Mantras.

[Tony]

Mantras.

Where science meets the spiritual.

A mantra (Devanāgarī: मन्त्र; Tib.སྔགས་ ngak; Wyl. sngags) [1] is a sound, syllable, word, or group of words that is considered capable of "creating transformation" (cf. spiritual transformation).[2] Its use and type varies according to the school and philosophy associated with the mantra.[3]

I am not an expert on mantras, I just repeat hundreds of thousands of them!

Mantras seem to have started in the Sanskrit language, in India. As Sanskrit is a spiritual language, the words are said to hold a power. The Tibetan language is based on Sanskrit, so that too holds a power. But probably any sound that holds a meaning can be used!

A mantra consists of a number of short words of one or two syllables, which make it very easy to chant and memorise. That's why Sanskrit is so useful. Whether it is psychological or literal, it work.

Mantras are a very powerful tool, and work on many levels. Mantra works on the mind, body and subtle body. They can either be chanted out loud, or internally so that they can resonate in the body and the mind. The psychology of mantras works, as their repetition can remind the mind of certain qualities.
OM or AUM is fine to use. By the way, Sanskrit is built on the vowel sounds and modified by the shape of the mouth. In fact everything comes from the sound A! which is the natural sound of a baby, and some say it is the sound of the universe.


Let's take OM MANI PEME HUM.
This is a mantra to imbue compassion - our natural, innate compassion.
It means 'Jewel in the Lotus' - Emptiness in Compassion, which is Unconditional Compassion.
Knowing the full meaning is not necessary: one just needs a flavour. Sometimes, we get too bogged down in concepts. There is a hundred syllable mantra which clears negative action and thoughts, but I've never bothered to find out what every word means: I just understand the general meaning and it seems to work!
In certain practices, as one chants, one can also visualise.
What is interesting – and is the reason for writing this - is that, if one chants internally, one realises that one cannot think of two things at the same time! However. one can still visualise, and have all the senses open. Therefore we can cut through extraneous thoughts!

Now this is the science, we cannot think of two things at the same time! So I'm wondering, if this is so, while chanting nothing else (accept the meaning of the mantra) can be transmitted to us!

So. if you are having a problem with thoughts during meditation, try a mantra. Gradually slow the mantra down, a space will develop between the soundings. Then you may find that the sounding only needs to be made every now and again like hitting a bell. When the sound goes, resound.

What is important in meditation is the space created, just to be. But sometime in meditation we need to engage the mind in something different, just for a change!

If you try this internal sounding, would you let me know what you find?



All the best,
Tony

[christian]

From jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com (http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2008/11/scientific-proof-of-water-as-carrier-of.html):



The vedic rituals are not without meaning. The mantras having positive and auspicious energy are carried by the water and water dutifully conveys them for the purpose intended by the mantras.

The most common mantra AUM which permeates the cosmos (the Om-kaar is said to be the sound of the cosmos of the moving particles. This is indicated by the Drum / Udukkai of the Cosmic Shiva in his non-stop dance in the cosmos indicating the non-stop movement of particles.)

[It] creates a certain and beautiful pattern of some harmony in water which the human mind is yet to understand.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_j7IwynrIhuk/SRvGK-OaLDI/AAAAAAAAAcU/BKA5jH1Etm4/s320/pic+1.bmp

I like mantras as a nice tool, they are one of the countless avenues for us to express ourselves, of the countless ways of how to influence our world.

[Marsila]

Thank you for this post. And i have to add from experience that chanting mantras does do all what it is supposed to do, sometimes immediately sometimes a bit later.

i've got everything from a raise, to making a living through a job i don't mind, to the living space i want, to i really believe getting rid of ghosts or troublesome black magic entities, to just very good days, that way.

I forgot where i read it, but the reason for that is the more we do these mantras the more they work, is as we say them, we start 'vibrating' at a different level than before, and our different vibrations bring different things into our lives, the mantras tell you exactly what they will bring and what they won't.

on the other hand i don't visualize, i just know what i want, and then i let the universe surprise me, as it does know better, as it can so much more than i ever will in this human form.

ah found one link
http://www.sanskritmantra.com/what.htm


Definition # 1: Mantras are energy-based sounds.

Saying any word produces an actual physical vibration. Over time, if we know what the effect of that vibration is, then the word may come to have meaning associated with the effect of saying that vibration or word. This is one level of energy basis for words.

Also Pie'n'eal you asked


Now this is the science, we cannot think of two things at the same time! So I'm wondering, if this is so, while chanting nothing else (accept the meaning of the mantra) can be transmitted to us!

and this same source says, so hope that helps


Definitions of mantras are oriented toward either the results of repeating the mantra or of the intentions of the original framers and testers of the mantra.

nice and very useful subject!

[Tony]

Another point about mantra, is that it supplicate divine help. There are deities (enlightened beings) that have certain attributes, which are also within ourselves, so this helps enhance them. This is part of devotional practices. When we supplicate we receive blessings, or rather we are more open to them!

One day we will chant OM BENZA CHRISTIAN HUM or OM MANI MARSILA HUM, for guidance and protection!

[Nickolai]

Marsilochka,

Gimme, gimme, mantras, mantras, mantras that worked for you...)))

With grace,

Nickolai

[Tony]

Be careful what you wish for, you may get stuck with your creation.

[Nickolai]

LOL, Tony!

It's perfectly fine with me.
That's just me: First I create something, that most of the time I hysterically try to uncreate it. That's just my fun!..))

Thank you,

Nickolai

[Tony]

I had a mantra...."OH Lord, what the hell is going on." Then I found out!


