The Canada-China trade agreement and complete lack of Media coverage.

[Griff]

I have been amazed at the total lack of media coverage of this new trade deal between Canada and China, officially called the Foreign Investment Protection and Promotion Agreement. It was originally announced by Prime minister Harper in Vladivostok, of all places, and officially tabled in the House of Commons on Friday Sept 26, with no press release. No debate is scheduled for this bill, and it will pass automatically on Oct 31. This agreement essentially gives Chinese companies, including state-run ones, rights equal to those of Canadian companies, and full access to Canadian natural resources. This also coincidentally comes in to effect just before the Government will announce the decision on the take-over of Nexen resources by CNOOC.

I don`t find this in itself that surprising, but I do find the complete lack of ANY MSM coverage rather frightening. There`s been some interesting press releases from the Green Party and the Council of Canadians, but no reporting on it at all.

Here`s a little more info from The Tyee in BC, but there`s not much else out there.

thetyee.ca/News/2012/10/19/Chinese-Trade-Deal/

Also interestingly, neither the Liberals nor NDP have raised this issue in Parliament.

It really makes me wonder.....

Griff

[ThePythonicCow]

Trade, manufacturing, mining resources, gold, ... all seems to be moving across the Pacific.

It seems that someone decided, decades ago, to move the locus of worldly power from the US to China (but has rather intentionally not informed us ordinary folks about this.)

Australia too, as well as many central and south American nations, has become increasingly involved in trade agreements that are favorable to China.

Who was it that said the best fights are the ones you win without firing a shot? (Probably some Chinese guy :).)

[ThePythonicCow]

This agreement essentially gives Chinese companies, including state-run ones, rights equal to those of Canadian companies, and full access to Canadian natural resources.

So perhaps this is the real reason that Obama canceled the Keystone XL pipeline (http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-cancels-keystone-xl-pipeline-to-his-own-political-peril). China gets first dibs on Canadian resources, not the USA.

[Kristin]

Indeed, the silent war of economics. China is far in the lead with the acquiescence of natural resources. This IMO is what the game is really about...
From the Heart,
Kristin

[Griff]

Interestingly enough, Australia has recently moved away from these types of Trade agreements:

Last year, faced with the threat of investor-state challenges to public health measures related to cigarettes and environmental regulations on coal-fired plants, Australia decided it would not negotiate these extreme investment protections into its trade deals. The Australian government decided that if companies wanted to invest abroad, they should take out insurance instead of dumping the financial risks onto the Australian public. When companies invested in Australia, they would have no greater rights than local companies whose disputes with government policy must go through national courts.

From: http://canadians.org/action/2012/Canada-China-FIPA.html

But yes, I agree with you Paul that all our resources are heading across the ocean!

Griff

[Griff]

From the HuffPo:


The biggest problem, says Gus Van Harten, an expert on international investment law at Osgoode Hall Law School, is the predominantly one-way direction of expected future investments, meaning Canada will be assuming most of the risks.

"All the other FIPAs Canada has signed is with countries that don't invest in Canada," he explains. "In this treaty, it's fair to conclude that Chinese investment in Canada is very likely to outstrip significantly Canadian investment in China."

The proposed $15-billion acquisition of Calgary-based energy company Nexen Inc. (TSX:NXY) by a Chinese state oil firm is triple the current total investments by Canadian firms in the communist country, and Nexen is "just the edge of the wave" of what is coming, he said.

Here:

http://http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/17/canada-china-fipa-critics-flawed_n_1975149.html

Griff

[Deega]

Thanks Griff, interesting, here is a few information links of the Canadian Government concerning the Foreign Investment Protection and Promotion Agreement (FIPA).

http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/fipa-apie/china-chine.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?category=1&featureId=6&pageId=26&id=5018

In reading a few links, I come to understand that the Provincial Governments were not involved in this Agreement and they may be sued by Chinese State Corporation/s if Law and Regulations from the Provincial Governments differ from the Federal one on Natural Resources. Why the rush to go forward without doing the proper consultations with the Provincial Governments...!, insuing conflicts ahead..!

And, this Agreement would have a binding effect for 30 years, hmm!, I think that the Canadian Government should do better planning in this Agreement!

