid that type of energy and find 9eagle9's posts difficult to read sometimes, so I just skim over them.

I'm not offended, I'm not involved, did not have anything to do with it, and I'm not interested in what happened or how I may have been implicated. Dennis did PM me and asked if I was offended, and I told him "it's all good" and Dennis and I are fine. As far as what happened with 9eagle9, I did not read her posts.

I really appreciate the Horus Ra thread as one of the most important threads this Forum has ever had, and since I am overwhelmed by it and do not have enough background to comment, I'm just reading it. My two cents would not add value to it and it is already way too long, so I've refrained.

I've been observing all this and waiting for the Forum energy to shift and I am totally detached from it.

[Christine]

Well said, but to add ...

Just because you understand someone doesn't mean you are giving them a free ticket to treat you like crap. One does not mean the other is acceptable. But I do agree that few understand her.

My 2 cents.

I give her a free ticket to point out my crap to me any day. It is the equivalent of pointing out a misstep that will cause you pain and further suffering. Of course, she will be challenged doing so. I have had some point out what they think is my crap to me. It was their crap that they stuck on me.

I have softened my battle stance. I like it here on the forum.

Want change on that two cents? :p

Haha I so understand what you are saying, but (being the devil's advocate I love to play) ... :p One can point out my crap in a myriad of ways -- this to me is the variable in question. Where is the line between someone pointing out your crap to you and sticking crap on you then pointing it out? This is why that variable is important .. especially to those who don't understand her.

My 2.5 cents after receiving change from Modwiz on the last two ;)

Another two cents... and the question that begs to be answered, did I ask you to point out my crap?

If I didn't then quite frankly I would ask you to leave my space alone.... maybe I am not ready for your crap pointing outness or maybe I have just endured a crushing emotional blow, or maybe I have spent the night fighting off some ET implanter, or maybe I am just plain not in the mood to have someone pointing out my crap... and maybe that someone pointing out my crap doesn't understand me at all. And maybe I think your crap pointing is full of crap.

And maybe I just am not that good at expressing myself in writing and what I say looks like crap but it really isn't.

Oh s**t this is too much crap. Oh dear this is really not like me, care to comment?

I think maybe that was about half a penny.

[DeDukshyn]

Yeah, that's probably worth more than my 2.5c, actually ... ;)

[jp11]

Well said, but to add ...

Just because you understand someone doesn't mean you are giving them a free ticket to treat you like crap. One does not mean the other is acceptable. But I do agree that few understand her.

My 2 cents.

I give her a free ticket to point out my crap to me any day. It is the equivalent of pointing out a misstep that will cause you pain and further suffering. Of course, she will be challenged doing so. I have had some point out what they think is my crap to me. It was their crap that they stuck on me.

I have softened my battle stance. I like it here on the forum.

Want change on that two cents? :p

Haha I so understand what you are saying, but (being the devil's advocate I love to play) ... :p One can point out my crap in a myriad of ways -- this to me is the variable in question. Where is the line between someone pointing out your crap to you and sticking crap on you then pointing it out? This is why that variable is important .. especially to those who don't understand her.

My 2.5 cents after receiving change from Modwiz on the last two ;)

Another two cents... and the question that begs to be answered, did I ask you to point out my crap?

If I didn't then quite frankly I would ask you to leave my space alone.... maybe I am not ready for your crap pointing outness or maybe I have just endured a crushing emotional blow, or maybe I have spent the night fighting off some ET implanter, or maybe I am just plain not in the mood to have someone pointing out my crap... and maybe that someone pointing out my crap doesn't understand me at all. And maybe I think your crap pointing is full of crap.

And maybe I just am not that good at expressing myself in writing and what I say looks like crap but it really isn't.

Oh s**t this is too much crap. Oh dear this is really not like me, care to comment?

I think maybe that was about half a penny.

Christine, I really appreciate your sense of humor...and I couldn't have said it better!

Many of us here are strong willed, been there done that, been at this self discovery thingee for a long time and unless requested do not want input from someone who deems her/himself a teacher.

Like some have said I have learned to not read a lot of 9eagle's stuff...because the way she communicates is unnecessarily harsh imho. I appreciate other's wisdom when offered without the head bashing. I myself can and have been pretty damn nasty in my life, played the victim game until I understood that and then did the best I knew, the fastest way I was able, to move beyond that. And there were people in my life along the way that I did trust and ask for assistance. Still some things were hard to hear but because of the trust in them and then in myself I knew when to tell them to shut the FU! I can take it from here, unless I tell you different.

I have also learned the hard way, unless asked, to not offer my take on someone elses life or dramas. We all have stories, and I do the best I can to not carry mine with me in my travels.

Thank you all for your insights. It really does add to my life and expansion.

[another bob]

"Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellowmen. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone."

~Carlos Castaneda

[Christine]

“Only as a warrior can one withstand the path of knowledge. A warrior cannot complain or regret anything. His life is an endless challenge, and challenges cannot possibly be good or bad. Challenges are simply challenges.”

― Carlos Castaneda

I always find inspiration from Carlos Castaneda.... thanks for reminding me to look there again.

[Flash]

A great teacher I had the chance t meet told me something, probably on our third meeting, and I cried for 2 months. As odly as it may seem, I do not remember what was said, only that this crying freed me from very oprressive feelings and I saw life differently afterwards. In fact, I know my daughter would not have been raised the same way had I not have this said to me (she was a baby then). I hated him for a while, hesitated to see him again, but went back because I trusted the person who sent me.

For the last fifteen years, everything is coherent, straight and really loving with this teacher. I was the one who's ego could not take the teaching.

If I had followed my ego, I would have been offucasted and would not have seen the gift, the freeing gift given to me.

9Eagle9 often has the same impact. She is direct, coherent within herself and somwhat disburbing to fragile beings or people in denial. However, the gifts given are often not seen. She knows precisely what she is doing and why. And often I would do the same for those I love, tough love, when needed, to make sure they free themselves.

Strong people are often the one being leveled down to "normalcy", even in forums like this one it seems. I must even say that here normalcy is the British/American views, cause criticisms are much more welcome and arguments a show of intelligence in French European environments for example.

If we want to grow past humanity's infancy, maybe "normalcy" should be avoided and wisdom listented to, in any ways it is pronounced and spoken, since there is so little of it around.

Here was my 2 cents.

I would let 9Eagle9 name and point my problems anytime as well, in the way she thinks the best, knowing that my learning is there. Modiwiz, Carmody, Ulli, Whietfeatrher, US, Another Bob, Sierra, and others can all do the same in their respective ways, I will gladly listen and ponder. This is how ones progresses (avoiding to soak constantly in ones' own often distorted vision of the world and taking in others' input independently of the way it is presented looking at the content instead of the format).

I have seen obvious but most probably unconscious manipulations which 9Eagle9 was not the creator of in the other thread, but was definitely the target. She just, in my view, pushed it back - strong pushes - for greater overall awareness. Not easy to do, I do admire her for this, it takes courage and risk taking.

[wynderer]

such a species-centric species Humans are -- all this focus on one Human being as your planet is being nuked & trashed & being taken over by a hostile ET junta --score one for the archons

[SKAWF]

i think that once we get over... or transcend the initial reaction to what people say..

you know, whether we feel empowered or attacked

we are left only with balance.

its easy to feel attacked, and then to say that someone is attacking.
but isnt that applying ones own reaction to someone else's words?

over sensitivity often clouds one's own objectivity.

this is why boxers are taught not to fight with anger.
the imbalance removes the critical under pressure thinking,
which is required to overcome the adversity.

i'll also echo something that christine said earlier about turning on each other.

taking a supportive, or opposed position is exactly the same as being polarized.
which is the basis of divide and rule.

if anything, it shouldnt really be about one side or the other.
its about both sides at the same time
(then one really gets to see how the game works)

balance is a triple state.
you get to appreciate both sides, without losing objectivity.

we need to break away from polarity
otherwise we will continue to be played by those who know how the game works.

conversely

its the positives, and the negatives..... the E-motion
that enriches any experience we have.
we would lose that if we always occupied a state of balance.

ask any artist......
they do their best work when they are at the extremes, or in a struggle to 'get there'.

i love to be corrected.

short term, there is a little sting
but the benefits manifest in the longer term.

learning a lesson has never been pleasurable,
but no one can doubt the benefits of the experience.

something else about balance is,
if someone has a positive disposition, and they encounter someone who is balanced,
then balance appears to be negative, and vice versa.

balance also prevents 'energy vampirism'.
they never get the reaction that they are looking for.
and their motives become obvious
when one's perspective is not swayed by the emotional nature,
of their manipulation

steve

[TheVoyager]

I find it interesting that this discussion is mostly about 9eagle9 behavior, and not about the complete dynamics that brought to her involuntary vacation.

The archonic forces work through us all the time, they know all our weak spots and play on them all the time. Emotions are our big weak spot, so it seams. Our emotions can be played as a violin when one is not conscious, and even when one is in the process of becoming conscious it is sometimes very hard to discern what is really going on.

I have had lots of opportunities in my life to experience one of their strongest manipulations that allow these energies-entities to suck our vital force and have us enslaved in lower levels of consciousness. It seams that these forces know us perfectly and I would say that one of their favorite games is called "poor me, I'm a victim" attitude. I have lived this situation from the outside and from the inside, so mine is not some theoretical talk. It took me years to realize it and to learn to see the cunning "poor me" manipulations flowing in both directions; from the outside world and from myself.

The "look at me, I'm a victim, you should fell compassion for me and help me" attitude is just one of many archonic tricks. Real compassion is something completely different, it comes from the inside and cannot be forced to be felt just because of the other's poor me behavior. I'm afraid that at this point I am still unable to put in words the difference between forced and real compassion. We don't know the taste of an apple until we have tried it. We can talk about it and make comparisons as how it tastes, but real knowledges comes, so it seams, only from biting into it, from experiencing it.

I have seen this type of dynamic in the latest I don't know how many posts on the Horus - Ra thread and I was not enjoying it. At the beginning it was interesting to see the manipulations of these same forces the thread is about, and how they can operate through us without us knowing it.

Btw, I find Horus - Ra thread one of the most important threads that I've read.

I was puzzled to see that 9eagle9, with so much wisdom that she has, fell into this game. I could observe that the pendulum was getting his momentum - it's dominant opposing parts, the forces on its extreme, (always from my point of view!) were 9eagle9 and wynderer. It looked like they were fueling the same pendulum and it's swing was getting stronger and stronger. The only way to stop the swing it would be to stop fueling it, and neither wynderer nor 9eagel9 did it. The rest what it happened we know.

I am not aware about 9eagle9's previous communication conflicts that Bill Ryan was talking about and that led to one member of the forum to be banned permanently. I can only talk from myself. I find most of her posts very interesting and I would be sorry if she wouldn't come back. I learn from her posts. I don't enjoy reading the stories from the opposite side of the pendulum. I know what they do. They are not by no means weaker in what their effect is, I would dare to say they might be even more destructive because they feed us with a false conviction that we are helpless.

On the other hand, this is Bill Ryan's forum which is governed by his rules. Which simply means take it or leave it.

[wynderer]

re 'big stick' therapy -- y'all will experience some of that when your controllers begin applying what they are learning about control of Humans thru what they do to milabs & abductees [&, of course, billions of lab Animals] -- when they start applying all they've learned to you, you'll all know the Big Stick

since this thread is a discussion of 'conduct,' i think this post fits -- one could look at it from another p.o.v. -- a group of hi-ranking Reptilians aware of this thread, & laughing at the [as usual] predictable conduct of Humans

[wynderer]

edit: i think my post is on-topic -- a quote from post #1 by Houman on the original Horus-Ra thread re Maarit, whose name is in the thread title:

'Maarit, a Scandinavian MILAB abductee ' -- note the MILAB/abductee

a bit more re conduct & 'big stick' 'therapy' from 'O'Finioan's Blog' --

'On Compassion, Healing, and the Battle for Your Soul'

This post is jointly presented by Duncan O’Finioan, Miranda Kelley, Randy Maugans and Annalie Cummings.

[clip]
“Just being able to talk to people who understand me, who acknowledge that what I went through was real, and show me they feel compassion for what I went through has made more difference to me than any individual type of healing.”

Where is the Compassion?
Where is it? This is an honest question. Look around, look at the community at large, look at all the little ego-driven battles being fought over information, and what don’t you see? Compassion.

What’s the point in wanting or trying to make this world a better place, if you do not treat yourself and others with compassion? Have you noticed how examples of compassion have been excised from the world at large? Have you noticed that most discussions are based on a battle of wills, he said/she said, dirt slinging and superiority? Have you noticed that the controlled media provides very few examples of compassion in action?

We are Being Tenderized
This has been done purposefully, and done in the hopes that you won’t even notice. Why has it been done? As a society, we are being sprinkled with dump trucks full of tenderizer to soften and prepare us to be unfeeling, empty, hollow ego-driven status hungry individuals so that our souls will be ceded over that much more easily. And it’s all being done under the guise of free will. Hey, they’re not forcing us to give our souls away, they’re just setting up the optimal conditions for it. It’s our choice.

The list of tenderizers is long: Vaccines, chemtrails, images of violence, gratuitous sex barren of any form of affection or love, fluoride, drama, and the list goes on and on … and on. All of this ravages our DNA, deadens our hearts and depletes our spirits and turns us into mindless automatons who can’t even remember why we have a soul in the first place. And it makes it okay to be mean.

How sad is it that we sit here and have to tell people that no, it’s actually not okay, despite the plentiful examples you are shown, to be a mean, nasty, shouty person? Do you see how we are being taught that the important thing is to be able to win arguments at any cost?'

[clip]
http://duncanofinioan.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/on-compassion-healing-and-the-battle-for-your-soul/

[Lettherebelight]

On forum management...

I hear people talking a lot about teaching, learning lessons about ourselves, tough love in the form of harsh advice for the benefit of ourselves.

I don't come to this forum for that. Perhaps, in the course of exchange, I may learn something about myself...but I do not come here to be taught anything about myself.
I think it's often the case that thoughtful people are their own harshest critics. And from my observations, I would say that most of the folks here are very thoughtful people.

