Having problems in meditation?

[Tony]

Having problems in meditation?

The mind is easily distracted, it's what does what it's does, jumps here and there like a monkey...monkey mind!

The solution is quite simple: the mind cannot think of two things at the same time!

So when thoughts arise, say to yourself...”Thinking, thinking, thinking!”
When thoughts of the future arise ...”Planning, planning, planning!”
The past... “Past, past, past!”
An itch... “Itch, itch, itch!”
A sound ...”noise, noise, noise!”...it's the same for everything that occurs.

The main point is, that a thought or feeling is not left vague - you have identified it. Therefore clarity has occurred, and as two thoughts cannot occupy the same space, a gap occurs! One merely returns to resting in 'boring' space.

Boring it may seem, but in meditation the brain waves change, tension in the body reduces, one is more aware, one is more at peace...doing nothing!

It is rare to do nothing. In doing nothing, we break out of the programming!




All the best,
Tony

[Tony]

We can even do this with doubt..."Doubt, doubt, doubt!"

Even though we have doubt in the mind about something, there is that, which is aware of this doubt....don't doubt that.... It's all you've got!
That awareness of doubt is our knowing quality.

Stuff continually comes up in the mind, because of past experiences, and one wonders if this or that is real. Only awareness of the awareness is real, and one finds that this awareness of awareness, is empty. Then we may arrive at the emptiness of emptiness, meaning the last drop of any idea of emptiness has gone.



Tony

[Tony]

The Heart Sutra
Prajna Paramita Hrydaya Sutra


Translator's Introduction — Ven. Dharma Master Lok To
Prologue — Grand Master T'an Hsu
Commentary — Grand Master T'an Hsu


"When the Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara."

"Was Coursing in the Deep Prajna Paramita."


"He Perceived That All Five Skandhas Are Empty."


"Thus He Overcame All Ills and Suffering."
[ Commentary on above text ]

"Oh, Sariputra, Form Does not Differ From the Void,
And the Void Does Not Differ From Form.
Form is Void and Void is Form;
The Same is True For Feelings,
Perceptions, Volitions and Consciousness."


"Sariputra, the Characteristics of the
Voidness of All Dharmas
Are Non-Arising, Non-Ceasing, Non-Defiled,
Non-Pure, Non-Increasing, Non-Decreasing."

"Therefore, in the Void There Are No Forms,
No Feelings, Perceptions, Volitions or Consciousness."


"No Eye, Ear, Nose, Tongue, Body or Mind;
No Form, Sound, Smell, Taste, Touch or Mind Object;
No Realm of the Eye,
Until We Come to No realm of Consciousness."

"No ignorance and Also No Ending of Ignorance,
Until We Come to No Old Age and Death and
No Ending of Old Age and Death."

"Also, There is No Truth of Suffering,
Of the Cause of Suffering,
Of the Cessation of Suffering, Nor of the Path."


"There is No Wisdom, and There is No Attainment Whatsoever."


"Because There is Nothing to Be Attained,
The Bodhisattva Relying On Prajna Paramita Has
No Obstruction in His Mind."

"Because There is No Obstruction, He Has no Fear,"


"And He passes Far Beyond Confused Imagination."


"And Reaches Ultimate Nirvana."


"The Buddhas of the Past, Present and Future,
By Relying on Prajna Paramita
Have Attained Supreme Enlightenment."

"Therefore, the Prajna Paramita is the Great Magic Spell,
The Spell of Illumination, the Supreme Spell,
Which Can Truly Protect One From All Suffering Without Fail."


"Therefore He Uttered the Spell of Prajnaparmita,
Saying Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha."


P2D8epuXla8

[Tony]

"Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha." = Gone, gone, gone beyond, Bodhi Svaha.

At the beginning of a meditation session, it is good to invoke the help of all enlightened beings, and that we practice for the benefit of all sentient beings..
In that devotion and compassion the "I" dissolves.
At the end of the meditation session, we dedicate the practice to all sentient beings that they may attain enlightenment.
In that devotion and compassion the "I" dissolves.
This enhances the practice and give it power.