All the best to you!

[Flash]

I wonder how much Harper and its communication Bonze are being paid for this. Mostly when it is basically kept under the radar, there is reasons for this.

On the other hand, Canada HAS to get away from US for its exports, we are just economically too dependent on US.

Chinese always place their pion on the chess board for a 100 years ongoing game, contrarily to US or Canada who foresee up to the max 5 years.

For the local, Vancouver from half Chinese will become 2/3 Chinese and Brossard in Quebec will get richer and richer.

[Kristin]

Harper Harper Harper... Flash I hear you loud and clear... not what Canada needs. We need less Harper and more Jack Layton. Only the good die young.

[Flash]

I hope there is some newspaper Editors or reporters from Canada going through this thread and wondering the same

[ThePythonicCow]

The biggest problem, says Gus Van Harten, an expert on international investment law at Osgoode Hall Law School, is the predominantly one-way direction of expected future investments, meaning Canada will be assuming most of the risks.

"All the other FIPAs Canada has signed is with countries that don't invest in Canada," he explains. "In this treaty, it's fair to conclude that Chinese investment in Canada is very likely to outstrip significantly Canadian investment in China."

The proposed $15-billion acquisition of Calgary-based energy company Nexen Inc. (TSX:NXY) by a Chinese state oil firm is triple the current total investments by Canadian firms in the communist country, and Nexen is "just the edge of the wave" of what is coming, he said.
That confuses me.

If China invests in Canada, how does that present most of the risk to Canada, not China?

[Griff]

Thanks Deega. It`s seems that a big thrust of this is to loosen the controls of Gov`t. (at all levels) over corporations (even state run ones, apparently!)

These trade agreements that send disputes to closed door `arbitration`independent of any government review seem to do that very well.

Here`s a good one on the Trans-Pacific partnership, mostly on how it relates to the US. And this is from Reagan`s former assistant secretary of the Treasury!

http://http://www.globalresearch.ca/towards-global-government-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-corporate-escape-from-accountability/31709

Griff

[Griff]

If China invests in Canada, how does that present most of the risk to Canada, not China?

Paul, the real risk to Canada is losing control over it`s natural resources to foreign State owned corps. like Sinopec and CNOOC.

I have been told by several people doing business in China that the military is really in control of everything, including business and the courts.

I think the chances of a Canadian firm getting redress to a trade dispute in China is significantly lower than the other way around!

Griff

[Deega]

Thanks Deega. It`s seems that a big thrust of this is to loosen the controls of Gov`t. (at all levels) over corporations (even state run ones, apparently!)

These trade agreements that send disputes to closed door `arbitration`independent of any government review seem to do that very well.

Here`s a good one on the Trans-Pacific partnership, mostly on how it relates to the US. And this is from Reagan`s former assistant secretary of the Treasury!

http://http://www.globalresearch.ca/towards-global-government-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-corporate-escape-from-accountability/31709

Griff

Thanks Griff, at least, Canada is not part of this negociation if I read correctly!

It seems more to the Corporate advantage in this type of agreement, and wonder how the Administrative Tribunal will be formed, reps from Governements and Corporations...?, in equal number or otherwise...?, it would be great if there were ''ordinary working people'' reps!

All the best to you!

[Kristin]

If China invests in Canada, how does that present most of the risk to Canada, not China?

Paul, the real risk to Canada is losing control over it`s natural resources to foreign State owned corps. like Sinopec and CNOOC.

I have been told by several people doing business in China that the military is really in control of everything, including business and the courts.

I think the chances of a Canadian firm getting redress to a trade dispute in China is significantly lower than the other way around!

Griff

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm/journals.htm?issn=1754-4408&volume=3&issue=2&articleid=1864788&show=pdf

I found this interesting:" Findings – The paper concludes from the case study that there is a great deal of synchronicity between the murky protectionism and the current global crisis within the current WTO framework, due to both pressures faced by some governments from inside and the inherent limitations of the WTO agreements and dispute settlement mechanism. Comparatively, the EU's approach to poultry dispute with China is more scientific, while the USA's is more political."

