What will happen to unpaid mortgages?

[CivilDawn]

I don't know if this thread belongs here but here goes.

This thought occured to me just the other day that my family has not paid off the mortage on their house. My question is a simple one, and that is that if they have not paid it off by the time the SHTF, will they lose their home? In the past I haven't been very knowledgable about credit and lending bc I've always stayed away from it, but something tells me anything unpaid will default when the dollar becomes worthless..

Any input would help greatly.

[scarletfire]

Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

[donk]

The same place all my debt went I declared bankruptcy, back to the empty void from whence it came....

Oh sure, there's some "debt obligation" out there that still has "value", but like the dollar and all the other fake pieces of paper we "value", it is completely faith based.

Looking at the history of debt-based economies, historically they had to declare "jubilee" (forgiveness of debt) every 70 years or so...what is happening is now is not new. And supposedly, back then--most debts never went away--just got shuffled around. But these days, that **** got packaged the second it was sold, and now probably lives overseas with tons of its other fake never-to-be-paid brothers & sisters, in a Chinese owned mortgage-backed security (insured by an equally fake credit default obligation.

That is, if it wasn't involved in the AIG scam/Bear Stearns/TARP circle jerk. You never know, after all--every economist and even the creators said these deals (the securitization, CDOs, and CDSs and such) were soooo complicated the creators didn't even understand them. The mortgage-backed securities aren't as complex, but just as fraudulent. FNMA may have a piece. Some shady mortgage company, maybe.

But if I had to guess, there's a "good loan" on the original issuers, which is bull****, the actual "security" (it's funny that debt can be classified as such...almost as funny as "asset") is probably somewhere in big ****ing ball of mortgages...and some "risk manager" will be blamed for not ever thinking it would be possible to exceed the historical 5% default rate. And no one will care, except the sheep programmed to blame and hate you cuz they play by their precious system's rules.

Sorry for the pretty much uninformed rant. I stopped looking at this nonsense right around TARP...when I asked the questions:

Remember when billion (with a "b") was a big number?
Where does this money come from?
Wouldn't this path lead to some sort inflation issue?
And if I understand correctly, we are forcing all the banks (some that didn't even want it) to take pretty much no interest, from I guess "we the people", so they can bury these failed bets (lotta mortgages ended up in here), cuz society will collapse if we don't...did I get that right?

I asked the CEO of my bank at one of our "town meetings" after we found out we got eaten by a bigger bank:

you are saying that our "troubled assets" are the problem that caused this deal, and I remember from the last one of the meetings I went to a year or so back you talking about TARP. My understanding is that stands for "troubled asset relief program", apparently that didn't work out for us?

To which he responded: the program never worked the way it was supposed to.

Shocking, though I was prepared for that, seeing as my first question to him years ago at my first one of those handjobs which he kept talking about how "well capitalized" we are, I asked him what that meant. He gave a bull**** non-answer, to which I asked, well we are taught in school that there is some sort of capital reserve that you have to have as a percentage of assets, though it was never really clear to me what that was or where to find, it was always a "hypothetical 10% of deposits" to make the math easy--where can I find the scale of what constitutes "well capitalized", to which he spouted off about how there's many many measures and didn't even name, just left a vague "at least 3 or 4 that we like to use"....again, shocking.

Anyway, point of all this is, I used to think it'd be fun to find the answer to your question to your question. To start calling people and follow the trail of where my (defaulted) mortgage is (I know my house is sitting unoccupied as it has for years, and that I got a statement well after the sheriff sale with my mortgage in an account on the bank--and I know that they hadn't owned the mortgage well before that, as it was not them that came after me for it. Now, I am just so disgusted with faith based debt system of lies, where the rules change any time the powers that be (yeah--they still ARE, not WERE, and they keep this smoke and mirror **** going) need them to.

Michael Tellinger mentioned something about a "free man movement" where he is dealing with this stuff, it's one of the few econ related stories I have been able to stomach the last 4-5 years.

[Lone Bean]

I've often thought about this same problem myself. From what I can glean from other sources, it depends upon the severity of the collapse. If a total restart of our economic system is required, then I think everything will be restructured. If the banks owning our home mortgages fail and cease to exist, another bank will pick them up and we will still have to pay the mortgage. I can't find any concrete answers concerning this but I feel that if millions upon millions of homeowners defaulted on their loans, then the banks would be basically unable to do anything about them and we will still stay in our homes. How can the banks possible process all the defaulted loans and then send law enforcement out to evict us? I bet many law enforcement officers homes will also be in default and they won't be very interested in the bank's problems. Also, if something as severe as a major catastrophic solar flare/EMP happened knocking out our power grids nation-wide, then the last thing I'm worrying about is the bank coming to me for their money lol! There will be so many empty standing houses that if you wanted too, assuming you survive the mass die-off, that you could live in any of them you wanted. Just without any of the luxuries of course.

[donk]

Nice scarletfire, they are getting desperate. Think BoA actually paid that? I doubt it. Why should they...think they ever had the money to lend in the first place? Doubt it...

Banks do NOT want to own homes, they want to have good mortgages. I lived in my house for about 20 months I never paid for knowing that fact, and could have stretched it nearly indefinitely with the knowledge I picked up along the way--it's all out there, a lot of the stories are interesting too. Once you know the code (econ is just a bull**** language to hide relatively simple facts and info that would help the consumer), you can easily see how the game is rigged.

[we-R-one]

Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on
NO! Do not accept!!! I will tell u why when I get back to my computer. It's a trap!

[scarletfire]

Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on
NO! Do not accept!!! I will tell u why when I get back to my computer. It's a trap!

Haven't "accepted" yet, thanks for the heads up...showed it to a lawyer and she said it looks legit only thing is I'll have to claim it as income on next year's taxes. I'm confident that trapping folks is what the banks do best so I remain skeptical.

[DeBron]

Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on


Yes that is going on because they recently settled with several states because of all their very close to illegal lending practices. They offer that to a lot of people but ultimately a few thousand will qualify while most will not.

[we-R-one]

Ok, let me explain myself. First I will tell you I'm a former agent and recently went inactive, so I'm in the industry. One of the reasons I went inactive is because I no longer believe in home ownership under the current regime.....eerr, I mean, under the current leadership(smirk). I can no longer comfortably sell homes due to the fraud that is being committed behind the scenes within the mortgage industry. I'm actually going to be sending out a letter to all my clients informing them of the new found information I have investigated, which is the main reason behind my decision to step away from my current role as an agent. There is a remedy in the making, and I plan on participating to help clean up the mess.

You see there's a serious storm brewing within the real estate industry that I have become aware of. It is my belief that what will be transpiring in the next couple of years is going to affect every homeowner, agent, broker, title company and of course lien holders, that being the banks. Oh god.....it's bad, it's a mess, and it's going to make the crash of 2008 look like child's play.

