Excuse me...? Inelia Benz fake?

[The Royal Wizard]

Please forgive me if this is old news and maybe posted somewhere else.

Here's a link to a video that shows how many news storys are fake. The same actors again and again.

Inelia Bens appear at 49:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45w9GlL7deU&feature=player_embedded

all the best

TRW

[pilotsimone]

I've seen Inelia Benz in person. She stood right next to me and had conversation with us. She's not Camille Donatacci. Not to mention Camille has huge fake breasts...something I assure you Inelia could not lug around at her size. LOL.

[Ultima Thule]

This Dallasgoldbug thing has been earlier discussed for example at:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?35617-The-Truth-Exposed-by-WellAware1.com

In short some think that nevertheless the grave errors, there might be something to it, I myself think that the grave errors destroy the credibility of the whole presentation - on the other hand, perhaps it is a disinfo that is meant to make one think that nooooo, they wouldn´t fool us that way, would they? :p

UT

[WyoSeeker]

I watched that same video, and while some of the material was very convincing there were a number of times he put up pictures and said something like "look at the ears, they're the same" and I thought - no they're not, they're completely different.

The segment on Camelot and Inelia was one that didn't match for me.

It seems like a lot of people find important information down one branch of the rabbit hole but then get carried away and see everything through that filter.

I will add though that some of this guy's findings do look pretty convincing and opened my eyes to a whole new level of lies surrounding 9/11 and all other media events that I never dreamed existed.

Use your own discretion as always.

[The Royal Wizard]

"Wag the dog". pops into my mind.....

[Spellbound]

There is a thread about her over at Nexus regarding an interview that Mel Fabrages (sp) did with her for Veritas. He even joined the group to offer his points of view. From reading that thread it seems she does not have much credibility (at least with those folks).

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?12555-Inelia-Benz-on-Veritas-Radio-September-28&

Dave - Toronto

[Fred Steeves]

Inelia Bens appear at 49:30


I'm quite sure there are actors flitting about doing that sort of thing, but in this case The Royal Wizard, you are hereby sentenced to 1 hour of study hall detention after school today, for not doing the slightest bit of homework before making such an allegation.

See you when the final bell rings.

[The Royal Wizard]

Excuse me, I'm not allegating any thing. I'm simply asking a question, wanting an Avalonian view on the topic. And, I'm polite, asking for foregivnes if the topic is treated in other posts. So, sorry again, I have certainly offended you, Fred Steeves.

All the best

TRW

[DeDukshyn]

I watched video called something like "The actors of 911" -- and all it is, is a bunch of clips of speeches, media reports, and press releases from the "victims" and their "family members", and speeches by "officials" and other "people" and "witnesses".

All that was asked of the viewer was to ask yourself "Do these look genuine? or like actors?" -- 90% of them looked like nothing but pure acting -- some of it really bad acting too. But when you watch this with the chain to the emotions that are implanted into the psyche regarding this event, that emotion overpowers the rational part of the brain that would let you see these peoples as actors. Think of them as actors, break the chain, and suddenly a whole new dimension appears that you never saw before. Just like the 9/11 videos.

It took years and years before people even began to see the vaporization of full steel and concrete columns in thin air - yet it was always there. Same with the small explosions on the nose of both planes right before impact. Always was there in the videos but for some reason it took people years to start seeing these things, and many still now if you show them a video where these columns get very obviously vaporized and blow away in the wind by some unseen force, they won't notice it unless you point it out and make them watch it again.

After watching that aforementioned video, and then trying to identify "actors" everywhere, I am fully convinced that actors are used a lot of the times in cover-ups and coersion.


On the topic of Inelia, She goes around promoting self sufficiency, fear alleviation, joy, love, peace, community, and helping one another as a tool to help bring some good into this world, and all her "teachings' reflect that and work to that end.

If she's "faking" being a "good guy" that must mean she is actually a "bad guy", and her handlers will surely fire or destroy her soon as she is failing them miserably. ;) ;) LOL

To know that there are actors out there all the time "convincing" you of things is a tool. This tool can be used as a weapon against innocent people -- watch out for these associatoins that trick your mind into believing "if X is true and I see some casual potential relation to Y, then Y must also be true" -- one of the most destructive tools weilded against the masses for divide and conquer, and we fall for this "rationale" inside our minds hundreds of times a day with the mechinations of what we call "rational thought process" which isn't rational anymore when emotion is blocking the door - which it usually is. Triggering those emotions is the tool "they" use to block your rational thought processes.

My 2 cents ;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Excuse me, I'm not allegating any thing. I'm simply asking a question, wanting an Avalonian view on the topic. And, I'm polite, asking for foregivnes if the topic is treated in other posts. So, sorry again, I have certainly offended you, Fred Steeves.

All the best

TRW

You didn't offend him, trust me ;)

[Jake]

Excuse me, I'm not allegating any thing. I'm simply asking a question, wanting an Avalonian view on the topic. And, I'm polite, asking for foregivnes if the topic is treated in other posts. So, sorry again, I have certainly offended you, Fred Steeves.

All the best

TRW

TRW, welcom to Avalon!!! I have not yet watched the vid, I will put it on mee list... :) Thanks for the link.. You will find many folks here at Avalon will speak some 'toungue in cheek'.. I hope you do not think anyone is calling you out on this... You are awesome... Now,, see you after detention... :)

Jake.

[humanalien]

Inelia Bens appear at 49:30


I'm quite sure there are actors flitting about doing that sort of thing, but in this case The Royal Wizard, you are hereby sentenced to 1 hour of study hall detention after school today, for not doing the slightest bit of homework before making such an allegation.

See you when the final bell rings.

And after that, you have to go home and stand
in a corner for one hour with peanut butter on
your nose. :rofl:

Don't you know that Inelia comes to us, straight
from God. :angel:


Sorry people. I couldn't resist this.... :madgrin:

[DeDukshyn]

I checked the video more closely Look at nose (one points up and one down) and specifically eyebrows (not even close to the same) between Inelia and the blonde lady claimed to be her -- not even close - and also notice that the main "comparison" shots don't show these parts, but make you focus on the mouth -- ask, why not? Not remotely the same person. But actors do happen. ;)

My 2 cents.

[RUSirius]

Inelia seems quite genuine, currently I dont believe much of anything or anyone, but I do take all into consideration. Just paying attention to whats around me, I can not and have never been able to back up anything in the alternative media personally.

[Fred Steeves]

Het TRW, all is well, no worries mate. It's not like I walked out front and saw someone kicking my dog or something. (LOL) It is a good idea however, to be mindful of how we portray others in this public setting. To ask questions of, and even challenge is great, just be careful in making it sound like it's a statement of fact about the person, unless there's some pretty compelling evidence. That's all.http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Cheers,http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif
Fred

[Anastasia]

Love that you cleared up misconception about Inelia, PilotSimone.

When I have participated in meditations via computer video or audio. I literally am kinesthetically tranmutted into a depth with Inelia, rooted, grouped, and uplifted with heart energy expanded. Feels great. I don't go there enough, now that I think about it!

Those discrediting videos felt real sad. I wasn't sure about it.

Sincerely,
Anastasia

[Mike]

Royal Wizard,

YIwDogUsg8s


p.s. shout out to Curt

[Anastasia]

not grouped....!!!! Grounded!! chuckle

Sincerely,
Anastasia

[DeDukshyn]

Inelia seems quite genuine, currently I dont believe much of anything or anyone, but I do take all into consideration. Just paying attention to whats around me, I can not and have never been able to back up anything in the alternative media personally.

Well said! If one consistently chooses to "believe nothing and consider everything" then the background emotions have nothing to "cling" to and fall to the wayside (fear based emotions, like "defense", cling to "beliefs", and so does the fear of being "wrong" in the belief) -- those same emotions block the rational thought process (as I explained above in my lengthy post), so, often people who are really seeking hard to find "the truth" from outside themselves get thrown through the emotional wringer - I have seen it so many times with members here. A bit off topic but it tied in a little with my other post.

Thus one cannot properly "truth seek" while trying to define their "beliefs" as opposed to experiencing and considering on a consistent basis. Stay on that path! ;) ;)

[pugwash84]

meh it's because all humans look alike, little eyes, pointy noses and lips..........well most do

[araucaria]

There is a thread about her over at Nexus regarding an interview that Mel Fabrages (sp) did with her for Veritas. He even joined the group to offer his points of view. From reading that thread it seems she does not have much credibility (at least with those folks).

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?12555-Inelia-Benz-on-Veritas-Radio-September-28&

Dave - Toronto

I hadn't visited Nexus in a long long time till today. I salute Mel Fabregas for mostly cleaning up a rather poisonous thread and incidentally for joining that forum. Given the way they are still badmouthing Bill Ryan to name just one, I still fail to see how some people whose contributions to Avalon I value can hold dual membership. But maybe that's just me:(

[norman]

No likeness at all, in my opinion.

The only one of these kinds of presentations that got me really wondering seriously about who's really who, was one I saw of a bunch of German NAZIs.

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm simply asking a question
Just because a post is phrased as a question, rather than an assertion, does not relieve the poster of the burden of making worthwhile contributions.

Also, in my experience, DallasGoldBug is never worthwhile, always a distraction, as earlier threads on him on this forum demonstrate.

Notice that the title you gave this thread "Excuse me...? Inelia Benz fake?" is not simply a neutral question, but is phrased as a hook, pretty much guaranteed to cause a reaction in some readers. The preface "Excuse me" tells us that you are suggesting something that you are well aware might need excusing. The main question "Inelia Benz fake?" would be a rude accusation but for the trailing question mark.

I welcome your higher quality contributions in the future.

[Wind]

I'm sorry to say this, but this Dallasgoldburg guy seems to be mentally ill.

[greybeard]

I just dont get the point of the thread.
Its a nothing covered a long time ago.

For the record.
I had one positive conversation with Inelia when Charles (Atticus) was setting up an en mass healing session.
We were both very concerned with the possible negative effects on participants--- a valid concern as it transpired.
Anyway she came across as having a genuine compassion for the members of Avalon.

Chris

[DeDukshyn]

I'm simply asking a question
Just because a post is phrased as a question, rather than an assertion, does not relieve the poster of the burden of making worthwhile contributions.

Also, in my experience, DallasGoldBug is never worthwhile, always a distraction, as earlier threads on him on this forum demonstrate.

Notice that the title you gave this thread "Excuse me...? Inelia Benz fake?" is not simply a neutral question, but is phrased as a hook, pretty much guaranteed to cause a reaction in some readers. The preface "Excuse me" tells us that you are suggesting something that you are well aware might need excusing. The main question "Inelia Benz fake?" would be a rude accusation but for the trailing question mark.

I welcome your higher quality contributions in the future.

Keep in mind He may have intended it as more of an "How dare you call her a fake?!" type of title. The joys of language ;) ... especially english.

[DeDukshyn]

I just dont get the point of the thread.
Its a nothing covered a long time ago.

For the record.
I had one positive conversation with Inelia when Charles (Atticus) was setting up an en mass healing session.
We were both very concerned with the possible negative effects on participants--- a valid concern as it transpired.
Anyway she came across as having a genuine compassion for the members of Avalon.

Chris

There was a purpose for this thread, and it has been served. Keep in mind the public read this forum and many may have seen that video and actually wondered ... plus there were a few informative posts with value and the main question has been answered. ;)

[Jake]

Excuse me, I'm not allegating any thing. I'm simply asking a question, wanting an Avalonian view on the topic. And, I'm polite, asking for foregivnes if the topic is treated in other posts. So, sorry again, I have certainly offended you, Fred Steeves.

All the best

TRW

TRW, welcom to Avalon!!! I have not yet watched the vid, I will put it on mee list... :) Thanks for the link.. You will find many folks here at Avalon will speak some 'toungue in cheek'.. I hope you do not think anyone is calling you out on this... You are awesome... Now,, see you after detention... :)

Jake.

Well, TRW, I stand corrected. Perhaps I will join you in detention. Welcome to Avalon, nonetheless. Jake...

[Kristin]

Always a good idea to look at posts that have already been posted on any given subject, and then add to the thread already started. Through reading the archived threads you get a great background on subjects like these. If you have new information to add, have at it!

From the Heart,
Kristin

[norman]

In an interview on Youtube, Charles/Atticus/Steve said that there are a quite a few of "him" active in the alternative community now.

I can quite well imagine that these photo "likenesses" videos are a good stirring rod of the alternative brown stuff.

[WhiteFeather]

Sorry But It didnt work for me. If I may........DallasGoldBug defined = SHILL.

[gooty64]

Royal Wizard,

YIwDogUsg8s


p.s. shout out to Curt

N-NrPOMBKnw

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I have met Inelia twice and was very impressed by her. I believe that

1) She is completely sincere in that she believes what she is teaching

2) The core of the spiritual-reality model which she teaches is the same as my own and that of my Teacher. The core wisdoms are the same.

I believe that Inelia's heart and intention are in the best place. Whether I agree with or believe the details of her story or teachings is of small consequence. I do not believe her to be deceptive.

Edit: I watched the video and these other people that he asserts are Inelia... that's ridiculous.

[The Royal Wizard]

Hmm. Now I'm full of thoughts. Even the Moderator had to put up a "moral" finger.

I'd like to know what I have done differently than other forum members to earn such a critisism. This is obviously not the first time someone have doubleposted. Many other posts on this forum is, IMO, quite harsh, inpolite and often filled with moralism, no moderator pointing fingers as a result. Why? Beceause the writer-(s) are old members and well known? Is it easy to pic on me with assumptions (...not doing my homework, ...please post with higher quality)) beceause I'm a newbie? Do I see a typical cult-fenonema? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I wonder.

To make it clear. I was posting this because Ms. Benz is on the front page at Avalon, and, I assume, held in high regard. When I saw the video, with her, and others known to us, accused of beeing fake, I decided to post the question here. I admitt; I should have searched the arcive first, I only scrolled down a couple of pages to see if this was already handled in any way. It wasn't.

It is not possible for any one with full daytime work, or anyone actually, to be at the top of all issues at any given time. That's not the same as not doing one's homework or being "uneducated". Thats the whole point of a forum, isn't it, helping each other with information?

I have been a member here for a few months, not posting much, and the reason is that I wanted to get to know the forum, it's members, and the "tone of voice" so to speak due to the fact that newbie's are always newbie's, and someone always has as their mission in life to point that out, and correct the newbie.