Of course the old "I" ego will stick its nose in again, but the more we dedicate and remember the less this will happen.;)

[Strat]

Fantastic advice! This is something I deal with daily.

It's really hard for me to break out of that boring state. I can get it to go away for like 5 seconds at a time and when it does I get a feeling of relief for lack of a better term. Also that feeling feels as if the world slows down to the tempo it's supposed to be at, rather than the 200 beats per minute I perceive it to be. Kinda hard to describe.

I think that boring feeling is a blessing in disguise (when it comes to meditation). I think of meditation as exercise: it takes work to get results. If you want to be strong you have to work out. If you don't work out, you will be weak. How could this not be the same for ones mind/well being? If you never exercise then you may have adverse reactions, same goes with the mind.

That boring feeling can be an indicator of how strong you are. Are you going to feel boring or not? If you are thinking that you WILL be bored no matter what then you simply cannot control that emotion. Then you gotta think what other emotions control you, and to what degree?

[Fred Steeves]

Having problems in meditation?

The mind is easily distracted, it's what does what it's does, jumps here and there like a monkey...monkey mind!

The solution is quiet simple, the mind cannot think of two things at the same time!

So when thoughts arise, say to yourself...”thinking, thinking, thinking!”
When thoughts of the future arise ...”Planning, planning, planning!”
The past... “Past, past, past!”
An itch... “Itch, itch, itch!”
A sound ...”noise, noise, noise!”...it's the same for everything that occurs.


Hi Tony, I prefer to just observe the monkeyshines upstairs without judgement. It can be quite entertaining at times, like watching children or animals at play. It all eventually turns to bland garble, and next thing you know, you're meditating. Alan Watts recommended that leisurely approach way back in the day, and after trying many other methods, that one still wins the prize by far.

Of course everyone's different, just relating some personal results.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Cheers Mate,
Fred

[Tony]

Having problems in meditation?

The mind is easily distracted, it's what does what it's does, jumps here and there like a monkey...monkey mind!

The solution is quiet simple, the mind cannot think of two things at the same time!

So when thoughts arise, say to yourself...”thinking, thinking, thinking!”
When thoughts of the future arise ...”Planning, planning, planning!”
The past... “Past, past, past!”
An itch... “Itch, itch, itch!”
A sound ...”noise, noise, noise!”...it's the same for everything that occurs.


Hi Tony, I prefer to just observe the monkeyshines upstairs without judgement. It can be quite entertaining at times, like watching children or animals at play. It all eventually turns to bland garble, and next thing you know, you're meditating. Alan Watts recommended that leisurely approach way back in the day, and after trying many other methods, that one still wins the prize by far.

Of course everyone's different, just relating some personal results.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Cheers Mate,
Fred



Hello Fred,
Whatever works, works. It's always good to hear another view.

Tony

[aranuk]

Yes Fred, I remember reading Alan Watts saying something about our demons. Just invite them for tea! Don't try to own them or befriend them, just invite them for tea. As guests being invited to tea they behave in your midst. They know they are guests and behave as such.

Stan

[aranuk]

Tony, many years ago I had difficulty meditating as the internal dialogue was sucha distraction to my efforts. Krishnamurti wrote that we should just observe the thoughts and not criticise or latch onto them, just observe them and they fade away. I did as he said and within a week or two I could meditate for half an hour in internal silence. Nowadays when I meditate I am in complete darkness with no thoughts or noises. I am like a receptor of outward sound and smells. It's not nothingness just I Amness. So my question is: What else can I do? Or is that just it?


Stan

[Tony]

Tony, many years ago I had difficulty meditating as the internal dialogue was sucha distraction to my efforts. Krishnamurti wrote that we should just observe the thoughts and not criticise or latch onto them, just observe them and they fade away. I did as he said and within a week or two I could meditate for half an hour in internal silence. Nowadays when I meditate I am in complete darkness with no thoughts or noises. I am like a receptor of outward sound and smells. It's not nothingness just I Amness. So my question is: What else can I do? Or is that just it?


Stan



Hello Stan,
What you are doing is fine, if it works for you. The OP was only a suggestion for those who might have a problem. I find I have to continually return to basics.