Something to think about, and a few people, including Bill, have mentioned this, is that this is a public meeting place. We can learn about ourselves from others, yes, but is an online forum the best place to do this? The good folk here really know very little about me and my life, what I have done or what I may know or what my particular circumstances are. I would wager that we know only a very small fraction of the lives of even the busiest posters here. It's different of course, if someone asks for advice about themselves...that is their choice to do so.

I would much rather experience a guru, shaman, life coach, or whatever, face to face, or at least in a more direct fashion.

My point is, is that even though there are clear barriers (ie. pseudonyms, distance, language, etc) to having deep personal exchanges with one another here, our exchanges will be effective to the degree that we always keep in mind our shared reasons for being here.

That might sound mamby pamby to some, but it is really the only way a forum like this can work, otherwise it could end up everyone (or some) trying to control or influence others. It's very easy to become over familiar and make the the mistake of encroaching on someone's sovereign territory.

...Or maybe it's just good practise for learning to protect our sovereign territory? :p

[Flash]

yes compassion Wynderer, compassion, you are right, but do you hear it?

As for the common purpose of being on this forum, it is different for each of us, even the sounding of these words is different fro each of us, so how common is the purpose? Personnally i do learn everywhere I go, this is definitly a purpose as well, intented or not.

The common thread, when diversity is sooooo large (here on this forum is a real example), IS compassion. Duncan and others are right on this. Each showing it with its own abilities and ways. Duncan is one tough cookie when its time for compassion, he does not bite on his words, yet, everyone can see his compassion, in his own ways. Compassion from all side may be one of the keys.

imho

[SKAWF]

some people play on the compassionate nature of others.

surely if someone has gone through a bad experience , they should be shown compassion.
it will help them with the transition from one state, back into something approaching normal.

but life is hard.

for everyone.

at some point we have to stand on our own two feet,
like everyone else has to.

is there any difference between sympathy and compassion?

bad experiences are all relative. its the same 'feeling' underneath,
even if the road into it is different for each person.

along with sympathy and compassion, comes patience.

personally, i would be sympathetic to someone for so long,
and if i saw no movement from them,
no effort to get themselves together

if i saw that they would be quite happy to milk my sympathy for all it was worth.....

i would lose my patience.

then it becomes tough love

we each have a duty to ourselves to take response ability for our own lives

by constantly giving sympathy to those who have endured bad experiences,
IMO actually enables the victim mentality to establish itself in the mind of the abused.

i have seen it in this thread........
no doubt a few others have too.

steve

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Hi, All:

For anyone here who still may not fully understand my and this forum's position -- please read this post here. It's very important.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=542558&viewfull=1#post542558

You're welcome to continue to discuss the specifics of the issue of safety on the forum on this thread here. Please keep the Horus-Ra thread and the Clones and Hybrids thread (where this post started) on-topic. It's important to do that. Many thanks.

Let me say again: I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.

This is non-negotiable. If anyone wants to throw cheap invective around at people who are honestly grappling with their personal involvement in these and other subjects, they're welcome to go to Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions. :)

[Unified Serenity]

This is probably my last reply on this issue because I don't think PA will change in regards to my perception of how threads get derailed and some members get the "treatment" by others who seem to get a pass for their rude and negative behavior towards a member whose opinions they don't like.


Let me say again: I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.

This is non-negotiable. If anyone wants to throw cheap invective around at people who are honestly grappling with their personal involvement in these and other subjects, they're welcome to go to Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions. :)

It has been my experience that many times certain members such as 9Eagle9 and myself do not get a "safe space" to share our thoughts. I can be dealing with a topic and discussing my views of that topic only to have the same members jump in and start the character assassination, judgments about why I am here, rude comments and insults, and outright tell me to get off the forum. I ignored them for a long time in that I did not just return insult for insult, but pointed out they were attacking me or doing ad hominem or straw man arguments to derail my threads. These same people would follow me around the forum and it seemed there was even a group of them. They would use the thanks button and support outrageous attacks all while claiming they never say anything bad or make personal attacks, but where I am from, if you show support to someone who is rude to another then that's agreement and thus you are attacking through a proxy. I left Avalon for some time, and guess what? Those people who had not participated on that forum for a year or more suddenly showed up there and attacked me there as well.

I have seen more support of allowing for communication within the past couple of months, but how long have I been a part of PA? How many years have I dealt with what I will in an umbrella call liberal members attacking me because of my conservative viewpoints? Yes, it does very much feel like the left vs right methodology. Except there are a lot more mods who a liberals and thus they don't see it as an attack, they let these members say some pretty rude things, and then when I mirror it back, suddenly I am not keeping the peace and I have a bad attitude.

Whether or not I care for someone's style of delivering a message, I have no right to psychoanalyze them, ridicule them, or play games on their threads by derailing them over and over. I do have a sour taste in my mouth over this after so many years, and it appears to be a double standard here. If members really were not allowed to make personal attacks against other members then the mods should stop it immediately, and I would bet they would cease that behavior. But, it appears some like to play little games of basically seeing what they can get away with and still not get in trouble for it. Some even started threads where they might as well have taken my picture and put it in the title, and talked about their feelings about me, but hey, they never mentioned my name or 9eagle9's name, so it was like this glorious orgy of insults in one thread and anyone with two neurons to rub together knew who they were referring to. It's the same people who regularly take umbridge with my views and launch into their insults and "helpful" advice. Advice is only helpful when it comes from a heartfelt place of love and understanding, and not a place of "I'm going to give you some help sweetie (idiot) and while we are at it, why are you so ......... "(list of character attributes they don't like which is basically a nice way to throw insults at someone all in the guise of helping them).

Some members have me on ignore. They don't like my views or my method of posting and that is their right to do so. I think it's probably the best way to handle someone who you can't stand their style of communication. I have a handful on my ignore list as well because in the years I have been here, I don't find their comments particularly funny, entertaining, informative, or useful and rather than get my knickers in a wad even if they are responding to my post, I just don't read their comments anymore, it's useless, and no matter how rude they are, mods are not going to do anything about it when it comes to their little insults towards me.

So, while I admire your statement Bill, that you are going to keep PA a safe place for members to post, I don't think it is for some of us. By the very fruit that has grown and flourished here for some time, some members are given a lot more room to show their *** than others are. I have never enjoyed calling others names or making fun of them. It's not in my nature and no matter how much ooey gooey love and light some pretend to emanate, just let something I say bother them, and it's amazing how rude, insulting, divisive they become. I feel more and more, that it's time to tap the dust and move on, and I think I will.

[Bill Ryan]

----

Dear Unified Serenity -- let me say this in a different way again.

I understand the point about victim mentality: I really do. The point is (and forgive the caricature) that beating someone around the head who is complaining that they're a victim is not always likely to help them realize that they're anything else. :)

There are other ways. Empathy and compassion are among them. We should always all have carrots and sticks in our first aid toolkits. Note that in my last response to 9eagle9 I used a stick myself -- after the carrot failed.

Some people seem to only have sticks, and they don't always work. It's really a matter of practicality in the end.

[SilentFeathers]

I agree with much of what you say US....but always speak your truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) if someone doesn't like it, well, that is on them.

I will always speak my truth and if I get banned or ridiculed for it so be it.....BUT, I WILL NEVER FORCE my truth upon another. That's what many try to do and we see what can happen, it causes unnecessary conflict. I will also not tolerate another FORCING their truth upon me either.....I may respond or just walk away from insults or aggressive behavior .....very seldom will I ever engage in lengthy disputes over conflicting perceptions, that usually only ends up like a skipping record (remember the scratched record phonograph days?) :)

Speak your truth! if people refuse to listen, oh well.

PS: and for the ignore list thing, I think that is ridiculous.......if I'm constantly harassed here I'll just simply leave.....

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_kUZRdEpN0o/UDUNOUL8oXI/AAAAAAAACbA/HRvHTcVSUKg/s640/7%2520teachings.jpg

[Sebastion]

Well Unified Serenity, I have observed it to be exactly what you have said in your last post and therefore agree. As far as your statement about tapping the dust, it reminded me of a line in a song which stated "I've been a long time leaving, but I'll be a long time gone". I think that deserves deeper consideration on my part.

[write4change]

Hi everyone, I am traveling across the states on route 40 and I am looking for a place to live that I can afford and that has the possibility for building and intentional community of consicous people. That has been my goal since I came on this site 18 months ago. I finally decided talking was never going to get it and to act on my own belief system.

The reason I am taking the time to write this at a McDonald's while I feel the need to get on the road again. Is the importance of answering the question of what would we do in and end of world as we know it situation with ourselves and with others. I think Avalon has been grappling with that question in many different ways since I came here. I was very naive when I came here and has grown much more internet aware since then.

I have read the entirety of this thread. I have been reading the Horous thread all to page 50 and then sections since then and intend to go back. But I have missed all of this.

I have had considereable contact with Eagle on the phone and she got me thru a tough space over a year ago. I will always love and respect her but I will never totally agree with her. I will get into a more detailed discussion of what has occured between Eagle and I later. I want to talk in more general terms now.

On Netflix there is a series called the Colony which is about an actual group of people trying to survive in Los Angeles after a major cataclismic event that is never defined. The secons season is another group trying to deal with an after Katrina enviornment in New Orleans. Both of these seasons are sponsored and commented on by experts from Homeland Security.

I had both of these recorded because some of the information in reality is priceless. How to actually build things like gathering car batteries about 12 wiring them up together and producing with integrating with solar energy some electricity etc. While this was my major reason for watching---I know I am mechanics poor---the interactions of the group and effectiveness of leadership was very eye opening. Neither group could ever choose what was best for the group but what "felt" best for the most people. Always the most knowlegable and qualified people and usually older (maybe my biasis) were not allowed to lead but only clean up and fix when things really got screwed up.

When I was 26, I was working on a Master's in psychology at San Francisco State. The in thing at that time was transactional analysis and setting up gestalts---which is some of what occurs in many threads here. When I was young and full of ego and brains without much experience, I was very good at "psyching" out what was really going on with the client in the " chair". I was so good that I stopped whatever work they were doing. What I learned from riding rough shod over their work not being done my way in my time is that no one can do their own work without acceptance of their way which then allows them to "see" more. Telling the "person in the chair" what is really happening when they are not ready or able to see it themself---stops the progress they are making. Thus, as a therapist I was so right that I was totally wrong. BTW. I got that I was a product of my training and my training and many of my teachers sucked at healing the human soul. I finished the Master's but never finished the clinical and never practicied as a psychologist because I got smart enough to know how much I did not know and would not learn this way.

Eagle has gotten much sharper over this last year and I think to the point she is out of balance. Does that mean I would not allow her to bash me with a stick? No, sometime I need a big wake up. Do I want her to stay? Absolutely. Is it time for a different kind of discussion -- definitely yes. Why? Because with knowledge and power and influrence come much responsibility. You cannot have one without the other because then they are just talking points.

What I know because I have been watching this specifically since March is that Eagle needs this break. She spends a lot of time here. She needs to see what that is really serving.

In several threads, we have both discussed horses, their training and their behavior. From Eagle I get that you tell them and you make them and you some what fear them. My horse experience is I study the animal and seeks its mind before I buy them. Then we share teaching and learning with respect. When it is time to jump and I am ready and I know they can feel that--I ask them to jump. For me, for us, for the joy of the jump and they always do. I started jumping at 55 and falling hurt bad. My horses never refused out and when I fell it was because I was not ready or I was not paying total attention to my environment.

Thanks for listening I will be back later to continue this discussion.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

such a species-centric species Humans are -- all this focus on one Human being as your planet is being nuked & trashed & being taken over by a hostile ET junta --score one for the archons

Every one of us holds the entire universe enfolded within us
And so perhaps every one of us is that important
And that insignificant.
After all, there is only One of us here.

[Christine]

This is probably my last reply on this issue because I don't think PA will change in regards to my perception of how threads get derailed and some members get the "treatment" by others who seem to get a pass for their rude and negative behavior towards a member whose opinions they don't like.


Let me say again: I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.

This is non-negotiable. If anyone wants to throw cheap invective around at people who are honestly grappling with their personal involvement in these and other subjects, they're welcome to go to Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions. :)

It has been my experience that many times certain members such as 9Eagle9 and myself do not get a "safe space" to share our thoughts. I can be dealing with a topic and discussing my views of that topic only to have the same members jump in and start the character assassination, judgments about why I am here, rude comments and insults, and outright tell me to get off the forum. I ignored them for a long time in that I did not just return insult for insult, but pointed out they were attacking me or doing ad hominem or straw man arguments to derail my threads. These same people would follow me around the forum and it seemed there was even a group of them. They would use the thanks button and support outrageous attacks all while claiming they never say anything bad or make personal attacks, but where I am from, if you show support to someone who is rude to another then that's agreement and thus you are attacking through a proxy. I left Avalon for some time, and guess what? Those people who had not participated on that forum for a year or more suddenly showed up there and attacked me there as well.

I have seen more support of allowing for communication within the past couple of months, but how long have I been a part of PA? How many years have I dealt with what I will in an umbrella call liberal members attacking me because of my conservative viewpoints? Yes, it does very much feel like the left vs right methodology. Except there are a lot more mods who a liberals and thus they don't see it as an attack, they let these members say some pretty rude things, and then when I mirror it back, suddenly I am not keeping the peace and I have a bad attitude.

Whether or not I care for someone's style of delivering a message, I have no right to psychoanalyze them, ridicule them, or play games on their threads by derailing them over and over. I do have a sour taste in my mouth over this after so many years, and it appears to be a double standard here. If members really were not allowed to make personal attacks against other members then the mods should stop it immediately, and I would bet they would cease that behavior. But, it appears some like to play little games of basically seeing what they can get away with and still not get in trouble for it. Some even started threads where they might as well have taken my picture and put it in the title, and talked about their feelings about me, but hey, they never mentioned my name or 9eagle9's name, so it was like this glorious orgy of insults in one thread and anyone with two neurons to rub together knew who they were referring to. It's the same people who regularly take umbridge with my views and launch into their insults and "helpful" advice. Advice is only helpful when it comes from a heartfelt place of love and understanding, and not a place of "I'm going to give you some help sweetie (idiot) and while we are at it, why are you so ......... "(list of character attributes they don't like which is basically a nice way to throw insults at someone all in the guise of helping them).

