Conspiracy: Why do some believe and others not? What will it take to open eyes?

[Huma]

So I felt the need to write this after a number of brief exchanges I've had online with people who still believe the world is as they are told and have been lead to believe. Some of these folks are a bit more objective, and at the very least will humor someone who has a view that might be "cooky" and conspiratorial.

Despite being a very grounded, skeptical, and rational person, I too have had this label thrust upon me whenever I dare voice a thought about how things are not as they should be.

For example, an old childhood acquaintance of mine posted an inspirational image of Barack Obama on FB which of course appeared on my feed. I must tell you that I generally ignore this stuff, as I know a tit for tat exchange will get me nowhere. But as I am human, I do occasionally share a thought or two.

Here is the image that got me a bit sick to my stomach:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558581_10151148921281749_150993597_n.jpg

Now listen, I understand I am speaking to a very distinct crowd here of diverse thought, not a hard lined skeptical community or a clueless bunch of "every man" type of folk. Still, the issues addressed in these forums are simply too important to hide and keep within the high walled garden of conventions, blogs, and forums like this.

When I saw the obama photo I commented: "Sorry but the evidence suggests presidents are *selected* not *elected*, regardless of what side your on. (the right left paradigm is also contrived too)."

And I got this in response from said acquaintance: "Well then I guess I have to tip my hat to the shadowy Illuminati puppetmasters for keeping their tightly scripted narrative engaging. Can't wait til they fake another moon landing for us!"

Needless to say this was cheap. It bothered me enough to prompt me to write this post. I would like to engage in a broad discussion really about the psychology of conspiracy and conspiracy theory, and really, broadly speaking, the issues we are facing at large. Why do so many folks mock these responses? What can be done about it? How can we engage others to help move the ball forward. Can it be moved enough?

Here is a particular segment of a recently released video from one of the most comprehensive 9/11 videos. It deals with the psychology of denial really. Why we don't face up to these realities, or even become willing to explore the possibility and be objective. The AE911truth guys have had enough experience, foresight, and difficulties to bring them to produce such a segment, found at the end of the video.

The video is about 9/11 deniers but it could easily be applied to other issues mentioned here and elsewhere, please do watch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju5gV8wAbpM

[ljwheat]

Why do some believe and others not? What will it take to open eyes?

The answer is You can not. You only have to go back to when you woke up. Remember what and how you acted and talked and believed so strongly about--- before the light bulb came on. Its came on for you, the person or persons standing right next to you and the world around you stayed the exact same way. Just moments after you awakened more than likely you tried to point out to some one what you were suddenly aware of and how simple it all seemed to all fit together now. ---- And wa la nothing.

Before the moment you awakened there were many that tried to enlighten you but --- no dice, only you can awaken not be told to awaken by any one.

Its no different than Math in school one student no matter how many time’s is shown the correct way to do a problem, until the mind makes the connection nothing happens.

With math it’s a must in school or you wont pass, and you’ll be made fun of so you try because everyone else seems to get it so you apply yourself to a greater extent to try.

But you have to realize its not required to wake up in this world, there is no pressure to do so, as most of the world believes as you and I did before this awakening took place.

When the student is ready is one thing, but living a controlled life under normal circumstances there is no need to wake up. --- And everyone begins from that starting point.

Unless you set up a tent and have a good old fashion awakening revival. But even then --- are you sure they are awake or just following the movement of the wake you’ve created in the group you’ve assembled.

When the light bulb finally comes on it’s a very personal thing that takes place. ---- Think back to ---- what was it that triggered you light bulb going on. ?

[Huma]

Hi ljwheat, thanks for participating in a discussion I think needs to take place. For me personally, I was aware from a very young age, not to the extent that I am now of course (I am 27). I knew something was amiss when reading my first UFO book in elementary school, and I know this is not the norm for most people. However, I understand your example none the less. It is my position, and I think a well founded one, that we must find ways to not only increase the odds of that bulb turning on, but how quickly it happens too. We simply do not have the time left to keep waiting it seems.

[Fred Steeves]

Why do so many folks mock these responses? What can be done about it? How can we engage others to help move the ball forward. Can it be moved enough?


Hi Huma, just 4 years ago I was similar to the person you're talking about, except on the fake right. There was absolutely nothing anyone could have said to me, life had to come to a point where I was compelled to do a bit of digging for myself.

If someone scoffs at what you say, just let it go man.

I came across a little story just recently, forget where, that finely illustrates how to live in harmony with our knowledge, and the responsibility to our fellow humans that goes right along with it.




There was a village that had been experiencing drought
for five
consecutive years. Many famous Rainmakers
had been called, but they had all failed to make rain.


In the villagers last attempt, they called upon a renowned
Rainmaker from
afar. When he arrived in the village, he
set up his tent and disappeared
inside it for four days.


On the fifth day, the rain started to fall and quenched
the thirst of the parched earth. The people of the village
asked the Rainmaker how he had accomplished such a miracle.


The Rainmaker replied, “I have done nothing”. Astounded
at this
explanation, the villagers said, “How can that be?
After you came, for days
later, the rain started.”


The Rainmaker explained, “When I arrived, the first thing
I noticed was
that everything in your village was out of
harmony with heaven. So I spent
four days putting myself
into harmony with the Divine. Then the rains
came.


