An Opportunity to Live in Ecuador

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Dear All:

Immediately below this personal introduction is a post from my friend Christine Breese -- an extraordinary person by any standards, and the founder of the University of Metaphysical Sciences (UMS) that offers Bachelors, Masters and Doctorate Degrees in Metaphysics.

http://www.umsonline.org/AllAboutMetaphysicalMetaphysics/ChristineBreese.htm

http://gaiasagradaspiritualretreatcenter.com/art/StaffPics/christine-breese-nature4.jpg

Christine is now resident in Ecuador, and with her husband Bruce has created the Gaia Sagrada Spiritual Community & Retreat Center, near Cuenca. She plans to officially open Gaia Sagrada on 20 January, 2013.

The reason I'm posting this is that Christine -- who's been an Avalon member since last October -- is opening Gaia Sagrada to those who'd like to live a spiritually focused lifestyle.

I know that many Avalonians have become interested in Ecuador -- for all kinds of good reasons; so here may be an opportunity to take part in something that may be a life-changer for some of you, and is totally in line with Avalon's mission. For others, this may be your opportunity to live outside the USA in a pretty safe environment in the foothills of the Andes.

Movie theaters, US-quality shopping malls, and even an Apple Store are only 45 minutes away -- and in the other direction, the Amazon Jungle is two days' drive in a 4x4.

I've been to Christine's 55 acres of land, and it's a beautiful place. Christine herself is the kind of person one can sit and have coffee with and learn a LOT even in casual conversation. With a more intensive program and/or a more intensive stay, one can learn way, way more than that.

Christine is open to visitors staying for long periods and becoming full-fledged members of her community. She and I met recently, and I suggested that this opportunity could be made known to the members here: hence this thread.

I'll say no more... and here's Christine.

[Christine Breese]

Hello Fellow Light Bearers!

Thank you sooooo much Bill for the warm introduction. I have to say, Bill is one of those really cool networkers who brings people together. Bill is an interesting combination of brilliant philosopher with the discriminating mind of a scientist, and at the same time is a sweet brother who's happy to share a latte and crack a silly joke with you. What a great sense of humor he has!

Here are some of the daily activities at Gaia Sagrada:

• yoga
• meditation
• 3 vegetarian meals
• sauna
• hot tub
• gym
• hiking
• journeys to Cuenca
• campfires
• starry nights
• morning walks
• spiritual friendships
• music
• drum circles
• dancing
• and much more...
• We invite participants to share. If you have something to teach, please do!

This community has been my dream for a long time, and is now a reality in Ecuador. I've always wanted to create a community with like-minded others who:
• live in the present moment,
• centered in the heart,
• fully awake and aware in whatever is happening.
• absolute fearlessness, and
• knowing we are eternal essence while at the same time living the dream of being humans.

If you want to know how we plan on approaching the paradigm shift transition, feel free to visit http://gaiasagradaspiritualretreatcenter.com/MoreInfo/2012-Paradigm-Shift-Questions-Plans-Gaia-Sagrada.php

The time for this has come. Never before has it been more important for these kinds of communities to exist. It is time for us to harness our consciousness as awake and aware groups and project what we want into this reality. At the very least, it's time to anchor the energy of peace and joy on this planet and bring in the paradigm shift in a celebratory way. The people coming together at Gaia Sagrada are here to anchor love, compassion and peace in this reality and move through the transition with grace, effortlessness and ease.

We have all put energy into the horror of watching the plans of the minions unfold, but what if we put just as much energy into envisioning the beautiful future we can have instead? This reality is, after all, a bio-reflection machine that we can direct with consciousness. It's interesting that Gaia Sagrada manifests at a time such as this, especially in Ecuador where so many people want to be, during an era of incredible change, a time when it is of the utmost importance for large groups to take responsibility and control of what our consciousness puts out.

Sometimes I feel like I'm literally building Noah’s Ark to help a specific group get through this shift in a heavenly, peaceful state while the world goes through a dramatic death and re-birth process. Whatever happens, we’ll hardly notice it here.

I've often gazed at the empty rooms which are currently under construction, wondering what kind of magical spiritual family and tribe is going to gather here for this amazing walk through our transition to a New Earth reality. Are you one of them? I was guided to build it. Now, let’s see who comes.

The entire community around us loves us. They're all farmers, with chickens, cows and other livestock, they grow food, and they've been living with little money for a long time. They'll be hardly hit by whatever may be coming. We're poised and ready to be part of the community here, trading with them and farming. Right now we’re teaching them how to build solar hot water showers, collect rainwater, re-use gray water for toilets, and make solar ovens.

None of this is about money. We're unlikely to make a dime here since we priced everything at expenses only levels. If we do make anything, we would build more housing so more people can come. This is a solution for spiritually focused people who want to live in Ecuador during these changes, but have only a small savings. We have to cover expenses... but if you can only rent, this might be your option. Not everyone has enough to buy land and build a house.

If you are planning to buy land, build a house, or explore Ecuador to find out where your niche is, perhaps landing at Gaia Sagrada for a while will serve as a safe and easy landing for you as you get your bearings and get used to being in Ecuador. It takes a little while to adjust. Gaia Sagrada could be a way to ease gently into your new life and surroundings. Day trips to Cuenca and the surrounding areas are easy, and even trips to Vilcabamba, the beach or the jungle for a few days are easy from Gaia Sagrada.

To be able to move through this transition with grace is of the utmost importance. If you dream of a structure in which to live through all this in a balanced way, Gaia Sagrada is a good place to weather the storm. You can live in Ecuador for up to 9 months per year with visa extensions alone. We can point you to the right resources for all that. There are several ways to get residency as well and some people are doing that.

Bill moves around Ecuador a lot and visits Gaia Sagrada quite often, so there's a chance to get to know him and also enjoy what he has to offer. When he suggested telling you all about this, I was excited. I can’t think of a better group to be hanging out with through this shift. He's a wonderful person, as you know. He often talks about the high quality people who are on this forum, and how so many people want to find ways to leave North America and even Europe. This might be one of the ways.

With love to all -- Christine Breese

E-mail: gaiasagrada@umsonline.org (Subject: Avalon and Gaia Sagrada)
Website: www.gaiasagradaspiritualretreatcenter.com (beta site with all info and where early reservations can be made)
Website: www.gaiasagrada.com (coming soon)
Youtube: www.youtube.com/metaphysicalsciences if you want to know who I am

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

This is wonderful. All my life I wanted to know of a place where I could go and meet, talk - be with people on the same frequency as me. Gaia Sagrada seems like a manifestation of that dream...

I wouldn't even know where to begin in bringing about a change so profound as moving to Ecuador. But I want to. I want to drop everything and just come, at least to stay for a while - for as long as I could. With every fibre of my being.

Now my head is filled with 'material' difficulties, in how this might come about, and of family and friends I'd leave behind... They would not understand this.

Many thanks Christine and Bill! For me at least there is suddenly a lot of things to think about.

[we-R-one]

I feel the same way Star Mariner. I recently had asked a few forum members if any communities like the above existed. I remember one poster on a thread suggesting buying a large boat with like minded people where they could live together in peace as one. That may be great for some, but not if you get sea sick, lol. I will watch this community with much interest, and who knows, I just may find myself a member one day! Very interesting Christine, I love what you have put together; and thank you Bill for bringing this to our attention.

[Christine Breese]

To Star Mariner,

The wonderful thing is that we stay in touch with family and friends easily with skype video calls, magic jack, internet... Technology isn't evil, it's how you use it! In this case, we sure are happy to have technology on our side.

You would be surprised how easy it is to stay in touch with everyone. It doesn't feel that far away when you video conference free on skype with family and friends. You can have breakfast together or even a glass of wine together! We do it all the time. Once there are a lot of people here, we'll all take turns using the bandwidth to have skype calls with family and friends. That's part of the plan.

I know, it's a lot to think about. We had quite a dilemma when we first started thinking about all this as we were heavily rooted in the states (California), even had property, the business of the school University of Metaphysical Sciences, the whole gamut. However, Ecuador has turned out to be a really wonderful place to live, there are a lot of gringos here, we can still run the biz in the states fine and in fact we are expanding the school to South America and translating all the courses into Spanish now, it is lush and green, magical, Ecuadorians are really nice people, and we have found that it's not that much different from the states with all the luxuries of internet, phone, and all that. It's pretty much like middle class America. It's not like we are living in a hut in the jungle cooking over a fire!! teehee! Everything is pretty much middle class living.

Your family might even want to visit here! After all, Ecuador is an exotic vacation destination and there sure is a lot to see here. Once we are not in the construction phase anymore, we plan on taking day trips to the jungle, beaches, volcanoes, hot springs, and many other tourist destinations, using Gaia Sagrada as our home base. Your family and friends can too, with you! Plane trips out of Miami and LA are pretty cheap, about $500 - 600 round trip. If you don't travel at Christmas time or summer, flights can be as low as $300 - 400.

[white wizard]

I would love to go the the place just to visit. I hope you guys are successful down

there.

[Mark]

Need any university staff with some carpentry experience? Lol im an experienced university and college instructor with a lot of knowledge about esoteric as well as a mundane environmental geography background. Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for those able to get down there and who can also make a living while there!

[Knowrainknowrainbows!]