But there is more from Belgium that is more as related.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/analysis/sustainability-impact-assessments/assessments/

From the Heart,
Kristin

Caveat: last link from the Euro trade commission.

[Griff]

Here is another good point, from the Huffington Post article:


The agreement is not wholly reciprocal, say critics, because among other aspects China can place conditions on local preferences, including suppliers and employment, on Canadian investors, while Canada — because of NAFTA obligations — is barred from doing so.

Griff

[Flash]

You know, we have such an administrative tribunal to solve disputes resulting from mishaps in the Free Trade Agreement with the US and Mexico. Everytime something went wrong with the agreement and US did not respect it, we went to the tribunal, won on many accounts (ex: the lumber wood) and yet, US never reimburses the over collecting of moneys and continued to do whatever they wanted. Big imperialist and colonialist powers often do that, they do not care and have no words.

I expect it to be worst with China. This is a completely different culture (US being similar to us) and contracts have not mujch meanings, they may change as the situations change. China is not a country of law, it is not governed by law (although US and Canada are looking more and more like China in these terms). Stupid government employees negotiating with China have no idea whom they are dealing with. We think America is bad and corrupted.... this is laughable when compared with China.

When my brother was in Indonesia, there were a strong community of Chinese around and the Indonesians would call them the Jews of Asia (talking in terms of commercial abilities and thinking). Add to this the hierarchical and collectivist society, masculine (source G Hofstede) which means an easy button for war as US has, being masculine as well, plus 100 years foresight, we are in for deep sh i t. imho

[Griff]

It seems more to the Corporate advantage in this type of agreement, and wonder how the Administrative Tribunal will be formed, reps from Governements and Corporations...?, in equal number or otherwise...?, it would be great if there were ''ordinary working people'' reps!

All the best to you!

The tribunals are to be made up of three people, with preference given to people with corporate and financial backgrounds. Suprise!!

Griff

[ThePythonicCow]

This is a completely different culture (US being similar to us) and contracts have not much meanings, they may change as the situations change.Well, there might be a few native American Indians left who would say much the same about the United States and its contracts and treaties ... :).

But, yeah, while one could debate exactly how deep the doodoo was, it sure looks like it could remain quite deep.

[seko]

This may give us an idea of why China is where all these big corporations are going to, Mr. E. Rosthchild says that main land China is where the future is.

He talks about if should move towards an international currency. Now this was in June 2011.

ofy21EkXQQA

[mosquito]

Let's not forget a few things :

Western countries screwed China at the end of the 19th century, imposing one-sided trade agreements, obtaining sovereign rights in land concessions, etc etc;
"Free trade" isn't a concept defined by China, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you whose baby it is ........
And wherever it's imposed (oops I mean agreed upon) it invariably favours US companies;
Whole swathes of land in the tropics is used to grow fruit which belongs, NOT to the country where it's grown, but to US companies, the same is probably true of tobacco and other resources;
As for oil ...........
So why exactly is it OK for Western, especially US companies to own other people's resources and have special rights in other countries, but it isn't now OK for China ?

If you teach a child to play chess, nay, if you insist the child learn to play chess, don't be surprised if the child eventually beats you hands down at your own game.

[Kristin]

Let's not forget a few things :

Western countries screwed China at the end of the 19th century, imposing one-sided trade agreements, obtaining sovereign rights in land concessions, etc etc;
"Free trade" isn't a concept defined by China, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you whose baby it is ........
And wherever it's imposed (oops I mean agreed upon) it invariably favours US companies;
Whole swathes of land in the tropics is used to grow fruit which belongs, NOT to the country where it's grown, but to US companies, the same is probably true of tobacco and other resources;
As for oil ...........
So why exactly is it OK for Western, especially US companies to own other people's resources and have special rights in other countries, but it isn't now OK for China ?

If you teach a child to play chess, nay, if you insist the child learn to play chess, don't be surprised if the child eventually beats you hands down at your own game.