My guess is that banks are contacting homeowners to make it look like they are doing you a big favor.....I believe what they are doing is trying to establish a new relationship via a contract, because what they have been participating in is fraudulent activities and they are attempting to reconfigure their paperwork because they know this storm is on the horizon and once people get wind, you are going to see an onslaught of lawsuits. It's all ready happening and the media is keeping very quiet about it. They need your consent, hence, most likely the purpose of re-creating a new contract with you. Back in a minute with the rest of the story....

[we-R-one]

One of the problems is an organization by the name of MERS. MERS stands for Mortgage Electronic Recording System. It's membership consists of many of the big banks. If you purchased or refinanced your home between 2001 and 2008....in fact, I would even extend that to the current time; you have a very high likelyhood of owning a MERS loan. There are several problems with this...trying really hard to make this simple as it's a complex situation.......From what I'm seeing they have been caught separating the note from the deed making it unclear as to who really owns the note. The note and mortgage are inseparable, therefore voiding both the note and the deed. See Carpenter v. Longan. The problem is, this clouds your title!

The lien holders are unable to prove that they own the property. Here's the scary part....as a homeowner you don't even know if you are paying the proper lien holder! Which means, you could be improperly paying the wrong bank, which means if the the real lien holder shows up, they can request immediate payment and foreclose on you legally!!!!!
EDIT to add:
It's all ready happening see Bevilacqua v. Rodriguez

My suggestion from this point forward, is to not buy a home unless the seller can prove they have a clear title. EDIT to add:Do not refinance until you know more about who's really behind your loan. And no, the title insurance company does not offer protection!!! And yes, they too are getting pulled into the lawsuits. They are exempt because of a specific clause buried in the contract you sign with them....unbelieveable! So of course you're asking, what the bleep do I even have it for if it doesn't protect me? Exactly.....

Here's the deal, I'm giving you cutting edge information. This is so new, that you're going to have trouble finding information within the industry. I will tell you, most agents have no idea about this, and will give you a blank stare if you ask. NAR(National Association of Realtors) has done nothing to pass on this information to their members........

I do not want to take away from the original poster's question, so before I go on, I would feel better if I had their permission to continue.


DISCLAIMER

I am not a Attorney (Lawyer) medical professional or financial adviser orJudge or Tax Expert or expert in anything, I do not offer Legal Advice orany other form of Law. I research and share Information for Fun andEntertainment and for comparison. All theexchanges contained in this email are for personal use only. This private emailmessage, including any attachment[s] is limited to the sole use of the intendedrecipient[s] and may contain Privileged and/or Confidential Information.Since I Know that I am a Freeborn man with a living Spirit, put here by a creator. I have made him Fiduciary over my Soul.
I am a Living Spirit "One of the People" sent here to live in aFleshly Body "Dust of the Earth", Living on the Dry Soil, Domiciledin a place called Idaho and Living under the Laws and Commandments of the creator and having no intentions of causing harm to anyone or anything. Not being the Subject to Slavery or the Unconscionable Contracts ofUndisclosed "Assumptions" "Presumptions""Adhesive""Invisible" and/or Color of Law and/or wordsmith. MAXIMSOF LAW is the foundation....

****AS PER THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT;
A. The practice of Law CAN NOTbe licensed by any state/State Schware v. Board of Examiners,353 U.S. 238, 239
B. The practice of Law is ANOCCUPATION OF COMMON RIGHT!
Sims v. Aherns, 271S.W. 720 (1925) ****


NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL IS NOTICE TO AGENT.NOTICE TO AGENT IS NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL.

[Siberia9]

we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come. BTW we changed title companys, who stated to me that they really didnt care who signed off on it, thats how its done now, the courts dont care, its the way they are doing it now.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

[we-R-one]

we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

[Siberia9]

I dont want to give advice in the fog but its probably best to just rent and not buy any real estate at the moment. I have sold all of mine except my paid for spot in the woods. Its difficult to say, who knows maybe some of these loans will be forgiven. In Russia before the Soviet system collapsed everyone lived in a house or apartment that the govt assigned to them. Then the next thing you know they ALL became property owners, no liens, heres the title. Of course ALL of their money was worthless too. My in-laws had bricks of cash, now worth nothing, only hard assets had value, like vodka and their houses.

I think its best to go ahead and accept that we really dont own anything. If you dont need it, now is the time to get rid of it. Be flexible and dont get to attached to physical stuff, let it go. We all know we are in for some changes, changes that we probably cant control or predict. So I am getting rid of everything and going with it. If you can get to the point where physical stuff is meaningless then you are free. Geez, I sound like one of the hippy's that work for me LOL, but its true none the less. Just accept that its going to change and go with the flow because I am sure that the people that dont follow that are set up for some difficult times ahead.

[we-R-one]

I dont want to give advice in the fog but its probably best to just rent and not buy any real estate at the moment. I have sold all of mine except my paid for spot in the woods. Its difficult to say, who knows maybe some of these loans will be forgiven. In Russia before the Soviet system collapsed everyone lived in a house or apartment that the govt assigned to them. Then the next thing you know they ALL became property owners, no liens, heres the title. Of course ALL of their money was worthless too. My in-laws had bricks of cash, now worth nothing, only hard assets had value, like vodka and their houses.

I think its best to go ahead and accept that we really dont own anything. If you dont need it, now is the time to get rid of it. Be flexible and dont get to attached to physical stuff, let it go. We all know we are in for some changes, changes that we probably cant control or predict. So I am getting rid of everything and going with it. If you can get to the point where physical stuff is meaningless then you are free. Geez, I sound like one of the hippy's that work for me LOL, but its true none the less. Just accept that its going to change and go with the flow because I am sure that the people that dont follow that are set up for some difficult times ahead.

LMAO, LMAO....I just got an email from National Association of Realtors....the headline is "Do your clients find you fascinating?" Guess I'm gonna find out after I do my fiduciary duty of notifying them that they might not be paying the right lien holder.....ok, really it's not funny, but I'm trying to keep a sense of humor because what are you going to do?

EDIT: It's an uncomfortable laugh by the way...more because I can't believe this is really happening, not that I'm laughing at my clients situations.

Yes, it's going to be very interesting........I'm going to encourage that my clients, if they can afford to,... that they go through the process of clearing their titles before the onslaught takes place. There's no telling how long the process will take once everyone starts figuring this out. The court systems are going to be overwhelmed and you are going to have people locked into their homes because the market will freeze as no one, no one in their right mind is going to want to buy a piece of property who's title is not guaranteed to be clear! A clouded title deems a property worthless!

And you never technically own your own home, even after you pay off the mortgage, because they don't give you the allodial title. There is only one piece of property in the world who actually has their allodial title and I can tell you it's not one of us!

