Dollars for Gold

[Steven]

Hi everyone,

I was watching a cartoon on a DVD with my sons and at the beggining of the DVD there was this advertiser : http://en.dollars4gold.ca/

At the end of the publicity, the guy says 'hurry before it's too late'...

I look at the way he talks, the words he used and the symbols involved and I see, once again, mental manipulation. Tools to convince... So, I make a quick look on the net and I found a real growing industry. I was aware that there was an increase market for gold and silver since a couple years, but not targeting small amount like jewelries at that magnitude.

Why they do this? Especially when the price for gold is so high. Usually, to make profit, you buy when everyone are selling and you sell when everyone are buying. But it is not the case, they buy gold when prices are very high. So, what does it means? In my opinion, it means the ones behind these small buisnesses know that the 'dollars' in general are going down, while gold, silver, lands, are going high. So, they get rid of their money to get the more hard metal they can.

I say, spread the word and don't rush into this game. If you have gold or lands, keep them. Some people in high places are doing everything to take down the money, probably to replace it later with a global currency, like the Amero.

Namaste, Steven

[Celine]

This has been all over the place for far to long...

It has not bee translated into the quebecois society yet i belive (ws the video english)

I most defitnly think its a scam and its a race to see who has the bigger pile of gold because money is not going to be worth anything soon..

[Dale]

There have been several of these "Cash for Gold" locations springing up around where I live in the past couple years.

One of my friends used to say: "Whatever the television tells you to do; do the opposite."

I think, in this case, I'll keep my gold and silver. There seems to be an obvious push to get the masses to relinquish all of their gold. I keep a good collection of gold at home, simply because gold can be used as a common currency if the Federal Reserve and/or the government were to collapse.

Most everyone knows what gold looks and feels like, so if Federal Reserve Notes were to become valueless, those with gold would have an advantage when it comes to bartering or trading.

[Fredkc]

At the end of the publicity, the guy says 'hurry before it's too late'...
Translation: "Hurry up and fall for my disgustingly low offer, before the price goes up and it looks like an obscenely low offer!"

Prices as of this posting:
Gold: $1236.00/oz
Silver: $19.05/oz.

You can get an accurate spot price on precious metals by simply going to monex.com (http://www.monex.com/) and looking at the ticker across the top of the page. You don't even have to bookmark it, if you can remember the name: monex. Just open a new window, type m o n e x and press Ctrl-Enter. you're there.

Note to Celine & Cipher;
what do you mean "before it gets worthless"? he heh...
US Dollars have been completely worthless ever since 1913. ;)
They are paper "traveling on someone else's energy".
Meaning they are only worth what you can be fooled into thinking they're worth.

Fred

[Celine]

Well i was talking CA $ ;)

[Swami]

Even commercials on TV to sell your gold down here in the lowlands...........

A thought/question;
... they are digging up grazy amounts (tons of it!!) of gold around the planet, where does all this physical gold go to??......... Scared Annunaki's....??

[Luke]

Even commercials on TV to sell your gold down here in the lowlands...........

A thought/question;
... they are digging up grazy amounts (tons of it!!) of gold around the planet, where does all this physical gold go to??......... Scared Annunaki's....??
WIKI: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold)

A total of 165,000 tonnes of gold have been mined in human history, as of 2009.[1] This is roughly equivalent to 5.3 billion troy ounces or, in terms of volume, about 8,500 cubic meters, or a 20.4m cube.
This gold is worth ~$6.5T (10^12) by current prices (in comparison, global GDP is about $70T, and whole "economy" is worth about $1900T, including whooping $1600T of derivatives and unfunded liabilities)
There are 2200 tonnes of gold dug up per year, which amounts to 1.33% inflation. This peaked during California and Alaska gold rush to about 2.2% (you could fit yearly gold production into a 4.85 m cube worth $87.5x10^9 )
Point is, it's not that much.
Largest consumer of gold is India. Jewelery, dowries, lamps and the like, 25% of global production of gold.
:)

[Arpheus]

I say good luck to all these gold buyers when there is no food to eat,i would love to see watch them eat their gold and digest it really quick,this whole idea metals will be used if when the economy fails is pointless imo,the people who have any food will not sell it to you for your precious metals because for the person who has the food that stuff will be worthless to them,so their will tell you to take a hike and laugh at you when you try to use any form of metal as a currency in exchange for food.