Some members have me on ignore. They don't like my views or my method of posting and that is their right to do so. I think it's probably the best way to handle someone who you can't stand their style of communication. I have a handful on my ignore list as well because in the years I have been here, I don't find their comments particularly funny, entertaining, informative, or useful and rather than get my knickers in a wad even if they are responding to my post, I just don't read their comments anymore, it's useless, and no matter how rude they are, mods are not going to do anything about it when it comes to their little insults towards me.

So, while I admire your statement Bill, that you are going to keep PA a safe place for members to post, I don't think it is for some of us. By the very fruit that has grown and flourished here for some time, some members are given a lot more room to show their *** than others are. I have never enjoyed calling others names or making fun of them. It's not in my nature and no matter how much ooey gooey love and light some pretend to emanate, just let something I say bother them, and it's amazing how rude, insulting, divisive they become. I feel more and more, that it's time to tap the dust and move on, and I think I will.



United Serenity,

You always make strong arguments, and quite often very valid one, this is your style and forte. I would just like to make one brief comment in the light of what we are discussing here. There is no way that we as a group can make decisions based on one persons perspective, the nature of community is, well just that community. Please consider that we may or may not be aware of what you are describing as blatant character assassinations or ad hominem attacks. We simply don't have the band width or inclination to go post by post reading every comment. We depend on members to shed light on what they feel is abusive and sometimes issues simply jump off the page at one or the other of us.

If you were privy to the back ground discussions and the enormous amount of time, care and consideration every single mod brings to every decision especially the hard ones you might possibly change your opinion that we are biased.

This is an incredibly astute, committed and spiritual group of people... not one of us claiming to have all the answers. The labels liberal, conservative or whatever are not part of the equation. In my short tenure it is clear that we all are striving to maintain a modem of harmonious interchange on the forum. After all we are all but mirrors for each other and we tend to see in others what we ourselves project.

Personally I get tremendous value from your posts and 9eagle9's as well as many others... Vivek, DOT, justoneman, Houman, Amzer Zo, Gripreaper, Limor, Ulli, the list is long. Even when I make personal judgements as of course I must, it is my experience that I can encompass a whole and therefore perform a job which is called moderator.

This I hold as my truth as you hold yours and that is where we can meet.

Thanks once again for all you contribute to PA, it does not go unnoticed, I mean that even at the risk you may think I am insincere.

Christine

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Unified Serenity,

Thank you for your excellent post.

I hear what you are saying and recognize that I myself have had kneejerk angry reactions to your point of view from time to time. (I have often admitted that I am a hot-head) I think there is indeed a lack of tolerance for what are traditionally considered "conservative" viewpoints. I think that many here see the warping of those viewpoints as well as the warping of "liberal" values to be the core of the problem. These value systems have been twisted and used against us to the point that we become very reactive to them.

My invitation to you is to be cautious of labeling any point of view that is opposed to yours as "liberal". Labeling everything liberal and conservative only adds to our polarity and stakes out ground to defend. The word "liberal" has been used as a weapon to the point that it's use is a blanket invalidation of an entire person's input. It is so vague as to be practically meaningless as a descriptor and is often hurled as an insult.

Personally, I consider myself neither "liberal" nor "conservative". I am a commonsensican. In political terms, I have registered for both American parties at different times. (I'm not sure it did any good, ha ha)

I guess what I am trying to say is that your point is very well made and also let's be careful not to divide up into the camps that are offered us by those who would control us.

With respect,

Whiskey

[Daughter of Time]

On Teaching:

No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge.

The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.

If he is inded wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threashold of your own mind.

The astronomer may speak to you of his understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding.

The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm nor the voice that echoes it.

And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you thither.

For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.

And even as each one of you stands alone in God's knowledge, so must each one of you be alone in his knowledge of God and in his understanding of the earth.

From: THE PROPHET

P. S. - in this day and age I would replace "man" with "person" and "he" with "they" and so on...

[modwiz]

You have to give 9eagle points for using her own hard fought for wisdom in her posts. There is merit in the words of writers and poets. Great merit, but it belongs to the creator of those ideas. We have a lot of posters who quote great wisdom. 9eagle pulls it fresh out of her own heart and guts. She does not seek to ride the coat tails of other creators. She is her own creator. She gets what it is to be a co-creator in this world and is always brings it raw from the ground of her being. There are very few who can even come close to that. Her 'stick' is a creation/projection of those who perceive it only. Cold water is not a stick and it will not bruise. It will piss you off completely though. It will make you hyperventilate too. A lot of that is in evidence.:faint2:

[Belle]

Perhaps the title of this thread should be "split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of 9eagle9's conduct on that thread".

I spend a lot of time on here just reading and observing...especially the interactions between people. I've learned a few things along the way...such as how to poke and provoke others with lots of nice nice words and perhaps a few smilies...or how to use someone's triggers against them and cry poor me or victim...or how to compliment someone while stabbing them in the back...or how to derail a thread's subject by attacking a poster, but oh so kindly and with lots of caring and love. So many manipulations to choose from...so many games to play.

Some of PA's brightest stars have been given vacations or outright banned as a result of the "meek" setting them up for a fall. The last thread by Songs comes to mind....she had something valuable to share, but she never got a chance to finish because of the outright attacks on her. I think of Lord Sid, who made us think outside of the box and laugh. And, of course, 9eage9 who brought truth and clarity to what it really means to be responsible and manage ourselves.

What did they all have in common? They were unique and not everyone's cup of tea. Sometimes abrasive...sometimes going a bit too far to prove a point. But filled with knowledge and wisdom they were willing to freely share with anyone willing to listen...and to discuss with those sincerely questioning.

A wealth of knowledge and wisdom gone, for what?.... to maintain mediocracy because of some who felt 'threatened' by their style? to maintain a false front of politeness, civility? Maybe it's just me, but I'll take straight-forward honesty and integrity anyday...no matter how it's dished out...over the manipulation and game playing.

I don't often speak my mind in this way, but each time a person of strength and conviction leaves, PA loses it's vibrancy and becomes more and more a shadow of itself. Sad. One could think this is the plan to bring PA down...not with a stick, but rather with a whimper.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Well said, but to add ...

Just because you understand someone doesn't mean you are giving them a free ticket to treat you like crap. One does not mean the other is acceptable. But I do agree that few understand her.

My 2 cents.

I give her a free ticket to point out my crap to me any day. It is the equivalent of pointing out a misstep that will cause you pain and further suffering. Of course, she will be challenged doing so. I have had some point out what they think is my crap to me. It was their crap that they stuck on me.

I have softened my battle stance. I like it here on the forum.

Want change on that two cents? :p

Haha I so understand what you are saying, but (being the devil's advocate I love to play) ... :p One can point out my crap in a myriad of ways -- this to me is the variable in question. Where is the line between someone pointing out your crap to you and sticking crap on you then pointing it out? This is why that variable is important .. especially to those who don't understand her.

My 2.5 cents after receiving change from Modwiz on the last two ;)

Another two cents... and the question that begs to be answered, did I ask you to point out my crap?

If I didn't then quite frankly I would ask you to leave my space alone.... maybe I am not ready for your crap pointing outness or maybe I have just endured a crushing emotional blow, or maybe I have spent the night fighting off some ET implanter, or maybe I am just plain not in the mood to have someone pointing out my crap... and maybe that someone pointing out my crap doesn't understand me at all. And maybe I think your crap pointing is full of crap.

And maybe I just am not that good at expressing myself in writing and what I say looks like crap but it really isn't.

Oh s**t this is too much crap. Oh dear this is really not like me, care to comment?

I think maybe that was about half a penny.

That was about ten bucks worth, dont sell yourself cheap on this one.

[modwiz]

Perhaps the title of this thread should be "split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of 9eagle9's conduct on that thread".

I spend a lot of time on here just reading and observing...especially the interactions between people. I've learned a few things along the way...such as how to poke and provoke others with lots of nice nice words and perhaps a few smilies...or how to use someone's triggers against them and cry poor me or victim...or how to compliment someone while stabbing them in the back...or how to derail a thread's subject by attacking a poster, but oh so kindly and with lots of caring and love. So many manipulations to choose from...so many games to play.

Some of PA's brightest stars have been given vacations or outright banned as a result of the "meek" setting them up for a fall. The last thread by Songs comes to mind....she had something valuable to share, but she never got a chance to finish because of the outright attacks on her. I think of Lord Sid, who made us think outside of the box and laugh. And, of course, 9eage9 who brought truth and clarity to what it really means to be responsible and manage ourselves.

What did they all have in common? They were unique and not everyone's cup of tea. Sometimes abrasive...sometimes going a bit too far to prove a point. But filled with knowledge and wisdom they were willing to freely share with anyone willing to listen...and to discuss with those sincerely questioning.

A wealth of knowledge and wisdom gone, for what?.... to maintain mediocracy because of some who felt 'threatened' by their style? to maintain a false front of politeness, civility? Maybe it's just me, but I'll take straight-forward honesty and integrity anyday...no matter how it's dished out...over the manipulation and game playing.

I don't often speak my mind in this way, but each time a person of strength and conviction leaves, PA loses it's vibrancy and becomes more and more a shadow of itself. Sad. One could think this is the plan to bring PA down...not with a stick, but rather with a whimper.

Demographics, dear Belle. There are those who explore the depths of their being and their place in the cosmos and come back with tales of those explorations. There are those who seek to do the former and enjoy writing as if they have or will. There are those who are still exploring the contents of their diapers. Two out of three ain't bad.

Yes, I quoted Jim Steinman, songwriter for Meatloaf. Purely for comic relief. I do not feel profound quoting him.

This is Bill's house and we are all his guests. He is rightly invested in offering safe haven for all. His task is not an easy one.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Perhaps the title of this thread should be "split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of 9eagle9's conduct on that thread".

I spend a lot of time on here just reading and observing...especially the interactions between people. I've learned a few things along the way...such as how to poke and provoke others with lots of nice nice words and perhaps a few smilies...or how to use someone's triggers against them and cry poor me or victim...or how to compliment someone while stabbing them in the back...or how to derail a thread's subject by attacking a poster, but oh so kindly and with lots of caring and love. So many manipulations to choose from...so many games to play.

Some of PA's brightest stars have been given vacations or outright banned as a result of the "meek" setting them up for a fall. The last thread by Songs comes to mind....she had something valuable to share, but she never got a chance to finish because of the outright attacks on her. I think of Lord Sid, who made us think outside of the box and laugh. And, of course, 9eage9 who brought truth and clarity to what it really means to be responsible and manage ourselves.

What did they all have in common? They were unique and not everyone's cup of tea. Sometimes abrasive...sometimes going a bit too far to prove a point. But filled with knowledge and wisdom they were willing to freely share with anyone willing to listen...and to discuss with those sincerely questioning.

A wealth of knowledge and wisdom gone, for what?.... to maintain mediocracy because of some who felt 'threatened' by their style? to maintain a false front of politeness, civility? Maybe it's just me, but I'll take straight-forward honesty and integrity anyday...no matter how it's dished out...over the manipulation and game playing.

I don't often speak my mind in this way, but each time a person of strength and conviction leaves, PA loses it's vibrancy and becomes more and more a shadow of itself. Sad. One could think this is the plan to bring PA down...not with a stick, but rather with a whimper.

Bill is just asking her to temper her style, or accept Mod corrections to handle it, which would drive her nuts...

I miss everyone who left, and most I stepped in front of for a target, still ended up leaving, but the door is always open...

look at all the familiar faces that have reappeared lately...

Avalon and Camelot aren't going anywhere unless Bill or Kerry gave up...


which we know, isn't going to happen...

[Daughter of Time]

You have to give 9eagle points for using her own hard fought for wisdom in her posts. There is merit in the words of writers and poets. Great merit, but it belongs to the creator of those ideas. We have a lot of posters who quote great wisdom. 9eagle pulls it fresh out of her own heart and guts. She does not seek to ride the coat tails of other creators. She is her own creator. She gets what it is to be a co-creator in this world and is always brings it raw from the ground of her being. There are very few who can even come close to that. Her 'stick' is a creation/projection of those who perceive it only. Cold water is not a stick and it will not bruise. It will piss you off completely though.

Everyone here knows you are a great admirer of 9eagle9, and who can blame you? There is no question that she posseses wisdom, knowledge, guts, insight - she is truly a master-in-the-making. From what I've read of her posts, she has been through a lot and has learned from the harsh lessons. Kudos to her for that! She has gained my respect. She is a truly remarkable woman! I'm always interested in what she has to say and I have always tried to understand where she comes from. And even though it took a couple of interactions, I understood.

But to become a great master one needs a little more than those qualities. One also needs a small dose of compassion and humility, which she rarely shows. I'm not saying this in criticism, but in observation. And since she is walking the path of knowledge and wishes to serve humanity in freeing themselves from their burdens, developing more compassion and humility cannot but help her in her quest.

So, I'm not at all disagreeing with you Modwiz. I can take her cold water - some are not ready for it. Some need to be caressed before they're shocked. This is not necessarily weakness, it's vulnerability; just as kindness is not weakness, it is care.

I just hope that this will be a time of contemplation for her so that she may become greater than she already is.

[Belle]

Demographics, dear Belle. There are those who explore the depths of their being and their place in the cosmos and come back with tales of those explorations. There are those who seek to do the former and enjoy writing as if they have or will. There are those who are still exploring the contents of their diapers. Two out of three ain't bad.

Yes, I quoted Jim Steinman, songwriter for Meatloaf. Purely for comic relief. I do not feel profound quoting him.

This is Bill's house and we are all his guests. He is rightly invested in offering safe haven for all. His task is not an easy one.

Thanks, Mod. I'll take two out of three.

I understand his task and that of the mods is not easy. But don't ALL Bill's guests deserve safe haven...even the gregarious ones...from the young 'uns and their tricks? Safety for the "meek" at the expense of strong?

I don't change diapers, but I'll potty train if that will help.

[wynderer]

just wanted to point out that it was not 9eagle9's rudeness to me that i was addressing -- it was the fact that her 'suggestions' were not useful to me -- not because 'i'm not ready ' for her teachings, or so 'deeply into the victim mode' or 'into denial' -- just because they were not helpful

all of you who know her --is she well known in the abductee & milab community as a go-to person for help?

