Focus and Respect! (Or, you'll destroy cogent conversations.)

[Dennis Leahy]

Focus!
At a cocktail party, if you fly off on a tangent to the topic of conversation, someone might get mildly annoyed. On the Avalon forum, it may destroy the conversation. We've seen this dozens of times, where threads with very important information get filled with... filler. (tangents, tangents to tangents, pissing contests, etc.) Most people here are not "agents" and are not deliberately destroying threads - but plenty of people do it unconsciously or inadvertently, or have fallen into the patterns they observe others doing.

Before posting in an existing thread, ask yourself, "Is this truly relevant to the conversation?" and "Does my comment honor the original poster's (OP) intent?"

If your post is not relevant and does not add to the conversation, don't post it! Start a new thread if you want, but don't dilute or distract the existing thread.

If your post opposes the intent of the OP, stop. Think. Check carefully to see whether this new post of yours truly belongs in this thread, or whether you should start another thread to express your viewpoint. Here's an example:

Someone starts a thread titled: "My ET Research Conclusions"

What if I do not believe in ETs at all, and want to express my honest opinion that ETs are imaginary? We can probably all agree that my opinion is valid - as all opinions are valid - but does my opinion belong in this thread? No, it doesn't. If I have a burning desire to express an opinion in opposition to this person's conclusions, (or even if I am also researching the same subject and find conclusive evidence in opposition), I can start my own thread. It would be different if the thread would have been titled "Do ETs Exist?", and the OP went on to conclude that in his/her opinion, they do. That thread title is an invitation for discussion - both ways - about ET existence.

Please think very carefully before posting in a thread you did not start. The mods/admins cannot possibly police every post in every thread to see that this is followed - it is up to each of us to protect the focus of threads.


Respect!
(on this one I'm going to give a specific example, but first, some generalities)

Avalon is an ever-changing forum, and it is true that Bill Ryan orchestrated an overall paradigm shift from a forum basically centered on alternative news, black-ops and hidden truth/hidden agenda exposure, whistleblower research and testimony, and esoteric spirituality to a forum with a sense that there is basically enough powerful and veil-lifting material available now that we can focus on integrating the (frequently relatively recent) historical material into a paradigm shift in our own lives, physically and spiritually.

Still, some new and some clarifying info is still coming in to supplement the data that has been accumulated, and it is a precious resource of Avalon. Precious. Resource. Important to guard and preserve its integrity. In the same light, it is important to recognize the people who brought us this material, almost always at extreme risk to themselves and even their families' safety. What do we owe them? Thanks and deep respect, even if we disagree with some or all of their conclusions.

Some Avalon members have fallen into a cavalier forum demeanor, and routinely start clicking away on their keyboard to inject a snarky, mocking, belittling, or wholesale dismissive comment, targeted at any (non-member's) work that they believe to be flawed or incorrect. The worst of this behavior sees members using non-members as punching bags and fair game for relentless ridicule and scorn. David Wilcock and Ben Fulford come to mind as frequent targets (while the vast majority of Avalon members recognize these guys as sincere members of our loose coalition of "our side" versus the Dark Cabal.) We have specific forum rules to protect members from members' invective, but maybe not so clearly defined rules about protecting non-members (whistleblowers, etc.) from invective.

Guess what?

These guys are human. They have human emotions. They have breaking points. They have worked countless hours under very tough conditions and often at great personal risk, researching and observing and reporting their findings - and they deserve respect even if you (partially or completely) disagree with them.

Now for the specific example (that triggered this thread's creation.)
{reference this thread: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42516-9-11-The-Official-Account-of-the-Pentagon-Attack-is-a-Fantasy)}
Dennis Cimino is a 9/11 researcher - quite probably one of a very small cluster of high integrity researchers that has the background expertise to sift through the data, reject the bullsh!t, and form cogent conclusions. If you don't believe or don't want to accept his conclusions, that is your prerogative. Publicly being wholesale dismissive is not.