Serendipity! I was just searching "commune type living developments" a few weeks ago and last night wondering where I might go for a much needed R&R and to balance from work.

I will explore the links and certainly keep this in mind as a viable option as I am truly a pioneer at heart.

Thank you Christine!
KRKR

[Watching from Cyprus]

thank you Bill, very very much ... In Love and Honesty :-) Peter

[amandapoet]

Thank you for posting this opportunity. I have always felt compelled to be a part of such a community; however, I am still discerning whee my place is...amongst a community of like minded or bearing a light to stimulate the attention of the unawakened. I guess it all comes down to where can I do the most good? Being part of a group I know will greatly enhance the potential to manifest intention...it is a lot to consider...

I'm looking forward to visiting the links you posted Christine and learning more....

Pondering possibilities,
Amanda

[jiix]

Take me, now! please!

[Christine Breese]

To Rahkyt,

Sure. You can do carpentry work exchange for the discounts at Gaia Sagrada, as carpentry is a universal skill all over the world, of course! It's as cheap as $389 a month in the dormitory housing with 20 hours of work per week, that's the cheapest housing we have, but if you need higher level housing than that, it's still not that expensive for a shared room with one other person, loft by yourself or private room. So it's up to you what you would want to pay versus how much to work for the discounts.

However, making a living here in Ecuador might be pretty hard to do, unless you have some kind of internet income or some other kind of income that you make from a distance. First, you have to be a resident with a cedula to work here (their version of a social security number, pretty much), and you would have to be willing to work at about $2 per hour! That's what carpenters make here. Sooooo... if I was you, I'd save as much as you can and come with that instead of trying to make a living here. Just do work exchange to get the discounts at Gaia Sagrada to stretch your money out.

Carpenters and construction workers in general make only about $400 - $450 per month for four 40 hour work weeks. Minimum wage is $292 per month so carpenters do a little better than that, but it's not gringo wages here, that's for sure! Also, you better be able to speak Spanish fluently if you want to work on any of their crews. In general, they are not interested in taking on a gringo as they need the work themselves. To make a living here, you pretty much have to start your own biz and maybe you can get some gringos to pay you gringo wages, but they are also hip to the fact that cheaper labor is available to them here and they moved here so they can pay less, not more. It's a long shot. Gringos who move here and need to still make money because they don't have a savings or govt check, well, they pretty much have to start a restaurant or tourist biz of some sort or another.

Just FYI! Try to save what you can and come with that. It's best not to think you can make a living here. It's pretty much impossible unless you speak really fluent Spanish, get residency, and are willing to work seriously cheap!

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thanks for the response Christine, that is all very heartening to know! It's not so much my own discomfort from being cut off from family and friends, but their perception of me doing so. I believe they would think I was... abandoning my life, and them, for some pie-in-the-sky personal quest.

This project just feels so tremendously attractive though, so maybe I should spend less time worrying about other people and their lives and just follow what I want to do. But in thinking that I just reproach myself for being selfish! lol

It's a hard call! Made even harder when I consider the financial situation. I could afford to get to Ecuador, but once there I wouldn't subsist for long without an income.

[Strat]

the Amazon Jungle is two days' drive in a 4x4.


I can't express how enticing this is.

[Brodie75]

wonderful idea, I watched your youtube video and agree totally with all that you said.
I'd love to be able to join you all their.
perhaps i'll start my own :peace::peace:
Much love guys

[4evrneo]

Wow, Thank you so much Bill and Christine. This sounds amazing and wonderful. This sounds like of such a place of peace and love, which is exactly what I envision myself being a part of. I am going to meditate upon this opportunity and see what happens. Yes, I am source of Love and have much to give, : )
I will definitely be contacting for more information.

Love & Light, from the heart.
Annette

[Christine Breese]

Here are some links to places you can get info about residency, ecuador living costs, and even ask questions, etc.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ecuador_expats/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cuenca_ecuador/
http://www.ecuadorforums.com/index.php
http://blog.pro-ecuador.com/
http://cuencahighlife.com/ and get on their email list for Gringo Tree on the left side.

The place I got the most out of was reading people's blogs who live in Ecuador. Just search for them and you will find them. There are a lot of other resources, just google it, but these links are for starters which are forums you can join and ask questions or read what others are saying.

Oh, and don't forget, the Ecuador Consulate nearest you in your country is a good source of info. I found in the USA that the Ecaudorian Consulate in Washington DC was the most helpful. The CA Consulate wasn't that organized or helpful, and there are always girls who answer the phone who don't seem to want to talk to anyone. The Washington DC consulate was much more professional.

[Ontarioguy]

I agree with you Star Mariner, there is a great deal to think about before just upping and leaving family and friends behind like this. The same goes for me here in that family and "some not all" friends would think I have lost my mind, and family especially would lose much respect for me seein me head for some "pie in the sky" as you put it. I share your feelings for sure. Sounds absolutely like paradise....yes. Some will jump at it , others will not. Specially those with aging parents that they are very close to who might not have much longer to live. It will not be an easy decision to just leave and move far away from them. However, once again it does sound very exciting for those who are without much baggage and are easier able to take off at a moments notice. Thanks to Bill & Christine for sharing this very interesting information and oppertunity.

[CD7]

Sounds like a great experience! Would love to visit....the less of modern society the better for me...

Thanks for the information and the opportunity for others to try something like this out :)

[Christine Breese]

To Ontarioguy:

Ha! yes, it's true, at first they think you are losing your mind and try to talk you out of it, fervently. After you make the leap though, then they think you are the great brave adventurer, get jealous and have travel lust, and feel courageous enough to come and visit you and see what you are up to! Before you do it, they have one perspective, but after you do it and report back to them that it's awesome, they suddenly have a whole different respect and perspective of you. I hear you about the aging parents thing, though, and wanting to be there for them as they need you. That's definitely something to consider. Like you said, not everyone can do this.

[amandapoet]

One thing I could not find a clear answer to is if this were open to those with young children? Or is this community geared more for adults? For my individual situation the only feasible way I could participate in a community such as this is to be fully committed and as a working participant...or that is the community lifestyle I have had in my mind.

~Amanda

[Christine Breese]

Whew! You guys tuckered me out for the day with the questions! I'll come back tomorrow and see what other questions you have, but I have to take a break! Feel like I wrote a book! This oughta keep ya going for a while!

Oh, there was one other question I didn't address yet about Gaia Sagrada Spiritual Community, unfortunately we aren't set up for children right now. We have to keep it simple in the beginning, so only adults and teenagers old enough who are interested in spiritual practices and want to participate in the workshops, yoga and meditation. We don't have anything else for them to do or any kind of day care right now. Eventually we hope to cater to children and families as this community grows, but it's not something we can do right now. I'm so sorry!

[Christine]

Christine, you said:
... it isn't safe to live outside of the city unless you are in a family compound or a gated community with a guard.
...so I'm wondering ... how are you protecting what you're building right now?

Thanks for all this information. I hope things go well for you there.

~ Doodah

Hi Christine.... Hi Doodah.... Hi everyone!

The quote jumped out at me too. It pretty much left me thinking Um? I am not sure I agree with that. I actually know some folks who live out in the country in Ecuador either alone or with their immediate family and haven't experienced any problems. Much depends on how you integrate with your neighbors, the attitudes you carry and the life style you choose.

I have posted a lot of information about Ecuador on different threads and have now been living here for a year and a half. Wow, time flies.

I do want to thank Christine for her time writing all this information down, I know how much work it is as I was inundated with questions too. There is a lot to learn about a country and as many views about living in it as there are people, so it is difficult to really know a place until you visit there yourself.

I have been to Christine and Bruce's place and it is amazing what these two high energy people have done. If someone wants to visit Ecuador, have a good place to start their explorations from, maybe stay awhile and explore the area plus be in the company of some very wonderfully awake folks I would recommend Gaia Sagrada as a good jumping off place. Christine has explained to me the different models she has for opening her center to the larger world.

I do agree with Christine that community is the way we should to be living as we experience the accelerating changes. Community challenges us, fulfills us and teaches us in ways that we do not get to experience in isolation.

Hey there Christine - if I get a little more time I will try and help here with answering some of the questions.

With the warmest regards,

Christine

[blufire]

Buying land is not a problem for anyone, whether they're resident or not. The price of land is often less than $10,000 per acre (though prices are increasing now that more and more expats are arriving).

Jeez Bill, you can get great farmland in Kansas for $5,000 an acre and here in the Appalachian Mountains you can purchase stunning mountain land for $600 an acre.

For the past several months I read your (Bill) posts and even though your general view of our future aligns with mine I always come to a screeching halt at your fairly adamant counsel at moving to Ecuador. You have flat out said at least a couple times that those of us who live in the US should consider leaving the country asap. It would be helpful if you could elaborate on why you have this opinion.

Staying in line with this thread I will have to say these types of ‘communities’ have always confused me . . . . I have such a difficult time envisioning myself mediating, enjoying sumptuous meals, strolling through the gardens, soaking in hot tubs, going to workshops becoming more enlightened and spiritual . . . etcetera while the local Ecuadorian people do most of the work and take care of me. I also feel these types of ‘communities’ only favor the independent fairly wealthy. . . .

For me, going to Live somewhere means you choose to live ‘in that place’ because of the people, culture, heritage and land. For me, taking my usual way of living with my culture, my heritage and nationality to a dramatically different location would defeat the purpose of moving.