[modwiz]

But to become a great master one needs a little more than those qualities. One also needs a small dose of compassion and humility, which she rarely shows. I'm not saying this in criticism, but in observation. And since she is walking the path of knowledge and wishes to serve humanity in freeing themselves from their burdens, developing more compassion and humility cannot but help her in her quest.

So, I'm not at all disagreeing with you Modwiz. I can take her cold water - some are not ready for it. Some need to be caressed before they're shocked. This is not necessarily weakness, it's vulnerability; just as kindness is not weakness, it is care.

I just hope that this will be a time of contemplation for her so that she may become greater than she already is.

Humility and compassion are there for those with the eyes to see it. They are, therefore, in the eye of the beholder.

Caress or shock me. Do not caress me and then shock me. That is crazy,sociopathic, behavior. Kind of schizophrenic too.

In short. I do not find myself in agreement with the tone of your post. It promotes coddling. Bill is not promoting coddling. He is simply looking out for his guests who see what 9eagle does as attacks. As his guests, their perceptions must be taken into account. 9eagle is in a small minority and that minority cannot be given special treatment.

Besides, she can take it as well as dish it out. Vacations included.

[mountain_jim]

(post removed after further consideration) :)

(if it gets added back in via a quote in progress then so be it, but know I decided it was not a value-add to the purposes of this thread.)

[Daughter of Time]

But to become a great master one needs a little more than those qualities. One also needs a small dose of compassion and humility, which she rarely shows. I'm not saying this in criticism, but in observation. And since she is walking the path of knowledge and wishes to serve humanity in freeing themselves from their burdens, developing more compassion and humility cannot but help her in her quest.

So, I'm not at all disagreeing with you Modwiz. I can take her cold water - some are not ready for it. Some need to be caressed before they're shocked. This is not necessarily weakness, it's vulnerability; just as kindness is not weakness, it is care.

I just hope that this will be a time of contemplation for her so that she may become greater than she already is.

Humility and compassion are there for those with the eyes to see it. They are, therefore, in the eye of the beholder.

Caress or shock me. Do not caress me and then shock me. That is crazy,sociopathic, behavior. Kind of schizophrenic too.

In short. I do not find myself in agreement with the tone of your post. It promotes coddling. Bill is not promoting coddling. He is simply looking out for his guests who see what 9eagle does as attacks. As his guests, their perceptions must be taken into account. 9eagle is in a small minority and that minority cannot be given special treatment.

Besides, she can take it as well as dish it out. Vacations included.

My post was not meant to "coddle". This is the way I express myself which I see is highly irritating to you.

If you find me crazy, sociopathic and schizophrenic, then that is your privilege.

It seems that you read only the things you find offensive and that the ones that are supportive. This is exactly what many people do with 9eagle9. They read only the things that upset them, and not the things that are meant to be helpful.

I will not war with you, not with anyone for that matter. I rest my case.

Peace!

[another bob]

Regardless of the various opinions being expressed about the person in question, the fact that a thread has been offered in which members can openly express their feelings about a moderator's actions is quite rare and unusual in these kinds of forums. On other forums in which I've participated, questioning mod actions publicly was not permitted under TOS. Even if there are those who might disagree with the particular action in this case, the fact that a discussion has been given space to be carried out is a good reason to be grateful for Avalon's modus operandi, imo.

:yo:

[Belle]

just wanted to point out that it was not 9eagle9's rudeness to me that i was addressing -- it was the fact that her 'suggestions' were not useful to me -- not because 'i'm not ready ' for her teachings, or so 'deeply into the victim mode' or 'into denial' -- just because they were not helpful

all of you who know her --is she well known in the abductee & milab community as a go-to person for help?

Thank you for this post, wynderer.

When I read the posts in the Horus-Ra thread that you subsequently 'erased' so to speak, it was not clear to me that your only complaint was that her suggestions were not helpful or useful to you. I must have misunderstood.

Thank you for the clarification.

[wynderer]

also i'd like to make it clear that i did not complain to Bill, the admins, or the mods about her -- tho i was getting worried -- she seemed to be going into a tailspin

PS -- drat -- i said i wasn't going to post about this, but i did



just wanted to point out that it was not 9eagle9's rudeness to me that i was addressing -- it was the fact that her 'suggestions' were not useful to me -- not because 'i'm not ready ' for her teachings, or so 'deeply into the victim mode' or 'into denial' -- just because they were not helpful

all of you who know her --is she well known in the abductee & milab community as a go-to person for help?

Thank you for this post, wynderer.

When I read the posts in the Horus-Ra thread that you subsequently 'erased' so to speak, it was not clear to me that your only complaint was that her suggestions were not helpful or useful to you. I must have misunderstood.

Thank you for the clarification.

[doodah]

I like 9eagle9 on the whole and think she really knows her stuff. Modwiz expresses it more eloquently than I can, but I see that she is solidly grounded in her tradition and knows whereof she speaks. On much of the metaphysics, I have no disagreement at all, even some of the victim discussions, aside from how any of that applies to children.

[CAVEAT: THERE MAY BE SITUATIONS WHERE THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH DOES NOT APPLY] It's been said that a really good victim is an extremely powerful metaphysician. They have completely created a condition of truly believable victimhood. [SEE CAVEAT] What else might they create if they understood that they really can create something different? [SEE CAVEAT] I'm recalling a story about St. Germaine, where he was imprisoned for 1000 years until he realized he didn't have to be imprisoned. Without comment about the number of years involved, that's a VERY high level of accomplishment. Most of us don't even get close to that.

I'm not saying it's easy to get out of more "normal" victimhood. In fact, it's very difficult because of how we're put together psychologically, how tightly we create self-identity. Experience, memory, belief, and projection underlies everything, both positive and negative. Particularly memory, EMOTIONAL memory, which attaches the past and binds it to the present and future. A complete revamping of belief systems is necessary to get out of "normal" victimhood, and a true releasing of the past ... not an easy thing to do, but it can be done with lots of hard work.

As to 9e's expression, maybe it's Tourettes or something. Maybe it's uncontrolled anger or frustration with (what she thinks of as) stupid people. Perhaps there are some unintegrated issues within herself that need a little work. No one is ever "done" except maybe Ascended Masters.

In any case, if this were a physical community, a resolution would need to be reached because too much conflict would always be around her. She has a lot of hands-on skills that would be very valuable in a physical community, if she could work in such an environment.

In a physical community, I'd suggest that she have some space of her own and take students for teaching after all the daily work is done. She could do that here, in a thread of her own I suppose, if that were considered an appropriate use of the Forum.

[wynderer]

Doodah -- this is the crux of the whole thing between 9eagle9 & me -- she was insisting that shamanic/metaphysical techniques -- of which i am not ignorant -- would stop abductions -- & i know they can't

i always prefer to hear advice/suggestions from those who have walked a path like mine -- i.e., i'll listen hard to the first abductee or milab i meet who can tell me in detail how they stopped abductions

hate blowing my own horn, but in my life -- i am 'white' -- i have had 4 different Medicine Men or Women honor me -- none of them called me a wimp/victim -- more likely they saw the fighter

[Hervé]

A little known philosopher, but widely manufactured as infamous, compared humanity and each and every of its constitutive individuals as a wounded buffalo stuck in a mud pit. Attempting to pull it out by going in there bare-handed and it will gore you. The only safe way to pull it out would be if one is provided with an amphibious armored vehicle if one is still inclined to do so after a few goring experiences...

It seems that this would apply to all parties...

To illustrate the above metaphor, I already offered the following example many times and consider it still worth repeating:



To give some reality on how a programmed individual keeps on going with the program whether the latter is performed on one out-of-body as in "The Programming of A Planet (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?39288-Bill-Ryan-joining-Kerry-David-W.-with-Bill-Wood&p=411418&viewfull=1#post411418)" (abductions or `in-between lives') or through an upbringing within a particular culture or tradition, here is an example of a mom who tried to talk some sense into her son who is still caught up into what has become a cult:




Sadly, the last time we saw our son, I pointed out the inconsistencies to him. He could not respond other than to repeat the cult party line.

It was amazing for me to see how he could not respond other than to state the party line. He just could not think it through.

The only other time I have personally witnessed what I saw in my son was a time years ago when a friend of mine was hypnotized by her brother in front of me and her boyfriend. Her brother asked me what I would like him to have her do after he woke her up. I wanted to see if she would repeat something that she would considered silly under normal circumstances. I said, have her get up and flush the toilet every time you tug at your collar.

So he gave her the command, then woke her up. He tugged his collar, she got up, went into the bathroom and flushed the toilet, came back and sat down. He tugged his collar again, and she did it again. And again. After three or four times, I finally asked her why she kept getting up to flush the toilet.

First, she just said it needed flushing. She did it again. And again, I asked her why she kept flushing the toilet. Each time I asked her, she would make up some lame reason as to why she had to flush the toilet.

She got more and more annoyed at me for asking, but she did it again and again upon command and could never see that there was anything strange about it.

Her brother hypnotized her once more to release her of the command, but what an amazing thing to have witnessed.

This is what I saw in my son. He could not answer a simple question, but only parrot the party line.


Emphasis , mine, to underline what happens with an awake individual's "friends" who are just unable to perceive there's something not quite right in their thinking or behaviour and slip into the "wounded buffalo" mode when pointed out to them... that's the knee-jerk reaction to "I/we am/are here to save you!" from the unconscious "mind" the "predators" handed down to us in Castaneda's words.

So... how to un-hypnotize skull-dwelling zombies who are either under the spell of post-hypnotic orders and behaviours, or an equivalent, when they are not only unaware of it but would fight anyone attempting to demonstrate it to them... tough catch-22 job!


The answer would be to take adequate steps or gradients with offering points of comparisons to loosen the jarred doors or windows... like with chemtrails showing skies in the 50's and 60's compared to now and go through the "It's all photoshopped" whole 9 yards, etc... (see this video for an alternate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMWVUoYNezU).

The trouble is, this forum ain't a clinic and hasn't that many gradient steps to offer. So, when its owner and his mod and admin teams get tired of pulling their guts off the floor and back in their right place; the "To hell with it!" is not very far away.

In this case, Bill offered extra gradient steps and, with that, fine tuned the aims of this forum and the Horus Ra thread as well as the expected conduct.

That is what's at hand and that is what one needs to start with: what's at hand.

[wynderer]

that wounded buffalo in a mud pit image -- rather degrading -- did the little known philosopher have a lot of Reptilian DNA, or what?

edit to ask for clarity -- are you comparing abductees to programmed cult members? -- not clear to me


A little known philosopher, but widely manufactured as infamous, compared humanity and each and every of its constitutive individuals as a wounded buffalo stuck in a mud pit. Attempting to pull it out by going in there bare-handed and it will gore you. The only safe way to pull it out would be if one is provided with an amphibious armored vehicle if one is still inclined to do so after a few goring experiences...

It seems that this would apply to all parties...

To illustrate the above metaphor, I already offered the following example many times and consider it still worth repeating:



To give some reality on how a programmed individual keeps on going with the program whether the latter is performed on one out-of-body as in "The Programming of A Planet (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?39288-Bill-Ryan-joining-Kerry-David-W.-with-Bill-Wood&p=411418&viewfull=1#post411418)" (abductions or `in-between lives') or through an upbringing within a particular culture or tradition, here is an example of a mom who tried to talk some sense into her son who is still caught up into what has become a cult:




Sadly, the last time we saw our son, I pointed out the inconsistencies to him. He could not respond other than to repeat the cult party line.

It was amazing for me to see how he could not respond other than to state the party line. He just could not think it through.

The only other time I have personally witnessed what I saw in my son was a time years ago when a friend of mine was hypnotized by her brother in front of me and her boyfriend. Her brother asked me what I would like him to have her do after he woke her up. I wanted to see if she would repeat something that she would considered silly under normal circumstances. I said, have her get up and flush the toilet every time you tug at your collar.

So he gave her the command, then woke her up. He tugged his collar, she got up, went into the bathroom and flushed the toilet, came back and sat down. He tugged his collar again, and she did it again. And again. After three or four times, I finally asked her why she kept getting up to flush the toilet.

First, she just said it needed flushing. She did it again. And again, I asked her why she kept flushing the toilet. Each time I asked her, she would make up some lame reason as to why she had to flush the toilet.

She got more and more annoyed at me for asking, but she did it again and again upon command and could never see that there was anything strange about it.

Her brother hypnotized her once more to release her of the command, but what an amazing thing to have witnessed.

This is what I saw in my son. He could not answer a simple question, but only parrot the party line.


Emphasis , mine, to underline what happens with an awake individual's "friends" who are just unable to perceive there's something not quite right in their thinking or behaviour and slip into the "wounded buffalo" mode when pointed out to them... that's the knee-jerk reaction to "I/we am/are here to save you!" from the unconscious "mind" the "predators" handed down to us in Castaneda's words.

So... how to un-hypnotize skull-dwelling zombies who are either under the spell of post-hypnotic orders and behaviours, or an equivalent, when they are not only unaware of it but would fight anyone attempting to demonstrate it to them... tough catch-22 job!


The answer would be to take adequate steps or gradients with offering points of comparisons to loosen the jarred doors or windows... like with chemtrails showing skies in the 50's and 60's compared to now and go through the "It's all photoshopped" whole 9 yards, etc... (see this video for an alternate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMWVUoYNezU).

The trouble is, this forum ain't a clinic and hasn't that many gradient steps to offer. So, when its owner and his mod and admin teams get tired of pulling their guts off the floor and back in their right place; the "To hell with it!" is not very far away.

In this case, Bill offered extra gradient steps and, with that, fine tuned the aims of this forum and the Horus Ra thread as well as the expected conduct.

That is what's at hand and that is what's one need to start with: what's at hand.