Your question. I should really address in private or in the meditation group. If you are happy with what your approach then stick with it. I know I'm playing with words, but being in complete darkness...no thoughts and no noise rings a little alarm bell.

There are meditators that cut all the senses, and one could find oneself stuck in a 'state'.

I have to go to the hospital now, but will get back to you.


King regards,
Tony

[Tony]

Dear Stan,

If we were on the same path we could talk in more detail, so here we can only generalise.
However, as we are on this forum together...we must have a karmic connection!

We'd need a little more discourse to be more accurate.
What you describe is something I've heard of before from certain Vipashana students, where the senses are not operating. This may or may not be happening to you, but others are reading this so they must be included.

Some paths seem to work by cutting everything out, maybe it is a process. But I know that when the Chinese invaded Tibet they found 'certain' practitioners in suspended animation (spaced out meditation) they could not tell if they were dead or alive.

I personally spent 25 years in what is called 'idiot meditation'! I just sat there, but didn't know what I was supposed to be looking for. This is not altogether bad news as it propelled understanding very intensely once receiving the 'pointing out instruction'. The reaction: “Is that all ?...I knew that when I was four years old!”

Back to your question. There are many points of view, this is just one.

Meditation is just becoming familiar with just being. This 'just being' is what we are, all the time...anywhere. So the senses should be wide open, in this way meditation is part of everyday life. And as the eyes are now open and perception is clear the mind has clarity.

However this clarity has to look in on itself. This is the moment of self-realisation. NOT that we realise the self, but realisation self arises! If we stop at a clarity of mind we are still in consciousness, this is a high state but not the end.

It's like this: FLOWER---------!!??££CONSCIOUNESS??!!££--------ESSENCE
This is our normal state.

When the mind/consciousness is clear we arrive at :

FLOWER---------CONSCIOUNESS--------ESSENCE. Now all we do is look at that clarity, and note, that which aware is of this clarity! This is ESSENCE! It is pure luminous knowing.
Its hallmark is compassion.

When we are in CONSCIOUSNESS that is an “I” construction.
In ESSENCE there is no constructed “I”. It is note a state, it just is.

We are beings of luminosity, lucid luminosity.

Because we get so involved in our CONSCIOUNESS/MIND/ THOUGHTS we do not notice ESSENCE.
ESSENCE is aware of everything that arises...just sitting there! What is seen, we cannot be.



Tony

[Tarka the Duck]

ESSENCE is aware of everything that arises

"THe master observes the world but trusts his inner vision.
He allows things to come and go.
His heart is as open as the sky"

Lao Tzu

[Jake]

Hello, Tony. I have a different problem with meditation. I do not know the proper language to use, as I am not a student of any one perspective. I will try...

Of course their are different approaches to meditation. One can meditate for insight, or one can meditate just to clear their minds. I have tried many different approaches.

The monkey mind is not that hard to overcome. It takes practice. A gentle 'pushing aside' of the thoughts. Or,, I can sit there and just 'watch' as the monkey chatter goes by, and observe them quietly.

To me it is like when you shake up a snowglobe. My awake and active mind is like when you shake up the snowglobe. When I meditate, it is like letting the white pieces settle, and then a picture will emmerge. (not the best analogy, but it will do)

Tony, at what point here are we supposed to 'drop' into more of a trance state?? I drop into trance quite easily. Too easy, in fact. The problem is that if I do not take the time to clear my mind, the ensueing experience can be quite chaotic. Have you ever run into this problem?? Do you ever have any energy body sensational states that you come accross while meditating??

I remember in another post where you said something about paying attention to that place in between breaths. I have found that controlled breathing is important too...

When I drop into trance too easily,,, it is like falling asleep,, I never remember what happened. It is like I just 'click' out...

Have you ever come accross this problem??

Openly, and honestly,,, Jake.

[aranuk]

Dear Stan,

If we were on the same path we could talk in more detail, so here we can only generalise.
However, as we are on this forum together...we must have a karmic connection!

We'd need a little more discourse to be more accurate.
What you describe is something I've heard of before from certain Vipashana students, where the senses are not operating. This may or may not be happening to you, but others are reading this so they must be included.

