Parlor of Madame Blavatsky

[westhill]

I have come to really appreciate this woman. Many of the discussions we have on this forum
are possible because of her life work. You don't have to agree with everything put forth but
it all helps you to come to your own self.

jLq6XrfTZDw

ky4w0rVyGRY

[sirdipswitch]

Eight years ago, I finished a 14 month study, of her "Secret Doctrines" Vols, I and II. It is my firm belief, that her critics, haven't even read her work, or didn't understand that which they did read. I then went on to read dozens of books by her followers, at the 'Theosophical Society" of Pasadena, library.

Her work helped me immensely, to achieve and understand that which I now do.

Which is, if you're curious, explained on anotherbob's: "Adventures Out Of Body" thread, under "Spirituality".


Love, Peace, Humor
sirdipswitch

[sandy]

Thanks westhill,

I truly enjoy Micheal and I found the Man in The Parlor of Madam Blavatsky just as enjoyable and informative. Deceit is definitely the Name of the Game in MHO :)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I have been studying Blavatsky material for years as well as Alice Bailey and have found it very informative and instructive. Many of the concepts that she illustrates have parallels in other traditions, but using different labels and language.

[Trinity]

west hill..

who is the gentleman giving the presentation..?

regards

alex

[westhill]

Morning Trinity...
I just found him very recently on YouTube. His name is Bill Donahue. I have only seen two of his
presentations. Both were very interesting (and entertaining). His website is www.hiddenmeanings.com
I plan on viewing more. Cheers.

[Cartomancer]

I would think twice about valuing a personage such as this. This person was a manufactured spiritualist that was part of a plan designed to institute a new religion for the new age. She and her handlers identified the perfect combonation of mumbo jumbo to mess with your head straight out of Jung and Freud.

She is espousing a touchy-feely new age channeling kind of faith that Hitler, Bormann, and Himmler just loved. This is the kind of 'faith' that is used to control your hypothalamus and psyche. Check into the Lucis trust and how it associated with the United Nations. Even Tsarion expresses doubt over this woman. This is the same crowd that is manufacturing the Maitreya for you.

Here you go. Prophets don't materialize organically but we're going to give you one that is manufactured just in time for the processional change of the zodiac. Don't make up your own mind or have your own faith. Let Blavatsky do it for you by channeling the Pliedans or who ever else you want to hear from. These people are manipulative occultists who want to control you with this B.S. They don't even believe this stuff. If you examine the whole breadth of history you will see a continual presence of people like this. The occult is all about manipulating the tier of idiots below you and this woman was created for that purpose alone.

Next lets start and thread about Aleister Crowley and how cool ritual masturbation and sex rites are. If he says it o.k. it must be cool.

All of the megalomaniacal manipulative groups through history have always had a Blavatsky for you. C'mon people. The Pharohs, Ceasar, Royalty, Occult secret societies all have so little respect for you but to feed you this kind of B.S. and everyone eats it up with a fork and knife. They want to create your faith so they can control you with some spiritual channeling and fortune telling.

[write4change]

I would think twice about valuing a personage such as this. This person was a manufactured spiritualist that was part of a plan designed to institute a new religion for the new age. She and her handlers identified the perfect combonation of mumbo jumbo to mess with your head straight out of Jung and Freud.

She is espousing a touchy-feely new age channeling kind of faith that Hitler, Bormann, and Himmler just loved. This is the kind of 'faith' that is used to control your hypothalamus and psyche. Check into the Lucis trust and how it associated with the United Nations. Even Tsarion expresses doubt over this woman. This is the same crowd that is manufacturing the Maitreya for you.

Here you go. Prophets don't materialize organically but we're going to give you one that is manufactured just in time for the processional change of the zodiac. Don't make up your own mind or have your own faith. Let Blavatsky do it for you by channeling the Pliedans or who ever else you want to hear from. These people are manipulative occultists who want to control you with this B.S. They don't even believe this stuff. If you examine the whole breadth of history you will see a continual presence of people like this. The occult is all about manipulating the tier of idiots below you and this woman was created for that purpose alone.

Next lets start and thread about Aleister Crowley and how cool ritual masturbation and sex rites are. If he says it o.k. it must be cool.

All of the megalomaniacal manipulative groups through history have always had a Blavatsky for you. C'mon people. The Pharohs, Ceasar, Royalty, Occult secret societies all have so little respect for you but to feed you this kind of B.S. and everyone eats it up with a fork and knife. They want to create your faith so they can control you with some spiritual channeling and fortune telling.

This comment needs to be seriously considered by all who admire theosophy. I also read it and studied these writings during the 70s. Some body as enlightened as this woman would have never chosen Annie Bissant to follow after her. People should read wikipedia on Annie Bissant. At one time she was the most famous woman in the world. I considered doing a spec script on her but the more I investigated her life the more I could not do it. I am sure a lot of other women have come to that conclusion. In depth, she became an evil soul because above all she was seduced by power.

In short, she tried to destroy Mahatma Gandhi and she certainly ruinded the life of Krishnamurti who in 1929 publicly disavowed her plans for becoming the World Teacher and returned all the money collected by the Eastern Star Foundation. When the last of the money was returned she died.

[Finefeather]

I would think twice about valuing a personage such as this. This person was a manufactured spiritualist that was part of a plan designed to institute a new religion for the new age. She and her handlers identified the perfect combonation of mumbo jumbo to mess with your head straight out of Jung and Freud.

She is espousing a touchy-feely new age channeling kind of faith that Hitler, Bormann, and Himmler just loved. This is the kind of 'faith' that is used to control your hypothalamus and psyche. Check into the Lucis trust and how it associated with the United Nations. Even Tsarion expresses doubt over this woman. This is the same crowd that is manufacturing the Maitreya for you.

Here you go. Prophets don't materialize organically but we're going to give you one that is manufactured just in time for the processional change of the zodiac. Don't make up your own mind or have your own faith. Let Blavatsky do it for you by channeling the Pliedans or who ever else you want to hear from. These people are manipulative occultists who want to control you with this B.S. They don't even believe this stuff. If you examine the whole breadth of history you will see a continual presence of people like this. The occult is all about manipulating the tier of idiots below you and this woman was created for that purpose alone.

Next lets start and thread about Aleister Crowley and how cool ritual masturbation and sex rites are. If he says it o.k. it must be cool.

All of the megalomaniacal manipulative groups through history have always had a Blavatsky for you. C'mon people. The Pharohs, Ceasar, Royalty, Occult secret societies all have so little respect for you but to feed you this kind of B.S. and everyone eats it up with a fork and knife. They want to create your faith so they can control you with some spiritual channeling and fortune telling.

This comment needs to be seriously considered by all who admire theosophy. I also read it and studied these writings during the 70s. Some body as enlightened as this woman would have never chosen Annie Bissant to follow after her. People should read wikipedia on Annie Bissant. At one time she was the most famous woman in the world. I considered doing a spec script on her but the more I investigated her life the more I could not do it. I am sure a lot of other women have come to that conclusion. In depth, she became an evil soul because above all she was seduced by power.

In short, she tried to destroy Mahatma Gandhi and she certainly ruinded the life of Krishnamurti who in 1929 publicly disavowed her plans for becoming the World Teacher and returned all the money collected by the Eastern Star Foundation. When the last of the money was returned she died.

It is very, very, very clear to me that both you write4change and Cartomancer have got no idea what so ever, what you speak of.
These sorts of arguments about Blavatsky and Besant, and I will include Alice Bailey, have been going on for years, usually by people who have not got past the cover of any book written by them, or others who have read some of it and now believe they know something based on heresay and Wiki.
I would venture to say that these writings are some of the finest on the planet today, and if you really 'got' any of the message in these writings you would inwardly know that any attemp to debunk or smear these writings either comes from ignorance or some other sinister motive. Which is yours?
The common 'smear' about Lucis Trust and the United Nations and the New World Order is the give away to peoples ignorance. If you read the "Externalisation of the Hierarchy" by Alice Bailey you will clearly realise, if you are not looking to concoct the proverbial straw man, that the New Age she talks about is EXACTLY the very ideal we are trying to achieve of living life together on earth in peace and harmony and love, and has got absolutely nothing to do with the 'New World Order' that the elite are attempting to enslave us in.

