Avalon/Mystery School Comparison

[Fred Steeves]

I was wondering how many of the things discussed here, are also many of the same things that are held so secretly by groups like the Freemasons, Rosicrucian, etc. If I had to guess, I would have to guess quite a bit.

Now please, the last thing I want here is for someone to come on with the old I'm heir to an ancient royal bloodline, and I'm going to play 20 questions with you. Don't go there. (LOL) What I am interested in is any Avalonians who are, or have been a member, who would be willing to shed some light on this.

I know it's supposed to be this big secret, passed down straight from the ancient Egyptian Mystery Schools, and earlier, but we talk about that kind of stuff that 99.9% of people know nothing about anyway. So I'm willing to bet that more than a few honorary 33rd degrees could be passed out here, to people who have never set foot in a lodge.(Or couldn't afford a tux):rolleyes:

Then again I could be wrong, what say you?

Cheers,
Fred

[Kano]

I found this video of Sean Stone quite informative. A key thing for me that he hits on has to do with what the biggest secret is that is learned upon becoming a 33rd degree mason. Just by virtue of who his father is (movie director Oliver Stone), he claims to have access to people in these elite circles, some of which give him information on their knowledge and rituals. I found it to be a compelling watch no doubt.

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Sorry I have never been in a secret society and don't know what is true and what is not so I hope this video is still in the vein of the OP.

[Mike]

well...there is a masonic temple just a mere stone's throw from my house.

i will say that i attended a fuction or two. this was long before i developed any real interest in conspiracy theories or secret societies. i think i was 20 or so at that time. i had a vague idea of what it meant to be a mason, and i went to these functions simply because i thought it was a cool thing to do.

i was disappointed, honestly. seemed to me these were a bunch of guys who were looking for an excuse to get away from their wives or something. ideas were tossed around regarding community projects and so on, but it was basically your run of the mill male get-together - trivialities were discussed and jokes were told. (bad ones) they did seem excited to have a potential youngster as an initiate, but i had nothing in common with these men, which i regarded at the time as being no different than the schlubs down at the local pub.

[Fred Steeves]

Hi Kano. I'm kind of trying to stay away from the whole insidious side of things, as there is darkness in every endeavor. For instance, my great grandfather, and name's sake, was a Knight's Templar. I even have his ceremonial sword, and he was a good man.

So I'm trying to gravitate more towards what people actually learn at these lodges, besides how to pull off pot luck suppers and bingo.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Cheers,
Fred

[Fred Steeves]

i was disappointed, honestly. seemed to me these were a bunch of guys who were looking for an excuse to get away from their wives or something. ideas were tossed around regarding community projects and so on, but it was basically your run of the mill male get-together - trivialities were discussed and jokes were told. (bad ones) they did seem excited to have a potential youngster as an initiate, but i had nothing in common with these men, which i regarded at the time as being no different than the schlubs down at the local pub.

Hey Mike, someone in the chat mentioned that aspect too, and there probably is a lot of crap like that. Interesting. On the other hand, in 2003, well before I knew any of this stuff, I worked on a custom house for a year run by father and son, both high level Masons. Let me tell you, these guys knew their s**t when it came to physics and geometry, both of which come in very handy in custom home building.

Cheers,
Fred

[Kano]

Hi Kano. I'm kind of trying to stay away from the whole insidious side of things, as there is darkness in every endeavor. For instance, my great grandfather, and name's sake, was a Knight's Templar. I even have his ceremonial sword, and he was a good man.

So I'm trying to gravitate more towards what people actually learn at these lodges, besides how to pull off pot luck suppers and bingo.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred,

My apologies. Didn't mean to take things down the dark path. :)

I do know that most of the lodges that people have been to or participated in are considered "blue" lodges. These are the type of lodges that Chinaski described. The lodges such as P2 and so on are considered "white" lodges because of the "pure" wisdom which they share only with their initiates. These are the lodges that are likely teaching from the ancient Egyptian mystery schools. I have a feeling that if anyone here has any real knowledge of what gets taught at a "white" lodge, they either would never write about it on an internet forum, or they wouldn't write about it on an internet forum for very long (if you catch my drift). However, you may have assumed as much already. I will be watching this thread with much interest.

