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Reaver
20th September 2012, 20:48
From my point of view a lot of the work to be done is on an individual level. If you get a group of broken people, then it's very likely that their expressions being imprinted in the physical realm will be broken along with the typical products to try and mask the bothersome anxiety. But one cannot forget the collective part either, not that you couldn't learn all by yourself, but establishing feedback with other people can accelerate the learning process.

The trick comes when you try to remain vigilant as to not fall into a toxic side of either narrative, that is you should try not to fall into blind egocentrism and also not to fall into dependence, particularly psychological/emotional dependence on other people, you know some people seem to crave the next book coming from X or Y personality from a particular sector of the informational field, instead of exploring the older works from people who got into it before.

At the same time you must be careful not to adapt the whole mindset of another person, the current system relies a lot on people's need/want for emulation... heck just look at the concept of role models and how they are encouraged in the schooling system. Nothing like merging your own identity with the small and big fascist idealists.

And you see, by looking at the natural systems and at human history itself you may get ideas on how to direct your life and ideas on how to work with a collective. The Empire has looked into the cycles and dynamics of nature to launch their hypnotic spells and conquer nations.

Think at the level of natural cycles and archetypes:

In occultism it is often pointed out that phenomena occurring in the physical world is nothing more than the shadow of movements taking place in invisible realms, if you were to personify these forces, then you can use myths... in myths the mortals follow the will of the invisible causes, that is their gods. Usually this dynamic is a trinity, that is the gods (invisible cause) communicate their will to the lesser gods or messengers (informational nexus, information links) so that mortals get the message and follow the gods' will (the physical realm, people). Knowing that many within the elite's structure are psychopaths who cannot evolve and therefore push everyone else down, the logical conclusion is that they are incapable of being original, so they must plagiarize and corrupt other systems.

Seeing how they like to use occultism, then you can see that those leeches emulate the dynamics previously mentioned, that is, some psychopaths like to remain behind the scenes where they have little to no exposure to the public eye, this group tries to copy the invisible principles found in nature... they scheme and want to shape the world in their image, so they will manifest their will in the general population, just as the Invisible Principles manifest their will on the physical plane... but of course these leeches who are the architects -the demiurges- must hide at all times from us unworthy mortals, just as the gods did in the myths. They require lesser gods, who will act as messengers and will bend the will of the people, this is when politicians, bankers, military men, scientists, priests, etc come in, for they are the messengers of the fake gods of mankind. This is the trinity of psychopathic entropy.

But you can also use this to elevate the human spirit, it really can go both ways. Think of Hermes, the messenger of the gods who is capable of communicating great knowledge, yet at the same time he's know as a trickster god. You could very well tap into this idea and communicate with the gods as to evolve or you could go the other way. Think the Vatican and their nefarious Hermeneutics, it's not like those guys are going to use the messenger of the gods to spread their venom, no, no... they will use the Trickster side of Hermes.

You could also attempt to re-create the Messenger aspect in a manner where knowledge is preserved. Think about Secret Societies, not every single society was evil and trying to conquer the world with an Iron Fist. There were certain occult schools which tried to preserve knowledge in times of extreme intolerance and to try to prevent Knowledge from falling into the claws of Vultures. Maybe in these days secret societies are not longer needed, at least not from the idea of quick extermination for having "heretic thoughts"... But certainly systems which preserve and improve Knowledge are very needed. You cannot trust the current schooling model for it only seeks obedience, conformity and the eradication of the Rebellious Spirit.

Working around the idea of the programming power of ideas:

You have to remember that whatever is considered as money only has value because people put faith on it whether it be paper, stones, sand, crap, hair, etc. What motivates people to believe that $200 can buy this and that? You see the zombies have little to no objection with the current system because when they go to the store and see a product with a $20 label and they pull out their $20 note they can take the product home, so in their world the system works perfectly fine and takes care of them... it is not until they can't afford the $20 labels that they'll start to get angry. Look at the people in Greece for instance, I bet most of them are mad because they can't decorate their idiotic life anymore. The moment any entity comes in and grants them their childish wishes they'll shut up and go back to produce whatever the system wants them to produce... these are some of the people under the spell.

Then you have the sorcerers at the other side, the demiurges who shape the system and its rules... but you see being the architect of the system is not enough, you still have people to deal with and somehow you have to convince them that your system is the best option available. Sure you can play around with language and have secret arrangements and small letters, but that is not enough. If you are a sorcerer then you have to make people feel identified with your designs so that whenever they look at your legal tender they will say: "this is part of who I am" if they don't get identified, if they don't have a feeling of being part of X construct, then make them feel the need to become part of your construct.... make them crave for X, Y or Z design of your own and it works better when their probabilities of being part of those designs are very low (think becoming a worshiped celebrity).