And just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I will also state on record that Michael Tsarion is a fraud in that he spins his messages with subtle untruths and misinformation, and if you never knew better you would believe he is the be all and end all of truth. Of course you would only know this if you really knew a bit more about Blavatsky, Besant and Bailey.

edit: corrected spelling of Besant

[Cartomancer]

I guess I'm just sinister because I don't agree with all of the contrived rhetoric. I must be a bad person if I disagree. Why don't you channel a solution or have a seance or something? If it has nothing to do with the NWO why does it sound so familiar? If you want to immerse yourself in this nonsense that is your choice. Even the Nazi's were trying to create a "living life together on earth in peace and harmony and love." Your response typifies what I am saying. Anyone who buys into this material becomes a holier than thou sycophant who feels comfortable accusing others of being sinister or ignorant because they don't believe the pile you are promoting.

If you want to believe that people can talk to the dead or people from another galaxy have at it. I simply question the motives of people who are promoting all of this as a way to a utopian world. All of Blavatsky's theories and philosophy are steeped in manipulative and fascist ideals. You can see it as touchy feely if you want to. This person did nothing but spew a bunch of Luciferian rhetoric which when viewed in the context of history by others who have promoted this philosophy comes of as being a manipulative way of controlling people. Many times this control dynamic extends to adherents attacking and eliminating those who disagree by suggesting they have sinister motives or some agenda.

I bet you have a snappy answer for Blavatsky being caught red handed rigging a seance. Oh I'm sure here enemies are simply lying about that?

I am through with this thread. I'll leave it to those who want to discuss Blavatsky in a more favorable light.

[Slorri]

Totally agree with you here FineFeather.
Strange outbursts by these two fellows, but perhaps that's what disinformation is all about.

Surely Blavatsky isn't easy to understand, but we do not need to spread any unjust fear just because of our own ignorance.

By the way, when you say Bissant are then not really saying Besant?

[Cartomancer]

What a paranoid you are. 'Oh no because I can channel entities and like Blavatsky who ever disagrees must be a 'disinfo' agent. Alert Alert everyone a disinfo agent is among us. Everyone stay away from Cartomancer he might tell the government what we are up to here on the public forum. He's only here to cloud the waters by challenging something we believe that we can't even prove. Oh no he's a bad guy. He's ignorant. We must purge the forum of anyone who disagrees by insulting them personally and accusing them of being a spy. Someone might tell on us for speaking to dead people. The government is so concerned about all of this and we are so important that they must infiltrate our truth. Its all part of my dastardly counter/counter disintelpro scheme to undermine all the Einsteins on Project Avalon. What a bad terrible person. ALERT ALERT!!!

[Sirius White]

I find it sad, that people can't just get past their own per-conceived notions of what is good and what is bad. And simply just LEARN. You might disagree with the whole of the material, but you may find GREAT truth in its body. Take the gems that resonate, and move on. This is the ability to discern with an open mind, and unlimited knowledge is at your hand when you do.

I may not fully agree with Blavatsky, but she has some serious wisdom in her material.

[Finefeather]

I bet you have a snappy answer for Blavatsky being caught red handed rigging a seance. Oh I'm sure here enemies are simply lying about that?

Here is my 'snappy' answer.....I did mention hearsay in my post and this is a classic. The known thing about truth writings, is that for some, if you put the truth under their noses they would not be able to believe it because it does not come from them and they don't hold the copyright. This was the driving force behind the attempt to debunk Blavatsky's work and the fact that it would lead the masses to freedom.
This story comes from Robert Todd Carrol, who wrote 'The Skeptic's Dictionary' here is the quote:

Blavatsky seems clearly to have had an overpowering personality. She was
knowledgeable of the tricks of spiritualists, having worked for one in Egypt,
and in the early days of the Theosophical Society seems clearly to have used
trickery to deceive others into thinking she had paranormal powers. She most
certainly faked the materialization of a tea cup and saucer, as well as written
messages from her Masters, presumably to enhance her credibility. She
certainly claimed to have paranormal experiences, but whether she really
believed she was clairvoyant or possessed psychic powers, I can't say.

Notice something? At one point he says "She most certainly faked.." and then goes on to conclude that "I can't say". He also uses words like "seems clearly".
Just one rambling paragraph with no source and him saying he "can't say".
Where does he get these stories from? Sounds like ignorance to me and coming from a skeptic who says a lot of things about 1000s of subjects which he must have collected to fill this huge book of his and can surely not be the expert he claims to be. You can judge for yourself by reading some of his expert stories here, some of them are really funny:
http://elearning.zaou.ac.zm:8060/Beliefs/Skepticism/The%20Skeptic's%20Dictionary%20-%20Robert%20Todd%20Carroll.pdf

Anyway, I have not the slightest bit of concern about your personal belief system, but I would be very interested in anything you can come up with which is real fact and can assist in the freedom of mankind from the deception of belief systems and dubious men.

[NancyV]

I read Alice Bailey, Blavatsky and Annie Besant beginning when I was very young, about 7. My grandparents, whom I spent many summers with in Yosemite where they lived, had a huge collection of metaphysical books and my grandfather was a Christian Science hands on healer in addition to being an engineer. My grandmother was an opera singer, very intelligent and metaphysically inclined. They got me enthused about metaphysics from as early as I can remember. Although they considered themselves to be basically Christian Scientists, they read everything they could about metaphysics and Eastern religions and spiritual practices.

I also revisited Blavatsky in my 20's and found her writings to be even more relevant for me at that age. I don't make a practice of believing anyone 100%, and even if I don't agree with their theories I like to know what their experiences have been and the conclusions they've come to. I've also read a lot of Crowley's writings and others opinions about him. My opinion of him is that he may have gotten progressively worse as he played more with evil. All of these occult and/or metaphysical teachers, practitioners or researchers seemed to have some good info and some strange and perhaps warped ideas. Some of them have undoubtedly become seduced by the temptations of power, money and/or fame. Some may be deliberately evil. They may also have been possessed or heavily influenced by powers they couldn't control or be protected from. Some may have become psychotic.

Basically until I left my body and began discovering things for mySELF, I could not refute others experiences or say that mine were different. I could only offer an uninformed opinion which may have come from someone else's opinion who probably didn't know much more than I did. I view Michael Tsarion in this same light. I find his various videos and writings to be fascinating, but I don't waste my time believing them 100%. Does he or any of the metaphysicists leave out crucial things, misinterpret things, change certain things to suit their own agendas? Undoubtedly so, just as many people do. But unless I perceive something to be LARGELY more negative or "evil" than positive or informative, I will usually read it and glean anything of value. Even when something appears to be more evil I often will read it so that I can be aware of it.

I've always liked this Sun Tzu quote:

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

Of course you may choose to have NO enemies and to not engage in battle, either physical or spiritual. That is a personal choice. I have most often engaged in the battle between good and evil (against evil) when here and in the astral. Of course that illusionary battle and the illusionary enemies only seem to exist in duality. We always have a choice as to how we play the game or whether we play that game or not. I appreciate others advice, but often it is based in fear and lack of knowledge about what is feared. So I muddle along quite happily, depending mostly on my own intuition and soul urges.

Those in this thread who are offering their viewpoints about the negative aspects of Blavatsky, Besant, Bailey and Tsarion are fighting the battle against what they perceive as evil and their intentions are good. They intend to help people avoid some of the pitfalls they've become aware of through their own research or experiences. Their viewpoints are appreciated and are a valid interpretation for them. They may help others to look more closely at something, which could be beneficial. But we all have different interpretations and tolerances. The mistakes are as valuable as the successes and often just as much fun.

[DNA]

Eight years ago, I finished a 14 month study, of her "Secret Doctrines" Vols, I and II. It is my firm belief, that her critics, haven't even read her work, or didn't understand that which they did read. I then went on to read dozens of books by her followers, at the 'Theosophical Society" of Pasadena, library.

Her work helped me immensely, to achieve and understand that which I now do.

Which is, if you're curious, explained on anotherbob's: "Adventures Out Of Body" thread, under "Spirituality".


Love, Peace, Humor
sirdipswitch

I agree, her stuff blows me away. It's crazy to think about, but her writing is just so amazing and polished, it's amazing to think that this was all done before type writers and what not, let alone computers. Speaking of blow me away,,,,I always had the suspicion that she was part of that whole victorian crew who used theinfamous snuff box for some granulated inspiration if you know what I mean. Her command of diction and her ability to find just the right word in a time where there was no google for finding an adequate synonym, yea, I think she was in that crowd. No sour grapes though.

Have you ever correlated all the data concerning Mt. Shasta and the whole theosophical movement? I have always been blown away by that and thought there was something to that.