This retreat sounds very lovely and idealistic . . . . I just wish for once it was a place for everyone no matter their financial situation . . . . even in this beautiful ‘sacred’ place where one can come to become more ‘spiritual’ everyone will be divided by financial ability and even nationality . . . . somehow for me this defeats the purpose of ‘living’ there to shift into the new paradigm . . . if you go to live in such a beautiful place with the old paradigm solidly in place how much harder will it be to ‘shift paradigms’?

[CD7]

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/last_event/world/world_peru.php


Gathering people of like minds together Great! But assuming there are known safe zones on this globe is something we should take with a grain of salt :)

Not exactly in your neck of the woods but close enough to see an event may occur anywhere on this globe

[WhiteFeather]

I have envisioned these thoughts about this community in ecuador today. While meditating in a city park this afternoon. And All good i might interject.

Firstly it would take some adjusting for myself, as i come from a large city. I think i could swing it......

It would probably be a great idea if we could possibly Time Share for a month or so. Just a thought that came to mind.

My Envisions of This Community: An Ecuadorian Atlantis...if you will
Our community would participate in spiritual activities. Cooking, Crafts, Music, Dance, Meditation, Hiking, Fishing, Healing, Stargazing At Night, Sight Seeing, etc. Skys the limit.

If we have children would the community have an educational system. This would be a plus. And perhaps we could leave out American History being most of it was B/S anyways. I heard WhiteCrowBlackDeer (Paula) is a retired teacher. I would elect her principal.

I had This Scenario in mind in one of the daily activities.....if you will. Alot of fun and bliss here. And Look at that TeePee! Im in total Awe. I wouldnt mind sleeping in one of those on a starry filled night in Ecuador.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZ5khB4kHg&list=UUYjIv7ESbB9BvUoDigOnEqQ&index=20&feature=plcp

[Bill Ryan]

-------

A note to all: I've split this thread about Christine Breese's community, Gaia Sagrada, into two (this one and a new thread called Living in Ecuador - Questions and Answers (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50443-Living-in-Ecuador-Questions-and-Answers)).

Mixed in with the valuable discussion about her community, there were many important and intelligent questions and comments about living in Ecuador in general. So to keep the original thread on topic, I've moved those posts to that new thread.

[Davidallany]

Hello Fellow Light Bearers!

Thank you sooooo much Bill for the warm introduction. I have to say, Bill is one of those really cool networkers who brings people together. Bill is an interesting combination of brilliant philosopher with the discriminating mind of a scientist, and at the same time is a sweet brother who's happy to share a latte and crack a silly joke with you. What a great sense of humor he has!

Here are some of the daily activities at Gaia Sagrada:

• yoga
• meditation
• 3 vegetarian meals
• sauna
• hot tub
• gym
• hiking
• journeys to Cuenca
• campfires
• starry nights
• morning walks
• spiritual friendships
• music
• drum circles
• dancing
• and much more...
• We invite participants to share. If you have something to teach, please do!

This community has been my dream for a long time, and is now a reality in Ecuador. I've always wanted to create a community with like-minded others who:
• live in the present moment,
• centered in the heart,
• fully awake and aware in whatever is happening.
• absolute fearlessness, and
• knowing we are eternal essence while at the same time living the dream of being humans.

If you want to know how we plan on approaching the paradigm shift transition, feel free to visit http://gaiasagradaspiritualretreatcenter.com/MoreInfo/2012-Paradigm-Shift-Questions-Plans-Gaia-Sagrada.php

The time for this has come. Never before has it been more important for these kinds of communities to exist. It is time for us to harness our consciousness as awake and aware groups and project what we want into this reality. At the very least, it's time to anchor the energy of peace and joy on this planet and bring in the paradigm shift in a celebratory way. The people coming together at Gaia Sagrada are here to anchor love, compassion and peace in this reality and move through the transition with grace, effortlessness and ease.

We have all put energy into the horror of watching the plans of the minions unfold, but what if we put just as much energy into envisioning the beautiful future we can have instead? This reality is, after all, a bio-reflection machine that we can direct with consciousness. It's interesting that Gaia Sagrada manifests at a time such as this, especially in Ecuador where so many people want to be, during an era of incredible change, a time when it is of the utmost importance for large groups to take responsibility and control of what our consciousness puts out.

Sometimes I feel like I'm literally building Noah’s Ark to help a specific group get through this shift in a heavenly, peaceful state while the world goes through a dramatic death and re-birth process. Whatever happens, we’ll hardly notice it here.

I've often gazed at the empty rooms which are currently under construction, wondering what kind of magical spiritual family and tribe is going to gather here for this amazing walk through our transition to a New Earth reality. Are you one of them? I was guided to build it. Now, let’s see who comes.

The entire community around us loves us. They're all farmers, with chickens, cows and other livestock, they grow food, and they've been living with little money for a long time. They'll be hardly hit by whatever may be coming. We're poised and ready to be part of the community here, trading with them and farming. Right now we’re teaching them how to build solar hot water showers, collect rainwater, re-use gray water for toilets, and make solar ovens.

None of this is about money. We're unlikely to make a dime here since we priced everything at expenses only levels. If we do make anything, we would build more housing so more people can come. This is a solution for spiritually focused people who want to live in Ecuador during these changes, but have only a small savings. We have to cover expenses... but if you can only rent, this might be your option. Not everyone has enough to buy land and build a house.

If you are planning to buy land, build a house, or explore Ecuador to find out where your niche is, perhaps landing at Gaia Sagrada for a while will serve as a safe and easy landing for you as you get your bearings and get used to being in Ecuador. It takes a little while to adjust. Gaia Sagrada could be a way to ease gently into your new life and surroundings. Day trips to Cuenca and the surrounding areas are easy, and even trips to Vilcabamba, the beach or the jungle for a few days are easy from Gaia Sagrada.

To be able to move through this transition with grace is of the utmost importance. If you dream of a structure in which to live through all this in a balanced way, Gaia Sagrada is a good place to weather the storm. You can live in Ecuador for up to 9 months per year with visa extensions alone. We can point you to the right resources for all that. There are several ways to get residency as well and some people are doing that.

Bill moves around Ecuador a lot and visits Gaia Sagrada quite often, so there's a chance to get to know him and also enjoy what he has to offer. When he suggested telling you all about this, I was excited. I can’t think of a better group to be hanging out with through this shift. He's a wonderful person, as you know. He often talks about the high quality people who are on this forum, and how so many people want to find ways to leave North America and even Europe. This might be one of the ways.

With love to all -- Christine Breese

E-mail: gaiasagrada@umsonline.org (Subject: Avalon and Gaia Sagrada)
Website: www.gaiasagradaspiritualretreatcenter.com (beta site with all info and where early reservations can be made)
Website: www.gaiasagrada.com (coming soon)
Youtube: www.youtube.com/metaphysicalsciences if you want to know who I am

Hi Christine,
I had the pleasure of meeting you in M.T. once.
I was wondering if you ever considered following the example of Plum village in France where people live off of their work, mainly farming.

[Christine Breese]

Hi David, what is M.T.? Montana? Sorry if I don't remember what it is!

In answer to your question, we do plan on growing as much of our own food as possible at some point, and eventually create enough to share with others as well! Unfortunately, we can't depend on anything like that right now to bring in the expenses of the center. That sort of thing takes a while to develop. Sounds nice though! For now, agriculture will be one of the cottage industries of the center, among other things possibly. Because we are making all the prices so cheap at expenses only levels, we have to come up with some cottage industries so this can self-sustain. Agriculture, well, eventually maybe we can catch up with Ecuadorians! Produce is pretty inexpensive here though, so it's not going to meet the expenses right now. We would have to create a pretty large enterprise to do that. For now we are going to try to grow enough food here to help keep the expenses down. That's a start!

[Davidallany]

Hi David, what is M.T.? Montana? Sorry if I don't remember what it is!

In answer to your question, we do plan on growing as much of our own food as possible at some point, and eventually create enough to share with others as well! Unfortunately, we can't depend on anything like that right now to bring in the expenses of the center. That sort of thing takes a while to develop. Sounds nice though! Will take money to make that happen.

Hi Christine,

This is where I met you http://www.madretierra.com.ec/
Madre Tierra.
I would like to donate a tree for your land in 2013, do you accept trees?

[Christine Breese]

Oh! Ok! I know Madre Tierra, where the talks happen sometimes. Nice place! Sure a tree sounds nice! We have a lot of trees, especially pine and eucalyptus trees. What kind of tree do you have? So you are already living here in Ecuador?

[Davidallany]

Oh! Ok! I know Madre Tierra, where the talks happen sometimes. Nice place! Sure a tree sounds nice! We have a lot of trees, especially pine and eucalyptus trees. What kind of tree do you have? So you are already living here in Ecuador?

I do not have a tree currently, I was thinking of getting you fruit, chocolate or nuts trees or something like Yuka, potato and lettuce, or something that can be eaten. Pine and Eucalyptus have medical properties.
I do live in Loja.

[Christine Breese]

So David, what is your story? What brought you to Ecuador, and Loja in particular? Are you farming and own a place there?

Yum! Chocolate! But it won't grow well at this elevation, :( Avacado, tomato trees, figs, the angular type of papaya, those all grow well here (although we have a lot of avacado and tomato trees already). We are curious about figs! yum!