Still not enough because being a successful social architect requires pawns who will play by your rules, pawns who believe in your system... so what to do? Well you design social roles: the priest, the policeman, the doctor, the criminal, the good samaritan, the governor, the president, the accountant, the banker, the son, the brother, the mother, the sister, etc. And you also make sure that these social roles become hierarchical so people submit to those who are perceived as having a higher authority.

But you are still missing a key element, the one which make the pawns get on their bony knees: you make them believe they were the ones who came up with the system and more importantly the ones who build their so called life... PRESTO!! they are yours and they don't even know it, enter The Formula:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rWj7oWlVtag

They are so identified with their little roles that they don't stop and ask who designed them... they don't even know there is an architect!!

If you are an architect with a rotten psyche, your designs are going to reflect that, whether you are aware of it or not... if you are a broken person, you are going to buy what the rotten architect offers you.

TPTB (The Powers That Be) do not mint coins as much as they mint people's minds.

The world is falling apart true enough... what troubles me more than that fact, is that people want to avoid it!!, Why on earth would they want so save a poisonous system?. If you are hoping to see a better world, an authentic better world and not just a band aid then the current system has to be destroyed, not tweaked to please the mindless masses so they can acquire more stupid crap to decorate their life.

I guess if most people were willing to think then such transition would be gradual and smooth, but since most are zombified then it is going to be a hard fall... We are seeing toxic entropy in action, so I don't see the fall of so called civilization as something to worry much about, what concerns me more is what are people going to do after the system fails for the Nth occasion?. Are they going to remain stupid and follow the next messiah who puts together a mass movement?

The truth is that some may capitalize on the fall of the system, maybe some will snap out of it in time... but a lot are going to ramain stupid and they are going to be more suggestible to whatever form of salvation it's offered to them. I'd say (as ugly as it may sound) let them die, they are toxic and many won't want to improve themselves, focus on those who are willing to snap out of it.

A separation must occur, the separation of the toxic from the non-toxic... forget about idealistic dreams about being a unified race... I for one don't want anything to do with zombies who are not willing to change. When the separation occurs then a union must occur between those who are sane and then maybe something can be worked out.

Perhaps some of this could work to bring the healthy parts into a dynamic and cohesive unit, not so much of a hive mind, but a group or groups where individuals don't blow their individuality into oblivion and where individuals don't go to the extreme of someone like Uncle Sam:

To me no human system will cure our ills, if you are looking for a system to carry you through the motions of life... well there's the current system and its ever smiling futuristic dystopia, but make no mistake it won't clean your psychic crap.

What has to be understood is that any and all systems that humans design are tools which reflect their state of being, look at the current paradigm for instance: it mainly serves specific spheres of power who rape or at least try to rape the rest of humanity (this is the predatory state being reflected) and on the other side you have aspects of the system which serve the needs or rather the primal desires of a zombified population: shopping, sports, drinking, etc. When you look at the system serving to pop culture and sub cultural needs you can see the "intelligence" of the zombies being reflected. Sure there are nice things here and there, but what's the price to pay? money, energy, intelligence, blood,time?. It seems to be a bizarre symbiotic relationship between the zombies and the predators.

So I would say that you cannot hope to have a healthy system if your psyche is rotten. The collective psyche is rotten at large so to see "civilization" fall apart comes as no surprise to me... it is not until you can access and somewhat understand your Self/Ego that you can actually start to go in a healthy direction, but of course before that comes, deprogramming has to take place, removing the crap that has been implanted in your mind.

I'm not saying that you should just go within and ignore what goes out there nor I'm saying no systems should be thought out... in fact negating those aspects would be more like going within your ass. Nevertheless, you must be able to establish feedback loops with the exterior world. I'm not so concerned about what system comes next as much as I'm concerned about the next state of the collective conscious/unconscious... is that entity going to reflect imbeciles and psychopaths at large? or is it going to reflect intelligent and caring INDIVIDUALS?

How to heal the psyche? well that kind of thing comes down to each person... the different schools are there: Taoism, shamanism, zen, alchemy, psychology, etc. you can explore them to see which elements from X number of schools can help you to tune your inner instrument so you can establish a rapport with Archetypes.

How do you separate the toxic people from the non-toxic people? To a large extent that is an individual task, first of all you must deprogram yourself continuously, then go on working on your judgement so you can distinguish the zombies and the psychos from the sane individuals, after that you disengage to the best of your abilities from the necrotic people and their bull**** (notice than I'm saying disengage and not pretend that they don't exist).

Then comes the part where you start to get together with the sane people, this part can be very difficult when it comes to personal contact... For example, I just know one person in the "real world" who is sane, everyone else I know is a drone to a greater or lesser degree. Perhaps by looking at neurons we can get an idea:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LT3VKAr4roo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=90cj4NX87Yk

Human Synapse between the healthy individuals. The information bridges have been established and are being established, the internet played/plays a massive role in this. The problem is... synapse in the physical world.