I think that's the point, none of it's OK.
From the Heart,
Kristin

[ghostrider]

Time to expose all the secrets of government, and bankers and drugs, and evil... The CIA, Bush, Cheney, the war, 911, all their insanity toying with the lives of humanity, the day karma comes to get them will be a great day for earth. I'm begining to think nothing happens without Bush seniors approval and payoff. Hell they probably made a deal with China to bring down the value of the dollar while they have investments in Chinese corporations knowing this Canada/China deal would happen and also let the Chinese have the pipeline in exchange for staying out of the Iran illusion.... on the tangled web they weave.

[GCS1103]

This agreement essentially gives Chinese companies, including state-run ones, rights equal to those of Canadian companies, and full access to Canadian natural resources.

So perhaps this is the real reason that Obama canceled the Keystone XL pipeline (http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-cancels-keystone-xl-pipeline-to-his-own-political-peril). China gets first dibs on Canadian resources, not the USA.

Paul- Based upon what I have read, I would say you're absolutely correct in your assessment. So the question is, why?

[Tane Mahuta]

Trade, manufacturing, mining resources, gold, ... all seems to be moving across the Pacific.

It seems that someone decided, decades ago, to move the locus of worldly power from the US to China (but has rather intentionally not informed us ordinary folks about this.)

Australia too, as well as many central and south American nations, has become increasingly involved in trade agreements that are favorable to China.

Who was it that said the best fights are the ones you win without firing a shot? (Probably some Chinese guy :).)

" The Art of War". Sun Tzu

http://www.puppetpress.com/classics/ArtofWarbySunTzu.pdf

TM

[TargeT]

Let's not forget a few things :

Western countries screwed China at the end of the 19th century, imposing one-sided trade agreements, obtaining sovereign rights in land concessions, etc etc;
"Free trade" isn't a concept defined by China, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you whose baby it is ........
And wherever it's imposed (oops I mean agreed upon) it invariably favours US companies;
Whole swathes of land in the tropics is used to grow fruit which belongs, NOT to the country where it's grown, but to US companies, the same is probably true of tobacco and other resources;
As for oil ...........
So why exactly is it OK for Western, especially US companies to own other people's resources and have special rights in other countries, but it isn't now OK for China ?

If you teach a child to play chess, nay, if you insist the child learn to play chess, don't be surprised if the child eventually beats you hands down at your own game.

I agree with one thing that the PTB are aiming for,... we need to loose the nationalistic dividing lines, I don't care what race you are or where you grew up,

if you bleed red and have a double helix DNA strand you'r my sister/brother...

I don't care what colored piece of material you choose to fly over your head, your still my brother/sister

do you love and breath and want and need and rejoice? so do I, so do we all.


BTW:
http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-chinese

Just sayin.....

[andrewgreen]

Libya, Syria and Iraq plus all the other oil rich countries the Anglo American industrial complex have been taken over without any opposition from China. Looking at this objectively which doesn't often occur on conspiracy sites it looks as though some kind of deal has been agreed or why else would Russia and China sit back and let it happen.

Als Australia is absolutely booming in relation to the rest of the world through the mining industry and its sales to China and wouldn't currently know what an austerity measure was if it slapped them in the face. The reason Australia and Canada make these deals is to do because its hugely beneficial to their economies. China have a lot of cash to spend and Canada/Australia want a big piece of the pie. These kind of agreements will ensure the success of the Aussie and Canadian economies for the short to medium term. Yes money talks and the huge Chinese population resource providing extremely cheap labour which is giving them and hunger and a wallet for resources and ultimately a greater global political influence. Please try and look at the bigger picture people.

[Carmody]

Well, Charles did say that the insider deep group.... did indeed move to China. (what exactly that means in relation to this remains to be seen, but the words where spoken, whatever those words meant)

Also, at the more interesting level...in lets say, the past 30 years. No matter the given opinion on this subject. This is not about morals or ethics. Merely the subject and acts of completion, ie, carried through: China has not exercised itself via overtly aggressive imperious acts (war in other countries), and two, it has controlled it's population growth.

Two thing that are FUNDAMENTAL to repairing/realigning humanity -as it stands. Whatever one's opinion in these two areas may be, those points still stand. This, at the same time it was and is a 'world power'. A world power that had both those problems in/on it's doorstep and engaged in 'interesting solutions' -with both. Put the emotions away in any analysis, ie, it is the given realities that stand as extant.