I don't know if Wilcock or Fulford or others that have been ridiculed or dismissed ever contact Bill or the admins/mods, but when Dennis Cimino (who is not a member here) saw several comments that ranged from inflammatory (used the word "criminality") to dismissive, he did contact me through the Avalon staff.

Imagine putting in thousands and thousands of hours into research, and publishing a document damning to the US government's pack-of-lies official explanation with solid, hard hitting conclusions - coming from an undisputed expert. Imagine yourself taking that next step, the one where you have to say, "I'm willing to die to get this truth out!", because that is the level at which this 'game' is played. Then, imagine seeing someone utterly dismissing all your work as being so full of errors, "easily provable errors", that they then make a monetary challenge that their conclusions - unlike Dennis Cimino's - can withstand scrutiny.

This is not the way whistleblowers and researchers deserve to be treated here at Avalon. We have to do better than this.

I ask all of my fellow members here at Avalon to accept the responsibility to take a minute before responding to any thread, and to police yourself to maintain both focus and respect.

Thank you.

Dennis

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Guilty, i apologise.

[Dennis Leahy]

Guilty, i apologise.
Plumber, me too. I have done some of this. I am not placing myself above this. This is a self-reminder as well as a request of all members.

Dennis

[Cidersomerset]

Totally agree Dennis......It costs nothing to be polite , we all get carried away sometimes in the heat of verbal debate ,especially if you do not agree
with a post or topic or whatever but worth every now and again to draw back and pause before sometimes giving a instant 'pithy' or rude reply..

That does not mean a robust comment or rebuttle to something you disagree should not be appropriate,,,,but think before you type we are all
friends here or we would not have joined imo.....That also means if you are a maveric you views are welcome, just be aware as well as 'Awake'

Cheers steve....

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4g015LVjA1rppdhmo1_1280.png

Nothing wrong with 'Pithy' in the right context.. Modwiz is the expert ..LOl..

[Limor Wolf]

Extremely thoughtful and very well said, thank you Dennis! I undertake to recheck my posts before I press the 'send' button, I agree with every word you expressed and I agree to honor the intention. Let it be.

[kreagle]

Dennis Leahy,

Brother,.....you don't know 'just how timely' your post is, here!

Hebrews 12:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


To your post,......I say a 'resounding Amen!'

Thank you!,.......

Your friend, brother, and servant..........kreagle

[4evrneo]

Dennis,
Thank you for this post and the reminder. I like learning responsibility :yes4:

Cheers,
Annette

[Belle]

Thanks for your timely thread, Dennis.

I'm sorry for the times I have lost focus on a thread and posted related material that may not have been consistent with the OP's intent. Sometimes the desire to share material overcomes my better judgment and can derail a thread as quickly as a snarky retort to an innocent statement. It's kind of like being in a discussion and focusing on what you are going to say next rather than hearing what others are saying.

As for respect...I would no sooner post a negative comment to or about someone who cannot reply than I would talk behind someone's back in real life...which happens to be one of my biggest pet peeves! Give respect by allowing others to defend themselves or their position if you are not in agreement. I think that's the reason I react as I do to threads about people who have been given a vacation or banned....it may give space to those left to freely speak their minds in the matter and clear the air, but the one being discussed has no way to speak for themselves or defend themselves against what is being said about them.

Okay, focus Belle....

You've done PA a wonderful service by giving us these reminders. I may just have to put a sticky note with the words FOCUS and RESPECT on my laptop!

[miqeel]

Question to Mods. Perhaps make this thread sticky?
To OP thank you kindly for this thread and message. It is most timely and appropriate.

[Anchor]

The forum works best when between extremes of order and disorder. Finding the balance point is very hard.

Organized chaos does allow for some important things to be said that otherwise may not have seen the light of day.

So while I basically agree with the OP, I would not like to see this carried to extremes because it may itself have a "chilling effect"

There are forums around that have a very tight moderation of "respect" and thread focus, and those forums often dont have threads that last past the second page.