It should also be remembered that the trauma humanity has gone through and its catastrophic effects didn't happen overnight, for the most part it seems like it has been a gradual process. Likewise the task of rising from the ashes and becoming the allegorical phoenix is a gradual process, there are no shortcuts, but Knowledge and Introspection may help to accelerate the process, at least compared to waiting for Natural Cycles to do the job.

Have in mind the ever present Dialectic and remember than it can be used for the betterment of mankind as well as for perpetuating a state of decay... basically we've gone through something like this:

We are being attacked, by different means. Attacks which target different dimensions of our Self, sometimes they may attack multiple dimensions. Seemingly there is a double think tactic being used against us and to some extent we go on replicating it.

Examples:

Theories of evolution are in conflict with religious ideas, yet you are being asked to believe in both. But you must not try to solve this conflict, experts in each field will do it for you.

We are being oversexualised by the current out of control narcissistic culture. Since you are a little kid you are being invited to enter sex... yet there are social, religious, and political views which demonize sex, any and all forms of sexual expression are quickly suppressed. Both narratives clash within us and yet we are deemed too stupid to figure it out for ourselves, so the establishment will take care of it.

We are being told how politics is flawed and needs reform while at the same time the cultural spheres will encourage you to worship key politicians as all-mighty godly saviours. You are not supposed to ask why.

We are being told to be against any and all forms of violence, yet you are encouraged to support legal mercenaries in their patriotic mass murder missions. You need no wonder why, it's the way it is.

So you see, the establishment uses this form of conflicting dialectic to obfuscate and confuse the "unworthy", it get's even more nasty because both sides of the dialectic are usually full of sh!t. This dynamic is repeated over and over again - it has been going on for what? millennia? millions of years?- to the point where severe trauma is created within the tormented individual, the repetition of this practice so frequent that at some point the population will just go on replicating it. Indeed the prisoners watch the prisoners, no one trusts each other... the prisoners themselves will at times crush rebellions which may arise from within their own ranks. Pretty pathetic and sad.

And also be aware that you can transmute the "lower" aspects. Think of the idea of Ambition. At first it would see this carries harmful aspects like greed, avarice, sadism, etc. but it also carries helpful elements like the will to have something done, an impulse which can be used to push the cultural leviathan and its memes back. Maybe something like Anger which sublimated could lead you to stand against any and all forms of tyranny.

The Mountain road is steep, but the vista at the top is priceless.

PurpleLama
20th September 2012, 21:46
Keep digging.

ulli
20th September 2012, 23:34
So you see, the establishment uses this form of conflicting dialectic to obfuscate and confuse the "unworthy", it get's even more nasty because both sides of the dialectic are usually full of sh!t. This dynamic is repeated over and over again - it has been going on for what? millennia? millions of years?- to the point where severe trauma is created within the tormented individual, the repetition of this practice so frequent that at some point the population will just go on replicating it. Indeed the prisoners watch the prisoners, no one trusts each other... the prisoners themselves will at times crush rebellions which may arise from within their own ranks. Pretty pathetic and sad.

Good analysis which cannot be argued with.
Yet there is another dynamic out there, and once it is discovered all one needs to do is hang in there and team up with those who are like-minded.
Avalon is such an example, but I'm sure there are more places that offer the solution which will then start firing the collective neurons.

jackovesk
21st September 2012, 00:32
Seeking a New Direction

Well Reaver - You certainly have since your early days posting over at Nexus...:shocked:

Saying that you took a few 'Chill-Pills' is an Understatement...:angry:...:nerd:

Why the 'Dramatic CHANGE' in your approach & psyche...:confused:

spiritguide
21st September 2012, 01:09
Systemic outline for sure. Thanks!

Reaver
21st September 2012, 03:11
Well Reaver - You certainly have since your early days posting over at Nexus...

Saying that you took a few 'Chill-Pills' is an Understatement......

Why the 'Dramatic CHANGE' in your approach & psyche...
Are you kidding me? of course my approach towards knowledge is different in some regards compared to my early days at Nexus. It's been over a year since I started writing on forums and I don't take these kind of topics as a hobby so I can let some steam out.

I wrote that OP as a challenge to the people on this forum, a challenge so that they can deconstruct or add more elements to the OP. Even better if the folks here can come up with their own ideas. Hopefully an useful synthesis can come up with all the feedback.

But if people here are going to be shocked and ask me why I tweaked my perceptions, why I took some chill pills and why my style is different from my early posts at nexus instead of addressing the topic at hand... well then I have to say I may have come to the wrong place.

why the "massive" change? well why not? anyone who doesn't refine and change their perceptions over the years must be a complete idiot or an academic.

AwakeInADream
21st September 2012, 03:22
Revolver was a good film, but do you think Guy Ritchie was a wise man/prophet?
This world isn't how it seems to be, but it really isn't how anybody else seems it to be either. It just is.
So beautifully unknown...