Some paths seem to work by cutting everything out, maybe it is a process. But I know that when the Chinese invaded Tibet they found 'certain' practitioners in suspended animation (spaced out meditation) they could not tell if they were dead or alive.

I personally spent 25 years in what is called 'idiot meditation'! I just sat there, but didn't know what I was supposed to be looking for. This is not altogether bad news as it propelled understanding very intensely once receiving the 'pointing out instruction'. The reaction: “Is that all ?...I knew that when I was four years old!”

Back to your question. There are many points of view, this is just one.

Meditation is just becoming familiar with just being. This 'just being' is what we are, all the time...anywhere. So the senses should be wide open, in this way meditation is part of everyday life. And as the eyes are now open and perception is clear the mind has clarity.

However this clarity has to look in on itself. This is the moment of self-realisation. NOT that we realise the self, but realisation self arises! If we stop at a clarity of mind we are still in consciousness, this is a high state but not the end.

It's like this: FLOWER---------!!??££CONSCIOUNESS??!!££--------ESSENCE
This is our normal state.

When the mind/consciousness is clear we arrive at :

FLOWER---------CONSCIOUNESS--------ESSENCE. Now all we do is look at that clarity, and note, that which aware is of this clarity! This is ESSENCE! It is pure luminous knowing.
Its hallmark is compassion.

When we are in CONSCIOUSNESS that is an “I” construction.
In ESSENCE there is no constructed “I”. It is note a state, it just is.

We are beings of luminosity, lucid luminosity.

Because we get so involved in our CONSCIOUNESS/MIND/ THOUGHTS we do not notice ESSENCE.
ESSENCE is aware of everything that arises...just sitting there! What is seen, we cannot be.



Tony

Tony my senses are working. I said when I meditate I do not hear any noises from within. Of course I hear noises, I am not deaf. I hear people making noise outside my house, I hear cars pass by. I smell the food in the kitchen. I see only darkness as my eyes are closed. I can taste the last thing I ate. I also can feel my body aches and the pressure on my bottom if I am sitting on a chair. So my 5 senses are awake. When I see darkness it is pitch black. No pictures flash in front of my eyes. I am a receptor of sorts as I said above. Although I am limited to my 5 senses. Now if I deliberately wish to see a mental picture it flashes for a nano second and disappears. I cannot hold on to it for even a second.

Stan

[Tony]

Hello, Tony. I have a different problem with meditation. I do not know the proper language to use, as I am not a student of any one perspective. I will try...

Of course their are different approaches to meditation. One can meditate for insight, or one can meditate just to clear their minds. I have tried many different approaches.

The monkey mind is not that hard to overcome. It takes practice. A gentle 'pushing aside' of the thoughts. Or,, I can sit there and just 'watch' as the monkey chatter goes by, and observe them quietly.

To me it is like when you shake up a snowglobe. My awake and active mind is like when you shake up the snowglobe. When I meditate, it is like letting the white pieces settle, and then a picture will emmerge. (not the best analogy, but it will do)

Tony, at what point here are we supposed to 'drop' into more of a trance state?? I drop into trance quite easily. Too easy, in fact. The problem is that if I do not take the time to clear my mind, the ensueing experience can be quite chaotic. Have you ever run into this problem?? Do you ever have any energy body sensational states that you come accross while meditating??

I remember in another post where you said something about paying attention to that place in between breaths. I have found that controlled breathing is important too...

When I drop into trance too easily,,, it is like falling asleep,, I never remember what happened. It is like I just 'click' out...

Have you ever come accross this problem??

Openly, and honestly,,, Jake.



Dear Jake,

Maybe we all have a different view on meditation, or work different ways. This may or may not help.


That which is aware of 'monkey mind'...images...trance state, is pure essence, one's essential nature. That cannot go into a trance, but mind or consciousness can.

However saying that, our true being has three qualities: Emptiness, Knowingness and Compassion. Compassion arises from Knowing Emptiness.
Now 'if' Knowingness is not present, we might find ourselves just in Emptiness and that could result in a 'spaced out' effect. This happens quite often!