[Camilo]

Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

When something sounds to good to be TRUE, it is!....the whole things is very surreal, to believe that a BANK is forgiving you a debt?....it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[scarletfire]

Thank you so much We-R-One for this info, one thing that I didn't include w/ my original post is that a couple months prior to receiving the notice of "loan forgiveness" from BOA, I got a check in the mail from BOA for my larger mortgage and an "explanation" that they had sold my mortgage. Why they couldn't just forward the $ to the proper loan holder is beyond me. The big question was to whom was it sold, come to find out some "Ocwen?" loan agency bought my mortgage and I had been throwing their mail straight to the recycling bin as I didn't recognize it as legitimate. The past couple years have been tough for me financially (husband out of work, recent bankruptcy, etc.) and I've really had to question whether or not to even keep my house. I bought the place in 2006 as a naive 25 year old when my husband and I both had good jobs and everything seemed relatively stable, now houses in my neighborhood are selling for fractions of what I still owe. I like the house OK but hate the area and have been feeling stuck in negative house/finance drama, plan on taking a traveling nurse position at the beginning of the year to remedy this feeling.

I feel like I've already been duped by these shady practices and since the damage has most likely been done, what do I have to loose as the SHTF scenario could very well happen during the repayment period (next 20+ yrs) and taxes could skyrocket and since we all just rent from the govt. anyway (property taxes), I may want to save the extra mortgage money for future rent payments, or FEMA trailer payment so they can sell my house to some nice family of foreign investors....Lol This whole scenario has taught me that honesty is a rare find and ulterior motives are everywhere. It seems that lots of folks have no conscience when it comes to making a buck, wonder how they will hold up when they realize its just paper and its value can be dropped like a candy wrapper. Thanks for not being one of these folks.

I'd be interested to hear more info as you research, thanks again!

[we-R-one]

Thank you so much We-R-One for this info, one thing that I didn't include w/ my original post is that a couple months prior to receiving the notice of "loan forgiveness" from BOA, I got a check in the mail from BOA for my larger mortgage and an "explanation" that they had sold my mortgage. Why they couldn't just forward the $ to the proper loan holder is beyond me. The big question was to whom was it sold, come to find out some "Ocwen?" loan agency bought my mortgage and I had been throwing their mail straight to the recycling bin as I didn't recognize it as legitimate. The past couple years have been tough for me financially (husband out of work, recent bankruptcy, etc.) and I've really had to question whether or not to even keep my house. I bought the place in 2006 as a naive 25 year old when my husband and I both had good jobs and everything seemed relatively stable, now houses in my neighborhood are selling for fractions of what I still owe. I like the house OK but hate the area and have been feeling stuck in negative house/finance drama, plan on taking a traveling nurse position at the beginning of the year to remedy this feeling.

I feel like I've already been duped by these shady practices and since the damage has most likely been done, what do I have to loose as the SHTF scenario could very well happen during the repayment period (next 20+ yrs) and taxes could skyrocket and since we all just rent from the govt. anyway (property taxes), I may want to save the extra mortgage money for future rent payments, or FEMA trailer payment so they can sell my house to some nice family of foreign investors....Lol This whole scenario has taught me that honesty is a rare find and ulterior motives are everywhere. It seems that lots of folks have no conscience when it comes to making a buck, wonder how they will hold up when they realize its just paper and its value can be dropped like a candy wrapper. Thanks for not being one of these folks.

I'd be interested to hear more info as you research, thanks again!

Don't give up just yet, let me look more into this. I have someone else that I want to ask this question for and it may apply to you....Take this idea into consideration.....say your title is clouded...the attorney that would be working to help clear your title....couldn't he ask for the fees you are required to pay to go through the process of clearing your title, to be paid by the lien holder who is fraudulently collecting your mortgage(that's if they are determined to be fraudulently collecting your mortgage)? And going even further, of you can prove that they clouded your title, what's to say you can't ask as a compromise that they re-negotiate your loan based on today's current market value? This could help you out tremendously....of course I would hope that your attorney might try and win your house for you free and clear, BUT, DO NOT COUNT ON THAT HAPPENING, as the judges in many cases are not allowing this to transpire. I'm just saying...there could be a diamond in the rough here, so don't despair just yet. I will be in touch with you. Don't feel guilty- you have been entrapped, all of us have, this is by design. I'm hopeful that I can offer you a solution and I'm truly sorry you have to have this experience- it's not suppose to be like this!

God....having to listen to a National Association of Realtors commercial right now about how important home ownership is.....talk about a synchronicity...think I'm gonna puke......

Sorry have to keep posting my disclaimer to keep me out of trouble.

DISCLAIMER

I am not a Attorney (Lawyer) medical professional or financial adviser orJudge or Tax Expert or expert in anything, I do not offer Legal Advice orany other form of Law. I research and share Information for Fun andEntertainment and for comparison. All theexchanges contained in this email are for personal use only. This private emailmessage, including any attachment[s] is limited to the sole use of the intendedrecipient[s] and may contain Privileged and/or Confidential Information.Since I Know that I am a Freeborn man with a living Spirit, put here by a creator. I have made him Fiduciary over my Soul.
I am a Living Spirit "One of the People" sent here to live in aFleshly Body "Dust of the Earth", Living on the Dry Soil, Domiciledin a place called Idaho and Living under the Laws and Commandments of the creator and having no intentions of causing harm to anyone or anything. Not being the Subject to Slavery or the Unconscionable Contracts ofUndisclosed "Assumptions" "Presumptions""Adhesive""Invisible" and/or Color of Law and/or wordsmith. MAXIMSOF LAW is the foundation....

****AS PER THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT;
A. The practice of Law CAN NOTbe licensed by any state/State Schware v. Board of Examiners,353 U.S. 238, 239
B. The practice of Law is ANOCCUPATION OF COMMON RIGHT!
Sims v. Aherns, 271S.W. 720 (1925) ****


NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL IS NOTICE TO AGENT.NOTICE TO AGENT IS NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL.

[donk]

It's nice to see people waking up to these types of issues, it is not that "cutting edge" though--it's been out there for about a decade, if not more. Just more and more scams are piled on top of more and more scams.

So many of the loans (and their derivates) are completely fraudlent. They set up shops all over the place during the boom (bubble inflation), spitting out completely fake garbage, packaging it up, shipping it out. Looks like the game of "hide the salami" will not end well...though I am amazed they kept it up this long...2008 was NOTHING, fixed nothing, cleaned up nothing...it was a hiccup in the smoke-and-mirrors, and miracle it was not the collapse of the finance industry.

But people keep playing the (finance industry) game. I used to use the analogy of the creators of the game keep "moving the goalposts so the right team wins", then I moved to "they just change the score to make it the outcome they want"...now you can't even use those analogies, it's like Jules says in Pulp Fiction:

"...it ain't the same f**kin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same f**kin' sport."


Good luck fightin' the good fight...I thought the battle was hopeless years ago...cleaning up the paper sh!t-storm the finance industry unleashed on the global population seems a bit of a tall order to me...but getting the information out to people that care to know...that is not only noble but real action to me--much love...