Reaver
21st September 2012, 03:30
Revolver was a good film, but do you think Guy Ritchie was a wise man/prophet?
What on earth are you talking about? Ritchie is a filmmaker who in all probability has knowledge in how the Ego works and made a very good film to portray it. Why would anyone think the man is some kind of prophet or an ideal image of a wise man?

Look I get that the topic of Revolver is the ego, but I focused on that particular scene because I think that "The Formula" can be projected into many situations, not just the Ego. In other words, I think that "The Formula" can be seen as an archetypal idea which permeates many of the human dynamics. From the ego itself to the cons being pulled off by TPTB.


This world isn't how it seems to be, but it really isn't how anybody else seems it to be either. It just is.
Care to elaborate on that idea?

AwakeInADream
21st September 2012, 04:12
As in, the world is a mystery. No one has it all figured out.

Maybe Guy Ritchie is an insider, an Illuminum.

modwiz
21st September 2012, 05:09
Well Reaver - You certainly have since your early days posting over at Nexus...

Saying that you took a few 'Chill-Pills' is an Understatement......

Why the 'Dramatic CHANGE' in your approach & psyche...
Are you kidding me? of course my approach towards knowledge is different in some regards compared to my early days at Nexus. It's been over a year since I started writing on forums and I don't take these kind of topics as a hobby so I can let some steam out.

I wrote that OP as a challenge to the people on this forum, a challenge so that they can deconstruct or add more elements to the OP. Even better if the folks here can come up with their own ideas. Hopefully an useful synthesis can come up with all the feedback.

But if people here are going to be shocked and ask me why I tweaked my perceptions, why I took some chill pills and why my style is different from my early posts at nexus instead of addressing the topic at hand... well then I have to say I may have come to the wrong place.

why the "massive" change? well why not? anyone who doesn't refine and change their perceptions over the years must be a complete idiot or an academic.

I thought Jacks question was ridiculous and insulting. I have always appreciated your intelligence and willingness to ruffle feathers in a way that creates healthy introspection. I find the Avalon Reaver to be a very welcome addition here. I can count on your posts being worth my time. This thread is brilliant, BTW. You were mentioned in a conversation I had with 9eagle tonight. She is in awe of your intelligence. Please keep it coming and ignore the burps that might arise when it is all someone has to offer.

I would love to be able to sit down with you and really have some conversational fun. Most intelligence comes with a very good sense of humor in my experience. I think we would have a blast. (I hope that idiomatic phrase is not capricious on my part. Your formal English is excellent).

ThePythonicCow
21st September 2012, 06:29
Why the 'Dramatic CHANGE' in your approach & psyche...:confused:
May we be so fortunate to be have reason to be asking that question of your approach, in another year, Jacovesk.

Respectful comments on the content of the posts of others are welcome here. Distracting or disrespectful comments on the psyche of other posters are not welcome.

Reaver
21st September 2012, 19:22
I thought Jacks question was ridiculous and insulting. I have always appreciated your intelligence and willingness to ruffle feathers in a way that creates healthy introspection. I find the Avalon Reaver to be a very welcome addition here. I can count on your posts being worth my time. This thread is brilliant, BTW. You were mentioned in a conversation I had with 9eagle tonight. She is in awe of your intelligence. Please keep it coming and ignore the burps that might arise when it is all someone has to offer.

I would love to be able to sit down with you and really have some conversational fun. Most intelligence comes with a very good sense of humor in my experience. I think we would have a blast. (I hope that idiomatic phrase is not capricious on my part. Your formal English is excellent).
I don't find it insulting, just appalling. I don't have a problem if anyone wants to criticize my ideas, my attitudes or my persona, that criticism could be useful or nonsense, either way I'm cool with that. I reacted in that manner because I just find it odd that someone who reads all the text that I wrote can only muster remarks which have nothing to do with the thread itself.

As I said, if someone wants to fully destroy my proposals then I welcome it. If people present intelligent arguments which prove that my propositions are flawed or dead wrong, then I'll appreciate it. I'd sooner discard my ideas which are out of date or completely flawed than become obsessed with them.

As for the conversation, well there is skype :thumb:

write4change
21st September 2012, 20:32
Interesting to me that you should try this. I have been meditating on the same thing since you started the self versus community thread. I really appreciate such a thughtful presentation of ideas. I am glad both modwiz and eagle like them because we could use more of this and less off the cuff stuff. I would like to thank you for spending the time and attention to this and I have just gotten back and in perusal mode and this requires time and thinking to respond to. I only know your work from here as a couple of perusals of Nexus never appealed to me. I an the type of person who would rather have less stuff but more substantial stuff.

jackovesk
30th September 2012, 22:27
Why the 'Dramatic CHANGE' in your approach & psyche...:confused:
May we be so fortunate to be have reason to be asking that question of your approach, in another year, Jacovesk.

Respectful comments on the content of the posts of others are welcome here. Distracting or disrespectful comments on the psyche of other posters are not welcome.

So trying to get to know a new member is now out of the question, Paul..?

