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rgray222
9th September 2012, 19:46
I have believed for a long time that mans efforts to attain a new level of enlightenment is admirable but it is probably not realistic to think that we can do this completely on our own. How exactly would it work, would one person at a time have an epiphany or does every man woman and child wake up on the same day and say.............oh, now I get it! 

More importantly, what is it that we are going to get. What is enlightenment, what exactly are we going to awaken to, some might say to a higher level of understanding, that's great but what are we suppose to understand.

Some people, in particular Immanuel Kant, said to achieve enlightenment our lives must be devoid of church and state paternalism so each person would be free to use their own intellect. Well, that's nice but use our intellect for what purpose, to what end.

If you look at Buddha's teaching it defines enlightenment as awakening to a great reality most of us never perceive. No disrespect to Buddha but what good is that if most of us will never reach this great reality.  Buddha goes on to say that a person who has 'it', has nothing and has something. I don't mean to offend anyone but that sounds like double talk. It is a bit like reading the bible, it is left up to interpretation so everyone has their own take on what 'it' is.

Others put enlightenment in a spiritual or religious context. In spiritual terms the word (enlightenment) seems to mean a deep understanding or insight  into the mind of God, a profound spiritual understanding or a fundamentally changed consciousness whereby everything is perceived as unity. Well that sounds wonderful but what does it really mean. Once again it seems (at least to me) to be double speak. Nice words full of wisdom but nothing tangible that you can get your mind around.  What in the world are we suppose to be unified with, the universe, God, Mankind, love, aliens, the earth, environment or all of it! Please don't interpret this is being atheist or anti Creator or God but I believe organized religion has done more harm to the enlightenment process than any other institution on the planet. You would have to be barren of your senses not to believe in a Creator but 'organized religion' has its own doctrine and its own agenda and many times it is completely at odds with what the Creator (God) wants us to understand.

Ascension, what exactly does that mean, ascension to me is found in the new testament, it means that the resurrected Jesus was taken to heaven in his resurrected body in the presence of eleven apostles occurring 40 days after the resurrection. It is also suppose to happen in reverse with the second coming of Christ. Now that is a really strange thought............................ reverse ascension.

So the conclusion that I have reached is that enlightenment is different for different people. Each person has to come to grips with certain things in their life while living in world that is both wonderful and tragic at the same time. We are bombarded with negative distractions almost every minute of our lives, politics,news, war, organized religion, sickness,famine, death and corruption to name just a few. At the same time we see the wonderful charity of mankind, heartwarming stories about man's kindness and generosity, art that touches your soul, religious stories that make you believe that there is a creator or higher being, new and precious life being brought into the world, food, pleasure, warmth and love.

So how are we to make sense of life to attain a higher level of enlightenment in the midst of all this intentional chaos. The answer, I believe, is that we have to prepare ourselves and no matter how hard it is we must stay focused. Many people are already doing it through meditation, talks, lectures, forums, classes and yes, even studying some aspects of religion. The internet has probably been the biggest and most useful tool to help us prepare for this new higher level of understanding that has come along in our lifetime. There seem to be more people searching now then ever before, so many have reached the conclusion that ..........'there must be more then just my everyday existence.' No one road is the right or wrong road, they all lead to the same place.

Then what happens if your physical body expires before you reach this new stage of enlightenment. I truly believe that if you have made the effort, the knowledge and the wisdom you have gained goes along with your soul to the next level of existence.

I don't think this stuff is hard to get but I do think that it is elusive. It is a bit like riding a bike for the first time or swimming, skiing, learning a language, if you can remember far enough back it's like learning to read. You certainly can expect some bumps and bruises along the way but eventually say......I get it, that is how it works and you realize that your life is so much better for making the effort. When you finally get whatever it is that you are putting the effort towards you say.......I want to live in this moment for the rest of time and to a certain extent you do!

So we do the prep work, we read, we study, discuss and is it enough, for some people it probably is. People that are truly committed to believing in their 'cause or way of life'. This is probably true of deeply religious people, monks, nuns, priest, rabbi's. Where does that leave the rest of us.

I think we need a nudge or a jolt from an outside source. Knowledge of other intelligent rational life in the universe is probably the fastest and most effective way of destroying most people normal and recreating a new reality, in essence lifting people consciousness or attaining the first level of enlightenment. I believe deep with my being that we were born with knowledge that we spend a lifetime trying to unlock. I truly believe that we are children born in the stars and we are but one species of life in a cosmos that contains thousands if not millions of others intelligent rational species. We were born with this information imprinted on our DNA, on every fiber of our being but this truth or information was somehow blocked from our consciousness. For lack of a better term a 'collective amnesia' that we must spend a lifetime attempting to break through!

