Confession of an internet shill

[fifi]

This is an interesting confession of an internet shill, that I think we need to be aware of.

Source: http://the2012scenario.com/2012/10/i-was-a-paid-internet-shill/

Quote
I am writing here to come out of the closet as a paid shill. For a little over six months, I was paid to spread disinformation and argue political points on the Internet. This site, ATS, was NOT one that I was assigned to post on, although other people in the same organization were paid to be here, and I assume they still walk among you. But more on this later.

I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore. If this confession triggers some kind of retribution against me, so be it. Part of being a real man in this world is having real values that you stand up for, no matter what the consequences.

My story begins in early 2011. I had been out of work for almost a year after losing my last job in tech support. Increasingly desperate and despondent, I jumped at the chance when a former co-worker called me up and said she had a possible lead for me. “It is an unusual job, and one that requires secrecy. But the pay is good. And I know you are a good writer, so its something you are suited for.” (Writing has always been a hobby for me).

She gave me only a phone-number and an address, in one of the seedier parts of San Francisco, where I live. intrigued, I asked her for the company’s URL and some more info. She laughed. “They don’t have a website. Or even a name. You’ll see. Just tell them I referred you.” Yes, it sounded suspicious, but long-term joblessness breeds desperation, and desperation has a funny way of overlooking the suspicious when it comes to putting food on the table.

The next day, I arrived at the address – the third floor in a crumbling building. The appearance of the place did not inspire confidence. After walking down a long, filthy linoleum-covered corridor lit by dimly-flickering halogen, I came to the entrance of the office itself: a crudely battered metal door with a sign that said “United Amalgamated Industries, Inc.”

I later learned that this “company” changed its name almost monthly, always using bland names like that which gave no strong impression of what the company actually does. Not too hopeful, I went inside. The interior was equally shabby. There were a few long tables with folding chairs, at which about a dozen people were tapping away on old, beat-up computers. There were no decorations or ornaments of any type: not even the standard-issue office fica trees or plastic ferns. What a dump. Well, beggars can’t be choosers.

The manager, a balding man in his late forties, rose from the only stand-alone desk in the room and came forward with an easy smile. “You must be Chris. Yvette [my ex-co-worker] told me you’d be coming.” [Not our real names]. “Welcome. Let me tell you a little about what we do.” No interview, nothing. I later learned they took people based solely on referral, and that the people making the referrals, like my ex-colleague Yvette, were trained to pick out candidates based on several factors including ability to keep one’s mouth shut, basic writing skills, and desperation for work.

We sat down at his desk and he began by asking me a few questions about myself and my background, including my political views (which were basically non-existent). Then he began to explain the job. “We work on influencing people’s opinions here,” is how he described it. The company’s clients paid them to post on Internet message boards and popular chartrooms, as well as in gaming forums and social networks like Facebook and MySpace. Who were these clients? “Oh, various people,” he said vaguely. “Sometimes private companies, sometimes political groups.”

Satisfied that my political views were not strong, he said I would be assigned to political work. “The best people for this type of job are people like you, without strong views,” he said with a laugh. “It might seem counterintuitive, but actually we’ve found that to be the case.” Well, OK. Fine. As long as it comes with a steady paycheck, I’d believe whatever they wanted me to believe, as the guy in Ghostbusters said.

After discussing pay (which was much better than I’d hoped) and a few other details, he then went over the need for absolute privacy and secrecy. “You can’t tell anyone what we do here. Not your wife, not your dog.” (I have neither, as it happens.) “We’ll give you a cover story and even a phone number and a fake website you can use. You will have to tell people you are a consultant. Since your background is in tech support, that will be your cover job. Is this going to be a problem for you?” I assured him it would not. “Well, OK. Shall we get started?”

“Right now?” I asked, a bit taken aback.

“No time like the present!” he said with a hearty laugh.

The rest of the day was taken up with training. Another staff member, a no-nonsense woman in her thirties, was to be my trainer, and training would only last two days. “You seem like a bright guy, you’ll get the hang of it pretty fast, I think,” she said. And indeed, the job was easier than I’d imagined. My task was simple: I would be assigned to four different websites, with the goal of entering certain discussions and promoting a certain view. I learned later that some of the personnel were assigned to internet message boards (like me), while others worked on Facebook or chatrooms. It seems these three types of media each have different strategy for shilling, and each shill concentrates on one of the three in particular.

My task? “To support Israel and counter anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic posters.” Fine with me. I had no opinions one way or another about Israel, and who likes anti-Semites and Nazis? Not me, anyway. But I didn’t know too much about the topic. “That’s OK,” she said. “You’ll pick it up as you go along. For the most part, at first, you will be doing what we call “meme-patrol.” This is pretty easy. Later if you show promise, we’ll train you for more complex arguments, where more in-depth knowledge is necessary.”

She handed me two binders with sheets enclosed in limp plastic. The first was labeled simply “Israel” in magic-marker on the cover, and it had two sections .The first section contained basic background info on the topic. I would have to read and memorize some of this, as time went on. It had internet links for further reading, essays and talking points, and excerpts from some history books. The second, and larger, section was called “Strat” (short for “strategy”) with long lists of “dialogue pairs.” These were specific responses to specific postings.