I have stated earlier; english is not my native language. I try to write as correct as possible, but som words may be used in the wrong way, and some misspelled. sorry for that. I did not attemt to assume any thing in the headline, just an expression of me being a bit shaked over the postulate in the video, and an eager to quick get answers accordingly. But then I stamped on someones feet, obiously.

Unfortunatly, this thread is now about me, I didn't ask for that, but on the other hand, it is an oportunity to get to know me.

For the record: I'm a grown up man, well educted in social science, a psycic, teacher, astrologer and writer. I've studied "alternative" issues for over 25 years, and may in that regard have something to contribute.

So, the reaction-(s) to this post will help me decide weather I'm still a member tomorrow. Life's to short and all that........

[angelahedgehog]

I'm a newbie too, I really don't know where everything is. I don't really feel safe starting up a thread without reading through everything else first - and my time is limited - the amount I have seems to be reducing every day.

About PA I feel like there's been so much negativity in the past that everyone's defensive. But being pulled up by an admin like that, in that scathing and public way was just not cricket - imo - if that happened to me it may make me rethink my membership too. It'll certainly make me think about whether to be as neutral as possible and avoid giving definite opinions.
But having just read all about the 18 people and the sociopath Atticus - re impugning Inelia - it's understandable. There was a past campaign to smear Inelia's good name - because she's doing so much good, she's a target for nastiness - so the defensiveness is understandable. I'm inclined to say the footage is fake - and that says something in it's own right.

[araucaria]

Dear The Royal WIzard

Thank you and welcome to Avalon. Allow me to make one or two comments to help you settle in here.

Your English is OK, we are an international group and accustomed to members doing their best with a language that is not their mother tongue. Being a newbie means that all we know about you is the couple of posts you have made so far. We need to distinguish what you are saying from what someone who is trolling the forum might say. To avoid being accused of derailing threads, trolls often like to start their own on subjects likely to cause a hostile reaction. That is what you have done here, but we are happy to accept this as not being deliberate.

For example, when you write

I was posting this because Ms. Benz is on the front page at Avalon, and, I assume, held in high regard. When I saw the video, with her, and others known to us, accused of beeing fake, you have to admit that taking issue with the front page headline is a rather confrontational way of introducing yourself. And it makes people wonder why you joined in the first place. (When I see a newspaper headline that I find objectionable, I buy a different paper.) Consider the opposite situation where you held say Kissinger in high regard and joined a forum that considers him to be one of the most evil people on the planet. What sort of reception would you expect if you started a thread suggesting Kissinger has great personal integrity and has our best interests at heart? (This is an extreme example: I guess Inelia has one or two more doubters here than Kissinger has fans :))

I suggest that it is not a good idea for newcomers to start threads for a while, except maybe to provide personal input/testimony. Even old well-known members get a rough time when they forget the rules of decent behaviour, and not a few have been uninvited, unsubscribed or whatever. If you are as well-meaning as you sound, I am sure you will understand the position, and take the time to settle in and make a valuable contribution here.

[ThePythonicCow]

About PA I feel like there's been so much negativity in the past that everyone's defensive. But being pulled up by an admin like that, in that scathing and public way was just not cricket - imo - if that happened to me it may make me rethink my membership too. It'll certainly make me think about whether to be as neutral as possible and avoid giving definite opinions.
Such a reaction from the forum moderators doesn't happen often here, and it wasn't due to giving a definite opinion. I for one, and the other moderators as well from what I can tell, like strong opinions, sometimes even including those that I disagree with :).

This forum does a better job than most such forums in dealing with a variety of difficult subjects and providing a fertile environment for discussion and cooperation between a variety of people, most of whom have some quite definite opinions. We are blessed and honored to have the active participation of some rather amazing people.

The subjects we deal with are difficult in good part because the views, insights and experience of the forum's members frequently go against the grain of conventional or orthodox accepted views, or outside of "normal" experience.

Without a doubt, some of what is said here is threatening to some very powerful people and organizations, and without a doubt, the forum must endure various disruptions. Some of these disruptions are deliberate, from those would weaken and splinter such forums as ours, and some are unwitting, from good ordinary folks who are still more threatened by such unorthodox thinking than they might realize.

If you wanted to engage in an extended discussion with some other people in your community, with a viewpoint that most people in your community did not yet understand or tolerate, taking positions that some of the powerful in your community would want to actively suppress, then you might consciously choose whom to invite to your discussions, and you might consciously call out particular behaviors that you had learned were disruptive.

Well such is what is happening here, in a way, except that it's a community on the Web, instead of a community in your local geography.

There is no perfect answer for all participants. Healthy discussion works best when those participating trust each other, and when they can focus on the topics at hand, without looking over their shoulder at the "police" muzzling them. The moderation team works extra hard to be as clear as it is able to be as to what it is doing and why, so that most members can feel comfortable here, and engage freely in the topics that interest them.

This is however, by conscious choice, a moderated forum. We actively choose who is invited to be here, and we sometimes actively moderate discussions.

[Finefeather]

My wife used to always say I looked like Jimmy Hendricks...
Now if you look carefully you can see the resemblance...
If it was'nt for the hat you would swear it was me :)

18942

[spiritwind]

Nah, his lips are bigger than yours. I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself. Delete if you need to, otherwise, just carry on.

[Fred Steeves]

I'm actually Paul McCartney, surprisingly no one has caught on yet.

18944

[The Royal Wizard]

I like the posts so far.
And I can understand that my thread may have caused some upheaval, swearing in the church and all that, but let me say it one last time; that was not at all my intention. BTW where would we all have been if no one sweared in the churches?

And I'll say with Will Smith in Independence day; I like to make an entrance (all though I didn't know it was that obvious....)

all the best

TRW

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Many years ago -- when I had much shorter hair -- my father always used to say that I used to look like John McEnroe, the great tennis player. I'd tell him I was upset that he didn't say that John McEnroe looked like me.

http://projectavalon.net/Bill_Ryan_and_John_McEnroe.jpg

Re the topic of this thread, the problem with the world is that there are too many people of below average intelligence.

:)

To The Royal Wizard: the reason you experienced such a pushback was that the very idea of dallasgoldbug's thesis having any merit whateoever was pretty dumb. I'll say that straight. It's got nothing to do with whether or not you trawled through past threads on this forum, which is not always easy to do. You could have read the many derisive YouTube comments, and the dismantling of dallasgoldbug's credibility all over the internet. (He is probably mentally disturbed, and I say this seriously).

For someone new to the alternative scene, and to adult human affairs in general --- say, a curious 18 year old sincerely wanting to understand the truth -- these questions are valid and need to be responded to seriously. We're all on a journey of learning, and need to help one another out whenever we can.

But if you are a grown man (whatever your native language, and this is not about language at all), then there's something about how people work that you may not yet have yet learned. I say this with respect. You are most welcome on Avalon, but please be more discriminating with your queries and what you bring to the members' attention. Believe me, there are plenty of issues out there that merit very serious questions. This is a waste of my and everyone else's time. That sounds curt -- but it's true.

[RunningDeer]

I'm actually Paul McCartney, surprisingly no one has caught on yet.


She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah She loves you, yeah, yeah ...

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Fred_Paul.jpg

[Fred Steeves]

I'm actually Paul McCartney, surprisingly no one has caught on yet.


She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah She loves you, yeah, yeah ...



http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Fred_Paul.jpg


ROFL!!! You've outdone yourself this time Paula, and even though that paints a rather disturbing picture that's now forever seared in my fragile eggshell mind, I can't stop laughing.

[RunningDeer]

My wife used to always say I looked like Jimmy Hendricks...
Now if you look carefully you can see the resemblance...
If it was'nt for the hat you would swear it was me :)



Yes! I agree with your wife. Twinies

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/jimmy2.jpg

[Dennis Leahy]

I was going to post my photo next to some beautiful woman's face, and pretend to note the similarities. Paula would have worn out her mouse trying to reconcile that! hahahaha Paula, you really cracked me up with Fred and FineFeather's twins! :~)

Dennis

[araucaria]

-------

Many years ago -- when I had much shorter hair -- my father always used to say that I used to look like John McEnroe, the great tennis player. I'd tell him I was upset that he didn't say that John McEnroe looked like me.

http://projectavalon.net/Bill_Ryan_and_John_McEnroe.jpg

Re the topic of this thread, the problem with the world is that there are too many people of below average intelligence.

:)



Bill, "You cannot be serious!!" :)

[Fred Steeves]

I was going to post my photo next to some beautiful woman's face, and pretend to note the similarities. Paula would have worn out her mouse trying to reconcile that! hahahaha Paula, you really cracked me up with Fred and FineFeather's twins! :~)


That would prove most "interesting" Dennis... And now after FineFeather's to boot, I'm rather morbidly curious to see the Bill Ryan/John McEnroe morph. http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Strange days have found us...

[RMorgan]

Here´s a picture of the real Mr.Fred Steeves.

I took this screenshot a few days ago while chatting with him on skype:

http://www.jn.pt/photos/ns_na_rede/images/4405880/original.aspx

I´m not sure, but he remembers me of someone else...

Cheers,

Raf.

[Camilo]

Please forgive me if this is old news and maybe posted somewhere else.

Here's a link to a video that shows how many news storys are fake. The same actors again and again.

Inelia Bens appear at 49:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45w9GlL7deU&feature=player_embedded

all the best

TRW

This kind of garbage doesn't belong in this forum.

[Fred Steeves]

Here´s a picture of the real Mr.Fred Steeves.

I took this screenshot a few days ago while chatting with him on skype:

http://www.jn.pt/photos/ns_na_rede/images/4405880/original.aspx

I´m not sure, but he remembers me of someone else...

Cheers,

Raf.

Nothing like being thoroughly exposed before your peers. Ya'll never knew you had a triple agent in your midst now, did you? Wow, Fred's also Mr. Trololo, who woulda thunk it? http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/doh.gif

[gooty64]

Here's a video of the real Mr. Fred Steeves.....Mr. Trololo

i1EG-MKy4so

Here´s a picture of the real Mr.Fred Steeves.

I took this screenshot a few days ago while chatting with him on skype:

http://www.jn.pt/photos/ns_na_rede/images/4405880/original.aspx

I´m not sure, but he remembers me of someone else...

Cheers,

Raf.

[Fred Steeves]

Here's a video of the real Mr. Fred Steeves.....Mr. Trololo

i1EG-MKy4so

Here´s a picture of the real Mr.Fred Steeves.

I took this screenshot a few days ago while chatting with him on skype:

http://www.jn.pt/photos/ns_na_rede/images/4405880/original.aspx

I´m not sure, but he remembers me of someone else...

Cheers,

Raf.

And who says white, middle age men can't bust a move?

[Ilie Pandia]

I always thought that Bill looks like Noam Chomsky (http://frasermedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Noam-Chomsky.jpg), or mr. Noam looks like Bill (if he so prefers :biggrin:)

[Chester]

I just dont get the point of the thread.
Its a nothing covered a long time ago.

For the record.
I had one positive conversation with Inelia when Charles (Atticus) was setting up an en mass healing session.
We were both very concerned with the possible negative effects on participants--- a valid concern as it transpired.
Anyway she came across as having a genuine compassion for the members of Avalon.

Chris

There was a purpose for this thread, and it has been served. Keep in mind the public read this forum and many may have seen that video and actually wondered ... plus there were a few informative posts with value and the main question has been answered. ;)

I found Avalon in the summer of 2011 and thus immediately watched the Inelia Benz interview. I was so blown away I watched it again back to back, the second time pausing it over and over at certain spots while I contemplated the words. Sometimes I would go back over and over to ensure the messages came through clearly.

This specific interview had a profound (positive) effect on me. Right or wrong about what I then concluded, I suddenly perceived Bill had moved into a new direction... a direction which I was attracted to greatly. For that reason I joined this forum. I then went through my own personal dark night of the soul which ended the day I found Houman's thread... again done through this forum. This all literally saved the life of my wife's husband and my step-daughter's and sons' father.

I am forever grateful to Inelia Benz and Bill and Houman. Chester

[WhiteFeather]

IMO This video seems to be a clear outright Shill Attack on Avalon and It's community to say the least. By Casually and Carefully Inserting Inelia Benz late in the video, The Cock-Roach from Dallas felt he would create quite a stir and mayhem. But Like I said earlier this didn't work for me, as this program that The Dallas Bug wished to install had failed terribly. And It seems he wasted a lot of his useless linear time in developing this failed product.

[RunningDeer]

-------

Many years ago -- when I had much shorter hair -- my father always used to say that I used to look like John McEnroe, the great tennis player. I'd tell him I was upset that he didn't say that John McEnroe looked like me.

http://projectavalon.net/Bill_Ryan_and_John_McEnroe.jpg


What Is Love in a Tennis Match?

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Best_Bill_Ryan.jpg

[Chester]

Hmm. Now I'm full of thoughts. Even the Moderator had to put up a "moral" finger.

I'd like to know what I have done differently than other forum members to earn such a critisism. This is obviously not the first time someone have doubleposted. Many other posts on this forum is, IMO, quite harsh, inpolite and often filled with moralism, no moderator pointing fingers as a result. Why? Beceause the writer-(s) are old members and well known? Is it easy to pic on me with assumptions (...not doing my homework, ...please post with higher quality)) beceause I'm a newbie? Do I see a typical cult-fenonema? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I wonder.

To make it clear. I was posting this because Ms. Benz is on the front page at Avalon, and, I assume, held in high regard. When I saw the video, with her, and others known to us, accused of beeing fake, I decided to post the question here. I admitt; I should have searched the arcive first, I only scrolled down a couple of pages to see if this was already handled in any way. It wasn't.

It is not possible for any one with full daytime work, or anyone actually, to be at the top of all issues at any given time. That's not the same as not doing one's homework or being "uneducated". Thats the whole point of a forum, isn't it, helping each other with information?

I have been a member here for a few months, not posting much, and the reason is that I wanted to get to know the forum, it's members, and the "tone of voice" so to speak due to the fact that newbie's are always newbie's, and someone always has as their mission in life to point that out, and correct the newbie.

I have stated earlier; english is not my native language. I try to write as correct as possible, but som words may be used in the wrong way, and some misspelled. sorry for that. I did not attemt to assume any thing in the headline, just an expression of me being a bit shaked over the postulate in the video, and an eager to quick get answers accordingly. But then I stamped on someones feet, obiously.