Tony

[Marsila]

LOL thank you for the Russian nickname, new one for my collection...and i give you a South American one Nico :)

The one that I first started doing was the Ganesha mantra, to remove obstacles. There is a lot of wisdom in the picture of Ganesha themselves, and an explanation s how obstacles can be removed by changing the thought.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c02IiIjCnJU/Tn2nT4GZxpI/AAAAAAAAAAg/Q3b5R5WRtQU/s1600/Ssymbolism_Ganesha.jpg

This website has many version of it, but for now just chanting, the one with the most seed sounds, that is what a lot of people use
Aum Shrim Hrim Klim Glaum Gam Ganapataye vara varada sarva janamme vashamanaya svaha
There are several beej (seed) mantras in this mantra. Among other things, it says, "Shower Your blessings, O Lord. I offer my ego as an oblation."

but this one from the same website is so good to, and does help (doesn't mention here, but also good for people with spine or back problems)

Aum Vakratundaya Hum
This is a powerful mantra from Ganesha Purana. When things are not in your favour, or when the minds of the people turn negative, depressed or discouraged, the attention of Ganesha may be drawn by this mantra to straighten their ways. The HUM symbolizes "Delay no more, my Lord, in straightening the paths of the crooked-minded ones." This mantra is used many a times in the Ganesha Purana to reduce the violence of cruel demons. In addition, this mantra could also be used for healing any spinal problem, such as curvature of the spine or curved limbs. Dedicate 1,008 repetitions of this holy word to straighten and heal such deficiencies.

The website
http://www.iloveindia.com/spirituality/gods/ganesha/special-mantras.html

Then there are the Tara mantras (Goddess mantras), The red tara the green tara the white tara, am not sure what the first was supposed to be for, but when i go out to get anything and i go walking the pedestrain lights are always green for me, whatever i need is almost always the first thing i see when i enter the place, and if needed to pay for something it is always much less than i had thought or paid before.

The green tara is of compassion, (btw anyone correct me if i'm interpreting this in very strange ways) and after a while will grant some wishes, as long as it isn't about hurting others...and the white tara mantra is a healing mantra in a way.

umm lets see also when i came across the sharaba mantra, it did clear the space of negativity like it says....of late i find just the sound 'PHAT!!' on it's own is working at clearing any negativity before it even arises
this is the only link i found that explains it
http://shreemarakara.wordpress.com/2012/05/04/sharaba-the-ultimate-negativity-destroyer-highlights-from-mohinis-a-new-you-for-the-new-year-i-seminar-21-april-2012/

The Gayatari mantra is also a very important one, this really keep up if you start, it is explained well in this about.com article
http://hinduism.about.com/od/prayersmantras/a/The-Gayatri-Mantra.htm


but remember you have to be very consistent with any you chose all the 'energies or gods' or whatever you want to call them of these mantras are sometimes fickle and so you should always keep it up...it's not too much, and a year after i started it a lot in my life, and more importantly in me has changed....but as you have been told careful what you wish for, it is good to purify oneself from all types of negativity before they accidentally wish for something that comes true...anyway most negative thoughts aren't ours, if someone else caused them :)

and if remember any more i will pm you, as this is pie'n'eals thread and just because he's a guru of patience no need to hog his thread! sorry! and thank you once again for this thread about an important tool, that crosses the dimensions and for a good reason a lot of the time.

[Tony]

Phat!!!! is a blaster! Try creeping up behind someone and shouting it!

It supposed to shake conceptual thinking, and put you straight back where you belong!

[Nickolai]

Here you are!

That's Deva-Prem!

2hOSAljWdT0

Nickolai

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But I like this best...))

nDnamSM3Z3s

LOL

[Tony]

I love the heart sutra.
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You can sing along!



Namah sarvajnaaya
-Adoration to the Omniscient!

Aaryaavalokiteshvara-bodhisattvo gambhiiraayaam prajnaapaaramitaayaam caryaam caramaano vyavalokayati sma: panca skandhaah; taamshca svabhaava-shuunyaan pashyati sma.
-When Holy Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva performed the deep practice in the Perfection of Transcendent Wisdom, he contemplated that there were five aggregates but observed that they were devoid of essential nature.

Iha Shaariputra ruupam shuunyataa shuunyataiva ruupam, ruupaan na prithak shuunyataa, shuunyataayaa na prithag ruupam, yad ruupam saa shuunyataa, yaa shuunyataa tad ruupam.
-In this case, Shaariputra, form is voidness and voidness is itself form; voidness is not different from form, and form is not different from voidness; that which is form is voidness, and that which is voidness is form.

Evem eva vedanaa-samjnaa-samskaara-vijnaanaani.
-So it is for perception, conception, volition and consciousness.

Iha Shaariputra sarva-dharmaah shuunyataa-lakshanaa, anutpannaa, aniruddhaa, amalaa, na vimalaa, nonaa, na paripuurnaah.
-In this case, Shaariputra, all things have the characteristics of voidness; they neither arise nor perish; they are neither defiled nor pure, neither deficient nor complete.

Tasmaac Chaariputra shuunyaayaam na ruupam na vedanaa na samjnaa na samskaaraa na vijnaanaani.
-Therefore, Shaariputra, within the voidness, there is no form, no perception, no conception, no volition, nor consciousness.

Na cakshuh-shrotra-ghraana-jihvaa-kaaya-manaamsi.
-Neither is there eye, ear, nose, tongue, body or mind.

Na ruupa-shabda-gandha-rasa-sprashtavya-dharmaah.
-Neither is there form, sound, smell, taste, touch nor concepts.

Na cakshurdhaatur yaavan na mano-vijnaana-dhaatuh.
-Neither is there realm of sight, etc., until we come to the non-existence of realm of consciousness.

Na vidyaa, naavidyaa, na vidyaa-kshayo, naavidyaa-kshayo, yaavan na jaraa-maranam na jaraamarana-kshayo, na duhkha-samudaya-nirodha-maargaa, na jnaanam, na praaptir apraaptitvena.
-Neither is there wisdom, nor ignorance, nor extinction of wisdom, nor extinction of ignorance, etc., until we come to the non-existence of old age and death and the non-extinction of old age and death. Neither is there suffering, cause of suffering, extinction of suffering, nor the path leading to extinction of suffering. Neither is there wisdom nor acquisition because there is no grasping.