If a poster wrote something close to “X,” we were supposed to respond with something close to “Y.” “You have to mix it up a bit, though,” said my trainer. “Otherwise it gets too obvious. Learn to use a thesaurus.” This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation down with sexual innuendo, links to pornography, or other such things. “Sometimes we have to fight dirty,” or trainer told us. “Our opponents don’t hesitate to, so we can’t either.”

The second binder was smaller, and it contained information specific to the web sites I would be assigned to. The sites I would work were: Godlike Productions, Lunatic Outpost, CNN news, Yahoo News, and a handful of smaller sites that rotated depending on need. As stated, I was NOT assigned to work ATS (although others in my group were), which is part of the reason I am posting this here, rather than elsewhere. I wanted to post this on Godlike Productions at first, but they have banned me from even viewing that site for some reason (perhaps they are onto me?). But if somebody connected with this site can get the message to them, I think they should know about it, because that was the site I spent a good 70% of my time working on.

The site-specific info in the second binder included a brief history each site, including recent flame-wars, as well as info on what to avoid on each site so as not to get banned. It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters. Although I didn’t work for ATS, I did see they had a lot of info on your so-called “WATS” posters here (the ones with gold borders around their edges). “Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.”

Each popular poster was classified as “hostile,” “friendly,” or “indifferent” to my goal. We were supposed to cultivate friendship with the friendly posters as well as the mods (basically, by brownnosing and sucking up), and there were even notes on strategies for dealing with specific hostile posters. The info was pretty detailed, but not perfect in every case. “If you can convert one of the hostile posters from the enemy side to our side, you get a nice bonus. But this doesn’t happen too often, sadly. So mostly you’ll be attacking them and trying to smear them.”

At first, like I said, my job was “meme-patrol.” This was pretty simple and repetitive; it involved countering memes and introducing new memes, and didn’t demand much in-depth knowledge of the subject. Mostly just repetitive posting based on the dialogue pairs in the “Strat” section of the first binder. A lot of my job was de-railing and spamming threads that didn’t go our way, or making accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Sometimes I had to simply lie and claim a poster said something or did something “in another thread” they really hadn’t said or done I felt bad about this…but in the end I felt worse about the possibility of losing the first job I’d been able to get since losing my “real” job.

The funny thing was, although I started the job with no strong opinions or political views, after a few weeks of this I became very emotionally wedded to the pro-Israel ideas I was pushing. There must be some psychological factor at work…a good salesman learns to honestly love the products he’s selling, I guess. It wasn’t long before my responses became fiery and passionate, and I began to learn more about the topic on my own. “This is a good sign,” my trainer told me. “It means you are ready for the next step: complex debate.”

The “complex debate” part of the job involved a fair amount of additional training, including memorizing more specific information about the specific posters (friendly and hostile) I’d be sparring with. Here, too, there were scripts and suggested lines of argument, but we were given more freedom. There were a lot of details to this more advanced stage of the job – everything from how to select the right avatar to how to use “demotivationals” (humorous images with black borders that one finds floating around the web). Even the proper use of images of cats was discussed. Sometimes we used faked or photo-shopped images or doctored news reports (something else that bothered me).

I was also given the job of tying to find new recruits, people “like me” who had the personality type, ability to keep a secret, basic writing/thinking skills, and desperation necessary to sign on a shill. I was less successful at this part of the job, though, and I couldn’t find another in the time I was there.

After a while of doing this, I started to feel bad. Not because of the views I was pushing (as I said, I was first apolitical, then pro-Israel), but because of the dishonesty involved. If my arguments were so correct, I wondered, why did we have to do this in the first place? Shouldn’t truth propagate itself naturally, rather than through, well…propaganda? And who was behind this whole operation, anyway? Who was signing my paychecks? The stress of lying to my parents and friends about being a “consultant” was also getting to me. Finally, I said enough was enough. I quit in September 2011. Since then I’ve been working a series of unglamorous temp office jobs for lower pay. But at least I’m not making my living lying and heckling people who come online to express their views and exercise freedom of speech.

A few days ago I happened to be in the same neighborhood and on a whim thought I’d check out the old office. It turns out the operation is gone, having moved on. This, too, I understood, is part of their strategy: Don’t stay in the same place for too long, don’t keep the same name too long, move on after half a year or so. Keeping a low profile, finding new employees through word of mouth: All this is part of the shill way of life. But it is a deceptive way of life, and no matter how noble the goals (I remain pro-Israel, by the way), these sleazy means cannot be justified by the end.

This is my confession. I haven’t made up my mind yet about whether I want to talk more about this, so if I don’t respond to this thread, don’t be angry. But I think you should know: Shills exist. They are real. They walk among you, and they pay special attention to your popular gold-bordered WATS posters. You should be aware of this. What you choose to do with this awareness is up to you.

Yours,

ExShill
Unquote

[christian]

Begs the question, are there people like that on Avalon?

Well, there's the application process. But a sophisticated troll would now how to get through that of course. If there are some on the forum now, I hope they have a hard time at least. Sometimes people and their behaviour do stick out, which leads to permanent bans in some cases. Doesn't mean they're all paid shills of course. Given that this mail is genuine, it shows that those people have a soul as well and are not all completly mind controlled.

Anyways, this doesn't spur me to go on a zealous witchhunt now, the rotten apples show up early enough by themselves.

