Japan & China's Island Dispute

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

http://i49.tinypic.com/a0jgrb.jpg



This is just the latest in an long ongoing dispute.

The newly appointed Japanese envoy to China died in a Tokyo hospital Sunday, officials said, ruling out any link to growing anti-Japan protests in Chinese cities over an escalating territorial row.

(Yeah right)

Shinichi Nishimiya, who was officially appointed on Tuesday, was taken to hospital after falling ill on a street near his home in the capital's fashionable Shibuya district on Thursday, according to reports.

(Assassins Creed)

"Ambassador Shinichi Nishimiya died in a hospital", the foreign ministry said in a statement. The death had "nothing to do with any accident or anti-Japanese demonstrations" in China, a foreign ministry official told AFP.

(Yup Sure Mate)

Nishimiya, a career diplomat, was to replace Uichiro Niwa at a time Japan and China are at loggerheads over a disputed island chain in the East China Sea.

(How much is the fish?)

Hundreds of protesters gathered outside Japan's embassy in Beijing on Sunday, throwing water bottles and chanting anti-Japanese slogans, a day after angry demonstrators tried to storm the building.

(Turning Japanese cars upside down and ransacking Japanese shops)

Niwa raised hackles at home when he said a plan by Tokyo's nationalist governor to buy the islands could cause a crisis between China and Japan, jeopardising economic ties.

(Japanese residents are fleeing China)

Japan insists there is no territorial dispute over islands it administers and calls Senkaku, but which China claims under the name Diaoyu.

(Basically it's kicking off)


Nishimiya had planned to leave for Beijing in October. The government is now considering a replacement from among retired foreign ministry officials, local reports said.

Well folks ..
Situation is getting bad and I haven't seen a thread on this subject yet. Usually I don't care for politics & stuff but this one has a fishy smell to it all. Officials are being murdered and it's getting ugly.

Also me and my Japanese group will be flying to Beijing later this month to do happy street performing lol.. yes I'm not kidding. We will be doing shows in a huge shopping mall where at least 800 chinese will be watching me do shows with my Japanese partner. 3 shows a day for a week. 21 shows = being watched by 20,000 chinese.

Lets just hope that things cool down a tad or we'll be toast.. or my partner will be. We have promised to do the job but the organizer has warned us that "maybe it's best if K-Bow doesn't speak in the shows" lol.. she even warned us to keep our heads down and to not speak Japanese anywhere.

I'll keep you all informed and I'll be filming and I'll try and keep you updated with whats going on.

I'm curious.. is this news reaching any of you?

[Anchor]

> I'm curious.. is this news reaching any of you?

I have a Chinese friend who told me about it, but I dont know if its been in the Aussie papers - I don't read them much.

[GarethBKK]

(How much is the fish?)

It's over gas fields, I believe. Although, the proximity to Taiwan cannot be overlooked.


I'm curious.. is this news reaching any of you?

Yes, this has been well covered in all mainstream media for several weeks. It escalated last week with the Chinese navy sending 4 vessels into Japanese waters. Here's the latest story from AJE:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/09/201291663859335183.html

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Heres how they are reporting in Japan.. sorry no translation but basically there are massive protests in over 80 cities in China. Sorry I just don't get it. China has hundreds of excuses to kick off against their government. Little bit of land thats uninhabited and lets be honest... none of them will ever see and they go nuts.. ?

Whats really going on here?

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20120916/t10015063121000.html

*******************
What is Japan's claim?

Japan's foreign ministry cites surveys in 1885 confirming they were "uninhabited" with "no trace of having been under the control of China." The government of Japan in January 1895 decided to incorporate the islands and to place a marker on one of them declaring them to be part of Japan.

But what do the Japanese say to the Chinese claim that the islands appear on Ming Dynasty maps?

Neither the Communist government that had taken over the Chinese mainland in 1949 nor the "Nationalist" Chinese government, driven to the island province of Taiwan, objected when the San Francisco Peace Treaty of 1951 placed the islands under US administrative control.

RELATED East Asia's top 5 island disputes

Why were the Americans in charge?

US forces drove the Japanese from the island prefecture of Okinawa in June 1945 in the worst Pacific battle of World War II. The islands, 220 miles southwest of Okinawa, had been governed by Okinawa under the Japanese.

When did the Chinese begin to state their claims?

The governments in Beijing and Taiwan got interested in 1970 after a United Nations study showed there might be oil and gas in the seabed around the islands. The island cluster is 76 miles from Taiwan, 92 miles from the closest Japanese island, also a part of Okinawa prefecture, and 100 miles from the coast of China.

When did Japan resume governing the islands?

Japan regained governing control in 1972 under the "reversion" of Okinawa to Japan. Since then, Japanese Coast Guard boats have been on regular patrol to prevent intrusion, mostly by Chinese fishing boats.

If Japan is so confident of its control, why do Japanese authorities keep visitors off the islands?

Japan is eager to tamp down the controversy, to retain control over the islands and surrounding waters but not to incite China.

Have the islands ever served any commercial purpose?