[another bob]

Doodah -- this is the crux of the whole thing between 9eagle9 & me -- she was insisting that shamanic/metaphysical techniques -- of which i am not ignorant -- would stop abductions -- & i know they can't

i always prefer to hear advice/suggestions from those who have walked a path like mine -- i.e., i'll listen hard to the first abductee or milab i meet who can tell me in detail how they stopped abductions

hate blowing my own horn, but in my life -- i am 'white' -- i have had 4 different Medicine Men or Women honor me -- none of them called me a wimp/victim -- more likely they saw the fighter


It took me a long time, and some hard knocks, before I came to realize that my own experience (and the lessons thereof) did not necessarily apply to others. This sounds like it would be obvious, but it was quite a revelation to me, and I see that the misconception I was under is a common one among humans. For example, someone has a positive ET encounter, and so they come to believe that all such encounters are of that nature, and vice versa. That's a simplistic example, of course, but serves to illustrate the principle. Once we come to recognize that the world we have been conditioned and programed to perceive as an objective, solid reality is in fact utterly subjective -- a projection of mind -- then we can begin to be more tolerant and accepting of others' experiences and insights that might appear to contradict our own, based on our own interpretations on perception. We may find equal parts agreement and disagreement, or reactions to our reports may be tilted in one direction -- that doesn't really matter. What matters is that we remain open, and recognize that even the highest human wisdom is no more than a thin strand of hair blown about in the vast unknown.

[doodah]

Doodah -- this is the crux of the whole thing between 9eagle9 & me -- she was insisting that shamanic/metaphysical techniques -- of which i am not ignorant -- would stop abductions -- & i know they can't

i always prefer to hear advice/suggestions from those who have walked a path like mine -- i.e., i'll listen hard to the first abductee or milab i meet who can tell me in detail how they stopped abductions

hate blowing my own horn, but in my life -- i am 'white' -- i have had 4 different Medicine Men or Women honor me -- none of them called me a wimp/victim -- more likely they saw the fighter

Wynderer, I leave open the possibility that what you say about your situation is true.

And yet, and yet... Let's go deep here. The Greys are apparently extremely adept at manipulating us. Basically they can take control of OUR ability to experience our own illusion.

We don't acknowledge that that's what we're doing here, creating all this that we call physical reality, down to the quark and string level, and then experiencing it. But that is what the great teachers say we're doing, nonetheless: This world is Maya, Illusion -- literally.

The Greys can cause us to believe whatever illusion they wish us to see or experience and we see and experience it as "real" solid reality. In our own myths, the Daoine Sidhe, the Elves, also have that ability, to take charge of our sensory systems so that we see, hear, feel, taste, smell, whatever they wish us to, and we believe it is all "real."

Let's say that all of the above is true, that WE really are creating what we call this physical world, and that the Greys and Elves have learned how to consciously manipulate whatever we are also manipulating (but we don't know we're doing this) - PLUS - they can somehow take charge of and redirect our sensory mechanisms so that we believe in their creation rather than our own.

If that is true, then it is ALL illusion and you should be able to take back control of your own illusion and 9e is right. But that is an extremely DEEP level of knowledge or an extremely fine level of awareness, which I personally do not claim beyond some limited actual magical manifestation. I am more like most people, that it is all very mysterious and I do not claim mastery. (Or, that is to say, I, like everyone else, HAVE mastery, but I do not have conscious awareness of having it.)

This is really off topic! But fun! Sorry everyone.

[nomadguy]

insisting that shamanic/metaphysical techniques -- of which i am not ignorant -- would stop abductions -- & i know they can't

It is my view that shamanic/metaphysical techniques may actually invite encounters like abductions not deter them. And that certain toxins or drugs can open gateways of our mind or perhaps our frequency and that this can make us more vulnerable to encounters of this sort.

... I have no opinion on the matter of 9eagle9 and the conduct on the Horus-Ra thread. However I will add that I stopped logging into this forum for around a month or two because of that very thread. I was purely shocked to see what content had arisen there.
I actually got very very angry about it and sort of lashed out with a string of comments here and there. Finally I stopped myself and decided not to come back until I had a better attitude about it. Some of the issues expressed here tend to bring up intense sentiment in some people, myself included.

Carry on ~

[DeDukshyn]

Doodah -- this is the crux of the whole thing between 9eagle9 & me -- she was insisting that shamanic/metaphysical techniques -- of which i am not ignorant -- would stop abductions -- & i know they can't

i always prefer to hear advice/suggestions from those who have walked a path like mine -- i.e., i'll listen hard to the first abductee or milab i meet who can tell me in detail how they stopped abductions

hate blowing my own horn, but in my life -- i am 'white' -- i have had 4 different Medicine Men or Women honor me -- none of them called me a wimp/victim -- more likely they saw the fighter

Wynderer, I leave open the possibility that what you say about your situation is true.

And yet, and yet... Let's go deep here. The Greys are apparently extremely adept at manipulating us. Basically they can take control of OUR ability to experience our own illusion.

We don't acknowledge that that's what we're doing here, creating all this that we call physical reality, down to the quark and string level, and then experiencing it. But that is what the great teachers say we're doing, nonetheless: This world is Maya, Illusion -- literally.

The Greys can cause us to believe whatever illusion they wish us to see or experience and we see and experience it as "real" solid reality. In our own myths, the Daoine Sidhe, the Elves, also have that ability, to take charge of our sensory systems so that we see, hear, feel, taste, smell, whatever they wish us to, and we believe it is all "real."

Let's say that all of the above is true, that WE really are creating what we call this physical world, and that the Greys and Elves have learned how to consciously manipulate whatever we are also manipulating (but we don't know we're doing this) - PLUS - they can somehow take charge of and redirect our sensory mechanisms so that we believe in their creation rather than our own.

If that is true, then it is ALL illusion and you should be able to take back control of your own illusion and 9e is right. But that is an extremely DEEP level of knowledge or an extremely fine level of awareness, which I personally do not claim beyond some limited actual magical manifestation. I am more like most people, that it is all very mysterious and I do not claim mastery. (Or, that is to say, I, like everyone else, HAVE mastery, but I do not have conscious awareness of having it.)

This is really off topic! But fun! Sorry everyone.

I'll chime in again even though this is still a bit off topic ....

Consider that the only reason why "they" are interested in us humans is because we create a reality, that they cannot. I have come to believe all what we would call "dark forces" are only motivated to control us because we (in a sense - long story not worth deciphering now but those who know, know), control "reality" (which is of course just an illusion anyway -- but I digress).

The "dark ones" or whatever label we want, are interested in the same thing our super elite is (coincidence?) - to control the masses to contral a certain reality -- although the big players want to control more than earth -- they want to prevent the change that is humanities birthright, as that effect would ripple accross the the multiverse. Why would this happen? - because we have the potential to be directly connected to source -- they do not have that capability -- and that is how this universe can change via humans -- because Source itself has the potential to be expressed directly through us and into this realm without having to traverse all the other layers of consciousness.

I wish I had more time to explain the bigger picture here, but I'm already off topic so just give this a ponder. My 2 cents ;)

[wynderer]

have you read thru Houman's Horus-Ra thread yet?




Doodah -- this is the crux of the whole thing between 9eagle9 & me -- she was insisting that shamanic/metaphysical techniques -- of which i am not ignorant -- would stop abductions -- & i know they can't

i always prefer to hear advice/suggestions from those who have walked a path like mine -- i.e., i'll listen hard to the first abductee or milab i meet who can tell me in detail how they stopped abductions

hate blowing my own horn, but in my life -- i am 'white' -- i have had 4 different Medicine Men or Women honor me -- none of them called me a wimp/victim -- more likely they saw the fighter

Wynderer, I leave open the possibility that what you say about your situation is true.

And yet, and yet... Let's go deep here. The Greys are apparently extremely adept at manipulating us. Basically they can take control of OUR ability to experience our own illusion.

We don't acknowledge that that's what we're doing here, creating all this that we call physical reality, down to the quark and string level, and then experiencing it. But that is what the great teachers say we're doing, nonetheless: This world is Maya, Illusion -- literally.

The Greys can cause us to believe whatever illusion they wish us to see or experience and we see and experience it as "real" solid reality. In our own myths, the Daoine Sidhe, the Elves, also have that ability, to take charge of our sensory systems so that we see, hear, feel, taste, smell, whatever they wish us to, and we believe it is all "real."

Let's say that all of the above is true, that WE really are creating what we call this physical world, and that the Greys and Elves have learned how to consciously manipulate whatever we are also manipulating (but we don't know we're doing this) - PLUS - they can somehow take charge of and redirect our sensory mechanisms so that we believe in their creation rather than our own.

If that is true, then it is ALL illusion and you should be able to take back control of your own illusion and 9e is right. But that is an extremely DEEP level of knowledge or an extremely fine level of awareness, which I personally do not claim beyond some limited actual magical manifestation. I am more like most people, that it is all very mysterious and I do not claim mastery. (Or, that is to say, I, like everyone else, HAVE mastery, but I do not have conscious awareness of having it.)

This is really off topic! But fun! Sorry everyone.

I'll chime in again even though this is still a bit off topic ....

Consider that the only reason why "they" are interested in us humans is because we create a reality, that they cannot. I have come to believe all what we would call "dark forces" are only motivated to control us because we (in a sense - long story not worth deciphering now but those who know, know), control "reality" (which is of course just an illusion anyway -- but I digress).

The "dark ones" or whatever label we want, are interested in the same thing our super elite is (coincidence?) - to control the masses to contral a certain reality -- although the big players want to control more than earth -- they want to prevent the change that is humanities birthright, as that effect would ripple accross the the multiverse. Why would this happen? - because we have the potential to be directly connected to source -- they do not have that capability -- and that is how this universe can change via humans -- because Source itself has the potential to be expressed directly through us and into this realm without having to traverse all the other layers of consciousness.

I wish I had more time to explain the bigger picture here, but I'm already off topic so just give this a ponder. My 2 cents ;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

the choice of abductees & milabs is determined based on bloodlines &/or gifts -- our USA military is heavily involved also

altho i think there are mass abductions going on by the Greys right now-- whole neighborhoods/towns -- people lined up like zombies, in & out of the ships for the mind-control upgrades while their bodies are sleeping-- the 'sheeple' abductees, from the controllers' p.o.v.



insisting that shamanic/metaphysical techniques -- of which i am not ignorant -- would stop abductions -- & i know they can't

It is my view that shamanic/metaphysical techniques may actually invite encounters like abductions not deter them. And that certain toxins or drugs can open gateways of our mind or perhaps our frequency and that this can make us more vulnerable to encounters of this sort.

... I have no opinion on the matter of 9eagle9 and the conduct on the Horus-Ra thread. However I will add that I stopped logging into this forum for around a month or two because of that very thread. I was purely shocked to see what content had arisen there.
I actually got very very angry about it and sort of lashed out with a string of comments here and there. Finally I stopped myself and decided not to come back until I had a better attitude about it. Some of the issues expressed here tend to bring up intense sentiment in some people, myself included.

Carry on ~

[doodah]

Re DeDukshyn, post #133:

Know ye not that ye are gods?

[modwiz]

I eat alone so that I can think. I eat in a dining hall that often has hundreds of people, many of them my friends, but I eat alone and my friends know that. I do so that I may think and reconsider my day and actions. Sometimes even my conduct of a few days past will enter in to those ruminations. I have found some conduct of mine in the Horus Ra thread to be inappropriate. I indulged in some playful humor with 9eagle and perhaps a few others. Though my intent was not mean spirited, it was wrong headed and disrespectful in the extreme, IMO.

No matter how rough I believe things should be allowed to get, there should be safe places. Places where the rules are different and a 'time out' of sorts can be and is observed. I was not mindful of the sanctuary of the Horus Ra thread and what I intended to be humor ultimately became buffoonery, because much of reality is situational.

Just last night during a skype conversation with 9eagle, I told her that her comments to Wyn, while completely valid, were poorly placed in the Horus Ra thread. A side thread, like this, would have been appropriate, but not that thread. At that time I had forgotten my own oafish behavior. During my dinner it presented itself to me for reconsideration and now must be addressed. For my own self respect and those to who I may have offended.

I would like to apologize to any who read my posts in that thread and found them inappropriate, out of place or enraging. I can forgive myself, and will, but the sting of embarrassment as well as knowing I disrespected a safe place for others is still in process for me. This public apology will certainly help me. :sorry:

I hope it will also help any that were offended by my behavior.

I cannot agree more with Bill about the importance of that thread. I know there is another, or two, of equal importance. I will keep my wits about me and look to play or opine where it will not be a clear violation of that cyber-space.

:sorry::sorry:

[SilentFeathers]

RE: 9eagle9

Perhaps this guy should of been hired first by the Avalon team before booting her......

QGeVTnAjT04

[DeDukshyn]

I eat alone so that I can think. I eat in a dining hall that often has hundreds of people, many of them my friends, but I eat alone and my friends know that. I do so that I may think a reconsider my day and actions. Sometimes even my conduct of a few days past will enter in to those ruminations. I have found some conduct of mine in the Horus Ra thread to be inappropriate. I indulged in some playful humor with 9eagle and perhaps a few others. Though my intent was not mean spirited, it was wrong headed and disrespectful in the extreme, IMO.

No matter how rough I believe things should be allowed to get, there should be safe places. Places where the rules are different and a 'time out' of sorts can be and is observed. I was not mindful of the sanctuary of the Horus Ra thread and what I intended to be humor ultimately became buffoonery, because much of reality is situational.

Just last night during a skype conversation with 9eagle, I told her that her her comments to Wyn, while completely valid, were poorly placed in the Horus Ra thread. A side thread, like this, would have been appropriate, but not that thread. At that time I had forgotten my own oafish behavior. During my dinner it presented itself to me for reconsideration and now must be addressed. For my own self respect and those to who I may have offended.

I would like to apologize to any who read my posts in that thread and found them inappropriate, out of place or enraging. I can forgive myself, and will, but the sting of embarrassment as well as knowing I disrespected a safe place for other is still in process for me. This public apology will certainly help me.

I hope it will also help any that were offended by my behavior.

I cannot agree more with Bill about the importance of that thread. I know there is another, or two, of equal importance. I will keep my wits about me and look to play or opine where it will not be a clear violation of that cyber-space.

:sorry::sorry:

For some reason modwiz, I just couldn't be offended by you even if you tried. But, I have read enough of your posts to know where you are always coming from. I think that this is an important part of the conduct on the forum in general -- If one is lecturing - know your audience, if one is reading / contemplating, try to see where the speaker / lecturer is coming from before even forming a thought. If I had done this consistently, I never would have even been caught up in one of 9eagles games in the first place (because I should have been "smarter" than that). My lesson learned. ;)

[DeDukshyn]

have you read thru Houman's Horus-Ra thread yet?