Also, if you have wondered where HP LOVECRAFT gets a lot of his inspiration, look no further than Blavatsky. It has been said that his fabled tales of ancient grimoires,,,including the dreaded necronomican were modeled after Blavatsky's Secret Doctine and Isis Unvieled. :)

[DNA]

I would think twice about valuing a personage such as this. This person was a manufactured spiritualist that was part of a plan designed to institute a new religion for the new age. She and her handlers identified the perfect combonation of mumbo jumbo to mess with your head straight out of Jung and Freud.

She is espousing a touchy-feely new age channeling kind of faith that Hitler, Bormann, and Himmler just loved. This is the kind of 'faith' that is used to control your hypothalamus and psyche. Check into the Lucis trust and how it associated with the United Nations. Even Tsarion expresses doubt over this woman. This is the same crowd that is manufacturing the Maitreya for you.

Here you go. Prophets don't materialize organically but we're going to give you one that is manufactured just in time for the processional change of the zodiac. Don't make up your own mind or have your own faith. Let Blavatsky do it for you by channeling the Pliedans or who ever else you want to hear from. These people are manipulative occultists who want to control you with this B.S. They don't even believe this stuff. If you examine the whole breadth of history you will see a continual presence of people like this. The occult is all about manipulating the tier of idiots below you and this woman was created for that purpose alone.

Next lets start and thread about Aleister Crowley and how cool ritual masturbation and sex rites are. If he says it o.k. it must be cool.

All of the megalomaniacal manipulative groups through history have always had a Blavatsky for you. C'mon people. The Pharohs, Ceasar, Royalty, Occult secret societies all have so little respect for you but to feed you this kind of B.S. and everyone eats it up with a fork and knife. They want to create your faith so they can control you with some spiritual channeling and fortune telling.

Just for the record Blavatsky's creation mythos matches Edgar Cayce's so spot on that many folks claimed he ripped it off of her.
I don't think that is the case,,,I just think they are both correct.
You see my friend, all information can be ascertained as usefull through proper correlation,,,,and Blavatsky in my opinion correlates with some of the best data out there,,,as well as she being amazingly eloquent and easy to read.

And if you want to find some one to really blame,,,your folks should have looked to Elephias Levi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_Levi),,,,,Blavatsky's mentor.
This man was truelly amazing in so far as what I have read, and in many ways was Jordan Maxwell before Jordan Maxwell.

[enfoldedblue]

I find it sad, that people can't just get past their own per-conceived notions of what is good and what is bad. And simply just LEARN. You might disagree with the whole of the material, but you may find GREAT truth in its body. Take the gems that resonate, and move on. This is the ability to discern with an open mind, and unlimited knowledge is at your hand when you do.

I may not fully agree with Blavatsky, but she has some serious wisdom in her material.

This is a great answer... in my opinion. When I had my spiritual awakening in the early nineties...there was no internet and it was very difficult to find any quality information to help explain what I was experiencing..there was cetainly NOTHING in the mainsteam for me..other than a label of 'crazy'. Most of the new age material didn't resonate with me, but when I found the theosophists..I finally felt like I wasn't crazy and could begin to understand some of what I was experiencing.

Skip forward many years. A while ago as I researched the illuminati i discovered the links between the theosophical movement and lucifarianism, and briefly went into some fear, as these people had been some of my first teachers. However, after some deep contemplation it occured to me that it is irrelevant if they are 'good' or 'bad', because I certainly had not become evil, or suffered from exploring their material...I got out of it some information that helped me greatly at the time. I have come to realise that one of the favorite tactics of the illuminati is to associate themselves, and then attempt to influence important movements, people etc. These guys have their fingers in everything powerful, and if we were to reject all that they have touched (which is what they hope) we would lose some of the most profound aspects of our civilization. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[SilentFeathers]

It's a good read and study regardless of what you believe in IMO, that is if ya got a curious and open mind :)

[Arrowwind]

[This comment needs to be seriously considered by all who admire theosophy. I also read it and studied these writings during the 70s. Some body as enlightened as this woman would have never chosen Annie Bissant to follow after her. People should read wikipedia on Annie Bissant. At one time she was the most famous woman in the world. I considered doing a spec script on her but the more I investigated her life the more I could not do it. I am sure a lot of other women have come to that conclusion. In depth, she became an evil soul because above all she was seduced by power.

In short, she tried to destroy Mahatma Gandhi and she certainly ruinded the life of Krishnamurti who in 1929 publicly disavowed her plans for becoming the World Teacher and returned all the money collected by the Eastern Star Foundation. When the last of the money was returned she died.


I have come to really appreciate this woman. Many ofthe discussions we have on this forum

are possible because of her life work. You don't have to agree with everythingput forth but
it all helps you to come to your own self.



All of the megalomaniacal manipulative groups through history have always had aBlavatsky for you. C'mon people. The Pharaohs, Caesar, Royalty, Occult secretsocieties all have so little respect for you but to feed you this kind of B.S.and everyone eats it up with a fork and knife. They want to create your faithso they can control you with some spiritual channeling and fortunetelling.
I think the control intended is much greater than just spiritual channelingand fortune telling. It is much much bigger. Consider her position on the United Nations.


I find it sad, thatpeople can't just get past their own per-conceived notions of what is good andwhat is bad. And simply just LEARN. You might disagree with the whole of thematerial, but you may find GREAT truth in its body. Take the gems thatresonate, and move on. This is the ability to discern with an open mind, andunlimited knowledge is at your hand when you do.



I may not fully agree with Blavatsky, but she has some serious wisdom in hermaterial.


She is espousing atouchy-feely new age channeling kind of faith that Hitler, Bormann, and Himmlerjust loved. This is the kind of 'faith' that is used to control yourhypothalamus and psyche. Check into the Lucis trust and how it associated withthe United Nations. Even Tsarion expresses doubt over this woman. This is thesame crowd that is manufacturing the Maitreya for you.



Here you go. Prophets don't materialize organically but we're going to give youone that is manufactured just in time for the processional change of thezodiac. Don't make up your own mind or have your own faith. Let Blavatsky do itfor you by channeling the Pliedans or who ever else you want to hear from.These people are manipulative occultists who want to control you with this B.S.They don't even believe this stuff. If you examine the whole breadth of historyyou will see a continual presence of people like this. The occult is all aboutmanipulating the tier of idiots below you and this woman was created for thatpurpose alone.

All of the megalomaniacal manipulative groups through history have always had aBlavatsky for you. C'mon people. The Pharaohs, Caesar, Royalty, Occult secretsocieties all have so little respect for you but to feed you this kind of B.S.and everyone eats it up with a fork and knife. They want to create your faithso they can control you with some spiritual channeling and fortunetelling.

This comment needs to be seriously considered by all who admire theosophy. Ialso read it and studied these writings during the 70s. Some body asenlightened as this woman would have never chosen Annie Bissant to follow afterher. People should read wikipedia on Annie Bissant. At one time she was themost famous woman in the world. I considered doing a spec script on her but themore I investigated her life the more I could not do it. I am sure a lot ofother women have come to that conclusion. In depth, she became an evil soulbecause above all she was seduced by power.

In short, she tried to destroy Mahatma Gandhi and she certainly ruined the lifeof Krishnamurti who in 1929 publicly disavowed her plans for becoming the WorldTeacher and returned all the money collected by the Eastern Star Foundation.When the last of the money was returned she died.


This is a great answer... in my opinion. When I had my spiritual awakening inthe early nineties...there was no internet and it was very difficult to findany quality information to help explain what I was experiencing..there wascetainly NOTHING in the mainsteam for me..other than a label of 'crazy'. Mostof the new age material didn't resonate with me, but when I found thetheosophists..I finally felt like I wasn't crazy and could begin to understandsome of what I was experiencing.

Skip forward many years. A while ago as I researched the illuminati idiscovered the links between the theosophical movement and lucifarianism, andbriefly went into some fear, as these people had been some of my firstteachers. However, after some deep contemplation it occured to me that it isirrelevant if they are 'good' or 'bad', because I certainly had not becomeevil, or suffered from exploring their material...I got out of it someinformation that helped me greatly at the time. I have come to realise that oneof the favorite tactics of the illuminati is to associate themselves, and thenattempt to influence important movements, people etc. These guys have theirfingers in everything powerful, and if we were to reject all that they havetouched (which is what they hope) we would lose some of the most profoundaspects of our civilization. Let's not throw the baby out with thebathwater.

Interesting conversation.

I am more familiar with Alice Bailey that Blavatsky, but I certainly am no expert. I’ve read perhaps half of Baileys works.. There was a time when it was all consuming to me.