Unfortunatly, this thread is now about me, I didn't ask for that, but on the other hand, it is an oportunity to get to know me.

For the record: I'm a grown up man, well educted in social science, a psycic, teacher, astrologer and writer. I've studied "alternative" issues for over 25 years, and may in that regard have something to contribute.

So, the reaction-(s) to this post will help me decide weather I'm still a member tomorrow. Life's to short and all that........

To The Royal Wizard, You make good points. We all make mistakes and you know this about human beings. Perhaps some of the reactions to your post may have been mistakes. Perhaps some took your post the wrong way. I (probably foolishly) usually give others the benefit of the doubt. I cannot apologize for anyone else. It is my opinion anyone who has been accepted into membership can be a positive, contributing member here. It takes time to learn a community and like any, some have feathers that can easily be ruffled. I have done my share of that too. I hope you stay. Kind Regards Chester

[WhiteFeather]

LOL....With that haircut swap that you put on Bill to the right Paula, he seems to resemble an older Neil Patrick. Ya Think?

http://content8.flixster.com/rtactor/40/37/40378_pro.jpg

[araucaria]

-------

Many years ago -- when I had much shorter hair -- my father always used to say that I used to look like John McEnroe, the great tennis player. I'd tell him I was upset that he didn't say that John McEnroe looked like me.

http://projectavalon.net/Bill_Ryan_and_John_McEnroe.jpg


What Is Love in a Tennis Match?

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Best_Bill_Ryan.jpg


Love in a tennis match is called mixed doubles :)

[Finefeather]

Thanks for the good laugh Paula and Fred and Bill and all...



Prosopagnosia or, more informally, face blindness. The disorder was thought to be exceedingly rare and mainly a result of brain injury. Until a few years ago, there were perhaps 100 documented cases, says Ken Nakayama, a professor of psychology at Harvard. But last month a team of German researchers took the first stab at charting its prevalence, and the results, published in the American Journal of Medical Genetics, were remarkable. The new study showed that prosopagnosia (from the Greek prosopon for face and agnosia for ignorance) is highly heritable and surprisingly common, afflicting, in some form, about 1 in 50 people--more than 5 million in the U.S. alone. "That's huge," says Dr. Thomas Grüter of the Institute of Human Genetics in Münster, an author of the paper and himself a prosopagnosic. "It was a real surprise."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1211572,00.html#ixzz2APrI4V2X

[RunningDeer]

I was going to post my photo next to some beautiful woman's face, and pretend to note the similarities. Paula would have worn out her mouse trying to reconcile that! hahahaha Paula, you really cracked me up with Fred and FineFeather's twins! :~)

Dennis


Hubba, Hubba, Lady D. Leahy!!!

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Dennis.jpg

[Jake]

I like the posts so far.
And I can understand that my thread may have caused some upheaval, swearing in the church and all that, but let me say it one last time; that was not at all my intention. BTW where would we all have been if no one sweared in the churches?

And I'll say with Will Smith in Independence day; I like to make an entrance (all though I didn't know it was that obvious....)

all the best

TRW



We live and learn, brother! My first posts were not that well thought out either. Don't take it too harsh. We here at Avalon are pushing forward to discover the language/dialogue we need to further the right discussions we need to engage in to better our world. Folks here take that quite seriously. :)

With that said,,, My mum thinks I look like Robert Deniro...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=18946&d=1351263602

http://forward.com/image/2/290/0/5/assets/images/articles/453px-Robert_De_Niro_2_by_David_Shankbone.jpg

Robert is not quite as good looking as me..... ;)

[sirdipswitch]

I would like to inject a new concept for Y'all to think on, about "ALL" of these comparison type exposures. Source/or God, if you prefer, only has a limited number of molds, that He uses to make us with. Yea I know, He's infinite, even as I keep saying, but, for some reason, he just made so many molds, and as He stamps out a new batch, He just sends each, to a different area.

As a truck driver with over 20 years, of traveling all over this country, and Canada, I finally got to the point that I quit talking to people that I really thought I knew, when I would see them someplace else. I was eating one day, and another driver came and sat at my table like he knew me, and I didn't know him from Adom. We talked about our jobs for about 20 minutes, and then he turned to our personal home lives, and he suddenly realised that he didn't know me. He asked why I let him sit there, and I replied that he seemed to be having such a good time, that I didn't want to spoil it for him. cc. We kept running into each other after that, and became good freinds as a result. I lived at Hayden Lake , idaho, and was down at Lewiston Id, delivering freight, and "ran into" my nextdoor neighbor, who we were very good feinds with, and said hello, what are you doing down here? She looked at me like I was some kind of nut, and hurried away. When I arrived home that evening, I asked my wife if this neighbor had been in Lewiston earlier, and she said no, that "They" had gone out to lunch earlier. It was around noon, that I talked to this lady, and the towns are 120 miles apart. oops! It was sunday, I had my Son, and his girlfreind over for Dinner (1:00pm) after which, I left for North Carolina. 3 days later I was sitting in Tennessee, in a truck stop, and had just sat down at a table, and guess who my waitress was. Yep! My Sons girlfreind. Even had the very same hairdo. Her actions, laughter, the way she talked, the sound of her voice, everything. I, could find "NO" difference in the two. 2400 miles apart. This happens to drivers that run coast to coast so many times that we were all vary warry of who we said hi to. I walked by a guy in T/S one day, saying nothing, and he reached out and "punched" me. When I turned around, he was laughing and said yes it's me. ccc.

So.. when these guys come up with these questionable look alikes, I'm outta there.

Oh yea! When I was in Thailand, we had a laundry girl, that looked just like a girl I dated in High School.

Do you have a twin somewhere? Nope! There are "many" out there that look just like you.

[sirdipswitch]

Ps: OK! So it's not a new concept. Just more fuel for the look alike fire. cc.

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his contrarian hat and plants tongue firmly in cheek...


http://www.iqtest-center.com/images/gauss_curve.gif
The bell curve (also called a "normal curve" or "normal distribution") is a graph that shows approximately how much of the population falls into each IQ range. In theory, if we tested everyone in the world with a traditional IQ test, most people would score in the " Average" range. A smaller number would score moderately below average and moderately above average. Very high and very low scores are rare. :cool:

source http://www.iqtest-center.com/iq-scores.php

It has also been noted that male IQ seems to be inversely proportional to the size of the reproductive organs... :eek:

source http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4923


Hm...So for this statement to be true


the problem with the world is that there are too many people of below average intelligence.to distort the graph in such a manner would require the existence of a mere handful of eunuchs with IQ's rated in the 1000's, no? :p

TRW perhaps you should have lurked a little longer for then you might have noticed, as pointed out,


it's a community on the Web, instead of a community in your local geography.Avalon is a microcosm of the real world replete with its very own sacred cows, albeit thankfully very few, whose clay feet should be protected from any form of liquid dressing at all costs.

As you IMO rightly pointed out others here appeared to have crossed what can on occasion appear to be an arbitrarily wandering line without so much as an excuse me but this can be explained by timing. You will (if you decide to hang round), over time, observe the phenomenon of what happens when nothing much appears to be going on in the world at large.

By that I mean when this place is jumping everyone pretty much hangs out in their favourite subject matter haunts and all is well. It is a sad fact but on slow news days there is a tendency to find members biting where they ordinarily wouldn't. It is what it is, human nature and all that.

Having said all of that I still have not worked out if it's IQ, EGO or penis envy that sees us end up with 500 thread brigades like the 'Charles' saga but being one of those that struggles to rub two neurons together I don't suppose I ever will so am content to fulfill the role of village idiot... :madgrin:

Oh and welcome to Avalon by the way!! ;)

cheers

"I am responsible for what I say not what you understand" JL

[Nickolai]

Hmm. Now I'm full of thoughts. Even the Moderator had to put up a "moral" finger.

I'd like to know what I have done differently than other forum members to earn such a critisism. This is obviously not the first time someone have doubleposted. Many other posts on this forum is, IMO, quite harsh, inpolite and often filled with moralism, no moderator pointing fingers as a result. Why? Beceause the writer-(s) are old members and well known? Is it easy to pic on me with assumptions (...not doing my homework, ...please post with higher quality)) beceause I'm a newbie? Do I see a typical cult-fenonema? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I wonder.

To make it clear. I was posting this because Ms. Benz is on the front page at Avalon, and, I assume, held in high regard. When I saw the video, with her, and others known to us, accused of beeing fake, I decided to post the question here. I admitt; I should have searched the arcive first, I only scrolled down a couple of pages to see if this was already handled in any way. It wasn't.

It is not possible for any one with full daytime work, or anyone actually, to be at the top of all issues at any given time. That's not the same as not doing one's homework or being "uneducated". Thats the whole point of a forum, isn't it, helping each other with information?

I have been a member here for a few months, not posting much, and the reason is that I wanted to get to know the forum, it's members, and the "tone of voice" so to speak due to the fact that newbie's are always newbie's, and someone always has as their mission in life to point that out, and correct the newbie.

I have stated earlier; english is not my native language. I try to write as correct as possible, but som words may be used in the wrong way, and some misspelled. sorry for that. I did not attemt to assume any thing in the headline, just an expression of me being a bit shaked over the postulate in the video, and an eager to quick get answers accordingly. But then I stamped on someones feet, obiously.

Unfortunatly, this thread is now about me, I didn't ask for that, but on the other hand, it is an oportunity to get to know me.

For the record: I'm a grown up man, well educted in social science, a psycic, teacher, astrologer and writer. I've studied "alternative" issues for over 25 years, and may in that regard have something to contribute.

So, the reaction-(s) to this post will help me decide weather I'm still a member tomorrow. Life's to short and all that........

Dear The Royal Wizard,

Though I do not think that there is any resemblance between that woman and Inelia I still can tell you one thing.
If you would aim at someone different with the same Name thread, trust me no one you would have any trouble at all.
Your mistake was that you mentioned the INELIA, big friend of the owner of the forum and thus they hit you.

Be well and stay,

Nickolai

[gooty64]

White Feather nailed it imho.
This is what I thought months ago when seeing the video about Inelia. The likeness was not even close and the boobs-wtf?
But, I feel you are right WF, a shill agenda mixing in Inelia after some legitimate matches...


IMO This video seems to be a clear outright Shill Attack on Avalon and It's community to say the least. By Casually and Carefully Inserting Inelia Benz late in the video, The Cock-Roach from Dallas felt he would create quite a stir and mayhem. But Like I said earlier this didn't work for me, as this program that The Dallas Bug wished to install had failed terribly. And It seems he wasted a lot of his useless linear time in developing this failed product.

[Dennis Leahy]

I was going to post my photo next to some beautiful woman's face, and pretend to note the similarities. Paula would have worn out her mouse trying to reconcile that! hahahaha Paula, you really cracked me up with Fred and FineFeather's twins! :~)

Dennis


Hubba, Hubba, Lady D. Leahy!!!

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Dennis.jpg

Wow, my identical-inverse twin! Same nose, same lips, same eyes, same ears, same hair, same laugh wrinkles, same cleavage...

hahahahhahaha

Looking at that image while listening to Mr. Trololo could definitely cause a complete psychotic break.

Dennis (the one on the right)

[Nickolai]

Shill!

What is this, Americans? No term in Google..))

Nickolai

[Nickolai]

Dear Gooty64,

Please translate the shill for non-your language speakers.

What is the f**ing difference between sheeple and shill?
Anyway I will repeat thing that I used to say lots of times here it is arrogant to name people things. Are you a profit that knows everything and what one must know? Ask yourself do you know everything or just guess?




Talk about the ascending Earth and the ascended people.

BS

PS Am I shill because I am sure that the queen Elisabeth II is not a reptilian?
Am I shill if the threads about the UFO wars in the pacific (have lots of replies) in my opinion is pure b*llSH*T?

I wonder, I really do!

[araucaria]

I was going to post my photo next to some beautiful woman's face, and pretend to note the similarities. Paula would have worn out her mouse trying to reconcile that! hahahaha Paula, you really cracked me up with Fred and FineFeather's twins! :~)

Dennis


Hubba, Hubba, Lady D. Leahy!!!

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Dennis.jpg

Wow, my identical-inverse twin! Same nose, same lips, same eyes, same ears, same hair, same laugh wrinkles, same cleavage...

hahahahhahaha

Looking at that image while listening to Mr. Trololo could definitely cause a complete psychotic break.

Dennis (the one on the right)

It's the teeth that are a dead giveaway: she ain't got any :)

[gooty64]

Dear Nickolai, howdy!:wave:
Here is the Wikipedia listing for shill.