There's a line I like from Manfred Manns song "The Runner" which goes:

"Watch your step, keep your cool, though you can't see what's in front of you".

If we here don't keep our cool through this challenge, then who will?

Cheers,
Fred

[ljwheat]

A better analogy applied to this would be to use a TV set as a example.

One TV person in front of it can only watch what is going on one channel, even though in real time some cable services may have over 150 or more additional channels one could be watching.

This is what’s happening with people most are watching the same programming the controllers have put in place. No matter how much they flip threw the available channels they only get the channels put in place to keep the internal light bulbs off.

Then comes along some one, or the internet a channel that they’ve never seen before. But like surfing the TV channels one will stop on channels one identifies with or familiar and safe, that validates there inner security and watch a rerun over and over than watch anything out side this known safe zone we’ve been placed in by Gov. Free public schools that are the Law of this land, and any country you go to brain washing and hypnotizing the populous into controlled bubbles of conformity.

Alterative medicine I believe started me on a different channel than what we are forced to believe. And with nothing to loose I ignored the safety zone a real doctor has always provided for me in authority and beliefs.

Anything out side the trained norms --- if presented enough may lead some to at least consider looking at alternatives if they have the time in this fast food fast paced, hurry up and get it done world we tail gate everybody in mentality. But until they get away from watching programmed TV including us-- that still have a foot in both camps will it start to lean more into the right thinking and understanding out side the controlled boxes set in place to keep that very thing from taking place.

The biggest drug addiction in the west keeping the American people blind is the TV sets in every room.

No one in there right mind would keep a 30 gallon tank of gasoline sitting in there living room. But yet a TV is more dangerous than gasoline, striking the right match or trigger, well you get the picture. Its complacency to TV and programming because everyone else is doing it. We’ve looked past the volatility of the bomb sitting in our living rooms.

And when that thing makes you all worm and fuzzy, you get the same high as if a needle is in your arm with a drug. Its addicting. The remote is the plunger. You keep pushing it till it make you feel good. Instant population control.

And face book is in place to catch any one turning away from the TV to the internet. With all its programming the alterative safe place to play. All the bases are covered and those who slip threw the cracks are caught in the nets of forums like this and are watched and attendance taken, and that’s all voting every four years is about is counting how many still are trapped and obedient slaves to the TV programming. Its just a head count. And don’t think for a minute there not counting those who are living off the grid.

We are all on a list some where, and watched, and that means its still a form of control, outside the controlled.


john xoxo

[gooty64]

Clearly it will take some colossal precipitating event to shatter the paradigm of the dumbstruck programmed TV mainstream media watching majority.

If exploding tall buildings and lines in the sky won't do it, then what on earth will it take?

And the ptb don't want the shtf scenario. They have been working the gradual power takeover and slavery model for centuries.

If there is someone on this forum with a solution please take this opportunity to share it now.....

[Carmody]

what does it take?

The same as it always does.

Direct personal impact.

If you ask all the people on this forum what it was, in the vast number of cases, this is what you will find.

Until then, people will fight to maintain their ignorance, and to the death, as it is tied directly to the survival mechanism, this desire for comfort. Remember, emotions, not conscious thought..so it becomes tied into the deepest survival mechanisms and the undercurrent of emotions. And people desire the comforts,and not knowing continues the comfort and the peace. Knowing is highly uncomfortable and threatens all aspects of personal security. emotions don't think, they have no future, no past, only a perpetual and 'immediately reactive now'.

And if this 'perpetual reactive now' state is part of the system of data input and output interpretation..which it is, then you get a huge lump of self created blockage to overcome, a blockage that is as big as the survival mechanism itself.

There's no logic there, there never was.

[ljwheat]

Clearly it will take some colossal precipitating event to shatter the paradigm of the dumbstruck programmed TV mainstream media watching majority.

If exploding tall buildings and lines in the sky won't do it, then what on earth will it take?

And the ptb don't want the shtf scenario. They have been working the gradual power takeover and slavery model for centuries.

If there is someone on this forum with a solution please take this opportunity to share it now.....

When in ‘Rome’ ----- In church, --- In a library, ---- In a friends living room, ---- In Las Vegas, ---- In occupy wall street, ---- In free fall with a shoot on your back, ---- In a fire fight in Viet Nam, When in ‘Rome’ is all out here, awake is when the bulb come’s on inside you. If there, --- or me -- are keeping you occupied on anything out here, it’s a program. But giving each other forms or ways to become self empowered and strengthened then were doing something important. In stead of following what’s in ‘Rome’.


Like Carmody said its safe to be in ‘ROME’.



Like driving passed an accident we are like looky loo’s slowing down to discus the accident or the PTB are or have been doing, or standing watching a building burn down while standing next to a stream with bucket in hand and only talking about it.

Action is required other wise this forum is just another form of a TV soap. Only inter active, eventually the action part is only talked to death. And business as usual. And life go’s on. Its addicting to point out how right we are and how wrong they are. Complacency sets in very quickly. I don’t know what the answer is, at least we can kick it around a bit here and now. But some action must happen me thinks.