Once you attain that knowledge and make that commitment you want to live in that moment for the rest of time but you can't help thinking if I have only learned to stand up and I am not even walking yet what other knowledge is in the universe, it must certainly be beyond amazing.

Life is a journey of sorts and if you never put your first foot on the road you will never reach your destination.

I would be curious to hear how others feel about this subject!

deridan
9th September 2012, 20:03
it means nothing to me.
the path is as Buddha said, it brings something and nothing...
maybe a Charkra analogy would help to explain it. (though i'm no expert, know not if it can be categorized into that category, however a useful summative tool. you should know that nietszche derided kant as being attached to his structures...university in that case,, so who is free.. lets leave a part of that to others observation). The decision to propel along the path of enlightenment may come from enmuddled charkra points. so we propel, and then we become aware of more, much like the liminal barrier {..rhyme word to describe an unknown point, crossed then we know its crossed though}, once we cross it our old priorities are re-prioritized. The spirit essence then counts as something, but applicable over the old areas from whence our search began, they count as nothing.

glad for reading your master thought:
. For lack of a better term a 'collective amnesia' that we must spend a lifetime attempting to break through!

much as you, i hope for a next point .guess this is where the alluding story related to J comes about from, a tale to say what we desire. (tales for me aren't tales, but substances of a curious matter)

another bob
9th September 2012, 20:43
What is enlightenment...

Greetings, Friend!

At the risk of just adding more concepts to a subject that is already pretty confusing (at least in most people's minds), here's a fellow who speaks clearly about the matter:



jLQD90Las5c


Also, you may notice that there is a lengthy, on-going thread here at the forum exploring the subject:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.

Blessings!


PS: as far as Ascencion, there is endless speculation, and that's about it.

Fred Steeves
9th September 2012, 21:15
Hi rgray222. You know it's funny, much as I appreciate the Buddhist teachings, I also think we could do just fine without pie in the sky terms like enlightenment. Personally, I think "know yourself" is much more practical.

Ascension? Same as enlightened, but with bells and whistles.(LOL) http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/new-year/party-smiley-emoticon.gif

Cheers,
Fred

Nanoo Nanoo
9th September 2012, 21:27
Rgray222

Get to know your self and the text you speak of will make sence.

Enlightenment is a journey of qualification. Its not like wanting to become a police officer, 6 months training and they give you a gun and power. we all know how rediculously bad thats turned out.

If you want enlightenment you need to realky apply your self, study, meditate, learn patience, non judgement, appreciation for life love and the earth. there are no quick ways or pills to swallow that will fast track you.

Start now and perhaps, depending on your abilities, in a few years time you will see great results.

The gifts of enlightenment are truly more about understandingmwhat we call spirituality but is melery science. Science in the respect that it is technology lumped under the hocus pocus of witch craft etc because we havent been able to measure its effects in a scientific manner. But i can assure you its a science.

Anyhoo, i wish you all the best. First thing i think you should do is practice acceptance. This will be your first hurdle.

Best

N
N

ghostrider
10th September 2012, 01:34
look in the mirror, step away from the world , take a breath, and re-educate yourself about everything you think you know. believe no one but let your heart guide you. thats enlightenment to me.

rgray222
10th September 2012, 03:28
Hi rgray222. You know it's funny, much as I appreciate the Buddhist teachings, I also think we could do just fine without pie in the sky terms like enlightenment. Personally, I think "know yourself" is much more practical.
Ascension? Same as enlightened, but with bells and whistles.(LOL)
Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred
To a certain extent I agree with you, the word enlightenment has been thrown around rather freely but I think that is a product of 'enlightenment' meaning different things to different people. There is a lot of pie in the sky stuff that gets blended in with the word but there is also a lot of really good information and teachings associated with that one word alone. However you want to define it or categorize is fine with me, I think it warrants a great deal of discussion because it (at least to me) is something we are all striving towards!

Jenci
10th September 2012, 06:06
Hi rgray222. You know it's funny, much as I appreciate the Buddhist teachings, I also think we could do just fine without pie in the sky terms like enlightenment. Personally, I think "know yourself" is much more practical.
Ascension? Same as enlightened, but with bells and whistles.(LOL)
Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred
To a certain extent I agree with you, the word enlightenment has been thrown around rather freely but I think that is a product of 'enlightenment' meaning different things to different people. There is a lot of pie in the sky stuff that gets blended in with the word but there is also a lot of really good information and teachings associated with that one word alone. However you want to define it or categorize is fine with me, I think it warrants a great deal of discussion because it (at least to me) is something we are all striving towards!

Hi rgray,


I agree that enlightenment has different meanings for different people but if anyone is seeking enlightenment it is good to know what it is that they are seeking, otherwise with so much confusing information and definitions they could be led the wrong way.

Adyashanti, in the video above another bob posted, sums it up perfectly for me. It's perceiving without the distortion of egoic consciousness.