[Chester]

Begs the question, are there people like that on Avalon?

Well, there's the application process. But a sophisticated troll would now how to get through that of course. If there are some on the forum now, I hope they have a hard time at least. Sometimes people and their behaviour do stick out, which leads to permanent bans in some cases. Doesn't mean they're all paid shills of course. Given that this mail is genuine, it shows that those people have a soul as well and are not all completly mind controlled.

Anyways, this doesn't spur me to go on a zealous witchhunt now, the rotten apples show up early enough by themselves.

I personally believe a shill would not last very long on Avalon. The reason I am here is because of the integrity I found in the posts when I scoped out Avalon a year ago. I think a shill would get exposed fast or that they would end up on ignore lists (I never use the feature but glad you have it). This is the only forum I belong to and read. Just my thoughts. Chester

[Flash]

I personnally believe some shills have lasted very long on this forum already, in the past, and most probably now, and that some non shills have been thrown out because the moderators thought they were shills (intelligent but difficult behavior for example). It is most probably very hard sometimes to differentiate between genuine and fake when fake is intelligently done.

I am not certain at all they would readily be discovered.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

They "stand out". I honestly think the true skeptics just wouldn't be bothered with anything conspiracy related, because they already have their belief/s, and are happy with them. The paid skeptic is on every thread, always emulating a sense of superiority and using "scientifically proven" to the extreme. I used to fight them all the time, and was banned on Another Terrible Site, but now I realize that is pointless. Now I thank them for the input and agree to disagree, if they continue to bug you on your thread, well that seems to be a good indicator of their true intent. That site BTW along with the others like it. I am positive are CIA/NSA controlled. Avalon, to my understanding has a good firewall to filter out these types, although I have had a scrap or two here, I don't believe those other members are paid shills.

Charles and Drake and *add flavor of the week* , to my belief, were a different type of shill, a more advanced version.

That's my thoughts on the subject, big hello to the potential new shills that are ready to go :P

[Flash]

. Charles and Drake and *add flavor of the week* , to my belief, were a different type of shill, a more advanced version.

That's my thoughts on the subject, big hello to the potential new shills that are ready to go :P

That was my point too.

[eni-al]

Seems like a well written story, lots of others at ATS also seem to think the same. They are probably trying to highlight the issue, or after attention, or just having fun, but it just reads like a a bit of fiction to me, rather than something with sincerity and getting to the point.

[ThePythonicCow]

I personnally believe some shills have lasted very long on this forum already, in the past, and most probably now, and that some non shills have been thrown out because the moderators thought they were shills.
Offhand, I don't recall anyone being banned primarily because we thought they were a shill, in the sense discussed in the opening post of this thread. Sometimes we might have thought that was a possibility, but we can't really know. Perhaps we noticed that someone was acting "like a shill", but we would seldom know if that's intentional or accidental, nor does it much matter

The one's most likely to get banned are those who harm or degrade the discussion, including those who too often and aggressively poke other people's buttons or insult others.

We are dealing with a complex array of subjects, obscured by complex layers of lies, disinformation, distractions, confusions, and false hopes. More or less all of the active contributors here, myself included, will, sooner or later, put substantial energy into supporting a view that will turn out, in the light of perfect hindsight, to have been wrong. The less that happens, the better, but such is inescapable.

So it's all about encouraging healthy discussion and cooperation, pursuing one's own learning and sharing that with others, and supporting each other in the various ways that we are each able.

[Flash]

I have seen videos, I think here on Avalon, of Israeli groups, in Israel, doing exactly that thoughout the net. This is definitely not fiction.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOlIwRV724


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhlsegIE9a4

[Strat]

The second, and larger, section was called “Strat” (short for “strategy”) with long lists of “dialogue pairs.” These were specific responses to specific postings.




Begs the question, are there people like that on Avalon?


Will the real Strat please stand up? We're gonna have a problem here...

[sdv]

Scary. We really are living in challenging times.

How does Israel get the money to do this? I thought it was a country that stuggled to survive and depended on major aid from USA.

By the way, has anyone noticed that MSM headlines in USA tend to highlight the use of Romney's name? Is this connected to the pro-Israeli lobby or am I being paranoid?

:focus:

[Ilie Pandia]

What was most interesting for me in this story is not that shills exists and that they most like are on every popular forum, but how this ex-shill evolved from "no strong" views to "very strong views" pro the information he was promoting :) (despite the fact the he was sometimes using fabricated evidence to make a point).

The ones that used to pay him have won a big victory: they now have a permanent employee that they don't even need to pay any longer. He will continue to honestly be passionate about the information he was pushing. (I am not debating here if his view is right or wrong, the exact same story can be told by an opposing "shill").

If I were him and got to the point where I become aware that my views have changed, I'd try looking deeply and exclusively into "the other point of view" and see how my view changes then... some useful conclusions and learning may come of that.

Now time to look into my own deeply held and passionate beliefs :biggrin:

[delfine]

Interesting and important testimony. Thanks for sharing..

[Mike Gorman]

I do not know for sure if such people are in the paid employ of government groups-seems likely, after all to ignore the 'Net' as being
the principal medium of social exchange in today's world would be moronic. However, this testimony seems more like a film script,
or a short story to me-of course I could be wrong-have been known to be wrong here and there....seems a trifle too elaborate and playing into the expectations
of how such a 'Shill' would operate-too stereotypical? Be on your Guard for opinion correction chaps!