John xoxo

[truth4me]

Live your life with honor and integrity and be kind to people yet stand your ground for truth. We are awaken for some reason that we might not understand now but could come in useful down the road. I had a guy a few years ago tell me I was crazy for believing in aliens and such and I looked at him and said "Dude,you smoke crack and you're calling me crazy?":confused:

[ljwheat]

I Think Mr. Gooty 64 thread plays a big part in this Acquiescence take a look see. / http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49437-I-Almost-Lose-the-Will-to-LIve-Icke-w-video

[ljwheat]

'Acquiescence', love hurts, by Nazareth / with lyrics, is this the reason Christ wept as he look on Israel, forgive them for they know not what they do. Or fail to see, what we see.

gcf2rfL_6Sw


In law, acquiescence occurs when a person knowingly stands by without raising any objection to the infringement of their rights, while someone else unknowingly and without malice aforethought makes a claim on their rights. Consequently, the person whose rights are infringed loses the ability to make a claim against the infringer, or succeed in an injunction suit due to the infringer's conduct. The term is most generally a kind of "permission" given by silence or passiveness.

Why do some believe and others not? What will it take to open eyes, 'pulling there heads and hearts out of the sand might be a starting point'.

Fight or flight / add (hope) head in the sand. >acquiescence<

[ljwheat]

Is this not what we are dealing with in a nut shell ?

vax9r0ojlSA

nYJQpiHJKrE

[4evrneo]

Why do some believe and others not? What will it take to open eyes?

The answer is You can not. You only have to go back to when you woke up. Remember what and how you acted and talked and believed so strongly about--- before the light bulb came on. Its came on for you, the person or persons standing right next to you and the world around you stayed the exact same way. Just moments after you awakened more than likely you tried to point out to some one what you were suddenly aware of and how simple it all seemed to all fit together now. ---- And wa la nothing.

Before the moment you awakened there were many that tried to enlighten you but --- no dice, only you can awaken not be told to awaken by any one.

Its no different than Math in school one student no matter how many time’s is shown the correct way to do a problem, until the mind makes the connection nothing happens.

With math it’s a must in school or you wont pass, and you’ll be made fun of so you try because everyone else seems to get it so you apply yourself to a greater extent to try.

But you have to realize its not required to wake up in this world, there is no pressure to do so, as most of the world believes as you and I did before this awakening took place.

When the student is ready is one thing, but living a controlled life under normal circumstances there is no need to wake up. --- And everyone begins from that starting point.



Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

[another bob]

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

~ Mark Twain

[Tarka the Duck]

Dear Huma

Thank you for your OP - I like the slightly different take on the old "What do we do about all those who haven't woken up yet?" question.

(I do have a bit of a problem with the umbrella term "conspiracy theories" as there are so many out there from those that express a little suspicion to full blown they-are-definitely-going-to-kill-us-next-Tuesday theories. But I understand the need for a convenient phrase...)

A sentence in your first paragraph struck me as interesting:


...people who still believe the world is as they are told and have been lead to believe.

Mmmmm...I wonder....does this also apply to forums where conspiracy theories are discussed? Are we also just "believing what we are being told"? I do find there is a strong group-think - a subtle pressure, an expectation that the majority will think a certain way (with a certain amount of room for personal viewpoints of course). This very idea, that we are "awake" and everyone else is asleep, is a perfect example of this: how do we know for sure that we are awake? How do we know that we're not being manipulated in exactly the same way we think everyone else is being manipulated? Are the theories many here subscribe to really true or is it just entertainment? Have we merely exchanged one world where we are lied to for another world where we are being lied to? Have we merely swapped one illusion for another? Are we at risk of falling prey to the smugness of the true believer? Chemtrails...fluoride...vaccinations...HAARP...are there a certain number of theories we have to believe in before we can officially be called a conspiracy theorist?!

None of my friends are really interested in such things - and I think a lot of that is because of the wild rhetoric and outrageous claims by the likes of David Icke. This unfortunately prevents them from listening to the things he says that actually DO make sense. I find they can relate to things that are happening in front of them: food prices, rail fares, corrupt politicians, utility bill price rises - and for them, that is all that really matters. I would never criticise them for that at all.

Most people are struggling with their daily lives: they are trying hard to do the best they can and hold it all together. The conspiracy world is not attractive to the majority of people. To them, it sounds paranoid, suspicious, depressing, fearful...why would they want that? They believe they only have one life, and they want to do what they can to enjoy it, be happy and try to make others around them happy. Can't say I blame them :eyebrows:

Kathie

[gooty64]

ljw,
'Acquiescence', love hurts, by Nazareth / with lyrics, is this the reason Christ wept as he look on Israel, forgive them for they know not what they do. Or fail to see, what we see.

Credo Mutwa said to David Icke "I am worried sick about humanity" in one of their epic interviews. Also, Krishnamurti forever carried that "exasperation" regarding mankinds inability to change its failing society.

I don't mean to be a doomer but, this is a failing civilization and it steamrolls toward ____________ (fill in the blank).

Unless something happens dramatically to shift the consciousness of the participants.

[Davidallany]

what does it take?

The same as it always does.

Direct personal impact.

If you ask all the people on this forum what it was, in the vast number of cases, this is what you will find.

Until then, people will fight to maintain their ignorance, and to the death, as it is tied directly to the survival mechanism, this desire for comfort. Remember, emotions, not conscious thought..so it becomes tied into the deepest survival mechanisms and the undercurrent of emotions. And people desire the comforts,and not knowing continues the comfort and the peace. Knowing is highly uncomfortable and threatens all aspects of personal security. emotions don't think, they have no future, no past, only a perpetual and 'immediately reactive now'.