This is quite a complex issue, as this can result into an extreme of nihilism and.... depression.

A similar thing happens with Emptiness not present, we see everything as real and solid, that is the extreme of eternalism.

This is why they have to go together as a unity, they are in fact the two truths. One ultimate the other relative...the middle way!

There seems to be no point in trance as we do not know what is going on. However barely noticing...not quite asleep is beneficial as it is pure awareness...just...being there!
If our awareness is too strong it starts to conceptualise. This is a very subtle business!

All the best,
Tony

[Tony]

Dear Stan,

If we were on the same path we could talk in more detail, so here we can only generalise.
However, as we are on this forum together...we must have a karmic connection!

We'd need a little more discourse to be more accurate.
What you describe is something I've heard of before from certain Vipashana students, where the senses are not operating. This may or may not be happening to you, but others are reading this so they must be included.

Some paths seem to work by cutting everything out, maybe it is a process. But I know that when the Chinese invaded Tibet they found 'certain' practitioners in suspended animation (spaced out meditation) they could not tell if they were dead or alive.

I personally spent 25 years in what is called 'idiot meditation'! I just sat there, but didn't know what I was supposed to be looking for. This is not altogether bad news as it propelled understanding very intensely once receiving the 'pointing out instruction'. The reaction: “Is that all ?...I knew that when I was four years old!”

Back to your question. There are many points of view, this is just one.

Meditation is just becoming familiar with just being. This 'just being' is what we are, all the time...anywhere. So the senses should be wide open, in this way meditation is part of everyday life. And as the eyes are now open and perception is clear the mind has clarity.

However this clarity has to look in on itself. This is the moment of self-realisation. NOT that we realise the self, but realisation self arises! If we stop at a clarity of mind we are still in consciousness, this is a high state but not the end.

It's like this: FLOWER---------!!??££CONSCIOUNESS??!!££--------ESSENCE
This is our normal state.

When the mind/consciousness is clear we arrive at :

FLOWER---------CONSCIOUNESS--------ESSENCE. Now all we do is look at that clarity, and note, that which aware is of this clarity! This is ESSENCE! It is pure luminous knowing.
Its hallmark is compassion.

When we are in CONSCIOUSNESS that is an “I” construction.
In ESSENCE there is no constructed “I”. It is note a state, it just is.

We are beings of luminosity, lucid luminosity.

Because we get so involved in our CONSCIOUNESS/MIND/ THOUGHTS we do not notice ESSENCE.
ESSENCE is aware of everything that arises...just sitting there! What is seen, we cannot be.



Tony

Tony my senses are working. I said when I meditate I do not hear any noises from within. Of course I hear noises, I am not deaf. I hear people making noise outside my house, I hear cars pass by. I smell the food in the kitchen. I see only darkness as my eyes are closed. I can taste the last thing I ate. I also can feel my body aches and the pressure on my bottom if I am sitting on a chair. So my 5 senses are awake. When I see darkness it is pitch black. No pictures flash in front of my eyes. I am a receptor of sorts as I said above. Although I am limited to my 5 senses. Now if I deliberately wish to see a mental picture it flashes for a nano second and disappears. I cannot hold on to it for even a second.

Stan


Well Stan, everything sounds hunky-dory!

Do you know of Samye Ling monastery in Eskdalemuir Scotland? It was the first Tibetan monastery built in the west, run by Akong Rinpoche, you may get some answers there.
www.samyeling.org



Good luck,
Tony

[aranuk]

:p


Dear Stan,

If we were on the same path we could talk in more detail, so here we can only generalise.
However, as we are on this forum together...we must have a karmic connection!

We'd need a little more discourse to be more accurate.
What you describe is something I've heard of before from certain Vipashana students, where the senses are not operating. This may or may not be happening to you, but others are reading this so they must be included.

Some paths seem to work by cutting everything out, maybe it is a process. But I know that when the Chinese invaded Tibet they found 'certain' practitioners in suspended animation (spaced out meditation) they could not tell if they were dead or alive.

I personally spent 25 years in what is called 'idiot meditation'! I just sat there, but didn't know what I was supposed to be looking for. This is not altogether bad news as it propelled understanding very intensely once receiving the 'pointing out instruction'. The reaction: “Is that all ?...I knew that when I was four years old!”