Roger - Wilcko (Big 10/4) Over & Out...:faint:

As per usual, always jumping to the wrong conclusion, Paul...:confused:

Unbelievable...:no:

ThePythonicCow
30th September 2012, 23:01
So trying to get to know a new member is now out of the question, Paul..?
Getting to know other members in ways that they feel more welcome here is indeed welcome.

First you might want to get to know how you come across to others.

As best as I can tell from Reaver's reply to your earlier post, he did not feel welcomed by your "inquiry", reasonably so in my view.

Reaver
6th January 2013, 18:52
This is something I wrote somewhere else:

I think it was (name deleted because of privacy) who proposed a take over. A carefully planned one. Now that may indeed be useful to a large degree, but I think it's useful to expand on the idea of "coup d'etat".

I imagine that most people would envision such "overthrow" as a violent thing and that may be the actual case to a degree. But if we look at history and its patterns, I think we can see that many of those take overs -even if they were being led by people who were actually intelligent and caring- were successful only for a short term. Violence seemed to be the main tool of many of the people who participated on those revolutions and that was one of the main reasons for their eventual failure. Now I'm not saying that Violence or Anger are useless, in fact I think they are very useful elements when channeled properly, but if they become the absolute driving force, you can be sure that your plans for a new Eden will fail miserably sooner or later.

The Powers That Be had launched many takeovers, they have highjacked Humanity and the tools which creative people have provided. They took over governments, religions, science, philosophy, psychology, etc. They indeed have subverted Humanity and demoralized it. just as Yuri Bezmenov pointed out.

I feel that a similar tactic could be used to push those pathological forces back. A series of Strikes, not only on governments and corporations, but also on Ideas and Tools.

See the Elite have monopolized the realm of ideas in order to create an Empire whose soldiers are obedient Automatons. They have stolen that which is capable of uplifting the Human Spirit, corrupted it and used toxic elements to demoralize countless tribes, countless cities, countless countries.

This modern age -although highly idiotic- provides enough room to reclaim those ideas. It is time for Human Beings to reclaim the realm of Ideas. To use tools like Art to uplift the Human Spirit, challenge idiotic beliefs and use that with another tool like the Internet to spread these ideas quickly and efficiently, just like this guy does:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GmFDMf8VSfA

is time to reclaim Psychology and "kill" those who would use it to reduce Humans to mere mechanical functions. It is time to reclaim Knowledge and destroy toxic institutions like Universities which only prostitute and destroy Knowledge.

Just as the Human Being is a Totality and not a mere Brain nor a mere Heart (for **** sake the alternative media and new age circles have done a good job in mutilating what it means to be Human), So Knowledge is a Totality. A full system which could posses some fields which are more important than others, nevertheless Knowledge should be a system of flexible Ideas which constantly produce feedback between one another.

So a coup d'etat has to be more than a mere Strike on the Government. It has to be a campaign which seeks to reclaim everything which can help the Human Race to refine itself, constantly achieving new heights. A coup d'etat has to tackle the whole Matrix and a good series of strategies are required, as well as a certain amount of Patience.

AwakeInADream
7th January 2013, 04:12
establishing feedback with other people can accelerate the learning process.

Absolutely true, and Avalon is the best place for it!

This is a great thread Reaver!:)

I hope you keep developing your ideas further.

I must sincerely apologize for my pointless posts above, they came from a place of ignorance and were made in haste.
I was new to Avalon then, but the time I've spent here between then and now has certainly been a time of accelerated learning for me.
I've re-read your posts now and I can see how excellent they really are. :sorry:

I totally agree that the system must fall, but what are we going to replace it with?

If we could collectively, get it right, what would a perfect (or at least functional) civilization look like?

I hope we can have a society one day that could perhaps mirror Project Avalon itself,
where people simply respect each other, and the currency is truth.

Cheers!:)

Awake(now)

Reaver
12th January 2013, 18:23
Disclaimer: I haven't had enough hours of sleep to this reply may be utter crap, do point it out if it turns to be BS in your eyes.

I'm just going to give some general answers, nothing too fancy nor deep because these are the kind of subjects which need a lot of thought and a few paragraphs wouldn't make them any justice, besides this is the kind of stuff which needs an interdisciplinary approach.


I totally agree that the system must fall, but what are we going to replace it with?

One of the ideal views I've seen on the alternative media is that of some kind of perfect system where free energy is available for everyone and where everyone treats each other kindly in the land of absolute Anarchy. Now to be honest with you I just find this idea very cute and border line pathetic, it's one of those ideas which many people are cheerful for, but are rarely willing to to question them or to ask themselves how would they bring that change about. I've seen many people get carried away by the hyper emotionalism that these memes contain rather than using their reason to explore them.

Being realistic one has to understand that this world is made up by different kinds of people who have different levels of development and I'm not talking in cute terms so that everyone thinks I'm being humble. I mean this in a very rational way and something like "levels of development" needs further clarification. For now I'll just touch on the psychological level (again I'll just talk in very general terms).