[write4change]

It is interesting to me that there is good money in it. Reading this confession I can definitely see how this works on DailyKos and how much it would be worth to someone to do it. Netroot sites have raised millions and have enough influence that big people start posting there regularly. We had one for over a year before it blew up big time. I have to admit I was taken in. I needed to read this because one of the reasons I was taken in was the fact it was illogical to me that someone would spend so much time doing this. I never really thought about it as a valuable job. I wonder if I will ever get over being naive about the web.

[ulli]

It is interesting to me that there is good money in it. Reading this confession I can definitely see how this works on DailyKos and how much it would be worth to someone to do it. Netroot sites have raised millions and have enough influence that big people start posting there regularly. We had one for over a year before it blew up big time. I have to admit I was taken in. I needed to read this because one of the reasons I was taken in was the fact it was illogical to me that someone would spend so much time doing this. I never really thought about it as a valuable job. I wonder if I will ever get over being naive about the web.

I have been aware of paid shills for a number of years and decided that a moderated forum is the best way to go if you want to express your message. Still, there can never be guarantees. States of naiveté and cynicism have alternated throughout my life and I have learnt that a more balanced state does not happen accidentally, it has to be attained through hard inner work. Feeling naive is still my preferred way of life, it helps with creativity. I just have to keep in mind that there are consequences to all my states and actions. I believe this goes for all of us.

[gooty64]

If you can take a step back from this discussion and look at how far into madness we have fallen then you see my perspective on this.

This is well beyond beginning to look like hell on earth to me.

"Oh Gooty, be sure to tie your shoes and brush up on your discernment skills before your leave for school today".

Sheer Madness!

[mountain_jim]

From my observations at various forums and the comment sections on main sites, the most likely subject areas for shills are Israel/Zionist politics and AMA verses alternative health subjects, such as vaccine safety, Monsanto vs healthy foods, Homeland Security issues such as airport radiation scanners, etc.

Mossad involvement in 9/11 discussions also seem to attract shill-like posters in my experience.

[Chester]

What was most interesting for me in this story is not that shills exists and that they most like are on every popular forum, but how this ex-shill evolved from "no strong" views to "very strong views" pro the information he was promoting :) (despite the fact the he was sometimes using fabricated evidence to make a point).

The ones that used to pay him have won a big victory: they now have a permanent employee that they don't even need to pay any longer. He will continue to honestly be passionate about the information he was pushing. (I am not debating here if his view is right or wrong, the exact same story can be told by an opposing "shill").

If I were him and got to the point where I become aware that my views have changed, I'd try looking deeply and exclusively into "the other point of view" and see how my view changes then... some useful conclusions and learning may come of that.

Now time to look into my own deeply held and passionate beliefs :biggrin:

Bingo - I avoided making this point because I feared no one would agree... hahahah "fear" - how foolish I was more concerned with what others think of me. Thanks Ilie

[Chester]

It is interesting to me that there is good money in it. Reading this confession I can definitely see how this works on DailyKos and how much it would be worth to someone to do it. Netroot sites have raised millions and have enough influence that big people start posting there regularly. We had one for over a year before it blew up big time. I have to admit I was taken in. I needed to read this because one of the reasons I was taken in was the fact it was illogical to me that someone would spend so much time doing this. I never really thought about it as a valuable job. I wonder if I will ever get over being naive about the web.

I have been aware of paid shills for a number of years and decided that a moderated forum is the best way to go if you want to express your message. Still, there can never be guarantees. States of naiveté and cynicism have alternated throughout my life and I have learnt that a more balanced state does not happen accidentally, it has to be attained through hard inner work. Feeling naive is still my preferred way of life, it helps with creativity. I just have to keep in mind that there are consequences to all my states and actions. I believe this goes for all of us.

I know that in my case, I had to be moderated three times here at Avalon (the first time was self moderation and a week's vacation, the second time was comments I received from others and the last time was a specific comment by a single poster - all served the purpose of moderation).

I had the choice to either leave voluntarily, not change and do something that gets me kicked out or adjust somehow so that I don't get banned. I, so far, have chosen the latter of the three. But there are two sub options within this third option. I can "make myself" adjust or I can get a clue about why I needed to be moderated. If I can experience the latter of these two perhaps something within me would naturally adjust as my desires from which I create my intentions will have changed. This happens when I allow my ego to contract.

In realizing I am a quantum being, I realized I can never be destroyed. So I began to burn holes through the universes. I then realized that eventually all the universes would be nothing but holes and I came upon my last fear. That I would be alone. It was then I backed off of my reckless psycopathy and began to explore how I can be in relationship with other quantum beings as well as thought forms (which are limited).

I have chosen to be in relationship. And strangely I have not needed moderation in over 5 days. I am very happy now that I have made this choice at the core level of my being.

Yes, I agree with moderation. I am glad to know I have those in my life I allow to moderate me when I require moderation.

Enjoy the Day - Love to All - Chester

[778 neighbour of some guy]

AMA verses alternative health subjects, such as vaccine safety, Monsanto vs healthy foods

Congratulations, you have won the jackpot imo.