Bodhisattvasya prajnaapaaramitaam aashritya viharaty acittaavaranah. Cittaavarana-naastitvaad atrasto, viparyaasaatikraanto nishtha-nirvaanah.
-Depending on the bodhisattva's Perfection of Transcendent Wisdom, one dwells without any mental hindrance. Because of the absence of mental hindrance, one is fearless; freed from delusory thoughts, one will reach Nirvana.

Tryadhva-vyavasthitaah sarvabuddhaah prajnaapaaramitaam aashrityaanuttaraam samyaksambodhim abhisambuddhaah.
-All Buddhas dwelling in the three periods realize the highest, perfect enlightenment depending on the Perfection of Transcendent Wisdom.

Tasmaaj jnaatavyo prajnaapaaramitaa-mahaamantro mahaavidyaa-mantro 'nuttara-mantro 'samasama-mantrah, sarvadukha-prashamanah, satyam amithyatvaat, prajnaapaaramitaayaam ukto mantrah.
-For this reason, know that the Great Mantra of the Perfection of Transcendent Wisdom is the Great Wisdom Mantra, the Unsurpassed Mantra, and the Unequaled Mantra. It extinguishes all suffering, and is true and real because it is not false. It is the Mantra proclaimed in the Perfection of Transcendent Wisdom.

Tad yathaa gate gate paaragate paarasamgate bodhi svaaha.
-Namely, "Gone, gone, gone to the other shore;
Gone completely to the other shore.
Svaha."

Iti prajnaapaaramitaa-hridayam samaaptam.
-Thus ends the Essence of the Transcendent Wisdom Sutra.

[Nickolai]

Phat!!!! is a blaster! Try creeping up behind someone and shouting it!

It supposed to shake conceptual thinking, and put you straight back where you belong!

Dangerous?

[Tarka the Duck]

This is the mantra of Chenrezi, who is the Lord of Compassion. The OP mentions it: Om Mani Peme Hung.

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[Tony]

Phat!!!! is a blaster! Try creeping up behind someone and shouting it!

It supposed to shake conceptual thinking, and put you straight back where you belong!

Dangerous?




Dangerous...Dangerous!....Of course it's dangerous...................to the ego!

When meditating and there is a lot of conceptual thinking going on, "Phat!!" shouted out loud, shocks the mind into stillness. Actually, if the meditation is 'going well' also shout it...just in case you are enjoying yourself!


One has to be mindful of the neighbours.



Tony

[another bob]

My favorite, the Vajra Guru Mantra, is an indestructible diamond thunderbolt!

http://www.rinpoche.com/gurumantra.html



HShevpJCrMQ

[Cristian]

Tony,

I recently read on this forum (dont remeber the thread :( ) something that felt very true to me.

Like focusing your mind on something like one does repeating a mantra ; is just a subtle ego game, a game that can reward you with incredible results, you can even perform miracles...but it's still ego based.

It was explained in that thread that one has to focus, or unfocus his mind on everything. Dont turn your mind in a lense for your thoughts...

Some students said ..."my master can do this" or "my master can do that" and the true master said I eat when I'm hungry and I sleep when I feel tired. Those were his "miracles" .

Am I on to something here, or am I completly missing the point?

[Tony]

Tony,

I recently read on this forum (dont remeber the thread :( ) something that felt very true to me.

Like focusing your mind on something like one does repeating a mantra ; is just a subtle ego game, a game that can reward you with incredible results, you can even perform miracles...but it's still ego based.

It was explained in that thread that one has to focus, or unfocus his mind on everything. Dont turn your mind in a lense for your thoughts...

Some students said ..."my master can do this" or "my master can do that" and the true master said I eat when I'm hungry and I sleep when I feel tired. Those were his "miracles" .

Am I on to something here, or am I completly missing the point?


Dear Chris,

This is a very tricky subject.

This is about purity of one taste.
This is about constantly letting go.

Some people may need bells and whistle.
Some don't.

One must test one's teacher,
and test one's own judgement.

It's all about 'being ordinary'.

We can talk more in the mediation group, otherwise people will get into much speculation. Some teachers and student deserve one another.


Tony

[Marsila]

okay now for me....this thread has gone from one with mantra music to something worthy of the x-files theme.....Tony, i was listening to that exact same Heart Sutra you posted on my mp3 as i typed my last message, then i came and found it here.

then i went and recommended a song to a friend and they were just like 'we were just listening to it'.....

and tried the PHAT! sound as you recommended and it worked, either because it does, or because people are bemused by that 'one second bout of insanity' that caused you to shout that out of the blue to yourself....in all cases it works.

Dear Chris82 their are almost 8 billion different interpretations to every single subject on Earth, just go with the one that resonates with you, it is your life, it is your energy, don't live it according to someone elses 'rule book'....try the mantras yourself, and see if you can get more or less answers to your questions from that : )

thank you all for the good videos you are all posting, and thank you again pie'n'eal for starting this thread!

[Arrowwind]

A standard Transcendental Meditation mantra is "I AM"

[greybeard]

Tony,

I recently read on this forum (dont remeber the thread :( ) something that felt very true to me.

Like focusing your mind on something like one does repeating a mantra ; is just a subtle ego game, a game that can reward you with incredible results, you can even perform miracles...but it's still ego based.

It was explained in that thread that one has to focus, or unfocus his mind on everything. Dont turn your mind in a lense for your thoughts...

Some students said ..."my master can do this" or "my master can do that" and the true master said I eat when I'm hungry and I sleep when I feel tired. Those were his "miracles" .

Am I on to something here, or am I completely missing the point?