If enlightenment is being sought anything which feeds egoic consciousness is going to prevent it from happening. Much I see in the way of information on spiritual practices feeds egoic consciousness and this is what Adyashanti means by people spending a lot of time chasing their tails.

Enlightenment is not for everyone nor is it wanted by everyone. Very often the veil of egoic consciousness gets lifted temporarily and this sets the seeker on the path to enlightenment because that temporary glimpse of truth itself becomes the inner calling and it will overtake all other motivation and ambition in life.

When this happens there is much that can be done in the way of the correct spiritual practises which do not feed the egoic consciousness.


Jeanette

greybeard
10th September 2012, 10:59
Here's a thought.
What if there is no missing link?

God came along and said to the monkeys, Im looking for volunteers Im planing a new species called human and volunteers will be upgraded in many ways.
Most of the monkeys said thanks but no thanks--- the side affects of becoming human will not suit us-- we like our turf wars and animal nature.
Some said Ok and the human race was born.

So what if we are in a similar situation now?
The Creator is possibly in the process of upgrading those who are ready to let go of egoic--me first thinking.

I suspect the energy from the sun which scientists say is now different, may well affect human DNA and bring about change for many if not for all.

Just a thought--- a maybe so.

Chris

rgray222
11th September 2012, 03:48
Here's a thought.
What if there is no missing link?

God came along and said to the monkeys, Im looking for volunteers Im planing a new species called human and volunteers will be upgraded in many ways.
Most of the monkeys said thanks but no thanks--- the side affects of becoming human will not suit us-- we like our turf wars and animal nature.
Some said Ok and the human race was born.

So what if we are in a similar situation now?
The Creator is possibly in the process of upgrading those who are ready to let go of egoic--me first thinking.

I suspect the energy from the sun which scientists say is now different, may well affect human DNA and bring about change for many if not for all.

Just a thought--- a maybe so.

Chris

Hi Chris
Hope you are well
I do not believe that we are here by accident or happenstance, I truly believe that we are here by choice, as odd as it may sound I also believe that we have made a deal (for lack of a better word) to resolve some issues and to experience somethings that cannot be experienced as a soul. By being here and using what little time we have correctly it goes a long way to move us closer to where we ultimately need to be. Also it is a privilege to be here as not every soul gets that opportunity. Each human life on this planet is as important as the next without any exceptions and the sooner we all realize that the faster things will change. From an autistic child, to a criminal in jail to the CEO of the fortune 100 firm there is no difference whatsoever. People are just going through exactly what our soul needs to go through. Of course ego does get in the way for most people not just the wealthy or connected. Ego rears it ugly head up just about everywhere. The best I can figure is we should be acutely aware of our ego and recognize it is something we all have it is up to each person to hold that ego in check and never let it get the best of us or anyone else.
So in a way maybe the monkeys that said yes I will go are attempting to become human 2.0
By the way I read a great article in one of the scientific journals about CME and the sun in general having a tremendous affect on human cells. It also talked about cell memory in transplant patients. If I can find the link I will post it but it was fascinating.
R

we-R-one
11th September 2012, 06:00
I have believed for a long time that mans efforts to attain a new level of enlightenment is admirable but it is probably not realistic to think that we can do this completely on our own. How exactly would it work, would one person at a time have an epiphany or does every man woman and child wake up on the same day and say.............oh, now I get it! 

So how are we to make sense of life to attain a higher level of enlightenment in the midst of all this intentional chaos. The answer, I believe, is that we have to prepare ourselves and no matter how hard it is we must stay focused. Many people are already doing it through meditation, talks, lectures, forums, classes and yes, even studying some aspects of religion. The internet has probably been the biggest and most useful tool to help us prepare for this new higher level of understanding that has come along in our lifetime. There seem to be more people searching now then ever before, so many have reached the conclusion that ..........'there must be more then just my everyday existence.' No one road is the right or wrong road, they all lead to the same place.

I'd like to add something to this concept that may help in one's understanding. I don't see this posted very often........ The transition taking place was never meant to be done by one person and science will show you that it would be physically impossible based on the concept of Holographic Universe. It will take several of us laying down the foundation for this change to occur. I love how Gregg Braden describes in a simple manner, what is all ready transpiring.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXBnrLPVTVY



You don't have to be a scientist to understand; this is happening all around you and it's quite apparent in the volume of people who are continuing to wake up. The difficult part is, once they wake up, they don't know what to do. The next step should be emotional clearing and that is where the "intentional chaos" becomes a valuable tool.