And if this 'perpetual reactive now' state is part of the system of data input and output interpretation..which it is, then you get a huge lump of self created blockage to overcome, a blockage that is as big as the survival mechanism itself.

There's no logic there, there never was.

Exactly Carmody. I think the reason behind all of this is lack in evolution and perhaps some interference from other worldly forces. David Icke would describe it as having a reptilian reactive brain.
Billy Meier would contribute it to the lack of Human evolution and controll of emotions. One can not belame a murderer for her acts, all one can really do is try to help the unfortunates and the less evolved Humans to see things clearer. All one can do is to help medically and phsycologically. Osho once said that it was wrong to put people to death. Killing a killer is not helpful, it is like trying to put out fire with more fire. All things are tied up and related.

[Prodigal Son]

I was still a Fox-News-addicted lemming the day they pulled Saddam out of that spider-hole. My wake-up started when Colin Powell admitted to the UN that they knew the WMD's were faulty intelligence. Something told me right then and there it was a little worse than that: they had an agenda we're not privy to, even beyond oil.

The spiritual awakening began within a week or two after that, while listening to an interview between Michael Tsarion and Jeff Rense, I heard the words "our brains were unplugged." My life's worth of beliefs flashed before my eyes and suddenly a lot of things made a lot more sense.

Even the MSM-watching group knows that corruption is rampant throughout the system, and yet when you point out specifics that are never mentioned on said MSM, like names, times, and places, they go into automatic shutdown and ridicule mode.

And then there's the conspiracy forum-addicted "debunkers" who claim that we are an insignificant fringe group and yet they can't seem to leave us alone. It's these people who are bombarded with the facts on a daily basis who really tick me off to the point it would seem that they have an agenda that maybe includes being paid shills. But sadly, most of them are not, and they fight tooth and nail to defend the Criminal Cabal for free.

Something drives me to keep debating with them and I can't help myself, even though it's poison for my system and all it does is give me agita. No offense to any of you as I think this is the most enlightened forum I have ever seen, but its actually boring because you know too much and sometimes I find it hard to get the incentive to post because I can't teach you guys anything :tongue1:

[gooty64]

What's cool is there are some former righty's and lefty's on this thread and this forum that are now united.

We recognize the 2 sides of the same coin con that is american/world politics.

Deep down don't we all want what's fair and aren't we all willing to work hard? Save for a few numbskulls:yuck:-lol.

[Fred Steeves]

Also, there's a really cool saying that Anchor says, which I think is just custom made for this type of situation: "If you can't help someone out along their path, then atleast get out of their way".

[ThePythonicCow]

And then there's the conspiracy forum-addicted "debunkers" who claim that we are an insignificant fringe group and yet they can't seem to leave us alone. It's these people who are bombarded with the facts on a daily basis who really tick me off to the point it would seem that they have an agenda that maybe includes being paid shills. But sadly, most of them are not, and they fight tooth and nail to defend the Criminal Cabal for free.

Something drives me to keep debating with them and I can't help myself, even though it's poison for my system and all it does is give me agita.

Well said ... and that same compulsion to debate overcomes myself sometimes too.

Let me know if you find a cure :).

[K626]

what does it take?

The same as it always does.

Direct personal impact.

If you ask all the people on this forum what it was, in the vast number of cases, this is what you will find.

Until then, people will fight to maintain their ignorance, and to the death, as it is tied directly to the survival mechanism, this desire for comfort. Remember, emotions, not conscious thought..so it becomes tied into the deepest survival mechanisms and the undercurrent of emotions. And people desire the comforts,and not knowing continues the comfort and the peace. Knowing is highly uncomfortable and threatens all aspects of personal security. emotions don't think, they have no future, no past, only a perpetual and 'immediately reactive now'.

And if this 'perpetual reactive now' state is part of the system of data input and output interpretation..which it is, then you get a huge lump of self created blockage to overcome, a blockage that is as big as the survival mechanism itself.

There's no logic there, there never was.

Totally agree. Personal experience is the best trigger, if not the most long lasting. Everything that I can truly know derives from what happens to me personally or those I love.


love

K

[mountain_jim]

Why do some believe and others not? What will it take to open eyes?

The answer is You can not. You only have to go back to when you woke up. Remember what and how you acted and talked and believed so strongly about--- before the light bulb came on. Its came on for you, the person or persons standing right next to you and the world around you stayed the exact same way. Just moments after you awakened more than likely you tried to point out to some one what you were suddenly aware of and how simple it all seemed to all fit together now. ---- And wa la nothing.

Before the moment you awakened there were many that tried to enlighten you but --- no dice, only you can awaken not be told to awaken by any one.

Its no different than Math in school one student no matter how many time’s is shown the correct way to do a problem, until the mind makes the connection nothing happens.

With math it’s a must in school or you wont pass, and you’ll be made fun of so you try because everyone else seems to get it so you apply yourself to a greater extent to try.

But you have to realize its not required to wake up in this world, there is no pressure to do so, as most of the world believes as you and I did before this awakening took place.

When the student is ready is one thing, but living a controlled life under normal circumstances there is no need to wake up. --- And everyone begins from that starting point.



Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

This thread and this post are quite timely for me today.... I got an email from my father this morning, typical 'righty' propaganda quoting Krauthammer and commenting 'a lot of truth, I believe'.