The truth is that most people around the world are incapable of psychological independence and as a consequence of that many of those people end up developing a toxic psyche. The result is a person who gradually becomes dissociated, someone who lacks any moral compass whatsoever. Along the way these people have also become extremely dependent on the current system, so it is likely that many of them would eat each other if the control structure was to disappear all of a sudden.

Yes something like Anarchy sounds very nice, but it wouldn't work as the immediate replacement for the current system. If Anarchy has a chance, then it would be as an ideal state, a state of affairs where most if not all people had a certain level of development, a certain level of individuation.

So in the meantime you'd need some transitory system. I've come across something called meritocracy which apparently focuses on the aspect of politics and government: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy#The_Meritocracy_Party

But even if Meritocracy had potential it still would need to destabilize the current system to a degree and it would have to launch a campaign to sway the minds of the average population and even if it is capable of rallying people behind it, it would take some generations to become an established system.

Freed Fox
12th January 2013, 18:41
The trick comes when you try to remain vigilant as to not fall into a toxic side of either narrative, that is you should try not to fall into blind egocentrism and also not to fall into dependence...

That is indeed the trick. Even among those who are not really 'zombies' or 'predators', this is still a problem. I have more sympathy for those who seek the sense of security in being dependent, though of course I try not to encourage such a mindset. People falling into either toxic side can do so without being aware of it, even when they are aware of much of what you've discussed. There's something of a disconnect, especially with the egocentrics, that just because you have cleared the initial obstacles and broken away from the typical programming, you are free from the negative psyche. I'm speaking in generalities, of course.


But you are still missing a key element, the one which make the pawns get on their bony knees: you make them believe they were the ones who came up with the system and more importantly the ones who build their so called life... PRESTO!! they are yours and they don't even know it...

The mark of a true conman indeed; the victim believes they are in control or at least not being lead directly into the slaughterhouse.


The world is falling apart true enough... what troubles me more than that fact, is that people want to avoid it!!, Why on earth would they want so save a poisonous system?. If you are hoping to see a better world, an authentic better world and not just a band aid then the current system has to be destroyed, not tweaked to please the mindless masses so they can acquire more stupid crap to decorate their life.

This is a concept that I've been chewing on for awhile. I feel a tinge of guilt or even wickedness when I'm lead to this conclusion that 'the system' (perhaps society itself) must crumble to the ground for anything truly positive to rise up and take its place. The pathology seems to deeply rooted and intrinsic, as you have so elegantly laid out in your OP. There is virtually no form of government that is beyond the influence of corruption. And there are plenty of zombies around to make the present paradigm stable, one way or another.


How do you separate the toxic people from the non-toxic people? To a large extent that is an individual task, first of all you must deprogram yourself continuously, then go on working on your judgement so you can distinguish the zombies and the psychos from the sane individuals, after that you disengage to the best of your abilities from the necrotic people and their bull**** (notice than I'm saying disengage and not pretend that they don't exist).

[...]

Then comes the part where you start to get together with the sane people, this part can be very difficult when it comes to personal contact... For example, I just know one person in the "real world" who is sane, everyone else I know is a drone to a greater or lesser degree.


Yet another issue that I've been trying to deal with. I completely agree that there needs to be a meeting of the minds across the globe, and that these physical 'synapses' need to start firing. I agree too that the internet has been a great blessing in this regard.
While I think you're right about disengaging from certain elements of society, I don't believe we should wholly discount/discard the so-called 'zombies', because I believe there are those who would wake up if they were presented the truths they are missing in the proper light. It seems impossible in some cases and perhaps it is in ALL cases. After all I would attribute my 'waking up' to learning from life itself rather than any one individual. And yet, when we start to enter this place of awareness, the communicative process with like-minded individuals (and those even more enlightened or knowledgeable than ourselves) becomes key to continuing the progress and ensuring that one does not fall back into those old programs which, although insidious, are ultimately low-resistance and therefore can be quite comfortable.

So essentially I am recognizing that we may be unable to wake up anyone who is not yet ready or willing, but am still insisting that we don't completely turn our backs on all of them... is this a problematic way of thinking?

Reaver
12th January 2013, 20:41
This is a concept that I've been chewing on for awhile. I feel a tinge of guilt or even wickedness when I'm lead to this conclusion that 'the system' (perhaps society itself) must crumble to the ground for anything truly positive to rise up and take its place. The pathology seems to deeply rooted and intrinsic, as you have so elegantly laid out in your OP. There is virtually no form of government that is beyond the influence of corruption. And there are plenty of zombies around to make the present paradigm stable, one way or another.
Another area to explore further so that the whole picture looks even better. When we talk about society and/or the system collapsing we have to think about it further. The typical perception is a worst kind scenario where half the world burns in flames and martial law follows, but that's not the only probability.