I couldn't get past a few pages when I tried. I think I know where you are going with this, and my response would be a bit like stick in the head no matter how elequantly I try to put it, so here's me keeping myself moderated. Don't mistake this for dislike or judgement - I appreciate many of your posts. ;)

[Bill Ryan]

Just last night during a skype conversation with 9eagle, I told her that her her comments to Wyn, while completely valid, were poorly placed in the Horus Ra thread. A side thread, like this, would have been appropriate, but not that thread. At that time I had forgotten my own oafish behavior. During my dinner it presented itself to me for reconsideration and now must be addressed. For my own self respect and those to who I may have offended.

I would like to apologize to any who read my posts in that thread and found them inappropriate, out of place or enraging. I can forgive myself, and will, but the sting of embarrassment as well as knowing I disrespected a safe place for other is still in process for me. This public apology will certainly help me.



Thank you for this post, modwiz -- it was very much appreciated.



Separately:

Avalon -- like any community, the entire human race included -- is like a body. It has cells, which live and die, and the physical material recycles and replaces itself continuously.

It's the DNA (or the morphic field, pick your paradigm :) ) that holds the shape and function in place. That is like the mission statement of the forum.

If anyone's not noticed (not meant with sarcasm! You may not have done...) we have a recent influx of very high quality new members. I saluted Angel Hero a couple of weeks ago, who is just 15, but a few days ago her record has been surpassed by a 14-year old whose application confounded us with its maturity and articulacy.

The forum is in good shape. And a number of people who left for their own reasons have asked to return. (Unless they really upset everyone on the way out, they will always be welcome back in.)

I reiterate what I have said, in different forms, many times before. Those with strong, intelligent opinions, born of experience and contemplation, will always be welcomed and appreciated. Grandstanders, egoists, a**holes and bullies will not.

This is not a comment about any individual. It's a statement of the principles upon which I stand, and as I said a little earlier on this thread, they are not negotiable.

[DeDukshyn]

Like Bill, I also appreciate the many bright new minds here! We seem to have our rough spots but there is a general trend of Avalon growing in just the right direction ... not too much of this ... just the right amount of that -- ocassionaly the balance tips, but it naturally seems to correct itself ;)

Welcome all the great new members!

BTW Bill -- I noticed your forced manual swear filter for that word ;) ;) ;)

Edit: I just have to add -- the recent changes to the aesthetics of Avalon are awesome! Thanks Paul and Ilie or just Ilie -- whoever was responsible for the recent facelift!

[Christine]

In a physical community, I'd suggest that she have some space of her own and take students for teaching after all the daily work is done. She could do that here, in a thread of her own I suppose, if that were considered an appropriate use of the Forum.

You know Doodah, I was thinking the same thing. No one doubts 9e9's value, authenticity or experience. The only problem I have encountered and moderated on is when she practices her medicine on those who do not ask for it. I don't think these people are all meek, victims, stupid or less evolved beings as has been insinuated in various posts, some are just not wanting to play that game with her.

We are tossing around some ideas on how to provide the needed space for safety and freedom of expression. I will post your idea to the mods and see if anything develops. Of course this depends on 9eagle9 and others who would benefit from a space intense self reflection.

I think by now she knows she is more than welcome back.

[Kristin]

Modwiz,
Thank you for many things.

From the Heart,
Wormhole

[Kristin]

In a physical community, I'd suggest that she have some space of her own and take students for teaching after all the daily work is done. She could do that here, in a thread of her own I suppose, if that were considered an appropriate use of the Forum.

You know Doodah, I was thinking the same thing. No one doubts 9e9's value, authenticity or experience. The only problem I have encountered and moderated on is when she practices her medicine on those who do not ask for it. I don't think these people are all meek, victims, stupid or less evolved beings as has been insinuated in various posts, some are just not wanting to play that game with her.

We are tossing around some ideas on how to provide the needed space for safety and freedom of expression. I will post your idea to the mods and see if anything develops. Of course this depends on 9eagle9 and others who would benefit from a space intense self reflection.

I think by now she knows she is more than welcome back.

I've also had similar thoughts! Well worth talking about.
From the Heart,
Kristin

[DeDukshyn]

In a physical community, I'd suggest that she have some space of her own and take students for teaching after all the daily work is done. She could do that here, in a thread of her own I suppose, if that were considered an appropriate use of the Forum.

You know Doodah, I was thinking the same thing. No one doubts 9e9's value, authenticity or experience. The only problem I have encountered and moderated on is when she practices her medicine on those who do not ask for it. I don't think these people are all meek, victims, stupid or less evolved beings as has been insinuated in various posts, some are just not wanting to play that game with her.

We are tossing around some ideas on how to provide the needed space for safety and freedom of expression. I will post your idea to the mods and see if anything develops. Of course this depends on 9eagle9 and others who would benefit from a space intense self reflection.

I think by now she knows she is more than welcome back.

I've also had similar thoughts! Well worth talking about.
From the Heart,
Kristin

Y'know -- if she was 100% transparent as to her methods, had her own thread, she would be far less offensive, and maybe still (er ..more) effective ... just a thought, I hope she considers if she reads ... ;)

[DeDukshyn]

I took this course one time ... it was rough. It really was - 10 hour days and head beating with sticks style. It was called the Landmark Forum - some consider it a "cult" ;) lol. There were a few participants who voiced their rejection to that style. The lecturer became extremely serious at that point and and said .. "look - you just paid $XXX.XX to be here for this course - you either sit down and do the course and get what is available to receive - or go right now to the back and "Jim" will give you your money back no questions asked. But at the end of the day you came here to change yourself and paid money to do it. This method works but it's NOT easy - if you think easy is your route then get your money back, and find something that you think will work for you!" .. but no one left.

Point with this -- there is a place for this style.

But the entire process was transparent and 90% of the attendees did get a giant breakthrough in their relationships and self confidence that they were after, a few left dismayed -- the ones that could not let go of their past - it was obvious and their complaints were awkward. But in this case - everyone went into the process as willing volunteers - partners even in the process - something which 9eagls previous style lacked.

My point? Maybe a more structured environment (like a thread or even several) with the participants willing would be the optimal place for 9eagle to do her work as everyone mentioned (I'm just adding). How would this work here? I'm not sure at all, but maybe there's a way .... or maybe I'm just dreaming ... who knows ;)

[wynderer]

logging in to say i'd also had the same thought, re 9eagle9 starting her own thread -- she has a lot of knowledge/experience that could help some folks

[modwiz]

In a physical community, I'd suggest that she have some space of her own and take students for teaching after all the daily work is done. She could do that here, in a thread of her own I suppose, if that were considered an appropriate use of the Forum.

You know Doodah, I was thinking the same thing. No one doubts 9e9's value, authenticity or experience. The only problem I have encountered and moderated on is when she practices her medicine on those who do not ask for it. I don't think these people are all meek, victims, stupid or less evolved beings as has been insinuated in various posts, some are just not wanting to play that game with her.

We are tossing around some ideas on how to provide the needed space for safety and freedom of expression. I will post your idea to the mods and see if anything develops. Of course this depends on 9eagle9 and others who would benefit from a space intense self reflection.

I think by now she knows she is more than welcome back.

I've also had similar thoughts! Well worth talking about.
From the Heart,
Kristin

Y'know -- if she was 100% transparent as to her methods, had her own thread, she would be far less offensive, and maybe still (er ..more) effective ... just a thought, I hope she considers if she reads ... ;)

When I gave her posts to look at she couldn't see them. That was yesterday though.

[DeDukshyn]

... trim, trrim ...

When I gave her posts to look at she couldn't see them. That was yesterday though.

I think this thread is in an area out of bounds to the masses ... maybe there's a work around? Any way to copy whole thread pages?

[modwiz]

When I gave her posts to look at she couldn't see them. That was yesterday though.

I think this thread is in an area out of bounds to the masses ... maybe there's a work around? Any way to copy whole thread pages?

I copy and pasted what seemed relevant. Thanks for the info. I didna know that. :doh:

[ThePythonicCow]

I think this thread is in an area out of bounds to the masses ... maybe there's a work around? Any way to copy whole thread pages?
That's strange ... guests should be able to see it (indeed, half of those viewing this thread right now are guests.)

Also I attempted to view this page while not logged in to the forum, and I was able to see it fine.

There may have been a few hours shortly after 9eagle9's "vacation" started in which she could not view the forum at all ... due to some technical confusion behind the scenes. But those were cleared up within a few hours.

[Christine]

Hi all,

Paul you beat me to the post. I also logged out and could view this thread just fine.

[DeDukshyn]

I think this thread is in an area out of bounds to the masses ... maybe there's a work around? Any way to copy whole thread pages?
That's strange ... guests should be able to see it (indeed, half of those viewing this thread right now are guests.)

Also I attempted to view this page while not logged in to the forum, and I was able to see it fine.

There may have been a few hours shortly after 9eagle9's "vacation" started in which she could not view the forum at all ... due to some technical confusion behind the scenes. But those were cleared up within a few hours.

Hmmm ... thanks for clarifying that Paul -- it must be the abductees area I was getting this confused with. Perhaps Modwiz could have 9eagle try again with the links. There's much info and much love here, (at least that I can see, but then i'm generally an optimist) - it may be worth 9eagle's review.

[DeDukshyn]

I notice that many people delete their posts after some contemplation -- at times this may be valid. Despite all the ****ups I have made on this forum - I have never deleted a post .. not one. (besides I think it is against forum rules). What I do and would like to see more of - is people replying to their own post that they decided is not worthy - and give their contemplation - inner thoughts on why they thought what they said was inappropriate. This way - many can learn potentially and not just the one. Every lesson earned has the the potential to be a lesson given ... ;) My 2 cents.

Don't delete your posts unless encouraged by the mod team - else just clarify your feelings so others may see your learning example, and hopefully find that learning within themselves where it may apply; again -- 2 cents ;).

[Bill Ryan]

I took this course one time ... it was rough. It really was - 10 hour days and head beating with sticks style. It was called the Landmark Forum

I did the est training in London in 1984; est was the precursor of the Landmark Forum. It changed my entire view of the world.

At that time it was two weekends (four long days). I went on to become one of the volunteer logistics supervisors for the London Center, and my girlfriend Angi (the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room) was on the full-time est staff. She worked closely with Werner Erhard's sister. I met Werner briefly -- he was an inspired and remarkable man. It was all quite an interesting time. :)

[modwiz]

I have done the Landmark Forum. It was very enlightening. It was about 10 years ago. I got a scholarship because I am a minister.

Used to do weddings. Don't believe much in creating legal contracts like that anymore.
My signature would bind people in spirit and to the IRS.:faint::doh:

I like doing blessings. :thumb:

[DeDukshyn]

I took this course one time ... it was rough. It really was - 10 hour days and head beating with sticks style. It was called the Landmark Forum

I did the est training in London in 1984; est was the precursor of the Landmark Forum. It changed my entire view of the world.

At that time it was two weekends (four long days). I went on to become one of the volunteer logistics supervisors for the London Center, and my girlfriend Angi (the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room) was on the full-time est staff. She worked closely with Werner Erhard's sister. I met Werner briefly -- he was an inspired and remarkable man. It was all quite an interesting time. :)

For me Landmark re-iterated much of what I already knew. The awesomeness I received was in the practical application -- we were given hands-on homework to do to "experience" the words which we were taught (albeit some via NLP -- although all good), the homeowrk of having to prove to yourself that all your old "reasons" were false and just limitations was, in my opinion, invaluable. I learned a whole new way to fix problems and most importantly - I created all those problems thus "fixing" them was a breeze! And they were right - the universe gives you lessons - some people get stuck there but it's only hard if you reject them. Accepting the challenge and resolving them is Easy! -- if the previous "reason making machine" is broken.

I found it an incredibly positive course from my point of view, although I'll admit - out of the price range of most ... which is a bit sad.

My 2 cents ;)

[Bill Ryan]

I took this course one time ... it was rough. It really was - 10 hour days and head beating with sticks style. It was called the Landmark Forum

I did the est training in London in 1984; est was the precursor of the Landmark Forum. It changed my entire view of the world.

At that time it was two weekends (four long days). I went on to become one of the volunteer logistics supervisors for the London Center, and my girlfriend Angi (the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room) was on the full-time est staff. She worked closely with Werner Erhard's sister. I met Werner briefly -- he was an inspired and remarkable man. It was all quite an interesting time. :)

For me Landmark re-iterated much of what I already knew. The awesomeness I received was in the practical application

Angi did the est Communication Workshop (as did I, separately from her). That was a one-weekend program, in which quite a bit of the material that later became the centerpiece of the Landmark Forum was prototyped. It was just one weekend, but it was very powerful.

When Angi returned from the Workshop, she'd got in touch with her investment ('pay-off') in being small. She was the eldest of three sisters, but was only four foot ten and three-quarters (that's 1.49 meters).

She'd always make jokes about it -- such as that she wasn't really small, people only thought she was small.... and so on. At other times she'd stress how important the three-quarters of an inch was, or that size didn't matter.... etc etc. You get the picture. She was always very cheerful about it, but her size was part of her persona.

When she realized she had an investment in this, she grew. At the age of 26, she grew two and a half inches. I know this happened in a two-week period, and I have a strong unproven suspicion that it all happened in 24 hours. She had to throw away all her clothes and shoes.

This was medically impossible -- and yet it happened before my eyes (and the tape measure). That's the power of the mind.

[DeDukshyn]

Like cancer disappearing on a full-on personality change -- it has happened many times and has been documented ;) -- the definitive evidence of physicality being linked directly to consciousness. ;)

[ThePythonicCow]

When she realized she had an investment in this, she grew. At the age of 26, she grew two and a half inches. I know this happened in a two-week period, and I have a strong unproven suspicion that it all happened in 24 hours. She had to throw away all her clothes and shoes.
I took Life Training, created by Roy Whitten and Brad Brown, sometime close to 1984. I didn't have to throw away all my clothes, but I did end up donating my one good tailored suit to Goodwill. I no longer had a hunched shoulder after that weekend, and the suit didn't fit right anymore.

I did not realize that had happened, until I tried to wear the suit, a month or two later.

[write4change]

I am now at a Denny's with a plug. I have often only had my IPad which I have no idea how to write on but it has a longer battery. the one thing I have learned is not to be impulsive and cultivating that trait has served me well.