My opinion of it now is what I would not have anticipated to develop back in the days when I was doing the reading.
The Bailey theme is to promote a one world government and society where people are conscious and dedicated to serving.
That is all good and well. .... but only good and well if people evolve into it according to their own free will and serving a program that opens the heart and awareness into love.

The initiation of the League of Nations and later the United Nations waswhat she talked about in great length.
We have all seen what that has come to. A corrupt institution that weighs the value of life according to the natural resources that the ground under individual’s feet is worth.

From the United Nations we have the development of a number of institutions that are driving us towards a one world order... NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, mounds and mounds of international trade agreements that we never got to vote on, and last but not least the World Health Organization who clearly , in my mind has not the interest of health of individuals but in supporting pharmaceutical company profits and controlling populations for eventual elimination or takeover of their lands.

Although it may be altruistic to conceive of a planet nation that is all good and concerned for evolution on multiple levels, clearly we are not advanced enough to bring this forth without force and the disregard for personal and national will. Hence NATO uses its military might to destroy whatever nation they believe to stand in the way of this "evolution"

In our own nation, (USA) to pave the way for the new world government we have constructed over 600 concentration camps to contend with the dissenters.... although you may disagree with the word "we", we did pay for it.
We have the UN blue hats ready to enter on our shores, and the military havealready been advised that this will happen on American soil.
We have the government on our necks for every business and soon to be health issue that we are immersed in.
We have a voting system that is illegal and unjust and corrupted to its very core with the advancements of computerized voting. We have politicians that are bought and paid for and who do not represent the people but do the biddings of hidden groups.
We have a judicial system that flirts and dallies with private prison organizations that has made the USA the largest prison nation in the world

We have an agricultural system controlled by corporations responsible forthe deaths of many, the destruction of soils and the imprisonment of mother earths seed from the world that cries for an honest crop.... all condoned bythe United Nations.

Spirituality and soul advancement in my mind cannot be institutionalized.The only thing that can be instutionalized in my mind that is of any benefit are groups that truly serve to open hearts and consciousness and alleviate suffering so that an individual is free to do their spiritual work and make a just living. So far Alice Baileys predictions (and could I venture to say,agenda and implementation?) has lead us on a path to many wars and themilitarization of the planet. Something in her program is either going verywrong or very right, depending on where you stand. I can only wonder what she and the Tibetan Master would think... but alas, all is silent on that front.

She predicted that the USA would decline and China would lead... we are clearly heading in that direction as China buys up land, gold, buildings and water rights all around the planet. Bailey has made many predictions that have come true. Clearly she has connections with the Akashic record and to see and to prophesize and the ability to move energy towards goals. I just wonder if things are really working out as well as anticipated and if the Master (her Master) is pleased.

It seems to me that we are about to be forced into a new world order,regardless of how we feel about it, regardless of our individual rights, our national constitutions, regardless of our religious or spiritual beliefs...

but the workings of it seem to me to be very dark and deadly with no concern for individuals... but of course Bailey will not have concern for individuals because she espouses the "group soul" of which she claims we are all a partof and to which we must acquiesce.

In the group soul concept the individual gives way to the "greatergood" at best or the “greater force” at worst.

So due to these observations and others that I have not written, I leftBailey behind yet over the years fully sensing that this Bailey game plan is so parallel to what is going on now.. . The Lucifer trust is the order of light and the fallen angle ofgod whose work is based largely in science.. and we all know that our current paradigm of science is filled with corruption... and somewhere along the line they left love and compassion behind in my view. I guess I will not give up my individuality for the group soul without a fight. It is my belief that I Am the point of light of an individual soul destined for and already within eternal living life, as a creator soul, not a puppet or a cog in a wheel to a planetary plan that is to be forced down my/our throats.

Some have said the humanity is in bondage on a planetary scale. The Bailey material clearly delinates what this bondage is, all wrapped up in glamour and illusions of service and good will, in my view anyway, so far all we have been handed is a plate of bull**it. A NWO can either be done with love or it can be done with light and Lucifer is of light. Where do you see the love?

[Cartomancer]

Thank you Arrowind. You said it better that I am capable of. On paper the U.N. seems like a good deal but the reality is far from it. Someday, far in the future the world may come to the point where everyone decides to be one. Not be forced or manipulated into by a contrived 'faith' that does nothing but facilitate the take over.

To all the Blavatskyites: I understand the attraction and the finer points of what she is saying and I'm sure those are the parts you value. No one (me) is saying that you are bad evil people. I respect you for your values and thoughts and am glad we have a place like this to debate and ponder. No intentional disinfo here. I really feel that there is nothing going on here that anyone would want to disrupt for political reasons.

[Tarka the Duck]

Does anyone know much about William Emmette Coleman? I don't, and there's not much info around about him but...
In 1853 he published the results of 3 years of research into Blavatsky's writings - and concludes that her work was plagiarised. It seems he has painstakingly provided references for everything she wrote.

"During the past three years I have made a more or less exhaustive analysis of the contents of the writings of Madame H. P. Blavatsky; and I have traced the sources whence she derived - and mostly without credit being given - nearly the whole of their subject-matter."

The research is called The Sources of Madame Blavatsky's Writings and can be read at
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/blavatskyplagiarisms07jul05.shtml

and he finishes with this final paragraph...

"There is not a single dogma or tenet in theosophy, nor any detail of moment in the multiplex and complex concatenation of alleged revelations of occult truth in the teachings of Madame Blavatsky and the pretended adepts, the source of which cannot be pointed out in the world’s literature. From first to last, their writings are dominated by a duplex plagiarism - plagiarism in idea, and plagiarism in language."

[Finefeather]

Does anyone know much about William Emmette Coleman? I don't, and there's not much info around about him but...
In 1853 he published the results of 3 years of research into Blavatsky's writings - and concludes that her work was plagiarised. It seems he has painstakingly provided references for everything she wrote.

"During the past three years I have made a more or less exhaustive analysis of the contents of the writings of Madame H. P. Blavatsky; and I have traced the sources whence she derived - and mostly without credit being given - nearly the whole of their subject-matter."

The research is called The Sources of Madame Blavatsky's Writings and can be read at
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/blavatskyplagiarisms07jul05.shtml

and he finishes with this final paragraph...

"There is not a single dogma or tenet in theosophy, nor any detail of moment in the multiplex and complex concatenation of alleged revelations of occult truth in the teachings of Madame Blavatsky and the pretended adepts, the source of which cannot be pointed out in the world’s literature. From first to last, their writings are dominated by a duplex plagiarism - plagiarism in idea, and plagiarism in language."


I would first like to state that plagiarism is almost impossible to be 'not guilty' of in our lives. From the moment we start speaking as a child we start imitating others and probably towards the last stages of our life 75% (guess) of our speech can be technically proved to be some form of plagiarism. When we finish school do we make reference to the fact that 2+2=4 comes from some exact named person? There are certain basic truths in life which are accepted as been part of the collective of the human mind and we have all contributed to it, even if you may not be aware of this fact. In the same vain spiritual truths are abundant in various writings and it is the ability to accept or reject what fits into your current level of understanding of the subject.
Blavatsky was very aware of this, and what the writer of this article fails to do is quote the 'Preface' of her books, for example in the forward of her book "The Secret Doctrine" we find this, written by her:


These truths are in no sense put forward as a revelation .. nor does the author
claim the position of a revealer of mystic lore, now made public for the first
time in the world 's history. For what is contained in this work is to be found
scattered throughout thousands of volumes embodying the scriptures of the
great Asiatic and early European religions, hidden under glyph and symbol,
and hitherto left unnoticed because of this veil. What is now attempted is to
gather the oldest tenets together and to make of them one harmonious and
unbroken whole. The sole advantage which the writer has over her predecessors,
is that she need not resort to personal speculations and theories. For this
work is a partial statement of what she herself has been taught by more
advanced students, supplemented, in a few details only, by the results of her
own study and observation. The publication of many of the facts herein stated
has been rendered necessary by the wild and fanciful speculations in which
many Theosophists and students of mysticism have indulged, during the last
few years, in their endeavour to, as they imagined, work out a complete system
of thought from the few facts previously communicated to them.
It is needless to explain that this book is not the Secret Doctrine in its
entirety, but a select number of fragments of its fundamental tenets, special
attention being paid to some facts which have been seized upon by various
writers, and distorted out of all resemblance to the truth.

source here: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-0-co.htm#preface

So you should, by using your intuition and common sense, ask yourself what the author of this article is actually trying to achieve. There are many who find it easy and convenient to find ways to satisfy their own lack of inner knowing. They associate every organisation and person who they deem sinister, purely from lack of knowing the truth, with some dark force out to get them. The real truth is stranger than you might imagine.
There is only one way you should treat information which you receive and that is by seeking the authentication inside of you, or verifying it with your own life experience. If it does not ring true leave it for now. One thing is certain all truths keep coming back at us time and time again until we are ready inside to see the message.