Yes, one of the cottage industries we have planned here is to make tinctures and oils with things like pine and eucalyptus in them. Did you notice that sometimes the honey has an ever so slight taste of eucalyptus in it? It's really nice!

[blufire]

Christine, I would be interested in what your maximum population will be for your retreat and surrounding community. I have been doing a large amount of research for this sort of element for the small town where I live now. Where will you be drawing your line as far as growth and the consumption of your natural resources?

We are also identifying local economic development dynamics that will stay firmly within our sustainable and balanced eco-system we thrive in now. We are also intently planning what our future will look like especially for the next generations . . . an example is acknowledging our past and current heritage as a very small coal mining mountain town and moving our dependence from the coal and gas industry into renewable natural resource driven free energy while keeping our heritage and culture, which is largely colored by our scotch-Irish ancestors.

We are examining deeply how we can move into a community that is attractive to an outside demographic which is attracted to this area because of the incredible natural rugged beauty and magical mountain mystic without that ‘new element’ changing who we are. Also, instead of that ‘outside element’ influencing a negative change in our natural spiritual foundation . . . we want our soul and spirit be a welcoming retreat from the difficulties of the world in general and perhaps let this place and people plant a new seed for the people who come our way.

I can’t imagine addressing these sorts of questions and dynamics within a totally new and different country . . . I am consumed with them in the area that I know very well and is my culture and heritage.

My main reason for asking this is because of one of your missions in shifting into a new paradigm and this is my focus as well . . . how do we as shepherds within our communities not go down the same path and set ourselves up and repeat the same history over and over. I am focused on creating a new paradigm that will begin to heal our earth and provide a nurturing thriving planet that is balanced and truly sustainable for future generations . . .Beginning with my little mountain town and the beautiful souls that live here..

P.S. I hope I put this in the right thread . . . if not, could one of the mighty mods give 'er a boot to the right one.

[Christine Breese]

Strat said: “Do we just show our passport to cross borders?”
yep, just show your passport to cross borders. Some countries require a visa, but I don’t think many require a visa of those from the USA. Just have to check online and do a search to see if the country you plan to visit requires a visa. Ecuador doesn’t require a visa from USA’ers. No immunizations either, that’s good!

Blufire said: I will have to say these types of ‘communities’ have always confused me . . . . I have such a difficult time envisioning myself mediating, enjoying sumptuous meals, strolling through the gardens, soaking in hot tubs, going to workshops becoming more enlightened and spiritual . . . etcetera while the local Ecuadorian people do most of the work and take care of me. I also feel these types of ‘communities’ only favor the independent fairly wealthy. . . .


At $389 per month with 20 hours per week of work exchange for a discount, I would hardly call this a place for the wealthy to come. This place isn't posh, fancy, uppity or elegant, and there won’t be any young Ecuadorians fanning you, bringing you cool towels on a silver platter, or feeding you grapes, serving you hand and foot! This place is purposely functional, humble, simple, and basic, so it is not a wealthy person’s tourist spot. We also don’t want to live luxuriously and obnoxiously in a place where there are poor people. That is not appropriate. It is simple living with all your needs met, but in no way will this feel like you went to Club Hilton! This is more like camp for adults! This is humble and simple living, completely functional, but not fancy or "rich." (I have to say I think it's rich though because of all the nature magic and the peace!)

In fact, most of the work will be done by gringos coming from abroad who need a discount to even be here. If they are doing 5, 10, 15 and 20 hours of work, well, that’s not Ecuadorians serving you. If you want to pay full price (which is basically our expenses of having you here), then you would be one of the rare few. It seems that almost everyone has needed some kind of discount or another to come here. We are making this a price that even Ecuadorians can afford, so how can this be only for the wealthy? Did you even look at our prices page before you made that comment?

I spent my life being poor and I could never go to a retreat center to heal, grow or experience a spiritual lifestyle and fellowship. That is why I created Gaia Sagrada, specifically priced for ordinary people like myself who don’t have wealth.

Who is serving who… we serve the Ecuadorians

It is the other way around from what you are suggesting. Since gringos are working 5, 10, 15 or 20 hours per week depending on the discount they want off already seriously lowball prices, well, I wouldn't say Ecuadorians are serving us here. This is COMMUNITY, not a place for wealthy to get served. We all do what it takes to make this work.

In fact, WE serve the Ecuadorians because with those gringo work exchange hours we are not only maintaining the community but also building solar ovens for the community, giving them the materials and teaching them how. We also teach them how to make solar hot water with tubes on the roof, and we work WITH them building all these things, so this is a far cry from what you are envisioning. Who is really serving who here? Oh, and did I mention that we are planning on teaching English to the poor kids here so they have a little of what the rich kids are able to have? Learning English really expands a kid’s opportunities as they grow up. We just have to get the right English teaching person here with a TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language) who wants to exchange some work for a discount who wants to be here! Also, there are many Ecuadorians who are interested in yoga and meditation, and have been for a long time but nothing like this was here before. For those in our community the classes we give to the community are FREE! That nixes your nationality or financial separation idea!

Honestly, we feel more Ecuadorian as time goes by than anything else. We care about their country, their issues, we want to see their reality improve, and we take the actions that are within our power to do while honoring their ways. We learn THEIR ways, not the other way around. It actually feels like a symbiotic relationship where we help them with what we know, and they help us with what they know. We give them what they need, and they give us what we need. We are equals working together here. We have already made a huge difference in their community and these people are really happy we are here. It doesn’t feel like a gringo invasion here at all, and in fact feels more like the Eagle and the Condor Legend coming true, where the north and the south begin to work together and from that is born peace and synergy. Read Legend of the Eagle and the Condor (http://gaiasagradaspiritualretreatcenter.com/MoreInfo/Eagle-and-Condor-Legend.php) here.

Those who we give work to, they are really grateful they don’t have to commute to the city for work or go to the jungle mines and coastal farms all week, sleeping in a field, only being with their families on the weekends. They are so happy that they can remain here with their families all week, sleep in their own beds every night, and live a normal life here in the mountains. It is a rare opportunity to be able to earn money in these little mountain towns. They see this as a HUGE blessing in their lives that they can work here and live with their families. They also say that they have never worked for people who actually respect them as equals (there is a lot of class separation here, the bosses treat the workers as if they are second class). It took some getting used to, as they weren’t sure how to act around bosses who were so nice to them, joked around, and just acted normal and regular toward them. In the beginning we didn’t know this was unusual, and as time went on we found out why they were so confused around us at first. Now they are totally relaxed and joke around back with us, but they felt really confused at first. It was new to be treated as an equal.

Bluefire said: For me, going to Live somewhere means you choose to live ‘in that place’ because of the people, culture, heritage and land. For me, taking my usual way of living with my culture, my heritage and nationality to a dramatically different location would defeat the purpose of moving.


We are part of their community now, sharing free energy techniques for hot water and solar ovens with them, friends with them, hanging out at parties, dancing, trading food and wood with them, learning from them, and even being just a regular part of the neighborhood. We aren't doing the “USA in Ecuador” thing at all. We LOVE Ecuador and the Ecuadorians. Spanish is sexy! I love South America, it is still very free. I love the culture, the dance-able music, the exotic fruits most people have never seen before, this place is amazing! And the workers, well, they have all become our friends. They are not workers to us. If they are ill, we visit them and bring something for them. If they are having a party, they invite us. This is not what you are envisioning like a wealthy versus servant thing. We ARE living the new paradigm here, big time!

This is not about just being some place cheap for us, although that is what makes it possible to offer the prices we are offering to the not-so-wealthy people, including Ecuadorians, who can come here and be part of this. This is about immersion in the magic and emerging spirituality of this continent, which has been ignored for the most part by most spiritual retreat centers. We are the first of our kind here and we have been welcomed.

Blufire said: This retreat sounds very lovely and idealistic . . . . I just wish for once it was a place for everyone no matter their financial situation . . . . even in this beautiful ‘sacred’ place where one can come to become more ‘spiritual’ everyone will be divided by financial ability and even nationality . . . . somehow for me this defeats the purpose of ‘living’ there to shift into the new paradigm . . . if you go to live in such a beautiful place with the old paradigm solidly in place how much harder will it be to ‘shift paradigms’?


Well, let me ask you, can you afford to pay $389 per month if you do 20 hours a week of work exchange? What do you live on now? This IS a place for everyone no matter what their financial situation. Also, are you willing to sit side by side with Ecuadorians, even poor ones, in meditation? There is no nationality separation here.

Everyone wealthy at Gaia Sagrada? I think not. People coming here will pay less than a thousand a month, less depending on how much work they do, and me and other staff? We only make $292 a month, Ecuador’s minimum wage. We make less than the construction guys! Far from wealthy I would say. Again, we are here for providing a service to those who have never been able to afford a community or retreat center.

Check reality facts before projecting!


Sooooo… just letting you know, this ain’t what ya think it is! Be careful with projections as they are often wrong, especially if you haven’t done your homework before making a comment, like looking at our prices page! Obviously our prices are not geared toward the wealth. This is expenses only! Did you even look at our prices page and get educated about the subject before making that statement? Just sayin… reality check ALL projections to see if you are truly seeing what you think you are seeing! Sorry to chastise you on this one Blufire, so please take it in the spirit it is offered, just a reality check. Check your facts before making a negative comment!