[Carmody]

you can't define out of line, until you see it. As in the words said and the context and place, time, and so on.

I get that a lot, personally. before I came to this forum, I stood as having been attacked and ridiculed for about a decade, for about, oh...15,000-22,000 posts. Yes, that whole time. I was on my own. Internet justice was born out of the barrel of a, eh..unh..keyboard.

This closed forum, regarding random posting from complete strangers, is the only oasis I've ever seen or been involved with. Everything I've ever said or done has been considered radical. Even the stuff I said and did that was proven to be true, time and time again.

as you might imagine, I have well developed defense and attack mechanisms, and hope to master patience...some day.

I'm glad be at a place where I never have to put too much teeth (as in carnivore) in any of my comments or responses.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Hi Dennis, love your intent, but Anchor is right, forums are for discussions.

Imagine a Debate club where both sides are arguing the same point, after one sentence from both sides, complete silence...

every topic at Avalon is interesting because we get both sides of every argument...

for a whistleblower to come forward to us, it is to share what they have discovered and run it by a team of experts, you think we're tough?

sure we have some firecrackers, but skip the post and onto the next, not even worthy of a response by one in the know that should be chuckling seeing others claiming to be experts coming forward...

maybe we need a whistleblower section outside of General discussion that gives a quiet thread for the experts to lay out their evidence and we hold back any controversy, that can be a separate thread opened for discussion...

being nice to each other is a given here, and I don't see things heating up very often any more...

sure election topics have a lot of hatred spewing from people's keyboards, but better to vent and start healing afterwards instead of grabbing a gun and heading to a theater...

[nomadguy]

I agree with you Dennis whole-heartedly.
I often hold my chatter back on many threads. I tend to blahblah both on here and in normal life as I like to chat about things and sail right down any rabbit hole I find. So I too fall into the trap.
This is not so uncommon I find. We all can get wrapped up in the mystery and sometimes emotionally so. Which can cause us to post something against our better judgement.

I most certainly have done this before.
And I hope no one takes any offense to this.
If that has happened ~ I am truly sorry. :tape2:

And also if anyone has done this to my threads... which are seldom. I forgive you.

It is my opinion that we can make a real effort to :
do our best to use discernment and always respect one another
things will begin to go smoother and the threads will be further enriched.
Were all human and people are going to get there toes stepped on. And also the blahblah effect is going to happen, BUT it will happen less and with less harm if we all use our discernment and respect.

Thank You Dennis for this most Valuable post.

[Carmody]

Lest it be forgot, one of the fundamental reasons to maintain etiquette and decorum on the forum..is that not everyone has a posting and living style that is one of extreme behavior and/or duress..as a norm..in order to communicate.

Thus the persons who are too hard, in-yer-face, rude, derogatory, and so on..in the scope of their daily routine..those folks need to be kept under control and gone after. This behavior is due to them simply not knowing or having within them the organized and understood capacity to be or do different. A simple fact concerning the logic of psychology and 'being'.

For those who are quiet... may be able to and many times do bring more to the table of a discussion than those who are 'living large' as they say.

Thus, to keep as much of the conversation as is possible, in the realm of 'taking place', the meek MUST be given room to be, and the harsh need be hammered into being nice.

The quiet gentler types, many times, will not involve themselves in the world of the harsh, for all kinds of logical reasons that the harsh do not seem to be capable of seeing or knowing. Yet..

It really is that simple.

Nothing personal. Be an ass, and one will eventually get the smackdown. Sooner is better, so fewer of the quieter members are not pushed away.

Too much ass behavior on a repeated basis...and then one will find themselves on the outside of the forum.

Logical and correct, not personal.

[Sierra]

Lest it be forgot, one of the fundamental reasons to maintain etiquette and decorum on the forum..is that not everyone has a posting and living style that is one of extreme behavior and/or duress..as a norm..in order to communicate.