[Billy]

I personally think The controllers have succeeded in creating fear within those who have awakened within humanity through the catch phrases like "New world order" or "One world order" To be united as one, retaining individuality through Love,respect, harmony and compassion.

All we have to remember is that Love will never force or ORDER Love upon another.

My tuppence worth after reading the responses on this thread.

Peace

[Cartomancer]

I think you weren't referring to me but coincidentally I just recently wrote an article entitled 'Mt. Shasta and the origins of the New Age.' It is available in True History Journal but will eventually be published online for free.

Mt. Shasta is a place that has intentionally been given a mystique that really originated from nothing but fiction and Channeled material. All of the hollow earth lore didn't even surface until the late nineteenth century only after that concept became a fad from the theories of Alexander Von Humboldt and Symmes expedition (that never even happened). My research indicates that the Bohemian Club of San Francisco had a huge amount of influence and meddling in the lore of that area. They may have designated it to be a spiritual axis then set about creating all of the stories and mysticism associated.

The person most responsible for the propagation of the Shasta mythos is likely California author and poet Joaquin Miller. Miller actually sought out and bought property in Oakland that was exactly 180 degrees due south of the peak of Mt. Shasta. At this spot on his property Miller built a pyramid to establish his personal axis. Similar rock inscriptions are present near Millers old home near Shasta and also on his property in Oakland. These petroglyphs seem to have theosophical themes.

There is ample evidence that many different occult groups have designated Shasta as a special place including Rosicrucian, theosophists, Masons, and Bohemian Club. The I Am Activity and so on. The legend of St. Germain showing up on the slopes of Shasta cemented that place's status in the New Age.

[noprophet]

I found the work of HPB and Besant fascinating upon entering the occult. More than anything you have to learn that none of these - or any - sincere disciplines are wrong. We can only tell one story, we can only use the symbols we have already and recombine them in so many ways. Things that gain "following" (flow) are self-evident that their is an offering being made that is being taken up. Yes this can be manipulated, but manipulated to far and no one picks them up at all. So yes, anything with a large following has to have pillars of truth in it [ In My Opinion]. This does not mean everything that has a following is full of literal truths, but I sure as hell will bet you can find a subjective truth in its followers that is usually functional in some way.

Anyway, rather than arguing here-say and reputation; why not pop-open the secret doctrine (http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd-hp.htm) and criticize the text directly.

Plenty of room for quotes.

[NancyV]

I think you weren't referring to me but coincidentally I just recently wrote an article entitled 'Mt. Shasta and the origins of the New Age.' It is available in True History Journal but will eventually be published online for free.

Mt. Shasta is a place that has intentionally been given a mystique that really originated from nothing but fiction and Channeled material. All of the hollow earth lore didn't even surface until the late nineteenth century only after that concept became a fad from the theories of Alexander Von Humboldt and Symmes expedition (that never even happened). My research indicates that the Bohemian Club of San Francisco had a huge amount of influence and meddling in the lore of that area. They may have designated it to be a spiritual axis then set about creating all of the stories and mysticism associated.

The person most responsible for the propagation of the Shasta mythos is likely California author and poet Joaquin Miller. Miller actually sought out and bought property in Oakland that was exactly 180 degrees due south of the peak of Mt. Shasta. At this spot on his property Miller built a pyramid to establish his personal axis. Similar rock inscriptions are present near Millers old home near Shasta and also on his property in Oakland. These petroglyphs seem to have theosophical themes.

There is ample evidence that many different occult groups have designated Shasta as a special place including Rosicrucian, theosophists, Masons, and Bohemian Club. The I Am Activity and so on. The legend of St. Germain showing up on the slopes of Shasta cemented that place's status in the New Age.
Do you think it's possible that a place can have enhanced energies simply because more people believe it to be so and/or tell others it IS so? Having lived near Mt. Shasta for many years, in Ashland Oregon, and also in Shasta for about a half a year, I can say that I had quite a few awesome experiences when I went to the mountain. I'm thinking that just putting myself in the mindset that magical things will happen and raising my vibrational frequency, may be enough in itself to see into another dimension and have other awesome experiences.

I had many friends who had incredible experiences in Mt. Shasta. Yes, I guess at that time we were all sort of the New Age types. Most of them still are, while I rarely got stuck in one mode for long. But having been to many so called "power" spots in America, North and South, and a few in Europe, the experiences I always have were similar in all those spots. I almost always see into another dimension/time that is still existing and I am awake and still seeing this dimension, sort of a bi-location type state.

I'm sure you're right that a lot of the lore has been created or enhanced either by those with something to gain, or by those who may have certain experiences which could be classified as channeling or maybe even a psychotic or delusional experience which would only relate to them personally. I don't believe any channeled information, although I don't totally reject it 100% either, for that very reason. It's a personal experience and interpretation from someone else. I can only KNOW that which I experience, and even that is all an illusion if we are being perfectly honest. It may seem totally real to me but I have no business attempting to make it true for anyone else. I can share what I've experienced on earth and in other dimensions, but I never expect it to be the same for others.

[Cartomancer]

Yes I do believe places like Mt. Shasta may have some effect on you. Miller called Mt. Shasta a Cathedral of Nature and I would be forced to agree with him. The people who are trying to cloud the waters want you to believe their version of what it is. I always feel uplifted and invigorated when I visit Mt. Shasta. I think that the creation of temples and talismanic places of importance has the same effect. If you build it they will come. I think the energy comes from the creation of the place itself and the beliefs people instill in them. Here is a cathedral they didn't build and they want to control it just the same.

Also I don't think it is wrong to be a "New Age Type." It is great that people are searching. I just see from a practical perspective that there are lots of land mines out there for you when you begin you search. The energy you have invested in what you may or may not believe is important to those that want to decieve and manipulate you. No one is hiding this either. Its all there in the history if you care to take a look beyond what you are being told by those who already believe the things they are telling you. Miller is a good example for me. I kept plugging away at finding about his personal history and it revealed his pyramid and his value of the mountain. He traveled the courts of Europe just like St. Germain and Dr. John Dee. He is a Bohemian Club member. His body was burned on a funeral pyre on his property next to his pyramid in Oakland in a ceremony held by the Bohemian Club. He more than any other started the entire mythos of Mt. Shasta and shaped the character of California in the decades to come. Events and movements like the Beat Generation and the Psychedelic '60's were a direct result of his influence. All of this is easy to see by stepping beyond the bounds of channeled material and New Age philosophy and looking at history.

All of the suggestions by people to weed through Blavatsky for the gems is a legitimate point of view. The same applies to the mythos of Mt. Shasta or the Great Pyramid. I tend towards not believing the earth energies theories about these places. I think its all about our perception of what a temple or power spot is supposed to represent even before we visit it. Kind of like a commercial that invites you to buy a product.

I am a little hard on channeled material. I am sure there may be gifted people in the world I just haven't met one yet. I am willing to listen and value what is being said even if I don't fully buy the way the info is being presented.

[Arrowwind]

I find it interesting Cartomancer, that you think the new age movement could be accredited to one person...if that is what you are saying?
I view it more like a universal flowering of consciousness that happened in the 60s and 70s
and I attribute it to several occurances that were in the makes even before that time.
but the explosion, the culmination of the fruit of the Hundredith Monkey effect happened in the 60s and 70s...
Shasta to me was just a small way station... to a much larger evolution, that by the way, is still in progress.

oh, and in the telling of your shasta tale, does it include all the UFO activity experienced there?

[Cartomancer]

I find it interesting Cartomancer, that you think the new age movement could be accredited to one person...if that is what you are saying?
I view it more like a universal flowering of consciousness that happened in the 60s and 70s
and I attribute it to several occurances that were in the makes even before that time.
but the explosion, the culmination of the fruit of the Hundredith Monkey effect happened in the 60s and 70s...
Shasta to me was just a small way station... to a much larger evolution, that by the way, is still in progress.

oh, and in the telling of your shasta tale, does it include all the UFO activity experienced there?