This is long after our family instituted a 'no talking about politics' policy at holiday gatherings.

I had to respond to a 5 page letter and a copy of a Popular Mechanics Debunks 9/11 Conspiracies book from him after my sister told him I agreed with her views on 9/11. My response included the 5 best links I had to prove foreknowledge and Mossad involvement, among other things. He never acknowledged my reply or mentioned the subject again.

Deep denial, but projected onto me as a 'lost tin-foiler'. I decided the best thing for now was to avoid these subjects with him as he is 80+ years old and not open to this awakening, plus any thing received as a confrontation is not good for his health.

[Carmody]

I was still a Fox-News-addicted lemming the day they pulled Saddam out of that spider-hole. My wake-up started when Colin Powell admitted to the UN that they knew the WMD's were faulty intelligence. Something told me right then and there it was a little worse than that: they had an agenda we're not privy to, even beyond oil.

The spiritual awakening began within a week or two after that, while listening to an interview between Michael Tsarion and Jeff Rense, I heard the words "our brains were unplugged." My life's worth of beliefs flashed before my eyes and suddenly a lot of things made a lot more sense.

Even the MSM-watching group knows that corruption is rampant throughout the system, and yet when you point out specifics that are never mentioned on said MSM, like names, times, and places, they go into automatic shutdown and ridicule mode.

And then there's the conspiracy forum-addicted "debunkers" who claim that we are an insignificant fringe group and yet they can't seem to leave us alone. It's these people who are bombarded with the facts on a daily basis who really tick me off to the point it would seem that they have an agenda that maybe includes being paid shills. But sadly, most of them are not, and they fight tooth and nail to defend the Criminal Cabal for free.

Something drives me to keep debating with them and I can't help myself, even though it's poison for my system and all it does is give me agita. No offense to any of you as I think this is the most enlightened forum I have ever seen, but its actually boring because you know too much and sometimes I find it hard to get the incentive to post because I can't teach you guys anything :tongue1:

That's good you see, as bitching and moaning is avoidance of action and thought. When we are left with nothing more to say....what remains is a form of increasing calm, thought, and then a plan based in knowing.

what you will see in the middle of that process..is a parade of carp (stinky fishy) brought to the forum and other forums..and that carp is there in in order to reengage the feeling of being incensed, to activate the monkey in the mirror.

Some people bring the junk items and 'windmill tilting items' innocently, some bring it on purpose, with backed intent.

We have to move beyond written words in our conversations.

We have to move beyond emotions in our conversations.

We have to move beyond voice in our conversations.

Each of these things always results in a communication that occurs in a layer that is one step lower in rumination, contemplation, and action, etc.

In order to have a state of communication and concerted directed action and life that is perfected and working in the so called 3d and real world..in order to eliminate the 'one step down result-effect' of any form of 3d real world communication and act of togetherness..we have to start and enact it consciously.... from one step higher.

Now, what would that one step be?

Think for a few seconds. Shouldn't take more than that.

That's it.... you got it....

The communication needs to to be at the dimensional-psychic level.

And that is the only way you will ever master this 3d reality thing. One way, and one way only.

[Eram]

And then there's the conspiracy forum-addicted "debunkers" who claim that we are an insignificant fringe group and yet they can't seem to leave us alone. It's these people who are bombarded with the facts on a daily basis who really tick me off to the point it would seem that they have an agenda that maybe includes being paid shills. But sadly, most of them are not, and they fight tooth and nail to defend the Criminal Cabal for free.

Something drives me to keep debating with them and I can't help myself, even though it's poison for my system and all it does is give me agita.

Well said ... and that same compulsion to debate overcomes myself sometimes too.

Let me know if you find a cure :).

There is a point of view that tells us that there is only perfection... that everything is exactly as it should be. Everything has it's own rhythm and pace and time of awakening. In the ultimate end, we play a game that cannot be lost and we all return to source.

When you focus on this for long enough.... then you loose the urge to debate others and you can rest in silence. :)

not that I mastered this in any way

[ThePythonicCow]

There is a point of view that tells us that there is only perfection... that everything is exactly as it should be.
I have no intention of mastering that view :).

I'm of the school of thought that I can make a difference.

[Eram]

There is a point of view that tells us that there is only perfection... that everything is exactly as it should be.
I have no intention of mastering that view :).

I'm of the school of thought that I can make a difference.

Well, that's the paradox isn't it?
From this point of view, or awareness, you can and will make a difference :)


Let me know if you find a cure .

You can also try to bite your tong for the rest of the day's, but that can become a bit painful in the end... :behindsofa:

[Vitalux]

From my recent observations I have observed this:

We exist in a physical dimension where what we imagine collectively manifests.
This physical dimension/ illusion is a consensus reality illusion.

Whatever we tend to believe as a whole will be our collective reality.
Our individual thoughts are significant, and we can make a difference.
Be careful what you wish/think for; remember it is just all an illusion, just an experience.:attention:

[jaybee]

Dear Huma


A sentence in your first paragraph struck me as interesting:


...people who still believe the world is as they are told and have been lead to believe.