[we-R-one]

...well, what's cutting edge is the process in which to handle clearing the titles as this(the clean-up process) has not been going on for very long and you will be hard pressed to find anyone who knows how to do the paperwork properly, attorney's included, as even they, are not well versed on what to do. This is my understanding. More cases are going through the system and it's helping making the procedure easier. Guess I should have clarified better, but that's what I meant to say. Appreciate your support and kind words donk. I can only imagine how many people aren't going to be able to afford this...then what?....sigh

[meat suit]

we -R-one,

is this just a US problem?
or also europe? UK?

thanks

meat

[RunningDeer]

Hello We-R-One...this is a special delivery message for you. :wave:


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[we-R-one]

we -R-one,

is this just a US problem?
or also europe? UK?

thanks

meat

Hi Meat,
I'm not sure...but honestly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this becomes a nationwide problem for obvious reasons. I will ask my contacts to see if they have heard anything, sorry I don't have an immediate answer for you.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hello We-R-One...this is a special delivery message for you. :wave:

Hey White Crow, I officially get my dude back, lol! Thanks, you're the best-est! :hug:

[DeDukshyn]

we -R-one,

is this just a US problem?
or also europe? UK?

thanks

meat

Or Canada? Anyone know what Canadian banks have been doing behind the scenes in regards to the other financial troubles? I know they're always lauded as being the "best banks in the world" but they're not really any different - the government has just managed to "manage" them a little more within reason I think.

Just because our economy is doing great, and our banks have less probability of serious corruption doesn't mean things aren't going down behind the scenes, which I think may be the case - Harper seems to be selling out to all the big corporations so that's just a matter of time before our country is ruined in the same manner - even though things look good now - that's just how it always looks. I hate how our media doesn't cover these things well.

Oh well I'm renting now and if SHTF real good, I'm moving off to the woods to be hermit. ;)

[we-R-one]

Responding in blue





we -R-one,

is this just a US problem?
or also europe? UK?

thanks

meat

Or Canada? I'll ask

Oh well I'm renting now and if SHTF real good, I'm moving off to the woods to be hermit. ;)

want company?

[CivilDawn]

I've often thought about this same problem myself. From what I can glean from other sources, it depends upon the severity of the collapse. If a total restart of our economic system is required, then I think everything will be restructured. If the banks owning our home mortgages fail and cease to exist, another bank will pick them up and we will still have to pay the mortgage. I can't find any concrete answers concerning this but I feel that if millions upon millions of homeowners defaulted on their loans, then the banks would be basically unable to do anything about them and we will still stay in our homes. How can the banks possible process all the defaulted loans and then send law enforcement out to evict us? I bet many law enforcement officers homes will also be in default and they won't be very interested in the bank's problems. Also, if something as severe as a major catastrophic solar flare/EMP happened knocking out our power grids nation-wide, then the last thing I'm worrying about is the bank coming to me for their money lol! There will be so many empty standing houses that if you wanted too, assuming you survive the mass die-off, that you could live in any of them you wanted. Just without any of the luxuries of course.

I agree with your solar flare/EMP scenario, there would be quite a few other things for us humans to be considering if this were to happen.

I'm thinking more along the lines of when the house of cards falls. I'm in the process of getting my family on board with prepping for this potential economic collapse, though I don't know if it would be wise to use their house as storage, seeing as how they have not paid off their mortgage. I am currently renting out a twelve square foot room in a house thats already been paid off, with two brothers who are reluctant to believe anything this catastrophic could happen, let alone prepare by storing mass quantities of seemingly odd items in their parent's basement. I also don't know how well their parents would approve. So my issue is that I don't know if it is necessarily wise to set up shop at my parents house or look to lets say a close relative who has paid everything off. Any advice?

And also, we-R-one, I appreciate your contribution to this thread and I welcome whatever information you can gather. Your drive to service is exactly what we need here on this Spaceship Earth, so thank you.

[gripreaper]

This is the "Quiet Title" process, I believe.

The challenge becomes, when you sat down at the closing table to "get a loan" from the bank, the bank DID NOT actually provide "consideration" in exchange for your promise to pay. There is a problem with the contract because, under contract law, four things must be in place for the contract to be valid:

1. Full Disclosure
2. meeting of the Minds
3. Equitable exchange of consideration
4. BOTH wet ink signatures

NO real estate transaction has ANY of these. This is a TILA violation from the word "GO" and your right of rescission is in effect. The bank is only acting as a "pass through" agent, attempting to avoid the tax consequences, while taking full advantage of the leverage afforded it with the repeal of Glass Steagal. By Law, they cannot loan depositors funds, and they cannot loan their own credit!

So, where does the money come from? The truth is that it is created based on your signature, so you are actually the creditor in the transaction, NOT the debtor. The slight of hand then becomes , the initial deposit is put into a receivables account in your name, and then the bank, in order to avoid the Capital Transfer Taxes, "bonds" the mortgages into a Special Purpose Vehicle. This is like taking hundreds of notes (which are actually securities) and putting them into a blender, mixing them all up, to obfuscate them as to their value and ownership, and "selling" the rights to the payments (less fees to the servicer) to the REMIC investors.

The REMIC's, or Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduits, by LAW, are supposed to have all of the mortgages IN the trust withing 90 days of closing, so that the tax liability passes to the investors, and the banks hands are clean. Problem is, the banks DON'T transfer the notes into the pools, because it "severs" the Deed from the note and clouds the title, and the funds on deposit could not be leveraged if they did not retain them.

On top of that, they hypoticated these mortgages into many different tranches so that your note may have been sold so many times over, that the investors interest can't possibly be secured by the actual underlying asset. All of this awful mess being kept track of by MERS.

So, the fraud is, that if they transfer the note into the pool that clouds the title, and if they don't they trigger a taxable event. Either way, the trustee for the REMIC, who is supposedly the owner, or injured party, NEVER shows up in a quiet tittle action.

The banks will try and send an attorney, but that is easily objected to. The servicer, or MERS will try and lay claim to the title, using the obligation as proof, but they CANNOT be the owner of the note, can't bring the original note and Deed together as evidence, and they cannot swear under penalty of perjury to be an injured party.

In addition, many of the banks have already been paid through mortgage insurance, paid through the many tranches of the REMIC's, paid from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, bailed out by the taxpayers, and HAVE NO interest or injury from which to claim.

So, there are hundreds of thousands of homes out there with no clear title, no clear chain of recorded assignments, no true party of interest who could claim to be injured, and no lawful unclouded path for the note to follow and keep the bank out of the hot seat.

It's a total mess, and We-R-One knows what she's talking about.

[Mulder]

It's likely we will pay off our mortgages with $10,000,000 notes that also buy a can of coke. But how will we pay our taxes? We won't & then we will lose the home.

[gripreaper]

But how will we pay our taxes? We won't & then we will lose the home.

It's not your house anyway. It belongs to the corporate state, which is in agreement with the corporate Federal Government, who has given all assets of this country to the elite global banksters under the bankruptcy of 1933. Even if you pay it off after 30 years, you don't get a Title or a full transfer of the original land grant via the patent. You do not get a fee simple allodial Title, only a release of lien on the banks encumbrance, which you gave them.

All property (not the same as land) registered at the county recorders office gives them full power to tax you and do whatever they want to you in regards to how you use their property, tied to them through the military districts established under the state of emergency from 1861, the districts created by the survey of Section, Township and Range. Your legal description (notice i DID NOT say lawful) gives the county full access, ingress and egress onto their property. The taxes you owe voluntarily because you registered with the county recorders office.