Think global, think deeper than the surface level.

And if there is a group of other life forms out there, it has always been considered by me and I feel, others...that there will be NO open communication with such until some stable form of global governance appears on the scene. This is a critical point. As fractious and factious groupings only invites more insanity in the aftermath of such technology and understanding.

As in 'grow the hell up', or someone will do it for you (just outside of your grasp of understanding, of course).

~~~~~

This is just an off the cuff 'potential' analysis of the situation, so don't get all bent about it. :) Looking at what is in front of us and then taking that to what might be, without too much paranoia. That's all.

[Swanette]

Well, Charles did say that the insider deep group.... did indeed move to China. (what exactly that means in relation to this remains to be seen, but the words where spoken, whatever those words meant)

Also, at the more interesting level...in lets say, the past 30 years. No matter the given opinion on this subject. This is not about morals or ethics. Merely the subject and acts of completion, ie, carried through: China has not exercised itself via overtly aggressive imperious acts (war in other countries), and two, it has controlled it's population growth.

Two thing that are FUNDAMENTAL to repairing/realigning humanity -as it stands. Whatever one's opinion in these two areas may be, those points still stand. This, at the same time it was and is a 'world power'. A world power that had both those problems in/on it's doorstep and engaged in 'interesting solutions' -with both. Put the emotions away in any analysis, ie, it is the given realities that stand as extant.

Think global, think deeper than the surface level.

And if there is a group of other life forms out there, it has always been considered by me and I feel, others...that there will be NO open communication with such until some stable form of global governance appears on the scene. This is a critical point. As fractious and factious groupings only invites more insanity in the aftermath of such technology and understanding.

As in 'grow the hell up', or someone will do it for you (just outside of your grasp of understanding, of course).

~~~~~

This is just an off the cuff 'potential' analysis of the situation, so don't get all bent about it. :) Looking at what is in front of us and then taking that to what might be, without too much paranoia. That's all.

Thanks Carmody,

Well said! Gosh, we need to look at the bigger picture about what is going on. I was just reading The Wingmakers Glossary (OLIN) about the predictions made in 1998 (?) for 2008 and beyond to 2016. It's related and connected to this global economy evolving and what is happening to us now.

Quote from the end of the defintition of Genetic Mind(Over the next twenty years, the genetic mind will become increasingly fragmented and thus, vulnerable to modification. This will be an effect of the growing ubiquity of intelligent networks and artificial intelligence therein. The expanding interconnection of intelligent networks has a significant impact on the genetic mind because of the emergence of a global culture that accompanies the arrival of such technologies. )

[gripreaper]

Standing back from the canvas and viewing the earth as one big chessboard, and each nation is just a chess piece, the context becomes clearer. 70 Years ago, the owners of the chessboard wanted to make central North America the economy from which they extracted all world resources, exchanging worthless fiat debt promissory notes to all the other chess pieces, and make this one piece the global elite's military imperialistic goon squad of mercenaries to force subjective slavery on all of the chess pieces, and back engineer the stellar technology they had just stumbled upon, as quickly as possible.

They "LET" this one chess piece in central north america get big and strong, only to back engineer their new found stellar technology, which they have now completed. They felt they needed to force a very quick manifestation of certain contingencies for their own hedonistic and narcissistic agendas, based on certain outcomes they felt we would be facing at the turn of the century.

So, now it is time to take this chess piece's king status down a few notches and move the power pieces around a bit. So, no Keystone pipeline. Why would they let that happen? The pipeline would bring a continuous flow of oil to this king chess piece, and sustain it's power, when the goal is to tear it down!. So, your buddy Warren is given the inside scoop, and he buys up all the railroads in north america, so that the flow of oil can be "CONTROLLED"

The petrodollar, which was very useful as a medium for the last 80 years, gave all of the value and assets of the planet to the owners of the chessboard, and gave all of the chess pieces nothing but worthless paper! So, they control the game. China just does what they are told, just like Canada does. They are just a knight and a bishop now on the chess board, and can move about with only some restriction, thinking to be made king and queen in the shift of power.

But, power does not shift. Only the chess pieces move around. Same game, just different moves.