[Ross]

my local mall...outside is a stall, to lovely dressed young ladies with a table and chairs, signs that say 'CASH FOR GOLD NOW' so...you wander over to the lovely ladies, hand then your gold in whatever form, on the scales they go and whalla...hands you some cash...

I have never ever seen this before...not in my town...

Ross

[sjkted]

Dollars are not money. Gold is money. Silly people.

--sjkted

[Steven]

...I have never ever seen this before...not in my town...

Ross

These little signs talks much more than any experts at CNN. Now, I have a question : If you have a lot of dollars when the currency dies, you loose what you had. What happen if you have no money, but rather a lots of dept in this currency? Does you dept goes down as well? Because it looks like the american government has taken this option. Since all other option were overused, raising taxes or indebtedness, so they prefer to overflow the market with new printed dollars. What could it means for the people in dept? I know a bit of the answers and it isn't that clear, that is why I'de like to know from people here.

Namaste, Steven

[sjkted]

These little signs talks much more than any experts at CNN. Now, I have a question : If you have a lot of dollars when the currency dies, you loose what you had. What happen if you have no money, but rather a lots of dept in this currency? Does you dept goes down as well? Because it looks like the american government has taken this option. Since all other option were overused, raising taxes or indebtedness, so they prefer to overflow the market with new printed dollars. What could it means for the people in dept? I know a bit of the answers and it isn't that clear, that is why I'de like to know from people here.

Namaste, Steven

There are many different scenarios, but much of it has to do with how the government and international markets handle it. In the long-term, the dollar will have as much value as toilet paper.

The other long-term scenario we have is a total breakdown of the supply chain. Our entire system is based on confidence or trust or belief, and once that is lost, it will be more and more difficult to import goods, manufacture things, ship things, because few people will have capital and those that do won't feel it is a safe venture to invest it.

One possible scenario is a bank holiday. If this happens and you have your dollars in the bank, they will all become worthless faster than you can withdraw them. If you have them sitting under your mattress, you'll have time to spend them on anything that retains inherent value (i.e. food, gold, silver, guns, tangible property, etc.)

Another scenario I see as very likely which IMO is already happening is that real gold and silver will decouple from the fake gold/silver market. When you check the latest prices at Kitco, they are for ETFs, which is paper currency that represents gold and silver. Some of the recent whistleblowers such as Andrew Macguire and GATA have shown that the ratio is more than 1;100 for real gold versus ETFs held. In this case scenario, there could be a panic where people try to take physical possession of their gold and can't because there isn't enough, and the whole market collapses. Of course, if this did happen, there would be a "grey market" price for gold which would be many times higher than the official market. If this does happen, gold at $9000 or $10000 per ounce would be a real possibility.

Any debt that is not held by secured collateral (i.e. a house or a car) won't be recoverable. They can always sue you in court, but if you don't have assets from them to take, they won't get anything. Besides, the courts will be absolutely flooded with these types of cases. IMO, a great investment right now would be a 0% interest credit card if you can find one or those types of deals where you buy something and have up to a year to pay it off with no interest. Worst case scenario, you pay it back. Best case scenario, the whole market goes to hell and you can pay it back with worthless dollars. And if TSHTF, you won't have to pay any of it back.

Another big item is that taxes are going up in 2011, from what I've read about 4% for everyone with higher increases for higher income earners. There is an increased death tax, half as much writeoffs for having children, and higher taxes for corporations. Obama Care also means that employees will be taxed on their health insurance benefits. For example, if your income is $50K and your employer kicks in $4K a year for your health insurance, your total taxable income will be $54K even though you never saw $4K of it.

All this means that employers will be much more hesitant to hire, companies that can will raise prices to address higher overhead, more companies will go out of business or be bought out making a smaller marketplace with fewer competitors charging higher rates, and people will be much more frugal with the little money they have. Add to this, the inflation/deflationary pressures (i.e. inflation in food and energy and deflation in everything else). And hopefully, there won't be anything to add to the list in 2011 like a complete financial meltdown.

--sjkted

[Fredkc]

whole "economy" is worth about $1900T, including whooping $1600T of derivatives and unfunded liabilities

$1,600 Trillion is a complete air ball, worth absolutely nothing.
So what we have is a $300 trillion economy with $1,600 trillion in side bets.