Cheers,
Kano

[Reaver]

If someone who is in a secret society (corrupt or otherwise) comes on this forum to reveal the society's most important secrets... well that kind of goes against the purpose of a secret society, doesn't it?

As far as I can understand there are two types of secret societies (these are just general terms). One is concerned with safekeeping knowledge and to protect it. They conceal such knowledge because in the wrong hands it could be catastrophic. The second type is a corruption of the so called mystery schools, knowledge becomes a tool for domination and control.

Now, you also have to consider history to understand why Type One societies would want to conceal such knowledge. Think of medieval times when the catholic church had massive power over Northern and Western Europe and think of their extreme intolerance. If an individual were to express ideas which went against the church's dogmas then in all probability, that individual would have been visited by members of the Inquisition and suffer a terrible fate. So people who were trying to preserve knowledge and keep their hides intact, had to be secretive. It was (and probably still is) a mechanism to counter the intolerance and stupidity of established institutions.

As for Type 2 societies, well I guess people on this forum have a general idea. Knowledge is kept hidden so only a few can **** on the rest of humanity. From another point of view, those corrupt societies are a mechanism to keep the System as hermetic as possible. It revolves around exclusivity, so only certain groups of people can get into influential positions. You could say that these societies run psychological evaluations on their members to determine who is fit to rise amongst the ranks of the elite. If you notice, the people who are part of these societies and who hold the lowest degrees are just idiots with bizarre altruistic dreams, some may just fancy the idea of belonging to an exclusive club... but there is a process of indoctrination and promises of big rewards. The most malleable and the most loyal are the ones who are allowed to rise within their ranks, the rest are just sheeple who form a very good front when it comes to Public Relations.

It seems that the rewards of Type One societies are the secrets of humanity and the Cosmos itself while the rewards of Type 2 societies are the secrets of the Demiurge, the kind of knowledge and the necessary acquaintances to rule over the world of gross matter... or the System's Matrix.

[Fred Steeves]

Here's a personal example, of how I have a tough time seeing many members of a forum such as avalon, being mystified by some of these mysteries.

On the sword I have is inscribed in Latin: "In hoc signo vinces". 'In this (sign) you shall conquer'. The sign, is the Knight's Templar symbol.
18377

Now of course the York Rite has it's taught version of the Templars, just the same as has been talked about ad naseum here, from every possible aspect. So my great grandfather was taught that under the sign of the Templar, he would conquer. This is not earth shattering.

Also on it, and please forgive if I mess this up, is "McMento Mori". 'Remember you shall die'. This is very true, we should, and it's also a big Buddhist concept talked about here often.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not out to besmirch anyone. I'm simply wondering like the old Wendy's commercial: "Where's The Beef"?

Talk to me...

Cheers,
Fred

[bearcow]

I have a feeling that if anyone here has any real knowledge of what gets taught at a "white" lodge, they either would never write about it on an internet forum, or they wouldn't write about it on an internet forum for very long (if you catch my drift).

There are more useful techniques and genuine occult information available in the books of franz bardon than you would ever find 95% of the "secret" lodges out there.

[Reaver]

@Fred Steeves

man, at least you could give your very own take on it.

Why the obsession with the "dark" side of secret societies? in part you can say thank you to some of the alternative media personalities for not even pointing out the fact that not every single secret society was created so evil lizard people could conquer the planet and for not pointing out that symbolism is a huge subject which can be used to uplift or break the human spirit.

On the other you can blame it on people who are dependent on the information coming out of their favourite alternative media personalities, as well as people who think they will learn more on a virtual forum than getting familiar with the works of people who dedicated their life to the pursuit of knowledge, esoteric and otherwise. You know it's easier to watch youtube videos which go on and on about the illuminati waving their magic wand to enslave people, rather than going beyond such a passive phase which requires a deeper study.