Aaah, don’t worry, we are all guilty of making assumptions here and there, so no hard feelings. I just had to point out the facts on this one. Couldn't let this one slide by. And just so you know, I have resented those “wealthy only need apply” retreat/resorts too, because I could never partake of them, and I always gazed longingly at these kinds of retreats. If I got to even do work exchange at any of them, I was still on the outside just “serving” everyone else, working long hours just for the privilege of being there, and not getting to partake in all the classes and spiritual growth others were getting to be part of who had money. I was always so jealous of that!

This is why Gaia Sagrada exists, to finally make this reachable for those of us of ordinary means! You’re invited! I think you could afford it! There isn't anyone who couldn't if they really wanted to be here for a month or two! Do you think basically charging someone the expenses of feeding them and housing them is fair? It isn't the $6000 - $10,000 per month that a retreat center in the USA costs! We're talking $389 for a MONTH! I think that's a pretty good offer we are doing. We are not in this for profit obviously. We are in service in many directions, both to those who want to live a spiritually focused life and the Ecuadorian community around us.

[Christine Breese]

Ahh, Blufire, our posts crossed at the same time in cyberspace! Your second post was a completely different energy. As to your question, I really couldn't tell you how to create a community in the place where you are. I'm not sure where you are, is it a coal mining town in the Appalachians, I'm guessing? (I have hiked the Appalachians, so beautiful!) I can't really speak to how you would create your center or community.

I've just done this by the seat of my pants and let things unfold in the way they were supposed to. It's not like I had a manual on how to do this, especially in South America where nothing like this exists before Gaia Sagrada. I just went with the flow, didn't push the river, and let the right people and right situations come to me as they were given. Somehow the right connections always turned up as we needed them. That's how I know we have been on the right track, when things just unfold for you and it's more like following directions from spirit than directing the show! I would just suggest you open up and allow yourself to be guided. That's what I do. I don't do affirmations, visualizations, all that mind power stuff. It works to a certain extent, but there is a much higher way to manifest than "directing" physical reality with your ego to get "more of what you want." I just basically say, "I am in service, do what your divine will is through me," and then after that it's sort of like being a secret agent in this reality just following directions from spirit. I just do what I'm guided to do, and somehow something happens! It works better than "manifesting." I tell people to throw their manifesting skills books out and just surrender to the higher power of love and let that energy be the creator.

As to putting a cap on our population here, we aren't sure where that cap is. We will just let it grow until it can't anymore. We're going to start with 50 people and see where it goes from there. I think it could go up to 150.

[write4change]

To BlueFire, I share your concerns.

To Christine Breese: Thanks to Bill and having more time I have now read your site all of it. Because you are addressing the problem I will spend the 2,000 for the degrees. Probably not til after January but if we are still here I will. In fact, if things are stable I may come down for 3 months. Once upon a time in the early 80s I paid a thousand dollars for three days and two nights with both Scott Peck and Deepak Chopra. That did not include food and lodging so yes I know of what you speak. I did not have a problem with it then other than I was aware that they gave almost none of their knowledge for free. All of the great masters spoke at one time or another to everyone who came to listen. Had people even done what Camelot and Avalon did in any form for the hippies etc. in coming to consciousness we might not be in as bad a shape as we are. Even EST, Landmark, and Lifespring are not and never were cheap and much of their push feels very greedy rather than conscious. Most of these once was enough for me.

Thank you for putting yourself out there.

BlueFire, I think trying to do anything with Americans by Americans is triple difficult because most Americans know so little about history and facts and have really been taught to believe in magical thinking. You would also be on my list to visit and vice versa in the future.

To you both on Netflix is a two season series about surviving after catastrophe. One in LA and one in New Orleans. What you see in both of these is that the survival of the group depends not on what they are able to scrounge or build or feed but how they are able to function as a group for the good of the group. The series does not speak well of us as a people. It looks like none of these groups would survive on a permanent basis even though making it barely to 90 days. The series is called The Colonies.

[Tony]

Once a year Kathie and I go on retreat to Colorado. There is an 'in-joke' among our Americans brothers and sisters, about something to be aware of and avoid, and that is what they call."California spirituality". They say it's a 'feel good' New Age, polish your ego, substitute for real spiritual practice.

This is always something to be aware of, a modern watering down, life style change, using ancient teachings, for self betterment. A veneer covering like modern glowing white teeth!




Tony

[seantimberwolf]

As a young man, with no real ties in his life this is.....well its.....
Just what i was dreaming of recently.
My only issue is what to do over there, I'm a bust body and would need stuff to do like bushcraft, wood carving, etc
is this being approached as a getaway or a living space?

[Christine Breese]

Hi Seantimberwolf,
Yes, its a living space, not just a gateway, although some people might use it as such! As for buff things to do, there is some pretty heavy duty hiking around here if you go down to the pbottom of the mountain and back up, as well as light hiking that isnt so hard. If you want to take day or weekend trips to the various areas around Gaia Sagrada, there is some serious bushwhacking to do!

[blufire]

Christine, Thank you for your reply . . . I only have a quick minute before meeting others to harvest apples and pears for turning into butter, chutneys and other wonderful foods, but I wanted to clarify a couple quick aspect of my first post to you.

When I mentioned about there being a distinction in wealth and favoring different wealth status I WAS referring directly from your website and your Community Living Prices. The distinction and favoring comment is from those with more money are offered private rooms and showers and those with very little get to sleep on the floor. Also too with the offer to those with little money the can ‘earn’ their stay by working . . . and so again that sets up negative monetary haves and have not status within your own retreat or community . . . . those with plenty money don’t have to work while those who do not, have to work their stay. While it is good you offer this choice, it is my opinion, it perpetuates a destructive negative paradigm designed by the global ‘elite’.

Also, It would be helpful for me if you could clarify a bit more if this is only a ‘spiritual retreat’ or a true functional community. Reading quickly through your posts I see families are not welcome at this time, you grow very little of your own food and it appears your main sustainability or resources will come from financial or monetary contributions.

For me in designing forming the community here in the mountains one of my first thoughts is can we as a whole community Thrive within the framework we are forming or another way to look at it is how dependent are we as a whole on financial means, outside resources (all types) and/or how much will individuals have to work outside the community . . . at least in the first few year or how much can we totally support ourselves while maintaining balance within the community and eco systems

I may just be really confused on this whole thread . . . but Bill started this thread with the title as an opportunity to live in Ecuador that was “totally in line with Avalon’s mission” and maybe I am assuming way too much here or again just way out of line or confused.

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Christine

I wondered if you could please explain the relationship between the university and the Wisdom of the Heart Church?
I couldn't quite work it out from the website.

Thanks
Kathie

[Christine Breese]

In order to have a spiritual school, University of Metaphysical Sciences, in the USA, it is required that a church 501(c)3 be the parent company of that school. Otherwise you cannot have a spiritual school in the USA that offers spiritual degrees. Wisdom of the Heart Church is the parent organization of University of Metaphysical Sciences, University of Metaphysical Sciences is a subsidiary of the church.

[write4change]

BlueFire,

I have tried varius communities from the 1960s. I deeply admire what you are trying to do. You as a leader and a woman maybe more successful than those I have known. In the 60s all the leaders were men. None of the communities who attempted what you are survived. Of the groups on the internet who are the most successful, nonw of them function as you do.

I myself lost a million dollars plus trying to give people second chances. I have come to the conclusion that no skin in the game means it really does not matter to people whether or not you succeed. Maybe much more progress has been made since the dozen years I last tried this. The next time I am separating out a small place for myself that I can sustain so if the bigger project goes down I don't loose everything.

I was the oldest woman resident at Occupy LA, most people have no idea how to cooperatively live. So I know how much you are teaching. I would be very interested in knowing how you screen for those you include and those you don't.

When I attempt to do this again for the last time, I also will not even consider children for at least five years.

[Davidallany]

So David, what is your story? What brought you to Ecuador, and Loja in particular? Are you farming and own a place there?

Yum! Chocolate! But it won't grow well at this elevation, :( Avacado, tomato trees, figs, the angular type of papaya, those all grow well here (although we have a lot of avacado and tomato trees already). We are curious about figs! yum!

Yes, one of the cottage industries we have planned here is to make tinctures and oils with things like pine and eucalyptus in them. Did you notice that sometimes the honey has an ever so slight taste of eucalyptus in it? It's really nice!

I currently do not own a farm Christine, I would like to though.
I came to Ecuador because I was called to do so. I have spent the first 6 months volunteering in Vilca and the surrounding area. I worked in farming, constructions, cleaning, maintenance and electric wiring.It was while I was at M.T. as a volunteer that I recognized you in one of the meetings that took place over there.
I have noticed there was a different taste in the Honey, but I didn't know why.
I love figs, if you ever go to Turkey check out their gigantic and extra yummy figs.
Have you thought of growing olives? I was told that cashew and olives are a commodity in Ecuador because they are very tricky to cultivate in such climate, however some have successfully grown both plants.