No you are heading in the right direction Chris
To begin with aids to lessen the hold the egoic mind has on you are perhaps needed.
Ramana said "Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away"
So the mind (intillect) is used to remove the egoic mind-- then both are discarded. (Higher mind operates)

When you can walk on water take the boat.
That comes from a story of a student out to impress a master.
It took him twenty years to learn to walk on water. The master said you wasted twenty years of your life-- why did you not just take the boat?
Yogic powers feed the ego and are an obstacle to enlightenment.
So looking for power through spiritual practise is Self deafeating

Mantra-- that which protects-- has its uses but eventually that goes too.
There seems to be a process to enlightenment yet the paradox is that when it happens its by the grace of God.
The mantra helps to still the mind and that is good.
Also when you say an ancient mantra you are connecting with the high spiritual energy which has been contributed to by millions who have repeated it with devotion over countless years.

Everything in balance.

Regards Chris

[Tony]

A standard Transcendental Meditation mantra is "I AM"

Well, not everyone can get it right!;)

[Fred Steeves]

Years ago, I came up with my own mantra during a meditation. I still use it on a rare occasion. It's quite haunting in nature, and ever so slowly gains in intensity throughout each long repetition. Funny, it's rumbling through my head now just writing about it. (LOL)

Cheers,
Fred

[mahalall]

Many personal benefits and insights gained from mantra,

i) uplifting energy and stabilising emotions,
ii) vibrational shielding helping to deflect harsh arrows,
iii) expanding out to change environmental currents,
iv) applied with Bhanda (1) to consciously walk in higher dimensions,
v) holding the presence of death to request a persons harmonous passing,

Historical accounts note how Brahmin's added mantra into the Mahabharata, Mantra as a method of banishing the dark serpents-
When this sacrifice is conducted, the snakes that are named by the Mantras (incantations) will be rendered powerless and be impelled to fall into the sacrificial fire (2,3)

I'm not sure i'd have such faith, but experience notes that when faced with darkness mantra gives one a tickle to smile and to be smiled at.

1) http://www.thesecretsofyoga.com/bhandas/what-is-bandhas.html
2) http://www.mahabharataonline.com/stories/mahabharata_story.php?id=28
3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puranas

[Grinner]

(My second post to Avalon group). I like your standard Om Namah Shivaya, like this one (from the CD set by Russill Paul, "The Yoga of Sound":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gEx3ldOUBs&list=FLP9jPL2HJRQcbwxgMZy-Teg&index=4&feature=plpp_video

I also like listening to Krishna Das kirtans - you really get swept up. Also like the cd of Bhagavan Das that Mike D of the Beastie Boys put together called "Now". Particularly the Ganesha one. Helped to ingrain the mantras in my brain anyway.

I did the TM course in college and they gave me my own mantra (Shhhh, it's a "secret") that they told me was supposed to be based on my gender/age/personality or something. Does anyone know more about which mantras they select for a person?

Thanks for this thread and the vids. Happy to be here with you all.

[Nickolai]

I have found it!
Google is a wonderful tool.
While living in Berlin in the begining of the 90s I was introduced to some music stuff done by the famous Vince Clarke with the West India company.
I was surprised to find it on Youtube. That's 1984:

nk6G11La3gQ

Nickolai

[another bob]

bk6q0zxa4xQ

[nomadguy]

One of my favorites,
"Arut Perum Jyoti" I rather like the sound of it.

[Tony]

The mantra OM MANI PEME HUM is a supplication to the Lord of Compassion.
Now that Lord can be any image we wish, it's still Compassion!

Om mani peme hum is actually the mantra of Chenrezi(g). The reason I mention this is that at death, and during the after death process, and just before taking a new incarnation, if one does not have a specific practice of any method, one can call on the 'Lord of Compassion'.

The point is, as we are driven by our karma we will not be sure of our next incarnation, unless we recognise all the stages of what is called the gaps between death and birth (Bardo). So, calling on the Lord of Compassion and seeing everything as 'Unconditional Love' and all potential couples in union as deities, then this pure intention will help for a positive incarnation.



Tony

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Tony,

I recently read on this forum (dont remeber the thread :( ) something that felt very true to me.

Like focusing your mind on something like one does repeating a mantra ; is just a subtle ego game, a game that can reward you with incredible results, you can even perform miracles...but it's still ego based.

It was explained in that thread that one has to focus, or unfocus his mind on everything. Dont turn your mind in a lense for your thoughts...

Some students said ..."my master can do this" or "my master can do that" and the true master said I eat when I'm hungry and I sleep when I feel tired. Those were his "miracles" .

Am I on to something here, or am I completely missing the point?

No you are heading in the right direction Chris
To begin with aids to lessen the hold the egoic mind has on you are perhaps needed.
Ramana said "Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away"
So the mind (intillect) is used to remove the egoic mind-- then both are discarded. (Higher mind operates)

When you can walk on water take the boat.
That comes from a story of a student out to impress a master.
It took him twenty years to learn to walk on water. The master said you wasted twenty years of your life-- why did you not just take the boat?
Yogic powers feed the ego and are an obstacle to enlightenment.
So looking for power through spiritual practise is Self deafeating

Mantra-- that which protects-- has its uses but eventually that goes too.
There seems to be a process to enlightenment yet the paradox is that when it happens its by the grace of God.
The mantra helps to still the mind and that is good.
Also when you say an ancient mantra you are connecting with the high spiritual energy which has been contributed to by millions who have repeated it with devotion over countless years.

Everything in balance.

Regards Chris


Very nicely said Chris, Thank you.

IMO anything that comes from the heart (and I mean truly heartfelt - without judgment) leads to enlightenment. Activating the heart (or some may say heart chakra) comes in different ways for all of us. One way that always works for me, is singing, totally connecting to the notes, words, melody, almost becoming the music if that makes sense. But, I believe one must be doing it for the joy of doing it, not because one is trying to become enlightened.