Thus the persons who are too hard, in-yer-face, rude, derogatory, and so on..in the scope of their daily routine..those folks need to be kept under control and gone after. This behavior is due to them simply not knowing or having within them the organized and understood capacity to be or do different. A simple fact concerning the logic of psychology and 'being'.

For those who are quiet... may be able to and many times do bring more to the table of a discussion than those who are 'living large' as they say.

Thus, to keep as much of the conversation as is possible, in the realm of 'taking place', the meek MUST be given room to be, and the harsh need be hammered into being nice.

The quiet gentler types, many times, will not involve themselves in the world of the harsh, for all kinds of logical reasons that the harsh do not seem to be capable of seeing or knowing. Yet..

It really is that simple.

Nothing personal. Be an ass, and one will eventually get the smackdown. Sooner is better, so fewer of the quieter members are not pushed away.

Too much ass behavior on a repeated basis...and then one will find themselves on the outside of the forum.

Logical and correct, not personal.

Yes, and that is why you keep ending up on the short list to be a mod ... it really isn't personal in most cases. It is energy and how much is being slurped or given and how is the balance holding up.

I think mob mentality is the worst. No one is actually thinking about the impact (or thinking period) of their words when baying for blood.

At that point, one really is a victim of one's own mentality/personality. And projecting usually.

Sierra

[SEAM]

maybe we need a whistleblower section outside of General discussion that gives a quiet thread for the experts to lay out their evidence and we hold back any controversy, that can be a separate thread opened for discussion...



Some of the very best information I have ever read... came from other forums...
Don't get me wrong, this place is great, for all of the right reasons, but (SOME) real sources, with real information, often times need to remain out of the real prying eyes of TPTB.
I'd love to see some kind of anonymous status, where the whistleblowers who haven't published their work, or the funds to protect their family, can still speak up, and debate, without putting themselves "Out There". I'm sure the posers, and provocateurs would stand out, under this crowds scrutiny.

Would be nice to have a "Safe-House" place for the "Aussie Bloke's", "NASA Insider's", "John Titor's", etc., etc., that have to originate at the other less tasteful forums.

Case in point is the recent numbers of members vs. visitors thread. Even members don't like to be followed through these hallways at times...... :cool2:

[Flash]

The meek could participate more if they feel somewhat protected, but also, they could slowly build a thicker skin, although in an open futur world, this most probably won't be necessary - if everybody is nice and take you as you are, why would one need a thick skin?

I was training a group of young men/women 2 years ago. They were harsh to the extreme, 6 of the guys were extremely wealthy, know it all, very judgmental, and very wittily despising towards the rest, not naming how they would talk to girls. The girls and others, coming from poorer or different milieu, were often put on the defensive. They would answer with whip and wit, but the overall atmosphere was not nice.

Until one day one of the guy said something to a girl who answered as harshly. I stopped them, defended her and forbid him to behave this way. She answered "madame, don't worry, I can and will defend myself", my answer "why would you have to defend yourself, you should be living happily without having to even think about defense". It slowly changed over time, it took some maturity from the wealthy ones to change - even though some people never get to this level of maturity.

On the other hand, to stop such behavior, one has to have constructed a tougher skin and know were he/she stands. Also, the meeks can be very sensitive and have a high susceptibility level. Therefore, efforts have to be put in on that side as well. In my opinion obviously.

I can tell you that when things are getting tense in some threads, me, who does not participate that much already, will totally stop participating. Why? Because it is not worth it to get upset and put my health on the fence.

I will also stop participating when things are getting too neurotic and there is no heart or logic to fall back on (I purposefully said "heart OR logic" because both can bring back sanity). Humour which works very well face to face within a given culture does not work that well on a written international forum, that I found.

So thanks Dennis for this thread, it is an essential one for any group of people sharing together.

[ulli]

Once someone believes they know it all or that others are ignorant, they shut the door to further discovery.
Whatever one's views are, to express them in such a way that another's views get to be ridiculed
means that not even their own cause stands a chance.
All that is then noticed is the controversy itself.

I used to be opinionated and tended towards absolutist thinking but gradually have learnt from life that it's best to leave room for a sequel.