Shill
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2009)
Look up shill in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
A shill, plant, or stooge is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that he has a close relationship with that person or organization. Shill typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that he is an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom he is secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology, to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed). Shills are often employed by professional marketing campaigns. Plant and stooge more commonly refer to any person who is secretly in league with another person or organization while pretending to be neutral or actually a part of the organization he is planted in, such as a magician's audience, a political party, or an intelligence organization (see double agent).[citation needed]


Auctioneer and assistants, Cheviot, Ohio.
Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions[1] because of the potential for fraud and damage, however, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates "buzz", the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when desired (see claque), or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience", is a type of legal shill.[citation needed]
Shill can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit shill for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity. The origin of the term shill is uncertain; it may be an abbreviation of shillaber. The word originally denoted a carnival worker who pretended to be a member of the audience in an attempt to elicit interest in an attraction. Some sources trace the usage back to 1914.[2][3]
Contents [hide]
1 Internet
1.1 Sock puppets
2 Gambling
3 Marketing
4 Auctions
5 Journalism
6 Research and experiments
7 Interrogations
8 Relation to Other Concepts
8.1 Puppet Government
8.2 False Flag Operation
8.3 Undercover operations
9 See also
10 References
11 External links
[edit]Internet

In online discussion media, satisfied consumers or "innocent" parties may express specific opinions in order to further the interests of an organization in which they have an interest, such as a commercial vendor or special interest group. In academia, this is called opinion spamming.[4] Web sites can also be set up for the same purpose. For example, an employee of a company that produces a specific product might praise the product anonymously in a discussion forum or group in order to generate interest in that product, service, or group. In addition, some shills use sock puppetry, where they sign on as one user soliciting recommendations for a specific product or service. They then sign on as a different user pretending to be a satisfied customer of a specific company.[citation needed]
In some jurisdictions and circumstances this type of activity may be illegal. In addition, reputable organizations may prohibit their employees and other interested parties (contractors, agents, etc.) from participating in public forums or discussion groups in which a conflict of interest might arise, or will at least insist that their employees and agents refrain from participating in any way that might create a conflict of interest. For example, the plastic surgery company Lifestyle Lift ordered their employees to post fake positive reviews on websites. As a result, they were sued, and ordered to pay $300,000 in damages by the New York Attorney General's office. Said Attorney General Andrew Cuomo: "This company’s attempt to generate business by duping consumers was cynical, manipulative, and illegal. My office has [been] and will continue to be on the forefront in protecting consumers against emerging fraud and deception, including ‘astroturfing,’ on the Internet."[5]
[edit]Sock puppets
Sometimes shills may be used to downplay legitimate complaints posted by users on the Internet. (See Spin (public relations) and sock puppet (internet).)
[edit]Gambling

Both the illegal and legal gambling industries often use shills to make winning at games appear more likely than it actually is. For example, illegal Three-card Monte and Shell game peddlers are notorious employers of shills. These shills also often aid in cheating, disrupting the game if the mark is likely to win. In a legal casino, however, a shill is sometimes a gambler who plays using the casino's money in order to keep games (especially poker) going when there are not enough players. The title of Earle Stanley Gardner's mystery novel Shills Can't Cash Chips is derived from this type of shill. This is different from proposition players who are paid a salary by the casino for the same purpose, but bet with their own money.[citation needed]
[edit]Marketing

See also: Astroturfing
In marketing, shills are often employed to assume the air of satisfied customers and give testimonials to the merits of a given product. This type of shilling is illegal in some jurisdictions but almost impossible to detect. It may be considered a form of unjust enrichment or unfair competition, as in California's Business & Professions Code § 17200, which prohibits any "unfair or fraudulent business act or practice and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising".[citation needed]
[edit]Auctions

Shills, or potted plants, are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item. [6]
[edit]Journalism

The term is applied metaphorically to journalists or commentators who have vested interests in or associations with parties in a controversial issue. Corporate owned media outlets of radio and television are often accused of being shills for establishment political candidates.[citation needed] By limiting the dialogue and discourse between specific candidates and political parties, the media can psychologically limit choices in the public mind and thus assure that only politicians acceptable to the ruling class and corporate structure are elected to public office. By highlighting the disparities of each candidate, the media appears as an honest broker and fair minded third party to the public, but is acting as a shill for the wealthy investment class. This methodology was one of Edward Bernays' favorite techniques for manipulating public opinion by the indirect use of "third-party authorities" to influence the public, without their conscious cooperation.[citation needed]
More specifically, there are historical cases of journalists in private media organizations being covert representatives of government and/or businesses.[citation needed] In these roles the journalists will present positive stories about their respective interests at key moments in order to influence public opinion. This is often achieved by claiming to have access to anonymous government or business sources. At other times, the links may actually appear overt to some, but not to the intended audience such as with Radio Free Europe, a broadcaster which targeted Eastern European audiences on behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency.[citation needed]
An extension of these tactics is the practice of monitoring news outlets prior to or during publication. Often when a negative story is discovered attempts are made first to stop it. However as this can, in some societies, draw attention to what could otherwise be a minor story, shills are used to put out alternative views, either to confuse the public about the legitimacy of the story or to outright convince them that it is a lie.[citation needed]
[edit]Research and experiments



The experimenter (E) orders the teacher (S), the subject of the experiment, to give what the latter believes are painful electric shocks to a learner (A), who is actually an actor and confederate. The subject believes that for each wrong answer, the learner was receiving actual electric shocks, though in reality there were no such punishments. Being separated from the subject, the confederate set up a tape recorder integrated with the electro-shock generator, which played pre-recorded sounds for each shock level.
A shill in a psychology experiment, or the like, is called a confederate. In Stanley Milgram's experiment in which the subjects witnessed people getting electric shocks, a confederate would pretend to be one of the experimental subjects who would receive the fake shocks, so that the real experimental subject would think that a draw of names from a hat was random. The confederate would always play the role of the learner, and the subject would be the teacher, and the subject would think that this was a random draw from a hat containing papers that say "learner" and "teacher".[citation needed]
In performance art, such as DECONference (Decontamination Conference), the confederates were called deconfederates. When a large group of DECONference attendees were asked to remove all clothing prior to entry to the event, the deconfederates, planted among the attendees, would comply immediately with the request, causing all of the others to follow the orders and disrobe as well.[7]
[edit]Interrogations

Police or military interrogators sometimes use undercover agents (called plants) to assist with the interrogation of an individual or suspect. The plant can pose as a fellow inmate or internee, build a rapport and earn the confidence of the interviewee. The plant may subtly suggest that telling the interrogators what they want to know is the sensible or right thing to do. Even if no outright confessions are obtained, minor details and discrepancies that come out in supposedly innocent conversation can be used to chip away at the interviewee. Some plants are in reality inmates or prisoners of war who have been promised better treatment and conditions in return for helping with the interrogation, as in the character played by William Hurt in the film Kiss of the Spider Woman. One notorious UK case is that of Colin Stagg, a man who was falsely accused of the murder of Rachel Nickell, in which a female police officer posed as a potential love interest to try to tempt Stagg to implicate himself.[citation needed]
[edit]Relation to Other Concepts

[edit]Puppet Government
Puppet, Vassal, Quisling, or Satellite states have been routinely used in exercises of foreign policy to give weight to the arguments of the country that controls them. Examples of this include the USSR's use of its satellites in the United Nations during the Cold War. These states are also used to give the impression of legitimacy to domestic policies that are ultimately harmful to the population they control, while beneficial to the government that controls them.[citation needed]
Even outside the spectrum of sovereign powers many multiparty democratic systems give foreign powers the capacity to influence political discourse through shills and pseudo sock-puppets. Thanks to the reliance of many political parties on external sources of revenue for campaigns it can be easy for a government or business to either choose which party it funds or to outright create one. This way they can either choose to support existing minority voices that echo their views or form their own, using their funds and usually semi-covert influence to make them a more prominent voice.[citation needed]
Another concept in foreign policy is seen in sovereign alliances. In these instances, an allied country acts on behalf of another's interests so that it appears that the original power does not want to get involved. This is useful in situations where there is little public support in the original country for the actions. This type of collusion is typically practiced between countries that share common goals and are capable of returning favours. An example of this may be Cuba's role during the Cold War, in sending active combat troops to wars in Africa when it was unpalatable for the USSR to do so.[citation needed]
[edit]False Flag Operation
See also: False Flag
Another tool utilizing the appearance of another entity is a False Flag Operation. In these operations a government or organization attempts to impersonate another party while committing a criminal act. This allows the actual perpetrators to blame the other party and react to the offense. This is typically termed a Frameup. An example of this is the Nazi Operation to destroy German radio towers while dressed as Polish troops at the onset of World War Two.[citation needed]
See also: Operation Northwoods
Operation Northwoods is another example of a False Flag Operation, planned at the highest levels of the U.S. Government in 1962 but never implemented. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These criminal acts were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support and moral justification for a war against that nation. Black operators would act as shills to frame Cuba and thereby fool the U.S. population into carrying out the intended objective, the removal of Fidel Castro by military force and installation of a pro U.S. regime in Cuba. After investigation of the JFK Assassination in 1964, Operation Northwoods was one of many government documents sealed under the justification of National Security for 75 years (until 2039). The previously Top Secret document was finally declassified 33 years later and made public on 18 November 1997, by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board.[citation needed]
[edit]Undercover operations
During covert operations or police investigations agents may routinely claim to be of political views or a part of an organisation in order to gain the confidence of the people they wish to surveil. Sometimes this goes further with the agents participating in acts on behalf of the organisations they infiltrate or falsely represent as was the case during the Operations like Gladio and Chaos. Often the end goal is not just to gain information about the organisation but to discredit them in the eyes of the public. However, these kinds of actions are more similar to False Flag Operations than typical Undercover Operations. In other examples, operatives may act in a manner they deem positive to assist an organisation to which they cannot have overt ties.[citation needed]


Dear Gooty64,

Please translate the shill for non-your language speakers.

What is the f**ing difference between sheeple and shill?
Anyway I will repeat thing that I used to say lots of times here it is arrogant to name people things. Are you a profit that knows everything and what one must know? Ask yourself do you know everything or just guess?




Talk about the ascending Earth and the ascended people.

BS

PS Am I shill because I am sure that the queen Elisabeth II is not a reptilian?
Am I shill if the threads about the UFO wars in the pacific (have lots of replies) in my opinion is pure b*llSH*T?

I wonder, I really do!

[araucaria]

Mad Hatter dons his contrarian hat and plants tongue firmly in cheek...


http://www.iqtest-center.com/images/gauss_curve.gif
The bell curve (also called a "normal curve" or "normal distribution") is a graph that shows approximately how much of the population falls into each IQ range. In theory, if we tested everyone in the world with a traditional IQ test, most people would score in the " Average" range. A smaller number would score moderately below average and moderately above average. Very high and very low scores are rare. :cool:

source http://www.iqtest-center.com/iq-scores.php

It has also been noted that male IQ seems to be inversely proportional to the size of the reproductive organs... :eek:

source http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4923


Hm...So for this statement to be true


the problem with the world is that there are too many people of below average intelligence.to distort the graph in such a manner would require the existence of a mere handful of eunuchs with IQ's rated in the 1000's, no? :p

TRW perhaps you should have lurked a little longer for then you might have noticed, as pointed out,


it's a community on the Web, instead of a community in your local geography.Avalon is a microcosm of the real world replete with its very own sacred cows, albeit thankfully very few, whose clay feet should be protected from any form of liquid dressing at all costs.

As you IMO rightly pointed out others here appeared to have crossed what can on occasion appear to be an arbitrarily wandering line without so much as an excuse me but this can be explained by timing. You will (if you decide to hang round), over time, observe the phenomenon of what happens when nothing much appears to be going on in the world at large.

By that I mean when this place is jumping everyone pretty much hangs out in their favourite subject matter haunts and all is well. It is a sad fact but on slow news days there is a tendency to find members biting where they ordinarily wouldn't. It is what it is, human nature and all that.

Having said all of that I still have not worked out if it's IQ, EGO or penis envy that sees us end up with 500 thread brigades like the 'Charles' saga but being one of those that struggles to rub two neurons together I don't suppose I ever will so am content to fulfill the role of village idiot... :madgrin:

Oh and welcome to Avalon by the way!! ;)

cheers

"I am responsible for what I say not what you understand" JL

Mad Hatter, are you then irresponsible for what you do not say? :) As I understand it, your IQ shuttle has been gradually moving to the right from pad 39A to pad 39B is is almost ready for takeoff :)

[Nickolai]

Gooty64,

Don/t be a sadist!
In other words?

Nickolai

[RunningDeer]

I was going to post my photo next to some beautiful woman's face, and pretend to note the similarities. Paula would have worn out her mouse trying to reconcile that! hahahaha Paula, you really cracked me up with Fred and FineFeather's twins! :~)

Dennis


Hubba, Hubba, Lady D. Leahy!!!

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Photoshop/Dennis.jpg

Wow, my identical-inverse twin! Same nose, same lips, same eyes, same ears, same hair, same laugh wrinkles, same cleavage...

hahahahhahaha

Looking at that image while listening to Mr. Trololo could definitely cause a complete psychotic break.

Dennis (the one on the right)

The problem is that you are a handsome-man, not a pretty-man. My first attempt was with Angelina Jolie. Very hot, but the 5 o'clock shadow was a bit of a problem. If you find one that you like, I'd try it.

[ThePythonicCow]

Dear Gooty64,

Please translate the shill for non-your language speakers.

What is the f**ing difference between sheeple and shill?
You may have a point here, Nickolai :).

I take a shill to be someone who is knowingly helping someone else, without revealing to others (the intended victims) that he is doing so.

I do not see anyone playing the role of shill in this DallasGoldBug - Inelia flap.

Most certainly Inelia is not playing the role of shill here, secretly helping to discredit herself by placing herself in DallasGoldBug's video.

I don't see who Whitefeather takes to be playing the role of the shill here ... perhaps I'm missing something here.

[ThePythonicCow]

What is the f**ing difference between sheeple and shill?

In any case, "sheeple" are the intended victims. If DallasGoldBug is indeed messing with our minds in these "looks-like" videos, then we're his sheeple.

Alternatively, it could just be DallasGoldBug's mind that is messed up :).

[Maia Gabrial]

I don't mean to offend anyone who believe in Inelia, but I think she's a fake. I'm going by my own intuition....

[Rocky_Shorz]

don't confuse a teacher with a con, a true teacher lays out thoughts to get your mind churning, 10th dimensional being was a mortal mind spin to get rid of those not ready before continuing... ;)

she is very gifted, I've seen her perform first hand, and yet we've never met...

[truth4me]

Forget Dallasgoldberg. I used to look at his stuff and I quit looking after the Warren Jeffs and Steven Greer are the same person stuff. If it doesn't resonate spiritualy with me I pretty much junk the info.....

[Fred Steeves]

I don't mean to offend anyone who believe in Inelia, but I think she's a fake. I'm going by my own intuition....

Hi Maia. Inelia is a flawed being, just like the rest of us. Aside from having had the opportunity of spending a couple of hours one day talking to her and Bill when they were in this area early last year, and not sensing any malfeasance, there have been some things she had talked about during that time, which I have since personally experienced to indeed be the case. That's enough right there for me to know she is not a fake.

Has she/does she sometimes do things that don't serve her proud? Probably, but me too. :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Fred

[gooty64]

I think WF and I were thinking that the guy from Wellaware whose video has been on Avalon at least 2 or 3 times this year was taking a shot at Inelia and Bill Ryan.
(Carefully stepping here) I thought the guy from Wellaware was knowingly making a video to dis-credit Inelia and by association Bill. Remember the video where the Wellaware guy made a lot of good plausible look-alikes and then later in the video he made the really silly attempt to link Inelia with some gal with big boobies that didn't even look that much alike in the face either?