An enterprising Japanese buisnessman built up a facility on one of the islands for processing the bonito, a valuable fish that's abundant in nearby waters. He employed about 200 workers in the factory. The business survived for 50 years but finally failed in 1940 while imperial Japanese forces were reigning supreme over much of China, the Korean Peninsula, and Southeast Asia more than a year before bombing Pearl Harbor.

Who actually owns the islands?

The original official owner was the man who set up the fish plant. His family sold the islands to another family, and they lease them to the Japanese government. The US leases one of the islands from Japan as a firing range for jet fighters but stopped using it for target practice more than 30 years ago.

Are the islands uninhabitable or might tourism and investment some day be possible?

The islands are covered by jungle. There are no rivers, and fresh water from rainfall would be at a premium. Certain wildlife exists, however, including rare species of moles and ants. Small goats, introduced more than 30 years ago, have multiplied and become a threat to vegetation.

What about the proposal by Tokyo Gov. Shintaro Ishihara to buy the islands? Will that help or hinder development?

That's viewed as a right-wing gesture that's extremely upsetting to the Chinese. Japanese authorities don't want him to do anything with the islands. Some day, however, entrepreneurs might build resorts and fish processing plants – and oil interests might set up facilities if exploration reveals deposits.

Might it be possible to resolve this dispute through negotiations – or perhaps a decision by the International Court of Justice?

China and Taiwan are equally adamant about the Chinese claim to the islands. There appears to be no middle ground.

[syrwong]

I think the situation is deteriorating rapidly, and will lead to a naval battle and then a big war. I can see both nations are not backing down, even showing a willingness to go to war. This is a rather unseen attitude for China.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

I think the situation is deteriorating rapidly, and will lead to a naval battle and then a big war. I can see both nations are not backing down, even showing a willingness to go to war. This is a rather unseen attitude for China.

I agree. It's going to get bad on the 18th for obvious reasons.. Whats the vibe like in Honk Kong? Is it only on the news or can you feel the tension on the streets? We are going to Beijing & then on to Nanjing on the 28th. Doubt it would of calmed down by then. It's actually escalating at an alarming rate. 80 cities in China taking part now.

[Airwooz]

I think the situation is deteriorating rapidly, and will lead to a naval battle and then a big war. I can see both nations are not backing down, even showing a willingness to go to war. This is a rather unseen attitude for China.

No, the situation shows the PARTY is the only solution to those thugs(so called protester), therefore don't ever try to overthrow the current government, especially before National Communist Party Congress begin. AS we all know no protest without government's permission in China.

I am so tired to see the stupid things happan again and again, when can they wake up to the reality and say no to the brainwash machine ?!

[Airwooz]

I think the situation is deteriorating rapidly, and will lead to a naval battle and then a big war. I can see both nations are not backing down, even showing a willingness to go to war. This is a rather unseen attitude for China.

I agree. It's going to get bad on the 18th for obvious reasons.. Whats the vibe like in Honk Kong? Is it only on the news or can you feel the tension on the streets? We are going to Beijing & then on to Nanjing on the 28th. Doubt it would of calmed down by then. It's actually escalating at an alarming rate. 80 cities in China taking part now.

Don't worry, the tension situation will eveventually disappear quietly after 18th, everything is under government's control precisely.

After the event many will be arrested, things will go back to normal like it never happened.

[mosquito]

What I find severely depressing is the ease with which the government has managed to induce so much hatred in so many people so quickly. Admitedly, mutual hatred is always simmering under the surface, not helped by certain Japanese politicians refusal to admit to the attrocities commited in Nanjing.

Frankly, it's f*cking pathetic - Skidabomski's given a very succinct history of this particular dispute, why it is that the Chinese government has suddenly decided to get itsself worked up about these islands is beyond me. My hope is that it's an indication they're easing off on their ridiculous claim to all the land in the South China sea, (now THERE'S a powder keg we don't want ignited) and that they'll be content to rattle their childish sabres in the direction of the Japanese for a bit.

After all this time in China and strenuosly defending the country on this forum against all the crass stupidity of the Americans, I find it irksome in the extreme that they've been behaving like this. I've talked with supposedly intelligent people about the South China sea dispute, and all they can do is regurgitate the assinine government crap about "historical claims".

With both Japan and China culturally incapable of giving way, the only hope is that it will gently simmer for a while and then die down. Idiotic governments and their equally idiotic media outlets would do well to not fan the flames any further.

[ThePythonicCow]

Frankly, it's f*cking pathetic - Skidabomski's given a very succinct history of this particular dispute, why it is that the Chinese government has suddenly decided to get itsself worked up about these islands is beyond me.
Wild guess here ... perhaps China is "sending a message" to Japan. Japan seems like it might be fighting an internal struggle, between continuing to support the US, and moving closer to China. Perhaps Japan with the recent death of their Financial Service Minister Tadahiro, amongst other events, has been leaning more toward the US again, and China is reminding Japan that continuing to do so could be dangerous.

[syrwong]

I think the situation is deteriorating rapidly, and will lead to a naval battle and then a big war. I can see both nations are not backing down, even showing a willingness to go to war. This is a rather unseen attitude for China.