May I suggest that you re-define this phrase by perceiving the definition of chaos as "fuel" rather than the literal meaning you intended for it to be? The "intentional chaos" serves a significant purpose that is misunderstood my most because there is a 3D perception that this phrase can only imply one thing. I am asking that you re-think this definition and perceive the "intentional chaos" as your fuel to transmute the negative energy into positive. If the planet is headed toward an increased frequency, one has to ask....what is required to help make this transition? What does one need to create a higher frequency? One needs fuel and that is the purpose of "intentional chaos". Can you see how this makes sense?

Our job is to learn how to transform that "intentional chaos" from a negative energy to a positive. And how do we do that? Through forgiveness, love and compassion, all the emotions of higher frequencies, NOT by harboring emotions of fear, anger, hate and eye for an eye concepts. When more and more people make this choice, it is through the intrinsic nature of the holographic universe that the transformation of this planet will take shape.

The chaos around you will most likely increase before it gets better in order to ensure the success of this transition. We have all the fuel we need - how many people "get it" will determine how fast we can expect change to take place. The science is there to validate for those who cannot see or have yet to experience what some of us all ready know to be true.......and that is how you,
"make sense of life to attain a higher level of enlightenment in the midst of all this intentional chaos."

Stop arguing with one another, stop blaming, stop judging, stop trying to be right all the time, stop the tit for a tat fights, drop the ego and clean up your side of the street, clean up your karma through love, forgiveness and compassion. In doing so, your efforts will be mirrored throughout the universe which in turn, when done on a mass scale, will change this reality into one that holds the higher frequencies of love and light. So what are we all waiting for, lol?

AwakeInADream
11th September 2012, 09:23
I am a spiritual person with no particular ideology, but I was reading some Hare Krishna literature last year, about how the mind works. And as it sunk in, slowly, I found myself in a state of consciousness, which I would not describe as enlightenment, but it was interesting.(not in meditation, I walked around like this) I knew that my mind was my servant, that I was controlling it, not the other way round. This gave me great joy in the moment, to know that I could feel how I wanted to feel. Naturally as a spiritual person I then turned to God and said 'Is this it? Am I happy now? Am I truly fulfilled?' and there was no answer. This feeling passed and I came to the conclusion that total control of the mind is a wonderful thing and that all our fears are mere illusions, but non of this really matters if we don't know God. Control is the first step I guess (I do not know), the next enlightenment. Enlightenment to me is only to know God as I knew him once before in a forgotten dream(seriously I did, he was triune, that's all I know,higher telepathy,no words to remember).(BTW when I say 'he' I mean 'Light' I don't know what it was, guide/angel??? in a white robe talked to me mind to mind, made me understand God, and when I awakened it was gone..) This conscious mind is not capable of understanding God, but i'm not too sure that the God conscious mind is capable of living this life... If I were with God now I wouldn't want to be here....

rgray222
11th September 2012, 13:27
I am a spiritual person with no particular ideology, but I was reading some Hare Krishna literature last year, about how the mind works. And as it sunk in, slowly, I found myself in a state of consciousness, which I would not describe as enlightenment, but it was interesting.(not in meditation, I walked around like this) I knew that my mind was my servant, that I was controlling it, not the other way round. This gave me great joy in the moment, to know that I could feel how I wanted to feel. Naturally as a spiritual person I then turned to God and said 'Is this it? Am I happy now? Am I truly fulfilled?' and there was no answer. This feeling passed and I came to the conclusion that total control of the mind is a wonderful thing and that all our fears are mere illusions, but non of this really matters if we don't know God. Control is the first step I guess (I do not know), the next enlightenment. Enlightenment to me is only to know God as I knew him once before in a forgotten dream(seriously I did, he was triune, that's all I know,higher telepathy,no words to remember).(BTW when I say 'he' I mean 'Light' I don't know what it was, guide/angel??? in a white robe talked to me mind to mind, made me understand God, and when I awakened it was gone..) This conscious mind is not capable of understanding God, but i'm not too sure that the God conscious mind is capable of living this life... If I were with God now I wouldn't want to be here....

Over the years I have experienced exactly what you are calling "a state of consciousness", the term that I have always used is a "a moment of absolute Clarity". It has never been a state of mind that I have intentionally tried to achieve, it has always happened when I think about something for several days if not longer. Sometimes it could be a political issue, family problem, societal problem etc. It has to percolate around in my conscious and subconscious mind for quite sometime before I reach this level of understanding or "clarity". Eventually I have an ah-ha moment and it all seems to make sense. Once you achieve this level of clarity it always brings a smile to your face because the answer is always so simple and basic, you know in every fiber of your being that you have hit upon the correct answer. I always find my myself marveling, not at the answer, but the process that you went through to get there. The 'answer' that you have come up with no longer seems important and you do not dwell on it for long but at least for a few hours you know that the world does have answers for you if you look hard enough and in the right places. You wish you could live in the moment of clarity forever............................... but life goes on and it passes.