Ok, over and out on this thread. :wave:

PS we are all ONE, Love and Light, Namaste;)



Dear Gooty64,

Please translate the shill for non-your language speakers.

What is the f**ing difference between sheeple and shill?
You may have a point here, Nickolai :).

I take a shill to be someone who is knowingly helping someone else, without revealing to others (the intended victims) that he is doing so.

I do not see anyone playing the role of shill in this DallasGoldBug - Inelia flap.

Most certainly Inelia is not playing the role of shill here, secretly helping to discredit herself by placing herself in DallasGoldBug's video.

I don't see who Whitefeather takes to be playing the role of the shill here ... perhaps I'm missing something here.

[ThePythonicCow]

I think WF and I were thinking that the guy from Wellaware whose video has been on Avalon at least 2 or 3 times this year was taking a shot at Inelia and Bill Ryan.
(Carefully stepping here) I thought the guy from Wellaware was knowingly making a video to dis-credit Inelia and by association Bill.
I suspect you're right.

It was just the use of the word "shill" which confused us ... we (or at least I) didn't see anyone serving exactly the role of "shill" in these events.

[music]

The best disinformation is clothed in truth, otherwise it is virtually useless as disinformation. Someone who appears to say all the right things may well be a sleeper awaiting activation, mission to draw those who have swallowed their words in their tail like a comet to whatever destination is deemed advantagous by the controllers. If one wishes to provide credibility to a sleeper, one clumsy, crass, and obviously erroneous attempt to discredit the sleeper will do more for their credibility than a thousand endorsements.

On the term "newbie". Hierarchical bull dust, yet still a part of an aware community. Our conditioning is hard to break, and we find it hard to resist the pull of cliques and implied elitism.

[DeDukshyn]

I don't mean to offend anyone who believe in Inelia, but I think she's a fake. I'm going by my own intuition....

She's a fake what?

I find myself more and more moving past the illusion of the gift wrap - and looking at the gift, is the actual gift valid? Does it resonate? Does it make sense? Is it genuinely helpful? Is it trying to manipulate me into doing something I don't want? Is it planting negative thought? Is it presenting information or trying to "make" me believe something? is the overall gift negative in nature? ... by this point the gift wrap is already in the garbage (not that I'm calling people "garbage" - I just have moved past judging them and then basing what they say on that judgement, but rather judge their contributions on their own merit. I suppose I could get pissed off if at the gift wrap for some reason and throw the gift away ... but that would make me the idiot.


My 2 cents ;)

[Finefeather]

I must say that this thread has given me a few things to think about. I see many, who throughout this forum, reject, with great loud voices, the attempts to control us by the 'elite'...yet it is happening right here. I see people who have opinions and I see those who have made up their minds about who they believe...I see not one post, in this thread or any other about Enelia Benz, which gives any real critical comments about the amazing story she tells on the front page of projectavalon.net...for all to see and contemplate.

I started on this thread with a little light heartedness to try to break the rising tension which was evident to me. I do think and am quite convinced that the comparison which Dallasgoldbug gives is wrong. I am however long over emotional states and joined this forum for one reason only...to serve and to learn...I certainly did not join to play a buddy buddy roll with the 'old boys' of the club, let alone the owner. Our supposed friend and fellow member of Avalon...The Royal Wizard...has just been treated like some 'new boy' who has not learnt the rules yet...as if we...or should I say the 'old boys', because I have not been here all that long either, have got some kind of list where they tick of who's been proven 'good' and who's been proven 'bad'. I hear some say we should check out previous threads to see how we have 'ranked' people so we can get the feel of the forum personality...a most frustrating task, to say the least.

I look at all people as expressions of life, each is different and has something to give and something to learn. I listen to what a person says and form an opinion of that person by what he/she says...and the way the person acts...and the responses I get from my interaction with them. There is no other way to form an opinion about a person, or an object, other than with our 5 senses, and, if you are sensitive to emotion, you might 'feel' it as well. Now...the thing that modifies and plays the most important part of forming opinions is our very own knowledge AND experience...or lack of it. This is our own internal personal opinion forming mechanism. So it is clear to see why each person has their own opinions about everything that interacts with them. Some opinions we form end up right and some end up wrong. The true ability to form an opinion is thus based on the knowledge we have gained which we have transmuted into wisdom or experience. We only really know something is right or wrong if we have personally experienced it. This is why I do not believe anything unless I can see it or experience it personally...especially if it comes from the internet. I used to read, and listen to people talk about, things I had no idea about...I believed them...and many turned out wrong...so now, after years of experience, I listen intently and read carefully, and never believe...unless I can clearly prove it to myself or witness it with my own eyes. I know every person has truth inside them, but I also know it might be struggling to get out sometimes. I believe life because I know life is truth and it proves it to me every day.

Enelia Benz has placed herself in the international domain by making herself public on websites, forums and YouTube interviews and makes herself available to the public for a service which affects most people deeply. For those who are not able to have face to face interaction with her the only way we can form an opinion about her is by reading her articles, listening to what she has to say, and watching her on video. The most important thing when we are in this position, which she is in, is to give out true, realistic, and understandable information...because people are going to form opinions, because people are looking for answers.

I have read a few articles by her on her site and I have also watched the video interview which Bill did with her, which is on the front of Avalon. I have also watched a video of her at the Ranch (James Gilliland)

Now first...I would like to say that the articles she has produced are very good, and are a good start for any person who has just started out on the journey of remembrance...she has done her homework in most of her articles..BUT...they certainly are not unique to her, and nothing I have read cannot be found elsewhere. Now I do not have a problem in the world about this...I could not care less if she copied every esoteric book word for word and was able to easily pass it to those who seek it...the more people we can pass down truth to, the better. I also happen to know that there are many on the earth now who know these truths themselves without having ever read a single esoteric book or article in their lives. I care not about the source of the information as long as it is truth...for the truth belongs to no man.

What I do care about is the impression we are trying to give to others, about our source of information, and about our importance in the scheme of things. Where we need to look up to someone, in awe, to find the truth. There are enough false gurus running around the planet making fools out of the very people who are showering them with the materialism they love to have around them. Then you have all the emotional complexes...like the superiority complex some have, which is actually a cleverly disguised inferiority complex...where they see themselves as the source of all the answers we seek, they desire fame and fortune and attention, and they cleverly disguise arrogance with false humility. These people will fool you right in front of your own eyes, and you will thank them for it.

I am of the opinion that Enelia Benz has made up an amazing story of her life, that most people can not prove right or wrong. However, I can state without a shadow of a doubt that she has manufactured, and concocted up the story of her supposed 'source' incarnation, and, that what she says in the first 20 min of the video interview is mostly non sense. She has put together a story which is so profoundly untrue and impossible that most people can only just listen in awe...and this is her game plan...to make people believe that she is some amazing avatar come to save the world. By starting her interview the way she did...lead and prompted by an awe inspired Bill Ryan, she has proved to me that she is using this story to entice ignorant people to her for her own personal emotional reasons. Had she not made up this story I would be seeing her in a different light.
Do not forget that I know that all Beings are fulfilling some function here on earth, either for their own purposes or for those around them...I therefore do not see Enelia, or anyone, as some outside object but rather...I see ALL as beautiful Beings...part of our great plan and game, filled with light just waiting to be turned on, or off, as our needs arise.

I am not going to attempt to analyze her inaccuracies and imaginative story telling because it would take hours, because she makes a lot of statements which are just plain wrong and impossible...so I will just give 3, which popped up in the first stages of her introduction in the video on the front page of Avalon...never mind the rest of this 2 hour session. These are examples of the kinds of statements, which she and others make, which she ignorantly, yet genuinely, believes no one will be able to prove wrong and most will stand in awe of her superior status. There is a name for this...it is called Spiritual Glamour.
No great avatar or enlightened Being would ever make statements like she does because they are simply just incorrect...and what purpose would she have in her supposed mission, taking into account that she says she is a brand spanking new 'thing'...that any normally home grown fully wise and experienced enlightened Being could not fulfill?

I present this here with no fear of repercussion and only to bring to your notice some aspects of life which we might choose to avoid in our own lives...I have as much love for Enelia as I have for all of life.

She starts off and says...(and I am just going to paraphrase throughout)...that she comes direct from 'source'...she is not a soul or a spark of divinity like us and that we are separate from the ONE...but she is not. She has come direct from source without any evolution having taken place and has never ever existed before she came to earth. She says she has not gone through the millions of years of evolution, (which, by the way, everything that exists has been through - except her) which we have gone through to get to where we are now, and she does not have a soul, and is not a person like we are...and will go straight back to 'source' when she dies.
What she is trying to say, and let us know, is that she is not like us with all the baggage and hangups and lost memory and millions of years of 'evil' doing and that she is pure and free of ALL 'sin' and wrong thought and wrong intentions like all the very bad 'elite' out there who do all the 'evil' to us. Well, there are actually millions of these people around the world, she certainly is not the first with these qualities, if she does have them...and she won't be the last.
What she does not realize is that we are in fact ALL as much linked to source as she will ever be. We have never become separated from Spirit...we are Spirit...and Spirit is all ONE, and the individuality we experience is a part of the great illusion whereby source or the ONE life can experience all consciousness. The source she says she comes from directly is the exact same source everything comes from. Then she says she does not have a soul...well this is just pure ignorance i'm afraid...and coming from such an advanced Being as she says she is...everything that exists has a soul, from an atom to a galaxy...nothing that is manifest can exist without a soul...even the ONE has a soul...soul is the consciousness and quality of the life, and whilst soul can be altered or manipulated it can never be annihilated or separated from you as a Spiritual Being. Soul will exist until the end of the great cycle...which is billions of years to come. The very reason the ONE became manifest was to create soul, Spirit + Matter = Soul...Life + Form = Consciousness. She also fails to understand the mechanics of physical incarnation and the relationship of the body to the Spirit.

She says that she had to get permission from her baby human body half an hour before birth to allow her to incarnate...and that she was not incarnating with a soul like we all do and that she was so new at this 'incarnation game' that the body had to tell her to get inside it to move the arms and legs and head etc...because she was a brand new 'thing' and did'nt know how to do this...this is utter nonsense...physical incarnation does not work that way. To incarnate into a human baby requires etheric integration around 4 months before birth, and the incoming entity is attached and it is the consciousness which steps in or awakes when the baby takes it's first breath...and what is the consciousness we experience on earth but a stepped down version of the higher soul, which she says she does'nt have, which will grow with new experiences to become our personalities. I might want to know from her who she thinks was doing the 'telling' in the baby and how this brand new body miraculously had more knowledge than her and was able to tell this super high Spiritual Being how to operate it. It would be a bit like your car teaching you how to drive.

She says she kept falling on her face because she could not see through her body's head in front of her because she, as some spirit being?, was operating from outside her body at a position at the back of the head of her body...so she could not see what was in front of her because the body's head was in the way, and so kept bumping into things and falling over things...WOW!...this is really hilarious. Does she not know that when you are in the Spiritual realm you have a kind of omni directional vision and you can see through everything and around everything. It's a bit like a 3D movie, you can see inside and outside like looking through a glass. Oh yes she does say she had that at first but suddenly she lost that ability when she had to make up the story of her falling in the streets and blame it on the body's head which she now suddenly could not see through.

Believe it or not this is just a snippet of the first 15min of this video. It's a great source of entertainment.

Please do not think I will be one bit offended if you miss the Thank-you button...if we cannot think for ourselves who is it that is doing our thinking?

Love to all
Ray

[markpierre]

She says she kept falling on her face because she could not see through her body's head in front of her because she, as some spirit being?, was operating from outside her body at a position at the back of the head of her body...so she could not see what was in front of her because the body's head was in the way, and so kept bumping into things and falling over things...WOW!...this is really hilarious. Does she not know that when you are in the Spiritual realm you have a kind of omni directional vision and you can see through everything and around everything. It's a bit like a 3D movie, you can see inside and outside like looking through a glass. Oh yes she does say she had that at first but suddenly she lost that ability when she had to make up the story of her falling in the streets and blame it on the body's head which she now suddenly could not see through.

Believe it or not this is just a snippet of the first 15min of this video. It's a great source of entertainment.

Please do not think I will be one bit offended if you miss the Thank-you button...if we cannot think for ourselves who is it that is doing our thinking?

Love to all
Ray

That's happened to me a lot. Tripping is common, though running into things isn't quite so. Operating my body from what feels like a distance behind it is normal. It's more unusual to be in my body,
which I get ongoing therapy for. Oh well, it keeps therapists employed. It's quite enjoyable. No wonder you think you're real.

Your description of perception in the 'spirit realm' is a blend of borrowed information and conjecture. You must read alot. You 'see' where you place your attention which is sometimes unfortunate for unwary astral tourists. Individuals not caught up in matter, viewing matter, see very little compared to what we think we see. Probably because we can't acknowledge that it isn't there, and our focus is on trivialities.
Neither are the 'rules' for incarnating as pedantic as you are. Nothing is impossible, apart from adequately describing things that are outside of language and comprehension. That of course is a problem originating in the listener.
Talk to someone who you know has never been a human. They're generally as baffled by trying to make you understand them, as you are at understanding them.
I don't remember hearing Inelia claim to be 'a great spiritual being' or an avatar. I operate on faith we're all doing consciously or unconsciously what we're compelled to, or what we've agreed to.
At least I'm sure that I am. It's reasonable to me that she is. How about you? Do you really know what you're doing? Do you really know that what you say is representing the truth?
C'mon. it's time to be ruthlessly 'real' now. Reality is approaching.

I'm not really particularly interested in what she has to say, or how she chooses to get her message out. But I've never heard anything alarming or 'impossible' from her.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Please forgive me if this is old news and maybe posted somewhere else.

Here's a link to a video that shows how many news storys are fake. The same actors again and again.

Inelia Bens appear at 49:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45w9GlL7deU&feature=player_embedded

all the best

TRW


Bill chewed me out once in one of my first posts when i also thought that was Inelia( yeah i fell for it in my enthousiasm for conspiracies, i grew up just a bit in the meantime), and he was right to do so, wether i believe Inelia is the real deal was and still is besides the point, that is just not Inelia, DB is a very paranoid freak and is wrong in many of his misidentifications.

[Nickolai]

Dear Ray,

Thank you so much for brilliantly summing up the Inelia phenomenon.
I remember when I started watching the interview my being response was quite negative and I stopped. Beside that I could not at all feel the love vibration she talk about a lot.

