Was Bill Cooper on to Jordan Maxwell before anyone else?

[truth4me]

Let me say this. I liked Jordan Maxwell and his work but with the firestorm surrounding him and his work I'm starting to have my doubts about Russell Pine/Jordan Maxwell. Here's a video about Cooper telling us about Maxwell's work yet as always YOU be the judge. Also note there are 2 other parts that I didn't post

for what ever reason it's not letting me post using the youtube link above and I'm sorry for that.

[Earth Angel]

um .... you didn't post any parts ;)

[ThePythonicCow]

Let me say this. I liked Jordan Maxwell and his work but with the firestorm surrounding him and his work I'm starting to have my doubts about Russell Pine/Jordan Maxwell. Here's a video about Cooper telling us about Maxwell's work yet as always YOU be the judge. Also note there are 2 other parts that I didn't post

for what ever reason it's not letting me post using the youtube link above and I'm sorry for that.

Are you referring to these videos:

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The description provided for the third of these Youtube videos provides what might be a reasonable summary of these three videos:



While listening to William (Bill) Coopers famous Mystery Babylon series I noticed that Bill was reading something, like he normally did, but this time he didnt say what it was that he was reading. I googled it and found out it was Jordan Maxwells book That Old Time Religion
After I made that connection Cooper did all the debunking.

This presentation will show the following:

1.) Cooper makes it very clear that he believes Maxwell to be spreading the mystery religion

2.) It will also show that Maxwell is NOT showing us what they believe, but that he is telling us (in essence) to believe what they believe.

3.) Cooper clearly implicates Zechariah Sitchin in relation to Maxwells work.

4.) It will explain Coopers position, which has been misrepresented by people that failed to realize that he would read Masonic literature often in order to expose it to the public, he clearly seems to think Maxwells book is Masonic as well.

[Kristin]

For the sake of balance: Here are a few comments on Bill Cooper from various people in the alternative community. I've never met the man personally, nor have I personally met Jordan Maxwell. But it's interesting to glean an understanding perhaps from many who have. This is simply for information sake and I can not account as to the credibility or subjectiveness of these statements.

From the Heart,
Kristin

BUDD Hopkins:

On November 10, 2001, I was in Mobile, Alabama, speaking at a "Journeys Beyond" conference. Five days earlier, sheriff's deputies, attempting to serve a warrant, were shot at by conspiricist William Cooper who gravely wounded one of them, deputy Robert Martinez. The other deputies returned fire and Cooper was killed.

For those unfamiliar with his activities, William Cooper was once a divisive, almost unavoidable presence at UFO conferences and on the radio and the Internet. His wild and woolly stories were completely unbelievable, though a loyal band of followers clung to his every word.

I wondered at the time of Cooper's demise how long it would take before a myth of martyrdom would arise among his fellow conspiricists. I knew that this alcoholic, emotionally disturbed man would eventually be enthroned in the far-right's Valhalla of "government victims" - innocent, peace-loving martyrs like Timothy McVeigh, James Earl Ray, David Koresh and a strange assortment of white supremacists, psychopathic homophobes and killers of abortion providers.

Well, I saw signs of Cooper's elevation five days after his death, when I was attending that conference in Mobile, Alabama. A confused young man approached me and referred to the government's "murder" of William Cooper. In the telling, the rural sheriff's deputies who tried to serve their warrant soon after metamorphosized into a sinister government SWAT team. The mythmaking machinery of paranoid rumor and Internet misinformation was on the way.

What sort of man was the late William Cooper? Shortly after his death, he was described by his friend Bill Hamilton as "an inveterate liar," and a man who "had a real love for booze and firearms." Hamilton recalled that Cooper once invited him to go to a gun show with him to "buy a type of gun that would blow a hole in an engine block. I asked why I would want to do a silly thing like that. His reply was that I should protect myself against the government." Even more significant was Hamilton's delicately worded statement that Cooper "had a difficult time telling truth from fantasy." A perfect description of the conspiricists' central affliction.



Bruce maccabee:

Some of you will recall William Milton Cooper who came onto the UFO scene about 15 years ago and soon made himself one of the most unscrupulous conspiracy theorists in the UFO field.