Fred, I love that you created a mantra that means something to you. I believe that's why it's become powerful for you - you connect to it at a heart level.

Repeating mantras that have no meaning to you individually are definitely helpful in keeping the ego mind quiet and taking one out of self - and this is always a good thing. also one's Belief System always plays an important role in our lives, which includes how we evolve.

And, of course, it is wise to honor others belief systems and not try to inject yours on them. In my world there is a difference between sharing and imposing. I hope you all see this as sharing.

[Fred Steeves]

The point is, as we are driven by our karma we will not be sure of our next incarnation, unless we recognise all the stages of what is called the gaps between death and birth (Bardo).


Hi Tony, I thought all the stages of what is called the gaps between birth and death, were also considered a Bardo. If not officially, it is for me anyway. http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif If our true nature is as One, then why are we separating the experiences of "life" and "death"?


Ba-ba-ra, we have much in common with music and singing. Hitting the right note is truly a simple pleasure in life, and I'm not often without humming something or the other while going about mundane daily activities. Start cranking out some favorite tunes on you tube? Then forget about it, it's karaoke central around here. (LOL)

Cheers,
Fred

[another bob]

If our true nature is as One, then why are we separating the experiences of "life" and "death"?

Fred, there is no birth and death, but there is also no end to birth and death.

:yo:

[greybeard]

Hi Ba-ba-Ra
I sing and play bass and relate to what you say--- there were times when I was playing semi pro that I got highs playing and wondered if I was playing the bass or it was playing me-- three was no difference between me and the playing.
Om nama shivia can have the same effect also the Gayatri Mantra.

Regards Chris

[Tony]

The point is, as we are driven by our karma we will not be sure of our next incarnation, unless we recognise all the stages of what is called the gaps between death and birth (Bardo).


Hi Tony, I thought all the stages of what is called the gaps between birth and death, were also considered a Bardo. If not officially, it is for me anyway. http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif If our true nature is as One, then why are we separating the experiences of "life" and "death"?





Ba-ba-ra, we have much in common with music and singing. Hitting the right note is truly a simple pleasure in life, and I'm not often without humming something or the other while going about mundane daily activities. Start cranking out some favorite tunes on you tube? Then forget about it, it's karaoke central around here. (LOL)

Cheers,
Fred


Hello Fred,

For us relative creatures, we are not as One. We still live in a relative existence, we still in birth death extistences.
It's only on forums like this that people believe they are already enlightened.

There are Bardos in life and in death.

Tony

[Fred Steeves]

Oh jeez, now this thread has gone and made me dredge up my earlieast introduction to Buddhism, and thus the mantra. 1999 or 2000 I think it was, and someone on the jobsite kept going on and on about this guy named Alan Watts, Zen Buddhism, and this really cool video he had about meditation. So finally one day I got him to loan me the rented vcr tape(remember those?) he had checked out from the library, and I anxiously took it home to dive into.

Boy was that a memorable period of life, the beginning of discovering whole new and previously unimagined worlds. Kind of like the first time you stay up momentarily on a 2 wheel bike as a little kid, but having not a clue how far you have to go to start driving a car.(LOL) Anyway, there were two main parts that struck me then. One was the introduction of the Mantra Aum as a meditation tool. The other, Alan calmly announcing: "The past is a memory, the future an expectation. Neither past nor future actually exists, there is simply eternal now."

All I could think was "wow, is this some cool s**t or what?" (LOL) So I rushed home from work every day for a week to pop the video in again, and practice what Alan was talking about. It looks kind of silly and ragged now watching it again for the first time in 12-13 years, especially with all that's happened since then, but at that time, it was beginning to shatter my closed and fragile eggshell mind. I'll never forget the early days of meditation, ringing out the Mantra Aum just like he shows in the video. Over and over, and over, and over, and... http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif And it worked!!!

ZG-wlwtnDcE

By the way, I still love the sound of a gong.:p

[Tony]

Mantras are like a supplication......ultimately to oneself!




Ultimate supplication.

The Guru is the dharmakaya, completely within mu own mind.
To recognise my nature is the supreme, essential supplication.
All phenomena and existence are displays of the Guru.
May I realise the ultimate Trikaya Guru.





NB, The word dharmakaya is a sanskrit word for complete emptiness. Sambhogakaya is complete knowing. Nirmanakaya is unconfined compassion...=Trikaya.

[Karunai]

(hello everyone, how have you all been doing? :) )

Mantras... I 'see' them as consciously focusing energy to 'form/un-form' energy; molding formlessness into form and vice versa. It's extremely important to be aware of the meanings of the (sound) vibrations we emit/create/absorb -including the subtlest as thoughts and emotions-, they are powerful tools after all. These are the few on my list:

Om http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/AUM_OM.htm

Hamsa

"Mantras are solar (Saura) and masculine, lunar (Vidya, Saumya) and feminine, and neuter. Neuter and masculine Mantras terminate in Namah, Hum, Phat; feminine in Tham or Svāhā . Ajapa (A + Japa = No + Chant) is the primal Mantra. This chantless Mantra pervades the breath going in and out, the subtle sound ‘sah’ going in and the subtle sound ‘ham’ going out. (Sa = Siva, Vishnu, Lakshmi, or Gauri [Parvati or Sakti]; Ham = I am; so = Parvati. As one chants this subtle-sound Mantra ‘soham’, a derivative of ‘sah-ham,’ ‘Hamsa’ comes into being by inversion and is the personification of Vital Air or life-breath. Sa (Sah) is Sakti and Ha is Siva. Soham, Hamsa and AUM (Pranava) are equipotent. Hamsah the inverted Sah-ham is the union of male and female. The universe is Hamsah, according to Woodroffe. This is the bird Hamsah which disports in the Lake of Ignorance. Here ignorance indicates spiritual ignorance. (...) Tirumular says that AUM, though a three-letter word, is a one-letter Mantra. Soham is the unintonated sound of normal breathing, meaning ‘I am He.’ " http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/MANTRA.htm