[sigma6]

Scary. We really are living in challenging times.
How does Israel get the money to do this? I thought it was a country that stuggled to survive and depended on major aid from USA.
By the way, has anyone noticed that MSM headlines in USA tend to highlight the use of Romney's name? Is this connected to the pro-Israeli lobby or am I being paranoid?
:focus:

I think you're right on the money, it's an exercise in observing the obvious... as to how Israel can afford it, I knew an alcoholic that had a difficult time quitting, the reason; because there was this 'patsy' in his life, someone who felt so sorry for him that she would 'buy' him a bottle whenever he whined and begged and pleaded, or even intimidated or threatened, anything that got him what he wanted... people get addicted to that kind of abuse over others, until it destroys them, of course anyone standing back from this picture can see the obvious irony... but it seems to be Shakespearean in its universality, exposing one of our human weaknesses... egocentrism.

Standing back and seeing the big picture apparently is a difficult skill, look at all the turmoil in the Middle East, faction fighting faction, according to Fulford, they are trying to stir up China against Japan over some stupid Islands that no one even lives on, Africa is torn apart with War Lords fighting and killing each with purchased arms... all because people are so caught up in the tunnel vision of their individual egos, without a fundamental set of values of a larger world vision (since that phrase and idea has been hi-jacked by a NWO) no longer guided by principles of universal love and peace (because the same evil manipulators have taken over the 'institution' of spiritual beliefs via the Roman originated Vatican State) So what are people left with?

...as Nick Rockefeller said to Aaron Russo, "what do you care, just look after your family..." the essence of Feudalism and Mafia, the perfect set up for an Overlord takeover, the perfect stepping point for a Machiavellian control implementation, maybe there is something to the principle "to love your enemies as yourself"... as hard as that must be for people to properly conceptualize, to understand with their hearts... is it a false teaching or is it we who are so far 'out of sorts'?

Anyhow I am grateful this "shill" has come forward, but I need some time to digest, contemplate and look more closely at what is being said here... so on the face of it, well done for coming forward, looking forward to hearing more of what you know about this 'shady organization' that recruited you... more dirt please...

[Sidney]

I believe there were many shills present during the charles/atticus fiasco. Currently I think there are a few. Of course I am not going to name any but I have a pretty strong hunch on a couple. Use your gut instincts when the same person repeatedly debunks (tries anyway) certain topics. You will see a pattern. One I have noticed has been on these boards for a long time.
Also I found, I got a little suspicious a while back, there were 3 or 4 screen names I didn't recognize, and they all happen to be debunking the same things, looked and there join dates were all very close in proximity (within 1 or 2 months the same year). I have been here snce the beginnng of the old avalon/camelot forum, and after a while its really not hard to spot. These folk do their homework in the beginning to fit in and be all chummy with us, to gain trust. then they subtly slime their way to trying to convince the other person that - whatever the consensus is, isn't. Like I said, its subtle, but there are patterns with shills.

[sigma6]

What was most interesting for me in this story is not that shills exists and that they most like are on every popular forum, but how this ex-shill evolved from "no strong" views to "very strong views" pro the information he was promoting :) (despite the fact the he was sometimes using fabricated evidence to make a point).

The ones that used to pay him have won a big victory: they now have a permanent employee that they don't even need to pay any longer. He will continue to honestly be passionate about the information he was pushing. (I am not debating here if his view is right or wrong, the exact same story can be told by an opposing "shill").

If I were him and got to the point where I become aware that my views have changed, I'd try looking deeply and exclusively into "the other point of view" and see how my view changes then... some useful conclusions and learning may come of that.

Now time to look into my own deeply held and passionate beliefs :biggrin:

Good point and it is a variation of "cognitive dissonance" ie. the idea that the greater 'investment' we have in something, the harder it is to 'cut our losses short' in the event we find out it is false, incompatible, or even self sabotaging... For example, in position trading/investing, (stock, commodities, forex) that is also one of the most difficult things to learn (or unlearn), identifying and acknowledging immediately when a position is wrong or has taken an unexpected turn and getting out as soon as you are aware of this, and thereby minimizing your losses. It is a known fact people are universally TERRIBLE at this. It has to be learned, entrained. Very real phenomena, very scary to see in oneself and others...

[Cartomancer]

Are we all so malleable that all it takes is a smart well spoken person to influence your opinion? Didn't we all get over that once we realized that the mainstream media was a sham and that they do nothing but lie and try to shape your opinion? Did we expect the internet would be any different? Because someone knows how to write a complete coherent paragraph now they are under suspicion of being a 'dis-info' agent? I think this is kind of paranoid but I guess if television is capable of brainwashing you someone with a strong opinion either way is too.

To me as a writer the above story was written as fiction. It has all the hallmarks of building tension and plot development. There's your disintelpro. All it takes is one "I was a teenage counter intelligence wag on the internet" story to make us all afraid that we are being watched and influenced by outside forces. C'mon people. Grow a pair. Basically why should we even care?

I would love to be given a job like the one above. I could then enact my evil counter-counter disintelpro scheme to rule the world using nothing but my PC. (insert maniacal laugh moohoohoohahahaha).

[Bill Ryan]

How does Israel get the money to do this? I thought it was a country that struggled to survive and depended on major aid from USA.