The actual Land, the actual asset, does not pass through to you at all.

Nice, huh?

[bluestflame]

long planned , bit hard to grow food when you don't have land

the long term plan is an evolved form of feudalism , where there are lords and serfs, the lords own everything including the land under your feet and the serfs MAY be allowed to live on the land IF they somehow service the lords agenda , any food grown on the land also belongs to the lord

a people without a land of thier own can also be effectively without rights , not like they UN is gunna enforce basic human rights either

[TargeT]

But how will we pay our taxes? We won't & then we will lose the home.

It's not your house anyway. It belongs to the corporate state, which is in agreement with the corporate Federal Government, who has given all assets of this country to the elite global banksters under the bankruptcy of 1933. Even if you pay it off after 30 years, you don't get a Title or a full transfer of the original land grant via the patent. You do not get a fee simple allodial Title, only a release of lien on the banks encumbrance, which you gave them.

All property (not the same as land) registered at the county recorders office gives them full power to tax you and do whatever they want to you in regards to how you use their property, tied to them through the military districts established under the state of emergency from 1861, the districts created by the survey of Section, Township and Range. Your legal description (notice i DID NOT say lawful) gives the county full access, ingress and egress onto their property. The taxes you owe voluntarily because you registered with the county recorders office.

The actual Land, the actual asset, does not pass through to you at all.

Nice, huh?

vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

[bluestflame]

don't forget the recently enacted installments ammended to the executive order where the govt (or agents representing) can aquire all land, food, transport, resources etc in "times of war"

[gripreaper]

vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

[we-R-one]

I'm thinking more along the lines of when the house of cards falls. I'm in the process of getting my family on board with prepping for this potential economic collapse, though I don't know if it would be wise to use their house as storage, seeing as how they have not paid off their mortgage. I am currently renting out a twelve square foot room in a house thats already been paid off, with two brothers who are reluctant to believe anything this catastrophic could happen, let alone prepare by storing mass quantities of seemingly odd items in their parent's basement. I also don't know how well their parents would approve. So my issue is that I don't know if it is necessarily wise to set up shop at my parents house or look to lets say a close relative who has paid everything off. Any advice?

And also, we-R-one, I appreciate your contribution to this thread and I welcome whatever information you can gather. Your drive to service is exactly what we need here on this Spaceship Earth, so thank you.

Thanks Civil Dawn. I thought about splitting off this thread from your post, because I felt bad we have gone off on a tangent away from your original question and then again I thought otherwise for the very reason of not pulling traffic away for the hopes that someone could answer your concerns. I don't even know what to advise you to do........there is no telling what direction this three ring circus could take, but I think all of us agree that it's not going to be in our favor. Throw in the whole Agenda 21 concept, which is all ready being implemented in over 600 cities around the country(USA), without congressional debate or approval, and homeowner's have nothing to protect themselves or their rights.

I wish I could publish the seething letter I sent to my board of realtors when asked why I wasn't contributing to RPAC(Realtor Political Action Committee). Did I ever let them have it! They want to claim that they protect homeowner's rights as their mission statement, "LMAO"- and no I'm not kidding, I did say that in my letter along with "WTF", as they vetted candidates in our state that voted for the NDAA(National Defense Authorization Act)! It was enough to get the attention of the ceo of our state association of realtors, in which I received a lunch invite, which was quickly cancencelled shortly after given and never rescheduled...my guess is once this guy absorbed and investigated what I was saying he realized he was way in over his head(which I do understand). I most likely hit him with a ton of bricks in the way I presented the facts and he just didn't know what to do with me.

I think it would be in poor taste for me to post it on the forum so I won't do it....but just know- I'm in your corner. I'm sad to say, most realtors are married to the money and the paycheck just like everyone else who doesn't want to wake up.....I never met a single agent in my 6 years who knew anything to the extent that I did as far as what was really going on and how it was going to affect the real estate industry.....and the scary thing is, I don't even consider myself well-versed- I barely skim the surface with what I know. I can't tell you how hard it was to sit in office meetings and listen to the conversation......omg.

And for the record, while my associates were selling short sales and REO's left and right- I was not, because I could see there was fraud going on and I did whatever I could to avoid them. Though it financially hurt; now that I know what I know, I consider myself lucky...because with what's coming around the corner is going to be anything but pleasant for these agents and brokers, as they are going to get sued right out of the business because of this MERS mess. They, along with the lien holders(banks) and title companies are being listed as defendents in the cases and some are loosing! And even though I have warned those associates close to me in a couple of meetings and recently in an email when I had more information....I did not get one response, no thanks for the warning, nada, nothing, not even a comment. I don't even think they can comprehend what I'm telling them.

Crap, I did leave my "messiah" costume at the cleaners, so maybe that had something to do with it.
:moony:

[StarDust]

vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

Isn't that primarily a technicality? Once I've paid off the vehicle and receive the title in the mail from the financing company, I am then free to sell it at any time; or do whatever is legal with the vehicle (trade it, place it in a trailer, drive it off a cliff, etc.). I've never had a finance company approach me with their hand out for a percentage of the sale after the fact.

[gripreaper]

I'm thinking more along the lines of when the house of cards falls. I'm in the process of getting my family on board with prepping for this potential economic collapse, though I don't know if it would be wise to use their house as storage, seeing as how they have not paid off their mortgage. I am currently renting out a twelve square foot room in a house thats already been paid off, with two brothers who are reluctant to believe anything this catastrophic could happen, let alone prepare by storing mass quantities of seemingly odd items in their parent's basement. I also don't know how well their parents would approve. So my issue is that I don't know if it is necessarily wise to set up shop at my parents house or look to lets say a close relative who has paid everything off. Any advice?

And also, we-R-one, I appreciate your contribution to this thread and I welcome whatever information you can gather. Your drive to service is exactly what we need here on this Spaceship Earth, so thank you.

Thanks Civil Dawn. I thought about splitting off this thread from your post, because I felt bad we have gone off on a tangent away from your original question and then again I thought otherwise for the very reason of not pulling traffic away for the hopes that someone could answer your concerns. I don't even know what to advise you to do........there is no telling what direction this three ring circus could take, but I think all of us agree that it's not going to be in our favor. Throw in the whole Agenda 21 concept, which is all ready being implemented in over 600 cities around the country(USA), without congressional debate or approval, and homeowner's have nothing to protect themselves or their rights.

It's a non sequitor. It matters not in a collapse scenario if your long term storage foods are in a house paid off or a house with a mortgage.

If the UN starts coming 'door to door" under a declared state of emergency, you are going to have much bigger fish to fry.

[gripreaper]

vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

Isn't' that primarily a technicality? Once I've paid off the vehicle and receive the title in the mail from the financing company, I am then free to sell it at any time; or do whatever is legal with the vehicle (trade it, place it in a trailer, drive it off a cliff, etc.). I've never had a finance company approach me with their hand out for a percentage of the sale after the fact.