Om mani padme hung

Vajra Guru Mantra http://www.rinpoche.com/gurumantra.html

Green Tara

http://youtu.be/mr80WSE5kFo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu0qZ_vIOuE&feature=youtu.be

Ganesh

Gayatri
http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/GAYATR2-yantra.gif

Si va ya na ma (starting in that order)
ya na va si ma,
ma va ya na si,
si ya na ma va,
va si ma ya na

and/or

Sivaya Nama Om Sivaya Nama Om
Sivaya Nama Om Nama Sivaya


"Siva`ya Nama O`m …" leads one's consciousness upwards, "Sivaya Nama O`m …" and "Nama Siva`ya" downwards. The chant of the Siva mantra as a whole acts to integrate the three bodies with a powerful concentration at a particular center like the heart or the mid forehead. Similarly the chant of the three lines of the powerful vowels (Bija mantras) brginning with "Kooththe`" as in TM (Thirumandiran by Thirumoolar) 912 integrates the whole adhara (psycho-physical system) with all its main centers (chakras) as wells as the three bodies. The chant of the said Bija mantras i.e., the five vowels, I` - U` - A` - E` - O`m at first evoke and open the five main centers. Thus, a slow and repeated chant (say 20-30 times or more) of I` activates and opens the navel center (Nabhi); U` the heart center (Anahata); A` the spinal base or sex center (Mooladhara); E` the throat center ( Visuddhi); O `the mid for-head center (Ajna), and when O` is chanted with m i.e., as O`m or rather O` … m … it reaches and strikes at the top of the head (Sahasrara), and then reverberates reaching down finally the Mooladhara. (It is seen that the corresponding short vowels I - U - A - E - O touch the same centers but into their inner depth). http://www.auro-ma-ramalingam.org/thirumoolar_mantra.php


"The Panchakshara Mantra (5-letter mantra) has two aspects: Subtle and Manifest (Suksma and Sthula). Suksma Mantra is Sivayanama. The manifest Mantra is NaMaSivaYa. As you may notice the head of the Subtle Mantra is Siva and the tail is Nama. In the Sthula Mantra the head and the tail are inverted or transposed. Significance: Manifest man--embodied soul (Ya) has the head in Nama meaning he suffers from Na (obscuration of spiritual knowledge) and Ma (a load of Mummalams-மும்மலம்- Anava, Kanma and Maya Malas). The liberated man Ya (Jivan Mukta) enjoys Si and Va (Siva and Grace; his NaMa left him." http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/Om_Namasivaya.htm

Arut Perum Jyothi
Thanip Perum Karunai
Arut Perun Jyothi
'Vast Grace Light and Supreme Compassion'
mantra in Tamil language http://www.auro-ma-ramalingam.org/ramalingam_mantra.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlJxlW0hLyI

Bhaisajyaguru mantra (Medicine Buddha)

http://youtu.be/ag-y2Joa7rk

Mahamrityunjaya Mantra
(also called Mahamoksha Mantra, Great Enlightenment)

The Bija mantra is given by Kahola Rishi; The mantra is in Gayatri channdah; The mantra devata (deity) is Sri Mrityunjaya (form of Shiva). This mantra is to be used for meditation and at all times for protection from all evils. http://www.nandhi.com/mrityunjaya.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6D1mm7uX8s

A bit on Sound

"Sabda is sound, which is more ancient than gods and men, precedes creation, and is eternal, indivisible, creative, and imperceptible in its subtle form. Sound is not just what you hear with your ear. Wherever there is motion and vibration of any kind that is sound, according to Tantra as said by Woodroffe. Movement causes sound; we do not have instruments to pick up the sound of the movement of subatomic particles.
Sound is classified as follows: Sphota, Nada, Anahata, and Ahata.
Vak (Vaak) means word, sound or sabda; the Latin Vox comes from Sanskrit Vaak.

Sphota (स्फोट) literally means bursting and is eternal, indivisible, creative, and imperceptible.
Tantra literature goes further in elaborating Sphota.
Sphota is derived from the world Sphut (स्फुट्) meaning to burst or to open like a bud. The implication is (as the bud opens) as the word is sounded or articulated, the meaning of the word is revealed. The letter or letters by themselves carry no meaning until we connect them with an object or idea. When that object or idea is cognized, Sphota takes place. Sphota, before it opens, is in an undifferentiated partless state. It resides in Sabda Brahman, the Brahman of Sounds. When it differentiates, it falls into two parts: Sabda and Artha, Sound and Meaning. Sound exists as Nada (नाद) in Sabda Brahman and the force that makes it blossom is Bindu (बिन्दु), which is also resident in Sabda Brahman. Unmanifested Sound = Avyakta Sabda; Manifested Sound = Vyakta Sabda. Bindu is enzymatic and has the same function as the Maya of Brahman of Upanishads. Brahman transforms into Isvara with Maya as an instrument or enzyme that makes the world visible to the senses. Maya of Suddha Saivism does not have the same meaning found in Upanishads. In the former, it means the building blocks of the universe--Tattvas or Saktis. But Maya (illusion) of Isvara, the clinical Brahman of both Siva and Vishnu, have the same functionality.

Nada नाद This sound is perceptible only to a Rishi. Nad is flow; Nada is sound.

Anahata अनाहत means unbeaten, unstruck, unwound, intact; new and unbleached; a sound that is produced by means other than by beating or of two objects striking each other. It generally means ‘OM.’ In this context it means that the sound is potentially existent, as in thought, preverbal in its evolution and expression. It is latent sound, ready to unwind from the mind and find expression. Analogy used to hear the unstruck sound is to occlude or cover both your ears with the cupped palms and hear the buzz. Here it is not really an unstruck sound, because the blood flow in the capillaries and other blood vessels striking the vessel walls create that sound which is perceived by the auditory apparatus and interpreted as buzz by the hearing area of the brain. Anyhow that conveys the idea what an unstruck sound is.