After several years he was being invited to give lectures for considerable pay. He talked about the UFO/Kennedy/you-name-it conspiracy. Anyone who didn't agree with him... even when he changed his story... which he did (as it grew and grew)... was_against_ him and part of the Conspiracy! He put it all into his book, 'Behold A Pale Horse'... which more accurately should be entitled 'Behind The Pale Horse'.
http://brumac.8k.com/



Mac Tonnies:

Before his violent death in November, 2001, lecturer and self-proclaimed military insider William Cooper helped popularize a number of malignant myths centered on the notion of secret U.S. contact with aliens. Cooper believed extraterrestrials were involved in a quiet takeover of the world, and claimed to have seen briefing documents and photos of aliens while serving in the military. He famously attacked noted UFO personalities such as Whitley Strieber, Linda Moulton Howe and Stanton Friedman as being CIA operatives bent on keeping the truth from public knowledge. Later in his career, Cooper's world view became increasingly oppressive and paranoid.
http://mactonnies.com/



Greg Sandow:

I saw Cooper speak at Hollywood High School in Los Angeles in 1989.

Two highlights. One of them was his claim that aliens influenced the US to intervene militarily on the Communist side during the Russian revolution. There are two small problems with that. First, the US intervened on the anti-communist side (to be precise, this was in the civil war that followed the revolution). Second, Cooper himself said at another point in his talk that the aliens arrived here in 1947. The Russian revolution and the succeeding civil war were much earlier than that (1918 to 1921, I believe).

Second highlight: During the question period, someone rose from the audience to announce that the government was spying on the lecture! He pointed to video cameras set up onstage. Cooper -- for once seeming utterly baffled -- replied that those were his own cameras. A case of conspiracy thinking getting too crazy even for Cooper. Cooper got an ovation when he said the aliens were responsible for gun control. It was quite an evening.
http://www.gregsandow.com/ufo/



John Valez:

There is a very real difference between honest and intelligent dissent and the lunacy (certifiable) that Cooper was responsible for spreading around. Let me share a little story with you, if I may, just to illustrate my point.

About four years ago Budd Hopkins, Greg Sandow and myself drove out to New Jersey to speak at an annual conference that is held there. It's a two + hour drive. On the way Budd played a tape for us that was taken from his phone messaging machine. It contained a series of long distance telephone messages that old 'Wild Bill' Cooper had left for Budd.

Alfred, the _threats_ and the language he used to issue those threats was enough to send Budd to the police to seek advice as to how to handle the situation. Cooper was a certified looney. And, as has been borne out by his shooting of this poor law enforcement officer (in the head - twice!) a very dangerous nut as well. I have to tell you that just sitting in the car listening to his voice as he ranted and raved at Budd sent chills up my spine. It was spooky to me even as a third party, witnessing the depth of his insanity.
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/team/johnv.html



JEROME CLARK:

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:17:37 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:18:12 -0500
Subject: Re: William Cooper Killed In SWAT Raid - Clark

Sadly true. Cooper was the scariest man I've ever encountered in my long years in this field, representing the sickest end of the anti- gummint paranoia which so afflicted American politics over the past two decades, and which now, happily, is receding.

When I pointed out in an article that some of Cooper's UFO conspiracy theories had their roots in anti-Semitic literature, he took to threatening me from various public forums. His followers were frightening, too. Ten years ago, while lecturing in Sydney, Australia, on the Dark Side fantasies for which Cooper was largely responsible, I had my speech interrupted by an enraged audience member who started shouting at me. It was his view, as I understood it, that I was a CIA member; after all, only a CIA member would charge that Cooper's stuff was 100%
horseradish.

I'm sorry that when he left this world, Cooper may have taken a deputy sheriff with him. I hope the man recovers and is able to resume his life without ever meeting a Cooper equivalent again. Cooper, a true sociopath, did damage to just about anybody who crossed his path. He will not be missed. Jerome Clark is the former editor of the UFO magazine Fate and former vice-president and current board member of the J. Allen Hyneck Center for UFO Studies
http://www.cufos.org/org.html



Bill Hamilton:

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: 8 Nov 2001 08:39:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:33:25 -0500
Subject: Re: William Cooper Dies In Gunfight - Hamilton

I met Bill Cooper through John Lear in 1988. I booked him to speak at a UFO conference that K. Duran and myself sponsored in the high desert of 29 Palms Calif years ago. This was one of his first public talks.

After Cooper told his story he embarrassed me by asking the audience to donate money for his rent. Later, I confronted him in the coffee shop about some of his outlandish claims like the Pleidians landing at Edwards AFB which he denied a month later. That is when I started to hear him change his story, even contradicting earlier statements he made. This became a normal part of his routine.