And you wonder why a non-fiat based economy scares hell outa bankers?
http://fredsitelive.com/fun/rofl.gif
Fred

[Luke]

Here's best explanation what is what in "financial fiction" Exter's Pyramid
2198
:link to higher res : (http://goldtent.net/wp_gold/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/exters-pyramid.png)
From making this picture gold and silver value expanded to about $6.5T of gold and $0.74T silver (if we count all the gold and silver mined, especially silver is not available as it is valuable production material)

[Fredkc]

Gm Saico...
I loved the graphic.
How amazingly honest of them...
while every other "debt instrument" on the chart is measured by its dollar value, the one at the very bottom
(paper money) is measured in tons!
http://fredsitelive.com/fun/rofl.gif
Fred

[Ba-ba-Ra]

I posted this elsewhere, but couldn't resist repeating it. Sorry for duplication, but it's worth thinking about.

Cree Indian Prophecy:

"Only after the last tree has been cut down.
Only after the last river has been poisoned.
Only after the last fish has been caught.
Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten"

....and that goes for gold and silver, I believe.

[Steven]

Thanks Sjkted for your answer. It was very informative.


I posted this elsewhere, but couldn't resist repeating it. Sorry for duplication, but it's worth thinking about.

Cree Indian Prophecy:

"Only after the last tree has been cut down.
Only after the last river has been poisoned.
Only after the last fish has been caught.
Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten"

....and that goes for gold and silver, I believe.

Ah! So true, It bring us back to the basic. Our survival needs can be produced and share without any currency, and if a currency helps for practical reasons, it has to represent directly a work/a resource. Interest, speculations, and other financial activities are aggressively controlling just about everything in the whole world economy.

Namaste, Steven

[Peace of Mind]

I’ve seen them Steven, they are all over the place.

Other than using these metals for things like electronics and spiritual cleansing/protections/manipulations, etc…I don’t see the use for them.

If the paper currencies fail, we shouldn’t go back to placing value on anything else. Humans should have evolved (at least mentally) by then. We should know better, know what’s truly best for our species and step up, be responsible for each other.
Everyone should contribute in their own special unique way to society. Food, shelter, and education should be free. If you don’t want to contribute in your own way (unless unable to) then I guess…daily rations from the world farms may be limited to you…or have the option be place in a society where like minds reside, where you have to fend for self…

Making precious metal into currency will not only make it scarce, it will most likely delay any progress in the creation of phenomenal energy, and other useful inventions. Besides, it might also put a mental scare on some people…as they might see the way of bartering nuggets as a way of back sliding…

We can do better

Peace

[Luke]

(...)

Making precious metal into currency will not only make it scarce, it will most likely delay any progress in the creation of phenomenal energy, and other useful inventions. Besides, it might also put a mental scare on some people…as they might see the way of bartering nuggets as a way of back sliding…

We can do better

Peace
Let me get this straight:
We are stuck in STS/Material pattern.
As for now, you cannot run away from this. You can think pure thoughts, be kind to animals and people, pay your taxes, be living angel , but that does not change a thing : by being here you are material being that needs to eat other beings to live.
You can make your illusionary world where you toil land by hand, and you drink water from well .. sounds good , but you you need to buy this land and drill this well, and you need machinery to operate it etc etc. You can live at this minimum, and die at ripe old age of 35, as people did just 100 years ago, and do in some parts of the world.

If you do not like such idea, you need to exchange your energy with others. Most effective way to do that always were rare earth elements, simple as that.

Of course you can delude yourself that we can live in some communist-style village, but then you better get ready to do some killing, thieving and mooching, cause thats what those things are behind veils of "feel-good" slogans

I say build moral society first, based on free exchange, and then open ourself to breaking material bonds. Still, morality, cooperation and healthy competition must come before that, not delusions of spiritual grandeur.
You can build healthy society here, but not by running blindly for real way to do it.

[Fredkc]

Hi Saico.

Money: (n.) An infinitely divisible means of exchanging value.

Nothing more.

The rest is about honesty, IMO.
Fred

[Luke]

Hi Saico.

Money: (n.) An infinitely divisible means of exchanging value.