Please don't misunderstand, I'm not out to besmirch anyone. I'm simply wondering like the old Wendy's commercial: "Where's The Beef"?
Seriously, man. Write what you think, I don't see why you are so apologetic, if someone doesn't like your point of view... well then too bad.

[Fred Steeves]

Seriously, man. Write what you think, I don't see why you are so apologetic, if someone doesn't like your point of view... well then too bad.

Whatever Reaver...There, you got your reaction...Happy? (LOL)

[Ron Mauer Sr]

My brief experience with the Rosicrucian Order (by mail only, no meetings) during the 70's did not reveal anything to me that was not available elsewhere in book form. During that time there was a lot of in fighting about who was going to be in charge of the organization. Red flag for me. Then they made a request to be mentioned in my will, as a gesture of gratitude for all that I had learned. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I stopped paying the dues and of course the lessons stopped.

The only change that I noticed is that when I joined, I started to see an occasional pin point of light blink on, then off. Could happen in bright daylight or in the dark. My intuition told me that it was someone in the Rosicrucian Order checking up on me, or someone else doing the checking. That was at a time that was the beginning of my interest in learning about metaphysical topics. Maybe if I had been more disciplined about metaphysical studies I would be further along.

[Fred Steeves]

The only change that I noticed is that when I joined, I started to see an occasional pin point of light blink on, then off. Could happen in bright daylight or in the dark. My intuition told me that it was someone in the Rosicrucian Order checking up on me, or someone else doing the checking. That was at a time that was the beginning of my interest in learning about metaphysical topics. Maybe if I had been more disciplined about metaphysical studies I would be further along.

I remember our conversation about that over at TOT a ways back rmauser. Of course now we know time is not an issue, don't we?http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

[Cartomancer]

The mysteries peel away like the skin of an onion each revealing a new way to view many things. I would have to disagree a little with the thought that much of what is said and written here is like the real mystery schools. In any case I do agree with the thought that there is information and learning here that is somewhat akin to what was going on there. I think the real actual mystery schools were teaching a lot of science with an emphasis on geometry and mathematics.

There is much to learn here but much of it is different material than what a 33rd degree Mason would be concerned with. I think some secret society interests would be more likely to spin some of the more questionable things discussed on this board to their own advantage. All the while knowing they were selling an intelligent sounding hoax. You would have to look beyond Masonry for that to other more traditionally manipulative groups.

I guess weeding through bad material could be the first level or veil to pierce in the case of the Mysterium Avalonius. Not to say there is not tons of good stuff here either.

This is my 1000th post people.

[Cartomancer]

Fred,
In Hoc Signo Vinces was also the motto of the Legions of Rome (Legio de Christi) under Constantine the great. If you dig in you will see that Masonry and the Templar Knights sprang from the Byzantine Empire and Morphed via the Holy Roman Empire in addition to the secret guilds. 'Remember you will die' is the so called 'Deaths Head Cult' value of the skull as a device via which one may contemplate his or her mortality. Very appropriate for the Pirate Flag don't you think?

These Templar Knights somehow gained the knowledge of many of the deepest secrets of the Church. This dynamic of history has caused many of the major conflicts of history after the time of Christ. The Nazi's tried to co-opt all of the Templar concepts into some sort of new age version.

American Templar Knights are a little different than the traditional view of those orgs. In the United States of America one has to be a Christian to be a Knights Templar. Some of the other more popular rites think this is bad and do not like it. There is a dynamic of conflict and tension within Masonry over issues like this.

[Kano]

There is much to learn here but much of it is different material than what a 33rd degree Mason would be concerned with.

What types of things do you think a 33rd degree mason would be concerned with versus say a 32nd degree mason?

Congrats on your 1000th post!

[Cartomancer]

There is much to learn here but much of it is different material than what a 33rd degree Mason would be concerned with.

What types of things do you think a 33rd degree mason would be concerned with versus say a 32nd degree mason?