Mmmmm...I wonder....does this also apply to forums where conspiracy theories are discussed? Are we also just "believing what we are being told"? I do find there is a strong group-think - a subtle pressure, an expectation that the majority will think a certain way (with a certain amount of room for personal viewpoints of course). This very idea, that we are "awake" and everyone else is asleep, is a perfect example of this: how do we know for sure that we are awake? How do we know that we're not being manipulated in exactly the same way we think everyone else is being manipulated? Are the theories many here subscribe to really true or is it just entertainment? Have we merely exchanged one world where we are lied to for another world where we are being lied to? Have we merely swapped one illusion for another? Are we at risk of falling prey to the smugness of the true believer? Chemtrails...fluoride...vaccinations...HAARP...are there a certain number of theories we have to believe in before we can officially be called a conspiracy theorist?!


nicely put Kathie....and something we must bear in mind.

when I saw this thread I knew that 9/11 would feature heavily in it.

How about this for a conspiracy within a conspiracy....could the 'Inside Job' theory actually be a very successful Psychological Operation...?

Lead and pushed by 'agents'.....catching genuine Truthseekers in the net..?

Who dares to contemplate let alone express doubt in the Inside Job theory.

Well I do, for one (I have my own take on it)....but I still consider myself to be a conspiracy theorist at heart....just got to keep your wits about you at all times so's not to be lead down the proverbial garden path....

:biggrin1:



.

[ljwheat]

Keep it all in context, eternal spirit visits human experience, leave’s experience to visit the next adventure, experiences for eternity, choosing that experience before entering this or any realm to choose to stay asleep or to wake up before we come here. And then you come along and try to wake me up. What if I came here to sleep this time around?

Again there is 'NO' requirement to wake up. Free will to choose this journey and my itinerary not you. Now if I should ask a question then my mind is wide open for answers, you have to know when that door closes thow.

After it closes then your just preaching to me at that point.

And learning to listen, and not selective listening ---- will save you a lot of grief and miss understanding.

And since I have all of eternity to walk by the pond, I may not be in a hurry to go skinny dipping with you just quite yet, it's my journey MINE ? If you let me.?

Evangelizing anything is the wrong way to approach anything outside of you. You’re a guest here--- not the savior of the world, quit trying to take up permanent residence here your just visiting.

Crashing the party doesn’t help the world to go around. Its just a ride of many in this big eternity and that’s plenty of time for me to finally --- when i choose to getting around and asking you the right questions,-- eventually I’ll get there.

We act like if we don’t get it right pretty quick the worlds going to end ---- NO the rid is ending not the world. Keep it in context-- that eternity is a very long, long time, so slow down and stop tail gating and relax --- its eternity for Christ’s sake. LOL I’m just throwing a lot into the air what you pluck out for yourself is great.

For unless you can bend spoons, or raise the dead , and walk on water -- I would not worry about this ride to much its on auto-pilot any way.

We have all of eternity --- relax. Just airing my thoughts on this OP.

John xoxo

[T Smith]

what does it take?

The same as it always does.

Direct personal impact.

If you ask all the people on this forum what it was, in the vast number of cases, this is what you will find.

Until then, people will fight to maintain their ignorance, and to the death, as it is tied directly to the survival mechanism, this desire for comfort. Remember, emotions, not conscious thought..so it becomes tied into the deepest survival mechanisms and the undercurrent of emotions. And people desire the comforts,and not knowing continues the comfort and the peace. Knowing is highly uncomfortable and threatens all aspects of personal security. emotions don't think, they have no future, no past, only a perpetual and 'immediately reactive now'.

And if this 'perpetual reactive now' state is part of the system of data input and output interpretation..which it is, then you get a huge lump of self created blockage to overcome, a blockage that is as big as the survival mechanism itself.

There's no logic there, there never was.

Totally agree. Personal experience is the best trigger, if not the most long lasting. Everything that I can truly know derives from what happens to me personally or those I love.


love

K

Agree as well. However, I would point out one troubling trend. I have observed it is becoming more and more difficult for some people to discern concrete and basic understanding and truth from their own personal experiences, based on the intensified programming, instilled behavioral/mind control, conditioning, toxic pollution in the food/water/air supply that affects cognitive functioning, etc. Some people are so affected (or so far gone) that they would view their own loved ones being hauled off by Brownshirts as criminals of the State, no matter what the facts or circumstance.

[CdnSirian]

I've come late to this thread. Regards, all. Want to add http://nohoax.com (:alien::angel:? ) and the three download handbooks, I've read and they seem to convey that the SHTF is way worse than we can imagine - and also "if you're reading this you're on the winning side". That we can generate a winning reality. I'm definitely going for that.

[Taurean]

The wife and I got to yelling at each other a couple of weeks back because I was trying to explain some situation or other, and at the height of it she said it wasn't so much because she didn't believe what I was saying, but more that she didn't want to believe what I was saying. Which would seem indicate fear of the reality is more important to some. It's as if you don't think about it, then it might not happen.

I have to wonder just how insidious Mind Control really is because no matter how banal, trivial, moronic or down right deceptive TV really is, most people still think they are being entertained.

Dr. Pete Peterson alluded to the fact that something like 10% of the population cannot be Mind Controlled ( hypnotised ? ) which makes me wonder if some of us are like Dolores Cannon suggests, Wanderers, Starseeds, Indigoes, Comers In, to lead the lost and fearful when all authority has gone to ground, so to speak. Which would support Courtney Brown's remote viewing image of nobody in authority helping the refugees, after whatever it's going to be, that hits us.