[Christine Breese]

yummmmm! cashews and olives, I love those too, and those gigantic figs of Turkey sounds awesome! I don't think that olives and cashews would grow here though, as they are meant for warmer and drier climates, I think. Since we are just starting out with the gardens and everything, we probably have to go with sure bets on what is known to grow here though. We don't have much in the way of funds for experiments right now. Later we can try the experiments though! That is something I've always wanted to do, experiment with the impossible! Does anyone grow the olives or cashews (two of my favorites!) at the 8500 ft elevation in Ecuador? I know Loja is a lot lower, and it's warmer there, so maybe that's why it works there. I just have a hard time imagining those dry, hot climate things doing well here. Maybe we could pull it off in a greenhouse?

That must have been really nice to volunteer at MT. That place is really beautiful. When we were first in Ecuador looking at land, that place was for sale and we went to check it out as a possibility because there was another guy who was interested in creating community there and had the dough, but he only wanted to do that one, he wasn't interested in Cuenca, but it was way out of our budget and we didn't get a good hit on being in Vilcabamba with this spiritual community we wanted to create. It was just an energy hit we didn't understand at the time, we always follow the inner guidance, but I just loved that place, it is really beautiful! It was sooooo tempting!

Yes, I was there to do a talk back in February, I did a talk on "Working with Pre-Matter" and we did an exercise for pulling the energy out from under the minions' dark creation and reassigning the raw creation material to positive manifestations as energy support underneath physical reality. There is nothing more powerful than working with pre-matter, the place where things in physical reality manifest FROM! It was a powerful experience for everyone, were you there for that? Actually, I have yet to release the video for the talk I did on that, will do shortly, it's edited and ready to go. Forgot to upload it, ooops! I've just been so busy!

Well now you know why the honey tastes so great! It's the eucalyptus!

[Christine Breese]

I have tried varius communities from the 1960s. I deeply admire what you are trying to do. You as a leader and a woman maybe more successful than those I have known. In the 60s all the leaders were men. None of the communities who attempted what you are survived. Of the groups on the internet who are the most successful, nonw of them function as you do.

I myself lost a million dollars plus trying to give people second chances. I have come to the conclusion that no skin in the game means it really does not matter to people whether or not you succeed. Maybe much more progress has been made since the dozen years I last tried this. The next time I am separating out a small place for myself that I can sustain so if the bigger project goes down I don't loose everything.

I was the oldest woman resident at Occupy LA, most people have no idea how to cooperatively live. So I know how much you are teaching. I would be very interested in knowing how you screen for those you include and those you don't.

To Write4change: Communities have come a long way since the 60's, and there are a lot of successful intentional communities now. Almost every different kind of format that can be imagined is in existence now, being worked out, tried, and having it's own success and failures to some extent or another. A lot has been learned about intentional community over the decades and there is a way that these can work now more than ever, given humanity's new direction which is in the process of unfolding. I think the difference now is that humanity has a lot more tools to work with for conflict resolution, more knowledge about spiritual methods and techniques, and I believe that there is more support for this sort of thing happening at the energy level. In the 60's, it was a brand new idea, and with all new ideas there is a period of trial and error until the correct ways of doing things are found. I also believe that we are headed for being a different kind of human in the near future. We are all becoming humans who are more interested in getting along than we used to be. We're still pretty flawed, but hey, that's what the next thousand years or so is for, eh? Also, living in community USED to be the mode of operandus for humanity long ago, and really we are just relearning it. Kings with their peasants farming the lands were a form of community long ago, and everyone knew each other and each person had a place in the community. Small villages were not any different from what is being attempted as community today, and small towns were literally, say, 500 people all getting along in some way or another and having a community. Sooooo... trying to go back to that is something that is not new, we just have to relearn it. If you go all the way back to the tribal and caveman days, those were the first communities ever!

I would say try again with the community thing if you are drawn to that, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I don't think someone should have to put bunches of money in if that is not something they are drawn to. I hesitate at the "put in your nest egg life savings" kind of thing. I personally would just rather rent, stay as long as it works for me, and then move on when my life changes. Life just doesn't stay the same forever, and it's taking quite a chance on doing something "permanent." I could see moving from one community to another as life goes on, not because things don't work out, but just because life changes and sometimes we need a new environment just for the fun of it, or want to live in a different area on the planet for a while, so I personally would rather rent in a community for a while, and then when the winds blow a different direction I am free to roam and see where I land next.

That's why we're doing it as a month to month thing, so people can come and go as they please, more like renting in a community rather than sinking in your nest egg and then losing it if it doesn't work out. For some that's better way to go. Others want to own their plot of land, build their house, live there forever, and are pretty confident with the people who will be in the community, and that is completely valid too. Usually that is an older person who is ready to settle down and stay somewhere for good, but for the younger ones, well, life is about wandering for a while, isn't it? For those without much money, it's better to go with a smaller investment, like just renting. That's not a high risk situation. And if it's not the right situation, a person can walk away without feeling like they lost everything. I hear the heartbreak that must have been for you.

As for screening, well, we have an application form and look for red flags in the questions people might ask, like "hey, can I bring my 30 guns and keep them in my room and do target practice every Wed at noon?" or "are there gonna be lots of hot half naked hippie chicks there who are just looking for a horny hound dog like me?" teehee! Just joking! Anyway, for the most part we are going to be giving everyone a chance since it's a month to month thing, and if someone isn't working out we can afford to refund them and drive them to the bus terminal or airport if they aren't fitting in and everyone really wants them to go. I think that will be a pretty low percentage, but there is always the chance that one in a thousand that might be a little nuts, or unacceptable to the community. We reserve the right to bounce someone onward if they are out of line and disturbing other people in the community without making changes after we have asked them to change what they are doing. While tolerance is the name of the game in this new unconditional love era we are entering, we still need people to respect others, and if they don't they have to go. We'll give everyone a chance unless we see a red flag during the application process. Since this is not an "invest your life savings nest egg" kind of thing we are willing to be a bit flexible in giving everyone a chance to see if they fit in. It is mutual. We are all trying them on for size, and they are trying Gaia Sagrada on for size. It's fair to have a "let's meet and we'll see" attitude. Great if it works out, no hard feelings if it doesn't. That seems fair.

OH! Whoops! I just realized you addressed your comments to Blufire! Ooopsie! Well, anyway, I figure people will want to know this about Gaia Sagrada, sooo.... sorry I didn't see who it was addressed to! If this information is useful to anyone, it's here. I wish anyone who wants to start a community the best of luck! There will be these small communities all over the world riding out the rough times ahead, and it takes people like us starting them!

[Flash]

So David, what is your story? What brought you to Ecuador, and Loja in particular? Are you farming and own a place there?

Yum! Chocolate! But it won't grow well at this elevation, :( Avacado, tomato trees, figs, the angular type of papaya, those all grow well here (although we have a lot of avacado and tomato trees already). We are curious about figs! yum!

Yes, one of the cottage industries we have planned here is to make tinctures and oils with things like pine and eucalyptus in them. Did you notice that sometimes the honey has an ever so slight taste of eucalyptus in it? It's really nice!

I currently do not own a farm Christine, I would like to though.
I came to Ecuador because I was called to do so. I have spent the first 6 months volunteering in Vilca and the surrounding area. I worked in farming, constructions, cleaning, maintenance and electric wiring.It was while I was at M.T. as a volunteer that I recognized you in one of the meetings that took place over there.
I have noticed there was a different taste in the Honey, but I didn't know why.
I love figs, if you ever go to Turkey check out their gigantic and extra yummy figs.
Have you thought of growing olives? I was told that cashew and olives are a commodity in Ecuador because they are very tricky to cultivate in such climate, however some have successfully grown both plants.

Oh Gosh don't I remember those figs. I kept eating and eating and Turkish friends were telling me to stop because it could cause diarrhea with too much of it. Guess what, I did not stop, it was so good, I did not care for the rest. Olives were great too, just not as much as the figs. Heirloom (original) turkish tomatoes are also extraordinary. They turned to the tennis ball tasting one we have in America right now, but in 95 it was still good.

[write4change]

Christine, that was an excellent post when you have done so many and so much service. I did learn a lot from it and I think it is helpful to those who are considering all this. Like I said I intend to program giving it a whirl. First, I need to get a passport letting mine expire in 05. I will be coming to learn from you before I take the next intentional community I try to legal status. I would also like to visit blue flame.

You perception about small towns is somewhat true. Driving across the US on backroads most of the towns were from 300 to 3000 people. I had reserched several of them before I went. Who the leaders are is reflected in the entire town's attitude. Almost all of these towns no matter how small had at least one mansion in them compared to the rest. One I was interested in I went into the bank to see about a loan and the experience was so negative....I simply left.

Another town I was welcomed and regarded as clean credit. I had my credit report with me among other legal papers. My superficial observations are the small towns that are stagnant or dying very slowly are very rigid about everything. I have seen small towns of less than a quarter mile on the downtown drag with three churches. The towns that are stable and properus have a much stronger tolerance for diversity.

The town I chose because of its affoardability is about 3,200. People get along well and there is a culture of manners and respect. Calling someone a boy would not be acceptable at all. On the other hand, the state road down the middle of town--one side is black and one side is white. Part of the low price for realestate is that many whites will not live in a 50% black town period. I think we have a far harder time in the US being cooperative that just about any other part of the world. I do not think it is coincidence that a high gringo impact on Vilacambra has resulted in much resentment among the indigenous. Also many comments here of those that have experienced it note the level of distain in some forms.