No. I think the New Age movement was intentionally started by a group of people that included Joaquin Miller. The lore surrounding Mt. Shasta includes some of the earliest channeled material published in the context it is viewed today. I think there have been spiritual groups of people actively jockeying for control of the New Age for at least two hundred years. The creation of the Mormon faith may have also been a response to the the new age. Many P. Hall writes of a Brotherhood of the Quest though he has a lot of 'facts' that can't be found anywhere but in his writing. They knew the change in the age was approaching and they all tried to create new faiths to match this event. I think there are occult (secret) orders of people whose purpose are to institute new faiths that relate to sun worship at the change of each age. This group of people see the establishment of Axes Mundi or spiritual monuments as part of the process of instituting their ideals.

The version of the New Age you see in the '60's and 70's is a direct result of this. "This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius...............Aquarius." In my last post I mentioned how Miller was the source of the Beat Generation and the 60's scene that developed where he spent a great part of his life. This man had a commune on his property in the late 1800's.

Really what is interesting is the presence of figures like Dr. John Dee, Sir Francis Bacon, Mesmer, Caliogstro, St. Germain and others. These kinds of figures are always wrapped up in the creation of mythology and spiritualism that breaks the bounds of 'normal' faith. These men seem almost to have been intentionally trying to shape the outcome of the new age long before the modern version of it while at the same time appearing to dispute the status quo while secretly supporting it.

Now with that in mind this same concept is at work in the intellectual minefields we are all trying to wend our way through. Really if you look around at the personages we all listen to on Project Camelot and Coast to Coast there are definitely a few who fit this bill. Who is the St. Germain or Mesmer (where the word mesmerize comes from) of today? They are definitely here and they have been here since the beginning of history. To me Madame Blavatsky also would fit the above description perfectly.

I think the truth about whatever the UFO phenomenon is is being used by this same crowd to cloud the waters even further.

[DNA]

I think you weren't referring to me but coincidentally I just recently wrote an article entitled 'Mt. Shasta and the origins of the New Age.' It is available in True History Journal but will eventually be published online for free.

Mt. Shasta is a place that has intentionally been given a mystique that really originated from nothing but fiction and Channeled material. All of the hollow earth lore didn't even surface until the late nineteenth century only after that concept became a fad from the theories of Alexander Von Humboldt and Symmes expedition (that never even happened). My research indicates that the Bohemian Club of San Francisco had a huge amount of influence and meddling in the lore of that area. They may have designated it to be a spiritual axis then set about creating all of the stories and mysticism associated.

The person most responsible for the propagation of the Shasta mythos is likely California author and poet Joaquin Miller. Miller actually sought out and bought property in Oakland that was exactly 180 degrees due south of the peak of Mt. Shasta. At this spot on his property Miller built a pyramid to establish his personal axis. Similar rock inscriptions are present near Millers old home near Shasta and also on his property in Oakland. These petroglyphs seem to have theosophical themes.

There is ample evidence that many different occult groups have designated Shasta as a special place including Rosicrucian, theosophists, Masons, and Bohemian Club. The I Am Activity and so on. The legend of St. Germain showing up on the slopes of Shasta cemented that place's status in the New Age.

I started a thread on Mt. Shasta here in hope that folks would share some of their findings and correlations. I personally don't share your opinions on the matter. I have found some strange and pertinent information that would lead me to believe there is in fact something to the legends associated with Mt. Shasta.

The Origins of Mt. Shasta (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?23237-The-origins-of-mount-shasta)


I think the person most responsible for putting Mount Shasta on the map in terms of spirituality is Frederick Spencer Oliver who channelled a being called Phylos the Thibetan and wrote a sensational story called "A Dweller on Two Planets by Phylos the Thibetan" that chronicled the life of Phylos in Atlantean times and the last incarnation of Phylos in 19th century North America as a gold miner. This book was finshed by Oliver in 1886. 126 years ago.



Oliver's work is amazing in my opinion.
The retelling of the life of Phylos in Atlantis included the description of antigravity air ships, submarine craft, television, wireless telephony, arial water generators, air conditioners, high speed rail, and atomic telescopes.
If Jules Vern and HG Wells get so much credit for making such prediction 20 and 30 years later, I think we have to give Oliver some credit here as well.

Oliver recounts Phylos's last life in the 19th century as a gold miner occult student of "Theo-Christic Adepts".
Oliver then chronicles Phylos's travels to Venus/Hisperia via his subtle body while his physical body resided in a physical temple inside of Mt. Shasta.
It is this mention of Mt. Shasta that started the hoopla.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I personally don't know what to think about the subsequent arrival of the Saint Germaine movement.
I don't put nearly as much stock in the subsequent Saint Germaine material that started coming out of Mt. Shasta.
But what the heck do I know.
Here it is.




1. Has anyone read “The Return of the Magi” by Maurice Magre, pub. 1931? It consists of six historical accounts of legends of mystic ‘magi’, one of which is “Saint Germain”. It seems that this book and some theosophists of the time were expecting an actual physical appearance by this Saint Germain. Strangely enough, there are reported APPEARANCES of Saint Germain on Mt. Shasta in the 1930s.



Is this just a case of folks attributing a label on to something that is in their collective unconsciousness?
Did a figure appear in the 1930s on the slopes of Mt. Shasta and the name Saint Germain was stamped on the manifestation to make sense of it? Or was it Saint Germain? Or was it bullcrap? Or was it mysterious bullcrap?:p



2. It seems an author by the name of Mary Lee wrote a few books about Mt.Shasta while living there “The Brazen Door”, “The courageous Khan” and “Adventuring with trees” published before 1937. These books are not easy to get a hold of but here is a quote “No longer living in material bodies, it becomes obvious that the masters have no need of material things, for example, those articles which are exchangeable for gold nuggets in the shops of the city of mount Shasta and McCloud, as has been erroneously reported to have occurred. Those reporting such tales were either themselves misinformed, deluded, tricked by their own fancies, exploited by brother man, or were themselves not innocent in the exploitation of the credulous”.



So, it seems we have another example of referring to the SHASTONIANS, (that was mine) as being ascended masters of some kind.



3.Mah-Atman-Amsumata(pseudonym) or Norman R Westfall wrote “Lord Maitreya or The New Golden Age”, 1942.
Mr. Westfall considered himself to be in contact with Saint Germain and other ascended masters on the slopes of Mt. Shasta. He retells the “higher laws of life” as told to him by the SHASTONIANS, what these laws are I have not the foggiest idea, I would love to know.
One of the stories penned by Westfall is called “King of the Lemurians” and I presume this is about the Lemurians as described by Madame Blavatasky.
Mt. Shasta is mentioned throughout this book, as for example: "Mt. Shasta, 'The Mountain of God' in America, is indeed the greatest focus of Light in the Western World at this time and will remain until the Great Work planned by the Great White Lodge is completed here for the in-coming and establishing of the New Golden Age". Again with the ascended master thing.



4.Godfre King Ray pseudonym of Guy Warren Ballard, penned “The Saint Germain Series”, pub, 1934. Considered to be the single most important book about the legend of Saint Germain’s appearance at Mount Shasta. Ballard was the founder of the “I AM” movement.

[Cartomancer]

That's o.k. if you disagree. I understand. Always enjoy your point of view. All of Olivers ideas were echoed in a later book that was written by the head of the Rosicrucian Order in San Jose. He wrote that book under a pen name composed of an amalgam of his name. You should read my article (link below) There would still be a lot of info there for you even if you don't like my analysis. Thanks.

Miller is an important figure in Mt. Shasta and the New Age that you are not supposed to know about. They don't care if you know who Oliver is. I also started a thread about all of this a few months ago entitled "Mt. Shasta and origins of the New Age."

Here's a link to the article I wrote in True History Journal. I just reposted it for free on my blog Survivalcell.blogspot.com (http://survivalcell.blogspot.com). Go to page index on top right. It's the last one on the bottom. Click

Here's a link to the other thread I started entitled "origins of the new age."

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45415-Origins-of-the-New-Age

Joaquin Miller lived in the Mt. Shasta area as early as 1855 and likely is part of the same group who influenced Oliver and other 'mystics' to write about Mt. Shasta as a hollow earth entrance etc. This is right around the same time Alexander Von Humboldt put forth a theory that there were hollows at each pole indicated by the dynamics of the Magnetosphere. Humboldt later recanted his theory. I'm telling you if you objectively look at this is was all contrived. If you want to believe a source like Oliver and the other Theosophists that created this myth over what the actual events dictate such is your right. Nearly every incident I site happened long before Oliver wrote of his experience.

[Arrowwind]

Here can be found some of the writings of Joaquin Miller: http://www.siskiyous.edu/library/shasta/

So Cartomancer, do you think the new age got out of hand? There seems to be so many different factions, like looking into a faceted crystal. Is this intended caos?