Back to your question. There are many points of view, this is just one.

Meditation is just becoming familiar with just being. This 'just being' is what we are, all the time...anywhere. So the senses should be wide open, in this way meditation is part of everyday life. And as the eyes are now open and perception is clear the mind has clarity.

However this clarity has to look in on itself. This is the moment of self-realisation. NOT that we realise the self, but realisation self arises! If we stop at a clarity of mind we are still in consciousness, this is a high state but not the end.

It's like this: FLOWER---------!!??££CONSCIOUNESS??!!££--------ESSENCE
This is our normal state.

When the mind/consciousness is clear we arrive at :

FLOWER---------CONSCIOUNESS--------ESSENCE. Now all we do is look at that clarity, and note, that which aware is of this clarity! This is ESSENCE! It is pure luminous knowing.
Its hallmark is compassion.

When we are in CONSCIOUSNESS that is an “I” construction.
In ESSENCE there is no constructed “I”. It is note a state, it just is.

We are beings of luminosity, lucid luminosity.

Because we get so involved in our CONSCIOUNESS/MIND/ THOUGHTS we do not notice ESSENCE.
ESSENCE is aware of everything that arises...just sitting there! What is seen, we cannot be.



Tony

Tony my senses are working. I said when I meditate I do not hear any noises from within. Of course I hear noises, I am not deaf. I hear people making noise outside my house, I hear cars pass by. I smell the food in the kitchen. I see only darkness as my eyes are closed. I can taste the last thing I ate. I also can feel my body aches and the pressure on my bottom if I am sitting on a chair. So my 5 senses are awake. When I see darkness it is pitch black. No pictures flash in front of my eyes. I am a receptor of sorts as I said above. Although I am limited to my 5 senses. Now if I deliberately wish to see a mental picture it flashes for a nano second and disappears. I cannot hold on to it for even a second.

Stan


Well Stan, everything sounds hunky-dory!

Do you know of Samye Ling monastery in Eskdalemuir Scotland? It was the first Tibetan monastery built in the west, run by Akong Rinpoche, you may get some answers there.
www.samyeling.org



Good luck,
Tony

Hi Tony I have been to the Samye Ling monastary a few times. Once as Akong Rinpoche's guest and once later when the Dalai Lama spoke there about 20 yrs ago. Akong once healed me from a long distance once. I spoke on the phone to him and that was all that was required. I met RD Laing as well before he died and spoke with him for two hours and he smoked half a packet of my cigarettes. Not all Scotsmen are mean you know. At least half of us quite generous! We can sometimes share half of what we have.


Stan

[ulli]

:p


Dear Stan,

If we were on the same path we could talk in more detail, so here we can only generalise.
However, as we are on this forum together...we must have a karmic connection!

We'd need a little more discourse to be more accurate.
What you describe is something I've heard of before from certain Vipashana students, where the senses are not operating. This may or may not be happening to you, but others are reading this so they must be included.

Some paths seem to work by cutting everything out, maybe it is a process. But I know that when the Chinese invaded Tibet they found 'certain' practitioners in suspended animation (spaced out meditation) they could not tell if they were dead or alive.

I personally spent 25 years in what is called 'idiot meditation'! I just sat there, but didn't know what I was supposed to be looking for. This is not altogether bad news as it propelled understanding very intensely once receiving the 'pointing out instruction'. The reaction: “Is that all ?...I knew that when I was four years old!”

Back to your question. There are many points of view, this is just one.

Meditation is just becoming familiar with just being. This 'just being' is what we are, all the time...anywhere. So the senses should be wide open, in this way meditation is part of everyday life. And as the eyes are now open and perception is clear the mind has clarity.

However this clarity has to look in on itself. This is the moment of self-realisation. NOT that we realise the self, but realisation self arises! If we stop at a clarity of mind we are still in consciousness, this is a high state but not the end.

It's like this: FLOWER---------!!??££CONSCIOUNESS??!!££--------ESSENCE
This is our normal state.