And if I can't get there, I am going to enjoy exploring your courses and looking out of your eyes at a different part of the world. Hopefully, we will be building different kinds of permaculture in a parallel way. Thank you so much for putting so much opportunity of different thinking on Avalon.

[Mu2143]

In order to have a spiritual school, University of Metaphysical Sciences, in the USA, it is required that a church 501(c)3 be the parent company of that school. Otherwise you cannot have a spiritual school in the USA that offers spiritual degrees. Wisdom of the Heart Church is the parent organization of University of Metaphysical Sciences, University of Metaphysical Sciences is a subsidiary of the church.

The reason for this is then the PTB can't control it ,so 501(c)3 is not a spiritual school.
Also your spirit goes to a spiritual school in the spiritual realm and second it is not controlled in the phsyical by money.(Not many are in this school BTW)

[Davidallany]

yummmmm! cashews and olives, I love those too, and those gigantic figs of Turkey sounds awesome! I don't think that olives and cashews would grow here though, as they are meant for warmer and drier climates, I think. Since we are just starting out with the gardens and everything, we probably have to go with sure bets on what is known to grow here though. We don't have much in the way of funds for experiments right now. Later we can try the experiments though! That is something I've always wanted to do, experiment with the impossible! Does anyone grow the olives or cashews (two of my favorites!) at the 8500 ft elevation in Ecuador? I know Loja is a lot lower, and it's warmer there, so maybe that's why it works there. I just have a hard time imagining those dry, hot climate things doing well here. Maybe we could pull it off in a greenhouse?

That must have been really nice to volunteer at MT. That place is really beautiful. When we were first in Ecuador looking at land, that place was for sale and we went to check it out as a possibility because there was another guy who was interested in creating community there and had the dough, but he only wanted to do that one, he wasn't interested in Cuenca, but it was way out of our budget and we didn't get a good hit on being in Vilcabamba with this spiritual community we wanted to create. It was just an energy hit we didn't understand at the time, we always follow the inner guidance, but I just loved that place, it is really beautiful! It was sooooo tempting!

Yes, I was there to do a talk back in February, I did a talk on "Working with Pre-Matter" and we did an exercise for pulling the energy out from under the minions' dark creation and reassigning the raw creation material to positive manifestations as energy support underneath physical reality. There is nothing more powerful than working with pre-matter, the place where things in physical reality manifest FROM! It was a powerful experience for everyone, were you there for that? Actually, I have yet to release the video for the talk I did on that, will do shortly, it's edited and ready to go. Forgot to upload it, ooops! I've just been so busy!

Well now you know why the honey tastes so great! It's the eucalyptus!

Green house is the way to go in Ecuador when it comes to Olives and Cashew, Christine. I know of no other way.
I do not know about working with pre-matter yet. I have recently been practicing Jana Yoga. It's a powerful yoga.

[AriG]

BlueFire,


When I attempt to do this again for the last time, I also will not even consider children for at least five years.

Smart move imo, given that introducing children introduces liability and the attention of "authorities" who could determine that you have less than pure motivations ( i.e., David Koresh, etc). Children would be an excuse for them to invade your retreat. " They " want your children in their schools, being indoctrinated into their way of thinking.

[AriG]

Christine,

I have questions regarding Ecuador.

* If one has vehicles licensed in the US, how difficult is it to obtain titles for those vehicles?
* Is there a quarantine process involved regarding bringing animals into the country? ( horses, goats, dogs)
* Are there any cooperative farming intentional communities, preferably run by locals?
* How difficult is it to obtain a business license or is it even necessary?
* Has the "gringo" community done anything to reach out to the locals in the spirit of cooperative living? ( sponsor events, assist with harvest, etc)

Thank you in advance for your advice!

Ari

[christian]

Are there any cooperative farming intentional communities, preferably run by locals?

Some intentional communities in Ecuador and worldwide can be found on:


ic.org (http://directory.ic.org/iclist/geo.php)
workaway.info (www.workaway.info)
helpx.net (www.helpx.net)

[Christine Breese]

Christine,
I have questions regarding Ecuador.
* If one has vehicles licensed in the US, how difficult is it to obtain titles for those vehicles?
* Is there a quarantine process involved regarding bringing animals into the country? ( horses, goats, dogs)
* Are there any cooperative farming intentional communities, preferably run by locals?
* How difficult is it to obtain a business license or is it even necessary?
* Has the "gringo" community done anything to reach out to the locals in the spirit of cooperative living? ( sponsor events, assist with harvest, etc)
Ari

Can't bring a vehicle into Ecuador less than 6 months old, and it can't be more than 6 months old by the time it actually lands on the ground here from boat, so basically, it has to be a new car, AND you have to pay 48% import tax on it. It's just not reasonably priced to bring a car, can't do it unless you buy it new off the lot and pretty much immediately stick it on a boat. They want you to buy a car here, basically.

We brought cats on the plane with us, no quarantine, wasn't too complicated, it worked out fine. I don't know about other animals, check with the consulate in your country.

I don't know about any farms, coops, etc run by locals, and if so, not sure how open they would be, unless you speak fluent Spanish.

Registering a biz is necessary if you plan to make money, takes a few months and a LOT of paperwork, running around, etc, need a lawyer, and you have to be a resident to register a biz, so you have to attain residency.

I know WE have reached out a lot to our local area, I don't know about others. I believe there are plenty who do at their local levels but if they aren't trying to get people from the states or overseas to be involved, which most aren't since they are just a couple or a family with a small place and some neighbors they want to help, or just reach thieir local areas, I'm not sure you can connect with them unless you are actually here on the ground meeting people yourself at the coffee shops and seeing who is who. You pretty much have to be here to connect with that, I think. Honestly, I just don't have time to try to find out what everyone else is doing, we are pretty busy trying to get our things going and working with our own local area. The links Christian gave in the previous post sounds like a good place to start. Also, try the woofing sites, that might be a good place to find something besides what we're doing. We will be having an organic farm as well, starting in Jan.

[Christine Breese]

Hey, check this out, I just found this link! Other people starting communities in Ecuador, maybe one of these is your thing instead. Most of these are in Vilcabamba, and I know a few of these to be dreams that never really got off the ground yet and the listing is a few years old, but still, worth checking out! http://directory.ic.org/intentional_communities_Ecuador

Also, if you go to that Intentional Communities site, they have a big directory with communities all over the world listed. When I was young and this directory was in its infant stages, I used this book to find communities to do work exchange at since I was a have-not all my life and that was the only way I could be at any of these. I saw what worked firsthand and what didn't work in these communities. The Intentional Communities team that started this directory nowadays do seminars and stuff like that on how to build and start a community, they even have instruction guides they sell, I think.

here's some of their conferences http://fic.ic.org/conferences-events/ and if you do a google search, you'll probably find lots of things like this and workshops on how to successfully create or join community. Here's the events listings on their site with workshops on community http://communities.ic.org/events/

[AriG]

Wow. 48% import tax. Can you drive in on vacation in a personal vehicle?

[Christine Breese]

AriG: I'm not sure if you can drive a car in here or not and just be on vacation. I think you can. I asked someone today and they said they read somewhere that a person can come with a car, but they MUST leave with it when their tourist visa is up in 3 months, or however long you get extensions for. That means that even if the car is totally junked or totalled, was in an accident, whatever, it still has to be taken out of here when you leave. You can't leave without the car, from what I understand and it's even stamped in your passport that you have a car in the country. I'm just relaying that, none of it is anything I know as fact, just heresay. You'll have to check on that. Let us all know what you find out!

Blufire said: . . . those with plenty money don’t have to work while those who do not, have to work their stay. While it is good you offer this choice, it is my opinion, it perpetuates a destructive negative paradigm designed by the global ‘elite’.

For me in designing forming the community here in the mountains one of my first thoughts is can we as a whole community Thrive within the framework we are forming or another way to look at it is how dependent are we as a whole on financial means, outside resources (all types) and/or how much will individuals have to work outside the community . . . at least in the first few year or how much can we totally support ourselves while maintaining balance within the community and eco systems

I may just be really confused on this whole thread . . . but Bill started this thread with the title as an opportunity to live in Ecuador that was “totally in line with Avalon’s mission” and maybe I am assuming way too much here or again just way out of line or confused.

I had to let this sit for a couple days, as this comment hurt my heart when I worked so hard to make this possible for everyone, particularly the have-nots (and dirt cheap for the haves with no risk to their nest eggs!). I sacrificed what little I have instead of taking care of only myself, (and I could have had a much easier time of it for the past three years if I just took care of myself!) then to have this beautiful creation that straddles the gap between the old and new paradigm labeled in someone’s opinion, “it perpetuates a destructive negative paradigm designed by the global ‘elite’”

Ouch! Girlfriend! What a punch to the heart! Ooooh. I had to put some ice on that one!

In the next paragraph you contradict yourself and say you need “haves” with jobs or resources like life savings outside of your community bringing in money who will invest in your business idea that eventually (maybe) everyone can live off of after few years of work and investing to build something on your land with their money (a long shot in a down economy during a paradigm shift). And where do the have-nots fit into your plan? You didn’t mention them at all. The have-nots will need to have a job outside your community and become haves, right? At least for the first few years until you get this huge successful business off the ground that is making enough money to support an entire community, right? That’s a tall order!