I really appreciate Modwiz's post on reconsideration. I love Mod but periodically his cleverness irritates me. I consider it the dark side of men--that impulse to make wit serve as wisdom. It does not and I am impressed Mod that you can reflect on it. When it is really both it still is a rapier that needs to be considered because you can bleed to death from it before you really feel the pain.

As I have been drving through the Mohave I have considered how difficult it would be to survive like this which would have a planet increase of 5 degrees. Coperation and its coordination would be everything.

Lately I have been much into the congruency theory and the heart producing so much electro magnetic energy that it can be felt by other beings and the universe and maybe, as crop circles indicate, it could create a shield of energy for what is coming the conscious connection of the majority of planet inhabitents.

Since I was here on my breaks of drinking at McDs I have read all of Eagle's recent posts and did not find them as bad as some in the past that got to me but were not directed at me. Since March I have wanted to talk to Eagle and have PM her but she has never replied. I have done a lot of thinking about it. In one thread she wrote that some woman wanted her to make them a life and I wondered if that was directed towards me. I again PM and again never got a response.

After dually thinking about all this making disclosures now that Eagle cannot participate in does not seem fair. I experience the paradox of wanting someone of Eagle's influence to be seen from as many sides as possible while at the same time feeling it is not my job to do that.

When we last spoke she said I was not dealing with my fears. And that my fears were a lot of projections. I did not discount that but have looked deep to see how much of what she said was really true or not. I have generally lived my life by feel the fear and do it anyway. Against much advice I am traveling through the country with just my cat. I used to do this a lot through my 50s and I feel no different about it now other than I am more aware and I needed to feel what is out there in fly over land.

I have decided not to make public my gestalts with Eagle. I did EST in 72 in San Francisco with Warner and I did Lifespring from it the early 80s and then Lankmark. I have deep reservations about all of them inspite of what I learned. I do consider them dangerous for the weak and unaware. In 72, the most insightful part for me was asking myself when you started wearing glasses at 12--what did you not want to see. I also agreed with everyone makes as much money as they are comfortable with. Lifespring was good for my husband who has never done any consiousness movements at all until that time. But a lot of people used Lifespring as a selling device for Mary Kay and Amyway which I found very offensive.

But like Bill's story I have heard and seen many stories of the power of the mind. What scares me is moving the mind without considering the needs of the heart.

In reading this thread thoroughly, I keep considering starting a thread of my own. I have discussed this with Kimberly at length so it is not a new idea. I have already done it twice on this site when the only one doing it was Wade Frazier. One worked to some degree with a discussion of forming utopian societies. One was part of a mess and stopped rather than resolved. It left an ugly feeling I have not wanted to repeat.

In this consideration, you still get to see how your ego works. Part of me has felt compelled by the universe to do this and I keep saying no. Now that I know how to be really intimate I remain not wild about doing it. You really love the belief system you have worked so hard at developing. For the most part I have not been into sharing my story with the inner workings. It took a while for me to figure out why. It is not that I care rather or not people believe me but putting in public what is the wind beneath my wings really risks having that deflated in a sense that is truly scary. So in the knowlege of the fact that the only way I got here is to feel the fear and do it anyway. I am making the commitment to do this. Maybe not immediately but when I get back in two weeks or so.

When I start this thread, it will be in the belief that ultimately what lives on from us is our stories. We have shared the campfire with them since we could growl with a smile. I often get frustrated here but it is the stories that keep me coming back. Tonight I loved Bills and Modwiz's so much.

My thread will be called Living Uncertain from the Certitued of all my Gurus. LOL Good night friends.

[gripreaper]

Whatever tools are available to help clean up old karmic relationships and old beliefs, I encourage. One of Landmark Forum's first exercises is to clean up all your relationships and "say your sorry" and fix the divides and close the gulfs. Then look at your "story" and find out what the payoff is for that. Then, the big question of asking your self "what you really want" without filtering it through one's family dynamics, or society, soon follows.

I think nowadays a spiritual healer who can read your energy field, and blocks in your chakras is very helpful to get right to the heart of the matter.

[CdnSirian]

"that impulse to make wit serve as wisdom. It does not and I am impressed Mod that you can reflect on it. When it is really both it still is a rapier that needs to be considered because you can bleed to death from it before you really feel the pain." Spot on.

"Lately I have been much into the congruency theory and the heart producing so much electro magnetic energy that it can be felt by other beings and the universe and maybe, as crop circles indicate, it could create a shield of energy for what is coming the conscious connection of the majority of planet inhabitents." This makes so much sense to me...

" I did EST in 72 in San Francisco with Warner and I did Lifespring from it the early 80s and then Lankmark. I have deep reservations about all of them inspite of what I learned. I do consider them dangerous for the weak and unaware." Me too, deep reservations. And the hijacking of the word "authentic".

:ranger: But what do I know...

I think the wide open spaces are great for allowing thought, for me anyway...and you've written a wonderful post.

[jp11]

I took this course one time ... it was rough. It really was - 10 hour days and head beating with sticks style. It was called the Landmark Forum

I did the est training in London in 1984; est was the precursor of the Landmark Forum. It changed my entire view of the world.

At that time it was two weekends (four long days). I went on to become one of the volunteer logistics supervisors for the London Center, and my girlfriend Angi (the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room) was on the full-time est staff. She worked closely with Werner Erhard's sister. I met Werner briefly -- he was an inspired and remarkable man. It was all quite an interesting time. :)

I was wondering if you were going to mention that Bill.

Well, this is one of my stories (ha, ha). I did EST in NY City in 1973 and let me tell you it was the most life altering experience I had ever had up to that point! I was scared ****less, it was a big secret what was to happen. 2 consecutive weekends, went Friday night and Saturday night until the material was done...until early the next morning that is, and then Sunday night until a more reasonable hour. I knew no one there, had flown in from Ithaca NY.
Edit...oops it was in 1975

It was at that point in my life I started understanding about being a victim, big time. And I learned what tough stuff I was made of. I didn't crack when others around me who seemed so cool did...excuse the ego, sheesh. :)

I had previouly done Jose Silva's Mind Control and my psychic abilities really came out after my EST experience...blah, blah, blah. And this is what I meant when I said I gave my permission to people I trusted (this was the beginning). But you know what I became? What was called in those days an ESThole thinking I could or had the right to fix others. What a crock. And I can spot it in others a mile away. Today I won't put up with that from anyone... And I have so much compassion for those in my life who I inflicted that on. :)

And yes, if 9eagle9 was given permission and a thread to share her insights, that would probably work. It's the inflicting one's opinion (er... wisdom or experiences) on another without their permission that I don't agree with. And then there also has to be the understanding that "this is my experience" and not necessarily your's but for what it's worth, if it gives another a different perspective or a new way to see something, that could really be an eye opener...or like in my case a life altering experience.

I just want to say again...what a great bunch of people this forum has. You make me laugh, ponder, help expand my knowledge and awareness.

Thanks to all. :grouphug:

[Chester]

I took this course one time ... it was rough. It really was - 10 hour days and head beating with sticks style. It was called the Landmark Forum

I did the est training in London in 1984; est was the precursor of the Landmark Forum. It changed my entire view of the world.

At that time it was two weekends (four long days). I went on to become one of the volunteer logistics supervisors for the London Center, and my girlfriend Angi (the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room) was on the full-time est staff. She worked closely with Werner Erhard's sister. I met Werner briefly -- he was an inspired and remarkable man. It was all quite an interesting time. :)

I was wondering if you were going to mention that Bill.

Well, this is one of my stories (ha, ha). I did EST in NY City in 1973 and let me tell you it was the most life altering experience I had ever had up to that point! I was scared ****less, it was a big secret what was to happen. 2 consecutive weekends, went Friday night and Saturday night until the material was done...until early the next morning that is, and then Sunday night until a more reasonable hour. I knew no one there, had flown in from Ithaca NY.
Edit...oops it was in 1975

It was at that point in my life I started understanding about being a victim, big time. And I learned what tough stuff I was made of. I didn't crack when others around me who seemed so cool did...excuse the ego, sheesh. :)

I had previouly done Jose Silva's Mind Control and my psychic abilities really came out after my EST experience...blah, blah, blah. And this is what I meant when I said I gave my permission to people I trusted (this was the beginning). But you know what I became? What was called in those days an ESThole thinking I could or had the right to fix others. What a crock. And I can spot it in others a mile away. Today I won't put up with that from anyone... And I have so much compassion for those in my life who I inflicted that on. :)

And yes, if 9eagle9 was given permission and a thread to share her insights, that would probably work. It's the inflicting one's opinion (er... wisdom or experiences) on another without their permission that I don't agree with. And then there also has to be the understanding that "this is my experience" and not necessarily your's but for what it's worth, if it gives another a different perspective or a new way to see something, that could really be an eye opener...or like in my case a life altering experience.

I just want to say again...what a great bunch of people this forum has. You make me laugh, ponder, help expand my knowledge and awareness.

Thanks to all. :grouphug:

Hi, I am still self-banned until Sunday (my 7 day vacation) but this post I have quoted sums up everything I agree with and nothing outside of this post am I comfortable with. I breached the line where I began to try and "fix" wynderer and that was why I banned myself. I hold myself to higher standards.

See you guys Sunday and apologies to wynderer.

Chester

[Sierra]

See you Sunday Chester. :)

[RunningDeer]

I breached the line where I began to try and "fix" wynderer and that was why I banned myself. I hold myself to higher standards.

I have that same trouble JustOneMan/Chester. I’ve been known to toss out more post than not because it came from a place of “fix” or “eclipse”. To have an exchange, it includes regard for in their creative brilliance.

So I’m left with the questions, how, when, why, what to share? In short, my guide posts are, do it for the right reasons, the right time, and the right way; use qualities of respect, equality, sincerity and awareness of purpose.

And if I’m off the mark, there still is an exchange of growth between us; leaving the door open for a pure share next time.

The very fact that you question your intention, tells me that you share with integrity of purpose. Know that your messages would strike deep in me even if they were off the mark here and there.

Peace and heart,
Paula :wave:





I took this course one time ... it was rough. It really was - 10 hour days and head beating with sticks style. It was called the Landmark Forum

I did the est training in London in 1984; est was the precursor of the Landmark Forum. It changed my entire view of the world.

At that time it was two weekends (four long days). I went on to become one of the volunteer logistics supervisors for the London Center, and my girlfriend Angi (the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room) was on the full-time est staff. She worked closely with Werner Erhard's sister. I met Werner briefly -- he was an inspired and remarkable man. It was all quite an interesting time. :)

I was wondering if you were going to mention that Bill.

Well, this is one of my stories (ha, ha). I did EST in NY City in 1973 and let me tell you it was the most life altering experience I had ever had up to that point! I was scared ****less, it was a big secret what was to happen. 2 consecutive weekends, went Friday night and Saturday night until the material was done...until early the next morning that is, and then Sunday night until a more reasonable hour. I knew no one there, had flown in from Ithaca NY.
Edit...oops it was in 1975

It was at that point in my life I started understanding about being a victim, big time. And I learned what tough stuff I was made of. I didn't crack when others around me who seemed so cool did...excuse the ego, sheesh. :)

I had previouly done Jose Silva's Mind Control and my psychic abilities really came out after my EST experience...blah, blah, blah. And this is what I meant when I said I gave my permission to people I trusted (this was the beginning). But you know what I became? What was called in those days an ESThole thinking I could or had the right to fix others. What a crock. And I can spot it in others a mile away. Today I won't put up with that from anyone... And I have so much compassion for those in my life who I inflicted that on. :)

And yes, if 9eagle9 was given permission and a thread to share her insights, that would probably work. It's the inflicting one's opinion (er... wisdom or experiences) on another without their permission that I don't agree with. And then there also has to be the understanding that "this is my experience" and not necessarily your's but for what it's worth, if it gives another a different perspective or a new way to see something, that could really be an eye opener...or like in my case a life altering experience.

I just want to say again...what a great bunch of people this forum has. You make me laugh, ponder, help expand my knowledge and awareness.

Thanks to all. :grouphug:

Hi, I am still self-banned until Sunday (my 7 day vacation) but this post I have quoted sums up everything I agree with and nothing outside of this post am I comfortable with. I breached the line where I began to try and "fix" wynderer and that was why I banned myself. I hold myself to higher standards.

See you guys Sunday and apologies to wynderer.

Chester

[mojo]

(the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room)

Could you please share more about that incident, or if it was posted in another thread? thanks...:)

[Houman]

from 4:20 onward

qKE9FOlto1g

[Bill Ryan]

(the same one in whose company I saw the ET who appeared in our room)

Could you please share more about that incident, or if it was posted in another thread? thanks...:)

Full story told here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48483-Warning-from-NASA-Scientist-claims-Aliens-warn-of-massive-threat-to-Earth&p=536935&viewfull=1#post536935






For those unfamiliar with the anecdote:

Many years ago (1984) my girlfriend at the time, whose name was Angi, started to demonstrate a number of strong signs that she was not fully human.

It was at that time that an ET physically appeared (materialized) in my bedroom. I was in bed with her (at about 10.30 at night, and neither of us had fallen asleep) -- and we were cuddling face to face.

Looking over her shoulder, I saw the being appear in the doorway. It was there for about 30-45 seconds, and looked like a bald-headed 12 year-old child, with large eyes (but not the huge, almond-shaped kind). It was not an illusion. It was physically there.

It just looked at me. I stared back, frozen. I never said a word (I was speechless!) -- and Angi had her back to the being. As my body tensed, she said, without once turning her head to look towards the door: "Don't worry, it's all right. I see them all the time."

Write that into a movie script! After that, a whole series of things happened that are beyond the scope of this post or this thread. The remark Adi referred to was when we were having breakfast, soon after the ET incident. Everything was perfectly normal. It was just breakfast.

Out of the blue and without warning or context, Angi looked up at me from her bowl of granola and said:

"The Earth is a very beautiful place. It won't always be this way."

I asked her what on earth she meant -- and she acted as if she'd never said anything. It was like the words were not hers, but were coming through her. (This happened increasingly often). I get chills every time I think about it.