Thank you, Ray!

[Finefeather]

Hi markpierre



That's happened to me a lot. Tripping is common, though running into things isn't quite so. Operating my body from what feels like a distance behind it is normal. It's more unusual to be in my body,
which I get ongoing therapy for. Oh well, it keeps therapists employed. It's quite enjoyable. No wonder you think you're real.
People who are clumsy and drop things and are accident prone might also have this same experience of operating from out of the body. It is caused by a host of things, like, an unwilling or uncooperative life of a person who had a past trauma in this life or another, a physical brain defect, or a brain nerve defect. This disconnect is also often found in children as well and most grow out of it as they settle in the body. It can sometimes take years for the consciousness to fully integrate with the brain...and sometimes it just never does fully. Schizophrenia is one of the common names doctors have come up with to name this dis ease. My wife was Schizophrenic and we actually traced this down to a child molestation period in her life by her father. It can be a way of saying no more, I want out of here...or an actual physical defect...and don't forget even the emotional and mental bodies are physical.



Your description of perception in the 'spirit realm' is a blend of borrowed information and conjecture. You must read alot. You 'see' where you place your attention which is sometimes unfortunate for unwary astral tourists. Individuals not caught up in matter, viewing matter, see very little compared to what we think we see. Probably because we can't acknowledge that it isn't there, and our focus is on trivialities.
I actually hardly ever read, I prefer to listen and watch and contemplate and meditate. I agree that when out of body you CAN see where you focus. I was specifically using this omni directional awareness to show that she, as a supposed Being direct from the source, should have been perfectly aware of this. She specifically states that she is NOT like us 'ordinary' people.
I try not to borrow information and for me to prove something which is only achievable after some practice is impossible. I have now spent more than 40 years working in various degrees of out of body realms to do rescue work and other tasks. What people call the lower astral is actually just a 'layer' of an emotional state which has been built up from centuries of lower attitude states like emotion and fear and lust etc. and it is to be expected that all kinds of nasties would inhabit this area, as they do in any unclean environment. There are many people I know who actually find it extremely difficult and sometimes impossible to actually experience the astral...those who constantly experience the lower astral with it's limited potential are just still working at clearing emotional states. This focus in the astral is very different from the awareness we have in higher states. You do not specifically say what awareness state you are actually experiencing so I cannot comment further...one thing for sure is the 'spirit realm', as you call it, is a false impression of a state which actually does not exist. There are infinite levels of awareness states and every state, including the 'physical' is inhabited by 'Spirit' or Life...Life is Spirit in action.


Neither are the 'rules' for incarnating as pedantic as you are. Nothing is impossible, apart from adequately describing things that are outside of language and comprehension. That of course is a problem originating in the listener.
Talk to someone who you know has never been a human. They're generally as baffled by trying to make you understand them, as you are at understanding them.
There are 'rules' and then there are cosmic Laws...we can change the 'rules' anytime, especially when we are ready and progress, but we cannot change the natural Laws in life. Non incarnating Beings live by the Law and we live by rules...in time our 'rules' will match the cosmic Laws and then you will have no problem understanding them, and they will sigh in relief that we have finally woken up. These cosmic Laws are as pedantic as you can ever get...it is the fickle rules which make us think anything is possible.


I don't remember hearing Inelia claim to be 'a great spiritual being' or an avatar. I operate on faith we're all doing consciously or unconsciously what we're compelled to, or what we've agreed to.
At least I'm sure that I am. It's reasonable to me that she is. How about you? Do you really know what you're doing? Do you really know that what you say is representing the truth?
C'mon. it's time to be ruthlessly 'real' now. Reality is approaching.
Well of course she has not actually said she is "'a great spiritual being' or an avatar" but if I describe my incarnation here, as she has, then that is a definition of a great being or an avatar. Consider such Christ Conscious Beings as have incarnated on this planet.
We are definitely not "doing consciously or unconsciously what we're compelled to, or what we've agreed to." and that includes you. There is no such thing as been compelled to do something...and there is only agreement in as much as that you have chosen your part in your life. This state of faith, you speak of, is born out of a notion that we are controlled by someone, where in fact we are living within an existence which is governed by cosmic laws and these laws are what governs our actions, and if you want to call these laws the 'compeller' then you are right...but the nature of your attitude would be different if you see life through the eyes of natural laws as apposed to man made ones. The most important thing to realize is that we actually have a goal as a collective and when you have figured this out then your life will change.
If you care to read my post again you will notice I specifically stated this: "Do not forget that I know that all Beings are fulfilling some function here on earth," AND this: "I have as much love for Enelia as I have for all of life.". The strange thing about some humans is that when we are in an intellectual corner we tend to judge the other person rather than question our own integrity.


I'm not really particularly interested in what she has to say, or how she chooses to get her message out. But I've never heard anything alarming or 'impossible' from her.
Well I am pleased that you have found your own source of your truth...
and I wish you much love
Ray

[Dennis Leahy]

...this is utter nonsense...physical incarnation does not work that way. To incarnate into a human baby requires etheric integration around 4 months before birth, and the incoming entity is attached and it is the consciousness which steps in or awakes when the baby takes it's first breath...and what is the consciousness we experience on earth but a stepped down version of the higher soul,
Ray
Hi Ray,

Without defending Inelia's story, what if I dissect your dogmatic rebuff?

You are espousing something similar to what Dr. Michael Newton says is the truth, mostly garnered from one patient out of about 7,000. This happens to resound as the truth to me, so I don't fight against my intuition - I actually sense this is true... but you are using an unprovable notion as fact, to counter Inelia's story. Shouldn't you be stating your opinions as opinions? Even Dr. Newton, after studying these revelations through thousands of hypnotized patients over the course of decades, remains humble in offering his opinions as to the ethereal 'nuts and bolts and processes' of the spiritual realm.

My uneducated guess is that we enter this dense "3D" realm with multiple layers of amnesia and multiple layers of 'suspension of disbelief' so that we can experience life linearly and learn lessons. Some of us have many, many layers, and very thick ones at that. (I'm describing myself.) Some may have quite a bit less layers - so few, in fact, that so much true reality is experienced that it overshadows/hides/obfuscates/clouds the perception of whatever layers remain. So, in Inelia's case, she may well be stating what she sees as the truth, but is still under the influence of enough of the more subtle 3D apparatus that she may be incorrect about some of what she sees as the truth.

There is a huge difference between a "spiritually advanced" being with integrity but with some 3D, not-so-vestigial-after-all confusion and someone who is a calculating, deliberately lying, self-serving, bliss-oil salesman. My opinion approaches the former; yours may approach the latter - but it is important to state (and re-state, if necessary for clarity), that you are not able to offer provable knowledge to elevate your opinion from "opinion" to "fact."

Dennis

[RunningDeer]

First, thank you Ray, Dennis, Mark and All, for your honest exchanges.

I’ve had similar gut & heart responses on points. My thoughts about any information is to use what works and leave the rest. No one person or program has all The Answers. It’s all a collection of data. Some data serves to cancel out data that I once believed was the way to ‘Truth’ (whatever that is).

I keep coming back to a simple place. Until I figure out what it is or is not, I’ll live a full-on experience of: Love, sharing, joy, patience, cry, peace, silence, laugh, community, and fly kites. Those fill me. I just need to remind myself to get out of my own way. That’s when the whispers tap dance.

Peace,
Paula

[Finefeather]

...this is utter nonsense...physical incarnation does not work that way. To incarnate into a human baby requires etheric integration around 4 months before birth, and the incoming entity is attached and it is the consciousness which steps in or awakes when the baby takes it's first breath...and what is the consciousness we experience on earth but a stepped down version of the higher soul,
Ray
Hi Ray,

Without defending Inelia's story, what if I dissect your dogmatic rebuff?

You are espousing something similar to what Dr. Michael Newton says is the truth, mostly garnered from one patient out of about 7,000. This happens to resound as the truth to me, so I don't fight against my intuition - I actually sense this is true... but you are using an unprovable notion as fact, to counter Inelia's story. Shouldn't you be stating your opinions as opinions? Even Dr. Newton, after studying these revelations through thousands of hypnotized patients over the course of decades, remains humble in offering his opinions as to the ethereal 'nuts and bolts and processes' of the spiritual realm.

My uneducated guess is that we enter this dense "3D" realm with multiple layers of amnesia and multiple layers of 'suspension of disbelief' so that we can experience life linearly and learn lessons. Some of us have many, many layers, and very thick ones at that. (I'm describing myself.) Some may have quite a bit less layers - so few, in fact, that so much true reality is experienced that it overshadows/hides/obfuscates/clouds the perception of whatever layers remain. So, in Inelia's case, she may well be stating what she sees as the truth, but is still under the influence of enough of the more subtle 3D apparatus that she may be incorrect about some of what she sees as the truth.

There is a huge difference between a "spiritually advanced" being with integrity but with some 3D, not-so-vestigial-after-all confusion and someone who is a calculating, deliberately lying, self-serving, bliss-oil salesman. My opinion approaches the former; yours may approach the latter - but it is important to state (and re-state, if necessary for clarity), that you are not able to offer provable knowledge to elevate your opinion from "opinion" to "fact."

Dennis
Hi Dennis
If you would like me to state that what I said was an opinion only, then so be it...and my apology goes out to you and everyone who I have mislead into thinking that this was all facts I wrote. How arrogant of me not to state that this was my opinion only.

I am not aware of Dr, Michael Newton and his claims...thank you for that.

I would never consider anyone or anything as 'evil'...in my understanding, 'evil' does not exist...'evil' has degrees of severity which tells me it is all in the mind.

I am not consciously espousing or adopting any dogmatic principle for the sake of argument or solely to put Enelia down...This is the last thing that ever gets a chance to manifest in my mind, if it in fact would get a chance. I stated in my post that: "Do not forget that I know that all Beings are fulfilling some function here on earth, either for their own purposes or for those around them...I therefore do not see Enelia, or anyone, as some outside object but rather...I see ALL as beautiful Beings...part of our great plan and game, filled with light just waiting to be turned on, or off, as our needs arise."
I also stated that: "I know every person has truth inside them, but I also know it might be struggling to get out sometimes"
My mission is to see truth out in the open, because we are so drowned by information, especially on the internet, about so called spiritual truths and a lot of it is just not correct according to my understanding and experience and remembrance. I am very aware of the fact that truth comes in many packages and in strange ways...but, I am also aware of much deception and ulterior motive by material forces. I am also aware that we are approaching a cosmic graduation event...and no it is not ascension as some might think...but there are similarities...and so preparation is of utmost importance.
Now...having said that the question is...who do I think I am to write statements which are clearly not proven by science...and who am I to state with such assertion and perceived arrogance, that some things are right and some things are wrong? Well I have given my answer in my post when I said: "We only really know something is right or wrong if we have personally experienced it. This is why I do not believe anything unless I can see it or experience it personally".

I really have no desire or inclination to put my story out, because I am not what counts in life...I have simply come in a group of many other Beings to assist wherever we can, some of us have chosen to go public while others have chosen to work in the ghettos and away from public eyes. We are no different from any one here on this planet and we bleed and love as all should. We are a little further along the path than most but that does not make us better or more anything. We are constantly in touch with the information we are lead to give out and we also...as all others do...attend the halls of wisdom and learning during our body sleep state. The difference is I am able to bring it back in full memory. I choose to give out information it is up to those who receive it to prove it to themselves...the deal does not come with a built in auto wisdom finder :) We play the same game. You and anyone has the right to accept or reject whatever we or I say...there is no transgression or consequence.

The factors which influence our 'amnesia' is actually a thing called the 'ring pass not'. This is a state in which whatever is inside stays inside until slowly the 'ring pass not' expands in accordance with our enlightened state. Enlightenment comes from inside, through the singularity, raising the vibrational state of the 'body' (more consciousness from higher knowledge). As the 'ring pass not' expands we reach higher levels of 'spirituality'. It is exactly the same as radium...radium is actually just an enlightened chemical element...as above so below.
The force that causes enlightenment is kundalini, the rate at which it moves is decided by chakra balance, which is decided by attitude, which is decided by knowledge, which all turns into unconditional love/wisdom, which is an expansion of consciousness, which means a greater 'ring pass not'. which means a wiser soul.

I am not debating Enelia as a person, I am questioning her intention by giving such a magnified picture of herself. If she was aware of it or not she made statements which are IMO quite incorrect...and here is the crux of the story.
If she was who she claims, and do not get confused about this, an entity or Being DIRECTLY from source this would in effect make her the highest ever avatar or enlightened Being to appear on this planet...she would by birth literally know everything...so there would be NO 3D clouds hanging over her head. Of course we know from occult (the good kind) sciences that such a Being would find it extremely impossible to incarnate into a mortal body because the energies would destroy the body...and that is why we have as you called it multilayers of consciousness in order to step down the light to allow safe incarnation.

Love to you
Ray

[Chester]

Great posts... We can see how easy it is for "the ego" to manifest as well as to take issue... I saw the last several exchanges as examples of healthy egos as opposed to egos that descend into disharmonious exchange. Love wins another bet! Yes!

To Ray... I was wondering of late what might be the actual foundation of my recent, completely transformed attitude. The reason I asked this question to myself was because my attitude has been consistently super positive and this has never been the case in my previous 55 years.

Now I get it... I did the work to obtain the required knowledge. I currently see this as a privilege provided to me from something greater than myself. I hope I can consistently honor this privilege. I make the odds high that I will.

And now we have "game on" more than ever (said through the eyes of my "never satisfied" ego) which, fortunately, if the formula is right I have no need to be concerned as I actually have acquired the required minimal knowledge such that my attitude will remain positive and I will be able to consistently manifest my intention to remain in positive/right relationship with all, everyone and everything and perhaps be of true service to others - my only goal.

Love these types of threads... they feel like anchoring opportunities. Enjoy the Day, Chester

[Sidney]

Its obvious that is not Inelia. Anyone with 2 eyes, even 1 eye can see that. The real question is the motive of even starting a thread like this. This is not about Inelia, IMHO- Its about the OP

:sorry:

[DeDukshyn]

A lot of really unimportant unprovable things matter way too much to some people ... Beliefs ... I think I've talked about those before ... ;)

We all love the prisons of belief don't we? ;) Such a cruel addiction that we try to wear proudly ...