He was often soused and loved firearms. He advised me to go to a gun show and purchase a 'an engine block-busting gun' and I asked him why I should do a silly thing like that and he said 'to defend yourself against the government'. With pugilistic obstinacy he got into a fist fight with Eric Beckjord at a San Diego UFO event. Things went downhill from there. Both of them should have been under care. He threatened former friend John Lear while drinking by waving a gun in the air and said he could shoot him. He later accused Lear of being agent "Condor" (Moore's aviary). A real nut case! He not only accused Budd but many others of disinformation and lies. He fabricated contents of MJ-12 (Operation Majority) documents that looked plagiarized from Bill Moore's and Bill English's publications. He kept changing and expanding the contents and accusing anyone who disagreed.

I have the dubious distinction of being one of the people he slighted in his book 'Behold a Pale Horse'. Most of this was also plagiarized material from conspiracy sources. Then he had enough with alien conspiracies and declared there were no aliens (evil or otherwise), but plenty of evil government people. That is when he entrenched himself in upstate Arizona to carry out his war against the government as a so-called 'patriot'. May he rest in peace, Bill Hamilton
http://www.ufoinfo.com/lecturers/hamilton.shtml



Richard Hall:

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:47:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:26:42 -0500
Subject: Re: William Cooper Killed In SWAT Raid - Hall

I strongly second these comments and won't bother to reply to Nick's reply to me apparently embracing a very strange epistemology that would have us hang on the every word of Charles Manson, Squeaky Fromme, William Cooper, and other mentally challenged individuals instead of listening to sane, rational, well-informed people.

Having spent a number of years working for the American Psychological Association, I can suggest a few reasonable answers. Particularly when it comes to UFOs, 'we' are gullible and tend to believe what we want to believe. 'We' in the U.S. have become very paranoid about our Government (not without some legitimate reasons, but way overboard).

When a paranoid, megalomaniac like Cooper taps into 'our' paranoia, he becomes a sort of prophet to 'us'. Also as has been amply demonstrated, 'we' don't understand science very well and so fail to sift and sort through 'information' carefully. In addition, the world is full of people looking for quick answers who reason simplistically (if at all) and are born 'followers' looking for a charismatic leader, hence cults arise (e.g., CSETI) often masked in noble-sounding causes or rhetoric.

Antidote?

Clear thinking, careful data analysis, exposure of fraud and antisocial/paranoid behavior in individuals.

[Hervé]

Fair enough...

Any of the above individuals that got shot dead on their door steps by the "Serve and Protect" crew?

[Hervé]

Bud Hopkins:


I gather the following will make sense to those of us who have followed this thread, from Trumann Cash's introduction to his "Programming of a Planet" and "Eye of Ra" books:

Alien Agenda, the Matrix Revealed
I am an independent ET contact researcher and not connected in any way to the CIA, ONI, NSA, or any other "government" agency or "government" contractor. In the interests of truth I have decided to blow the whistle on "government" disinformation regarding the abduction phenomenon.

I am one of many abductees who have seen military personnel and Grays working together in a deep underground military base (DUMB). You can read about my two abduction experiences in the chapter "Journey to Discovery" in the EYE OF RA. In the mid-90s Budd Hopkins was on the Art Bell Show and openly debunked abductees who talked about our experiences in these military/alien bases. He referred to us as "paranoids" and he also used the words "conspiracy theories" to describe our reports of the military/alien connection. These terms have often been used vis-a-vis CIA-sponsored debunking.

Budd Hopkins' affiliation with the CIA was well documented by Dr. Stephen Kurzweil, who was ruthlessly attacked by Hopkins. Anyone can read these documents, including sworn affidavits, in the book BEHOLD A PALE HORSE. Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs are colleagues who worked together on the abduction phenomenon.

Budd Hopkins' colleague David Jacobs appears to be continuing the debunking and denial that there is a military/alien connection. In his book THE THREAT Jacobs states on page 187: "All this, in conjunction with the long-standing and wide-spread suspicion of a "coverup" by the American government, has led many abductees and researchers to conclude that the government is secretly conspiring with the aliens ... .In fact, there is no evidence that the American government, or any foreign military, is involved with abducting people."

This statement flies in the face of the firsthand "evidence" of many abductees who have experienced abductions by the military or have experienced abductions in deep underground military/alien bases where American military personnel are standing right next to or are working with Grays and other aliens in the same room. David Jacobs debunks the military/alien connection on pages 187 and 188 of his book.