I agree. It's going to get bad on the 18th for obvious reasons.. Whats the vibe like in Honk Kong? Is it only on the news or can you feel the tension on the streets? We are going to Beijing & then on to Nanjing on the 28th. Doubt it would of calmed down by then. It's actually escalating at an alarming rate. 80 cities in China taking part now.

Not much is happening in Hong Kong. Only a thousand protesters on Sunday and nonviolent. I doubt if there is anything tomorrow, a working day. Hong Kong people are generally not anti-Japanese, many even are fond of things Japanese. Anti-Japanese feeligs are genuine in China, as their grand parents and parents suffered a lot under the occupation. There are unpleasant posters everywhere too. Attributing the protests all to the Government is naiive.

Many territorial disputes have their origin in the great powers giving land that belonged to someone else to the would be allies after the Seond World War. This is only one example. These free gifts are good preparations for future wars.

[yuhui]

Yesterday I was in a city where there was a government approved protest going on against Japanese "violating" China's "sovereignty".
Some roads are blocked, I think it was because the order from the local government to control the "situation".
Schools are not allowed to go, participants are mostly the "people from the society", taxi driver said.
I think I have never seen so many mainstream news about one topic in international relations. And I hear many people talking about "if there is a war...", and I feel sad how these people who are so close to me talking about a war so calmly. And truly they did not mean to approve it (because of so-called nationalism or history whatever) nor disapprove it. They know if there is a war, ordinary people would be the sacrifice, yet they say "we may not have other things, but we have a lot of people."

This Island Dispute is not a new issue, why it suddenly becomes this "big problem"?

[ThePythonicCow]

This Island Dispute is not a new issue, why it suddenly becomes this "big problem"?
Like most arguments, the superficial bone of contention is seldom the real issue.

[bogeyman]

Makes me wonder whether they have discovered oil or something on these Islands.:confused:

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Here's a little update of what has happened so far.

Got on the plane and it was without a surprise nearly empty. When we booked the flight 3 months ago they were struggling to find us seats. The media and terror-vision had made this happen. Not to complain though, nothing better than spreading out on 3 seats. So the flight from Tokyo to Beijing was comfortable.

Next day we arrived at the shopping center and there were over 100,000 chinese flowing through the new shopping center. We did our show and it went really well. They all knew my partner is Japanese as it says so on the advertising boards. Not 1 attack. In fact people are thanking us for coming and everyone is enjoying the shows.

We have played with the police and the security and used them as volunteers to the crowds delight.

Avalon looks funny in the threads with big spaces where you all post you-tube videos.. they really are banned here. So is Facebook and Twitter which I actually think is a good thing.

Now we are relaxing and just enjoying China for all the wonderful things they have here. One of them is the people. They are amazing workers and have the zest in life to strive forward that puts most western countries to shame. They also have a wonderful fashion. They wear what they want to wear and act proud as sh*t. I love that..

I was walking past a jewelry store and my misses says " why do they have a rose in the window?" I laughed because the day before I had seen a bunch of old ladies all peering into the shop window and then some impatient woman pushed her way through and stuck her head in front of every to see what the fuss was about and BOOM !! the windows shook as she was holding her head. She hadn't realized there was a thick glass window. Thus they stuck a rose on the glass to prevent anyone else doing the same.
They have a fountain surrounding our stage and 12 people fell in on the first day.. People tumbling down escalators and well all I can say it's bloody fantastic.

Outside the shopping center is a whole different world with silent motorbikes zooming past your face regardless if your on the pavement or on the road with old ladies being the speediest of them all. It's a fun crazy and very deep place.

They have a very spiritual understanding that they never brag about. (I find this very cool)

Stupid and clumsy in many ways but fantastic and carefree and I'm loving the experience and I knew that I would. My Japanese friends are openly talking in Japanese and there is nothing to worry about. Yes there might be one lunatic that could spoil it but karma is good here and the journey will be a success.

I have some great pictures but I'm waiting for the trip to be over and I'll post the best ones. We are still only 2 days into the trip so lots can happen.

Ski-

[Rocky_Shorz]

I think the situation is deteriorating rapidly, and will lead to a naval battle and then a big war. I can see both nations are not backing down, even showing a willingness to go to war. This is a rather unseen attitude for China.

I agree. It's going to get bad on the 18th for obvious reasons.. Whats the vibe like in Honk Kong? Is it only on the news or can you feel the tension on the streets? We are going to Beijing & then on to Nanjing on the 28th. Doubt it would of calmed down by then. It's actually escalating at an alarming rate. 80 cities in China taking part now.

amazing how quickly it quieted back down...

must have been they heard Funny Bones was coming...

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Foods/funnybones.JPG

[Flash]

While China fight with Japan, the information on the western front, Iran, is not as much interesting in the East. Just a guess, some diversion for something happening elsewhere. May be the earth is being divised amongst the powerfull and Japan does not know yet where the allegieance will be. Who knows.

[Rocky_Shorz]

saber rattling by new governments in both countries... Orchestrated insanity...

I'm just glad North Korea isn't in the spotlight in the middle... ;)