I definitely had to take a pause and get deep into my heart to answer this one, so here goes in the most compassionate way possible! I hope you read this with the love it is delivered with. This is actually in support of your dream and I want to see you succeed, but you haven’t thought this out thoroughly enough. You are just beginning to think about this, so please do follow all possible resources you can find on the internet about how to avoid common pitfalls that people make who are trying to start a community.

I’m sure there are lots of people on this post thinking about community in some way or another, or at least curious, so I want to help steer you into situations that are healthy for your wallet and your mind, how to identify a community that has sustainable energy or that which is a pipe dream, and how to go about this in a financially balanced and logical way. There is a certain financial sanity needed in this era of change where we have to straddle two paradigms, the old run by money and the new run by… well, we have to yet see how that is going to work out and invent it as a species wide project!

The Cold Hard Facts: Money

Humanity isn’t out of the old paradigm yet, must have money to pay for things like electric, water, gas, insurance, maintenance, food… the list goes on. Until the new paradigm is solidly in place, perhaps in a few decades, generations, or even millennia, then there will no longer be haves and have-nots or disparity in their levels of housing.

Money still has to be part of the equation on earth. PG&E isn’t accepting happy thoughts and good intentions for electric bills! New paradigms are not born overnight. This is a process. That means for now we have to contend with the money system, and that includes the disparity between haves and have-nots, while we reach for a utopian reality at the same time. It is the act of literally straddling two paradigms.

Is It Fair To Have-Nots To Do Work Exchange?

A person doing work exchange (have-not) is earning money at a retreat center while they are at the retreat center. Those who are paying (haves), they got the money before they came to the retreat center. So what’s the difference? It all equals the same thing. One way or another everyone has to carry their own financial weight while we still live in an old paradigm. Some have money to carry their weight with, and others have work trade to carry their weight with. Either way, it equals the same thing.

Just Rent, No Risk, Freedom to Come and Go, Better Solution For Some

What better solution than to have a spiritual community where everyone just pays cheap rent for a spiritual experience? That is basically what this is, and you don’t even have to pay a security deposit! What a deal!

To add even more benefit, people can come and go as they please. If life takes you in a different direction, you don’t have to go through the rigamarole of trying to get your money back out of a community or simply losing it. No one is financially locked in, ever. Settling permanently into a community is valid for some people, buying the land, investing, building a house, but that is usually for middle aged or older people who are ready to settle down. For those in their younger years, life can change directions in an instant, right? This is a chance for those people to experience community too. They can enjoy it for how long it works for them and move on when life takes them in the next direction.

A lot of growth would happen while a person is at Gaia Sagrada so life is going to change a lot for anyone who comes here. While here, a person will have spiritual inspiration, with lots of time to reflect within, and not go broke doing it. I have to say I see this place as a sanctuary where people of ordinary means can rest from the rat race for a while if they have a small savings they are trying to stretch out over time. Yes, a person will need to have a little bit, even if it’s not a lot. This isn’t a homeless shelter and we are not able to carry other people financially. They have to carry their weight. If any billionaires want to step up as sponsors for some totally have-nots, feel free to let me know, though!

Utopian Fantasies, Can They Work In This Reality Right Now?

Utopian fantasies are not implementable in this reality at this time. BRIDGING THE GAP between the old and new paradigm is at the crux of the dilemma, of course, and compromise between what is reality and what we want in the future has to be made. Maybe someday that utopian fantasy of everyone being financially equal will come true, but it’s not here yet. If anyone knows how to bypass all of the steps between one paradigm to another, completely eradicating the money situation between the haves and have-nots and solve this world problem overnight, please share! We would love to know!

Humanity’s Great Awakening: Just the Beginning

Humanity’s Great Awakening is only the tip of the iceberg. Removing the minions from places of power by realizing what they are doing, firing them by not going along with their plans, that is only the first step. The REAL work comes after that. It’s one thing to awaken, but then you have to get the coffee, roll up the shirt sleeves, and do some serious work to change a reality. To attain a utopian reality is going to take decades, generations, maybe even a millennium or two. Humanity is getting a “get out of jail free” card pretty soon, but we don’t get an overnight “humanity lives happily ever after” card. It ain’t gonna be THAT easy! We wish!

Conclusion

As for being in alignment with the mission at Avalon, yes, we are of the same energy. I hope you can see that. I’m sure everyone can understand it is better than nothing to offer housing for every budget so everyone can participate, haves and have-nots included. It’s the best any community can do in this death and birth process moving through time right now, when the old paradigm still rules and the new paradigm isn’t born yet.

Gotta pay the bills while reaching for the stars!

[Christine Breese]

Blufire said: It would be helpful for me if you could clarify a bit more if this is only a ‘spiritual retreat’ or a true functional community.

Gaia Sagrada opens January 20, 2013 and yes, it is both a retreat and a functional community. It is already functioning with 20 working Ecuadorians, both men and women, who are all family with us. Lunch is made daily, everyone eats together and then they play soccer for a half an hour. Each workday is fun! We joke around and come up with creative solutions to everything. Being a retreat center and allowing people to come for a week or two for that particular week’s spiritual topic, this is part of the functioning of the community. The people who live here for a month or a few months or even more, they are taking more time.

Blufire said: Reading quickly through your posts I see families are not welcome at this time, you grow very little of your own food and

We didn’t say children aren’t welcome; We said we aren’t ready yet! That’s a tall order to create 1–12K school for kids, daycare, for toddlers, completely kid proof all the land so they don’t drown in reservoirs, fall off cliffs, make sure everything is perfect, find something to keep them busy and hire people to do that if there aren’t qualified teachers in the community, all while the adults go off and do their spiritual search, yikes!

One thing at a time my friend! We’re just starting! We have to take it slow and let this thing unfold. Most communities don’t get to the point of having kids in community until it’s been going for a few years. Whoever said 5 years before doing the kid thing at a community, that’s about right. People need to develop their group systems before adding that difficult and complicated organizational task.

Communities are built in steps. Small steps. That’s what it takes. One thing at a time. You don’t just come out of the starting gate on your first day with everything in place. Gardens are the same thing, they take time to develop, years actually.

Blufire said: it appears your main sustainability or resources will come from financial or monetary contributions.

We’re in the old paradigm where money rules. You yourself said you would need outside money to run a community, everyone would have to have a job to be at your center. You already understand that money comes from outside of these communities when they first begin. It takes years for communities to become full fledged business entities producing money, product and income for its members.

Thanks Blufire!

Blufire has brought up a really important subject indeed, a deeper subject about haves and have-nots, how we are all tired of it, the structures of communities and the disparity between those who have money and those who do not, and it got me writing… Thanks for the writing catalyst, Blufire! You were my inspiration for the articles I’m working on right now, So You Wanna Be In A Community? and another called Bridging the Paradigm Shift Gap. I like to write about challenging spiritual issues and dilemmas! Thanx for the jab in the writing arm! I’ll let you guys know when I post them if you want. Also, these are all fair issues to bring up and I hope I addressed each one of your concerns.

[Camilo]

It sounds like a great place to live amongst like minded people. I may drop by in the near future to get a taste of it for a few weeks.

[Bill Ryan]

------

Bumping this thread for new members to see. :)

[blufire]

Since I brought this thread up today in this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65982-Crazy-China--Forty-People-Broke-into-the-4th-Branch-of-Our-Community-Without-Any-Lawful-Documents-

It would be wonderful if we could get an update on how this community and its endeavor are doing.

I truly hope you are thriving and the community is growing and finding new paths for future communities to follow.

[Chris Gilbert]

Awesome source of inspiration, thanks Bill! :)

[Bill Ryan]

Since I brought this thread up today in this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65982-Crazy-China--Forty-People-Broke-into-the-4th-Branch-of-Our-Community-Without-Any-Lawful-Documents-

It would be wonderful if we could get an update on how this community and its endeavor are doing.

I truly hope you are thriving and the community is growing and finding new paths for future communities to follow.


This is Christine Breese (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?8086-Christine-Breese)'s project. She's a friend, and I see her occasionally. (She is very busy!)

I can see she's not logged into the forum for a couple of months. I'll be happy to drop her a line and ask her to summarize an update on this thread.

[yuhui]

Since I brought this thread up today in this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65982-Crazy-China--Forty-People-Broke-into-the-4th-Branch-of-Our-Community-Without-Any-Lawful-Documents-

It would be wonderful if we could get an update on how this community and its endeavor are doing.

I truly hope you are thriving and the community is growing and finding new paths for future communities to follow.


This is Christine Breese (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?8086-Christine-Breese)'s project. She's a friend, and I see her occasionally. (She is very busy!)

I can see she's not logged into the forum for a couple of months. I'll be happy to drop her a line and ask her to summarize an update on this thread.


really looking forward......

[Mu2143]

.......................

[GoodETxSG]

There is an ongoing "Call" (Like a Beacon) that is felt deep in the soul and cellular structures of many of us right now to migrate to a tiny country called Ecuador. WHY??? I do not fully understand yet. I bet the Ecuadorian Politicians and People are a little perplexed themselves (Though many must appreciate the extra $, tho some may feel invaded and fear they may go the way of the Native Americans)...

But something big is going on down there. I have been watching with much interest. Thank you for the Thread Bill & Christen.