As an abductee/researcher I do not understand why Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs would debunk the military/alien connection when so many abductees have gone public with their experiences. Were Hopkins and Jacobs threatened by the CIA or military or other "covert ops" people to keep their mouths shut about it? Are they knowingly participating in the cover-up? Were they programmed with MKUltra-style mind control not to talk about it? One can only speculate.

[...]

Yours in the Awakening,
Truman L. Cash


http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash.zip The Programming of a Planet

http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash2.zip Eye of Ra

[Kristin]

THANK YOU!!!
I think that this is exactly what we need to be looking at here... if you care to debunk anyone, there will be plenty of people available to credit or discredit the information. We perhaps should spend less time "Looking to discredit or credit" and spend more time looking at evidence period.

We are called the "Alternative" community. The more we spend time creating issues that divide us instead of creating solutions and looking strictly at fact based evidence, the more discredited we become as a community as a whole.

It was my intention to post those many views to show two specific things: First that we can create a positive and a negative in any situation. It is easy to base our thoughts on desires, biased theories stated by another, and disinformation that is fed to us as a whole in abundance. Secondly, that if we look into research and do our own research we illicit the ability to have a growing background that enables us to reach our own conclusions based in fact finding alone.

It is not about "he said she said", it is about what fact supported evidence is available, what our true personal experiences are, and how we need to discuss and not "promote" theories. Theories are just that, theories. These things should be discussed and openly hashed through from an open heart with the ability to seek truth without bias.

When we look at it this way, we can look at Jordan Maxwells work simply for what it is. We can look at Bill Cooper's work simply for what it is. We can move onto more interesting and revealing discussions.

From the Heart,
Kristin

[jackovesk]

THANK YOU!!!
I think that this is exactly what we need to be looking at here... if you care to debunk anyone, there will be plenty of people available to credit or discredit the information. We perhaps should spend less time "Looking to discredit or credit" and spend more time looking at evidence period.

We are called the "Alternative" community. The more we spend time creating issues that divide us instead of creating solutions and looking strictly at fact based evidence, the more discredited we become as a community as a whole.

It was my intention to post those many views to show two specific things: First that we can create a positive and a negative in any situation. It is easy to base our thoughts on desires, biased theories stated by another, and disinformation that is fed to us as a whole in abundance. Secondly, that if we look into research and do our own research we illicit the ability to have a growing background that enables us to reach our own conclusions based in fact finding alone.

It is not about "he said she said", it is about what fact supported evidence is available, what our true personal experiences are, and how we need to discuss and not "promote" theories. Theories are just that, theories. These things should be discussed and openly hashed through from an open heart with the ability to seek truth without bias.

When we look at it this way, we can look at Jordan Maxwells work simply for what it is. We can look at Bill Cooper's work simply for what it is. We can move onto more interesting and revealing discussions.

From the Heart,
Kristin


I think that this is exactly what we need to be looking at here... if you care to debunk anyone, there will be plenty of people available to credit or discredit the information. We perhaps should spend less time "Looking to discredit or credit" and spend more time looking at evidence period.

BINGO..!!! Couldn't have said it better myself Kristin...:thumb:

Why people choose to sight innuendo instead of evidence shows me just 1 thing...


Utter Laziness...:faint:

[Carmody]

It circles back to the mind that does not have the capacities to discern, to follow logical paths, in long form, shall we say.

A smaller circle of logic than the data/evidential grouping.

When the data is bigger than the logic capacity of the given mind, so that it cannot hold the thing in some form of flow fitting and form of position in a chain of logic... we get the primal responses of the body in charge of forming the response.

This is the emotional considerations of the origins of thought, the murmurings that filter through the mind and eventually become internally vocalized thoughts.

Simple answers (yes/no, black/white, run from/eat it, kill it/screw it..etc)....are always sought for, under those conditions, under those deep internal threats to safety and life -as a meat bag thingy like a human avatar will encounter.

Internal stressing, internal design, internal flow...demands, without respite, in very heartbeat... first and foremost...... that the fight or flight question be answered (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkrOVoJzkSo). This is a thing that underlies EVERY thought that attempts to form ---in the given human avatar.

for example, when reading this post, when things are comfortable, and the logic can flow, the 'reason' can flow, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2WJkqW8QvY) we don't recognize that it is there, reading every bit of data that comes in. But it is there, it is not blocking things, as it's part of the equation is not in a paramount position ----At the given time.....but it is reading and filtering, it never sleeps.