My 2 cents ;)

Believe nothing, consider everything ...

[markpierre]

People who are clumsy and drop things and are accident prone might also have this same experience of operating from out of the body. It is caused by a host of things, like, an unwilling or uncooperative life of a person who had a past trauma in this life or another, a physical brain defect, or a brain nerve defect. This disconnect is also often found in children as well and most grow out of it as they settle in the body. It can sometimes take years for the consciousness to fully integrate with the brain...and sometimes it just never does fully. Schizophrenia is one of the common names doctors have come up with to name this dis ease. My wife was Schizophrenic and we actually traced this down to a child molestation period in her life by her father. It can be a way of saying no more, I want out of here...or an actual physical defect...and don't forget even the emotional and mental bodies are physical.

Ray

My body isn't awkward when I'm fully in it. Then it's like ballet. When it's being operated by remote control, it's awkward. I've had that conversation with a lot of better informed individuals than you,
from in bod and from out.
Use your powers of consideration and consider it. It's hard to insult me, but it's easy to be patronizing. That accomplishes nothing.

Anyone who isn't familiar with Inelia's work who's viewpoint is coloured by others subjective observations, I hope can be helped to let the colour return to objective.
It's material that either encourages them or it doesn't. This is the time to be encouraging. If it doesn't work for you, "I don't know" is the honest viewpoint. If it doesn't 'ring', ignore it.
If it isn't encouraging you, ignore it. If you aren't encouraging others, ignore yourself. 'Truth' is the still and pristine spaces between the thoughts about it.

Your authority on 'cosmic law' is subjective as well. It's the law of mind, which is essentially 'you get what you ask for'.
What people don't understand is that mind without exception does only, and always, and exactly what it believes is in it's own best interest.
That's how what we discern as 'evil' is allowed to do what it does. That's how matter is held in form, that's how mind becomes trapped in time. And it's also how it escapes.
'What do I want?' is the question everyone should be asking right now.
The ultimate mechanics of it it all is for us to discover in our merger with our whole Selves, not to know with human authority, and not to 'understand' by mimicking nonhuman authority.
Opinions are psychic pollution. My 'opinion' is no more useful to me or to anyone than yours is. We've got to be very careful in discerning who from within our own minds is communicating
and what the purpose is.
You should be able to agree with that.

kind regards

[markpierre]

Great posts... We can see how easy it is for "the ego" to manifest as well as to take issue... I saw the last several exchanges as examples of healthy egos as opposed to egos that descend into disharmonious exchange. Love wins another bet! Yes!

To Ray... I was wondering of late what might be the actual foundation of my recent, completely transformed attitude. The reason I asked this question to myself was because my attitude has been consistently super positive and this has never been the case in my previous 55 years.

Now I get it... I did the work to obtain the required knowledge. I currently see this as a privilege provided to me from something greater than myself. I hope I can consistently honor this privilege. I make the odds high that I will.

And now we have "game on" more than ever (said through the eyes of my "never satisfied" ego) which, fortunately, if the formula is right I have no need to be concerned as I actually have acquired the required minimal knowledge such that my attitude will remain positive and I will be able to consistently manifest my intention to remain in positive/right relationship with all, everyone and everything and perhaps be of true service to others - my only goal.

Love these types of threads... they feel like anchoring opportunities. Enjoy the Day, Chester

Hey Chester, I just thought of a way to explain what I do for myself, because I think that's what you're doing.
You just put your finger on your nose and take absolutely full responsibility for absolutely everything that happens absolutely everywhere to absolutely everyone..
And then you forgive yourself for it all because somehow through trials and errors and a lot of headbanging you've learned to know your own heart.
And then you fall in love with yourself.
And you become your own best friend, and your assessment of things becomes the only one you'll trust
because it was 'the friend' who wrote the script for you and only you, and showed you what your part was.

Well, most of that is 'what is', and a little that we aspire to. But only because we like to chase the ball because it's fun. When it's caught, the game is over.

[gooty64]

You just put your finger on your nose and take absolutely full responsibility for absolutely everything that happens absolutely everywhere to absolutely everyone..
And then you forgive yourself for it all because somehow through trials and errors and a lot of headbanging you've learned to know your own heart.
And then you fall in love with yourself.
And you become your own best friend,

working on it

[The Royal Wizard]

Ego: Indoctrinated (as in upbringing, education and so forth) minds perception of feelings, also called emotions, originating from the reptilian brain, as probably all of you avalonians know. Fear, anger, preservation of ones thought-to-be rights.
Self: Mind is serving the heart/intuition, one do not jump to conclusions, thinking before acting, trying as best as one can to stay balanced, the same rule for everybody including one self, even if it bites.

The battle between these two are humans biggest struggle. The last few days I have had mine in that regard. Ego was upset with all the characteristics; dumb, not grown up, contribution of low quality, not learned how people work, contribution being a waste of peoples time. In short, players taking the man, not the ball.

Ego didn't won, of course. That said, I'm still a bit confused how an advanced forum like Avalon can get to this point of «naming» a new guy on the block. But of course, I didn't know of Bills an Inelias close contact. It's always hard to take when someone question a person held in high regard.

And Bill, I found the video on David Ickes website, another person I hold in high regard. I didn't read the comments on youtube due to the fact that I never saw it there. The makers of the video I know nothing about. There are a lot of morons out there making videos, statements and name whistle blowers, I simply doesn't have the time checking them all out. That's why I have a few sites i visit regularly, Avalon, David Icke and Project camelot are some of them, due to the fact that mostly all of the information are checked, if there's at all is possible to check it all for credibility. Some traps will always fill it's mission.

In my world there is absolutely possible that governments hire actors to play their parts in fearmongering, problem, reaction solution. When normal humans wont do the ****, find someone to pay. That was my reaction to what I saw in the video, in that regard I do not care who made it. The maker may be mentally ill, as you said Bill, but many people will call us at Avalon crazy, David Icke and his reptilian theories, must be mentally ill to bring such postulates to market?....In my view, nothing is impossible. I have to be open for anything, at any given time. So I wondered what this video was all about, I found it at an credible website, and posted it here, because I'm open to the postulates given there, but not stupid enough to not listen to what others have to say. In that regard, mission accomplished.

Just to be clear, I won't take any more “****”. But due to the fact that many here at Avalon have huge thoughts, theories and facts really worth listening to, I want to stay, and hope that's ok with you all. And Bill, I've always held your work in high regard, you are a brave man and have contributed much for human freedom. I hope we can put all this behind us, there are important issues to discuss and work to be done in this unstable times.

All the best.

TRW

[markpierre]

Hey Wizard, I thought this was a good thread. Inelia dropped out of my mailbox some time ago, and I'd been wondering how she was perceived these days.
Pretty par through the posts in regard to the rubbish/riches ratio, but you really need to hang in there and dig for the gold. Sometimes the whole purpose of a thread
is where the interaction goes. It uncovers stuff. We're not learning new stuff as much as uncovering old stuff either in us or in the world. It can get worse.
And I didn't notice that you contributed to the rubbish, so you shouldn't take it personally. You don't deserve that.
These posts aren't private, though they sound it sometimes, and so the 'personal' is sort of a fantasy too.
You could be the most level head here for all anyone knows. It'd be good if you gave us a chance.

[Jake]

Inelia is an amazing and wonderful person. I got to know her a bit, and still get some emails from her. I am not online as much, but I used to catch her on skype,, she is always wonderful. People should not be so shocked to encounter amazing and wonderful beings. By now, I suppose that we ALL are amazing and wonderful beings. I never participated in the 'apotheosis' of Inelia. I don't believe that she would approve either!! She is a dear, and kind human. No matter where she (or I, or YOU, for that matter) comes from, she is human,, just like you and me.

[DeDukshyn]

You just put your finger on your nose and take absolutely full responsibility for absolutely everything that happens absolutely everywhere to absolutely everyone..
And then you forgive yourself for it all because somehow through trials and errors and a lot of headbanging you've learned to know your own heart.
And then you fall in love with yourself.
And you become your own best friend, and your assessment of things becomes the only one you'll trust
because it was 'the friend' who wrote the script for you and only you, and showed you what your part was.

Well, most of that is 'what is', and a little that we aspire to. But only because we like to chase the ball because it's fun. When it's caught, the game is over.

This is something I do as well (something similar), and it is very powerful.

Expand yourself to be all the evil in the world -- everything that might make feel you negative and then forgive yourself, truly forgive, then forgive yourself for having perceived and participated in the world in that way, for in reality we are one Being, a collective, and we should begin to treat ourselves fully with the love and respect that we would want to be treated as an individual.

This shifts mindset into more of a 'service to all' mode and alleviates subconscious fear of "others", and injects love and forgiveness into the collective - where we need it most.

My 2 cents ... ;)

[Sloppyjoe]

Anyone who charges $100 bucks for a guide to ascension is a fake to me.

[DeDukshyn]

Anyone who charges $100 bucks for a guide to ascension is a fake to me.

Thanks for your perspective.

They way I assign value to people is to look at whether or not they are contributing to peoples personal well being, mind and body health, propagating love, kindness and community, education, understanding.


Do you understand what she means when from her point of view of ascension? (in other words, do you know that which you are even judging? what her guide is actually about? I assume you have read it?)

She also makes it very clear that if anyone who is in unfortunate enough a situation to not afford the course, contact her personally to see if something can be worked out because she believes no one should be denied access to the information due to certain circumstances.

I'm not defending her, I'm defending the truth.

[markpierre]

Anyone who charges $100 bucks for a guide to ascension is a fake to me.

You can pay a psychiatrist a $150 for a single visit to have him tell you you're warped and maladjusted,
and he will fix your serotonin uptake issues with an easy little pill. Or a psychologist to teach you some NLP to use on yourself
whenever you think the world has gone insane and your food and your water have been poisoned. That's just crazy.
So you can wander off into your nightmare happy and unaware as a duck, if you can still cross the road without getting hit.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Anyone who charges $100 bucks for a guide to ascension is a fake to me.

You're right. She should just get a job and stop teaching. No one has any right to make a living and still claim to be spiritual. Everything should be free. And if it isn't, YOU'RE certainly qualified to judge if the price is unfair, right? I'm so glad you're here to decide this and pass your judgements. Good job.

[Sloppyjoe]

Anyone who charges $100 bucks for a guide to ascension is a fake to me.

You're right. She should just get a job and stop teaching. No one has any right to make a living and still claim to be spiritual. Everything should be free. And if it isn't, YOU'RE certainly qualified to judge if the price is unfair, right? I'm so glad you're here to decide this and pass your judgements. Good job.

Be nice, just because I have an opposing opinion doesn't mean you can get all sarcastic on me ;)

I'm just saying, the guru's of this world spent their whole lives preaching spirituality and never made a cent off of it. When somebody starts charging for information it raises red flags. Sure, people have to make money to get by which in my opinion is justified through the profit of books and such but when you have someone looking to pay 100 bucks for salvation and to get to the next dimension then it gets a little quirky. I don't think the creator requires a fee for ascension..

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Anyone who charges $100 bucks for a guide to ascension is a fake to me.

You're right. She should just get a job and stop teaching. No one has any right to make a living and still claim to be spiritual. Everything should be free. And if it isn't, YOU'RE certainly qualified to judge if the price is unfair, right? I'm so glad you're here to decide this and pass your judgements. Good job.

Be nice, just because I have an opposing opinion doesn't mean you can get all sarcastic on me ;)

I'm just saying, the guru's of this world spent their whole lives preaching spirituality and never made a cent off of it. When somebody starts charging for information it raises red flags. Sure, people have to make money to get by which in my opinion is justified through the profit of books and such but when you have someone looking to pay 100 bucks for salvation and to get to the next dimension then it gets a little quirky. I don't think the creator requires a fee for ascension..

What do we value?

[DeDukshyn]

"Charges a fee for ascension" ... lol

It's simply a personal enlightenment course called "ascension101" ... oh my ... the assumptions we stand behind to make true that which we wish to be true for sake of our "beliefs" ... ;)

[WhiteFeather]

Inelia is an amazing and wonderful person. I got to know her a bit, and still get some emails from her. I am not online as much, but I used to catch her on skype,, she is always wonderful. People should not be so shocked to encounter amazing and wonderful beings. By now, I suppose that we ALL are amazing and wonderful beings. I never participated in the 'apotheosis' of Inelia. I don't believe that she would approve either!! She is a dear, and kind human. No matter where she (or I, or YOU, for that matter) comes from, she is human,, just like you and me.

I agree and well said Jake....IMO She's a wonderful entity with a kind warm spirit, I value her being here in such a time. As There are also many entity's like her here on this planet who are currently doing the same work as she. In Raising awareness and vibration.

[Chester]

Inelia is an amazing and wonderful person. I got to know her a bit, and still get some emails from her. I am not online as much, but I used to catch her on skype,, she is always wonderful. People should not be so shocked to encounter amazing and wonderful beings. By now, I suppose that we ALL are amazing and wonderful beings. I never participated in the 'apotheosis' of Inelia. I don't believe that she would approve either!! She is a dear, and kind human. No matter where she (or I, or YOU, for that matter) comes from, she is human,, just like you and me.

I agree and well said Jake....IMO She's a wonderful entity with a kind warm spirit, I value her being here in such a time. As There are also many entity's like her here on this planet who are currently doing the same work as she. In Raising awareness and vibration.

This thread helped me make a personal breakthrough. This thread appeared at the same time I was exploring the Tom Campbell presentation in Calgary in early 2011 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T1vYHOPFgcg

I soon then recalled the earlier video of his which I watched in June or July of 2012 where he suggested that the experience folks have when they have an NDE (and thus this could also apply to OBEs) is a "reality" experience co-derived by the consciousness's involvement within the rule set of the mechanics of the experiential realm.

So over the last several days while I pondered this thread, I came upon this point of view. What if Inelia's experience was (and is) very real for Inelia? What if Inelia's interpretation of her experience "solidifies" that experience into a denser reality for Inelia? What if those who hear about her experience through her interpretation of the experience such as in Bill's video interview, meeting her in the flesh and hearing about some of it, through reading any of her written words somehow then solidifies more and more her experiences into a collectively perceived reality? And that this is how "realities" are created... ie. through one or more consciousness streams (each one of us is a consciousness stream of sorts) sharing aspects of a view of an experience.