A collapse could follow a different process (see post #16) which would be caused by a committed group of people who tackle multiple areas of the system. From politics to education. Ideally this would be like a metaphorical fortress siege and over the course of many years the fortress would start to crumble. In this particular scenario that group of committed people would have to be smart individuals so that the system failures don't overwhelm them and so that they can tweak, destroy and/or rise new structures as the need arises.

We are talking about a deconstructive process here, something which many people within the alternative media seem to look with disdain, either because they are ignorant or down right stupid. So we also have to think about what a deconstructive process is and then we can (hopefully) see that even the idea of destruction can be healthy in certain cases.


While I think you're right about disengaging from certain elements of society, I don't believe we should wholly discount/discard the so-called 'zombies', because I believe there are those who would wake up if they were presented the truths they are missing in the proper light.
This is something which I have refined since I wrote the OP (I wrote if before I posted it here btw). So now I think there should also be an effort to sway the masses in some way, after all small groups of dedicated people can only accomplish so much. Numbers and brains are two factors which go together when it comes to shifting a paradigm. So how to convince the zombies?


In my own experience if you just drop an intellectual bomb on the average people, then they will shut down. They use emotions to surf reason. We live in a society which has little to no interest in Knowledge, but stories which appeal to their Hyper Emotionalism always seem to find success. So when it comes to the average population, I'd say such a method would have greater chances to have an impact.

My idea is that a project/movement would have to be able to carter to different groups based on their level of development and perhaps something like the Myers-Briggs Type (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator) Indicator could be integrated to figure out how to reach different groups of people.

This article I found on the net will help to make it even clearer:


Who are the main drivers of social networking? Teenage girls. Who are the biggest fans of Twilight? Teenage girls. Who are the biggest fans of Harry Potter? Teenage girls. Who are the biggest fans of The Hunger Games? Teenage girls. Who are the biggest fans of Lady Gaga, Rihanna and Beyonce? Teenage girls. Who are the biggest fans of angels? Teenage girls. So, here’s a challenge for the intelligentsia... construct a meme that will be transmitted relentlessly by teenage girls.


Why was Gangnam Style so successful? Because it featured an amusing, simple dance that teenage girls copied “religiously”, then tweeted about in enormous numbers. Viral transmission is ENORMOUSLY magnified if it can be “physicalized” via a copyable dance, costume, or image, or is accompanied by a catchy song, or popular book.


Why won’t the religion of Euler’s Formula ever succeed in this world of ours? Because teenage girls would rather DIE than tweet about it. And you can’t dance to it. Even Nietzsche said he wouldn’t believe in a God who didn’t know how to dance.


The Spice Girls were extremely successful with their doctrine of “girl power” (teenage girls loved it), their aspirational song Wannabe, and the fact that girls could choose to identify with “Sporty Spice”, “Posh Spice”, “Scary Spice”, “Baby Spice” or “Ginger Spice”, i.e. every type of girl could be accommodated (well, apart from girls like HYPATIA!).


What are the central features of average teenage girls? – hyper emotionalism; hyper romanticism; hyper other-directedness; hyper fashion interest; hyper image obsession; hyper bodyshape neurosis; hyper need for validation. Teenage girls, like teenage boys, are more or less INSANE; in thrall to overpowering hormonal surges and a desperate need to “fit in”.


The trick to viral meme transmission is knowing how to speak the “language” of the teenage hysteric. Twilight perfectly captured the teenage girl’s desire to have a “special” boyfriend – handsome but a bit dangerous, a bit unusual, a bit of a rebel, and, above all, an absolute romantic who would do anything for his girlfriend. Lady Gaga also captures most of the teenage female mentality. Imagine explaining Fourier transforms to Lady Gaga or Kristen Stewart’s character in Twilight. Ho, ho, ho.


Intellectuals who think trying to formulate a message that engages with teenage girls is beneath their dignity or is “trivial and irrelevant” are out-of-touch snobs. An intellectual can turn his mind to anything, and ought to be interested in any daunting challenge.


The plan is to create an Angel Religion of the “Goddess” with Lucifer, the female Angel of Light, as the supreme deity of the pantheon. (This challenges the patriarchy of Abrahamism, and, it restores the name of “Lucifer” to its rightful, benevolent status, while being highly provocative to Abrahamists.)


The Goddess is also named Venus/Aphrodite: goddess of love and sex.


The religion, like the Spice Girls, has something for every girl or woman: The Daughter, The Sister, The Mother, The Stepmother, The Best Friend, The Princess, The Queen, The Virgin, The Whore, The Witch, The Vampire, The Huntress (Diana), The Oracle, The Priestess, The Dominatrix, The Goddess, Wisdom (Sophia), Light, Love, Community. Hypatia is the intellectual inspiration of the religion.


The religion has a special male God: Dionysus, the Party God, the God of intoxication. When women worship him they become Maenads and abandon every constraint and all standards of decency.