The budget would probably be less than $500,000 to keep a well-trained team of people operating 24/7. They need laptops, an internet connection, a paid-up proxy provider, and the privacy of their own bedrooms. For a nation state heavily invested in their military, that's a drop in the ocean.

[ulli]

Are we all so malleable that all it takes is a smart well spoken person to influence your opinion? Didn't we all get over that once we realized that the mainstream media was a sham and that they do nothing but lie and try to shape your opinion? Did we expect the internet would be any different? Because someone knows how to write a complete coherent paragraph now they are under suspicion of being a 'dis-info' agent? I think this is kind of paranoid but I guess if television is capable of brainwashing you someone with a strong opinion either was is too. On the other hand I am hard pressed to remember a time when my opinion was seriously fashioned from anything I read here or on any other place on the internet.

I would love to be given a job like the one above. I could then enact my evil counter-counter disintelpro scheme to rule the world using nothing but my PC. (insert maniacal laugh moohoohoohahahaha).

...you may be onto something there ;)
But if one sees the sequence of events from their perspective...
.meme creation...then reaching millions...via media and Internet...
those millions then have to follow procedure when election time comes...
the outcome of which then determines the amount of money flowing from congress into the military complex...and there you have it...the government with the biggest guns gets the prize.
Unless there are some who are not paid shills, and who keep on pumping a different meme...such as 'even if those Iranians have the craziest ideas and the craziest religion on earth, and want to rule the world and put all of our women behind veils, do they really deserve to be massacred by a nuclear strike just because those guys in Israel have become overly paranoid?

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Frankly, I couldn´t care less about internet shills.

A bunch random folks stating their extreme opinions (legitimate or not) doesn´t change my life and the way I think at all. At least not against my will and my sense of logics.

Of course, for the weak minded, who constructs their personalities mostly out of other people´s opinions, those shills might be a problem, but not a bigger problem than the propagandist media that bombards us everywhere we go.

That´s how internet forums work; a bunch of people sharing their opinions, which thankfully, are very diverse and, in some cases, genuinely outstanding. As always, if one doesn´t have the skill to discern between this torrential amount of information and opinions, then it´s better to stay away from it.

Personally, I´m much more worried about scam artists and fake gurus who spread all sorts of crazy concepts in the internet. These are much more influential than anonymous shills; They sell DVDs, books, t-shirts, bumper stickers, attend to conferences and manage to gather a lot of followers.

During my whole time in PA, I was suspicious just once about a shill, which was a guy defending the Rothschild family. Anyway, I´m not even sure about it; maybe he was just another brainwashed folk defending one of the many distorted points of views about this messy puzzle that we call life. This guy went straight to my ignore list (he´s the only one who resides there, by the way).

This is a somewhat complex subject, since some folks quickly point anyone who goes against their opinions as shills. A very similar behavior to what happens in dictatorship regimes, where freedom of expression is not allowed and you can´t speak what you want.

Even Bill was pointed as shill, actor and everything else, by people with extremely limited and unbalanced intellectual minds.

Cheers,

Raf.

[East Sun]

I read the OP' story before, word for word, one one of these sites that are on the same page as this one. It might have been here on PA. I did not read all of it the first time so I can only speak for the first part but it is word for word. And that was probably years ago.

It's nice to be reminded so as to be on guard.

[CdnSirian]

I've started reading http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/ because I've so recently become aware of the "memes". (One can only keep up with so much...). This has led me to many other blogs writing about different aspects of cultural control, mostly bad news. I don't steep myself in it, but it has altered how I interpret many things, yet another tweak in the awareness of conditioning.

I also felt the "confession" has a short story quality, though it doesn't matter whether it's real of not. Always good to review the topic periodically.

[ThePythonicCow]

I read the OP' story before, word for word, one one of these sites that are on the same page as this one. It might have been here on PA. I did not read all of it the first time so I can only speak for the first part but it is word for word. And that was probably years ago.
So far as I know, this story first appeared at Above Top Secret (ATS) on April 3, 2012. If you follow the http://the2012scenario.com/2012/10/i-was-a-paid-internet-shill/ link given at the top of the opening post of this thread, it will also reference that ATS article.

Our forum member miqeel posted the following thread referencing this ATS article on April 4, 2012: Paid Internet Shill's confession - found on ATS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43330-Paid-Internet-Shill-s-confession-found-on-ATS).

[East Sun]

Thanks Paul,
I read a lot of posts on different sites and loose track of when or where. But that one I recognized clearly. Helpful to keep in mind.
I've learned to not get too upset by shill type responses, just be myself and talk my truth, listen to all decide for myself.

[ThePythonicCow]

I read a lot of posts on different sites and loose track of when or where.
I lose track too; no problem.

I just happen to have the time and skills to search well, especially this forum.

:)

[Mark]

This guy would have never been sent here to Avalon. Flash and WZN make great points. Its the skill of Admin in making the choice about who to add as well as level of background knowledge necessary to participate here to the extent a paid shill would have to in order to be successful. On a site like Avalon the strategy would have to be long-term and slightly more subtle than the tactics listed here, whixh would require extraordinary dedication on the part of the shill to a cause he or she knows -through exposure to the very material they were hired to discredit and debunk - is false. And that role could only be fulfilled by a very motivated and single-minded psychopath.