Ive never gotten into the St Germaine thing but I once lived with someone who was. Ive not really encountered it much outside of California.

Did these folks, these iniatitors of the movement as you claim them, have a plan for the unfoldment of Yoga in California? I think the arrival of Paramahansa Yogananda had a huge impact. On the alters of Yogananda devotees you often find a series of photos bound together that includes Yogananda, his teacher Shri Yuteswar, Jesus, Sainte Germaine and one other,, and I am not recalling,,, I want to say Babaji, the original Babaji, not the teacher in Santa Cruz who is affectionately called Babaji.

I just read your article and this is a clip from it.

" During the Revolutionary War this form of Masonry may have been favored in the United States of America. Records and correspondence indicate that St. Germain played a central role in the creation of the Rite of Strict Observance and may have influenced its development in the newly formed United States.

This is amazing in that Thomas Jefferson, Joseph Smith, and Alexander Von Humboldt may have been members of this order. All of these men were contemporaries of St. Germain. "

I lived in Salt Lake City for a time and was so surprised to see a rather large and ornate Masonic Temple on the same street as the central Mormon Temple. Its archetectual emblishments include very Egyptian sphynx like people and other Eqyptian like carvings. This lodge was started in 1866, so it would have been the work of Brigham Young, who of course inherited his power and leadership of the church from Joseph Smith. Nothing happened in Salt Lake at that time without Brigham Youngs' approval and support. The new lodge building errected in 1925, also I seriously doubt could have come about with out Mormon approval, especially at that point in history, Mormons ruled Salt Lake for the most part. Mormons and Freemasonry go hand in hand... and I was so surprised to learn this some time ago. Modern Mormons in general do not talk of Masonry and often my questions to them resulted in blank expressions. Guess they just dont care to talk about it, and is is largely suppose to be a secret order, the internal workings and membership anyway is not public record.


http://www.wasatchlodge.org/wp-content/themes/neo-classical/images/content/sc.gif

Salt Lake Masonic Temple (http://www.wasatchlodge.org/publish/salt-lake-masonic-temple/)

http://www.wasatchlodge.org/assets/images/temple/slctemplefront.jpgThe Salt Lake City Masonic Temple has been the most publically visible jewel of Freemasonry in Utah for the last 79 years.
Located along South Temple, the egyptian faced building is the seventh home

[Cartomancer]

St. Germain was not a saint. This was his name. Just to be clear. The "I Am Activity" of Mt. Shasta belives St. Germain is the immortal extension of Jesus Christ and Sir Francis Bacon and ultimately Guy Ballard the founder of the faith. St. Germain (Germain=Brother in latin) was simply amazing given even the most conservative description. Writings from the Royal court of Louis the XV and Louis XVI indicate that he was an admiral in the Russian Navy among many other titles. He spent time in the royal court of England and Germany as well. He is suspected to be a member of the Medici family and Bohemian Royalty. The diary of Marie Antionette herself states that St. Germain warned her and the king of the coming revolution long before it happened. St. Germain was known to have 'trained' mystics Caliogstro and Mesmer in his technique. It is said that he could create gems and repair gems with flaws via a secret process. He was an alchemist in the gnostic sense.

St. Germain started the world trust which sounds strangely familiar to what is going on in the Drake/Fulford/Wilcock saga. It's like they took this concept and are rehashing it again to get us all exicited about our debts being nullified while they continue to screw us. The world trust was a fund that was supposed to pay off all the public's debt by the year 2000 or so. The same hidden funds carrot that is being waved in front of the caring public now. Overall St. Germain does come off as being an admirable member of the elite who seemed to care about average people as well. He created the Order of Strict Observance of which Prussian Royalty including Alexander Von Humboldt were members. Joseph Smith the creator of Mormon and Thomas Jefferson were said to be members of the Knights Templar OSO American Rite. This order was seemingly obsessed with grail quests, biblical relics, and the ordered arrangement of monuments in a talismanic manner.

I don't think its intended chaos or got out of hand. More like trying to dictate what you believe by hijacking a cathedral of nature for their own reasons. These people believe they have a right or destiny to do this. Why is it called New Age Religion? Because they want a new faith for the coming age of Aquarius. They are building a new faith like there has been a group of people whose mission it is to do so.

All of the eastern influences you mention came about via Thesophy and Madame Blavatsky. The headquarters for world Theosophy is in India. The theosophist's or influenced beliefs may be the reason why the Nazi's selected the swastika as their symbol. The "I Am Activity" of Guy and Edna Ballard seems to have been the first to propagate the concept of the ascended master. Some people point to Yoga as a Luciferian activity. I think it looks like good exercise.

Q: Who is the modern day St. Germain?

A: Who is telling us there is a bunch of hidden gold that will pay all of our debts and change the world for the better?

[Arrowwind]

Well? Who?

and I hope you viewed all of my post for I edited it likely after you read it adding a bunch of stuff.

It seems to me that the New Age movement is rather caotic. So many beliefs, so many ways of doing things... and now out of it a developing staunch individualism due to recognition of spiritual autonomy from governing agency... which in essence screws all the groups that would want to control. Staunch spiritual autonomy is not something they would like, I can only assume.

Somehow over the years the idea of St. Germain has developed into an acutal saint like person, or ascended master. In Catholic religion many saints are quite like ascended masters with extreme powers to create and distroy, fulfill prayers, move in and out of this reality and to communicate directly with god.

seems to me that Paramahansa Yogananda had a lot to contribute to the new age movement in the US

¤=[Post Update]=¤



A: Who is telling us there is a bunch of hidden gold that will pay all of our debts and change the world for the better?

OK. Im waiting. No bathroom breaks please

[Arrowwind]

[Do you think it's possible that a place can have enhanced energies simply because more people believe it to be so and/or tell others it IS so? Having lived near Mt. Shasta for many years, in Ashland Oregon, and also in Shasta for about a half a year, I can say that I had quite a few awesome experiences when I went to the mountain. I'm thinking that just putting myself in the mindset that magical things will happen and raising my vibrational frequency, may be enough in itself to see into another dimension and have other awesome experiences.

I had many friends who had incredible experiences in Mt. Shasta. .

I say absolutly yes to this question. Energy follows intent. As simple as that.

We must remember, that we are all capable of having our own exhaulted experience, we are all capable of calling in the devas and earth spirits, we are all capable of contacting saints and ascended masters, we are all capable of seeing UFOs and ORBS, even if we have not yet. Mount Shasta is the place we as a collective humanity have decided that it can and will occur and energy follows intent. We have made it a sacred mountain, even though all mountains are sacred in the creators pallet, we have collectively focused our intent (and perhaps starting with Joaquin or perhaps some Native Americans that preceded him) and made it so in a much more tangible way.... if we would only focus our intent to the whole earth in the same manner, we would see that we are what we have been waiting for.

[Prodigal Son]

If you've ever read the Madame's rants against the Catholic Church, particularly the Jesuits, you would be assured of whose side she was on.

[Prodigal Son]

It's long been my feeling that Annie Besant was an infiltrator.

Subversion sometimes has to take baby steps. The planners behind the scenes have exhibited uncanny patience for hundreds of years.

Ms. Blavatsky was "connected", no doubt. She was channeling... a fountain of knowledge that boggles the mind.

That makes her eligible, depending upon your perspective, of being anything from a Satanist to a Saint.

She came from a powerful family, who were also no doubt "connected". She gave up the status symbols and fled from a life of abuse at their hands.....

It's a fine line between white and black magic. Ms/ Blavatsky has been grossly misunderstood and/or prejudged by the Fundamentalist crowd, of which I was once a proud and zealous Pharisee member..

There were a lot of people out to smear her at the end and she was relegated to the Satanist bin by the Fundy Extremists, but later exonerated. They never talk about that though. :rolleyes:

[Cartomancer]

There are plenty of people out there who are not 'fundy extremests' who question the doctrine this person has set forth. I began to examine this subject matter because it is intertwined with my studies of the Holy Grail phenomenon. All of the same people are involved through history.

Nicholas Roerich was a St. Germain character who played a central role in theosophy in the early twentieth century. This guy palled around with the vice president and was even sent to the far east during the F.D.R. administration to supposedly collect agricultural samples. He was admired by people from many different countries including his native Russia. Strange since he was a known artist and spiritualist. This was during the same era that the Nazi's were combing the globe for relics and information similar to what one see's in the Indiana Jones movie 'Raiders of the Lost Ark.' This person had access to the inner circles of the elite and he definitely fits the bill of a more modern St. Germain character.