Nothing more.

The rest is about honesty, IMO.
Fred

True that :) but also value = energy, but I know what are you aiming at :)

[Peace of Mind]

Hi, SaiCO
I see your point, but trust me when I tell you that I’m well aware of the propensity of man. However, if man is to go forward, they need to rid themselves of money/currency, It only creates greed. I’m sure there will be some fat cat with sacks of nuggets and militias manning mines. It will just be the same thing…but probably more inhuman.

It’s an exercise to trust in others, I know. What matters, is the way you go about doing things. Energy out=energy in, goes around comes around.

We have the choice to live any way we choose…there’s consequences in everything we do…whether you like it or not, you always control the outcome…but, will you like the outcome, even more so…have the courage to face up to the inevitable?

Over a decade ago, I choose to live meat free and respect every creature on this planet…and beyond. I couldn’t explain to you in any man-made language the amount of love the universe sent back to me. And, I wasn’t looking for a return because doing the things we were meant to do has a beautiful priceless feeling to it, get used to it and the world will open up many doors for you.

When we learn how to look at each other as equals, whom can contribute in various ways ( doctor, welder, builder, scientist, teacher, comedian, farmer, gardener, musician, entertainer, thinkers, laborer, inventor, animal care, people care, environmental care,…) we will make extraordinary bounds. There’s not a person on this planet that doesn’t want to live in peace, troubles only comes when we obtain it through greed, place limits.

No one should be doing things they don’t want to do…just to sustain themselves in a world they think is a living hell. Most of the world is doing jobs they rather not do…this isn’t right. When we are conditioned to only be inspired to do jobs that supports this corrupt way of living…we are failing. Placing restrictions disturbs the natural flow. We can have far more superior tech and health if there were no boundaries to leap. Being indigeneous doesn't mean we have to go back to loinclothes, either. haha. What I'm talking about is...Responsiblity.We are the only ones creating blockages, why? Holding back others because they don’t have…nuggets…a peace of shiny rock…the same system will create the same problems, nothing will change.

We must stop worshipping material? It’s a severe hindrance.

For a species that has the knowledge to prosper efficiently, without destroying the world/and its species…our self pride and indignity will ultimately destroy us…one way or another.

Delusion is just another state of mind, all visions can manifest with enough support. If you believe something is impossible…then there lays the problem.

How you envision the future …it shall be, my only worries are for the children. Their innocence and common sense is always put in jeopardy, raised in a world filled with chaos, and heartless souls...

We can do this; it’s really that simple…but a fearless intent is reqired.

Peace

[Steven]

...You can think pure thoughts, be kind to animals and people, pay your taxes, be living angel , but that does not change a thing...

If only a very tiny portion of humanity would actually think pure thoughts with focus and dedication, only that without adding other good action, would actually create a great deal of change. The structure of our society is based upon our mindset, not the other way around. You want a change in life, create it in thought/emotion first and stay focused, it'll manifest eventually. We have the politic, the economy, the world we deserve because we believe in it. it'll change.

Namaste, Steven

[Luke]

Since we are going mighty off-topic here I created new thread : http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5279-Delusions-Efficient-Society-amp-Progress to further discuss things

[nomadguy]

meanwhile all of the actual mines are being bought up and prep for massive excavation is in play - http://www.comstockmining.com/ (look at the logo and the slide show symbolism) The Royal Scam in play

[conk]

Gold, and often silver, has been the standard for money for thousands of years. Federal Reserve Notes are the standard for debt. Every dollar in your pocket represents a dollars worth of debt. Money is supposed to represent labor, productivity, or substance. FRNs do none of this. And soon they will be worth much less. Like leaves on the ground, there will be so many of them they will have no value. It's written into the tenants of Keynesian economics. Mr. Keynes said it himself, the fiat must eventually fail.

What if you made $50,000 a year, but were $1,000,000,000 in debt. Could you pay off the debt in 10 lifetimes? No way, not ever. That's where the world is today. Massive debt that no country intends to repay. It will all be defaulted, just as over 25 countries have done in the past. It will crush most people of middle and lower classess. Then the money masters will start a new scheme all over again, just as they have for hundreds of years. Cycle, bust, cycle, bust, and on and on. By design, engineered.