[Sir Eltor]

For myself , it was like being trapped under ice and holding my breath for many a year...then finally breaking through and taking that long awaited mental breath ...

then , once you come to , you realize that you felt this way all along...

conspiraties ??? what conspiraties ???

[another bob]

http://i48.tinypic.com/2a4rg8y.jpg

[ljwheat]

Another incredibly high possibility than not is : The fact that we are incarnated, birthed, on this planet, as branch of the higher self from outside these many Dimensional paradigm bubbles. We came here in spirit form with all the power and freedom and movement of a spirit, having no bounds or restrictions, No sweat we can handle a little thing as human restriction, but that was before being restricted.

'Now' being restricted and bound by gravity, levity, and a body limited to the 5 sense’s,---- 'sure' - We knew we were also coming in to this realm as a blank sheet of paper, with no record of previous wonderings as spirit.

Now awake we find ourselves stuck -- up to our necks in the quick sand of slow, non-fulfilling, restricted and limited movement in this physical form. it’s a freaken prison compared to were we came from and what we really are: uncontainable spirit -- contained.

This hole in self -- everyone talks about we are desperately trying to fill and can never be filled is not a hole --- its an ach to be free as we know we should be. The only release how ever temporary is either sleep or meditation when spirit still attached like a dog on a leash gets to run around the local galactic Nationhood. Prison of 3D, like a tooth ach that never go’s away, we bounce off the prison walls of physical life trying to break free of this prison.

Instead of relaxing and letting it pass as all things do, we try to justify, moralize, philosoph-ify’- relig-ify, democratize, demoralize, and finally socialize in groups of butter fly’s caught in the same spider’s web of sticky 3D existence -- waiting for our eventual release date, when we can fly once again with no limitations.

So no matter how smart we think we are, being awake only give’s us a birds eye view of the prison cell (body) we agreed to embody for a time. I know everyone looks at intellectuals as being the authority and greater in wisdom or have some sort of handle on things that we don’t.

When all there really doing with there fancy words and posturing is whistling in the dark not wanting to face there spirituality -- are also trapped like you and me.:lalala:

And all those that are asleep, there fine and still happy,-- not in pain like us.:cantina:

:sick: of 3D caught in the :spider: Web 5 sense's. :bored:

:flypig: John :flypig: xoxo

[Lone Bean]

4evrneo wrote:
Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

This is EXACTLY the same situation I have with my husband. He's very smart, has all sorts of official letters following his name blah blah blah....but refuses to believe that our government would do such a thing as 9.11. We've even watched a couple of very convincing documentaries about 9.11 and he just walks out shaking his head and saying he just won't believe it. It's very frustrating for me and he thinks I'm a nut. We can't talk about a lot of things and 9.11 is definitely on the "do not talk about" list. I haven't even bothered to tell him about my interest in UFO's. Funny, he swears he thinks Elvis is still alive but won't face up to stark-raving reality about 9.11 and many other in-your-face events such as the eminent collapse of our economy. I love him, and I hope one day he wakes up, but for now I come to places like this forum to read and talk with others who are awake.

[Prodigal Son]

Now awake we find ourselves stuck -- up to our necks in the quick sand of slow, non-fulfilling, restricted and limited movement in this physical form. it’s a freaken prison compared to were we came from and what we really are: uncontainable spirit -- contained.

This hole in self -- everyone talks about we are desperately trying to fill and can never be filled is not a hole --- its an ach to be free as we know we should be. The only release how ever temporary is either sleep or meditation when spirit still attached like a dog on a leash gets to run around the local galactic Nationhood. Prison of 3D, like a tooth ach that never go’s away, we bounce off the prison walls of physical life trying to break free of this prison.

Instead of relaxing and letting it pass as all things do, we try to justify, moralize, philosoph-ify’- relig-ify, democratize, demoralize, and finally socialize in groups of butter fly’s caught in the same spider’s web of sticky 3D existence -- waiting for our eventual release date, when we can fly once again with no limitations.

So no matter how smart we think we are, being awake only give’s us a birds eye view of the prison cell (body) we agreed to embody for a time. I know everyone looks at intellectuals as being the authority and greater in wisdom or have some sort of handle on things that we don’t.

When all there really doing with there fancy words and posturing is whistling in the dark not wanting to face there spirituality -- are also trapped like you and me.:lalala:

And all those that are asleep, there fine and still happy,-- not in pain like us.:cantina:



"Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain." - Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NAS)

There has to be a good reason why we are chomping at the bit to incarnate while we're up there in Nirvana or the Astral or whatever, seemingly without a care in the Universe. Well it's just the opposite. We see the suffering and darkness and mind control down here and we happily sign up to come back while taking the risk that we might not be able to remember. Somehow we trust that the innate spiritual desire to find "Source" that we experienced in past lives will rise to the surface once again and we will get something accomplished. We suspect we will be driven to find out why we are here and Lord how the Internet has helped us. Perhaps we knew we were volunteering for the beginning of the Information Age and we found this very exciting.

I keep reading all over the place that it is in the density of physical matter that the human soul can evolve the most rapidly..... we can be Co-Creators at the level where it matters most.... where "God" needs to evolve from the primordial consciousness soup that the Cabal keeps us mired in. So we do this out of love for others. Every moment of life here then becomes priceless and regardless of how bad things get we keep rising to the challenge. Basically, we're here to work against the Suppressors and shine our Light on the Darkness. What better motivation than that?