P.S. Looking at the response to your opening post, Dennis, I'd say you've been preaching to the choir.
Everyone here has been converted ages ago...
Now let's see if I can become the exception....

Saw this the other day:

http://i.imgur.com/F6XQe.jpg

[CdnSirian]

I'm glad this topic was brought up. As I have posted before, I almost left this forum right after joining because of the rude and aggressive replies I got. Who has the time?

Threads can be intense, difficult, and even competitive without being rude. A discussion or an argument can be strong, without rudeness or finger wagging. A person can be angry/adamant about a point and still be polite. We are here to exchange information and develop new points of view. It shouldn't be a gaunlet run!

[SKAWF]

i do agree with the intent of the OP.

and the sentiment in general.....

i mean... where it focuses solely on the thread,
and the following participation in it.....

yeah i agree.

but in totality, relevance and respect. or the lack of.....
are not the only reasons why threads are spoiled.

sometimes its the things going on behind the scenes,
which the vast majority of members and visitors have no idea about.

you know the kind of thing......
rows going on between members, people following others from thread to thread...
long range wind ups, mind games, all the way down to nasty messages being sent around
with the sender acting in public like butter wouldnt melt in their mouth!
a whole spectrum of reasons why things go tits up.

so as i say, i agree with the sentiment and intent of this thread...
but i think maybe expanding our view on this to encompass conduct here in general,
as well as the relevance and respect covered in the OP

might have a wider reaching, and longer lasting positive effect,
on threads which are subsequently posted by members.

cheers

[Carmody]

The more important point connected to the point I was trying to make, is that human development moves along the line of 'extreme behavior over and into 'levelheaded' and 'quiet' behavior.

the truth of the matter being that as we grow, our bodies less influence our behavior, our connections and our interactions.

and when that happens, we get quieter and more reasonable. so the middle of the road IS in the area of quiet and reasonable in our communications.

True, that the extremely easy going might want to grow a thicker skin.

For if we go to the reincarnation model (which was even fully fleshed out in the bible.... before it was erased by the Romans), that particular model is that we go through all forms of incarnation before we find balance.

A balance that has nothing to do with the body's screeching and moaning, somehow owning the incarnated's behavior and actions.

Thus..one should control themselves. It's very simple logic. Even if the given person who is too far gone on a 'my body's emotions control me' rip of some sort..can see that -or not.

For example, regarding this matter. a comparison. one that shows that the norm is not an extreme.

The republican party or what it is right now, is trying to establish a norm or middle that is really, seriously way off center and way too far into brutal fascism and associated extremes. so that they can have a middle road that appears to be normal to people..... but is actually, way way too far to the right and way too extreme in other areas.

What I'm trying to say is that the average group who is aiming for a better normalization may not know where that normal is, and that the normal is not what they expect it to be. And that screeching louder than others does not equate to might making right.

So, back to the reincarnation model. well, what one learns from that model is that the way to getting a stable earth functioning..... has nothing to do with the conversations and the rumination taking place in a loud and potent environment of a nature that is similar to a stock room floor. For some, maybe. But that as an established norm is a place to move out of and away from, and is only a temporary sideshow to growth.

A place to pass through that must end, not continue.

And that this place, the Avalon forum is not that screechy, loud, argumentative space.

It is the rational place that one comes to when they want to finally get themselves OUT of the crap.

Thus, the person who is trying to change, must be the one who changes into a new norm which is quieter with more thinking, more ruminating, a more fair and stable exchange, where the ideas and thoughts get through to them and their thoughts get through to others.

For that is the very point itself.....remember? Reasoned debate, reasoned communication,..all of that has nothing to do with heated arguments, positions or heated behavior, even if the person involved feels it may.

It is especially and specifically not that heated thinking and action. Very specifically so.

[Oouthere]

I am guilty and should work more on my people skills and do apologize. My divorce was focused on my "brutal honesty" as was stated in court. See what I can do....

Rich