I am sure I lost most folks in the above chain of sentences, but try and read each one again slowly if you find yourself shaking your head a bit.

Tom Campbell suggests we create our reality experiences within the rule set of the realm. I take that a step further by suggesting that the rule set of the realm has some degree of fluidity just as our perception has this same fluidity. And thus up to some probable final limit, even the realm's rule set may be able to change along the way though perhaps not so much the realm we experience in the "waking state." The waking state is simply a shared realm which is quite dense and thus aspects of our experiences can be frozen to a greater degree than the "dream world." And thus the realm we experience in the deep sleep state may also be less dense than the dream world when considering that there might be a pattern to this all.

I just reviewed the three "levels" to our currently known human experience... the waking state, the dream state and the deep sleep state.

Now for some points -

I discovered that just about everyone who weighed in on this thread had an opinion as to Inelia's veracity or not. The question then came to me, "do I trust Inelia or not?" My answer was 100% with zero hesitation, "Yes." At this now moment, based on all the exposure I have had to Inelia which is primarily through Bill's interview and some brief exploration of her website and then the video of a prayer she conducted awhile back, the "Spirit Being" I experienced had nothing but loving intentions. She may very well support her physical body experience through sales of materials through her website and through other means related to her sharing of her experience as she interprets it. To me, there is zero wrong with anyone who does that as we all have to make our way in this world. So, how I see Inelia is based only upon my perception of her core intention, the foundational intention of what drives her as we experience her in our shared realm of the waking state.

I do not care if how she interprets it differs from my own experiences of the media through which I enjoy my own experience. Why? Because I have found how I co-create the media to some extent in my waking state and thus, this suggests to me that a less dense realm, the dreaming state, could be even more fluid for each individual stream of consciousness.

How I was able to come upon this theory (which is new to me though may not be officially "new') came forth when I considered the experience of the astral as expressed by folks I met through this forum. Specifically Sebastian, NancyV, Finefeather and wynderer.

Sebastian and NancyV's experiences seemed to very much be the same. Finefeather's experiences seem to have a much greater degree of complexity to them than what has been shared to my by Sebastian and NancyV, but yet may still be of the same general nature. Wynderer's experiences seemed much, much different. Yet the impression I got is that in each and every case, each one's interpretations of their astral realm experiences were very, very real to each of them.

From this I conclude that though this realm is not as dense as our shared, waking state, there is still some elements about the realm that appear to be held in common. From looking at this through new eyes, I am forming the opinion that there is no single, right interpretation of these less dense realms (and even to a smaller extent our shared waking state perceived reality).

I now conclude Inelia's interpretation to be valid from the point of view of her sincerity as to her interpretation of what she has experienced. I equally agree to the validity of the astral realm that Finefeather has immense experience in exploring. Same as to Sebastian's and NancyV's experiences.

Yes, this post became a wee bit monstrous but if you have made it to here, then you can handle my next statements.

What determines, for me, if I trust or not another human being depends first and foremost on the degree to which I perceive them as genuine. Coupled with that is the degree to which I perceive that person through application of the knowledge they have gained through their life experiences performs with regards to relationship with others and all that is (all within our shared, waking state reality).

I boil it down to do I perceive the person to be for positive, right relationship with all and the all that is or do they draw lines. Do they come across as possessing a consistent kosmic consciousness point of view or do they demonstrate some degree of centricity of their viewpoints more often than I am comfortable with? It is the ones that fall within the former group I trust, regardless of how they interpret their experience.

My suggestion to Finefeather would be to consider the possibility that perhaps Inelia's interpretation of the realms not of the waking state reality may be just as valid (and thus "real" at least to her) equally as to your own even though through the media of words you both use to describe your experiences that are explored from within this collectively shared waking state realm may appear to point to differences... neither of you being "right, right" both of you being individually "right" (genuine) and in actual reality, none of us may be collectively "right."

Keep in mind how the border between "dreamland" and the waking state experience is not a solidly impenetrable line.

Enjoy the Day, justone

[greybeard]

Without taking away from anyone---quite the reverse.
"Put no head above your own"--- So said the Buddha.

Chris

[Chester]

Without taking away from anyone---quite the reverse.
"Put no head above your own"--- So said the Buddha.

Chris

Thank goodness for everyone no one quotes me... haha, Love Chester

[greybeard]

In a way Chester I am agreeing with you.

As a trained observer, both as a therapist and an ex-driving instructor it was essential that I got my opinion out of there and viewed things without the filter of ego as much as possible, it amazed, me at times, to see people take up points of view with no verifiable fact (sometimes there is nothing that can be verified that's true)
I could not afford to let emotion get into teaching people to drive, as If I got angry at another driver cutting in then I became dangerous -- no longer clear headed-- not fully present.

Sometimes the point of view is justified with---It resonates with me--- What then an opposing point of view that resonates deeply with the other?
That's an emotion.
Most of our thinking is coloured by emotion--- feel good or feel not so good about!!!

Police officers will tell you that eye witnesses to a traffic accident can have completely different and conflicting stories.

Spiritual practise and the end result is even less defined.
For myself I prefer the traditional well trod path of enlightenment.
That's a preference not an opinion.
Inelia's path may well be valid for her, that does not make any other way valid or invalid.

Chester said as much.

Chris

[Selene]

I'm just saying, the guru's of this world spent their whole lives preaching spirituality and never made a cent off of it.

True, but these exist under a different culture and system: in India and Asia a teacher’s food, accommodations, medical and other physical needs are provided voluntarily by the community they serve. In exchange for their service, they are given some ‘financial’ security.

Things don’t work that way in our modern Western culture: no matter who you are, you are expected to pay for your own rent, your food, your electricity, etc. We don’t have monasteries for the spiritual; we don’t even subsidize artists or poets, do we?

Get over it, Joe. If you’re not providing food and shelter for a spiritual teacher out of charity, don’t complain because they must do it for themselves.

Just my view.

Regards,

Selene

[Chester]

In a way Chester I am agreeing with you.

As a trained observer, both as a therapist and an ex-driving instructor it was essential that I got my opinion out of there and viewed things without the filter of ego as much as possible, it amazed, me at times, to see people take up points of view with no verifiable fact (sometimes there is nothing that can be verified that's true)
I could not afford to let emotion get into teaching people to drive, as If I got angry at another driver cutting in then I became dangerous -- no longer clear headed-- not fully present.

Sometimes the point of view is justified with---It resonates with me--- What then an opposing point of view that resonates deeply with the other?
That's an emotion.
Most of our thinking is coloured by emotion--- feel good or feel not so good about!!!

Police officers will tell you that eye witnesses to a traffic accident can have completely different and conflicting stories.

Spiritual practise and the end result is even less defined.
For myself I prefer the traditional well trod path of enlightenment.
That's a preference not an opinion.
Inelia's path may well be valid for her, that does not make any other way valid or invalid.

Chester said as much.

Chris

Far better said - my commentary was a coffee driven diatribe - thank goodness I didn't completely destroy my point. Anyways, Yes, Chris... I am finding that the less and less emotion is involved, the better.

And yes, Selene - you made a great point. Thanks

[Daughter of Time]

Well, I don't mean to flog a dead horse since already so much has been said on this issue.

First of all, thanks for the laughs on previous pages. You lifted my spirits!

Now, the video was totally piss-offing! That woman whose name I forgot who is supposed to be masquerading as Inelia Benz, well, that is beyond ridiculous! Not only is there no physical resemblance to speak of as the facial features are rather different, but the authenticity of the Chilenan accent would be hard to fake by the most talented actors in the industry, and that is what was most noticeable to me.

There are some incredibly talented actors out there who can convince you they are the character they are playing, but very few of those actors can actually create an authentic accent. The most brilliant one, in my opinion, is Merryl Streep, and even she hits the mark only about 90% of the time! In "The Bridges of Madison County" she did an impressive job, but her accent was not quite Italian. In "The House of Spirits" both Streep and Jeremy Irons who are both consummate professionals always giving their all to their work, did a pathetic job with their Spanish accents. Streep herself admitted that while shooting "Dancing at Lughnasad" the director kept reprimanding her because her accent was not authentic. Why am I saying all this? Because if the most talented actors in the Western World fail to produce authentic accents, then how could a mediocre actress who is not successful enough to do legitimate acting so that she has to degrade herself to the point of lending her image and abilities to produduce deceit and corruption, be so talented as to produce an authentic Chilean accent? Perhaps she does not see it as degrading herself. Perhaps she sees it as perfecting her craft while waiting for the big break to come along. I don't know. I just know that she is not Inelia Benz! Inelia Benz is Inelia Benz!

And Royal Wizard, I am not upset at you for posting that video. I understand why you did it. Sometimes, as the old adage goes "bull**** baffles brains!"

My 2 cents.

[wisehealing]

i've met Inelia in 2013, and been very fortunate to experience her teaching in person over the course of an ascension retreat where she was the primary presenter.

How can i stress how there is no doubt in my being that she absolutely is who she claims she is. i'm positive that all her statements about her origins, mission and abilities are w/o a question completely accurate and true – i would stake my soul on it.

At first i was very shy to even come up to her and say hi, but then we did a welcome circle of all those present, and i had the experience of my life holding her hand in the circle. As i'm writing this, it comes to mind that i also once shook hands w the 16th Karmapa (this was improper i know since you must only bow to his holiness, but i got carried away). And i also know that it's wrong to make these type of comparisons – but the Karmapa connection doesn't even compare.

She is an alien w/o a doubt (a beautiful transcendent being of light) who seems like she phases in and out of her quite frail physical form. Then she IS Source really – as we are too – but in utmost purity and full magnitude. The way our Source essence compares w her full on core beingness made me aware of how that Source essence has become so muddied in us – in fact this "muddiness" i would even equate to "humaness."

i see energy sometimes – mostly around people's heads – sometimes i get flashes of their soul star chakras. Once at the retreat i caught my perception of Inelia on that level while she was just walking around in the room – what i got as a fleeting snapshot was that there was a basketball sized "orb" over her head composed of many individual points of light. i take this to be HER soul star – Source itself. And i could make the extrapolation that what is "soul" for us might be "Source" for her – it's in the same place as the soul star chakra is for us but which for us is tiny. And also i see a possible connection of this perception to the depiction of the orbs over ancient Egyptian neter's heads – i wonder if that was the same phenomenon they were depicting. And if so, it begs the question: could these images of the neters have been representations of actual living beings?

Then during the final Q&A on the last day of the retreat, while i was asking her a question involving a lot of my usual personality dramatics, i suddenly discovered myself hugely shifted (approaching Oneness) and this lasted for about 8 hours. People spontaneously laughed, as the sudden shifting in me was very apparent to them – my typical intent to actually make a point instead of asking a direct question suddenly vanished although my train of thought remained quite intact. My experience on some metaphoric level while i was asking her the question was that i "saw" a counter-rotating energy field around Inelia and after the shift, this same field was suddenly around me – metaphorically it was like Source said: "Hey, no baby, this one is YOURS!"

During a later Q&A i queried her about how she explained this shift i experienced – she said it was just that i regarded her as someone to look up to. Well i agree it wasn't her doing this (although i wonder about this rush of energy from Source "through her" that she speaks about). It really is an illusion to feel it is other than us who accomplish this type of "effect." i have a conceptualization of it – Inelia, just by being who she is, doesn't energetically engage w someone playing out their patterns (everyone engages normally, even if you see a very obvious neurotic pattern being played out by someone else and try to ignore it, because you are human, you can't help energetically engage) – so because the projection doesn't stick like it normally always does, suddenly it gets totally thrust back to you (or it becomes almost impossible for you to hide the fact that this projected quality was yours all along) – and it becomes a huge opportunity for coming into Oneness because it is the other half of you really being offered back to you. It's a feeling metaphorically like intending to take a step down a staircase, missing your expected footing – and finding yourself flying in the air ("i didn't know i could do THAT"). Too bad we eventually always wind up hitting the ground !

She has spoken about this phenomenon herself. i assume some people have asked to spend time w her (of periods of weeks i assume) for the specific purpose of coming into Oneness themselves. But what invariably happens she says is that they lose their ego functions to the degree that they need to be cared for by others. She says she has needed to stop engaging w people for this purpose because she has no support structure to look after them. It is interesting that this doesn't seem to happen w her husband or children – but then the nature of the relationship is quite different (and she has accepted those roles and probably thus energetically maintains them) and also her family is not seeking the Oneness shift specifically.

i am fascinated by what these phenomena say about the nature of who we are and how we maintain our reality so seamlessly – by having predictable energetic relationships w those around us – and then when we meet someone who does not absorb those projections which maintain our reality sphere, our world and less than sovereign personality structure can collapse so dramatically.

i consider some of Inelia's core teachings incredibly unique and valuable among all the ascension and other alternative information out there – providing essential insights in order to get a position-free grasp on who we are – because it can only be grasped – and conveyed intellectually – from someone who has her unrestricted and limitless viewpoint on our reality (her 'manifesto piece' "The Terms of Engagement" is one example).

On the path to enlightenment/(awakening/ascension) i realize we must "Kill the Buddha if you see him on the road" (never place another person on a pedestal as someone representing what you seek since then you are in much danger of never finding it w/in) but Inelia Benz will definitely be that final teacher/Avatar/Source-incarnate i will bid fond farewell to on the ascension road.... . . . . when the time comes.

[Rich]

I've seen spiritual teachers that charge quite a lot, not worth it for me but that doesn't make them fake.
Last Satsang I was at 40€ for 4 hours and there were about 30 people there. But he was real, let me tell you, you could feel the wave of energy
when he walked passed you or just being near him.
Spiritual teachers can be rich too, Lester Levenson had millions!

[Cristobal]

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[CrimSynn]

Well to start there are no doubt some very interesting parts. As to who and how many are fake.... will we really ever know? The big question is simply this- If some major events are fake and put out to monipulate us where and when does it stop? I really have no idea who Inelia Benz is... and do not really care. The biggest point is if a major event in the media is fake and we as a people who fight for our freedoms are in truth simply being lied to and manipulated, what else is going on? As a Vet it saddens me to see things like this. People in power playing with the masses...just cause they can. I know there is no way to stop or prevent this and i support anyone who, even if they are off on some facts, strive to bring things like this to the public. We need to look at all things now and really wonder is it true? A shame we feel the need to decieve each other on such a scale. I truly hope we evolve beyond this.