Get gold, silver, long term storage food, and other essentials, and buckle in for a wild ride. The Greater Depression is upon us and there is NOTHING that can stop it.

Fiat currency: The grandest scam in all of history. If gold prices weren't surpressed illegally the price of gold would be $5,000 per ounce. Golds value is constant. It buys the same materials or products today that it bought a thousand years ago, even though the assigned value of the product is now many, many times what it was then. The opposite is true of paper money.

Spend your money NOW on items you know you will need in the future. Items that will store well. Tools, replacement parts, anything. Your cash may not be worth anything in the coming months/years.

[Lost Soul]

I concur with conk in that the fiat currency is a large scam which, when it implodes, will rob people of their "money." If you accept the premise that money = power, destroying money transfers power from many people and concentrates it into the hands of very few. That very few will be the tangible property owners who are running this charade (think Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank). Those without money become tenant farmers or wage slaves, just like the medieval days.

In recent memory, people who had money and lost it includes Zimbabweans who had runaway hyper-inflation, Russians when the Soviet Union collapsed and the Soviet Ruble was replaced with a new ruble, Weimar era Germans who were paid thrice a day (so they could purchase goods before it inflated again).

Remember, all this is a man-made, artificial event. We will survive whether we have gold in our portfolios or not. The only realy important thing to concentrate on is spiritual salvation.

[sjkted]

Remember, all this is a man-made, artificial event. We will survive whether we have gold in our portfolios or not. The only realy important thing to concentrate on is spiritual salvation.

I gotta say I agree with you on everything up until this point. In Weimar Germany, the only classes that benefitted from hyperinflation were the elite and the farmers. The farmers at that time were self-sufficient and didn't need anyone from the city to help them. During hyperinflation, nobody has trouble paying for rent/mortgage. During hyperinflation, food prices become 90% - 95%+ of one's budget across all classes. People were literally trading in their life savings and any precious property such as antiques, gold, diamonds, etc. just to get food to live. The same thing happened in Argentina where even if one had a full-time job and was secure with it, and one was paid twice a day, it was not enough to get enough calories to live. Because of this, everybody was moonlighting, providing extra services, including the police and government workers. In Argentina, the farmers realized quickly that they could get market-rate prices in foreign currency (US dollar) and thus exported their food, instead of helping their starving countrymen. In Weimar Germany, much of the food never left the country because the farmers could not get enough for the food. During the Argentina collapse, I've read that any household pets that were not kept indoors would disappear and that it was extremely common.

In both cases, people did starve. This also happened, although to a lesser extent in the US during the Great Depression. One sick thing is that when one doesn't get enough nutrients, they become susceptible to a wide range of diseases from an impaired immune system. In all cases, the statistics mask this because people weren't literally starving in the streets as they might be in a 3rd world nation. If you do some research, you will find that there may be upwards of 10 million people in the US who died due to malnutrition which is basically the same as starving to death.

--sjkted

[Steven]

I just received another propaganda, by mail today, to sell my gold to receive money. A small pamflet with a lot of mind manipulation tricks to convince us to let our gold flow in their pockets.

Not mentionning the increase of these publicities on television. At a time when gold price is so high, it only means one thing: The price will go much higher...

That means some money players are convinced its worth to invest billions to get rid of their printed money because they foresee a global banking collapse.

Namaste, Steven

[Fredkc]

Because of this, everybody was moonlighting, providing extra services, including the police and government workers. In Argentina, the farmers realized quickly that they could get market-rate prices in foreign currency (US dollar) and thus exported their food, instead of helping their starving countrymen.
If I remember my history correctly, Ireland was also a net exporter of food during the "Irish Potato Famine"
All three events, US, Argentina, and Ireland were political/financial events, not human/nature driven events.



That means some money players are convinced its worth to invest billions to get rid of their printed money because the foresee a global banking collapse.
Particularly if they can use worthless paper to "steal" gold at 1/10th market price, which is what many people wind up with, with these fraudulent traders. Caveat Emptor!

Fred

[sjkted]

You are correct. It was a man made event that caused all of those people to starve while the land owners were exporting their crops in order to get top market price. There was much discussion about it afterwards and many people have concluded (of course, except for the government) that it was genocide. (There were also numerous political motivations) The only other option was that the people making the policies were ignorant of what they were doing which was not the case.