Congrats on your 1000th post!

I wouldn't really know. I am not a Freemason. I do know that 33rd degree Masons are Scottish Rite Masons and selected by their peers so the 32nd is as high as many go. 33rd degree Masons have learned all the esoteric teaching that they have to in order to attain that degree(if that is actually the highest degree). There is some info here that would be of interest but most of the things you see here have nothing to do with gnosticism or the actual mystery schools. That's what I was trying to say. Scan the first page of posts here now. I think there is only one of interest to Masons (greek gods and goddesses). There is however lots of news there caused by people who are Masons!

I think other orders exist that are like the mystery schools but they concern themselves with using manipulative means that go beyond the pale of what the average joe would believe. Some of the members of these groups are likely Masons but not all.

[lookbeyond]

Hello, this is a timely thread for me as i have had the opportunity to meet a man ( thru work) in his nineties who is a mason and by the pictures ive seen very highly decorated,

lookbeyond - of course my curiosity is killing me...!

[genevieve]

Fred--

FYI: I'm guessing that the words on the sword are actually "Memento Mori"


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

[Fred Steeves]

Fred--

FYI: I'm guessing that the words on the sword are actually "Memento Mori"


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

Yes Genevieve, you would be correct. Thank you for pointing that out! http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Cheers,
Fred

[13th Warrior]

Here's a personal example, of how I have a tough time seeing many members of a forum such as avalon, being mystified by some of these mysteries.

On the sword I have is inscribed in Latin: "In hoc signo vinces". 'In this (sign) you shall conquer'. The sign, is the Knight's Templar symbol.
18377

Now of course the York Rite has it's taught version of the Templars, just the same as has been talked about ad naseum here, from every possible aspect. So my great grandfather was taught that under the sign of the Templar, he would conquer. This is not earth shattering.

Also on it, and please forgive if I mess this up, is "McMento Mori". 'Remember you shall die'. This is very true, we should, and it's also a big Buddhist concept talked about here often.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not out to besmirch anyone. I'm simply wondering like the old Wendy's commercial: "Where's The Beef"?

Talk to me...

Cheers,
Fred

As i understand it, the Templars were the first to institute a banking system and this would align with what Santos Bonacci says the cross and ring means the union of the church and bank.

Much of my research concerning these matters seems to always back engineer to secret societies/teachings of the Hermetic type: Mind, body, spirit, astrology, mathematics, geometry, and alchemy (notice i didn't include "science").

[Sirius White]

Yes. They are.

I have come to realize all the information and knowledge I have unlocked within myself, is found in these orders. In fact, they are missing a great deal of it actually- that is unless they are taught/seek to unlock it within themselves either (instead of their superficial degree systems).

I have met quite a few enlightened folk in these orders, more so Rosicrucian than Masonic (these days, Masonic initiates tend to be advocates of ritual and brotherhood, but within a very specific system).

I'll tell you one thing- it feels incredible to know what I know, and be involved in the things that I am- and not ever had to swear an oath :)


-----
There are Masons and Rosircurians who are beyond what we can prototypically call the 33rd degree (in masonry). If one is destined to be a part of some of the knightly orders, they will be. Believe it or not, many of the knightly orders- beyond the military ones- were often initiates trained in dealing with what many here call the "Archon" situation.

The situation with those not from here, and those selected to interface with this situation is of the highest order.. And is not affiliated with any organization officially. There have been times where they have worked with them, and often times, against them (as there are some who work with malevolent forces here on earth, and orders were set up to curb/stop them).

I also find it astounding how many Masons I have met that assume the other-worldly stuff is all just archetypal, symbolic and also not literal. Have they not realized that archetypes manifest as real ALL the time?

Take care.

[nomadguy]

I find it far more important to know WHAT is their intention?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50292-Freemason-Logo-Truck-hauling-possible-FEMA-coffins-WI-USA

Update:

Meaning, is there a basic stated intention for these groups? Like a mission statement. "we are here to do this..." Like that?