You could characterize it as a technicality. You got to sell it to the next guy for it's depreciated value, but you still pay for the vehicle (cost of purchase minus what you sold it for) plus insurance, maintenance, license, etc. This technicality applies under normal civility. Try pissing them off and see what happens.

[Dennis Leahy]

Blessings to you, we-R-one, blessings to you. The thanks button is not nearly enough when someone steps up like you are. We the People are lucky to have you on our side!

:~)

Dennis

[we-R-one]

So, where does the money come from? The truth is that it is created based on your signature, so you are actually the creditor in the transaction, NOT the debtor. The slight of hand then becomes , the initial deposit is put into a receivables account in your name, and then the bank, in order to avoid the Capital Transfer Taxes, "bonds" the mortgages into a Special Purpose Vehicle. This is like taking hundreds of notes (which are actually securities) and putting them into a blender, mixing them all up, to obfuscate them as to their value and ownership, and "selling" the rights to the payments (less fees to the servicer) to the REMIC investors.

You bring so many good points to the table and this is very overwhelming to many who have not had to go down this path. Did you guys catch what he said here? You are a creditor via your signature, not the debtor that they make you out to be! So when you sign for that house or say a credit card.....your signature is what's paying for it. You are paying for the item twice plus interest! So you think this whole MERS thing is a mess- throw that information into the pile and ........well......there are no words for the level of fraud that is being placed on the human race.

[Dennis Leahy]

Yes, the Gripreaper's grip on legal (not lawful) reality is immensely appreciated too!

:~)

Dennis

[we-R-one]

vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

Isn't that primarily a technicality? Once I've paid off the vehicle and receive the title in the mail from the financing company, I am then free to sell it at any time; or do whatever is legal with the vehicle (trade it, place it in a trailer, drive it off a cliff, etc.). I've never had a finance company approach me with their hand out for a percentage of the sale after the fact.

Here's something else I've learned- don't sign the vehicle registration form that they give you when you pay for your tags. It's basically a contract and by signing you are stating that you are "ok" to being subject to their statues! Of course, you need to know how to defend yourself, because you will get pulled over at some point and you have to be able to go into court, pro se, to argue why those statues don't apply to you- it's all about jurisdiction! When you sign that form- you are giving them jurisdiction.

[StarDust]

vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

Isn't that primarily a technicality? Once I've paid off the vehicle and receive the title in the mail from the financing company, I am then free to sell it at any time; or do whatever is legal with the vehicle (trade it, place it in a trailer, drive it off a cliff, etc.). I've never had a finance company approach me with their hand out for a percentage of the sale after the fact.

Here's something else I've learned- don't sign the vehicle registration form that they give you when you pay for your tags. It's basically a contract and by signing you are stating that you are "ok" to being subject to their statues! Of course, you need to know how to defend yourself, because you will get pulled over at some point and you have to be able to go into court, pro se, to argue why those statues don't apply to you- it's all about jurisdiction! When you sign that form- you are giving them jurisdiction.

Interesting points and I do recall Drake mentioning something about that process very early on in his radio chats. However, since I've yet to encounter a serious traffic infraction in close to 30 years of driving (minus a few neglegible speeding tickets in my youth), I'm more inclined to let they system crumble before I head out to buck the system. I think this strategy will win in the end as time is on my side;o)

[cloud9]

I wonder what will it happen if nobody paid their mortgages?

[we-R-one]

vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

Isn't that primarily a technicality? Once I've paid off the vehicle and receive the title in the mail from the financing company, I am then free to sell it at any time; or do whatever is legal with the vehicle (trade it, place it in a trailer, drive it off a cliff, etc.). I've never had a finance company approach me with their hand out for a percentage of the sale after the fact.

Here's something else I've learned- don't sign the vehicle registration form that they give you when you pay for your tags. It's basically a contract and by signing you are stating that you are "ok" to being subject to their statues! Of course, you need to know how to defend yourself, because you will get pulled over at some point and you have to be able to go into court, pro se, to argue why those statues don't apply to you- it's all about jurisdiction! When you sign that form- you are giving them jurisdiction.

Interesting points and I do recall Drake mentioning something about that process very early on in his radio chats. However, since I've yet to encounter a serious traffic infraction in close to 30 years of driving (minus a few neglegible speeding tickets in my youth), I'm more inclined to let they system crumble before I head out to buck the system. I think this strategy will win in the end as time is on my side;o)

You should have been sitting in this room with me and a bunch of other guys one night a while back-total legal guru's and I'm not talking about attorney's....this one was describing how he out-talked the policeman out of a ticket based on jurisdiction. He cited all the statue violations, the lack of jurisdiction and then he told the cop that legally they only had 3 three reasons to pull him over, none of which was why he had been originally stopped. He had that guys head spinning, LMAO. His buddy who was with him at the time said it was hysterical. The cop called his supervisor and then the supervisor came to the scene, LMAO, LMAO. They had to let him go

[Camilo]

The root of the problem started when the controllers made you buy into the illusion that you must be a home owner, so they could control your life till the last day.

[we-R-one]

Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on
NO! Do not accept!!! I will tell u why when I get back to my computer. It's a trap!

Haven't "accepted" yet, thanks for the heads up...showed it to a lawyer and she said it looks legit only thing is I'll have to claim it as income on next year's taxes. I'm confident that trapping folks is what the banks do best so I remain skeptical.

Scarletfire, something else I wanted to mention, for you and other property owners. There's a tax coming to homeowners in 2013.....it won't effect everyone, but you should know about it as it's still bad news and will create additional problems for the real estate industry. Starting Jan 1, 2013 a 3.8 percent tax is going to be implimented on homeowners, who sell their home, for the purpose of funding Obama's healthcare plan. Ahh yes, the homeowner's are now being required to fund this asshole's idiotic and useless health care program. So here's how it works....

The tax does not affect all real estate transactions....you know what I'm going to stop- let's get it right from the horses mouth the National Association of Realtors, your saviors, your protector of homeownership rights! Lights people lights, cameras!!! Applause!!Here ya go!

"Understand that this tax WILL NOT be imposed on all real estate transactions,
a common misconception. Rather, when the legislation becomes eff ective in 2013,
it may impose a 3.8% tax on some (but not all) income from interest, dividends,
rents (less expenses) and capital gains (less capital losses). Th e tax will fall only
on individuals with an adjusted gross income (AGI) above $200,000 and couples
fi ling a joint return with more than $250,000 AGI."

Here's additional information from their site:

Applies to:  Individuals with adjusted gross income (AGI) above $200,000
 Couples filing a joint return with more than $250,000 AGI

Types of Income: Interest, dividends, rents (less expenses), capital gains
(less capital losses)

Formula: The new tax applies to the LESSER of Investment income amount
 Excess of AGI over the $200,000 or $250,000 amount

Here's the link so you can read the rest from our wonderful realtor association:

http://www.realtor.org/small_business_health_coverage.nsf/docfiles/government_affairs_invest_inc_tax_broch.pdf/$FILE/government_affairs_invest_inc_tax_broch.pdf

[we-R-one]

Like how nice and sweet they make it sound, like it's no big deal.