Ahata means struck, or beaten as a drum. It is a struck sound; it has a known origin. It encompasses all sounds heard and unheard by humans within the decibel and frequency range of animals and humans. It is unlike Nāda which is heard only by Rishis or Seers.
Sound is of divine origin. In combination with Bindu (http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/BINDU.htm) (Light, Point), Nāda/Nada is the incorporeal cause of (this material world, including) personal god Siva (as Consciousness) and Sakti (as energy/quality-manifestations of Consciousness), from whom all tattvas (http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/TATTVAS-36.htm) and universe originated.

http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/SOUND.htm

Thank you :) and sorry for the long post.
(going back to my hermit cave)

[Shadowman]

Hello Fred,

For us relative creatures, we are not as One. We still live in a relative existence, we still in birth death extistences.
It's only on forums like this that people believe they are already enlightened.

There are Bardos in life and in death.

Tony

Hi Tony,

Discrimination between the transient forms, including all thoughts, and the eternal awareness in which they appear, is the key to discovering whether you are really in birth death existence.

The relative illusion of separate forms appears in the mind’s eye (I), the ego, the transient subjective self.

It is just an expression, a thought, of this transient I, this ego, to say "we are not as One". Or that "we still live in a relative existence '. It is the ego that lives in relative existence, not your true Self, not the Tathagata. The eternal Self, by whatever label you wish to use, never became separated, never became imperfect, never fell into relative existence.

The illusion of separation happens only in the mind, as a result of the illusory “I”, the ego, the temporal subject, identified with mind/body. As long as there is a separate relative subject, there is a separate objective relative world that goes along with it. It is like when you have a nightmare. The suffering seems real to the dream character while dreaming, but once you awaken, neither the dream character nor the suffering were real.

Enlightenment therefore, is a paradox. You cannot go “home” if you already are home. In relative terms though, enlightenment happens to the projected or, if you prefer, the reflected self in the mind. Without thought, this transient entity dissolves, and the objective separate world that it was witness to, dissolves along with it. What remains is that which was obscured, but was always there. Eternal, whole, blissful, conceptually beyond any description which does it justice.

Certainly there are some ego’s who be lie ve they are enlightened. But belief’s are of the ego, the mind. As long as you be lie ve, or identify, with an apparently separate body/mind, it will be difficult to recognise one who has transcended the illusion of duality, who is altogether beyond mind, yet may use it to communicate to "sleeping Buddha's".

Some have said an enlightened being does not proclaim their attainment, this is not so. But if they do so, it is out of compassion, to assist others to awaken. How you interpret an awakened one’s words and silence will depend on your own understanding...at least until your own awakening...

Then, praising Bodhisattva Kasyapa, the Buddha said: "Well said, well said, O good man! You have not yet arrived at All-Knowledge, but I am he who has attained it. You now ask about the deepest depths of the undisclosed doctrine. Now, O good man! I, sitting under the Bodhi Tree, first attained right Enlightenment.

Ch 4 Mahaparinirvana Sutra

So, in absolute terms, in reality, you are already “that”. In relative terms the only difference between you and Buddha is identification. Buddha identifies (existentially) with what is eternal and real, while the ego identifies (conceptually) with what is transient and unreal...and the really great news is that all awaken to this truth, this bliss, this eternity, eventually.

Then the Buddha said to all the bhiksus: "Hear me well, hear me well! Now, you mention the case of an intoxicated person. This refers to knowledge, but not the signification. What do I mean by signification? The intoxicated person sees the sun and moon, which do not move, but he thinks they do. The same is the case with beings. As all illusion and ignorance overhang [the mind], the mind turns upside down and takes Self for non-Self, Eternal for non-Eternal, Purity as non-Pure, and Bliss as sorrow. Overhung by illusion, this thought arises. Though this thought arises, the meaning is not gained [realised]. This is as in the case of the intoxicated person who takes what does not move as moving. The Self’ signifies the Buddha; ’the Eternal’ signifies the Dharmakaya; ’Bliss’ signifies Nirvana, and ’the Pure’ signifies Dharma.

Ch 3 Mahaparinirvana Sutra

For those so inclined, a close reading of Chapter 12 of the Mahaparinirvana Sutra, On the Nature of the Tathagata, is recommended.

With Love,
tim

[Tony]

Sentient beings live in a confused deluded relative mental dream, that has no reality. We are already reality, but do not recognise it.

One of the problems with the "New Age" philosophies, which basically use ancient teachings and water them down in order to be more pleasing to the ego, is that of....YOU ARE ALREADY ENLIGHTENED! So there is nothing to do.

At an advanced level of a yogi who knows the true nature of the emotions as being wisdoms, there is indeed nothing to do.
But at street level, there is much purification, clarity and stillness needed in order to do nothing.

Compassion, empathy and love are needed in this world, to be able to communicate and understand others' points of view, and work with that.

This thread is about mantras, which can sometimes help. It is supplicating that which inspires. To solve a problem, we sometimes need something more powerful than our ordinary understanding. Mantra and supplication do seem to work, but I cannot explain it! Devotion works...everything seems different!

This approach doesn't appeal to everyone...it didn't to me! I had a huge disagreement with my teacher - in public! Somehow, this inner conflict changed my life: I still cannot put my finger on it, but it seemed there was an injection of a certain amount of clarity.

Whatever works - try it! If it doesn't, try something else! Test it, test it, test it! Then drop it, drop it, drop it!

"Not this, not this, thou art that"....then "Not this" to that as well!