This is intended to be a religion that empowers women and shatters patriarchy. It needs to scandalize Christian men, who must denounce it as the “work of the Devil”. Someone suggested a Dominatrix religion and that can certainly be part of it.


Men brought the world to where it is now; women need to lead it out. Later, men and women can be equalized, but now is now. Under the leadership of women, predatory capitalism will fall (since it’s very much a testosterone-driven enterprise).


So, a catchy song and simple dance step are needed for the new religion. A sexy image is needed, good make-up and an attractive, fashionable costume. A priestess is required to perform the rites of Dionysus. We need the rebirth of the witches’ coven and the Sisterhood of Maenads. We need the restoration of “temple prostitution” where women offered up a sexual encounter to the Goddess on the temple precincts (imagine that happening in every church!). We need the Sorority model of American universities to be revamped and applied throughout society. We need to horrify the Christian right and instigate a moral crisis. We need women to start taking the jobs of rich men.



Well, can it be done? Is there enough creativity and imagination to make it happen? It’s all very well talking the talk, but what the world needs are those who walk the walk. Twilight cracked the code and so did Fifty Shades of Grey (which began life as Twilight fan fiction! – nearly all fan fiction is written by women). Both books are about sex, so sex is clearly a primary vector of meme transmission. Who is bold and clever enough to work out a new angle on sex that will sweep the world as Fifty Shades did – but in the form of a religion that combats Abrahamism?

The dialectic in fact DEMANDS that women be given the chance to run the world as the antithesis to the male thesis. Only then can we proceed to the final male-female synthesis of equal opportunities.



So essentially I am recognizing that we may be unable to wake up anyone who is not yet ready or willing, but am still insisting that we don't completely turn our backs on all of them... is this a problematic way of thinking?
Well it does create a conflict and in fact there is truth to both statements. From these kind of conflicts you can gain new and better insights.

Thesis: we may be unable to wake up anyone who is not yet ready or willing

Antithesis: still insisting that we don't completely turn our backs on all of them

Synthesis: ??????

Welcome to the Hegelian Dialectic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic#Hegelian_dialectic

Short Disclaimer: The Hegelian Dialectic is a tool and as such it can be used to uplift or corrupt humanity. I say this before anyone who watched too many Illuminati videos on youtube calls me a heretic. In fact the Dialectic is one of the most precious tools we have available.

9eagle9
12th January 2013, 20:54
Unfortunately the thesis which is usually (or should be) a mental progression is all to often met with an emotional antithesis. Then no synthesis can be achieved.

You can't reason with emotions.

Thesis. Two plus five=7
Antithesis: You're wrong!
Thesis: How?
Antithesis. You're an angry fear mongering dick.
Thesis: How do you figure and what does that have to do with 2,5,7?
Antithesis: I'm an ascended being.

Unfortunately this is becoming the new norm in the alternative arena.

I'd have to say, yep, that's pretty alternative.

sandy
13th January 2013, 00:15
So can a balance be created somehow as to reach the intellect and the emotion. Both operate from belief systems, known and unknown thus focusing on how to discreate Belief Systems (BS for short) :) as an operating modality may be the way to go.

AwakeInADream
13th January 2013, 00:35
BS for short!:lol: I like that!:)literal LOL

Operator
13th January 2013, 04:21
anyone who doesn't refine and change their perceptions over the years must be a complete idiot or an academic.

Or a staunch believer (maybe complete idiot covers that ;))

I fully agree, 4 .. 5 years ago I thought I'd found IT. I knew the truth and was ready to tell every one.
Today I know better, my perception has changed and I fully realize that I probably will bump on something
tomorrow that will change the perception again.

jagman
13th January 2013, 06:43
We are all in a constant state of change, whether we acknowledge it or not. I always enjoyed your threads over at Nexus Reaver.I have also enjoyed your threads here.
I always found your writings very edgy and informative.I do think you practice verbal judo more now, Instead of verbal karate.

ulli
13th January 2013, 13:43
Reaver, I read the OP and entire thread all over again, it is just so good.
Love what you said about teenage girls.
But want to add that when I'm out in the world I play my role as the favorite aunt of the teenage boys, not the girls, they are only interested in listening to the boy's latest sports feats.
So I talk to the boys, especially those who are now becoming more interested in conspiracy. I tell them about Project Avalon...and find that some are craving that kind of info.
Here is what I think might happen later:
teenage girls are attracted to the most knowledgeable boys, and want to find out what drives them.
We at PA have to keep a healthy mix going to get all the young ones, with a mix of invisibility technology talk, of FTL travel, of gadgets, and in between we spike the info with rainbows, unicorns and fairies. A bit of woowoo. This is my vision.

Our best quotes and images could be gently introduced to our Facebook and Pinterest pages ...this will help lift teenage girls out of their toxicity by the thousands, will bring younger blood to Avalon, which I consider now pure and safe enough to not be a source of disinformation, and hopefully the impact will cause chain reactions of collective awakening.
Actually, it is already happening, faster than some here realize.