On the other hand, the text does read like a con as eni-al and galaxyhorse state. If that is possible, the only con would be to write it in the style of a mlm ad so people would think its a con when elements of it do indeed contain truth. Which is actually a valid strategy to use against a clutch of conspiracy theorists.

[rgray222]

When you stop and think about this even for a moment this is exactly what the mainstream media does, they have their agendas and they feed that agenda to the public day in and day out.
CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, Washington Post, NY times, LA Times, Chicago Trib, Sixty Minutes, Fox News to name just a a few, have strong views on subjects that they promote to a worldwide audience 7 days a week, 365 days a year

1. They have all selected their political candidate for president, every network and newspaper is strongly supporting Obama while Fox supports Romney
2. They all have pro or anti Israeli views which they spew at us everyday
3. They all have their strong views about Iran which we hear/read/watch about everyday
5. China
6. Free Trade
7. Education
8. War and the military
9. Pro welfare or anti welfare
10. Pro large government or anti large government
These are only a few of the items that they present with their own spin. Oh yes, they may present some opposing views from time to time and even have a strongly worded op-ed piece that goes against their core agendas but make no mistake they present only the news they want you to know about and that news has their own strong spin. Most of them also have their own forums/boards with moderators that have exactly the same strong view points, these people are nothing more than paid shills that work for a company that proudly displays its name and logo on the side of million dollar buildings

Take this original post and remove the word "shill" and replace it with the mainstream media and that is by far a much bigger story. The ironic part of this story is that the shill thought he was making good money doing this, that is almost laughable. The mainstream media is making millions upon millions doing exactly the same thing but on a much larger scale!

The story about the shill is meaningless, the effect that they have on people is not even a drop in the ocean, the bigger crime is being perpetrated around the globe by the mainstream media 7 days a week 365 days a year. The media is nothing more than a shill for their political candidate, political agenda and economic agenda!

If anyone does not believe the media has an strong slanted agenda just tune into CNN (or any network station) for 30 minutes then switch over to Fox for 30 minutes. They are not even attempting to hide their bias as we get so close to the November election. If your eyes are not open they will be!

[Wind]

Very interesting. Did anyone else think that a revelation like this might be a fear tactic of used by them? I mean the ones who are spreading fear and disinfo.

It could cause distrust in the alternative community if people start to distrust each other, in case that someone might be a shill. Of course everyone including me knows that there are paid shills. But they are nothing more than just bumps in the road.

[Flash]

It is interesting to me that there is good money in it. Reading this confession I can definitely see how this works on DailyKos and how much it would be worth to someone to do it. Netroot sites have raised millions and have enough influence that big people start posting there regularly. We had one for over a year before it blew up big time. I have to admit I was taken in. I needed to read this because one of the reasons I was taken in was the fact it was illogical to me that someone would spend so much time doing this. I never really thought about it as a valuable job. I wonder if I will ever get over being naive about the web.

I have been aware of paid shills for a number of years and decided that a moderated forum is the best way to go if you want to express your message. Still, there can never be guarantees. States of naiveté and cynicism have alternated throughout my life and I have learnt that a more balanced state does not happen accidentally, it has to be attained through hard inner work. Feeling naive is still my preferred way of life, it helps with creativity. I just have to keep in mind that there are consequences to all my states and actions. I believe this goes for all of us.

I know that in my case, I had to be moderated three times here at Avalon (the first time was self moderation and a week's vacation, the second time was comments I received from others and the last time was a specific comment by a single poster - all served the purpose of moderation).

I had the choice to either leave voluntarily, not change and do something that gets me kicked out or adjust somehow so that I don't get banned. I, so far, have chosen the latter of the three. But there are two sub options within this third option. I can "make myself" adjust or I can get a clue about why I needed to be moderated. If I can experience the latter of these two perhaps something within me would naturally adjust as my desires from which I create my intentions will have changed. This happens when I allow my ego to contract.

In realizing I am a quantum being, I realized I can never be destroyed. So I began to burn holes through the universes. I then realized that eventually all the universes would be nothing but holes and I came upon my last fear. That I would be alone. It was then I backed off of my reckless psycopathy and began to explore how I can be in relationship with other quantum beings as well as thought forms (which are limited).

I have chosen to be in relationship. And strangely I have not needed moderation in over 5 days. I am very happy now that I have made this choice at the core level of my being.

Yes, I agree with moderation. I am glad to know I have those in my life I allow to moderate me when I require moderation.

Enjoy the Day - Love to All - Chester

What a tough cookie, 3 moderations!!...... it gives me the chilll, lol:p

you are so far from any potential description of a shill, that it is ludicrous to even have the thought pass by in your case. I would moderate you anytime Justoneman, it would be an honor.

[Tangri]

What was most interesting for me in this story is not that shills exists and that they most like are on every popular forum, but how this ex-shill evolved from "no strong" views to "very strong views" pro the information he was promoting :) (despite the fact the he was sometimes using fabricated evidence to make a point).

The ones that used to pay him have won a big victory: they now have a permanent employee that they don't even need to pay any longer. He will continue to honestly be passionate about the information he was pushing. (I am not debating here if his view is right or wrong, the exact same story can be told by an opposing "shill").