Tony

[shijo]

I only chant one mantra,the teacher of all buddhas throughout past present and future,the incomparable nam myo ho renege kyo.I have managed to flow with this teaching for thirty three years now and have experienced wonder and transformation.regards to all who seek and to all that have found.

[shijo]

Lol,I spelt it wrong it's nam myo ho renge kyo,the Buddha nature inherent in all phenomena and found in the depths of the lotus sutra.

[Tony]

This can happen if you have too many mantras!!!

oPh59jOoiEs

[Shadowman]

Sentient beings live in a confused deluded relative mental dream, that has no reality. We are already reality, but do not recognise it.

One of the problems with the "New Age" philosophies, which basically use ancient teachings and water them down in order to be more pleasing to the ego, is that of....YOU ARE ALREADY ENLIGHTENED! So there is nothing to do.

At an advanced level of a yogi who knows the true nature of the emotions as being wisdoms, there is indeed nothing to do.
But at street level, there is much purification, clarity and stillness needed in order to do nothing.

Compassion, empathy and love are needed in this world, to be able to communicate and understand others' points of view, and work with that.

This thread is about mantras, which can sometimes help. It is supplicating that which inspires. To solve a problem, we sometimes need something more powerful than our ordinary understanding. Mantra and supplication do seem to work, but I cannot explain it! Devotion works...everything seems different!

This approach doesn't appeal to everyone...it didn't to me! I had a huge disagreement with my teacher - in public! Somehow, this inner conflict changed my life: I still cannot put my finger on it, but it seemed there was an injection of a certain amount of clarity.

Whatever works - try it! If it doesn't, try something else! Test it, test it, test it! Then drop it, drop it, drop it!

"Not this, not this, thou art that"....then "Not this" to that as well!

Tony

Sentient beings live in a confused deluded relative mental dream, that has no reality. We are already reality, but do not recognize it.

Ego’s live in a confused deluded relative mental dream, that has no reality. There is no we in reality, there is just sentient being. The ego, ie the mental subject, can neither recognize nor become awareness. Mickey Mouse’s tears are not real, because Mickey Mouse is not real.

One of the problems with the "New Age" philosophies, which basically use ancient teachings and water them down in order to be more pleasing to the ego, is that of....YOU ARE ALREADY ENLIGHTENED! So there is nothing to do.

Perhaps. Many neo advaitins in the Ramana/Papaji/Gangaji/Sherman (whom all are/were enlightened, by the way) lineage may prematurely believe they are enlightened. But it is short lived, and learning discrimination is part of the journey. Until genuine enlightenment is attained, the old habits of the ego - fear, desire, anger, hatred, etc will still be experienced. They (the faux enlightened) also present less of an obstacle than those who mistakenly say enlightenment is not possible, for whatever reason.

I also made the clear distinction between absolute and relative enlightenment. You are quite correct that in the majority of cases to transcend the illusion of the ego and identification with the mind requires great determination, great effort, and consistent earnest practice, at least initially.

At an advanced level of a yogi who knows the true nature of the emotions as being wisdoms, there is indeed nothing to do. But at street level, there is much purification, clarity and stillness needed in order to do nothing. Compassion, empathy and love are needed in this world, to be able to communicate and understand others' points of view, and work with that.

Yes, but an ego cannot be genuinely compassionate, nor have genuine empathy. There is always an agenda, even if that agenda is identification with a saintly persona. Both golden chains and iron chains bind one to duality. As long as you identify with a body/mind compassion and empathy will be something you do, and subject to distortion. Once enlightened, however, compassion, wisdom and empathy are more accurately who you are ie God is love, not God is loving.

This thread is about mantras, which can sometimes help. It is supplicating that which inspires. To solve a problem, we sometimes need something more powerful than our ordinary understanding. Mantra and supplication do seem to work, but I cannot explain it! Devotion works...everything seems different!

Yes, I agree, and it may appear I have gone off topic, at least indirectly. Ultimately the purpose of mantra’s, like the purpose of Yoga, Dhyana, Jnana and Prayer, is union with the divine. Mantra’s focus and strengthen the mind, along with developing submission or surrender. Once strength of mind is developed, the focus of attention should be turned within, to the source. The best surrender is to surrender the surrenderer, lol.

While initially mantra’s may focus on a form, phrase, word or image symbolic of what one is trying to develop ie compassion or unconditional love, Chris is quite correct in saying that in the end it goes to, like the stick that pokes the pyre and is itself burned finally.

This approach doesn't appeal to everyone...it didn't to me! I had a huge disagreement with my teacher - in public! Somehow, this inner conflict changed my life: I still cannot put my finger on it, but it seemed there was an injection of a certain amount of clarity.

Whatever works - try it! If it doesn't, try something else! Test it, test it, test it! Then drop it, drop it, drop it!

"Not this, not this, thou art that"....then "Not this" to that as well!

Well said. A man approached Siddhartha with both hands behind his back, In one hand he held a flower. In the other he held a diamond. In the hope of pleasing Buddha he first offered the flower...

“drop it” Said Buddha. So next he offered the diamond
“drop it” Said Buddha. The man tried to think hard of what to do or say next
“drop it, too” Said Buddha.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHgp1Uid1w

If it appears I am being pedantic, in responding to your posts, and your various choice of words, then know this. I was drawn to this forum by the energies of four people in particular who are close to attaining the goal. You are one of them. I had been following your posts for some time prior to joining. If you disagree with anything I have said, or would like clarification on any aspect, feel free to ask candidly or criticize directly, no offense will be taken. Or if you prefer pm me. Respect,

All (that is) is well. (and yes, relatively, all is far from well)

With Love/Namaste,
tim

[Tony]

Dear Tim,

Your comments are appreciated.
Gradually our paths of confusion clears,
revealing a subtler path, until there is no path.

Which never existed in the first place.


All the best,
Tony