Roerich is even tied to the stone of destiny which was supposedly given to him by members of the Priory of Sion in Paris. He was also associated with the Philosophical Research society founded by Manly P. Hall. Many who look extensively into this are left with the impression that the Priory is real but their function is to keep the relics they posses hidden by producing false clues and relics to throw people off of the trail. There are extensive groups of people from vastly different belief systems who are all searching for and value these relics. Even today.

He was so lauded that a building was built for him by wealthy supporters in New York City. He included a piece of this stone in the cornerstone of what is known as the Master Building in Manhattan. This building served as the archetype for the evil sky scraper in the movie "Ghost Busters."

Roerich's involvement with the stone of destiny is interesting in that later it was determined by many not to be real. By involving himself in the search for the stone of destiny Roerich was able to insinuate himself in circles as high as the President himself. He knew F.D.R. was captivated by the search for the Holy Grail. F.D.R. even invested in recovering the famous Oak Island Treasure and had a hand in the creation of the famous Star Chart of Hoover Dam. It is clear that F.D.R. was aware of the concept of the Axis and Templum in America. F.D.R. is also part of the Bacon's Vault legend of Colonial Williamsburg. He was one of the last to ever see the vault. Thomas Jefferson was also said to have access to the vault. This may be a metaphor for the fact that they knew many secrets pertaining to the true history of North America.

[Ishtar]

I would think twice about valuing a personage such as this. This person was a manufactured spiritualist that was part of a plan designed to institute a new religion for the new age. She and her handlers identified the perfect combonation of mumbo jumbo to mess with your head straight out of Jung and Freud.

She is espousing a touchy-feely new age channeling kind of faith that Hitler, Bormann, and Himmler just loved. This is the kind of 'faith' that is used to control your hypothalamus and psyche. Check into the Lucis trust and how it associated with the United Nations. Even Tsarion expresses doubt over this woman. This is the same crowd that is manufacturing the Maitreya for you.

Here you go. Prophets don't materialize organically but we're going to give you one that is manufactured just in time for the processional change of the zodiac. Don't make up your own mind or have your own faith. Let Blavatsky do it for you by channeling the Pliedans or who ever else you want to hear from. These people are manipulative occultists who want to control you with this B.S. They don't even believe this stuff. If you examine the whole breadth of history you will see a continual presence of people like this. The occult is all about manipulating the tier of idiots below you and this woman was created for that purpose alone.

Next lets start and thread about Aleister Crowley and how cool ritual masturbation and sex rites are. If he says it o.k. it must be cool.

All of the megalomaniacal manipulative groups through history have always had a Blavatsky for you. C'mon people. The Pharohs, Ceasar, Royalty, Occult secret societies all have so little respect for you but to feed you this kind of B.S. and everyone eats it up with a fork and knife. They want to create your faith so they can control you with some spiritual channeling and fortune telling.

I absolutely agree with Cort's view on Blavatsky. We know of so many of these so-called spiritualists and mediums that were either 'turned' by Freemasons, or who were already Freemasons.

At the time of Blavatsky's work, the archaeological record was very thin and so she could make claims for previous races which were impossible to independently verify. Nowadays, the archaeological record is still far from perfect, but we have much more information and certainly enough evidence to show that her races of man theory cannot be supported. Her views about the Aryan race also fed into the colonial racism of the British Raj in India, which did its best to destroy the indigenous culture there, and it also fuelled the racism of the Nazis.

I agree with Whiskey Mystic that many of her ideas and theories can be found in other cultures, but I think she made the mistake of interpreting them literally. For instance, her Cosmic Evolution is taken from Vedic memes which are found in the creation myths of many contemporary cultures. The stories were metaphors for astronomical processes. They were not meant to be taken literally and never were until the 4th century CE, when Roman Emperor Constantine instituted the biggest psy-ops exercise of all time. He established a literal version of the Christ story across his empire which was enforced under the Roman jackboot, and then burned down the Library of Alexandria, which housed all the wisdom of the ages, and destroyed the Mystery groves.

In my experience, it's important to realise that history is history and myths are myths. Blavatsky's races of man theory was culled from myths and then turned into history... which is why it cannot be supported by the archaeological record. However, it served very well the psyops of the time, which was white supremacist in nature.

Cort also mentioned Aleister Crowley's role in psy-ops. Here's my article on Red Ice Creations about how he worked with the CIA, space agency people and the Scottish Rite of Freemasons to invent the New Age, including channelling and the belief in ETs. The Entertainment Division of the Industrial-Military Complex (http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=20561).

[Ishtar]

Cort, couple of other things to mention.

There's a lot in this video by the codebreaker Louis Buff Parry about Roerich's role in creating that cornerstone of the building in Manhattan, and how the Freemasons are still chasing after a missing component key ~ an artifact ~ which, they believe, will kick start their plans for 2012. Buff Parry describes being tortured by the Freemasons because they believed his code breaking had given him some knowledge that they needed to identify this artifact's location.


http://youtu.be/Z_75v1XA46g

Also I was interested to hear recently about how Stanley Kubrick used allegorical images and hints in his movie The Shining to give a nod towards the Oversight Hotel in Los Angeles, that Frank Zappa had also commented on, which was the social engineering CIA HQ that spawned the psychedelic music revolution and the whole Haight Ashbury thing. (I think this is also the Eagles' Hotel California ~ "you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave").

[NancyV]

Cort also mentioned Aleister Crowley's role in psy-ops. Here's my article on Red Ice Creations about how he worked with the CIA, space agency people and the Scottish Rite of Freemasons to invent the New Age, including channelling and the belief in ETs. The Entertainment Division of the Industrial-Military Complex (http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=20561).
Excellent article, Ishtar!

[Cartomancer]

Cort, couple of other things to mention.

There's a lot in this video by the codebreaker Louis Buff Parry about Roerich's role in creating that cornerstone of the building in Manhattan, and how the Freemasons are still chasing after a missing component key ~ an artifact ~ which, they believe, will kick start their plans for 2012. Buff Parry describes being tortured by the Freemasons because they believed his code breaking had given him some knowledge that they needed to identify this artifact's location.


http://youtu.be/Z_75v1XA46g

Also I was interested to hear recently about how Stanley Kubrick used allegorical images and hints in his movie The Shining to give a nod towards the Oversight Hotel in Los Angeles, that Frank Zappa had also commented on, which was the social engineering CIA HQ that spawned the psychedelic music revolution and the whole Haight Ashbury thing. (I think this is also the Eagles' Hotel California ~ "you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave").

I have seen LBP's movie 'Secret Codes of the Illuminate' (spelled this way in the title) many times. What he found in Saskatchewan is at the same latitude as the International Peace Garden and fits my whole model of the Holy Grail in America. He only found one component. I found the octagonal powder magazine (originally a church ca. 1714) and Thomas Jefferson's octagonal estate Poplar Forest both create azimuths or infer directions that lead precisely to the IPG. The IPG is the hidden Axis Mundi of North America and defines the location of all of the 'relics' including the Kensington Runestone and two locations of contrived Egyptian style artifacts.

Recently Parry has come to the conclusion that Roerich's stone is fake. The Priory of Sion created that whole mystery to mislead F.D.R. and Roerich. The future location of the IPG was selected as an Axis by early explorers because is sits at the east to west axis of the continent. I also believe that LBP's assessment of the Litchfield estate being where the stone is now is wrong. I think he got worked. If you have not watched my video "Secret Maps of the Knights Templar." It explains why what LBP found is only a very small part of the puzzle. There is an entire article about this on my blog Survivalcell.blogspot.com. link to my movie:

http://youtu.be/ER9g_L9EQRc

I enjoy Weidner's views. He overlooks all of the octagonal stargate imagery in 2001 a Space Odyssey. The monument/monolith makes you smarter. Sound familiar? In the movie the main character travels through a star gate at the end. Everyone should read the book because it explains everything that Kubrick simply hints at. I have also read many wild stories about Weidner's version of the Overlook. The original photo of the hotel on the Eagles album cover also had a great deal of lore associated with it in Santa Barbara which also has a Masonic street plan.

[Rawhide68]

Scary but interesting!

The comment below is very true:

"It's ironic that the soulless automated voice narrating this post is instructing us on how to protect ourselves from the soulless."
Also animating her photo to soulless movements :facepalm:

HELENA BLAVATSKY WARNED: 9 SIGNS Of SOULLESS People – And They Could Be In Your Family
l814HmQESTM

I have tried to read her books of the secret doctrine, but had to give up.
It's a challenging work to read indeed.