If I were him and got to the point where I become aware that my views have changed, I'd try looking deeply and exclusively into "the other point of view" and see how my view changes then... some useful conclusions and learning may come of that.

Now time to look into my own deeply held and passionate beliefs :biggrin:

There are a lot of people out of there with financial desperation most of them have no opinion, no soul, no hope. They are very good candidate for zombie fans to employ this kind of business. Only good outcome of this business is, may give a purpose or meaning or wake up call for those employees. This business may or may not create its own monster. If it may, it will be more dangerous than target mass, toward business's clients.
If I were one of the wakening shills Before I quite , I would gather a lot of info , names in my portfolio and use my referral power to recruited potential rebels to replace in shill force.
It can be a good boomerang.
Love ( sorry no Peace in this post)

[ThePythonicCow]

If I were one of the wakening shills Before I quit, I would gather a lot of info , names in my portfolio and use my referral power to recruited potential rebels to replace in shill force.

My guess is that this is a fairly low risk for those running these shills.

Most folks don't awaken that fast ... they'd be having doubts and questions, visible to those around them, for a period of time first.

[Flash]

Just google

Forum posting jobs

You will see how many there is, some paid 4$ per post, other paid differently. And all part time.

[Tangri]

If I were one of the wakening shills Before I quit, I would gather a lot of info , names in my portfolio and use my referral power to recruited potential rebels to replace in shill force.

My guess is that this is a fairly low risk for those running these shills.

Most folks don't awaken that fast ... they'd be having doubts and questions, visible to those around them, for a period of time first.

You are right, It will be painful movements before wakening up which gives the alarm for employer . But would you not hope even 1 or 2 quick wakens?

[ThePythonicCow]

But would you not hope even 1 or 2 quick wakens?
Yup :)

[Flash]

My guess is that this is a fairly low risk for those running these shills.

Most folks don't awaken that fast ... they'd be having doubts and questions, visible to those around them, for a period of time first.

i have seen lots of fraud on telephone calls, and most people getting caught never woke up. Imagine now the internet where your only detection mechanism is written words, no vocal, no viiew of the other. A blind and deaf and paraplegic (no touch) trying to detect fraud or talented shills. Most people do not wake up when being manipulated, it takes a good while and one needs to know that to look for (the behaviors that one may encounter). Good manipulators are adept at adapting and slowing doing their jobs.

[Tangri]

i have seen lots of fraud on telephone calls, and most people getting caught never woke up. Imagine now the internet where your only detection mechanism is written words, no vocal, no viiew of the other. A blind and deaf and paraplegic (no touch) trying to detect fraud or talented shills. Most people do not wake up when being manipulated, it takes a good while and one needs to know that to look for (the behaviors that one may encounter). Good manipulators are adept at adapting and slowing doing their jobs.

Dear Flash,
I don't think those call-center zombies work till their retirement.
They do that bulling jobs for certain time. Then they fed up and quite, but backup forces is huge and almost unlimited.

[Flash]

Dear Flash,
I don't think those call-center zombies work till their retirement.
They do that bulling jobs for certain time. Then they fed up and quite, but backup forces is huge and almost unlimited.

I have been working in the related fields since 1987. I have seen all aspects of it, at all levels. Believe me, some are good, so good in fact that a month ago. one almost got me for a credit card telephone fraud. I am not kidding, here the expert almost getting caught. A regular folk woulld have seen only smoke and candies, believe it. He must have needed is good pay or his paid in drugs fit needed urgently, because he was gooood (some of these call center, bucket centers, emplloyees are paid in coke, heroine, or other smilar pay check, I wouild never go in the barhroom when there. the shots where in the batrhroom, the lines on desk). When paid in money, cash, it pays very well, they do not quit easily. Turn over much slowlier than at Bell lol.

Same for internet shills.

[Tangri]

I have been working in the related fields since 1987. I have seen all aspects of it, at all levels. Believe me, some are good, so good in fact that a month ago. one almost got me for a credit card telephone fraud. I am not kidding, here the expert almost getting caught. A regular folk woulld have seen only smoke and candies, believe it. He must have needed is good pay or his paid in drugs fit needed urgently, because he was gooood (some of these call center, bucket centers, emplloyees are paid in coke, heroine, or other smilar pay check, I wouild never go in the barhroom when there. the shots where in the batrhroom, the lines on desk). When paid in money, cash, it pays very well, they do not quit easily. Turn over much slowlier than at Bell lol.

Same for internet shills.
I was there also , when I came to Canada I had a good nest eggs in my basket but they run out quickly and I had to find out a job.
There was no hope for my background education and had to work for flyer distributions .
But I had a fight with my parasitic light forces.

[HaveBlue]

Thank you fifi. I have to say that may be one of the most important posts I have ever read here or anywhere on the web. We always knew it went on but to see it in the flesh like that is something else.

I have occasionaly used that word 'shill' here on Avalon myself, or ones like it. Refraining from making personal attacks because those are the rules here, is fine. Mostly I just ignore the silly posts like they are not there. It takes energy to respond you see.

It must be as disapointing as fishing and not getting any bites for them.

But sometimes a 'shill alert' is a good idea because it will have the more astute among us re-read the thread, which is good for more reasons that just shill spotting.

I must thoroughly recommend the video on youtube 'The Four Horseman'. It shows just how insincere so many are.