When the mind/consciousness is clear we arrive at :

FLOWER---------CONSCIOUNESS--------ESSENCE. Now all we do is look at that clarity, and note, that which aware is of this clarity! This is ESSENCE! It is pure luminous knowing.
Its hallmark is compassion.

When we are in CONSCIOUSNESS that is an “I” construction.
In ESSENCE there is no constructed “I”. It is note a state, it just is.

We are beings of luminosity, lucid luminosity.

Because we get so involved in our CONSCIOUNESS/MIND/ THOUGHTS we do not notice ESSENCE.
ESSENCE is aware of everything that arises...just sitting there! What is seen, we cannot be.



Tony

Tony my senses are working. I said when I meditate I do not hear any noises from within. Of course I hear noises, I am not deaf. I hear people making noise outside my house, I hear cars pass by. I smell the food in the kitchen. I see only darkness as my eyes are closed. I can taste the last thing I ate. I also can feel my body aches and the pressure on my bottom if I am sitting on a chair. So my 5 senses are awake. When I see darkness it is pitch black. No pictures flash in front of my eyes. I am a receptor of sorts as I said above. Although I am limited to my 5 senses. Now if I deliberately wish to see a mental picture it flashes for a nano second and disappears. I cannot hold on to it for even a second.

Stan


Well Stan, everything sounds hunky-dory!

Do you know of Samye Ling monastery in Eskdalemuir Scotland? It was the first Tibetan monastery built in the west, run by Akong Rinpoche, you may get some answers there.
www.samyeling.org



Good luck,
Tony

Hi Tony I have been to the Samye Ling monastary a few times. Once as Akong Rinpoche's guest and once later when the Dalai Lama spoke there about 20 yrs ago. Akong once healed me from a long distance once. I spoke on the phone to him and that was all that was required. I met RD Laing as well before he died and spoke with him for two hours and he smoked half a packet of my cigarettes. Not all Scotsmen are mean you know. At least half of us quite generous! We can sometimes share half of what we have.


Stan

Wow, you met RD Laing? Now I'm really impressed. He was one of my heroes.

[Tony]

Tony, many years ago I had difficulty meditating as the internal dialogue was sucha distraction to my efforts. Krishnamurti wrote that we should just observe the thoughts and not criticise or latch onto them, just observe them and they fade away. I did as he said and within a week or two I could meditate for half an hour in internal silence. Nowadays when I meditate I am in complete darkness with no thoughts or noises. I am like a receptor of outward sound and smells. It's not nothingness just I Amness. So my question is: What else can I do? Or is that just it?


Stan





Dear Stan,


Your question is very important and reveals the differences in paths.

Basically there are two approaches -starting at the beginning of the book, or at the end. I have to be very careful here as knowing the end can be misunderstood, one still has to practice!

We mustn't make assumptions on where we are, we have to know.

The tradition of starting at the beginning, where one is instructed how to meditate and the basics of defiling emotions and the use of antidotes is totally sound and valid. Then one meditates, and gradually the layers of obscurations peel away and one realises one's true nature. Much sitting on bum is needed!

The other way is to have the 'pointing out instruction' this is quite rare, and has to be given to the right person at the right time, and one either 'gets it' or doesn't. One is shown the nature of mind, this is called the 'view'. Then one merely sustains that. There is a bit more to it, but much sitting on bum is also needed.

This all depends on what sort of teacher one goes to... and what the universe dishes out! I went to Nepal for the instruction and it didn't really work, but have had it many times since then, and something happened. There is still much sitting on bum needed!

What one does now, may also depend on one's motivation and temperament. One's approach maybe
Hinayana (Theravada) Mahayana, Vajrayana or Mahamudra/Dzogchen. These are Tibetan Buddhist terms as you know. (These can be googled)

There is no right or wrong here we all have a right to be as we are. Some want enlightenment and just go to higher realms - they have done their stint. Others choose to be here for the benefit of all sentient beings. Those that stay here know exactly what they are doing, there IS NO wishful thinking. The rest of us have to sit on bums, and clear our confusion.



All the best,
Tony

[aranuk]

Thank you Tony. You are a wise man.

Stan