[Houman]

The speaker is "Raun Kaufman"

9bCurFXG5do

"At 18 months, Raun was diagnosed as severely and incurably autistic. Although advised to institutionalize Raun, his parents, authors/teachers Samahria and Barry Neil Kaufman, instead created an innovative home-based, child-centered program in an effort to reach their son. Their work, which developed into a unique methodology now known as The Son-Rise Program, enabled Raun to recover completely from his Autism, transforming him from a mute, withdrawn child with a tested I.Q. of less than 30 into an outgoing, social boy with a near-genius I.Q. Raun’s story was recounted by his father, Barry Neil Kaufman..."

http://www.barryneilkaufman.com/pics/78raunboyfa.jpg

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see Finefeather's comment#1920


Click-on forwarding arrow to see NancyV's comment #1926

I'm moving this reply over to this thread because as I stated to Finefeather in my comment #1903 in the Horus-Ra Thread:


Taken from observer's comment #1903 in the Horus-Ra Thread
"It is not my intention, Finefeather, of starting a debate with you, in this thread, over the issue of good v. evil with regard to telepathic thoughts and your personal experiences in the astral."

Since I made that remark, both Finefeather and NancyV have continued the debate that I asked Finefeather not to continue in that Hours-Ra Thread.

Even though I am not the OP in that thread, out of respect for what Houman is presenting, it is obvious (to me) they are both derailing the intention of the Horus-Ra Thread by continuing that debate in there.

I might point-out to both Finefeather, and NancyV they were the first, in each case, to reply to my comments in such a way that invoked my response. I was not the one to 'draw first blood'.


Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of Finefeather's comment #1492 from the Horus-Ra Thread

And, specifically to NancyV's earlier assertion that I commented to her first, the comment she is referring to was to Sabastion, not to her. In that comment I simply repeated a list of names that Sabastion had listed in another thread. NancyV's name was in that list. Get your facts straight, NancyV, before you start spouting-off accusations.

The comment, NancyV, was not to you, it was made to Sabastion. You were the one that told me to go FU myself.


Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of NancyV's comment #1860 from the Horus-Ra Thread

Now, allow me to address the accusation that I'm "picking and choosing" whose personal testimonies I consider, and whose I do not.

The objective evidence available on abductions is overwhelming. I have only accepted those members commenting in the Horus-Ra Thread personal claims to being an abductees, because of the abundance of physical evidence on this topic.

The objective evidence available on out of body experiences is nil.... zilch. There isn't a single item of objective evidence to support the very personal assertions being proclaimed by those promoting out of body experiences. These types of 'subjective evidence' are often called 'testimonies' in the Fundamentalist Christian movement, and are foundational persuasions to those subscribing to that sort of belief system.

This is the basis for why I have suggested these types of 'testimonies' would be better suited in a thread with similar 'testimonies' that can be found in discussions such as the Bible Thread.

The accusation that I am "angry" couldn't be further from the truth, and I would appreciate it if the two of you would stop attempting to assassinate my character by using these 'cheap shots'. If anyone seems angry it would be those whose paradigms the evidence I am presenting is offending.

The next issue that needs addressing is the evidence I have been presenting, itself.

What rational individual would care to have a debate with another individual who makes the statement (not once but twice) that he isn't going to look at the evidence I am presenting. These type of statments are clear indications that the individual is unwilling to look at any other aspect of his set opinions. A debate under those circumstances would be fruitless.

My comments within the Horus-Ra Thread have been to show that there is evidence which is contrary to that message being suggested - least I say implanted - from the Astral. Even the most genuine among the members may be subject to these misconstrued messages. The evidence for this possibility stretches all the way back into antiquity.

I believe my point in this debate is clear, well documented, and in no way intended to sound "angry".

If any member is unwilling to look at the evidence I have presented, than I am unwilling to continue this discussion.

[Hervé]

Yep! "Dialogues de sourds!"

Tough subject since, with it, even so-called "objective" evidence run into the stumbling block of the phenomena known as "stigmata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmata)."

In other words, any physical manifestations can be a product of one's mind (yep, even "physical" implants), as Bill exemplified here:



[...]

When she realized she had an investment in this, she grew. At the age of 26, she grew two and a half inches. I know this happened in a two-week period, and I have a strong unproven suspicion that it all happened in 24 hours. She had to throw away all her clothes and shoes.

This was medically impossible -- and yet it happened before my eyes (and the tape measure). That's the power of the mind.

Hence, the only "evidence" left is that 1000s upon 1000s are somehow sharing the same or similar "pictures" since when being asked similar questions, similar answers are given as to their "subjective" reality of what occurred which leads a few people to go something like: "Hmmmmhhhfff... maybe there is something to it?"

Is there an objective way to differentiate between current life occurrences and hypnotic implants from a few million years ago surfacing from the subconscious at night and being triggered into activation in the here and now beyond a "subjective" inner knowledge? In the absence of a reliable, objective way of "dating" such pictures... the answer is NO.

This is what makes it so difficult for current super-soldiers to unravel their past since in doing so they also run into these long ago similar "past" training and implants.

Never mind the "Astral Ratatouille" where everything given a thought is alive (see Steve Richards).

In short, to each his/her own with respect to one's subjective experiences and certainty.

[DeDukshyn]

Is there an objective way to differentiate between current life occurrences and hypnotic implants from a few million years ago surfacing from the subconscious at night and being triggered into activation in the here and now beyond a "subjective" inner knowledge? In the absence of a reliable, objective way of "dating" such pictures... the answer is NO.

This is what makes it so difficult for current super-soldiers to unravel their past since in doing so they also run into these long ago similar "past" training and implants.

Never mind the "Astral Ratatouille" where everything given a thought is alive (see Steve Richards).

In short, to each his/her own with respect to one's subjective experiences and certainty.

Or it may very simply be that consciousness affects reality .. one of the two ...

[observer]

Yep! "Dialogues de sourds!"

"In other words, any physical manifestations can be a product of one's mind (yep, even "physical" implants) , as Bill exemplified here: (emphasis added by observer)


[....snip]



The only apparent "Dialogues de sourds!" going on here, amzer, is the highlighted statement from your above quote.

[clarity]
Dialogues de sourds: dialogue in which people who speak do not understand

I'm certain Bill wasn't suggesting the possible manifestation of what we know as 'physical implants' when he interjected that antidote into one of his previous comments , that you quoted later in your comment.

This is the very point of my comments in the Horus-Ra thread.

Trusting the message given in telepathic suggestions.... playing, with wonton abandon in the Astral, as is being suggested by certain members.... can lead to all sorts of convoluted belief systems.

These belief systems become dogma, with very little recognizable difference from that of a Fundamentalist Christian 'witnessing' his personal experiences on a soap box down at the intersection of Hope, and Delusion Avenues.

- update -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88YgXgjsj6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88YgXgjsj6M

Start listening at about 6 min. into the interview.

Thank you, SEAM, for posting this interview in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48991-Saucers-Swastikas-and-Psyops-12-08-24-W.-Strieber-interview&p=544079#top).

Now.... if that's "anger", than you can throw me out !!!

[wynderer]

thanks for clarification of 'dialogues de sourds' -- reminds me of that song Steve Martin did, his take on 'singer-songwriters', this line:
'Criticize things you don't know about...' [strum, strum of banjo]

also, i'm thinking of that Native American saying re don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their moccasins -- applying this to those who are not lifelong abductees &/or milabs, who do not have half 3D/half 4D implants in their bodies, yet who freely offer advice & condemnation, the latter often delivered in a passive/aggressive way -- or in the purely aggressive, as in NancyV comparing me to a gnat in her face



Yep! "Dialogues de sourds!"

"In other words, any physical manifestations can be a product of one's mind (yep, even "physical" implants) , as Bill exemplified here: (emphasis added by observer)


[....snip]



The only apparent "Dialogues de sourds!" going on here, amzer, is the highlighted statement from your above quote.

[clarity]
Dialogues de sourds: dialogue in which people who speak do not understand

I'm certain Bill wasn't suggesting the possible manifestation of what we know as 'physical implants' when he interjected that antidote into one of his previous comments , that you quoted later in your comment.

This is the very point of my comments in the Horus-Ra thread.

Trusting the message given in telepathic suggestions.... playing, with wonton abandon in the Astral, as is being suggested by certain members.... can lead to all sorts of convoluted belief systems.

These belief systems become dogma, with very little recognizable difference from that of a Fundamentalist Christian 'witnessing' his personal experiences on a soap box down at the intersection of Hope, and Delusion Avenues.

- update -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88YgXgjsj6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88YgXgjsj6M

Start listening at about 6 min. into the interview.

Thank you, SEAM, for posting this interview in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48991-Saucers-Swastikas-and-Psyops-12-08-24-W.-Strieber-interview&p=544079#top).

Now.... if that's "anger", than you can throw me out !!!

[Chester]

Hi from justoneman. I am returning from my self imposed vacation. But I return under probation. I want to see if I am capable of raising my standards of participation in Avalon based first and foremost upon the forum guidelines which I accepted when applying for membership and secondly upon my own standards. If I break either of these again anywhere near to the extent of the line I crossed last week, then I will permanently leave (if I have not been banned by Bill and/or the Mod Team first).
The Mod Team here has enough to do than waste their time with justoneman.

Enough said on that part.

A few days after I went on vacation I sent a PM to Bill and Paul. The PM got no response (which is a form of response). In that PM I let out venomous feelings. Yes, I was on vacation from publically posting, but I also regret that PM and regret the words I wrote. No need to state what those words covered. It showed I was still consciously holding onto to infectious and parasitical energies and worse, imposed that energy upon Bill and Paul. I then quickly recovered to a new level of self deception where I proposed a solution to a problem that may not actually exists. My proposal was that Bill consider the idea of creating a category where “anything goes.” I described it as a part of “the Avalon house” where “adults could go” implying that some of us are children and some are not. Again, I received no response.

My conclusion? This is not my forum. My membership is nothing more than that I am an accepted guest.

I was a bit peeved I got no reply regarding my brilliant idea. So who perhaps is the child here (implying it is myself)? hahaha – sometimes vacations are good as today I can sit back and laugh while gazing in the mirror.

Now I will relay a brief story once told to me by a wise man. A story which I did not heed when he gave me the hint and hopefully will heed regarding my membership to Avalon.

There was a boy who lived with his father in a nice house surrounded by a nice wooden fence. One day the boy reacted to an impulse to start pounding nails into the fence. From the boy’s point of view, he wasn’t causing any harm. Heck, it was fun pounding the hammer on these nails embedding them into the wood. The father soon saw the fence and went to the boy and asked his son to remove all the nails. The boy, realizing he disappointed his father and feeling remorse, went to the fence and one by one carefully removed all the nails. When he was finished, the father returned and asked his son to look at the fence. Then the father asked his son for his thoughts. The boy replied, “I know I did wrong and so I honored your request and removed all the nails.” And the father answered back, “Yes, you did indeed remove the nails but what are we left with? A fence so filled with holes it has lost its purpose.” “Each and every nail you hammered, though you removed them left a hole. Can you see the more and more nails you placed in this fence, that one day it is a fence no more?”
So yes we can make mistakes (pounding in nails), yes we can apologize (removing the nails), but if we continue to make the same mistakes over and over, the apologies can never repair the damage (all the holes we leave).

Last week, I hammered in a nail.
I vow that this nail be my last.
And I vow not to become a problem child for the mods.

Now to show I actually got a clue, I want to review what came to me during my vacation.

I had come to believe that everyone who joins Avalon is seeking solutions for their problems and/or the problems they perceive exist in the world. I was wrong. I made an assumption that everyone’s motivations for being here are the same as mine and fell into the trap of that assumption.

Some may just be here to share and have no particular agenda other than desiring community.

Some might be here to share about the horrors of their past. Some are here to share about their ongoing horrors.

The likelihood that someone in this last group becomes open to potential solutions is directly proportional to their sense of safety and that was a point Bill got across to me loud and clear but took me all but 7 days to reach this understanding in my heart. If my self banning served no other good purpose, that alone made it the right thing to do.

Some may just be here because they have no debilitating problems but believe they can help others.

Some are here to seek solutions but may only be open to solutions that would fit within their current world view. Some of these folks are not open to an adjustment in their world view. Who am I to impose upon that? By doing so without leading with compassion is taking every one of us in the wrong direction.

I heard the many who commented in this split-off thread that unless I place compassion to at the forefront of anything I post, I only further feed the monster. Just because I think I have achieved self perceived breakthroughs, does not mean I found answers that would automatically apply to anyone else’s situation. Clearly, I too often write in a manner which imposes my solution.

OK, I am ready to move forward.

Only at some point in the future may others feel comfortable such that all that I wrote above was not just words. We shall see. justoneman

[Tigressa]

Well I would like to thank Bill for doing his job as a moderator with such grace for a start.
I had some troubles with the Horus-Ra thread and Bill tried to mediate very thoughtfully I thought.

There was a rather odd energy around this thread.

[wynderer]

Houman's Horus-Ra Archon thread deals w/info/facts that a lot have trouble accepting -- this does tend to stir up odd energies


Well I would like to thank Bill for doing his job as a moderator with such grace for a start.
I had some troubles with the Horus-Ra thread and Bill tried to mediate very thoughtfully I thought.

There was a rather odd energy around this thread.

[Tigressa]

That is part of it.

Guess I just have trouble calling some of what I read as a 'fact'. Some people don't have that problem and find 'resonance' in things that stir them. This is not quite the same thing as 'knowing'.

[Christine]

There was a rather odd energy around this thread.

Welcome back Tigressa, very glad to hear from you.

Yes there is just bound to be odd energy on this thread, it is a place to tread carefully. It has opened doors to some memories for me but I only go through them as I am able.

[Chester]

That is part of it.

Guess I just have trouble calling some of what I read as a 'fact'. Some people don't have that problem and find 'resonance' in things that stir them. This is not quite the same thing as 'knowing'.

Well and delicately put and with clear compassion... and Yes, Bill and the mods have a very tough job. Hopefully safe places will be protected for everyone of us. Chester

[mahalall]

The thread provides valuable insights, the concern observed is that the way one might be drawn into a reactional sensation through which this energy could be used and abused. Sure Avalon's are mature and wise enough, just to be able to observe, smile and compassionately look beyond.

Grateful to be able fly fish the thread remebering not to use a hook ;)