[crosby]

i lost my home to foreclosure quite a while ago. i just wish i would have known, or would have been awake when i purchased the home - - because then i would not have purchased and i could have avoided so much emotional and economic turmoil. thank you we-R-one, very valuable information.
warmest, corson

[we-R-one]

i lost my home to foreclosure quite a while ago. i just wish i would have known, or would have been awake when i purchased the home - - because then i would not have purchased and i could have avoided so much emotional and economic turmoil. thank you we-R-one, very valuable information.
warmest, corson

Corson, you may have been foreclosed on illegally! You might check in to what the statue of limitations are in regards to filing a suit against the former lien holder for wrongful foreclosure if that can be proved. I know, I know, there could be an expense, but you never know, some attorney might feel you have a strong enough case.....the point being not to reclaim the home, but to sue for damages. Just thinking out loud here...need to find out about that statue of limitations......

[we-R-one]

Now after that nice PA announcement from NAR let's review their mission and vision statements shall we???

NAR's Mission and Vision

Mission
The core purpose of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® is to help its members become more profitable and successful.

Vision
The NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® strives to be the collective force influencing and shaping the real estate industry. It seeks to be the leading advocate of the right to own, use, and transfer real property; the acknowledged leader in developing standards for efficient, effective, and ethical real estate business practices; and valued by highly skilled real estate professionals and viewed by them as crucial to their success.

Working on behalf of America's property owners, the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® provides a facility for professional development, research and exchange of information among its members and to the public and government for the purpose of preserving the free enterprise system, and the right to own, use, and transfer real property.

oh they're helping shape the industry all right. OH and ethical- really, lmao. Like they are the moral authority. But hey, they're working on behalf of America's property owners! Well they got the America part right, but they should have typed it as AMERICA. smirk....

ONe more bonus- the kicker- they're working with "the purpose of preserving the free enterprise system, and the right to own, use and transfer real property."

uh...anybody else think they need to revamp their vision and mission statement?

[we-R-one]

we -R-one,

is this just a US problem?
or also europe? UK?

thanks

meat

Or Canada? I asked my contact and no information at this point. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they're doing this in other countries. Over here, we're having people go to the county recorder's office and pull all the paperwork that's been recorded on their property. Within those documents you can find whether there's a MERS identification number or not. You have a higher likely hood if the property was bought or sold in 2000 or later, or if you have refinanced within that time period.

Based on that information I would look for similar processes being doing in different countries. Find out who runs like MERS. My understanding is the membership behind MERS consists of all the big bank names. So once you understand how the system works over here in the U.S. you might be able to identify a similar process being done in your country. If I find any additional information I will post.

[gripreaper]

This is an excellent article and explains the fraud quite well:

Excerpt:

First, the lending institution must enter into the court record, the original “Note” and the original “Mortgage” document as of the date the Complaint was filed. The problem is that the lending institution does not have the originals anymore. Immediately after completing the closing, the lending institution sold the “Note” and the “Mortgage” to a group of investors and turned over the original “Note” and “Mortgage” to the investor group. The original lending institution no longer has any capital at risk. Based on this requirement, the foreclosure suit cannot go forward. However, the revenue officer, the so-called judge counts on the abysmal ignorance of the Citizen losing their home and the judge proceeds to steal the property.

Another thing that is happening is this. The banks are using fraudulent securities. The banks enter copies of the note and mortgage that measure 8.5 inches by 11 inches. Pursuant to 18 USC, these full size copies are fraudulent securities. Copies can only measure 75% of the original or 150% of the original. This would clearly give notice that these are copies. However, the banks are entering 100% copies, these are fraudulent securities.

Second, the lending institution must file an affidavit of ownership, which clearly identifies the Plaintiff as the “Real Party in Interest” with all of the attending rights, title and interest in the “Mortgage”. When the lending institution sold the “Note” and the “Mortgage”, they stopped being the “Real Party in Interest”. Hence, the lending institution has no “Standing” to sue on the property.

New Mexico does not even have any mortgage foreclosure statutes, so all of the mortgage foreclosures in New Mexico are conducted under the Rules of Civil Prodecure. READ that again, no mortgage foreclosure statutes in New Mexico. The whole mortgage foreclosure business in New Mexico is conducted the Rules of Plunder of War, the spoils of War, Prize and Booty.

Third, “Standing” is an absolute pre-requisite to filing a lawsuit. There are are three lawful requirements for “Standing”.

Injury in fact-not a hypothetical injury.
Causality-that the actions of the borrower created the injury in fact.
Redressability-that the judgment will make the injured party whole.

Three things can be proven beyond a doubt: 1) There is no injury in fact to the bank or mortgage company. 2) There is no causality-the bank is the cause of the damage to the mortgagor. 3) There is no redressability for the bank since it is the bank that caused the injury and damage to the mortgagor.

The revenue officer, the so-called judge, on the case will not require that his corporate buddies, the lending institutions, prove standing in the courtroom. Thus, without “Standing” the lawsuit cannot go forward.

Fourth, in order for a contract to be valid and binding, there must be “Consideration”. “Consideration” means “something of value”. The Citizen borrowing Federal Reserve Notes, brings his real estate, “something of value”, to the table in exchange for worthless paper called Federal Reserve Notes. So then, one must ask a few basic questions in regards to this transaction. When the bank loaned the borrower Federal Reserve Notes, did the bank go the to vault and take Federal Reserve Notes on deposit and loan those to the borrower?

Ask any banker friend and he will tell you that “No”, they do not loan out their deposits. So then, how are the Federal Reserve Notes “produced”? The bank goes to their computer and by the use of their “magical, Hollywood wand”, a few keystrokes, produce, out of thin air, say $100,000.00 Federal Reserve Notes, to loan you. This is where “Credit” comes from. One second before, these Federal Reserve Notes did not exist. Now, by magic, the bank has $100,000.00 worth of Federal Reserve Notes to lend you. So if creating “something of value” out of thin air is real, then it is easy for me to convince you that the Easter Bunny lays different colored eggs once a year. All mortgage contracts and notes are null and void for fraud, the bank never brought any "consideration" to the table. Also, the contract is void for lack of disclosure which a violation of TILA, Truth in Lending Act.

In the following sentences you can take the red pill or the blue pill. You must chose.

If you decide to read the above article titled "Memorandum of Law-Bank Fraud", you will discover that the banks, by federal law, are not allowed to lend their credit nor depositors money in the form of Federal Reserve Notes. So the only thing the bank can loan you is your own money. Good Reading.

There is a caveat here at this point. Before the bank or mortgage company create "credit", also known as Federal Reserve Notes, it needs to have on hand some collateral. You signed two major documents at the "closing", the "Note" and "Mortgage" or "Deed of Trust". Most Americans do not realize how valuable their signature on documents is. The Mortgage document serves as the collateral needed by the bank(from this line forward, when I say bank, I also mean mortgage company).