Don't get me wrong... I know where you're coming from. I'm constantly begging for Scottie to beam me up, but I don't really mean it. I'm just venting at the stupidness of the planet I chose to try and help.

[ljwheat]

4evrneo wrote:
Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

This is EXACTLY the same situation I have with my husband. He's very smart, has all sorts of official letters following his name blah blah blah....but refuses to believe that our government would do such a thing as 9.11. We've even watched a couple of very convincing documentaries about 9.11 and he just walks out shaking his head and saying he just won't believe it. It's very frustrating for me and he thinks I'm a nut. We can't talk about a lot of things and 9.11 is definitely on the "do not talk about" list. I haven't even bothered to tell him about my interest in UFO's. Funny, he swears he thinks Elvis is still alive but won't face up to stark-raving reality about 9.11 and many other in-your-face events such as the eminent collapse of our economy. I love him, and I hope one day he wakes up, but for now I come to places like this forum to read and talk with others who are awake.

Thank You Lone Bean, I wrote this from personal experience with my mother, older brother, that were really steeped in Christianity the darkest form of being lead by what the gov. thinks is right for us all. The Pulpit, with all the love and light, closed doors to the real world.

I do love analogy’s that’s the only thing I retrieved from Church Dom. Comedians draw on the same source,-- real life reference analogy’s. Only this is sadly not funny at all as you’d like to get a little validation from those you love and are the closest to you.

And bringing the mountain to Mohamed is no small task.

And thank you for the validation I was looking for.

John xoxo

[ljwheat]

Prodigal Son, thank you so much for your timely pearls of wisdom. Casting those pearls at the right time and place is validation at its best. And I agree-- with out the net, we would still be in the stone ages, in moving the mountain to Mohamed’s door steps. I’ve been enjoying the view for quite some time now. And didn’t realize how easy it was to move the mountain for a better view, just by opening my mouth, instead of keeping my head in the sand, 'boy' that was a big desert my head was in -- you should see all the people that are still there LOL. Thanks John xoxo

[T Smith]

4evrneo wrote:
Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

This is EXACTLY the same situation I have with my husband. He's very smart, has all sorts of official letters following his name blah blah blah....but refuses to believe that our government would do such a thing as 9.11. We've even watched a couple of very convincing documentaries about 9.11 and he just walks out shaking his head and saying he just won't believe it. It's very frustrating for me and he thinks I'm a nut. We can't talk about a lot of things and 9.11 is definitely on the "do not talk about" list. I haven't even bothered to tell him about my interest in UFO's. Funny, he swears he thinks Elvis is still alive but won't face up to stark-raving reality about 9.11 and many other in-your-face events such as the eminent collapse of our economy. I love him, and I hope one day he wakes up, but for now I come to places like this forum to read and talk with others who are awake.

Your husband is in denial. I know that sounds trite, but there is no better way to describe it. Changing one's paradigm and worldview can be extremely painful, and frightening. It's much easier to walk out of the room and ridicule the messenger than to acknowledge elementary facts that by all metrics should be obvious to an average seven-year-old child. If one's very being is invested in an illusionary world where the sky is green, it can be very difficult to convince that person the sky is blue, even given reason, facts, and concrete sensory evidence that, under other circumstances, would not confuse a school child.

I know it's frustrating, but everyone needs to ease into their own awakening at their own pace. Tread gently and continue to plant seeds.

[Lone Bean]

T Smith wrote:
I know it's frustrating, but everyone needs to ease into their own awakening at their own pace. Tread gently and continue to plant seeds.

I used to be extremely frustrated....even to the point of seriously thinking about divorce, but have since stopped trying to wake him. He is on his own path and I must have faith in my Higher Power that he is in my life for a good reason. I guess I still plant a few seeds but I don't try to anymore. I keep my pie-hole shut about it, and do most of my prep work while he's not around to notice. I figure that if it hits the fan he'll finally be forced to wake up. In the meantime I just keep on keeping on! He is definitely in denial and there's nothing I can say that will crack his barrier. Thanks for your kind response T Smith! :)

[Huma]

PBS Colorado has the courage to air this documentary on 9/11 watch it now and send a message by making the highest rated video on their site. This is hard hitting stuff to be sure.
http://video.cpt12.org/video/2270078138

[Huma]

I thought I would update what I feel to be an important thread of discussion here. I spoke with Clifford stone recently for about 1-1/2 hours. I threw some curve balls at him that frankly I did not see anyone attempt. One of them was the topic of 9/11, now I won't go into my entire discussion with him as it was private, however, he is surprisingly very skeptical of most conspiracies, despite his rather fantastic personal story *and* all the documentation he has uncovered.

First, I must mention that he was a very sweet, loving, but down to business kind of guy, we barely exchanged pleasantries as he launched right into what he was currently doing, which threw me off guard at first. When I brought up 9/11, while he did not dispute the fishiness of it, and despite all of his fantastic claims, he said something mentioned in the first video almost verbatim: "I simply just can't believe my gov. would kill 3000 of it's own citizens". That shows how far we have to go to see some real -progress, because if someone as amazing as Clifford suffers from the (albeit somewhat understandable) cognitive dissonance, just imagine how most folks would be? Just to clarify, Clifford fully agrees that the spurious explanations of the events of that day do not add up.

We talked about many other things, and I suspect we could chat for days, and well, I just might do that should he be up for it.