--sjkted

[Lost Soul]

Gold hit $1258 this morning and silver is over $20. The "We Buy Gold" really want to sucker people to part with that shiny stuff. Go to the Sept. 10 video for why you shouldn't part with yours.Click Here (http://inflation.us/videos.html)

[Celine]

Seems like there is a new "Gold Rush" starting..

[Lost Soul]

Now it's 1,288. I think a lot of people are losing their faith in their paper currency.

[Beth]

I say good luck to all these gold buyers when there is no food to eat,i would love to see watch them eat their gold and digest it really quick,this whole idea metals will be used if when the economy fails is pointless imo,the people who have any food will not sell it to you for your precious metals because for the person who has the food that stuff will be worthless to them,so their will tell you to take a hike and laugh at you when you try to use any form of metal as a currency in exchange for food.

EXACTLY Arpheus! When the SHTF the tides of the paradigm have turned, services and skill have more value than cash or gold, or silver, etc. If the infrastructure comes down, those with skills have more of an advantage and should utilize it. Those walking around with the gold/money claim they have money means nothing, but it could to those that still feel attachment to money and it's unfounded value.

But what a new paradigm it would be to those that have carried the economy on it's back to feel actually have some self-empowerment back to realize that yeah, that plumber down the street is pretty damn important. Hey, that carpenter that built that house knows his business! I think it would be pretty cool. I have respect for everyone in all walks of life that contribute to stabilizing the world around us.

And yes, I'm pretty damn proud of being a plumber!

[Luke]

But what a new paradigm it would be to those that have carried the economy on it's back to feel actually have some self-empowerment back to realize that yeah, that plumber down the street is pretty damn important. Hey, that carpenter that built that house knows his business! I think it would be pretty cool. I have respect for everyone in all walks of life that contribute to stabilizing the world around us.

And yes, I'm pretty damn proud of being a plumber!

Beth, all due respect, but I'll bite.
How do you think you'd organize your work without valuing it? You will what, give every customer 15 minutes? Use coupons? First in, first served ? How people supplying you with materials would organize their bussiness? How would they discern which plumber give pipes to?
I've seen how they handled that in "communist" economy.. tell you that, if you would have to steal or beg or use pull to get every single pipe you use, wonder how fast you loose proudness in your job

Sure , what currently pass as money is bad joke, but that twisted-beyond recognition idea of >>medium of exchange<< and >>value proxy<< have very partiular reason to exist: it helped organize people's energy, made easy all complicated barter deals needed to operate in world such big as ours. Without money there would be no plumbing really, as people would still use outhouses and wells. This is max what you can operate in barter economy.

Will gold and silver be valuable? High possibility, but it not like 100% sure. It simply worked before when all institution failed. On all sites in Europe from so called dark-ages we find silver islamic dirhams. This is what people used after emire fallen. Will they use them as proxy this time too? maybe. But they will use proxy, or revert to farmers using handplows after current machines wil fall into disrepair.
Sure in first moments after SHTF people will freak out, they would not think about "value" but "survival". This is where supplies are king. But on long run, trade will be established, and new forms of bussiness and technology will emerge. To do that some form of wealth proxy will be used, simply because it is efficient

BTW. PTB'S would gladly have no money. They have even more pull than fake digital 000's on accounts. And population will curb to pre-industrial levels soon. Just what they want. Feudal lords have little need of money The have titles armies, land and power They can loot what they need. For producers, industrialist, ones that build advanced societies it is crucial. The second goods stop flowing, armies start to march.
So be carefull what you wish for.

[Celine]

i have thought of that before..

No money system.. No florists ..

[Luke]

i have thought of that before..

No money system.. No florists ..
Till we actually break material paradigm. Then all bets are off. :)

And I believe it's achievable, but we need to first make best use of what we have available now. Guess you call it matter of morality: you do not give nukes for chimpanzees to play with, they need to "evolve" .. unless you have something sinister in mind

[Lost Soul]

I don't think we'll break the money & material paradigm until after the great cleansing has taken place. Grow a victory garden folks. Gold continues to climb and correspondingly your dollars (if you're in the US) devalues as the Federal Reserve continues to practice its policy of qualitative easing (printing of more dollars). http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67F05920100922