When you sign the "Note", the bank turns it into "money" and deposits it into a special, secret account set up in your name, that is to say, an all capitals name "nom de guerre" also known as "The Enemy of the STATE". By the magic of "banking", your signature is needed to "monetize" the "Note". To the bank, the "Note" document is actual "money".

If you don't believe me, request a copy of your "Note" and "Mortgage/Deed of Trust". Examine the Mortgage documents and you should be able to find a stamp on the document that says, "Pay to the Order of, without prejudice ABC Mortgage Company/ABC Bank." Now we just hit the mother Lode. Follow the money.

Under 18 USC, the "Note" becomes a negotiable instrument, also known as a "Security". Hence, you, the borrower, by your signature, created a "Security" for the bank. Which in turn, the bank, converts into "money".

Now here is where it gets fun. Now that the bank has "money" that it deposited into your secret, undisclosed account, it can loan you your own "money" back at interest. The bank then must balance its books, so the bank writes a "hot check" against the "money" in your secret account to "pay off" your debtor. Then your bank demands that the bank receiving their "hot check" pay them back with Federal Reserve Notes. Now the bank turns to you and says, "Now that we loaned this money, you owe us for the next thirty years".

The bank very conveniently ignores the "money" that you created by your signature and the bank deposited into the secret, undisclosed account. By the fact that you abandoned this secret account, the bank considers this "money" a gift from you. See, under the law, you cannot reclaim a gift that you made. Of course, the bank defrauded you when they took the "money" that you knew nothing about. Wow! What a system!

However, the "money deposited into your secret, undisclosed bank account", is still there. The bank considers this secret, undisclosed account abandoned. Thus, they lay claim to this "money". However, this theft of your property is a second degree felony called "Conversion of property". However, the banking system has little to fear, we as Americans have been dumbed down to the point of illiteracy by our indoctrination system. Oops, did I say indoctrination, I meant to say "education".

Here is the crux of the above three paragraphs. You, the mortgagor are a depositor and the bank owes you the amount of money of the Note. How is that for fraud. You should be suing the bank for fraud and extortion. The bank counts on the stupidity of the American people and gets to steal homes at their leisure.

http://ricoforsheriff.com/moratorium-on-mortgage-foreclosures

Lets go down the rabbit hole a little more. When the bank deposits your "Note money" into your special, secret account, you owned your home free and clear. The bank neglects to inform you of this little tidbit of information. Pretty convenient and self serving isn't it?

Read the WHOLE article.

[we-R-one]

This is an excellent article and explains the fraud quite well:

Excerpt:
[B]
First, the lending institution must enter into the court record, the original “Note” and the original “Mortgage” document as of the date the Complaint was filed. The problem is that the lending institution does not have the originals anymore. Immediately after completing the closing, the lending institution sold the “Note” and the “Mortgage” to a group of investors and turned over the original “Note” and “Mortgage” to the investor group. The original lending institution no longer has any capital at risk. Based on this requirement, the foreclosure suit cannot go forward. However, the revenue officer, the so-called judge counts on the abysmal ignorance of the Citizen losing their home and the judge proceeds to steal the property.

Great article grip- I will pass it on. I will say if it's a MERS loan they actually shred the note, it is not necessarily turned over to the investor group though I'm sure in some cases it has been; at least that's been my understanding. Thanks for the link!

[Watching from Cyprus]

we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

The big question nobody seems to ask themselves ; Who was the first owner of the land... how did they posses it... and who gave them the right to sell it ???? Nobody on this planet has any right to claim ownership on any peace of land... we are all here to share .... Just think about the Commonwealth countries . . All the land belongs to the Queen Lizard , so how can you home owners even think that your title deed is free ... this is just a lease and the Queen Lizard will throw you out when she feels for it ... This is how deep the deceit is .. NON OF US OWNS ANYTHING, and the sooner the better that sinks into everybody's head as fact, since only then will we stop defending materialistic things, although i would say the house you live in and is your home, you should defend it but never forget that if someone knocks on your door and asks for shelter, invite them in since your home is as much their home...

We have to break down the veil now

In truth and honesty
Peter

[we-R-one]

we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

The big question nobody seems to ask themselves ; Who was the first owner of the land... how did they posses it... and who gave them the right to sell it ???? Nobody on this planet has any right to claim ownership on any peace of land... we are all here to share .... Just think about the Commonwealth countries . . All the land belongs to the Queen Lizard , so how can you home owners even think that your title deed is free ... this is just a lease and the Queen Lizard will throw you out when she feels for it ... This is how deep the deceit is .. NON OF US OWNS ANYTHING, and the sooner the better that sinks into everybody's head as fact, since only then will we stop defending materialistic things, although i would say the house you live in and is your home, you should defend it but never forget that if someone knocks on your door and asks for shelter, invite them in since your home is as much their home...

We have to break down the veil now

In truth and honesty
Peter

Hi Peter,
Yes some of us do know, that we never own our homes and it has to do with the allodial title. Even though some pay off their mortgages they never fully own the property because if they did, they wouldn't be paying taxes. There's only one place in the world that has full ownership and if I remember correctly it's in England and I believe it's owned by some of the TPTB or TPTW however you want to label them.

[Watching from Cyprus]

we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

The big question nobody seems to ask themselves ; Who was the first owner of the land... how did they posses it... and who gave them the right to sell it ???? Nobody on this planet has any right to claim ownership on any peace of land... we are all here to share .... Just think about the Commonwealth countries . . All the land belongs to the Queen Lizard , so how can you home owners even think that your title deed is free ... this is just a lease and the Queen Lizard will throw you out when she feels for it ... This is how deep the deceit is .. NON OF US OWNS ANYTHING, and the sooner the better that sinks into everybody's head as fact, since only then will we stop defending materialistic things, although i would say the house you live in and is your home, you should defend it but never forget that if someone knocks on your door and asks for shelter, invite them in since your home is as much their home...

We have to break down the veil now

In truth and honesty
Peter

Hi Peter,
Yes some of us do know, that we never own our homes and it has to do with the allodial title. Even though some pay off their mortgages they never fully own the property because if they did, they wouldn't be paying taxes. There's only one place in the world that has full ownership and if I remember correctly it's in England and I believe it's owned by some of the TPTB or TPTW however you want to label them.

Yes dear, most will be shaken in their roots.. people born and raised to the lie that it is about having a career, earning a lot of money, buying and owning a property and the plot, just to find out they have worked their butt off for nothing... many will simply go mad, insane, and very very angry . . Full ownership in England... well that is Commonwealth and the land of the Lizard Elisabeth, so the ground layer is 100% owned by her and her family, and i assume they have then added a layer on top which is then 'sold' but can be scraped of, when needed !!!!!!

In love and light
Peter

[Ricker]

This is why I want to live in the woods and eat nuts and berries. Or have they taxed that too?:o

[genevieve]

gripreaper--

The link to the article you quote isn't working for me. Any chance you can give me the names of the website and the article?

Thank you.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve